November 3, 2021 • 39 mins
This product, made of real smoke from smoldering wood, is used as a seasoning and safety measure alike. Anney and Lauren blow through the science and history of liquid smoke. (p.s. mirrors aren't liquid; glass is an amorphous solid)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection. I Heart Radio. I'm
Anny Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have
an episode for you about liquid Smoke. Yes, which is
a great name for a band, I think, Oh yeah,
one uh two. I had a complete misconception of what
(00:28):
this is, and it's one of those things that now
that I know what it is, I'm like, well, of
course that's what it is. Like, why did I think
it was something else? Basically I felt like it was
almost the equivalent of dry ice or something. Okay, Okay,
I don't know. I thought that it's in the name.
(00:49):
Actually it's fairly straightforward. Maybe I'm so used to it
not being forward. I guess that's fair. I guess that
based on um, you know, your personal experience out in
the world and certainly on the show, there's any number
of items that are not what they say on the label.
(01:10):
So yeah, yes, I also love that we're doing this
one right after Halloween. It feels kind of in the
Halloween vein sure, very very fall like wooden wood fire
smokes are a big part of my fall anyway, So yes, Um,
was there any particular impetus behind this one? Goodness. Um. So.
(01:35):
So one of the other shows that I do here
at I heeart Um called brain Stuff is a short
form science show. It airs every day, so I've done
like one thousand one episodes of it and I something
like that, and I'm constantly trolling the How Stuff Works.
(01:58):
Are trolling perhaps the how stuff Works website um for
for articles to pull to pull from and turn into
these scripts and turn into this podcast. It's a whole
deal that we have worked out with how Stuff Works.
And they have an article up on liquid smoke and
I was like, huh, and I was reading it and
I was like, now I'm curious. I want to learn
(02:20):
more about it. And so I brought it to you
and I was like, hey, Annie, tell me the history
of this thing. And I was like, oh wow, this
is not what I thought it was. All right, I
love it. Yeah, I I thought going into this, I
had like zero percent experience with liquid smoke. But now
(02:41):
that I've researched it, I realized that I do. I
just had no idea. Oh yeah, I've had it before.
Certainly you have, um yeah. I I don't think I
have a bottle currently, but it's definitely something that I
have stalked in my kitchen previously, and I'm not sure
why I don't have. I must have run out at
some point and it's never restocked. Um. Or maybe I
(03:05):
was moving at some point and realized that the bottle
that I had was like twenty years old because you
only ever used like a drop at a time, and
was like, maybe I'll just replace this after moving, and
then didn't. Um, but uh, but yeah, goodness. We have
previously done some episodes on uh barbecue certainly out in Nashville. Yes,
(03:33):
uh catch up here shares it often. Um. Yeah, I guess.
I guess many of our condiment related episodes, um, possibly
are like like, did we do an episode unprocessed cheese?
I don't remember? I think so, yeah, okay, cool. I
think we were pretty excited. You were pretty excited to
(03:53):
do that. I Oh, I always am. That's why I'm like,
I can't really separate out the times I've been excited
about says cheese. Too many to count, I understand. Um. So,
so does this bring us to our question? Yes, let's
(04:16):
get to it. Liquid smoke. What is it? Well? Uh,
liquid smoke is smoke from burning wood that has been
collected condensed into a liquid, filtered and bottled for use
as a flavoring in preservative in food. So if you've
(04:39):
ever like sat around a camp fire or a bonfire
and gone, gee, I wish I could bottle this, somebody did. Um,
it's it's it's like someone bottled smoke. I know, it's
so so wild to me. That sounds like something out
of a fairy tale. It's not. It's not that weird.
(05:01):
And we're going to get into the science of it. Um.
But but okay, uh, if if like any you you
don't feel like you've ever encountered this before, you probably
have because it's had a lot of processed foods. Um.
But yeah, Like, like when liquid smoke is applied to food,
it's not exactly like the sensory experience of the food
having been cooked by smoking. Um. Liquid smoke tends to
(05:24):
be a little less bitter or acrid um, a little
less powerful on the palate, a little bit less penetrative
unless you really take steps to like get it into
a food, which you can um. And of course, part
of what you get when you smoke a food is
texture from that food having been exposed to to to
low heat from the smoldering wood for probably a long time,
(05:46):
which can really break down connective tissue and make food
so tender. Um, and liquid smoke will not do that
on its own. Of course, you can cook food low
and slow and like a like a Dutch oven or
a croc pot or a souvie bath or something like
that for the texture, and then add a touch of
liquid smoke for the flavor. It's still not exactly the same.
(06:07):
Pit Masters, Please do not come for me, neither of
us preferably. Um. We understand you have strong opinions on this,
and we respect that absolutely. I want you to have
strong opinions about it, and then I want to eat
your barbecue like that do things that I want deeply.
(06:30):
Just I'm just saying, I'm just saying, um. But okay,
so um, smoke is super fascinating. Um, and the process
of turning it into a liquid is also super fascinating. Uh.
And let's go into that. Yeah. So, so to create
liquid smoke, you generally start by heating wood chips or
(06:51):
sawdust until they start to smolder and and smoke right. Um,
that the stage right before they produce actual fire. And
what happens when you heat something up until it's just
about to catch fire. Is that the stuff in it
starts undergoing thermal decomposition, which is the street name for
(07:12):
the physical process pyrolysis. Okay, uh you you know. You
you take a thing, you apply enough heat and it
starts breaking down into different other things. Yeah. And the
exact chemical composition of the wood in question, usually a
hardwood UM, plus the amount of moisture that contains is
going to affect the temperature at which the wood starts
(07:35):
breaking down, um, and how much smoke it produces, and
what compounds are in that smoke. You can collect that
smoke in a chamber, and if the chamber is relatively
cool and contain some water vapor, some of the stuff
in the smoke will condense and collect into this water
based liquid. And I know it sounds like magic, but
(07:56):
but but think about it this way. When you when
you smoke food over a fire, what you're doing is uh,
forcing the smoke to condense on the relatively cool food. Yeah.
So if you just get a chamber with some water
vapor in there, you're just forcing the smoke to collect
(08:17):
on the water instead of food. It's a very similar process.
M h. You sounds like you don't believe me. I do.
You're generally trustworthy. I don't know why. I'm just a
suspicious person. Generally trustworthy. I'm putting that on my business
(08:40):
card if I ever have one of those again, yes,
as you should, and then put my name under it. Contact.
You don't know who any rees is, well, well then
I don't know that I want to work with you.
(09:00):
I'll pick my cardbacks or end or madam. Uh uh.
Liquid smoke UM, alright, so so yeah, so so so
it's just smoke that's been collected basically, UM. But you
may have heard that smoke is bad for you, and
it is. Uh. That is why. After liquid smoke is collected,
(09:21):
it goes through a multi stage filtration process. UM. First,
it's usually allowed to settle for a few days. Some
of the compounds that you don't want are going to
settle right out. Then it's refined UM or or distilled
in order to remove more of the compounds that you
don't want. UM. It's a it's like a multi step
distillation process UM. And then it will be filtered to
(09:43):
remove more other compounds that you don't want UM, such
as known carcinogens like polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or p a H.
If you've ever heard that abbreviation. That's some of the
bad stuff in smoke. You don't really want it, so
they just take it out. And what you are left
with are a few groups of compounds that give liquid
smoke its color, its flavor, and it's functional properties UM,
(10:07):
all mixed into this watery base. UM. You can further
process that base to create oils or powders, and then
you can sell the liquid or oil or powder straight,
or you can further flavor and color them with stuff
like a vinegar and salt and sweeteners. Different brands will
do that. And I mentioned a functional properties and this
(10:28):
is fascinating because functionally liquid smoke can help fight food
borne pathogens UM. In this case pathogens meaning unfriendly bacteria
like Listeria, Salmonella, equali, and staff. So that's rad that's
so interesting yeah, UM. And furthermore, you can produce liquid
(10:49):
smoke products for a variety of different purposes. UM. Ones
with super mild flavors to write mostly help as anti microbials,
or ones with produced color and flavor that are used
to preserve the color in foods like raw tuna or salmon,
oh or even um, even liquid smokes that will like
(11:11):
help a food that they're treated with, um turn turn
that lovely golden brown when they're cooked. It helps Yah,
they may our reaction kick off. That's so fascinating, it is,
uh and all yeah, just just depending on depending on
what types of would you put in and how you
filter them. It's there's a lot of science there, and
(11:33):
um there's some really interesting research of of researchers like
kind of working backwards looking at these proprietary and patented
formulations and trying to figure out how it all works,
which just makes me so happy. Um. Anyway, yeah, uh.
Commercially speaking, UM, meat can be meat or or other
(11:55):
foods I suppose can be marinated or injected with liquid smoke,
and foods treated with these processes will be labeled as
smoke flavored or will have a liquid smoke or smoke
flavoring on the ingredient list. Um or this is another
thing I love. Liquid smoke can be vaporized in a
pressurized chamber to fake a smokehouse environment. What so you
(12:24):
can take you can take the collected water vapor that
contains the smoke, and you can vaporize it again, you
can like atomize it into a chamber, and if you
produce a food that way, it can just be labeled smoked.
What whoa, because it's like basically the equivalent of the
(12:49):
food having been smoked. Yeah. Wow, that's that's some chicken
and eggs stuff there my brain in this, at least
here in the United States. That's how that's how the U.
S d A or FDA labeling works. Um. But yeah,
(13:09):
so uh so, yeah, little liquid smoke is added right
to all kinds of processed foods, from ketchup to cheese,
is to impart a smoky flavor and color and also
help uh prevent microbial activity. Um. Of course, on a
personal level, you don't need to atomize your liquid smoke.
You can just put some into like a marinate or
(13:31):
a sauce or a dip or stew or dressing or
whatever recipe really to to add a little bit of
flavor and color. A little bit goes a long way.
Definitely approach with caution. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um, well,
I guess that brings us to the next question. What
(13:51):
about the nutrition. I can nearly guarantee that you are
not consuming enough to make a difference. Um, like a
whole roast would only call for like a quarter teaspoon,
which isn't much more than like a couple drops really,
So yeah, um, it can actually in that way really
(14:13):
help out in the cases of like if you if
you're on a diet that's low sodium or something like
that and you want to add flavor to foods, it
could be very helpful, um in that way. More on
the potential health effects later on. We've got a whole
section in the in the history section on that one,
so I just kind of skipped it here. But but
but basically it's safe to eat. Mm hmm. What did
(14:34):
you what did you use it in? Generally? Um? Yeah,
usually usually in a marinade. Um, or sometimes if I
wanted to get really funky with like with like a
salad dressing, like I add a drop to that. Um.
I think I used to make these, um, these double
chocolate bacon cookies. Uh. And sometimes you know, like like
(14:58):
depending on how I was feeling about the quality of
the bacon that I got, like if I had to,
you know, if I had to like slum it and
go for like you know, like regular bacon, like not
like the fancy stuff. Um, then I would add like
a drop a liquid smoke to the cookies. Oh that
sounds lovely goodness. Yeah. Um, we do have some numbers
(15:21):
for you. We do, we do. Um. So so after
all of that processing and filtering, there's still over four
hundred compounds and liquid smoke. Dang m okay um Vegan
shift Abbeth the brown test be for carrot bacon, featuring
thin strips of carrots coated in liquid smoke, among other things,
(15:44):
went viral on TikTok pretty recently. Yeah. Yeah, she air friedem.
The video has like three point seven million likes as
of today. I mean, I'm down right yeah. Acording to
Future Market Insights, the global liquid smoke market was valued
at sixty five million dollars and as a full of
(16:11):
the liquid smoke made was going to processed meat products. UM.
At the time, North America was using a little over
a third of the world's supply, with Europe not far behind,
but the market in Asia Pacific was growing the fastest.
Mm hmm. Well, it's got a lot of uses and
it also has a very interesting history. It does, okay,
(16:35):
and we are going to get into that after we
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsor. Then we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay,
So please do not pick me go into a history
(16:56):
of smoking meat. Not today, not today. I won't. Don't
worry Annie, You're safe. You're safe today. I have come
for you later. Yes, but just no, humans have been
doing that in a variety of ways, variety of methods,
(17:19):
variety of reasons, um for a very very long time. Yes,
and the I I had a very similar feeling at
the top of the science section when I started doing
this research. I was like, oh, no, what have I done?
What have I done? Yes? I think if we that
(17:41):
could be a home Well I mean maybe not even
a minute. Here was a series, but I know we've
like toyed with doing barbecue before. And then it's just like,
so it's so big and so specific to certain regions.
Are yeah, yeah, you really have to talk to like
several experts from each region in order to cover it
appropriate name. Yes, So we will tackle that the later
(18:05):
dates in a later date. But today we are talking
about liquid smoke. Yes, yes, And according to most sources,
liquid smoke was invented in eight by a pharmacist by
the name of Ernest H. Wright in Kansas City, Missouri.
And for those of you who are familiar with brands
(18:26):
of liquid smoke, yes that right, which is funny because
you put that in and I was like, no, what right?
I don't know, But now I'm going to keep a
lookout now that I know what this is. Okay, it's
still one of the mains. It's still one of the
major brands on the market today. So it is yes,
(18:46):
yes um in an expert from the nine edition of
The Rotarian Right describes how he got the inspiration for
liquid smoke when he was working in a print shop
as a teen, and specifically, quote a drop of liquid
trickling down the stovepipe really just got his mind worrying
about this. And apparently this whole thing was something that
(19:09):
really stuck with him because ten years later after this
time at the print shop, he realized that when smoke
comes into contact with cold air, it condenses. So to
test the idea, he got some hickory wood, lit it
on fire, ran the smoke through a condenser, and collected
the droplets. He found that these droplets were a viable,
(19:30):
cheap and tasty alternative for smoking meat, and he coated
some ham with some of it and served it to
friends without their knowledge to arrive at that bet. Which
this is like the third time we've had an experiment
like this episodes. All right, and is um liquid smoke
(19:54):
is generally black, right, yeah, yeah, it's it's usually pretty
dark in color. Okay, Yeah, because that was kind of
a detailed people some sources put in. Some didn't was
whether or not in his memory it was just black
drop of liquid or not, but it seems like it was.
It can it can range from like a from like
a sepia brown to like a black sort of color
and um, and different brands will sometimes add like a
(20:15):
caramel coloring to it to make it browner or um.
But but yeah, yeah, okay, deep in color, deep in color,
all right. Um. In the early days of the discovery
of liquid smoke, it was used primarily as a preservative
and less as a way to add flavoring to food.
(20:37):
Much of Wright's business was in the South at this time.
Or farmers mostly smoke types of pork in order to
preserve the pork because they had a real issue when
it came to bugs laying eggs and pieces of meat
that they would hang up in the smokehouse, and smoking
meat was more of a necessity and less something done
for flavor. Um. In fact, smoking meats for taste was
(21:00):
fairly limited to camp fires or maybe the occasional summer barbecue. Again,
at this time, by marketing his product as a preservative
and a cheap one to prevent you know, these flies
from laying eggs in your meat. Right, made a lot
of money. And yes I didn't know this, but you
(21:20):
can see by the product to this day. Mm hmmmmmm.
In Dallas is Southern Mercury newspaper feature to quote from
a man advising against using a smokehouse in Texas, and
it went like this, I abominate the smokehouse in this country.
Flies are out all winter and will lay their eggs
(21:41):
on your meat. You cannot keep them out. No used
to try it. If you must have the smoke flavor,
you can get the liquid smoke and paint your meat
before you put it down. As someone who's struggling with
fruit flies right now, I can appreciate you, no legit.
It didn't take long for others to try to copy
(22:04):
right success, which wasn't very right ironic because the story
goes he refused to patent his product out of fear
that it would be copied if he patented it. Well, yep,
UM figure oh first founded in nineteen o four. UM
that it's a company that's now owned by the same
company that makes Crystal Hot sauce started producing their own
(22:24):
liquid smoke, as did Colgan or Cold Gin. Perhaps I'm
not sure. Yeah, UM first founded in Texas. UM also
started selling their own liquid smoke. UM and they were
also selling it in these early days, primarily as a preservative.
That being said, there were certainly people who were wary
(22:48):
of this product. A in Waco, Texas at A nine six.
I don't know what it is anyway, it is a liquid,
and they use it and put meat in it. Into
a certain extent, it is poisoness, Okay, goodness right right
himself addressed these complaints and narratives in that nine rotarian interview, UM, saying,
(23:13):
it is not easy to get people to abandon the
old way for the new, and it has been hard
to get people to take this liquid smoke seriously. Well, well,
indeed that did change a bit. UM with the proliferation
of American suburbia, complete with the backyard get togethers, and
barbecues in the nineteen fifties and sixties, which led to
(23:36):
this growing taste for smokier flavor, so not just as
a preservative, but also as a flavor that, along with
the preference for products of convenience at this time, shifted
Americans views of liquid smoke from this preservative only kind
of thing to something that belonged in their kitchens as
a flavoring agent. After the FDA deemed to the local
(23:57):
smoke as safe to eat in nineteen sixty, it didn't
take long for it to wind up in homes and
in products like ketchups, barbecue sauces, oysters, cheeses, and bacon. Later,
the cult favorite, which I guess just came out as
we're recording this again, the mic rib. It's mac rib
(24:20):
time again already. Heck, I am so confused by this
all mc rib thing. We'll have to come back and
revisit that one. Okay, definitely explain it to me, Lauren.
But yes, people would put it in all kinds of things, fish, eggs, dips,
sliced hot dogs. It was almost as commonly found in
(24:43):
American homes as ketchup at one point. Um and that
whole trend didn't really start to downturn until the eighties.
And you know, also, as we mentioned earlier and kind
of alluded to, uh, these days, this product has a
lot of detractors. Meat and barbecue lover Josh Ozerski wrote
in two thousand nine, liquid smoke is one of the
(25:05):
most revolting substances known to man and anathema to any
real cook. Wow. Yeah, many chefs see it's I don't
know if many is correct, but I think a decent
amount of chefs see it as a way of cheating
or lying. Yeah. The the article in Texas Monthly, um
(25:30):
that that that printed that quote UM, written by one
Daniel Vaughan, went on to say, in certain circles, using
the substitute is worse than deceptive, it's flat out cheating.
Even the most hardheaded, hug matic North Carolinian would agree
with a beef loving Texan that meat and fire are
(25:50):
the essence of barbecue. Oh that's some burn. Yeah. Yeah.
Also I love the word hog matic. That's amazing. That's amazing,
Thank you, thank you, Daniel von Um. The title of
(26:11):
that article in Texas Monthly, by the way, I believe
it was published in the title was liquid smoke colon
the instant coffee of barbecue. Yes, and there was a
picture of instant coffee and a lot of remarks about
like not appreciating the real thing. It was very it
(26:34):
was very intense, and I loved every every word of it. Um.
It was those strong opinions we mentioned earlier, that was
full of them. But yes, recently people and organizations have
been raising concerns about the health of liquid smoke. How
could impact health? Yeah, so okay, So there's a few
(26:56):
things going on here with this. Um. For in the
past several years, there's been some new research into compounds
in both smoke and in charred foods being bad for you. Um.
And that coupled with misinformation and misconceptions about what liquid
smoke is and how it's made, is kind of uh,
(27:19):
those two things are coming together to to have this
sort of non opinion that liquid smoke is bad for you. Again,
liquid smoke is filtered to remove maybe not all, but
but certainly some of the bad stuff. Um. So Like,
even though just smoking a piece of meat or a
carrot or whatever is technically more natural, liquid smoke is
(27:41):
almost certainly safer. Um. Yes, even though it is a
manufactured product. I know that that's counterintuitive to what our
our brains try to tell us about, like, oh, just
do the real thing like sometimes some sometimes the manufactured
thing is safer. UM. Second of all, starting around there
(28:03):
was some research into these groups of compounds that are
found in some plant based foods like tea and coffee
and liquid smoke UM, that are capable of damaging our DNA.
Don't panic, UM, it's super interesting. The researchers pointed out
that that some of this is probably due to the
(28:25):
like mammal deterring natural defense system that plants have UM
and in different ones like tough cellulose in stems that
we burn for liquid smoke, UM, the bitter tannins in
tea and coffee plants, and we are flat out ignoring
those natural defense systems when we eat and enjoy those plants. UM. Again,
(28:47):
don't panic. Though, further research has indicated that that stuff
and our saliva combined to and prevent damage from those compounds,
and further that ourselves probably have the capacity to adapt
to exposure to these compounds over the course of like
just a couple of weeks to inhibit further DNA damage.
UM implying that we co evolved with these plants to
(29:11):
handle their defense systems. I love that. Yeah, Tony doesn't.
We're like we're going to They're like, well, well yeah yeah,
because like the the initial the initial findings were, we're
like kind of panic inducing, which is why I'm like,
(29:32):
don't panic. But no, it was kind of like, yeah,
these these compounds are just as capable of damaging your
DNA as like chemotherapy treatment stuff, which is quite capable
of damaging your d NA. UM. But then it was like,
oh no, no, hold on, hold on, it's okay. Yeah,
so yes, uh, super interesting, don't panic. UM. And on
(29:56):
the other hand, in twenty eleven, UM a study came
out that found that liquid smoke made using rice hulls
instead of wood uh contained some compounds with potentially positive
benefits like antioxidants, anti allergens, and anti inflammatories. UM, and
liquid smoke produced like this would also helps solve the
problem of what the heck to do with rice hulls,
(30:17):
which often aren't put to use and of which the
rice industry worldwide produced some hundred thirty six million tons
per year at the time of the study. UH. Like
for for every pound of rice you produce, you produce
about like a fifth of a pound of hull. So yeah.
Um the wood, by the way to produce liquid smoke
is often a byproduct of the lumber industry, so also
(30:41):
a byproduct product. Yeah, I like that. That'd be cool.
Get these holes. What do you use yeah, ko of
the lumber industry, Get some liquid smoke, right, No, no,
get some good stuff out of it. Who knows? Yes,
I want to use it in a cocktail. Oh yeah, okay,
(31:06):
I will add to my list. I am going to experiment,
for sure. Although I do have a running joke because
there's certain items, like you said, use like a drop
out of time, you probably don't use it super often. Um,
So I joke I'm gonna be buried with my blue bottle,
my bottle to curus ow. I'll add the liquid smoke
(31:29):
to that list. Any with her blue curros, with her
little smoke, She loved them in her day. But I
want to lay a drop at a time a little
less time, for sure. But I'm excited. I'm excited to experiment.
Yeah yeah. And I do like the idea of like
(31:52):
using it with vegetables and stuff. Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yes,
all right, Well, that's about what we have to say
on liquid Smoke for now. It is. We do have
some listener mail for you, though, and we are going
to get into that after we get back from a
quick break for a word from our sponsor. And we're back.
(32:19):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
disappearing in a puff of smoke. Oh man, that's my favorite.
I won't call it bad decision, but interesting decision you
(32:41):
all have made in the Dungeons and Dragons campaign is
that you threw a bunch of smoke bombs at the enemy,
but then you couldn't see either, and you were in
a room with no real way out. I would like
to point out for the record that that was not
my character's decision. No, it was not. But it was
(33:02):
quite funny because it's not like I, as the villain
in this scenario, couldn't see either. So there was just
like a minute of flailing. Yeah, there was some genuine
confusion on both sides. Uh, it was very funny, it was.
I thought it was hilarious. I also because I was like,
(33:25):
because it wasn't just one smooth bomb, it was more
than one, and I was just like to clarify, Uh
now you cannot see either. There was a silence, yeah,
and then it was like, well, I guess not, let
(33:47):
us continue, try to hit it if you can, yeah, yeah,
and and being uh uh yeah, I'm playing I'm playing
a palattin character who who doesn't who mostly just hits
things with her halberd um. But so so I was like, well,
(34:08):
if I guess I'm just running into that cloud of
smoke now and attempting to hit something with this, and
you did it all worked out. It was just quite funny,
quite funny anyway. Anyway, Kim wrote, I'm a longtime listener
(34:34):
and happened to be an American living in the Netherlands.
I can indeed confirm that the cheese is pronounced howda
here with a guttural gh sound, which, yes, I know
I didn't do that, but I gave an attempt. Kim
continues at the beginning, Duch is a super difficult language
to speak for non natives, and I don't pretend that
(34:55):
I can say much of anything correctly, but of this,
I'm sure odocas is the best, and Kim put in
a pronunciation note pronounced odocast with a long oh like
and show. So thank you thanks for helping me learn
a bit more about my adopted home. And I can
totally recommend any of the local cheese museums if you too,
(35:17):
ever visit so many cheese samples so little ji. Yes,
I'm vibrating with excitement about this. She literally is folks.
So that sounds so great. Oh my goodness that she
is experienced. Uh goodness, yeah, oh gonna. I I'm forgetting
(35:41):
the humans name. But someone wrote in on Twitter like, oh,
I'm so excited. I just saw that you guys are
doing a gooda episode and then like thirty minutes later
like not even like like kind of immediately afterwards was like, yeah,
it's definitely pronounced like this, and I was like, heck,
well no, but thank you, thank you seriously. Pronunciation notes
(36:03):
are always always always welcome. Yes, yes, for sure, uh
Fain wrote, I just wanted to write in to request
a topic and say thank you for the podcast. There's
something incredibly satisfying about learning facts, numbers and the origin
story of foods. I've honestly gotten a little addicted to it.
I just listened to the horse Chat, a podcast and
reminded me of my time in Spain. Don't worry you
(36:25):
guys killed the pronunciations. Yes, yes, anyways, I'm in a
Spanish class right now and I was going to give
a presentation on top us, which I'm sure you know
what they are, but if you don't, they're small portions
of savory Spanish dishes served at bars, usually with alcoholic beverages.
I was hoping you had made one because I totally
would have stolen all your research on it for my project.
(36:45):
Just kidding, but now I know the reality of these
food rabbit holes and the difficulty of finding legitimate sources.
So much respect to YouTube for consolidating all that information
into a single podcast. I already made the presentation, but
my request still stands for tap Us being one of
the upcoming episodes. I want to see what else I missed. Well,
(37:06):
thank you, that's very kind. Yes, and feel free to steal.
Oh goodness, yeah yeah, um oh man, yeah. I wish
we still had a website with like a blog where
it was easy to put up links to the articles
that we've read for all of this. UM. If you
ever have a curiosity about a specific source, always feel
(37:26):
free to write in UM and tap us. Oh my goodness,
I love a tap us. Um. I know that that's
not the correct tense of that, but yeah, yes, that's uh.
One of the types of restaurants that I really miss
having an in restaurant experience of is Tapa style dining. Yes,
(37:47):
me as well, because I want to try everything. Yeah,
but I need the space to try everything. Yeah. Oh
and so right, so just get like a lot of
friends and uh so much good Spanish wine. Spanish wine
is kind of my favorite anyway. They like a lot
of the places in town have like live bands all
(38:08):
the time. It's it's so nice. It is nice. I
do miss top us maybe one day soon. Another thing
to add to the list, both our list of stuff
to do and our episode list to eventually tackle. Yes,
thank you to both of those listeners for writing in.
(38:32):
If you would like to write to us, we would
love to hear from you. Our email is Hello at
favorite pods dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver
is production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(38:55):
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection. I Heart Radio. I'm
Anny Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have
an episode for you about liquid Smoke. Yes, which is
a great name for a band, I think, Oh yeah,
one uh two. I had a complete misconception of what
(00:28):
this is, and it's one of those things that now
that I know what it is, I'm like, well, of
course that's what it is. Like, why did I think
it was something else? Basically I felt like it was
almost the equivalent of dry ice or something. Okay, Okay,
I don't know. I thought that it's in the name.
(00:49):
Actually it's fairly straightforward. Maybe I'm so used to it
not being forward. I guess that's fair. I guess that
based on um, you know, your personal experience out in
the world and certainly on the show, there's any number
of items that are not what they say on the label.
(01:10):
So yeah, yes, I also love that we're doing this
one right after Halloween. It feels kind of in the
Halloween vein sure, very very fall like wooden wood fire
smokes are a big part of my fall anyway, So yes, Um,
was there any particular impetus behind this one? Goodness. Um. So.
(01:35):
So one of the other shows that I do here
at I heeart Um called brain Stuff is a short
form science show. It airs every day, so I've done
like one thousand one episodes of it and I something
like that, and I'm constantly trolling the How Stuff Works.
(01:58):
Are trolling perhaps the how stuff Works website um for
for articles to pull to pull from and turn into
these scripts and turn into this podcast. It's a whole
deal that we have worked out with how Stuff Works.
And they have an article up on liquid smoke and
I was like, huh, and I was reading it and
I was like, now I'm curious. I want to learn
(02:20):
more about it. And so I brought it to you
and I was like, hey, Annie, tell me the history
of this thing. And I was like, oh wow, this
is not what I thought it was. All right, I
love it. Yeah, I I thought going into this, I
had like zero percent experience with liquid smoke. But now
(02:41):
that I've researched it, I realized that I do. I
just had no idea. Oh yeah, I've had it before.
Certainly you have, um yeah. I I don't think I
have a bottle currently, but it's definitely something that I
have stalked in my kitchen previously, and I'm not sure
why I don't have. I must have run out at
some point and it's never restocked. Um. Or maybe I
(03:05):
was moving at some point and realized that the bottle
that I had was like twenty years old because you
only ever used like a drop at a time, and
was like, maybe I'll just replace this after moving, and
then didn't. Um, but uh, but yeah, goodness. We have
previously done some episodes on uh barbecue certainly out in Nashville. Yes,
(03:33):
uh catch up here shares it often. Um. Yeah, I guess.
I guess many of our condiment related episodes, um, possibly
are like like, did we do an episode unprocessed cheese?
I don't remember? I think so, yeah, okay, cool. I
think we were pretty excited. You were pretty excited to
(03:53):
do that. I Oh, I always am. That's why I'm like,
I can't really separate out the times I've been excited
about says cheese. Too many to count, I understand. Um. So,
so does this bring us to our question? Yes, let's
(04:16):
get to it. Liquid smoke. What is it? Well? Uh,
liquid smoke is smoke from burning wood that has been
collected condensed into a liquid, filtered and bottled for use
as a flavoring in preservative in food. So if you've
(04:39):
ever like sat around a camp fire or a bonfire
and gone, gee, I wish I could bottle this, somebody did. Um,
it's it's it's like someone bottled smoke. I know, it's
so so wild to me. That sounds like something out
of a fairy tale. It's not. It's not that weird.
(05:01):
And we're going to get into the science of it. Um.
But but okay, uh, if if like any you you
don't feel like you've ever encountered this before, you probably
have because it's had a lot of processed foods. Um.
But yeah, Like, like when liquid smoke is applied to food,
it's not exactly like the sensory experience of the food
having been cooked by smoking. Um. Liquid smoke tends to
(05:24):
be a little less bitter or acrid um, a little
less powerful on the palate, a little bit less penetrative
unless you really take steps to like get it into
a food, which you can um. And of course, part
of what you get when you smoke a food is
texture from that food having been exposed to to to
low heat from the smoldering wood for probably a long time,
(05:46):
which can really break down connective tissue and make food
so tender. Um, and liquid smoke will not do that
on its own. Of course, you can cook food low
and slow and like a like a Dutch oven or
a croc pot or a souvie bath or something like
that for the texture, and then add a touch of
liquid smoke for the flavor. It's still not exactly the same.
(06:07):
Pit Masters, Please do not come for me, neither of
us preferably. Um. We understand you have strong opinions on this,
and we respect that absolutely. I want you to have
strong opinions about it, and then I want to eat
your barbecue like that do things that I want deeply.
(06:30):
Just I'm just saying, I'm just saying, um. But okay,
so um, smoke is super fascinating. Um, and the process
of turning it into a liquid is also super fascinating. Uh.
And let's go into that. Yeah. So, so to create
liquid smoke, you generally start by heating wood chips or
(06:51):
sawdust until they start to smolder and and smoke right. Um,
that the stage right before they produce actual fire. And
what happens when you heat something up until it's just
about to catch fire. Is that the stuff in it
starts undergoing thermal decomposition, which is the street name for
(07:12):
the physical process pyrolysis. Okay, uh you you know. You
you take a thing, you apply enough heat and it
starts breaking down into different other things. Yeah. And the
exact chemical composition of the wood in question, usually a
hardwood UM, plus the amount of moisture that contains is
going to affect the temperature at which the wood starts
(07:35):
breaking down, um, and how much smoke it produces, and
what compounds are in that smoke. You can collect that
smoke in a chamber, and if the chamber is relatively
cool and contain some water vapor, some of the stuff
in the smoke will condense and collect into this water
based liquid. And I know it sounds like magic, but
(07:56):
but but think about it this way. When you when
you smoke food over a fire, what you're doing is uh,
forcing the smoke to condense on the relatively cool food. Yeah.
So if you just get a chamber with some water
vapor in there, you're just forcing the smoke to collect
(08:17):
on the water instead of food. It's a very similar process.
M h. You sounds like you don't believe me. I do.
You're generally trustworthy. I don't know why. I'm just a
suspicious person. Generally trustworthy. I'm putting that on my business
(08:40):
card if I ever have one of those again, yes,
as you should, and then put my name under it. Contact.
You don't know who any rees is, well, well then
I don't know that I want to work with you.
(09:00):
I'll pick my cardbacks or end or madam. Uh uh.
Liquid smoke UM, alright, so so yeah, so so so
it's just smoke that's been collected basically, UM. But you
may have heard that smoke is bad for you, and
it is. Uh. That is why. After liquid smoke is collected,
(09:21):
it goes through a multi stage filtration process. UM. First,
it's usually allowed to settle for a few days. Some
of the compounds that you don't want are going to
settle right out. Then it's refined UM or or distilled
in order to remove more of the compounds that you
don't want. UM. It's a it's like a multi step
distillation process UM. And then it will be filtered to
(09:43):
remove more other compounds that you don't want UM, such
as known carcinogens like polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons or p a H.
If you've ever heard that abbreviation. That's some of the
bad stuff in smoke. You don't really want it, so
they just take it out. And what you are left
with are a few groups of compounds that give liquid
smoke its color, its flavor, and it's functional properties UM,
(10:07):
all mixed into this watery base. UM. You can further
process that base to create oils or powders, and then
you can sell the liquid or oil or powder straight,
or you can further flavor and color them with stuff
like a vinegar and salt and sweeteners. Different brands will
do that. And I mentioned a functional properties and this
(10:28):
is fascinating because functionally liquid smoke can help fight food
borne pathogens UM. In this case pathogens meaning unfriendly bacteria
like Listeria, Salmonella, equali, and staff. So that's rad that's
so interesting yeah, UM. And furthermore, you can produce liquid
(10:49):
smoke products for a variety of different purposes. UM. Ones
with super mild flavors to write mostly help as anti microbials,
or ones with produced color and flavor that are used
to preserve the color in foods like raw tuna or salmon,
oh or even um, even liquid smokes that will like
(11:11):
help a food that they're treated with, um turn turn
that lovely golden brown when they're cooked. It helps Yah,
they may our reaction kick off. That's so fascinating, it is,
uh and all yeah, just just depending on depending on
what types of would you put in and how you
filter them. It's there's a lot of science there, and
(11:33):
um there's some really interesting research of of researchers like
kind of working backwards looking at these proprietary and patented
formulations and trying to figure out how it all works,
which just makes me so happy. Um. Anyway, yeah, uh.
Commercially speaking, UM, meat can be meat or or other
(11:55):
foods I suppose can be marinated or injected with liquid smoke,
and foods treated with these processes will be labeled as
smoke flavored or will have a liquid smoke or smoke
flavoring on the ingredient list. Um or this is another
thing I love. Liquid smoke can be vaporized in a
pressurized chamber to fake a smokehouse environment. What so you
(12:24):
can take you can take the collected water vapor that
contains the smoke, and you can vaporize it again, you
can like atomize it into a chamber, and if you
produce a food that way, it can just be labeled smoked.
What whoa, because it's like basically the equivalent of the
(12:49):
food having been smoked. Yeah. Wow, that's that's some chicken
and eggs stuff there my brain in this, at least
here in the United States. That's how that's how the U.
S d A or FDA labeling works. Um. But yeah,
(13:09):
so uh so, yeah, little liquid smoke is added right
to all kinds of processed foods, from ketchup to cheese,
is to impart a smoky flavor and color and also
help uh prevent microbial activity. Um. Of course, on a
personal level, you don't need to atomize your liquid smoke.
You can just put some into like a marinate or
(13:31):
a sauce or a dip or stew or dressing or
whatever recipe really to to add a little bit of
flavor and color. A little bit goes a long way.
Definitely approach with caution. That makes sense. That makes sense. Um, well,
I guess that brings us to the next question. What
(13:51):
about the nutrition. I can nearly guarantee that you are
not consuming enough to make a difference. Um, like a
whole roast would only call for like a quarter teaspoon,
which isn't much more than like a couple drops really,
So yeah, um, it can actually in that way really
(14:13):
help out in the cases of like if you if
you're on a diet that's low sodium or something like
that and you want to add flavor to foods, it
could be very helpful, um in that way. More on
the potential health effects later on. We've got a whole
section in the in the history section on that one,
so I just kind of skipped it here. But but
but basically it's safe to eat. Mm hmm. What did
(14:34):
you what did you use it in? Generally? Um? Yeah,
usually usually in a marinade. Um, or sometimes if I
wanted to get really funky with like with like a
salad dressing, like I add a drop to that. Um.
I think I used to make these, um, these double
chocolate bacon cookies. Uh. And sometimes you know, like like
(14:58):
depending on how I was feeling about the quality of
the bacon that I got, like if I had to,
you know, if I had to like slum it and
go for like you know, like regular bacon, like not
like the fancy stuff. Um, then I would add like
a drop a liquid smoke to the cookies. Oh that
sounds lovely goodness. Yeah. Um, we do have some numbers
(15:21):
for you. We do, we do. Um. So so after
all of that processing and filtering, there's still over four
hundred compounds and liquid smoke. Dang m okay um Vegan
shift Abbeth the brown test be for carrot bacon, featuring
thin strips of carrots coated in liquid smoke, among other things,
(15:44):
went viral on TikTok pretty recently. Yeah. Yeah, she air friedem.
The video has like three point seven million likes as
of today. I mean, I'm down right yeah. Acording to
Future Market Insights, the global liquid smoke market was valued
at sixty five million dollars and as a full of
(16:11):
the liquid smoke made was going to processed meat products. UM.
At the time, North America was using a little over
a third of the world's supply, with Europe not far behind,
but the market in Asia Pacific was growing the fastest.
Mm hmm. Well, it's got a lot of uses and
it also has a very interesting history. It does, okay,
(16:35):
and we are going to get into that after we
get back from a quick break for a word from
our sponsor. Then we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. Okay,
So please do not pick me go into a history
(16:56):
of smoking meat. Not today, not today. I won't. Don't
worry Annie, You're safe. You're safe today. I have come
for you later. Yes, but just no, humans have been
doing that in a variety of ways, variety of methods,
(17:19):
variety of reasons, um for a very very long time. Yes,
and the I I had a very similar feeling at
the top of the science section when I started doing
this research. I was like, oh, no, what have I done?
What have I done? Yes? I think if we that
(17:41):
could be a home Well I mean maybe not even
a minute. Here was a series, but I know we've
like toyed with doing barbecue before. And then it's just like,
so it's so big and so specific to certain regions.
Are yeah, yeah, you really have to talk to like
several experts from each region in order to cover it
appropriate name. Yes, So we will tackle that the later
(18:05):
dates in a later date. But today we are talking
about liquid smoke. Yes, yes, And according to most sources,
liquid smoke was invented in eight by a pharmacist by
the name of Ernest H. Wright in Kansas City, Missouri.
And for those of you who are familiar with brands
(18:26):
of liquid smoke, yes that right, which is funny because
you put that in and I was like, no, what right?
I don't know, But now I'm going to keep a
lookout now that I know what this is. Okay, it's
still one of the mains. It's still one of the
major brands on the market today. So it is yes,
(18:46):
yes um in an expert from the nine edition of
The Rotarian Right describes how he got the inspiration for
liquid smoke when he was working in a print shop
as a teen, and specifically, quote a drop of liquid
trickling down the stovepipe really just got his mind worrying
about this. And apparently this whole thing was something that
(19:09):
really stuck with him because ten years later after this
time at the print shop, he realized that when smoke
comes into contact with cold air, it condenses. So to
test the idea, he got some hickory wood, lit it
on fire, ran the smoke through a condenser, and collected
the droplets. He found that these droplets were a viable,
(19:30):
cheap and tasty alternative for smoking meat, and he coated
some ham with some of it and served it to
friends without their knowledge to arrive at that bet. Which
this is like the third time we've had an experiment
like this episodes. All right, and is um liquid smoke
(19:54):
is generally black, right, yeah, yeah, it's it's usually pretty
dark in color. Okay, Yeah, because that was kind of
a detailed people some sources put in. Some didn't was
whether or not in his memory it was just black
drop of liquid or not, but it seems like it was.
It can it can range from like a from like
a sepia brown to like a black sort of color
and um, and different brands will sometimes add like a
(20:15):
caramel coloring to it to make it browner or um.
But but yeah, yeah, okay, deep in color, deep in color,
all right. Um. In the early days of the discovery
of liquid smoke, it was used primarily as a preservative
and less as a way to add flavoring to food.
(20:37):
Much of Wright's business was in the South at this time.
Or farmers mostly smoke types of pork in order to
preserve the pork because they had a real issue when
it came to bugs laying eggs and pieces of meat
that they would hang up in the smokehouse, and smoking
meat was more of a necessity and less something done
for flavor. Um. In fact, smoking meats for taste was
(21:00):
fairly limited to camp fires or maybe the occasional summer barbecue. Again,
at this time, by marketing his product as a preservative
and a cheap one to prevent you know, these flies
from laying eggs in your meat. Right, made a lot
of money. And yes I didn't know this, but you
(21:20):
can see by the product to this day. Mm hmmmmmm.
In Dallas is Southern Mercury newspaper feature to quote from
a man advising against using a smokehouse in Texas, and
it went like this, I abominate the smokehouse in this country.
Flies are out all winter and will lay their eggs
(21:41):
on your meat. You cannot keep them out. No used
to try it. If you must have the smoke flavor,
you can get the liquid smoke and paint your meat
before you put it down. As someone who's struggling with
fruit flies right now, I can appreciate you, no legit.
It didn't take long for others to try to copy
(22:04):
right success, which wasn't very right ironic because the story
goes he refused to patent his product out of fear
that it would be copied if he patented it. Well, yep,
UM figure oh first founded in nineteen o four. UM
that it's a company that's now owned by the same
company that makes Crystal Hot sauce started producing their own
(22:24):
liquid smoke, as did Colgan or Cold Gin. Perhaps I'm
not sure. Yeah, UM first founded in Texas. UM also
started selling their own liquid smoke. UM and they were
also selling it in these early days, primarily as a preservative.
That being said, there were certainly people who were wary
(22:48):
of this product. A in Waco, Texas at A nine six.
I don't know what it is anyway, it is a liquid,
and they use it and put meat in it. Into
a certain extent, it is poisoness, Okay, goodness right right
himself addressed these complaints and narratives in that nine rotarian interview, UM, saying,
(23:13):
it is not easy to get people to abandon the
old way for the new, and it has been hard
to get people to take this liquid smoke seriously. Well, well,
indeed that did change a bit. UM with the proliferation
of American suburbia, complete with the backyard get togethers, and
barbecues in the nineteen fifties and sixties, which led to
(23:36):
this growing taste for smokier flavor, so not just as
a preservative, but also as a flavor that, along with
the preference for products of convenience at this time, shifted
Americans views of liquid smoke from this preservative only kind
of thing to something that belonged in their kitchens as
a flavoring agent. After the FDA deemed to the local
(23:57):
smoke as safe to eat in nineteen sixty, it didn't
take long for it to wind up in homes and
in products like ketchups, barbecue sauces, oysters, cheeses, and bacon. Later,
the cult favorite, which I guess just came out as
we're recording this again, the mic rib. It's mac rib
(24:20):
time again already. Heck, I am so confused by this
all mc rib thing. We'll have to come back and
revisit that one. Okay, definitely explain it to me, Lauren.
But yes, people would put it in all kinds of things, fish, eggs, dips,
sliced hot dogs. It was almost as commonly found in
(24:43):
American homes as ketchup at one point. Um and that
whole trend didn't really start to downturn until the eighties.
And you know, also, as we mentioned earlier and kind
of alluded to, uh, these days, this product has a
lot of detractors. Meat and barbecue lover Josh Ozerski wrote
in two thousand nine, liquid smoke is one of the
(25:05):
most revolting substances known to man and anathema to any
real cook. Wow. Yeah, many chefs see it's I don't
know if many is correct, but I think a decent
amount of chefs see it as a way of cheating
or lying. Yeah. The the article in Texas Monthly, um
(25:30):
that that that printed that quote UM, written by one
Daniel Vaughan, went on to say, in certain circles, using
the substitute is worse than deceptive, it's flat out cheating.
Even the most hardheaded, hug matic North Carolinian would agree
with a beef loving Texan that meat and fire are
(25:50):
the essence of barbecue. Oh that's some burn. Yeah. Yeah.
Also I love the word hog matic. That's amazing. That's amazing,
Thank you, thank you, Daniel von Um. The title of
(26:11):
that article in Texas Monthly, by the way, I believe
it was published in the title was liquid smoke colon
the instant coffee of barbecue. Yes, and there was a
picture of instant coffee and a lot of remarks about
like not appreciating the real thing. It was very it
(26:34):
was very intense, and I loved every every word of it. Um.
It was those strong opinions we mentioned earlier, that was
full of them. But yes, recently people and organizations have
been raising concerns about the health of liquid smoke. How
could impact health? Yeah, so okay, So there's a few
(26:56):
things going on here with this. Um. For in the
past several years, there's been some new research into compounds
in both smoke and in charred foods being bad for you. Um.
And that coupled with misinformation and misconceptions about what liquid
smoke is and how it's made, is kind of uh,
(27:19):
those two things are coming together to to have this
sort of non opinion that liquid smoke is bad for you. Again,
liquid smoke is filtered to remove maybe not all, but
but certainly some of the bad stuff. Um. So Like,
even though just smoking a piece of meat or a
carrot or whatever is technically more natural, liquid smoke is
(27:41):
almost certainly safer. Um. Yes, even though it is a
manufactured product. I know that that's counterintuitive to what our
our brains try to tell us about, like, oh, just
do the real thing like sometimes some sometimes the manufactured
thing is safer. UM. Second of all, starting around there
(28:03):
was some research into these groups of compounds that are
found in some plant based foods like tea and coffee
and liquid smoke UM, that are capable of damaging our DNA.
Don't panic, UM, it's super interesting. The researchers pointed out
that that some of this is probably due to the
(28:25):
like mammal deterring natural defense system that plants have UM
and in different ones like tough cellulose in stems that
we burn for liquid smoke, UM, the bitter tannins in
tea and coffee plants, and we are flat out ignoring
those natural defense systems when we eat and enjoy those plants. UM. Again,
(28:47):
don't panic. Though, further research has indicated that that stuff
and our saliva combined to and prevent damage from those compounds,
and further that ourselves probably have the capacity to adapt
to exposure to these compounds over the course of like
just a couple of weeks to inhibit further DNA damage.
UM implying that we co evolved with these plants to
(29:11):
handle their defense systems. I love that. Yeah, Tony doesn't.
We're like we're going to They're like, well, well yeah yeah,
because like the the initial the initial findings were, we're
like kind of panic inducing, which is why I'm like,
(29:32):
don't panic. But no, it was kind of like, yeah,
these these compounds are just as capable of damaging your
DNA as like chemotherapy treatment stuff, which is quite capable
of damaging your d NA. UM. But then it was like,
oh no, no, hold on, hold on, it's okay. Yeah,
so yes, uh, super interesting, don't panic. UM. And on
(29:56):
the other hand, in twenty eleven, UM a study came
out that found that liquid smoke made using rice hulls
instead of wood uh contained some compounds with potentially positive
benefits like antioxidants, anti allergens, and anti inflammatories. UM, and
liquid smoke produced like this would also helps solve the
problem of what the heck to do with rice hulls,
(30:17):
which often aren't put to use and of which the
rice industry worldwide produced some hundred thirty six million tons
per year at the time of the study. UH. Like
for for every pound of rice you produce, you produce
about like a fifth of a pound of hull. So yeah.
Um the wood, by the way to produce liquid smoke
is often a byproduct of the lumber industry, so also
(30:41):
a byproduct product. Yeah, I like that. That'd be cool.
Get these holes. What do you use yeah, ko of
the lumber industry, Get some liquid smoke, right, No, no,
get some good stuff out of it. Who knows? Yes,
I want to use it in a cocktail. Oh yeah, okay,
(31:06):
I will add to my list. I am going to experiment,
for sure. Although I do have a running joke because
there's certain items, like you said, use like a drop
out of time, you probably don't use it super often. Um,
So I joke I'm gonna be buried with my blue bottle,
my bottle to curus ow. I'll add the liquid smoke
(31:29):
to that list. Any with her blue curros, with her
little smoke, She loved them in her day. But I
want to lay a drop at a time a little
less time, for sure. But I'm excited. I'm excited to experiment.
Yeah yeah. And I do like the idea of like
(31:52):
using it with vegetables and stuff. Oh absolutely, yeah, yeah, yes,
all right, Well, that's about what we have to say
on liquid Smoke for now. It is. We do have
some listener mail for you, though, and we are going
to get into that after we get back from a
quick break for a word from our sponsor. And we're back.
(32:19):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
disappearing in a puff of smoke. Oh man, that's my favorite.
I won't call it bad decision, but interesting decision you
(32:41):
all have made in the Dungeons and Dragons campaign is
that you threw a bunch of smoke bombs at the enemy,
but then you couldn't see either, and you were in
a room with no real way out. I would like
to point out for the record that that was not
my character's decision. No, it was not. But it was
(33:02):
quite funny because it's not like I, as the villain
in this scenario, couldn't see either. So there was just
like a minute of flailing. Yeah, there was some genuine
confusion on both sides. Uh, it was very funny, it was.
I thought it was hilarious. I also because I was like,
(33:25):
because it wasn't just one smooth bomb, it was more
than one, and I was just like to clarify, Uh
now you cannot see either. There was a silence, yeah,
and then it was like, well, I guess not, let
(33:47):
us continue, try to hit it if you can, yeah, yeah,
and and being uh uh yeah, I'm playing I'm playing
a palattin character who who doesn't who mostly just hits
things with her halberd um. But so so I was like, well,
(34:08):
if I guess I'm just running into that cloud of
smoke now and attempting to hit something with this, and
you did it all worked out. It was just quite funny,
quite funny anyway. Anyway, Kim wrote, I'm a longtime listener
(34:34):
and happened to be an American living in the Netherlands.
I can indeed confirm that the cheese is pronounced howda
here with a guttural gh sound, which, yes, I know
I didn't do that, but I gave an attempt. Kim
continues at the beginning, Duch is a super difficult language
to speak for non natives, and I don't pretend that
(34:55):
I can say much of anything correctly, but of this,
I'm sure odocas is the best, and Kim put in
a pronunciation note pronounced odocast with a long oh like
and show. So thank you thanks for helping me learn
a bit more about my adopted home. And I can
totally recommend any of the local cheese museums if you too,
(35:17):
ever visit so many cheese samples so little ji. Yes,
I'm vibrating with excitement about this. She literally is folks.
So that sounds so great. Oh my goodness that she
is experienced. Uh goodness, yeah, oh gonna. I I'm forgetting
(35:41):
the humans name. But someone wrote in on Twitter like, oh,
I'm so excited. I just saw that you guys are
doing a gooda episode and then like thirty minutes later
like not even like like kind of immediately afterwards was like, yeah,
it's definitely pronounced like this, and I was like, heck,
well no, but thank you, thank you seriously. Pronunciation notes
(36:03):
are always always always welcome. Yes, yes, for sure, uh
Fain wrote, I just wanted to write in to request
a topic and say thank you for the podcast. There's
something incredibly satisfying about learning facts, numbers and the origin
story of foods. I've honestly gotten a little addicted to it.
I just listened to the horse Chat, a podcast and
reminded me of my time in Spain. Don't worry you
(36:25):
guys killed the pronunciations. Yes, yes, anyways, I'm in a
Spanish class right now and I was going to give
a presentation on top us, which I'm sure you know
what they are, but if you don't, they're small portions
of savory Spanish dishes served at bars, usually with alcoholic beverages.
I was hoping you had made one because I totally
would have stolen all your research on it for my project.
(36:45):
Just kidding, but now I know the reality of these
food rabbit holes and the difficulty of finding legitimate sources.
So much respect to YouTube for consolidating all that information
into a single podcast. I already made the presentation, but
my request still stands for tap Us being one of
the upcoming episodes. I want to see what else I missed. Well,
(37:06):
thank you, that's very kind. Yes, and feel free to steal.
Oh goodness, yeah yeah, um oh man, yeah. I wish
we still had a website with like a blog where
it was easy to put up links to the articles
that we've read for all of this. UM. If you
ever have a curiosity about a specific source, always feel
(37:26):
free to write in UM and tap us. Oh my goodness,
I love a tap us. Um. I know that that's
not the correct tense of that, but yeah, yes, that's uh.
One of the types of restaurants that I really miss
having an in restaurant experience of is Tapa style dining. Yes,
(37:47):
me as well, because I want to try everything. Yeah,
but I need the space to try everything. Yeah. Oh
and so right, so just get like a lot of
friends and uh so much good Spanish wine. Spanish wine
is kind of my favorite anyway. They like a lot
of the places in town have like live bands all
(38:08):
the time. It's it's so nice. It is nice. I
do miss top us maybe one day soon. Another thing
to add to the list, both our list of stuff
to do and our episode list to eventually tackle. Yes,
thank you to both of those listeners for writing in.
(38:32):
If you would like to write to us, we would
love to hear from you. Our email is Hello at
favorite pods dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver
is production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app
Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
(38:55):
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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