June 13, 2024 • 35 mins
This botanical liquor can be made with many things, but often brings flavors like caraway or dill seed to the party. Anney and Lauren dip into the science and history of aquavit.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to SAVI, your production of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Res.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Laurened bogl Bam, and today we have an
episode for you about aquavite.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, uh as always drink responsibly.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Uh? I really enjoy aquavit and I had been like
vaguely intending to do an episode on it for a
long time because, oh, way back in like the early
like the late twenty ops, early twenty teens, a dear
friend of mine, Darryl, who was a bartender around town,
(00:49):
introduced me to He was like, hey, want to try
this kind of weird Nordic thing. It tastes like peck
and rye bread. And I was like, I would love
to try that. And it did and I was fascinated.
And ever since then, I've been, you know, just curious.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
About what's up with that.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So yeah, it was sort of in the back of
my mind on a list.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And here we are, here we are. I feel like,
if we still have the Bingo card, you could mark
a space. I'm not sure that I have. Eat, I'm
sure I probably have.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's relatively rare honestly. So it's it's very rarely available
at all in the US, sometimes at bars or on
cocktail menus.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
But yeah, well, new mission, new mission for me. Yeah,
I will say I was lamenting to Lauren before we
started this one. This one was a bit of a
beast to wrangle for me, just because there's a lot
of different names in terminology that get thrown around, and
(01:56):
they don't often refer to exactly the same thing, but
it's partially the same thing maybe, So that was a
bit tricky. And then we're gonna we're gonna talk about this,
but there's just a lot of different varieties of it.
So it was a bit of a slog.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, and as always, we're kind of limited by what
we can find English language sources on or what we
can find reliable translations for and yeah and what yes,
what results Google gives us, because that's a fun thing
right now. Anyway, Yeah, well, different broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But yes, well that being said, listeners, if you have
any thoughts throughout this, any recommendations, oh yeah, I'm I'm
on the lookout now, any resources, please let us know,
because yeah, it was a it was kind of a
tricky one. You can see our past episodes on distilling
(02:59):
and just alcohol in general.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sure, and definitely gin for more on that process.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Which again we have a whole video of Lauren and
I making gin. We do.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, that was a fun day.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
That was a fun day. That was a really fun day.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And they just kind of, oh, oh sure, Well, I'm
always a little bit nervous in interviews.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But yes, but yeah, they definitely were like, would you
like to bottle some gin? And I said yes, but
I was panicking. But it was great. It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
It was I mean, I just kind of like inserted
us into the production line and I was like, well,
I guess we're just here for the foreseeable future. I
do not know how to stop now that I know
how to do it, and I'm not going to tell
them that I'm not going to do this anymore, so you.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Kind of get lost in the process almost.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah. Yeah, this was an old fourth Board Distillery, which
is a local Atlanta distillery and delightful human people.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, yes, and the video is really jenare I say fun? Yeah,
And we had a lot of great people that we
work with who got to take time out of what
they normally did and help us out with that video,
So that was kind of fun. But okay, I guess
this brings us to our question. Sure, yeah, aquavite.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What is it? Well? Aquafit is a type of distilled
neutral liquor flavored with botanicals. Carraway and dill seeds are
perhaps the most common, giving the drink like warm, herbal, savory,
bitter sort of profile with a little bit of like
boozy sweetness, but any number of other botanicals can be added.
(04:46):
The liquor might be bottled immediately or aged in a
stainless steel to remain clear in color and more herb forward,
or aged in different kinds of barrels, either new or reused.
Fortified wine barrels are common in order to impart like smooth, buttery,
vanilla and or whiny kind of flavors. It's traditionally served
(05:08):
chilled in small glasses to sip, either with or maybe
after a meal. The flavors can vary pretty widely, but
the traditional like hairway dill types taste like a like
a spice seeded bread like a Jewish rye or a
black bread, though it can be either cleaner or toastier
depending on that aging process. It's like drinking a spice cabinet.
(05:32):
It's like it's like looking out on a snowy sunset
from behind paned glass, just wrapped up in like a
good cozy sweater.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, yeah, like really cold outside kind of bracing, but
you're warm at the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
To make equavy, you start by distilling alcohol fermented from
some kind of starch, like potatoes or a grain. This
distill it is meant to be neutral in flavor, like
like vodka, so that you can build botanical flavors in
usually by redistilling the liquor was sort of like a
giant tea satchel of herbs or spices or fruit or
flowers or what have you. You might do this separately
(06:19):
and blend the resulting flavored liquors, or you might do
them all together, or you might like steep things in
sitting liquor and then strain it. This is totally how
gin works, all right. However, engine your primary flavoring is juniper,
which is piny in aquavite. Your primaries are usually dill
and or caraway seeds. We haven't done an episode on caraway. Well,
(06:43):
we'll have to do that in the future. It's the
seed of an herb in Appyassia, the carrot family, and
it tastes like warm and bitter and earthy, sort of
like the skin of a carrot. I know that that's
a part that we often discard these days, but if
you've ever had that just real bitter bite on the
outside of a ca, it's sort of like that. It
also has a little bit of like like anis or
(07:04):
licorice flavor. We have done an episode on dill. You're
probably more familiar with the herb. The seeds are kind
of similar to caraway, like warm and bitter, but they've
got a sort of lemony twist and a little bit
of camphor like like parsley, like a strong parsley. This
is also in the carrot family. By the way, caraway
seed is commonly used in savory dishes like sauer kraut
(07:28):
or like Easternish European bee for pork preparations or goulash
or breads. They are the seeds in seeded rye bread,
for example. So if any of those dishes are your
main familiarity with, caraway, aquavied is probably going to remind
you deeply of those makes sense. I've seen all kinds
(07:49):
of ingredients being put into aquavied, though many with sort
of like riffs on those primary flavors, so like thyme, fennel, coriander, apple, citrus, peel, vanilla, cinnamon, rosemary,
annis rye, juniper, peppercorn, marigold, allspice. As a it's a
(08:10):
kind of broader category of botanical liquors, though I've also
seen riffs with like coconut or rose hip, rhubarb, raspberry, mulberry,
white truffle.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't know, I'm trying to envision this. I love it,
but I need to I need to I need to
sample some things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, I want to try
all of these. But then also you've got the aging
process right, or the lack thereof so right. You can
bottle aquavied right off the still, or age it to
let the flavors develop on their own in stainless steel
or cask, mature it the way that you would say
(08:57):
a whiskey, and that wood is going to add flavors
like kind of butter or caramel or vanilla or dried fruit.
And yeah, sometimes barrels that have already done had something
in it like sherry or whiskey or madeira are used,
and so you'll get some flavors from those in there too.
The traditional styles do all use caraway and or dill,
(09:20):
but they are separated into Norwegian styles which are barrel aged,
Danish styles which are not, Swedish styles which are not
and which also include fennel, and Icelandic styles which are
not an only include caraway. I'm pretty sure that's the breakdown,
(09:43):
I think, listeners, let us know. Oh my goodness, Okay.
The Icelandic ones are sometimes called the Black Death in
apparently a nod to their historical precautionary labeling.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Aquavied is modernly made in lots of places and with
lots of different local flare. It is traditionally served on
its own, often chilled as a sort of sipper. It
does pair well with foods like fatty fish, and I
understand it's a traditional celebratory drink and a lot of
places where it's from, sometimes as a shooter at Christmas
or Easter or midsummer or midwinter, or like a wedding,
(10:26):
sometimes alongside a beer. I think it's considered a little
bit old fashioned, like sort of like a grandpa drink
in many segments of these cultures again right in and yeah,
it can also be used in all sorts of cocktails.
The clear types can sub in for like a gin
or a vodka, the brown types for a rum or
maybe a whisky like a rye whiskey.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I saw recipe for a lingenberry aquavied flip that I
really want to try, and I've read that the caraway
actually blends really well with like fruity tropical flavors like
pineapple or coconut. I definitely want to try it in
a bloody mary, which is another thing that I saw,
or like a darkened stormy guess, just like, hey, can
(11:11):
we make this drink? I already like weirder. Could it
be a little bit weary?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Add some more nuanced flavors? I love that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well what about the nutrition drink responsibly? Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
M m, Well, this is a popular drink, and we've
got some numbers to back that up.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
We do, so, Okay. There's this Nordic liquor group, a
sort of supergroup called a Nora that produces about five
million liters of aquavied per year out of a total
of like twenty million liters of alcohol overall. Of that
five million, one point three million stays in Norway and Sweden,
with much of the rest going to Denmark, Germany, and
(12:02):
the United States. However, consumption was actually on a decline
as of twenty twenty two. This International Beverage Industry market
researcher called IWSR said that's been declining gradually in popularity
since nineteen ninety, which was the first year that they
started tracking Aquavied. They say that that's due to an
(12:23):
aging consumer base, but they also say that the premium
category of aquavite is gaining in market share, and the
hope is that this will help attract new fans. This
isn't quite a number, but y'all, there is a farmer
company out of New York City that's called Aquavied, and
that really borked my Google searches. Wanted to put that
(12:47):
in here, thanks, but no thanks. However, they do work
a lot with bochulinum toxin, among other things, which is
actually pretty cool. Yeah, I really enjoy bochulinum toxin. Really
fun one.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Oh, dear.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Jear, need to hear about the fun parts of botulism.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I've got you.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Wow, we're ostensibly party. Oh heck, we're ostensibly a food show. Okay, okay.
The Historical Museum of Wine and Spirits in Stockholm lists
over two hundred drinking songs that are devoted to aquavied
(13:33):
This this is partially due to the fact that there's
an annual aquavit songwriting competition.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh that's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, if you know anything about that one definitely right
in Okay. There is an annual Norwegian aquet festival in Yovic, Norway,
in late September that has about thirty thousand attendees every year.
The festival charters a dedicated from Oslo Central Station. I
understand that popular participating restaurants get booked out like months
(14:06):
in advance. According to the website quote, the festival is
also suitable for those who shockingly should not like aquavit.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Interesting, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It means that they've got something for everyone. You know,
there's other food and beverages involved. It sounds like a
really great, like educational food and drink festival.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Oh, I see, I took it as an insult that
all right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I mean I think that there's a little bit of
an insult involved there, Like if you shockingly do not
like it, well we can serve you anyway. H There
is also an Aquavit Week here in the United States
in late June, which we are shockingly on time about.
(14:56):
I hope it's happening again this year because if not,
then we're shocking not in time for it. But yeah,
it started up in twenty twelve. There are events in Brooklyn, DC, Seattle,
and Portland, which is where the concept started to write.
Hold this kind of like informational celebration of aquavieit here
in the States. As of twenty twenty three, there were
(15:18):
twenty bars and restaurants across those cities participating, and the
event staff keeps a running list of aquavits that are
available here in the US, and right now they have
eighty one listed, made both in the Nordic countries and
around the US.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Ooh okay, I again, listeners, I'm really hoping you're right
in about this because that sounds pretty cool too.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, right right, yes, Well.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The history is quite interesting for this one.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, yeah, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break.
For a word from our sponsors, air.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and again see
our episodes on distillation alcohol specifically jin. Perhaps there is
a long history of distillation in Europe and of flavoring
alcohol with herbs and spices, and aquaviyt is a part
of this history and it built off things that came
(16:28):
before it. While a similar spirit to aquavite had existed
in Europe and elsewhere prior, for those in Scandinavia, it
often required imported wine and was therefore expensive, so people
weren't really drinking it. That changed when Swedish soldiers learned
had a distill alcohol from grain. Spiced wine had a
(16:52):
long tradition in Europe, meaning that Scandinavians added locally grown
ingredients like dill and caraway locally grown at that time,
and these ingredients might have massed the potentially strong taste
of the alcohol. I read that in some places. I
don't know, but several small distilleries popped up in Nordic
(17:13):
farms to distill aquavite and other alcohols after they discovered
this process. Since at least the fifteenth century, records indicate
that aquavite was popular in Scandinavia and was often viewed
as medicinal. It was used to treat a whole host
of things, including the black plague, which is funny going
(17:33):
back to that Icelandic aquavite at its name.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, there is another theory that it's nicknamed the Black
Death in Iceland because of that connection to.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
The Black plague.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I read at least two or three different origin stories
for that for that nickname. But okay, Yeah, the word
aquavite is in fact based on the Latin term for
water of life, life, indicating that yes, it was thought
to be healthful. Whiskey is based on the same term. Yeah, yes,
(18:08):
And according to the Scandinavian standard, German traders introduced aquavi
to Scandinavia in the fourteen hundreds, where it was first
used medicinally but was soon embraced as a drink. And
it may have been used to light their gunpowder. I
(18:28):
don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I I did it either or because it said just
gunpowder and then I was like, let me look into this,
and it was like light their gunpowder, Like okay, I guess.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I don't know. I sometimes things that you read in
some of these stories, especially right, like it's kind of
like it was this based on a game of telephone
and what did you originally mean? And how anyway? I
suspect that what they meant about the German traders is
that Germans introduced either distilled alcohol or distilling techniques in
(19:05):
the fourteen hundreds. That was around when distillation was really
taking off around mainland Europe. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Well. That same article alleged that many in Denmark started
distilling products like aquavit in their homes to avoid taxes,
and it did crack me up. How many times I
ran into taxes or other laws while researching this, which
is true for a lot of alcohol share stories that
we do.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
The first known written instance of Nordic aquavit is from
a fifteen thirty one letter from Dutch lord Eskia Bila
to the Norwegian bishop Olaf Ingelbrick's son Oo, I hope
I got that somewhat close, and Bilia sent some aquavit
to the Norwegian bishop, which he promise could cure just
(20:01):
about anything. That's a nice promise. Potatoes, another component key
to modern Norwegian aquabits, likely arrived in the country in
the seventeen fifties when priests military folks returned after traveling
across Europe, and during their travels they encountered the delicious
(20:22):
and nutritious potato, and they brought it back and they
planted it. I think we talked about this in our
French Fi episode. There was a whole campaign about it,
about eating potatoes. Soon people started experimenting with the potato
when they were distilling. It particularly took off after passing
the passing of a Norwegian law prohibiting the production of
(20:44):
liquors other than grain based variants. So everybody was like,
let's try this potato. Yeah, sure, yeah, okay. A popularly
reported story about aquavit goes that in eighteen oh five,
a trading manager named Henrique Menke his ship was chartered
(21:04):
to travel from Norway to what is now Indonesia, carrying
a wide range of things like ham, cheese, fish, and aquavit.
The journey was a long one, and the captain was
not happy to learn that aquavite was not well received
in the hot and humid weather of their destination. So
the oak barrels filled with aquavit stayed on the ship
(21:26):
until it sets cell once again, and for two years
the aquavite sat in these barrels in the sun in salt,
rocked by the waves. When they finally returned to their
port of origin. Everyone assumed the alcohol would be off,
would need to be thrown away. However, to their surprise,
not only had the aquavite survived the journey, it seemed
(21:48):
to have gotten even better in taste, and so everyone
was like, we're onto something here. Skipping ahead a few
decades to the eighteen thirties, Norway's shipping route access had expanded,
and as part of this, Norwegian ships regularly transported dried
cod to South America, carrying aquavied with them as they
(22:11):
did to recreate the taste of aging while traveling over
the Equator and back. So they were trying to let's
just put this aquavied on ships. Yeah, yeah, we can
get this again.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There there are companies that to this day, Norwegian companies
that will yeah, send their barrels out on ships to
go back over the equator yep, to control this aging process. Okay,
I read that aquafit's production in Norway peaked in the
eighteen thirties with eleven thousand small farm distilleries registered, And
(22:49):
the source that I got this from so that the
population at that time was only about nine hundred thousand,
so there was like slightly more than one distillery for
every hundred people. To be fair, I've also read that
there were only nine thousand distilleries or only two thousand,
five hundred. However, I would say that any of those
numbers would still be impressive.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, Scandinavian immigrants brought AquaFed with them to the United
States in the years leading up to World War One.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, and in the early nineteen hundreds there was a
lot of writing in the US about European immigrants bringing
their preferred liquors from their home countries and the need
for bartenders to keep themselves informed about those ingredients. Of note,
a lot of those writings came with an air of
anti immigrant bias, like calling the ingredients strange or railing
(23:46):
about their general existence in the US. According to a
vine Pair article citing a nineteen oh seven article from
Oregon's The Morning Historian, one of the writers lamented about
one such outcome. Hall quote next to Santa Cruz drum
is about the strongest liquor made, and the alcohol in
reference is believed to be aquavit, And it was not
(24:12):
said in.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
A positive Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting, because when you're
talking about strength, I'm like, are you talking about strength
of flavor or actual alcohol content, because most alcohol content
really it's really within a certain window.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
That's true. That's true. You can read the whole article,
and he sounded like a grumpy He just wasn't into
any type of change from what he was used to. Now,
that's what it felt like to Yeah, you know, well,
at this time, the aquavit this American writer encountered was
(24:55):
most likely a product distilled in Norway from Norwegian potatoes
and ported American corn and Russian wheat, and the bottles
cost about twenty five dollars into day's money. This article
was written in twenty sixteen, so twenty sixteen money roughly
the same as Irish or Scotch whiskey at the time. However,
by the time bottles of aquavit had made it to
(25:18):
the US, they'd usually undergone quite a boat journey before
ever arriving in America. People's tunes in America started to
change when it, along with all other alcohol, was banned
during Prohibition in the US, and some wrote about its
medicinal benefits, which I lent to believe was so they
(25:39):
could still drink it or still use it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, there was a lot of that during prohibition, So
that doesn't that wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, that's what it sounded like. In more recent times,
American bartenders have been experimenting with aquavit as a cocktail ingredient,
which is a controversial endeavor according to some people who
think you should just drink it straight.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I right, Yes, I have heard that the appropriate
traditional way to drink it is just sip it on it.
But yeah, I have also heard a lot of people
say that they really dislike it and that it shouldn't
be used for anything.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So that's a fair point. That's a fair point.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
People people have opinions.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
A thing that helped open up the market for aquavite
happened in two thousand and five in Norway. Though previously
to then there was only one company legally permitted to
produce liquor in Norway. Prior to nineteen ninety six, it
was government run, but in two thousand and five the
government ended that monopoly and lots more distilleries opened up right,
(26:52):
giving room for a lot more riffs on the concept.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Due to some issues though importing aquavite into the United States,
the founder of House Spirits and Westward whiskey. Christian Krogstad
distilled his own aquavit in twenty and six.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, there are now dozens of varieties distilled by different
companies around the US. Also, all right, the thing that
I said earlier about how the market for aquabed has
been in a decline since the nineteen nineties is true
except for one exception. There was a spike in aquavied
popularity during the pandemic shutdowns of like twenty twenty to
(27:31):
twenty twenty one, perhaps for nostalgia reasons. It's a thing
that people remember drinking in family gatherings and they wanted
that memory. Norway's Aquavit received a European Union geographical indication
in twenty twenty I think Sweden's Aquavied had already had one,
(27:53):
and then a corporate merger in twenty twenty one among
Nordic liquor companies into that aforementioned supergroup called a Nora
might wind up having a positive influence on the international
spread of these local liquors like aquavit, you know, like
more more platform, more money might get them out there
(28:15):
a little bit more. And in fact, that piece of
information is from a twenty twenty two article in Drinks
International that called aquavit quote the new mescal question mark.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Oh my goodness. We run into this all the time
all the time. As you said, always the cupcake.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it's always the cupcake for trendy desserts. But the
new mescal. Yeah, something's going to replace mescal eventually.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, I definitely want to seek it out, and I
really hope listeners who have more experience right about this, yeah,
because it was very regional in a way that was
hard to track in some cases. And I love the
traditions I read about it. There were so many articles
about the toasting tradition of it and things like that.
(29:16):
So I would love to hear if you have any
traditions around it.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yes, oh yes, we do already have some listening mail
for you though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They were back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with your snow. Yes. If any listeners can
write in about the cheers.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, I understand it requires for my contact.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh no, apologies, ur, Yes, I understand it requires that,
and maybe like a double tap oh okay, on the table.
But again, listeners were counting on you. We are so
please please let us know. But in the meantime we
have heard from listeners who let us know about other things.
(30:17):
Amy wrote, I loved listening to your episode about Thousand
Island dressing. I grew up in the Thousand Islands area
and am from Norristown, New York. However, I never knew
the story of Thousand Island dressing. I found this very interesting.
I have been to Boltcastle twice, first for a third
grade class trip around nineteen ninety two, well before it
(30:39):
was renovated, and then at about twenty sixteen when we
went on a family vacation. The renovations are gorgeous, and
I highly recommend taking a tour as well as a
tour of the Thousand Islands with Uncle Sam boat tours.
The story you told about George Bolt building the house
for his wife, then abandoning it when she died is
the story I grew up knowing as well. It is
(31:02):
great now that the house has been finished. Ooh okay, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Love these tour recommendations. And again, like I cannot stress
hard enough how gorgeous the area looked when I was
reading all about it. Yeah, yes, I really want to
go to there.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I do as well. I do as well. I think
it'd be really fun just to hear people's opinions about
the history of this, the history of the dressing, but
also a castle. That's great, right it had a lot
of war behind it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, oh heck. Kristen wrote, I know this is
slightly delayed, but I've been meaning to write in about
the Macaroons episode. I was so excited when it popped
up in my feed At the moment my own pantry
was stuffed full of matza and macaroons. I always appreciate
your forays into Ashkenazi classics like this, which are so
(31:58):
deeply nostalgic for those of us who grew up with them.
If you know, you know, and if you don't, then
I really hope that learning about them through your podcast
could inspire people to give them a try the next
time they see and cap displays full of holiday foods
at the grocery store. I think Sayer listeners can agree
that foods are such a beautiful and approachable way to
learn about other cultures. I was so relieved when Lauren
(32:19):
had the same reaction I did to the New Manishchevit's
Macaroon packaging, abandoning the classic canisters for plastic pouches. I
almost couldn't find them at the store because the packaging
was so unfamiliar. I was not thrilled about the new look,
but I bought them.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
When I opened the bag to put the macaroons on
a platter for a sator dessert spread, I was disappointed
to find them all squished and flattened inside the bag
instead of the perfect little ridged domes of nostalgic familiarity. Sad. Anyways,
I was really surprised to learn in the episode that
macaroons and macarons do share an overlapping history after all.
(32:55):
That makes the similar names make more sense. Thanks for
teaching me something new as a old ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that canister thing really really got to be on a
deep and emotional level.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And I'm sorry that you also went through this.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
It can be jarring, it can.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Be yeah, container pun intended, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Know, it's like, is this fun? I think it is
now it is? Yeah, And I feel like a lot
of companies we've run across lately are updating there. Yeah,
they're packaging and people are upset. So it's interesting. I
(33:46):
guess this must be some kind of push of you know,
updating or.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, modernization, all those kind of things. I was really
hoping that the that the pouch packaging was going to
provide an equal Karn experience. It is sad that they
were squished. I hope they were still tasty. Yeah, yeah,
and right, no, I mean that is exactly the point
(34:11):
of this entire show, of just trying to trying to
talk about different stuff and where it's from and the
people who made it, and because it is beautiful and
right and like, as we say, I think about every episode,
there's so many things that we're not familiar with that
we get such a kick out of learning about and
want to go try.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yes, yeah, And that's one of the great parts of
hearing from your listeners. Yes, hearing whether you are on
the same like oh I didn't know about this, or
whether you were like, actually I know a lot about this.
Let me tell you about my history growing up with it.
It's great, It's all good. So thank you as always
(34:52):
for taking the time to write in. Thanks to these
listeners for writing in. If you would like to write
to us, you can our email is Hello at saverpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
We are also on social media. Sometimes you can find
us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at saver pod and
we do hope to hear from you. Saver is production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
(35:23):
are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to SAVI, your production of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Res.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Laurened bogl Bam, and today we have an
episode for you about aquavite.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, uh as always drink responsibly.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Oh yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Uh? I really enjoy aquavit and I had been like
vaguely intending to do an episode on it for a
long time because, oh, way back in like the early
like the late twenty ops, early twenty teens, a dear
friend of mine, Darryl, who was a bartender around town,
(00:49):
introduced me to He was like, hey, want to try
this kind of weird Nordic thing. It tastes like peck
and rye bread. And I was like, I would love
to try that. And it did and I was fascinated.
And ever since then, I've been, you know, just curious.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
About what's up with that.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
So yeah, it was sort of in the back of
my mind on a list.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And here we are, here we are. I feel like,
if we still have the Bingo card, you could mark
a space. I'm not sure that I have. Eat, I'm
sure I probably have.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's relatively rare honestly. So it's it's very rarely available
at all in the US, sometimes at bars or on
cocktail menus.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
But yeah, well, new mission, new mission for me. Yeah,
I will say I was lamenting to Lauren before we
started this one. This one was a bit of a
beast to wrangle for me, just because there's a lot
of different names in terminology that get thrown around, and
(01:56):
they don't often refer to exactly the same thing, but
it's partially the same thing maybe, So that was a
bit tricky. And then we're gonna we're gonna talk about this,
but there's just a lot of different varieties of it.
So it was a bit of a slog.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Yeah, and as always, we're kind of limited by what
we can find English language sources on or what we
can find reliable translations for and yeah and what yes,
what results Google gives us, because that's a fun thing
right now. Anyway, Yeah, well, different broadcasts.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
But yes, well that being said, listeners, if you have
any thoughts throughout this, any recommendations, oh yeah, I'm I'm
on the lookout now, any resources, please let us know,
because yeah, it was a it was kind of a
tricky one. You can see our past episodes on distilling
(02:59):
and just alcohol in general.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Sure, and definitely gin for more on that process.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Which again we have a whole video of Lauren and
I making gin. We do.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, that was a fun day.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
That was a fun day. That was a really fun day.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
And they just kind of, oh, oh sure, Well, I'm
always a little bit nervous in interviews.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
But yes, but yeah, they definitely were like, would you
like to bottle some gin? And I said yes, but
I was panicking. But it was great. It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
It was I mean, I just kind of like inserted
us into the production line and I was like, well,
I guess we're just here for the foreseeable future. I
do not know how to stop now that I know
how to do it, and I'm not going to tell
them that I'm not going to do this anymore, so you.
Speaker 1 (03:50):
Kind of get lost in the process almost.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Yeah. Yeah, this was an old fourth Board Distillery, which
is a local Atlanta distillery and delightful human people.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Yeah, yes, and the video is really jenare I say fun? Yeah,
And we had a lot of great people that we
work with who got to take time out of what
they normally did and help us out with that video,
So that was kind of fun. But okay, I guess
this brings us to our question. Sure, yeah, aquavite.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
What is it? Well? Aquafit is a type of distilled
neutral liquor flavored with botanicals. Carraway and dill seeds are
perhaps the most common, giving the drink like warm, herbal, savory,
bitter sort of profile with a little bit of like
boozy sweetness, but any number of other botanicals can be added.
(04:46):
The liquor might be bottled immediately or aged in a
stainless steel to remain clear in color and more herb forward,
or aged in different kinds of barrels, either new or reused.
Fortified wine barrels are common in order to impart like smooth, buttery,
vanilla and or whiny kind of flavors. It's traditionally served
(05:08):
chilled in small glasses to sip, either with or maybe
after a meal. The flavors can vary pretty widely, but
the traditional like hairway dill types taste like a like
a spice seeded bread like a Jewish rye or a
black bread, though it can be either cleaner or toastier
depending on that aging process. It's like drinking a spice cabinet.
(05:32):
It's like it's like looking out on a snowy sunset
from behind paned glass, just wrapped up in like a
good cozy sweater.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Sounds amazing.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah, yeah, like really cold outside kind of bracing, but
you're warm at the moment. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
I like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
To make equavy, you start by distilling alcohol fermented from
some kind of starch, like potatoes or a grain. This
distill it is meant to be neutral in flavor, like
like vodka, so that you can build botanical flavors in
usually by redistilling the liquor was sort of like a
giant tea satchel of herbs or spices or fruit or
flowers or what have you. You might do this separately
(06:19):
and blend the resulting flavored liquors, or you might do
them all together, or you might like steep things in
sitting liquor and then strain it. This is totally how
gin works, all right. However, engine your primary flavoring is juniper,
which is piny in aquavite. Your primaries are usually dill
and or caraway seeds. We haven't done an episode on caraway. Well,
(06:43):
we'll have to do that in the future. It's the
seed of an herb in Appyassia, the carrot family, and
it tastes like warm and bitter and earthy, sort of
like the skin of a carrot. I know that that's
a part that we often discard these days, but if
you've ever had that just real bitter bite on the
outside of a ca, it's sort of like that. It
also has a little bit of like like anis or
(07:04):
licorice flavor. We have done an episode on dill. You're
probably more familiar with the herb. The seeds are kind
of similar to caraway, like warm and bitter, but they've
got a sort of lemony twist and a little bit
of camphor like like parsley, like a strong parsley. This
is also in the carrot family. By the way, caraway
seed is commonly used in savory dishes like sauer kraut
(07:28):
or like Easternish European bee for pork preparations or goulash
or breads. They are the seeds in seeded rye bread,
for example. So if any of those dishes are your
main familiarity with, caraway, aquavied is probably going to remind
you deeply of those makes sense. I've seen all kinds
(07:49):
of ingredients being put into aquavied, though many with sort
of like riffs on those primary flavors, so like thyme, fennel, coriander, apple, citrus, peel, vanilla, cinnamon, rosemary,
annis rye, juniper, peppercorn, marigold, allspice. As a it's a
(08:10):
kind of broader category of botanical liquors, though I've also
seen riffs with like coconut or rose hip, rhubarb, raspberry, mulberry,
white truffle.
Speaker 1 (08:20):
I don't know, I'm trying to envision this. I love it,
but I need to I need to I need to
sample some things.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I think, yeah, yeah, no, absolutely, I want to try
all of these. But then also you've got the aging
process right, or the lack thereof so right. You can
bottle aquavied right off the still, or age it to
let the flavors develop on their own in stainless steel
or cask, mature it the way that you would say
(08:57):
a whiskey, and that wood is going to add flavors
like kind of butter or caramel or vanilla or dried fruit.
And yeah, sometimes barrels that have already done had something
in it like sherry or whiskey or madeira are used,
and so you'll get some flavors from those in there too.
The traditional styles do all use caraway and or dill,
(09:20):
but they are separated into Norwegian styles which are barrel aged,
Danish styles which are not, Swedish styles which are not
and which also include fennel, and Icelandic styles which are
not an only include caraway. I'm pretty sure that's the breakdown,
(09:43):
I think, listeners, let us know. Oh my goodness, Okay.
The Icelandic ones are sometimes called the Black Death in
apparently a nod to their historical precautionary labeling.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
But yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Aquavied is modernly made in lots of places and with
lots of different local flare. It is traditionally served on
its own, often chilled as a sort of sipper. It
does pair well with foods like fatty fish, and I
understand it's a traditional celebratory drink and a lot of
places where it's from, sometimes as a shooter at Christmas
or Easter or midsummer or midwinter, or like a wedding,
(10:26):
sometimes alongside a beer. I think it's considered a little
bit old fashioned, like sort of like a grandpa drink
in many segments of these cultures again right in and yeah,
it can also be used in all sorts of cocktails.
The clear types can sub in for like a gin
or a vodka, the brown types for a rum or
maybe a whisky like a rye whiskey.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I saw recipe for a lingenberry aquavied flip that I
really want to try, and I've read that the caraway
actually blends really well with like fruity tropical flavors like
pineapple or coconut. I definitely want to try it in
a bloody mary, which is another thing that I saw,
or like a darkened stormy guess, just like, hey, can
(11:11):
we make this drink? I already like weirder. Could it
be a little bit weary?
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Add some more nuanced flavors? I love that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Well what about the nutrition drink responsibly? Yes?
Speaker 1 (11:32):
M m, Well, this is a popular drink, and we've
got some numbers to back that up.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
We do, so, Okay. There's this Nordic liquor group, a
sort of supergroup called a Nora that produces about five
million liters of aquavied per year out of a total
of like twenty million liters of alcohol overall. Of that
five million, one point three million stays in Norway and Sweden,
with much of the rest going to Denmark, Germany, and
(12:02):
the United States. However, consumption was actually on a decline
as of twenty twenty two. This International Beverage Industry market
researcher called IWSR said that's been declining gradually in popularity
since nineteen ninety, which was the first year that they
started tracking Aquavied. They say that that's due to an
(12:23):
aging consumer base, but they also say that the premium
category of aquavite is gaining in market share, and the
hope is that this will help attract new fans. This
isn't quite a number, but y'all, there is a farmer
company out of New York City that's called Aquavied, and
that really borked my Google searches. Wanted to put that
(12:47):
in here, thanks, but no thanks. However, they do work
a lot with bochulinum toxin, among other things, which is
actually pretty cool. Yeah, I really enjoy bochulinum toxin. Really
fun one.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Oh, dear.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Jear, need to hear about the fun parts of botulism.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I've got you.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Wow, we're ostensibly party. Oh heck, we're ostensibly a food show. Okay, okay.
The Historical Museum of Wine and Spirits in Stockholm lists
over two hundred drinking songs that are devoted to aquavied
(13:33):
This this is partially due to the fact that there's
an annual aquavit songwriting competition.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Oh that's fun.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Yeah, if you know anything about that one definitely right
in Okay. There is an annual Norwegian aquet festival in Yovic, Norway,
in late September that has about thirty thousand attendees every year.
The festival charters a dedicated from Oslo Central Station. I
understand that popular participating restaurants get booked out like months
(14:06):
in advance. According to the website quote, the festival is
also suitable for those who shockingly should not like aquavit.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Interesting, what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (14:21):
It means that they've got something for everyone. You know,
there's other food and beverages involved. It sounds like a
really great, like educational food and drink festival.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Oh, I see, I took it as an insult that
all right.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
I mean I think that there's a little bit of
an insult involved there, Like if you shockingly do not
like it, well we can serve you anyway. H There
is also an Aquavit Week here in the United States
in late June, which we are shockingly on time about.
(14:56):
I hope it's happening again this year because if not,
then we're shocking not in time for it. But yeah,
it started up in twenty twelve. There are events in Brooklyn, DC, Seattle,
and Portland, which is where the concept started to write.
Hold this kind of like informational celebration of aquavieit here
in the States. As of twenty twenty three, there were
(15:18):
twenty bars and restaurants across those cities participating, and the
event staff keeps a running list of aquavits that are
available here in the US, and right now they have
eighty one listed, made both in the Nordic countries and
around the US.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Ooh okay, I again, listeners, I'm really hoping you're right
in about this because that sounds pretty cool too.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, right right, yes, Well.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
The history is quite interesting for this one.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Yeah, yeah, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break.
For a word from our sponsors, air.
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and again see
our episodes on distillation alcohol specifically jin. Perhaps there is
a long history of distillation in Europe and of flavoring
alcohol with herbs and spices, and aquaviyt is a part
of this history and it built off things that came
(16:28):
before it. While a similar spirit to aquavite had existed
in Europe and elsewhere prior, for those in Scandinavia, it
often required imported wine and was therefore expensive, so people
weren't really drinking it. That changed when Swedish soldiers learned
had a distill alcohol from grain. Spiced wine had a
(16:52):
long tradition in Europe, meaning that Scandinavians added locally grown
ingredients like dill and caraway locally grown at that time,
and these ingredients might have massed the potentially strong taste
of the alcohol. I read that in some places. I
don't know, but several small distilleries popped up in Nordic
(17:13):
farms to distill aquavite and other alcohols after they discovered
this process. Since at least the fifteenth century, records indicate
that aquavite was popular in Scandinavia and was often viewed
as medicinal. It was used to treat a whole host
of things, including the black plague, which is funny going
(17:33):
back to that Icelandic aquavite at its name.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Yeah, there is another theory that it's nicknamed the Black
Death in Iceland because of that connection to.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
The Black plague.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I read at least two or three different origin stories
for that for that nickname. But okay, Yeah, the word
aquavite is in fact based on the Latin term for
water of life, life, indicating that yes, it was thought
to be healthful. Whiskey is based on the same term. Yeah, yes,
(18:08):
And according to the Scandinavian standard, German traders introduced aquavi
to Scandinavia in the fourteen hundreds, where it was first
used medicinally but was soon embraced as a drink. And
it may have been used to light their gunpowder. I
(18:28):
don't know what that means.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I I did it either or because it said just
gunpowder and then I was like, let me look into this,
and it was like light their gunpowder, Like okay, I guess.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
I don't know. I sometimes things that you read in
some of these stories, especially right, like it's kind of
like it was this based on a game of telephone
and what did you originally mean? And how anyway? I
suspect that what they meant about the German traders is
that Germans introduced either distilled alcohol or distilling techniques in
(19:05):
the fourteen hundreds. That was around when distillation was really
taking off around mainland Europe. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Well. That same article alleged that many in Denmark started
distilling products like aquavit in their homes to avoid taxes,
and it did crack me up. How many times I
ran into taxes or other laws while researching this, which
is true for a lot of alcohol share stories that
we do.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:38):
The first known written instance of Nordic aquavit is from
a fifteen thirty one letter from Dutch lord Eskia Bila
to the Norwegian bishop Olaf Ingelbrick's son Oo, I hope
I got that somewhat close, and Bilia sent some aquavit
to the Norwegian bishop, which he promise could cure just
(20:01):
about anything. That's a nice promise. Potatoes, another component key
to modern Norwegian aquabits, likely arrived in the country in
the seventeen fifties when priests military folks returned after traveling
across Europe, and during their travels they encountered the delicious
(20:22):
and nutritious potato, and they brought it back and they
planted it. I think we talked about this in our
French Fi episode. There was a whole campaign about it,
about eating potatoes. Soon people started experimenting with the potato
when they were distilling. It particularly took off after passing
the passing of a Norwegian law prohibiting the production of
(20:44):
liquors other than grain based variants. So everybody was like,
let's try this potato. Yeah, sure, yeah, okay. A popularly
reported story about aquavit goes that in eighteen oh five,
a trading manager named Henrique Menke his ship was chartered
(21:04):
to travel from Norway to what is now Indonesia, carrying
a wide range of things like ham, cheese, fish, and aquavit.
The journey was a long one, and the captain was
not happy to learn that aquavite was not well received
in the hot and humid weather of their destination. So
the oak barrels filled with aquavit stayed on the ship
(21:26):
until it sets cell once again, and for two years
the aquavite sat in these barrels in the sun in salt,
rocked by the waves. When they finally returned to their
port of origin. Everyone assumed the alcohol would be off,
would need to be thrown away. However, to their surprise,
not only had the aquavite survived the journey, it seemed
(21:48):
to have gotten even better in taste, and so everyone
was like, we're onto something here. Skipping ahead a few
decades to the eighteen thirties, Norway's shipping route access had expanded,
and as part of this, Norwegian ships regularly transported dried
cod to South America, carrying aquavied with them as they
(22:11):
did to recreate the taste of aging while traveling over
the Equator and back. So they were trying to let's
just put this aquavied on ships. Yeah, yeah, we can
get this again.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
There there are companies that to this day, Norwegian companies
that will yeah, send their barrels out on ships to
go back over the equator yep, to control this aging process. Okay,
I read that aquafit's production in Norway peaked in the
eighteen thirties with eleven thousand small farm distilleries registered, And
(22:49):
the source that I got this from so that the
population at that time was only about nine hundred thousand,
so there was like slightly more than one distillery for
every hundred people. To be fair, I've also read that
there were only nine thousand distilleries or only two thousand,
five hundred. However, I would say that any of those
numbers would still be impressive.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yeah, Scandinavian immigrants brought AquaFed with them to the United
States in the years leading up to World War One.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, and in the early nineteen hundreds there was a
lot of writing in the US about European immigrants bringing
their preferred liquors from their home countries and the need
for bartenders to keep themselves informed about those ingredients. Of note,
a lot of those writings came with an air of
anti immigrant bias, like calling the ingredients strange or railing
(23:46):
about their general existence in the US. According to a
vine Pair article citing a nineteen oh seven article from
Oregon's The Morning Historian, one of the writers lamented about
one such outcome. Hall quote next to Santa Cruz drum
is about the strongest liquor made, and the alcohol in
reference is believed to be aquavit, And it was not
(24:12):
said in.
Speaker 2 (24:12):
A positive Yeah. Yeah, that's so interesting, because when you're
talking about strength, I'm like, are you talking about strength
of flavor or actual alcohol content, because most alcohol content
really it's really within a certain window.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
That's true. That's true. You can read the whole article,
and he sounded like a grumpy He just wasn't into
any type of change from what he was used to. Now,
that's what it felt like to Yeah, you know, well,
at this time, the aquavit this American writer encountered was
(24:55):
most likely a product distilled in Norway from Norwegian potatoes
and ported American corn and Russian wheat, and the bottles
cost about twenty five dollars into day's money. This article
was written in twenty sixteen, so twenty sixteen money roughly
the same as Irish or Scotch whiskey at the time. However,
by the time bottles of aquavit had made it to
(25:18):
the US, they'd usually undergone quite a boat journey before
ever arriving in America. People's tunes in America started to
change when it, along with all other alcohol, was banned
during Prohibition in the US, and some wrote about its
medicinal benefits, which I lent to believe was so they
(25:39):
could still drink it or still use it.
Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, there was a lot of that during prohibition, So
that doesn't that wouldn't surprise me.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, that's what it sounded like. In more recent times,
American bartenders have been experimenting with aquavit as a cocktail ingredient,
which is a controversial endeavor according to some people who
think you should just drink it straight.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, I right, Yes, I have heard that the appropriate
traditional way to drink it is just sip it on it.
But yeah, I have also heard a lot of people
say that they really dislike it and that it shouldn't
be used for anything.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
So that's a fair point. That's a fair point.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
People people have opinions.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
A thing that helped open up the market for aquavite
happened in two thousand and five in Norway. Though previously
to then there was only one company legally permitted to
produce liquor in Norway. Prior to nineteen ninety six, it
was government run, but in two thousand and five the
government ended that monopoly and lots more distilleries opened up right,
(26:52):
giving room for a lot more riffs on the concept.
Speaker 1 (26:56):
Due to some issues though importing aquavite into the United States,
the founder of House Spirits and Westward whiskey. Christian Krogstad
distilled his own aquavit in twenty and six.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Yeah, there are now dozens of varieties distilled by different
companies around the US. Also, all right, the thing that
I said earlier about how the market for aquabed has
been in a decline since the nineteen nineties is true
except for one exception. There was a spike in aquavied
popularity during the pandemic shutdowns of like twenty twenty to
(27:31):
twenty twenty one, perhaps for nostalgia reasons. It's a thing
that people remember drinking in family gatherings and they wanted
that memory. Norway's Aquavit received a European Union geographical indication
in twenty twenty I think Sweden's Aquavied had already had one,
(27:53):
and then a corporate merger in twenty twenty one among
Nordic liquor companies into that aforementioned supergroup called a Nora
might wind up having a positive influence on the international
spread of these local liquors like aquavit, you know, like
more more platform, more money might get them out there
(28:15):
a little bit more. And in fact, that piece of
information is from a twenty twenty two article in Drinks
International that called aquavit quote the new mescal question mark.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
Oh my goodness. We run into this all the time
all the time. As you said, always the cupcake.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, it's always the cupcake for trendy desserts. But the
new mescal. Yeah, something's going to replace mescal eventually.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Well, I definitely want to seek it out, and I
really hope listeners who have more experience right about this, yeah,
because it was very regional in a way that was
hard to track in some cases. And I love the
traditions I read about it. There were so many articles
about the toasting tradition of it and things like that.
(29:16):
So I would love to hear if you have any
traditions around it.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Yes, oh yes, we do already have some listening mail
for you though, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from one more
quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
They were back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with your snow. Yes. If any listeners can
write in about the cheers.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, I understand it requires for my contact.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Oh no, apologies, ur, Yes, I understand it requires that,
and maybe like a double tap oh okay, on the table.
But again, listeners were counting on you. We are so
please please let us know. But in the meantime we
have heard from listeners who let us know about other things.
(30:17):
Amy wrote, I loved listening to your episode about Thousand
Island dressing. I grew up in the Thousand Islands area
and am from Norristown, New York. However, I never knew
the story of Thousand Island dressing. I found this very interesting.
I have been to Boltcastle twice, first for a third
grade class trip around nineteen ninety two, well before it
(30:39):
was renovated, and then at about twenty sixteen when we
went on a family vacation. The renovations are gorgeous, and
I highly recommend taking a tour as well as a
tour of the Thousand Islands with Uncle Sam boat tours.
The story you told about George Bolt building the house
for his wife, then abandoning it when she died is
the story I grew up knowing as well. It is
(31:02):
great now that the house has been finished. Ooh okay, yes, I.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Love these tour recommendations. And again, like I cannot stress
hard enough how gorgeous the area looked when I was
reading all about it. Yeah, yes, I really want to
go to there.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
I do as well. I do as well. I think
it'd be really fun just to hear people's opinions about
the history of this, the history of the dressing, but
also a castle. That's great, right it had a lot
of war behind it.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah, yeah, oh heck. Kristen wrote, I know this is
slightly delayed, but I've been meaning to write in about
the Macaroons episode. I was so excited when it popped
up in my feed At the moment my own pantry
was stuffed full of matza and macaroons. I always appreciate
your forays into Ashkenazi classics like this, which are so
(31:58):
deeply nostalgic for those of us who grew up with them.
If you know, you know, and if you don't, then
I really hope that learning about them through your podcast
could inspire people to give them a try the next
time they see and cap displays full of holiday foods
at the grocery store. I think Sayer listeners can agree
that foods are such a beautiful and approachable way to
learn about other cultures. I was so relieved when Lauren
(32:19):
had the same reaction I did to the New Manishchevit's
Macaroon packaging, abandoning the classic canisters for plastic pouches. I
almost couldn't find them at the store because the packaging
was so unfamiliar. I was not thrilled about the new look,
but I bought them.
Speaker 1 (32:34):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
When I opened the bag to put the macaroons on
a platter for a sator dessert spread, I was disappointed
to find them all squished and flattened inside the bag
instead of the perfect little ridged domes of nostalgic familiarity. Sad. Anyways,
I was really surprised to learn in the episode that
macaroons and macarons do share an overlapping history after all.
(32:55):
That makes the similar names make more sense. Thanks for
teaching me something new as a old ways. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that canister thing really really got to be on a
deep and emotional level.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
And I'm sorry that you also went through this.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
It can be jarring, it can.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Be yeah, container pun intended, Yes, I.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Know, it's like, is this fun? I think it is
now it is? Yeah, And I feel like a lot
of companies we've run across lately are updating there. Yeah,
they're packaging and people are upset. So it's interesting. I
(33:46):
guess this must be some kind of push of you know,
updating or.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, modernization, all those kind of things. I was really
hoping that the that the pouch packaging was going to
provide an equal Karn experience. It is sad that they
were squished. I hope they were still tasty. Yeah, yeah,
and right, no, I mean that is exactly the point
(34:11):
of this entire show, of just trying to trying to
talk about different stuff and where it's from and the
people who made it, and because it is beautiful and
right and like, as we say, I think about every episode,
there's so many things that we're not familiar with that
we get such a kick out of learning about and
want to go try.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
Yes, yeah, And that's one of the great parts of
hearing from your listeners. Yes, hearing whether you are on
the same like oh I didn't know about this, or
whether you were like, actually I know a lot about this.
Let me tell you about my history growing up with it.
It's great, It's all good. So thank you as always
(34:52):
for taking the time to write in. Thanks to these
listeners for writing in. If you would like to write
to us, you can our email is Hello at saverpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
We are also on social media. Sometimes you can find
us on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at saver pod and
we do hope to hear from you. Saver is production
of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you
can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
(35:23):
are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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