July 9, 2021 • 45 mins
This simple cocktail – composed of gin, sweet vermouth, and Campari (or another bright amaro) – has a complicated backstory. Anney and Lauren dip into the culture and history of the negroni.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to save her production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obaum, and today
we're talking about the NEGRONI Yes, another cocktail hour. Yes,
as always with these, drink responsibly. Um. I will say
negronies now make me think of dongeons and dragons. Yes.
(00:31):
Thanks to Joe McCormick over at Stuff to Blow your Mind,
who is a part of our campaign. He always makes
negronies for us should we desire them. He's been he's
been hosting over at his house and has just been
delightfully crafting negronis for us while we play. Yes, it's wonderful.
(00:53):
I was trying to explain it to him the first
time we were playing, where I was like, I don't
have have like gin, so this is a step up
for me. I'm very excited about what's happening now. Appreciative. Also,
he always hands them to me and says thanks d M.
And I'm oh, Joe, this is very very very sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(01:21):
we we we were talking before we started recording, and
yet but neither of us have the ingredients to make
a negrowny. Both of us only have gin, so it's
it could be like a deconstructed negrowny. That's what I'm
calling it. Yes, no, I I very much have a
craving that I'm hoping the next time we play Dune
(01:43):
and Dragons, which is soon. We haven't played in a minute,
so hopefully soon it will be it will be satiated. Um.
It also reminds me of back when we had happy
hours at our office, when when we were going to
into an office before the pandemic and we you to
have like a place in our building that would do
these Monday happy hours in a Yeah, oh gosh, I
(02:07):
missed the Mercury that was such a great bar. Yes,
and also built on Bard would do liquid blunch they had,
oh I know, but they had grownies as well as
a part of that. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's
interesting because it's it's a drink that, as we've done
(02:27):
this research has made me miss the social times. Yeah,
I would drink it absolutely. Yeah, It's not a It's
not a thing I've ever really made at home. I'll
make like a Manhattan at home. I went through a
pretty serious Manhattan period during the first part of lockdown
or did not lockdown shut down anyway, that that that
sounded way more serious than even it was second there, um,
(02:51):
but yeah, yeah no, And then I quickly realized that
I shouldn't do that. I should not have the means
to make myself a Manhattan at home at any given
point in time, because I'll just drink Manhattan's which wild tasty,
you know, like again, drink responsibly. The growny there there,
There isn't a growny week mm hmm. This is a
(03:13):
corporately designed kind of holiday week um that is nonetheless
pretty delightful. Um. It is shifted over the years east
to be in June, but in t it's happening in
September this year it will be September, so we're ahead
of the curve for once. That's definitely what we intended
(03:34):
plant uh yes, um and uh for for kind of
like a like a like a base to this episode.
You can also see our episode on tomorrow from October,
which includes a lovely ghost story read by not us
(03:55):
It's very old Gods of Appalachia, plus our previous cocktail hours,
especially the Gin and Tonic episode which we classiced in July.
Savor Verb created by Lauren Vogelbaum. Classic. That's what we did,
yes then our episode is a really fun one too,
(04:17):
So I really both of those are or two that
I reference in my own I know a lot of
you listeners right in there, like, oh, when I'm at
a party, I bring up this fact. Oh yeah, yeah,
same same. Um. And especially in the tomorrow episode, we uh,
we interview the lovely folks at a Rhine which is
(04:38):
a distillery out of Asheville, which we got to visit
while we were up there. And um, and that in
the ghost story and question is the story that that
inspired their name? And yeah, I especially as at a
Rhine has gotten wider distribution. Um. I've just been just
been talking them up to to to all kinds of humans, um,
(04:59):
and loved doing that great great stuff. Oh I need
some okay, alright, cool, all right, Well, before we go
too far down the path of desire, perhaps we should
get to our question. I guess. So the Negroni what
is it? Well, the New Growny is a cocktail made
(05:21):
with gin, sweet formouth and a type of amorrow called kempari.
Traditionally you can put other stuff in there, but that's
the basic basic stuff. Um. It is garnished with a
slice of orange or a strip of orange peel, the
latter sometimes flamed. It can be served chilled and straight
up or over ice. A single large cube is pretty popular.
(05:43):
And it's it's the drink is smooth and bitter, sweet
and herbal, a little bit spicy um or or spiced,
I guess rather, but with this brightness underneath. And not
to get like two poetic on y'all, like right off
the bat, but it just it tastes like a like
a some or night. I should have a next time
(06:05):
we play Dungeons and Jagons, I should have some kind
of like poetry off no where you have to describe
the NEGRONI and I shall judge from my dungeon master position.
Oh gosh, that would be something that Ben Bolan would
be amazing at, and that I would be like, give
me a few weeks and I'll come up with an
(06:27):
amazing entry. I feel like all of you are really
excellent at coming up with some perhaps less than traditional poetry,
but poetry not of us. We are a poetic group.
It's true. It's true. So let's let's let's break down
(06:50):
all of those ingredients a little bit. So um so
Jin is a type of liquor made with a neutral
spirit that's then infused with any number of botanicals during
and or after installation. The primary and necessary botanical is juniper,
which is sort of bright and piney tasting, but generis,
all have their own complex blends of herbs and spices
(07:11):
and bibers, all have their own personal preferences. Some common
editions include a liquorice or a niece, cinnamon, citrus, peel, nutmeg, saffron, savory,
all kinds of barks and bits and uh stuff, yes,
but basically Jin's are piney and dry, with with other
(07:32):
urban spice notes in there. Vermouth is a type of
wine that has been infused with various botanicals like wormwood, saffron, coriander, camemeal,
and or juniper um, and then fortified with a little
bit of neutral spirit like um like unaged brandy. The
sweet type of vermouth is also sometimes called red vermouth
or Italian vermouth because it is red and it originated
(07:56):
in Italy. We say this every time we mentioned vermouth,
but like we're gonna have to do a whole episode
or like few episodes on it at some point forthcoming. Uh,
And yeah, they can range quite a bit in final effect. Um,
but they're they're kind of semi sweet, too sweet, and
sort of savory herbal with a little bit of like
drying tannin on the palate. Compari Um is a type
(08:19):
of Amorrow Tomorrow, being a broad category of liqueurs that
are made with any number of botanicals. Um. They're a
little bit sweet like vermouth, and more bitter than either
gin or vermouth would be generally. Compari is a particular
brand made with this proprietary recipe of over sixty herbs
and fruit peels and tasty tree barks and etcetera. It's
(08:40):
this brilliant translucent orange red in color um with an
emphasis on like orange ey lemony kind of notes. It's
on the dry side and has like sweet and savory
herbs in there. It's also the original liquor that spawned
the sprawling Campari group Beverage Empire, which owns everything from
sky vodka to espalone to wild Turkey. Today. Dang, yeah, yeah,
(09:07):
they're going places the orange so in in cocktails, a
strip of orange peel, sometimes called a zest or twist,
is taking just the bright, aromatic oil filled part of
an orange skin off with a sharp knife or another tool.
Um leaving behind the bitter white pith and depending on
the orange in question, um, dropping this in a drink
(09:28):
or rubbing it on the rim or whatever. We'll add
a bright kind of floral citrus bitter scent to the
drink and a tiny bit of oil on top on
the pallet. And you can also hold an orange strip
to an open flame for a few seconds to chart
slightly and add kind of deeper bitter flavors and caramel
flavors to to what you're doing. Um, it's nice, it's
(09:48):
flashy in a bar. Don't set yourself on fire. Um.
But but the result of all of this, um is Yeah,
just a glassful of like bitter sweet herbs and sit
chris and spices. And because of the inclusion of a
tomorrow and sweet vermouth, it's often been considered a pre
dinner drink to like to like stimulate the stomach or
(10:11):
the digestive system. But it's evolved into like an any
time sort of cocktail. Yes, hm uh. The generally accepted
recipe calls for equal parts gin, vermouth and campari, but
of course people like to argue about whether a different
ratio is better, and there are all kinds of riffs
(10:32):
on it. Um some variations that I would argue wander
into like whole different but related drink territory. But I'm not.
I'm not going to tell you what you can and
can't call your drinks. Yeah you can. You can use
different kinds of vermouth, different kinds of amari, or orange
liquor elements and orange wedge right instead of a peel.
(10:53):
You can top it with soda. You can add a
few dashes of bitters. You can add an egg and
shake it to make a flip. You can use different
based liquors than gin. You can add sweeteners or sourers.
You can serve it frozen. You can put fruit in it.
Like it's a saying area. I can't tell you not
to um. Some called boulevardier a spin on the Negroni,
and I guess, to be fair, it is technically a
(11:15):
Negroni with bourbon instead of gin. I feel like New
Orleans would have something to say about that, though. No never,
But yeah, you can. You can do any number of
things with this basic concept of the cocktail. Yeah, I
guess I'd have to look into the history of the
(11:37):
boulevardier to wonder if the Negroni is a spin. Oh
that's true. Another day I don't fair conjecture, but does
not dare do it? Uh? What about the nutrition drink responsibly? Yes,
(12:00):
that's it. Yeah, um numbers, we do have some for you,
we do, we do. It's the Negroni is the second
best selling drink in the world by some accounts. I
couldn't really nail down specifics, but yeah, as of the
twenty teens, it started ranking way up there in surveys
(12:21):
and polls that some of these like like bar associations, um,
not legal bar associations like bar tender associations started conducting
or I mean, I guess I didn't consult any legal
bar associations, so I can't tell you. Oh man, well
we should back, we should. Um. Negroni Week is uh.
(12:44):
The aforementioned kind of corporate holiday is a is a
marketing slash fundraising thing created by the Kompari Company in
collaboration with Inbibe magazine and uh yeah. During during this week,
bars and restaurants around the world will feature negronisum and
growny inspired cocktails and then make donations hypothetically like a
portion of the proceeds of of the sales of these
(13:06):
drinks to one or more of that year's official charitable causes,
and in return will be featured in like central marketing pushes. UM.
It's pretty fun and or slightly exhausting. UM, but yeah,
like over twelve thousand venues now participate every year. They've
raised a near about three million dollars for charities in
(13:26):
less than a decade UM and a seven hundred nine
thousand dollars of that was in alone. Yeah. I definitely
encountered a growning week and I'm like, okay, get en. Yeah,
I'm like, you don't really have to twist my arm,
that's fine, but here I am. I'm happy to to
(13:47):
get one if it is a growning week. UM. A
video of actors Stanley Tucci making it a grony during
lockdown went viral. Oh Stanley Tucci, Oh my whole nerd heart,
Oh my goodness. Uh yeah, all right, so this this
video if you if you haven't seen it, and actually
I hadn't, UM, but I was delighted to go down
(14:10):
this rabbit hole. So this video has been viewed one
point one million times on his Instagram account UM and
has been reposted various places. For example, it's got another
six point two million views on Twitter. Uh. There is
a lot of thirst, uh drink thirst and Tucci thirst
surrounding this video. And also, how did I miss that
(14:33):
he does like a lot of cooking and cocktails. I'm
so out of touch. He's got two cookbooks out already,
You're out of Tucci Heck, he's also got a memoir
coming out in October called Taste My Life through Food. Uh,
Stanley Tucci call us, we can really boost your profile.
(14:55):
You get all the savor. You're gonna go to the shop, kid,
D's either either both both. In the words of Orson Wells,
the bidders are excellent for your liver, the gin is
(15:16):
bad for you. They balance each other. Um. And if
James Bond wasn't feeling the Martini, he might go for
under Groomy or perhaps a related cocktail, the Americano Um.
This is a predecessor to the Negroni That um doesn't
(15:36):
have gin, but rather soda water plus the sweet vermouth
and the campari, and is served on the rocks with
a lemon wedge, UM, making it like lighter and more summary. Uh. Yeah.
In the very first Bond book, Um, he's in this
French cafe, and and author Ian Fleming is setting him
up is being like confident and sophisticated and like a
(15:57):
little bit flamboyant. Um. You know, he would never have
whiskey or vodka in in such a place, but he
goes for an Americano. So never um. The the aforementioned
built on bar, the liquid lunch they used to do.
I think it wasn't a grony, but it might have
(16:18):
been an Americano, but it would It said something in
the description along the lines of like what James Bond
really drank? And I was like, I don't know, okay,
but hey, that did come up in several sources. People
brought this up, so yeah, yeah, now you know, um,
(16:42):
we do have a lot of mysterious and interesting history
for you behind this one. Oh and as with any
Cocktail Hour, yes we do. Um. But first we've got
a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and
(17:04):
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes
see r GIN episode. It's really good required listening for
this one. Yeah yeah. In short history of jin, the
Dutch were creating this juniper flavored spirit called Jennifer by
about fifteen hundreds which would branch into Jin's over the
(17:26):
next few centuries. The predecessors to Vermouth also began around
the same time, but in Italy, um and what we
now know as Sweet Vermouth developed in the late seventeen hundreds. There,
Campari was invented in eighteen sixty, which is of course
a key ingredient for the Negroni UM. It came out
of this Melanese establishment called Cafe Kompari, where one Gaspare
(17:50):
Kompari blended his personal eponymous tomorrow um tinted brilliant red
using carmine, which is this food grade die made from
crushed cockneil bugs HM. Also used in lipstick in early days.
Oh yeah yeah, still still used in some things UM
(18:10):
not vegan applications. Campari itself would switch to a lab
created substitute for most markets UM in two thousand and six.
But anyway, UM and then oranges. Oranges have been grown
in the Mediterranean since around a thousand CE. We've got
an episode on those two. So many episodes, yes, And
(18:31):
as with all of our cocktail hours, this one has
multiple origin stories, all of them a bit on the
marque side. The most popular one goes thus Lee in Florence, Italy,
in count Camillo, a Groni as bartender force go Scarceli
over at Cafe Cassoni to make his Americano stronger by
(18:55):
swapping out the usual soda water with gin. Scarsella allegedly
did so and went one further, using an orange garnish
in the place of the typical lemon in an Americano.
Scarselia's creation was popular and it became a go to
for cocktail drinkers, so the story goes. By some historical accounts,
(19:16):
this iteration had only a few drops of jin though. Yes,
and this the Groning Fellow led an interesting life after leaving.
After arriving in the US in a while in his twenties,
he apparently spent some time traveling across the country as
a cowboy. He also earned a name for himself as
(19:40):
a banker and a well known riverboat gambler. Okay, Yes,
historians think it was the time he spent living in London,
and specifically London's gin scene, that led to him potentially
creating one of the most well known cocktails of our time. Okay.
(20:03):
The Negroni family did not wait long to found the
Negroni distillery in nineteen nineteen and Italy. They manufactured and
sold a ready for consumption Negroni UM under the name
Antiko Negroni, and this distillery is still open to this day.
Although I visited their website and if I was saying
(20:26):
I had invented the Negroni, I would put that out
right in front. They didn't really seem to do that. Okay,
they would really give a date, because I was just
trying to clarify, like, did this actually happen in nineteen nineteen. Oh,
their website did not make it readily clear. But hey,
(20:48):
you know, you know it's still up and running. And yes,
there isn't a lot of evidence to back this whole
story up, even though it is the one that is
told the most often. But they're there are some really
fun tidbits that come up when people are talking about
it UM. For instance, in nineteen twenty one, Francis Harper wrote,
(21:10):
I'm assuming to count Negroni. It wasn't wasn't clear, but
I think so Okay. Quote, my dear Negroni, you say
you can drink smoke, and I am sure laugh just
as much as ever, I feel that you are not
much to be pitied, you must not take more than
twenty Negronis in one day. Goodness, oodness, I agree. I
(21:36):
agree with that advice. Yes, I do as well. But
twist mm hmmm. A descendant of the Negroni family named
nol Negroni has spoken out about this whole thing, claiming
that it was in fact Corsican general Pascal Olivier den
Negroni Dicardi who invented the drink, and that there was
(21:56):
no Count Negroni at all. Yeah, so okay, So this
story places the creation of the Negroni not in Italy
at all, but in Senegal um and earlier, like perhaps
in the eighteen sixties. Yes, and this Pascal fellow also
led an interesting life as a veteran of the Franco
(22:20):
Prussian War. He was eighteen when he joined at the
French army in eighteen forty seven. In eighteen seventy he
received recognition as the officer of the Legion of Honor.
He spent time as a prisoner of war and was
promoted to brigadier general in eighteen eighty four. Five years later,
in eighteen eighty nine, he was named Commander of the
Legion of Honor. He retired in eighteen ninety one, but
(22:41):
before all of this, he apparently maybe it had something
to do with creating the Negroni. From eighteen fifty five
to eighteen sixty four he served as a base commander
in Senegal, and during this time he wrote a letter
to his brother that read, incidentally, did you know that
the verm Bace cocktail that I invented in St. Louis
(23:02):
is a great hit at the Lunaville Officers Club? If
that's true, I love the Incidentally, Incidentally, incidentally, Like now
that we've talked about much more important things, let's throw
a tidbit in here that's going to confound historians centuries later,
including US podcasters who are just trying to get the
(23:27):
bottom of the negroty. Oh okay, alright, So so, so
I was so I was wrong when I said in Senegal,
because that that's a version of the story that I
had read. But this makes it sound like it wasn't
there at all, but rather later, uh maybe into the
eighteen seventies in the United States. Anyway, we don't know. Well,
(23:54):
we're trying our best to present the facts, but we're
doing what we can um for they're backing up this
whole story are alleged accounts of people who worked in
bars and in medicine at the time in Senegal who
sided the Negroni and the quote French army captain who
created it. Reportedly, some of these stories even claimed that
(24:16):
the drink was created with the help of Pascal's wife.
So who knows, we don't, we don't, We're we're reporting
the many faceted facts, Yes, many faceted. A kaleidoscope of
the Groni. Uh. Author of the Negroni Gas Reagan, believes
(24:41):
that the Negroni comes from a drink dating back to
the eighteen sixties called the Milano Torino, which was itself
a derivation of the Trino Mulano. Okay, I don't know. Uh.
These drinks got their name from the geographic location of
their base ingredients Campari from a lawn and tomorrow cora
from to in um and this drink or these drinks
(25:03):
are believed to have been invented in the eighteen sixties
in Milan at Cafe camp Arino. Visiting affluent Americans may
have requested so to water and their Milano torino's, resulting
in the Americano separate episode. I'm sure um, or possibly
it was just renamed Americano because Americans liked it. Could
(25:24):
have been and it could have been any number of
all of these. There were a lot of Italian bartenders
in trance in the nineteen twenties. Campari, the company was
also hardcore marketing to the French market at this time,
and from this came a drink called the Campari Cardinal
in n which was really close to a Negroni. The
(25:48):
Campari Mixed Day in Night was even closer. Within a year,
over a half dozen bars in Paris were making something
similar to these drinks. Yeah yeah, Campari brand was holding
these cocktail competitions in Paris around that time, and so
I think that that's where some of these some of
these drinks got their start. Rights UM and Nina Wilcox Putnam,
(26:13):
who was an author, screenwriter and calmness Um. She wrote
in ninety three All Gaul was divided in three parts,
one part Gin, one part formouth in, one part Italian Bidders.
Which is interesting because UM, as as with a lot
of these episodes, I'll be researching something and then I'm like, Okay,
(26:36):
here we go, here's the date, and then I'll research
something else and it's like, no, okay, this is the date.
And a part of this was really confusing because a
lot of the people who have written about the history
of the Negroni are specifically looking for the history of
the equal parts recipe, which, according to most sources, did
(26:57):
not happen until much later. But this, like quote from
this author, sounds like there you go, that's that's it,
right there, that's it. But other sources do not report
this to be the case. Um recipes from nineteen four
and nineteen forty three, you suggest that drinks similar to
(27:18):
the Negroni have been around, if not in the name,
for a lot longer than perhaps we thought, and perhaps
called the Campara nette Um. There's even a printed recipe
from nine that is essentially the agroni, just under a
different name. Some have even linked the invention of the
Negroni to uh an eight American recipe. Mm hmmm. That
(27:44):
being said, others argue the first written recipe that matches
are more modern understanding of the Negroni appeared in Floridita
Cocktails by Constantinto Constante Reba Yaga, which may have been
published in nineteen thirty nine or after World War two.
Food historians have tuck into that as well, which I love. Um.
This recipe is credited to Manuel Sanchez mess Bonds out
(28:08):
of Havana. It wasn't the equal parts recipe, though it
called for two parts remove one part gin and one
half part campari. The equal parts recipe first appeared in
print in in an Italian paper after a bar historian
discovered this recipe and cocktail's portfolio by a Medio gang Diglio. Um.
(28:33):
There was no date given on when that was written.
It's all a mess, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, lots
of yes, yes, lots of mess. Uh. The negroni may
have been accepted in the U s. As a part
of a fascination around New Italy. What was called New Italy. Uh,
(28:55):
something fancy and sophisticated in the eyes of American tourists,
something celebrities drink. There was a whole list of celebrities
that would drink the negroni that people would watch from
a foreign think, if only I could be like Audrey
Hepburn and the negroni. Um campari was a part of
this too. It was a bright light, not too strong
(29:16):
in terms of alcohol drink. It was easy to add
to things to spruce up your drink, and speaking of
Campari almost went completely under during the Wars, but by
nineteen fifty the company shipped a million leaders of their
product to Italian cities, with only nine leaders to the US.
(29:37):
Ship to the US. That didn't stop them from advertising
in the US. In nine of those million leaders in Italy,
though they seemed to be disproportionately consumed at two Italian
established including Cafe Rosatti, where had bartender Valentino Clementi claimed
(29:59):
that then a girl he was in fact a creation
of his Oh right, yes. In seven, the story goes
at a busy bartender in Milan accidentally poured prosecco instead
of gen wine, making a negroni, making what would become
known as a negroni sub bayato, which I've never heard of.
(30:22):
Have you heard of this? I hadn't until I did
the reading for this episode, and and it was one
of the main riffs on a negroni that I read about,
right up there next to the boulevardier. So sounds good, yeah,
oh yeah, no I I I love a cocktail that
has sparkling wine in it. Um in terms of I
(30:43):
mean it usually tastes delightful, and then after one, I'm like,
I'm never going to drink again. I Am going to
have water for the rest of my life in order
to make up for the delicious mistake I just made.
Right how I feel about French sefore times as well. Yeah, yeah,
it makes sense. Some historians and bartenders have chronicled the
(31:08):
dark ages of the negroni, one being during the World Wars,
and that this is specifically in Italy when jin was
tough to come by in that country, and the other
when drinks in general were suffering the seventies and nineties,
which we've discussed, yes, yes, which um affected the quality
of things like bidders and vermuse So people were getting
(31:30):
like really cheap bitters and really cheap vermouth. Um. According
to some Italian bartenders, ordering a negrony in Italy during
this time was the equivalent of an American ordering a
vodka red Bull in the two thousands. Um. Basically, yeah,
you were just looking to get trashed. Um. This all
(31:51):
changed with some marketing around bidders and Vermouth in the
nineteen nineties that in turn impacted the negrony. Some of
this advertising included celebrities like Charlie Siron And there's an
apparently infamous ad for Campari called Red Passion and I
watched it and yeah, I can't even explain it. Um wow?
(32:12):
Was that the didn't didn't like Felini do a bunch
of ads for them in the eighties? Was that part
of his run? Um? I don't know, Okay, I feel
like it's an ad. I can't explain without offending people.
Um goodness, I could be wrong, but I mean I
recommend watching it. I was shocked. I was shocked. Okay, dang,
(32:39):
I feel like I feel like you are relatively unflappable.
So so I was flapped. I was flapped. Yeah, okay,
So so what had happened was uh, Frederico Felini um
did this series of ads for Campari or possibly a
(33:00):
ad for kompari um in the eighties. I want to say,
like four, So, so your reaction to this, if y'all
are not familiar with his work, it is a lot
um in a beautiful way. Uh so so like SETI
con stuff like that is Felini. So if yeah, it was,
(33:23):
it was like that, mm hmmm, um, okay, I'll try
to give up. Brief description um, imagine you're watching you
think you're watching a perfume man. Okay, because it's that
same kind of like pursuit, like very heteronormative male female
(33:47):
pursuit thing happening. And then they catch up there in
ball gowns. They're in a beautiful place, they catch up
with each other. One of them spills COMPARI the other
person read everywhere right. It turns out that the person
(34:08):
you think is the man is actually a woman, and
the person you think is a woman is actually a man.
Oh and that's the ad I I just was confused. Mostly, Yeah,
I surprised that is that is, to be fair, how
(34:28):
I feel watching his films. So yeah, that, yeah, seems
on par like standard yeah yeah, regular, yeah at any rate. Okay,
So Campari really leaned into this equal Parts Jesipe and
the two Thousands, which really helped the Growny emerge from
the dark ages of the eighties. Then the Growny's popularity
(34:52):
was also hopped along with a boost of the popularity
of Gin Yeah, and the company itself really revamped during
the early two thousand's, starting with a number of beverage
brand acquisitions and parlaying that into all of these huge
marketing pushes see above re Imbibe and Compari starting up
(35:15):
Negroni Week. That happened in with just a hundred and
twenty participating venues. Originally they now have a hundred times that.
So good for that. Yeah, um was a digital only event,
but I believe it is going back to being partially
at least in person in Compari group through a whole
(35:37):
series of Negroni parties. In twenty nine to celebrate the
ostensible hundredth birthday of the Coroni hashtag and one hundred
that same year, an Italian documentary called Looking for Negroni debut.
I think it's out just this year in the United States. Um.
(35:58):
Also just this year, a whole book of the Growny
recipes was published. It's called The Growny. There you go,
There you go. I'm curious. I'm curious, willing to experiment
how many variations before it's no longer indo Growny? These
(36:19):
are deep questions we must ask. I'm not. It's it's
like it's like a Theseus's ship paradox, you know, yes,
exactly like that growny with a cocktail. There is a
white hair growny, just like uh white vision. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(36:46):
Oh goodness. Can I can I tell you my favorite
joke that that my friend Adam Penave made on Twitter,
like a couple of days after that episode of One
Division came out. Please He was like, actually, PCEs ship
is destil I bet two listeners got that and for
(37:09):
you too. That was for you, That was for that
was for y'all. You're welcome everyone else. I'm sorry, Uh,
explaining that would only make it worse, that would become
a like endeavor, um, but I really appreciate it. That's
pretty funny. Well, you're welcome. Thank you. The three of
(37:34):
you are welcome. So perhaps clearly this is all we
have to say about the NEGRONI today. Yes, yes, for now,
but we do have some listener mail for you. We do,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
(38:03):
thank you, and we're back with listen. It's an intense
cheers trying to remember the voices people do in D
and D or Stanley Tucci voice. There were a lot
of things that going on in my brain, so you know, um,
(38:29):
John wrote an apologies in advance because there's a lot
of pronunciation in this. I'm gonna try my best. Oh goodness,
Oh okay, alright, yeah, yes, um Annie and the group episode.
You mentioned a Chinese tea in a red can with
yellow lettering. This maybe it in Wikipedia search for Wong
Low Cat, and it has photos of four such cans.
(38:50):
Three cans of the same writing, but the third can
is captioned three hundred and ten milli eaters. Red can
version produced by j D B named j d b
Um it has different Chinese writing. An Amazon US search
of wang Low Cat brings up a result, and so
does Wangloge herbal Tea. Those characters match four cans from
(39:12):
the Wikipedia entry. I love this. This is like a
detective search. Um On Amazon, Jia Duo Boo herbal Tea
brings up the other can a t I had in
Sechuan restaurants and Western China had goji berries, rock sugar,
chrysanthemum flowers, tea and other stuff taste kind of similar
(39:32):
to the red yellow can. On Amazon, I founded search
for Sunny Hill Chinese herbal tea eight plants mixed chrysanthemum, hawthorn,
wolf berry, Cassia, hogsuckle, orangekill, gardenia single crystal rock sugar,
tim count tea bags. Wow, about nine dollars, so cheaper
than the cans. My favorite Chinese food usually a morning
(39:54):
street food. Actually, and a Google search says some Atlanta
restaurants have it is gien being ols thin crepe topped
with eggs, choice of spicy not spicy, sauces, green onion,
and bread sticks then and crispy. Are soft and fluffy
depends on the place, wrapped up into erect angle, eating
as a sandwich in China. Sending you names of things
(40:15):
for you to search wor sorry, um a bit of
work but safest. Thank you for being you. I've listened
to Sminty since the days of Kristin and Malia, Caroline,
Emily Eaves, wonderful Ladies. Also bridget is awesome, Annie and Samantha.
I love your work with Sminty, Keep it up. Thank you.
I donated money to one of the organizations mentioned in
(40:35):
an episode on voting in Georgia. Thank you. Yeah. I
probably heard about food Stuff Saver through and a during
Spinty episode about six years ago. Kristin and Caroline were
doing a live Facebook session and in the comments, I
entered something like good morning from Japan, and I nearly
fainted when Kristin said my name. I'm not into movies, gaming,
or a fan fiction, but I find those chats interesting,
(40:57):
a peek into stuff I'm not into, get a glimpse
of things out side of my little world. I love
all the last in the episodes. The pimento cheese episode
had been confused for quite a few minutes. I'm from
Minnesota and recall it a similar sandwich spread. But I've
lived most of my adult life in Japan and a
bit in China. Sminty and food stuff keep me connected
to the US in good ways, aware of issues I
(41:19):
didn't know about previously. Big thank you to everyone involved
in the podcast for all the work and being such
great people. Oh, thank you so much for listening. Oh
my goodness. Yes, it's so funny because when when people
say things like oh, when someone said my name, it's
so much to me. It means so much to us
when you write to as it really, yeah, yeah it is.
(41:41):
It is so it is incredible to me. Literally every
time someone is like, oh, hey I listened, I'm like
what and they're like oh, and I liked it. I'm like, really, like,
are our dungeons and dragons comments? Yes, yeah, it's like
it can it can be a really um like isolated
form of performance, uh doing podcasting because it's just me
(42:04):
and Annie on like a skype call. We're both just
in our houses. Yeah and yeah, it's just like after
this happens, does anyone actually listen to it? It's really
beautiful to hear from you all, um, and thank you
for your detective work on this. A lot of messages
about this can to you that I I've spoken about.
(42:26):
I'm very very excited to see if any of them
are correct. I suspect I suspect one of them must be. Yes, yes,
uh future legwork. But but good good, yes, good good
initial initial starching. Thank you so much, Um, Lucas wrote,
was listening to your episode on pimento cheese and it
(42:46):
brought back some happy memories. See pimento cheese has a
big part to play in the start of my wife's
and my relationship. There's a restaurant in Columbia, South Carolina,
where we were both attending seminary called De Patros, and
it had the most amazing pimento cheese. Dip with wonderfully
crispy on the outside, chewy on the inside pea chips
that we would always get. We had been good friends
(43:09):
for some time, but feelings were starting to change, and
I wanted to have a conversation with her about trying
out dating each other. This was the restaurant we went to,
and over pimento cheese dip and pia chips, we agreed
we liked each other, and the rest, as they say,
is history. Well, now we're both pastors in northwest Wisconsin
and in the town where she was serving, there was
(43:29):
a small town butchery grossery store called a Butchery Shop,
and what do you know, they sold pimento cheese. I
was so surprised when she came home with a container
of it because I'd always thought of pimento cheese as
a Southern thing, like y'all talked about in the episode.
Now it's a nice little reminder of the South. While
we're up here, on a kind of related note, I
wanted to see if y'all would be interested in an
(43:50):
episode on Loop Fisk. I serve a church that does
an annual supper centered on Loop Fisk, and there are
some die hard fans uh non, a Genarian has been
coming to the supper since it started seventy years ago.
I've heard it has a very different reception in Scandinavia,
like a lot of immigrant foods, so that might be cool.
(44:12):
Same with I'm not sure how to say this left
left see a kind of potato flatbread creepe. If you
haven't experienced it before, I have not um And, on
a decidedly unrelated note, I just wanted to share that
every time y'all open with the question and there's that
chime where Annie asks X y Z what is it?
I always picture a dramatic face turned to Lauren and
(44:35):
a raised eyebrow. I don't know if y'all do that,
but it's my head canon kinda. I always see like
a sweeping arm gesture. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a
really big it's a really big opening of the question. Yeah. Also,
I do I love hearing stories like this of like
(44:57):
we met or this a mo shual moment or big
key moment in your lifetime was over a food item
and now that food yes, forever associated, so wonderful, so
wonderful it is it is UM. Thanks to those listeners
for writing in. If you like to write to us,
you can our emails Hello at savor pod dot com.
(45:19):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is a production of our Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to save her production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obaum, and today
we're talking about the NEGRONI Yes, another cocktail hour. Yes,
as always with these, drink responsibly. Um. I will say
negronies now make me think of dongeons and dragons. Yes.
(00:31):
Thanks to Joe McCormick over at Stuff to Blow your Mind,
who is a part of our campaign. He always makes
negronies for us should we desire them. He's been he's
been hosting over at his house and has just been
delightfully crafting negronis for us while we play. Yes, it's wonderful.
(00:53):
I was trying to explain it to him the first
time we were playing, where I was like, I don't
have have like gin, so this is a step up
for me. I'm very excited about what's happening now. Appreciative. Also,
he always hands them to me and says thanks d M.
And I'm oh, Joe, this is very very very sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(01:21):
we we we were talking before we started recording, and
yet but neither of us have the ingredients to make
a negrowny. Both of us only have gin, so it's
it could be like a deconstructed negrowny. That's what I'm
calling it. Yes, no, I I very much have a
craving that I'm hoping the next time we play Dune
(01:43):
and Dragons, which is soon. We haven't played in a minute,
so hopefully soon it will be it will be satiated. Um.
It also reminds me of back when we had happy
hours at our office, when when we were going to
into an office before the pandemic and we you to
have like a place in our building that would do
these Monday happy hours in a Yeah, oh gosh, I
(02:07):
missed the Mercury that was such a great bar. Yes,
and also built on Bard would do liquid blunch they had,
oh I know, but they had grownies as well as
a part of that. Yeah, I don't know. It's it's
interesting because it's it's a drink that, as we've done
(02:27):
this research has made me miss the social times. Yeah,
I would drink it absolutely. Yeah, It's not a It's
not a thing I've ever really made at home. I'll
make like a Manhattan at home. I went through a
pretty serious Manhattan period during the first part of lockdown
or did not lockdown shut down anyway, that that that
sounded way more serious than even it was second there, um,
(02:51):
but yeah, yeah no, And then I quickly realized that
I shouldn't do that. I should not have the means
to make myself a Manhattan at home at any given
point in time, because I'll just drink Manhattan's which wild tasty,
you know, like again, drink responsibly. The growny there there,
There isn't a growny week mm hmm. This is a
(03:13):
corporately designed kind of holiday week um that is nonetheless
pretty delightful. Um. It is shifted over the years east
to be in June, but in t it's happening in
September this year it will be September, so we're ahead
of the curve for once. That's definitely what we intended
(03:34):
plant uh yes, um and uh for for kind of
like a like a like a base to this episode.
You can also see our episode on tomorrow from October,
which includes a lovely ghost story read by not us
(03:55):
It's very old Gods of Appalachia, plus our previous cocktail hours,
especially the Gin and Tonic episode which we classiced in July.
Savor Verb created by Lauren Vogelbaum. Classic. That's what we did,
yes then our episode is a really fun one too,
(04:17):
So I really both of those are or two that
I reference in my own I know a lot of
you listeners right in there, like, oh, when I'm at
a party, I bring up this fact. Oh yeah, yeah,
same same. Um. And especially in the tomorrow episode, we uh,
we interview the lovely folks at a Rhine which is
(04:38):
a distillery out of Asheville, which we got to visit
while we were up there. And um, and that in
the ghost story and question is the story that that
inspired their name? And yeah, I especially as at a
Rhine has gotten wider distribution. Um. I've just been just
been talking them up to to to all kinds of humans, um,
(04:59):
and loved doing that great great stuff. Oh I need
some okay, alright, cool, all right, Well, before we go
too far down the path of desire, perhaps we should
get to our question. I guess. So the Negroni what
is it? Well, the New Growny is a cocktail made
(05:21):
with gin, sweet formouth and a type of amorrow called kempari.
Traditionally you can put other stuff in there, but that's
the basic basic stuff. Um. It is garnished with a
slice of orange or a strip of orange peel, the
latter sometimes flamed. It can be served chilled and straight
up or over ice. A single large cube is pretty popular.
(05:43):
And it's it's the drink is smooth and bitter, sweet
and herbal, a little bit spicy um or or spiced,
I guess rather, but with this brightness underneath. And not
to get like two poetic on y'all, like right off
the bat, but it just it tastes like a like
a some or night. I should have a next time
(06:05):
we play Dungeons and Jagons, I should have some kind
of like poetry off no where you have to describe
the NEGRONI and I shall judge from my dungeon master position.
Oh gosh, that would be something that Ben Bolan would
be amazing at, and that I would be like, give
me a few weeks and I'll come up with an
(06:27):
amazing entry. I feel like all of you are really
excellent at coming up with some perhaps less than traditional poetry,
but poetry not of us. We are a poetic group.
It's true. It's true. So let's let's let's break down
(06:50):
all of those ingredients a little bit. So um so
Jin is a type of liquor made with a neutral
spirit that's then infused with any number of botanicals during
and or after installation. The primary and necessary botanical is juniper,
which is sort of bright and piney tasting, but generis,
all have their own complex blends of herbs and spices
(07:11):
and bibers, all have their own personal preferences. Some common
editions include a liquorice or a niece, cinnamon, citrus, peel, nutmeg, saffron, savory,
all kinds of barks and bits and uh stuff, yes,
but basically Jin's are piney and dry, with with other
(07:32):
urban spice notes in there. Vermouth is a type of
wine that has been infused with various botanicals like wormwood, saffron, coriander, camemeal,
and or juniper um, and then fortified with a little
bit of neutral spirit like um like unaged brandy. The
sweet type of vermouth is also sometimes called red vermouth
or Italian vermouth because it is red and it originated
(07:56):
in Italy. We say this every time we mentioned vermouth,
but like we're gonna have to do a whole episode
or like few episodes on it at some point forthcoming. Uh,
And yeah, they can range quite a bit in final effect. Um,
but they're they're kind of semi sweet, too sweet, and
sort of savory herbal with a little bit of like
drying tannin on the palate. Compari Um is a type
(08:19):
of Amorrow Tomorrow, being a broad category of liqueurs that
are made with any number of botanicals. Um. They're a
little bit sweet like vermouth, and more bitter than either
gin or vermouth would be generally. Compari is a particular
brand made with this proprietary recipe of over sixty herbs
and fruit peels and tasty tree barks and etcetera. It's
(08:40):
this brilliant translucent orange red in color um with an
emphasis on like orange ey lemony kind of notes. It's
on the dry side and has like sweet and savory
herbs in there. It's also the original liquor that spawned
the sprawling Campari group Beverage Empire, which owns everything from
sky vodka to espalone to wild Turkey. Today. Dang, yeah, yeah,
(09:07):
they're going places the orange so in in cocktails, a
strip of orange peel, sometimes called a zest or twist,
is taking just the bright, aromatic oil filled part of
an orange skin off with a sharp knife or another tool.
Um leaving behind the bitter white pith and depending on
the orange in question, um, dropping this in a drink
(09:28):
or rubbing it on the rim or whatever. We'll add
a bright kind of floral citrus bitter scent to the
drink and a tiny bit of oil on top on
the pallet. And you can also hold an orange strip
to an open flame for a few seconds to chart
slightly and add kind of deeper bitter flavors and caramel
flavors to to what you're doing. Um, it's nice, it's
(09:48):
flashy in a bar. Don't set yourself on fire. Um.
But but the result of all of this, um is Yeah,
just a glassful of like bitter sweet herbs and sit
chris and spices. And because of the inclusion of a
tomorrow and sweet vermouth, it's often been considered a pre
dinner drink to like to like stimulate the stomach or
(10:11):
the digestive system. But it's evolved into like an any
time sort of cocktail. Yes, hm uh. The generally accepted
recipe calls for equal parts gin, vermouth and campari, but
of course people like to argue about whether a different
ratio is better, and there are all kinds of riffs
(10:32):
on it. Um some variations that I would argue wander
into like whole different but related drink territory. But I'm not.
I'm not going to tell you what you can and
can't call your drinks. Yeah you can. You can use
different kinds of vermouth, different kinds of amari, or orange
liquor elements and orange wedge right instead of a peel.
(10:53):
You can top it with soda. You can add a
few dashes of bitters. You can add an egg and
shake it to make a flip. You can use different
based liquors than gin. You can add sweeteners or sourers.
You can serve it frozen. You can put fruit in it.
Like it's a saying area. I can't tell you not
to um. Some called boulevardier a spin on the Negroni,
and I guess, to be fair, it is technically a
(11:15):
Negroni with bourbon instead of gin. I feel like New
Orleans would have something to say about that, though. No never,
But yeah, you can. You can do any number of
things with this basic concept of the cocktail. Yeah, I
guess I'd have to look into the history of the
(11:37):
boulevardier to wonder if the Negroni is a spin. Oh
that's true. Another day I don't fair conjecture, but does
not dare do it? Uh? What about the nutrition drink responsibly? Yes,
(12:00):
that's it. Yeah, um numbers, we do have some for you,
we do, we do. It's the Negroni is the second
best selling drink in the world by some accounts. I
couldn't really nail down specifics, but yeah, as of the
twenty teens, it started ranking way up there in surveys
(12:21):
and polls that some of these like like bar associations, um,
not legal bar associations like bar tender associations started conducting
or I mean, I guess I didn't consult any legal
bar associations, so I can't tell you. Oh man, well
we should back, we should. Um. Negroni Week is uh.
(12:44):
The aforementioned kind of corporate holiday is a is a
marketing slash fundraising thing created by the Kompari Company in
collaboration with Inbibe magazine and uh yeah. During during this week,
bars and restaurants around the world will feature negronisum and
growny inspired cocktails and then make donations hypothetically like a
portion of the proceeds of of the sales of these
(13:06):
drinks to one or more of that year's official charitable causes,
and in return will be featured in like central marketing pushes. UM.
It's pretty fun and or slightly exhausting. UM, but yeah,
like over twelve thousand venues now participate every year. They've
raised a near about three million dollars for charities in
(13:26):
less than a decade UM and a seven hundred nine
thousand dollars of that was in alone. Yeah. I definitely
encountered a growning week and I'm like, okay, get en. Yeah,
I'm like, you don't really have to twist my arm,
that's fine, but here I am. I'm happy to to
(13:47):
get one if it is a growning week. UM. A
video of actors Stanley Tucci making it a grony during
lockdown went viral. Oh Stanley Tucci, Oh my whole nerd heart,
Oh my goodness. Uh yeah, all right, so this this
video if you if you haven't seen it, and actually
I hadn't, UM, but I was delighted to go down
(14:10):
this rabbit hole. So this video has been viewed one
point one million times on his Instagram account UM and
has been reposted various places. For example, it's got another
six point two million views on Twitter. Uh. There is
a lot of thirst, uh drink thirst and Tucci thirst
surrounding this video. And also, how did I miss that
(14:33):
he does like a lot of cooking and cocktails. I'm
so out of touch. He's got two cookbooks out already,
You're out of Tucci Heck, he's also got a memoir
coming out in October called Taste My Life through Food. Uh,
Stanley Tucci call us, we can really boost your profile.
(14:55):
You get all the savor. You're gonna go to the shop, kid,
D's either either both both. In the words of Orson Wells,
the bidders are excellent for your liver, the gin is
(15:16):
bad for you. They balance each other. Um. And if
James Bond wasn't feeling the Martini, he might go for
under Groomy or perhaps a related cocktail, the Americano Um.
This is a predecessor to the Negroni That um doesn't
(15:36):
have gin, but rather soda water plus the sweet vermouth
and the campari, and is served on the rocks with
a lemon wedge, UM, making it like lighter and more summary. Uh. Yeah.
In the very first Bond book, Um, he's in this
French cafe, and and author Ian Fleming is setting him
up is being like confident and sophisticated and like a
(15:57):
little bit flamboyant. Um. You know, he would never have
whiskey or vodka in in such a place, but he
goes for an Americano. So never um. The the aforementioned
built on bar, the liquid lunch they used to do.
I think it wasn't a grony, but it might have
(16:18):
been an Americano, but it would It said something in
the description along the lines of like what James Bond
really drank? And I was like, I don't know, okay,
but hey, that did come up in several sources. People
brought this up, so yeah, yeah, now you know, um,
(16:42):
we do have a lot of mysterious and interesting history
for you behind this one. Oh and as with any
Cocktail Hour, yes we do. Um. But first we've got
a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and
(17:04):
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes
see r GIN episode. It's really good required listening for
this one. Yeah yeah. In short history of jin, the
Dutch were creating this juniper flavored spirit called Jennifer by
about fifteen hundreds which would branch into Jin's over the
(17:26):
next few centuries. The predecessors to Vermouth also began around
the same time, but in Italy, um and what we
now know as Sweet Vermouth developed in the late seventeen hundreds. There,
Campari was invented in eighteen sixty, which is of course
a key ingredient for the Negroni UM. It came out
of this Melanese establishment called Cafe Kompari, where one Gaspare
(17:50):
Kompari blended his personal eponymous tomorrow um tinted brilliant red
using carmine, which is this food grade die made from
crushed cockneil bugs HM. Also used in lipstick in early days.
Oh yeah yeah, still still used in some things UM
(18:10):
not vegan applications. Campari itself would switch to a lab
created substitute for most markets UM in two thousand and six.
But anyway, UM and then oranges. Oranges have been grown
in the Mediterranean since around a thousand CE. We've got
an episode on those two. So many episodes, yes, And
(18:31):
as with all of our cocktail hours, this one has
multiple origin stories, all of them a bit on the
marque side. The most popular one goes thus Lee in Florence, Italy,
in count Camillo, a Groni as bartender force go Scarceli
over at Cafe Cassoni to make his Americano stronger by
(18:55):
swapping out the usual soda water with gin. Scarsella allegedly
did so and went one further, using an orange garnish
in the place of the typical lemon in an Americano.
Scarselia's creation was popular and it became a go to
for cocktail drinkers, so the story goes. By some historical accounts,
(19:16):
this iteration had only a few drops of jin though. Yes,
and this the Groning Fellow led an interesting life after leaving.
After arriving in the US in a while in his twenties,
he apparently spent some time traveling across the country as
a cowboy. He also earned a name for himself as
(19:40):
a banker and a well known riverboat gambler. Okay, Yes,
historians think it was the time he spent living in London,
and specifically London's gin scene, that led to him potentially
creating one of the most well known cocktails of our time. Okay.
(20:03):
The Negroni family did not wait long to found the
Negroni distillery in nineteen nineteen and Italy. They manufactured and
sold a ready for consumption Negroni UM under the name
Antiko Negroni, and this distillery is still open to this day.
Although I visited their website and if I was saying
(20:26):
I had invented the Negroni, I would put that out
right in front. They didn't really seem to do that. Okay,
they would really give a date, because I was just
trying to clarify, like, did this actually happen in nineteen nineteen. Oh,
their website did not make it readily clear. But hey,
(20:48):
you know, you know it's still up and running. And yes,
there isn't a lot of evidence to back this whole
story up, even though it is the one that is
told the most often. But they're there are some really
fun tidbits that come up when people are talking about
it UM. For instance, in nineteen twenty one, Francis Harper wrote,
(21:10):
I'm assuming to count Negroni. It wasn't wasn't clear, but
I think so Okay. Quote, my dear Negroni, you say
you can drink smoke, and I am sure laugh just
as much as ever, I feel that you are not
much to be pitied, you must not take more than
twenty Negronis in one day. Goodness, oodness, I agree. I
(21:36):
agree with that advice. Yes, I do as well. But
twist mm hmmm. A descendant of the Negroni family named
nol Negroni has spoken out about this whole thing, claiming
that it was in fact Corsican general Pascal Olivier den
Negroni Dicardi who invented the drink, and that there was
(21:56):
no Count Negroni at all. Yeah, so okay, So this
story places the creation of the Negroni not in Italy
at all, but in Senegal um and earlier, like perhaps
in the eighteen sixties. Yes, and this Pascal fellow also
led an interesting life as a veteran of the Franco
(22:20):
Prussian War. He was eighteen when he joined at the
French army in eighteen forty seven. In eighteen seventy he
received recognition as the officer of the Legion of Honor.
He spent time as a prisoner of war and was
promoted to brigadier general in eighteen eighty four. Five years later,
in eighteen eighty nine, he was named Commander of the
Legion of Honor. He retired in eighteen ninety one, but
(22:41):
before all of this, he apparently maybe it had something
to do with creating the Negroni. From eighteen fifty five
to eighteen sixty four he served as a base commander
in Senegal, and during this time he wrote a letter
to his brother that read, incidentally, did you know that
the verm Bace cocktail that I invented in St. Louis
(23:02):
is a great hit at the Lunaville Officers Club? If
that's true, I love the Incidentally, Incidentally, incidentally, Like now
that we've talked about much more important things, let's throw
a tidbit in here that's going to confound historians centuries later,
including US podcasters who are just trying to get the
(23:27):
bottom of the negroty. Oh okay, alright, So so, so
I was so I was wrong when I said in Senegal,
because that that's a version of the story that I
had read. But this makes it sound like it wasn't
there at all, but rather later, uh maybe into the
eighteen seventies in the United States. Anyway, we don't know. Well,
(23:54):
we're trying our best to present the facts, but we're
doing what we can um for they're backing up this
whole story are alleged accounts of people who worked in
bars and in medicine at the time in Senegal who
sided the Negroni and the quote French army captain who
created it. Reportedly, some of these stories even claimed that
(24:16):
the drink was created with the help of Pascal's wife.
So who knows, we don't, we don't, We're we're reporting
the many faceted facts, Yes, many faceted. A kaleidoscope of
the Groni. Uh. Author of the Negroni Gas Reagan, believes
(24:41):
that the Negroni comes from a drink dating back to
the eighteen sixties called the Milano Torino, which was itself
a derivation of the Trino Mulano. Okay, I don't know. Uh.
These drinks got their name from the geographic location of
their base ingredients Campari from a lawn and tomorrow cora
from to in um and this drink or these drinks
(25:03):
are believed to have been invented in the eighteen sixties
in Milan at Cafe camp Arino. Visiting affluent Americans may
have requested so to water and their Milano torino's, resulting
in the Americano separate episode. I'm sure um, or possibly
it was just renamed Americano because Americans liked it. Could
(25:24):
have been and it could have been any number of
all of these. There were a lot of Italian bartenders
in trance in the nineteen twenties. Campari, the company was
also hardcore marketing to the French market at this time,
and from this came a drink called the Campari Cardinal
in n which was really close to a Negroni. The
(25:48):
Campari Mixed Day in Night was even closer. Within a year,
over a half dozen bars in Paris were making something
similar to these drinks. Yeah yeah, Campari brand was holding
these cocktail competitions in Paris around that time, and so
I think that that's where some of these some of
these drinks got their start. Rights UM and Nina Wilcox Putnam,
(26:13):
who was an author, screenwriter and calmness Um. She wrote
in ninety three All Gaul was divided in three parts,
one part Gin, one part formouth in, one part Italian Bidders.
Which is interesting because UM, as as with a lot
of these episodes, I'll be researching something and then I'm like, Okay,
(26:36):
here we go, here's the date, and then I'll research
something else and it's like, no, okay, this is the date.
And a part of this was really confusing because a
lot of the people who have written about the history
of the Negroni are specifically looking for the history of
the equal parts recipe, which, according to most sources, did
(26:57):
not happen until much later. But this, like quote from
this author, sounds like there you go, that's that's it,
right there, that's it. But other sources do not report
this to be the case. Um recipes from nineteen four
and nineteen forty three, you suggest that drinks similar to
(27:18):
the Negroni have been around, if not in the name,
for a lot longer than perhaps we thought, and perhaps
called the Campara nette Um. There's even a printed recipe
from nine that is essentially the agroni, just under a
different name. Some have even linked the invention of the
Negroni to uh an eight American recipe. Mm hmmm. That
(27:44):
being said, others argue the first written recipe that matches
are more modern understanding of the Negroni appeared in Floridita
Cocktails by Constantinto Constante Reba Yaga, which may have been
published in nineteen thirty nine or after World War two.
Food historians have tuck into that as well, which I love. Um.
This recipe is credited to Manuel Sanchez mess Bonds out
(28:08):
of Havana. It wasn't the equal parts recipe, though it
called for two parts remove one part gin and one
half part campari. The equal parts recipe first appeared in
print in in an Italian paper after a bar historian
discovered this recipe and cocktail's portfolio by a Medio gang Diglio. Um.
(28:33):
There was no date given on when that was written.
It's all a mess, That's what I'm saying. Yeah, lots
of yes, yes, lots of mess. Uh. The negroni may
have been accepted in the U s. As a part
of a fascination around New Italy. What was called New Italy. Uh,
(28:55):
something fancy and sophisticated in the eyes of American tourists,
something celebrities drink. There was a whole list of celebrities
that would drink the negroni that people would watch from
a foreign think, if only I could be like Audrey
Hepburn and the negroni. Um campari was a part of
this too. It was a bright light, not too strong
(29:16):
in terms of alcohol drink. It was easy to add
to things to spruce up your drink, and speaking of
Campari almost went completely under during the Wars, but by
nineteen fifty the company shipped a million leaders of their
product to Italian cities, with only nine leaders to the US.
(29:37):
Ship to the US. That didn't stop them from advertising
in the US. In nine of those million leaders in Italy,
though they seemed to be disproportionately consumed at two Italian
established including Cafe Rosatti, where had bartender Valentino Clementi claimed
(29:59):
that then a girl he was in fact a creation
of his Oh right, yes. In seven, the story goes
at a busy bartender in Milan accidentally poured prosecco instead
of gen wine, making a negroni, making what would become
known as a negroni sub bayato, which I've never heard of.
(30:22):
Have you heard of this? I hadn't until I did
the reading for this episode, and and it was one
of the main riffs on a negroni that I read about,
right up there next to the boulevardier. So sounds good, yeah,
oh yeah, no I I I love a cocktail that
has sparkling wine in it. Um in terms of I
(30:43):
mean it usually tastes delightful, and then after one, I'm like,
I'm never going to drink again. I Am going to
have water for the rest of my life in order
to make up for the delicious mistake I just made.
Right how I feel about French sefore times as well. Yeah, yeah,
it makes sense. Some historians and bartenders have chronicled the
(31:08):
dark ages of the negroni, one being during the World Wars,
and that this is specifically in Italy when jin was
tough to come by in that country, and the other
when drinks in general were suffering the seventies and nineties,
which we've discussed, yes, yes, which um affected the quality
of things like bidders and vermuse So people were getting
(31:30):
like really cheap bitters and really cheap vermouth. Um. According
to some Italian bartenders, ordering a negrony in Italy during
this time was the equivalent of an American ordering a
vodka red Bull in the two thousands. Um. Basically, yeah,
you were just looking to get trashed. Um. This all
(31:51):
changed with some marketing around bidders and Vermouth in the
nineteen nineties that in turn impacted the negrony. Some of
this advertising included celebrities like Charlie Siron And there's an
apparently infamous ad for Campari called Red Passion and I
watched it and yeah, I can't even explain it. Um wow?
(32:12):
Was that the didn't didn't like Felini do a bunch
of ads for them in the eighties? Was that part
of his run? Um? I don't know, Okay, I feel
like it's an ad. I can't explain without offending people.
Um goodness, I could be wrong, but I mean I
recommend watching it. I was shocked. I was shocked. Okay, dang,
(32:39):
I feel like I feel like you are relatively unflappable.
So so I was flapped. I was flapped. Yeah, okay,
So so what had happened was uh, Frederico Felini um
did this series of ads for Campari or possibly a
(33:00):
ad for kompari um in the eighties. I want to say,
like four, So, so your reaction to this, if y'all
are not familiar with his work, it is a lot
um in a beautiful way. Uh so so like SETI
con stuff like that is Felini. So if yeah, it was,
(33:23):
it was like that, mm hmmm, um, okay, I'll try
to give up. Brief description um, imagine you're watching you
think you're watching a perfume man. Okay, because it's that
same kind of like pursuit, like very heteronormative male female
(33:47):
pursuit thing happening. And then they catch up there in
ball gowns. They're in a beautiful place, they catch up
with each other. One of them spills COMPARI the other
person read everywhere right. It turns out that the person
(34:08):
you think is the man is actually a woman, and
the person you think is a woman is actually a man.
Oh and that's the ad I I just was confused. Mostly, Yeah,
I surprised that is that is, to be fair, how
(34:28):
I feel watching his films. So yeah, that, yeah, seems
on par like standard yeah yeah, regular, yeah at any rate. Okay,
So Campari really leaned into this equal Parts Jesipe and
the two Thousands, which really helped the Growny emerge from
the dark ages of the eighties. Then the Growny's popularity
(34:52):
was also hopped along with a boost of the popularity
of Gin Yeah, and the company itself really revamped during
the early two thousand's, starting with a number of beverage
brand acquisitions and parlaying that into all of these huge
marketing pushes see above re Imbibe and Compari starting up
(35:15):
Negroni Week. That happened in with just a hundred and
twenty participating venues. Originally they now have a hundred times that.
So good for that. Yeah, um was a digital only event,
but I believe it is going back to being partially
at least in person in Compari group through a whole
(35:37):
series of Negroni parties. In twenty nine to celebrate the
ostensible hundredth birthday of the Coroni hashtag and one hundred
that same year, an Italian documentary called Looking for Negroni debut.
I think it's out just this year in the United States. Um.
(35:58):
Also just this year, a whole book of the Growny
recipes was published. It's called The Growny. There you go,
There you go. I'm curious. I'm curious, willing to experiment
how many variations before it's no longer indo Growny? These
(36:19):
are deep questions we must ask. I'm not. It's it's
like it's like a Theseus's ship paradox, you know, yes,
exactly like that growny with a cocktail. There is a
white hair growny, just like uh white vision. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
(36:46):
Oh goodness. Can I can I tell you my favorite
joke that that my friend Adam Penave made on Twitter,
like a couple of days after that episode of One
Division came out. Please He was like, actually, PCEs ship
is destil I bet two listeners got that and for
(37:09):
you too. That was for you, That was for that
was for y'all. You're welcome everyone else. I'm sorry, Uh,
explaining that would only make it worse, that would become
a like endeavor, um, but I really appreciate it. That's
pretty funny. Well, you're welcome. Thank you. The three of
(37:34):
you are welcome. So perhaps clearly this is all we
have to say about the NEGRONI today. Yes, yes, for now,
but we do have some listener mail for you. We do,
and we're going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
(38:03):
thank you, and we're back with listen. It's an intense
cheers trying to remember the voices people do in D
and D or Stanley Tucci voice. There were a lot
of things that going on in my brain, so you know, um,
(38:29):
John wrote an apologies in advance because there's a lot
of pronunciation in this. I'm gonna try my best. Oh goodness,
Oh okay, alright, yeah, yes, um Annie and the group episode.
You mentioned a Chinese tea in a red can with
yellow lettering. This maybe it in Wikipedia search for Wong
Low Cat, and it has photos of four such cans.
(38:50):
Three cans of the same writing, but the third can
is captioned three hundred and ten milli eaters. Red can
version produced by j D B named j d b
Um it has different Chinese writing. An Amazon US search
of wang Low Cat brings up a result, and so
does Wangloge herbal Tea. Those characters match four cans from
(39:12):
the Wikipedia entry. I love this. This is like a
detective search. Um On Amazon, Jia Duo Boo herbal Tea
brings up the other can a t I had in
Sechuan restaurants and Western China had goji berries, rock sugar,
chrysanthemum flowers, tea and other stuff taste kind of similar
(39:32):
to the red yellow can. On Amazon, I founded search
for Sunny Hill Chinese herbal tea eight plants mixed chrysanthemum, hawthorn,
wolf berry, Cassia, hogsuckle, orangekill, gardenia single crystal rock sugar,
tim count tea bags. Wow, about nine dollars, so cheaper
than the cans. My favorite Chinese food usually a morning
(39:54):
street food. Actually, and a Google search says some Atlanta
restaurants have it is gien being ols thin crepe topped
with eggs, choice of spicy not spicy, sauces, green onion,
and bread sticks then and crispy. Are soft and fluffy
depends on the place, wrapped up into erect angle, eating
as a sandwich in China. Sending you names of things
(40:15):
for you to search wor sorry, um a bit of
work but safest. Thank you for being you. I've listened
to Sminty since the days of Kristin and Malia, Caroline,
Emily Eaves, wonderful Ladies. Also bridget is awesome, Annie and Samantha.
I love your work with Sminty, Keep it up. Thank you.
I donated money to one of the organizations mentioned in
(40:35):
an episode on voting in Georgia. Thank you. Yeah. I
probably heard about food Stuff Saver through and a during
Spinty episode about six years ago. Kristin and Caroline were
doing a live Facebook session and in the comments, I
entered something like good morning from Japan, and I nearly
fainted when Kristin said my name. I'm not into movies, gaming,
or a fan fiction, but I find those chats interesting,
(40:57):
a peek into stuff I'm not into, get a glimpse
of things out side of my little world. I love
all the last in the episodes. The pimento cheese episode
had been confused for quite a few minutes. I'm from
Minnesota and recall it a similar sandwich spread. But I've
lived most of my adult life in Japan and a
bit in China. Sminty and food stuff keep me connected
to the US in good ways, aware of issues I
(41:19):
didn't know about previously. Big thank you to everyone involved
in the podcast for all the work and being such
great people. Oh, thank you so much for listening. Oh
my goodness. Yes, it's so funny because when when people
say things like oh, when someone said my name, it's
so much to me. It means so much to us
when you write to as it really, yeah, yeah it is.
(41:41):
It is so it is incredible to me. Literally every
time someone is like, oh, hey I listened, I'm like
what and they're like oh, and I liked it. I'm like, really, like,
are our dungeons and dragons comments? Yes, yeah, it's like
it can it can be a really um like isolated
form of performance, uh doing podcasting because it's just me
(42:04):
and Annie on like a skype call. We're both just
in our houses. Yeah and yeah, it's just like after
this happens, does anyone actually listen to it? It's really
beautiful to hear from you all, um, and thank you
for your detective work on this. A lot of messages
about this can to you that I I've spoken about.
(42:26):
I'm very very excited to see if any of them
are correct. I suspect I suspect one of them must be. Yes, yes,
uh future legwork. But but good good, yes, good good
initial initial starching. Thank you so much, Um, Lucas wrote,
was listening to your episode on pimento cheese and it
(42:46):
brought back some happy memories. See pimento cheese has a
big part to play in the start of my wife's
and my relationship. There's a restaurant in Columbia, South Carolina,
where we were both attending seminary called De Patros, and
it had the most amazing pimento cheese. Dip with wonderfully
crispy on the outside, chewy on the inside pea chips
that we would always get. We had been good friends
(43:09):
for some time, but feelings were starting to change, and
I wanted to have a conversation with her about trying
out dating each other. This was the restaurant we went to,
and over pimento cheese dip and pia chips, we agreed
we liked each other, and the rest, as they say,
is history. Well, now we're both pastors in northwest Wisconsin
and in the town where she was serving, there was
(43:29):
a small town butchery grossery store called a Butchery Shop,
and what do you know, they sold pimento cheese. I
was so surprised when she came home with a container
of it because I'd always thought of pimento cheese as
a Southern thing, like y'all talked about in the episode.
Now it's a nice little reminder of the South. While
we're up here, on a kind of related note, I
wanted to see if y'all would be interested in an
(43:50):
episode on Loop Fisk. I serve a church that does
an annual supper centered on Loop Fisk, and there are
some die hard fans uh non, a Genarian has been
coming to the supper since it started seventy years ago.
I've heard it has a very different reception in Scandinavia,
like a lot of immigrant foods, so that might be cool.
(44:12):
Same with I'm not sure how to say this left
left see a kind of potato flatbread creepe. If you
haven't experienced it before, I have not um And, on
a decidedly unrelated note, I just wanted to share that
every time y'all open with the question and there's that
chime where Annie asks X y Z what is it?
I always picture a dramatic face turned to Lauren and
(44:35):
a raised eyebrow. I don't know if y'all do that,
but it's my head canon kinda. I always see like
a sweeping arm gesture. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, there's a
really big it's a really big opening of the question. Yeah. Also,
I do I love hearing stories like this of like
(44:57):
we met or this a mo shual moment or big
key moment in your lifetime was over a food item
and now that food yes, forever associated, so wonderful, so
wonderful it is it is UM. Thanks to those listeners
for writing in. If you like to write to us,
you can our emails Hello at savor pod dot com.
(45:19):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is a production of our Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
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Anney Reese
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