March 14, 2020 • 51 mins
Every culture that eats both pastry and meat has figured out a tasty way to combine them. In honor of Pi Day, Anney and Lauren explore the long history (and bizarre revenge-cannibalism trope) of meat pies.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about meat pies. Meat pies, meat pies. Yes, the
craving is already already, it is so intense. Yeah, this
is a really good meat pie time. It is for
a lot of reasons. Well, okay, yeah, sure. So so
(00:31):
it's Friday, the day that this is coming out, Yes,
and Pie Day is tomorrow, which if you don't know
what you probably do, because who doesn't like pie? Who
doesn't like pie? The number or the food exactly. It's
so it's based on kind of a riff on the
number three point one, five nine, so on, so on,
so on, so on, so on March. Yes. Yes, by
(00:57):
the way, producer Tyler can off the top of his
head very quickly about the first eighty digits of pie. Yes,
and he has it in his bathroom. He has like
a framed photo of it, which we know because we
played D and D together. Also we're friends. But yeah, yeah, um,
if you want to hear him, do that. I've got
an episode about Pie Day on on my other show
(01:20):
Brain Stuff that's coming out tomorrow. And at the end,
he does a recitation. That's awesome. It's really cool. That's
so cool. I was like reading it off the script
and screwed it up and he like cut in and
he was like, hey, I'm sorry, I just really have
to do this, and he just like did it for
like for like twenty seconds, and I was like, oh
my gosh, it's so good. We work with the coolest
(01:42):
people I know, right, I love Okay. Anyway, So so
pies prizes. So yeah, we were frequently celebrate Pie Day,
the p I Pie Day with pies. P I e
s a lot of free pies around Atlanta and probably
wherever you are as well. Were also Friday thirteenth, the
Good Spooky Day. Yes, so we thought, how can we
(02:05):
combine Friday and Pie Day meat pies because they do
feature in a lot of revenge plots, Yes, like a lot.
We're going to go into it in a minute. We
are also just wanted to note Georgia Tech, my alma mater,
they do an annual Pie Day run and we have
(02:25):
the Pie Miles so you can see cut across campus.
So anyone actually is probably canceled o sad, but meat pies.
I love them. Oh yeah, me too. My mom made
I scientifically the best chicken pot pie, and I used
(02:46):
to make Shepherd's pie for any Harry Potter related events. Yes,
and I remember the first time I had a meat
pie in Australia and it was really cold outside and
the pie was so warm and it was so wonderful.
It just sticks out my brain that experience, and I
had them all the time in the UK New Zealand.
We don't really here in the US. It's harder to
find these hand meat pies, yeah, but in those places everywhere,
(03:10):
so I took advantage. Absolutely. There is a meat pie place.
They also do sweet pies, but they do both in
the mall next to what I call Dragon con Territory,
which is downtown in Atlanta, and it's helped me get
through many a dragon Oh gosh, I don't think I've
ever had one of those, and now I need to
look for them. But anyway, Yes, my my dad would
make a chicken pot pie for like at work and
(03:32):
bring some home sometimes because he was a he was
a cheffer a cook depending on how you want to
phrase it. Um it was definitely one of his work
only dishes, though he would not cook that home. I
think that he hated rolling out pastry does as much
as I do. Um. Oh, gosh, I know, right, but uh,
but gosh do I love a meat pie? Uh? The
that that one time that I was in England for
(03:53):
like a week, I had like about one meat pie
per day, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. Um.
There was this meat pie restaurant down the street from
our hotel in Reading called Sweeney and Todd. Oh. Um.
The most spectacular one I had was, um, this this
lamb shank pie at a pub called the Coal Hole
(04:15):
in London. Yeah, it's this former coal seller um for
the Savoy Hotel. And they baked holding bone in lamb
shank into the pie with like with like the shank part,
like the bones sticking up out of the crest. And
it was so good. It was so good. Wow, I've
never had such an epic meat pieh experience. I was
(04:38):
also drinking a lot of pub ale at the time. Um,
drink responsibly, but at any rate, I totally recommend the
Coal Hole. Strong recommendation from Lauren listeners in London anyway. Yes, well,
I've certainly gotta up my savory meat game. Um. And
this is also partially inspired by a recent guest appearance
(05:03):
that Lauren and I did. Yea so um. So, if
y'all know chef Richard Blaze, Um, he was a contestant
on Top Chef way back in the day. He's had
a couple of restaurant concepts open up here in Atlanta.
Um and yeah, he's uh, he's got a podcast probably
coming out with iHeart um that probably within the next
couple of months. It's called food Court, and every episode
(05:26):
Richard plays the judge in a case of like X
versus why, and so Annie and I did a pie
versus cake. Yes, yes, and we will keep you updated.
Oh yeah, well, let's know when it drops. It was
very intense. Yeah, and I think that's in part because
we are both intense. Perhaps that is. I don't think
it was meant to be as intense as we made it. Yeah,
(05:49):
apparently not. But you know, we had a good time.
We had a good time, and we have our way
of doing things. Okay, we have standards to uphold. For
our drink podcast, we thought we had to represent yeah,
and we certainly represented something something. It was fun. It
was fun. It was but okay, let's let's get to
(06:10):
our question. Meat pies. What are they? Well, a meat
pie is a type of pie that contains seasoned meat,
generally among other contents like vegetables and door grains and
door sauce. So so you're you're talking about a flour
pastry crust with savory fillings um baked or pan fried
(06:32):
or deep fried. Those fillings are usually cut into bite
sized or smaller pieces for the ease of eating the
final product, and are sometimes pre cooked or par cooked.
The fillings are sometimes mixed with a thick saucer or
gravy to lend moisture to the product. You know, like
keep the crust tender and prevent the crust from burning,
while also making the filling more cohesive so it doesn't
like crumble or spill out as you eat the pie.
(06:53):
Um that crust, it can be thick or thin, crumbly
or flaky or chewy, fully enveloping, or just a bottom.
Sometimes times the crust is also park cooked before you
put the ingredients in. And yeah, these pies can range
in size from handheld to single serving to multi serving.
They're usually served warm and the result of well, it varies.
It because every culture I mean right in if you
(07:17):
know one that has not. But like every culture that
I know of that has had access to wheat and
also eats animals has developed its own versions of the
meat pie, it does seem that way. Um. The ones
were maybe most familiar with here in the United States
are the aforementioned chicken pop pie, which is a oven
baked like flaky crust pie containing a creamy chicken and
(07:37):
vegetable stew um, and then ground beef based pies like
Shepherd's Pie, also aforementioned, which is oven baked with like
a pastry crust bottom, a filling of ground beef and
vegetable stew in brown gravy, and then a top crust
of mashed potatoes. So good, Oh, it's so good. Oh,
but gosh, like maybe you've had Indian samosa um, those
triangular deep fried hand pies that sometimes contain eat or
(08:01):
the related and also triangular Middle Eastern some bosuck. I'm
I'm realizing as I'm saying this out loud that I've
ever said it out loud before. If I'm saying it wrong,
just let me know. Yeah yeah, um, but yeah, then
there's tortiller double crusted meat pie out of Quebec or
Chinese jian bing, which are pan fried like like a
(08:21):
heavier pot sticker sort of, or empanadas from Spain and Portugal.
In South America and the Philippines, um and pinar, meaning
to wrap in bread, though all kinds of dough are
used these days, depending on the starch available in the location.
Or Moroccan bastilla or Cuban bastillitos or cornish and other pastis.
Um is cal zone a meat pie? Dumb? Dumb? Is it? Yeah? Um?
(08:49):
I don't know. I know in the brief research I
did for that aforementioned Richard Blaye thing. People have strong
opinions about all every certain type of whether it's a
pie or not, like if it has a bottom crust
but no top, everything everything. So I'm sure some people
would consider it, I mean fine, others would not, But
(09:10):
listeners you can write in opinions would. But in the meantime,
some fun etymology for you. The word pie probably came
from the Latin word for magpies. Yes, yes, it's so good.
So prior to the six hundreds these birds were just
called pies or pies. But why name the food after them?
(09:35):
Perhaps after their habit of sticking all kinds of things
in their nest. And that's a solid definition of pie.
Throughout history, all kinds of things have and still do
go into that filling sure. Yeah. And this is how
we got thayings like eat crow and four and twenty
black birds. The name could also be inspired by the
black and white plumage of magpies and the appearance of
(09:57):
medieval times, which at the time the crust was like
very white and the insides often very dark. Yes, there
are records of folks using pie as an adjective for
things that had black and white patches, like piebald horses,
so possible. Sure, yes. Magpies also went by haggis and hags.
Recipes at the time called for all kinds of things too,
(10:20):
yeah magpie. Yes, perhaps not as delightful nutrition. I mean,
you know, meat pies will certainly fill you up and
keep you going so much fat and protein. Um. They're
usually heavy on the fat and the salt and the
carbs low on vege. I would say, parrot with a
nice green salad. Yeah, always recommending a yeah, absolutely, but
(10:45):
you know, I mean, you know, and enjoy him, enjoy him. Yeah,
I feel like and this is no, please don't angrily
right in about this. But when we were in Harry
Potter World in a Universal Orlando, the theme park, UM,
which is post be in England. Yeah, all of the
meat pies they have there do come with a salad.
(11:06):
Oh they do, that's right. Yeah, I consumed one of those, indeed,
but we are aware that that is not necessarily the
most accurate representation of the culinary is scene in the UK.
But just one of my more recent experiences with meat pies. Yeah, sure, yes,
I mean, for for best nutrition, you should probably pay
(11:28):
literally everything you eat all the time with a green salad.
But ice cream and salad. Yeah, official recommendation of savor.
Oh no, we've lost so many, so many people. Right then,
I can hear, I can hear the subscriptions going down.
But we do have kind of well for you. Okay. Yeah,
(11:49):
so like so like global numbers would take a lot
of compiling that I didn't want to do to be
super honest with you guys. But like, but like I
will say that perhaps especially throughout the former British Empire. Um,
but it seems like really everywhere, like the aforementioned everywhere, um,
meat pies are a nostalgic comfort food. If not a
health food. Um. So the balance between those two factors
(12:12):
has led to a rise in meat pie sales through
the first decade of the twenty century as like recession
was happening and stuff like that, and then something of
a dip in the in the second decade of the
twenty century during those those helican times when people didn't
feel like the world was on fire for just a minute. Uh,
everyone trying to eat a little healthier and stuff like that. Um.
(12:35):
But yeah, as as a planet, we are still eating
just a lot of meat pies. Um. Even some of
some of the movements um in some wealthier populations to
move away from meat have been balanced out by some
of the up and coming populations moving towards meat. So yeah, yeah,
And this episode we're going to do more of an overview.
(12:57):
But as we said, there are so many different oh gosh,
and we could do a full history on pretty much
all of these exactly what a fun mini series that
would be. Oh yeah, perhaps one day. But let's talk
about that revenge meat pie. Okay, So this is glorious.
This is one of my very favorite things. Yes, I'm
(13:18):
so glad you came up with this. Um So yeah,
There have been so many cases of meat pies used
for revenge in our pop culture, usually via a person
chopped up and then cooked into a pie and then
fed to an unsuspecting target for revenge. Usually it's somebody
that the person who is eating the pie knew and
cared about, but not always, not always. Sometimes it's just chaos.
(13:41):
It's absolute chaos and the revenge meat pie world. One
of the most famous examples comes from Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus.
For part of his revenge, Titus kills the two men
and bakes them into a meat pie, which he serves
to their mother before killing her too. Um yeah, yeah
to two two of the kind of villains of the piece.
You could argue, and I'm not going to get into
Shakespeare with you all that hard, but I will say
(14:03):
that it's one of those reveal lines because part of
the fun, part of the quote unquote fun, I'm sorry,
I'm so weird, And part of the fun of these
revenge pies is that there's always the moment when they
realize there's there's usually this moment where like someone is like,
oh man, where's this person, and someone else is like,
you're eating them right now? Lawls um, and then they
(14:25):
realize they see something. Yeah oh yeah yeah, And that
moment in Titus Andronicus is is in rhyme because of
course it is. Uh why there they are both baked
in that pie, whereof thy mother daintily hath fed, eating
the flesh that she herself half bread. Yeah, super gross. Also,
(14:46):
I saw the movie when I was probably really too
young to see that movie made eleven. Oh no, oh no,
that's an inappropriate time to see that film. I have
not returned to it because I remember being so disturbed
by this and then the guy who got buried up
to a shoulder, it was just his head. It's going
to be left there. That did I That really freaked
me out. Of course it did. Welcome. I was like,
I'm like ten years older than you, and I was
freaked out when I saw that, so uh huh yeah. Um.
(15:10):
I will also say that there that the the excellent
Vincent Price film Theater of Blood. Um. If you're not
familiar Theater of Blood, it's about all of these murders
based on theatrical stuff. And so there's there's a scene
in that that rifts on this tightest smeatpie thing. Okay,
it's it is so everyone go out, anyone who's like
(15:33):
a little nerd theater nerd, go out and watch it
right now. Price is beautiful after this is done. But
in the meantime, back to that Sweeney Todd thing. Yes, um, so,
for those not familiar, he was a barber from Fleet Street.
Fictional fictional yes, yes, although well I did read some
(15:53):
articles about it. Is he real? Who was he based?
But anyway, and he gave of his partner in crime,
after who you would kill victims, you'd give them to
his partners in crime, Mrs Lovett, who would bake them
into pies sometimes called the worst pies in London. Well,
they were the worst pies in London before she started
putting humans in them. And then they were so delicious
(16:14):
she started selling out all the time. Interesting, yeah, upsetting,
m m m m m m m m m. And
then Game of Thrones gave us one of our most
recent examples of a revenge me pie. No spoilers, it
exists in there, in there somewhere, um and yeah. I
suspect that these latter examples were inspired by the first
(16:36):
by Titus, which was itself inspired by all of these
Greek revenge myths like the Thyestean banquet, in which thiasts
has served his own sons, and the myth of Procne
who serves her husband their son, and maybe specifically where
Shakespeare got his idea for Titus, and the slightly more
historical tale of harpagus Um a general who has served
(16:59):
his own son um, or other Greek myths about eating
and serving your children from a Cronus to Tantalus to
like cayene Um. Although none of these are done in pies. Sure, um,
interesting yeah or not? Not? To my personal knowledge, I've
never seen a translation be like it was pie format, right,
and then that can be kind of tricky. But I've
(17:19):
never really considered other forms of revenge pies or not
revenge eating of your children. Oh there's that South Park
episode Scott something Must Die. Uh it's chili. Yeah, alright,
Cartman's are like made to eat your parents. Well, now
I have this concern that perhaps I shouldn't but no, no,
(17:43):
I mean it is. It is a whole trope. It
is a whole popular enough trope that it has its
own category in TV tropes, among many other cannibalism tropes,
um called familial surprise cannibalism. That's one of my favorite things.
I'm really surprise cannibalism like thanks humanity, Like, yeah, at
(18:06):
least we all agree that it's monstrous, if in an
entertaining way. Well, and of course, um, not not revenge wise,
but just baking people into pies wise. Um. There is
an episode of Hannibal that features a human kidney pie.
The crust on it is even stamped with like the
design from the face masks that are used on criminals
(18:26):
in that franchise. It's really cute. I I know that.
I've seen it, um and was always slightly disturbed by
how delicious everything looked at that show. Oh yeah, I
think that's part of the p Yeah, I think that's
what they were going for. Well, well done, success. I've
really only interacted with that. I've never watched it. I've
really only interacted with it through food blogs, recreating and
(18:50):
a pulse meals with hypothetically non human ingredients. Again, humans
love it, all right, let's take a hard sure, sure,
and let's talk about humble pie. Okay, yeah, the phrase.
So we were all probably familiar with this phrase eating
humble pie. All right, So I was curious where this
(19:11):
came from and I looked, I looked it up. And
so removing the liver, heart and trails and other organs
from a deer and cooking them used to be a
common practice. And those innerds were called numbles with an inn. Okay, yes,
And this came from the old French nombles, which came
from the Latin lumbulus, meaning a little loin. The word
(19:33):
for loin was lumbus. This is also where we get
the word lumbar from. Yeah. But anyway, the cheap inners
were more often eaten by the poor. Eventually the in
was dropped to humble pie. And you can see with accents. Yeah, yeah, humbulpie. Sure, yeah,
humble pie, totally yeah. But essentially it was it's deer
(19:54):
was a popular one. But any kind of cheap inners
that if you could afford not to, you wouldn't eat
when to the pie, So eating humble pie, humble pie,
there you go. So when it comes to two pies
here in the United States, I would say we most
of us think of sweet pies first. Yes, and that's
(20:15):
not the case in a lot of other places in
the world, but here sweet pies. But that was not
always true oh no, for a lot of history, it
certainly was not. And we will get into that after
we get back from a quick break for a word
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
(20:39):
thank you. So pies have a long history, yes, The
first records of pie go all the way back to
six thousand BC and ancient Egypt. The time they were
called galletts, and they were typically made with oats, rye, barley,
and wheat and a honey filling. To cook them, people
(21:01):
use hot coals are rocks heated by hot coals for
like early method of baking, if we skip ahead to
baker started adding things like nuts and fruits to the filling.
Bread dough frequently acted as the crust. One of the
ways we know about this is through drawings discovered in
the tomb of Ramsey's the second that is delightful. You know,
(21:25):
I want to appie depiction on my tombstone if I
ever have. I don't know what are those called mausoleums? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would, Oh yeah yeah. We would get you some
real good, real high quality higher glyphs. All all the
pineapples and all the pies. I love it. I love it.
In the future, they will be like, what s about
(21:47):
It's clear, it's right there on the wall, pineapples. That's
all you need to know about me. The ancient Greeks
are believed to have come up with the pie pastry,
a paste made out of flower and water, as opposed
to at or bread crust. Um. This was then commonly
filled with meat. Ancient Romans adopted this practice, probably filling
their early pies with all kinds of meats, including oysters, muscles,
(22:11):
and lamp prey's. Kato the Elder included one of his
times most popular pie recipes um so this was around
one BC. The work he did around agriculture had a
recipe for it for placentas, which was a pie, yes,
and they These pies were sometimes used as offerings for gods.
(22:33):
They were sort of cheesecake like, baked in a pastry.
As pies spread, people adapted recipes to fit what they
had access to in their region. Early pie crust served
far more as a cooking and storage container and serving
implement rather than food. Yes. In fact, the pastry part
(22:58):
was often so tough, probably inedible, essentially inedible, yeah, essentially inedible.
The crust had to be really thick to survive long
baking times. For centuries, pretty much anything baked was a
pie because the crust was the only container that we had. Yeah,
I mean, pyrex had not been invented yet, and the
crust would keep the heat and the steam and the
(23:19):
juices of the product inside exactly. Perhaps because of this,
the English called early pies their coffins, which then meant
boxer basket. I guess it's still kind of does, even
though it's more specific. It's a specific type now. Yes,
many of the first pies were savory, with tall, straight
crust sealed at the top and bottom. A pie without
(23:40):
a pastry over the top was called a trap. Just
want to throw that in there like that. Tough crust
soaked with juices were sometimes given to the poor. Are
two servants. Legend puts northern Chinese meat pies to least
at least the ninth century ce Um. There's a there's
a tale of an emperor disguising himself as a commoner
to go outside the alice and uh and being blown
(24:01):
away by the beef pastries that he found out there.
Um uh. Though these are linked to a savory pancakes
in Chinese cuisine, which go thousands of years further back,
so mysteries history. Sometimes meanwhile, by that same ninth or
tenth century see Persian and other Middle Eastern literature mentioned
these savory handheld triangular pastries, like the sampsa um, which
(24:26):
is probably the root of those similar triangular things that
we mentioned earlier. Um. These may have been filled with
minced meats, nuts, and dried fruit at fancy tables. Both
sweet and savory. Sumpsuck were mentioned in a thirteenth century
cookbook with the with the meaty one flavored with a
coriander and cumin and pepper, cinnamon, mint and ground almonds um.
(24:46):
Samosa were recorded um at Indian royal courts as early
as the fourteenth century, reportedly filled with stuff like mince meat, peas, pistachios,
and almonds um or with a meat, ghee and onion um.
But lower classes we're eating these types of savory pies
as well, or probably a little bit less fancy, probably
(25:06):
fewer maybe fewer spices, you know, whatever was on hand um.
But reportedly, like like merchants traveling the Silk Road carried
these snacks and that's how they became a popular street
food across the Middle East and South Asia. Well, they
are convenient in that way because they do come in
their own container. Exactly makes sense to me. During the
(25:26):
thirteenth century, we see the first mentions of mince pies
as European crusaders coming back from the Middle East with
recipes involving spices, meats, and fruits arrived and they became
associated with religious meals. Okay, okay. Mince Pies were subsequently
banned during the seventeenth century under Oliver Cromwell's rule because
(25:47):
as a Puritan a pie it was too indulgent for Cromwell. Guy,
that guy. Because of this, people were eating pie and
secret for sixteen years. Wow, and this is of those things.
When I read, I thought, surely that that's apocryphal or
that's just a fun story. Seems to be true. It
(26:09):
seems to me it's like no pie, okay, I'm telling you.
According to the Dictionary, the word pie was used to
refer to the food all the way back to one
Canterbury Tales mentions pie for eating p y e yes.
During medieval times in Europe, pie crust was still much
(26:32):
much deffer, often requiring a spoon or some other implement
to crack it open. These crust could be baked first
and would form sort of pie in the pot that like,
this is where we get the turn pot pie. Okay, Yeah,
sweet pies were called tarts, with recorded recipes dating back
to the hundreds. Since sugar was so expensive during the time,
(26:53):
a lot of these tarts didn't have sugar unless you're
in the upper class. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure that
tart is still British English for a sweet pie, and
pie generally means a savory pie, though there does also
seem to be a distinction between tart being open topped
and a pie being closed up as well. I ran
into that a lot when I was doing my preliminary research. Yes, okay,
(27:18):
we have to talk about animated pies. Animated pies like
like in like like like Beauty and the Beast or something. No,
I was like, is there an animated pie? I don't
think there is. I was stretching. Yes, okay. These were
a popular form of entertainment at European banquets during the Okay,
(27:40):
so you might have heard of them through this nursery
rhyme sing a song of sixpence four and twenty blackbirds
baked in a pie. When the pie was opened, the
birds began to sing. Wasn't that a dainty dish to
set before the king? Or maybe you're in or some
birds flying out of Geoffreeze pie if you watched Game
of Thrones. So yeah, these were pies that had live
(28:02):
animals and sometimes humans and sometimes other things um inside them,
anything from birds or rabbits to turtles to frogs ready
to emerge when the crust was cut. I love the
frogs thing. I did too. I just think it would
be chaos, right, You're like frogs hopping everywhere? Are birds
flying out and attacking people? I don't know. I don't
(28:25):
think they probably wouldn't attack people. I mean, I don't
know the hearts of birds, that's true, But you are
suspicious of the hearts of birds. I am. We've discussed
at length. For some reason, Producer Andrew still likes me
to spite that. Well. I'm glad that you two were
able to work it out. Work it out, um. So,
just to be clear, the animals and or people were
(28:48):
not baked into the pie. No, Yes, they were added
after the crust had been cooked, either via a hole
in the bottom or by lifting the top and then
replacing it back. Yeah right. French King Charles the Fifth
love to throw banquets with all sorts of entertainment when
he ranged during the Threds, and food was no exception.
(29:10):
His chefs created what they called subtlety or subtlety. I
didn't look into it, but I have a real hope
that this is where the word subtlety comes from. I
suspect yes. And these were ornamentally disguised foods, frequently not
meant to be eaten. Um. Also, as time went on,
subtlety could refer to all kinds of entertainment, not just food. Okay,
to add further confusion, but anyway. One famous example came
(29:31):
from the chef of the Duke of Burgundy when he
made a pie big enough to house twenty eight musicians
that played as the pie was opened, plus a quote
captive girl meant to symbolize how the church was captive
in the Middle East. Twenty eight musicians inside a pie
(29:52):
plus a plus a lady plus a lady. That's a lotus.
There was a big pie in sixteen t you six
At a banquet for King Charles the First and Queen
Henrietta Maria, they were served a pie with a very
small child dressed in armor inside, and he rose up
as the pie was opened and bowed to the queen.
(30:14):
His name was Jeffrey Hudson, though after this he was
dubbed Lord Minimus. He served her for almost two decades,
was twice kidnapped by pirates and jailed after a duel.
And why is this not a movie or a show
on HBO? Oh gosh, the The Adventures of Lord Minimus.
I want it. I think it will happen to get
(30:35):
a story right. It's too good. A book out of
Italy about throwing baquets had this recommendation, Oh god, here
we go. You got this at this? Are you okay? Okay?
Believe in you? Okay, okay? To make pie that the
birds may be alive in them and fly out when
(30:55):
it is cut up. Make the coffin of a great
pie or pastry in the bottom thereof make a hole
as big as your fist, or bigger if you will,
let the size of the coffin be somewhat higher than
ordinary pies, which done, put it full of flour and
bake it, and being baked, open the hole in the
bottom and take out the flower. Then having a pie
of the bigness of the hole in the bottom of
the coffin. Afore said, you shall put it into the coffin,
(31:19):
with all put into the said coffin round about the
afour said pie, as many small live birds as the
empty coffin will hold besides the pie. And this is
to be at such time as you send the pie
to the table, And said before the guest we're uncovering
are cutting up the lid of the great pie, all
the birds will fly out, which is to delight and
(31:41):
pleasure shoe to the company. And because they shall not
be altogether mocked, you shall cut open the small pie.
And in this sort you may make many others. And
like you may do with the tart. That's a recipe
you wouldn't really see so much these days. That's the
first one of those that I've ever read me do,
(32:02):
And it was quite fun. Oh gosh, I'm just I'm
just thinking about just just baseline sanitation issues of having
a pie that you're going to eat and a whole
bunch of birds, Yes, in the same unit of space.
It is true that that, But you know, at a
certain point, have fun with it, right, enjoy yourself. I
(32:24):
suppose I mean, we still do those cakes where ladies
pop out. I don't think I think it's a is
it not a real case? I think it's like cardboard
and plastic. Wow, I've been living a lot this whole time.
I didn't not I could be wrong. I'm not sure.
Maybe I'll have to do an episode on it. Maybe.
But in the meantime, yes. Uh. Meanwhile, during all of
(32:46):
this time, um like since like the eighth century, Muslims
had been living in and sometimes ruling in parts of
what's now the Iberian Peninsula, and they brought with them
meat pies, possibly the same ones that inspire its mosa um.
Those went on to inspire and panadas. By the fifteen twenties,
a Catalan cookbook mentions seafood and panatas. Also during the
(33:09):
sixteenth century, pastry ingredients started uppearing in recipes. This is
probably because this is when cookbooks started being made not
only for professional chefs, yeah, or like not quite like
professional chefs like we think of them today, because that
wasn't a thing yet outside of rural courts, um but
but but rather like up until this point, cookbooks would
have been ways for royal courts to share information and
(33:33):
like show off to each other. Um. But after the
printing press was invented in the fourteen hundreds, books slowly
became available to like, not just the upper upper class,
but also like the regular upper class. Yeah. Um so
these early printed cookbooks around the sixteenth century um uh
and and like books of household management were for the
(33:53):
heads of estates and for their staff. Um and so
therefore recipes got a little bit more practical to actually
share something useful rather than just being likely look at
what I did, I am better than you. Records show
that the English and Irish were making shepherd's pie and
cottage pie by the seventeenth century. Lamb and vegetable filling
(34:15):
for shepherd's pie Shepherd's ten lamb makes sense, beef and
vegetables for cottage pie, and both topped with potatoes. So
this means I should have been making cottage pie for
my Harry Potter parties because you were using ground beef. Well, yes,
I should have been using ground beef because you know
(34:35):
it's it. It's based in I guess it's based in Scotland,
so I should check out what's going on there. I
suspect both Honestly, both Yeah, at this point, definitely. Um,
these were frugal pies, ways to use up leftovers and
cheap available ingredients. Again, that's a recurring theme. Cottage is
thought to refer to this and that the lower class
(34:56):
who were probably making and eating that pie frequently lived
in cottages. As European colonists arrived in North America, they
brought with them their favorite pie recipes and then adapted
those recipes to what was available in the New World.
Pie was often present at every meal for early American pioneers,
and since food is such a huge part of any
(35:17):
kind of celebration, pies became involved in all kinds of
contests and celebrations like fairs, are picnics, the Blue Ribbon
pie um. The move westward of people gave way to
the development of more regional pies as well. In the
sixteen hundred settlers in Quebec eight tortiller as a part
(35:38):
of their post Christmas Eve mass celebrations. I've seen a
lot of things about how pies were connected to holidays
in these times, for sure. From Martha's Historic Cookbook, one
of George Washington's favorite pies was filled with sweetbreads, which
are neither sweet nor bread um. And you can see
our episode therefore named um uh about the ingredient from
(35:59):
June of when He's seventeen for more on that. Yes,
also a video we did, Oh we did. That was
a delicious video. It was very very good and it
has one of the most um I think, touching visuals
of people sharing, like laughing and sharing times over food
because Tyler, who was our video editor producer at the time,
(36:23):
he we didn't know it, but he left the camera
running as we ate. We shared this food together, sweetbreads,
and we were just like laughing and having a good
time and eating, clearly enjoying ourselves, and he sped it up.
And I don't know, every time I watch it, I
get a little touched, like I have food. Yes, yes,
So you can find that online. It is available. In
(36:44):
the eighteen hundreds, Germany's Emperor William the First was treated
to his favorite pie when visiting England's Queen Victoria. A
pie with here we go, an entire turkey, stuffed with
an entire chicken, stuffed with an entire pheasant, stuffed with
an hire woodcock. Oh now that is quite the pie.
That is a filling pie. That is that is a pie.
(37:07):
But okay, why is it that pies in America are
most often associated with dessert? Why is it Annie? Why
is it Well, when sugar became more affordable, sweet pies
became more than norm in the United States. According to
Carl Degler in Out of Our Past The Forces that
shaped Modern America, quote, pie in England to this day
(37:27):
means a meat pie, but in the colonies that was
a pope pie. Pie was reserved for the fruit pastry.
And I believe he goes on to say, or somebody
else in this kind of argument about what how did
this happen in the US said it was just kind
of us being spiteful too, Like we're gonna call this
thing pie, We're gonna call your meat pie pie, doing
(37:49):
our own thing. Yeah, that's the very like America going
through there, Like I mean, not just teenager phase but right.
But it was a very right, whole rebellion. Yes, yes,
and we've talked about that before as well with cookies. Right,
So maybe it's a dessert type we were we got
sugar here, um, but that doesn't mean that savory prize
(38:14):
weren't around. Sure in the United States. Going back to Amelia,
Simmons is American cookery. The ratio of sweet to savory
recipes in that for pies is about even. But as
sugar plantations proliferated across the southern United States and and
elsewhere nearby, sweet pies were super exciting. I was trying
to really imagine this other day. Imagine you had never
(38:37):
really had access to that level of sweetness. It had
kind of been out of your reach, and then this
whole world opens up to you, and of course you'd
be like, oh, we could put we could put sugar
in there, we can sugar in there, Like why not,
let's do it. Yeah, I get it. I totally, I
totally see drunk on sugar power, on sugar power. When
Europeans settled New Zealand in the nineteenth century, they fundamentally
(38:59):
transfer armed the food culture there, and one of the
first recorded instances of a meat pie in that country
dates back to eighteen sixty three, most likely a mutton pie. Yeah.
Australia and New Zealand both very big meat pie cultures,
very much. I believe someone wrote in called it like
it's an icon. It's an icon. Yeah. During probition America,
(39:19):
the alcohol content of canned mince pie filling shot up
by fourteen percent. Indeed. Um In ninety seven, speaking of
Australian meat pie icons um, the brand four and twenty debut. Yes,
it's named after the four and twenty Blackbirds poem. Um. Today,
four and twenty is just a mainstay of Australian football
(39:42):
stadiums and convenience stores. They're everywhere. Yeah um. In nineteen
fifty one, the first frozen meat pie hit the supermarkets,
a Swanson's Chicken pot pie. Yes, I've had a many
of those. Oh, yes, me too. In nineteen seven, a
meat pie based fast food chain in New Zealand, Georgie Pie,
opened the doors of its first stores. It closed in
(40:06):
the nineteen nineties, but in two thousand thirteen McDonald's added
Georgie Pies to its menu. Yeah, I'm not sure if
it's still on it if anyone right in and firm.
In two thousand three, Louisiana legislature named Nakatush meat pie
as the official meat pie. And I've actually had these, yeah,
(40:27):
for those who haven't, It's like an empanada filled with
spiced meat. And the legend of Nakatush meat pies nineteenth
century vendors used to shout hot to meat pies. Historians
put four theories that they originate from both French and
Spanish settlers. Probably is a coming together of a lot
of things, as is with many things in Louisiana food culture. Yeah. Absolutely,
(40:52):
So that's about what we have to say on meat pies.
Although we could have kept going and going, oh my gosh, yeah,
this is one that I had to really hold myself
back on. Um, And so to avoid just all of
the yeah, we'll have to do individual episodes on many,
many many things, yes, many many delicious things. Like I was,
I was doing research for this last night as the
(41:14):
hour was growing late, and I was and I was
eating dinner, and I was like, oh no, so I
as I have said, I was recently in Montreal, and um,
it was very cold up there, quite cold. And somebody
in the group because I went for a puppetry festival
(41:34):
and we were having a group dinner and somebody got
shepherd's pie and I freaked out. And he didn't know me,
like we knew each other, but not that well. And
then all of a sudden, I was like, oh my god,
can I take a picture? And he was like Okay,
let's step back. It's going on here, and said, oh
I want a food buck. Okay, I gokay, just an
(41:54):
episode on me pies. Oh that's delightful. Yeah yeah, he
was very patient. I'll probably be posting that picture soon. Yeah.
Cool fun times. Oh yeah, I need to I have
I have some little like like frozen samosas and my
freezer that I somehow did not eat all of last night.
(42:14):
But I'm coming for you samosa's. Your time is limited.
I've never made a meat pie at home. I pie
crest again, like just kind of pisces me off. So h,
but I think I'm thinking I'm gonna have to make one. Absolutely, Um,
(42:35):
I feel like I don't I think I might cheat
or not technically make a shepherd's pie because I don't
think I do the bottom crust. Oh you're making a casserole.
That's different. And I've been lying to myself and my
friends all this time. My hairy potter thing parties are inaccurate.
(42:56):
I am brought shame to my house of Griffin or yeah,
five points from Griffin door, dude, says the huffle puff
who's buy the kitchens and knows these things. I couldn't
afford to lose the point. Griffin Door always wins. Anyway,
It's okay always. I know there's like that one time,
(43:20):
and I still think about that one time. I will
update my if I ever have a Harry Potter theme
party again, which seems really likely, I'll update the menu. Okay, okay, good,
I'm glad I could meet your standards. Maybe we should.
We can join up and you can make a meat
by and I can make a meat by, and then
(43:40):
we'll mark off two things on our list. Oh. Perfect, Yeah,
and then everyone gets to eat more meat pie. I
love it. Perfect, let's do it. Okay. In the meanwhile,
we um we do have some listener mail. But first
we've got another quick break for a word from our sponsor.
(44:05):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with it feels like a very like I
don't know something. In Lord of the Rings you need
a lot of meat pies. For some reason, I associate
gruffness with Lord of the Rings. Maybe I just GIMBLI
really made an impact of h Yeah, I gotta explain
my process, no I oh gosh, Chelsea wrote, First, I
(44:32):
want to thank you both for your wonderful podcast. Oh
thank you. I have been listening since day one and
have learned so much. Today I listened to your Macadamia
Net episode and I wanted to share a brief story
related to macadamia nuts and dogs to save you unnecessary panic.
This story ends happily, so don't worry. Oh gosh, I worried. Yes,
I'm so good you had that in there. About ten
(44:54):
years ago, my parents went on vacation to Hawaii. While
they were there, my mom purchased about a dozen boxes
of Mauna Loa chocolate covered mcadamia nuts to bring home
as gifts for friends and family. Each box of a
dozen chocolate custers was individually shrink wrapped and taped shut.
When she got home, she placed the boxes in a
shopping bag and left them in our garage so that
(45:14):
they would stay cool and not melt cool. It takes sense, definitely.
Later that day, we all went out to dinner, and
we returned. We were shocked and horrified to see a
trail of chocolate boxes littering the floor of the garage
all the way to the dog door, and continuing on
into that. Each box had been torn apart and chewed.
(45:34):
Two pieces, enraged that her precious gifts had been so
heartlessly devoured by our dog. I'm bombarded into the house
and shouted for our schnauser, Coda to come. Not surprisingly,
Coda was keeping a low profile, or so we thought.
We found him a moment later, lying on the floor
in the family room, desperately trying to run to us,
but unable to stand. From what we could tell, his
(45:55):
front legs were working, but his hind legs were a mobile.
Sure enough, the side of my dad sent him into
joyful panic, and he proceeded to drag himself across the
floor like a seal to get to him. We all
freaked out and rushed into the animal hospital to see
what was wrong. Turns out Schnauzers are particularly susceptible to
macadamia nut poisoning. Fortunately, the vet told us that the
paralyzing effects were only temporary and would go away within
(46:18):
a few days. Once it became clear that Coda would
be okay, everyone's mood shifted from fear and anxiety to
smug satisfaction that greedy dog had gotten the karma you
so richly deserved. None of us had gotten to try
the magical macadamia nutclusters, and now we never would. Of course,
it didn't take along for his pitiful seal crawl and
(46:39):
sad face to have us all spoiling him for the
next few days. But I don't think my mom ever
forgave him for what he did. I hope you find
this story as entertaining as our family does. We still
laugh about it, and it's become a fond memory and
a valuable lesson for all of us. Yes, yeah, those
are some sour grapes. I like it. Yeah, I love
(47:01):
I have one story that's close to this. Well, no,
I probably have more, but one that comes immediately to
mind right eight, an entire sixty four ounce Hershey's bar
to myself during Constantine the movie. Oh gosh. Within ten
minutes of that movie being over, my friends have been
making fun of me, like you shouldn't do that, and
I was like, ha ha, I was projectile, just stocolate.
(47:24):
It lasted for so long, like my friends eventually said, look,
I gotta go home feel better. Wow, So that was
pretty pretty quick. Just desserts. Oh no, uh, well, I'm
sorry that that happened to you, and I'm glad that
an important lesson was learned that day, sim I learned.
(47:46):
I still over eat quite often, but maybe not sixty
four ounces of chocolate. No, I don't do that anymore.
Good for you, Yes, thank you. Rose wrote it is
my civic duty to bring to light a very important topic,
parogies versus paroshky's. Not knowing the difference can have real
world consequences. It can cost you your livelihood. I kid
you not. I know because it happened to me. In
(48:08):
your recent episode on Parogue's, they were described as parogy
are filled dumplings of Central and Eastern European origin, made
by wrapping unleavened dough around a savory or sweet filling,
and cooking and boiling water or pan frying. Personally, for
the longest time, I was not fond of paroges. I'm
not a huge fan of the mashed potato filling, but
I'm a huge fan of paros keys. From Wikipedia, Posky
(48:31):
are Russian and Ukrainian baked or fried, yeast leavened, boat
shaped buns with a variety of fillings. Paroshky are a
popular street food and comfort food in far Eastern Europe.
In Seattle, we have both a small Polish community and
Ukrainian Russian community, meaning we have both perogus and paroskey shops,
mostly parosh Key and even one of the most famous
(48:51):
establishments in Pike Place Market Paroshky. Paroshky will have long
lines wrapped around the corner to get one of their
baked treats as cinnamon spice fills the air from their
apple Peroshki with a variety of fillings both sweet and savory,
all wrapped in a fluffy, yeasted dough and baked to
golden perfection. Paroshky can't be beat. Well, if you think
those are fighting words, you're not wrong. Many years ago,
(49:14):
I applied to a coveted work position in Japan. After
going through several rounds of interviews, testing, and even flying
to l A for the last interview stage, I thought
I had a great chance at getting the position. The
last interview was a group interview, and for some stupid reason,
I brought up my love of Paroshky's. Out of nowhere,
one of the other interviewees pops up and corrects me
(49:34):
and says, no, you mean parogus a guest, and a
little startled, I said, no, paroshkeys, a baked, delicious treat
with different fillings from Russia. The second interview, he chimes in, no,
that's a perogue and they're boiled, not baked, and they're Polish.
Now I was just mad. First off, do not tell
(49:54):
me there's no such thing as a paroshky, and second,
don't fight with me about it during a job interview.
After several back and forth, the other interviewees decided I
made up paroshki because I was too embarrassed to admit
I was wrong. Needless to say, I did not get
the job, and those two yets is did. So. Yes, people,
they are a thing. Wow, oh my gosh. Yeah, don't
(50:20):
somebody in a job. And now this is also why
I strongly disapprove of group interviews. Yeah, yeah, I mean honestly,
like I would say, Rose that you probably actually like
sort of lucked out, because any company that puts you
through that does not have your best interests at heart. Yeah.
Then they don't even know about Yeah, and they certainly
(50:43):
didn't learn their lesson delicious paroshki. No, they didn't. Lessons,
very important lessons. Yes, I do want to add another
thing from Montreal. I met someone from Alberta, the giant parogi.
Yeah yeah, and she had pictures on her phone and
she showed me the giant egg. It's huge and it
(51:04):
moves cool. I know, alright, but she was telling me
all about all the Parogue options she's from, and I
felt such jealousy. Yeah, we'll just have to go two bad,
said twist our arm. Well, thanks to both of them
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is hello at savor pod dot com.
(51:27):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod uh and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. Thank you as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(51:47):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about meat pies. Meat pies, meat pies. Yes, the
craving is already already, it is so intense. Yeah, this
is a really good meat pie time. It is for
a lot of reasons. Well, okay, yeah, sure. So so
(00:31):
it's Friday, the day that this is coming out, Yes,
and Pie Day is tomorrow, which if you don't know
what you probably do, because who doesn't like pie? Who
doesn't like pie? The number or the food exactly. It's
so it's based on kind of a riff on the
number three point one, five nine, so on, so on,
so on, so on, so on March. Yes. Yes, by
(00:57):
the way, producer Tyler can off the top of his
head very quickly about the first eighty digits of pie. Yes,
and he has it in his bathroom. He has like
a framed photo of it, which we know because we
played D and D together. Also we're friends. But yeah, yeah, um,
if you want to hear him, do that. I've got
an episode about Pie Day on on my other show
(01:20):
Brain Stuff that's coming out tomorrow. And at the end,
he does a recitation. That's awesome. It's really cool. That's
so cool. I was like reading it off the script
and screwed it up and he like cut in and
he was like, hey, I'm sorry, I just really have
to do this, and he just like did it for
like for like twenty seconds, and I was like, oh
my gosh, it's so good. We work with the coolest
(01:42):
people I know, right, I love Okay. Anyway, So so
pies prizes. So yeah, we were frequently celebrate Pie Day,
the p I Pie Day with pies. P I e
s a lot of free pies around Atlanta and probably
wherever you are as well. Were also Friday thirteenth, the
Good Spooky Day. Yes, so we thought, how can we
(02:05):
combine Friday and Pie Day meat pies because they do
feature in a lot of revenge plots, Yes, like a lot.
We're going to go into it in a minute. We
are also just wanted to note Georgia Tech, my alma mater,
they do an annual Pie Day run and we have
(02:25):
the Pie Miles so you can see cut across campus.
So anyone actually is probably canceled o sad, but meat pies.
I love them. Oh yeah, me too. My mom made
I scientifically the best chicken pot pie, and I used
(02:46):
to make Shepherd's pie for any Harry Potter related events. Yes,
and I remember the first time I had a meat
pie in Australia and it was really cold outside and
the pie was so warm and it was so wonderful.
It just sticks out my brain that experience, and I
had them all the time in the UK New Zealand.
We don't really here in the US. It's harder to
find these hand meat pies, yeah, but in those places everywhere,
(03:10):
so I took advantage. Absolutely. There is a meat pie place.
They also do sweet pies, but they do both in
the mall next to what I call Dragon con Territory,
which is downtown in Atlanta, and it's helped me get
through many a dragon Oh gosh, I don't think I've
ever had one of those, and now I need to
look for them. But anyway, Yes, my my dad would
make a chicken pot pie for like at work and
(03:32):
bring some home sometimes because he was a he was
a cheffer a cook depending on how you want to
phrase it. Um it was definitely one of his work
only dishes, though he would not cook that home. I
think that he hated rolling out pastry does as much
as I do. Um. Oh, gosh, I know, right, but uh,
but gosh do I love a meat pie? Uh? The
that that one time that I was in England for
(03:53):
like a week, I had like about one meat pie
per day, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. Um.
There was this meat pie restaurant down the street from
our hotel in Reading called Sweeney and Todd. Oh. Um.
The most spectacular one I had was, um, this this
lamb shank pie at a pub called the Coal Hole
(04:15):
in London. Yeah, it's this former coal seller um for
the Savoy Hotel. And they baked holding bone in lamb
shank into the pie with like with like the shank part,
like the bones sticking up out of the crest. And
it was so good. It was so good. Wow, I've
never had such an epic meat pieh experience. I was
(04:38):
also drinking a lot of pub ale at the time. Um,
drink responsibly, but at any rate, I totally recommend the
Coal Hole. Strong recommendation from Lauren listeners in London anyway. Yes, well,
I've certainly gotta up my savory meat game. Um. And
this is also partially inspired by a recent guest appearance
(05:03):
that Lauren and I did. Yea so um. So, if
y'all know chef Richard Blaze, Um, he was a contestant
on Top Chef way back in the day. He's had
a couple of restaurant concepts open up here in Atlanta.
Um and yeah, he's uh, he's got a podcast probably
coming out with iHeart um that probably within the next
couple of months. It's called food Court, and every episode
(05:26):
Richard plays the judge in a case of like X
versus why, and so Annie and I did a pie
versus cake. Yes, yes, and we will keep you updated.
Oh yeah, well, let's know when it drops. It was
very intense. Yeah, and I think that's in part because
we are both intense. Perhaps that is. I don't think
it was meant to be as intense as we made it. Yeah,
(05:49):
apparently not. But you know, we had a good time.
We had a good time, and we have our way
of doing things. Okay, we have standards to uphold. For
our drink podcast, we thought we had to represent yeah,
and we certainly represented something something. It was fun. It
was fun. It was but okay, let's let's get to
(06:10):
our question. Meat pies. What are they? Well, a meat
pie is a type of pie that contains seasoned meat,
generally among other contents like vegetables and door grains and
door sauce. So so you're you're talking about a flour
pastry crust with savory fillings um baked or pan fried
(06:32):
or deep fried. Those fillings are usually cut into bite
sized or smaller pieces for the ease of eating the
final product, and are sometimes pre cooked or par cooked.
The fillings are sometimes mixed with a thick saucer or
gravy to lend moisture to the product. You know, like
keep the crust tender and prevent the crust from burning,
while also making the filling more cohesive so it doesn't
like crumble or spill out as you eat the pie.
(06:53):
Um that crust, it can be thick or thin, crumbly
or flaky or chewy, fully enveloping, or just a bottom.
Sometimes times the crust is also park cooked before you
put the ingredients in. And yeah, these pies can range
in size from handheld to single serving to multi serving.
They're usually served warm and the result of well, it varies.
It because every culture I mean right in if you
(07:17):
know one that has not. But like every culture that
I know of that has had access to wheat and
also eats animals has developed its own versions of the
meat pie, it does seem that way. Um. The ones
were maybe most familiar with here in the United States
are the aforementioned chicken pop pie, which is a oven
baked like flaky crust pie containing a creamy chicken and
(07:37):
vegetable stew um, and then ground beef based pies like
Shepherd's Pie, also aforementioned, which is oven baked with like
a pastry crust bottom, a filling of ground beef and
vegetable stew in brown gravy, and then a top crust
of mashed potatoes. So good, Oh, it's so good. Oh,
but gosh, like maybe you've had Indian samosa um, those
triangular deep fried hand pies that sometimes contain eat or
(08:01):
the related and also triangular Middle Eastern some bosuck. I'm
I'm realizing as I'm saying this out loud that I've
ever said it out loud before. If I'm saying it wrong,
just let me know. Yeah yeah, um, but yeah, then
there's tortiller double crusted meat pie out of Quebec or
Chinese jian bing, which are pan fried like like a
(08:21):
heavier pot sticker sort of, or empanadas from Spain and Portugal.
In South America and the Philippines, um and pinar, meaning
to wrap in bread, though all kinds of dough are
used these days, depending on the starch available in the location.
Or Moroccan bastilla or Cuban bastillitos or cornish and other pastis.
Um is cal zone a meat pie? Dumb? Dumb? Is it? Yeah? Um?
(08:49):
I don't know. I know in the brief research I
did for that aforementioned Richard Blaye thing. People have strong
opinions about all every certain type of whether it's a
pie or not, like if it has a bottom crust
but no top, everything everything. So I'm sure some people
would consider it, I mean fine, others would not, But
(09:10):
listeners you can write in opinions would. But in the meantime,
some fun etymology for you. The word pie probably came
from the Latin word for magpies. Yes, yes, it's so good.
So prior to the six hundreds these birds were just
called pies or pies. But why name the food after them?
(09:35):
Perhaps after their habit of sticking all kinds of things
in their nest. And that's a solid definition of pie.
Throughout history, all kinds of things have and still do
go into that filling sure. Yeah. And this is how
we got thayings like eat crow and four and twenty
black birds. The name could also be inspired by the
black and white plumage of magpies and the appearance of
(09:57):
medieval times, which at the time the crust was like
very white and the insides often very dark. Yes, there
are records of folks using pie as an adjective for
things that had black and white patches, like piebald horses,
so possible. Sure, yes. Magpies also went by haggis and hags.
Recipes at the time called for all kinds of things too,
(10:20):
yeah magpie. Yes, perhaps not as delightful nutrition. I mean,
you know, meat pies will certainly fill you up and
keep you going so much fat and protein. Um. They're
usually heavy on the fat and the salt and the
carbs low on vege. I would say, parrot with a
nice green salad. Yeah, always recommending a yeah, absolutely, but
(10:45):
you know, I mean, you know, and enjoy him, enjoy him. Yeah,
I feel like and this is no, please don't angrily
right in about this. But when we were in Harry
Potter World in a Universal Orlando, the theme park, UM,
which is post be in England. Yeah, all of the
meat pies they have there do come with a salad.
(11:06):
Oh they do, that's right. Yeah, I consumed one of those, indeed,
but we are aware that that is not necessarily the
most accurate representation of the culinary is scene in the UK.
But just one of my more recent experiences with meat pies. Yeah, sure, yes,
I mean, for for best nutrition, you should probably pay
(11:28):
literally everything you eat all the time with a green salad.
But ice cream and salad. Yeah, official recommendation of savor.
Oh no, we've lost so many, so many people. Right then,
I can hear, I can hear the subscriptions going down.
But we do have kind of well for you. Okay. Yeah,
(11:49):
so like so like global numbers would take a lot
of compiling that I didn't want to do to be
super honest with you guys. But like, but like I
will say that perhaps especially throughout the former British Empire. Um,
but it seems like really everywhere, like the aforementioned everywhere, um,
meat pies are a nostalgic comfort food. If not a
health food. Um. So the balance between those two factors
(12:12):
has led to a rise in meat pie sales through
the first decade of the twenty century as like recession
was happening and stuff like that, and then something of
a dip in the in the second decade of the
twenty century during those those helican times when people didn't
feel like the world was on fire for just a minute. Uh,
everyone trying to eat a little healthier and stuff like that. Um.
(12:35):
But yeah, as as a planet, we are still eating
just a lot of meat pies. Um. Even some of
some of the movements um in some wealthier populations to
move away from meat have been balanced out by some
of the up and coming populations moving towards meat. So yeah, yeah,
And this episode we're going to do more of an overview.
(12:57):
But as we said, there are so many different oh gosh,
and we could do a full history on pretty much
all of these exactly what a fun mini series that
would be. Oh yeah, perhaps one day. But let's talk
about that revenge meat pie. Okay, So this is glorious.
This is one of my very favorite things. Yes, I'm
(13:18):
so glad you came up with this. Um So yeah,
There have been so many cases of meat pies used
for revenge in our pop culture, usually via a person
chopped up and then cooked into a pie and then
fed to an unsuspecting target for revenge. Usually it's somebody
that the person who is eating the pie knew and
cared about, but not always, not always. Sometimes it's just chaos.
(13:41):
It's absolute chaos and the revenge meat pie world. One
of the most famous examples comes from Shakespeare's Titus Andronicus.
For part of his revenge, Titus kills the two men
and bakes them into a meat pie, which he serves
to their mother before killing her too. Um yeah, yeah
to two two of the kind of villains of the piece.
You could argue, and I'm not going to get into
Shakespeare with you all that hard, but I will say
(14:03):
that it's one of those reveal lines because part of
the fun, part of the quote unquote fun, I'm sorry,
I'm so weird, And part of the fun of these
revenge pies is that there's always the moment when they
realize there's there's usually this moment where like someone is like,
oh man, where's this person, and someone else is like,
you're eating them right now? Lawls um, and then they
(14:25):
realize they see something. Yeah oh yeah yeah, And that
moment in Titus Andronicus is is in rhyme because of
course it is. Uh why there they are both baked
in that pie, whereof thy mother daintily hath fed, eating
the flesh that she herself half bread. Yeah, super gross. Also,
(14:46):
I saw the movie when I was probably really too
young to see that movie made eleven. Oh no, oh no,
that's an inappropriate time to see that film. I have
not returned to it because I remember being so disturbed
by this and then the guy who got buried up
to a shoulder, it was just his head. It's going
to be left there. That did I That really freaked
me out. Of course it did. Welcome. I was like,
I'm like ten years older than you, and I was
freaked out when I saw that, so uh huh yeah. Um.
(15:10):
I will also say that there that the the excellent
Vincent Price film Theater of Blood. Um. If you're not
familiar Theater of Blood, it's about all of these murders
based on theatrical stuff. And so there's there's a scene
in that that rifts on this tightest smeatpie thing. Okay,
it's it is so everyone go out, anyone who's like
(15:33):
a little nerd theater nerd, go out and watch it
right now. Price is beautiful after this is done. But
in the meantime, back to that Sweeney Todd thing. Yes, um, so,
for those not familiar, he was a barber from Fleet Street.
Fictional fictional yes, yes, although well I did read some
(15:53):
articles about it. Is he real? Who was he based?
But anyway, and he gave of his partner in crime,
after who you would kill victims, you'd give them to
his partners in crime, Mrs Lovett, who would bake them
into pies sometimes called the worst pies in London. Well,
they were the worst pies in London before she started
putting humans in them. And then they were so delicious
(16:14):
she started selling out all the time. Interesting, yeah, upsetting,
m m m m m m m m m. And
then Game of Thrones gave us one of our most
recent examples of a revenge me pie. No spoilers, it
exists in there, in there somewhere, um and yeah. I
suspect that these latter examples were inspired by the first
(16:36):
by Titus, which was itself inspired by all of these
Greek revenge myths like the Thyestean banquet, in which thiasts
has served his own sons, and the myth of Procne
who serves her husband their son, and maybe specifically where
Shakespeare got his idea for Titus, and the slightly more
historical tale of harpagus Um a general who has served
(16:59):
his own son um, or other Greek myths about eating
and serving your children from a Cronus to Tantalus to
like cayene Um. Although none of these are done in pies. Sure, um,
interesting yeah or not? Not? To my personal knowledge, I've
never seen a translation be like it was pie format, right,
and then that can be kind of tricky. But I've
(17:19):
never really considered other forms of revenge pies or not
revenge eating of your children. Oh there's that South Park
episode Scott something Must Die. Uh it's chili. Yeah, alright,
Cartman's are like made to eat your parents. Well, now
I have this concern that perhaps I shouldn't but no, no,
(17:43):
I mean it is. It is a whole trope. It
is a whole popular enough trope that it has its
own category in TV tropes, among many other cannibalism tropes,
um called familial surprise cannibalism. That's one of my favorite things.
I'm really surprise cannibalism like thanks humanity, Like, yeah, at
(18:06):
least we all agree that it's monstrous, if in an
entertaining way. Well, and of course, um, not not revenge wise,
but just baking people into pies wise. Um. There is
an episode of Hannibal that features a human kidney pie.
The crust on it is even stamped with like the
design from the face masks that are used on criminals
(18:26):
in that franchise. It's really cute. I I know that.
I've seen it, um and was always slightly disturbed by
how delicious everything looked at that show. Oh yeah, I
think that's part of the p Yeah, I think that's
what they were going for. Well, well done, success. I've
really only interacted with that. I've never watched it. I've
really only interacted with it through food blogs, recreating and
(18:50):
a pulse meals with hypothetically non human ingredients. Again, humans
love it, all right, let's take a hard sure, sure,
and let's talk about humble pie. Okay, yeah, the phrase.
So we were all probably familiar with this phrase eating
humble pie. All right, So I was curious where this
(19:11):
came from and I looked, I looked it up. And
so removing the liver, heart and trails and other organs
from a deer and cooking them used to be a
common practice. And those innerds were called numbles with an inn. Okay, yes,
And this came from the old French nombles, which came
from the Latin lumbulus, meaning a little loin. The word
(19:33):
for loin was lumbus. This is also where we get
the word lumbar from. Yeah. But anyway, the cheap inners
were more often eaten by the poor. Eventually the in
was dropped to humble pie. And you can see with accents. Yeah, yeah, humbulpie. Sure, yeah,
humble pie, totally yeah. But essentially it was it's deer
(19:54):
was a popular one. But any kind of cheap inners
that if you could afford not to, you wouldn't eat
when to the pie, So eating humble pie, humble pie,
there you go. So when it comes to two pies
here in the United States, I would say we most
of us think of sweet pies first. Yes, and that's
(20:15):
not the case in a lot of other places in
the world, but here sweet pies. But that was not
always true oh no, for a lot of history, it
certainly was not. And we will get into that after
we get back from a quick break for a word
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
(20:39):
thank you. So pies have a long history, yes, The
first records of pie go all the way back to
six thousand BC and ancient Egypt. The time they were
called galletts, and they were typically made with oats, rye, barley,
and wheat and a honey filling. To cook them, people
(21:01):
use hot coals are rocks heated by hot coals for
like early method of baking, if we skip ahead to
baker started adding things like nuts and fruits to the filling.
Bread dough frequently acted as the crust. One of the
ways we know about this is through drawings discovered in
the tomb of Ramsey's the second that is delightful. You know,
(21:25):
I want to appie depiction on my tombstone if I
ever have. I don't know what are those called mausoleums? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I would, Oh yeah yeah. We would get you some
real good, real high quality higher glyphs. All all the
pineapples and all the pies. I love it. I love it.
In the future, they will be like, what s about
(21:47):
It's clear, it's right there on the wall, pineapples. That's
all you need to know about me. The ancient Greeks
are believed to have come up with the pie pastry,
a paste made out of flower and water, as opposed
to at or bread crust. Um. This was then commonly
filled with meat. Ancient Romans adopted this practice, probably filling
their early pies with all kinds of meats, including oysters, muscles,
(22:11):
and lamp prey's. Kato the Elder included one of his
times most popular pie recipes um so this was around
one BC. The work he did around agriculture had a
recipe for it for placentas, which was a pie, yes,
and they These pies were sometimes used as offerings for gods.
(22:33):
They were sort of cheesecake like, baked in a pastry.
As pies spread, people adapted recipes to fit what they
had access to in their region. Early pie crust served
far more as a cooking and storage container and serving
implement rather than food. Yes. In fact, the pastry part
(22:58):
was often so tough, probably inedible, essentially inedible, yeah, essentially inedible.
The crust had to be really thick to survive long
baking times. For centuries, pretty much anything baked was a
pie because the crust was the only container that we had. Yeah,
I mean, pyrex had not been invented yet, and the
crust would keep the heat and the steam and the
(23:19):
juices of the product inside exactly. Perhaps because of this,
the English called early pies their coffins, which then meant
boxer basket. I guess it's still kind of does, even
though it's more specific. It's a specific type now. Yes,
many of the first pies were savory, with tall, straight
crust sealed at the top and bottom. A pie without
(23:40):
a pastry over the top was called a trap. Just
want to throw that in there like that. Tough crust
soaked with juices were sometimes given to the poor. Are
two servants. Legend puts northern Chinese meat pies to least
at least the ninth century ce Um. There's a there's
a tale of an emperor disguising himself as a commoner
to go outside the alice and uh and being blown
(24:01):
away by the beef pastries that he found out there.
Um uh. Though these are linked to a savory pancakes
in Chinese cuisine, which go thousands of years further back,
so mysteries history. Sometimes meanwhile, by that same ninth or
tenth century see Persian and other Middle Eastern literature mentioned
these savory handheld triangular pastries, like the sampsa um, which
(24:26):
is probably the root of those similar triangular things that
we mentioned earlier. Um. These may have been filled with
minced meats, nuts, and dried fruit at fancy tables. Both
sweet and savory. Sumpsuck were mentioned in a thirteenth century
cookbook with the with the meaty one flavored with a
coriander and cumin and pepper, cinnamon, mint and ground almonds um.
(24:46):
Samosa were recorded um at Indian royal courts as early
as the fourteenth century, reportedly filled with stuff like mince meat, peas, pistachios,
and almonds um or with a meat, ghee and onion um.
But lower classes we're eating these types of savory pies
as well, or probably a little bit less fancy, probably
(25:06):
fewer maybe fewer spices, you know, whatever was on hand um.
But reportedly, like like merchants traveling the Silk Road carried
these snacks and that's how they became a popular street
food across the Middle East and South Asia. Well, they
are convenient in that way because they do come in
their own container. Exactly makes sense to me. During the
(25:26):
thirteenth century, we see the first mentions of mince pies
as European crusaders coming back from the Middle East with
recipes involving spices, meats, and fruits arrived and they became
associated with religious meals. Okay, okay. Mince Pies were subsequently
banned during the seventeenth century under Oliver Cromwell's rule because
(25:47):
as a Puritan a pie it was too indulgent for Cromwell. Guy,
that guy. Because of this, people were eating pie and
secret for sixteen years. Wow, and this is of those things.
When I read, I thought, surely that that's apocryphal or
that's just a fun story. Seems to be true. It
(26:09):
seems to me it's like no pie, okay, I'm telling you.
According to the Dictionary, the word pie was used to
refer to the food all the way back to one
Canterbury Tales mentions pie for eating p y e yes.
During medieval times in Europe, pie crust was still much
(26:32):
much deffer, often requiring a spoon or some other implement
to crack it open. These crust could be baked first
and would form sort of pie in the pot that like,
this is where we get the turn pot pie. Okay, Yeah,
sweet pies were called tarts, with recorded recipes dating back
to the hundreds. Since sugar was so expensive during the time,
(26:53):
a lot of these tarts didn't have sugar unless you're
in the upper class. Yeah. And I'm pretty sure that
tart is still British English for a sweet pie, and
pie generally means a savory pie, though there does also
seem to be a distinction between tart being open topped
and a pie being closed up as well. I ran
into that a lot when I was doing my preliminary research. Yes, okay,
(27:18):
we have to talk about animated pies. Animated pies like
like in like like like Beauty and the Beast or something. No,
I was like, is there an animated pie? I don't
think there is. I was stretching. Yes, okay. These were
a popular form of entertainment at European banquets during the Okay,
(27:40):
so you might have heard of them through this nursery
rhyme sing a song of sixpence four and twenty blackbirds
baked in a pie. When the pie was opened, the
birds began to sing. Wasn't that a dainty dish to
set before the king? Or maybe you're in or some
birds flying out of Geoffreeze pie if you watched Game
of Thrones. So yeah, these were pies that had live
(28:02):
animals and sometimes humans and sometimes other things um inside them,
anything from birds or rabbits to turtles to frogs ready
to emerge when the crust was cut. I love the
frogs thing. I did too. I just think it would
be chaos, right, You're like frogs hopping everywhere? Are birds
flying out and attacking people? I don't know. I don't
(28:25):
think they probably wouldn't attack people. I mean, I don't
know the hearts of birds, that's true, But you are
suspicious of the hearts of birds. I am. We've discussed
at length. For some reason, Producer Andrew still likes me
to spite that. Well. I'm glad that you two were
able to work it out. Work it out, um. So,
just to be clear, the animals and or people were
(28:48):
not baked into the pie. No, Yes, they were added
after the crust had been cooked, either via a hole
in the bottom or by lifting the top and then
replacing it back. Yeah right. French King Charles the Fifth
love to throw banquets with all sorts of entertainment when
he ranged during the Threds, and food was no exception.
(29:10):
His chefs created what they called subtlety or subtlety. I
didn't look into it, but I have a real hope
that this is where the word subtlety comes from. I
suspect yes. And these were ornamentally disguised foods, frequently not
meant to be eaten. Um. Also, as time went on,
subtlety could refer to all kinds of entertainment, not just food. Okay,
to add further confusion, but anyway. One famous example came
(29:31):
from the chef of the Duke of Burgundy when he
made a pie big enough to house twenty eight musicians
that played as the pie was opened, plus a quote
captive girl meant to symbolize how the church was captive
in the Middle East. Twenty eight musicians inside a pie
(29:52):
plus a plus a lady plus a lady. That's a lotus.
There was a big pie in sixteen t you six
At a banquet for King Charles the First and Queen
Henrietta Maria, they were served a pie with a very
small child dressed in armor inside, and he rose up
as the pie was opened and bowed to the queen.
(30:14):
His name was Jeffrey Hudson, though after this he was
dubbed Lord Minimus. He served her for almost two decades,
was twice kidnapped by pirates and jailed after a duel.
And why is this not a movie or a show
on HBO? Oh gosh, the The Adventures of Lord Minimus.
I want it. I think it will happen to get
(30:35):
a story right. It's too good. A book out of
Italy about throwing baquets had this recommendation, Oh god, here
we go. You got this at this? Are you okay? Okay?
Believe in you? Okay, okay? To make pie that the
birds may be alive in them and fly out when
(30:55):
it is cut up. Make the coffin of a great
pie or pastry in the bottom thereof make a hole
as big as your fist, or bigger if you will,
let the size of the coffin be somewhat higher than
ordinary pies, which done, put it full of flour and
bake it, and being baked, open the hole in the
bottom and take out the flower. Then having a pie
of the bigness of the hole in the bottom of
the coffin. Afore said, you shall put it into the coffin,
(31:19):
with all put into the said coffin round about the
afour said pie, as many small live birds as the
empty coffin will hold besides the pie. And this is
to be at such time as you send the pie
to the table, And said before the guest we're uncovering
are cutting up the lid of the great pie, all
the birds will fly out, which is to delight and
(31:41):
pleasure shoe to the company. And because they shall not
be altogether mocked, you shall cut open the small pie.
And in this sort you may make many others. And
like you may do with the tart. That's a recipe
you wouldn't really see so much these days. That's the
first one of those that I've ever read me do,
(32:02):
And it was quite fun. Oh gosh, I'm just I'm
just thinking about just just baseline sanitation issues of having
a pie that you're going to eat and a whole
bunch of birds, Yes, in the same unit of space.
It is true that that, But you know, at a
certain point, have fun with it, right, enjoy yourself. I
(32:24):
suppose I mean, we still do those cakes where ladies
pop out. I don't think I think it's a is
it not a real case? I think it's like cardboard
and plastic. Wow, I've been living a lot this whole time.
I didn't not I could be wrong. I'm not sure.
Maybe I'll have to do an episode on it. Maybe.
But in the meantime, yes. Uh. Meanwhile, during all of
(32:46):
this time, um like since like the eighth century, Muslims
had been living in and sometimes ruling in parts of
what's now the Iberian Peninsula, and they brought with them
meat pies, possibly the same ones that inspire its mosa um.
Those went on to inspire and panadas. By the fifteen twenties,
a Catalan cookbook mentions seafood and panatas. Also during the
(33:09):
sixteenth century, pastry ingredients started uppearing in recipes. This is
probably because this is when cookbooks started being made not
only for professional chefs, yeah, or like not quite like
professional chefs like we think of them today, because that
wasn't a thing yet outside of rural courts, um but
but but rather like up until this point, cookbooks would
have been ways for royal courts to share information and
(33:33):
like show off to each other. Um. But after the
printing press was invented in the fourteen hundreds, books slowly
became available to like, not just the upper upper class,
but also like the regular upper class. Yeah. Um so
these early printed cookbooks around the sixteenth century um uh
and and like books of household management were for the
(33:53):
heads of estates and for their staff. Um and so
therefore recipes got a little bit more practical to actually
share something useful rather than just being likely look at
what I did, I am better than you. Records show
that the English and Irish were making shepherd's pie and
cottage pie by the seventeenth century. Lamb and vegetable filling
(34:15):
for shepherd's pie Shepherd's ten lamb makes sense, beef and
vegetables for cottage pie, and both topped with potatoes. So
this means I should have been making cottage pie for
my Harry Potter parties because you were using ground beef. Well, yes,
I should have been using ground beef because you know
(34:35):
it's it. It's based in I guess it's based in Scotland,
so I should check out what's going on there. I
suspect both Honestly, both Yeah, at this point, definitely. Um,
these were frugal pies, ways to use up leftovers and
cheap available ingredients. Again, that's a recurring theme. Cottage is
thought to refer to this and that the lower class
(34:56):
who were probably making and eating that pie frequently lived
in cottages. As European colonists arrived in North America, they
brought with them their favorite pie recipes and then adapted
those recipes to what was available in the New World.
Pie was often present at every meal for early American pioneers,
and since food is such a huge part of any
(35:17):
kind of celebration, pies became involved in all kinds of
contests and celebrations like fairs, are picnics, the Blue Ribbon
pie um. The move westward of people gave way to
the development of more regional pies as well. In the
sixteen hundred settlers in Quebec eight tortiller as a part
(35:38):
of their post Christmas Eve mass celebrations. I've seen a
lot of things about how pies were connected to holidays
in these times, for sure. From Martha's Historic Cookbook, one
of George Washington's favorite pies was filled with sweetbreads, which
are neither sweet nor bread um. And you can see
our episode therefore named um uh about the ingredient from
(35:59):
June of when He's seventeen for more on that. Yes,
also a video we did, Oh we did. That was
a delicious video. It was very very good and it
has one of the most um I think, touching visuals
of people sharing, like laughing and sharing times over food
because Tyler, who was our video editor producer at the time,
(36:23):
he we didn't know it, but he left the camera
running as we ate. We shared this food together, sweetbreads,
and we were just like laughing and having a good
time and eating, clearly enjoying ourselves, and he sped it up.
And I don't know, every time I watch it, I
get a little touched, like I have food. Yes, yes,
So you can find that online. It is available. In
(36:44):
the eighteen hundreds, Germany's Emperor William the First was treated
to his favorite pie when visiting England's Queen Victoria. A
pie with here we go, an entire turkey, stuffed with
an entire chicken, stuffed with an entire pheasant, stuffed with
an hire woodcock. Oh now that is quite the pie.
That is a filling pie. That is that is a pie.
(37:07):
But okay, why is it that pies in America are
most often associated with dessert? Why is it Annie? Why
is it Well, when sugar became more affordable, sweet pies
became more than norm in the United States. According to
Carl Degler in Out of Our Past The Forces that
shaped Modern America, quote, pie in England to this day
(37:27):
means a meat pie, but in the colonies that was
a pope pie. Pie was reserved for the fruit pastry.
And I believe he goes on to say, or somebody
else in this kind of argument about what how did
this happen in the US said it was just kind
of us being spiteful too, Like we're gonna call this
thing pie, We're gonna call your meat pie pie, doing
(37:49):
our own thing. Yeah, that's the very like America going
through there, Like I mean, not just teenager phase but right.
But it was a very right, whole rebellion. Yes, yes,
and we've talked about that before as well with cookies. Right,
So maybe it's a dessert type we were we got
sugar here, um, but that doesn't mean that savory prize
(38:14):
weren't around. Sure in the United States. Going back to Amelia,
Simmons is American cookery. The ratio of sweet to savory
recipes in that for pies is about even. But as
sugar plantations proliferated across the southern United States and and
elsewhere nearby, sweet pies were super exciting. I was trying
to really imagine this other day. Imagine you had never
(38:37):
really had access to that level of sweetness. It had
kind of been out of your reach, and then this
whole world opens up to you, and of course you'd
be like, oh, we could put we could put sugar
in there, we can sugar in there, Like why not,
let's do it. Yeah, I get it. I totally, I
totally see drunk on sugar power, on sugar power. When
Europeans settled New Zealand in the nineteenth century, they fundamentally
(38:59):
transfer armed the food culture there, and one of the
first recorded instances of a meat pie in that country
dates back to eighteen sixty three, most likely a mutton pie. Yeah.
Australia and New Zealand both very big meat pie cultures,
very much. I believe someone wrote in called it like
it's an icon. It's an icon. Yeah. During probition America,
(39:19):
the alcohol content of canned mince pie filling shot up
by fourteen percent. Indeed. Um In ninety seven, speaking of
Australian meat pie icons um, the brand four and twenty debut. Yes,
it's named after the four and twenty Blackbirds poem. Um. Today,
four and twenty is just a mainstay of Australian football
(39:42):
stadiums and convenience stores. They're everywhere. Yeah um. In nineteen
fifty one, the first frozen meat pie hit the supermarkets,
a Swanson's Chicken pot pie. Yes, I've had a many
of those. Oh, yes, me too. In nineteen seven, a
meat pie based fast food chain in New Zealand, Georgie Pie,
opened the doors of its first stores. It closed in
(40:06):
the nineteen nineties, but in two thousand thirteen McDonald's added
Georgie Pies to its menu. Yeah, I'm not sure if
it's still on it if anyone right in and firm.
In two thousand three, Louisiana legislature named Nakatush meat pie
as the official meat pie. And I've actually had these, yeah,
(40:27):
for those who haven't, It's like an empanada filled with
spiced meat. And the legend of Nakatush meat pies nineteenth
century vendors used to shout hot to meat pies. Historians
put four theories that they originate from both French and
Spanish settlers. Probably is a coming together of a lot
of things, as is with many things in Louisiana food culture. Yeah. Absolutely,
(40:52):
So that's about what we have to say on meat pies.
Although we could have kept going and going, oh my gosh, yeah,
this is one that I had to really hold myself
back on. Um, And so to avoid just all of
the yeah, we'll have to do individual episodes on many,
many many things, yes, many many delicious things. Like I was,
I was doing research for this last night as the
(41:14):
hour was growing late, and I was and I was
eating dinner, and I was like, oh no, so I
as I have said, I was recently in Montreal, and um,
it was very cold up there, quite cold. And somebody
in the group because I went for a puppetry festival
(41:34):
and we were having a group dinner and somebody got
shepherd's pie and I freaked out. And he didn't know me,
like we knew each other, but not that well. And
then all of a sudden, I was like, oh my god,
can I take a picture? And he was like Okay,
let's step back. It's going on here, and said, oh
I want a food buck. Okay, I gokay, just an
(41:54):
episode on me pies. Oh that's delightful. Yeah yeah, he
was very patient. I'll probably be posting that picture soon. Yeah.
Cool fun times. Oh yeah, I need to I have
I have some little like like frozen samosas and my
freezer that I somehow did not eat all of last night.
(42:14):
But I'm coming for you samosa's. Your time is limited.
I've never made a meat pie at home. I pie
crest again, like just kind of pisces me off. So h,
but I think I'm thinking I'm gonna have to make one. Absolutely, Um,
(42:35):
I feel like I don't I think I might cheat
or not technically make a shepherd's pie because I don't
think I do the bottom crust. Oh you're making a casserole.
That's different. And I've been lying to myself and my
friends all this time. My hairy potter thing parties are inaccurate.
(42:56):
I am brought shame to my house of Griffin or yeah,
five points from Griffin door, dude, says the huffle puff
who's buy the kitchens and knows these things. I couldn't
afford to lose the point. Griffin Door always wins. Anyway,
It's okay always. I know there's like that one time,
(43:20):
and I still think about that one time. I will
update my if I ever have a Harry Potter theme
party again, which seems really likely, I'll update the menu. Okay, okay, good,
I'm glad I could meet your standards. Maybe we should.
We can join up and you can make a meat
by and I can make a meat by, and then
(43:40):
we'll mark off two things on our list. Oh. Perfect, Yeah,
and then everyone gets to eat more meat pie. I
love it. Perfect, let's do it. Okay. In the meanwhile,
we um we do have some listener mail. But first
we've got another quick break for a word from our sponsor.
(44:05):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with it feels like a very like I
don't know something. In Lord of the Rings you need
a lot of meat pies. For some reason, I associate
gruffness with Lord of the Rings. Maybe I just GIMBLI
really made an impact of h Yeah, I gotta explain
my process, no I oh gosh, Chelsea wrote, First, I
(44:32):
want to thank you both for your wonderful podcast. Oh
thank you. I have been listening since day one and
have learned so much. Today I listened to your Macadamia
Net episode and I wanted to share a brief story
related to macadamia nuts and dogs to save you unnecessary panic.
This story ends happily, so don't worry. Oh gosh, I worried. Yes,
I'm so good you had that in there. About ten
(44:54):
years ago, my parents went on vacation to Hawaii. While
they were there, my mom purchased about a dozen boxes
of Mauna Loa chocolate covered mcadamia nuts to bring home
as gifts for friends and family. Each box of a
dozen chocolate custers was individually shrink wrapped and taped shut.
When she got home, she placed the boxes in a
shopping bag and left them in our garage so that
(45:14):
they would stay cool and not melt cool. It takes sense, definitely.
Later that day, we all went out to dinner, and
we returned. We were shocked and horrified to see a
trail of chocolate boxes littering the floor of the garage
all the way to the dog door, and continuing on
into that. Each box had been torn apart and chewed.
(45:34):
Two pieces, enraged that her precious gifts had been so
heartlessly devoured by our dog. I'm bombarded into the house
and shouted for our schnauser, Coda to come. Not surprisingly,
Coda was keeping a low profile, or so we thought.
We found him a moment later, lying on the floor
in the family room, desperately trying to run to us,
but unable to stand. From what we could tell, his
(45:55):
front legs were working, but his hind legs were a mobile.
Sure enough, the side of my dad sent him into
joyful panic, and he proceeded to drag himself across the
floor like a seal to get to him. We all
freaked out and rushed into the animal hospital to see
what was wrong. Turns out Schnauzers are particularly susceptible to
macadamia nut poisoning. Fortunately, the vet told us that the
paralyzing effects were only temporary and would go away within
(46:18):
a few days. Once it became clear that Coda would
be okay, everyone's mood shifted from fear and anxiety to
smug satisfaction that greedy dog had gotten the karma you
so richly deserved. None of us had gotten to try
the magical macadamia nutclusters, and now we never would. Of course,
it didn't take along for his pitiful seal crawl and
(46:39):
sad face to have us all spoiling him for the
next few days. But I don't think my mom ever
forgave him for what he did. I hope you find
this story as entertaining as our family does. We still
laugh about it, and it's become a fond memory and
a valuable lesson for all of us. Yes, yeah, those
are some sour grapes. I like it. Yeah, I love
(47:01):
I have one story that's close to this. Well, no,
I probably have more, but one that comes immediately to
mind right eight, an entire sixty four ounce Hershey's bar
to myself during Constantine the movie. Oh gosh. Within ten
minutes of that movie being over, my friends have been
making fun of me, like you shouldn't do that, and
I was like, ha ha, I was projectile, just stocolate.
(47:24):
It lasted for so long, like my friends eventually said, look,
I gotta go home feel better. Wow, So that was
pretty pretty quick. Just desserts. Oh no, uh, well, I'm
sorry that that happened to you, and I'm glad that
an important lesson was learned that day, sim I learned.
(47:46):
I still over eat quite often, but maybe not sixty
four ounces of chocolate. No, I don't do that anymore.
Good for you, Yes, thank you. Rose wrote it is
my civic duty to bring to light a very important topic,
parogies versus paroshky's. Not knowing the difference can have real
world consequences. It can cost you your livelihood. I kid
you not. I know because it happened to me. In
(48:08):
your recent episode on Parogue's, they were described as parogy
are filled dumplings of Central and Eastern European origin, made
by wrapping unleavened dough around a savory or sweet filling,
and cooking and boiling water or pan frying. Personally, for
the longest time, I was not fond of paroges. I'm
not a huge fan of the mashed potato filling, but
I'm a huge fan of paros keys. From Wikipedia, Posky
(48:31):
are Russian and Ukrainian baked or fried, yeast leavened, boat
shaped buns with a variety of fillings. Paroshky are a
popular street food and comfort food in far Eastern Europe.
In Seattle, we have both a small Polish community and
Ukrainian Russian community, meaning we have both perogus and paroskey shops,
mostly parosh Key and even one of the most famous
(48:51):
establishments in Pike Place Market Paroshky. Paroshky will have long
lines wrapped around the corner to get one of their
baked treats as cinnamon spice fills the air from their
apple Peroshki with a variety of fillings both sweet and savory,
all wrapped in a fluffy, yeasted dough and baked to
golden perfection. Paroshky can't be beat. Well, if you think
those are fighting words, you're not wrong. Many years ago,
(49:14):
I applied to a coveted work position in Japan. After
going through several rounds of interviews, testing, and even flying
to l A for the last interview stage, I thought
I had a great chance at getting the position. The
last interview was a group interview, and for some stupid reason,
I brought up my love of Paroshky's. Out of nowhere,
one of the other interviewees pops up and corrects me
(49:34):
and says, no, you mean parogus a guest, and a
little startled, I said, no, paroshkeys, a baked, delicious treat
with different fillings from Russia. The second interview, he chimes in, no,
that's a perogue and they're boiled, not baked, and they're Polish.
Now I was just mad. First off, do not tell
(49:54):
me there's no such thing as a paroshky, and second,
don't fight with me about it during a job interview.
After several back and forth, the other interviewees decided I
made up paroshki because I was too embarrassed to admit
I was wrong. Needless to say, I did not get
the job, and those two yets is did. So. Yes, people,
they are a thing. Wow, oh my gosh. Yeah, don't
(50:20):
somebody in a job. And now this is also why
I strongly disapprove of group interviews. Yeah, yeah, I mean honestly,
like I would say, Rose that you probably actually like
sort of lucked out, because any company that puts you
through that does not have your best interests at heart. Yeah.
Then they don't even know about Yeah, and they certainly
(50:43):
didn't learn their lesson delicious paroshki. No, they didn't. Lessons,
very important lessons. Yes, I do want to add another
thing from Montreal. I met someone from Alberta, the giant parogi.
Yeah yeah, and she had pictures on her phone and
she showed me the giant egg. It's huge and it
(51:04):
moves cool. I know, alright, but she was telling me
all about all the Parogue options she's from, and I
felt such jealousy. Yeah, we'll just have to go two bad,
said twist our arm. Well, thanks to both of them
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is hello at savor pod dot com.
(51:27):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod uh and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. Thank you as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(51:47):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
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