September 12, 2020 • 35 mins
This spicy-savory-salty-funky-sweet sauce is the product of thousands of years of fermentation tradition. Anney and Lauren dip into the science and history of gochujang.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heeart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obam. And today
we're talking about GoChi jong because we are MASSI Case
and we already gave ourselves mackearol in a French episode,
and now we're going to tackle Korean. Yeah, why not?
(00:28):
I can think of some reasons, but they won't stop us,
because gochu jong is amazing and worth talking about, oh
so worth talking about. And this was inspired by a
conversation that we had after we wrapped our last recording,
right between us and super producer Andrew, who was had
just eaten what sounded like a fantastic sandwich, yeah, which
(00:51):
had gochu jong on it. Uh. And I actually had
never heard of gochu jong until I think a year ago.
My co host Ritt Sminthy Samantha. She first was very angry, uh,
and then enthusiastically introduced me to it uses it in everything. Um.
And I know I've had it before. I'm confident i've
(01:12):
had it before. I just didn't know what it was.
And actually today I made my uh once in every
two to three weeks grocery store trip and I and
then I accidentally put a like a ton of it
my salad. And you know what I've learned is it's
really strong by itself, but like when I mixed it up,
it was pretty good. Yeah, it really like mellowed out.
(01:36):
It does it? Does? It melts with other flavors really well.
I and I was saying during that conversation, Um, you know,
I was like, heck, yeah, Andrew, you put gochu jong
on your sandwich because gochu jong goes on everything. Um.
If I am making pretty much anything savory, I'm just like,
and here's the part where I put in a spoonful
of gocha jong because why not? Um, definitely all of
(01:57):
my marinades and stuff, get some gochu jong of salad dressings.
Oh yeah, yeah, all this stuff. Um I uh yeah.
I started gaining exposure to Korean cuisine maybe about eight
or ten years ago. Imagine that scene in Nightmare Before
Christmas where like Jack Skellington is like prancing through Christmas
Town but it's like me and An h Mart and
(02:20):
that that was that was about how it how it went.
Were you singing what's this as you? I mean, probably
I can see it. I can see yeah, only if
I don't know what most of this is, but I
want to eat it immediately. So many things to try yes, um, yeah,
and go to John was one of the first things
(02:42):
that I figured out was like completely necessary to my lifestyle. Yeah,
I'm excited. I'm excited to start cooking with it myself,
start using yes, m um and yeah you can uh
we We previously did an episode on kimchi that overlaps
this in terms of the chili pepper part just a
(03:03):
little bit. Um. Also, glutenous rice comes up in here,
and we have an episode on that as well. I
didn't look up when they happened, but I have so
much faith in y'all to google and figure it out.
I do too, I do too. But I suppose we
should get to our question. Oh yeah, I suppose go
to John. What is it? Well? Gu jung is a
(03:30):
type of chili sauce that's a that's so thick and
so finely blended that it's more like a paste. Um.
And it's made with a hot red chilies, rice, flour
sometimes other flowers, fermented soybeans and salt mixed with water
and then allowed to all ferment together. Um and and
it winds up in a paste form, either before or
after both It depends on how you're making it. But
(03:52):
at any rate, Um, other seasonings might be added to,
like a garlic or onion or sweeteners, but but that
the result is going to be this like deep crimson paste,
thicker than catch up, more like um, like fresh ground
peanut butter, or maybe like marmite vegemite kind of consistency. Um.
And it's it's savory and spicy and salty and a
(04:12):
little bit funky and sweet. And yeah, it can be used,
as we have been saying, as a seasoning during cooking,
or a condiment in composing dishes or just at the table. Um,
A little does tend to go a long way. It's
kind of powerful stuff. But yeah, as long as you
like spice, you can kind of just blend it in
as you please. Yes, yes, it was delightful. I think
(04:34):
the word I saw the most from from westernized American
outlets describing Gochu jong was complex. Yeah, it's kind of
got all the flavors in there at once, and I oh,
I love it. It's why compliments so many different things.
But okay, um, let's go a little bit deeper into
(04:54):
what this stuff is. So so the word gochu jong
is composed of gochu meaning chili pepper in Korean and
and young meaning a a saucer paste based in fermented soybeans.
And the traditional way of making any kind of young,
including Korean soy sauce, is to start by boiling soybeans
down for for hours like six hours, and then draining
(05:16):
them and forming them into blocks um like like toaster sized,
like pop up toaster sized blocks. Yeah, and these are
called and maju and they're they're wrapped in rice stocks
and then allowed to hang dry and ferment for at
least a couple of weeks, like ninety days. Is arranged
that I have seen, which means that we are talking
(05:37):
about bacteria. And I love being your hype woman in
this so excited for you every time. Thank you. I
love it too. I'm glad that I feel like it's
bringing us closer together every time. Yep, I think so.
(06:01):
Uh So. The two main microbes at play here are
Vasilis subtalists, which is this bacterium that's naturally found growing
on rice stocks, and Aspergillus urasi or as I. Yeah
that one. Sure, let's go with that um, which is
a domesticated strain of yeast that um also favors growing
on rice. But um has been domesticated and is used
(06:24):
for the fermentation of various starchy products from miso to
showed you and and show chew for thousands of years.
It's been around. Sometimes this is called kogi mold. And
so as these and other microbes UM grow on and
in that the made you that that block of cooked soybeans, UM,
those microbes digest some of those complex starches and and
(06:48):
other stuff and UH and poop sugars and flavors. So
when you're making a jung traditionally you take some of
these made you blocks and uh in place them in
like a big old clay jar or pot like two
feet tall, like a two thirds of a meter, and
toss in whatever else your ingredients are UM. In the
(07:10):
case of GoChi jong at chilies, rice flour um probably
glutinous rice flowers, it's a little bit sweeter, water, salt,
whatever other seasonings you like, and you just let that
vessel hang out for like three months to a year,
usually outdoors UM in a carefully chosen location, and during
that time, UM further microbes further break stuff down and
(07:30):
mitigate unpleasant flavors and create good flavors. This one paper
I found published in UM the journal Food Science and
Biotechnology back in found a total of seven genuses and
thirty one species of microorganisms in the GoChi jong that
they sampled, UM, seven homemade varieties and five commercial varieties,
including Yeah, just like all kinds of fungi and yeasts
(07:52):
in bacteria. That's so cool. Yeah, And of course, however,
that is probably not how the like millions of gallons
of gochu jong that are made commercially every year get created. Um.
There are all sorts of shortcuts you can take, like
just cultivating koji mold on the rice flakes and then
(08:13):
powdering that and mixing it in with the rice and
soybean flowers and your other ingredients. The fermentation process can
be really tightly controlled too, so that you can control
your final textures and flavors. Other grains can be used.
You might boost the flavor with like yeast extracts or
something like that. UM. Different flavor profiles and viscosities have
been developed for different markets. Uh, there's a there's a
(08:35):
whole paper from on the non Newtonian characteristics of gochu jong.
And cho gochu jong at different temperatures and it made
me so happy. That's excellent. I want to know so
much more about this. Basically, yeah, they were just saying like, well,
here's how it works. Go take this science and use
(08:57):
it to make different kinds of those things at show
go to jung being a related condiment that you make
using goti jung and vinegar. But I love it. Um.
I read an interview with a chef who teaches people
how to make their own gocha jong and they said
(09:17):
they described the clay pots and jars as living, breathing things.
Oh yeah, Oh, I read this beautiful article in sevir
about how jung are made, and yeah, the word for
where they kept these pots was like it involved the
(09:37):
description garden. It was like garden of pots and and
the whole thing. Like I felt like the dude in
charge and us would really get along. Like he was
just like exclaiming how excited he was about mold the
entire time, and uh, I loved it. It sounds it
sounds like a like like when you do it the
traditional way, it seems like a really um beautiful process
(10:01):
if you consider mold to be beautiful, which we often
do here at all. Mold some molds, many molds, many molds. Uh. Well,
speaking up, what about the nutrition, Well, um, it does
depend on how it's made, but generally UM, Gota doung
is one of those products that adds a lot of
(10:23):
flavor for a low caloric load. UM. So take that
as you will. UM. It can pack a lot of salt,
so watch out for that if that's something that you're
watching out for. And it has been long considered a
digestive stimulant and like a general warmer upper or or
pepper upper of of of people. UM. Some modern research
(10:45):
suggests that UM some compounds found in gocha jong may
help rats better process fats in their systems, leading to
better cholesterol levels UM. And some other research indicates that
UM other compounds are in there that may have antioxidant
and anticancer effects. And human as always, as always, Uh yeah,
(11:06):
the human body is complicated. More research needs to be
done before ingest. Don't ingest medicinal levels of gocci jong probably,
I mean, only eat it if you like it, and
then eat as much as you want, I guess, but
I suppose we'd have to get down to brass tacks
of what's a medicinal level. That's that's true. It's medicinal
(11:35):
in like the but like by the spoonful for me
in terms of my mood. Um. Oh yeah yeah, then
we have to separate like you know, mental health medicinal
and you know actual physiological medicinal. Several follow up questions,
but yes, uh, just always consult a professional, which we
(11:58):
are not. No, we're professional goofy food podcasters, right, a
medical professional. Consultant, medical professional four here ingesting medicinal levels
of anything. Yes, yes, um, okay, so we don't have
those numbers for you, but we do have some other
numbers we do. Okay. This first one is a little dated.
(12:22):
It's from but it's from an article from the Chili
Pepper Institute, and it's like a newsletter. And I read
the whole thing, even though only the first portion was
about go Jong because I was in love with it. Um.
But according to this newsletter, Red Pepper accounts for of
annual vegetable production and four point five of gross agricultural
(12:45):
product in South Korea, And it goes on to put
per capital consumption at two point five ks in that
country and the production value at eight hundred million dollars. Wow. Yeah,
and this Kim she also falls in there like a
lot of other things. But yeah, gives you an idea
of how important that pepper is. Go to Jong exports
(13:06):
from South Korea went up from s eighteen, valued at
thirty six point eight one million dollars, and most of
those exports went to the United States and the United Kingdom.
One Korean news agency found that of South Koreans make
sure to pack go to jong when they travel abroad,
(13:28):
especially if they're going to be gone for a while. Yeah,
And I couldn't really find any other numbers to back
that up, but I found a lot of anecdotal evidence,
So I definitely believe it is a thing. As someone
who brings peanut butter with me and I travel abroad,
I'm on the wavelength. I got you. Yeah, yeah, I
I did start packing um some of those little tiny
(13:50):
bottles of tabasco sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. You can never go
wrong with hot sauce, always right hot some hand. It's
useful for so many things, it is. It is indeed. Uh,
there is a go to Junk festival and the sun
Chung Traditional Paste Museum is located on Fermented Paste Road.
(14:18):
Oh that's in that's in South Korea. I love I
love everything about this. Yes, I want so badly, I
want so badly to go check out like how all
these things are made and look at that museum and
eat so much food. Um, maybe we can all trade.
I'll bring extra little bottles of American hot sauce. We
(14:39):
can all trade. I don't know, I like this idea,
but yeah, yeah, if if you if you think that
you've never had this before, it's a possibility that, like Annie,
you have but you were unaware. Um. I forgot to
say in the wood is it section? Um that uh
that it is one of the traditional accompaniments, Um in
a in a bowl of bibom bab. So if you've
(15:01):
had that dish, which is a fairly common Crean dish
here in the United States, it's that that it's the
red stuff that's on there. Yes, so good, so good.
You mix it in. It makes everything kind of meld together.
It adds this ah, so nice. Yes, this was a
very hungry episode, y'all. Yeah for sure. Um, luckily we
(15:24):
both have some so we can finish. Yes, But before
we go do that, um, we are going to get
into some history. But before we go do that. We
are going to get into a quick break for a
word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you, Spencer, Yes,
(15:50):
thank you. So Like we've talked about several episodes, certainly
every episode that's ever mentioned fermentation uh as a as
a main thing involved in the food we're talking about,
including the closely related kim chi. Fermitted foods have been around,
oh as a way to preserve foods for pretty much
(16:14):
people have been eating. Yes, yes, because it's a great way.
It's a great way to take something that is healthy
and nice when it's fresh and make sure that you
can eat it later when fresh foods may not be available. Yes,
Um and Jong themselves have been around for thousands of years. Uh.
(16:36):
One thing I read that I wasn't able to find
anywhere in English, So if anyone knows that this is true,
is that there are three main gngs and Goja Jong
was the last one introduced. Yes, yes, the three, and
I don't have the names of them right in front
of me, so I'm I'm not sure what they are
off the top of my head, but yeah, it's basically
um soy sauce, um soy paste, and then chili so
(17:02):
I paste gochu jong. Yes, yes, just yes, um so
this was something people would make, individual households would make
on their own and in these in these clay pots,
um gochu jongs recorded history specifically goes back to either
the sixteenth or seventeenth century, made with red chilies, which
most likely arrived with European explorers towards the end of
(17:22):
the fifteen hundreds, and this early gochu chong was usually
composed of major powder, rice flour or gluteness, rice flower,
and red pepper flower. Although one of the first believed
mentions of gochu jong's predecessor is from a ninth century
Chinese document detailing the perceived health benefits of eating a
Korean pepper paste. As translated, this believed to have gender
(17:44):
and green onion in it, and some sources claim that
something similar to gochu chong was historically used medicinally for
all sorts of things, particularly ailments of the stomach. So
many yeah, I read that other spicy foods like like
maybe black pepper corns could have been used in place
of chili peppers before the arrival of chili peppers from
(18:05):
the America's through whichever route they arrived through. Um. I
think possibly Japanese colonization. Um. But but it's it's hard
to track down. It's one of those things that is
historically difficult for someone reading only in English too to
truly ascertain. Yes. Um. Whatever the case, it didn't take
(18:28):
long for the sauce gocho John to spread in Korea
and for the use of it to diversify. One of
the more popular varieties sun Chon gochu Jong, which, as
we mentioned at the top, you might be able to
tell it was popular variety because that's where the museum is,
that's where the festival is, was well loved by kings
during the chose Son dynasty. In fact, some of the
(18:50):
very first recorded recipes were specifically meant to be made
as gifts for the king. Yeah. And one of the
very first recorded recipes for go to John comes from
the seventeen twenties, recorded by a royal physician, and physicians
claimed gochu Jong save the King's life in Yeah Powerful Stuff.
(19:15):
The first recorded written steps on the process of guchi
jong production in Hungle the Korean language, appeared in eighteen
oh six. Later, a SPEs sometimes called for adding meats
are jujube for sweetness Uh jiujub being a kind of date. Yes,
and I'm very, very embarrassed to say, I'm so glad
I looked this up before because I was going to
(19:38):
pronounce it like the candy juju. Yeah. Yeah, that would
have been embarrassing. That would have been my guests as well. Yes,
disaster averted this one time at this once for nunciation
and then people are right in No, I tried, I
(19:58):
looked it up, um, but yeah was added for sweetness.
Beginning in the eighteenth century, references to go to John
started popping up everywhere in Korea, from imperial documents to
books to poetry and uh. It was essentially a staple
by the nineteenth century in that country. Korean documents from
the nineteenth and twentieth century went into more detail about
(20:20):
the production process, particularly how to speed up fermentation. One
twentieth century were concluded recipes for pan fried up go
to jong, which I found fascinating. Uh and uses of
go to jong and soup and also that implies that
this ingredient was important to soups and stews at the time,
which is something that is still around to this day.
(20:42):
According to BBC, article is actually August, so very recent
as we record this article by Arran chang Uh Adventure.
Isabella Bird wrote about Korea in the eighteen nineties that
she observed quote sauces of pungent and objectionable odors, the
basis of most of them being cap sucumbs and fermented
(21:03):
rotten beans, with an explication point yeah. She also observed
that everyone in Korea eight go to jong, even babies. Okay, yeah,
she made a point to go out of her way.
In the decades after the Korean War, industrialization allowed for
working class families and people who lived in cities to
buy plastic containers of mass produced goju chong, and beginning
(21:27):
in n the Korean Food Research Institute introduced a series
of large scale technologies to improve the harvesting of red chilies,
things like stem cutters, steam cleaners, and continuous role mills.
This allowed for the annual production of seventy thousand tons
of good quality red pepper powder. And in go to
(21:48):
John manufacturers teamed up with the Korean Food Research Institute
to come up with the go tou Jong Hot Taste
Unit are the g U to measure the spiciness of
go to chong. Although and please correct me if I'm
wrong listeners. From what I've read, it might be mostly arbitrary.
I I also thought this. When I'm at a restaurant
(22:08):
they have the chili peppers next things, I'm like, who
decides what's the three and what's a four? Oh yeah,
oh yeah, And I feel like it's really up to
whatever chef is in the kitchen at that particular moment. Yes, exactly,
because sometimes you get a three pepper and it's fine,
and sometimes you get a three pepper it's not fine
(22:30):
and you are in trouble. And other times you're like,
oh man, this could have been spicier. Yeah, hard degree, yes, yes,
So this this scale hu It grates from zero to one,
with five labels mildly hot, slightly hot, medium hot, very hot,
and extremely hot. Uh, which from what I if I
(22:51):
remember in correctly, that one's pretty rare. It's kind of
like And also from what I understand, this was sort
of an effort to, I guess, reassure foreigners we weren't
familiar with gochu jong that it's not going to be
that hot. No, like, it's okay, give it a try,
You're not gonna be miserable. Yeah, yeah, And I think
(23:13):
that this was in conjunction with a few other things happening.
Also in South Korea's A S CJ Corporation began launching
modified gochu jong globally UM, starting with their American affiliate
brand any Chun's. And prior to this, goto jong had
been available in Europe and the America's but UM but
imported and and largely marketed specifically to Korean expats UM.
(23:38):
So you know, in the US the market had only
been worth some like three million dollars a year, and
they were with this initiative UM hoping for like fifty
million by and I guess it's not quite there yet,
but they are working towards it. They keep on expanding.
As of the same company announced that they were nearing
(24:00):
a release of halal um suitable for from Muslim markets. Yeah,
and very recently there's been a renewed interest in Korean
heritage and health UH coupled with more disposal income that
is fostered the growth of a market for song made
the traditional way, also classes on how to learn how
(24:21):
to do that, and at least in my anecdotal case,
I feel like more and more people in my circle
not only know about it, but love it and yeah yeah,
um yeah, we're we're we are very lucky here in
Atlanta to have um a strong Korean population that has
opened up so many amazing, beautiful restaurants that UM, I
(24:45):
I really miss going to um the the open top
grill kind of situations right now with and just eating
so much beautiful food. UM. But uh but but yeah yeah,
so so we have that, and we have Korean roosters,
and so we can get some of these products perhaps
more easily than um other places in the United States
(25:06):
might have access to. But but but yeah, I'd say
that it's a it's a steady trend around the United
States Korean style menu items on non Korean menus, UM
and I would venture to say that if you buy
such a menu item and it is spicy and like
(25:29):
a little savory and sweet and funky, gocha jong is
probably the key ingredient that is making it Korean. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
um And I did read I can't remember prove was
for this episode specifically, but that the dreaded millennials are
more about trying new foods and having new experiences. So
(25:52):
because of that, UM, a lot of restaurants are expanding
what they're offering, and it does include um, foods that
like Korean foods or yeah, just more awareness of all
those kinds of things and a desire to try all
those kinds of things. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, yeah,
me too, um and uh yeah, I always always want
(26:14):
to try all the new food m m hmmmm. Well
we're probably both of those going to be having some
cocu join in our future. But we do have a
little bit more for you, we do. But first we've
got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(26:40):
and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with thiseness complex layers. Oh okay. You know
what I love about this is I've realized and I
know I think we said this once but it ended
up getting cut. You can hear the delay like you're
(27:03):
doing it. I can hear like, oh, that's the internet delay,
but it's other than that. It's like on point. So
good job, Lauren. You're you're good. And these always come
with gesticulations and they really help you're You're You're like
a composer up there, just leading me, leading me. Remember
that time I almost destroyed the studio because I spun around.
(27:28):
I do that way I get into it. I'm just
waiting for the day I do that my home studio
and knock all of your costumes off yours and all
your games off the shelves, and then I'll just become
one like what do I got in here? Winter's Soldier
(27:48):
with my Star Wars Harley Quinn mash up costume? Oh no, yeah, yeah,
I wonder. I wonder what food item will finally do it? Oh,
it's gotta be. We already did Simon roll. That would
have been probably the one obvious choice. But I'm sure
(28:09):
there's one. There's one out there. It's gonna make me
spin and now all everything's gonna come crashing down. But
that didn't happen today, So not today. We'll eagerly await
that day. In the meantime, uh Cinema wrote, I was
(28:32):
listening to your Mohito episode today and just had your
right in. Mohitos are one of my favorite drinks, so
refreshing and delightful, though now I will definitely think twice
before ordering one. In a I spent a week. I
spent a week in Mexico back in February, and every
day at the pool from eleven am to one pm
was happier where you order a drink and they bring
(28:53):
you to every day For a week between eleven and
one my best friend and I had a pair of
mohitas and chips and coamole to go along with our
pool side lounging. That sounds amazing. Best thing ever. Also,
I was glad to hear you mentioned the mohito flavored craze.
When he first started talking, I thought I have to
tell them about mohito flavored seven up, but then you
(29:14):
mentioned it, so instead, I'll tell you my story about
mohito flavored seven up. My husband and I were in
Paris on vacation for my birthday a couple of years ago,
and one evening he just wasn't feeling well, So instead
of going out to dinner, I just popped across the
street to the little market and grabbed a couple of
quick pasta meals and bottled and bottled beverages. Since my
husband's stomach was bothering him, I grabbed a seven up,
(29:35):
not really looking at it other than to see it
was seven up. I get back to our room and
he opens it and takes a sick The look on
his face is one of pure disgust what I asked,
and he thrust the bottle at me to shy myself.
I examined the bottle and noticed the Mohito label on it.
I take at tentative sip. It has a sickly sweet,
(29:56):
minty limey medicine you taste, and I'm sure I made
my own pure discussed. I apologized profusely for not paying
close to attention to the bottle, not for it to
go back to the store. But my husband strike it
off and continued to drink it between the bubbles and
the ment. It did manage settle his stomach. But I
definitely wouldn't recommend it. Huh, I think too, And I'm not.
(30:20):
I'm not dismissing your reaction at all, but in my keys,
like if I'm expecting one thing and I get another,
like the other day, Oh oh boy, I oh no,
I thought I was drinking. I was thinking a big
swing of water and it was definitely a gin and tonic,
and oh that was I It took me many minutes
(30:43):
to recover from just the shock of it wasn't as bad,
just normally don't take that big of a gulp of
of gin and tonic all at once. Yeah. Yeah, I
think the worst the worst experience of that that I
ever had was um, I was eating um, you know,
some some like pieces of like chocolate covered fruit, you know,
(31:03):
and uh, and one of them, like I thought, because
of the shape it was going to be a ball
of like melon, like like honeydew maybe or cantelope or
something kind of in chocolate, because it was the exact
same shape as a melon ball. It was not melan.
It was apple, and and I was like, what is
(31:26):
wrong with my life? Like why what have I done
to deserve this? What is what? This is a punishment?
I a lot of I wrot And then once I
realized what it was, I was like, oh, this is fine,
but like I couldn't get over that initial reaction. I
was like, no more of that. Yeah. My my friends
once they thought I was being a big child and
(31:50):
they thought I was hyping up my distaste for Dr Pepper,
So they switched out my coke with Dr Pepper and
I did the most infamous like jacktile spittake, I mean
feet feet It went, Oh, I'm not messing around. I
don't like Dr Pepper. Don't try to trick me. Oh wow,
(32:12):
that's amazing. Um, and I'm sorry that you had that experience.
That sounds unpleasant. It was. I haven't forgotten it like
that happened in middles clearly. Oh my gosh, I assumed
this was like four years ago. No, this is like
middle school cool, but I never forget. Uh um. Well,
(32:35):
Daniel wrote, I just listened to your episode on ice
cream trucks, which made me think about the ice cream
carts I saw in Singapore. Those little carts are usually
owned by elderly ice cream uncles. They can be found
in the tourist areas, but more so in residential areas
and outside schools after class's end. While they sell all
kinds of ice cream, their most iconic and popular offering
(32:55):
is the ice cream sandwich. Not to be confused with
the type of ice cream sandwich sold prepackaged. This dish
consists of a thick chunk of ice cream, not scooped,
but sliced from a big slab. This is then served
wrapped in a slice of soft rainbow colored soft bread.
This is a local favorite and when I moved to Singapore,
I had to try it. Unfortunately, when I got around
(33:17):
to order it, the uncle gave me the daury In
varieties instead of the mango flavor I asked for. This
experience has traumatized me so much that I haven't dared
to try anything from the ice cream card again ever,
since this is exactly what we're talking about. Expectations, expectations. Yes, also,
(33:40):
I highly recommend any listeners look this up. It's really
pretty like the ringbow colored bread sandwich. Yeah, that's that
sounds The mango flavor does sound amazing. I would probably
also enjoy the Dauryan flavor, but I would want to
be expecting it. I still have that ice cream, Lauren.
(34:01):
I we like Cathulu. It weights in our dreams, in
my my freezer, freezer. Uh no, okay, well yeah yeah
as soon as we as soon as we plan a
(34:21):
socially distanced hang out, yes, we'll have oysters, dirty and
ice cream. It's shaping up to be quite the event.
It is. Heck um whoa. Well, we will definitely figure
that out mean time. Thanks to both of those listeners
(34:43):
whore writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is Hello at savor pod dot com.
We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can visit
the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
(35:04):
super producers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heeart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren voc Obam. And today
we're talking about GoChi jong because we are MASSI Case
and we already gave ourselves mackearol in a French episode,
and now we're going to tackle Korean. Yeah, why not?
(00:28):
I can think of some reasons, but they won't stop us,
because gochu jong is amazing and worth talking about, oh
so worth talking about. And this was inspired by a
conversation that we had after we wrapped our last recording,
right between us and super producer Andrew, who was had
just eaten what sounded like a fantastic sandwich, yeah, which
(00:51):
had gochu jong on it. Uh. And I actually had
never heard of gochu jong until I think a year ago.
My co host Ritt Sminthy Samantha. She first was very angry, uh,
and then enthusiastically introduced me to it uses it in everything. Um.
And I know I've had it before. I'm confident i've
(01:12):
had it before. I just didn't know what it was.
And actually today I made my uh once in every
two to three weeks grocery store trip and I and
then I accidentally put a like a ton of it
my salad. And you know what I've learned is it's
really strong by itself, but like when I mixed it up,
it was pretty good. Yeah, it really like mellowed out.
(01:36):
It does it? Does? It melts with other flavors really well.
I and I was saying during that conversation, Um, you know,
I was like, heck, yeah, Andrew, you put gochu jong
on your sandwich because gochu jong goes on everything. Um.
If I am making pretty much anything savory, I'm just like,
and here's the part where I put in a spoonful
of gocha jong because why not? Um, definitely all of
(01:57):
my marinades and stuff, get some gochu jong of salad dressings.
Oh yeah, yeah, all this stuff. Um I uh yeah.
I started gaining exposure to Korean cuisine maybe about eight
or ten years ago. Imagine that scene in Nightmare Before
Christmas where like Jack Skellington is like prancing through Christmas
Town but it's like me and An h Mart and
(02:20):
that that was that was about how it how it went.
Were you singing what's this as you? I mean, probably
I can see it. I can see yeah, only if
I don't know what most of this is, but I
want to eat it immediately. So many things to try yes, um, yeah,
and go to John was one of the first things
(02:42):
that I figured out was like completely necessary to my lifestyle. Yeah,
I'm excited. I'm excited to start cooking with it myself,
start using yes, m um and yeah you can uh
we We previously did an episode on kimchi that overlaps
this in terms of the chili pepper part just a
(03:03):
little bit. Um. Also, glutenous rice comes up in here,
and we have an episode on that as well. I
didn't look up when they happened, but I have so
much faith in y'all to google and figure it out.
I do too, I do too. But I suppose we
should get to our question. Oh yeah, I suppose go
to John. What is it? Well? Gu jung is a
(03:30):
type of chili sauce that's a that's so thick and
so finely blended that it's more like a paste. Um.
And it's made with a hot red chilies, rice, flour
sometimes other flowers, fermented soybeans and salt mixed with water
and then allowed to all ferment together. Um and and
it winds up in a paste form, either before or
after both It depends on how you're making it. But
(03:52):
at any rate, Um, other seasonings might be added to,
like a garlic or onion or sweeteners, but but that
the result is going to be this like deep crimson paste,
thicker than catch up, more like um, like fresh ground
peanut butter, or maybe like marmite vegemite kind of consistency. Um.
And it's it's savory and spicy and salty and a
(04:12):
little bit funky and sweet. And yeah, it can be used,
as we have been saying, as a seasoning during cooking,
or a condiment in composing dishes or just at the table. Um,
A little does tend to go a long way. It's
kind of powerful stuff. But yeah, as long as you
like spice, you can kind of just blend it in
as you please. Yes, yes, it was delightful. I think
(04:34):
the word I saw the most from from westernized American
outlets describing Gochu jong was complex. Yeah, it's kind of
got all the flavors in there at once, and I oh,
I love it. It's why compliments so many different things.
But okay, um, let's go a little bit deeper into
(04:54):
what this stuff is. So so the word gochu jong
is composed of gochu meaning chili pepper in Korean and
and young meaning a a saucer paste based in fermented soybeans.
And the traditional way of making any kind of young,
including Korean soy sauce, is to start by boiling soybeans
down for for hours like six hours, and then draining
(05:16):
them and forming them into blocks um like like toaster sized,
like pop up toaster sized blocks. Yeah, and these are
called and maju and they're they're wrapped in rice stocks
and then allowed to hang dry and ferment for at
least a couple of weeks, like ninety days. Is arranged
that I have seen, which means that we are talking
(05:37):
about bacteria. And I love being your hype woman in
this so excited for you every time. Thank you. I
love it too. I'm glad that I feel like it's
bringing us closer together every time. Yep, I think so.
(06:01):
Uh So. The two main microbes at play here are
Vasilis subtalists, which is this bacterium that's naturally found growing
on rice stocks, and Aspergillus urasi or as I. Yeah
that one. Sure, let's go with that um, which is
a domesticated strain of yeast that um also favors growing
on rice. But um has been domesticated and is used
(06:24):
for the fermentation of various starchy products from miso to
showed you and and show chew for thousands of years.
It's been around. Sometimes this is called kogi mold. And
so as these and other microbes UM grow on and
in that the made you that that block of cooked soybeans, UM,
those microbes digest some of those complex starches and and
(06:48):
other stuff and UH and poop sugars and flavors. So
when you're making a jung traditionally you take some of
these made you blocks and uh in place them in
like a big old clay jar or pot like two
feet tall, like a two thirds of a meter, and
toss in whatever else your ingredients are UM. In the
(07:10):
case of GoChi jong at chilies, rice flour um probably
glutinous rice flowers, it's a little bit sweeter, water, salt,
whatever other seasonings you like, and you just let that
vessel hang out for like three months to a year,
usually outdoors UM in a carefully chosen location, and during
that time, UM further microbes further break stuff down and
(07:30):
mitigate unpleasant flavors and create good flavors. This one paper
I found published in UM the journal Food Science and
Biotechnology back in found a total of seven genuses and
thirty one species of microorganisms in the GoChi jong that
they sampled, UM, seven homemade varieties and five commercial varieties,
including Yeah, just like all kinds of fungi and yeasts
(07:52):
in bacteria. That's so cool. Yeah, And of course, however,
that is probably not how the like millions of gallons
of gochu jong that are made commercially every year get created. Um.
There are all sorts of shortcuts you can take, like
just cultivating koji mold on the rice flakes and then
(08:13):
powdering that and mixing it in with the rice and
soybean flowers and your other ingredients. The fermentation process can
be really tightly controlled too, so that you can control
your final textures and flavors. Other grains can be used.
You might boost the flavor with like yeast extracts or
something like that. UM. Different flavor profiles and viscosities have
been developed for different markets. Uh, there's a there's a
(08:35):
whole paper from on the non Newtonian characteristics of gochu jong.
And cho gochu jong at different temperatures and it made
me so happy. That's excellent. I want to know so
much more about this. Basically, yeah, they were just saying like, well,
here's how it works. Go take this science and use
(08:57):
it to make different kinds of those things at show
go to jung being a related condiment that you make
using goti jung and vinegar. But I love it. Um.
I read an interview with a chef who teaches people
how to make their own gocha jong and they said
(09:17):
they described the clay pots and jars as living, breathing things.
Oh yeah, Oh, I read this beautiful article in sevir
about how jung are made, and yeah, the word for
where they kept these pots was like it involved the
(09:37):
description garden. It was like garden of pots and and
the whole thing. Like I felt like the dude in
charge and us would really get along. Like he was
just like exclaiming how excited he was about mold the
entire time, and uh, I loved it. It sounds it
sounds like a like like when you do it the
traditional way, it seems like a really um beautiful process
(10:01):
if you consider mold to be beautiful, which we often
do here at all. Mold some molds, many molds, many molds. Uh. Well,
speaking up, what about the nutrition, Well, um, it does
depend on how it's made, but generally UM, Gota doung
is one of those products that adds a lot of
(10:23):
flavor for a low caloric load. UM. So take that
as you will. UM. It can pack a lot of salt,
so watch out for that if that's something that you're
watching out for. And it has been long considered a
digestive stimulant and like a general warmer upper or or
pepper upper of of of people. UM. Some modern research
(10:45):
suggests that UM some compounds found in gocha jong may
help rats better process fats in their systems, leading to
better cholesterol levels UM. And some other research indicates that
UM other compounds are in there that may have antioxidant
and anticancer effects. And human as always, as always, Uh yeah,
(11:06):
the human body is complicated. More research needs to be
done before ingest. Don't ingest medicinal levels of gocci jong probably,
I mean, only eat it if you like it, and
then eat as much as you want, I guess, but
I suppose we'd have to get down to brass tacks
of what's a medicinal level. That's that's true. It's medicinal
(11:35):
in like the but like by the spoonful for me
in terms of my mood. Um. Oh yeah yeah, then
we have to separate like you know, mental health medicinal
and you know actual physiological medicinal. Several follow up questions,
but yes, uh, just always consult a professional, which we
(11:58):
are not. No, we're professional goofy food podcasters, right, a
medical professional. Consultant, medical professional four here ingesting medicinal levels
of anything. Yes, yes, um, okay, so we don't have
those numbers for you, but we do have some other
numbers we do. Okay. This first one is a little dated.
(12:22):
It's from but it's from an article from the Chili
Pepper Institute, and it's like a newsletter. And I read
the whole thing, even though only the first portion was
about go Jong because I was in love with it. Um.
But according to this newsletter, Red Pepper accounts for of
annual vegetable production and four point five of gross agricultural
(12:45):
product in South Korea, And it goes on to put
per capital consumption at two point five ks in that
country and the production value at eight hundred million dollars. Wow. Yeah,
and this Kim she also falls in there like a
lot of other things. But yeah, gives you an idea
of how important that pepper is. Go to Jong exports
(13:06):
from South Korea went up from s eighteen, valued at
thirty six point eight one million dollars, and most of
those exports went to the United States and the United Kingdom.
One Korean news agency found that of South Koreans make
sure to pack go to jong when they travel abroad,
(13:28):
especially if they're going to be gone for a while. Yeah,
And I couldn't really find any other numbers to back
that up, but I found a lot of anecdotal evidence,
So I definitely believe it is a thing. As someone
who brings peanut butter with me and I travel abroad,
I'm on the wavelength. I got you. Yeah, yeah, I
I did start packing um some of those little tiny
(13:50):
bottles of tabasco sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. You can never go
wrong with hot sauce, always right hot some hand. It's
useful for so many things, it is. It is indeed. Uh,
there is a go to Junk festival and the sun
Chung Traditional Paste Museum is located on Fermented Paste Road.
(14:18):
Oh that's in that's in South Korea. I love I
love everything about this. Yes, I want so badly, I
want so badly to go check out like how all
these things are made and look at that museum and
eat so much food. Um, maybe we can all trade.
I'll bring extra little bottles of American hot sauce. We
(14:39):
can all trade. I don't know, I like this idea,
but yeah, yeah, if if you if you think that
you've never had this before, it's a possibility that, like Annie,
you have but you were unaware. Um. I forgot to
say in the wood is it section? Um that uh
that it is one of the traditional accompaniments, Um in
a in a bowl of bibom bab. So if you've
(15:01):
had that dish, which is a fairly common Crean dish
here in the United States, it's that that it's the
red stuff that's on there. Yes, so good, so good.
You mix it in. It makes everything kind of meld together.
It adds this ah, so nice. Yes, this was a
very hungry episode, y'all. Yeah for sure. Um, luckily we
(15:24):
both have some so we can finish. Yes, But before
we go do that, um, we are going to get
into some history. But before we go do that. We
are going to get into a quick break for a
word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you, Spencer, Yes,
(15:50):
thank you. So Like we've talked about several episodes, certainly
every episode that's ever mentioned fermentation uh as a as
a main thing involved in the food we're talking about,
including the closely related kim chi. Fermitted foods have been around,
oh as a way to preserve foods for pretty much
(16:14):
people have been eating. Yes, yes, because it's a great way.
It's a great way to take something that is healthy
and nice when it's fresh and make sure that you
can eat it later when fresh foods may not be available. Yes,
Um and Jong themselves have been around for thousands of years. Uh.
(16:36):
One thing I read that I wasn't able to find
anywhere in English, So if anyone knows that this is true,
is that there are three main gngs and Goja Jong
was the last one introduced. Yes, yes, the three, and
I don't have the names of them right in front
of me, so I'm I'm not sure what they are
off the top of my head, but yeah, it's basically
um soy sauce, um soy paste, and then chili so
(17:02):
I paste gochu jong. Yes, yes, just yes, um so
this was something people would make, individual households would make
on their own and in these in these clay pots,
um gochu jongs recorded history specifically goes back to either
the sixteenth or seventeenth century, made with red chilies, which
most likely arrived with European explorers towards the end of
(17:22):
the fifteen hundreds, and this early gochu chong was usually
composed of major powder, rice flour or gluteness, rice flower,
and red pepper flower. Although one of the first believed
mentions of gochu jong's predecessor is from a ninth century
Chinese document detailing the perceived health benefits of eating a
Korean pepper paste. As translated, this believed to have gender
(17:44):
and green onion in it, and some sources claim that
something similar to gochu chong was historically used medicinally for
all sorts of things, particularly ailments of the stomach. So
many yeah, I read that other spicy foods like like
maybe black pepper corns could have been used in place
of chili peppers before the arrival of chili peppers from
(18:05):
the America's through whichever route they arrived through. Um. I
think possibly Japanese colonization. Um. But but it's it's hard
to track down. It's one of those things that is
historically difficult for someone reading only in English too to
truly ascertain. Yes. Um. Whatever the case, it didn't take
(18:28):
long for the sauce gocho John to spread in Korea
and for the use of it to diversify. One of
the more popular varieties sun Chon gochu Jong, which, as
we mentioned at the top, you might be able to
tell it was popular variety because that's where the museum is,
that's where the festival is, was well loved by kings
during the chose Son dynasty. In fact, some of the
(18:50):
very first recorded recipes were specifically meant to be made
as gifts for the king. Yeah. And one of the
very first recorded recipes for go to John comes from
the seventeen twenties, recorded by a royal physician, and physicians
claimed gochu Jong save the King's life in Yeah Powerful Stuff.
(19:15):
The first recorded written steps on the process of guchi
jong production in Hungle the Korean language, appeared in eighteen
oh six. Later, a SPEs sometimes called for adding meats
are jujube for sweetness Uh jiujub being a kind of date. Yes,
and I'm very, very embarrassed to say, I'm so glad
I looked this up before because I was going to
(19:38):
pronounce it like the candy juju. Yeah. Yeah, that would
have been embarrassing. That would have been my guests as well. Yes,
disaster averted this one time at this once for nunciation
and then people are right in No, I tried, I
(19:58):
looked it up, um, but yeah was added for sweetness.
Beginning in the eighteenth century, references to go to John
started popping up everywhere in Korea, from imperial documents to
books to poetry and uh. It was essentially a staple
by the nineteenth century in that country. Korean documents from
the nineteenth and twentieth century went into more detail about
(20:20):
the production process, particularly how to speed up fermentation. One
twentieth century were concluded recipes for pan fried up go
to jong, which I found fascinating. Uh and uses of
go to jong and soup and also that implies that
this ingredient was important to soups and stews at the time,
which is something that is still around to this day.
(20:42):
According to BBC, article is actually August, so very recent
as we record this article by Arran chang Uh Adventure.
Isabella Bird wrote about Korea in the eighteen nineties that
she observed quote sauces of pungent and objectionable odors, the
basis of most of them being cap sucumbs and fermented
(21:03):
rotten beans, with an explication point yeah. She also observed
that everyone in Korea eight go to jong, even babies. Okay, yeah,
she made a point to go out of her way.
In the decades after the Korean War, industrialization allowed for
working class families and people who lived in cities to
buy plastic containers of mass produced goju chong, and beginning
(21:27):
in n the Korean Food Research Institute introduced a series
of large scale technologies to improve the harvesting of red chilies,
things like stem cutters, steam cleaners, and continuous role mills.
This allowed for the annual production of seventy thousand tons
of good quality red pepper powder. And in go to
(21:48):
John manufacturers teamed up with the Korean Food Research Institute
to come up with the go tou Jong Hot Taste
Unit are the g U to measure the spiciness of
go to chong. Although and please correct me if I'm
wrong listeners. From what I've read, it might be mostly arbitrary.
I I also thought this. When I'm at a restaurant
(22:08):
they have the chili peppers next things, I'm like, who
decides what's the three and what's a four? Oh yeah,
oh yeah, And I feel like it's really up to
whatever chef is in the kitchen at that particular moment. Yes, exactly,
because sometimes you get a three pepper and it's fine,
and sometimes you get a three pepper it's not fine
(22:30):
and you are in trouble. And other times you're like,
oh man, this could have been spicier. Yeah, hard degree, yes, yes,
So this this scale hu It grates from zero to one,
with five labels mildly hot, slightly hot, medium hot, very hot,
and extremely hot. Uh, which from what I if I
(22:51):
remember in correctly, that one's pretty rare. It's kind of
like And also from what I understand, this was sort
of an effort to, I guess, reassure foreigners we weren't
familiar with gochu jong that it's not going to be
that hot. No, like, it's okay, give it a try,
You're not gonna be miserable. Yeah, yeah, And I think
(23:13):
that this was in conjunction with a few other things happening.
Also in South Korea's A S CJ Corporation began launching
modified gochu jong globally UM, starting with their American affiliate
brand any Chun's. And prior to this, goto jong had
been available in Europe and the America's but UM but
imported and and largely marketed specifically to Korean expats UM.
(23:38):
So you know, in the US the market had only
been worth some like three million dollars a year, and
they were with this initiative UM hoping for like fifty
million by and I guess it's not quite there yet,
but they are working towards it. They keep on expanding.
As of the same company announced that they were nearing
(24:00):
a release of halal um suitable for from Muslim markets. Yeah,
and very recently there's been a renewed interest in Korean
heritage and health UH coupled with more disposal income that
is fostered the growth of a market for song made
the traditional way, also classes on how to learn how
(24:21):
to do that, and at least in my anecdotal case,
I feel like more and more people in my circle
not only know about it, but love it and yeah yeah,
um yeah, we're we're we are very lucky here in
Atlanta to have um a strong Korean population that has
opened up so many amazing, beautiful restaurants that UM, I
(24:45):
I really miss going to um the the open top
grill kind of situations right now with and just eating
so much beautiful food. UM. But uh but but yeah yeah,
so so we have that, and we have Korean roosters,
and so we can get some of these products perhaps
more easily than um other places in the United States
(25:06):
might have access to. But but but yeah, I'd say
that it's a it's a steady trend around the United
States Korean style menu items on non Korean menus, UM
and I would venture to say that if you buy
such a menu item and it is spicy and like
(25:29):
a little savory and sweet and funky, gocha jong is
probably the key ingredient that is making it Korean. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
um And I did read I can't remember prove was
for this episode specifically, but that the dreaded millennials are
more about trying new foods and having new experiences. So
(25:52):
because of that, UM, a lot of restaurants are expanding
what they're offering, and it does include um, foods that
like Korean foods or yeah, just more awareness of all
those kinds of things and a desire to try all
those kinds of things. So I'm excited about that. Yeah, yeah,
me too, um and uh yeah, I always always want
(26:14):
to try all the new food m m hmmmm. Well
we're probably both of those going to be having some
cocu join in our future. But we do have a
little bit more for you, we do. But first we've
got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(26:40):
and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with thiseness complex layers. Oh okay. You know
what I love about this is I've realized and I
know I think we said this once but it ended
up getting cut. You can hear the delay like you're
(27:03):
doing it. I can hear like, oh, that's the internet delay,
but it's other than that. It's like on point. So
good job, Lauren. You're you're good. And these always come
with gesticulations and they really help you're You're You're like
a composer up there, just leading me, leading me. Remember
that time I almost destroyed the studio because I spun around.
(27:28):
I do that way I get into it. I'm just
waiting for the day I do that my home studio
and knock all of your costumes off yours and all
your games off the shelves, and then I'll just become
one like what do I got in here? Winter's Soldier
(27:48):
with my Star Wars Harley Quinn mash up costume? Oh no, yeah, yeah,
I wonder. I wonder what food item will finally do it? Oh,
it's gotta be. We already did Simon roll. That would
have been probably the one obvious choice. But I'm sure
(28:09):
there's one. There's one out there. It's gonna make me
spin and now all everything's gonna come crashing down. But
that didn't happen today, So not today. We'll eagerly await
that day. In the meantime, uh Cinema wrote, I was
(28:32):
listening to your Mohito episode today and just had your
right in. Mohitos are one of my favorite drinks, so
refreshing and delightful, though now I will definitely think twice
before ordering one. In a I spent a week. I
spent a week in Mexico back in February, and every
day at the pool from eleven am to one pm
was happier where you order a drink and they bring
(28:53):
you to every day For a week between eleven and
one my best friend and I had a pair of
mohitas and chips and coamole to go along with our
pool side lounging. That sounds amazing. Best thing ever. Also,
I was glad to hear you mentioned the mohito flavored craze.
When he first started talking, I thought I have to
tell them about mohito flavored seven up, but then you
(29:14):
mentioned it, so instead, I'll tell you my story about
mohito flavored seven up. My husband and I were in
Paris on vacation for my birthday a couple of years ago,
and one evening he just wasn't feeling well, So instead
of going out to dinner, I just popped across the
street to the little market and grabbed a couple of
quick pasta meals and bottled and bottled beverages. Since my
husband's stomach was bothering him, I grabbed a seven up,
(29:35):
not really looking at it other than to see it
was seven up. I get back to our room and
he opens it and takes a sick The look on
his face is one of pure disgust what I asked,
and he thrust the bottle at me to shy myself.
I examined the bottle and noticed the Mohito label on it.
I take at tentative sip. It has a sickly sweet,
(29:56):
minty limey medicine you taste, and I'm sure I made
my own pure discussed. I apologized profusely for not paying
close to attention to the bottle, not for it to
go back to the store. But my husband strike it
off and continued to drink it between the bubbles and
the ment. It did manage settle his stomach. But I
definitely wouldn't recommend it. Huh, I think too, And I'm not.
(30:20):
I'm not dismissing your reaction at all, but in my keys,
like if I'm expecting one thing and I get another,
like the other day, Oh oh boy, I oh no,
I thought I was drinking. I was thinking a big
swing of water and it was definitely a gin and tonic,
and oh that was I It took me many minutes
(30:43):
to recover from just the shock of it wasn't as bad,
just normally don't take that big of a gulp of
of gin and tonic all at once. Yeah. Yeah, I
think the worst the worst experience of that that I
ever had was um, I was eating um, you know,
some some like pieces of like chocolate covered fruit, you know,
(31:03):
and uh, and one of them, like I thought, because
of the shape it was going to be a ball
of like melon, like like honeydew maybe or cantelope or
something kind of in chocolate, because it was the exact
same shape as a melon ball. It was not melan.
It was apple, and and I was like, what is
(31:26):
wrong with my life? Like why what have I done
to deserve this? What is what? This is a punishment?
I a lot of I wrot And then once I
realized what it was, I was like, oh, this is fine,
but like I couldn't get over that initial reaction. I
was like, no more of that. Yeah. My my friends
once they thought I was being a big child and
(31:50):
they thought I was hyping up my distaste for Dr Pepper,
So they switched out my coke with Dr Pepper and
I did the most infamous like jacktile spittake, I mean
feet feet It went, Oh, I'm not messing around. I
don't like Dr Pepper. Don't try to trick me. Oh wow,
(32:12):
that's amazing. Um, and I'm sorry that you had that experience.
That sounds unpleasant. It was. I haven't forgotten it like
that happened in middles clearly. Oh my gosh, I assumed
this was like four years ago. No, this is like
middle school cool, but I never forget. Uh um. Well,
(32:35):
Daniel wrote, I just listened to your episode on ice
cream trucks, which made me think about the ice cream
carts I saw in Singapore. Those little carts are usually
owned by elderly ice cream uncles. They can be found
in the tourist areas, but more so in residential areas
and outside schools after class's end. While they sell all
kinds of ice cream, their most iconic and popular offering
(32:55):
is the ice cream sandwich. Not to be confused with
the type of ice cream sandwich sold prepackaged. This dish
consists of a thick chunk of ice cream, not scooped,
but sliced from a big slab. This is then served
wrapped in a slice of soft rainbow colored soft bread.
This is a local favorite and when I moved to Singapore,
I had to try it. Unfortunately, when I got around
(33:17):
to order it, the uncle gave me the daury In
varieties instead of the mango flavor I asked for. This
experience has traumatized me so much that I haven't dared
to try anything from the ice cream card again ever,
since this is exactly what we're talking about. Expectations, expectations. Yes, also,
(33:40):
I highly recommend any listeners look this up. It's really
pretty like the ringbow colored bread sandwich. Yeah, that's that
sounds The mango flavor does sound amazing. I would probably
also enjoy the Dauryan flavor, but I would want to
be expecting it. I still have that ice cream, Lauren.
(34:01):
I we like Cathulu. It weights in our dreams, in
my my freezer, freezer. Uh no, okay, well yeah yeah
as soon as we as soon as we plan a
(34:21):
socially distanced hang out, yes, we'll have oysters, dirty and
ice cream. It's shaping up to be quite the event.
It is. Heck um whoa. Well, we will definitely figure
that out mean time. Thanks to both of those listeners
(34:43):
whore writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can. Our email is Hello at savor pod dot com.
We're also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can visit
the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
(35:04):
super producers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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