August 2, 2019 • 37 mins
Some serious engineering is required to bring us to space -- and to bring us really good barbecue. We chat with Dr. Howard Conyers about how he applies his knowledge of each to the other as a rocket scientist and barbecue pitmaster.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Savor, a production of I Heart
Radio and Stuff Media. I'm Lauren voc Obam, and my
irreplaceable co host Annie Reese is out this week, but
we have for you today an interview that we did
around our New Orleans trip with one Dr Howard Knyers.
We didn't actually get to meet up with Howard while
we were in New Orleans, but we caught up with
(00:27):
him on the phone afterward. And Okay, Howard his day
job is rocket scientist. He is an engineer with NASA
at the John C. Stennis Space Center. He tests rocket engines.
He's also a barbecue pitt master, which is where you know,
the part where we interviewed him for a food show
comes in. Um. He grew up in South Carolina with
whole hog barbecue, which we've talked a little bit about
(00:49):
on the show before, back in our Asheville episodes. So yeah,
Howard bends his skills and talents in engineering to barbecue,
to to designing an educating with barbecue rigs. He once
famously designed and implemented a whole cow barbecue, which is
a feat. There's video, It's incredible. Yeah. He's also the
(01:13):
host of a PBS video show called Nourish Um, which
in their own words, is a show about food, what
it says about who we are, where we're from, and
the ties that connect us. And yeah, yeah, it's it's
a video series where there's two episodes a month and
they they explore uh, just the people in the culture
and the science behind food, which um, yeah is a
(01:34):
thing that we here at Saber perhaps obviously behind. So yeah.
So uh Howard is is based in New Orleans and
we we absolutely do that. We had to interview him
on our journey there. So yeah, I'm gonna let Pasted
Lauren and Annie and Howard take it away. So yeah,
(01:56):
I like to I like to start these things off
with a with a kind of official him. Who are you?
Hi'm notot the Howard Conyers Um a pit master who
also is known as the rocket Scientist, like an actual
rocket scientist, Yes, like a real rocket scientist that pays
the bills, not one of those fake rocket scientists. New Um,
(02:21):
how did okay? Many questions stemming off of that first thing, Um,
how how did you come to be a rocket scientist?
I want to board people because this is a food show.
But nine years nine years of education all the way
from growing South Carolina and public schools when in North
(02:41):
Carolina and t and study and follow environment engineering and
then I went to do university and got a PhD
and mechanical engineering. So that's how I became a rocket scientist.
For our start working with NASA and UM and you
started doing the pit master thing. Because being from South Carolina,
you you grew up with some whole whole hog barbecue. Yeah, yeah,
(03:02):
that's growing up that's what barbecue was. Whole hog. I
learned from my father when I was a young a
young person. We didn't have a restaurant, but that's how
I saw the whole hale barbecue tradition. Could you talk
a little bit about about that tradition that you grew
up with, Like like what was what was a barbecue?
Like a barbecue was like um, fourth did July, Christmas, Thanksgiving,
(03:27):
we will start with with slaughter hog. We invite our
family or we have like a big family gathering. We
had had a lot of uncles where I was from,
I had now uncles and they had had a lot
of first cousins. So we have a big gathering and
that gathering would have barbecue that was generally the meat
of choice, um, and that's where we will cook before
(03:51):
that dinner. The next day, we will start cooking barbecue
that night, or we'll starting slaughter the day before. But
it was kind of something embedded in the community. A
lot of families cook barbecue before for their family gatherings.
It wasn't just my family, and so we have barbecue
restaurants with a lot of us. Did it generally at
home use a technique that was fast down. Then we
(04:14):
were doing at church for like homecoming celebrations where the
church anniversaries um. And so that's kind of how that
tradition came part of my life very early. How did
you get back into into doing the whole hug once
you moved out to Louisiana. When I first moved by
in New Orleans, you know, you get home sick. In
(04:34):
New Orleans is a great food city. And when I'm
boved here, they claimed they had they said they had barbecue,
and they a couple of places had Carolina barbecue and
their menu, but when I tasted it, it wasn't Carolina barbecue.
They didn't do the little things. They didn't well, they
didn't do a lot of things to make Carolina barbecue,
and so like that kind of motivated me said, you
(04:56):
know what, if I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna least
do something to U show what what Carolina barbecue as
I knew it was. And so they had this barbecue
fund Regel Halls to calls that it was a good
cause to get behind where they were raising money for
kids with brain cancer. They could barbecue, and I said,
you know what, that would be something I will do
(05:16):
to try to see if I share what I know
about barbecue Carolina barbecue. Yeah. We we talked to um,
one of our interview subjects whose name I'm forgetting completely
right now, in a barbecue restaurant in New Orleans. Um, so,
is there kind of like a resurgence barbecue over there?
Is there are people getting back into it? Um? I think.
(05:41):
I think people are getting into it and they're trying
to adopt other styles of barbecue, because of New Orleans
has its own like grilling traditional. I don't necessary barbecue,
but they call it barbecue. But I use barbecue very mean,
whole animals, whole hall. But they used barbecue to do
like smoke sausage or ribs or port steaks. But the
(06:02):
barbecue city, New Orleans is going upunt our resurgence because
I believe this thing called halls for the calls and
also along with the national trend of like I hate
to say it, Texas barbecue. I'm gonna say moder in
Texas barbecue, not old school Texas barbecue. I'm gonna saying
moder in Texas barbecue. Um is. Uh. We're kind of
giggling over here in the background because there's there's so much,
(06:25):
so much inter barbecue community shade that happens, um And
when you said Texas barbecue like that, we were like, oh,
is there is there literal beef involved? Uh, it's no beef.
But like East Texas barbecue reminds you a lot of
the South. There was cooking pits, direct heat pits until
(06:46):
the probably the seventies, where they're starting to indirect spoken
stuff they're they're known for these days. It wasn't it
wasn't really. I mean, Daniel Vaughan have wrote ostensively on
like how the pits looking Texas at one point, but
now everybody associated barbecueit Aaron Franklin and the Mula family
and to see but um too is only one I
(07:07):
think it's still using the drake he pits, but everybody
else is using something that was started by the Mula family.
Oh that's fascinating. We're gonna okay, that's a whole separate
avenue of of of question. But getting getting back to
so um, how did you? How did you get involved
with that? Nourish? How to kidding with Nourish? What a
(07:29):
great show. But they wanted to do a documentary on
my story. And after I was in Denver, Colorado for
this fan called Slow Food Nations two years ago, maybe
maybe a year ago this time probably a year ago
a little over a year ago, and the producer was
there and they wanted to do a documentary and he
did a documentary, asked me, what a long story short,
(07:50):
would you consider hosting a show? And I say sure
if I get to go interview the subjects and share
something line knowledge of what I thought something and culture
all about. Yeah, And it was digital. So like for me,
that was exciting opportunity because it's a lot of I
saw digital as the way of the future with food shows,
I mean, I mean just media in general, and it
(08:11):
was an opportunity to kind of explore what that was
all about We want people to go watch the show obviously,
but um, but could you talk a little bit about
what what you've learned from your guests on on on
that show. What I have learned from my guests on
the show is just like how similar we are across
(08:35):
the South, but also like Southern food isn't much more
than what we think about. It's a lot deeper. And
I would say one of the things I learned is
like to travel food. When you start looking at like
when I had I had the opportunity to talk to
David Shield Dr David Shields from the Carolina Gold Foundations
then South Carolina, just understanding the journey of like say
(08:58):
something that simple as corn like a guinea flint cord,
starting Cuba and then work their way back to West
Africa and then come back to the States. Or looking
at the UM, looking at the rice, uh, the upland
rice seeing with the Americans, UM seeing it in the
Seattle as of Soccerrolina and then going to Trinidad after
(09:21):
War eighteen twelve. Understanding those kind of nuances that travel
food is very fascinating. And then when you when people
start coming to new places, they still try to bring
a part of them with them, because that's a the
food dish may look a little different, but the roots
of it are a lot are the same. In many cases. Absolutely,
(09:44):
we we we heard we heard New Orleans be described
as as like like the South is north from there,
like as being the highest point in the Caribbean rather
than the you know, a point in the South. I
would say New Orleans is very a different city from
the rest of the South. Um it's it's really a
different city from the restaurant state. So the international city,
(10:07):
I would say it's definitely the northern most Caribbean city.
It has a lot of people they say that statement,
but they also understand why it's the order of both
cities in the United States the others. The others start
thinking about the Haitian Revolution and who owned the territories
at certain time before New Orleans became part of the
United States, And when you understand that, you can understand
(10:28):
why there's just white people say it's that Caribbean connection,
because there was a lot of countries like Haiti and
the people from Haiti and the sugar came and who
owned what at certain times with France having territories in
the West Indies and with New Orleans, with Louisiana before
the Louisiana purchase and everything. So that's the reason this
(10:50):
thing is a Caribbean has that so much a Caribbean field.
Do you feel like you're you're you're a you're a
solid part of the food community there now? Um? And
and if it's so, if not, then but but if
it's so, um, I guess what was it like being
part of that community? I mean, I guess I'm a
(11:13):
solid part in a way, but I'm I have a
have a unique perspective in the food community. I mean, like, yeah,
I have a solid party to say, But I can't
say the food community pays my bills. But what I
what I could say is the knowledge base I bring
to the food community and the conversations are looking at
the African American food ways in New Orleans and the
(11:36):
contributions of West Africa and New Orleans across the South
has made me part of the food conversation. And I
know sometimes people those took the African American community as
well as the indigenous communities are often overlooking Southern foods
and being a Southerner, I think I was raising the South.
I wasn't raising the north, So I don't I see
(12:01):
it a little bit different because this is all I know.
I don't know. I don't know what it was like.
I don't think of like for me, I don't hardly
ever use the word so food because I don't I
never knew what that word was until I went to college. Wow. Yeah,
uh huh um has has has learned it about food,
(12:21):
taught you more about science, it has um. Really, what
I really like about the food thing is I think
people don't realize how much science is in food, and
we're newish. I was hoping to bear to do some
of that. Like we were talking about grinding grits. Nobody
would think there's a friction as a factor of friction
(12:42):
and making sure it came I mean making grits or
heat dissipation or viscosity. We're thinking about barbecue sauces, or
thinking about thermo dynamics with using the pit versus occasion
micro wave with a coppacina or something like. So there's
a lot of in technology involved in the cooking process.
(13:03):
And I have learned that when I was going some
of these restaurants and they start using the induction um
burners Like that's really fascinating to me as a person
of a science because you need a certain type plot
maybe from a certain material for that principle to work.
So it's super fascinating. We do have more of our
(13:23):
interview with Howard, but first we're going to take a
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, and back to the interview. So you
you grew up on a farm. Yeah, correct, and you
(13:47):
I've read that you directly credit growing up on a
farm with you becoming a rocket scientist and getting into
STEM in the first place. Could you could you talk
a little bit about that. I agree with that I
wouldn't be a rocket scientists without growing on the farm
because I've seen the real applications of science and technology
(14:08):
and engineering and mathematics on the farm. For instance, let
me give you example. We were trying to put up
this barn and as an engineer, you have you can
have like cables, and you're trying to use cables to
help pull something up and support things temporarily until you
get amounted securely. And we use a lot of engineering
(14:29):
principles to help get that. UM, I guess you would
said that being in place, but our rafters and getting
raftors in place. So seeing things like that early on,
or understanding about Furti Lizars. You're seeing like Furti Lizars.
They say, oh, what is a tin? Tin? Tin? Like
what is that in the science cash when they're talking
about nitrogen or fosterus and potassium. But people on the
(14:55):
farm might said it's called soda or liquid soda in Harmonia,
but that's all it was. But it wasn't They didn't
use the word nitrogen until in the school. And you
look at what I think the modecule ammonia. Ammonia is
like in age four or something like that. I believe,
going off memory, it might be in agh three. So
please don't shoot me. But you look at those compounds.
(15:18):
You look at those chemical compounds and not really understanding
what they mean, but you understand. I put it on
my crops, my field gonna turn green. I mean, if
you get enough road to go with it, they're gonna
turn really green. And they don't have a weed problem
in this field. So I mean, like you see all
those nuances are applying like organic chicken newers to the field.
(15:38):
Like what was the benefit of that versus a synthetic fertilizer.
I mean, that's I've seen so much science going and
I sound very poor. I was very fortunate to have
a really hands on application to understanding the sciences. I
mean a lot of people in the city, especially living
in New Orleans, they don't get the opportunity to have
those hands on exercises. But that's all I had. I had.
(16:00):
All I had was hand on exercises. The book was
just a kind of reinforcement life farm was a lab
and you you went on to kind of apply these
mechanical engineering that you learned through school to make a
pretty cool uh pit right, designed a pretty cool things. Yeah,
(16:25):
which which pitt you're talking about? You talking about the
cook a cow? No, but talk about that. I want
to know about that now. So so I didn't ask
this question first, how many times have you heard anybody
cooking cows in this country whole coal? Zero times? So
(16:51):
I had this crazy well that it wasn't really crazy idea.
Also side, it wasn't crazy, but a lot of history books.
When I started researching barbecue and they're talking about how
I cook barbecue, they start saying, they start having the
references to cooking whole cows. But nobody in my community
could hold cows. And I have seen or I talked
my father about cooking cows like, no, I hain't never
(17:13):
heard of that. You're talking some craziness. But I had
to show him. I had to show him in the
article or some books like it cooked house cows. To
my wife from concerts, she said, I need to cook
a cow, so I cook the cow. So I had
to design and engineer a pit that ham through this
massive I guess beasts so I could cook them. Because
once I once you start the cooking process of a cow,
(17:34):
you can't really touch them and it's not like flipping
a pig. So we for like six months of my life,
four months of my life, I started designing and building
a pit. When I came with the concept of sam
cook cow that I knew I had to start building
something too bad to handle this, And I put like
about four months of design time and offer on to
(17:57):
go into coming up with a concept to cook this
cow out and do all my bases, all my checks there.
For two months we started building and I can't take
credit for building the pit. My father built the pit,
but I went to Cyncrolina twice back to the shop
to do some building and do some checkouts. My verifications
that we was on better flip and rotate this cow
(18:18):
doing the cooking. So that was pretty unique, if you
would That's where I would say rocket scientists collided with
being a pit bastard. If people want to say we're
cooking colloid, where Howard Kanygers cooking collide with that? I
would say cooking the cow without any instrumentation, without any
(18:39):
I didn't use any thermometers, And that's where the engineering overlap.
That was the intersection. And I can't say that I wasn't.
I was impression on how it came out. Oh my goodness,
what was it? Was it delicious? Was it was it?
Every everything is juicy and wonderful as as a as
(19:01):
a whole whole hug. It was better. The history book
said it like this, and this was I'm gonna give
your give you the opportunity to kind of see if
you can imagine this. The histories book says this was
the best barbecue you can have. But imagine taking for
my beef lovers, not my vegans, and meeting all your
(19:21):
favorite cuts of steak in one or two bites. Ah
and and I just both went to a place. Oh
all right, that's how, that's how. We'll just drive it
all your cuts some beef, your favorite cuts of steak
(19:41):
in one or two bites. Was that like a one
and done thing? Will you ever do that? Will you
ever cook a whole cow? Agod? I don't know it?
Maybe it I don't know that that was. I mean
I had the capability now, which is always a plus,
and he with for me the capability. I have the capability,
(20:05):
but I don't know do I have to. I mean,
like I will do it when it makes sense, but
I think it's not something you do every day. Um yeah, yeah,
it was a lot, but it was a very unique
experience I did with it. Um. But like for me,
I have at this point, I have cooked every animal
(20:28):
raised in the American South on the farm, just domestic
cook a turkey, pig, lamb, goat, and a cow hole.
And I have cooked in the pits above ground as
well as below ground. I don't know what more I
can do it that moment. I suspect you'll think of something,
(20:50):
and it's like anybody we to do buy and say
they want me to cook a whole camel or something,
or or Australian cooking kangaroos, something different with state side.
I don't, but you could. The reason I say that
you're laughing, but when you go into other cultures, other
cultures eat what they have available. And so if I
wouldn't want to cook something that they wouldn't eat, I
(21:12):
raber cook something I think they will eat, but maybe
put a South Carolina barbecue perspective to it so they
can get it, so they get a taste of what
their plan to get. But with the food that mean
something to them culturally, right of course? Yeah, um do
I do? NASA folks like to cook, they do. Um,
(21:37):
I don't know how much. I mean, everybody like to cook.
Everybody like to eat, so I mean everybody likes to cook.
Do you all ever have like office potlucks? Yeah? I don't.
Sometimes I don't really cook that with your potlucks. Sad
to say, I just I'm lazy. I don't. I cook
(21:58):
a few I mean I cook a few things. I
like to cook well, And what I mean, I really
like baking. People don't really notice, but I really love bacon.
I'm the guy who has a bunch of kitchen, akee parks,
and equipment because I like cook baking and that was
something I did with mom, and so that's something I
really enjoyed doing. I just don't do it a lot
people They want me to cook animals. I just like,
(22:21):
y'all missed out on my bacon. It is that's it's
it's it's a great physics and chemistry experiment every time,
every time you make a cake or something, that's exactly
while we couldn't run through the house on while I
was baking cakes. So growing up, she's like, the cake
on fall because we didn't use box mix, so you
(22:41):
made everything for stratch and she's like, don't run through
the house. Especially my grandmother, and she was perfectionist. She
her cake, every cake that she ever served had to
be perfect. If it wasn't perfect, you had to go
to the trash can. They went to the trash I mean,
and the cake would taste fantastic, but if it didn't
look par it went straight to the trash can. Wow.
(23:06):
Oh that's the opposite of what I am. I'm not
to make it pretty baker, but I love I love
doing it. I'm like, look, it's gonna taste good. Yeah, No,
she wanted to look She wanted to taste good, but
she wanted to look good if it don't. And so
I think I kind of take that approach sometimes to
my hogs, Like why when I cook, animals are cooking it.
(23:28):
Like I want my barbecue to be almost perfect. I
wanted to look like it's supposed to look every time,
even if I can't control it. So I go back
and study cooks that have done in the past to
kind of reflect what I did wrong, what can I
do better? What was the conditions that impacted my cooking process.
I think I'm a little maybe a little anal about
(23:50):
the process. But okay, that's what you get when you
get a rocket scientists who cooks barbecue. Do you still um,
how often a year do you to do a whole hog?
So last year, well I only cooked one whole hog.
This year I only cooked twice. This year I did
a event a Charleston with B. J. Dennis and I
(24:12):
cooked the lamb and a hall and a pig. It
wasn't need a hog, it was a little pig. It
was asib is olymp pig. Um. We did the event
with B J. Dennis and Charleston and then I cooked
the cow in New Orleans and I haven't cooked anything
that was all I cooked this year. Hm, go figure, right,
(24:32):
I think Newish. I think Newish got in their way
of it. Actually we understand that one. Yeah, but that's
all I cooked this past year. And it may it
may be the same type of thing in future years.
It may it maybe ebbs and flows, and I just
kind of go as haw the university says, I need
to go with it. Yeah. You you kind of touched
(24:59):
on earlier or that you're involved in the slow food
movement and sort of um, healthier, fresher ingredients. I focus
on that. Could you talk about that a little bit? Yeah.
I'm like, even before meeting slow foods, like the mission
of slow foods, good clean, fair like it resonated to
(25:19):
my whole upbringing of Like I used to run the
garden on the farm, so I was very accustomed to
eating fresh and seasonal ingredients. Um. And I think there's value.
There's immense value to that because you limit how much preservatives,
how much hormones is in your food. So like I'm
a I'm an advocate for it and getting involved with
(25:41):
a slow food movement. It's something like the mission I
believe is there, the antenna is there. I mean hopefully
what I hope in this whole slow food movement or
in like eating better quality foods, it comes more um
how I said, yeah, not only equitable, but I guess
(26:02):
like racially, like when I go to the farmers markets
in general of various places, like you don't really see
I don't really get to see a whole lot of
African Americans by stuff from farmers market. It looks like
it's very one sided. And I know it's an income thing,
but I would love to see get more inclusive. Yeah. Uh,
(26:24):
that's what I want. I mean because I know that
there's benefits to it, but I know, I know there's
a very much economic driver because by the organic tomato,
there's a lot more than a non organic tomato, but
the flavor is two totally different experiences. We are not
quite done with our interview with Dr Conyers, but we're
(26:45):
going to take one more quick break for a word
from a sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, and
back to the interview. One thing that you you mentioned
earlier that m is really important to us on this
(27:06):
show is sort of um expounding what the South means
because like you said, people do have this sort of
outside of the South and sometimes even in the South.
That's one idea of what Southern food is. And it's
so much more than that. And I read um one
of your hopes with with being on Nourish is um
(27:28):
showing what makes the South special and unique? And in
your mind, what is that? What makes the South unique
and special? Um? Like for me, like the South has
a even though no matter how the vad the South
(27:54):
was in terms of food, like people will cross over
Dan's could be very racists or surrogation wise, but like
you will find instances where if people food would bring
people together. And that's something I think is unique about
the South. Well, food brings people together everywhere, but the South,
(28:16):
with its dark history of slavery, food has a It
has the ability to bring people together to have a
conversation and hopefully those conversations will help to make the
South better, make it more one unit. Um, they help
people understand people differences. Is also there the similarities um,
(28:38):
I think the South is. I don't know what I mean.
No matter what it's bad about the South and some
people might I love it. I love the good and
bad of the South. It's one of those things that's
really hard to describe though, And and I guess you
would say, like the rules, I grew up in a
rural area. In the rural area is a lot different
(28:59):
from the city area, and I love both. Do you
get to go back home often? I tried to. I
try to go home. Well, I tried to go home
for about four times a year. I went home four
(29:19):
times this past year, and I think I saw my
parents probably six or seven times. So it came out here.
So that's I go home because my family is there,
and no matter where I'm go in life, like family
is important. And I think that's one of the things
I learned about growing up in the South. Like families
is everything. Do you have any any projects coming up,
(29:43):
any anything food wise or rocket science wise that you're
excited about? Um, actually I'm excited. I mean I haven't
really talked a lot about it publicly, but I wanted
so there. I did an episode on grist for Ner,
but I want to I have a grizmell and I
(30:04):
want to take this gritzmel and bring it back in
the operation so people in my community could see what
the Grizmill meant especially too. I will say to the
black I mean to me, I want to hear the
black families talk about how they survive. We're using the grismeal,
the significance of it to the community, how they shared
(30:24):
and work together. And so I'm working on trying to
bring a Grizmel back to life that I have a
stone Burg Grismell, because I think it's so many stories
and in history to be documented behind that, and I
think those are where my next projects really lies is
taking more taking time to really document and preserve those
(30:46):
stories from experts. Because people may say Howard Keyes is
an expert, but the people who are really experts in
my mind are the people like my father, my mother,
my aunts and uncle's who truly lived this. This thing
we guard we treat so special. I'm just a I
guess I'm just a mouthpiece, and I'm kind of ambassador
(31:09):
and I'm a cheer leader. I cared it for it.
I'm a guardian keeper, but I won't take the time
to really preserve the expert's opinions and knowledge base and
people in my community. That's that's important, and we have
the technology to do it, so that's that's kind of
what I'm working on. Oh it's wonderful. Um is a
(31:35):
is New Orleans home now? Or do you still think
of the Carolinas? Carolina's will always behold, But I mean
I'm slowly realizing I'm in New Orleans. I mean, like
I I love South Carolina and I would never I
can never take that for granted. I mean that it
(31:57):
has a special place in my heart. But New Orleans
has has it's starting to get They won't say it
will be equal, but it's it's definitely rising for me
because the things I see in New Orleans I can't
see any place else in the country. And the food
experiences I've been able to being a part of, I
don't think I've do that anywhere else in the country,
(32:18):
whether even if it was in a place like New York.
New Orleans have something special, Louisiana have something special. I
think people, I mean, people get caught up from New Orleans,
but I think people need to also look at like
areas like Apollucious, and there's so much fascinating culture in
the areas like Oppilucious or units Louisiana. There are small
towns that I think people are missing the boat. They
(32:42):
always focused on New Orleans. We we were you were
talking earlier about about equity and um, you know, getting
getting poorer segments and black segments of the community more
of an opportunity to enjoy these food that costs a
little bit more, or that you know, not everyone has
(33:03):
access to due to transportation issues, things like that. Could
you speak a little bit about about what you think
New Orleans could do better? Um, I think there's an
education that needs to occur in the whole space. It's
not I think it's an education. You have to educate
people on why this food is better because we will
(33:26):
spend well. People will spend money or whatever they seem
valuable if they have it. But I think there's a
lack of education the wis better and so that may
be an opportunity to do it better. Um. I think.
Um sometimes the access to it, the location of it
is New Orleans is not a big place. But I
(33:49):
can't expect a family who who's struggling with transportation the
better only come to the farmer's market for a few
things and they can't get everything they need on their
grocery list. That's kind of tough. Yeah, So those are
kind of my thoughts on it. Is there anything that
we we haven't asked you or that you would like
(34:11):
to talk about before we before we wrap up here? Um,
I just like if people ever want to get in
contact with me. I mean, I have a website, Howard
Conyers dot com. I do come speak, Uh, I do.
I do go speak and share my knowledge of food science,
engineering two different audiences, because I think it's important to
(34:36):
like people don't notice about me. I really want to
help inspire the next generation that they can do anything
they want to do. And I have a I love
I want to make sure people from not only urban
areas have inspiration, but I want people from rural areas
that have inspiration. If they can see it through my work,
that's even better. And so that I offer myself up
(35:01):
to society of like to try to try to get
back where I can where it makes sense. That's that's great.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak
with us. No, no, that's no problem. Oh yeah, I
don't know if y'all knew I was. I was one
of the Southerners of the Year for this year. Oh yeah, yeah,
I got names one of something living Southerners of the year.
(35:24):
Thanks nice, that's wonderful whatever that means. Put you over that. Yeah,
I'm still thinking about the cow thing. I don't know,
I'm kind of crazy for that, for the whole cow thing.
(35:45):
But I enjoyed it. It was it was a pleasure
to cook the whole cow. It was a pleasure to
do this podcast interview. And I thank you for taking
time to want to talk to Howard Conyers. I mean
that was a delight. Yes, thank you so much. And
back to the present. Oh, thank you, Thank you again
(36:06):
so much to to Howard. Um and yes again if
you if you want to learn more about his work
or possibly get him to come on out and teach
your your classroom or organization or whatever about about barbecue science. Um, yeah,
just go to Howard Kanyers dot com. That's h O
W A R D C O N y E R
(36:26):
S dot com. Uh. Yeah, what a what a pleasure.
It's it's it's always so amazing to get to talk
to other people who are just as nerdy about the
science bits as I am. Um. So yeah, that's that's
our episode for today. If you would like to get
in touch with us, you can do that thing. We
(36:46):
are available at a number of ways. You can email
us at Hello at savor pod dot com, or you
can find us on social media. We are on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod. We do hook to hear
from you. So favor is a production of I Heart
Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(37:07):
you listen to your favorite shows. Thank you as always
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor, a production of I Heart
Radio and Stuff Media. I'm Lauren voc Obam, and my
irreplaceable co host Annie Reese is out this week, but
we have for you today an interview that we did
around our New Orleans trip with one Dr Howard Knyers.
We didn't actually get to meet up with Howard while
we were in New Orleans, but we caught up with
(00:27):
him on the phone afterward. And Okay, Howard his day
job is rocket scientist. He is an engineer with NASA
at the John C. Stennis Space Center. He tests rocket engines.
He's also a barbecue pitt master, which is where you know,
the part where we interviewed him for a food show
comes in. Um. He grew up in South Carolina with
whole hog barbecue, which we've talked a little bit about
(00:49):
on the show before, back in our Asheville episodes. So yeah,
Howard bends his skills and talents in engineering to barbecue,
to to designing an educating with barbecue rigs. He once
famously designed and implemented a whole cow barbecue, which is
a feat. There's video, It's incredible. Yeah. He's also the
(01:13):
host of a PBS video show called Nourish Um, which
in their own words, is a show about food, what
it says about who we are, where we're from, and
the ties that connect us. And yeah, yeah, it's it's
a video series where there's two episodes a month and
they they explore uh, just the people in the culture
and the science behind food, which um, yeah is a
(01:34):
thing that we here at Saber perhaps obviously behind. So yeah.
So uh Howard is is based in New Orleans and
we we absolutely do that. We had to interview him
on our journey there. So yeah, I'm gonna let Pasted
Lauren and Annie and Howard take it away. So yeah,
(01:56):
I like to I like to start these things off
with a with a kind of official him. Who are you?
Hi'm notot the Howard Conyers Um a pit master who
also is known as the rocket Scientist, like an actual
rocket scientist, Yes, like a real rocket scientist that pays
the bills, not one of those fake rocket scientists. New Um,
(02:21):
how did okay? Many questions stemming off of that first thing, Um,
how how did you come to be a rocket scientist?
I want to board people because this is a food show.
But nine years nine years of education all the way
from growing South Carolina and public schools when in North
(02:41):
Carolina and t and study and follow environment engineering and
then I went to do university and got a PhD
and mechanical engineering. So that's how I became a rocket scientist.
For our start working with NASA and UM and you
started doing the pit master thing. Because being from South Carolina,
you you grew up with some whole whole hog barbecue. Yeah, yeah,
(03:02):
that's growing up that's what barbecue was. Whole hog. I
learned from my father when I was a young a
young person. We didn't have a restaurant, but that's how
I saw the whole hale barbecue tradition. Could you talk
a little bit about about that tradition that you grew
up with, Like like what was what was a barbecue?
Like a barbecue was like um, fourth did July, Christmas, Thanksgiving,
(03:27):
we will start with with slaughter hog. We invite our
family or we have like a big family gathering. We
had had a lot of uncles where I was from,
I had now uncles and they had had a lot
of first cousins. So we have a big gathering and
that gathering would have barbecue that was generally the meat
of choice, um, and that's where we will cook before
(03:51):
that dinner. The next day, we will start cooking barbecue
that night, or we'll starting slaughter the day before. But
it was kind of something embedded in the community. A
lot of families cook barbecue before for their family gatherings.
It wasn't just my family, and so we have barbecue
restaurants with a lot of us. Did it generally at
home use a technique that was fast down. Then we
(04:14):
were doing at church for like homecoming celebrations where the
church anniversaries um. And so that's kind of how that
tradition came part of my life very early. How did
you get back into into doing the whole hug once
you moved out to Louisiana. When I first moved by
in New Orleans, you know, you get home sick. In
(04:34):
New Orleans is a great food city. And when I'm
boved here, they claimed they had they said they had barbecue,
and they a couple of places had Carolina barbecue and
their menu, but when I tasted it, it wasn't Carolina barbecue.
They didn't do the little things. They didn't well, they
didn't do a lot of things to make Carolina barbecue,
and so like that kind of motivated me said, you
(04:56):
know what, if I'm gonna get it, I'm gonna least
do something to U show what what Carolina barbecue as
I knew it was. And so they had this barbecue
fund Regel Halls to calls that it was a good
cause to get behind where they were raising money for
kids with brain cancer. They could barbecue, and I said,
you know what, that would be something I will do
(05:16):
to try to see if I share what I know
about barbecue Carolina barbecue. Yeah. We we talked to um,
one of our interview subjects whose name I'm forgetting completely
right now, in a barbecue restaurant in New Orleans. Um, so,
is there kind of like a resurgence barbecue over there?
Is there are people getting back into it? Um? I think.
(05:41):
I think people are getting into it and they're trying
to adopt other styles of barbecue, because of New Orleans
has its own like grilling traditional. I don't necessary barbecue,
but they call it barbecue. But I use barbecue very mean,
whole animals, whole hall. But they used barbecue to do
like smoke sausage or ribs or port steaks. But the
(06:02):
barbecue city, New Orleans is going upunt our resurgence because
I believe this thing called halls for the calls and
also along with the national trend of like I hate
to say it, Texas barbecue. I'm gonna say moder in
Texas barbecue, not old school Texas barbecue. I'm gonna saying
moder in Texas barbecue. Um is. Uh. We're kind of
giggling over here in the background because there's there's so much,
(06:25):
so much inter barbecue community shade that happens, um And
when you said Texas barbecue like that, we were like, oh,
is there is there literal beef involved? Uh, it's no beef.
But like East Texas barbecue reminds you a lot of
the South. There was cooking pits, direct heat pits until
(06:46):
the probably the seventies, where they're starting to indirect spoken
stuff they're they're known for these days. It wasn't it
wasn't really. I mean, Daniel Vaughan have wrote ostensively on
like how the pits looking Texas at one point, but
now everybody associated barbecueit Aaron Franklin and the Mula family
and to see but um too is only one I
(07:07):
think it's still using the drake he pits, but everybody
else is using something that was started by the Mula family.
Oh that's fascinating. We're gonna okay, that's a whole separate
avenue of of of question. But getting getting back to
so um, how did you? How did you get involved
with that? Nourish? How to kidding with Nourish? What a
(07:29):
great show. But they wanted to do a documentary on
my story. And after I was in Denver, Colorado for
this fan called Slow Food Nations two years ago, maybe
maybe a year ago this time probably a year ago
a little over a year ago, and the producer was
there and they wanted to do a documentary and he
did a documentary, asked me, what a long story short,
(07:50):
would you consider hosting a show? And I say sure
if I get to go interview the subjects and share
something line knowledge of what I thought something and culture
all about. Yeah, And it was digital. So like for me,
that was exciting opportunity because it's a lot of I
saw digital as the way of the future with food shows,
I mean, I mean just media in general, and it
(08:11):
was an opportunity to kind of explore what that was
all about We want people to go watch the show obviously,
but um, but could you talk a little bit about
what what you've learned from your guests on on on
that show. What I have learned from my guests on
the show is just like how similar we are across
(08:35):
the South, but also like Southern food isn't much more
than what we think about. It's a lot deeper. And
I would say one of the things I learned is
like to travel food. When you start looking at like
when I had I had the opportunity to talk to
David Shield Dr David Shields from the Carolina Gold Foundations
then South Carolina, just understanding the journey of like say
(08:58):
something that simple as corn like a guinea flint cord,
starting Cuba and then work their way back to West
Africa and then come back to the States. Or looking
at the UM, looking at the rice, uh, the upland
rice seeing with the Americans, UM seeing it in the
Seattle as of Soccerrolina and then going to Trinidad after
(09:21):
War eighteen twelve. Understanding those kind of nuances that travel
food is very fascinating. And then when you when people
start coming to new places, they still try to bring
a part of them with them, because that's a the
food dish may look a little different, but the roots
of it are a lot are the same. In many cases. Absolutely,
(09:44):
we we we heard we heard New Orleans be described
as as like like the South is north from there,
like as being the highest point in the Caribbean rather
than the you know, a point in the South. I
would say New Orleans is very a different city from
the rest of the South. Um it's it's really a
different city from the restaurant state. So the international city,
(10:07):
I would say it's definitely the northern most Caribbean city.
It has a lot of people they say that statement,
but they also understand why it's the order of both
cities in the United States the others. The others start
thinking about the Haitian Revolution and who owned the territories
at certain time before New Orleans became part of the
United States, And when you understand that, you can understand
(10:28):
why there's just white people say it's that Caribbean connection,
because there was a lot of countries like Haiti and
the people from Haiti and the sugar came and who
owned what at certain times with France having territories in
the West Indies and with New Orleans, with Louisiana before
the Louisiana purchase and everything. So that's the reason this
(10:50):
thing is a Caribbean has that so much a Caribbean field.
Do you feel like you're you're you're a you're a
solid part of the food community there now? Um? And
and if it's so, if not, then but but if
it's so, um, I guess what was it like being
part of that community? I mean, I guess I'm a
(11:13):
solid part in a way, but I'm I have a
have a unique perspective in the food community. I mean, like, yeah,
I have a solid party to say, But I can't
say the food community pays my bills. But what I
what I could say is the knowledge base I bring
to the food community and the conversations are looking at
the African American food ways in New Orleans and the
(11:36):
contributions of West Africa and New Orleans across the South
has made me part of the food conversation. And I
know sometimes people those took the African American community as
well as the indigenous communities are often overlooking Southern foods
and being a Southerner, I think I was raising the South.
I wasn't raising the north, So I don't I see
(12:01):
it a little bit different because this is all I know.
I don't know. I don't know what it was like.
I don't think of like for me, I don't hardly
ever use the word so food because I don't I
never knew what that word was until I went to college. Wow. Yeah,
uh huh um has has has learned it about food,
(12:21):
taught you more about science, it has um. Really, what
I really like about the food thing is I think
people don't realize how much science is in food, and
we're newish. I was hoping to bear to do some
of that. Like we were talking about grinding grits. Nobody
would think there's a friction as a factor of friction
(12:42):
and making sure it came I mean making grits or
heat dissipation or viscosity. We're thinking about barbecue sauces, or
thinking about thermo dynamics with using the pit versus occasion
micro wave with a coppacina or something like. So there's
a lot of in technology involved in the cooking process.
(13:03):
And I have learned that when I was going some
of these restaurants and they start using the induction um
burners Like that's really fascinating to me as a person
of a science because you need a certain type plot
maybe from a certain material for that principle to work.
So it's super fascinating. We do have more of our
(13:23):
interview with Howard, but first we're going to take a
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, and back to the interview. So you
you grew up on a farm. Yeah, correct, and you
(13:47):
I've read that you directly credit growing up on a
farm with you becoming a rocket scientist and getting into
STEM in the first place. Could you could you talk
a little bit about that. I agree with that I
wouldn't be a rocket scientists without growing on the farm
because I've seen the real applications of science and technology
(14:08):
and engineering and mathematics on the farm. For instance, let
me give you example. We were trying to put up
this barn and as an engineer, you have you can
have like cables, and you're trying to use cables to
help pull something up and support things temporarily until you
get amounted securely. And we use a lot of engineering
(14:29):
principles to help get that. UM, I guess you would
said that being in place, but our rafters and getting
raftors in place. So seeing things like that early on,
or understanding about Furti Lizars. You're seeing like Furti Lizars.
They say, oh, what is a tin? Tin? Tin? Like
what is that in the science cash when they're talking
about nitrogen or fosterus and potassium. But people on the
(14:55):
farm might said it's called soda or liquid soda in Harmonia,
but that's all it was. But it wasn't They didn't
use the word nitrogen until in the school. And you
look at what I think the modecule ammonia. Ammonia is
like in age four or something like that. I believe,
going off memory, it might be in agh three. So
please don't shoot me. But you look at those compounds.
(15:18):
You look at those chemical compounds and not really understanding
what they mean, but you understand. I put it on
my crops, my field gonna turn green. I mean, if
you get enough road to go with it, they're gonna
turn really green. And they don't have a weed problem
in this field. So I mean, like you see all
those nuances are applying like organic chicken newers to the field.
(15:38):
Like what was the benefit of that versus a synthetic fertilizer.
I mean, that's I've seen so much science going and
I sound very poor. I was very fortunate to have
a really hands on application to understanding the sciences. I
mean a lot of people in the city, especially living
in New Orleans, they don't get the opportunity to have
those hands on exercises. But that's all I had. I had.
(16:00):
All I had was hand on exercises. The book was
just a kind of reinforcement life farm was a lab
and you you went on to kind of apply these
mechanical engineering that you learned through school to make a
pretty cool uh pit right, designed a pretty cool things. Yeah,
(16:25):
which which pitt you're talking about? You talking about the
cook a cow? No, but talk about that. I want
to know about that now. So so I didn't ask
this question first, how many times have you heard anybody
cooking cows in this country whole coal? Zero times? So
(16:51):
I had this crazy well that it wasn't really crazy idea.
Also side, it wasn't crazy, but a lot of history books.
When I started researching barbecue and they're talking about how
I cook barbecue, they start saying, they start having the
references to cooking whole cows. But nobody in my community
could hold cows. And I have seen or I talked
my father about cooking cows like, no, I hain't never
(17:13):
heard of that. You're talking some craziness. But I had
to show him. I had to show him in the
article or some books like it cooked house cows. To
my wife from concerts, she said, I need to cook
a cow, so I cook the cow. So I had
to design and engineer a pit that ham through this
massive I guess beasts so I could cook them. Because
once I once you start the cooking process of a cow,
(17:34):
you can't really touch them and it's not like flipping
a pig. So we for like six months of my life,
four months of my life, I started designing and building
a pit. When I came with the concept of sam
cook cow that I knew I had to start building
something too bad to handle this, And I put like
about four months of design time and offer on to
(17:57):
go into coming up with a concept to cook this
cow out and do all my bases, all my checks there.
For two months we started building and I can't take
credit for building the pit. My father built the pit,
but I went to Cyncrolina twice back to the shop
to do some building and do some checkouts. My verifications
that we was on better flip and rotate this cow
(18:18):
doing the cooking. So that was pretty unique, if you
would That's where I would say rocket scientists collided with
being a pit bastard. If people want to say we're
cooking colloid, where Howard Kanygers cooking collide with that? I
would say cooking the cow without any instrumentation, without any
(18:39):
I didn't use any thermometers, And that's where the engineering overlap.
That was the intersection. And I can't say that I wasn't.
I was impression on how it came out. Oh my goodness,
what was it? Was it delicious? Was it was it?
Every everything is juicy and wonderful as as a as
(19:01):
a whole whole hug. It was better. The history book
said it like this, and this was I'm gonna give
your give you the opportunity to kind of see if
you can imagine this. The histories book says this was
the best barbecue you can have. But imagine taking for
my beef lovers, not my vegans, and meeting all your
(19:21):
favorite cuts of steak in one or two bites. Ah
and and I just both went to a place. Oh
all right, that's how, that's how. We'll just drive it
all your cuts some beef, your favorite cuts of steak
(19:41):
in one or two bites. Was that like a one
and done thing? Will you ever do that? Will you
ever cook a whole cow? Agod? I don't know it?
Maybe it I don't know that that was. I mean
I had the capability now, which is always a plus,
and he with for me the capability. I have the capability,
(20:05):
but I don't know do I have to. I mean,
like I will do it when it makes sense, but
I think it's not something you do every day. Um yeah, yeah,
it was a lot, but it was a very unique
experience I did with it. Um. But like for me,
I have at this point, I have cooked every animal
(20:28):
raised in the American South on the farm, just domestic
cook a turkey, pig, lamb, goat, and a cow hole.
And I have cooked in the pits above ground as
well as below ground. I don't know what more I
can do it that moment. I suspect you'll think of something,
(20:50):
and it's like anybody we to do buy and say
they want me to cook a whole camel or something,
or or Australian cooking kangaroos, something different with state side.
I don't, but you could. The reason I say that
you're laughing, but when you go into other cultures, other
cultures eat what they have available. And so if I
wouldn't want to cook something that they wouldn't eat, I
(21:12):
raber cook something I think they will eat, but maybe
put a South Carolina barbecue perspective to it so they
can get it, so they get a taste of what
their plan to get. But with the food that mean
something to them culturally, right of course? Yeah, um do
I do? NASA folks like to cook, they do. Um,
(21:37):
I don't know how much. I mean, everybody like to cook.
Everybody like to eat, so I mean everybody likes to cook.
Do you all ever have like office potlucks? Yeah? I don't.
Sometimes I don't really cook that with your potlucks. Sad
to say, I just I'm lazy. I don't. I cook
(21:58):
a few I mean I cook a few things. I
like to cook well, And what I mean, I really
like baking. People don't really notice, but I really love bacon.
I'm the guy who has a bunch of kitchen, akee parks,
and equipment because I like cook baking and that was
something I did with mom, and so that's something I
really enjoyed doing. I just don't do it a lot
people They want me to cook animals. I just like,
(22:21):
y'all missed out on my bacon. It is that's it's
it's it's a great physics and chemistry experiment every time,
every time you make a cake or something, that's exactly
while we couldn't run through the house on while I
was baking cakes. So growing up, she's like, the cake
on fall because we didn't use box mix, so you
(22:41):
made everything for stratch and she's like, don't run through
the house. Especially my grandmother, and she was perfectionist. She
her cake, every cake that she ever served had to
be perfect. If it wasn't perfect, you had to go
to the trash can. They went to the trash I mean,
and the cake would taste fantastic, but if it didn't
look par it went straight to the trash can. Wow.
(23:06):
Oh that's the opposite of what I am. I'm not
to make it pretty baker, but I love I love
doing it. I'm like, look, it's gonna taste good. Yeah, No,
she wanted to look She wanted to taste good, but
she wanted to look good if it don't. And so
I think I kind of take that approach sometimes to
my hogs, Like why when I cook, animals are cooking it.
(23:28):
Like I want my barbecue to be almost perfect. I
wanted to look like it's supposed to look every time,
even if I can't control it. So I go back
and study cooks that have done in the past to
kind of reflect what I did wrong, what can I
do better? What was the conditions that impacted my cooking process.
I think I'm a little maybe a little anal about
(23:50):
the process. But okay, that's what you get when you
get a rocket scientists who cooks barbecue. Do you still um,
how often a year do you to do a whole hog?
So last year, well I only cooked one whole hog.
This year I only cooked twice. This year I did
a event a Charleston with B. J. Dennis and I
(24:12):
cooked the lamb and a hall and a pig. It
wasn't need a hog, it was a little pig. It
was asib is olymp pig. Um. We did the event
with B J. Dennis and Charleston and then I cooked
the cow in New Orleans and I haven't cooked anything
that was all I cooked this year. Hm, go figure, right,
(24:32):
I think Newish. I think Newish got in their way
of it. Actually we understand that one. Yeah, but that's
all I cooked this past year. And it may it
may be the same type of thing in future years.
It may it maybe ebbs and flows, and I just
kind of go as haw the university says, I need
to go with it. Yeah. You you kind of touched
(24:59):
on earlier or that you're involved in the slow food
movement and sort of um, healthier, fresher ingredients. I focus
on that. Could you talk about that a little bit? Yeah.
I'm like, even before meeting slow foods, like the mission
of slow foods, good clean, fair like it resonated to
(25:19):
my whole upbringing of Like I used to run the
garden on the farm, so I was very accustomed to
eating fresh and seasonal ingredients. Um. And I think there's value.
There's immense value to that because you limit how much preservatives,
how much hormones is in your food. So like I'm
a I'm an advocate for it and getting involved with
(25:41):
a slow food movement. It's something like the mission I
believe is there, the antenna is there. I mean hopefully
what I hope in this whole slow food movement or
in like eating better quality foods, it comes more um
how I said, yeah, not only equitable, but I guess
(26:02):
like racially, like when I go to the farmers markets
in general of various places, like you don't really see
I don't really get to see a whole lot of
African Americans by stuff from farmers market. It looks like
it's very one sided. And I know it's an income thing,
but I would love to see get more inclusive. Yeah. Uh,
(26:24):
that's what I want. I mean because I know that
there's benefits to it, but I know, I know there's
a very much economic driver because by the organic tomato,
there's a lot more than a non organic tomato, but
the flavor is two totally different experiences. We are not
quite done with our interview with Dr Conyers, but we're
(26:45):
going to take one more quick break for a word
from a sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, and
back to the interview. One thing that you you mentioned
earlier that m is really important to us on this
(27:06):
show is sort of um expounding what the South means
because like you said, people do have this sort of
outside of the South and sometimes even in the South.
That's one idea of what Southern food is. And it's
so much more than that. And I read um one
of your hopes with with being on Nourish is um
(27:28):
showing what makes the South special and unique? And in
your mind, what is that? What makes the South unique
and special? Um? Like for me, like the South has
a even though no matter how the vad the South
(27:54):
was in terms of food, like people will cross over
Dan's could be very racists or surrogation wise, but like
you will find instances where if people food would bring
people together. And that's something I think is unique about
the South. Well, food brings people together everywhere, but the South,
(28:16):
with its dark history of slavery, food has a It
has the ability to bring people together to have a
conversation and hopefully those conversations will help to make the
South better, make it more one unit. Um, they help
people understand people differences. Is also there the similarities um,
(28:38):
I think the South is. I don't know what I mean.
No matter what it's bad about the South and some
people might I love it. I love the good and
bad of the South. It's one of those things that's
really hard to describe though, And and I guess you
would say, like the rules, I grew up in a
rural area. In the rural area is a lot different
(28:59):
from the city area, and I love both. Do you
get to go back home often? I tried to. I
try to go home. Well, I tried to go home
for about four times a year. I went home four
(29:19):
times this past year, and I think I saw my
parents probably six or seven times. So it came out here.
So that's I go home because my family is there,
and no matter where I'm go in life, like family
is important. And I think that's one of the things
I learned about growing up in the South. Like families
is everything. Do you have any any projects coming up,
(29:43):
any anything food wise or rocket science wise that you're
excited about? Um, actually I'm excited. I mean I haven't
really talked a lot about it publicly, but I wanted
so there. I did an episode on grist for Ner,
but I want to I have a grizmell and I
(30:04):
want to take this gritzmel and bring it back in
the operation so people in my community could see what
the Grizmill meant especially too. I will say to the
black I mean to me, I want to hear the
black families talk about how they survive. We're using the grismeal,
the significance of it to the community, how they shared
(30:24):
and work together. And so I'm working on trying to
bring a Grizmel back to life that I have a
stone Burg Grismell, because I think it's so many stories
and in history to be documented behind that, and I
think those are where my next projects really lies is
taking more taking time to really document and preserve those
(30:46):
stories from experts. Because people may say Howard Keyes is
an expert, but the people who are really experts in
my mind are the people like my father, my mother,
my aunts and uncle's who truly lived this. This thing
we guard we treat so special. I'm just a I
guess I'm just a mouthpiece, and I'm kind of ambassador
(31:09):
and I'm a cheer leader. I cared it for it.
I'm a guardian keeper, but I won't take the time
to really preserve the expert's opinions and knowledge base and
people in my community. That's that's important, and we have
the technology to do it, so that's that's kind of
what I'm working on. Oh it's wonderful. Um is a
(31:35):
is New Orleans home now? Or do you still think
of the Carolinas? Carolina's will always behold, But I mean
I'm slowly realizing I'm in New Orleans. I mean, like
I I love South Carolina and I would never I
can never take that for granted. I mean that it
(31:57):
has a special place in my heart. But New Orleans
has has it's starting to get They won't say it
will be equal, but it's it's definitely rising for me
because the things I see in New Orleans I can't
see any place else in the country. And the food
experiences I've been able to being a part of, I
don't think I've do that anywhere else in the country,
(32:18):
whether even if it was in a place like New York.
New Orleans have something special, Louisiana have something special. I
think people, I mean, people get caught up from New Orleans,
but I think people need to also look at like
areas like Apollucious, and there's so much fascinating culture in
the areas like Oppilucious or units Louisiana. There are small
towns that I think people are missing the boat. They
(32:42):
always focused on New Orleans. We we were you were
talking earlier about about equity and um, you know, getting
getting poorer segments and black segments of the community more
of an opportunity to enjoy these food that costs a
little bit more, or that you know, not everyone has
(33:03):
access to due to transportation issues, things like that. Could
you speak a little bit about about what you think
New Orleans could do better? Um, I think there's an
education that needs to occur in the whole space. It's
not I think it's an education. You have to educate
people on why this food is better because we will
(33:26):
spend well. People will spend money or whatever they seem
valuable if they have it. But I think there's a
lack of education the wis better and so that may
be an opportunity to do it better. Um. I think.
Um sometimes the access to it, the location of it
is New Orleans is not a big place. But I
(33:49):
can't expect a family who who's struggling with transportation the
better only come to the farmer's market for a few
things and they can't get everything they need on their
grocery list. That's kind of tough. Yeah, So those are
kind of my thoughts on it. Is there anything that
we we haven't asked you or that you would like
(34:11):
to talk about before we before we wrap up here? Um,
I just like if people ever want to get in
contact with me. I mean, I have a website, Howard
Conyers dot com. I do come speak, Uh, I do.
I do go speak and share my knowledge of food science,
engineering two different audiences, because I think it's important to
(34:36):
like people don't notice about me. I really want to
help inspire the next generation that they can do anything
they want to do. And I have a I love
I want to make sure people from not only urban
areas have inspiration, but I want people from rural areas
that have inspiration. If they can see it through my work,
that's even better. And so that I offer myself up
(35:01):
to society of like to try to try to get
back where I can where it makes sense. That's that's great.
Thank you so much for taking the time to speak
with us. No, no, that's no problem. Oh yeah, I
don't know if y'all knew I was. I was one
of the Southerners of the Year for this year. Oh yeah, yeah,
I got names one of something living Southerners of the year.
(35:24):
Thanks nice, that's wonderful whatever that means. Put you over that. Yeah,
I'm still thinking about the cow thing. I don't know,
I'm kind of crazy for that, for the whole cow thing.
(35:45):
But I enjoyed it. It was it was a pleasure
to cook the whole cow. It was a pleasure to
do this podcast interview. And I thank you for taking
time to want to talk to Howard Conyers. I mean
that was a delight. Yes, thank you so much. And
back to the present. Oh, thank you, Thank you again
(36:06):
so much to to Howard. Um and yes again if
you if you want to learn more about his work
or possibly get him to come on out and teach
your your classroom or organization or whatever about about barbecue science. Um, yeah,
just go to Howard Kanyers dot com. That's h O
W A R D C O N y E R
(36:26):
S dot com. Uh. Yeah, what a what a pleasure.
It's it's it's always so amazing to get to talk
to other people who are just as nerdy about the
science bits as I am. Um. So yeah, that's that's
our episode for today. If you would like to get
in touch with us, you can do that thing. We
(36:46):
are available at a number of ways. You can email
us at Hello at savor pod dot com, or you
can find us on social media. We are on Facebook, Twitter,
and Instagram at savor pod. We do hook to hear
from you. So favor is a production of I Heart
Radio and Stuff Media. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
(37:07):
you listen to your favorite shows. Thank you as always
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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