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April 3, 2024 30 mins

This special-occasion cake comes from a long line of vegetal desserts. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of carrot cake.

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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Mourned vogel Baum.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
And today we have an episode for you about carrot cake.

Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, yep, yeah, yes we do. I was there. I'll
ask it even though at the answer. Was there any
particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, we just had Easter weekend, and an association of
mine with Easter weekend is carrot cake. I think because
of like the Easter bunny and bunnies in cartoons liking carrots.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I think that that's the the extent.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Yeah, I can't remember the last time I had a
piece of carrot cake. It certainly wouldn't have been at
an Easter, not in the last like ten years, So
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Yeah, I would love to hear from listeners about this.
I find traditions fascinating around food, and Easter traditions are
sort of all across the map. Yeah, we were just
talking about lamb cakes, how fun they are. Yes, I

typically associate carrot cake with fall, I think because of
the spices.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
But okay, yeah, that tracks nice warm fall spices in there.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Sure. I did find a really funny article that was
about how carrot cake is one of the few desserts
that they like decorate with carrots. You know it's yeah cake?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, well, I mean, you know, like it's sort of
you know, you can you can decorate a strawberry cake
with real strawberries, right, It's harder to decorate a carrot
cake with real carrot it is.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
I thought it was fascinating because I've never really ponded
that before. I do have. I've mentioned before I have
a list of desserts that I keep for friends of mine,
just like things they mentioned and super producer Ramsey friend
of the show favorite dessert carrot cake.

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Really okay, Yeah, I mean I like it. I don't
dislike it.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
I don't dislike it either, but it's pretty rare for me.
I think that's a first for someone to say that's
their favorite. But yeah, he loves it. Right.

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Cool into that, Well, National Carrot Cake Day is February third,
meaning that we've straight missed that one.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
And it's near neither of our associations No carrot cake, okay? Cool?
You can see our carrot episode, our lamb cake episode,
just because fruitcake maybe suresh ish cream cheese, pumpkin pie.

Maybe it's in that space. Yeah, a vague fin diagram
of a lot of those things.

Speaker 2 (03:16):
Yeah, maybe some of our spice episodes, cinnamon or cloves
or nutmeg.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Sure, all right, Well, I guess that brings us to
our question. I guess it does. Carrot cake, what is it?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, carrot cake is a type of dessert baked good
that uses grated carrots to add moisture and sweetness and
a little bit of earthiness, helping create a fluffy, delicate,
kind of weird cake. These cakes are often further flavored
with warm spices like ginger, cinnamon, and nutmeg, maybe a
touch of bright citrus and smooth vanilla. They're also studded

with mixins like raisins or currants and some kind of
chopped nuts, and then topped with a rich, creamy frosting
like a butter cream or a cream cheese frosting. They
are often decorated with a little frosting carrot, I don't know.
It's often a layer cake format, meaning that you stack
multiple individually baked cakes on top of each other, with
frosting in between the layers, and it's usually served as

a dessert or snack at kind of special occasions like
birthdays or holidays. It's like it's like if you've ever
roasted carrots with honey and some spices, it's like the
ultimate form of that. Yeah, it's like a really clever
way actually to get moisture and sweetness into a cake.

It's like the least healthy iteration of a salad carrot cake.
A carrot cake is like snuggling down into a little
anthropomorphic animal's burrow and then tucking up under a nice
fluffy comforter. There.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Oh, I can see it like the a children's book
image snuggled up caart cake. So nice.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Also, I really like cream cheese frosting. I have to
admit I'm low key in it for the frosting in
this particular cake iteration. That's usually not my case with cake,
but at any rate, okay, ah, so I would pause
it that One of the primary science problems that you
have to solve when making baked goods is that you

don't want the finished product to be dry. Usually it
tends to be gross, like there are exceptions, but you know,
you're also literally baking the good. You're subjecting the good
in question to heat. That's half again or twice the
temperature at which water boils, so you are actively removing
moisture from the good There are a number of ways

to combat this, but one of them is to use
ingredients that themselves contain water and are like decent at
holding on to it. Many fruits and vegetables do this
all on their own as part of the process of living,
because it turns out that water is like more or
less necessary to make life happen. Life as we know
it mostly anyway gosh different show. But so by adding

shredded or grated or even ground carrots to your cake batter,
you can help retain moisture in your finished cake. This
is also part of why we have things like apple
cake or banana bread or zucchini bread, or part of
why recipes sometimes call for substituting apple sauce in for
sugar and or eggs. All that being said, there are

a lot of preferences about what exactly goes into a
carrot cake. I know, raisins or currants and chopped nuts
are both like contentious dessert inclusions. The nuts are usually
walnuts or pecans, but there's no reason not to use
almonds or I don't know, whatever else you like. Pine
nuts maybe I don't know. Other dried fruit could be used,

like dates, or coconut or pineapple. Some people add fresh pineapple.
Americans do put vanilla in like everything, but sometimes it's
nice to let the spices or zest from lemons or
oranges shine. Those spices can be anything warm, like clothes
or allspice or black pepper.

Speaker 1 (07:18):

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Most recipes call for vegetable oil as you're fat, but
why not melt butter? Why not brown butter. People also
get passionate about the type of frosting they prefer. As aforementioned,
I love the tang of a nice cream cheese frosting,
but butter cream can be great, and you could use
a cultured butter to make it a little bit tangy.

Speaker 1 (07:39):

Speaker 2 (07:42):
There are also strong opinions about whether carrotcake should just
go in the trash. Strong opinions are welcome here. It
does have a reputation for being a little bit old
fashioned in the United States. I've also read that it's
very popular in England, Switzerland, and Denmark, though y'all ride

in and apparently Swiss versions use nutflour instead of wheat flour,
and the carrot decoration is going to be made of Marzapan.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
This is what I've read, y'all. Let me know. H okay, wow,
what about the nutrition?

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Okay, y'all, I know I always say eat a vegetable. Yes,
that is not what I This is not what I
mean by that.

Speaker 1 (08:31):

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Sorry, By the time you add that much butter and
frosting to anything, it's not it doesn't count anymore. But hey,
yeah it's a treats are nice.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Sorry, I feel like you find a loophole and then
and then we do have some numbers for you. Okay.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yes, there is a Guinness record for the largest care cake.
The record went to a bakery in Canada that in
twenty sixteen baked a cake measuring six meters square and
weighing two thousand and seventy kilos that's a little under
twenty feet square and about forty five hundred pounds. The bakery,

the Saint Germain Bakery, employed some ten bakers for about
ten days and used around five hundred kilos of carrots
that's about one thousand pounds. It was not baked in
a single piece, but rather assembled from six hundred pieces.
The bakery did it in honor of their thirtieth anniversary,
and the co owner said that carrot cake was the
first type of cake he ever baked, so it was
like personal and nostalgia to him. Yeah, then, okay, this

is a very specific one that I found. In twenty fifteen,
there was an invitation put out by the Swiss television
channel SRF one for fans to come out to the
two hundredth episode filming of matches of this card game.
Because this episode was being filmed in this one region
of Switzerland famous for carrot cake, the TV station challenged

fans to bring at least two hundred cakes for the
two hundredth episode, but they wound up with four hundred
and eighty two cakes.

Speaker 1 (10:17):
You should know better. You know, you issue a challenge
like that, people are going to show up.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
It sounds it sounds like a delightful surplus.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, indeed, there is quite a history behind carrot cakes.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
Oh, this one went places. Yes, and we are going
to get into that as soon as we get back
from a quick break. For a word from our sponsors.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes,
definitely see our care episode. We had a listener send
in a lot of postcards about carrots after we did
that one, and I still have them on my fridge.
But it was a pleasant reminder while I was doing
this research. But yes, carrots have a long past of

historical confusion, often mixed up with parsnips in early records,
among other things. When it comes to carrot cakes specifically,
records indicate that carrots may have been used as sweeteners
in tenth century Arabic desserts.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Yeah, there are a couple recipes from around that time
that are custard type recipes that call for carrots along
with spices like cloves, ginger, and nutmeg.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Some speculate that when sugar was prohibitively expensive and hard
to come by for many in Europe during the Middle Ages,
they would turn to things like carrots as a sweetener instead.
It was not uncommon at the time to use sweet
vegetables in the place of sugar. A lot of these
early care cart cakes or carrot desserts would not use
sugar at all, unlike our modern iterations. According to some sources,

the first recipe for carrot cake was featured in a
French cookbook that was published in Britain in eighteen twenty seven. However,
important caveat. A part of this confusion surrounding carrot cake
also surrounds our confusion or disagreement around the term cake. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:26):
So, as we've talked about in our episodes on cream
of tartar and various baked goods, perhaps especially muffins. Before
chemical leveners started becoming commercially available in like the eighteen fifties,
baking a nice fluffy cake was hard. Moderaten dish ovens,
which debut around the eighteen thirties really helped too.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Before all that, if you.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Did not have the time or energy to hand whip
air into your batter in one way or another, you
were probably going for a steamed or boiled cake or
a baked custard often called an English a pudding.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
Rites. So these may not fit what a lot of
us think of as carrot cake today, but they do
check a lot of those boxes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
So, going back to fifteen eighty four, an English cookbook
called A Book of Cookery had this recipe for a
putting in a carrot root that was both sweet and savory,
involving fine shopped goose or pig liver, breadcrumbs, cloves, mace, dates, salt, pepper,
and sugar, all stuffed into a holid up carrot and

boiled in like a seasoned mutton broth. So early, not
quite what we're thinking about. But then there was a
recipe for a dessert putting a carrot that appeared in
sixteen ninety nine in John Evelyn's Acetaria, a Discourse in Salads,
which was published in London.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
Two recipes for carrot pudding pie were published in the
Art of Cookery Made Plain and Easy in seventeen forty seven, and.

Speaker 2 (13:57):
These sweet recipes involved making a mix out of bread crumbs,
carrots that you've boiled, and then grated milk or cream, eggs, sugar,
and flavorings like nutmeg and lemon peel, and then either
boiling or baking that mixture. The pie versions call for
a pastry crust on the top or bottom. Read I've
read that these things are sort of like a modern
bread pudding, except you know, with bread crumbs instead of

chunks of bread. But yeah. A similar recipe appeared in
Amelia Simmons American Cookery in seventeen ninety six, with cinnamon
instead of nutmeg, and by the eighteen forties at least
currants and raisins were also called for.

Speaker 1 (14:34):
But meanwhile, George Washington, George Washington was apparently serving carrot
cakes at parties, and some sources further suggest they because
of that, they must have still been like a luxury
item or retreat. But this doesn't fit in with the
rest of the narrative that it was a cheaper alternative

to cakes made with sugar.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
I guess carrot cake it can be luxurious. Sure, I
had to get to the bottom of this. So historically
it's one party and a version of carrot cake was
probably served. Like this isn't one of the recipes that
we have from Washington's estate. It's from this pub in
New York City called the Francis Tavern. So it's eighteen

seventy three. After the Revolutionary War was officially over, the
British were being evacuated from the newly minted United States,
and New York was the last official city of evacuation.
As part of the commotion and celebration, there were a
couple events at this tavern. There was a big dinner
party on the twenty fifth of November, which is the
official evacuation day, and then a farewell party for Washington

on December fourth, as.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
He was on his way out of the city.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
Strictly speaking, there is no evidence that carrot cake was
served at either of these parties, but it's likely that
a carrott pudding along the lines of what we just
discussed was on the menu here because it was a
common and popular dessert at the time.

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Mysteries histories.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
Yeah, uh, fun fact though, Washington was definitely there and
definitely wrote a testimonial for the owner of this tavern,
won Samuel Francis because he probably helped spy on British
officers who frequented his tavern.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Spy chef. Spy chef cool.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Later, when Washington was president, he employed Francis in his households.
Second fun fact. To this day, historians argue about whether
Francis was a black dude.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
We're not sure. Spy Chef another great mini series. See, honestly,
you could get a lot of good gossip in a restaurant,
so oh yeah, right, come on, see I see it,
especially if the alcohol is flowing. Oh yeah, gets some gossip. Oh.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
I always like, sometimes a server will walk away from
my table and I'm kind of like, oh, you're welcome, buddy,
Like that was probably some weird, juicy stuff that we
just said in front of you.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
You're welcome, and we're sorry.

Speaker 2 (17:22):
The confusion about this entire side note here about Washington
and whatever is because a lot of the articles on
the internet mix up the details. Because of this perfectly
lovely carrot cake recipe and the snippet of a story
in a recent cookbook and Burned American Cake, which is
a great cookbook, and right, it's a lovely recipe. It's

a lovely little bit of a story, but it just
doesn't give that many details. On the internet, you know,
just kind of ran with it in different incorrect ways.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
Anyway, if if you want to hear more.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
About the book or the author, Stuffy misted in history
class interviewed her about that book.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Yes, and cake great one.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
But okay, that first actual carrot cake recipe that you
were talking about from eighteen twenty seven is the English
version of the recipe that early French restaurant tour oh.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
In twine beolviere. What do you is that kind of
how it's said a little bit yeah, oh great, thank.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
You Annie, oh thank you?

Speaker 2 (18:31):
Okay, well cheap yeah, oh gosh. Anyway, he's the guy
who wrote the Art of Cuisine in eighteen fourteen two
volume books super Opus Really Really Cool and Yes, his
recipe for carrot cakes are much fancier than all of
the boiled and or steamed puddings that we've been talking about,

but still not exactly what would think of its carrot
cake today. Like this recipe involves boiling care and then
making a sort of thick paste from them, almost like
a petiet de fruit like kind of kind of thing. Yeah,
and then mixing that carrot paste with pastry cream, flour, sugar, eggs,
melted butter, whipped egg whites, and a sprinkle of sugared

orange flowers as you do, and then you bake that
like in a water bath like you might do for
a cheesecake or a souple. So very fancy, sounds delicious.
Interested in having someone else make it for me?

Speaker 1 (19:34):
I think we can make it out well here in
the US. Cake recipes using vegetables like beets, potatoes, and
carrots started appearing frequently in cookbooks in the nineteen twenties,
including the nineteen twenty nine The twentieth Century Bride's Cookbook,
a recipee that was found in part when Pillsbury yes

that one see that episode was conducting a nationwide search
for the first American traditional carrot cake recipe. In nineteen
thirty nine, Prudence Pennies Cookbook out of New York published
one of the first quote modern recipes for carrot cake. However,
others think that modern carrot cake crispies stemmed from post

World War One current cake recipes that someone was read.
Whatever the case, a lot of these early recipes involved flour, eggs, spices,
and steamed or boiled carrots. Even though carrots had been
mentioned and used as a sweetener previously in the West,
it wasn't until World War II rationing around things like
sugar gave rise to more widespread use of carrots as

a sweetener, at least in the popularly reported narrative. One
of the big things behind this thought is that in
nineteen forty three, the British Ministry of Foods wore cookery
Leaflit Number four included the recipe for Doctor Carrots Healthy Cake, which,
going back to that listener who sent those postcards, it

was a lot of stuff around this.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Yeah, yeah, Doctor Carrott is this great character who is
a carrot and a doctor, and good for.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
Him, good for him, yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:13):
But okay, this type of subsistence cooking probably was not
what made carrot cake like a thing we've seen in
lots of episodes. How that's not how those types of
foods usually work. Usually, like after the war is over,
people are like, oh, kale and don't want anything to
do with it anymore. What seems to have happened with

carrot cake is George Seapage. Okay, he's the dude who
founded the museum at the Librea tar Pits in Los Angeles. Okay,
George Seapage was a successful businessman in southern California who
made just a wild amount of money during World War
Two and immediately afterwards basically renting warehouses to the war

effort and buying beachfront property in Malibu when a bunch
of people bounced for fear that the Japanese were going
to try to invade there. That part isn't related to
carrot cake. I was just entertained by the detail. But
also during the war, okay, he got this government contract
selling them dehydrated carrots, I imagine, for rations. But then

the war ended and he just had this warehouse of
tins full of dehydrated carrots and apparently what happened was
he called up this restaurant that he had washed dishes
in when he was just off the bus from Nebraska,
and the owner there had the idea to use rehydrated
carrots in a cake. Maybe he hired the baker or

like maybe there was a team of bakers involved. He
might have also started selling the cakes through this like
gourmet mail order market that he also owned. I don't
know whether to believe this story, but I really want to. Also,
he was interviewed about it in The Good War, The
Oral History of World War Two, which is like Pulitzer

Prize winning, So I really want to really want.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
To believe it.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
But at any rate, yeah, the idea just got real popular,
and that was perhaps thanks to an element that has
thus far been missing, that cream cheese frosting.

Speaker 1 (23:21):
Yes, oh yes, it wasn't until the nineteen sixties that
the pairing of cream cheese frosting and carrot cake would
come together. And that's when, yeah, cream cheese was coming
up in America, and thanks in particular to an ad
campaign from the Philadelphia Cream Cheese Company. We've talked about
this all the time. Companies come out with these pamphlets

and are like, here's how you can use this thing
we want you to sell. Make a carrot cake and
put the cream cheese on it, and for some reason
it hits big. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
The Food Network once called carrot cake one of the
top five food fads of the nineteen seventies.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Interesting, Like, going back to what you said that it
feels kind of old fashioned here in the US. Yeah,
I did read from some sources that it became associated
with spring celebrations in the US, including Easter and Mother's Day.
I'm guessing in part because of what you said, Lauren,
of like our association with bunnies and carrots. I don't know, man,

I don't know. For the Mother's Day one, I couldn't
help but thinking like maybe it's because it's viewed as
a healthier dessert, even though not necessarily true at all now,
but you know, like that idea that women of course
can't just have a dessert. It has to be likes
a vegetable in it. Yeah, it has to be a
healthier one.

Speaker 3 (24:41):

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah, I couldn't find anything behind that, but that was
just like my immediate gut instinct.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
Was, yeah, if you've done enough reading around stuff, like
that for stuff. Mom never told you that. I trust
your gut instinct on that one. Yeah, your women's intuition.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Perhaps, But like I said at the top, I do
associate it more with fall or like even a Christmas
like holiday dessert. I don't really put it in a spring,
but I get why people do. It's interesting, yeah, interesting
all around. What a I was not expecting George c.

Page to pop up in this one, but here we are,
or the amount of research or the amount of reading
that I did into George Washington, I.

Speaker 3 (25:27):
Was like, huh, okay, yeah, you really can never tell
you can't you cannot.

Speaker 1 (25:36):
But listeners, you can tell us have any memories with
carrot cake, recipes with carrot cake. I would love to
hear about it.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
We do already have some listener mill for you. But
first we have one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with the snoop, right bunny hopping around. That
was really hard to follow. I'm sorry, No, it's my fault.
I'm sorry, Lauren. Good times, good times. I've been up

very late. Okay, yes, fine, yeah, we're doing great. We
have two wonderful messages about our anniversary special, and I
have to say we've gotten even more asking for the
curse cut Savor so can wear Lauren's curse words or

let loose. So that's been great. Yes for now, Eric
wrote seven years already. Congrats Because I binged into the show,
it doesn't feel like it. I hope the show continues
to keep on going for a long time. I enjoy

the nerdiness, the fun, the down to earth feel of everything.
The way you present things makes it enjoyable. I think
it was Dylan who said that when you talk about things,
it creates cravings to learn and try more about it.
And I definitely second that. I'll hear about something that
maybe I was not familiar with or have not had
in a long time, and I'll find a way to

get to it in the next week or two. Lima
beans are a perfect example. Annie. Once you started talking
about them and then provided some recommendations, I gave them
a try. They are good. Not something I make regularly,
but we'll add dishes when looking to change some things up.
I think you hit on something with poop. You have

the SPU Savor Poop universe. Don't cringe from the early episodes. Either,
I love it when a classic pops up. We need
to see Lauren and the Perogy T shirt and we
still want the live show. Cursing won't bother me, and
it would be hysterical to see. Here's to another seven

years at a minimum, hopefully. And here's two more food Yes,
I mean the spu.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
Oh yeah, oh yes, yeah, we're already in it.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
We just haven't branded it yet. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Yeah, it's a really impressively critical part of our food show.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
It is it is. I love how many people who
are fans will bring that up.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
They're like, yes, that's our brand.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Cool, No, it is cool. It was cool. It's great.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
Shelley wrote, I just listened to your anniversary episode, and
it was fun to hear how much delight and enjoyment
has been had on your end, because there's definitely plenty
of that created when I.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
Listened to the podcast. Thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
I was also hoping to bug you to pass along
both recipes from the Orgette episode listener mails pretty please.

Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yes we will, we will, and thank you because you,
Shelley have sent in coffee to us before. Oh oh
that was good coffee. Yes, yeah, oh, thank you. Yeah,
that was during my period where remember I kept running
out of coffee in a grocery store. Shelley came to
the rescue. Yeah, that really saved the day. It definitely did.

But thank you. That's very kind. Glad it's bringing you
joy and it definitely has brought our teen joy as well.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, it really.

Speaker 2 (29:57):
It's again, it's just so awesome working with these humans
and getting to do cool stuff with them, and yeah,
eating food and then talking into a microphone about it.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
Yeah, pretty nice, very nice. Yes, well, thanks to both
of these listeners for writing in. If you would like
to write to us, you can. Our email is hello
at saverrpod dot com. We're also on social media.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.

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