May 16, 2024 • 31 mins
This crumbly mountain cheese may not melt, but it’s the perfect finishing touch on all kinds of snacks, sides, and meals. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of cotija cheese. (p.s. Since I forgot to say it in the episode, here you go: BACTERIA POOOOOOOOP --LV)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm one Bogel Bam, and today we have an episode
for you about cootiha cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, yes, fun with pronunciation For me, I will say.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I was looking for a cheese product, and I was
looking for a cheese product in the Americas, and I
was thinking about I was thinking about all of the
delicious things that we had when we were out in Vegas,
and so here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, yeah, we did have some delicious things out in Vegas,
and yeah, I mean Cottia cheese is something that I
have had and have loved, but I feel like it's
been since I move to Atlanta. Again, this is something
I'm sure existed in my small town, but I didn't
(01:06):
really have it or know that I had had it.
Yeah at the time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I'm not totally sure when I was first exposed
to it, because I feel like so much Mexican American
food and Caribbean American food is only kind of recently
available in a slightly more traditional way, with more traditional
products like this previous to ten or twenty years ago.
(01:36):
You know, it was just like like shredded American cheese
on every taco and site, and so right, yes the
Mexican blends maybe a Monterey Jack, sure right, but yeah, yeah,
nothing more interesting than that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So yes, well, speaking of you can see our past
cheese episodes. We have done many at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We have we have also perhaps tacos.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sure, yes, yes, definitely. I suppose that brings us to
our question, sure, Cottia cheese, what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, Kotilla is a type of hard cheese made from
cow's milk that's crumbly and salty, with like a milky,
grassy tartness and a little bit of funk. It can
be aged for a little for a softer, fresher cheese,
or a little more for a harder, dryer cheese. Either way,
it is not a melting cheese, like it'll soften when heated,
(02:36):
but it's never going to go gooey, So it's actually
absolutely ideal as a finishing cheese, like any probably savory
dish that you want to add a little burst of
a bright salty savory flavor to grate or crumble a
little bit of this on top salad sandwiches, casseroles, soups
and stews, roasted and stuffed veg or meat, street food,
(02:59):
and other snacks. It is powerfully salty, so you're not
usually using a lot, but it really sets off other
savory and bright flavors in a dish. It's like it's
like of a finishing salt where slightly softer and chonky
and non vegan. If if you've ever had a drink
(03:19):
served with a salted rim, it's sort of like the
first sip of that. But a cheese it's like a
It's like when you're swimming in salt water and you
get a little mouthful of it, but the water is
just so perfectly cool and the sun is so perfectly
bright that it's just like a little seasoning on your day.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That sounds lovely the com for people, Oh thank you Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Cheese is a concentration of the nutritious stuff in milk
that's then fermented, that is spoiled on purpose safely so
that it doesn't spoil accidentally and dangerously. And kotiha is
a traditionally raw milk cheese that's made without a starter
culture in local environmental conditions, meaning it depends on its
(04:19):
environment and production methods to become the tasty and safe
product that it is. Like, this is one of those
areas where art and science really meet. Cootilla cheese does
have a geographical indication in its native country, Mexico. We
talk about these sort of denominations of origin a lot,
especially in terms of stuff like cheese or wine. You know,
(04:39):
these like high value agricultural products that are cool specifically
because of their traditional production methods, but that have often
faced competition from industrially produced or counterfeit products. So there
is a set of rules by which a cheese that
earns the seal must be made, though the name isn't
generally protected internationally, so yeah, fun. Coltiha is named for
(05:06):
a city that came up on the edges of the
production region, which is kind of right on the border
of the states of Jalisco and Michokan. That's sort of
like west of Mexico City and south of Guadalajara. It's
a mountainous area with lots of vegetation and like temperate,
wet weather right around seventy degrees fahrenheit, like twenty one celsius.
You know, like perfect tech and weather. The cattle free
(05:28):
grays during the rainy late summer months July through October,
and the cheese is produced only during that season. To
do that, you take the raw milk, you filter it
and then put it in room temperature stainless steel vats,
then at enzymes that will coagulate it, that is, make
the curds, the fats and stuff separate from the way
(05:49):
the water and stuff you drain the way and need
the curds with raw rock salt from the coast of Kalima.
The cheese is pressed into wheels and turned for a
number of days to develop the rind, after which it's
ripened for at least three months, though it can be
allowed to age for a year or more. That ripening
(06:10):
length does mean that it's legal to sell in the
United States. Raw milk cheeses must be aged at least
sixty days to be sold here. When kotilla is soft,
it's a little bit like feta. When it's aged, it's
more like a pecorino romano kind of situation. A combination
of the way that the curds are treated and the
microbiome of the cheese leads to it being fine grained
(06:34):
and crumbly. Those microbes also give it a lot of
its flavor. The finished wheels are sort of medium sized,
about like forty centimeters across and twenty centimeters tall that's
about eight by sixteen inches, and will weigh around twenty
kilos that's forty five pounds. There are local variations within
the production area, including a version whose rind gets coated
(06:55):
in this paste made from dried chili's, garlic and vinegar.
Oh that sounds good. Yes, yeah, And all of that said,
there are industrial producers of cotilla style cheeses outside of
this production area, and that'll have kind of various qualities
and production processes due to being industrially produced not under regulation.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It is traditionally an ingredient in things like stuffed chili's,
as a topping for street food like alotes like which
is roasted corn, and stuff tacos, and on saucy dishes
like enchiladas or pasole. But you can use it in
pretty much anything, you know, add flavor to burgers or meatballs, yeah,
Sprinkle some on fresh fruit like melon for a burst
(07:45):
of salt, or use it in like a sweet and
savory chopped salad dressed with lemon juice and chili powder.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh yes, I did have stuck in my head throughout
this fish combat because it's such a good finishing cheese.
Oh yeah, I can see the cheese like grating on
top of a taco or something. Yeah, and that's the
killing blow it is. Oh, that's what's finished. So delicious. Yes, well,
(08:15):
speaking of what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Cheese is a nutrient dense food. That is the point
of cheese. You know, it's got a good punch of protein,
some fats and micronutrients in there. Drink water, eat a vegetable.
I will say there have been a few outbreaks of
food born illnesses traced to Kutsi Has style cheeses, but
as far as I'm aware, they're all linked to industrially
produced cheeses from outside of the region, usually made in
(08:42):
the US, which are like aged for less than two
months and obviously do not have the same microbiome going
as those traditionally produced cheeses.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right. Well, we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
As of two thousand and nine, about two hundred family
ranches in the region we're producing kotiha. These days, I
think it's more like ninety ranches produce about a ton
of cheese. Per year on average, using herds of around
just thirty five cows.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Recent research suggests that this is my favorite factor of
the episode. Recent research suggests that Kotiha cheese has one
of the most diverse microbiomes known to fermented products. It
contains three dominant genera of bacteria, but over five hundred
other genera of microorganisms, including yeasts. Again, the Kotiha region
(09:41):
is like relatively warm and humid, and the equipment that
it's produced on is frequently you know, like like wooden
boards and casks that have been passed down through generations.
And all of these factors allow the introduction of microbes
like these bacteria and yeasts that do so much for
the cheese. It is catching on in restaurants in the US.
(10:03):
It's inclusion on American menus increased by seventy seven percent
from twenty fourteen through twenty eighteen, bolstered by the popularity
of Mexican dishes like Alothus. However, as of twenty eighteen,
only fifteen percent of Americans had tried it. Wow yeah Yeah.
(10:24):
And twenty twenty four was the twenty fifth annual Cheese
Fair in the city of Kutilla. This happens in late
December to like celebrate and kind of like move the
batch of freshly released cheese that was started that summer. However,
my admittedly brief searching didn't turn up any particular details.
I think it's just yeah, like a bunch of a
(10:46):
bunch of ranchers come down and they're like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Cheese sounds great. I know, right, I'm into it. Listeners,
if you've been oh my goodness, got a lot of no.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, the town looks beautiful, the country side looks beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I yeah, oh maybe one day, maybe one day. But
before that day, we do have some history for you.
We do.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
But first we've got a quick break for a word
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes see our
past episodes on cheese and yogurtot Yeah, but essentially, yes,
many cheeses happened separately and simultaneously ish and often it
sounds like by accident. Most of those stories can't be
proven at all, but no, that is the popular story
(11:50):
that it's told. However, Kotilla is relatively new in the
cheese world. According to many sources, the history of Kotia
cheese can be traced back to colonization and what's now Mexico,
when the Spanish introduced to European cheese making techniques to
that area along with cows, and after discovering gold and
(12:11):
the mountains around a site called Kotilla, they set to
work mining it.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, Kotija eventually grew into a city, but it started
as this tiny settlement in the foothills in the fifteen hundreds.
To this day, you can find a lot of colonial
architecture there.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes. Meanwhile, sixteenth century ranchero's made Kotilla with cow's milk
in the mountains and carried it back to the town
via mule. During the rainy season, the roads could be impassable,
which led to the discovery that the cheese got better
with age. And yes, it came to be named after
the nearby town Kotiya. Other sources, though, claim that something
(12:52):
very similar to Kotia was being made in Mexico in
pre Hispanic times with sheep's milk. I couldn't find too
much about that, but I think worth mentioning. Over time,
cheese production in the region evolved to match the taste
of indigenous peoples, though with European influence from these adaptations
(13:13):
and experimentations, a whole umbrella of Mexican cheese is emerged.
Like Queso Fresco, almost all of them were produced with
cow's milk. Then kotilla got added to a bunch of
street foods and various localized dishes over time. Given that
it softened but didn't melt, it was a perfect addition
(13:34):
to things like tacos, elote and tostadas. As we've discussed before,
a lot of mainstream Americanized Mexican food really started taking
off in the US in the nineteen fifties. Interestingly, though,
kotilla got added to other things too, like salad, pizza,
and pastas. As you said, Lauren, I feel like a
lot of this is more recent, but it did end
(13:56):
up in a lot of other things other than Americanized
Mexican food. According to Miriam Webster, the term kutilla in
context of the cheese became popular in English in nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Skipping ahead a little bit, in nineteen ninety eight, a
group of producers and other interested parties from academic and
government institutions all got together and started a production organization
and a campaign to obtain that that denomination of origin.
It was a little bit of a process, like at
first the government said, no, it's kind of a generic term,
(14:33):
and y'all don't have like the quality standards evaluations in place,
and so they gave them a collective trademark instead in
two thousand and five. Part of the problem was that
some of these areas are so remote and like up
there in the mountains, that it was difficult for these
teams to communicate.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
With each other.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But after a lot of really interesting research into the
historical and modern food ways surrounding this cheese, which in
itself brought attention to the traditional producers and the product,
I'm pretty sure that denomination of origin was granted in
twenty ten or like around.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
About those years.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I read a few conflicting dates for kind of everything
I just said, and it's certainly a possibility that I've
lost like nuance in translation from Spanish language sources. So
at any rate, Yeah, in the States, there has been
another rise in Mexican cuisine over the past couple decades,
both with immigrants bringing and sharing their culture and with
(15:34):
that increased willingness of Americans to try new to them
things which we've often talked about on the show. One
of the dishes that has hit it big involves kotilla elothes.
This is a street food consisting of roasted corn on
the cob, coated and something creamy like mayo, and then
sprinkled with stuff like cootilla, chili, powdered cilantro, garlic, squeeze
(15:56):
a lime. It's also served in a lot of different
iterations off the cop as like a topping or filling
for other dishes like nachos or burritos, and has expanded
to be considered kind of like a flavor onto itself.
As of twenty twenty, it's inclusion on menus had increased
by one hundred and fourteen percent over the previous four years.
(16:16):
It was having a moment. It was I feel like
it is still having a moment.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yes, I think so. I think a year ago. It
was on my brother's birthday last year, which is May fifth.
My mom we met up for lunch in Atlanta, my mom,
my little brother and I. She was like, have you
heard about a low tase? You're like, yes, mother, I
(16:43):
love this. Where did you have a lot? Just because
she's still in my small town, but my h my
small town is much bigger. Than it was when I
was growing up there. But yes, absolutely, still it was
just really cute to me that she was like, we've
got to get there, hold on news flash. Yeah yeah,
(17:04):
and we got. It's a delightful dish.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I yeah, and I will say that, Yeah, Katia is
really perfect on there. It's just it really brings out
right like the savory, like like just all of the
other flavors that really ties them together. And it's so
beautiful it is, despite how salty it is. I if
whenever I'm working with Kutia in my own kitchen, it's
(17:29):
one of the I guess this probably applies to all cheese,
Like I have a really hard time not just like
eating a handful of it. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, like
some for the sauce, some for me, Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Let me make sure, okay, still tastes good, Still tastes good. Perfect.
Had to check and to check, yes, oh yeah. There
is a lot of cravings, a lot of cravings.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I'm really mad that I'm not eating like ninety different
things right now. I think I'm going to have to
rectify this in my near future.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I agree, I agree, but I think that's what we
have to say about Kotilla for now.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with school Fish. Yeah. I'm horrible at Mortal
cop Oh. Yeah, that's not my game. It's not one
of my better ones, to be honest. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I never really picked it up because well A, I
didn't have the right console and buh. I was when
the first one came out, like tiny proto feminist Lauren.
I was like nine maybe uh And I was like,
there's only one girl and her finishing move is a kiss.
(19:13):
I don't like this game.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I love that. Yeah. Yeah, my beef was. I mean,
I'm really good at some video games, but mostly my
little brother was better and he was really good.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That'll do it. That'll do it. And I don't mind losing.
But there's something about like I never had why I'm here.
It can't improve because you're just killing me immediately. You're
pressing like six combination of.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And then I'm just dead.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and I don't know where you learned that anyway. Anyway,
our corrogue about our classic basil basil episode and Eminala episode.
Love the classic and if Annie is a sleeper agent,
(20:15):
I must be as well. I fit between the American
and British pronunciation too. I also tend to flip back
and forth on herbs and aluminum as well. Now I'm confused.
The fun comes when it is zucchini and corgettes or
eggplant and aubergine that will trip people up for pesto. Ever,
(20:41):
have it with genobse basil. That is what I really
want to try. Supposedly opens a whole different set of
flavors as well. Hopefully I can get some at some point.
Cheese episodes are always fun. Another entry, and the spu
Amon Tyler is another good cheese. There is one I
get from a deli near me that is an eighteen
(21:03):
month aged one has this nice sort of tang to it,
not really sharp or anything like that, but just a
nice little flavor pop to it. Emmontala is also pretty
versatile from my experience. Use it in mac and cheese.
If you like white pizza, make one with a mix
of imentaler and a good blue arc organzola. I don't
think you'll regret it. I also love the idea of
(21:27):
elemental cheese, and we need to bring back fond do.
We'll need to add that to the Savor Feast. Carrot
cake is interesting. I do like it, but you don't
see it often or really think about it. I don't
know if I would classify it as my favorite cake,
but it is one I do enjoy. I really can't
(21:48):
think what I would say is my favorite cake. Definitely
love the varied history behind it. Think I'm going to
need to look into making one this weekend. Thank you
for providing the craving interesting because we always joke and
it is true about the cravings. Several people wrote that
they were going to have to make a caricake. Oh
(22:09):
yeah after that episode.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Apparently the craving was particularly strong with that one. Yeah,
the craving was strong with that one. Yes, I have
gotten my hands and some of those cheese.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I haven't eaten it yet though, it's I'm waiting for
the right moment. Okay, all right, yeah, yes, but these
are good ideas. I like this because I can't eat
well I probably could, but be nice to put it
in other things other than just eating it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Not just eating it straight. Yeah yeah, the whole thing
as a table cheese. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I do
I do love these how right, Like like little britishisms
will kind of creep into I mean, I blame it
on like having watched too much Doctor Who and other
you know, British television over the years. Like you know,
occasionally it takes me out actual effort to remember the
(23:01):
term parking lot if if you just if I'm just
talking about it, I usually will say car park unless
I'm really thinking about not being weird, right, It's just
one of those things. And like I'll frequently say flat
instead of apartment. I don't know, I don't know why.
It's just yeah, it's in there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the entertainment that
many of us, including you and I grew up with
was from the UK, and so some of those things
just seep in and you don't realize until you're older
and you're like, oh, I spell, which is funny for
this show, but I spell a lot of words the
(23:41):
British way, and my auto correct is always like no,
gray is with an A, not an E.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Really, I didn't know any of that until autocorrect existed,
So yeah, I grew up reading C. S. Lewis Man,
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like that? The darkest risy come on now? So much Tolkien?
What do you want from me? Yes? Here, we are
just trying to get by and not be weird.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We're not trying that hard. We're not driving that hard.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
No, oh, all right, big Yogi wrote first off as
a truck driver who is fluent in Trucker's French and
uses that Trucker's French copiously while driving through this great
nation of bad drivers. I say that it would be
hilariously awesome to unleash Lauren's version of French on a
(24:38):
live show that is rated for mature, grown, and sexy audiences.
Let those four letter words fly free like a dove.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Second.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I've wanted to write in and share a story about
Espresso for a while, since I first heard the Espresso
episode you guys did, but I've been so busy that
I keep forgetting to do so. I've been working twenty
months straight, fourteen hours day without a break, so it
has been easy to have the letter slit my mind
and just made it hard to focus in order to
write anything. Mildly coherent. I apologize in advance for typos
(25:09):
and grammar. Somehow the Espresso episode came back into my
podcast queue. Not sure how or why, but I just
listened to it all over again and was reminded to
send this story. Figured better late than never. I have
had a little rescue dog on the truck for a
few years. Not sure what her breed is. Might be
a terrior mix, but who knows.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We think her mom got around the neighborhood a little bit.
I just call her a twenty pound attack Gerbil terrorist.
But her government name is Jojo. Now. I love Jojo,
I really do. But that little monster can get into
some stuff, and I believe she may be some sort
of trickster spirit or some sort of chaos agent in
an almost dog body. I don't believe she's made the
(25:51):
size and weight requirements to be a real dog. As
a trucker, we often work long hours and spend many
nights not getting solid sleep due to the conditions where
and when we park to shut down. So coffee and
energy drinks are pretty much one of the fuels that
keep the trucking industry going. My personal socially acceptable legal
drug of choice is coffee, and I love a good espresso.
(26:12):
I even have a mini camp Espresso maker on the
truck so I can get my fix when I need
or want to. One day, I was super tired. It
was a cold day in Colorado, so I decided to
make a nice, fancy truck or chino that had about
four or five shots of espresso in it. Figured that
cupa Joe would jumpstart my brain a bit for the day.
During this time, I was hauling refrigerated trailers and noticed
(26:34):
a warning light on the trailer activated while I was driving.
I found a place to pull over to get out
and check the trailer. And while I was busy doing
my job outside in twenty degree weather, my little furball
child of the corn figured she could use a nice
warm beverage too. The hairy little goblin managed to take
the lid off of my sixty four ounce Bubba mug
and helped herself to the magical brown elixir. Within before
(27:01):
I made it back into the truck, Jojo, the twenty
pound attack durble terrorist, managed to lap up half of
that mug of coffee, evolving herself into a powered up
crackhead twenty pound attack durble terrorist. That little hell spawn
practically needed to be peeled off the ceiling. She was
like a mag wi that was fed after midnight, bent
(27:21):
on the destruction of my world. To try and let
her get some energy out, I tried to take the
Demon for a walk, and the entire time that broke
bad Puppy was incessantly doing dumb run circles around me
with her tongue hanging out with a pair of blown pupils.
For about half an hour, that little dog had as
much energy as an eighties coked up stage comedian.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I thought I was going.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
To have to get a vet exorcist something. Eventually, her
little high wore off and she crashed out on the
passenger seat for several hours. I immediately stopped at a
Walmart first chance I got to purchase a new mug
with a screw down locking lid. I have added a
picture of the Demon during the event so you can
see for yourself what I was dealing with. I also
(28:07):
am including a picture of her when she isn't high
on caffeated beverages so you can compare and contrast. JoJo's
little buddy in the calm picture is the stray kitten
we found in the bumper of the truck during a
pre trip inspection. The kitten was named after where she
was found, so her name is Bumper.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Oh, Bumper Bumper. Oh let me say the picture. Different
suits between Jojo are striking there. I wouldn't have to
put a caption. You wouldn't know which one Jojo was.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That poor Bud was seeing through time and space and
didn't really let like like like what sites we have
to show you like.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Kind of vibe.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm very glad Jojo is all right, Yes, yes,
heck I'm because four to five shots of espresso is
enough to I would.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Be oh a hell spot.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah I would look like that too. Yes, I would
also just be running stupid little laps.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So glad it all worked out. Excellent
descriptions in comparisons of Jojo to really paint the picture,
But yeah, it is. It was quite quite the site
(29:35):
to see this very excitable dog a little bit terrifying.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah yeah yeah. Also we want to put in here
the big ye you sent us a recipe for chocolate
coffee no bike cheesecake if anyone wants it and he
has it on hand and can send it along. Yeah,
it sounds sounds delicious. Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
And we do appreciate there were a lot of pictures
throughout this email to demonstrate what the events that unfolded,
So thank you for really painting a picture and.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Telling a story. Four to five shots of espresso my goodness.
Yeah yeah hm. Well, thanks to both of those listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
that you can.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saveer pod, and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(30:58):
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm one Bogel Bam, and today we have an episode
for you about cootiha cheese.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, yes, fun with pronunciation For me, I will say.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Was there any particular reason this was on your mind, Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I was looking for a cheese product, and I was
looking for a cheese product in the Americas, and I
was thinking about I was thinking about all of the
delicious things that we had when we were out in Vegas,
and so here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, yeah, we did have some delicious things out in Vegas,
and yeah, I mean Cottia cheese is something that I
have had and have loved, but I feel like it's
been since I move to Atlanta. Again, this is something
I'm sure existed in my small town, but I didn't
(01:06):
really have it or know that I had had it.
Yeah at the time.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Yeah, I'm not totally sure when I was first exposed
to it, because I feel like so much Mexican American
food and Caribbean American food is only kind of recently
available in a slightly more traditional way, with more traditional
products like this previous to ten or twenty years ago.
(01:36):
You know, it was just like like shredded American cheese
on every taco and site, and so right, yes the
Mexican blends maybe a Monterey Jack, sure right, but yeah, yeah,
nothing more interesting than that.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
So yes, well, speaking of you can see our past
cheese episodes. We have done many at this point.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
We have we have also perhaps tacos.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Sure, yes, yes, definitely. I suppose that brings us to
our question, sure, Cottia cheese, what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Well, Kotilla is a type of hard cheese made from
cow's milk that's crumbly and salty, with like a milky,
grassy tartness and a little bit of funk. It can
be aged for a little for a softer, fresher cheese,
or a little more for a harder, dryer cheese. Either way,
it is not a melting cheese, like it'll soften when heated,
(02:36):
but it's never going to go gooey, So it's actually
absolutely ideal as a finishing cheese, like any probably savory
dish that you want to add a little burst of
a bright salty savory flavor to grate or crumble a
little bit of this on top salad sandwiches, casseroles, soups
and stews, roasted and stuffed veg or meat, street food,
(02:59):
and other snacks. It is powerfully salty, so you're not
usually using a lot, but it really sets off other
savory and bright flavors in a dish. It's like it's
like of a finishing salt where slightly softer and chonky
and non vegan. If if you've ever had a drink
(03:19):
served with a salted rim, it's sort of like the
first sip of that. But a cheese it's like a
It's like when you're swimming in salt water and you
get a little mouthful of it, but the water is
just so perfectly cool and the sun is so perfectly
bright that it's just like a little seasoning on your day.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
That sounds lovely the com for people, Oh thank you Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
Cheese is a concentration of the nutritious stuff in milk
that's then fermented, that is spoiled on purpose safely so
that it doesn't spoil accidentally and dangerously. And kotiha is
a traditionally raw milk cheese that's made without a starter
culture in local environmental conditions, meaning it depends on its
(04:19):
environment and production methods to become the tasty and safe
product that it is. Like, this is one of those
areas where art and science really meet. Cootilla cheese does
have a geographical indication in its native country, Mexico. We
talk about these sort of denominations of origin a lot,
especially in terms of stuff like cheese or wine. You know,
(04:39):
these like high value agricultural products that are cool specifically
because of their traditional production methods, but that have often
faced competition from industrially produced or counterfeit products. So there
is a set of rules by which a cheese that
earns the seal must be made, though the name isn't
generally protected internationally, so yeah, fun. Coltiha is named for
(05:06):
a city that came up on the edges of the
production region, which is kind of right on the border
of the states of Jalisco and Michokan. That's sort of
like west of Mexico City and south of Guadalajara. It's
a mountainous area with lots of vegetation and like temperate,
wet weather right around seventy degrees fahrenheit, like twenty one celsius.
You know, like perfect tech and weather. The cattle free
(05:28):
grays during the rainy late summer months July through October,
and the cheese is produced only during that season. To
do that, you take the raw milk, you filter it
and then put it in room temperature stainless steel vats,
then at enzymes that will coagulate it, that is, make
the curds, the fats and stuff separate from the way
(05:49):
the water and stuff you drain the way and need
the curds with raw rock salt from the coast of Kalima.
The cheese is pressed into wheels and turned for a
number of days to develop the rind, after which it's
ripened for at least three months, though it can be
allowed to age for a year or more. That ripening
(06:10):
length does mean that it's legal to sell in the
United States. Raw milk cheeses must be aged at least
sixty days to be sold here. When kotilla is soft,
it's a little bit like feta. When it's aged, it's
more like a pecorino romano kind of situation. A combination
of the way that the curds are treated and the
microbiome of the cheese leads to it being fine grained
(06:34):
and crumbly. Those microbes also give it a lot of
its flavor. The finished wheels are sort of medium sized,
about like forty centimeters across and twenty centimeters tall that's
about eight by sixteen inches, and will weigh around twenty
kilos that's forty five pounds. There are local variations within
the production area, including a version whose rind gets coated
(06:55):
in this paste made from dried chili's, garlic and vinegar.
Oh that sounds good. Yes, yeah, And all of that said,
there are industrial producers of cotilla style cheeses outside of
this production area, and that'll have kind of various qualities
and production processes due to being industrially produced not under regulation.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
It is traditionally an ingredient in things like stuffed chili's,
as a topping for street food like alotes like which
is roasted corn, and stuff tacos, and on saucy dishes
like enchiladas or pasole. But you can use it in
pretty much anything, you know, add flavor to burgers or meatballs, yeah,
Sprinkle some on fresh fruit like melon for a burst
(07:45):
of salt, or use it in like a sweet and
savory chopped salad dressed with lemon juice and chili powder.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Oh yes, I did have stuck in my head throughout
this fish combat because it's such a good finishing cheese.
Oh yeah, I can see the cheese like grating on
top of a taco or something. Yeah, and that's the
killing blow it is. Oh, that's what's finished. So delicious. Yes, well,
(08:15):
speaking of what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Cheese is a nutrient dense food. That is the point
of cheese. You know, it's got a good punch of protein,
some fats and micronutrients in there. Drink water, eat a vegetable.
I will say there have been a few outbreaks of
food born illnesses traced to Kutsi Has style cheeses, but
as far as I'm aware, they're all linked to industrially
produced cheeses from outside of the region, usually made in
(08:42):
the US, which are like aged for less than two
months and obviously do not have the same microbiome going
as those traditionally produced cheeses.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Right. Well, we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
As of two thousand and nine, about two hundred family
ranches in the region we're producing kotiha. These days, I
think it's more like ninety ranches produce about a ton
of cheese. Per year on average, using herds of around
just thirty five cows.
Speaker 1 (09:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Recent research suggests that this is my favorite factor of
the episode. Recent research suggests that Kotiha cheese has one
of the most diverse microbiomes known to fermented products. It
contains three dominant genera of bacteria, but over five hundred
other genera of microorganisms, including yeasts. Again, the Kotiha region
(09:41):
is like relatively warm and humid, and the equipment that
it's produced on is frequently you know, like like wooden
boards and casks that have been passed down through generations.
And all of these factors allow the introduction of microbes
like these bacteria and yeasts that do so much for
the cheese. It is catching on in restaurants in the US.
(10:03):
It's inclusion on American menus increased by seventy seven percent
from twenty fourteen through twenty eighteen, bolstered by the popularity
of Mexican dishes like Alothus. However, as of twenty eighteen,
only fifteen percent of Americans had tried it. Wow yeah Yeah.
(10:24):
And twenty twenty four was the twenty fifth annual Cheese
Fair in the city of Kutilla. This happens in late
December to like celebrate and kind of like move the
batch of freshly released cheese that was started that summer. However,
my admittedly brief searching didn't turn up any particular details.
I think it's just yeah, like a bunch of a
(10:46):
bunch of ranchers come down and they're like, yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
Cheese sounds great. I know, right, I'm into it. Listeners,
if you've been oh my goodness, got a lot of no.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
Yeah, the town looks beautiful, the country side looks beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
I yeah, oh maybe one day, maybe one day. But
before that day, we do have some history for you.
We do.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
But first we've got a quick break for a word
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes see our
past episodes on cheese and yogurtot Yeah, but essentially, yes,
many cheeses happened separately and simultaneously ish and often it
sounds like by accident. Most of those stories can't be
proven at all, but no, that is the popular story
(11:50):
that it's told. However, Kotilla is relatively new in the
cheese world. According to many sources, the history of Kotia
cheese can be traced back to colonization and what's now Mexico,
when the Spanish introduced to European cheese making techniques to
that area along with cows, and after discovering gold and
(12:11):
the mountains around a site called Kotilla, they set to
work mining it.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Yeah, Kotija eventually grew into a city, but it started
as this tiny settlement in the foothills in the fifteen hundreds.
To this day, you can find a lot of colonial
architecture there.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
Yes. Meanwhile, sixteenth century ranchero's made Kotilla with cow's milk
in the mountains and carried it back to the town
via mule. During the rainy season, the roads could be impassable,
which led to the discovery that the cheese got better
with age. And yes, it came to be named after
the nearby town Kotiya. Other sources, though, claim that something
(12:52):
very similar to Kotia was being made in Mexico in
pre Hispanic times with sheep's milk. I couldn't find too
much about that, but I think worth mentioning. Over time,
cheese production in the region evolved to match the taste
of indigenous peoples, though with European influence from these adaptations
(13:13):
and experimentations, a whole umbrella of Mexican cheese is emerged.
Like Queso Fresco, almost all of them were produced with
cow's milk. Then kotilla got added to a bunch of
street foods and various localized dishes over time. Given that
it softened but didn't melt, it was a perfect addition
(13:34):
to things like tacos, elote and tostadas. As we've discussed before,
a lot of mainstream Americanized Mexican food really started taking
off in the US in the nineteen fifties. Interestingly, though,
kotilla got added to other things too, like salad, pizza,
and pastas. As you said, Lauren, I feel like a
lot of this is more recent, but it did end
(13:56):
up in a lot of other things other than Americanized
Mexican food. According to Miriam Webster, the term kutilla in
context of the cheese became popular in English in nineteen
seventy five.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Skipping ahead a little bit, in nineteen ninety eight, a
group of producers and other interested parties from academic and
government institutions all got together and started a production organization
and a campaign to obtain that that denomination of origin.
It was a little bit of a process, like at
first the government said, no, it's kind of a generic term,
(14:33):
and y'all don't have like the quality standards evaluations in place,
and so they gave them a collective trademark instead in
two thousand and five. Part of the problem was that
some of these areas are so remote and like up
there in the mountains, that it was difficult for these
teams to communicate.
Speaker 1 (14:51):
With each other.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
But after a lot of really interesting research into the
historical and modern food ways surrounding this cheese, which in
itself brought attention to the traditional producers and the product,
I'm pretty sure that denomination of origin was granted in
twenty ten or like around.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
About those years.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
I read a few conflicting dates for kind of everything
I just said, and it's certainly a possibility that I've
lost like nuance in translation from Spanish language sources. So
at any rate, Yeah, in the States, there has been
another rise in Mexican cuisine over the past couple decades,
both with immigrants bringing and sharing their culture and with
(15:34):
that increased willingness of Americans to try new to them
things which we've often talked about on the show. One
of the dishes that has hit it big involves kotilla elothes.
This is a street food consisting of roasted corn on
the cob, coated and something creamy like mayo, and then
sprinkled with stuff like cootilla, chili, powdered cilantro, garlic, squeeze
(15:56):
a lime. It's also served in a lot of different
iterations off the cop as like a topping or filling
for other dishes like nachos or burritos, and has expanded
to be considered kind of like a flavor onto itself.
As of twenty twenty, it's inclusion on menus had increased
by one hundred and fourteen percent over the previous four years.
(16:16):
It was having a moment. It was I feel like
it is still having a moment.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Yes, I think so. I think a year ago. It
was on my brother's birthday last year, which is May fifth.
My mom we met up for lunch in Atlanta, my mom,
my little brother and I. She was like, have you
heard about a low tase? You're like, yes, mother, I
(16:43):
love this. Where did you have a lot? Just because
she's still in my small town, but my h my
small town is much bigger. Than it was when I
was growing up there. But yes, absolutely, still it was
just really cute to me that she was like, we've
got to get there, hold on news flash. Yeah yeah,
(17:04):
and we got. It's a delightful dish.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
I yeah, and I will say that, Yeah, Katia is
really perfect on there. It's just it really brings out
right like the savory, like like just all of the
other flavors that really ties them together. And it's so
beautiful it is, despite how salty it is. I if
whenever I'm working with Kutia in my own kitchen, it's
(17:29):
one of the I guess this probably applies to all cheese,
Like I have a really hard time not just like
eating a handful of it. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, like
some for the sauce, some for me, Like yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Let me make sure, okay, still tastes good, Still tastes good. Perfect.
Had to check and to check, yes, oh yeah. There
is a lot of cravings, a lot of cravings.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
I'm really mad that I'm not eating like ninety different
things right now. I think I'm going to have to
rectify this in my near future.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
I agree, I agree, but I think that's what we
have to say about Kotilla for now.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
We do have some listener mail for you, though, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with school Fish. Yeah. I'm horrible at Mortal
cop Oh. Yeah, that's not my game. It's not one
of my better ones, to be honest. Yeah, I just.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
I never really picked it up because well A, I
didn't have the right console and buh. I was when
the first one came out, like tiny proto feminist Lauren.
I was like nine maybe uh And I was like,
there's only one girl and her finishing move is a kiss.
(19:13):
I don't like this game.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
I love that. Yeah. Yeah, my beef was. I mean,
I'm really good at some video games, but mostly my
little brother was better and he was really good.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
That'll do it. That'll do it. And I don't mind losing.
But there's something about like I never had why I'm here.
It can't improve because you're just killing me immediately. You're
pressing like six combination of.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
And then I'm just dead.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
Yeah, and I don't know where you learned that anyway. Anyway,
our corrogue about our classic basil basil episode and Eminala episode.
Love the classic and if Annie is a sleeper agent,
(20:15):
I must be as well. I fit between the American
and British pronunciation too. I also tend to flip back
and forth on herbs and aluminum as well. Now I'm confused.
The fun comes when it is zucchini and corgettes or
eggplant and aubergine that will trip people up for pesto. Ever,
(20:41):
have it with genobse basil. That is what I really
want to try. Supposedly opens a whole different set of
flavors as well. Hopefully I can get some at some point.
Cheese episodes are always fun. Another entry, and the spu
Amon Tyler is another good cheese. There is one I
get from a deli near me that is an eighteen
(21:03):
month aged one has this nice sort of tang to it,
not really sharp or anything like that, but just a
nice little flavor pop to it. Emmontala is also pretty
versatile from my experience. Use it in mac and cheese.
If you like white pizza, make one with a mix
of imentaler and a good blue arc organzola. I don't
think you'll regret it. I also love the idea of
(21:27):
elemental cheese, and we need to bring back fond do.
We'll need to add that to the Savor Feast. Carrot
cake is interesting. I do like it, but you don't
see it often or really think about it. I don't
know if I would classify it as my favorite cake,
but it is one I do enjoy. I really can't
(21:48):
think what I would say is my favorite cake. Definitely
love the varied history behind it. Think I'm going to
need to look into making one this weekend. Thank you
for providing the craving interesting because we always joke and
it is true about the cravings. Several people wrote that
they were going to have to make a caricake. Oh
(22:09):
yeah after that episode.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
Apparently the craving was particularly strong with that one. Yeah,
the craving was strong with that one. Yes, I have
gotten my hands and some of those cheese.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
I haven't eaten it yet though, it's I'm waiting for
the right moment. Okay, all right, yeah, yes, but these
are good ideas. I like this because I can't eat
well I probably could, but be nice to put it
in other things other than just eating it.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Not just eating it straight. Yeah yeah, the whole thing
as a table cheese. Yeah yeah, yeah, And I do
I do love these how right, Like like little britishisms
will kind of creep into I mean, I blame it
on like having watched too much Doctor Who and other
you know, British television over the years. Like you know,
occasionally it takes me out actual effort to remember the
(23:01):
term parking lot if if you just if I'm just
talking about it, I usually will say car park unless
I'm really thinking about not being weird, right, It's just
one of those things. And like I'll frequently say flat
instead of apartment. I don't know, I don't know why.
It's just yeah, it's in there somewhere.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of the entertainment that
many of us, including you and I grew up with
was from the UK, and so some of those things
just seep in and you don't realize until you're older
and you're like, oh, I spell, which is funny for
this show, but I spell a lot of words the
(23:41):
British way, and my auto correct is always like no,
gray is with an A, not an E.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Really, I didn't know any of that until autocorrect existed,
So yeah, I grew up reading C. S. Lewis Man,
What do you want?
Speaker 1 (23:58):
Like that? The darkest risy come on now? So much Tolkien?
What do you want from me? Yes? Here, we are
just trying to get by and not be weird.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
We're not trying that hard. We're not driving that hard.
Speaker 2 (24:16):
No, oh, all right, big Yogi wrote first off as
a truck driver who is fluent in Trucker's French and
uses that Trucker's French copiously while driving through this great
nation of bad drivers. I say that it would be
hilariously awesome to unleash Lauren's version of French on a
(24:38):
live show that is rated for mature, grown, and sexy audiences.
Let those four letter words fly free like a dove.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Second.
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I've wanted to write in and share a story about
Espresso for a while, since I first heard the Espresso
episode you guys did, but I've been so busy that
I keep forgetting to do so. I've been working twenty
months straight, fourteen hours day without a break, so it
has been easy to have the letter slit my mind
and just made it hard to focus in order to
write anything. Mildly coherent. I apologize in advance for typos
(25:09):
and grammar. Somehow the Espresso episode came back into my
podcast queue. Not sure how or why, but I just
listened to it all over again and was reminded to
send this story. Figured better late than never. I have
had a little rescue dog on the truck for a
few years. Not sure what her breed is. Might be
a terrior mix, but who knows.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
We think her mom got around the neighborhood a little bit.
I just call her a twenty pound attack Gerbil terrorist.
But her government name is Jojo. Now. I love Jojo,
I really do. But that little monster can get into
some stuff, and I believe she may be some sort
of trickster spirit or some sort of chaos agent in
an almost dog body. I don't believe she's made the
(25:51):
size and weight requirements to be a real dog. As
a trucker, we often work long hours and spend many
nights not getting solid sleep due to the conditions where
and when we park to shut down. So coffee and
energy drinks are pretty much one of the fuels that
keep the trucking industry going. My personal socially acceptable legal
drug of choice is coffee, and I love a good espresso.
(26:12):
I even have a mini camp Espresso maker on the
truck so I can get my fix when I need
or want to. One day, I was super tired. It
was a cold day in Colorado, so I decided to
make a nice, fancy truck or chino that had about
four or five shots of espresso in it. Figured that
cupa Joe would jumpstart my brain a bit for the day.
During this time, I was hauling refrigerated trailers and noticed
(26:34):
a warning light on the trailer activated while I was driving.
I found a place to pull over to get out
and check the trailer. And while I was busy doing
my job outside in twenty degree weather, my little furball
child of the corn figured she could use a nice
warm beverage too. The hairy little goblin managed to take
the lid off of my sixty four ounce Bubba mug
and helped herself to the magical brown elixir. Within before
(27:01):
I made it back into the truck, Jojo, the twenty
pound attack durble terrorist, managed to lap up half of
that mug of coffee, evolving herself into a powered up
crackhead twenty pound attack durble terrorist. That little hell spawn
practically needed to be peeled off the ceiling. She was
like a mag wi that was fed after midnight, bent
(27:21):
on the destruction of my world. To try and let
her get some energy out, I tried to take the
Demon for a walk, and the entire time that broke
bad Puppy was incessantly doing dumb run circles around me
with her tongue hanging out with a pair of blown pupils.
For about half an hour, that little dog had as
much energy as an eighties coked up stage comedian.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
I thought I was going.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
To have to get a vet exorcist something. Eventually, her
little high wore off and she crashed out on the
passenger seat for several hours. I immediately stopped at a
Walmart first chance I got to purchase a new mug
with a screw down locking lid. I have added a
picture of the Demon during the event so you can
see for yourself what I was dealing with. I also
(28:07):
am including a picture of her when she isn't high
on caffeated beverages so you can compare and contrast. JoJo's
little buddy in the calm picture is the stray kitten
we found in the bumper of the truck during a
pre trip inspection. The kitten was named after where she
was found, so her name is Bumper.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Oh, Bumper Bumper. Oh let me say the picture. Different
suits between Jojo are striking there. I wouldn't have to
put a caption. You wouldn't know which one Jojo was.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
That poor Bud was seeing through time and space and
didn't really let like like like what sites we have
to show you like.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Kind of vibe.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm very glad Jojo is all right, Yes, yes,
heck I'm because four to five shots of espresso is
enough to I would.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Be oh a hell spot.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah I would look like that too. Yes, I would
also just be running stupid little laps.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, So glad it all worked out. Excellent
descriptions in comparisons of Jojo to really paint the picture,
But yeah, it is. It was quite quite the site
(29:35):
to see this very excitable dog a little bit terrifying.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah yeah yeah. Also we want to put in here
the big ye you sent us a recipe for chocolate
coffee no bike cheesecake if anyone wants it and he
has it on hand and can send it along. Yeah,
it sounds sounds delicious. Yeah, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
And we do appreciate there were a lot of pictures
throughout this email to demonstrate what the events that unfolded,
So thank you for really painting a picture and.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Telling a story. Four to five shots of espresso my goodness.
Yeah yeah hm. Well, thanks to both of those listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
that you can.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Our email is hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saveer pod, and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(30:58):
your way.
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Lauren Vogelbaum
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Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.