Interview: Agricultural Infotainment in Hawaii

Kualoa Ranch hosts cattle, oysters, cacao, Godzilla footprints, Kong bones, and tourists aplenty. We speak with Kualoa's Director of Diversified Agriculture & Land Stewardship about building a sustainable ranch among the bounty and challenges Oahu offers.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Favor Production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anne Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we
have an interview for you from Hawaii with with one
tailor Kellerman. Yes, and he is the director of Diversified
Agriculture and Lands Tourship at Kuilo a Ranch in Hawaii.
In Yes, Yes, And my phone just did the terrible

(00:34):
courtesy of reminding me that we were in Hawaii a
year ago. Yeah, it's it's a it's a year ago
this month. Um. Yeah. The first the first reminders of
that that I got were just so strange because they came,
you know, on day like whatever of me not showering
in my house right during quarantine. Um and uh so right,

(00:59):
what a what a heck? Indifference a year mix? I know? Um.
And I've gotten some advice to to look at old
pictures if you if you can't leave, and you're getting
kind of like, I've got to do something right right
right um. And a lot of them are from Hawaii

(01:20):
and a lot of them are from Coolo a Ranch
because we did take a lot while we're there, because
as we said in um, the episode where we heavily
featured Taylor. It was one of the most beautiful scenic
interviews we've ever done. Yeah, that was just a so
so so COOLO. A ranch. Um is this large property

(01:41):
out on a wah who that that is is used
for I mean, and we go into this in the interview,
but um, but there's a bunch of agriculture there, and
they also have a bunch of tours because it's been
used in the film industry to film a whole bunch
of different things, like, for example, one scene in Jurassic Park.

(02:03):
Um and uh. And so in addition to the interview,
Annie and I went back um during our off time
because we took off time weird and uh took one
of those film tours and oh the location is just
ludicrously gorgeous, just these tall green mountains and all of
these flowers and trees and plants, and you know, during

(02:25):
the middle of this interview, like like I keep getting
distracted because a it's just beautiful, but be like some
some of their cows were wandering through and like rustling
around in the bushes like velociraptors. Yeah, and it's uh
and and I hope that some of the soundscape winds

(02:48):
up coming through for y'all because it was so gorgeous. Yeah.
I remember after the interview was over, Taylor showed us
because he, if I'm remember correctly, he was near there
as well, and he showed us the picture of he
sees every morning when he wakes up, and it was
just like beautiful green mountains and water and valleys. And

(03:08):
I felt both so happy and just in all that
someone lives there and gets to see that every day,
and furious because it is so stunning. Yeum, but yeah,
yeah we did. We did the film tour and I

(03:29):
another thing they filmed there is Godzilla, which a regular
listeners will know I bring up on every occasion that
I can. And I watched that a few nights ago
on Netflix because yes it is on Netflix. Um, and
they had the big Godzilla footprint is still there, right,
yeah they did. Oh I'll okay if I if I

(03:50):
remember too, I'll try to post some some of our
photographs from from that on social. Um. I've been I've
been remiss in posting to social because there's so much
going on in current events with with Black Lives Matter
and with coronavirus that I honestly haven't felt like adding
a bunch of messages from a couple of white girls

(04:12):
about a food show has really been part of the
necessary conversation that's happening. Um. But but gosh, they are
beautiful photos and um and Taylor and everyone who ran
into a cool Oa were really amazing people. UM. And
they're they're also um, they're they're starting to open back
up right now, aren't they. Yes, Yes, as of now,

(04:34):
which the date is as we record this June. Very
impressive myself. Um, yes, as of today, they are starting
to reopen. Um. Some things are opening earlier than others.
But you have to prove that you've been quarantined for
fourteen days, which is good. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean,
if you are there and are interested, check out their website.

(04:57):
All the details are there. But yeah, they're starting to
you reopened some things. It's it's if you have a
chance to get out to Waho and you furthermore have
a chance to get to Coolo a ranch, I absolutely
recommend visiting. Oh absolutely, they They are not a sponsor
in any way. That's just me saying that. Just yep, yep.

(05:20):
But in the meantime, while you wait for that wonderful day,
we hope you enjoy this lovely interview. We like to
start these things off with just a nice, simple Hi.
Who are you? My name is Taylor Kellerman and I
am the director of Diversified Agriculture and Land Storage for

(05:43):
Coolo Ranch, Hawaii. Um, and that that's a neat little
package of a title. But but your job encompasses quite
a lot around here, doesn't it. Yes, So when you
look at basically what my responsibilities entail, we have quite
a bit of properties. We were talking about around four

(06:03):
thousand acres, so I am in charge of everything that's fun,
interesting and beautiful. So um, everything from all of our aquaculture,
livestock and agriculture operations, also our land stroodship and conservation,
and then landscaping and sustainability. So my umbrella kind of

(06:23):
covers everything that would involve resource management and anything to
do with how we do it, but heavily focused on agriculture.
Have you always You've been in a little bit of
research and development for a while. What was that also
having to do with agriculate Have you always been in agriculture? Yes, yep.
In fact, I graduated from the University of Hawaii on
the Big Island with a degree in tropical agriculture. So

(06:46):
I worked in the pineapple industry for a long time.
I worked in vegetables and greenhouse hydroponic production for a
long time, research and development with genetics for quite a while,
and then um, I started working here about four years ago. Um,
how did you know that you wanted to? I mean,
did you always know that you wanted to be in

(07:06):
this field? You know? It was funny because honestly, I
always had a garden as a kid, but I grew
up as a surfer kid and a surfer town right
down the coast, and my dad worked for a bank.
So it was really more of a I need to
find something I want to do. What am I interested in?
While I like growing plants, And then once I got

(07:27):
into the schooling side of it, and then the practical
application of a lot of things I was learning, then
it just from then on it was like, Okay, this
is what I'm doing. So from about eighteen on, I
would say, yeah, um, I'm twenty four. Now I'm kidding.
I had kids very young, five or six ten year

(07:54):
old old, you know, not agree with that it. How
have you been doing a lot of learning on the job,
teaching yourself on the job here. You know, the thing
about this place that's been really unique is that I've
always come from a situation where production value was key.

(08:18):
You know, Okay, let's take the resources we have and
see as much sustenance and food as we can produce.
Whereas here our economic model is as such that we're
duly supported by a diverse fight economy with events, um, tours, movies,
a lot of movies are shot here. UM. What that
allows us to do is not only do the agriculture

(08:39):
we wanted you to help support community, but then we
also get to do try a lot of kind of
new things. So when it comes on the job teaching
for this, it's really kind of twofold and number one
seeing it not only for the value of what it
can produce, but how sharing it with people can be
the most interesting experience in UM, it's i wouldn't say

(09:02):
more important, but just as And then also, UM, what's
been really neat is rather than oversight of one or
two crops, reproduce over forty here. So it's it's being
able to figure out all of that that's probably been
the biggest learning curve animal husbandry, agriculture, agriculture, I mean,

(09:25):
it's all different disciplines as well. So is this is
the first time you've been working with amis it is? Yeah?
So when I applied for um this job, it was
funny because you know, they sit down and you have
you have agriculture experience, yes, because I was worked in
the past. Do you have you know agriculture, yes, conservation yes?
How about cattle? No, it is I but I am

(09:47):
willing to learn. And what's interesting is that I have
always considered myself that, you know, oh that's cool, but
I'm I'm more of a plant guy. And it is
incredibly a ding and appealing and to the point where
my son, who's ten, is now, I mean, that's what
he wants to do. He's I mean that's he comes

(10:08):
to all the brandings. He's we've got cows and pigs
and sheep at my house. I mean, he's it's it's
really it's really cool to watch and learn through his eyes,
because it's just such a great way to see the world,
you know, when you kind of see it through those unabashed,
you know, unopinionated eyes. Exactly. Kids are fun like that.
I to suggest it at some point, Yeah, this this,

(10:31):
this might be a weird question, but it just popped
into my head and I can't help myself. Which is
which is more like opinionated the plants are the animals
or maybe the ocean the aqua you know. So it's
a really good question. Actually, aquaculture is the scariest because
it's the quickest one you can screw up. Agriculture is

(10:54):
the most responsive to your actions and the most predictable.
Livestock I think is in a weird way, the most
comforting in the sense that you actually have response from
the other end, you know, because a lot of times
because we do a really cool system of raising heritage
breed pigs in a deep litter systems so that there's

(11:17):
no wastewater or anything like that. And uh, I mean,
they recognize your face, they know who you are, they
know who my kids are. I mean, it's it's just
incredible to be dealing with something that reciprocates personality, you know,
It's it's really interesting. Yeah. I haven't hung out with
any pigs, but I've heard that they're great. They're way smart,

(11:39):
super super smart. Yeah. I've always heard that. When you're
going to go yeah, okay, yeah, whatever you say, and
then you you do it for a while, and it's
incredible how intelligent they are. So cows not so much,
but they're really cool, but that it makes some fun
at the same time, like go over here, they look sure,

(12:01):
no problem UM has UH has getting into these uh
into these different areas. UM changed the way that you
eat definitely? UM, you know, I was definitely I cut
my teeth on industrial commercial agriculture, and I definitely, to

(12:27):
to a degree, will still defend that type of agriculture
simply because there's so few of us who produce food
that there is a need for a certain type of
efficiency that just can't be gained in some of the
other UM disciplines I've seen. But what's really opened my
eyes is that the way we've been doing it can
definitely be improved and modified. And I think the mentality

(12:49):
of embracing nature as a partner and a friend rather
than a medium for you to do your sterile work
in is definitely long since past my mentality. And I
think over here doing as much diverse crops as we do,
I think when now I go through the grocery store
and and and with my kids and my family and

(13:11):
my wife, you really embrace and have perception of what
went into all of that, and and I hate to
so boxed a little bit, but it's kind of like
one of those things where they always talk about stick
to the outside of the store. It's the middle that's
not really really it's true. I mean if you start
looking in I I even even at some of the

(13:33):
quote unquote healthier stores. I mean, you know, your body,
there's another difference between refine beach sugar and dehydrated cancerrup.
If it's the second ingredients, probably something you should look at.
And I think having the ability to to show my
kids how things are raised bring that home has been huge,
to the point of with animal livestock, there is that

(13:55):
you know that thing was standing. Yeah, so define only.
There's been a huge impact on kind of how I eat,
particularly through with like what you do with your family,
because it's easy to make personal decisions, but when it
comes to making decisions for others. Could you could you
break down a little bit about what each of the

(14:16):
departments that you that you work with here does. I
like hesitate to call them different departments because it seems
like they're all probably closely they're inter related. They are. Yeah,
so you know I'll start ironically with our land Stardship department.
So you know, we are just about dred acres a
little bit over about undred of that is in permanent

(14:37):
rainshed management, so undeveloped, unforested, unpastured on anything. And so
we manage that just like you would another area of
the property in the sense of you know, there's certain
target species we do for invasives that have really detrimental
environmental effects like Albisia trees and things like that. There's

(14:57):
certain species that we want to promote native species that
will propagate and and outplant um by perian managements with
stream Health Spring Health. We a lot of our water
comes from these mountains, you know, so anytime you want
to have a robust ecosystem within your farm and your property,
if you have the ability to manage your range, that's massive,

(15:19):
so we take it very serious. We actually have eight
full time employees that are full time conservation employees. Our
live stock department, we are grassbed grass finished. The production
We're not huge only we only process about eight ten
animals per month, but it's enough to support our community
around here. Um and then we also do a heritage
breed pigs and um, sorry, I think that's a pig

(15:43):
up there. We have wild pigs in there of or us.
You can hear it walking around here. That interesting. It's
probably gonna come down and focus out cast um. And
then we do some sheep also, but right now we're

(16:05):
still figuring that part out. Aquaculture, we're actually we're really
well known for our oysters, so we are the only
grower of commercial um oysters on island. And then we
do shrimp Pacific Gulf shrimp, and then we also do
finn fish as well. As far as agriculture, our primary

(16:26):
crops are orchard crops simply because it allows us to
do more with less in regards to human resource because
that's a real difficult thing. You can talk to year
Off about that. But we do mostly breadfruit, which is
very popular over here, a lot of taro which is
very popular over here. We also do a lot of um, papaya, banana,
and then cacao. So we do make our own chocolate. Um,

(16:49):
that's one of our biggest crops right now. Um. The
Hawaii chocolate movement is a really good way for people
to have a value added product that helps support their
regular food industries. And then we do about twelve different
kinds of vegetables and about twenty different kinds of tropical fruits,
so lots of stuff. But that's but that's um better

(17:11):
for hypothetically better for the land, isn't it though it
is monocrap yep. So what what we do is even
within our you know, our igoras are kind of broken
up into geographic locations, so we have three in each valley,
and within those we do ten or twelve different crops.
And what that allows for is um enough diversity in
flora and fauna that you know, really there is no

(17:34):
bad insect or bad fungus, or bad weed or bad pest.
It's just when a single species is allowed to build
up enough of a population to become detrimental to what
you're trying to do. And almost every species in the
world is controlled in some way in nature, whether it
be by allocation of resources or pests or or or

(17:55):
predators or things like that. So if you've got about
diversity within your area, nature should control itself. Which is
a good example of where my mindsets certainly changed with
how from one of how I was taught many years ago,
because it used to be just spray it and now
it's like, oh, we don't need to spray it, just
have other stuff around and then you know, then you know,

(18:17):
you get a good symbiosis of populations and nothing should
ever build up too much. I have the feeling that
that is not what a lot of people mean when
they say organic these days. You know, we're not certified organic.
And it's funny because people always ask me that, and
and the honest to God truth is we're not. I'm

(18:39):
not planning on pursuing it either. I have nothing against it.
It's something that I don't speak prulier about it at all.
I try to offer context once in a while, in
the sense that when you see the term organic source
it is it coming from a marketing or is it
coming from the producer. It's coming from a producer. It
actually has a value to it. It's coming from a marketing.

(19:01):
Take it with a little bit of grain of salt,
because it is used as a as a monetary metric
these days for price increase. And so the way I
look at it is I coined this really cheesy terminology
called responsible agriculture, which just means when making decisions, you
hold the environment and health of your customer first and foremost,
So that way, you're you're not necessarily because there's there's

(19:23):
economic methods that you can use organic ingredients for that
there are alternatives that might even be better for the environment.
I'm not saying what they're doing is bad. I'm just
saying it's all relative, you know, So that's kind of
we try to look at more. Okay, let's look at
it as a whole environmental approach rather than just I'm

(19:45):
gonna niche myself here and do what this requires. So
thank you for saying that. That's why, like like organic
is a little bit of a marketing phrase. Is a
thing that we yea, we we try to. It's such
a buzzword right now and so many people I think
that it's helping right well, and it's it's all about

(20:08):
so so you can you can raise plants and animals
in an organic way that passes Army certification, that still
has irresponsible impacts on certain parts of our environment. That's
that's just a fact. And I'm not saying people it
means it's doing it. I'm just saying it goes both ways.
So I think, really, I think the slow food movement

(20:29):
is a really cool concept because you're just looking at I.
I much rather buy something I know is produced down
there than some of you that was certified organic from Norway,
just because conceptually, I feel like that's really more how
I would want to move forward. So, yeah, we have
some more of our interview with Taylor, but first we
have a quick break for words from our sponsor and

(21:00):
we're back. Thank you sponsor. Let's get back into it.
Can you can you talk a little bit about the
about the tourism and and uh do you feel like
it's like entertainment, Like that's that's what I And you
know what's funny is that it's a forced enterttainment. I've
never heard that before, and I'm putting that in the
mental roll of X because that's really funny because it's

(21:20):
very true. Because entertainment is another is another good one.
You know. What it is is that we have a
lot of cool things that people like to do here.
We do zip lines, you know, things that have a
small footprint. Um, so let's think of things as like
a minor or small environmental footprint in a large economic impact, right,
zip line, horseback control, a TV in the sense that

(21:43):
you're not just go ride, tear up everything. It's on
trails that we maintain and things like that. But while
you're here, we're going to force you to learn a
bunch about agriculture. So you know, good example, you guess
see Jumanji, right, the new Jumanji, So the antain the
transportation shed where they do like dance fighting. I just
know this is My kids love that movie. So we've

(22:03):
repurposed that building, moved it. It was filmed here in
the back of the valley. We took the whole building down.
We instead of destroying it. We that's what are our
piggeries in now. And so when you're gonna go on
the movie site, you were to learn about all the
movies like Jurassic World and Jumanji and thirty First States
or whatever. You have to pass through whatever bag areas
to get to all these things. And in that time

(22:24):
we're gonna teach you a little bit and hopefully some
of it sticks. I'm sure in some cases. In a
lot of cases it doesn't. But it's it's just that
step by step nature of everything, you know. But it's it's,
you know, the tourism side, the hard part about Hawaii.
And I'm sure you've heard this. If you you that
many people in Hawaii. The economics of agriculture, I'm sure

(22:46):
has come up. And anytime you're growing things on piece
of property that's worth well more than what you could
ever grow, you have to have some sort of dual income. Um.
Some people do it by value added, like Kohana Rump.
You know, they've got a really cool concept. By the
way that building that their tasting room is in um,
I used to get my hair cut there by the

(23:07):
plantation store owner that used to run that store, because
I used to work in the pineapple plantation right there,
so years ago. Tangent. But if you want to be
economically successful, you have to look at ways to increase
your bottom line. And you know, growing a raw product
and selling it to a producer is not really viable

(23:27):
these days in this state at least. So do you
take your pods and take it all the way to
craft chocolate? That's one way to do it. Do you
take your seven varieties of Hawaiian sugarcane and turn it
into craft rum? That's another way. Do you take what
you're doing and share it with people that want to

(23:47):
come in zip line on your property, It's another way.
So that's kind of how how we look at it,
so forest infotainment and m dual economy. You know, it's
into just thing because we have these beautiful pastures in
these beautiful valleys and everybody's, oh my gosh, this is
the best pastures ever. But typically in Hawaii, the prettier

(24:08):
it is, the mostly less productive. It is because our
grasses are not very high in nutrition. So if you've
got a monocot like this that like it's all one variety.
It's so when pastures look like this, as weird as
it seems, this is some of the most productive ground
we have because you've got fourteen different species in there,
and so as far as crew protein and nutrition, it's

(24:30):
going to garner more from this area than it would
in that really pretty rolling hills. That's great. Have you
guys worked with any dairy at all. No. Yeah, the
dairy and issue is huge when I was younger, but
unfortunately the last dairy in the state just shut down
about two months ago. Oh my goodness. Yeah, it's it's
just there are certain products that it's no matter how

(24:54):
you sit down in pencil of the numbers, it will
be cheaper to bring it in on a ship. Well, Yeah,
that's a shame one of my favorite yogurt dairy producers
in Atlanta to shut down as years. Um, so just
just strange, Like, I mean, it's such a good product.
And I guess at a certain point, yeah, you know, ironically,

(25:16):
a lot of our paranoia and no ongoing waist soul
box and might I should probably stop myself. A lot
of Americans paranoia and food safety creates a regulation system
that's actually antagonistic towards small producers, which is tough. Yeah,
that was probably being a hard one. Oh yeah, absolutely,
um and thanks to uh to the mobster right for that.

(25:37):
Al Capone he was one of the first Americans who
really pushed for rules around milk, specifically concerning like babies
and stuff like that. It was it was part of
him getting into the pockets of local politicians. Okay, yeah,
because the whole legalized rob milk movement. Yeah, we have
something called legalized pai, which is a type of food

(25:58):
that you make with your hands that same exactly. So
it's just an ironic bumper sticker. My whole life is
an ironic bumper stare. Um, are there are there any
specific weird I mean, we we've talked a little bit
about about some of them already. But but but are there

(26:19):
any specific food industry agriculture weirdnesses around around legal issues
in in Oahu or Hawaii? You know. I think the
main thing is the food safety. Um. You know, it
comes from a good place, and it's meant to be
a good thing to have a uniform system of food

(26:40):
safety regulation and processing and in packaging. However, being that
it does impact the smaller people, um, it's going to
be getting all of those small producers up to speed
in an already kind of hectic economic environment and now
it's like and you've got to put this in, you know.
So it's kind of one of those things. But luckily
there's been a en of people who have taken upon

(27:01):
themselves to create nonprofits around teaching and implementing systems for
the smaller farmers, even if it's kind of like more
of an aggregator function in the sense of, Okay, we'll
take your products and then we'll do the post harvest
because we have a facility that meets physmic standards and
all that kind of stuff. So that's that's I think
really the only thing that's based around that. Everything else

(27:24):
I think is just I think we're we're we have
a lot of support around local food movement, just as yes,
I'm sure you guys do as well. You know, there's
a there's a good system of people that will pay
a little bit more like I always think of America
is funny in the sense that as soon as there
is money to be made, it will rise to the surface.
And I feel like there's enough people who care about

(27:46):
where the food comes from and care about what um
goes into it that now all of the big guys
kind of jumped on that bandwagon, which sure it's for
commercial reasons, but who cares. It's it's really in the end,
what's gonna what's going to kind of help out the
little guys? So yeah, like we'll take it, yeah exactly.
Um what what what? What is it like being part

(28:07):
of the community around here? You know, we're not very
big and so um like, I'm I'm fairly certain I
probably would know everybody you guys interviewed. Yeah, right, yeah,
And you know the neat part is is that you
guys did the show in North Carolina, right, Nashville show. Okay,

(28:28):
So I actually equate us with North Carolina a lot
because they have tobacco, we had sugar and pineapple. So
you have these huge, huge infrastructures and tracts of land
that or monocraft for a hundred and fifteen years and
then they just left. And so now we're left with
a lot of people who maybe want to be food producers,
but number one, either they don't have the experience or

(28:49):
it's just getting that model functioning. And unfortunately in North Carolina,
the things that I've looked into is a lot of
the tobacco money, the litigation money was used to kind
of create infrastructure around that, and we didn't necessarily have
that injection of funds, but we have had a lot
of support through some of the younger you know, our
our our government slowly changing in the sense that the

(29:10):
age group is changing. And I feel like once you
start having representatives and council members who have that same
kind of age group mindset as um as twenty year olds,
and then then then things start to change. So I
I think that that's going to be key, and I
definitely feel like it's it's it's moving. We also are

(29:31):
all so small. I think we all realize unless we're collective,
So I'm really fortunate to sit on a a nonprofit
on the board, as the president called the Agriculture Leadership
Foundation of Hawaii a l f H just and we
do a leadership program every sixteen months that's supposed to
create leaders within the industry. And then we also put

(29:53):
on an EGG conference every two years. And there used
to be a lot of siloing of the groups. Um
like if you guys run into another states like I'm
more organic than you are, like really weird, like you know,
like battles between and it's just this oddest thing in
my opinion. But anyways, we we had a little bit
of that, like you know, the Holy Farmers Universus, the

(30:14):
Farm Bureau and all that kind of stuff. That's definitely
been broken down incredibly in the last few years because
I think everybody's realized, holy craft, we need to we
need to work together or else this isn't gonna happen.
So that's been really cool. Yeah about that. That is
that is awesome. Um uh for human nature winning out

(30:35):
over that other thing. Um yeah. No, we were talking
to to Senator Cruz yesterday. Donovan's awesome. Yeah, yeah, And
he's a good example of somebody who's doing the aggregator
over in Whittemore, you know, and he's he's he's kind
of driving his crew of homies, you know. He's got
a good crew of younger guys, and and he's he's

(30:55):
clearly looking out for Central Law because that's his district,
you know. But he's the Whitmore project he's doing with
a d C is a very good example of helping
small producers get through the whole safety regulations. Right, yeah, yeah,
he was talking with him. It seems really cool. How
have you how have you seen the island changed since
since you grew up here? So funny question I could.

(31:18):
I'm gonna restrain restrain myself. Um first and foremost, I
want to preempt anything I say with the fact that
I am a supporter of everybody and anyone who wants
to be positive in this world, because I really have
seen how people how hating has gotten really popular. So
I always trying to say I'm not a hater. This

(31:40):
is my observation. Tourism in the military of the biggest
economic charge of this island. Tourism is changing, and that
has changed the entire dynamic of this island because tourists
no longer want to sit at the pool. And I
think that's true with everywhere. V v R, O, UM
and particularly Airbnb have changed in the sense that I

(32:01):
want the authentic experience, and when you want an authentic experience,
you are now going to be sharing or competing for
resources of residential communities, which is fine, but it's changed.
And um that has changed the Sybum the most by
far because you now have that coinciding with being able

(32:22):
to drop points. The landscape of the island is now
shared the way that it didn't used to be, which
is okay, but it's definitely just changed things. I mean,
that's how I leave it. I wouldn't say bad or good,
but all of our infrastructure, values and all of our
systems to support tourism haven't caught up yet. So it's

(32:45):
created a little bit of issue in that sense. So
but um that coupled with the fact that all of
our plantation agriculture has gone and UM, so you you
you really just have kind of a changing landscape altogether.
But I think it's true for everywhere. I don't think
it's really unique. Yeah, I think I think everywhere we've

(33:07):
been anyway, just the you know, cell phone like smartphone
era uh, and and all of those uh disruptor businesses
have just caused Like I think in the long term
it's going to be okay, But right now it's like
that part of a traffic jam where everyone is just
sort of like, what is happening? I think it's going
to work out. And it's funny, you know, because and

(33:28):
I made that preventing conversation because it drives me crazy
when I when I hear people, oh, you know, they're
they're in my town and all this sort of stuff,
and I'm sitting there, I'm going, you know, I'm pretty
sure your dad moved from California. Why can't they come here?
You know, used to say that you're we call it
the last man in syndrome, you know where it's just
so ironic because why shouldn't everybody be able to come

(33:49):
into its place? Right? It's beautiful? Why Why are you?
Why are you part of this lead group? I don't
get it. Um, So it's just doing it correctly, and
like you said, I think it's just it's a little
confusing right now. Social media has also created a way
to have those haters have a collective words, which has
been interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but again, I don't. I'm

(34:11):
not negative towards it, but I am looking forward to
when it settles out, which it will, I know it will.
So yeah, do you happen do you happen to know
anything about the history of ranching in Hawaii a little bit? Yeah? Yeah, so, um,
it's actually incredibly ingrained in our history because you know,
the first cattle were brought to Hawaii by Captain George

(34:34):
Vancouver and late seventeen hundreds as a gift to you know,
one of our first monarchs that you know, was able
to get everybody together, so comm the first and they
actually put a kapu or like a taboo I guess
is a like English word on it, and they were
let to roam free. And then, you know, fifty years later,
all of a sudden, the impact of the environment was

(34:57):
quite clear. So they brought in um Spanish backados, which
was mispronounced and what eventually became paniolo, which is the
term for Hawaiian cowboy, to teach Hawaiian's how to handle
cattle and horsemen, horsemanship and things like that. And by
the late eighteen hundreds, Hawaiians had become so adept at
it and so good at it that they were going

(35:19):
to Wyoming, and there's stories of Mr Purdy going to
the Wyoming Rodeo in nineteen o six and winning the
whole thing, you know. So there's a huge history behind it,
and you know, ranching has become part of the landscape.
And so I am very fortunate to be a part
of something that's been going on for a couple hundred

(35:39):
years now. And it's something that I think that you
when you talk about preserving open space, Honestly, ranching in
Hawaii is more prevalent in that sense of the word
than agriculture these days, you know, and I don't not
that ranching is not a regular land egg. It's still
very alive and well most of the ranches, you know,

(36:03):
a lot of the ranches these days are getting back
into finishing animals here. It used to all be you know,
be for the state, and then economics made it as
such that most of the operations became kew caps and
we would send all our caps to the main lass.
That's still pretty prevalent a lot of areas big on
in but um it's definitely started to shift back into

(36:24):
a more local production. So can I ask, can I
ask what you you and your family eight when you
were growing up, what we wanted to eat, but what
we did eat. You know, it's funny. So as I'm
sure you've heard from a lot of people, you know,
our culture and our cuisine is very based on multi

(36:44):
ethnic um scenarios brought on by plantation labor. There's a
lot of nicer, more prolific ways to say it, but
it's just we had you know, Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Portuguese, Caucasian, Hawaiian,
you know, all of that kind of thing. So we
probably eat rice with every other meal. You know, that's

(37:08):
one thing. And like my kids blows their mind to
go to the mainland and not have um chili served
with rice when you get the crackers, they're like, what
the hell is it? But we, you know, we we
ate a lot of things that I think someone from
the mainland would find normal and a lot of things
that would seem more um Asian influence and a lot

(37:30):
of my dad was wearing raised here UM and my
grandfather moved here in so my dad's very heavy into
um harvesting things from the ocean. So we had a
lot of you know, things that we caught growing up,
and um, you know, foods expensive here. So having two brothers,

(37:50):
you you find those dishes that you proteins usually this much,
your rice is this much, and you have a little
bit of vegetable. But I definitely can say I'm raising
my kids a little differently when it goes back to
one of your questions earlier, So because I think a
lot of a lot of what we ate was also
just I just feel like health is a little more

(38:12):
of a concern these days. You know, amount of preservatives
and things like that. Oh yeah, oh it seems like
you guys have I mean again it's expensive but wide
wide bounty. Yeah, yeah, lovely things. Um, what do you
have like an average day? What does your like schedule?

(38:35):
So I get to work at four or thirty in
the morning, Um, and that is because I can do
emails and silence. Um. How I do have an office
down here, we're right kind of by where we met,
and then I have a total of about forty seven
people that work for me. And then luckily I have
some strong managers you know in between that kind of

(38:59):
oversee each department. However, Um, we're really short people right now.
So if you know what everybody wants to work in
a cool place. So right now I'm managing to those departments.
So right around seven I will go and head out
and and in all honesty, a lot of it just
has to do with the two areas that I'm short managers.

(39:19):
I I go and I meet the crews there and
make sure they have their daily activities. One is our
livestock department and one is one of our agriculture departments.
A big part of what I do is drive around.
And I know that kind of seems stereotypical, but there's
a real reason for it, which is, anytime you work

(39:39):
in a place that's this large, and any time you
work in a thing that's this diverse, you're typically pretty focused.
And that's good. But I have to be the person
that not only sees the whole picture, but also has
the context of everything, you know, because not that I
mean I am no difference in intelligence than anybody I
work with. How Ever, I'm just a little more informed

(40:01):
on the bigger pictures simply because of the executive meanings
I attend the fact that I report directly to the
owner that you know what I mean. It's that kind
of thing. So a lot of it is um inspecting
what I expect, resetting expectations, and then helping guide vision
and then helping produce resources. A lot of the people

(40:21):
I work with are younger and um newer to the
farming and agriculture scene, and a lot of the problems
they're running into I ran into like seven twenty four
times before, just because you know what I mean. So
you just kind of identifying and working with them and
offering advice and stuff like that. But I I end
working around four formally, and then I pick up my

(40:44):
two sons and then we go back and we I
usually save fun stuff, like right now, um, one of
the sites I'm managing. In fact, we're doing this right
after this. We gotta go cut bananas, harvest bananas for
some of our deliveries tomorrow and for the as papaya
turn on some irrigation. So save the fun stuff for
the kids. Well, I'm very lucky, and my kids really

(41:06):
loved this lifestyle, so they're super into it. And then
ends around six and then starts all over again. But
it's fun. You do it because you enjoy it. So yeah,
sustainability of the State of Hawaii, it's a very relative term,
and I try to get that all right, I'm going

(41:30):
on in you you you hear it spoken about within
people outside of the industry as a very definitive, black
and white thing. We will never be able to sustain
the population of this island. We will always need importance.
The more we can move that needle, we're succeeding. There
will never be an endgame. There will never be a

(41:51):
point where we are sustaining ourselves. And our imports are
just the things that you know can't be produced. And
I think the thought process behind that is um feudal.
And the thing that worries me once in a while
is is I think politically they they it makes such
a good story that the drive is on this way
end of the spectrum, and I just really wish it

(42:12):
was a little more of a realistic term because even
the governor put for something that you know, increasing Yeah,
I mean, it's it's not it's not going to happen,
you know. But but the kind of thing that I
think comes down to is um is you've got to
have goals. If you don't have goals, you can you know,

(42:34):
move forward. I think that that's kind of where we
come into play, that we are essentially in what could
be considered a food desert. I know that's ironic, but
when you think of the closest grocery store, that way
is twenty minutes. Same for this way in Hay that's
a long drive, right long drive. So we do have

(42:56):
a small retail outlet here that we sell things out
of that you know, seems kind of rinky dink, but
the amount of stuff we run through there is huge,
and I think it's just people in the neighborhood. So
the more we can do that type of thing where
we're supplementing and we're giving people options, that's the real goal.
I think. You know, um, when it comes to the mentoring,

(43:17):
I was a big brother for a long time, so
this is a big brother shirt and I always look
at it as that's where a big part of the
BAG Leadership program comes into play, because we have a
lot of people who want to get into farming that
don't have farming backgrounds, and I love it and I
encourage it, and I think it's amazing. And one of
the first things that they struggle with is the realism

(43:40):
of it, because I think you really need to talk
to people and work with people and get them involved
in do you want to do you love farming or
do you love the idea of farming? Because it's two
very different things, and um, I think that you can,

(44:01):
through good mentorship, transition one into the other, Whereas if
you just throw somebody out and let them hang, they're
gonna probably give up pretty quickly, you know. But it's
hard because I'm also considered, I think, kind of a
hard ass a little bit simply because um, I've been
around long enough now to where it's my job to

(44:21):
set expectations and if we're not being met, then we
discuss them and then reset them and give every opportunity
to you know what I mean. It's like, we're not
there to come down on people. You're there to make
sure people know what they're supposed to do, and if
they can't do it, then you coach them and that
kind of thing. But I don't know, maybe I'm just
getting older. That guy I've been told I'm really good

(44:43):
to work for if you like to work, which I
was like, I don't know if that's a compliment or
I'm not really sure, but yeah, yeah, but mentoring is
really really important. I had some incredible mentors when I
was younger, and they made all the difference in the world.
And like you know, you know, we all have those

(45:05):
moments that you can recall in early adulthood where you're
those concepts clicked for you, whatever it is, you know,
like those times you're like, oh, I totally am going
to process that and keep it going. UM. Most of
those came from my mentors, not my parents, you know.
So mhm, We've got a little bit more of this
interview for you, but first we've got one more quick

(45:27):
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, and back to the interview. What can
consumers um and you know, up to an including like

(45:48):
like restaurateurs UM, due to help people like you don't
come with a list. I think that's the best thing.
And I think that's even true for restauranteurs is and
and you know, as a restaurant here, I can see
why this is a difficult ask. So I completely appreciate

(46:10):
how it's a difficult to ask. But a producer, even
when is diverses us is never going to have everything
you want if you've already made your menu before you
contact us. So the ideas worked the other way around. UM,
I think it's the same with consumers. Don't come with
a list, see what you have. You know, I know
I've heard stories of c s A is being a

(46:31):
difficult for people because they just don't know what to
do with the stuff. So it's up to us as
producers to help with that. Also, you know, some people
put their Rescipe cards in and things like that. So, um,
I feel like the initiative and the desire is already
there to work with local producers. Um. I feel like

(46:51):
when it is more difficult and sometimes the challenges, people
just kind of go on. You know, I'll go because
it's so much easier to just go to wholesaler because
you just say, I want ten points of this five
points that boom comes to your door. Everything, But local
producers you gotta go to this guy, and then you
gotta go this guy. This guy doesn't have it, so

(47:12):
you gotta go this guy. Recipes gotta change. You know,
it's more difficult, but if you can find value in
it in your restaurant, economically will work out. But as
far as the home consumer goes, I think, just like
I said, be be open. Yeah, yeah, so right now
I'm really I like chocolate and coffee. Can you tell

(47:33):
I want to talk about it? They're pretty good things
to The chocolate thing is really cool because chocolate so
so when you think about value in in product, right,
you can either grow something no one else can grow.
You can grow it in a region or a geography
that you can claim to NAPA. You know, whatever um

(47:58):
or you can in um value adds something, right. So
in Hawaii, we we you know, we don't really have
a lot that you could really say is specific to Hawaii.
You have Coola onions, Jula sweet Maia onions, and you
have Corner coffee. Those are two very good examples. Chocolate
is the next one because people really really like it

(48:19):
because there is some sort of um. The industry is
really taken to where it's a brand industry that's just
going craft direction. So it's kind of neat. There's no
intent to be a commodity chocolate. So it's been it's
been really interesting. You guys remove how to make chocolate. Okay,
so the fermentation processes, I'm I'm still learning, but I'm

(48:40):
the main fermentor for us and we're doing about five
to six thousand bars a year, so we're not tiny,
but we're definitely not big in the least sense, but
we really want to start looking at um seeing if
we can take it all the way to the end
as far as the being to bar portion, and then, uh,

(49:00):
I just I'm really excited about learning new things that
I never thought i'd learned before, because we're now looking
into trying some agriforestry, which is something I never thought
i'd be into. But you know, kind of looking at
areas of land that may not be that are actually
kind of like this, and do we you know, figure
out ways where we can put a bunch up in

(49:21):
there and do the story in the canopy and that
kind of thing. And I think the most exciting thing
I have going right now is that I just hired
on two new people, which is super fun because there
are new managers and their new people that like are
are on the younger side, super hungry, and I have
like the coolest locations that they get to manage and
all these cool projects, and so I get super peeked

(49:47):
up on like starting off with somebody who's really just
kind of I don't know, and then within a year
or two they're cranking. To me, that's so cool, and
you know that with that being said, you also have
to be open to letting him go, you know, Dove.
So those are really kind of the main things I

(50:07):
think that I'm pretty excited about. And our piggery is
pretty new, so that's really fun. Yeah, we got to
talk with them. Dylan butter Ball, so he makes alive
us chocolate right now. Dylan is awesome. Jimmy Tamer to
his wife. Yeah, Timer's Timer is she is amazing. I

(50:29):
was so Dylan this because it gets weird. Dylan, Timer
and I all grew up in the same town. Um,
I know his dad. His dad also is the architect
for part of this thing that I worked. Anyways, long
story short, they're awesome. We own to the same high school.
I'll be many years apart, but they're killing it and
they're Talcolate's fantastic. So we take our giant beans to

(50:52):
them and they make In fact, we were just going
to see him next week. So and it's it's a
really I mean because Timer's sister works there and Dylan's
brother works there in I mean, it's it's it's such
a neat thing to see. That's the kind of thing
like when you when you take your beans in and
then you they you know, it's pay for service, so
I pay them per bar and then we get the
bars back and it's just such an that's the kind
of stuff I think. It's cool. We every time we

(51:14):
have to go external for something that we do, we
always try to stay on the east side of the
wall first, just because it's supporting your community. So yeah, cool, Yeah,
that fermentation process is really fun. It's super cool. That's yeah,
that's that's always my favorite part about anything. You get
to just talk about start talking about bacteria or east poop,
I'm like, yes, totally, I mean and and there's so

(51:35):
many little tricks to get the seat of bacteria to
kind of really I never fermented before. And I called
three of my really good friends, one of them being Dylan,
and asked him a bunch of questions and then I
spent like six hours on YouTube and I did a
really bad job on a few of them. And then
every time you just get a little bit better, you know,
So and I'm still a total infant, but it's so

(51:57):
much fun. Yeah, yeah, And that's one of the same.
It is, like, you know, it's always cool to pick
up pineapple and share with somebody. But when you're like,
I got chocolate, Um, what we usually like to wrap
up by asking you what questions we should have asked?
The shouldn't ask her if there's anything that you would

(52:19):
like to speak to you that you have an adopted.
The soap boxes you want to pull over, I got one,
And then this isn't something you should have shouldn't have asked?
I don't said that. This is just something that I
would I would always like to say. Remember, we talked
about small batch craft production, which is what I consider myself.

(52:40):
And then you talk about commercial agriculture. You talk about
the outside of the aisle, inside of the aisle, you
talk about corporate egg versus small farmer um. We are
fed by a commercial corporate agg system that is now
basically a require meant in the United States because we're

(53:02):
a two percent or less of actual food producers versus
non food producers. That was driven by a consumerism mentality
that was nobody's fault. That was over seventy years, you
know what I mean. So it's it's not like somebody
decided this is the way it should be. It was
something that was very you know, so it's a very
large ship it's a very big, big ship, and you

(53:25):
can't make a ship just go and turn all the
way around. And I really find sometimes it upsetting when
certain things are villainized. Yeah, they probably could be no
doubt they could be improved upon, no doubt there's things
that should be changed, no doubt that we should be
collectively voicing our opinions to help that change. But I

(53:49):
really really think that if you don't work in food production,
be a part of the positive change. Don't villainize and
tear people down because it doesn't help anything. I think
that's my soapbox because it's just really odd. I've never
figured that out. Because I'll be the first one to
say that we do need to change how we produce, allocate,

(54:13):
and distribute food in this country, no question about it.
But let's do it through positive change, collective movement, identifying
these things and then helping, whether it be with your dollar,
your business, if you're a banker, if your landowner, whatever.
But I really like to avoid the that's wrong and
this is right, particularly when it's very niche and very

(54:34):
um black and white. You know, I think that's kind
of kind of my thing we have to saying over
here because if you're if you're maybe it's a saying
other places too. But um, if you grew up here
a lot of people you go at night on the
beach with flashlights and you catch sand crabs and it's
really fun. Right, we did it last night. Actually, we

(54:55):
call it crabs in the bucket because you you'll see
as you'll see a crowd that will kind of get
to the edge and you see how the other crowds
trying to drag him down. You guys have that saying too.
We call it crabs in the bucket because we just
you know, don't We don't want to be crabs in
the bucket. We want people to rise to the surface
that are doing the right thing. We want to let
people change happen in a positive way. But you don't
need to put yourself in a more positive light or

(55:19):
an improved situation at the expense of someone else. I
think that's kind of my thing. I never can figure
that out. Just doesn't seem cool. This is some seemed
like one thing to do, So yeah, that's my mom.
I am as delighted by the phrase crabs in a

(55:41):
bucket this time as I was the first time hearing it. Um,
that is so wonderful. Yeah, what a and and and
just what a great sentiment. Um. Yeah, I mean I
mean for humanity in general, but but especially during troubled times,
you know, just trying to trying to help help people out.

(56:01):
That's what it's about. Yes, yes, absolutely, And if we
can be a part of that for you listeners, we'd
love to be. Um. You can email us. Our email
is Hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and
Facebook at savor pod, and we do hope to hear

(56:22):
from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For
more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to Taylor for talking to us,
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.