September 18, 2020 • 31 mins
The ‘crab’ in your California roll and seafood salad is almost certainly an imitation made up of other seafood that’s been shaped and flavored to resemble crab legs. Anney and Lauren crack open the science of surimi and the history of krab sticks.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Favor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Read and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about imitation crab. Yes, sometimes crab with the K,
Crab with the K. Yeah. Annie named the outline for
this episode just all in caps with a K crab,
(00:27):
which straight to the point, yeah, which I like, right, Yeah, yeah,
I should have named it Mr. Crabs after my favorite
SpongeBob character who does spell it with a k? Ah?
Is he a fake crab? SpongeBob conspiracy? I cannot tell
you this because I have no idea what you're talking about.
(00:49):
But um, but I am sure that someone on the
internet has either gotten to the bottom of this or
pondered it deeply. So oh well, I will tell you.
A couple of listeners have uh written in and said, Annie,
of course you've seen the SpongeBob horror comic and I
had to do my shame. Say share this with me, Lauren.
(01:10):
Even if you haven't seen SpongeBob, you should read this comic.
It's terrifying but fantastic. Okay, is it canon or is
this fan work? It's fan work? Um, and it's about
Patrick like being an insatiable, like incorporating the actual anatomy
of a starfish, and so they cut off his arms,
(01:31):
so like stop, It's like, did you know starfish can regenerate?
It's so good? Wow? Uh ok okay, well okay, so
I mean so ay. We have gotten a lot of
requests for for a SpongeBob themed episode, which we will
have to do in the future, for which I will
(01:52):
totally watch some SpongeBob's. I haven't not watched it because
I'm mad at it or anything. I just haven't gotten around.
Why you got I got my list of well it's
twelve favored. I was supposed to do five, but it
became twelve ums the most anything I've ever heard in
my life. Yeah. Friend of Parts was like, just send
me five, and then I was working on it. I
(02:14):
was like, can I be ten? He was like okay,
but just stand there. I was like, well it's twelve.
I'm sorry, but anyway, I got that ready for you.
All right, well we can we can do this and
then I can read the horror comic and then we
can talk about it all in a future episode, but
pending that for now. Imitation Crab Yes, and this was
(02:39):
a suggestion from listener Ben Um, So thank you for that.
It's one of those foods I don't think I would
have thought of doing, unless like the news came my
way or something. But yeah, I have no idea what
it is, or I didn't when I started the research.
I could pretend to do the whole surprise podcaster thing,
but no, no, I know what it is. I had
(03:00):
no idea what it was. Um, And it's very interesting
and fun. Yes, yeah, And I will say that crab
is one of my favorite foods, and imitation crab is
the thing that I get like very specific cravings for,
and this was, perhaps surprisingly to me, one of my
(03:22):
cravingst episodes. Like I came closer to ordering expensive lunch
to be delivered to me during this than I have
in a long time, and I feel kind of bad
about that. That's fascinating because I was thinking about this
and I've obviously I've had imitation crab, but I couldn't
(03:44):
tell you what it tastes like I can. It's almost
more of a texture thing for me. There. It's so
salty and so sweet. It's it's not like it's not
like food, it's so like food. Well, you need to
talk to Samantha about your love of crab, because I
(04:05):
recently got to witness her love of crab. This being Samantha,
your co host over on Stuff. Mom never told you, yes,
thank you, and she it's insatiable. It's it's like I've
never seen anything like it. We actually went on a
crabbing adventure. We'd already bought crab, had more crab, but
she needed more crab, so we went crabbing and then
(04:27):
she had guilt drinks about the crabs. But she still
ate the crabs. Yeah. Um. Crab is also one of
my mom's favorite dishes, and a couple of Christmas ago
I made one of her favorite things with crab as
a sort of like let her down easy. I'm not
coming to Christmas. Yeah, I was gonna spend it with
(04:48):
my boyfriend. Um, but we are going to do crab
in a future episode because I have recently because of
this grabbing adventure, and also because of some weird crab
science I stumbled upon. Oh gosh, but not today, not today.
I didn't have it in me for an anatomy lesson today.
And it's some weird, weird things going on to the crab. Yeah,
(05:13):
I'm so excited. Yes, but yes, this does bring us
to our question. Yes, imitation crab. What is it? Well? Um,
imitation crab sticks are the hot dogs of the sea,
(05:35):
the craft singles of the ocean. Um. They're They're made
of fish meat, mints or paste that's blended with binders
and texturizers and flavorings and colorings um, then pressed and
cooked into these thin layers that are bundled into sticks,
resembling the meat from crab legs and resulting in like
(05:57):
a tender, flaky, spongey chew eat salty, sweet, savory stick
of meat, stick of meat, stick of meat, not meat
on a stick, stick of meat. Yes, yes, important distinction.
Here in the States, this imitation crab is almost always
(06:17):
the crab um in your California rolls, in your crab rangoon,
your seafood salad, that kind of stuff um and and
that fish meat mints or paste is a product called
sodimi um, which is also the main ingredient in fish
cakes um or kamaboco um. You know, like the kind
of stuff that you get in bowls of ramen or
or other soups in Japanese restaurants. Um a hole or
(06:39):
in slices. Some of them have pretty designs, like the
naruto kamaboco, which are white with a pink um pink
mak a pink spiral in them. Yeah. Uh. It's also
the key ingredient and lots of other imitation seafood products
like shrimp and scallop and lobster and sodi Me is
typically made from pollock or other whitefish um because they
(07:00):
they've got meat that's mild in flavor um and white
in color um. The technically seree me can be made
from any kind of seafood or other meat. Oh mm
hmmm mm hmmmm. I think there's something about the fish
proteins that that works specifically well for this process, which
(07:22):
is um that you you you take you take your fish,
you filet it, you know, so it's been missing the
heads and the guts um, and then press those filets
through a machine that that pushes the meat through sort
of fine sieve um and then collects on the other
side that the bones and scales and skin. So you
(07:43):
wind up with this with this fine mints of fish
that you wash repeatedly and then refine and drain, at
which point you've basically primed the proteins in the meat
to um to coil up and gel up with each other.
Then you you free is that mass until it's ready
to be made into whatever kind of product you want.
(08:06):
And the stuff that sreemi is mixed with in order
to create imitation crab may include a water as starches
from like wheat and corn and tapioca and potato or whatever,
protein from soy or egg whites, vegetable oils, and thickeners
like a cara gene in or xanthing gum and all
of these things will help with texture. Um. Then you're
(08:27):
gonna probably add some sugar and salt for texture and flavor,
and then some natural or artificial colors and flavorings, plus
preservatives for shelf life. The final product is going to
be pasteurized for safety and uh sold to consumers either
in pacts by themselves or as an ingredient in dishes.
As mentioned above, and compared with nonprocessed seafood, it is
(08:51):
probably going to be cheaper um, but generally less environmentally
friendly because that processing requires a lot of water and
creates waste. Right um, and yeah there I found a
lot of charts showing the price differences, and it can
be significant. Yeah, oh yeah, okay, but what about the nutrition. Well,
(09:17):
it depends on exactly how it's made, of course. But um,
but in general, imitation crab is low and fat, high
ish in protein, um, more carbs, and specifically more sugar
than non processed crab and fish. Uh. It's got a
decent smattering of minerals. It is high in sodium. Um,
So watch out for that if that's the thing that
you watch out for. And I mean, you know, if
(09:37):
you're comparing processed and non processed foods for nutritional purposes,
go with nonprocessed every time. Um. But you know, I
would say that the imitation crab will fill you up
in order to keep you going, you should pair it
with them a bit of fat maybe some vegetables. Always
eat a vegetable um. And there is a bit of
a problem with the mislabeling of the composite seafood products
(10:01):
that go into imitation crab and other serreeme based products. Um.
Like there's a mislabeling problem in all kinds of seafood.
But yeah, if you have an allergy to any kind
of seafood, I would advise probably avoiding imitation crab. In
a study from over a third of the semi products
sampled were mislabeled. Yeah, um, well we do have some
(10:25):
numbers for you, yes, despite the fact that it is
a little bit hard to parcel out numbers for imitation
crab specifically versus semi in general. Um, but it's a
big market as often Alaska alone, not even the whole US.
Just Alaska produced two hundred and four thousand metric tons
of serree, valued at five hundred and thirty million dollars.
(10:50):
Oh and Americans date twice as much pollock as crab
in twenty ten, which, again hard to necessarily say how
much of that has to do with him too, Asian crab,
but probably probably probably, And the US isn't the only
big consumer. No. France, Spain, Thailand, South Korea, and Japan
(11:12):
eat a lot of this stuff too. Apparently in France
it's pretty common to dip it in a sauce. Yeah.
I guess it's sold in little like snack packs, kind
of with a little sauce pack, and you just dip
the stick in the sauce and you eat it as
a little snack. And that sounds so delightful, And I'm like,
why has that not taken off in more places I want.
I want my little imitation crab snack packs everywhere I go.
(11:34):
Invitation crab snack. Yeah. Um, it's available in claw and
chunk form, which I found fascinating. Like, we only get
the sticks because I guess we're just like, no, what's what?
What more realism do we need than a stick? Um?
It could be a leg could shore? Why not? Uh? Yeah,
claw form and specifically breaded so that you can just
(11:57):
have a little little crispy breaded class right. Um. Those
are frequently available in places like South Korea, Thailand, Spain,
and Italy and comes in all sorts of flavors and colors.
In Japan and sometimes given as a gift. Yeah. Japan
is the largest sereami market overall. Um. There there are
special kamaboco made in different colors and patterns for different holidays. Um.
(12:23):
But the US now supplies a lot of Pollic and
Pacific Whiting sereemi to Japan. Like like of the Whiting
based seremi used in Japan is from the United States. Yes, uh.
And there's a very interesting history as to how we
got to their yes goodness, and we will get into that.
(12:45):
But first we're going to take a quick break for
award from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you so. For at least eight hundred years, seremi
based products have been consumed in Japan. The first known
(13:07):
recipe for the process of manufacturing sereemi, traditionally known as kamaboco,
goes back to a fifteen cookbook. It was a way
to use up left over our extra fish by grinding
it up and salting it, and in some instances it
was considered a delicacy. In the nineteenth century, small commercial
businesses started selling seremi based products, and in the twentieth century,
(13:30):
with the advent of more efficient large scale fishing operations,
modern manufacturing processes of seremi based products were born. Japanese
scientists innovated most of these methods between nineteen sixty, things
like longer preservation for improved shelf life, improving the texture
and learning more about the gel forming properties and why
(13:52):
they happen, and from that how to improve the texture
after freezing. Yeah that the problem is that fresh cite
me only lasts for so long, you know, because it's
a fresh product. But freezing proteins, which is you know
a good solution for for preservation. Freezing them can denature
them UM. It makes them uncurl so they won't form
(14:14):
and gel up with each other properly. UM. A major
innovation was the addition of sucros and sorbital, which are
sweeteners that also protect the the microscopic structures within the seremi.
When it's frozen. It helps U helps those proteins avoid
denaturing UM. And this meant that you could make all
the seremi you wanted when you got a fresh catchin
(14:35):
and then freeze it for manufacturing use later on. Yes,
big deal. And after that discovery in the nineteen sixties,
the production of seremi based items just shut up even more.
Invitation grabs specifically was privately invented in five by Sugino
(14:55):
Y Sugino and k Osaki uh And. Osaki's father had
founded a company that commercially processed seimi in n UM.
They were looking for a cheaper alternative of the much
desired but very expensive crab and Osaki believed that with
a little shaping and red food coloring, they could make
(15:16):
their product look like actual crablegs. Yes they weren't. They
only company to develop imitation crab around this time in Japan,
but they were certainly one of the biggest, certainly the
names that come up the most when you're digging into
the history of imitation crab. In the early eighties, invitation
(15:36):
crab made its way to mainstream United States, manufactured by
the Japanese company Yamasa Enterprises UH, and it was pretty
much an immediate success, um making an annual two hundred
and fifty million dollars in the United States by six
going from one hundred thousand pounds to one hundred million
(15:56):
pounds in a few short years. Wow. UH. As popularity
and demand grew in America, their production the production America
surpassed Japan's production, and American companies, yeah, they began exporting
to Japan. Not all was well, though, here's the quote
from a nine seven Chicago Tribune article. But not since
(16:20):
Classic Coke has any food caused as much talk about
the real thing. Many people want to know, who is
this impostor and why is it causing so much controversy? Gosh,
all right, I know. And a part of this controversy
was due to the lack of regulations requiring restaurants that
groceries and so on to label imitation crab as long
(16:42):
as it was fresh. So as long as fresh, they
didn't have to really differentiate. Um. This did change eventually,
imitation crab, crab or seafood product became the norm of labeling. Uh.
But yeah that that changed again later, which we'll get too.
And so I just want to put this in here.
I read a whole Atlas Obscure article about the origins
(17:04):
of the crab raan goon made Wes with imitation crab
frequently future episode. Yeah, but essentially I've never really thought
about how interesting of a food product this is. But
essentially Shader Vis plus Tiki culture plus the development of
Chinese American cuisine all came together to create this. Yeah,
(17:24):
this deep fried wanton pastry that contains cream cheese and
imitation crab. What a whirlwind. Right now, I want to
do an episode on cream cheese, because then I went
on a rabbit hole about that and I was like stop, stop, oh,
I would love to do an episode on cream cheese. Yeah, okay, okay,
(17:47):
concentrate Um. Part of what spurred all of this production
of semi based products here in the United States during
the nineteen eighties was changing fishery laws in the late
nineties seventies that UM previously had allowed foreign fishers to
get pretty close to American shores, but UM but these
(18:09):
new laws UM pushed them out. And in Alaska specifically,
UM like two dred miles from the shoreline, and so
that allowed these American fisheries to to really um capitalize
on the pollock, the Alaskan pollock in those waters. And
it was just it was just this dovetail that happened
right as imitation crab was taking off in the United States,
(18:32):
and suddenly these producers were like, oh man, we can
a get all of this like relatively easy to catch fish,
and we can make a pretty decent profit off of
it by turning it into this stuff that there's now
a market for. Mm hmmm. Something else that helped UM
was the popularization of the California role. Yeah, invented by
(18:55):
a Japanese chef in Canada, uh and using crabstick as
one of the ingredients. The California role also helped introduce
sushi at large to the American mainstream. Many many roles
that did incorporate imitation crab. They were intentional because a
lot of Americans at the time, we're a bit nervous
about eating raw seafood. I can remember the first time
(19:17):
I had sushi, which was in high school, and I
told my mom and she was like, great raw fish,
and now she'll eat sushi. But like, yeah, roles like that,
I want to do one on the California Roll to
so many future episodes to go back. Yeah, no imitation crab,
thank you, the crab that keeps on giving me. Um
(19:44):
In J Park started Seremi School at Oregon State University,
which is an annual event at the o s U
Seafood Lab and it culminates in a tasting of all
kinds of semi products scallops, hot dogs, and desserts. Yes,
if anyone has any more information on this, The most
(20:05):
recent article I could find was pretty pretty old, so
I'm not sure if it's still um but any listener
has any information. Um. Also, the article I found that
in had to Curb Your Enthusiasm clip, which any time
research allows me to watch a clip from a comedy
(20:25):
is great, but it's basically a Larry David arguing with
Cheryl about how he talks during sex, and she's like,
it's not even dirty talk. You bring up invitation crab
and he's like, invitation crab is interesting. More people should
know about it. Made me laugh, man, I actually have
a pretty good Larry David impression. I really didn't do
it there. Future in the future. The FDA allowed for
(20:51):
the dropping of imitation in two thousand six. Yeah, instead
allowing for this description crab flavored seafood made with seree
me a fully cooked fish protein. Okay, still accurate. I
that is a very long way of saying imitation, but sure,
yeah okay. Russia Beyond article claims that crab stick salad
(21:16):
is one of the top three items on Russian tables
on New Year's and they called it the Russian version
of crab louis uh. The article goes on to claim
that Russian women came up with this dish in THEES.
So again, any listeners, if you've got more information on that,
would like yeah yeah um. Also, as of new technologies
(21:37):
to to recapture some of the proteins and other nutrients
lost during the water treatment part of processing, seremi were debuted,
which m which helps produce waste yea although unlessi a
um over fishing and climate change have led to steadily
decreasing production of Sereenmi products since the nineteen eighties despite
(22:00):
continually increasing demand, which means that prices are rising. Yes, um,
And that's that's about where we are with imitation to Crab. However,
I did want to end this one on a slightly
different note because I found what is one of the
most beautiful pieces of art um I've ever found while
(22:23):
researching an episode. It is called Panta Crab Fantasy of Seremi,
and I would like Lauren to take a crack at
a describing it to you. Okay, So, so I don't
know where you found this, and I don't know what
Fanta Crab is. Um. If that's a brand, is a brand? Okay?
(22:50):
Oh I do see the little the little reserved mark
and next to it? Okay? Cool? Um? Well, okay, so
this is an image of like a oh, what's the
what's the word, like a like a collage or um
or or what's what's the term when you have like
a whole bunch of tiles that make up an image. Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah yeah, like a mosaic. Sure, yeah no,
this is a mosaic of Sereami products. Um. So it's
(23:15):
and and the and the image in the mosaic. Um
is this very kingly um king triton kind of kind
of thing with a with a flowing beard and and
and a noble crown. Um. And it looks like he
might be riding upon a dolphin or like a killer whale, um,
(23:36):
carrying his trident uh through through it through a sea,
a dark and storming sea. Um. But all of these
elements I cannot impress upon you enough. Are are mosaic
out of SEREAMI products. So so I can see uh
in the crown and in the orca um there's some
(23:59):
there's some crab claws, perhaps lobster claws, It's hard to tell. Um.
The beard and his hair are are made of little
Seree shrimps um. His his body appears to be crabstick.
It's uh, it's the very best um fake seafood mosaic
(24:23):
I've ever seen in my life. I feel very confident
we can say that now mm hmmm, I thought was
put into it. It's certainly certainly yes, hopefully well we
can post this or go look it up. It is
(24:43):
a thing to behold. Um. Yeah, it is truly a
fantasy of Seree. I believe there's a whole story like
the company had like a whole Neptune rides upon the
other waters and there's a thing. Yeah okay, I mean
he does. I'm not going to take that away from him.
So no matter how much serami he's made out of,
(25:07):
that is his right. Um. Oh well, thank you Lauren
for indulging me an excellent job describing. You're welcome. I
thank you, thank you for providing the opportunity. Oh. I
knew it had to be shared. I knew it. It's
(25:28):
one of those things. The second you see it, it's
like love at first sight, but with you know, a
piece of seafood with seafood yeah, um yeah, oh my heck.
Well yeah, So we do have some listener mail for you.
We do, but first we have one more quick break
(25:50):
for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with it's a crab movement there.
(26:12):
Oh okay. Yeah. I was torn between. I was like,
I should do an imitation of us doing listener mail,
but then I broke my brain, so I backed out
quick because I think I might not have returned from that. Yeah,
that's a that. And then I was going to do
like a Fanta crab. There were a lot of options
(26:35):
I could have taken for this one, That's what I'm saying.
Uh yeah, yeah, I I look forward to a King
Triton Neptune moment sometime in the future. Oh yeah, it's
coming cool. Oh yeah. But in the meantime, Marjorie wrote,
my grandparents owned an almond branch a mile or two
(26:57):
from the Franzy A winery near Escalon, Californ, Arnia, and
we're friends with the Franzia and Gallo families. Yeah. When
my grandparents retired and moved into town behind my junior
high school, I would go over to their house after
school to help with chores, and my grandmother would regale
me with stories of life on the farm and the
stories of esco on. The Franzyan Gallo families provided some
(27:19):
of the subject matter of those stories, including how one
of the Gallo brothers courted his wife on my grandparents
honeysuckle covered porch over bowls of popcorn. His penny pinching
was a legendary in the Central Valley. Thanks for bringing
back those cherish memories of spending time with my grandmother
and listening to her stories. You might want to think
about doing an episode on the Gallo family and their
(27:40):
influence on the American wine industry. It is a murder
mystery with bootlegging wrapped up with some strong army and
unbridled ambition through the generation story. Who yes, so, um,
that's really cool. Yeah, that's fascinating, ing Um, all of
(28:01):
that is fascinating top to bottom. And now I'm like, oh, man,
I should I should recommend the Gallo family story to
uh to American shadows that other that that murder podcast
I'm doing, because you should such intrigue any any bootlegging story.
M hm m m uh. Katie wrote, if every single
(28:24):
one of your Australian listeners doesn't write in to tell
you about Gun of Fortune, I will eat my hat.
Gun of Fortune is almost a rite of passage game
for often underage Australians, where you get the bag out
of the box and peg it to the hills, hoist
a rotary clothesline. Everyone sits in a circle under the
(28:44):
clothes line and someone spins it. Whoever is sitting under
the bag when it comes to a stop gets the
wine poured into their mouth from this pigot. It is
not exactly a game of skill, but it is a
cheap and fast way to get a party started and
also patriotic because it combines to Australian inventions cask wine
and the hills hoist, I should say the boxed wine.
(29:05):
Cask wine in Australia is often called goon particularly when
the wine is not of good quality, the bag is
called a goon bag, hence the name of the game
Goon of fortune, say like wheel of fortune. Also, and
maybe I'm revealing too much here, but cask wine was
always the sensible choice to take two parties in my youth,
because you can blow up an empty bag to use
(29:26):
as a pillow at the end of the night. Actually,
there's even a sculpture in the Civic Center in Canberra
which is called the goon Bag. It's a big silver pillow.
I'm not sure if the artist meant it to be
a goon bag, but I've never heard it called anything else.
And yes, Australia does need to work on its drinking culture.
I drink much more responsibly now but still would never
(29:49):
sniff at wine from a box. I love all of this.
Oh that's great. Uh, And you do not have to
eat your hat because I believe we've heard from every Australia,
every million period, not only the ones who listened to
the show. It got out quick. Um they didn't mention
(30:12):
good a fortune, which I love. And we're gonna share
even more stories of this later because they're all wonderful
and make make a smile. Yes, absolutely so good. Yeah.
I can't believe I've never thought of using the bag
for something like anything, um, because I know some people
said they like, use it like a footstool, blow it
(30:34):
up footstool, like all kinds of things. Okay, yeah, see, reduce, reuse, recycle,
that's great. Yes, we're all about it, all about it.
Thanks to both of those listeners. Whore writing. If you
would like to write to as you can, Our email
is hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and
(30:55):
Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to hear
from you. Savor is production I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts to my Heart Radio, you can visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lost more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Favor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Read and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about imitation crab. Yes, sometimes crab with the K,
Crab with the K. Yeah. Annie named the outline for
this episode just all in caps with a K crab,
(00:27):
which straight to the point, yeah, which I like, right, Yeah, yeah,
I should have named it Mr. Crabs after my favorite
SpongeBob character who does spell it with a k? Ah?
Is he a fake crab? SpongeBob conspiracy? I cannot tell
you this because I have no idea what you're talking about.
(00:49):
But um, but I am sure that someone on the
internet has either gotten to the bottom of this or
pondered it deeply. So oh well, I will tell you.
A couple of listeners have uh written in and said, Annie,
of course you've seen the SpongeBob horror comic and I
had to do my shame. Say share this with me, Lauren.
(01:10):
Even if you haven't seen SpongeBob, you should read this comic.
It's terrifying but fantastic. Okay, is it canon or is
this fan work? It's fan work? Um, and it's about
Patrick like being an insatiable, like incorporating the actual anatomy
of a starfish, and so they cut off his arms,
(01:31):
so like stop, It's like, did you know starfish can regenerate?
It's so good? Wow? Uh ok okay, well okay, so
I mean so ay. We have gotten a lot of
requests for for a SpongeBob themed episode, which we will
have to do in the future, for which I will
(01:52):
totally watch some SpongeBob's. I haven't not watched it because
I'm mad at it or anything. I just haven't gotten around.
Why you got I got my list of well it's
twelve favored. I was supposed to do five, but it
became twelve ums the most anything I've ever heard in
my life. Yeah. Friend of Parts was like, just send
me five, and then I was working on it. I
(02:14):
was like, can I be ten? He was like okay,
but just stand there. I was like, well it's twelve.
I'm sorry, but anyway, I got that ready for you.
All right, well we can we can do this and
then I can read the horror comic and then we
can talk about it all in a future episode, but
pending that for now. Imitation Crab Yes, and this was
(02:39):
a suggestion from listener Ben Um, So thank you for that.
It's one of those foods I don't think I would
have thought of doing, unless like the news came my
way or something. But yeah, I have no idea what
it is, or I didn't when I started the research.
I could pretend to do the whole surprise podcaster thing,
but no, no, I know what it is. I had
(03:00):
no idea what it was. Um, And it's very interesting
and fun. Yes, yeah, And I will say that crab
is one of my favorite foods, and imitation crab is
the thing that I get like very specific cravings for,
and this was, perhaps surprisingly to me, one of my
(03:22):
cravingst episodes. Like I came closer to ordering expensive lunch
to be delivered to me during this than I have
in a long time, and I feel kind of bad
about that. That's fascinating because I was thinking about this
and I've obviously I've had imitation crab, but I couldn't
(03:44):
tell you what it tastes like I can. It's almost
more of a texture thing for me. There. It's so
salty and so sweet. It's it's not like it's not
like food, it's so like food. Well, you need to
talk to Samantha about your love of crab, because I
(04:05):
recently got to witness her love of crab. This being Samantha,
your co host over on Stuff. Mom never told you, yes,
thank you, and she it's insatiable. It's it's like I've
never seen anything like it. We actually went on a
crabbing adventure. We'd already bought crab, had more crab, but
she needed more crab, so we went crabbing and then
(04:27):
she had guilt drinks about the crabs. But she still
ate the crabs. Yeah. Um. Crab is also one of
my mom's favorite dishes, and a couple of Christmas ago
I made one of her favorite things with crab as
a sort of like let her down easy. I'm not
coming to Christmas. Yeah, I was gonna spend it with
(04:48):
my boyfriend. Um, but we are going to do crab
in a future episode because I have recently because of
this grabbing adventure, and also because of some weird crab
science I stumbled upon. Oh gosh, but not today, not today.
I didn't have it in me for an anatomy lesson today.
And it's some weird, weird things going on to the crab. Yeah,
(05:13):
I'm so excited. Yes, but yes, this does bring us
to our question. Yes, imitation crab. What is it? Well? Um,
imitation crab sticks are the hot dogs of the sea,
(05:35):
the craft singles of the ocean. Um. They're They're made
of fish meat, mints or paste that's blended with binders
and texturizers and flavorings and colorings um, then pressed and
cooked into these thin layers that are bundled into sticks,
resembling the meat from crab legs and resulting in like
(05:57):
a tender, flaky, spongey chew eat salty, sweet, savory stick
of meat, stick of meat, stick of meat, not meat
on a stick, stick of meat. Yes, yes, important distinction.
Here in the States, this imitation crab is almost always
(06:17):
the crab um in your California rolls, in your crab rangoon,
your seafood salad, that kind of stuff um and and
that fish meat mints or paste is a product called
sodimi um, which is also the main ingredient in fish
cakes um or kamaboco um. You know, like the kind
of stuff that you get in bowls of ramen or
or other soups in Japanese restaurants. Um a hole or
(06:39):
in slices. Some of them have pretty designs, like the
naruto kamaboco, which are white with a pink um pink
mak a pink spiral in them. Yeah. Uh. It's also
the key ingredient and lots of other imitation seafood products
like shrimp and scallop and lobster and sodi Me is
typically made from pollock or other whitefish um because they
(07:00):
they've got meat that's mild in flavor um and white
in color um. The technically seree me can be made
from any kind of seafood or other meat. Oh mm
hmmm mm hmmmm. I think there's something about the fish
proteins that that works specifically well for this process, which
(07:22):
is um that you you you take you take your fish,
you filet it, you know, so it's been missing the
heads and the guts um, and then press those filets
through a machine that that pushes the meat through sort
of fine sieve um and then collects on the other
side that the bones and scales and skin. So you
(07:43):
wind up with this with this fine mints of fish
that you wash repeatedly and then refine and drain, at
which point you've basically primed the proteins in the meat
to um to coil up and gel up with each other.
Then you you free is that mass until it's ready
to be made into whatever kind of product you want.
(08:06):
And the stuff that sreemi is mixed with in order
to create imitation crab may include a water as starches
from like wheat and corn and tapioca and potato or whatever,
protein from soy or egg whites, vegetable oils, and thickeners
like a cara gene in or xanthing gum and all
of these things will help with texture. Um. Then you're
(08:27):
gonna probably add some sugar and salt for texture and flavor,
and then some natural or artificial colors and flavorings, plus
preservatives for shelf life. The final product is going to
be pasteurized for safety and uh sold to consumers either
in pacts by themselves or as an ingredient in dishes.
As mentioned above, and compared with nonprocessed seafood, it is
(08:51):
probably going to be cheaper um, but generally less environmentally
friendly because that processing requires a lot of water and
creates waste. Right um, and yeah there I found a
lot of charts showing the price differences, and it can
be significant. Yeah, oh yeah, okay, but what about the nutrition. Well,
(09:17):
it depends on exactly how it's made, of course. But um,
but in general, imitation crab is low and fat, high
ish in protein, um, more carbs, and specifically more sugar
than non processed crab and fish. Uh. It's got a
decent smattering of minerals. It is high in sodium. Um,
So watch out for that if that's the thing that
you watch out for. And I mean, you know, if
(09:37):
you're comparing processed and non processed foods for nutritional purposes,
go with nonprocessed every time. Um. But you know, I
would say that the imitation crab will fill you up
in order to keep you going, you should pair it
with them a bit of fat maybe some vegetables. Always
eat a vegetable um. And there is a bit of
a problem with the mislabeling of the composite seafood products
(10:01):
that go into imitation crab and other serreeme based products. Um.
Like there's a mislabeling problem in all kinds of seafood.
But yeah, if you have an allergy to any kind
of seafood, I would advise probably avoiding imitation crab. In
a study from over a third of the semi products
sampled were mislabeled. Yeah, um, well we do have some
(10:25):
numbers for you, yes, despite the fact that it is
a little bit hard to parcel out numbers for imitation
crab specifically versus semi in general. Um, but it's a
big market as often Alaska alone, not even the whole US.
Just Alaska produced two hundred and four thousand metric tons
of serree, valued at five hundred and thirty million dollars.
(10:50):
Oh and Americans date twice as much pollock as crab
in twenty ten, which, again hard to necessarily say how
much of that has to do with him too, Asian crab,
but probably probably probably, And the US isn't the only
big consumer. No. France, Spain, Thailand, South Korea, and Japan
(11:12):
eat a lot of this stuff too. Apparently in France
it's pretty common to dip it in a sauce. Yeah.
I guess it's sold in little like snack packs, kind
of with a little sauce pack, and you just dip
the stick in the sauce and you eat it as
a little snack. And that sounds so delightful, And I'm like,
why has that not taken off in more places I want.
I want my little imitation crab snack packs everywhere I go.
(11:34):
Invitation crab snack. Yeah. Um, it's available in claw and
chunk form, which I found fascinating. Like, we only get
the sticks because I guess we're just like, no, what's what?
What more realism do we need than a stick? Um?
It could be a leg could shore? Why not? Uh? Yeah,
claw form and specifically breaded so that you can just
(11:57):
have a little little crispy breaded class right. Um. Those
are frequently available in places like South Korea, Thailand, Spain,
and Italy and comes in all sorts of flavors and colors.
In Japan and sometimes given as a gift. Yeah. Japan
is the largest sereami market overall. Um. There there are
special kamaboco made in different colors and patterns for different holidays. Um.
(12:23):
But the US now supplies a lot of Pollic and
Pacific Whiting sereemi to Japan. Like like of the Whiting
based seremi used in Japan is from the United States. Yes, uh.
And there's a very interesting history as to how we
got to their yes goodness, and we will get into that.
(12:45):
But first we're going to take a quick break for
award from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you so. For at least eight hundred years, seremi
based products have been consumed in Japan. The first known
(13:07):
recipe for the process of manufacturing sereemi, traditionally known as kamaboco,
goes back to a fifteen cookbook. It was a way
to use up left over our extra fish by grinding
it up and salting it, and in some instances it
was considered a delicacy. In the nineteenth century, small commercial
businesses started selling seremi based products, and in the twentieth century,
(13:30):
with the advent of more efficient large scale fishing operations,
modern manufacturing processes of seremi based products were born. Japanese
scientists innovated most of these methods between nineteen sixty, things
like longer preservation for improved shelf life, improving the texture
and learning more about the gel forming properties and why
(13:52):
they happen, and from that how to improve the texture
after freezing. Yeah that the problem is that fresh cite
me only lasts for so long, you know, because it's
a fresh product. But freezing proteins, which is you know
a good solution for for preservation. Freezing them can denature
them UM. It makes them uncurl so they won't form
(14:14):
and gel up with each other properly. UM. A major
innovation was the addition of sucros and sorbital, which are
sweeteners that also protect the the microscopic structures within the seremi.
When it's frozen. It helps U helps those proteins avoid
denaturing UM. And this meant that you could make all
the seremi you wanted when you got a fresh catchin
(14:35):
and then freeze it for manufacturing use later on. Yes,
big deal. And after that discovery in the nineteen sixties,
the production of seremi based items just shut up even more.
Invitation grabs specifically was privately invented in five by Sugino
(14:55):
Y Sugino and k Osaki uh And. Osaki's father had
founded a company that commercially processed seimi in n UM.
They were looking for a cheaper alternative of the much
desired but very expensive crab and Osaki believed that with
a little shaping and red food coloring, they could make
(15:16):
their product look like actual crablegs. Yes they weren't. They
only company to develop imitation crab around this time in Japan,
but they were certainly one of the biggest, certainly the
names that come up the most when you're digging into
the history of imitation crab. In the early eighties, invitation
(15:36):
crab made its way to mainstream United States, manufactured by
the Japanese company Yamasa Enterprises UH, and it was pretty
much an immediate success, um making an annual two hundred
and fifty million dollars in the United States by six
going from one hundred thousand pounds to one hundred million
(15:56):
pounds in a few short years. Wow. UH. As popularity
and demand grew in America, their production the production America
surpassed Japan's production, and American companies, yeah, they began exporting
to Japan. Not all was well, though, here's the quote
from a nine seven Chicago Tribune article. But not since
(16:20):
Classic Coke has any food caused as much talk about
the real thing. Many people want to know, who is
this impostor and why is it causing so much controversy? Gosh,
all right, I know. And a part of this controversy
was due to the lack of regulations requiring restaurants that
groceries and so on to label imitation crab as long
(16:42):
as it was fresh. So as long as fresh, they
didn't have to really differentiate. Um. This did change eventually,
imitation crab, crab or seafood product became the norm of labeling. Uh.
But yeah that that changed again later, which we'll get too.
And so I just want to put this in here.
I read a whole Atlas Obscure article about the origins
(17:04):
of the crab raan goon made Wes with imitation crab
frequently future episode. Yeah, but essentially I've never really thought
about how interesting of a food product this is. But
essentially Shader Vis plus Tiki culture plus the development of
Chinese American cuisine all came together to create this. Yeah,
(17:24):
this deep fried wanton pastry that contains cream cheese and
imitation crab. What a whirlwind. Right now, I want to
do an episode on cream cheese, because then I went
on a rabbit hole about that and I was like stop, stop, oh,
I would love to do an episode on cream cheese. Yeah, okay, okay,
(17:47):
concentrate Um. Part of what spurred all of this production
of semi based products here in the United States during
the nineteen eighties was changing fishery laws in the late
nineties seventies that UM previously had allowed foreign fishers to
get pretty close to American shores, but UM but these
(18:09):
new laws UM pushed them out. And in Alaska specifically,
UM like two dred miles from the shoreline, and so
that allowed these American fisheries to to really um capitalize
on the pollock, the Alaskan pollock in those waters. And
it was just it was just this dovetail that happened
right as imitation crab was taking off in the United States,
(18:32):
and suddenly these producers were like, oh man, we can
a get all of this like relatively easy to catch fish,
and we can make a pretty decent profit off of
it by turning it into this stuff that there's now
a market for. Mm hmmm. Something else that helped UM
was the popularization of the California role. Yeah, invented by
(18:55):
a Japanese chef in Canada, uh and using crabstick as
one of the ingredients. The California role also helped introduce
sushi at large to the American mainstream. Many many roles
that did incorporate imitation crab. They were intentional because a
lot of Americans at the time, we're a bit nervous
about eating raw seafood. I can remember the first time
(19:17):
I had sushi, which was in high school, and I
told my mom and she was like, great raw fish,
and now she'll eat sushi. But like, yeah, roles like that,
I want to do one on the California Roll to
so many future episodes to go back. Yeah, no imitation crab,
thank you, the crab that keeps on giving me. Um
(19:44):
In J Park started Seremi School at Oregon State University,
which is an annual event at the o s U
Seafood Lab and it culminates in a tasting of all
kinds of semi products scallops, hot dogs, and desserts. Yes,
if anyone has any more information on this, The most
(20:05):
recent article I could find was pretty pretty old, so
I'm not sure if it's still um but any listener
has any information. Um. Also, the article I found that
in had to Curb Your Enthusiasm clip, which any time
research allows me to watch a clip from a comedy
(20:25):
is great, but it's basically a Larry David arguing with
Cheryl about how he talks during sex, and she's like,
it's not even dirty talk. You bring up invitation crab
and he's like, invitation crab is interesting. More people should
know about it. Made me laugh, man, I actually have
a pretty good Larry David impression. I really didn't do
it there. Future in the future. The FDA allowed for
(20:51):
the dropping of imitation in two thousand six. Yeah, instead
allowing for this description crab flavored seafood made with seree
me a fully cooked fish protein. Okay, still accurate. I
that is a very long way of saying imitation, but sure,
yeah okay. Russia Beyond article claims that crab stick salad
(21:16):
is one of the top three items on Russian tables
on New Year's and they called it the Russian version
of crab louis uh. The article goes on to claim
that Russian women came up with this dish in THEES.
So again, any listeners, if you've got more information on that,
would like yeah yeah um. Also, as of new technologies
(21:37):
to to recapture some of the proteins and other nutrients
lost during the water treatment part of processing, seremi were debuted,
which m which helps produce waste yea although unlessi a
um over fishing and climate change have led to steadily
decreasing production of Sereenmi products since the nineteen eighties despite
(22:00):
continually increasing demand, which means that prices are rising. Yes, um,
And that's that's about where we are with imitation to Crab. However,
I did want to end this one on a slightly
different note because I found what is one of the
most beautiful pieces of art um I've ever found while
(22:23):
researching an episode. It is called Panta Crab Fantasy of Seremi,
and I would like Lauren to take a crack at
a describing it to you. Okay, So, so I don't
know where you found this, and I don't know what
Fanta Crab is. Um. If that's a brand, is a brand? Okay?
(22:50):
Oh I do see the little the little reserved mark
and next to it? Okay? Cool? Um? Well, okay, so
this is an image of like a oh, what's the
what's the word, like a like a collage or um
or or what's what's the term when you have like
a whole bunch of tiles that make up an image. Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah yeah, like a mosaic. Sure, yeah no,
this is a mosaic of Sereami products. Um. So it's
(23:15):
and and the and the image in the mosaic. Um
is this very kingly um king triton kind of kind
of thing with a with a flowing beard and and
and a noble crown. Um. And it looks like he
might be riding upon a dolphin or like a killer whale, um,
(23:36):
carrying his trident uh through through it through a sea,
a dark and storming sea. Um. But all of these
elements I cannot impress upon you enough. Are are mosaic
out of SEREAMI products. So so I can see uh
in the crown and in the orca um there's some
(23:59):
there's some crab claws, perhaps lobster claws, It's hard to tell. Um.
The beard and his hair are are made of little
Seree shrimps um. His his body appears to be crabstick.
It's uh, it's the very best um fake seafood mosaic
(24:23):
I've ever seen in my life. I feel very confident
we can say that now mm hmmm, I thought was
put into it. It's certainly certainly yes, hopefully well we
can post this or go look it up. It is
(24:43):
a thing to behold. Um. Yeah, it is truly a
fantasy of Seree. I believe there's a whole story like
the company had like a whole Neptune rides upon the
other waters and there's a thing. Yeah okay, I mean
he does. I'm not going to take that away from him.
So no matter how much serami he's made out of,
(25:07):
that is his right. Um. Oh well, thank you Lauren
for indulging me an excellent job describing. You're welcome. I
thank you, thank you for providing the opportunity. Oh. I
knew it had to be shared. I knew it. It's
(25:28):
one of those things. The second you see it, it's
like love at first sight, but with you know, a
piece of seafood with seafood yeah, um yeah, oh my heck.
Well yeah, So we do have some listener mail for you.
We do, but first we have one more quick break
(25:50):
for word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with it's a crab movement there.
(26:12):
Oh okay. Yeah. I was torn between. I was like,
I should do an imitation of us doing listener mail,
but then I broke my brain, so I backed out
quick because I think I might not have returned from that. Yeah,
that's a that. And then I was going to do
like a Fanta crab. There were a lot of options
(26:35):
I could have taken for this one, That's what I'm saying.
Uh yeah, yeah, I I look forward to a King
Triton Neptune moment sometime in the future. Oh yeah, it's
coming cool. Oh yeah. But in the meantime, Marjorie wrote,
my grandparents owned an almond branch a mile or two
(26:57):
from the Franzy A winery near Escalon, Californ, Arnia, and
we're friends with the Franzia and Gallo families. Yeah. When
my grandparents retired and moved into town behind my junior
high school, I would go over to their house after
school to help with chores, and my grandmother would regale
me with stories of life on the farm and the
stories of esco on. The Franzyan Gallo families provided some
(27:19):
of the subject matter of those stories, including how one
of the Gallo brothers courted his wife on my grandparents
honeysuckle covered porch over bowls of popcorn. His penny pinching
was a legendary in the Central Valley. Thanks for bringing
back those cherish memories of spending time with my grandmother
and listening to her stories. You might want to think
about doing an episode on the Gallo family and their
(27:40):
influence on the American wine industry. It is a murder
mystery with bootlegging wrapped up with some strong army and
unbridled ambition through the generation story. Who yes, so, um,
that's really cool. Yeah, that's fascinating, ing Um, all of
(28:01):
that is fascinating top to bottom. And now I'm like, oh, man,
I should I should recommend the Gallo family story to
uh to American shadows that other that that murder podcast
I'm doing, because you should such intrigue any any bootlegging story.
M hm m m uh. Katie wrote, if every single
(28:24):
one of your Australian listeners doesn't write in to tell
you about Gun of Fortune, I will eat my hat.
Gun of Fortune is almost a rite of passage game
for often underage Australians, where you get the bag out
of the box and peg it to the hills, hoist
a rotary clothesline. Everyone sits in a circle under the
(28:44):
clothes line and someone spins it. Whoever is sitting under
the bag when it comes to a stop gets the
wine poured into their mouth from this pigot. It is
not exactly a game of skill, but it is a
cheap and fast way to get a party started and
also patriotic because it combines to Australian inventions cask wine
and the hills hoist, I should say the boxed wine.
(29:05):
Cask wine in Australia is often called goon particularly when
the wine is not of good quality, the bag is
called a goon bag, hence the name of the game
Goon of fortune, say like wheel of fortune. Also, and
maybe I'm revealing too much here, but cask wine was
always the sensible choice to take two parties in my youth,
because you can blow up an empty bag to use
(29:26):
as a pillow at the end of the night. Actually,
there's even a sculpture in the Civic Center in Canberra
which is called the goon Bag. It's a big silver pillow.
I'm not sure if the artist meant it to be
a goon bag, but I've never heard it called anything else.
And yes, Australia does need to work on its drinking culture.
I drink much more responsibly now but still would never
(29:49):
sniff at wine from a box. I love all of this.
Oh that's great. Uh, And you do not have to
eat your hat because I believe we've heard from every Australia,
every million period, not only the ones who listened to
the show. It got out quick. Um they didn't mention
(30:12):
good a fortune, which I love. And we're gonna share
even more stories of this later because they're all wonderful
and make make a smile. Yes, absolutely so good. Yeah.
I can't believe I've never thought of using the bag
for something like anything, um, because I know some people
said they like, use it like a footstool, blow it
(30:34):
up footstool, like all kinds of things. Okay, yeah, see, reduce, reuse, recycle,
that's great. Yes, we're all about it, all about it.
Thanks to both of those listeners. Whore writing. If you
would like to write to as you can, Our email
is hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook and
(30:55):
Instagram at savor pod and we do hope to hear
from you. Savor is production I Heart Radio. For more
podcasts to my Heart Radio, you can visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lost more good things are coming
your way.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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