April 24, 2023 • 29 mins
This traditional condiment, made of red chili peppers and various warm seasonings, is going increasingly global. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and culture of harissa.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
any Rear and I'm more in vogel Baum. And today
we have an episode for you about Harisa.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, oh, cravings. Oh yeah, well, uh okay, actually a yes,
cravings be to specify, we're talking about the condiment today,
not the porridge, which is a whole separate episode. See,
I say cravings, but this is actually something that I'm
(00:38):
not sure I have experience with. Oh, I feel like
I have to. I feel like I had to have
had it in stuff. Mm hmm, but I'm not sure
you're not sure.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, it was funny when you suggested it, because I
have had a craving for Harisa recently. Oh, I've just
been on a big like I've wanted like a good
euro and hummus, and hummus often has like a swirl
of Harisa.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, then I've probably had it, But sometimes I avoid
the swirly ones because I'm afraid that it's sweet peppers
not spicy peppers. That's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But a lot of Middle Eastern restaurants have Resa hummus.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All Right, I must have had it. Well, we can investigate,
we can we can and I can rectify this either way. Yes,
it's already on my list. It's already on my list.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You can see past episodes on other hot sauces we've
done peppers and chili's that we've done.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Sarracha, okay sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
By the way, there is still a shortage of siracha
and I couldnot find.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Some the other day, and that is very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It is h Zaatar came up in a lot of
the research I was doing, and we've done an episode
on that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So yeah, maybe paprika as well. While we're talking about
dried peppers.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess this brings us
to our question. I guess it does. Harisa What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well? Harisa is a type of all purpose condiment made
variably thick and variably smooth, with a base of seasoned, dried,
and or roasted chili paste. Recipes vary and involve lots
of personal preferences and flair, but the seasonings are often
salt and garlic plus warm, bright spices like coriander and caraway,
(02:44):
blended together with something acidic, and then some olive oil
to round out the flavor and the texture. So the
result is going to be a paste or sauce that's rich,
red in color, and anywhere from fairly mild to like
really hot. Uh. And it can be used as a
finish for dishes served tableside as a dip or spread
(03:06):
or dressing. Is sometimes mixed with yogurt or other stuff
like that, and is also incorporated into just all kinds
of savory recipes like marinades and stews. It's a roasty
and spicy, bright and hot, a little bit fruity and
sort of bitter sweet. It's just like a really good
balanced chili paste condiment, both both comforting and exciting. It's
(03:32):
it's warm on warm, like a like a hug in
the sun. Oh that sounds so nice, right right. I
don't necessarily like hugs. I don't necessarily like the sun,
but that just sounds very good. It does, all right. Traditionally,
(03:53):
harisa is made with with ripe, red hot chili peppers
that are sun and then reconstituted when it comes time
to make the mix. Sometimes smoked peppers are used to
to get a little bit of that smoky flavor in there,
but you can use fresh or fresh roasted peppers of
whatever heat level. You like. Leaving out the seeds can
(04:14):
also mitigate that heat level. And I have read opinions
about whether it's appropriate to have seeds in heresa at all.
I have you do you? Yes? Yes? The seasonings right, definitely, Garlic,
usually roasted, and some salt, Coriander and caraway often human powdered.
(04:37):
Dried pepper like paprika or cayenne might boost your flavoring color.
Some recipes incorporate florals like like rose petals or rose water,
or herbs like mint, which sounds so good. Heck that acid.
You're not looking in heresa for as much acid as
we put in, like vinegar based hot sauces, but a
(05:00):
little bit of lemon juice or vinegar will help balance
out the sauce. Some recipes also use tomato paste, and
because you want to get the most out of the ingredients,
you're often gonna toast the peppers, the garlic, and the
spices and then blend it into a paste with the
acid and enough olive oil to bind it together. This
is often done with either a simple mortar and pestle,
(05:21):
or with a meat grinder. I saw meat grinder in
a lot of places, as like the recommendation for getting
the appropriate texture oka. Yeah. Yeah, and that final texture
can be anywhere from thick and firm to sort of
salsa like and spoonable chunky to smooth. And when you're
(05:41):
jarring it, yeah, you pour a little bit of extra
oil on top to help preserve it in the fridge,
just kind of like a lock in all the flavor. Yeah,
all kinds of varieties exist beyond this, though. You might
add like lemon peel or preserved lemon, or herbs like
oregano or fennel or saffron.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I had a friend make a dish that involved heresa
for me recently in the preserved lemon. She was telling
me all about like, how hey it was only a
tiny tone.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Oh okay, sure, because it ranks so much flavor it does?
It does? Yeah? Oh. I had some preserved lemon on
like a cheese plate situation that a friend made for
me recently, and I was like, I always forget. I
always forget, And every time I have preserved lemon, I'm like,
I need to Why do I not eat this every day?
It makes me so happy? It's so good. Oh. Anyway,
(06:36):
HARRISA is fairly easy to make it home but is
also sold jarred in stores, and these days it's available
as like a like a powdered spice blend flavor and
generally just as a flavor for prepackaged products. It shows
up in snacks like spiced nuts or beef jerky or olives,
in drinks like juice cocktails, and in frozen appetizes or
(07:00):
stuff like that. Wow and yeah, y'all, I got so
hungry looking at recipes that incorporate it, you know, like
it's great for tossing with vegetables before you roast or
grill them, or as a component of like a meat marinade.
(07:21):
You can use it to lay your flavor into a
grain dish like couscous or some kind of pulloff, or
any kind of souper stew or sauce or brazing liquid.
You can sub it in for ketchup and a meat loaf.
I mean, just put it on everything on the table,
I don't know, Mix it up with some more olive
oil and lemon juice, or with yogurt to make a
(07:41):
good dressing or a dip harisa ranch, I don't know.
Spread it on bread with goat cheese. Why have I
never put this in a pasta sauce before. I don't
know that on a lorn Herisa in like a mezcal cocktail.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Oh yeah, yes, so many options, so many things to explore.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
But what about the nutrition. Uh, it packs a lot
of flavor for a relatively low color punch. That does
depend on how much olive oil you're using in there,
but yeah, good, good spread of micro nutrients. Drink, drink
some water, eat a protein. Yeah. I thought you were
going to say drink responsibly, which I guess. Yeah, yeah,
(08:27):
drink here Harisa responsibly. Drink it responsibly.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I did read a pretty funny It was a really
anecdotal article about Harisa and there was one woman who
makes it, and she was joking about, like, you know,
don't put too much in it because it's going to
overpower every flavor. It's like a beautiful thing that comp
you don't need it to takes in her stage. But
also it might be hotter than you think it is,
(08:51):
so be careful.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was involved in the
recommendations for pairing it with yogurt to kind of tone
it down just a little, just a touch, just depending
on what you're going for exactly. Yes, well, we do
have some numbers for you, we do, okay. So, according
to Google Trends, a global interest in Herisa has been
(09:16):
spiking every January since twenty thirteen, which I read positive
on Serious Eats that this is like part of like
a January health food, clean eating kind of trend, like
how do I get more flavor into my food without
making it like too heavy? Huh? That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I ran across that as well, and we are going
to talk about it a bit in the history section.
But I guess that's never been my association, but there
is the whole Mediterranean diet concept.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. McCormick brand, perhaps unsurprisingly, has been keeping
an eye on this, and they report pretty huge growth
of Herisa as like a flavor and or ingredient on
menus and in products internationally. Like, as of twenty fourteen,
(10:09):
they reported only ten like internationally available products mentioned Harisa
in their descriptions, but between twenty fourteen and twenty nineteen,
two hundred and thirty one products were introduced into that category. Yeah.
They also further reported that as of twenty nineteen, Herisa
was mentioned on social media twenty eight times an hour
(10:32):
on average. Wow, they know everything about Azlauri. I you know,
they do, they do.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I will say I was doing a brief like where
can I get Harisa near me?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Search?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And I wasn't aware that you could get like a
flavoring powder thing.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
But that was a lot of what came up. Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah.
Tunisia is the largest exporter, oh yeah, as of two
thousand and seven, and they were exporting some five thousand
tons a year to more than twenty countries. And that
was before the kind of big boom in interest for
it hit. At the time, they were producing a total
(11:12):
of over twenty two thousand tons a year. As of
two thousand and six, the amount of peppers that Tunisia
was producing for all purposes, including harisa was about two
hundred and fifty six thousand tons. Who yeah, Herisa is
the country's second most important canned food export, like monetarily
(11:37):
and in volume. Although I didn't see note, no one
told me what was first. I'm guessing maybe like olive oil.
Does that count as a canned product? I?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Oh no, These are the thoughts that I lie awake
at night. I already have enough trouble sleeping. Move on,
all right, all right, all right?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
In Tunisia. Heresa is often eaten at least twice a day,
and the UN estimates that the production of it employs
around twenty five thousand people across the country.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, oh my gosh. Well, we do have some history
for you, We certainly do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break. For a word from our sponsors, and
(12:34):
we're back, Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So, archaeological evidence suggests that chili's have been eaten in
what is now Mexico for thousands of years, and we
have talked about this in previous episodes, but just kind
of a brief refresher.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, that is where they are from exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
The Aztecs, Mayans, and the Incas cultivated them and used
them in all kinds of things. When Columbus, yeah, that
guy and others like him arrived in the Americas, they
took these chilies with them and spread them all across
the globe. Chilis and quote peppers because it was kind
(13:13):
of that spice associated with black pepper, So that also
adds to some confusion here. But they ended up in
all kinds of dishes because of this many that we've
talked about on this show, like Chilis spread far and wide,
and they ended up in all kinds of things. They
were in Asia, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East by
(13:34):
the sixteen to seventeen hundreds. And I couldn't get to
the bottom of this, or I couldn't find very concrete
evidence I.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Guess really authoritative source. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But a couple of sources I found, and I did
run into this when I was researching this topic, suggest
that by the seventh century CE, the word harisa wasn't
used to refer to a wheat porridge with meat and spices,
and that it got that name because harrisa meant to
pound or to squash here referring to the pounded wheat.
(14:11):
But some speculate that when it comes to the sauce,
it did come from that, but it's referencing the pounding
of the chilies.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was I ran across a lot of
kind of anecdotal or like related anomology to that. To
that end, and right that porridge, which is a sort
of creamy grain and meat dish, it actually reminded me
a lot of the polenta that we were just talking
about recently. But yeah, yeah, it's a it's a porridge
(14:40):
dish that's cooked low and slow for hours and is
not what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
No, but I did have to clarify with you because
I had not heard of this, and I was like,
oh wait, hold on, yep, wish.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Theresa are we talking about here? Now?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Where exactly Heresa the sauce originated from and what exactly
it was made of in its early days are matters
of debate. I'm sure that's no surprise. However, most seemed
to agree that it probably originated in North Africa, and
especially perhaps Tunisia, where they have been growing these peppers
(15:17):
since they were introduced there hundreds of years ago. Records
suggest that these peppers that were yes most likely red peppers,
were first imported to Tunisia from Spain in the sixteenth century.
People fairly quickly started to adapt them add them into
their cuisine, and by the seventeenth century at least possibly earlier,
(15:38):
folks were drying them in the sun, grinding them up
with spices and perhaps other things, and then making a
paste out of it and adding that paste to protein dishes,
to couscous dishes, other grain dishes, or even just spreading
it on bread, which sounds really good to me. The
resulting paste was so popular that it prompted the spread
(16:00):
of the cultivation of these peppers into nearby areas, and
this pushed up the protection in places it was already grown,
so people were excited about it, started growing more, started
to spread. Yes, a couple of things I found also
linked Jewish and Muslim people expelled from Spain in the
sixteenth century that settled in Tunisia to the growth of
(16:22):
these peppers and the making of the paste. It's kind
of confusing in the way that globalization is very confusing.
Oh yeah, But the theory here is that they were
perhaps trying to recreate something that they had in Spain,
which may have been introduced to Spain via Arab traders.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Huh okay, all right, yeah sure, sure, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And according to this story, at least, the paste was
pretty easily adopted into all kinds of traditions and cuisines
in the area because it met many conditions and taste
of the peoples in the region. This particular article was
describing a festival there that celebrates Harisa and its history.
So cool, yeah, yeah, yeah. If listeners know more about that,
(17:07):
oh my gosh, please write it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
At some point in here people started using harisa as
a say it with me. Yeah, I really like I
saw that mentioned in a lot of articles. I couldn't
again find great concrete evidence of it, but I'll put
it in here.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Because yeah, I feel like I feel like humans, you know,
that's what we get up to.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Like, yeah, yeah, they're like, hey, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Meanwhile, the other ingredients that go into harisa, you know,
olives for the oil, those spices had been growing in
the region since way back, way way back. Yeah. Traditionally,
harisa is made, usually by women in the families or
the neighborhoods of the farmers who the peppers. And this
(18:01):
sounds like a party, like this sounds like a really
fun community event. Again, if you have personal experience or
familial experience, please please please write in. However, the rise
of industrialization and also dictatorships in North Africa during the
late twentieth century led to mass farming and centralized manufacturing
(18:25):
of herisa, often with poor working conditions. But since the
revolutions of the Arab Spring in the early twenty teens,
co ops have started popping up to improve the lives
and the livelihoods of small landowners and farm workers and
Haresa producers. In twenty fourteen, Tunisia created their own controlled
(18:47):
origin label for food products like this. It's sort of
like like a golden red sunburst design that'll say food
quality label Tunisia, and this is to guarantee like product
specifications and local production. This was in collaboration with the
UN Industrial Development Organization, which has also been helping get
(19:08):
Herisa out into the international market and has been supporting
some of those local co ops. There's one that I
kept running into called ERIEM, which is an all women
organization that as of twenty twenty two included one hundred
and sixty four women who were producing over four hundred
pounds of Herisa per day in their workshops.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
In twenty fifteen, Time Time magazine listed Heresa on its
list of fifty new.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Parenthesetes of all Time.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes, so yeah, fifty new healthiest foods of all time,
which kind of cracked me up. But I guess also
goes back to what you're mentioning earlier, Lauren, with the
January resurgence of popularity of.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Us right right, and also like new is hilarious when
it comes to something that's been made for hundreds of years.
But cool.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, I always be careful with that. That kind of language,
is what I'll say. In twenty twenty two, Herisa was
added to UNESCO's list of Intangible Cultural Heritage, specifically in
regards to Tunisia.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. Yeah, Tunisia had sort of applied for this, and
there was apparently no argument, like UNESCO was like a yep,
application approved. This is a daily and integral part of
cuisine and of social cohesion. That's a direct quote, and
I sort of love it. Social cohesion. Yeah, I love
that too. I love that too.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Harisa has gained a larger, more global audience in recent
years in part because of increasingly and I'm putting quotes
around this adventurous taste, with more availability, with growing affinity
for spicy foods, which we talked about in a recent
ISH episode, and with the help of popular celebrity chefs
(21:04):
using Harisa in their recipes. I do think, you know,
as always, it's worth remembering the point of view of
who's writing these articles because and for whom, right exactly,
because as you said, it's not new has been popular
for a long time. But I do think for people,
a lot of people who didn't grow up with it,
(21:24):
who for it is quote new for them. Sure, I
think that that people are getting more of a taste
for it. And hopefully, because I know we've talked about
the negative effects that can come out of that, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
We can we can do it in a more responsible way. Hopefully. Yeah,
I think I think fortunately, like peppers are easier to
grow like that that is a more prolific crop than
like quinoa or something like that that's more intensive than specialized.
So right, so hopefully we're not going to wreck anyone's
(22:01):
life by liking heresa, I hope. Yeah. And also right,
like I love that chili peppers are are adventurous right
in yeah some phrasings. Yeah, I mean it can be.
I mean like like if you find that adventurous that
I'm not nagging you at all, Like I mean, like
(22:22):
that's that's fine, Like we're we all have what we're
used to and you know what we try.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I think it was like I just saw that
in a bunch of places and also a bunch of
places bought up Jamie Oliver using harrisa that made me
that made me laugh. Okay, but I think it's like
that kind of food, you know, Food Network on television.
People are seeing more globalized cuisine that a lot of
times gets labeled as adventurous when it's just something they
(22:49):
haven't had for which again can be.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But yeah, yeah, I'm not going to tell you. I'm
not going to tell you how to have an adventure. Yeah,
that's up to you. Yeah, right, and like right through
the internet and all that kind of stuff where you know,
you might have more exposure through recipe blogs or whatever
it is that it is so yes mentioned on social media?
What is that twenty eight times an hour? Yeah, McCormick
(23:13):
spying on us again, they're in my head.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Annie, No, no, Laura, no oh.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We'll have to deal with that later.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, in the meantime, I think that's what
we have to say about Arisa for now.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think it is we do. We would love to
hear from you if you have, if you have experience
or adventures with it. We do have some listener mail
for you though already prepared. We do, and we will
get into that after one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you. Sponsor. Yes,
(24:01):
thank you, and we're back with the listener man like
a hug, Oh like a sunny hug.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah yeah yeah. Sam wrote today, I was listening to
the Blue Muscle episode and her listener mail referring back
to the Bach episode, which made me want to tell
you about one wildly popular Texas beer, Shiner back the Spezzel.
(24:33):
I could not find a pronunciation, but I'm going with
Schezzel Brewery in Tiny Shiner, Texas was hyper local for decades.
Their products were a Lagger, Premium and a Bach. In
the nineteen seventies, a group of Austin hippies took on
the task of popularizing Shiner. They were aided by the
ability to undercut national brands on price and college students
(24:55):
liking to have cheap beer. One famous picture of the
Armadillo World Headquarters beer garden from about nineteen seventy three
shows a sign with prices posted for Schlitz forty cents
a glass a dollar eighty five per picture, Budweiser same
as Schlitz, lone Star thirty five cents of glass, a
dollar sixty five per picture, and Shiner thirty cents a
(25:16):
glass a dollar fifty per Pitcher.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
The consequence of this was to get entire generation of
Austinites hooked on the local dark brown bock beer, an
affection that's persisted even though Shiner is now a non
bargain boutique beer at eight dollars to twelve dollars for
a six pack.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yes, I mentioned Shiner in that episode because that's what
my friend from Austin was like, You're gonna get a
pack of Shiner and you're gonna wait in line for
this barbecue. And I did it and it was great,
but I didn't I didn't go too deep into the history.
So this is really interesting about how it is. Oh,
absolutely solidified this reputation.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right right. Yeah. I do have a very like like
like oh, like that's a beer for fancy people, kind
of yeah kind of association in my head. And I thought.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
About again, we're circling in hopefully I'm playing D and
D again soon. I was looking for a bock and
I thought about getting Shiner bock. But it is it's
kind of expensive for what I considered not really yeah,
a kind of.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Independent beer.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I guess you could make the argument that it is.
But usually when I pay that much. It's not as.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Big, sure, shiner Bock is sure it's more local, but no, no, fascinating.
Thank you. Also right thirty cents a glass, heck Ben wrote,
I'm just listening to the back episode and you mentioned
the tradition with the hot poker. My grandmother apparently used
to heat up an iron poker in the fire and
(26:53):
then dip it into her guinness, which she then drank.
The theory went that this would cause tiny bits of
iron toke off of the poker and dissolve in the
guinness drinking. It would then help with iron deficiency. I
wonder if this is a tradition that has spread across
the world two different beers and people came up with
different explanations for it. I believe the tradition with guinness
(27:14):
is relatively well known here in Ireland. Huh that's interesting. Huh. Oh,
that is so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I hope other listeners write in about this because the
idea that you get tiny bits of iron in your drink.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That that are nutritious. Yeah, like this is a good
nutritional intake. Yeah uh, this is yeah, this is fascinating
the entire like warming up your beer with a hot
iron poker is also very fascinating to me because I
feel like for most beers, like coldness is part of
(27:52):
why you're drinking it though though certainly like cellar temperature
is a thing, but right, not like hotness though right not.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Heat yeah, groom temperature coolness in there, yeah, somewhere in
that range.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Fascinating it is.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I hope other people have some thoughts about this, uh,
because I would love to.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I've never heard I've never heard of this. No, no,
I do want to try it, though I don't want
to try it like right now because it's already warm
in Georgia. But next winter, yes, plan in the meantime.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, thanks to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you'd like to try it to us, you can
our emails hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts My Heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks is always to our superproducers, Dylan Fagan
and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
hope that lots of more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
any Rear and I'm more in vogel Baum. And today
we have an episode for you about Harisa.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Yes, oh, cravings. Oh yeah, well, uh okay, actually a yes,
cravings be to specify, we're talking about the condiment today,
not the porridge, which is a whole separate episode. See,
I say cravings, but this is actually something that I'm
(00:38):
not sure I have experience with. Oh, I feel like
I have to. I feel like I had to have
had it in stuff. Mm hmm, but I'm not sure
you're not sure.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
Well, it was funny when you suggested it, because I
have had a craving for Harisa recently. Oh, I've just
been on a big like I've wanted like a good
euro and hummus, and hummus often has like a swirl
of Harisa.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, then I've probably had it, But sometimes I avoid
the swirly ones because I'm afraid that it's sweet peppers
not spicy peppers. That's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
But a lot of Middle Eastern restaurants have Resa hummus.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All Right, I must have had it. Well, we can investigate,
we can we can and I can rectify this either way. Yes,
it's already on my list. It's already on my list.
Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
You can see past episodes on other hot sauces we've
done peppers and chili's that we've done.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Sarracha, okay sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
By the way, there is still a shortage of siracha
and I couldnot find.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Some the other day, and that is very upsetting.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
It is h Zaatar came up in a lot of
the research I was doing, and we've done an episode
on that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
So yeah, maybe paprika as well. While we're talking about
dried peppers.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But I guess this brings us
to our question. I guess it does. Harisa What is it?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well? Harisa is a type of all purpose condiment made
variably thick and variably smooth, with a base of seasoned, dried,
and or roasted chili paste. Recipes vary and involve lots
of personal preferences and flair, but the seasonings are often
salt and garlic plus warm, bright spices like coriander and caraway,
(02:44):
blended together with something acidic, and then some olive oil
to round out the flavor and the texture. So the
result is going to be a paste or sauce that's rich,
red in color, and anywhere from fairly mild to like
really hot. Uh. And it can be used as a
finish for dishes served tableside as a dip or spread
(03:06):
or dressing. Is sometimes mixed with yogurt or other stuff
like that, and is also incorporated into just all kinds
of savory recipes like marinades and stews. It's a roasty
and spicy, bright and hot, a little bit fruity and
sort of bitter sweet. It's just like a really good
balanced chili paste condiment, both both comforting and exciting. It's
(03:32):
it's warm on warm, like a like a hug in
the sun. Oh that sounds so nice, right right. I
don't necessarily like hugs. I don't necessarily like the sun,
but that just sounds very good. It does, all right. Traditionally,
(03:53):
harisa is made with with ripe, red hot chili peppers
that are sun and then reconstituted when it comes time
to make the mix. Sometimes smoked peppers are used to
to get a little bit of that smoky flavor in there,
but you can use fresh or fresh roasted peppers of
whatever heat level. You like. Leaving out the seeds can
(04:14):
also mitigate that heat level. And I have read opinions
about whether it's appropriate to have seeds in heresa at all.
I have you do you? Yes? Yes? The seasonings right, definitely, Garlic,
usually roasted, and some salt, Coriander and caraway often human powdered.
(04:37):
Dried pepper like paprika or cayenne might boost your flavoring color.
Some recipes incorporate florals like like rose petals or rose water,
or herbs like mint, which sounds so good. Heck that acid.
You're not looking in heresa for as much acid as
we put in, like vinegar based hot sauces, but a
(05:00):
little bit of lemon juice or vinegar will help balance
out the sauce. Some recipes also use tomato paste, and
because you want to get the most out of the ingredients,
you're often gonna toast the peppers, the garlic, and the
spices and then blend it into a paste with the
acid and enough olive oil to bind it together. This
is often done with either a simple mortar and pestle,
(05:21):
or with a meat grinder. I saw meat grinder in
a lot of places, as like the recommendation for getting
the appropriate texture oka. Yeah. Yeah, and that final texture
can be anywhere from thick and firm to sort of
salsa like and spoonable chunky to smooth. And when you're
(05:41):
jarring it, yeah, you pour a little bit of extra
oil on top to help preserve it in the fridge,
just kind of like a lock in all the flavor. Yeah,
all kinds of varieties exist beyond this, though. You might
add like lemon peel or preserved lemon, or herbs like
oregano or fennel or saffron.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
I had a friend make a dish that involved heresa
for me recently in the preserved lemon. She was telling
me all about like, how hey it was only a
tiny tone.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Oh okay, sure, because it ranks so much flavor it does?
It does? Yeah? Oh. I had some preserved lemon on
like a cheese plate situation that a friend made for
me recently, and I was like, I always forget. I
always forget, And every time I have preserved lemon, I'm like,
I need to Why do I not eat this every day?
It makes me so happy? It's so good. Oh. Anyway,
(06:36):
HARRISA is fairly easy to make it home but is
also sold jarred in stores, and these days it's available
as like a like a powdered spice blend flavor and
generally just as a flavor for prepackaged products. It shows
up in snacks like spiced nuts or beef jerky or olives,
in drinks like juice cocktails, and in frozen appetizes or
(07:00):
stuff like that. Wow and yeah, y'all, I got so
hungry looking at recipes that incorporate it, you know, like
it's great for tossing with vegetables before you roast or
grill them, or as a component of like a meat marinade.
(07:21):
You can use it to lay your flavor into a
grain dish like couscous or some kind of pulloff, or
any kind of souper stew or sauce or brazing liquid.
You can sub it in for ketchup and a meat loaf.
I mean, just put it on everything on the table,
I don't know, Mix it up with some more olive
oil and lemon juice, or with yogurt to make a
(07:41):
good dressing or a dip harisa ranch, I don't know.
Spread it on bread with goat cheese. Why have I
never put this in a pasta sauce before. I don't
know that on a lorn Herisa in like a mezcal cocktail.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Oh yeah, yes, so many options, so many things to explore.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
But what about the nutrition. Uh, it packs a lot
of flavor for a relatively low color punch. That does
depend on how much olive oil you're using in there,
but yeah, good, good spread of micro nutrients. Drink, drink
some water, eat a protein. Yeah. I thought you were
going to say drink responsibly, which I guess. Yeah, yeah,
(08:27):
drink here Harisa responsibly. Drink it responsibly.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I did read a pretty funny It was a really
anecdotal article about Harisa and there was one woman who
makes it, and she was joking about, like, you know,
don't put too much in it because it's going to
overpower every flavor. It's like a beautiful thing that comp
you don't need it to takes in her stage. But
also it might be hotter than you think it is,
(08:51):
so be careful.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was involved in the
recommendations for pairing it with yogurt to kind of tone
it down just a little, just a touch, just depending
on what you're going for exactly. Yes, well, we do
have some numbers for you, we do, okay. So, according
to Google Trends, a global interest in Herisa has been
(09:16):
spiking every January since twenty thirteen, which I read positive
on Serious Eats that this is like part of like
a January health food, clean eating kind of trend, like
how do I get more flavor into my food without
making it like too heavy? Huh? That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
I ran across that as well, and we are going
to talk about it a bit in the history section.
But I guess that's never been my association, but there
is the whole Mediterranean diet concept.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
Sure. Yeah. Yeah. McCormick brand, perhaps unsurprisingly, has been keeping
an eye on this, and they report pretty huge growth
of Herisa as like a flavor and or ingredient on
menus and in products internationally. Like, as of twenty fourteen,
(10:09):
they reported only ten like internationally available products mentioned Harisa
in their descriptions, but between twenty fourteen and twenty nineteen,
two hundred and thirty one products were introduced into that category. Yeah.
They also further reported that as of twenty nineteen, Herisa
was mentioned on social media twenty eight times an hour
(10:32):
on average. Wow, they know everything about Azlauri. I you know,
they do, they do.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I will say I was doing a brief like where
can I get Harisa near me?
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Search?
Speaker 1 (10:45):
And I wasn't aware that you could get like a
flavoring powder thing.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
But that was a lot of what came up. Yeah, sure, yeah, yeah.
Tunisia is the largest exporter, oh yeah, as of two
thousand and seven, and they were exporting some five thousand
tons a year to more than twenty countries. And that
was before the kind of big boom in interest for
it hit. At the time, they were producing a total
(11:12):
of over twenty two thousand tons a year. As of
two thousand and six, the amount of peppers that Tunisia
was producing for all purposes, including harisa was about two
hundred and fifty six thousand tons. Who yeah, Herisa is
the country's second most important canned food export, like monetarily
(11:37):
and in volume. Although I didn't see note, no one
told me what was first. I'm guessing maybe like olive oil.
Does that count as a canned product? I?
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Oh no, These are the thoughts that I lie awake
at night. I already have enough trouble sleeping. Move on,
all right, all right, all right?
Speaker 2 (11:58):
In Tunisia. Heresa is often eaten at least twice a day,
and the UN estimates that the production of it employs
around twenty five thousand people across the country.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, oh my gosh. Well, we do have some history
for you, We certainly do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break. For a word from our sponsors, and
(12:34):
we're back, Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
So, archaeological evidence suggests that chili's have been eaten in
what is now Mexico for thousands of years, and we
have talked about this in previous episodes, but just kind
of a brief refresher.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Yeah, that is where they are from exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
The Aztecs, Mayans, and the Incas cultivated them and used
them in all kinds of things. When Columbus, yeah, that
guy and others like him arrived in the Americas, they
took these chilies with them and spread them all across
the globe. Chilis and quote peppers because it was kind
(13:13):
of that spice associated with black pepper, So that also
adds to some confusion here. But they ended up in
all kinds of dishes because of this many that we've
talked about on this show, like Chilis spread far and wide,
and they ended up in all kinds of things. They
were in Asia, Europe, Africa, and the Middle East by
(13:34):
the sixteen to seventeen hundreds. And I couldn't get to
the bottom of this, or I couldn't find very concrete
evidence I.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Guess really authoritative source. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
But a couple of sources I found, and I did
run into this when I was researching this topic, suggest
that by the seventh century CE, the word harisa wasn't
used to refer to a wheat porridge with meat and spices,
and that it got that name because harrisa meant to
pound or to squash here referring to the pounded wheat.
(14:11):
But some speculate that when it comes to the sauce,
it did come from that, but it's referencing the pounding
of the chilies.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
Yeah, yeah, that was I ran across a lot of
kind of anecdotal or like related anomology to that. To
that end, and right that porridge, which is a sort
of creamy grain and meat dish, it actually reminded me
a lot of the polenta that we were just talking
about recently. But yeah, yeah, it's a it's a porridge
(14:40):
dish that's cooked low and slow for hours and is
not what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
No, but I did have to clarify with you because
I had not heard of this, and I was like,
oh wait, hold on, yep, wish.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Theresa are we talking about here? Now?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Where exactly Heresa the sauce originated from and what exactly
it was made of in its early days are matters
of debate. I'm sure that's no surprise. However, most seemed
to agree that it probably originated in North Africa, and
especially perhaps Tunisia, where they have been growing these peppers
(15:17):
since they were introduced there hundreds of years ago. Records
suggest that these peppers that were yes most likely red peppers,
were first imported to Tunisia from Spain in the sixteenth century.
People fairly quickly started to adapt them add them into
their cuisine, and by the seventeenth century at least possibly earlier,
(15:38):
folks were drying them in the sun, grinding them up
with spices and perhaps other things, and then making a
paste out of it and adding that paste to protein dishes,
to couscous dishes, other grain dishes, or even just spreading
it on bread, which sounds really good to me. The
resulting paste was so popular that it prompted the spread
(16:00):
of the cultivation of these peppers into nearby areas, and
this pushed up the protection in places it was already grown,
so people were excited about it, started growing more, started
to spread. Yes, a couple of things I found also
linked Jewish and Muslim people expelled from Spain in the
sixteenth century that settled in Tunisia to the growth of
(16:22):
these peppers and the making of the paste. It's kind
of confusing in the way that globalization is very confusing.
Oh yeah, But the theory here is that they were
perhaps trying to recreate something that they had in Spain,
which may have been introduced to Spain via Arab traders.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Huh okay, all right, yeah sure, sure, uh huh.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
And according to this story, at least, the paste was
pretty easily adopted into all kinds of traditions and cuisines
in the area because it met many conditions and taste
of the peoples in the region. This particular article was
describing a festival there that celebrates Harisa and its history.
So cool, yeah, yeah, yeah. If listeners know more about that,
(17:07):
oh my gosh, please write it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
At some point in here people started using harisa as
a say it with me. Yeah, I really like I
saw that mentioned in a lot of articles. I couldn't
again find great concrete evidence of it, but I'll put
it in here.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Because yeah, I feel like I feel like humans, you know,
that's what we get up to.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Like, yeah, yeah, they're like, hey, yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Meanwhile, the other ingredients that go into harisa, you know,
olives for the oil, those spices had been growing in
the region since way back, way way back. Yeah. Traditionally,
harisa is made, usually by women in the families or
the neighborhoods of the farmers who the peppers. And this
(18:01):
sounds like a party, like this sounds like a really
fun community event. Again, if you have personal experience or
familial experience, please please please write in. However, the rise
of industrialization and also dictatorships in North Africa during the
late twentieth century led to mass farming and centralized manufacturing
(18:25):
of herisa, often with poor working conditions. But since the
revolutions of the Arab Spring in the early twenty teens,
co ops have started popping up to improve the lives
and the livelihoods of small landowners and farm workers and
Haresa producers. In twenty fourteen, Tunisia created their own controlled
(18:47):
origin label for food products like this. It's sort of
like like a golden red sunburst design that'll say food
quality label Tunisia, and this is to guarantee like product
specifications and local production. This was in collaboration with the
UN Industrial Development Organization, which has also been helping get
(19:08):
Herisa out into the international market and has been supporting
some of those local co ops. There's one that I
kept running into called ERIEM, which is an all women
organization that as of twenty twenty two included one hundred
and sixty four women who were producing over four hundred
pounds of Herisa per day in their workshops.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
In twenty fifteen, Time Time magazine listed Heresa on its
list of fifty new.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Parenthesetes of all Time.
Speaker 1 (19:41):
Yes, so yeah, fifty new healthiest foods of all time,
which kind of cracked me up. But I guess also
goes back to what you're mentioning earlier, Lauren, with the
January resurgence of popularity of.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Us right right, and also like new is hilarious when
it comes to something that's been made for hundreds of years.
But cool.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Yeah, I always be careful with that. That kind of language,
is what I'll say. In twenty twenty two, Herisa was
added to UNESCO's list of Intangible Cultural Heritage, specifically in
regards to Tunisia.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Yeah. Yeah, Tunisia had sort of applied for this, and
there was apparently no argument, like UNESCO was like a yep,
application approved. This is a daily and integral part of
cuisine and of social cohesion. That's a direct quote, and
I sort of love it. Social cohesion. Yeah, I love
that too. I love that too.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Harisa has gained a larger, more global audience in recent
years in part because of increasingly and I'm putting quotes
around this adventurous taste, with more availability, with growing affinity
for spicy foods, which we talked about in a recent
ISH episode, and with the help of popular celebrity chefs
(21:04):
using Harisa in their recipes. I do think, you know,
as always, it's worth remembering the point of view of
who's writing these articles because and for whom, right exactly,
because as you said, it's not new has been popular
for a long time. But I do think for people,
a lot of people who didn't grow up with it,
(21:24):
who for it is quote new for them. Sure, I
think that that people are getting more of a taste
for it. And hopefully, because I know we've talked about
the negative effects that can come out of that, hopefully.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
We can we can do it in a more responsible way. Hopefully. Yeah,
I think I think fortunately, like peppers are easier to
grow like that that is a more prolific crop than
like quinoa or something like that that's more intensive than specialized.
So right, so hopefully we're not going to wreck anyone's
(22:01):
life by liking heresa, I hope. Yeah. And also right,
like I love that chili peppers are are adventurous right
in yeah some phrasings. Yeah, I mean it can be.
I mean like like if you find that adventurous that
I'm not nagging you at all, Like I mean, like
(22:22):
that's that's fine, Like we're we all have what we're
used to and you know what we try.
Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, I think it was like I just saw that
in a bunch of places and also a bunch of
places bought up Jamie Oliver using harrisa that made me
that made me laugh. Okay, but I think it's like
that kind of food, you know, Food Network on television.
People are seeing more globalized cuisine that a lot of
times gets labeled as adventurous when it's just something they
(22:49):
haven't had for which again can be.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
But yeah, yeah, I'm not going to tell you. I'm
not going to tell you how to have an adventure. Yeah,
that's up to you. Yeah, right, and like right through
the internet and all that kind of stuff where you know,
you might have more exposure through recipe blogs or whatever
it is that it is so yes mentioned on social media?
What is that twenty eight times an hour? Yeah, McCormick
(23:13):
spying on us again, they're in my head.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Annie, No, no, Laura, no oh.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
We'll have to deal with that later.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, in the meantime, I think that's what
we have to say about Arisa for now.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
I think it is we do. We would love to
hear from you if you have, if you have experience
or adventures with it. We do have some listener mail
for you though already prepared. We do, and we will
get into that after one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you. Sponsor. Yes,
(24:01):
thank you, and we're back with the listener man like
a hug, Oh like a sunny hug.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Yeah yeah yeah. Sam wrote today, I was listening to
the Blue Muscle episode and her listener mail referring back
to the Bach episode, which made me want to tell
you about one wildly popular Texas beer, Shiner back the Spezzel.
(24:33):
I could not find a pronunciation, but I'm going with
Schezzel Brewery in Tiny Shiner, Texas was hyper local for decades.
Their products were a Lagger, Premium and a Bach. In
the nineteen seventies, a group of Austin hippies took on
the task of popularizing Shiner. They were aided by the
ability to undercut national brands on price and college students
(24:55):
liking to have cheap beer. One famous picture of the
Armadillo World Headquarters beer garden from about nineteen seventy three
shows a sign with prices posted for Schlitz forty cents
a glass a dollar eighty five per picture, Budweiser same
as Schlitz, lone Star thirty five cents of glass, a
dollar sixty five per picture, and Shiner thirty cents a
(25:16):
glass a dollar fifty per Pitcher.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:20):
The consequence of this was to get entire generation of
Austinites hooked on the local dark brown bock beer, an
affection that's persisted even though Shiner is now a non
bargain boutique beer at eight dollars to twelve dollars for
a six pack.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Huh.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yes, I mentioned Shiner in that episode because that's what
my friend from Austin was like, You're gonna get a
pack of Shiner and you're gonna wait in line for
this barbecue. And I did it and it was great,
but I didn't I didn't go too deep into the history.
So this is really interesting about how it is. Oh,
absolutely solidified this reputation.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Right right. Yeah. I do have a very like like
like oh, like that's a beer for fancy people, kind
of yeah kind of association in my head. And I thought.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
About again, we're circling in hopefully I'm playing D and
D again soon. I was looking for a bock and
I thought about getting Shiner bock. But it is it's
kind of expensive for what I considered not really yeah,
a kind of.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Independent beer.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I guess you could make the argument that it is.
But usually when I pay that much. It's not as.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
Big, sure, shiner Bock is sure it's more local, but no, no, fascinating.
Thank you. Also right thirty cents a glass, heck Ben wrote,
I'm just listening to the back episode and you mentioned
the tradition with the hot poker. My grandmother apparently used
to heat up an iron poker in the fire and
(26:53):
then dip it into her guinness, which she then drank.
The theory went that this would cause tiny bits of
iron toke off of the poker and dissolve in the
guinness drinking. It would then help with iron deficiency. I
wonder if this is a tradition that has spread across
the world two different beers and people came up with
different explanations for it. I believe the tradition with guinness
(27:14):
is relatively well known here in Ireland. Huh that's interesting. Huh. Oh,
that is so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
I hope other listeners write in about this because the
idea that you get tiny bits of iron in your drink.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
That that are nutritious. Yeah, like this is a good
nutritional intake. Yeah uh, this is yeah, this is fascinating
the entire like warming up your beer with a hot
iron poker is also very fascinating to me because I
feel like for most beers, like coldness is part of
(27:52):
why you're drinking it though though certainly like cellar temperature
is a thing, but right, not like hotness though right not.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Heat yeah, groom temperature coolness in there, yeah, somewhere in
that range.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
Fascinating it is.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
I hope other people have some thoughts about this, uh,
because I would love to.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
I've never heard I've never heard of this. No, no,
I do want to try it, though I don't want
to try it like right now because it's already warm
in Georgia. But next winter, yes, plan in the meantime.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Well, thanks to both of these listeners for writing in.
If you'd like to try it to us, you can
our emails hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saber pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts My Heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks is always to our superproducers, Dylan Fagan
and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
hope that lots of more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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