August 6, 2024 • 43 mins
This (usually) blue-veined cheese is one traditional product that’s changed with the times. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of Stilton cheese, including both Welly Wangin and microbiology.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese, an unlarn vocal baum, and today we
have an episode for you about Stilton Cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It has been on our list for a long time
and it's time was up. It is time for Stilton.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, that sounded very threatening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
All your time has come just officious, just you know, okay,
it is. The meeting has come around to Stilton.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
As we were discussing before this, there there have been
a lot of meetings, a lot of officiousness about Stilton,
if you will allow. So it's gonna be fun. I
know I've had Stilton, but I don't particularly have a
strong memory associated with it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I I don't specifically remember the last time I had it,
but I know that I have and I know that
I've liked it. But I like a nice, funky blue cheese,
so generally speaking.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I'm like the first to put like, if I'm
making a cheeseplate, I will certainly have something that's going
to be off putting to some of the people I'm
serving it too on there because I'm like why don't
you try it? I'm all stink up this whole room.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Let's go. It feels very appropriate to your personality. I
like it. You're like challenging people. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah,
go try it. A little bit of chaos, throw.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
On it, tiny bit of chaos. Yeah, got some chaos
on your cheese, you do. Although I in doing this reading,
I learned that that people have historically like put little
domes over particularly smelly cheeses in service situations, and I
think that that's great. I would love to have a
(02:03):
little dome for my specifically stinky cheese.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's pretty cute.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I've seen that me neither.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I like it. I like it. It also gives like
a vibe of this cheese is a little dangerous.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah right, I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, okay, you can see our past cheese episodes. We
do love a good cheese episode around here, so we
have we have quite a backlog to look into. I
guess yogurt's always a good one.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
This conversation absolutely a cheddar, perhaps especially for more English cheesery.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
English cheesery, Well, speaking of, I guess that breaks us
to our question. Yeah, Stilton, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, Stilton is a small category of cow milk cheeses
that are soft and tender all the way through, with
a slightly thicker, like more toothsome outer coat. They're white
in color white to off white, and the most famous
of them are shot through with these like earthy blue
green veins. They're aged a relatively short period.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Of time, just a few months.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Depending on the type, the younger ones will retain some
like acidic brightness and a little bit of flakiness. The
older ones go a little yellowed in color and will
be creamier, crumblier, and taste a little bit more mellow,
though the ones with the veins do have a decided
like sharp, dusty funkiness to them. They are perhaps most
(03:44):
often eaten on their own, you know, with like bread
fruit wine pairings, as part of a cheese plate, but
they can also be spread on a sandwich or crumbled
into salads or on top of warm dishes, or used
to make sauces or dips. It's it's an interesting cheese
because it is so soft and creamy on the palette,
(04:05):
but like the strength of that dusty sharp flavor is
very shoulder squaring, like this is a cheese that encourages
good pasture. M It's like it's like going into your
basement and encountering a very proper ghost. You know, you're
not scared, You're just a little bit intimidated that maybe
(04:27):
you're wearing the wrong waistcoat for the occasion.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh I'm intimidated by that all the time, my waistcoat.
Joy I do love that though. Yeah, I get you.
It's like a it's just a certain I gotta straighten
my back, yeah for this one, A little bit bracing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So there are three ish types of stilton cheese, white blue,
and mature and or vintage blue. The white is made
without veins, the blues are made with veins, and the
mature slash vintage blue varieties are aged a bit longer
than either of those. The veins are composed of friendly
mold that the cheesemaker has encouraged to grow throughout the cheese.
(05:16):
Because humans get up to all kinds of things. Yeah, yep,
we sure do.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yep. Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So cheese is a method of preserving milk by getting
a bunch of the water out and condensing that the
fats and proteins and other nutritious stuff that's in it.
In the case of stilton. You do this by combining
your milk with some things that will help the fats
and stuff coagulate, thus separating out from the water and stuff.
(05:46):
That's done using a friendly lactic acid, bacteria, and an
enzyme called rennet. And at the same time, if you're
making a blue variety, you're going to add another type
of microbe. It's going to be important later, a type
of molds, four of the species Penicillium rockeforte. All Right,
after the curds the fats and stuff sort of solidify,
(06:10):
you can start draining the water and stuff, and then
you place You do not press. You place the curds
into these big cylindrical hoops, letting them rest to drain more,
and turning them every few days to distribute the remaining
moisture pretty evenly throughout. Once the cylinders are solid enough,
you remove the hoops and scrape down the sides of
(06:33):
the cheeses to seal off the tiny airways between the
curds on that outer edge to prevent mold from having
access to oxygen and therefore from growing inside of the cheese.
Yet in the case of those blue varieties, okay, here's
where our first divide happens. So if you're going for
that white stilton, which by the way, I've never encountered,
(06:54):
did not know it existed, super curious about it. Now,
if you're going for white, you set the wheel aside
for finishing, you know, grading, packaging, and sale. I understand
that it tastes a little cleaner and has this almost
like flaky sort of texture. But if you're going for blue,
then you place the cheese in a climate controlled area
for ripening for like about five weeks or so. At
(07:17):
that point, your cheese's texture will have been developing nicely
into something a little bit more right creamy crumbly, but
it won't yet have those blue veins that you're looking
for because the interior of the cheese is more or
less sealed off from airflow and mold needs air to grow.
So at this point you pierce the cheese through going
(07:37):
from the round edges of the cylinder straight inwards using
these clean stainless steel needles, you know, so that no
other microbes really have a chance to hitch a ride in.
And you might do this like twice over two weeks. Finally,
around seven weeks total, the cheese will be graded G
r a d ed like like given, you know, like
(07:59):
ape or you know in this case not that, but okay,
the cheese grater takes a core sample again from that
rounded edge, and we'll assess whether the appearance, texture, smell,
and taste are a appropriate to label a stilton at all
versus like merely blue cheese, and b what type of
(08:22):
stilton it could be labeled as. So it could be
packaged for sale at this point, or you could keep
aging it. Those like regular old blue stiltons are sold
around six to twelve weeks of aging, and we'll have
a white body with a flaky but velvety texture and
a sharp flavor. Mature blues are age ten to fifteen
weeks and have developed a like creamy yellow white sort
(08:46):
of color and a creamier texture with a little bit
more of a mellowed flavor. And then vintage blues are
also like off white yellow, with a bit of a
drier texture and a stronger flavor. And I need a
easting platter of these stat immediately.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I didn't even know now that I do.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Heck, yeah, I want to side by side, I want
to go through each there, share notes.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, yes, okay, anyway, I'm just thinking about cheese plates now,
coming back, coming back, all right, All three of these
blue varieties have those characteristic veins of sort of like
murky blue green sneaking through the cheese like like like
streams through the countryside. So what's happening here is that
(09:37):
by letting air into the body of the cheese, the
penicillium rock of Forte starter culture that was introduced in
the beginning suddenly has enough air to begin growing in
and around that that that relatively loose matrix of the
kurds within the wheel. Remember they're they're not packed in,
so they've got some space between them for that moment
(09:57):
to grow. Is a type of fungus, and these veins
are are composed of the visible spores of that fungus
that it will put out like the equivalent of like
the seeds.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Of a plant.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, the finished cheeses are in this right like tall
cylindrical wheel called a truckle, which I love.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Right, yes, new word.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
These truckles come in different sizes. I've seen ones about
two point two kilos, which is around five pounds, that
are about five and a half inches in diameter, that's
fourteen centimeters and stand a little bit taller than that,
and then ones that weigh about seven and a half
kilos that's sixteen pounds, that have like about the same proportions,
(10:44):
just scaled up. I didn't I didn't do the math.
I did not do the do the math. Today, Stilton
does have a PDL, a protected designation of origin, and
current law dictates that it can only be made in
three counties in England, Shear, Derby, Shear and Nottingham Shere
you have to use full fat, pasteurized milk that is
(11:07):
harvested from those counties unless there's a milk shortage there,
and then milk from surrounding counties is okay too. You
cannot press the cheese into its hoops. There are six
cheese producers currently able to even attempt to label their
cheese Stilton, and I'm going to read them all out
because English nomenclature is amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We've got Websters, Holston, Bassett, Cropwell, Bishop Tuxford and Tebbett,
Hartenting Dairy Hardington keep saying it wrong and long Clawson.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Wow, you gave me a little cheeser that this was
going to be a very English list. It didn't disappoint
It's just.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
The englishest thing I've ever heard, and I love it
so much, every single one of those. Anyway, I seriously like,
I can't believe that we rebelled against nomenclature like this,
Like come on, like, what are we doing over here?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
This is excellent?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So oh okay.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Anyway, those three counties, which are north of London and
like a central England area called the East Midlands, have
a good soil for grasses and the sort of temperate,
less humid than most of England climate, which contribute to
the milk qualities and the aging qualities of the cheese.
The climate matters because it provides a friendly environment for
(12:42):
the microbes that contribute to that final flavor and texture.
Because like as with all fermented products that are not
you know, hermetically sealed, it's not just the microbes that
you introduce on purpose that lend themselves to the final product.
It's also like whatever is living on the surfaces and
in the air around the cheese as it's aging. And yeah,
(13:03):
siltans are flavorful cheeses, you know, at a little bit
creamy and nutty and yeasty sweet, like like a little
bit of sweetness in there, but then with that sharp
and dusty aftertaste and that soft and velvety texture all
at the same time goes really well with both sweet
and savory flavors, making a cheese plate in my head. Okay,
(13:26):
it is traditionally associated with port wine and the Christmas holiday.
I read port because as the cheese was becoming fashionable,
the British were also at war with France, and so
like alternative wines like Portugal's port were two becoming fashionable.
(13:47):
I mean also they just sort of taste good when
you have them together. And then Christmas because all right, so,
cheese quality depends on milk quality, right, Milk quality depends
on a cow's feed and health, and rich late summer
grasses in this area help cows make excellent milk. So
(14:09):
stilton cheeses that are started in the late summer or
early fall would be ready right in time for Christmas.
I think I knew about the port association. You know,
it's again like a sweet, rich port is strong enough
in flavor and like booziness to stand up to the
sort of aggression of a stilton. But I did not
know about the Christmas association.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So y'all, y'all rite.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
In yes, yes, please do, because I did. I ran
across that a lot of my research as well. Wow A,
what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I you know, cheese is a nutrient dense food. Watch
your portion sizes, but it's got a good a good
punch of fat, a good punch of protein, you know,
Drink some water, eat some vegetable, to eat some vegetable.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Share. Let's phrase it that way today to keep you going.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I have a well balanced cheese.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Plase, there you go. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I did actually run into, apparently an old saying from
from the area in which this cheese is made. That goes,
drink a pot of ale, eat a scoop of stilted
every day, you will make old bones, meaning that like
you'll grow your Bone's good if.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You follow this dietary advice.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm not sure what a pot of ale is, and
you should not scoop your stilton.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I appreciate your explanation because I was like, the old bones.
Is that a good thing or a bad things? I
don't know. Yeah, okay, thanks Lauren, Well sounds delicious. Nonetheless, right,
we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
We do, Okay, So as of today, a whole, like
like seven and a half kilo ish truckle of stilton
will cost you about two hundred and sixty five pounds sterling,
which is something like three hundred and forty bucks.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean seven and a half kilos of cheese
is liker.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
That's like sixteen pounds of That's like a lot of cheese.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's a lot of cheese. Yeah, I can go through
a lot of cheese. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yes, research has found lots of different yeasts and bacteria
in stilton that do contribute to its texture and flavor.
This one genetic study found sixty one different lactobaxtilla species
in a finished stilton, all living in different sections of
the cheese, and none of which were the original species
(16:52):
Lactococcus lactics that was added by the cheesemaker during production.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
How has this not been a pixarmy? You know, You've
got your different bacteria living in different parts of the cheese.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
All coming together to make a delicious product. Yeah, Pixar,
call us please for about zime and other cheese related
film ideas.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, we're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh heck, partially because we can tell you that there
is a Stilton Cheese Rolling Festival.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Most years.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There was actually like a seven year break starting after
the twenty seventeen event. Rising costs of holding it and
in the Stilton town Center did shut it down, but
they've now moved it to the outskirts and.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
It got rolling again in four.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
The event draws about three thousand guests every year in May,
every year that it runs, I suppose, okay, So what
happened was was back in nineteen fifty nine the village
of Stilton got bypassed when the A one highway was
being built from London like all the way up to
Edinburgh and apparently in the town of Stilton, which yes,
(18:09):
is where this cheese gets its name. Four pub owners
got together. They were like, what are we going to do.
There's gonna be fewer people visiting now. We need to
drum up patronage somehow, and thought cheese rolling. Yeah, obviously again,
humans get up to all kinds of things. So teams
(18:30):
of four people compete, usually in themed costumes, to roll
the cheese along this one hundred foot course It's about
thirty meters using only their hands. There are entries for men,
women and kids. Teams plus an f one course, which
has obstacles. A couple dozen teams compete in total. In
(18:55):
a good year, winners, I understand receive a large blue
cheese and a crate of beer. Not the kids, I'm
assuming these days they roll these foot long sections of
old telegraph poles instead of real cheeses, as real cheese
(19:16):
was always getting ruined by getting covered in grit.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, yeah, but don't worry.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
They do paint the logs to look like cheese.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Excellent, excellent news.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The festival also includes a costume contest, the crowning of
a may King and Queen, lots of food and drink
and music, and a welly wang in, which is a
competition in which you attempt to throw a rubber Wellington
boot as far as you can welly Wangon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Wow, listeners, please write down I this is amazing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's held like on the like like local football pitch,
and yeah, people get into.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It as they should. That's amazing, right, I've just don't all.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
She's just like shaking her head.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
This thing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah yep ye, well.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Okay, oh well we do have quite the history for you.
We do.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
We do no no history of welly Wangon's unfortunately, but
lots about Stilton, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back,
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay, so we've gone
(20:58):
over the probably accidental discovery of early cheeses. In all
of our cheese episodes, the story usually involves some combo
of dairy, some type of container like an animal, bladder,
movement within that container, temperature, and in some cases caves.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Like storing in caves. Environment and specifics around the animal
and region often come into play as well, which we
did see in Stilton. Sometimes there's a love story or
a breakup story, although those are usually never backed up
by anything, but it is a story people like to tell,
they do, they sure to. When it comes to blue
(21:43):
cheese like Stilton. According to cheese professor dot Com excellent name,
they may have originated sometime in BCE, where cheeses developed
blue veins when they were stored in caves. In the
world of blue cheese, Stilton is a bit newer, though
as usual, many have tried to lay claim to Stilton,
(22:04):
but in general historians agree it probably was created around
the seventeen hundreds and had something to do with the
bell in Stilton, Huntingdon Sheer, near modern day Cambridge. The
details are difficult to suss out, but according to sources
I read, Stilton was a market town at the time
and folks in this area were making cream cheese long
(22:28):
before the seventeenth century.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, and I don't think that this is referring to
cream cheese like we know it, like we use that
word today, like what you'd put on bagels modernly, but
rather types of cheese being made with like creamy whole milk.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
But linguistics, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Nope. Yeah, that's mysteries history. Part of the fun of
doing this research on the show, and it's always before refrigeration,
cheese was a great way to preserve milk. One source
I found asserted that there was evidence that cheese was
being produced in Stilton at least seventeen hundred years ago.
So I guess people might have been making cheese, is
(23:13):
what the general vibe is.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Were there cows there, probably someone was making cheese.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, exactly, yes, exactly. Also, Stilton was a day's journey
by carriage from London, and the bell Inn was a
nice place to stay. After the journey or while on
the journey from the north, tired travelers would try local products,
including this cheese, and then they would spread the word
about it, and as more and more people tried it,
(23:41):
demand grew. This brings us to some fun but unverifiable specifics. Yes.
One is that a cheesemaker named Francis Pollett from central
England sold her blue veined cheeses to a man named
Cooper Thornhill excellent name, who ran the bell in Paul.
(24:05):
It started essentially licensing her recipe to other cheesemakers to
meet demand, and this led to the commercialization of Stilton cheese.
The dates don't really match up, but she could have
played a role in popularizing it certainly. Another name that
comes up a lot is Lady Beaumont. In the seventeenth century,
(24:25):
she allegedly made a cream cheese for her family. It
earned the name Lady Beaumont Cheese, although it is sort
of up for grabs if she actually made it shriff
and maybe it was just named after her. Later, Thomas
Beaumont passed thrust Beyond to a nearby family and then
they started making it, and then yes spread from there.
(24:46):
A fellow named Richard Bradley wrote about Silton cheese around
this time. Quote as to the fashion of this cheese,
it is about eight inches high and about seven inches
the diameter over the top. It is so soft that
when we cut it at a year old, or about
the Christmas next after the making, one may spread it
upon bread like butter Christmas mention.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah yeah, and also approximately the size ish of those
truckles today, those truckles today, no matter who invented it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, it was served at the bell Inn in Stilton,
often to traveler from London in the seventeen twenties. In
Daniel Dafoe's seventeen twenty four travel memoir, he described Stilton
cheese as quote our English parmesan from quote, a town
famous for cheese. Though from what I read, the cheese
in question wasn't quite like our modern understanding of Stilton.
(25:46):
I got confused, because I was like, are you are
we critiquing his description of it, or anyway it might
not have been quite what we would have thought of. Okay,
that iteration seemed to come about some time around seventeen ninety,
but I will say I did come across. I love
to put long quotes in here and then I cut
(26:07):
them out because like it's just me being a nerd.
I did run across a lot of quotes about Stilton
from that time. Okay, okay, it was popping off. It
was popping off. In eighteen sixty six, Edward Bradley published
a four thousand word essay titled The Hero of Stilton
and Stilton Cheese, which appeared in the New York Times
(26:28):
and alleged the cheese had never been made in Stilton day.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Okay, wow, At any rate, it was a popular cheese
and like getting towards the idea of like of these
dimensions and perhaps a certain odor, because by the Victorian era,
(26:58):
these posh pottery like Wedgewood were producing these cheese stands,
specifically for Stilton's. They would consist of two pieces, a
base and then a removable cover shaped in a tall
cylinder to accommodate an entire chuckle of Stilton. And yeah,
the cover would like keep the cheese moist through dinner
service because the cheese courses near the end, and also
(27:20):
prevent it from smelling up the room. There were also
wedge and dome shaped cheese trays like this that I
imagine we're a bit more general purpose, but anyway, Yeah,
the cylindrical ones that I've seen tend to feature a
lot of nature scenes, roses, daisies, plum blossoms, lily pads, birds,
(27:40):
stuff like that. One was shaped like a turret tower
covered in vines. I really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
That sounds amazing. Yeah, I love this also, A chuckle
of Stilton is another phrase that is going to stick
with me after it as being very varying good. Okay.
By the nineteen tens, this cheese was popular enough that
the producers of it organized to hammer out specifics around
(28:09):
production method and definitions. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That this was a company, like the first of a
few cheesemaker co ops that worked together to improve the
quality and the quantity of production.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
All the while industrialization automated processes and move production away
from small farms, until the last farm producing Stilton closed
in nineteen thirty five. With modernization, only one town dairy
continued to make Stilton in the traditional way with unpasteurized
milk until they closed in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, there was this food poisoning outbreak that year that
was associated with Stilton cheeses.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So yeah, in nineteen ninety two, Stilton cheesemakers came together
and decided to amend the rules so that Silton Cheese
could no longer use unpasteurized milk.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, between that outbreak, but also it was that outbreak,
but it was also to kind of appease international customers,
possibly specifically the United States, that demanded pasteurized milk cheeses.
I will say that since then, a couple of Stilton
style cheeses made with raw milk have popped back up.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
In nineteen ninety six, Stilton Cheese secured that protected designation
of Origin status or PDO.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Right, and I outlined those pedo regulations at the top.
But fun thing here, the rules actually prevent blue cheeses
made in Stilton the village from being called Stilton cheese.
The bell In makes one that they now call Bells Blue.
The town has been fighting to get the rules changed
(29:55):
for decades. Now, Wow, this is ongoing.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Cheese regulations, my friend.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Oh, it's a harsh world, okay. But meanwhile, research into
the microbes that go into these cheeses is ongoing. So
in twenty twelve, researchers within the production area isolated this
particular wild yeast that is partially kind of largely responsible
(30:25):
for Stilton's characteristic sent called Euroea liptolytica sure i never
took Latin. The researchers hoped that in learning to control
this particular yeast, cheesemakers could make a more consistent product
in the future. And then just this year, a team
out of the University of Nottingham published a study of
(30:46):
how Penicillium rockeforti produces color and flavor as it grows,
and they discovered that the spores actually go through this
whole genetically controlled biochemical rain before arriving at their final
blue green color. And they discovered that they could stop
(31:07):
the process at different points to create new colors of
molds bores from white to yellow green, to pinkish red
to reddish brown. And their hope is that this will
lend itself to like interesting new entries in the blue
cheese market, you know, like make it more fun. Yeah. Also,
(31:28):
also in their testing, they found the people reported flavors
that they associated with the colors, flavors that were not
actually accurate to the chemical makeup of the cheese, which
was more or less the same as like standard blue
veined cheese. Humans get up stuff. Yeah, they did not
(31:49):
take photos or the finished cheeses before they ate them, though.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I both understand am very frustrated. I want to see
the Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
An article I was reading about it, and I think
on science dot org was saying that, yeah, they were
just kicking themselves over not taking photos.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
They were just too eager to eat the cheese.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I get it, Like I said, I get it, my friends,
you'll just have to do it again.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I guess so.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I guess so.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I guess so. Alas that would be cool. That's really interesting, right, yeah, okay,
all right, well, listeners, as always, if you have any
experience with this, if you've got thoughts, preferences, please let
us know. But I believe that's what we have to
(32:41):
say about Stilton for now.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this sor.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Was that a Wellington being thrown?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, it was like you're doing a little like drinking
song and then throw. There was a whole gesture. Listeners.
I've promised. Oh uh huh, Joe wrote, it's such delight
when my job collides with this podcast. I teach human evolution,
(33:30):
amongst other things. So the history section of the Bone
Mirror episode got my blood pump in. Annie. Your enthusiasm
made me so happy, because I too, nerd out so
hard for those few weeks unpacking stereotypes and talking about
all the glorious complexities of our history. There are so
many questions, and of course so many revolve around subsistence.
(33:53):
When did our lineage switch from opportunistic scavenging to hunting?
What is the role of foraging, how vegetarian or not?
Or various members of our lineage? How important was fire really?
And how can we say anything definitive about all these things?
Best to stop there, because each question is practically a
lecture in its own right. Most of my exposure to
(34:15):
bone marrow is through beef stews. In the Philippines, we
have one called bulaalo. It is the definition of a
marrow stew, a simple, but rich and hearty. My dad
tends to prefer a version with more emphasis on the
meat called Nilaga. Attaches a boulalo recipe from one of
my aunt's cookbooks, the one I mentioned a few listener
(34:36):
mails ago. The recipe is fascinating because it calls for
banana hearts and tofu. I usually see bolalo with kyot
squash and BACKCHOI tossed in at the end. Definitely give
the recipe and its variations a try, and please let
your butcher cut the bones for you. As a four
roasted bone marrow. I first had it at the Purple
(34:58):
Pig in Chicago. M meat better. The restaurant is still there,
as is the menu item. Time to go back. Yes.
Also thanks to all the listeners who supported Lauren and
telling me do not try to cut the bones. This
is multiple people.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
We want Annie to keep all of her fingers.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I love it. I really do appreciate. It's just been
very comical how many I've guns. I understand, you're right,
You're absolutely right. I love this. I as you could
hear in that episode, I did nerd out really hard
about the evolution of it. In fact, so cool of
like bone marrows possible role in our evolutionary history. I
(35:45):
recently was at the beach with some friends and this
is what I was like, you have to listen to
me talk about this. This is so cool and I'm
with you like every question and it raises all these
other questions, right, but also think, thank you so much
for including the pronunciations. I hope I didn't butcher them nonetheless,
but that's always appreciated.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, oh, my goodness, so appreciated. Yeah, oh and those
sound really good.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
They sound so good. I'm on the hunt, I am.
I will if I get the bones, I will get
the butcher to cut them up. But I am yet cool.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I have after that hollow, hollow episode that we did,
I have such a hecking craving for Filipino foods. So
I'm like, okay, we're going to have to do something
about this. But who yes, yes okay. EJ sent a
follow up email about the pizzas from Japan with more
details very important.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Thank you, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
So whenever I order one of these, it's for events
for homesick Americans, and it's only one or two of
these among an assortment of like sixteen to twenty four pizzas. Pepperoni,
which is somewhat rare, and pan is the most popular.
People ask me why do it? Because it's a conversation
starter and it always makes a good story. The pizzas
(37:08):
are square cuts, so you only really get a tiny
piece if you want. All right, Soakura pizza, yep, that's
a stuffed crust pizza. They proudly say. It was one
and a half times the amount of cheese, strawberry pink tapioca,
powdered sugar, and sakura shaped white chocolate. It's a dessert pizza,
so it tasted like a cousin to the strawberry Danish,
(37:30):
but with a pizza crust. The bloody Halloween pizza, all right.
The predominant flavor of this one was fire hot. Sauces
here tend to be mild, but this was legitimately hot
that you barely taste the sweet tapioca. Tapioca didn't bother
me because muchI is often thought of as a dessert,
but you can definitely have savory mochi. I like putting
muchI and cheese in my okinoma yaki, for example.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes, that is so good.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Okay, not sure what the black crust was, squid ink
active in charcoal. Halloween pizzas are a thing with Domino's Japan.
I've never tried any of these, but they have these
Russian roulette style pizzas where one or two slices would
be spiked to be extra spicy. Okay, Pickles pizza tasted
like a hamburger without the burger part. This year they've
(38:17):
done Cheesy Volcano, which is a paper bowl under a
pizza filled with cheese sauce, and right now they're doing
Cay Food, which is a bunch of Korean favorites on
a pizza. Cheesy Volcano was easily the biggest disappointment, as
it was just that cheese sauce. It was neither weird
or novel, nor good enough. The Ky Food was good,
(38:39):
but not as big of a stretch as of pickles pizza.
My favorite pizza at Domino's is the charcoal grilled beef pizza.
You order it with an ultra thin crust. You can
just roll it up like a pinwheel sandwich and pop
it in your mouth. Tastes like a night out at
a yaki niku restaurant or in izakaya in pizza form.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Best of all, it tastes good.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Or even better when cold. The best part of this
no tomato pizza is the smoky taste of chargrilled beef
with mushrooms and spinach on a bed of cheese, which
is also acquired a bit of smokiness from the beef.
And they also included photos of these things. The The
(39:21):
ad for the Halloween double Roulette pizza, Yeah shows shows
clearly the two of the slices are going to set
you on fire and everyone is going to laugh at
you in your pain.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It's excellent. It's green fire. And the person who got
the slice is doing all the work. He's carrying this
ad face he's making of absolute pain while the other
two laugh at him.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, it's excellent.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's beautiful, beautiful, so good.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And this charcoal grilled beef pizza yes, oh that looks
like a really high quality pizza like saucer or No.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
That's really good. Yeah, the ingredients sound really good. I
love this. I feel I feel like, first of all,
thank you EJ for following up because I did read
previous email and we had some questions. Thank you for
true yeah yeah, But I feel like, okay, listeners always
(40:28):
write in about any interesting pizzas you encountered, but I'm
going to keep an eye out because I don't know
that how Ween pizza has been something on my radar previously.
In the US, no snippers. But now I want to
know if there's has there been Halloween pizza I've been missing.
(40:50):
I've yeah, sometimes Burger King does sort of like, oh
the bun is black or something.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah that is green?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Now yeah, okay, but I want to I want to
get in on this Halloween pizza game.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
A very immediate Google search just has like, maybe we'll
shape your pizza sort of like a jackal lantern with
the pepperoni making the face.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
But that's not what you're that's not what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
No, I have higher standards. I I honestly, genuinely adore this.
I love this now. All of it is beautiful. It's
really good.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I definitely and and and I and I want to
double down. Mochi being a like kind of strictly sweet
thing in most of the US is incorrect. It should
because it goes so well with cheese. Again, it's that
same like kind of I'm making a I'm making a
gesture about the texture. It's it's that same kind of
(41:57):
like tacky texture that is really like weiness that's really
fun and very good. In okadomaiyaki, which is sort of
like a almost like a like an omelet kind of
situation if you've never had it.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, well now.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I want to go to I know, I know. Now
more cravings. Oh yeah, so so many cravings. But listeners,
for real, this is great. Please just send us any
sort of dominoes. It doesn't have to be dominoes, but
(42:33):
any kind of like promotion that's happening, any food related things, honestly.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, anything, especially if it's weird.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
We like. Yeah, we do like that. We do like
a good Halloween horror or whatever. But all of it
is good, all of it as well. Absolutely absolutely so.
Thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can Our
email is hello at saber Pod.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
We're also on social media. You can find us on.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod, and we do
hope to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way,
Hello, and welcome to Saber Prediction of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese, an unlarn vocal baum, and today we
have an episode for you about Stilton Cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
It has been on our list for a long time
and it's time was up. It is time for Stilton.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Oh, that sounded very threatening.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
All your time has come just officious, just you know, okay,
it is. The meeting has come around to Stilton.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
As we were discussing before this, there there have been
a lot of meetings, a lot of officiousness about Stilton,
if you will allow. So it's gonna be fun. I
know I've had Stilton, but I don't particularly have a
strong memory associated with it.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
I I don't specifically remember the last time I had it,
but I know that I have and I know that
I've liked it. But I like a nice, funky blue cheese,
so generally speaking.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
And I'm like the first to put like, if I'm
making a cheeseplate, I will certainly have something that's going
to be off putting to some of the people I'm
serving it too on there because I'm like why don't
you try it? I'm all stink up this whole room.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Let's go. It feels very appropriate to your personality. I
like it. You're like challenging people. Yeah, yeah, like, yeah,
go try it. A little bit of chaos, throw.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
On it, tiny bit of chaos. Yeah, got some chaos
on your cheese, you do. Although I in doing this reading,
I learned that that people have historically like put little
domes over particularly smelly cheeses in service situations, and I
think that that's great. I would love to have a
(02:03):
little dome for my specifically stinky cheese.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's pretty cute.
Speaker 3 (02:09):
Yeah, I've seen that me neither.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
I like it. I like it. It also gives like
a vibe of this cheese is a little dangerous.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Yeah right, I like that.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Okay, okay, you can see our past cheese episodes. We
do love a good cheese episode around here, so we
have we have quite a backlog to look into. I
guess yogurt's always a good one.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
This conversation absolutely a cheddar, perhaps especially for more English cheesery.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
English cheesery, Well, speaking of, I guess that breaks us
to our question. Yeah, Stilton, what is it?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, Stilton is a small category of cow milk cheeses
that are soft and tender all the way through, with
a slightly thicker, like more toothsome outer coat. They're white
in color white to off white, and the most famous
of them are shot through with these like earthy blue
green veins. They're aged a relatively short period.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Of time, just a few months.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Depending on the type, the younger ones will retain some
like acidic brightness and a little bit of flakiness. The
older ones go a little yellowed in color and will
be creamier, crumblier, and taste a little bit more mellow,
though the ones with the veins do have a decided
like sharp, dusty funkiness to them. They are perhaps most
(03:44):
often eaten on their own, you know, with like bread
fruit wine pairings, as part of a cheese plate, but
they can also be spread on a sandwich or crumbled
into salads or on top of warm dishes, or used
to make sauces or dips. It's it's an interesting cheese
because it is so soft and creamy on the palette,
(04:05):
but like the strength of that dusty sharp flavor is
very shoulder squaring, like this is a cheese that encourages
good pasture. M It's like it's like going into your
basement and encountering a very proper ghost. You know, you're
not scared, You're just a little bit intimidated that maybe
(04:27):
you're wearing the wrong waistcoat for the occasion.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh I'm intimidated by that all the time, my waistcoat.
Joy I do love that though. Yeah, I get you.
It's like a it's just a certain I gotta straighten
my back, yeah for this one, A little bit bracing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
So there are three ish types of stilton cheese, white blue,
and mature and or vintage blue. The white is made
without veins, the blues are made with veins, and the
mature slash vintage blue varieties are aged a bit longer
than either of those. The veins are composed of friendly
mold that the cheesemaker has encouraged to grow throughout the cheese.
(05:16):
Because humans get up to all kinds of things. Yeah, yep,
we sure do.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
Yep. Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
So cheese is a method of preserving milk by getting
a bunch of the water out and condensing that the
fats and proteins and other nutritious stuff that's in it.
In the case of stilton. You do this by combining
your milk with some things that will help the fats
and stuff coagulate, thus separating out from the water and stuff.
(05:46):
That's done using a friendly lactic acid, bacteria, and an
enzyme called rennet. And at the same time, if you're
making a blue variety, you're going to add another type
of microbe. It's going to be important later, a type
of molds, four of the species Penicillium rockeforte. All Right,
after the curds the fats and stuff sort of solidify,
(06:10):
you can start draining the water and stuff, and then
you place You do not press. You place the curds
into these big cylindrical hoops, letting them rest to drain more,
and turning them every few days to distribute the remaining
moisture pretty evenly throughout. Once the cylinders are solid enough,
you remove the hoops and scrape down the sides of
(06:33):
the cheeses to seal off the tiny airways between the
curds on that outer edge to prevent mold from having
access to oxygen and therefore from growing inside of the cheese.
Yet in the case of those blue varieties, okay, here's
where our first divide happens. So if you're going for
that white stilton, which by the way, I've never encountered,
(06:54):
did not know it existed, super curious about it. Now,
if you're going for white, you set the wheel aside
for finishing, you know, grading, packaging, and sale. I understand
that it tastes a little cleaner and has this almost
like flaky sort of texture. But if you're going for blue,
then you place the cheese in a climate controlled area
for ripening for like about five weeks or so. At
(07:17):
that point, your cheese's texture will have been developing nicely
into something a little bit more right creamy crumbly, but
it won't yet have those blue veins that you're looking
for because the interior of the cheese is more or
less sealed off from airflow and mold needs air to grow.
So at this point you pierce the cheese through going
(07:37):
from the round edges of the cylinder straight inwards using
these clean stainless steel needles, you know, so that no
other microbes really have a chance to hitch a ride in.
And you might do this like twice over two weeks. Finally,
around seven weeks total, the cheese will be graded G
r a d ed like like given, you know, like
(07:59):
ape or you know in this case not that, but okay,
the cheese grater takes a core sample again from that
rounded edge, and we'll assess whether the appearance, texture, smell,
and taste are a appropriate to label a stilton at all
versus like merely blue cheese, and b what type of
(08:22):
stilton it could be labeled as. So it could be
packaged for sale at this point, or you could keep
aging it. Those like regular old blue stiltons are sold
around six to twelve weeks of aging, and we'll have
a white body with a flaky but velvety texture and
a sharp flavor. Mature blues are age ten to fifteen
weeks and have developed a like creamy yellow white sort
(08:46):
of color and a creamier texture with a little bit
more of a mellowed flavor. And then vintage blues are
also like off white yellow, with a bit of a
drier texture and a stronger flavor. And I need a
easting platter of these stat immediately.
Speaker 3 (09:04):
I didn't even know now that I do.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Heck, yeah, I want to side by side, I want
to go through each there, share notes.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Yeah, yes, okay, anyway, I'm just thinking about cheese plates now,
coming back, coming back, all right, All three of these
blue varieties have those characteristic veins of sort of like
murky blue green sneaking through the cheese like like like
streams through the countryside. So what's happening here is that
(09:37):
by letting air into the body of the cheese, the
penicillium rock of Forte starter culture that was introduced in
the beginning suddenly has enough air to begin growing in
and around that that that relatively loose matrix of the
kurds within the wheel. Remember they're they're not packed in,
so they've got some space between them for that moment
(09:57):
to grow. Is a type of fungus, and these veins
are are composed of the visible spores of that fungus
that it will put out like the equivalent of like
the seeds.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Of a plant.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
Yeah, the finished cheeses are in this right like tall
cylindrical wheel called a truckle, which I love.
Speaker 3 (10:18):
Right, yes, new word.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
These truckles come in different sizes. I've seen ones about
two point two kilos, which is around five pounds, that
are about five and a half inches in diameter, that's
fourteen centimeters and stand a little bit taller than that,
and then ones that weigh about seven and a half
kilos that's sixteen pounds, that have like about the same proportions,
(10:44):
just scaled up. I didn't I didn't do the math.
I did not do the do the math. Today, Stilton
does have a PDL, a protected designation of origin, and
current law dictates that it can only be made in
three counties in England, Shear, Derby, Shear and Nottingham Shere
you have to use full fat, pasteurized milk that is
(11:07):
harvested from those counties unless there's a milk shortage there,
and then milk from surrounding counties is okay too. You
cannot press the cheese into its hoops. There are six
cheese producers currently able to even attempt to label their
cheese Stilton, and I'm going to read them all out
because English nomenclature is amazing.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
All right, here we go.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
We've got Websters, Holston, Bassett, Cropwell, Bishop Tuxford and Tebbett,
Hartenting Dairy Hardington keep saying it wrong and long Clawson.
Speaker 1 (11:46):
Wow, you gave me a little cheeser that this was
going to be a very English list. It didn't disappoint
It's just.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
The englishest thing I've ever heard, and I love it
so much, every single one of those. Anyway, I seriously like,
I can't believe that we rebelled against nomenclature like this,
Like come on, like, what are we doing over here?
Speaker 1 (12:16):
This is excellent?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
So oh okay.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Anyway, those three counties, which are north of London and
like a central England area called the East Midlands, have
a good soil for grasses and the sort of temperate,
less humid than most of England climate, which contribute to
the milk qualities and the aging qualities of the cheese.
The climate matters because it provides a friendly environment for
(12:42):
the microbes that contribute to that final flavor and texture.
Because like as with all fermented products that are not
you know, hermetically sealed, it's not just the microbes that
you introduce on purpose that lend themselves to the final product.
It's also like whatever is living on the surfaces and
in the air around the cheese as it's aging. And yeah,
(13:03):
siltans are flavorful cheeses, you know, at a little bit
creamy and nutty and yeasty sweet, like like a little
bit of sweetness in there, but then with that sharp
and dusty aftertaste and that soft and velvety texture all
at the same time goes really well with both sweet
and savory flavors, making a cheese plate in my head. Okay,
(13:26):
it is traditionally associated with port wine and the Christmas holiday.
I read port because as the cheese was becoming fashionable,
the British were also at war with France, and so
like alternative wines like Portugal's port were two becoming fashionable.
(13:47):
I mean also they just sort of taste good when
you have them together. And then Christmas because all right, so,
cheese quality depends on milk quality, right, Milk quality depends
on a cow's feed and health, and rich late summer
grasses in this area help cows make excellent milk. So
(14:09):
stilton cheeses that are started in the late summer or
early fall would be ready right in time for Christmas.
I think I knew about the port association. You know,
it's again like a sweet, rich port is strong enough
in flavor and like booziness to stand up to the
sort of aggression of a stilton. But I did not
know about the Christmas association.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
So y'all, y'all rite.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
In yes, yes, please do, because I did. I ran
across that a lot of my research as well. Wow A,
what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (14:41):
I you know, cheese is a nutrient dense food. Watch
your portion sizes, but it's got a good a good
punch of fat, a good punch of protein, you know,
Drink some water, eat some vegetable, to eat some vegetable.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
Share. Let's phrase it that way today to keep you going.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Yeah, I have a well balanced cheese.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Plase, there you go. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
I did actually run into, apparently an old saying from
from the area in which this cheese is made. That goes,
drink a pot of ale, eat a scoop of stilted
every day, you will make old bones, meaning that like
you'll grow your Bone's good if.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
You follow this dietary advice.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I'm not sure what a pot of ale is, and
you should not scoop your stilton.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I appreciate your explanation because I was like, the old bones.
Is that a good thing or a bad things? I
don't know. Yeah, okay, thanks Lauren, Well sounds delicious. Nonetheless, right,
we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
We do, Okay, So as of today, a whole, like
like seven and a half kilo ish truckle of stilton
will cost you about two hundred and sixty five pounds sterling,
which is something like three hundred and forty bucks.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah, I mean seven and a half kilos of cheese
is liker.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
That's like sixteen pounds of That's like a lot of cheese.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
It's a lot of cheese. Yeah, I can go through
a lot of cheese. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Yes, research has found lots of different yeasts and bacteria
in stilton that do contribute to its texture and flavor.
This one genetic study found sixty one different lactobaxtilla species
in a finished stilton, all living in different sections of
the cheese, and none of which were the original species
(16:52):
Lactococcus lactics that was added by the cheesemaker during production.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
How has this not been a pixarmy? You know, You've
got your different bacteria living in different parts of the cheese.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
All coming together to make a delicious product. Yeah, Pixar,
call us please for about zime and other cheese related
film ideas.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yes, we're ready to go.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
Oh heck, partially because we can tell you that there
is a Stilton Cheese Rolling Festival.
Speaker 1 (17:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:31):
Most years.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
There was actually like a seven year break starting after
the twenty seventeen event. Rising costs of holding it and
in the Stilton town Center did shut it down, but
they've now moved it to the outskirts and.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
It got rolling again in four.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
The event draws about three thousand guests every year in May,
every year that it runs, I suppose, okay, So what
happened was was back in nineteen fifty nine the village
of Stilton got bypassed when the A one highway was
being built from London like all the way up to
Edinburgh and apparently in the town of Stilton, which yes,
(18:09):
is where this cheese gets its name. Four pub owners
got together. They were like, what are we going to do.
There's gonna be fewer people visiting now. We need to
drum up patronage somehow, and thought cheese rolling. Yeah, obviously again,
humans get up to all kinds of things. So teams
(18:30):
of four people compete, usually in themed costumes, to roll
the cheese along this one hundred foot course It's about
thirty meters using only their hands. There are entries for men,
women and kids. Teams plus an f one course, which
has obstacles. A couple dozen teams compete in total. In
(18:55):
a good year, winners, I understand receive a large blue
cheese and a crate of beer. Not the kids, I'm
assuming these days they roll these foot long sections of
old telegraph poles instead of real cheeses, as real cheese
(19:16):
was always getting ruined by getting covered in grit.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Yeah, yeah, but don't worry.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
They do paint the logs to look like cheese.
Speaker 1 (19:24):
Excellent, excellent news.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
The festival also includes a costume contest, the crowning of
a may King and Queen, lots of food and drink
and music, and a welly wang in, which is a
competition in which you attempt to throw a rubber Wellington
boot as far as you can welly Wangon.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Wow, listeners, please write down I this is amazing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (20:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
It's held like on the like like local football pitch,
and yeah, people get into.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It as they should. That's amazing, right, I've just don't all.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
She's just like shaking her head.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
This thing. Wow.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Yeah yep ye, well.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Okay, oh well we do have quite the history for you.
We do.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
We do no no history of welly Wangon's unfortunately, but
lots about Stilton, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsors, and we're back,
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay, so we've gone
(20:58):
over the probably accidental discovery of early cheeses. In all
of our cheese episodes, the story usually involves some combo
of dairy, some type of container like an animal, bladder,
movement within that container, temperature, and in some cases caves.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Like storing in caves. Environment and specifics around the animal
and region often come into play as well, which we
did see in Stilton. Sometimes there's a love story or
a breakup story, although those are usually never backed up
by anything, but it is a story people like to tell,
they do, they sure to. When it comes to blue
(21:43):
cheese like Stilton. According to cheese professor dot Com excellent name,
they may have originated sometime in BCE, where cheeses developed
blue veins when they were stored in caves. In the
world of blue cheese, Stilton is a bit newer, though
as usual, many have tried to lay claim to Stilton,
(22:04):
but in general historians agree it probably was created around
the seventeen hundreds and had something to do with the
bell in Stilton, Huntingdon Sheer, near modern day Cambridge. The
details are difficult to suss out, but according to sources
I read, Stilton was a market town at the time
and folks in this area were making cream cheese long
(22:28):
before the seventeenth century.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
Yeah, and I don't think that this is referring to
cream cheese like we know it, like we use that
word today, like what you'd put on bagels modernly, but
rather types of cheese being made with like creamy whole milk.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
But linguistics, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
Nope. Yeah, that's mysteries history. Part of the fun of
doing this research on the show, and it's always before refrigeration,
cheese was a great way to preserve milk. One source
I found asserted that there was evidence that cheese was
being produced in Stilton at least seventeen hundred years ago.
So I guess people might have been making cheese, is
(23:13):
what the general vibe is.
Speaker 2 (23:15):
Were there cows there, probably someone was making cheese.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah, exactly, yes, exactly. Also, Stilton was a day's journey
by carriage from London, and the bell Inn was a
nice place to stay. After the journey or while on
the journey from the north, tired travelers would try local products,
including this cheese, and then they would spread the word
about it, and as more and more people tried it,
(23:41):
demand grew. This brings us to some fun but unverifiable specifics. Yes.
One is that a cheesemaker named Francis Pollett from central
England sold her blue veined cheeses to a man named
Cooper Thornhill excellent name, who ran the bell in Paul.
(24:05):
It started essentially licensing her recipe to other cheesemakers to
meet demand, and this led to the commercialization of Stilton cheese.
The dates don't really match up, but she could have
played a role in popularizing it certainly. Another name that
comes up a lot is Lady Beaumont. In the seventeenth century,
(24:25):
she allegedly made a cream cheese for her family. It
earned the name Lady Beaumont Cheese, although it is sort
of up for grabs if she actually made it shriff
and maybe it was just named after her. Later, Thomas
Beaumont passed thrust Beyond to a nearby family and then
they started making it, and then yes spread from there.
(24:46):
A fellow named Richard Bradley wrote about Silton cheese around
this time. Quote as to the fashion of this cheese,
it is about eight inches high and about seven inches
the diameter over the top. It is so soft that
when we cut it at a year old, or about
the Christmas next after the making, one may spread it
upon bread like butter Christmas mention.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah yeah, and also approximately the size ish of those
truckles today, those truckles today, no matter who invented it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Yes, it was served at the bell Inn in Stilton,
often to traveler from London in the seventeen twenties. In
Daniel Dafoe's seventeen twenty four travel memoir, he described Stilton
cheese as quote our English parmesan from quote, a town
famous for cheese. Though from what I read, the cheese
in question wasn't quite like our modern understanding of Stilton.
(25:46):
I got confused, because I was like, are you are
we critiquing his description of it, or anyway it might
not have been quite what we would have thought of. Okay,
that iteration seemed to come about some time around seventeen ninety,
but I will say I did come across. I love
to put long quotes in here and then I cut
(26:07):
them out because like it's just me being a nerd.
I did run across a lot of quotes about Stilton
from that time. Okay, okay, it was popping off. It
was popping off. In eighteen sixty six, Edward Bradley published
a four thousand word essay titled The Hero of Stilton
and Stilton Cheese, which appeared in the New York Times
(26:28):
and alleged the cheese had never been made in Stilton day.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Okay, wow, At any rate, it was a popular cheese
and like getting towards the idea of like of these
dimensions and perhaps a certain odor, because by the Victorian era,
(26:58):
these posh pottery like Wedgewood were producing these cheese stands,
specifically for Stilton's. They would consist of two pieces, a
base and then a removable cover shaped in a tall
cylinder to accommodate an entire chuckle of Stilton. And yeah,
the cover would like keep the cheese moist through dinner
service because the cheese courses near the end, and also
(27:20):
prevent it from smelling up the room. There were also
wedge and dome shaped cheese trays like this that I
imagine we're a bit more general purpose, but anyway, Yeah,
the cylindrical ones that I've seen tend to feature a
lot of nature scenes, roses, daisies, plum blossoms, lily pads, birds,
(27:40):
stuff like that. One was shaped like a turret tower
covered in vines. I really liked that one.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
That sounds amazing. Yeah, I love this also, A chuckle
of Stilton is another phrase that is going to stick
with me after it as being very varying good. Okay.
By the nineteen tens, this cheese was popular enough that
the producers of it organized to hammer out specifics around
(28:09):
production method and definitions. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That this was a company, like the first of a
few cheesemaker co ops that worked together to improve the
quality and the quantity of production.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
All the while industrialization automated processes and move production away
from small farms, until the last farm producing Stilton closed
in nineteen thirty five. With modernization, only one town dairy
continued to make Stilton in the traditional way with unpasteurized
milk until they closed in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, there was this food poisoning outbreak that year that
was associated with Stilton cheeses.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
So yeah, in nineteen ninety two, Stilton cheesemakers came together
and decided to amend the rules so that Silton Cheese
could no longer use unpasteurized milk.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, between that outbreak, but also it was that outbreak,
but it was also to kind of appease international customers,
possibly specifically the United States, that demanded pasteurized milk cheeses.
I will say that since then, a couple of Stilton
style cheeses made with raw milk have popped back up.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
In nineteen ninety six, Stilton Cheese secured that protected designation
of Origin status or PDO.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Right, and I outlined those pedo regulations at the top.
But fun thing here, the rules actually prevent blue cheeses
made in Stilton the village from being called Stilton cheese.
The bell In makes one that they now call Bells Blue.
The town has been fighting to get the rules changed
(29:55):
for decades. Now, Wow, this is ongoing.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Cheese regulations, my friend.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
Oh, it's a harsh world, okay. But meanwhile, research into
the microbes that go into these cheeses is ongoing. So
in twenty twelve, researchers within the production area isolated this
particular wild yeast that is partially kind of largely responsible
(30:25):
for Stilton's characteristic sent called Euroea liptolytica sure i never
took Latin. The researchers hoped that in learning to control
this particular yeast, cheesemakers could make a more consistent product
in the future. And then just this year, a team
out of the University of Nottingham published a study of
(30:46):
how Penicillium rockeforti produces color and flavor as it grows,
and they discovered that the spores actually go through this
whole genetically controlled biochemical rain before arriving at their final
blue green color. And they discovered that they could stop
(31:07):
the process at different points to create new colors of
molds bores from white to yellow green, to pinkish red
to reddish brown. And their hope is that this will
lend itself to like interesting new entries in the blue
cheese market, you know, like make it more fun. Yeah. Also,
(31:28):
also in their testing, they found the people reported flavors
that they associated with the colors, flavors that were not
actually accurate to the chemical makeup of the cheese, which
was more or less the same as like standard blue
veined cheese. Humans get up stuff. Yeah, they did not
(31:49):
take photos or the finished cheeses before they ate them, though.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I both understand am very frustrated. I want to see
the Jesus. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
An article I was reading about it, and I think
on science dot org was saying that, yeah, they were
just kicking themselves over not taking photos.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
They were just too eager to eat the cheese.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
I get it, Like I said, I get it, my friends,
you'll just have to do it again.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
I guess so.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I guess so.
Speaker 1 (32:21):
I guess so. Alas that would be cool. That's really interesting, right, yeah, okay,
all right, well, listeners, as always, if you have any
experience with this, if you've got thoughts, preferences, please let
us know. But I believe that's what we have to
(32:41):
say about Stilton for now.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
It is.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:58):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with this sor.
Speaker 3 (33:07):
Was that a Wellington being thrown?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
Yeah, it was like you're doing a little like drinking
song and then throw. There was a whole gesture. Listeners.
I've promised. Oh uh huh, Joe wrote, it's such delight
when my job collides with this podcast. I teach human evolution,
(33:30):
amongst other things. So the history section of the Bone
Mirror episode got my blood pump in. Annie. Your enthusiasm
made me so happy, because I too, nerd out so
hard for those few weeks unpacking stereotypes and talking about
all the glorious complexities of our history. There are so
many questions, and of course so many revolve around subsistence.
(33:53):
When did our lineage switch from opportunistic scavenging to hunting?
What is the role of foraging, how vegetarian or not?
Or various members of our lineage? How important was fire really?
And how can we say anything definitive about all these things?
Best to stop there, because each question is practically a
lecture in its own right. Most of my exposure to
(34:15):
bone marrow is through beef stews. In the Philippines, we
have one called bulaalo. It is the definition of a
marrow stew, a simple, but rich and hearty. My dad
tends to prefer a version with more emphasis on the
meat called Nilaga. Attaches a boulalo recipe from one of
my aunt's cookbooks, the one I mentioned a few listener
(34:36):
mails ago. The recipe is fascinating because it calls for
banana hearts and tofu. I usually see bolalo with kyot
squash and BACKCHOI tossed in at the end. Definitely give
the recipe and its variations a try, and please let
your butcher cut the bones for you. As a four
roasted bone marrow. I first had it at the Purple
(34:58):
Pig in Chicago. M meat better. The restaurant is still there,
as is the menu item. Time to go back. Yes.
Also thanks to all the listeners who supported Lauren and
telling me do not try to cut the bones. This
is multiple people.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
We want Annie to keep all of her fingers.
Speaker 1 (35:23):
I love it. I really do appreciate. It's just been
very comical how many I've guns. I understand, you're right,
You're absolutely right. I love this. I as you could
hear in that episode, I did nerd out really hard
about the evolution of it. In fact, so cool of
like bone marrows possible role in our evolutionary history. I
(35:45):
recently was at the beach with some friends and this
is what I was like, you have to listen to
me talk about this. This is so cool and I'm
with you like every question and it raises all these
other questions, right, but also think, thank you so much
for including the pronunciations. I hope I didn't butcher them nonetheless,
but that's always appreciated.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Yes, oh, my goodness, so appreciated. Yeah, oh and those
sound really good.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
They sound so good. I'm on the hunt, I am.
I will if I get the bones, I will get
the butcher to cut them up. But I am yet cool.
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah, I have after that hollow, hollow episode that we did,
I have such a hecking craving for Filipino foods. So
I'm like, okay, we're going to have to do something
about this. But who yes, yes okay. EJ sent a
follow up email about the pizzas from Japan with more
details very important.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
Thank you, okay.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
So whenever I order one of these, it's for events
for homesick Americans, and it's only one or two of
these among an assortment of like sixteen to twenty four pizzas. Pepperoni,
which is somewhat rare, and pan is the most popular.
People ask me why do it? Because it's a conversation
starter and it always makes a good story. The pizzas
(37:08):
are square cuts, so you only really get a tiny
piece if you want. All right, Soakura pizza, yep, that's
a stuffed crust pizza. They proudly say. It was one
and a half times the amount of cheese, strawberry pink tapioca,
powdered sugar, and sakura shaped white chocolate. It's a dessert pizza,
so it tasted like a cousin to the strawberry Danish,
(37:30):
but with a pizza crust. The bloody Halloween pizza, all right.
The predominant flavor of this one was fire hot. Sauces
here tend to be mild, but this was legitimately hot
that you barely taste the sweet tapioca. Tapioca didn't bother
me because muchI is often thought of as a dessert,
but you can definitely have savory mochi. I like putting
muchI and cheese in my okinoma yaki, for example.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yes, that is so good.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Okay, not sure what the black crust was, squid ink
active in charcoal. Halloween pizzas are a thing with Domino's Japan.
I've never tried any of these, but they have these
Russian roulette style pizzas where one or two slices would
be spiked to be extra spicy. Okay, Pickles pizza tasted
like a hamburger without the burger part. This year they've
(38:17):
done Cheesy Volcano, which is a paper bowl under a
pizza filled with cheese sauce, and right now they're doing
Cay Food, which is a bunch of Korean favorites on
a pizza. Cheesy Volcano was easily the biggest disappointment, as
it was just that cheese sauce. It was neither weird
or novel, nor good enough. The Ky Food was good,
(38:39):
but not as big of a stretch as of pickles pizza.
My favorite pizza at Domino's is the charcoal grilled beef pizza.
You order it with an ultra thin crust. You can
just roll it up like a pinwheel sandwich and pop
it in your mouth. Tastes like a night out at
a yaki niku restaurant or in izakaya in pizza form.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
Best of all, it tastes good.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
Or even better when cold. The best part of this
no tomato pizza is the smoky taste of chargrilled beef
with mushrooms and spinach on a bed of cheese, which
is also acquired a bit of smokiness from the beef.
And they also included photos of these things. The The
(39:21):
ad for the Halloween double Roulette pizza, Yeah shows shows
clearly the two of the slices are going to set
you on fire and everyone is going to laugh at
you in your pain.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
It's excellent. It's green fire. And the person who got
the slice is doing all the work. He's carrying this
ad face he's making of absolute pain while the other
two laugh at him.
Speaker 3 (39:51):
Yeah, it's excellent.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's beautiful, beautiful, so good.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
And this charcoal grilled beef pizza yes, oh that looks
like a really high quality pizza like saucer or No.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
That's really good. Yeah, the ingredients sound really good. I
love this. I feel I feel like, first of all,
thank you EJ for following up because I did read
previous email and we had some questions. Thank you for
true yeah yeah, But I feel like, okay, listeners always
(40:28):
write in about any interesting pizzas you encountered, but I'm
going to keep an eye out because I don't know
that how Ween pizza has been something on my radar previously.
In the US, no snippers. But now I want to
know if there's has there been Halloween pizza I've been missing.
(40:50):
I've yeah, sometimes Burger King does sort of like, oh
the bun is black or something.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Yeah that is green?
Speaker 1 (41:00):
Now yeah, okay, but I want to I want to
get in on this Halloween pizza game.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
A very immediate Google search just has like, maybe we'll
shape your pizza sort of like a jackal lantern with
the pepperoni making the face.
Speaker 3 (41:17):
But that's not what you're that's not what you're looking for.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
No, I have higher standards. I I honestly, genuinely adore this.
I love this now. All of it is beautiful. It's
really good.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I definitely and and and I and I want to
double down. Mochi being a like kind of strictly sweet
thing in most of the US is incorrect. It should
because it goes so well with cheese. Again, it's that
same like kind of I'm making a I'm making a
gesture about the texture. It's it's that same kind of
(41:57):
like tacky texture that is really like weiness that's really
fun and very good. In okadomaiyaki, which is sort of
like a almost like a like an omelet kind of
situation if you've never had it.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
Yeah, well now.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
I want to go to I know, I know. Now
more cravings. Oh yeah, so so many cravings. But listeners,
for real, this is great. Please just send us any
sort of dominoes. It doesn't have to be dominoes, but
(42:33):
any kind of like promotion that's happening, any food related things, honestly.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, anything, especially if it's weird.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
We like. Yeah, we do like that. We do like
a good Halloween horror or whatever. But all of it
is good, all of it as well. Absolutely absolutely so.
Thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can Our
email is hello at saber Pod.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
We're also on social media. You can find us on.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod, and we do
hope to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way,
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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