May 15, 2023 • 25 mins
This category of cookies is twice-baked to create a crunch that lasts. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and culture behind biscotti.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese and I'm more in vocal Baum and
today we have an episode for you about piscotti.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, is there any reason you were thinking about this one?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay, this is a little bit of a long way around,
but so, so Mother's Day is coming up, and so
I was thinking about, like like all right, like like,
what are some dishes that remind me of mother figures
in my life? And my Jewish grandmother, Gloria was kind
of famous around the family for making mandelbrote, Mandelbrote being
(00:45):
a very biscotti like it's German for almond bread and
it's it's a very biscotti like cookie and uh and
so yeah, so I was kind of looking into mandelbrut
and I was like, yeah, we should just do biscotti.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
And so here we are, there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
We go okay, yeah, so so yeah, so this is
a type of cookie that I have deep nostalgia for.
She made, oh just just just really good ones and
would make them these huge batches, which is kind of
what you do when you're making them. And uh, and
like people would like like relatives would like low key
fight over like who got a bag from the batch
(01:20):
and like like if they were running low, like Gloria,
are you going to make more? And it was sort
of a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, I love it. I love it when that happens
where there's like a dish, yeah, someone makes Oh I
only get it this one time. I hope I can
get secure my stash. Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't have
too much experience with piscotti.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, yeah, never like at a cafe, like sitting there
with an espresso, like like having a piscatti.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Nah, I mean like maybe once. Uh, I've had it, Like,
I've definitely had it. I just don't have that much
experience with it. It does. It reminds we did an
episode on Madeleins Madeleines. Sure, yeah, I had that twinge
in the pronunciation there that I did not do correctly,
(02:16):
But so that that kind of reminds me of this one.
And I mean, yeah, for better or worse, most of
my memories with the Scotti are cafes, and Starbucks being
one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Sure, that's a it's a It's a large chain of
cafes in the United States and elsewhere, So that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Tracks it does, it does, dude, But I know people
are really really fond of them, and just I loved
reading about all the flavors in this one. It was fun.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I have I have a very
narrow experience of piscotti, and in general, it's like mostly
the like pure almond crunchy ki like the mondol brit
that I grew up with, but but also like maybe
a little bit of Annis in there, maybe maybe some
chocolate dipping action going on. But yeah, I tend to like,
(03:13):
I tend to not order them, especially if they're prepackaged
at at a cafe kind of situation, which is mostly
where I do see them, because I'm like, I'm gonna
be disappointed in this. It's not gonna be my grandma's.
I'm gonna be mad. I've never tried to make her recipe.
I she like held off on giving it to me
for really an insultingly long time.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, so, and I did see a lot of recipes
as I was doing this reading that I was like, oh,
that make that would probably about what that is.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah. So anyway, well maybe one day maybe one day,
maybe maybe maybe, But in the meantime, I guess that
brings us to our question. Sure, biscottie. What are they?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, piscotti, as we are using the word in American English,
are a type of cookie that is twice baked, first
in a loaf and then in like thick crescent shaped slices,
making it a crunchy cookie treat. They are typically lightly
sweetened and flavored and studded with nuts like almonds, pistachios,
or sesame, maybe a little bit of vanilla thrown in there.
(04:25):
They can contain other mixins like chocolate chips or dried
fruit or cocoa powder, or maybe partially dipped in chocolate
or like spangled with icing something like that. Ideally that
the dough isn't really crispy like toast, but more like
crunchy like a good granola, all right, Like like firm
enough to stand up to being dunked in coffee or
(04:47):
sweet wine. But when you chew it, it's it's rich
and like almost melty, with contrasting buttery crunch from the nuts.
Maybe some crisp around the edges, sure, but yeah, it's
like it's like it's like if a digestive biscuit wanted
you to have a better time. If if y'all aren't
(05:09):
familiar with digestive biscuits. Picture like a like a kind
of bland Graham cracker. Mm. Yeah, okay, biscottis like it's
it's firm but comforting, like a like a good grandmama.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh well there you go. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
The the word the word biscotti comes from the roots
uh twice cookedcoatti.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what you're looking to do is to basically bake
like one big cookie and then slice that into strips
and bake those those separate mini cookies again to like
really firm them up and draw out the moisture. Traditionally,
you're using limited to zero butter or oil to make
these cookies. That the fat is going to come from
(06:00):
the addition of eggs and egg yolks. And this explains
how you can get this like rich, dense, crunchy but
not crispy crumb to the cookies. These days, a little
bit of leavener like baking powder is added for a
little bit more lyft. Of course, though there are lots
of different riffs on this recipe plenty of parallel types
(06:21):
of cookies out there in the world. Many do use
some kind of vegetable oil or butter to create like
a like a softer or more tender or more crumbly
or crispier texture, just depending on what you're going for.
Fun linguistic confusion in this one. From what I understand,
in like modern Italian biscoto being the singular or biscotti
(06:43):
is like a more generic term for any type of cookie,
similar to how you get biscuit in British English. Yeah,
and also an Italian biscoto appears in phrases that describe
savory baked goods, like like crackers or twice baked breads.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So uh, if.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You are looking for what we Americans call biscotti in
some kind of like Italian language circumstance, the term the
term for these cookies is going to be cantucci plural
or cantuccio singular, or or maybe you're even going to
look for the diminutive canduccini meaning like like little little cantucci. Yeah, uh,
(07:25):
canto literally meaning corner, but in this case indicating like
like a crust or like like a little bit of bread. Yeah,
that kind of that kind of competation, so yeah, yeah canucci.
And there are all kinds of flavorings that can go
into these things a whole or perhaps rough chopped almonds
(07:45):
and almond extract is perhaps the most traditional, but pistachio,
pine nuts, and sesame are also common. Or other stuff
like hazelnuts or walnuts, or citrus juice or zest raisins
or chopped dried fruit like apricots or or or or
chocolate bits or coconut spices like ginger or annis or
(08:09):
fennel or cinnamon or allspice, vanilla or cocoa powder, or
coffee or sweet wine. I don't know, toffee chips, peanut
butter chips, fun fetti.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Whoa, that's cordless.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, if you can put it in a cookie,
then go for it. Okay, yeah, all right. They are
often served alongside, uh, like like an after dinner coffee
drink or tea, or a dessert wine like vincano like
meant to be dipped into that liquid. They're also real
good for crumbling on top of other desserts or for
(08:48):
like like layering into a soaked type dessert like a
like a trifle. Yeah okay, yeah, and I will say
that that in American usage, biscotti is also a flavor
now and and a color, so right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, I've seen I've seen candy. That's biscotti flavored. That's
weird that my eyebrow arch. Yeah interesting? All right, Well
what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Uh, it depends on how you make them. But these
treats can have like a decent punch of protein and
good fats from the nuts, and they're often not as
sugary or fatty as other types of cookies. It's still
still a treat, you know. But treats are nice.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yes, yes, big fans of treats. We have a
couple of numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Okay, I couldn't like super corroborate this data, but but
apparently the canucci market in Tuscany, where many of the
traditions around this cookie originated, the market there is worth
over thirty million euros a year. Oh risk brisk cookie market.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And according to the same source, about sixty three percent
of Kentucci biscotti consumption takes place in Italy.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh well, I would love for listeners to write in
about this. Yeah, oh yeah, the culture of the scotti consumption.
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And if you have more linguistic notes, I would love
I would love to hear them. Yeah, this is all
hearsay on my part. I mean technically, I guess everything
that we ever report is here, say, but some of
it is.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's read say yeah, it's yes, yes, research say yes.
So we're counting on you as always, And if you've
got a favorite like flavor recipe, that'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yes, But so we do have quite the history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So Yes, things like cookies, breads, and cakes, though not
as soft and fluffy as we know them today, go
way way back. We've talked about them in several episodes.
I feel like I can't remember which one it was,
but I know we've talked about an almonds based like
almond flour based dessert already.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, recently. And this isn't usually almond flour. This is
usually wheat flour with added almonds.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That might be one of my brain is so like,
I feel like we've talked about this. It's like that
like every it is it is there. Yeah, yes, but okay,
A big part of this particular history comes down to yeah,
that kind of baking things twice so that they will
(12:12):
keep Some sources suggest that the ancient Romans figured that
out that twice making bread would make it last longer.
This is sort of one of those things where I
again feel like a bunch of people.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Probably yeah, yeah, like I, you know, even if we
might not have known for a couple thousand years that
the reason is that when you limit moisture, that limits
the ability of microbes to grow in a medium like
your bread. So so you might want to yeah, so
doing that can preserve it for a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But yeah, yes, yes, but that was that was a
big piece of this, was that it kept longer. So
the story goes that the first piscatti were first made
in the Tushany city of Prato in the fourteenth century,
and they were often called piscati di Prato, and they
were primarily made of almonds because almonds grew very well
(13:07):
in that region.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
They were also one of the products that was starting
to use refined sugar, which was beginning to grow in
availability and popularity in Europe at the time.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Right, And as mentioned, they were prized at this point
because of the way they were baked. It made them
somewhat resistant to mold. It also made them pretty hard
and sturdy, so that they could travel well. They could
last on longer journeys, and even just for regular people
not on long journeys, like they just lasted longer. Yeah,
(13:39):
and that's it cracks me up how often sailors come
over from these stories. But it was like a big thing.
People had to figure out, how can we make this
food last? Yeah, how do we see the sailor? How
do we write? Yeah? Exactly and again hearsay, read say research.
Soon sailors came to prefer these sturdy biscuits, and several
(14:00):
sources reported that they went on to inspire other similar things,
like British hardtack, which was a hard biscuit made with salt,
flour and water and then baked twice in Germany's twice
baked sweetbread skybeck. I hope I'm not butchering that, yes,
twice baked. Yes. And while that was going on, biscotti
(14:22):
was being adapted throughout Italy using ingredients like pistaccio and sesames,
just whatever was around. In some regions, people did give
biscati a different name, which adds to the confusion.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, oh yeah, yes, we love it always. By the
mid fifteen hundreds or so, biscotti I think minus almonds
became popular in the Medici court, and then sometime in
the sixteen hundred's ish fancier types of English trifles were
being made with piscotti type cookies in sherry like wine
(15:01):
and then topped with custard and syllabub which is a
wine curdled cream, and maybe other stuff like sugar and
spices and citrus zest. Back to that linguistic confusion in Italian,
the word canuccio was in use by like the sixteen
nineties to refer to pretty much what we understand this
product to be today, yes.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And then more confusion. Okay. So the first known written
recipe for piscatti was the recipe hundreds of years old,
discovered in the eighteenth century, but it's often written about
as though like the recipe was lost centuries ago when
rediscovered like around now, so like it was lost toys.
(15:47):
But after this rediscovery, Italian started adding all kinds of
ingredients and flavors to this piscatti.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
By the mid eighteen hundreds, piscotti had become like a
cultural symbol again in Italy. They were part of an
Italian display at the eighteen sixty seven Paris Expo, and
then moving into the nineteen hundreds, that's when Tuscany in
particular started really like re leaning into the almond thing
(16:18):
as an ingredient, right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And then jumping ahead the nineteen nineties is when biscanti
started to really find a place in the heart of Americans.
It really coincided with the growing American taste for gourmet
coffee cafes and the desire to have something to dunk
into that gourmet coffee. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, and the I mean the the like Italian ness
of espresso and all of that kind of like cultural
borrowing an adaptation that was going on at that time.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Gourmet magazine declared biscatti the cookie of the nineties as
of nineteen ninety two, And there was this really great
lead in the Washington Post at the time. The writer said,
in the beginning, there were donuts to compliment coffee. Next
came muffins, huge muffins. Then there was a brief flurry
(17:18):
of scoones. Now from Italy comes piscotti, a flurry of
sco brief flurry of very brief.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh my gosh, that is so funny.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
You've got a good, You've got a good nineteen nineties.
I do quote about piscotti too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yes, I was not expecting to find this one, and
I just had to include it. It does include some
pronunciations that I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Do my best. Okay, okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, all right, so here we go with this quote
from nineteen ninety three from the New York Times, and
it was specifically about a biscotti variation called the San
Martino biscatti quote. The author of Il Folklore Siciliano wrote
that piscatti di San Martino were originally falc in shape
and descended from the faust shaped pocaccier carried in the
(18:14):
Greek dominated Sicilian town of Enna during the Thesmaphoria, a
fertility festival in honor of Demeter. These Sicilian cookies were
originally in a reverent reminder of the member of San Martino.
Missus Field says, at some point over the centuries, the
biscatti took on a female form. As for the horns,
(18:36):
they may be reminders, missus Field says, of the horns
that rambunctious boys would paint on deserving houses during Saint
Martin's revelries on the Italian mainland. Now that took a
lot of turns, didn't it that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Certainly, I'm just.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
An innocent food podcaster. And then all.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And then the bunch of yeah left turn at sicily
for sure in that one. Uh, I mean cool, I
mean yeah, you know, it's it's just funny things look
like things. And we have talked many times before about
how desserts, especially during festivals especially wind up being interestingly shaped.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
They sure do. Sure, Oh heck, I'm always like exactly
how peg are we? Oh heck?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Oh dear Well, anyway, in twenty eleven, a group of
Tuscan cantucci producers formed up an association and started to
campaign to receive like a protected geographic indication for almond biscotti.
(20:00):
They finally succeeded in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, well, good for them, Yeah, good for them. Yeah,
this has been quite the journey that the Scottie the
Scottie story. But I'm sure you listeners have some thoughts
about this one, so.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I really want to hear in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
If this is like also a nostalgic product for you
in some way, or some similar cookie is, then please
do write in.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yes please do. But in the meantime that is what
we have to say about the Scotti from now.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It is. We do have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
We're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with listen. Oh yeah, nostalgic Wiscotti book.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Who speaking of Christine, wrote, I just listened to your
episode on juice boxes in Oh the nostalgia. They were
a huge part of my childhood in Australia in the
eighties and nineties as well. They have been a staple
in Australian lunchboxes since then, particularly as you can freeze
them so you get an icebrick. My fondest recollections are
the arguments over what they should be called at National
(21:28):
Girl Guide events. It was always a shock to discover
other states called them different names. In New South Wales,
for instance, we called them papas. Victorians and Tasmanians called
them primas. Queenslanders called them Goldies after Golden Circle the manufacturer,
while Western and South Australians were very boring and tended
to call them Jews cartans. I have it on good
(21:50):
authority that the arguments continue at Guide and Scout events.
I love it. I love it. It's true like little
linguis stick differences.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, that really perpetuates, and like people look at you
so weird.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yes, so strange, like what are you talking about? I
love it. I love how juice cartons? Is this one?
That's yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean, why not it?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, very smart to use them as a ice block.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh yeah, right? Heck, jan, or have we been pronouncing
this wrong the whole time? Is it? Young? You let
us know? Anyway, he wrote back in twenty thirteen, my
husband and I made our first trek to Disney World.
Our travel agent got us a great rate at the
Animal Kingdom Lodge, so we grabbed it. Downstairs in the
(22:44):
jumbo house portion of a lodge, there is a fantastic
place called Boma. It's a Moroccan Tanjean restaurant, and we
had no idea it was there, because no one told
us during our entire stay, and it's basically hidden. The
night before we were to leave, we found it. This
place is one. It's an all you care to eat
buffet of glorious food of African origin. Remind me to
(23:05):
send you their not encrusted salmon recipe. It's wonderful. Anyway,
we fell in love with the food from this restaurant
so much that we bought a book called Easy Tangein.
When we got back home, we just happened to run
across it at us or La Tub. Yes, this is
the letter where I'm dropping all kinds of free advertising
from these places because they're amazing. My husband and I
(23:26):
basically cooked tangin and Moroccan food for months. This book
has the following Harisa recipe, which I live by and attached. Yes,
is an amazing sounding Harrisa recipe.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes, yes, as Hyss and I have been to this
restaurant many times. It is one of my favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Is that the one that you brought me and our
buddy Sarah to you that one time?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I believe so. I think so because it's a must.
Hally Frye a friend of the show turned me onto
it and was like, you got to go for brunch
and you got to get the watermelon Ryan salad, and
of course you know everything about this, so I do,
ye did, And now yeah, it's a delicious must so
(24:10):
much food though, oh my god, it's an endeavor.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think we were there for dinner, and I don't
think it was a buffe. I don't think we did
a buffet, but I remember all the food that we
had in the parks actually being very good, which is
weird to me because like my experience as a child
was not that. Right.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, but yeah, hard same. But yeah,
it is delicious, and this cookbook sounds delicious, and I
want to make all of these things.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've I've recently been going
back through our friend Halla Hassan's book in Bebie's Kitchen
that we talked with her on the show about and
doing some recipes from that, and they're all so good. Yeah,
so good. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Us, Well, thanks for all the recommendations, yes, and thanks
to both of these listeners for writing. If you would
like to write to us, you can. Our email is
hello at sabrepod dot com. But we are also on
social media.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from My
Heart Radio you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie Reese and I'm more in vocal Baum and
today we have an episode for you about piscotti.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, is there any reason you were thinking about this one?
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Okay, this is a little bit of a long way around,
but so, so Mother's Day is coming up, and so
I was thinking about, like like all right, like like,
what are some dishes that remind me of mother figures
in my life? And my Jewish grandmother, Gloria was kind
of famous around the family for making mandelbrote, Mandelbrote being
(00:45):
a very biscotti like it's German for almond bread and
it's it's a very biscotti like cookie and uh and
so yeah, so I was kind of looking into mandelbrut
and I was like, yeah, we should just do biscotti.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
And so here we are, there.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
We go okay, yeah, so so yeah, so this is
a type of cookie that I have deep nostalgia for.
She made, oh just just just really good ones and
would make them these huge batches, which is kind of
what you do when you're making them. And uh, and
like people would like like relatives would like low key
fight over like who got a bag from the batch
(01:20):
and like like if they were running low, like Gloria,
are you going to make more? And it was sort
of a whole thing.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Yeah, I love it. I love it when that happens
where there's like a dish, yeah, someone makes Oh I
only get it this one time. I hope I can
get secure my stash. Yeah yeah, yeah. I don't have
too much experience with piscotti.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, yeah, never like at a cafe, like sitting there
with an espresso, like like having a piscatti.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Nah, I mean like maybe once. Uh, I've had it, Like,
I've definitely had it. I just don't have that much
experience with it. It does. It reminds we did an
episode on Madeleins Madeleines. Sure, yeah, I had that twinge
in the pronunciation there that I did not do correctly,
(02:16):
But so that that kind of reminds me of this one.
And I mean, yeah, for better or worse, most of
my memories with the Scotti are cafes, and Starbucks being
one of them.
Speaker 2 (02:31):
Sure, that's a it's a It's a large chain of
cafes in the United States and elsewhere, So that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Tracks it does, it does, dude, But I know people
are really really fond of them, and just I loved
reading about all the flavors in this one. It was fun.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I have I have a very
narrow experience of piscotti, and in general, it's like mostly
the like pure almond crunchy ki like the mondol brit
that I grew up with, but but also like maybe
a little bit of Annis in there, maybe maybe some
chocolate dipping action going on. But yeah, I tend to like,
(03:13):
I tend to not order them, especially if they're prepackaged
at at a cafe kind of situation, which is mostly
where I do see them, because I'm like, I'm gonna
be disappointed in this. It's not gonna be my grandma's.
I'm gonna be mad. I've never tried to make her recipe.
I she like held off on giving it to me
for really an insultingly long time.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:38):
Yeah, so, and I did see a lot of recipes
as I was doing this reading that I was like, oh,
that make that would probably about what that is.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Yeah. So anyway, well maybe one day maybe one day,
maybe maybe maybe, But in the meantime, I guess that
brings us to our question. Sure, biscottie. What are they?
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well, piscotti, as we are using the word in American English,
are a type of cookie that is twice baked, first
in a loaf and then in like thick crescent shaped slices,
making it a crunchy cookie treat. They are typically lightly
sweetened and flavored and studded with nuts like almonds, pistachios,
or sesame, maybe a little bit of vanilla thrown in there.
(04:25):
They can contain other mixins like chocolate chips or dried
fruit or cocoa powder, or maybe partially dipped in chocolate
or like spangled with icing something like that. Ideally that
the dough isn't really crispy like toast, but more like
crunchy like a good granola, all right, Like like firm
enough to stand up to being dunked in coffee or
(04:47):
sweet wine. But when you chew it, it's it's rich
and like almost melty, with contrasting buttery crunch from the nuts.
Maybe some crisp around the edges, sure, but yeah, it's
like it's like it's like if a digestive biscuit wanted
you to have a better time. If if y'all aren't
(05:09):
familiar with digestive biscuits. Picture like a like a kind
of bland Graham cracker. Mm. Yeah, okay, biscottis like it's
it's firm but comforting, like a like a good grandmama.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Oh well there you go. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
The the word the word biscotti comes from the roots
uh twice cookedcoatti.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And what you're looking to do is to basically bake
like one big cookie and then slice that into strips
and bake those those separate mini cookies again to like
really firm them up and draw out the moisture. Traditionally,
you're using limited to zero butter or oil to make
these cookies. That the fat is going to come from
(06:00):
the addition of eggs and egg yolks. And this explains
how you can get this like rich, dense, crunchy but
not crispy crumb to the cookies. These days, a little
bit of leavener like baking powder is added for a
little bit more lyft. Of course, though there are lots
of different riffs on this recipe plenty of parallel types
(06:21):
of cookies out there in the world. Many do use
some kind of vegetable oil or butter to create like
a like a softer or more tender or more crumbly
or crispier texture, just depending on what you're going for.
Fun linguistic confusion in this one. From what I understand,
in like modern Italian biscoto being the singular or biscotti
(06:43):
is like a more generic term for any type of cookie,
similar to how you get biscuit in British English. Yeah,
and also an Italian biscoto appears in phrases that describe
savory baked goods, like like crackers or twice baked breads.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
So uh, if.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
You are looking for what we Americans call biscotti in
some kind of like Italian language circumstance, the term the
term for these cookies is going to be cantucci plural
or cantuccio singular, or or maybe you're even going to
look for the diminutive canduccini meaning like like little little cantucci. Yeah, uh,
(07:25):
canto literally meaning corner, but in this case indicating like
like a crust or like like a little bit of bread. Yeah,
that kind of that kind of competation, so yeah, yeah canucci.
And there are all kinds of flavorings that can go
into these things a whole or perhaps rough chopped almonds
(07:45):
and almond extract is perhaps the most traditional, but pistachio,
pine nuts, and sesame are also common. Or other stuff
like hazelnuts or walnuts, or citrus juice or zest raisins
or chopped dried fruit like apricots or or or or
chocolate bits or coconut spices like ginger or annis or
(08:09):
fennel or cinnamon or allspice, vanilla or cocoa powder, or
coffee or sweet wine. I don't know, toffee chips, peanut
butter chips, fun fetti.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Whoa, that's cordless.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
I mean, if you can put it in a cookie,
then go for it. Okay, yeah, all right. They are
often served alongside, uh, like like an after dinner coffee
drink or tea, or a dessert wine like vincano like
meant to be dipped into that liquid. They're also real
good for crumbling on top of other desserts or for
(08:48):
like like layering into a soaked type dessert like a
like a trifle. Yeah okay, yeah, and I will say
that that in American usage, biscotti is also a flavor
now and and a color, so right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Yeah, I've seen I've seen candy. That's biscotti flavored. That's
weird that my eyebrow arch. Yeah interesting? All right, Well
what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Uh, it depends on how you make them. But these
treats can have like a decent punch of protein and
good fats from the nuts, and they're often not as
sugary or fatty as other types of cookies. It's still
still a treat, you know. But treats are nice.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, yes, yes, big fans of treats. We have a
couple of numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Okay, I couldn't like super corroborate this data, but but
apparently the canucci market in Tuscany, where many of the
traditions around this cookie originated, the market there is worth
over thirty million euros a year. Oh risk brisk cookie market.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Love it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
And according to the same source, about sixty three percent
of Kentucci biscotti consumption takes place in Italy.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Oh well, I would love for listeners to write in
about this. Yeah, oh yeah, the culture of the scotti consumption.
Oh yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
And if you have more linguistic notes, I would love
I would love to hear them. Yeah, this is all
hearsay on my part. I mean technically, I guess everything
that we ever report is here, say, but some of
it is.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's read say yeah, it's yes, yes, research say yes.
So we're counting on you as always, And if you've
got a favorite like flavor recipe, that'd be cool.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
Yes, But so we do have quite the history for you.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank
you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
So Yes, things like cookies, breads, and cakes, though not
as soft and fluffy as we know them today, go
way way back. We've talked about them in several episodes.
I feel like I can't remember which one it was,
but I know we've talked about an almonds based like
almond flour based dessert already.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Yeah, recently. And this isn't usually almond flour. This is
usually wheat flour with added almonds.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Hmmm.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
That might be one of my brain is so like,
I feel like we've talked about this. It's like that
like every it is it is there. Yeah, yes, but okay,
A big part of this particular history comes down to yeah,
that kind of baking things twice so that they will
(12:12):
keep Some sources suggest that the ancient Romans figured that
out that twice making bread would make it last longer.
This is sort of one of those things where I
again feel like a bunch of people.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Probably yeah, yeah, like I, you know, even if we
might not have known for a couple thousand years that
the reason is that when you limit moisture, that limits
the ability of microbes to grow in a medium like
your bread. So so you might want to yeah, so
doing that can preserve it for a little bit longer.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
But yeah, yes, yes, but that was that was a
big piece of this, was that it kept longer. So
the story goes that the first piscatti were first made
in the Tushany city of Prato in the fourteenth century,
and they were often called piscati di Prato, and they
were primarily made of almonds because almonds grew very well
(13:07):
in that region.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
They were also one of the products that was starting
to use refined sugar, which was beginning to grow in
availability and popularity in Europe at the time.
Speaker 1 (13:18):
Right, And as mentioned, they were prized at this point
because of the way they were baked. It made them
somewhat resistant to mold. It also made them pretty hard
and sturdy, so that they could travel well. They could
last on longer journeys, and even just for regular people
not on long journeys, like they just lasted longer. Yeah,
(13:39):
and that's it cracks me up how often sailors come
over from these stories. But it was like a big thing.
People had to figure out, how can we make this
food last? Yeah, how do we see the sailor? How
do we write? Yeah? Exactly and again hearsay, read say research.
Soon sailors came to prefer these sturdy biscuits, and several
(14:00):
sources reported that they went on to inspire other similar things,
like British hardtack, which was a hard biscuit made with salt,
flour and water and then baked twice in Germany's twice
baked sweetbread skybeck. I hope I'm not butchering that, yes,
twice baked. Yes. And while that was going on, biscotti
(14:22):
was being adapted throughout Italy using ingredients like pistaccio and sesames,
just whatever was around. In some regions, people did give
biscati a different name, which adds to the confusion.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Yeah, oh yeah, yes, we love it always. By the
mid fifteen hundreds or so, biscotti I think minus almonds
became popular in the Medici court, and then sometime in
the sixteen hundred's ish fancier types of English trifles were
being made with piscotti type cookies in sherry like wine
(15:01):
and then topped with custard and syllabub which is a
wine curdled cream, and maybe other stuff like sugar and
spices and citrus zest. Back to that linguistic confusion in Italian,
the word canuccio was in use by like the sixteen
nineties to refer to pretty much what we understand this
product to be today, yes.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And then more confusion. Okay. So the first known written
recipe for piscatti was the recipe hundreds of years old,
discovered in the eighteenth century, but it's often written about
as though like the recipe was lost centuries ago when
rediscovered like around now, so like it was lost toys.
(15:47):
But after this rediscovery, Italian started adding all kinds of
ingredients and flavors to this piscatti.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
By the mid eighteen hundreds, piscotti had become like a
cultural symbol again in Italy. They were part of an
Italian display at the eighteen sixty seven Paris Expo, and
then moving into the nineteen hundreds, that's when Tuscany in
particular started really like re leaning into the almond thing
(16:18):
as an ingredient, right.
Speaker 1 (16:21):
And then jumping ahead the nineteen nineties is when biscanti
started to really find a place in the heart of Americans.
It really coincided with the growing American taste for gourmet
coffee cafes and the desire to have something to dunk
into that gourmet coffee. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Yeah, and the I mean the the like Italian ness
of espresso and all of that kind of like cultural
borrowing an adaptation that was going on at that time.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Gourmet magazine declared biscatti the cookie of the nineties as
of nineteen ninety two, And there was this really great
lead in the Washington Post at the time. The writer said,
in the beginning, there were donuts to compliment coffee. Next
came muffins, huge muffins. Then there was a brief flurry
(17:18):
of scoones. Now from Italy comes piscotti, a flurry of
sco brief flurry of very brief.
Speaker 1 (17:29):
Oh my gosh, that is so funny.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
You've got a good, You've got a good nineteen nineties.
I do quote about piscotti too.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yes, I was not expecting to find this one, and
I just had to include it. It does include some
pronunciations that I'm gonna.
Speaker 2 (17:48):
Do my best. Okay, okay, here we go.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
Yes, all right, so here we go with this quote
from nineteen ninety three from the New York Times, and
it was specifically about a biscotti variation called the San
Martino biscatti quote. The author of Il Folklore Siciliano wrote
that piscatti di San Martino were originally falc in shape
and descended from the faust shaped pocaccier carried in the
(18:14):
Greek dominated Sicilian town of Enna during the Thesmaphoria, a
fertility festival in honor of Demeter. These Sicilian cookies were
originally in a reverent reminder of the member of San Martino.
Missus Field says, at some point over the centuries, the
biscatti took on a female form. As for the horns,
(18:36):
they may be reminders, missus Field says, of the horns
that rambunctious boys would paint on deserving houses during Saint
Martin's revelries on the Italian mainland. Now that took a
lot of turns, didn't it that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Certainly, I'm just.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
An innocent food podcaster. And then all.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And then the bunch of yeah left turn at sicily
for sure in that one. Uh, I mean cool, I
mean yeah, you know, it's it's just funny things look
like things. And we have talked many times before about
how desserts, especially during festivals especially wind up being interestingly shaped.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
They sure do. Sure, Oh heck, I'm always like exactly
how peg are we? Oh heck?
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Oh dear Well, anyway, in twenty eleven, a group of
Tuscan cantucci producers formed up an association and started to
campaign to receive like a protected geographic indication for almond biscotti.
(20:00):
They finally succeeded in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, well, good for them, Yeah, good for them. Yeah,
this has been quite the journey that the Scottie the
Scottie story. But I'm sure you listeners have some thoughts
about this one, so.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I really want to hear in yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
If this is like also a nostalgic product for you
in some way, or some similar cookie is, then please
do write in.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Yes please do. But in the meantime that is what
we have to say about the Scotti from now.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
It is. We do have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
We're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with listen. Oh yeah, nostalgic Wiscotti book.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Who speaking of Christine, wrote, I just listened to your
episode on juice boxes in Oh the nostalgia. They were
a huge part of my childhood in Australia in the
eighties and nineties as well. They have been a staple
in Australian lunchboxes since then, particularly as you can freeze
them so you get an icebrick. My fondest recollections are
the arguments over what they should be called at National
(21:28):
Girl Guide events. It was always a shock to discover
other states called them different names. In New South Wales,
for instance, we called them papas. Victorians and Tasmanians called
them primas. Queenslanders called them Goldies after Golden Circle the manufacturer,
while Western and South Australians were very boring and tended
to call them Jews cartans. I have it on good
(21:50):
authority that the arguments continue at Guide and Scout events.
I love it. I love it. It's true like little
linguis stick differences.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, that really perpetuates, and like people look at you
so weird.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Yes, so strange, like what are you talking about? I
love it. I love how juice cartons? Is this one?
That's yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I mean, why not it?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Yeah, very smart to use them as a ice block.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh yeah, right? Heck, jan, or have we been pronouncing
this wrong the whole time? Is it? Young? You let
us know? Anyway, he wrote back in twenty thirteen, my
husband and I made our first trek to Disney World.
Our travel agent got us a great rate at the
Animal Kingdom Lodge, so we grabbed it. Downstairs in the
(22:44):
jumbo house portion of a lodge, there is a fantastic
place called Boma. It's a Moroccan Tanjean restaurant, and we
had no idea it was there, because no one told
us during our entire stay, and it's basically hidden. The
night before we were to leave, we found it. This
place is one. It's an all you care to eat
buffet of glorious food of African origin. Remind me to
(23:05):
send you their not encrusted salmon recipe. It's wonderful. Anyway,
we fell in love with the food from this restaurant
so much that we bought a book called Easy Tangein.
When we got back home, we just happened to run
across it at us or La Tub. Yes, this is
the letter where I'm dropping all kinds of free advertising
from these places because they're amazing. My husband and I
(23:26):
basically cooked tangin and Moroccan food for months. This book
has the following Harisa recipe, which I live by and attached. Yes,
is an amazing sounding Harrisa recipe.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Yes, yes, as Hyss and I have been to this
restaurant many times. It is one of my favorites as well.
Speaker 2 (23:46):
Is that the one that you brought me and our
buddy Sarah to you that one time?
Speaker 1 (23:50):
I believe so. I think so because it's a must.
Hally Frye a friend of the show turned me onto
it and was like, you got to go for brunch
and you got to get the watermelon Ryan salad, and
of course you know everything about this, so I do,
ye did, And now yeah, it's a delicious must so
(24:10):
much food though, oh my god, it's an endeavor.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I think we were there for dinner, and I don't
think it was a buffe. I don't think we did
a buffet, but I remember all the food that we
had in the parks actually being very good, which is
weird to me because like my experience as a child
was not that. Right.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, but yeah, hard same. But yeah,
it is delicious, and this cookbook sounds delicious, and I
want to make all of these things.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Oh oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've I've recently been going
back through our friend Halla Hassan's book in Bebie's Kitchen
that we talked with her on the show about and
doing some recipes from that, and they're all so good. Yeah,
so good. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Us, Well, thanks for all the recommendations, yes, and thanks
to both of these listeners for writing. If you would
like to write to us, you can. Our email is
hello at sabrepod dot com. But we are also on
social media.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. Four more podcasts from My
Heart Radio you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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