December 30, 2020 • 37 mins
This seasoning paste (and soup ingredient) owes its complex flavors to a double fermentation of grains and legumes. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and science of miso.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to favor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reef and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about mi So. Yes, indeed, which was another Lauren's suggestion. Yeah,
this was during during the very height of my initial
pre winter soup kick uh. And I was going like
(00:28):
soup soup uh and so yeah yeah, I was like,
what's up with me, So let's let's look into it.
Yeah yeah. And I I love mi So and I
love me so soup. Um. It was especially in college.
It was a really big comfort food for me. Um.
(00:51):
I definitely had a lot in Japan. I feel like
it just came with meals, like just a small little
cup almost every meal miso soup. And right before, as
I said, I'm pretty sure I have finished grocery shopping
for and right before we did this episode, and I
(01:12):
found well, no, through the help of a friend, I
found white miss paste and I've been using it a lot.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's really good in like basically everything.
It's like we said in our Goci Young episode, which
is related fermentational e um uh. Yeah, it's it's just like,
(01:34):
oh does this does this dish need something like does
Boop does boops and Miso in there and it's probably
gonna make it boop extra delicious. Yeah, And we went
through a kind of cold snap for Georgia uh and
listeners of the show. No, I'm very cold. I'm already
like naturally cold. Yeah. Yeah. If I show up to
(01:54):
a recording and like a T shirt with maybe like
a light flannel like Annie has, like her parka, and
some like fingerless gloves, and like maybe a hat like
a toboggan, you know, I'm not I'm not over exaggerating.
This is like literally what Annie has showed. And I
(02:15):
got so chilled in my apartment and I was like
the most comical wrapped in like three blankets and the
hat in the scarf and gloves and all this stuff,
and I was just shaking. And I made a mug
of miso soup and it was so good. Yeah. Yeah,
And we did back when we could go out and
(02:37):
do things. We had that cochy mold at home and
infant all right, they just gave us little little shots
off of there, off of their cold cochy they just
like poured off. They were like we were like, I
don't know what kind of weird stuff do you have
that you can that you can let us eat? And
they were like, do you want to try some mold juice?
I was like, yes, yes, is it tasty? They were
(02:57):
like I don't know, and we're like yeah, so sor
Food podcast duty to do this. Also the sweetbreads, the
sweet Oh that's right, because we were there for the
sweetbreads video. Oh gosh, it was so they were amazing.
Like doing this episode, I remembered that and was like, Oh,
(03:20):
I miss going out to mildly fancy restaurants and having
things like sweetbreads made for me by very talented chefs
so intensely I do. I do order out and pick
things up when I can, but holy heck, I did,
as you know because I sent you a very excited text.
(03:41):
I made oxtail stew all right, how did how to Go?
It's no exaggeration. Is one of the best things I've
ever made. Good. It was so good. Isn't it just
texture just so just so delectable? Yes, yes it was.
I've been looking ever since we did that episode, and
(04:03):
I just I haven't been able to find them. But
my last grocery grocery trip, they had him out and
I was like this is a son and I forgot
my phone so I couldn't look up like what ingredients
I would need to make anything else. But I just
happened to have enough stuff to like sub out your
work and it was so good. I'm so happy that
(04:26):
it worked out. Yeah, me too, Me too. I hope
I can make it again. Um, but for this episode, yes,
we have done an episode on the related go to
Chong can check that out. Our tofu and Tempa tempe
those also kind of related. But I guess this springs
us to our question. I guess, so, miss what is it? Well?
(04:53):
Miss so, is a flavor bomb of a bean and
grain paste. It's a it's a concentration and preservation of
proteins and sugars and salty, savory, funky sweet flavors from
those ingredients. And uh yeah, so so. It's typically made
with us soybeans and rice. White or brown rice can
(05:13):
can do um, but you can use any lagum um.
It's zuki beans, chickpeas, lentils, and any grain barley, rye, buckwheat, oats.
The grain in question will be fermented with a fungal
culture called kogi mold and then mashed with cooked beans,
diluted water, mixed with salt and aged until it's done
(05:33):
and uh done can be a range of values um
from a few weeks to a few years, with the
resulting product being anywhere from like creamy white in color
and sort of mellow savory, salty, sweet and flavor too
yellow to red to like brown black and seriously funky
salty at that at that darker end, funky salty is
(05:55):
an excellent descriptor yeah, so good, so good um in
different regions of Japan are known for their distinct styles
of mis um. And yeah that that ratio of grain
to bean and the types of grains and beans you use,
and whether the grain is malted first, in the amount
of salt you use, in the length of storage, all
of that is going to have an impact on that
(06:17):
final product. So so when you say miso, it's not
it's not a monolith. You're talking about a lot of
different things um. Unlike many other things, the less funky
is probably my favorite kind for just putting in dashy
broth and having a soup. Um. Yeah, but but some
of that alka mis so that read me, so it
can be so good as a as a seasoning yes, yes,
(06:41):
I read an article about someone who did like a
miso tasting of all the colors, so and I was
just like, I want to do this so no, okay, alright,
adding add adding stuff to my mental list for when
I get up to Beauford Highway Farmers Market. Um. Meanwhile,
y'all hear some like jingling in the background. That is
(07:02):
not reindeer. I'm not Santa um, that's what that's orange cat. Trudy.
She's she has joined us for this recording session. Hopefully
she doesn't step on the recorder and stop it. Yes,
she wants to know more about so as well. She does.
(07:24):
She does, She herself is kind of funky and salty.
So um. Back back to food um okay, so um.
So cog Um cog is a word for a type
of mold inoculated grain um and and the scientific name
(07:45):
of the molding question here is um aspergilous raz i um.
And it famously grows on rice, hence the raz there
um in the in the name, but we'll grow on
other grains as well, and we talked about it in
our go to Jung episode. Um Uh. It's also used
to that as well as stuff like soy sauce, sake, soju,
sochu um, and other fermented rice and or bean foods.
(08:09):
In fermenting rice um, this this friendly mold will contribute
enzymes that will break down the starches in the rice
into sugars and the proteins into amino acids. And when
the resulting koji um is then added to to beans
and stuff to make me so, it kicks off a
secondary fermentation um that the same the same enzymes are
(08:30):
going to break the bean proteins down into amino acids,
the starches into sugars, and the fats too fatty acids,
at which point other friendly microbes that live in the air,
including lactic acid bacteria and yeasts will eat some of
these sugars et cetera and poop flavor. So we are
once again talking about bacteria and yeast food. Yeah, gets
(09:00):
less goofy every time we do it, obviously, absolutely, which
is what we're going for, Less goofy. That's that's our motto, clearly.
But okay, so so so miso. The resulting mis um
can be used as a seasoning in a lot of ways.
Um in stews and stir fries, or marinades or sauces,
(09:24):
for meat or vegetables. But yeah, it is very often
just made into a simple soup called miso shi do um,
consisting of of a clear, dushy broth um, usually a
seaweed um, possibly mushroom, possibly fish based broth um, and
miso paste and maybe some toppings in there, like garnishes
like a like dried seaweed, or some tofu or some
(09:46):
dikeon radish um, maybe some vegetables something like that, um, scallions,
I don't know. And in this simple soup format it
is part of the traditional Japanese breakfast of miso soup
with a bowl of steamed rice and some pickled vege
on this side. Um. But yeah, like Annie said, it
can be served you know frequently just just a just
a little just a just a little amuse bush kind
(10:07):
of yeah, and you can make me so yourself. And um.
In these our days of of of fermentation, of home fermentation,
lots of people do. There are plenty of really good
recipes out there. Um. But if you buy it, look
for the refrigerated containers that do contain live active cultures,
(10:31):
because those are going to be the freshest and probably
the most interestingly flavored. MM. Hmmm hmmm. Um. Also side note,
people have made me so out of all kinds of
things that are not beans, um, like stachios. Um. I
saw a recipe for cookie dough. Mi so because I
guess technically all you really need is like a combination
(10:54):
of fats and proteins and starches. Um. I don't know
if I believe in cookie dom me so, but do
you want to believe? I don't. I think Actually, I
think that's it. I think I don't want to believe.
I am I'm Scully, I'm the Scully of co Yeah.
(11:20):
I would watch that show, oh show based on cookie
day so or somebody really believed in it and you
were like, no, according to science it should not be
and also to believe Yeah, oh yeah, I've got a
(11:43):
lot to think about there, we all do. But but yes,
um me so, I guess including the stuff you make
at a cookie dough can can really can really season anything,
like misso caramels are a whole thing that got popular
a few years back. Um huh yeah, like salted caramels,
(12:06):
Miso Caramels, Delicious, Sara Miso kit cat. Oh gosh, I
bet there is. I would be willing to put down,
in fact, a whole kit, cut bar, dang high roller. Okay,
now we're talking. I'll have to look through our bag
of kit that we split so I have some. Yeah,
(12:30):
don't don't worry, don't worry. We're not no one. No
one hears hoarding the kit cats no never never. I guess.
Speaking of what about the nutrition, well, you know, it
does depend on what you make it out of and
how you eat it. It's not typically the kind of
thing that you're gonna like take whole spoonfuls of UM.
(12:52):
But but in general, MISA is pretty good for you.
Lots of fiber, vitamins, minerals, a little bit of protein,
a little bit of fat. It is high in sodium,
so sodium is something that you're watching out for, watch
out for that UM. And there's just a just a
whole bunch of research into fermented soy products like this
and their effects on our health. As of now, it
seems like the consensus is like they're helpful, but not
(13:18):
some kind of wacky here all like like there there
there have been indications that they might have um uh
anti cancer like pro cardiovascular properties, pro digestive health kind
of stuff like that. UM but you know, don't, don't.
Don't give up modern medicine and just eat miso soup.
(13:42):
I mean, do if you really want to. I can't.
I have no power over you. I cannot tell you
what to do. But that wouldn't be my personal recommendation
as a non medical human person. Yes, we have made
clear that we both have no power over what your actions.
But also we are not medical professionals, so you know,
(14:06):
I could be wrong about everything. You help. I mean,
this is when your doubt gets shaken about the UM
I will say. I will say that that fermentation in
(14:27):
general is just like a really smart way to preserve
foods and also make them more um um nutritionally dense
or nutritionally useful um like to to. Often that process
is going to break up some of the molecules that
we either can't digest or that hamper digestion in some
way or another. UM. And so the same way that
people figured out that like cheese is a really great
(14:49):
way to store milk, meso is a really great way
to store beans and rice. There you go, there you go.
What about numbers? We have any numbers? We don't have
that many, And I'm mad about it. I. I looked,
and I looked, and it was difficult to to to
pry them out of the internet's grasp. UM. But but
(15:11):
I can tell you that the global market for me
so is on the rise, UM, even though the Japanese
market for it is not as large as it used
to be like decades ago. UM. Because as of the
mid nineties, at any rate, the average citizen was eating
about twenty grahams of miso per day, as opposed to
twice that or more pre World War two. UM. But
(15:34):
even in Japan it has been on on the on
the rise again UM, increasing slowly recently, and uh as
other markets like Europe in North America get into it, UM,
it's expected to continue growing. So there you go, There
you go. We do have some numbers in the history section.
Oh we do, and we will get into that history.
(15:57):
But first we're going to take a quick break forward
for our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes,
thank you, Okay, So disclaimer on this this history section. UM,
it was hard to find a lot of information one UM,
(16:21):
and a lot of the information I did find came
from compilations completed by the Soy Info Center, which by
the way was a one page documentary I read. I
read a lot of I did not complete it, but
I did read a lot of it. And I don't
know how I feel about that, UM, but I did.
(16:43):
I just wanted to put that out there. I tried
to fact check with multiple sources, but I didn't always
manage it. And I'll try to point out those instances.
But disclaimer, So Misso's history in Japan is centuries old,
and depending on who you ask source, you're looking at
even older than that. UM. Some put the origins of
(17:04):
a savory fermented paste resembling me so in that country,
uh somewhere between three d b C E two three
hundred C. So that's that's a really wide range. UM
at some point to the arrival of Chinese Buddhist monks
to Japan sometime between six d eighteen to seven hundred
five s, believing that they introduced Japan to a salted
(17:26):
soybean paste. UM. This paste itself traces back to seven
hundred BC each China, the base of which probably started
as fishbones and or meat, but soy beans were the
primary base by one hundred b C. The first known
written instance of soybean jong or sybing sauce is also
believed to come from China. Um found in two hundred
(17:49):
b CES prescriptions for fifty two alements. And Yeah, from
the early days, miso was highly valued medicinally, digestion, lord libido, cancer, infections,
all kinds of things. Miso was believed to help out with.
Records indicate that something we would call miso in our
modern our modern parlance was in Japan by nine hundred CE,
(18:13):
though it was probably there around u UM. The name
miso is believed to have originated in nine d c
E as well, or perhaps miso arrived from Korea around
this time, or it developed in China, Korea and Japan,
or any mix of those independently and simultaneously ish around
(18:35):
the same time. So yeah, mysteries histories, yes, whenever and
however it arrived to Japan, it evolved based on region,
this rainbow of colors that we talked about in the beginning,
and intensities based on the climate uh and at first
it took off, particularly in northern Japan. The soybean base
(18:56):
preferred based on a sixth century CE China needs recipe
for me so um and of no, this sauce spread
throughout Southeast Asia, where it was adapted based on the
cuisines and ingredients in those areas, and we've talked about
some of those before on this very show. Apparently, records
from the tenth of century indicate that misa wasn't necessarily cheap,
(19:19):
and so adding it to soup was generally only accessible
to the rich. Um For those that couldn't afford that,
they would often add a tiny bit to rice or
pickled vegetables. It was also added to simmered vegetables and fish,
and used as a sauce for raw fish when combined
with vinegar. I will say here like it could be
(19:39):
a misinterpreting something, but especially in the north people a
lot of people on farms made their own miso, So
I was kind of confused why it would only be
for the rich. But maybe just how you added to
soup or something like it took more to do that,
or maybe maybe like yeah, like how much you would
(20:01):
use at a time perhaps, or yeah, or maybe it
depended on the region where you were. But yes, more
mysteries of history. Before refrigeration and food preservatives, a tub
of miso served as an emergency go to for many
because it lasted. Um, some things I read claimed by
the twelfth century, miso soup was a fairly common meal
(20:25):
for the samurai. And again I could not find too
much to back this up, but it is a fun legend,
so we'll tell it, um and and the legend goes,
this is a really early version of instant miso soup,
because we right, the samurai would wear these braided roofs
of taro leaves simmered in miso around their waists, and
when ready, they'd cut off a section and boil it
(20:46):
and water and there you go miso soup. Allegedly, there's,
as I believe we've said on this show before as well, um,
a lot of stuff about samurai was kind of retroactively
into popular legend. Um. So it's it's sometimes difficult to
suss out what what is actual facts and what's just
(21:09):
for fun. And it's okay if it's just for fun,
I mean that is very fun. Yeah, I've never eaten
belt soup belt soup. What if oh no, what if
your belt fell off? It's clearly a secondary belt. It's
a decorative, misative and functional as food belt whull new
(21:38):
meaning to functional foods? Yes, yes, oh, gosh, don't go
down that um so apparently too. This was also the
time miso soup making parties were really in vogue. As
a host, you would prepare soup based complete with seasonal vegetables,
and you would invite guests and they would bring side
dishes for sort of a soup pot luck, which sounds
(22:01):
pretty fun to be yes. And this was when miso
suit became more available and therefore more mainstream. A lot
of art from this time showcases just how big a
role it played in daily Japanese life, and allegedly the
Emperor had a favorite miss m hmmm. Perhaps the first
(22:23):
known Western reference to miso came from Italian Florentine Francesco Carletti,
or that's when he encountered it. He didn't actually record
it until six six uh. In describing his journey to
Japan in seven Carletti wrote, they prepare various sorts of
dishes from fish, which they flavor with a certain sauce
(22:43):
of theirs, which they call mi sole with an l uh.
It is made with a sort of bean that abounds
in various localities, and when cooked and mashed and mixed
with a little of that race from which they make
that wine already mentioned, which was sake, and then left
the stand as packed into it up turns sour and
all but decays, taking on a very sharp caun't flavor.
(23:05):
Using a little out of time they give flavor to
their foods um German author Ingelbert Camper wrote about his
time living in Japan and his seventeen twelve or Delights
of the Exotic Uh. In it, he mentions the importance
of me so and also show you and cog. Later,
(23:28):
in seventeen seven, he published the History of Japan, in
which he describes observing people use me so quote as
we do butter uh. And this is the first known
English language mentioned. And I had trouble confirming this, but
a few a few places credited the Encyclopedia Britannica with
being the first English language publication to print me so
(23:52):
as quote that is used as butter. I feel like
I should have been able to find that on Encyclopedia Britannica,
and I couldn't. Yeah. For the US this might have
happened this first recording of it uh in seven in
a letter to the Farmer's Cabinet and herd Book. According
(24:13):
to one source, I found from a miso manufacturing plant,
so grain of sauce UM. By the eighteenth century, soy
sauce had really supplanted miso as a flavoring outside of
rural areas in Japan. So in the cities you would
do soy sauce over miso um and this would continue,
according to this article until misso in Japan went into soup. Meanwhile,
(24:37):
homemade miso remained popular in rural areas of the country
until the nineteen fifties. Soy sauce is much more difficult
to make on your own um, and people took pride
in the differences of their homebrews, as they called it,
with their neighbors, their home brews of miso, comparing flavors
and histories and colors of their miso with each other,
which I do love. Japanese immigrants arriving in the US
(25:01):
at the dawn of the twentieth century brought their miso
making techniques with them. Nine seven marks the first commercial
misso made in the continental US and Sacramento, California, and
four more followed in that state soon after, all opened
by Japanese immigrants. In the beginning, sales were fairly limited
to Japanese immigrants or other immigrants familiar with miso um.
(25:25):
The first commercial misso company in Hawaii opened in nineteen
o eight, and it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that
the average American knew about miso thanks to health movements
of the six season seventies with a focus on quote,
natural foods and macrobiotics. One person of note in this
(25:46):
whole thing was Japanese immigrant Michio Kushi Um. He was
a big proponent of eating macrobiotics and mis so, specifically
for health reasons, and he opened Ari Juan Natural Foods
market in Boston where he sold a lot of me
so to people in this timeframe, and people who tried
it and took in because she's message about health, they
(26:06):
spread that information and the product across the country. I
didn't know what Arijuan was until like a couple of
weeks ago. I've never heard of it. Well, there you go, now,
I know kind of it sounds like a whole foods
correct nicer food. I'm I'm aware of it. I've never
(26:30):
I've never been in one um, but but it is
a name like within my subconscious somewhere that I'm like,
oh yeah, you can get a food there like that.
I don't know, is it? Yeah, that's that's that's what
I've got. That's for a lot of a lot of
subregions of the country. I'm like, I'm like, is that
a food word? And my brain makes note of it.
(26:50):
But what kind of food is up to further investigation
for later times of days when it becomes more necessary. Okay,
that's the system. Yeah yeah, but but listeners, let us know. Yeah,
if I'm right about that. Um. So all of this
was happening just as sushi was growing more accepted in
the US, more mainstream as well, um in the eighties,
(27:12):
and miso soup is often a part of those meals
at these American sushi restaurants and still is um And
all of this was happening as more research was being
done into the health benefits of miso, with research suggesting
um and keywords suggesting that miso could prevent cancer, lower correstaurral,
and shield against damage due to radioactive fallout, which was
(27:37):
a big selling point at the time because you know,
Cold War was still a thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah uh.
And of course all of that boosted miso's popularity. On
the heels of this the first non Japanese Americans started
opening miso companies in the seventies, and more and more
studies came out in the nineteen nineties suggesting miso's health
(27:59):
benefits and that also boosted it's popularity. And that's about
where we are. Yeah, that that brings us more or
less to to to today miso wise, Yes, misa wise,
that's that's where we are. Yeah. The some of the
(28:22):
research into that that radioactive fallout protection was really, UM,
it's really historically interesting because UM one of the the
or I guess the premier researcher was this um Japanese
doctor from from Nagasaki who when when the bomb was dropped,
I think that he and a group of his patients
(28:46):
were I don't know, like a kilometer or two away
from the blast zone, and um, his his patients wound
up having like a really good resistance to UM to
a lot of the radio act if radiation related issues.
UM that we're that we're going around at the time
and uh and he was like, they eat what kinme
(29:08):
a miso every day And I'm like, I'm not positive
that that was it, but UM, there's there's probably a
lot of factors that go into it. To be fair,
I did not like read all of his work about it,
but the quick takeaway that I got was that he
was like, Misa, was good for you, and other people
were like, cool, let's try it. Yeah, yeah, I mean
(29:31):
it's a very as we've said, it's a lovely comforting thing. Uh.
More researchers needed as always. But yeah, well I guess
that's what we have to say about for now. So now, um,
we do have some listener mail for you. We do,
but first we have one more quick break for a
(29:52):
word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you, yes,
thank you, and we're back with listener man mhm nice
(30:14):
war mugg Lisa wrote, I'm a bit behind on the podcast,
but I just got done listening to your Reese's one.
Growing up, I lived in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is about
a thirty minute drive away from Hershey. In the podcast,
you talked about going to hers There's many things they're
including a museum that talks about the history of hers
(30:34):
She's that I went to you once when I was younger,
but I don't remember much about it. But they also
have an amusement park which includes a ride that is
a roller coaster laser tech huh. And then also while
you're there, you can check out her She's Chocolate World.
You can buy pretty much any of her She's candy.
And they also have a food court with delicious cookies
and my personal favorite the milkshakes. Each and every time
(30:57):
I would go there growing up, I always had to
get a peanut butter cup milkshake. Also, I feel like
you guys probably already have heard about this by now,
but the History Channel puts out a DVD series on
the food that built America. It goes into detail about Hershey's, Mars, KFC,
and a lot of other staple American classics. It is
a binge worthy series and highly recommended. Well that sounds fun, kid,
(31:22):
Oh you know, but my only thing is, and this
usually happened to me at six Flags too. I would
I get so excited, gets so excited, like you've you've
seen it even as an adult when I go to
these like so excited, and I would get these headaches
from the excitement. And then you add in like a
Reese's peanut butter cup. I would have loved, by the way,
(31:43):
and I just know at the end of that day,
a massive yeah, oh gosh, that's yeah, I learned. I
learned my lesson pretty good. Um the first time that
we went to Universal Studios together, because I was like,
oh yeah, butter beer and Boddington's and then let's get
right on the hulk. That sounds great, and dear listeners,
(32:07):
it was not great, and I haven't been on that
ride again since. Yeah, you gotta make your theme part days,
you know, you gotta. You gotta make some choices you do,
and probably a lot of them won't be the best choices.
But this sounds super fun. This sounds so fun to me. Yes, yes,
(32:32):
um uh gosh. Valerie wrote, I'm Jewish, so I don't
tend to do Christmas carols and allergic to dairy, so
no cheese for me. But when a friend posted this
on Facebook, it reminded me of Annie's cheese giving. And
(32:53):
this is a tweet from one Reverend Richard Cole's blue
check mark and everything. Um and uh, I love I
love that any knows an he knows that I frequently
cold read these listener mails. Um and and furthermore, uh
(33:14):
than when she gets me on just the right day,
I will totally sing any lyric given to me. You
know me so well. I'm trying to be all sneaky
but to see you right through me. Uh uh part
(33:45):
part part of part of me. Though. I'm trying to
figure out all of the the scansion in in this verse,
and I'm like, have I been have I been saying
a lot of these words wrong? I'm not sure? Oh? Interesting, Um,
more things you must confront after this, you know they're
(34:06):
so truth is out there, it's true. Um, Okay, okay,
this is in verse. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna try. Okay, Okay, all right, we're not going to
sing it. I'm sorry, I'm not and or you're welcome depending. Okay,
(34:30):
So deck the board with Christmas cheeses. Falla la la
la la la la la dairy lee for baby Jesus,
follow la la la la la la la cheva for Joseph,
breathe for Mary, fallow la la la la la la la.
But the Magi don't do dairy fallow la la la
la la la la hashtag cheese carols. This should be
(34:53):
a whole thing. But why is that not in my
hymnal Right? I mean I mean no, no, no offense
or or slight or any of that to anyone who
is practicing a religious holiday right now, um or observing,
or whatever the correct phrasing there is. But but I
(35:17):
I think that there are a good number of people
who are quite serious about cheese and would be equally
maybe not equally, they would be similarly joyed to get
to Carol about cheese. I think that this is the evolution,
(35:37):
this is the next step of cheese giving, that there
needs to be the Book of Cheese giving things we read.
I think I'm the person to helm this. I Annie Reese.
I I have faith in hero to to make cheese.
Carol's a thing. I I think you can do it.
(36:02):
I think your pun game is strong enough. Yes, are
strong with this one. I think I think your dedication
to a to a rhyme scheme, um, oh, yes, that's true,
is intense. And in a in a in a good way,
in a good way, like in a like, in a
in a in a blue cheese way. You know it
(36:26):
will be an ardous journey, but the reward will be excellent,
So I shall embark upon it. Yeah. Update, keep you
all updated. If anyone has any ideas for the Book
of Cheese I'll send it my way, and thanks to
those listeners for writing in. If you would like to
(36:49):
try to as you can, our email is hello at
savor pot dot com. We are also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, all
of which our handle is at savor odd and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you
can visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always
(37:11):
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to favor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reef and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about mi So. Yes, indeed, which was another Lauren's suggestion. Yeah,
this was during during the very height of my initial
pre winter soup kick uh. And I was going like
(00:28):
soup soup uh and so yeah yeah, I was like,
what's up with me, So let's let's look into it.
Yeah yeah. And I I love mi So and I
love me so soup. Um. It was especially in college.
It was a really big comfort food for me. Um.
(00:51):
I definitely had a lot in Japan. I feel like
it just came with meals, like just a small little
cup almost every meal miso soup. And right before, as
I said, I'm pretty sure I have finished grocery shopping
for and right before we did this episode, and I
(01:12):
found well, no, through the help of a friend, I
found white miss paste and I've been using it a lot.
Oh yeah, yeah, it's really good in like basically everything.
It's like we said in our Goci Young episode, which
is related fermentational e um uh. Yeah, it's it's just like,
(01:34):
oh does this does this dish need something like does
Boop does boops and Miso in there and it's probably
gonna make it boop extra delicious. Yeah, And we went
through a kind of cold snap for Georgia uh and
listeners of the show. No, I'm very cold. I'm already
like naturally cold. Yeah. Yeah. If I show up to
(01:54):
a recording and like a T shirt with maybe like
a light flannel like Annie has, like her parka, and
some like fingerless gloves, and like maybe a hat like
a toboggan, you know, I'm not I'm not over exaggerating.
This is like literally what Annie has showed. And I
(02:15):
got so chilled in my apartment and I was like
the most comical wrapped in like three blankets and the
hat in the scarf and gloves and all this stuff,
and I was just shaking. And I made a mug
of miso soup and it was so good. Yeah. Yeah,
And we did back when we could go out and
(02:37):
do things. We had that cochy mold at home and
infant all right, they just gave us little little shots
off of there, off of their cold cochy they just
like poured off. They were like we were like, I
don't know what kind of weird stuff do you have
that you can that you can let us eat? And
they were like, do you want to try some mold juice?
I was like, yes, yes, is it tasty? They were
(02:57):
like I don't know, and we're like yeah, so sor
Food podcast duty to do this. Also the sweetbreads, the
sweet Oh that's right, because we were there for the
sweetbreads video. Oh gosh, it was so they were amazing.
Like doing this episode, I remembered that and was like, Oh,
(03:20):
I miss going out to mildly fancy restaurants and having
things like sweetbreads made for me by very talented chefs
so intensely I do. I do order out and pick
things up when I can, but holy heck, I did,
as you know because I sent you a very excited text.
(03:41):
I made oxtail stew all right, how did how to Go?
It's no exaggeration. Is one of the best things I've
ever made. Good. It was so good. Isn't it just
texture just so just so delectable? Yes, yes it was.
I've been looking ever since we did that episode, and
(04:03):
I just I haven't been able to find them. But
my last grocery grocery trip, they had him out and
I was like this is a son and I forgot
my phone so I couldn't look up like what ingredients
I would need to make anything else. But I just
happened to have enough stuff to like sub out your
work and it was so good. I'm so happy that
(04:26):
it worked out. Yeah, me too, Me too. I hope
I can make it again. Um, but for this episode, yes,
we have done an episode on the related go to
Chong can check that out. Our tofu and Tempa tempe
those also kind of related. But I guess this springs
us to our question. I guess, so, miss what is it? Well?
(04:53):
Miss so, is a flavor bomb of a bean and
grain paste. It's a it's a concentration and preservation of
proteins and sugars and salty, savory, funky sweet flavors from
those ingredients. And uh yeah, so so. It's typically made
with us soybeans and rice. White or brown rice can
(05:13):
can do um, but you can use any lagum um.
It's zuki beans, chickpeas, lentils, and any grain barley, rye, buckwheat, oats.
The grain in question will be fermented with a fungal
culture called kogi mold and then mashed with cooked beans,
diluted water, mixed with salt and aged until it's done
(05:33):
and uh done can be a range of values um
from a few weeks to a few years, with the
resulting product being anywhere from like creamy white in color
and sort of mellow savory, salty, sweet and flavor too
yellow to red to like brown black and seriously funky
salty at that at that darker end, funky salty is
(05:55):
an excellent descriptor yeah, so good, so good um in
different regions of Japan are known for their distinct styles
of mis um. And yeah that that ratio of grain
to bean and the types of grains and beans you use,
and whether the grain is malted first, in the amount
of salt you use, in the length of storage, all
of that is going to have an impact on that
(06:17):
final product. So so when you say miso, it's not
it's not a monolith. You're talking about a lot of
different things um. Unlike many other things, the less funky
is probably my favorite kind for just putting in dashy
broth and having a soup. Um. Yeah, but but some
of that alka mis so that read me, so it
can be so good as a as a seasoning yes, yes,
(06:41):
I read an article about someone who did like a
miso tasting of all the colors, so and I was
just like, I want to do this so no, okay, alright,
adding add adding stuff to my mental list for when
I get up to Beauford Highway Farmers Market. Um. Meanwhile,
y'all hear some like jingling in the background. That is
(07:02):
not reindeer. I'm not Santa um, that's what that's orange cat. Trudy.
She's she has joined us for this recording session. Hopefully
she doesn't step on the recorder and stop it. Yes,
she wants to know more about so as well. She does.
(07:24):
She does, She herself is kind of funky and salty.
So um. Back back to food um okay, so um.
So cog Um cog is a word for a type
of mold inoculated grain um and and the scientific name
(07:45):
of the molding question here is um aspergilous raz i um.
And it famously grows on rice, hence the raz there
um in the in the name, but we'll grow on
other grains as well, and we talked about it in
our go to Jung episode. Um Uh. It's also used
to that as well as stuff like soy sauce, sake, soju,
sochu um, and other fermented rice and or bean foods.
(08:09):
In fermenting rice um, this this friendly mold will contribute
enzymes that will break down the starches in the rice
into sugars and the proteins into amino acids. And when
the resulting koji um is then added to to beans
and stuff to make me so, it kicks off a
secondary fermentation um that the same the same enzymes are
(08:30):
going to break the bean proteins down into amino acids,
the starches into sugars, and the fats too fatty acids,
at which point other friendly microbes that live in the air,
including lactic acid bacteria and yeasts will eat some of
these sugars et cetera and poop flavor. So we are
once again talking about bacteria and yeast food. Yeah, gets
(09:00):
less goofy every time we do it, obviously, absolutely, which
is what we're going for, Less goofy. That's that's our motto, clearly.
But okay, so so so miso. The resulting mis um
can be used as a seasoning in a lot of ways.
Um in stews and stir fries, or marinades or sauces,
(09:24):
for meat or vegetables. But yeah, it is very often
just made into a simple soup called miso shi do um,
consisting of of a clear, dushy broth um, usually a
seaweed um, possibly mushroom, possibly fish based broth um, and
miso paste and maybe some toppings in there, like garnishes
like a like dried seaweed, or some tofu or some
(09:46):
dikeon radish um, maybe some vegetables something like that, um, scallions,
I don't know. And in this simple soup format it
is part of the traditional Japanese breakfast of miso soup
with a bowl of steamed rice and some pickled vege
on this side. Um. But yeah, like Annie said, it
can be served you know frequently just just a just
a little just a just a little amuse bush kind
(10:07):
of yeah, and you can make me so yourself. And um.
In these our days of of of fermentation, of home fermentation,
lots of people do. There are plenty of really good
recipes out there. Um. But if you buy it, look
for the refrigerated containers that do contain live active cultures,
(10:31):
because those are going to be the freshest and probably
the most interestingly flavored. MM. Hmmm hmmm. Um. Also side note,
people have made me so out of all kinds of
things that are not beans, um, like stachios. Um. I
saw a recipe for cookie dough. Mi so because I
guess technically all you really need is like a combination
(10:54):
of fats and proteins and starches. Um. I don't know
if I believe in cookie dom me so, but do
you want to believe? I don't. I think Actually, I
think that's it. I think I don't want to believe.
I am I'm Scully, I'm the Scully of co Yeah.
(11:20):
I would watch that show, oh show based on cookie
day so or somebody really believed in it and you
were like, no, according to science it should not be
and also to believe Yeah, oh yeah, I've got a
(11:43):
lot to think about there, we all do. But but yes,
um me so, I guess including the stuff you make
at a cookie dough can can really can really season anything,
like misso caramels are a whole thing that got popular
a few years back. Um huh yeah, like salted caramels,
(12:06):
Miso Caramels, Delicious, Sara Miso kit cat. Oh gosh, I
bet there is. I would be willing to put down,
in fact, a whole kit, cut bar, dang high roller. Okay,
now we're talking. I'll have to look through our bag
of kit that we split so I have some. Yeah,
(12:30):
don't don't worry, don't worry. We're not no one. No
one hears hoarding the kit cats no never never. I guess.
Speaking of what about the nutrition, well, you know, it
does depend on what you make it out of and
how you eat it. It's not typically the kind of
thing that you're gonna like take whole spoonfuls of UM.
(12:52):
But but in general, MISA is pretty good for you.
Lots of fiber, vitamins, minerals, a little bit of protein,
a little bit of fat. It is high in sodium,
so sodium is something that you're watching out for, watch
out for that UM. And there's just a just a
whole bunch of research into fermented soy products like this
and their effects on our health. As of now, it
seems like the consensus is like they're helpful, but not
(13:18):
some kind of wacky here all like like there there
there have been indications that they might have um uh
anti cancer like pro cardiovascular properties, pro digestive health kind
of stuff like that. UM but you know, don't, don't.
Don't give up modern medicine and just eat miso soup.
(13:42):
I mean, do if you really want to. I can't.
I have no power over you. I cannot tell you
what to do. But that wouldn't be my personal recommendation
as a non medical human person. Yes, we have made
clear that we both have no power over what your actions.
But also we are not medical professionals, so you know,
(14:06):
I could be wrong about everything. You help. I mean,
this is when your doubt gets shaken about the UM
I will say. I will say that that fermentation in
(14:27):
general is just like a really smart way to preserve
foods and also make them more um um nutritionally dense
or nutritionally useful um like to to. Often that process
is going to break up some of the molecules that
we either can't digest or that hamper digestion in some
way or another. UM. And so the same way that
people figured out that like cheese is a really great
(14:49):
way to store milk, meso is a really great way
to store beans and rice. There you go, there you go.
What about numbers? We have any numbers? We don't have
that many, And I'm mad about it. I. I looked,
and I looked, and it was difficult to to to
pry them out of the internet's grasp. UM. But but
(15:11):
I can tell you that the global market for me
so is on the rise, UM, even though the Japanese
market for it is not as large as it used
to be like decades ago. UM. Because as of the
mid nineties, at any rate, the average citizen was eating
about twenty grahams of miso per day, as opposed to
twice that or more pre World War two. UM. But
(15:34):
even in Japan it has been on on the on
the rise again UM, increasing slowly recently, and uh as
other markets like Europe in North America get into it, UM,
it's expected to continue growing. So there you go, There
you go. We do have some numbers in the history section.
Oh we do, and we will get into that history.
(15:57):
But first we're going to take a quick break forward
for our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes,
thank you, Okay, So disclaimer on this this history section. UM,
it was hard to find a lot of information one UM,
(16:21):
and a lot of the information I did find came
from compilations completed by the Soy Info Center, which by
the way was a one page documentary I read. I
read a lot of I did not complete it, but
I did read a lot of it. And I don't
know how I feel about that, UM, but I did.
(16:43):
I just wanted to put that out there. I tried
to fact check with multiple sources, but I didn't always
manage it. And I'll try to point out those instances.
But disclaimer, So Misso's history in Japan is centuries old,
and depending on who you ask source, you're looking at
even older than that. UM. Some put the origins of
(17:04):
a savory fermented paste resembling me so in that country,
uh somewhere between three d b C E two three
hundred C. So that's that's a really wide range. UM
at some point to the arrival of Chinese Buddhist monks
to Japan sometime between six d eighteen to seven hundred
five s, believing that they introduced Japan to a salted
(17:26):
soybean paste. UM. This paste itself traces back to seven
hundred BC each China, the base of which probably started
as fishbones and or meat, but soy beans were the
primary base by one hundred b C. The first known
written instance of soybean jong or sybing sauce is also
believed to come from China. Um found in two hundred
(17:49):
b CES prescriptions for fifty two alements. And Yeah, from
the early days, miso was highly valued medicinally, digestion, lord libido, cancer, infections,
all kinds of things. Miso was believed to help out with.
Records indicate that something we would call miso in our
modern our modern parlance was in Japan by nine hundred CE,
(18:13):
though it was probably there around u UM. The name
miso is believed to have originated in nine d c
E as well, or perhaps miso arrived from Korea around
this time, or it developed in China, Korea and Japan,
or any mix of those independently and simultaneously ish around
(18:35):
the same time. So yeah, mysteries histories, yes, whenever and
however it arrived to Japan, it evolved based on region,
this rainbow of colors that we talked about in the beginning,
and intensities based on the climate uh and at first
it took off, particularly in northern Japan. The soybean base
(18:56):
preferred based on a sixth century CE China needs recipe
for me so um and of no, this sauce spread
throughout Southeast Asia, where it was adapted based on the
cuisines and ingredients in those areas, and we've talked about
some of those before on this very show. Apparently, records
from the tenth of century indicate that misa wasn't necessarily cheap,
(19:19):
and so adding it to soup was generally only accessible
to the rich. Um For those that couldn't afford that,
they would often add a tiny bit to rice or
pickled vegetables. It was also added to simmered vegetables and fish,
and used as a sauce for raw fish when combined
with vinegar. I will say here like it could be
(19:39):
a misinterpreting something, but especially in the north people a
lot of people on farms made their own miso, So
I was kind of confused why it would only be
for the rich. But maybe just how you added to
soup or something like it took more to do that,
or maybe maybe like yeah, like how much you would
(20:01):
use at a time perhaps, or yeah, or maybe it
depended on the region where you were. But yes, more
mysteries of history. Before refrigeration and food preservatives, a tub
of miso served as an emergency go to for many
because it lasted. Um, some things I read claimed by
the twelfth century, miso soup was a fairly common meal
(20:25):
for the samurai. And again I could not find too
much to back this up, but it is a fun legend,
so we'll tell it, um and and the legend goes,
this is a really early version of instant miso soup,
because we right, the samurai would wear these braided roofs
of taro leaves simmered in miso around their waists, and
when ready, they'd cut off a section and boil it
(20:46):
and water and there you go miso soup. Allegedly, there's,
as I believe we've said on this show before as well, um,
a lot of stuff about samurai was kind of retroactively
into popular legend. Um. So it's it's sometimes difficult to
suss out what what is actual facts and what's just
(21:09):
for fun. And it's okay if it's just for fun,
I mean that is very fun. Yeah, I've never eaten
belt soup belt soup. What if oh no, what if
your belt fell off? It's clearly a secondary belt. It's
a decorative, misative and functional as food belt whull new
(21:38):
meaning to functional foods? Yes, yes, oh, gosh, don't go
down that um so apparently too. This was also the
time miso soup making parties were really in vogue. As
a host, you would prepare soup based complete with seasonal vegetables,
and you would invite guests and they would bring side
dishes for sort of a soup pot luck, which sounds
(22:01):
pretty fun to be yes. And this was when miso
suit became more available and therefore more mainstream. A lot
of art from this time showcases just how big a
role it played in daily Japanese life, and allegedly the
Emperor had a favorite miss m hmmm. Perhaps the first
(22:23):
known Western reference to miso came from Italian Florentine Francesco Carletti,
or that's when he encountered it. He didn't actually record
it until six six uh. In describing his journey to
Japan in seven Carletti wrote, they prepare various sorts of
dishes from fish, which they flavor with a certain sauce
(22:43):
of theirs, which they call mi sole with an l uh.
It is made with a sort of bean that abounds
in various localities, and when cooked and mashed and mixed
with a little of that race from which they make
that wine already mentioned, which was sake, and then left
the stand as packed into it up turns sour and
all but decays, taking on a very sharp caun't flavor.
(23:05):
Using a little out of time they give flavor to
their foods um German author Ingelbert Camper wrote about his
time living in Japan and his seventeen twelve or Delights
of the Exotic Uh. In it, he mentions the importance
of me so and also show you and cog. Later,
(23:28):
in seventeen seven, he published the History of Japan, in
which he describes observing people use me so quote as
we do butter uh. And this is the first known
English language mentioned. And I had trouble confirming this, but
a few a few places credited the Encyclopedia Britannica with
being the first English language publication to print me so
(23:52):
as quote that is used as butter. I feel like
I should have been able to find that on Encyclopedia Britannica,
and I couldn't. Yeah. For the US this might have
happened this first recording of it uh in seven in
a letter to the Farmer's Cabinet and herd Book. According
(24:13):
to one source, I found from a miso manufacturing plant,
so grain of sauce UM. By the eighteenth century, soy
sauce had really supplanted miso as a flavoring outside of
rural areas in Japan. So in the cities you would
do soy sauce over miso um and this would continue,
according to this article until misso in Japan went into soup. Meanwhile,
(24:37):
homemade miso remained popular in rural areas of the country
until the nineteen fifties. Soy sauce is much more difficult
to make on your own um, and people took pride
in the differences of their homebrews, as they called it,
with their neighbors, their home brews of miso, comparing flavors
and histories and colors of their miso with each other,
which I do love. Japanese immigrants arriving in the US
(25:01):
at the dawn of the twentieth century brought their miso
making techniques with them. Nine seven marks the first commercial
misso made in the continental US and Sacramento, California, and
four more followed in that state soon after, all opened
by Japanese immigrants. In the beginning, sales were fairly limited
to Japanese immigrants or other immigrants familiar with miso um.
(25:25):
The first commercial misso company in Hawaii opened in nineteen
o eight, and it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that
the average American knew about miso thanks to health movements
of the six season seventies with a focus on quote,
natural foods and macrobiotics. One person of note in this
(25:46):
whole thing was Japanese immigrant Michio Kushi Um. He was
a big proponent of eating macrobiotics and mis so, specifically
for health reasons, and he opened Ari Juan Natural Foods
market in Boston where he sold a lot of me
so to people in this timeframe, and people who tried
it and took in because she's message about health, they
(26:06):
spread that information and the product across the country. I
didn't know what Arijuan was until like a couple of
weeks ago. I've never heard of it. Well, there you go, now,
I know kind of it sounds like a whole foods
correct nicer food. I'm I'm aware of it. I've never
(26:30):
I've never been in one um, but but it is
a name like within my subconscious somewhere that I'm like,
oh yeah, you can get a food there like that.
I don't know, is it? Yeah, that's that's that's what
I've got. That's for a lot of a lot of
subregions of the country. I'm like, I'm like, is that
a food word? And my brain makes note of it.
(26:50):
But what kind of food is up to further investigation
for later times of days when it becomes more necessary. Okay,
that's the system. Yeah yeah, but but listeners, let us know. Yeah,
if I'm right about that. Um. So all of this
was happening just as sushi was growing more accepted in
the US, more mainstream as well, um in the eighties,
(27:12):
and miso soup is often a part of those meals
at these American sushi restaurants and still is um And
all of this was happening as more research was being
done into the health benefits of miso, with research suggesting
um and keywords suggesting that miso could prevent cancer, lower correstaurral,
and shield against damage due to radioactive fallout, which was
(27:37):
a big selling point at the time because you know,
Cold War was still a thing. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah uh.
And of course all of that boosted miso's popularity. On
the heels of this the first non Japanese Americans started
opening miso companies in the seventies, and more and more
studies came out in the nineteen nineties suggesting miso's health
(27:59):
benefits and that also boosted it's popularity. And that's about
where we are. Yeah, that that brings us more or
less to to to today miso wise, Yes, misa wise,
that's that's where we are. Yeah. The some of the
(28:22):
research into that that radioactive fallout protection was really, UM,
it's really historically interesting because UM one of the the
or I guess the premier researcher was this um Japanese
doctor from from Nagasaki who when when the bomb was dropped,
I think that he and a group of his patients
(28:46):
were I don't know, like a kilometer or two away
from the blast zone, and um, his his patients wound
up having like a really good resistance to UM to
a lot of the radio act if radiation related issues.
UM that we're that we're going around at the time
and uh and he was like, they eat what kinme
(29:08):
a miso every day And I'm like, I'm not positive
that that was it, but UM, there's there's probably a
lot of factors that go into it. To be fair,
I did not like read all of his work about it,
but the quick takeaway that I got was that he
was like, Misa, was good for you, and other people
were like, cool, let's try it. Yeah, yeah, I mean
(29:31):
it's a very as we've said, it's a lovely comforting thing. Uh.
More researchers needed as always. But yeah, well I guess
that's what we have to say about for now. So now, um,
we do have some listener mail for you. We do,
but first we have one more quick break for a
(29:52):
word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you, yes,
thank you, and we're back with listener man mhm nice
(30:14):
war mugg Lisa wrote, I'm a bit behind on the podcast,
but I just got done listening to your Reese's one.
Growing up, I lived in Lancaster, Pennsylvania, which is about
a thirty minute drive away from Hershey. In the podcast,
you talked about going to hers There's many things they're
including a museum that talks about the history of hers
(30:34):
She's that I went to you once when I was younger,
but I don't remember much about it. But they also
have an amusement park which includes a ride that is
a roller coaster laser tech huh. And then also while
you're there, you can check out her She's Chocolate World.
You can buy pretty much any of her She's candy.
And they also have a food court with delicious cookies
and my personal favorite the milkshakes. Each and every time
(30:57):
I would go there growing up, I always had to
get a peanut butter cup milkshake. Also, I feel like
you guys probably already have heard about this by now,
but the History Channel puts out a DVD series on
the food that built America. It goes into detail about Hershey's, Mars, KFC,
and a lot of other staple American classics. It is
a binge worthy series and highly recommended. Well that sounds fun, kid,
(31:22):
Oh you know, but my only thing is, and this
usually happened to me at six Flags too. I would
I get so excited, gets so excited, like you've you've
seen it even as an adult when I go to
these like so excited, and I would get these headaches
from the excitement. And then you add in like a
Reese's peanut butter cup. I would have loved, by the way,
(31:43):
and I just know at the end of that day,
a massive yeah, oh gosh, that's yeah, I learned. I
learned my lesson pretty good. Um the first time that
we went to Universal Studios together, because I was like,
oh yeah, butter beer and Boddington's and then let's get
right on the hulk. That sounds great, and dear listeners,
(32:07):
it was not great, and I haven't been on that
ride again since. Yeah, you gotta make your theme part days,
you know, you gotta. You gotta make some choices you do,
and probably a lot of them won't be the best choices.
But this sounds super fun. This sounds so fun to me. Yes, yes,
(32:32):
um uh gosh. Valerie wrote, I'm Jewish, so I don't
tend to do Christmas carols and allergic to dairy, so
no cheese for me. But when a friend posted this
on Facebook, it reminded me of Annie's cheese giving. And
(32:53):
this is a tweet from one Reverend Richard Cole's blue
check mark and everything. Um and uh, I love I
love that any knows an he knows that I frequently
cold read these listener mails. Um and and furthermore, uh
(33:14):
than when she gets me on just the right day,
I will totally sing any lyric given to me. You
know me so well. I'm trying to be all sneaky
but to see you right through me. Uh uh part
(33:45):
part part of part of me. Though. I'm trying to
figure out all of the the scansion in in this verse,
and I'm like, have I been have I been saying
a lot of these words wrong? I'm not sure? Oh? Interesting, Um,
more things you must confront after this, you know they're
(34:06):
so truth is out there, it's true. Um, Okay, okay,
this is in verse. Um, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm
gonna try. Okay, Okay, all right, we're not going to
sing it. I'm sorry, I'm not and or you're welcome depending. Okay,
(34:30):
So deck the board with Christmas cheeses. Falla la la
la la la la la dairy lee for baby Jesus,
follow la la la la la la la cheva for Joseph,
breathe for Mary, fallow la la la la la la la.
But the Magi don't do dairy fallow la la la
la la la la hashtag cheese carols. This should be
(34:53):
a whole thing. But why is that not in my
hymnal Right? I mean I mean no, no, no offense
or or slight or any of that to anyone who
is practicing a religious holiday right now, um or observing,
or whatever the correct phrasing there is. But but I
(35:17):
I think that there are a good number of people
who are quite serious about cheese and would be equally
maybe not equally, they would be similarly joyed to get
to Carol about cheese. I think that this is the evolution,
(35:37):
this is the next step of cheese giving, that there
needs to be the Book of Cheese giving things we read.
I think I'm the person to helm this. I Annie Reese.
I I have faith in hero to to make cheese.
Carol's a thing. I I think you can do it.
(36:02):
I think your pun game is strong enough. Yes, are
strong with this one. I think I think your dedication
to a to a rhyme scheme, um, oh, yes, that's true,
is intense. And in a in a in a good way,
in a good way, like in a like, in a
in a in a blue cheese way. You know it
(36:26):
will be an ardous journey, but the reward will be excellent,
So I shall embark upon it. Yeah. Update, keep you
all updated. If anyone has any ideas for the Book
of Cheese I'll send it my way, and thanks to
those listeners for writing in. If you would like to
(36:49):
try to as you can, our email is hello at
savor pot dot com. We are also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, all
of which our handle is at savor odd and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of
I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, you
can visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always
(37:11):
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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