July 13, 2023 • 30 mins
These tender, slurpable, earthy noodles have buckwheat to thank for their delicate flavor and texture. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and culture behind soba noodles.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reeves,
an unlarn vocal bomb, and today.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have an episode for you about Soba noodles.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and it does have a lot of confusion based
on your Soba noodles clarification, but we're going to try
to We're going to try to get through it. Yeah. Yeah,
it's gotta be great. It is. It is just like
soba noodles are great. I cooked some before I even
(00:40):
knew we were going to do this. I have a
craving for all right. Yeah, sometimes it happens that way.
I did bring I cooked a ton for D and
D that one time. Yeah, so good. It was so good.
They're so good with like just a light flavoring, like
(01:01):
they don't need much.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
They really don't. Yeah, I mean you, I mean you
can do whatever you want. We can't stop you. But
right now there's such a lovely taste and texture just
unto themselves they are. Was there a reason that you
have this on your mind?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Nope, m.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
If there was, it is lost to the sands of
time I've had.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I've had a whole week, y'all. It's it's it's fine.
It's great. It's great. It was. It was a good week.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It was very productive on a whole different show that's
coming out around Halloween. So Witch may not be involved.
Oh yeah, yeah, No, you wrote a thing. Yeah, and
it's got a lot of food in it. It does.
It's very upsetting. Thank you, Annie, You're welcome. I feel
like all of mine have some kind of food they do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's sort of our stick, it is. It's true. Well,
I also am having a bit of a I won't
say a week, but my if my voice sounds a
little different, I got a whole thing going on, which
is just essentially I hope that I just fell asleep
with my mouth open. But if it sounds a little rough,
(02:14):
I'm working on it. I think you're doing so well.
Thank you. I appreciate that I did make soba noodles
in Japan. And I know I've talked about this before.
I have a video of it. I should publish it.
I was so scared, you know me, I'm like getting
everything right. Yeah, And you don't want to do the
(02:37):
wrong thing. You don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I don't want to offend anybody. You don't want to
chop off a finger. You Yeah, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yes, but it was so nice, like we, me and
a friend did it, and she is much more. I
cook a lot of stuff, but I don't venture out
too much in what I would personally consider right or wrong, Like,
oh gosh, that's gonna be too difficult. Okay, okay, she does.
(03:04):
So she really wanted to do it, and we got
to we made them, and then we got to eat
the results of our labor and it was delicious and
it was just like a little soy sauce. I think
maybe some spring onion and maybe some sesame seed and
that was it, and it was really good. Oh yeah, yeah,
(03:29):
well yeah, well maybe I'll post it. I still have
that video. I remember. I remember you can see our
New Year's Traditions episodes where we briefly talked about soba,
which we'll get into more in a second. Maybe ramen
soy sauce. Perhaps have we done a soy sauce episode? Sure?
(03:53):
I If we haven't, then we will. For some reason,
I was convinced we had as we talked about this.
It could have been anything. It could have been anything,
but okay, look into that later. Yeah, let's get to
our question.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Apparently we have many questions, but let's get you a
particular one.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yes, Soba noodles, Oh what are they?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, Sober noodles are a type of noodle made with
buckwheat flour, usually blended with a bit of wheat flour
maybe other stuff, and buckwheat is nutty and earthy in
flavor and often ground a little bit coarsely in texture,
and it does not contain glutens, so it can lead
to it to a soft or like slightly crumbly noodle.
(04:44):
If crumbly is a texture that you can apply to
noodles in your mind, but when you combine it with
a little bit of wheat flour, you get this really
like delicately flavorful noodle that has that has a good
spring and cohesion to it. And they're usually cut long
and skinny, like a slightly skinny spaghetti kind of thing.
So the noodles can be served warm as the starch
(05:05):
base or the star of dishes or soups, or served chilled,
usually pretty plain, yeah, with like a dipping sauce, but
but sometimes in a noodle salad sort of situation. They're
really versatile. They're like, uh, they're like the whole grain
bread of noodles. They're this deceptively simple thing that has
(05:26):
a lot of depth and uh an almost richness, like
uh like the Josie and the Pussycats film from two
thousand and one. Ooh, nice reference. I'm so sorry to know.
I mean that genuinely in a positive way. I love
that movie. I will hear no bad words against it.
(05:49):
I'm hoping this is going to be a similar experience
to the Barbie film, which I am so excited about
because blessed credit Gerwig. But okay, I'm getting away from
the main point. So buckwheat, like Barbie and Josie the Pussycats,
is another episode. But briefly, buckwheat is not a type
(06:12):
of wheat. It's not even really closely related because it's
not a type of grass, meaning it's not a cereal
grain at all. But it does have starchy seeds. Soba
is the Japanese word for buckwheat.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
In American English, we have kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Appropriated it to mean the noodles, as that's what we
have the most experience with, and this makes googling in
English really exciting. Yeah yeah, but anyway, you can take
buckwheat seeds and hold them either wholly or partially remove
(06:49):
the seed coat or not, and then grind the seed
itself into flower of whatever fineness. The seed is white,
but the seed coat is like brown to greenish, so
you can tell usually if the coat was included by
the color of the finished noodles white if there's no
coat in there, to like a greenish to tannish to
(07:10):
even grayish. If there was some seed coat, and if
any hole was included, that'll show up as like dark
speckles usually in the noodles.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, but right.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So, this flour can then be mixed with wheat flour
if you want, or other starches or seasonings like maybe
green tea if you want, definitely a little bit of water,
and then kneaded into a dough which can be rolled
and cut into noodles and either sold or cooked fresh
or processed by freezing or drying for cooking later. In Japan,
(07:41):
soba noodles are often served relatively plainly, as we've been
talking about, to really allow the flavor and texture of
the noodle itself to shine. You're looking at like like
simple broths, light dipping sauces, maybe some herbs or green onions,
or like strips of dried seaweed or other seasonings like that.
Herbal or salty flavor are popular. And you know, like
(08:02):
different types or preparations of flour or flowers plural are
preferred for different dishes. But I mean, you know, like
it's a noodle like like people can and will do
just about anything noodlely.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
With them, anything noodlely. Yeah, and I will say I
have I have more soba so you listeners send in
those recipes. Yeah, yes, but what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, you know it can it can depend. But by
getting a whole grain or pseudo grain in this case
in your noodles has some potential health benefits. You know,
buckwheat has a good smattering of micronutrients and fiber and protein,
so they'll helpefully up. But to keep you going, you know,
eat a vegetable and a fat, maybe a little extra protein.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I don't know. All those things would be delicious with
a soba noodle. So yeah, well we do have some
numbers for you, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So in Tokyo, where soba noodles are a historic street food,
the common ratio of wheat to buckwheat is two to eight,
and it's called out by those numbers. This is referred
to as nihachi soba or two eight soba, and there
is an organization that has formed up to recognize and
(09:24):
celebrate this legacy of soba.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Noodles in in Tokyo.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
As of December of twenty nineteen, five hundred and nineteen
shops were affiliated with that organization mm HM.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And as mentioned, the noodles are traditionally eaten at Japanese
New Year celebrations to promote longevity, basically like long strands
of noodles for long life. So you want to get
a really long noodle? Sure? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
This is specifically as part of a dish called toshikshi soba,
which can be made in different ways, but traditionally is
like a hot soba noodle soup with with dashi broth
plus other seasonings and toppings to taste, some of which
also have symbolic meetings.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right and from what I've read again, listeners, please write
in the words for the slurfing and lip smacking sounds
of eating soba sounds similar to the words for the
long lived crane and the turtle. Okay yeah, but also
kind of on the opposite side of New Year's the
(10:26):
snap of the noodles sometimes also means a clean break.
Oh yeah, and so it would be like the last
dish that you eat before the new year, because you're
trying to get a clean break.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah yeahah, sometimes like as the countdown is happening. Yeah
I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Oh, I mean, I love soba anytime. But sure, But no,
symbolic noodles are great. Symbolic noodles are great. Well, we
have a lot of history of these symbolic noodles.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
We do, we do, and we are going to get
into that. But first we are getting into a quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So this is not the buckwheat episode, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, but it is an important component of buckwheat noodles.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So it is. It is, and you know, specifically in
this case with Japan. So buckwheat originally arrived in Japan
in porridge form via monks returning from China. Allegedly, people
really started eating buckwheat in Japan in the Edo period
(11:45):
sometime in the sixteen hundreds, perhaps as a way to
combat berry berry, which is a disease caused by a
lack of th diamine or vitamin B one and it
was pretty common in the country at the time, likely
due to a that was very high and polished white rice,
which is low I mean, which always amazes me those
(12:07):
kind of things where people didn't know for sure, like
the scientific reasoning behind it, but were like they were like,
well it seems to help.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, yeah, we're better when we eat that, so we
should just do that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah. Right. Some records suggest that people in Japan weren't
eating buckwheat and maybe even buckwheat noodles as early as
the seven hundreds CE to prevent famine, and maybe even
further back, but that isn't largely reported and the evidence
is really lacking to support that. Others report buckwheat was
(12:43):
introduced to Japan by three hundred BCE, and because it
can be grown in depleted soil, that it was a
relief crop by the seven hundred CE.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, I've seen introduction dates ranging from like fifteen hundred
to five hundred BCE, and then I think that there
were probably waves of popularity that occurred over time after that.
But yes, whenever it arrived, its original use was probably
more or less whole grains cooked into a sort of porridge.
(13:16):
Then later, by like the twelve to thirteen hundred CE,
stone hand mills arrived from China and people started experimenting
with just all kinds of flour based recipes.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yes, and in the early days, buckwheat was largely consumed
in the form of cakes made with glutenous rice or
in dumplings, which sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like a type a type of
mulchi made with buckwheat instead of rice flour or maybe
in combination anyway. Yeah, there was also a dish called
sobagaki that entered the scene. This is like a snack
or appetizer made from stirring hot water and buckwheat flour
into a sticky sort of dumpling. People were probably forming
(14:02):
buckwheat dough into rope noodles or maybe even cut type
noodles during about this time and by the late fourteen
hundreds in Kyoto, members of the aristocracy may have been
treated to sober noodle type dishes, but the earliest records
of sober noodles as we know them today are actually
(14:23):
from the earliest records we have of soba noodle knives,
which come from this one Buddhist temple in Kyoto. Called
the Joshoji temple. So by fifteen seventy four, temple records
indicate that these knives were present, and thus that sober
noodles were being made. These knives are called sobikitri, and
(14:44):
they have this it's a really interesting shape. They have
this long blade that extends back under the whole length
of the knife's handle, so like your hand goes into
kind of a U shape that's formed by the handle,
and then the edge of the late of this knife
that goes all the way back. And they have a
pretty heavy weight too, that lets you cut these very long,
(15:06):
even strips very smoothly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
They're beautiful. They're beautiful pieces. I read them looking them up.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
By about the middle of the sixteen hundreds, soba noodles,
made of one hundred percent buckwheat were a popular dish
and sometimes delivered to homes. They were really soft and
steamed in these bamboo baskets and served with preparations of misough.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh no, the craving is so strong. It was like
the saddest sound made on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I think I'd suspect that's something you can go do
right now, Like you probably have the ingredients.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I do. I have miso. Oh okay, all right. Well,
beginning and at least the seventeenth century paintings depicted soba
the noodles specifically as a favorite dish in Tokyo, soba
vendors were popular too. After restaurants closed, these soba vendors
(16:11):
would travel and sell their noodles to feed those who
were still looking for something to eat. Very smart. These
portable stalls could be transported by one person and were
featured in a famous eighteen thirty seven painting, which is
a very beautiful painting. But yeah, you can see all
the all the a little fold. It's really cool. Yeah yeah,
(16:34):
oh but yes, soba noodle vendors. Soba noodle vendors sound
so good, okay, And yeah, as you mentioned, the ratio
was an important part of this. By using eighty percent
buckwheat and twenty percent wheat, producers created a more resilient,
slurpable noodle.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
During this period, there were also like fancier restaurants and
more permanent stalls where soba noodles were sold. But right,
these these vendors were just so so portable because it
was just a case basically where they had some baskets
of pre cooked soba noodles and then like a like
a pot or kettle of hot broth, and so you
(17:14):
could just serve it to people just boop.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Just there you go, just boop, and then you've got
delicious soba noodles. Yes, and a legendly some of the
earliest sober restaurants have their original noten, which is the
curtain that hangs of the entrance of restaurants in Japan,
and some of them are over three hundred years old.
(17:37):
What yeah, that's it. That's what they say. I believe it. Yeah, yes,
And some sources also suggest that sober noodles were so
popular in Japan that by the time the Chinese arrived
with their own noodles, often called ramen. I don't see
(17:58):
our ramen episode, you can go on. But when they
arrive with their own noodles sometime soon after the Edo period,
the Japanese called these noodles soba, and even Chinese soba
so like yaki soba. Yaki soba is another example. So
this dish is usually made with Chinese style wheat based noodles,
(18:21):
and there's no buck wheat involved, so like, yeah, that's
so fascinating that it becomes such a thing that.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It was just a this is the noodle shape. You've
got that noodle shape, So sure soba.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, it's soba. Uh huh. Skipping way ahead. The Tokyo
two eight Soba Initiative launched in twenty nineteen, and it
was aimed at maintaining the history and traditions of soba.
So we've talked about a lot of that stuff before,
of Jesse's things to kind of nail down the rules
in the history and all that stuff. Yeah, soba is and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Encourage encourage those traditions and encourage yeah, people to come
meet them.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Oh I am ready, I am encouraged. Encouraged, yeah, courage, Yes,
I am so encouraged. Oh gosh, please listeners please. This
is one of those ones where it was again because
we're in the United States, English Google sort of hard
to find a lot of info. But also, yeah, like
(19:24):
if just let us know if you know any recipes.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh yeah, if you if you have a very specific
dipping sauce that you make and like and like like
everyone else's ratio of miran is wrong, Like let us know,
like these are important things.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Extremely extremely I think gosh.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I uh, I think I went to this one, very
very very Japanese izakaya in New York City one time,
Like I like to the point where like the wait
staff had a as much English as I have Japanese
and it was really embarrassing for me. I think they
were very entertained by me. But anyway, yeah, like like
it was right around New Year's and they had this
(20:10):
dish of oh gosh, like like like koto and shido
uh sesame soba and so it was like like a
hot and a cold preparation with uh with black and
white sesame seeds and oh heck, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah sounds so amazing. It was really good. I mean
that's the thing. That's what I said at the chap
is like they really are good with just kind of
these dipping sauces. They're so the texture is so unique
yeah to me, and they just soak up those flavors
and it's delicious. Well, like I said, I got a pack,
(20:53):
so somebody let me know what to do. Yeah, I'll
probably just cook it and then dip it in something.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
If you have a recipe, absolutely please always always write
in oh.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes you know those recipes. But I feel like that's
what we have to say about sober for it is
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from a quick break.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with listeners. Slurpable noodle, slurpable noodle.
(21:45):
All right, y'all. Yeah, you know what. I'm just trying
to live my most creative life I am. I cannot argue.
Thank you so well. Speaking of our crow, we need
we need more Lauren singing stuff, even if it is
more of a between talk and sing. Little bits like
(22:08):
that always give me a smile. Onto swordfish. It is
a good fish, but I have found it is hard
for me to cook well. When I'm at a good
seafood place, I'm willing to order, but I haven't tried
to make it at home in some time. I've had
good recipes, just have had a hard time hitting the
cooking right. Maybe it's time to try again. Hmmm. The
(22:31):
Pinia Colada Young Lauren with her fancy Virgin prosentry. I
like the don't have to think too hard about the
description fits the drink? Yes, a good one, just hits
right when you are in the mood. Hitchiker Brewing here
has one beer whole Punch Pina Colada, and another based
(22:53):
off the Painkiller, which has Pinia Colada vibes waiting for
them to come back into root. Now I have to
say a cocktail origin story being debated never well almost never. Okay, well,
let's move on. Why does a cement mixer of Penia
Colada sound like something a group of college kids would
(23:16):
come up with. I think it is time to sit
back at a beach bar with Pina Colada and get
Lauren her Dac group once again. Love the show. It
always brings a smile to my face, can bring back memories,
and provides ideas and new information. There have been times
when I've just needed an escape and I'll pick an
old episode, pop on the headphones and take a walk.
(23:37):
Always puts me in a better mood.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh thank you, Yes, absolutely ah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I did see that. Maybe we'll come back and revisit this.
But I did see that it's not a subn mixer,
but like the original kind of frozen cocktail mixer. I
think it put in the Smithsonian. Oh cool, Okay, yeah
it did have a bit. It changed our beverage landscape.
(24:08):
It absolutely did. Yeah, it's it still does have an impact,
but it does. I mean, yes, the cement mixer part
kind of it's very ecology.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I mean, but it also just goes to show that
you know, you can, you can, you can take a
kid out of college, but you know, yeah, it's true,
you can still be.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Foolhardy and anytime, anytime. Yeah, yes, And I did get
to have a pina colada and it came out of
one of these again yeah, but like similar, and it
was delicious. It was so refreshing. Oh goodness. Yeah, but
(24:55):
you and I still have to go, and we have
to go and we do. I mean, I would love
to be able to relax. Well, good, we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Do okay, alright, it sounds stressful planning to relax.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
All right, No, no, no, it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Joe wrote, Hello, I hope you are both doing well.
I just listened to the Swordfish episode and thought Filipino
cinna gang might be a good recipe. Candidate Cynagang is
my favorite Filipino food by far. It's a sour stew
with a tamarind bass that traditionally uses either pork or
fish as it's protein. I think the meatiness of swordfish
(25:39):
would stand up to the sourness compared to a more
delicate fish. My dad likes to use mustard greens in
synagang when using fish, but green beans are also good,
and you can always chuck in a tomato for more sourness.
You can go the more authentic route to make it
by by using tamarin pods and were paste, but there
are also dry soup mixes you can pick up most
(26:00):
Asian grocery stores. Here are some links to the traditional
versus easy versions. I also had a long overdue trip
to the Philippines and ate so many fruits, some of
which were podcast topics and some that could be investigated
for future ones. Maybe mangoes were, of course number one.
I must have had mango in some form almost every day,
(26:22):
freshly cut fruit, mango juice, or mango smoothies. I also
had fresh durian for the first time, after only having
it in candy or ice cream form, and it was fascinating.
The smell is so distinctive, but not as bad as
I've heard it described. It was kind of like super
funky cheese emphasis on the funky. That funk is part
(26:42):
of the taste as well, but is balanced by the sweetness. However,
the texture was what put me off because it was
so slimy. A fresh jackfruit has a lovely, mild flavor,
and the size of the fruit itself is absolutely mind boggling.
The bananas here are small and starchy and are delicious
in so many applications, whether grilled in a sugar syrup,
(27:03):
sliced and wrapped in wanton paper and fried, cooked and
more savory dishes like plantain, or just fresh. There's also
nothing like fresh young coconut called bucle picked right off
the tree. The coconut water is the best thing to
drink when you're sweating buckets the way I was, and
the young coconut meat is almost jelly like in texture.
(27:24):
Pabellos are like grapefruits, more grown up and sophisticated, cousin,
sweeter and more floral, with less of that an acidic kick.
I didn't have sour sup fruit itself. We call it
oh gayabano, but I did have it choosed, and it's great,
mild like an apple or banana, but kind of citrusy,
sour too, siniguelas hm, sure, apologies they continue. I only
(27:52):
knew the Filipino word until Google told me other names,
including hog plum Okay is related to cash you apple,
and tastes like mangoes, but with a tart sour finish,
also delicious. Mangostein truly is a king amongst fruits, though
sweet and creamy with a tart finish to offset the sweetness.
(28:12):
It's hard to beat mangoes for me. But oh boy,
did mangostein come close?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Who?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
That was quite the rundown on all the fruit I ate.
But I know you too would appreciate my obsessive tally.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, absolutely, Oh my gosh, you transported me. I want
all of these, literally all of them. Oh, it just
sounds so good. Like to me, this is gonna sound
really dorky, but just you describing this sounds so poetic,
like those those flavors, those textures, especially in the environment
(28:49):
you're in when you're like hot and keeping in the
context of.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Share share your sweating and you get this nice refreshing, sweet,
jelly like kind of fruit.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Like what that's amazing? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I always want fried bananas in whatever format, like that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I literally, Lauren, you saw I had to like hold
my chest about like having wrapped fruit and rolls situation.
That sounds also right. Just fresh mango, just fresh mango. Man,
so good. Oh my gosh, it is amazing and I
(29:27):
do so. The synagogue as you mentioned, synagogue, as you mentioned,
that sounds really good with this. This is the swordfish.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right, yeah, there there are a couple Filipino restaurants around Atlanta,
and I just need to go to them more.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, yes, yep, that's that's what it is. Yes, yes, sir, accurate. Well, okay,
thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our email is hello at saverrpod dot com. We're also
(30:10):
on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reeves,
an unlarn vocal bomb, and today.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
We have an episode for you about Soba noodles.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and it does have a lot of confusion based
on your Soba noodles clarification, but we're going to try
to We're going to try to get through it. Yeah. Yeah,
it's gotta be great. It is. It is just like
soba noodles are great. I cooked some before I even
(00:40):
knew we were going to do this. I have a
craving for all right. Yeah, sometimes it happens that way.
I did bring I cooked a ton for D and
D that one time. Yeah, so good. It was so good.
They're so good with like just a light flavoring, like
(01:01):
they don't need much.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
They really don't. Yeah, I mean you, I mean you
can do whatever you want. We can't stop you. But
right now there's such a lovely taste and texture just
unto themselves they are. Was there a reason that you
have this on your mind?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Nope, m.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
If there was, it is lost to the sands of
time I've had.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
I've had a whole week, y'all. It's it's it's fine.
It's great. It's great. It was. It was a good week.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
It was very productive on a whole different show that's
coming out around Halloween. So Witch may not be involved.
Oh yeah, yeah, No, you wrote a thing. Yeah, and
it's got a lot of food in it. It does.
It's very upsetting. Thank you, Annie, You're welcome. I feel
like all of mine have some kind of food they do.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
It's sort of our stick, it is. It's true. Well,
I also am having a bit of a I won't
say a week, but my if my voice sounds a
little different, I got a whole thing going on, which
is just essentially I hope that I just fell asleep
with my mouth open. But if it sounds a little rough,
(02:14):
I'm working on it. I think you're doing so well.
Thank you. I appreciate that I did make soba noodles
in Japan. And I know I've talked about this before.
I have a video of it. I should publish it.
I was so scared, you know me, I'm like getting
everything right. Yeah, And you don't want to do the
(02:37):
wrong thing. You don't know.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I don't want to offend anybody. You don't want to
chop off a finger. You Yeah, definitely not.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Yes, but it was so nice, like we, me and
a friend did it, and she is much more. I
cook a lot of stuff, but I don't venture out
too much in what I would personally consider right or wrong, Like,
oh gosh, that's gonna be too difficult. Okay, okay, she does.
(03:04):
So she really wanted to do it, and we got
to we made them, and then we got to eat
the results of our labor and it was delicious and
it was just like a little soy sauce. I think
maybe some spring onion and maybe some sesame seed and
that was it, and it was really good. Oh yeah, yeah,
(03:29):
well yeah, well maybe I'll post it. I still have
that video. I remember. I remember you can see our
New Year's Traditions episodes where we briefly talked about soba,
which we'll get into more in a second. Maybe ramen
soy sauce. Perhaps have we done a soy sauce episode? Sure?
(03:53):
I If we haven't, then we will. For some reason,
I was convinced we had as we talked about this.
It could have been anything. It could have been anything,
but okay, look into that later. Yeah, let's get to
our question.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Apparently we have many questions, but let's get you a
particular one.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Yes, Soba noodles, Oh what are they?
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Well, Sober noodles are a type of noodle made with
buckwheat flour, usually blended with a bit of wheat flour
maybe other stuff, and buckwheat is nutty and earthy in
flavor and often ground a little bit coarsely in texture,
and it does not contain glutens, so it can lead
to it to a soft or like slightly crumbly noodle.
(04:44):
If crumbly is a texture that you can apply to
noodles in your mind, but when you combine it with
a little bit of wheat flour, you get this really
like delicately flavorful noodle that has that has a good
spring and cohesion to it. And they're usually cut long
and skinny, like a slightly skinny spaghetti kind of thing.
So the noodles can be served warm as the starch
(05:05):
base or the star of dishes or soups, or served chilled,
usually pretty plain, yeah, with like a dipping sauce, but
but sometimes in a noodle salad sort of situation. They're
really versatile. They're like, uh, they're like the whole grain
bread of noodles. They're this deceptively simple thing that has
(05:26):
a lot of depth and uh an almost richness, like
uh like the Josie and the Pussycats film from two
thousand and one. Ooh, nice reference. I'm so sorry to know.
I mean that genuinely in a positive way. I love
that movie. I will hear no bad words against it.
(05:49):
I'm hoping this is going to be a similar experience
to the Barbie film, which I am so excited about
because blessed credit Gerwig. But okay, I'm getting away from
the main point. So buckwheat, like Barbie and Josie the Pussycats,
is another episode. But briefly, buckwheat is not a type
(06:12):
of wheat. It's not even really closely related because it's
not a type of grass, meaning it's not a cereal
grain at all. But it does have starchy seeds. Soba
is the Japanese word for buckwheat.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
In American English, we have kind of.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Appropriated it to mean the noodles, as that's what we
have the most experience with, and this makes googling in
English really exciting. Yeah yeah, but anyway, you can take
buckwheat seeds and hold them either wholly or partially remove
(06:49):
the seed coat or not, and then grind the seed
itself into flower of whatever fineness. The seed is white,
but the seed coat is like brown to greenish, so
you can tell usually if the coat was included by
the color of the finished noodles white if there's no
coat in there, to like a greenish to tannish to
(07:10):
even grayish. If there was some seed coat, and if
any hole was included, that'll show up as like dark
speckles usually in the noodles.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, but right.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So, this flour can then be mixed with wheat flour
if you want, or other starches or seasonings like maybe
green tea if you want, definitely a little bit of water,
and then kneaded into a dough which can be rolled
and cut into noodles and either sold or cooked fresh
or processed by freezing or drying for cooking later. In Japan,
(07:41):
soba noodles are often served relatively plainly, as we've been
talking about, to really allow the flavor and texture of
the noodle itself to shine. You're looking at like like
simple broths, light dipping sauces, maybe some herbs or green onions,
or like strips of dried seaweed or other seasonings like that.
Herbal or salty flavor are popular. And you know, like
(08:02):
different types or preparations of flour or flowers plural are
preferred for different dishes. But I mean, you know, like
it's a noodle like like people can and will do
just about anything noodlely.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
With them, anything noodlely. Yeah, and I will say I
have I have more soba so you listeners send in
those recipes. Yeah, yes, but what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Well, you know it can it can depend. But by
getting a whole grain or pseudo grain in this case
in your noodles has some potential health benefits. You know,
buckwheat has a good smattering of micronutrients and fiber and protein,
so they'll helpefully up. But to keep you going, you know,
eat a vegetable and a fat, maybe a little extra protein.
Speaker 1 (08:50):
I don't know. All those things would be delicious with
a soba noodle. So yeah, well we do have some
numbers for you, yes, okay.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
So in Tokyo, where soba noodles are a historic street food,
the common ratio of wheat to buckwheat is two to eight,
and it's called out by those numbers. This is referred
to as nihachi soba or two eight soba, and there
is an organization that has formed up to recognize and
(09:24):
celebrate this legacy of soba.
Speaker 1 (09:27):
Noodles in in Tokyo.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
As of December of twenty nineteen, five hundred and nineteen
shops were affiliated with that organization mm HM.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
And as mentioned, the noodles are traditionally eaten at Japanese
New Year celebrations to promote longevity, basically like long strands
of noodles for long life. So you want to get
a really long noodle? Sure? Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
This is specifically as part of a dish called toshikshi soba,
which can be made in different ways, but traditionally is
like a hot soba noodle soup with with dashi broth
plus other seasonings and toppings to taste, some of which
also have symbolic meetings.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Right and from what I've read again, listeners, please write
in the words for the slurfing and lip smacking sounds
of eating soba sounds similar to the words for the
long lived crane and the turtle. Okay yeah, but also
kind of on the opposite side of New Year's the
(10:26):
snap of the noodles sometimes also means a clean break.
Oh yeah, and so it would be like the last
dish that you eat before the new year, because you're
trying to get a clean break.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah yeahah, sometimes like as the countdown is happening. Yeah
I love that.
Speaker 1 (10:43):
Oh, I mean, I love soba anytime. But sure, But no,
symbolic noodles are great. Symbolic noodles are great. Well, we
have a lot of history of these symbolic noodles.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
We do, we do, and we are going to get
into that. But first we are getting into a quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
So this is not the buckwheat episode, no, no.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
No, but it is an important component of buckwheat noodles.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
So it is. It is, and you know, specifically in
this case with Japan. So buckwheat originally arrived in Japan
in porridge form via monks returning from China. Allegedly, people
really started eating buckwheat in Japan in the Edo period
(11:45):
sometime in the sixteen hundreds, perhaps as a way to
combat berry berry, which is a disease caused by a
lack of th diamine or vitamin B one and it
was pretty common in the country at the time, likely
due to a that was very high and polished white rice,
which is low I mean, which always amazes me those
(12:07):
kind of things where people didn't know for sure, like
the scientific reasoning behind it, but were like they were like,
well it seems to help.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, yeah, we're better when we eat that, so we
should just do that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Yeah. Right. Some records suggest that people in Japan weren't
eating buckwheat and maybe even buckwheat noodles as early as
the seven hundreds CE to prevent famine, and maybe even
further back, but that isn't largely reported and the evidence
is really lacking to support that. Others report buckwheat was
(12:43):
introduced to Japan by three hundred BCE, and because it
can be grown in depleted soil, that it was a
relief crop by the seven hundred CE.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Yeah, I've seen introduction dates ranging from like fifteen hundred
to five hundred BCE, and then I think that there
were probably waves of popularity that occurred over time after that.
But yes, whenever it arrived, its original use was probably
more or less whole grains cooked into a sort of porridge.
(13:16):
Then later, by like the twelve to thirteen hundred CE,
stone hand mills arrived from China and people started experimenting
with just all kinds of flour based recipes.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Yes, and in the early days, buckwheat was largely consumed
in the form of cakes made with glutenous rice or
in dumplings, which sounds really good.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like a type a type of
mulchi made with buckwheat instead of rice flour or maybe
in combination anyway. Yeah, there was also a dish called
sobagaki that entered the scene. This is like a snack
or appetizer made from stirring hot water and buckwheat flour
into a sticky sort of dumpling. People were probably forming
(14:02):
buckwheat dough into rope noodles or maybe even cut type
noodles during about this time and by the late fourteen
hundreds in Kyoto, members of the aristocracy may have been
treated to sober noodle type dishes, but the earliest records
of sober noodles as we know them today are actually
(14:23):
from the earliest records we have of soba noodle knives,
which come from this one Buddhist temple in Kyoto. Called
the Joshoji temple. So by fifteen seventy four, temple records
indicate that these knives were present, and thus that sober
noodles were being made. These knives are called sobikitri, and
(14:44):
they have this it's a really interesting shape. They have
this long blade that extends back under the whole length
of the knife's handle, so like your hand goes into
kind of a U shape that's formed by the handle,
and then the edge of the late of this knife
that goes all the way back. And they have a
pretty heavy weight too, that lets you cut these very long,
(15:06):
even strips very smoothly.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
They're beautiful. They're beautiful pieces. I read them looking them up.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
By about the middle of the sixteen hundreds, soba noodles,
made of one hundred percent buckwheat were a popular dish
and sometimes delivered to homes. They were really soft and
steamed in these bamboo baskets and served with preparations of misough.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh no, the craving is so strong. It was like
the saddest sound made on this podcast.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
I think I'd suspect that's something you can go do
right now, Like you probably have the ingredients.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
I do. I have miso. Oh okay, all right. Well,
beginning and at least the seventeenth century paintings depicted soba
the noodles specifically as a favorite dish in Tokyo, soba
vendors were popular too. After restaurants closed, these soba vendors
(16:11):
would travel and sell their noodles to feed those who
were still looking for something to eat. Very smart. These
portable stalls could be transported by one person and were
featured in a famous eighteen thirty seven painting, which is
a very beautiful painting. But yeah, you can see all
the all the a little fold. It's really cool. Yeah yeah,
(16:34):
oh but yes, soba noodle vendors. Soba noodle vendors sound
so good, okay, And yeah, as you mentioned, the ratio
was an important part of this. By using eighty percent
buckwheat and twenty percent wheat, producers created a more resilient,
slurpable noodle.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
During this period, there were also like fancier restaurants and
more permanent stalls where soba noodles were sold. But right,
these these vendors were just so so portable because it
was just a case basically where they had some baskets
of pre cooked soba noodles and then like a like
a pot or kettle of hot broth, and so you
(17:14):
could just serve it to people just boop.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Just there you go, just boop, and then you've got
delicious soba noodles. Yes, and a legendly some of the
earliest sober restaurants have their original noten, which is the
curtain that hangs of the entrance of restaurants in Japan,
and some of them are over three hundred years old.
(17:37):
What yeah, that's it. That's what they say. I believe it. Yeah, yes,
And some sources also suggest that sober noodles were so
popular in Japan that by the time the Chinese arrived
with their own noodles, often called ramen. I don't see
(17:58):
our ramen episode, you can go on. But when they
arrive with their own noodles sometime soon after the Edo period,
the Japanese called these noodles soba, and even Chinese soba
so like yaki soba. Yaki soba is another example. So
this dish is usually made with Chinese style wheat based noodles,
(18:21):
and there's no buck wheat involved, so like, yeah, that's
so fascinating that it becomes such a thing that.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It was just a this is the noodle shape. You've
got that noodle shape, So sure soba.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, it's soba. Uh huh. Skipping way ahead. The Tokyo
two eight Soba Initiative launched in twenty nineteen, and it
was aimed at maintaining the history and traditions of soba.
So we've talked about a lot of that stuff before,
of Jesse's things to kind of nail down the rules
in the history and all that stuff. Yeah, soba is and.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Encourage encourage those traditions and encourage yeah, people to come
meet them.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Oh I am ready, I am encouraged. Encouraged, yeah, courage, Yes,
I am so encouraged. Oh gosh, please listeners please. This
is one of those ones where it was again because
we're in the United States, English Google sort of hard
to find a lot of info. But also, yeah, like
(19:24):
if just let us know if you know any recipes.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Oh yeah, if you if you have a very specific
dipping sauce that you make and like and like like
everyone else's ratio of miran is wrong, Like let us know,
like these are important things.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
Extremely extremely I think gosh.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I uh, I think I went to this one, very
very very Japanese izakaya in New York City one time,
Like I like to the point where like the wait
staff had a as much English as I have Japanese
and it was really embarrassing for me. I think they
were very entertained by me. But anyway, yeah, like like
it was right around New Year's and they had this
(20:10):
dish of oh gosh, like like like koto and shido
uh sesame soba and so it was like like a
hot and a cold preparation with uh with black and
white sesame seeds and oh heck, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
Yeah sounds so amazing. It was really good. I mean
that's the thing. That's what I said at the chap
is like they really are good with just kind of
these dipping sauces. They're so the texture is so unique
yeah to me, and they just soak up those flavors
and it's delicious. Well, like I said, I got a pack,
(20:53):
so somebody let me know what to do. Yeah, I'll
probably just cook it and then dip it in something.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
If you have a recipe, absolutely please always always write
in oh.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Yes you know those recipes. But I feel like that's
what we have to say about sober for it is
it is.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from a quick break.
Speaker 1 (21:17):
For a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with listeners. Slurpable noodle, slurpable noodle.
(21:45):
All right, y'all. Yeah, you know what. I'm just trying
to live my most creative life I am. I cannot argue.
Thank you so well. Speaking of our crow, we need
we need more Lauren singing stuff, even if it is
more of a between talk and sing. Little bits like
(22:08):
that always give me a smile. Onto swordfish. It is
a good fish, but I have found it is hard
for me to cook well. When I'm at a good
seafood place, I'm willing to order, but I haven't tried
to make it at home in some time. I've had
good recipes, just have had a hard time hitting the
cooking right. Maybe it's time to try again. Hmmm. The
(22:31):
Pinia Colada Young Lauren with her fancy Virgin prosentry. I
like the don't have to think too hard about the
description fits the drink? Yes, a good one, just hits
right when you are in the mood. Hitchiker Brewing here
has one beer whole Punch Pina Colada, and another based
(22:53):
off the Painkiller, which has Pinia Colada vibes waiting for
them to come back into root. Now I have to
say a cocktail origin story being debated never well almost never. Okay, well,
let's move on. Why does a cement mixer of Penia
Colada sound like something a group of college kids would
(23:16):
come up with. I think it is time to sit
back at a beach bar with Pina Colada and get
Lauren her Dac group once again. Love the show. It
always brings a smile to my face, can bring back memories,
and provides ideas and new information. There have been times
when I've just needed an escape and I'll pick an
old episode, pop on the headphones and take a walk.
(23:37):
Always puts me in a better mood.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh thank you, Yes, absolutely ah.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
I did see that. Maybe we'll come back and revisit this.
But I did see that it's not a subn mixer,
but like the original kind of frozen cocktail mixer. I
think it put in the Smithsonian. Oh cool, Okay, yeah
it did have a bit. It changed our beverage landscape.
(24:08):
It absolutely did. Yeah, it's it still does have an impact,
but it does. I mean, yes, the cement mixer part
kind of it's very ecology.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
I mean, but it also just goes to show that
you know, you can, you can, you can take a
kid out of college, but you know, yeah, it's true,
you can still be.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Foolhardy and anytime, anytime. Yeah, yes, And I did get
to have a pina colada and it came out of
one of these again yeah, but like similar, and it
was delicious. It was so refreshing. Oh goodness. Yeah, but
(24:55):
you and I still have to go, and we have
to go and we do. I mean, I would love
to be able to relax. Well, good, we're gonna.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Do okay, alright, it sounds stressful planning to relax.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
All right, No, no, no, it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Joe wrote, Hello, I hope you are both doing well.
I just listened to the Swordfish episode and thought Filipino
cinna gang might be a good recipe. Candidate Cynagang is
my favorite Filipino food by far. It's a sour stew
with a tamarind bass that traditionally uses either pork or
fish as it's protein. I think the meatiness of swordfish
(25:39):
would stand up to the sourness compared to a more
delicate fish. My dad likes to use mustard greens in
synagang when using fish, but green beans are also good,
and you can always chuck in a tomato for more sourness.
You can go the more authentic route to make it
by by using tamarin pods and were paste, but there
are also dry soup mixes you can pick up most
(26:00):
Asian grocery stores. Here are some links to the traditional
versus easy versions. I also had a long overdue trip
to the Philippines and ate so many fruits, some of
which were podcast topics and some that could be investigated
for future ones. Maybe mangoes were, of course number one.
I must have had mango in some form almost every day,
(26:22):
freshly cut fruit, mango juice, or mango smoothies. I also
had fresh durian for the first time, after only having
it in candy or ice cream form, and it was fascinating.
The smell is so distinctive, but not as bad as
I've heard it described. It was kind of like super
funky cheese emphasis on the funky. That funk is part
(26:42):
of the taste as well, but is balanced by the sweetness. However,
the texture was what put me off because it was
so slimy. A fresh jackfruit has a lovely, mild flavor,
and the size of the fruit itself is absolutely mind boggling.
The bananas here are small and starchy and are delicious
in so many applications, whether grilled in a sugar syrup,
(27:03):
sliced and wrapped in wanton paper and fried, cooked and
more savory dishes like plantain, or just fresh. There's also
nothing like fresh young coconut called bucle picked right off
the tree. The coconut water is the best thing to
drink when you're sweating buckets the way I was, and
the young coconut meat is almost jelly like in texture.
(27:24):
Pabellos are like grapefruits, more grown up and sophisticated, cousin,
sweeter and more floral, with less of that an acidic kick.
I didn't have sour sup fruit itself. We call it
oh gayabano, but I did have it choosed, and it's great,
mild like an apple or banana, but kind of citrusy,
sour too, siniguelas hm, sure, apologies they continue. I only
(27:52):
knew the Filipino word until Google told me other names,
including hog plum Okay is related to cash you apple,
and tastes like mangoes, but with a tart sour finish,
also delicious. Mangostein truly is a king amongst fruits, though
sweet and creamy with a tart finish to offset the sweetness.
(28:12):
It's hard to beat mangoes for me. But oh boy,
did mangostein come close?
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Who?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
That was quite the rundown on all the fruit I ate.
But I know you too would appreciate my obsessive tally.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yes, absolutely, Oh my gosh, you transported me. I want
all of these, literally all of them. Oh, it just
sounds so good. Like to me, this is gonna sound
really dorky, but just you describing this sounds so poetic,
like those those flavors, those textures, especially in the environment
(28:49):
you're in when you're like hot and keeping in the
context of.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Share share your sweating and you get this nice refreshing, sweet,
jelly like kind of fruit.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Like what that's amazing? Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
I always want fried bananas in whatever format, like that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I literally, Lauren, you saw I had to like hold
my chest about like having wrapped fruit and rolls situation.
That sounds also right. Just fresh mango, just fresh mango. Man,
so good. Oh my gosh, it is amazing and I
(29:27):
do so. The synagogue as you mentioned, synagogue, as you mentioned,
that sounds really good with this. This is the swordfish.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Right, yeah, there there are a couple Filipino restaurants around Atlanta,
and I just need to go to them more.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, I mean, yes, yep, that's that's what it is. Yes, yes, sir, accurate. Well, okay,
thank you to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our email is hello at saverrpod dot com. We're also
(30:10):
on social media.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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