August 8, 2022 • 36 mins
This frozen treat is deceptively simple – and thousands of years in the making. Anney and Lauren dig into the crystallized science and history of sorbet (and sherbet, too).
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren vog Obam, and today
we have an episode for you about sorbet. Oh yes,
oh yes, And I have come to many revelations researching
this one. Uh, Lauren, did you have any particular reason
(00:29):
this one was on your mind? I don't know, it's
it's summer. I was like, what's the summer thing? And
then I was like, oh, what would be so refreshing
right now while I'm thinking about what's a summer thing?
Is a sorbet? And then I was like, oh, hey,
maybe we haven't done that yet. And then I had
(00:51):
to like triple check and we had yes yes, which
we will talk about more at length than a second
because frequently listeners these topics go in and out when
we do them, so sometimes we don't remember which topics
we have covered and which ones we have not. And
(01:14):
that's just okay. We're both doing fine. Absolutely yes. Uh
are you do you like sorbet? Oh? I love a sorbet.
I love every frozen type of dessert really. Um. I
also love and ice cream and granita and uh sure, sherbet, sherbet.
(01:40):
We don't know it's correctly sherbet, But I've literally never
said that before right now, Like in my life, agreed,
I've always put the second are in there. This is
one of my revelations I had researching this podcast because
I've always said sure Bert, which apparently is sort of
(02:02):
an accidental thing that happened. We're going to touch on
it more in the history section. But it was like,
it's not really a thing. Silly English English speakers just
want to put that second ar in there. Yeah, I
like a second R. I like I like a second R.
I have. My strongest memory of sorbet is that my
(02:30):
one of my best friends Katie, who I've talked about
on this show before. Um, when we were growing up,
she loves desserts. She always wanted desserts. She always wanted
forbee um, and I always wanted like chocolate ice cream,
a rocky road like I really okay, very different in
(02:51):
our frozen treat preferences. But it was just a thing
like she would always try to find the sorbet to
be rainbow colored and be so pretty, and I would
be like, oh that's pretty, but I don't want it. Um.
It was just like we had very different tastes. I
think it's a good way of saying it. But every
(03:12):
time I think of Survey, I think of her and
her love of this like very colorful, bright, yeah iced
dessert that she just adored. She adored it. Oh, I
mean I I love a rocky road. I love a
(03:34):
chocolate ice cream base. I just also like, I get
so excited when I see like, like a fresh batch
of like a like a mango sorbet come out for
the first time in a year, and I'm like, oh,
the mango crab came in and the local place is
making the good mango sorb. Yes, a fruit dessert, A
(03:57):
fruit dessert is a lovely thing. I just I just
like food. Yeah, I like, And I have quite a
sweet too. So I'll have to show you. I have
my post sit notes, as I've told you, where I
just keep track of what people like, and I have
one for you. And you're very like bitter and fruity
(04:20):
based a lot of things you've told me. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
I could see a sherbet or sorbet fitting in there. Sure. Yeah.
Uh So you can see our episodes on Gelato and
Sunday's Popsicles. I don't think we've actually done ice cream. No, no,
(04:44):
we haven't because I've been avoiding it. Um, I feel
I feel like it's too much. But then I suggested this, Um,
i'm which is also kind of a lot. So I
don't know, and I feel like, I guess, I'm I'm
trying to like chip away at the at the outer
extremities of ice cream so that it's easier when we
actually get there. But yeah, you can also see our
(05:06):
episodes on dipping dots, on milkshakes, on on ice in general.
I guess, yeah, sure, sure, Well, I guess this brings
us to our question, sure, sorbet? What is it? Well? Uh,
(05:28):
A sorbet, as we use the word today, is a
type of frozen dessert or snack or or refreshment that's
made just with water, sugar, and flavoring like period fruit
or vegetables or herbs, or beverages like juice or wine
or coffee. Um, all of that churned and chilled until
(05:48):
it's creamy, smooth and airy and and spoonable. And this
is a little counterintuitive because usually the stuff that makes
a frozen dessert creamy and or smooth are ingredients that
sorbets don't contain like cream or or eggs um, which
also helps prevent sorbet from being heavy or stiff in
(06:13):
the way that like ice cream, which does contain cream
and eggs can be heavy or stiff. Sorbet is like
a like a slushy or a smoothie that's substantial enough
to scoop. Um. It's like it's like the soft crystal
form of any given flavor element, Like like like time
(06:33):
and care has been taken to create this perfect structure
with with the base element of that flavor. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like it's like it's like Steven Universe in a cone. Oh,
I bet that's a flavor that exists. Oh goodness, Oh
(06:54):
I'm sure. I'm sure someone's done it. I love that show.
Oh ostensibly kids cartoons that make me cry, I love
them anyway. Sorbets, yes, uh. Many sorbets are fruit based
(07:16):
or are in fact like just fruit and sugar frozen
um generally four parts fruit to one part sugar. That's
that's the like accepted ratio. UM. But you can really
use anything that contains both water and sugar, like including
just water and sugar. UM. The third ingredient is air.
(07:40):
Oh this makes me want to do like a captain planet.
Which element are you quiz? Oh? Oh no? Okay, all right, um,
for a later date perhaps I'm pretty sure of those
I was air anyway. Okay, alright, so Sorbet, Yes, I'm concentrating,
(08:05):
I promise. Uh. Sorbet is churned like an ice cream
to simultaneously freeze the water sugar flavoring batter and to
mix in tiny air bubbles to a to support the structure.
And key to this consistency is getting your ingredients in
a balance. And also you're freezing technique just right to
(08:29):
create like we tiny ice crystals, uh, tiny enough that
they feel creamy, not not grainy or gritty. And here
here's where we come to crystal science. Yeah, okay. When
a substance goes from a liquid state to a solid
(08:50):
state a k a. When it freezes, um, it's molecules
canfirm and structure up together in a number of different
ways that depend on a number a factors, like the
size of your sample of liquid like is it a
picture of liquid or like a remicin worth of liquid
yea um, And the surface area of your sample like
(09:12):
even if it's just a ramicin worth is it in
a cylindrical ramicin or is it like spread out over
a sheet pan? All right? Um? And then also the
temperature at which you are freezing it, um, Like is
it at the freezing point of the liquid or like
just a little bit below that or like way below that? Yeah. Yeah,
(09:33):
you've probably witnessed this in your own kitchen any number
of times when you've made ice cubes or popsicles, and
you noticed how like the shape and size of the
tray affected the freeze time and and and freeze pattern,
like whether the center was still gushy when the outsides
were totally frozen, if like a skin maybe froze on
top of the ice cubes first, something like that, yeah,
(09:53):
or um, or maybe if you've popped a drink in
the freezer to chill it down and then it came
out with like big slushy ice crystals it um or heck,
if you live in an area where it snows, you've
seen the difference between like the fine powder of a
of a super cold blustery snow, um versus the big
(10:13):
wet flakes of a mild weather snow. And of course
you might have experimented directly with this. If you've ever
like made uh granitas or ice creams or candies from
sugar syrup. Yeah, uh okay uh. Crystals form when molecules
(10:35):
line up and and lock together in particular ways. Um.
Generally speaking, mild temperatures and long periods of time and
like being left the heck alone will allow molecules to
build on each other in a way that forms like
big chunky crystals. Yeah. And now this is what you're
(10:56):
looking for when you're trying to make like a like
a large clear ice cube for your for your fancy
cocktail or or I don't know, like a like a
diamond gem. Um. And that's a reference to something we
haven't published yet forthcoming. Um. But this is the opposite
of what you're trying to do with a sorbet Um.
You're looking for tiny ice crystals, so you're using cold
(11:19):
temperatures quickly with lots of agitation. Um. And one of
the cool things about crystals. There's a lot of cool
things about crystals. One of them is that the presence
of a crystal in a liquid will seed the formation
of more crystals under the right circumstances. And this is
for complicated physics physics reasons that I do not entirely
(11:41):
understand um very over Simply, nucleation theory has a lot
to do with the random interaction of molecules um and
so like providing a base or or like like almost
like an example, crystal kind of encourages the rest of
the molecules to follow suit. That is such an oversimplification,
(12:05):
but again we're talking about sorbet, all right. If you're
making a sorbet, uh, you want to seed your crystallization
by freezing a small portion of your like water sugar
flavoring solution first like like quick and cold, and then
add that to your to your churn, your your machine
or whatever and uh and just whip the heck out
(12:27):
of it to incorporate air um. And Okay, the the
ingredients that you're using can either trip you up or
like sort of help you cheat. Okay. The sugar in
a sorbet is actually key to the texture because in
a solution with water, sugar kind of like blocks large
(12:51):
ice crystals from forming because while small water molecules will freeze,
the sugar molecules will not, and will sort of like
elbow those little ice crystals around, like keep a little
distance there, you know, yeah yeah yeah, um. And the
sugar in your flavoring counts, so like if you're using
a sweet fruit, that will that will affect the balance. Um.
(13:13):
Also if you put alcohol in their alcohol also lowers
the freezing temperature of your mixture, which means that you'll
have to get it colder for longer in order to
freeze up properly, or maybe use less sugar. All kinds
of balances you can work out there. Um. However, on
the flip side, when you use fruit like say raspberries
or apples that contain a bunch of pectin um, that's
(13:36):
a structural fiber or or like starch that that helps
things gel or or stabilize, like it's used in jelly making.
And basically what's happening happening there is that it can
form like a sort of soft mesh that um that
traps water and stuff and adds support within that that mixture.
Other fibrous fruit and vegetables like like mango or banana
(13:58):
can work similarly, So all of those can can help
you achieve that creamy texture UM. And of course in
industrial settings or in your own kitchen, UM, you can
add just just plain pectin or other stabilizers to help
with all that. Various gums and seaweed derivatives and gelatine
all pop up in various recipes. Um and yeah, uh,
(14:20):
you freeze it and you eat it and it's delicious.
It's it can be eaten as a as a dessert
or a snack between courses in like Hope cuisine. Indeed,
which I guess brings us to a question we don't
always ask, uh huh, but we shall ask it for
this one sorbet, what isn't it? It is not share
(14:49):
bit um because share a bit in modern American English.
I'm saying that so carefully right now. Share. But um
that that word, no matter how many ards you put
in to it. Um, that means a frozen dessert with
some kind of dairy in the mix. Um like maybe
other stabilizers too, but definitely some dairy content. Mm hmm.
(15:12):
I think I have to do a lot of reflecting
after this. I think I need to really reflect on
things because I don't know, I don't know what I've
been up to, these calling your yeah, calling your whole
history into question. I know I needed Katie are coming
(15:33):
for you. We need to talk about some survet slash Sherbert. Well,
in the meantime, what about the nutrition? It depends on
what you put into it, like sugar. Sugar is a
treat it treats are nice, true, very true. Um. Well,
(15:53):
we have a singular number for you. Yeah, we have
like one number. Um. Okay. So, one industry analyst called
Prophecy Market Insights UM estimated that the global market for
sorbet is worth some six million dollars a year, or
(16:16):
was as of and was expecting it to double too,
over a billion in the next ten years from there. Wow. Yeah, okay, okay, uh.
And we've got quite a bit of history that led
us up to this point. Oh, we certainly do. And
we are going to get into that as soon as
(16:37):
we get back from a quick break. For a word
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you. So if ice desserts are a family tree,
which is something I think you and I could accomplish, Lauren,
(16:58):
we could make this tree. Oh yeah, so I want
to do that for everything. Okay, alright, alright, keep going, yes,
yes uh. The earliest ancestors of flavored ices traced back
to three thousand BC. E. Possibly to China, where we
get some of the first records of essentially ice creams
um and and remember, ice and cooled items in general
(17:22):
were difficult and expensive before the advent of refrigeration. Like it,
it required a lot of like going up mountains and
bringing down ice or creating very specialized cooling systems if
you were, for example, in the desert, in order to
work it out. Yeah, exactly. It was a pretty indulgent indulgence. Um.
(17:43):
Ice was used to cool drinks like wine in ancient
Rome and Greece, and ice houses existed in Mesopotamia as
far back as four thousand years ago, and these are
often seen as the forebears of srebeys um. Arabic people's
used ice to chill sharbot, which were these desserts of
(18:05):
sweet syrups mixed in ice water. Um. That is the
same root word that we got syrup from. Yeah, um
and sure. But when Arabic merchants and travelers made their
way to Italy, so too did these ice desserts. However,
Marco Polo frequently is credited with introducing ice cream to
(18:29):
Italy in the twelve hundreds. Ish um, yeah, yeah, and uh.
More modern versions of ice cream are thought to have
been largely invented in Italy and possibly France, depending on
the source you're you're looking at in the seventeen century. Um, okay,
so from Italy these ice cream styles spread throughout Europe
(18:52):
and perhaps particularly yes to France, giving way to French
style ice creams made with egg yolks and eater to
the American Philadelphia style which had no eggs are was
either egg whites only ice cream. The first recorded known
instance of the word ice cream took place in sixteen
(19:14):
seventy two. A few years earlier, in sixteen seventy Cafe
Procope opened in Paris and really helped boost the popularity
of ice cream and sorebetes. However, it's unclear what sorbet
really meant in France at that time. Um. According to
(19:34):
some sources, it was a sweet drink of lemon pulp
and sugar, which kind of reminds me of our lemonate episode. Um.
It seems there were two distinct types of sore bats
at this time in this region, one that was more
for the eating and one that was more for the drinking. Um.
(19:55):
And the one for the drinking was often alcoholic and
It's true that ice cream and water ices evolved and
grew around the same time. I feel like I personally
have a very distinct like this is a sorbey, this
is an ice cream. Historically that can be a bit messy,
but I feel like perhaps this was going on back then. Uh.
(20:18):
These water ices were multipurpose, sometimes served as standalone desserts,
as palate cleansers, or as simple refreshment. There's a popular
but very unverified legend that Catherine de Medici introduced ice
cream and surebeys. Oh I'm saying I I did it naturally,
(20:39):
um ice cream and sorbets to France and taught chefs
and cooks how to make them. Uh. In fact, Mrs
Beaton wrote in her book around this time, do ladies
know to whom they are indebted for the introduction of
ices which all the fair Sex are passionately fond of
Catherine day Medici. Mhm, I mean it's quite unquote mm hmmm.
(21:09):
With the Industrial Revolution, ices there's like ice cream and
sorbets exploded now with refrigeration to store them and a
whole world of new flavors to choose from. By the
eighteen hundreds, ice cream was popular in a lot of
places around the world, and by the nineteenth century some
fancy restaurants in Europe began offering like survey palate conser's
(21:34):
mid meal. Um, um, yeah, we're previously um, a liquor
would have been offered, or maybe a small glass of wine. Um.
We started seeing, actually, especially alcoholic um sorbets come into play. Yes,
yes we did, and at the time it may have
been a more direct descendant of the Arabic drink mentioned earlier.
(21:56):
Water and or fruit juice sweetened with honey and or sugar,
and cold with snow or ice. So not necessarily what
I personally would think of a sorbet today, but on
the track, um for sure. Somewhere in the eighteen eighties,
Mrs Marshall's Cookery book included this description about sorbet quote.
(22:18):
Under the term surby are now included those ices which
are served after the removes. They should be of a light,
semi frozen nature, having only just sufficient consistency to hold
together when piled up. This degree of solidity is a
natural consequence of their composition. For the sugar and spirit
among their ingredients, when properly prepared, will prevent them under
(22:41):
any circumstances becoming as sold as cream and water ices.
They are generally prepared by first making an ordinary lemon
water ice and adding to this some spirit, liquor or
syrup for flavoring, and fruit for the garnish, and are
named accordingly rum, ser bay, cherry, sorbet, and so on.
(23:02):
They are always served in cups or glasses, one for
each guest, and many very pretty designs are specially made
for this purpose. Yeah, so it sounds like it was
a nice You had your surveic thing in a nice cup,
a specifically designed cup. Why not? More more tableware is
(23:25):
what we need here. More tableware always all, always um.
Also in the nineteenth century, a bicarbonate white fizzy powder
of soda tutaric acid sugar, along with flavorings was invented. Uh.
This powder was used to make fizzy drinks reminiscent of
(23:46):
what Europeans believed to be sorbets, surebets, surveys. I don't know. Um. Yeah, So,
as the story goes, children pretty quickly figured out they
could just eat this powder, and from there we get
things like the Sorbey dab, basically a lollipop dipped in
(24:08):
this powder and sorbet fountains that sold the cylindrical packs
of the sorbe powder with a licorice straw for enjoying.
That sounds like things I had in my childhood. Maybe
not exactly the same, but kind of this, like dipping
in powder, sugar powder hopefully. In August Scoffier's work, The
(24:33):
Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery, he wrote, quote,
the sorbets and those other preparations which are derived from
them are very light ices, barely frozen, which are served
after the entree at a formal dinner. Their role is
that of refreshing the palate and to prepare the stomach
for the roast course, which will be served following the sorby.
(24:57):
In fact, a sorbet is both an appertif and an
aid to digestion. Yeah. I think it's it's a good
palate cleanser. I agree with that above all else. Um
Oh yeah, m hmm. Something nice, nice and light and
fresh and and and popping with flavor. Yeah, yes, yes,
(25:17):
es yes. As refrigeration became more widespread in homes, it
made ice desserts more accessible for consumers. Um and Serby's
popularity only grew because of that. Uh, since nineteen Baskin
and Robbins started offering sure Bay Survey with just one R.
(25:42):
Sure bit. I think it's just share bit. It's oh,
it doesn't match with my growing up Lauren. But yes, okay.
They went on to introduce iconic flavors like rainbow and
wild and reckless Sherbets, which I love, I love. And
when it comes to this extra R added to Sherbet,
(26:06):
some think that this is because of this nine song,
this been Homer hit called shoot the Sherbet to Me Herbert.
So they wanted to rhyme Sherbert and Herbert, and there
here we are. Yeah, well just just really or that
(26:26):
like it's funner to say Sherbert and Herbert than it
is to say Sherbert and Herbert um, or that it's
just funnier to say Sherbert in general, because right, like
we were talking about earlier, you've got those parallel rs
at the beginning or at the middle and end of
the word. And so it's just our silly brains. It's
(26:51):
just our silly brains doing silly stuff. And this is
how language changes all the time. Yes, there are several
words I know how to pronounce cly, but there's just
a way my brain prefers to pronounced. Yeah. Yeah, no,
it totally happens, um. And yeah, there was a there
was a very um. I think that this this note
(27:12):
actually comes from this very pointed UM Smithsonian magazine article
that was like implying that it sounds like low class
if you add an extra R in there. And I'm like, oh, well, ludidah, okay,
(27:32):
excuse me. Yeah, I'll see myself out. I think we're
all doing just fine. Um. But you know, just add
add extra rs wherever you want to. I can't stop,
you know, I this was a shocking development to me.
(27:55):
I'm going to be totally transparent. I've always said, Sherbet, Yeah,
I know that was not a thing. Oh, I've known
it wasn't a thing for a while. But I still
use the extra R because I'm I don't care. Oh, listeners,
I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. Yes,
(28:18):
let us know for sure. Oh goodness, Um at any rate, uh,
Sorbet specifically, Sorbet got a boost um in the nineteen
nineties when like low fat diets were really trending UM,
and have come around again in like the tens through
today with trends around uh vegan treats and like plant
(28:43):
based treats. Yeah. Yeah, because they're dairy free. They're you know,
supposed to be egg free generally, so yeah, they've checked
those boxes. Mm hmmm. And furthermore, sorbet is one of
the things that researchers have been investigating recently UM over
the past like ten years or so, as a as
(29:05):
a highly palatable food UM that you can add some
like macro and micronutrients to for patients who are struggling
with nutritional intake. UM. They're like, hey, people like eating this,
it's delicious. Just sneak a little protein in there, just
you know, just go ahead, yeah do it? Yeah, yeah,
(29:26):
that makes sense, right, And I'm all for it, all
for it. I couldn't when I was young, I couldn't
swallow a pill, so my mom would sneak them in
ice cream. Ye who's oh yeah cat you every time?
Yeah she did? What good? And I was always like, no, Mom,
(29:51):
I was very supicious, but I I did drink it.
It was good. We should do an episode on you.
Oh yes, oh yes, that's that's in the list, for sure.
It is. It is. But I think this is what
we have to say about Sourbay or Sherbet or surveys.
(30:13):
For now, it is um. But we do have some
listener mail for you and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from one
more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
(30:35):
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. We're back
with brain Freeze. Yeah. Yes, we should do an episode
on brain freeze. Oh yeah, I've got that one. We
(30:58):
did a brain stuff way back in the day. Got
you perfect, Perfect, I'm into it, can't wait. So we
have three short ones today. The first two are recipes
very excited to share. Starting with Cliff. Cliff wrote, I
(31:19):
started listening to Savor at work about a couple of
months ago, and I've really been enjoying the two of
you nerding out on food science and branding. Here's a
drink recipe I came up with last year, kind of
riffing off on a grony and a paloma, and I
think it tastes a bit like a fuzzy pomegranate juice.
Hits my name for it, fizzy palm. So the ingredients
(31:42):
are as follows. One and one half ounce apperall one
ounce sweet formouth, one ounce gin or vodka serve with
ice in a long glass, topped with four to six
ounces grapefruit soda. O. That sounds lovely. Yes, I want that.
(32:02):
I think that will be so refreshing. Yeah. And I'm
and I know this is like a really like hipster
thing to say, but I'm really into Vermouth right now. Yes,
I think our next D and D session we should.
It's been a long time since we've actually done like
a themed cocktail. We should. Yeah. Yeah, we usually just
(32:28):
make Joe McCormick make us um manhattan. No negronis negrownies
is what he's usually making. Yeah, that one. Yes, and
thank you Joe McCormick. Yeah, what a good host, what
a good human person? Yes, m mmm mmm mmm, so
thank you for that recipe. Here's another one. Ruth sent
(32:48):
as this recipe quote one ounce simple syrup, two ounce
lemon juice from concentrate, one lemon quartered, one leader lemon
flavored seltzer, a symbol and a picture. Stir carefully so
you don't get a phone over. Serve chilled over ice.
Add mutal strawberries if desired. That sounds good too. Oh,
(33:13):
both of these so refreshing. I'm definitely adding the strawberries.
I think the strawberries, Chris wrote in your listener mail
section of the recent Jerk episode, you reminded me of
one of my favorite jokes. What cheese do you use
to disguise a horse? A masker pony? Yeah, masca pony,
(33:37):
masker pony. Excellent, excellent joke, Chris continued, which is also
how it's pronounced with my English South African accent. Anyway,
I hope that helps, and thanks for reminding me of
a great joke. We do love some great jokes on here.
(33:59):
Let me tell you, we botch that reading like four
times four times for various reasons, but it made it
all the funnier when it finally happened. Uh. There's another.
Every time a storm comes through, y'all, our our internet
connections don't quite sync up and we're still talking over Skype,
(34:22):
so there's a lot of just long pauses while we're
waiting for the other one to catch up. Like literally,
right now, I'm waiting for Annie to come back to me.
Yeah there we are, There we are, we go. Yeah,
pretty cool, pretty good, pretty good. But that aside, Thank
(34:45):
you so much for jokes and recipes, y'all. Yes, honestly, yes,
thank you so much. We will make these. I will
probably tell this joke at a party. Oh, I have
a party coming up because super producer Andrew is having
a birthday. Yeah, yeah, Andrew. Um, and maybe I'll tell
(35:09):
the joke and pretend you have to pretend you have
never heard it. Okay, Oh, got you anytime? Yeah? Perfect?
Thank you. Um. But yes, we do love jokes, recipes, messages, um.
And if you want to send any of those things
to us, you can our email as hello at sabor
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
(35:31):
find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod
and we do hope to hear from you. Sabor is
production of iHeart Radio four more podcasts from my Heart Radio.
You can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren vog Obam, and today
we have an episode for you about sorbet. Oh yes,
oh yes, And I have come to many revelations researching
this one. Uh, Lauren, did you have any particular reason
(00:29):
this one was on your mind? I don't know, it's
it's summer. I was like, what's the summer thing? And
then I was like, oh, what would be so refreshing
right now while I'm thinking about what's a summer thing?
Is a sorbet? And then I was like, oh, hey,
maybe we haven't done that yet. And then I had
(00:51):
to like triple check and we had yes yes, which
we will talk about more at length than a second
because frequently listeners these topics go in and out when
we do them, so sometimes we don't remember which topics
we have covered and which ones we have not. And
(01:14):
that's just okay. We're both doing fine. Absolutely yes. Uh
are you do you like sorbet? Oh? I love a sorbet.
I love every frozen type of dessert really. Um. I
also love and ice cream and granita and uh sure, sherbet, sherbet.
(01:40):
We don't know it's correctly sherbet, But I've literally never
said that before right now, Like in my life, agreed,
I've always put the second are in there. This is
one of my revelations I had researching this podcast because
I've always said sure Bert, which apparently is sort of
(02:02):
an accidental thing that happened. We're going to touch on
it more in the history section. But it was like,
it's not really a thing. Silly English English speakers just
want to put that second ar in there. Yeah, I
like a second R. I like I like a second R.
I have. My strongest memory of sorbet is that my
(02:30):
one of my best friends Katie, who I've talked about
on this show before. Um, when we were growing up,
she loves desserts. She always wanted desserts. She always wanted
forbee um, and I always wanted like chocolate ice cream,
a rocky road like I really okay, very different in
(02:51):
our frozen treat preferences. But it was just a thing
like she would always try to find the sorbet to
be rainbow colored and be so pretty, and I would
be like, oh that's pretty, but I don't want it. Um.
It was just like we had very different tastes. I
think it's a good way of saying it. But every
(03:12):
time I think of Survey, I think of her and
her love of this like very colorful, bright, yeah iced
dessert that she just adored. She adored it. Oh, I
mean I I love a rocky road. I love a
(03:34):
chocolate ice cream base. I just also like, I get
so excited when I see like, like a fresh batch
of like a like a mango sorbet come out for
the first time in a year, and I'm like, oh,
the mango crab came in and the local place is
making the good mango sorb. Yes, a fruit dessert, A
(03:57):
fruit dessert is a lovely thing. I just I just
like food. Yeah, I like, And I have quite a
sweet too. So I'll have to show you. I have
my post sit notes, as I've told you, where I
just keep track of what people like, and I have
one for you. And you're very like bitter and fruity
(04:20):
based a lot of things you've told me. I'm like, yeah, yeah,
I could see a sherbet or sorbet fitting in there. Sure. Yeah.
Uh So you can see our episodes on Gelato and
Sunday's Popsicles. I don't think we've actually done ice cream. No, no,
(04:44):
we haven't because I've been avoiding it. Um, I feel
I feel like it's too much. But then I suggested this, Um,
i'm which is also kind of a lot. So I
don't know, and I feel like, I guess, I'm I'm
trying to like chip away at the at the outer
extremities of ice cream so that it's easier when we
actually get there. But yeah, you can also see our
(05:06):
episodes on dipping dots, on milkshakes, on on ice in general.
I guess, yeah, sure, sure, Well, I guess this brings
us to our question, sure, sorbet? What is it? Well? Uh,
(05:28):
A sorbet, as we use the word today, is a
type of frozen dessert or snack or or refreshment that's
made just with water, sugar, and flavoring like period fruit
or vegetables or herbs, or beverages like juice or wine
or coffee. Um, all of that churned and chilled until
(05:48):
it's creamy, smooth and airy and and spoonable. And this
is a little counterintuitive because usually the stuff that makes
a frozen dessert creamy and or smooth are ingredients that
sorbets don't contain like cream or or eggs um, which
also helps prevent sorbet from being heavy or stiff in
(06:13):
the way that like ice cream, which does contain cream
and eggs can be heavy or stiff. Sorbet is like
a like a slushy or a smoothie that's substantial enough
to scoop. Um. It's like it's like the soft crystal
form of any given flavor element, Like like like time
(06:33):
and care has been taken to create this perfect structure
with with the base element of that flavor. Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah,
it's like it's like it's like Steven Universe in a cone. Oh,
I bet that's a flavor that exists. Oh goodness, Oh
(06:54):
I'm sure. I'm sure someone's done it. I love that show.
Oh ostensibly kids cartoons that make me cry, I love
them anyway. Sorbets, yes, uh. Many sorbets are fruit based
(07:16):
or are in fact like just fruit and sugar frozen
um generally four parts fruit to one part sugar. That's
that's the like accepted ratio. UM. But you can really
use anything that contains both water and sugar, like including
just water and sugar. UM. The third ingredient is air.
(07:40):
Oh this makes me want to do like a captain planet.
Which element are you quiz? Oh? Oh no? Okay, all right, um,
for a later date perhaps I'm pretty sure of those
I was air anyway. Okay, alright, so Sorbet, Yes, I'm concentrating,
(08:05):
I promise. Uh. Sorbet is churned like an ice cream
to simultaneously freeze the water sugar flavoring batter and to
mix in tiny air bubbles to a to support the structure.
And key to this consistency is getting your ingredients in
a balance. And also you're freezing technique just right to
(08:29):
create like we tiny ice crystals, uh, tiny enough that
they feel creamy, not not grainy or gritty. And here
here's where we come to crystal science. Yeah, okay. When
a substance goes from a liquid state to a solid
(08:50):
state a k a. When it freezes, um, it's molecules
canfirm and structure up together in a number of different
ways that depend on a number a factors, like the
size of your sample of liquid like is it a
picture of liquid or like a remicin worth of liquid
yea um, And the surface area of your sample like
(09:12):
even if it's just a ramicin worth is it in
a cylindrical ramicin or is it like spread out over
a sheet pan? All right? Um? And then also the
temperature at which you are freezing it, um, Like is
it at the freezing point of the liquid or like
just a little bit below that or like way below that? Yeah. Yeah,
(09:33):
you've probably witnessed this in your own kitchen any number
of times when you've made ice cubes or popsicles, and
you noticed how like the shape and size of the
tray affected the freeze time and and and freeze pattern,
like whether the center was still gushy when the outsides
were totally frozen, if like a skin maybe froze on
top of the ice cubes first, something like that, yeah,
(09:53):
or um, or maybe if you've popped a drink in
the freezer to chill it down and then it came
out with like big slushy ice crystals it um or heck,
if you live in an area where it snows, you've
seen the difference between like the fine powder of a
of a super cold blustery snow, um versus the big
(10:13):
wet flakes of a mild weather snow. And of course
you might have experimented directly with this. If you've ever
like made uh granitas or ice creams or candies from
sugar syrup. Yeah, uh okay uh. Crystals form when molecules
(10:35):
line up and and lock together in particular ways. Um.
Generally speaking, mild temperatures and long periods of time and
like being left the heck alone will allow molecules to
build on each other in a way that forms like
big chunky crystals. Yeah. And now this is what you're
(10:56):
looking for when you're trying to make like a like
a large clear ice cube for your for your fancy
cocktail or or I don't know, like a like a
diamond gem. Um. And that's a reference to something we
haven't published yet forthcoming. Um. But this is the opposite
of what you're trying to do with a sorbet Um.
You're looking for tiny ice crystals, so you're using cold
(11:19):
temperatures quickly with lots of agitation. Um. And one of
the cool things about crystals. There's a lot of cool
things about crystals. One of them is that the presence
of a crystal in a liquid will seed the formation
of more crystals under the right circumstances. And this is
for complicated physics physics reasons that I do not entirely
(11:41):
understand um very over Simply, nucleation theory has a lot
to do with the random interaction of molecules um and
so like providing a base or or like like almost
like an example, crystal kind of encourages the rest of
the molecules to follow suit. That is such an oversimplification,
(12:05):
but again we're talking about sorbet, all right. If you're
making a sorbet, uh, you want to seed your crystallization
by freezing a small portion of your like water sugar
flavoring solution first like like quick and cold, and then
add that to your to your churn, your your machine
or whatever and uh and just whip the heck out
(12:27):
of it to incorporate air um. And Okay, the the
ingredients that you're using can either trip you up or
like sort of help you cheat. Okay. The sugar in
a sorbet is actually key to the texture because in
a solution with water, sugar kind of like blocks large
(12:51):
ice crystals from forming because while small water molecules will freeze,
the sugar molecules will not, and will sort of like
elbow those little ice crystals around, like keep a little
distance there, you know, yeah yeah yeah, um. And the
sugar in your flavoring counts, so like if you're using
a sweet fruit, that will that will affect the balance. Um.
(13:13):
Also if you put alcohol in their alcohol also lowers
the freezing temperature of your mixture, which means that you'll
have to get it colder for longer in order to
freeze up properly, or maybe use less sugar. All kinds
of balances you can work out there. Um. However, on
the flip side, when you use fruit like say raspberries
or apples that contain a bunch of pectin um, that's
(13:36):
a structural fiber or or like starch that that helps
things gel or or stabilize, like it's used in jelly making.
And basically what's happening happening there is that it can
form like a sort of soft mesh that um that
traps water and stuff and adds support within that that mixture.
Other fibrous fruit and vegetables like like mango or banana
(13:58):
can work similarly, So all of those can can help
you achieve that creamy texture UM. And of course in
industrial settings or in your own kitchen, UM, you can
add just just plain pectin or other stabilizers to help
with all that. Various gums and seaweed derivatives and gelatine
all pop up in various recipes. Um and yeah, uh,
(14:20):
you freeze it and you eat it and it's delicious.
It's it can be eaten as a as a dessert
or a snack between courses in like Hope cuisine. Indeed,
which I guess brings us to a question we don't
always ask, uh huh, but we shall ask it for
this one sorbet, what isn't it? It is not share
(14:49):
bit um because share a bit in modern American English.
I'm saying that so carefully right now. Share. But um
that that word, no matter how many ards you put
in to it. Um, that means a frozen dessert with
some kind of dairy in the mix. Um like maybe
other stabilizers too, but definitely some dairy content. Mm hmm.
(15:12):
I think I have to do a lot of reflecting
after this. I think I need to really reflect on
things because I don't know, I don't know what I've
been up to, these calling your yeah, calling your whole
history into question. I know I needed Katie are coming
(15:33):
for you. We need to talk about some survet slash Sherbert. Well,
in the meantime, what about the nutrition? It depends on
what you put into it, like sugar. Sugar is a
treat it treats are nice, true, very true. Um. Well,
(15:53):
we have a singular number for you. Yeah, we have
like one number. Um. Okay. So, one industry analyst called
Prophecy Market Insights UM estimated that the global market for
sorbet is worth some six million dollars a year, or
(16:16):
was as of and was expecting it to double too,
over a billion in the next ten years from there. Wow. Yeah, okay, okay, uh.
And we've got quite a bit of history that led
us up to this point. Oh, we certainly do. And
we are going to get into that as soon as
(16:37):
we get back from a quick break. For a word
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you. So if ice desserts are a family tree,
which is something I think you and I could accomplish, Lauren,
(16:58):
we could make this tree. Oh yeah, so I want
to do that for everything. Okay, alright, alright, keep going, yes,
yes uh. The earliest ancestors of flavored ices traced back
to three thousand BC. E. Possibly to China, where we
get some of the first records of essentially ice creams
um and and remember, ice and cooled items in general
(17:22):
were difficult and expensive before the advent of refrigeration. Like it,
it required a lot of like going up mountains and
bringing down ice or creating very specialized cooling systems if
you were, for example, in the desert, in order to
work it out. Yeah, exactly. It was a pretty indulgent indulgence. Um.
(17:43):
Ice was used to cool drinks like wine in ancient
Rome and Greece, and ice houses existed in Mesopotamia as
far back as four thousand years ago, and these are
often seen as the forebears of srebeys um. Arabic people's
used ice to chill sharbot, which were these desserts of
(18:05):
sweet syrups mixed in ice water. Um. That is the
same root word that we got syrup from. Yeah, um
and sure. But when Arabic merchants and travelers made their
way to Italy, so too did these ice desserts. However,
Marco Polo frequently is credited with introducing ice cream to
(18:29):
Italy in the twelve hundreds. Ish um, yeah, yeah, and uh.
More modern versions of ice cream are thought to have
been largely invented in Italy and possibly France, depending on
the source you're you're looking at in the seventeen century. Um, okay,
so from Italy these ice cream styles spread throughout Europe
(18:52):
and perhaps particularly yes to France, giving way to French
style ice creams made with egg yolks and eater to
the American Philadelphia style which had no eggs are was
either egg whites only ice cream. The first recorded known
instance of the word ice cream took place in sixteen
(19:14):
seventy two. A few years earlier, in sixteen seventy Cafe
Procope opened in Paris and really helped boost the popularity
of ice cream and sorebetes. However, it's unclear what sorbet
really meant in France at that time. Um. According to
(19:34):
some sources, it was a sweet drink of lemon pulp
and sugar, which kind of reminds me of our lemonate episode. Um.
It seems there were two distinct types of sore bats
at this time in this region, one that was more
for the eating and one that was more for the drinking. Um.
(19:55):
And the one for the drinking was often alcoholic and
It's true that ice cream and water ices evolved and
grew around the same time. I feel like I personally
have a very distinct like this is a sorbey, this
is an ice cream. Historically that can be a bit messy,
but I feel like perhaps this was going on back then. Uh.
(20:18):
These water ices were multipurpose, sometimes served as standalone desserts,
as palate cleansers, or as simple refreshment. There's a popular
but very unverified legend that Catherine de Medici introduced ice
cream and surebeys. Oh I'm saying I I did it naturally,
(20:39):
um ice cream and sorbets to France and taught chefs
and cooks how to make them. Uh. In fact, Mrs
Beaton wrote in her book around this time, do ladies
know to whom they are indebted for the introduction of
ices which all the fair Sex are passionately fond of
Catherine day Medici. Mhm, I mean it's quite unquote mm hmmm.
(21:09):
With the Industrial Revolution, ices there's like ice cream and
sorbets exploded now with refrigeration to store them and a
whole world of new flavors to choose from. By the
eighteen hundreds, ice cream was popular in a lot of
places around the world, and by the nineteenth century some
fancy restaurants in Europe began offering like survey palate conser's
(21:34):
mid meal. Um, um, yeah, we're previously um, a liquor
would have been offered, or maybe a small glass of wine. Um.
We started seeing, actually, especially alcoholic um sorbets come into play. Yes,
yes we did, and at the time it may have
been a more direct descendant of the Arabic drink mentioned earlier.
(21:56):
Water and or fruit juice sweetened with honey and or sugar,
and cold with snow or ice. So not necessarily what
I personally would think of a sorbet today, but on
the track, um for sure. Somewhere in the eighteen eighties,
Mrs Marshall's Cookery book included this description about sorbet quote.
(22:18):
Under the term surby are now included those ices which
are served after the removes. They should be of a light,
semi frozen nature, having only just sufficient consistency to hold
together when piled up. This degree of solidity is a
natural consequence of their composition. For the sugar and spirit
among their ingredients, when properly prepared, will prevent them under
(22:41):
any circumstances becoming as sold as cream and water ices.
They are generally prepared by first making an ordinary lemon
water ice and adding to this some spirit, liquor or
syrup for flavoring, and fruit for the garnish, and are
named accordingly rum, ser bay, cherry, sorbet, and so on.
(23:02):
They are always served in cups or glasses, one for
each guest, and many very pretty designs are specially made
for this purpose. Yeah, so it sounds like it was
a nice You had your surveic thing in a nice cup,
a specifically designed cup. Why not? More more tableware is
(23:25):
what we need here. More tableware always all, always um.
Also in the nineteenth century, a bicarbonate white fizzy powder
of soda tutaric acid sugar, along with flavorings was invented. Uh.
This powder was used to make fizzy drinks reminiscent of
(23:46):
what Europeans believed to be sorbets, surebets, surveys. I don't know. Um. Yeah, So,
as the story goes, children pretty quickly figured out they
could just eat this powder, and from there we get
things like the Sorbey dab, basically a lollipop dipped in
(24:08):
this powder and sorbet fountains that sold the cylindrical packs
of the sorbe powder with a licorice straw for enjoying.
That sounds like things I had in my childhood. Maybe
not exactly the same, but kind of this, like dipping
in powder, sugar powder hopefully. In August Scoffier's work, The
(24:33):
Complete Guide to the Art of Modern Cookery, he wrote, quote,
the sorbets and those other preparations which are derived from
them are very light ices, barely frozen, which are served
after the entree at a formal dinner. Their role is
that of refreshing the palate and to prepare the stomach
for the roast course, which will be served following the sorby.
(24:57):
In fact, a sorbet is both an appertif and an
aid to digestion. Yeah. I think it's it's a good
palate cleanser. I agree with that above all else. Um
Oh yeah, m hmm. Something nice, nice and light and
fresh and and and popping with flavor. Yeah, yes, yes,
(25:17):
es yes. As refrigeration became more widespread in homes, it
made ice desserts more accessible for consumers. Um and Serby's
popularity only grew because of that. Uh, since nineteen Baskin
and Robbins started offering sure Bay Survey with just one R.
(25:42):
Sure bit. I think it's just share bit. It's oh,
it doesn't match with my growing up Lauren. But yes, okay.
They went on to introduce iconic flavors like rainbow and
wild and reckless Sherbets, which I love, I love. And
when it comes to this extra R added to Sherbet,
(26:06):
some think that this is because of this nine song,
this been Homer hit called shoot the Sherbet to Me Herbert.
So they wanted to rhyme Sherbert and Herbert, and there
here we are. Yeah, well just just really or that
(26:26):
like it's funner to say Sherbert and Herbert than it
is to say Sherbert and Herbert um, or that it's
just funnier to say Sherbert in general, because right, like
we were talking about earlier, you've got those parallel rs
at the beginning or at the middle and end of
the word. And so it's just our silly brains. It's
(26:51):
just our silly brains doing silly stuff. And this is
how language changes all the time. Yes, there are several
words I know how to pronounce cly, but there's just
a way my brain prefers to pronounced. Yeah. Yeah, no,
it totally happens, um. And yeah, there was a there
was a very um. I think that this this note
(27:12):
actually comes from this very pointed UM Smithsonian magazine article
that was like implying that it sounds like low class
if you add an extra R in there. And I'm like, oh, well, ludidah, okay,
(27:32):
excuse me. Yeah, I'll see myself out. I think we're
all doing just fine. Um. But you know, just add
add extra rs wherever you want to. I can't stop,
you know, I this was a shocking development to me.
(27:55):
I'm going to be totally transparent. I've always said, Sherbet, Yeah,
I know that was not a thing. Oh, I've known
it wasn't a thing for a while. But I still
use the extra R because I'm I don't care. Oh, listeners,
I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this. Yes,
(28:18):
let us know for sure. Oh goodness, Um at any rate, uh,
Sorbet specifically, Sorbet got a boost um in the nineteen
nineties when like low fat diets were really trending UM,
and have come around again in like the tens through
today with trends around uh vegan treats and like plant
(28:43):
based treats. Yeah. Yeah, because they're dairy free. They're you know,
supposed to be egg free generally, so yeah, they've checked
those boxes. Mm hmmm. And furthermore, sorbet is one of
the things that researchers have been investigating recently UM over
the past like ten years or so, as a as
(29:05):
a highly palatable food UM that you can add some
like macro and micronutrients to for patients who are struggling
with nutritional intake. UM. They're like, hey, people like eating this,
it's delicious. Just sneak a little protein in there, just
you know, just go ahead, yeah do it? Yeah, yeah,
(29:26):
that makes sense, right, And I'm all for it, all
for it. I couldn't when I was young, I couldn't
swallow a pill, so my mom would sneak them in
ice cream. Ye who's oh yeah cat you every time?
Yeah she did? What good? And I was always like, no, Mom,
(29:51):
I was very supicious, but I I did drink it.
It was good. We should do an episode on you.
Oh yes, oh yes, that's that's in the list, for sure.
It is. It is. But I think this is what
we have to say about Sourbay or Sherbet or surveys.
(30:13):
For now, it is um. But we do have some
listener mail for you and we are going to get
into that as soon as we get back from one
more quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
(30:35):
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. We're back
with brain Freeze. Yeah. Yes, we should do an episode
on brain freeze. Oh yeah, I've got that one. We
(30:58):
did a brain stuff way back in the day. Got
you perfect, Perfect, I'm into it, can't wait. So we
have three short ones today. The first two are recipes
very excited to share. Starting with Cliff. Cliff wrote, I
(31:19):
started listening to Savor at work about a couple of
months ago, and I've really been enjoying the two of
you nerding out on food science and branding. Here's a
drink recipe I came up with last year, kind of
riffing off on a grony and a paloma, and I
think it tastes a bit like a fuzzy pomegranate juice.
Hits my name for it, fizzy palm. So the ingredients
(31:42):
are as follows. One and one half ounce apperall one
ounce sweet formouth, one ounce gin or vodka serve with
ice in a long glass, topped with four to six
ounces grapefruit soda. O. That sounds lovely. Yes, I want that.
(32:02):
I think that will be so refreshing. Yeah. And I'm
and I know this is like a really like hipster
thing to say, but I'm really into Vermouth right now. Yes,
I think our next D and D session we should.
It's been a long time since we've actually done like
a themed cocktail. We should. Yeah. Yeah, we usually just
(32:28):
make Joe McCormick make us um manhattan. No negronis negrownies
is what he's usually making. Yeah, that one. Yes, and
thank you Joe McCormick. Yeah, what a good host, what
a good human person? Yes, m mmm mmm mmm, so
thank you for that recipe. Here's another one. Ruth sent
(32:48):
as this recipe quote one ounce simple syrup, two ounce
lemon juice from concentrate, one lemon quartered, one leader lemon
flavored seltzer, a symbol and a picture. Stir carefully so
you don't get a phone over. Serve chilled over ice.
Add mutal strawberries if desired. That sounds good too. Oh,
(33:13):
both of these so refreshing. I'm definitely adding the strawberries.
I think the strawberries, Chris wrote in your listener mail
section of the recent Jerk episode, you reminded me of
one of my favorite jokes. What cheese do you use
to disguise a horse? A masker pony? Yeah, masca pony,
(33:37):
masker pony. Excellent, excellent joke, Chris continued, which is also
how it's pronounced with my English South African accent. Anyway,
I hope that helps, and thanks for reminding me of
a great joke. We do love some great jokes on here.
(33:59):
Let me tell you, we botch that reading like four
times four times for various reasons, but it made it
all the funnier when it finally happened. Uh. There's another.
Every time a storm comes through, y'all, our our internet
connections don't quite sync up and we're still talking over Skype,
(34:22):
so there's a lot of just long pauses while we're
waiting for the other one to catch up. Like literally,
right now, I'm waiting for Annie to come back to me.
Yeah there we are, There we are, we go. Yeah,
pretty cool, pretty good, pretty good. But that aside, Thank
(34:45):
you so much for jokes and recipes, y'all. Yes, honestly, yes,
thank you so much. We will make these. I will
probably tell this joke at a party. Oh, I have
a party coming up because super producer Andrew is having
a birthday. Yeah, yeah, Andrew. Um, and maybe I'll tell
(35:09):
the joke and pretend you have to pretend you have
never heard it. Okay, Oh, got you anytime? Yeah? Perfect?
Thank you. Um. But yes, we do love jokes, recipes, messages, um.
And if you want to send any of those things
to us, you can our email as hello at sabor
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
(35:31):
find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod
and we do hope to hear from you. Sabor is
production of iHeart Radio four more podcasts from my Heart Radio.
You can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way
Savor News
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