Hefeweizen Up

This wheat beer owes its cloudy appearance and fruity, spicy flavors to the yeast(s) used in brewing it. Anney and Lauren explore the history and science of Hefeweizen.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio. I'm
Annie Reese and I'm more in Vogelbaum and today we
have an episode for you about half of Vison. Yes,
very excited about this. I got some cravings, got some cravings.
Oh absolutely, Oh my gosh. Right, as always with these,
A drink responsibly. Um and yeah, just I have many

(00:30):
fond memories of a half of Eisen. I feel like
it was one of those beers I found early on
that I felt was a quote safe beer to order
before I really knew I liked so much. UM. So
I have a lot of good experience I had. I
spent a good amount of time in Belgium and Germany,
and I tried so many alps and they were so delicious.

(00:54):
Oh that's amazing. I've never I've never been um, but
for sure it was a style that it that, Yeah,
I was very fond of right when I kind of
first started getting into beer, beyond like Jiggling, which I
think was the first the first beer that I sort
of found a tolerable um and uh and yeah, yeah

(01:17):
it was. It's it's just it's just nice. It's nice.
It is nice. And even though I felt early on,
I felt comfortable getting it, like I was genuinely aware
what it would be. There's a lot of flavor notes
that can happen in a half of ion. Oh absolutely,
like like any other style. Um, the exact brewing process

(01:37):
is going to greatly influence what you wind up within
a glass. And and it's I mean we're gonna get
all all all up into that in a second here.
But but yeah, no, I I oh, I love it.
I love I love seeing what breweries do and how
they write really tweak stuff just just just the way
that they want it. So cool, Yes, it is. It

(01:59):
is very cool, you know, listeners, that's one of our
very favorite things to talk about. Uh. And speaking of
you can check out all of our beer episodes, um,
there have been very many there an and also beer
video that we did with local brewery Orpheus, which by

(02:19):
the way, I happened to randomly find some of these
videos the other day and they are so cute and weird.
I recommend them. We were doing things, we were trying
some things, and I was like, I love this, very
very experimental. Yes, it was quite man, send me send
me those lengths. I'll try to post them on Twitter

(02:40):
or something, so then all y'all can enjoy. Yes, they
are very very fun. I thought, Yeah, what a what
a strange job? Okay, yeah, yeah, so right, so you
can check out all of that. But but does this
perhaps bring us to our question? It does? Indeed, half

(03:01):
a vison what okay, well, is a type of vice
beer that is beer made from wheat. More on that
in a sec. Half a vison specifically is hazy and

(03:24):
pale yellow to gold in color, with lots of bubbles
that give it a sort of like full soft feeling
as you drink it. The flavor is bready and a
little fruity, too, spiced with these smooth notes of banana
and maybe bubblegum or or vanilla with a little clove
or maybe black pepper. It's like, um, it's like if

(03:45):
perfectly light and fluffy banana pancakes were a beer. Uh
no syrup on those pancakes, that would be that would
be too much. Um. It's it's like subtle banana bread pancakes,
but not sweet in bear form. Yes, I think that
is an excellent description, because you know, I struggled to

(04:06):
describe foods, but I've often the banana note. I can
detect and a lot of heavisin And I've said it
reminds me of like a less sweet banana bread. So
we are on the same page. Yeah, yeah, Uh. The
name half of visin literally means yeast wheat and that's

(04:31):
most of what we are dealing with here. Okay, very
brief beer basics. Yes, to get a beer, what you
do is a slightly germinate and then roast or otherwise
dry some grains. That's your malt. Then you boil your
malt with water, and that's your word. Thank you again
Sheldon for that pronunciation. Note worked like work work word um.

(04:53):
And then uh, then add yeast in some way to
your work to get it to ferment. The yeasts eat
some of these sugars that you've released from the grains
through that germination and that boiling, and they excrete alcohol,
carbon dioxide. That's the beer's bubbles and flavor. So yeast food. Yeah,

(05:14):
and this is a pretty broad, simple template. And like
all the different ways that you can tweak that recipe
with different grains, different roasting processes, different yeasts or other
friendly microbes, different finishing processes, um, and adding different other
stuff at various stages of stuff like hops or fruit

(05:35):
or flavorings what will give you all of the wildly
different styles of beer that are out there. But okay,
back to vice beer. Um. Vice beer literally translates from
the German to white beer is a category of beers
made with a significant portion of wheat in the grain mix.
Anomology side note, the words wheat and white shares and

(05:57):
etymology like the proto Germanic root of wheat meant literally
that which is white. So there you go. That's why
it's uh not wheat beer but white beer. Yeah anyway cool?
Uh so yes uh. Vice beer is a category that
covers a lot of ground varieties include some stuff that

(06:19):
we've talked about before, like some wild fermented sour beers
like lamb Bi and Goza and Berlin advice um and
also Belgian wheat beer like hoe garden. When you're making
half of isson though, okay, traditionally at least half of
your grain is going to be wheat, usually more like
six and since you're looking for a a yellowish and

(06:44):
and relatively pale color in your finished beer, you're gonna
roast that wheat and any other grains that you're adding
barley being the most common, very gently um like, you
don't want them to darken up, so like a nice
clean pilsner malt is typical. Half of vison isn't supposed
to be particularly better, so you're also being gentle with
your addition of hops. You just want to just balance

(07:06):
the sweetness of the grains. Where you're getting most of
your flavor, though, is from your yeast and how you
treat your yeast. There are yeast strains that are traditional
to half of isison and other wheat beers because they
are known to produce these banana and clove flavor molecules,
especially when you give them wheat um and higher temperatures

(07:28):
than usual to live in. And another fun side note here,
not about etymology this time, Okay. The the yeast species
usually employed in beer making is Sacra mices sarah bzier,
and some strains of it can indeed produce these banana
and clove flavors. But there's another species of yeast used

(07:48):
in fermentation um pretty often in the wine industry, or
sometimes in the wine industry called to rule a spora
del brew ECKII. We're gonna go with that, yes, At
any rate, this the other type of yeast is also
super good at making those particular flavor molecules, and apparently
it's not always specified which you're getting when you buy

(08:11):
wheat beer yeast question mark question mark m hm Um.
I saw I saw a lot of like very specific,
like yes, this is as Sarah Busier. Um, but I
also saw some that were just like, I don't know. Yeah.

(08:33):
At any rate, Um, the whichever type of yeast you've
got in there, you're also partially depending on that yeast
to create the hazy appearance and the carbonation level of
the beer to make a really clear beer, something that
you could just see straight through. Um, you're filtering the
yeast out after they've finished working. So you are not

(08:56):
doing that here, because right you want it. You wanted
to to look look like a like a like a
glass of unfiltered orange juice. Yeah. Um. And for the bubbles,
you're probably also adding a little bit more sugar and
yeast to the beer when you bottle it, the same
way that you would with a sparkling wine. Um, to
give it a real good crisp pop of carbonation. Yeah,

(09:18):
this is a type of beer that's meant to be enjoyed.
Fresh within like six months or so of packaging and
uh serving wise. Sometimes, especially in America, helf of vis
and and other vice beer are served with a slice
of lemon or orange to set off the fruity flavors
of the beer and add you know, like like cute
little visual interest. Everyone likes visual interest. I think partially

(09:40):
because of this, it's sometimes considered a girly beer here
in the States. Um, I've read that. Meanwhile, it's got
like like Grandmama connotations in South Germany, UM, which is
where the style as we know it today is from.
I right in, let me know, yes, please, Yeah, they

(10:03):
are not served with lemon or orange in Germany, but
these types of beer are also sometimes mixed with um
with I think sparkling lemonade to create like a low
alcohol sort of beer cocktail called a rattler super tasty
so nice, yes, oh yes, indeed, Well what about the

(10:23):
nutrition drink responsibly? Yeah, I will say that this category
tends to be like low to mid in terms of
alcohol content, about four to seven alcohol bi volume. That's
seven is is rare, Like you're usually looking like right
around like like four four and a half to five
and a half. So yeah, not not very heavy, not

(10:46):
very sugary. Any sweetness that you're tasting in that beer
isn't really because it's a sweet sugary beer, but rather
because it's so not better um that the sweetness of
the of the grains comes forward. Mm hmmm. Uh. Well,
we do have some numbers for you. We have like
literally one number okay, um. Beer advocate dot com uh

(11:12):
lists two thousand, two hundred and twenty six examples of
the half of Vison style and its records. Okay, um,
And I will say if you're if you're interested in
trying one, um uh, if you're in the United States anyway, uh,
the highest rated that I saw in a bunch of places, um,

(11:34):
not just on Beer Advocate, but but all around the internet.
Um are interestingly to me, um, one very old one
and one very new one. So that that old one
being um V hence to Fawner half of ice Beer,
hence to faun being a very long running brewery in Bavaria.

(11:54):
And then uh live Oak half of Vison from Austin, Texas.
Oh yeah, that is a fun dichotomy. Yeah, okay, okay, Uh,
well that brings us to the history and we've got
quite a bit of it. Oh goodness. We always do
with these, with these beer episodes. But we are going
to get into that as soon as we get back

(12:15):
from a quick break for a word from our sponsor,
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. So
beer is old, I said, that's several several times. You
always like to throw in the fact, Lauren, we we

(12:37):
had beer before we had wheels. Yeah, we we created
alcohol before we created wheels. Not not like Annie, And
I like, right, you don't know, yeah, yeah, of course.
Now I again, I cannot say whether or not I
am an eternal vampire. So I will be impressed if

(12:58):
you'd lived that long as a vampire, or I honestly
just impressed with you, that's all. And beer is often
tied to our history with wheat and perhaps trying to
make bread like things. UM. So the oldest instance of
wheat brewing may have taken place ten thousand years ago,

(13:19):
and probably even further back than that. Um. People like
to argue a lot about beer. I bet that surprises
no one. UM. And some argue that because of this
wheat style, beer is one of the oldest styles of
beer in existence, and this was likely due to farmers
gathering grains and letting them ferment. It was kind of

(13:39):
this accidental thing that just happened because we're around before
we had even really domesticated those grains exactly, not us
the mysteries of histories, that's what some historians think. Uh.
Europe's history of the fermentation of wheat dates back to
at least eight hundred BC, eatsicly to Bavaria um and

(14:02):
from this it didn't take long for wheat based brewing
to take hold in Europe, though there were major ebbs
and flows of this whole thing. Um. Some say that
similar styles may have been brewed at the the hinged
to fun and or v hinged to fun. And I
told Lauren what to say, so if she got it wrong,
it's my fault. But this is just what I've always

(14:22):
heard brewery and tin forty c um undreds was when
it really started showing up in the historical record these
types of beers, especially in Germany where wheat grain was
fairly abundant. Um And as we've discussed in previous beer episodes,
there was a lot of taxation going on around beer
in Europe um and the same is true for help

(14:44):
of visance that's like a whole every time I have
to read these like tax documents about beer, in my
brain is just like no, can't, we can't do. It
is too much. It is simply too much, and I
think that it was designed specifically that way on purpose.
I I agree with you, I do. UM. According to
a few sources, the ruling clan of Dagenburger the Daigenberger

(15:07):
region of Bavaria where the first to commercially brew wheat
beers in that area, and they monopolize the business by
requiring a royal license for anyone else who wanted to
brew it, which I understand that they really didn't give
out so again making things complicated for people. UM. When
their line died out in the sixteen hundreds, that license
passed to Duke Maximilian the First, who sought to extend

(15:30):
the license to all lands in Bavaria UM and through
this the first vice brewery and Munich opened soon after
he took control. However, this is one of a handful
that we're operating in Europe over the next two hundred years,
and from what I understand, at least in the historical record,
was like the one of one for all the time. Yeah, yeah,

(15:51):
there weren't many. There weren't many. Um. But okay, let
us step back a bit to a huge beer event
we've discussed in a lot of our beer episodes because
frequently we're like, well, this style almost died out, and
this is one of the reasons. Yep uh, and the
reason being the fifteen sixteen German Purity law right height

(16:13):
skabat ryan he sat. Let's hope I didn't butcher that completely. Um.
Basically this prohibited the brewing of beers that used non
barley grains and additives, including wheat beers, in part for
safety and in part simply for control. UM. Bavaria adopted

(16:33):
this this law too, but a lot of brewers weren't
too happy about it because oftentimes the resulting beers were
low quality. UM. So some started to defy the law
doing their own thing, including brewing wheat beers. They had
something going in their favor to wheat beers were popular
amongst royalty. Uh, it's always good. So in the fifteen twenties,

(16:55):
a single brewery in Bavaria was allowed to brew to
brew this kind of wheat beer at first, um, but
the number did grow grow more than one. Yes, yes, However,
that period was followed by a declining and popularity of
these styles of beers, as dark loggers became the beer
of choice, and that declining popularity hit those handfuls of

(17:19):
breweries hard that we're making this wheat style beer. Um.
Many of them ended up closing during the seventeen hundreds.
That Munich bury that we mentioned it remained open and
continued to offer wheat beers, but at a much lower output,
and eventually it resorted to contracting out the brewing of it,
so they weren't even doing it anymore. Um. By eighteen twelve,

(17:40):
the number of breweries producing this style may have been
as little as two wo Yeah, I almost died out indeed. Um.
Because of this, the royalty that owned the license of
brewing Heap of Viisens, gave it up in seventeen eight
making this brewing style public. Several breweries began experimenting with
the style on smaller scales, offering it alongside more popular

(18:03):
options in Europe like loggers Loggers. At the time. However,
a brewer named George Schneider often gets the credit for
reinvigorating this style after he purchased a brewery in Munich
and really started pumping out these wheat style beers, allegedly
tripling the brewery's output. Um. So he was really into it. Yeah,

(18:23):
m h. When European colonists round to North America, the
heav of Vison style of beer came with them. However,
most say that the nineteen eighties, so that's a huge jump,
um is when American brewers really started testing the style
out um, which we've talked about in a lot of
our beer episodes as sort of this like craft revival

(18:44):
after Prohibition and those like really sugary cocktails of the eighties.
M h. Um. In n six, Portland based Bidmer Brothers
Brewing launched their heav A Bison style beer, and it
helped make sure that the heavy vison style how to
space as this craft beer movement in the United States
was revitalized. Um. And this this beer is often called

(19:08):
the start of the American heav A vison Yeah. Um.
And the wide Mere or Vidmir Brothers Brewery we're working,
you know, like with the equipment and the ingredients that
they had. Um. So the first American half of visin
were a little bit different, made with other strains of
top fermenting ale yeast um other than the traditional vice

(19:31):
beer ones um. And they were and so they so
they weren't getting, um, those kind of fruity flavors that
you expect from a half of vis and so instead
they were using carefully chosen hops to help add those
fruity flavors that that you're looking for. Um. So the
American styles definitely started out a little bit more like

(19:53):
bitter or or bracing or like juicy um than Bavarian
half of visin As the craft beer moved picked up, though,
Vice beer yeast became available here and so yeah, options
school are now Oh goodness, oh my goodness, yes, mm hmmm,
it's amazing how it went from here. Are these two
breweries that we knew of at one time too? So

(20:16):
many Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's a it's such an
interesting style to me because I think it has a
lot to offer. It can be such a beautiful beer. Um.
I mean not not flavor wise, um, it's just it's
just nice and kind of clean and crisp um, but
it has that haze and that little bit of fruitiness
and spiciness to it, and so like like I I

(20:37):
really like it, but but I think that right, it's
got this reputation as being either girly or like too
easy drinking because it doesn't hit you in the face
with hops um. And so you know, like and since
it's right less bitter, it's like, oh man, like that's
a that's a beer for inexperienced drinkers. Um. And I
guess you know, both of us were staying at the

(20:57):
top that it's something that we got into early on
in our exploration of the world of beer. So maybe
maybe there's a little bit of something to that. Like,
but just because something is like like for like okay
for beginners, doesn't mean that it's not good for everyone else.
Oh yeah, I mean I think there's a reason something
is easy drinking and that's not bout um. And also

(21:21):
like I love fruity elements. Yeah, not bad. And some
of the best beers I've ever had, even as a
more experienced beer drinker, have been half of vison um.
I think they can just have a lot of subtleties
and flavors and a lot of very interesting flavor combinations
um that are going on. And also like this might

(21:43):
be particular to me, but there was this kind of
guy who took me under his wing. He was a
big beer drinker. Um, really great guy, but I'm making
this sounds so much stranger than it is. He just
he really he was really into beer. And I contacted
him when I turned twenty one, and I was like,
what should I do? He loved hef advice, and so

(22:04):
part of that was for me as a new drinker.
He was just like, these are these are some are
really like and he still liked them even as an
experience beer drinker, but he knew that they were also
like approachable. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Cheers to that guy. I
still remember that. Thank you. Oh goodness. Um yeah, if

(22:30):
if y'all have any favorite favorite breweries of half of
Bison or other vice beer or of whatever or uh yeah,
any other any other personal experience with it, especially, oh goodness,
I would love to hear. I would love to hear
from someone who has experience hanging out in southern Germany

(22:52):
and and what the attitude towards these beers is there? Yes, yeah,
please let us know, because that's what we have to
say about help a Visor for now. It is. We
do have some listener mail for you, though, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we

(23:12):
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with me like bubbles Carbonation.

(23:35):
I your audio cut out immediately when you started doing that,
so I have no idea what it sounded like, but
the visual was good. Thank you. Yeah, I hope. I'm
sure it's interesting. I'm sorry. I'm sure it's interesting. They
usually are. They usually are. Well. I could hear you
and it sounded good, so we'll see. We'll see what happens. Ben.

(24:00):
I hope you're both doing well. Just finished listening to
the Doctor Who episode, which brought back a lot of
nostalgia for me. I haven't watched it in a number
of years, but we'll always remember fish fingers and custards.
I want to respond with a couple of things. On
the Guinness storehouse, the room you remember, Annie that's all
white with the smoke is the tasting room where they
explain the various ingredients, and the smoke comes from the aroma.

(24:22):
Izers may have that word wrong, as may I um.
They then give you a tiny glass of Guinness which
you take through to another room decorated to look like
Arthur Guinness's study and they teach you how to drink
a Guinness. The complimentary pint is given to you in
the gravity bar, which is the top floor and is
all glass. They have recently in early two. I think

(24:43):
double this in size and you can get a full
three sixty degree you across Dublin on the three days
a year when it's not cloudy or raining. So glad
to hear you both want to visit Ireland. And if
you need any more incentive, I promise I will get
my partner to make you fresh Guinness bread. Hers is
the best in my opinion, as she adds treacle which
makes it richer and cake here and it is so

(25:05):
good fresh out of the oven. I hope you both
can make it to the Emerald Aisle one day. Oh
us too, And I mean you're promising as bread get
us bread. That's like I mean I wanted to go before,
but there's bread involved, Yes, fresh bread. Yeah that does

(25:27):
sound that does sound really delightful. Um uh, thank you,
thank you for the extra details about I love I
love kind of goofy tourist and stuff like that. I
I really I really want to go to there. Yes,
oh I think we'd have a great time. I told
you I was really impressed. I was kind of like overwhelmed,
which I think is what they're going for. Okay, but

(25:49):
in a in a way that was manageable. Good, that's great. Overwhelmed.
But yes, I'm glad you reminded me of what that
because I remember the white smoke room, but I couldn't
quite recall was going on there. So thank you, thank you.
Oh heck uh, Swat wrote, I started listening to y'all

(26:11):
when the podcast started as food Stuff. In fact, I
found the podcast only a couple of weeks after you
launched it. In March of seventeen, I moved to Washington,
d C. From California to do an exchange program for
the spring and summer semesters. This temporary move was a
big deal for me, as it gave me the opportunity
to attend a school I had fallen in love with
three years prior, but unfortunately could not attend. When the

(26:34):
opportunity to do this study abroad came up, I jumped
at the chance to go back to a place that
made me feel at peace. During this time, I started
commuting to work every day because I got an internship
in the city. However, I didn't know how to occupy
the fifteen minute walk and twenty minute train ride. That's
where y'all came in. From the beginning. Both of you
kept me company as I commuted to work and got

(26:56):
a taste of what it was like to live in
my dream city. I had to leave to see to
go back to school in San Francisco, but I still
had wonderful memories. Both of you have kept me company
through graduating college, the pandemic, a new job, and a
multitude of adulty responsibilities. In fact, every time I heard
your voices it reminded me of the joy I felt
when I was finally in d C. I decided that

(27:18):
this year I was going to throw it to the
universe and apply for the MBA program at my dream
school in d c Lo And behold, I actually got in.
I packed up my entire life in California and made
the journey across the country. I am now writing to
you from Washington, d C. Where I finally get the
chance to go to my dream school, all while riding

(27:38):
a commute very similar to the one I had five
years ago. Thank you both for keeping me company through
the good times, the bad times, the hard times, and
the sad times. You both and the podcast hold a
special place in my heart because I associate it all
with the time and place that made me feel the
most at peace. Oh well, congratulations at something is congratulations.

(28:02):
That is so cool. Yes, yes, and that's that's so
lovely to hear. And I'm so glad we could have
been there for you and all of these times, um
and hopefully in the future. And we've always enjoyed hearing
from you because you've read several times you have and
thank you so good to have the update. Yeah exactly.
I love the time when you wrote it about our

(28:22):
burger episode and you're gonna talk about Bob's Burgers and
we talked about Supernatural but we did eventually talk about
Bob's Burgers. But yes, we appreciate you so much, um,
and this this update was lovely and congratulations. Yes, uh,
that's that's so good. You guys are doing so good. Yes, yes,
we appreciate you all and love you all so much.

(28:43):
Yeah um and yes, speaking of thanks to both of
these listeners for writing. If you would like to write
to us, we would love to hear from you. Our
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(29:04):
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