August 23, 2023 • 26 mins
This iteration of sparkling lemonade in a marble-in-gasket enclosed bottle became so popular that the name refers to both the flavor and the bottle type today. Anney and Lauren pop open the science and history of ramune soda (and the Codd bottle).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Ramine.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Right, which was an idea that you had based on
a love that super producer Andrew has and a suggestion
he sent once because it's his birthday belated but.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Birthday month. Yeah, happy birthday birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We went to his party. We did the thing. Yeah,
I gave him a glow stick, very ceremoniously, as I
love to do.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, glow sticks are heck and ceremonious.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It was very ceremonious, out of nowhere, one might say.
But yes, happy birthday. Huge part of the show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh yeah, happy to have you. Literally couldn't do it
without you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Thank you so much. Yes, this is something I didn't
know anything about until he requested it several months or
maybe even a year ago, who knows. But I have
seen it since I've seen it. I went to H
March and I saw it there, and then I saw
(01:30):
it on a menu recently when I was ordering sushi.
I saw that they.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Had they okay, all right, but I've never had it. Wow, Yeah,
I mean it's soda isn't really a large part of
either of our lives. But this one, this one is nice.
It holds a certain amount of nostalgia for me. And
it's just so blue, you know, not real, you don't know. Yeah,
(01:57):
it's not all that blue. Actually, it's it's clear to
mildly blue. So that yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, Well you can see our soda episode.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Or our lemonade episode, both of those intersect here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is true. But okay, that brings us to our question. Ramenee,
what is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Ramine is a style of soda pop that comes in
a bunch of different flavors and packaging formats, but the
classic is this like lemon, lime plus something flavor that
comes in glass bottles that are sealed with a marble
in gasket configuration instead of the now more common bottle cap.
(02:48):
It's a sweet like a little tart, fairly mild in flavor,
nicely fizzy. The kitch of the bottle is really part
of the fun. That that glass marble is held in
position with the gasket by the pressure of the carbonation
inside the bottle. So each bottle is packaged with a
device that you use to force the ceiling marble down
into the bottle where it's caught by a sort of
(03:10):
a dimple or pocket like in the bottleneck. The drink
is meant to be like fun and summary and like
maybe mostly for kids and or a nostalgic older audience.
It's a treat at like festivals and picnics and on vacation,
especially in the summer. It's like if if sprite or
seven up was was a generic term and it was
(03:32):
advertised more like Coca cola. Okay, it's like if a
snow cone or a soda it's sweet and simple, like
a like Sepia tone in drink format. But but don't
don't drink sepi atone.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
No. No, you can metaphorically drink it.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
In but otherwise yeah, yeah, not physically, don't don't recommend. No.
A side note, y'all. If there's weird construction noise in
the background of this one, I uh, that's kind of happening,
and it sounds like maybe there is a herd from
Jurassic Park in my backyard, but it's not. It's just
(04:17):
a construction crew.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I haven't checked yet in this minute, but.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That word territory.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh no, you're correct, Okay, all right, anyway, back to ramene. Okay, So,
so it is this interesting phenomenon because the term ramene
refers to this specific like smooth, sparkling lemonade sort of flavor,
and it's also grown to refer to the specific bottle type.
But that means that ramene can be packaged in other
(04:52):
types of vessels, and you've got flavors of ramene other
than that classic lemonade ish thing. Yeah. That plus something
or ish flavor that I keep referring to is a
little bit hard to explain or pin down. It's sort
of something like fruity or bubble gummy or maybe like
chalky in a pleasant way. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Anyway,
(05:18):
the classic flavor is often tinted light blue, or will
come in a blue tinted bottle, or will be labeled
in shades of light blue. Other flavors are often differentiated
through other colors. Several drink companies produce romine style sodas,
including Sangaria, Kimoda Drink and Hatta Kosen, and there are
also local varieties sold as torust items. And there are
(05:42):
lots and lots and lots of co branding deals with
properties like Naututo or Hello Kitty if you couldn't tell
this product is from Japan. Other than the classic, flavors
do vary pretty wildly. They're mostly a pleasant fruity things,
but they get weird too. So you know, you've got
your like melons, strawberry or in u zoo, grape, peach,
light chi, coconut, banana, pineapple, that sort of thing. But
(06:06):
there's also been like macha salted watermelon, chocolate, chili, curry, kimchi, taki, yuki,
yucky soba, French fries, fringe fries.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, okay, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Let us know if you've tried it. Oh, absolutely, Oh
my goodness, yes, okay. The bottles themselves are also known
as cod bottles, after their creator. More on that in
the history. But let's talk about the science here. Okay,
So right, these bottles are sealed not with a bottle cap,
(06:46):
but with a glass marble that fits securely into part
of a plastic cap or a rubber gasket that's fitted
inside the bottle's lip. And this only works with carbonated drinks. Okay,
So you put the marble in the bottle, then you
fill it with soda, then attach the cap or gasket
then you quickly flip the bottle upside down and the
(07:07):
pressure from the carbonation will force the marble into the
gasket and like stick it there.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, And in order to get it out, each bottle
comes package with a little like plastic plunger piece like
an open cylinder that has a flat cap across one side.
So you place the open end down on the marble
and it'll just fit around it, and then press down
with your palm on the flat end and with enough
pressure you can pop the marble down into the bottle's neck.
(07:36):
The neck is pinched or like bubbled out to keep
the marble from rolling around in the body of the bottle,
and there are little indentations in one side of that
bubble that let you carefully trap the marble and prevent
it from rolling back up into the gasket when you
tip it up to drink. Yeah, it's a little bit.
It's a little bit of a game though, Yeah, little
(07:59):
bit of coordination.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And furthermore, because manufacturers know that you probably want to
get that marble out, some Ramenee bottles are made with
the gasket formed into like a screw on plastic cap,
so you can just unscrew it when you're done and
tip the marble right out of the bottle.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Oh, I bet people have collections.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh oh they do, Oh they do. And there's also
like intact antique cod bottles are something of a rarity
people theorize because kids just smashed them to get it.
The marbles so often.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Oh yeah, yep, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
The classic flavor, though, is also sometimes available in plastic
bottles or like aluminum bottles or cans, and if you're
going to consume it, you can drink it straight out
of the bottle, preferably chilled first, or serve it like
over ice, or mix it into cocktails. Ramene is also
a popular flavor for like candies of various kinds, personal
care products like toothpaste, and winds up in other itners,
(09:00):
for example like limited edition McDonald's milkshakes, which it did
in Japan in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Mmmm okay, okay, Well what about the nutrition, Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Soda is a treat.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Soda?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Soda is solidly a treat. Treats are nice, Yep, treats
are nice. Well, we have a couple of numbers for you,
just a couple okay, So at its peak, of production.
I think in like the nineteen fifties ish there were
some two thousand, three hundred romine production facilities throughout Japan.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think as of twenty twenty one there were only
thirty three left of those five exported to other countries
at the time. However, one of those, the manufacturer had
Akosen out of Osaka, can bottle sixty five thousand units
a day. Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean they've got a fan base, a super
producer Andrew. Yes. But there is quite a history into
how they got this fan base.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh yes, and we are going to get into that
history as soon as we get back from a quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay. As we've talked
about before on the show, people have been pretty excited
about sparkling water forever, but Europeans specifically, and perhaps the
French extra specifically, were really excited about sparkling lemonade in
the sixteen hundreds. At that time and in that region,
(10:53):
lemons were like just becoming vaguely affordable, and chemists were
just figuring out how to produce and bottle carbonated water.
The first marketed soft drink was a sparkling lemonade in
Paris in the sixteen seventies. It remained a popular drink
and spread as innovations in carbonation and bottling spread. By
(11:14):
the mid eighteen hundreds, Schweps out of London had this
popular sparkling lemonade sold in these corked bottles that were
rounded in a sort of egg shape or like avocado shape.
They had no flat surface because they were meant to
lay on their side to keep the cork moist, and
they were sturdy enough that they could survive trips pretty
(11:34):
much anywhere. And now this next note might be apocryphal.
It sounds a powphl to me. But legend has it
that American Admiral Matthew Perry, who led the sort of
bullied slash negotiated creation of domestic relations between Japan and
the United States in the eighteen fifties. Legend has it
that he brought sparkling lemonade with him when he first
(11:56):
came to Japan in eighteen fifty three, and that he
really surprised the heck out of some Japanese officials when
he popped the cork on the bottle. Like the legend
goes that they were all very surprised, like, well, that's
a new type of gun, and everyone drew their swords
and things were very tense for just a second until
they realized that it was a delicious drink and they
(12:17):
all stood down.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Could have gone a lot worse, that is at BacT true.
But yes, yes, when it comes to ramine specifically, most
sources suggest that it was invented in Kobe, Japan in
the nineteenth century by Scottish pharmacist Alexander Cameron sim His
(12:43):
original idea was based on lemonade, so it goes the name.
According to some sources, he missed lemonade and he wanted
to create some and so he came up with this
product and he sold it to fellow foreigners in Japan,
and back a bit into his life, the story goes
(13:03):
that he joined the British Royal Navy in eighteen sixty six.
He was first posted in Hong Kong, but then was
relocated to Japan and Nagasaki, which was a very important
international trade port and it was one of the only
ports to trade with the West at the time.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, and carbonated lemonade had been imported through Nagasaki for
a few years before he arrived, and it seems that
at least one local had even started producing some, but
it hadn't really caught on.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right. And as trade opened after a period of strict
isolationism in Japan, companies started opening there and people were
looking for opportunities to make money. Sam was one of them.
He saw an opportunity, especially after he began working for
an import business.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Meanwhile, a businessman in Tokyo may have begun selling a
carbonated lemonade product called Ramine on May fourth of eighteen
seventy two, and for that reason, May fourth is Ramine
Day in Japan, right in let us know.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah. Meanwhile, though, yes, that bottle you mentioned, a fellow
named Hiraum Cod invented the Cod bottle in eighteen seventy two,
using a glass marble to maintain the fizz. Apparently he
was also looking to reduce the dependence on cork.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, I mean, like cork can be expensive, it's a
natural product, and it can be tricky because it's a
natural product. This was also before crown caps had been
invented or bottle caps. Also, Cod's bottles could be stored
upright on a flat surface without much risk of rolling off.
But remember the other popular bottle design at the time
(14:50):
was rounded, and you could buy like little stands to
set those bottles in. But yeah, they were designed for
storage and shipping, not for serving. Also, Cod's marbling gasket
seal was reliable and reusable. You could return, wash and
refill the bottle without replacing any of the parts until
that gasket wore out, And that was not the expensive
(15:11):
part of the operation there at the time. The plunger
piece would have been wooden with like maybe like a
little rubber piece on the part that you set right
against the marble. Yeah, and he was licensing out this
patent by eighteen seventy three. By eighteen eighty four, sim
had gone into business for himself in imports, mostly importing
(15:34):
medical stuff. And one of the things that he was
importing was this carbonated lemonade packaged in these newfangled Cod bottles.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
And when ramine was released, it was called Mabu soda
marble soda, and it was believed to be medicinal, and
particularly when it came to preventing cholera.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, sparkling water in general and lots of sodas in
particular were intended to be health drinks or downright medicinal
at the time, and cholera, which spreads through drinking water
or foods contaminated with this one kind of pathogenic bacteria.
Cholera was epidemic in Japan a few times throughout the
(16:19):
eighteen eighties and nineties, so it was a concern safely
bottled water would indeed not give you cholera. And lemon
has been shown to inhibit growth of the bacteria even
when it's pretty diluted, so a lot of something to it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes, yes, but even with that, Eventually this product caught
on for taste alone.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yes. By the eighteen nineties, the bottles were being manufactured
in Osaka.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
And up until the nineteen thirties the codnik bottle that
marble was believed to retain carbonation. Some companies in Japan
continued using this classic design technology moved past it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, Bottle caps or crown caps hit the scene right
around the turn of the twentieth century in Japan. Much
as marble cap bottles are known as ramene bottles because
of this specific drink's popularity, crown cat bottles are known
as cider bottles. And fast forward today, it seems that
cod type bottles are only produced for ramene and for
(17:27):
Indian soft drinks like like bonta. Yeah. Side note, people
like to attribute the word cod swallop meaning nonsense, to
cod bottles, wallap being slang for beer in British English.
So people say, like, oh, like maybe cod swallop was
(17:49):
meant to be like a derisive term for soft drinks.
It's codswallop, you know. I don't know, but people think
that's a folk etymology. The word cod swallop can only
be traded to the nineteen forties, and it seems to
have been retroactively applied to that plunger that I keep
talking about, because you wall up the CODs bottle.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah. Oh, I love when we get to go on
these little deep towards.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
At any rate, in nineteen fifty three, ramine accounted for
over sixty percent of carbonated beverage production in Japan. I
think I think that was the peak right there. However,
more recently, the pandemic took a serious chunk out of
manufacturing and sales of ramene in Japan. Sales of glass
(18:43):
bottle ramene drinks were down thirty five percent from twenty
nineteen to twenty twenty and plastic bottle Ramene was down
seventy six percent. People just like were not gathering and
celebrating and touristing and pubgoing the way that they usually do.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, but I'd be interested in more recent numbers.
So people have started doing that, and I feel like
there's a lot of nostalgia attached to like going back
out and oh absolutely so I'm curious if if those
(19:22):
numbers have gone up as people have been like, oh,
I really missed this Ramine.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, I couldn't find anything about it. But but but
if if y'all have any personal experience, please please please
let us.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Know, Yes, please let us know. We should we should
interrogate super producer Andrew about what his experience has been.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh it sounds very serious but okay, yeah, soda interrogation.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I like it a very serious show, only appropriate. But
in the meantime, I think that's what we I have
to say about Romine for now.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes, we do already have some listener mill for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
They were back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. That was a fun one. I
don't know if it worked, but I had a good time.
So a lot of you have written in about hallooi
(20:43):
oh yeah, yeah, yes, which I made a delicious Lui pasta.
It was the best, but keep sending in the recommendations
I'll get more, not hard, I will do it. Melissa wrote,
I just finished the Hoomy episode and found it really
interesting that it was a big deal in the UK,
(21:03):
as the first time I tried it was on a
trip to London. It was the only meatless option at
the pub and was served breaded and fried as part
of a vegetarian take on fish and chips. It was
love at first bite. I've since tried a few other recipes,
but in the end, I think I prefer it thinly
sliced and fried. My favorite recipe combines fried halluomi with
(21:26):
pearl couscous, kale, hummus, and carrots roasted in honey in satar.
Halluumi kind of reminds me of scallops in a way.
They're both versatile flavors and easy to cook, so there's
a temptation to innovate, but it's not really necessary all
you need is a quick sear and you're good to go.
Oh oh, both.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Of those things sound really beautiful. Oh my gosh, Hallumi
fish and chips, right, Oh my gosh. And then yeah,
this recipe. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I love a fish
and chips. But if my substitute I would not be
mad at the substitute being delicious cheese.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
No, no, I think that's great. Oh my gosh. And
I do think you're so right. Sometimes you're so caught
up in like, what's the fanciest thing I could do
with this?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah? How can I times?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, sometimes it's just nice to let it shine through.
And that's when I made my pasta. It was a
pretty simple pasta and it was just kind of lightly seared,
blew me in it, and it was so good. It
was so good.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh oh, I still haven't gotten any.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh, Lauren, you've got it on that. You gotta get
on that.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh heck, I do, I do. And Okay, the cravings
shall continue. Because Paul wrote, Hi, Laurena and Annie, imagine
my joy when seeing the latest episode about something I
grew up making. And I'm first and a half generation
in the States, with my dad born in Cyprus, and
my mom born here, but her parents were both from Cyprus.
My dad came to the States as a war refugee
(23:10):
in nineteen seventy four, as his home was between what's
now considered the Turkish and Greek Cypriot areas of the
island and is still uninhabitable and off limits. Making hallumi
has been passed out of my family for who knows
how long you were mentioning filtering the brine while heating
it up to poach the curd. At this point, if
a glass of the milk that was reserved at the
(23:30):
beginning of the process is poured in the heating brine,
it will make a cheese called anari. This is basically rikatta,
and there are two popular ways to eat it. If
it's fresh and still warm, a sprinkle a little sugar
on it for a tasty and I mean tasty dessert.
If you're not going to use it right away, sprinkle
some salt on it and then either refrigerate or freeze.
(23:50):
It tends to be a little drier than rikata and
is used in a variety of ways. Grate it over
pasta instead of parmesan, put it in ravioli, etc. You
can also but halloomi and ravioli by freezing and grading
it or just shredding it. We visited Cyprus when I
was seven, and I have a vague memory of surprising
my relatives with the amount of halluomi ravioli I was
able to pack into my little boy body. My parents
(24:14):
later confirmed the accuracy of this memory. Food is a
priority in the Cypriot culture, and you will be fed
even after you say no more. You usually have to
refuse three times before you're left alone. We still occasionally
make halluomi and prefer one hundred percent goat milk for
its bright flavor. Mm oh, all of that is delightful.
(24:36):
All of those things sound delicious. Thank you so much
for writing in with your personal experience, yes, history behind
your personal experience. Also in ravioli. Oh gosh, I know
that sounds just so creamy and nice, like.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
The perfect salt bomb. And I can write it like
balanced with the like acidity of maybe tomatoes or yeah
something yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And I really love I really love like a funky
goat situation with Apasta because it just really funky goat situation.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
That's where we live, that's what we love. But I
love this I as I mentioned I've been on a
big penier kick and the person checking me out was like,
you could just make it, and I was like that
sounds so intimidating, and she was like, oh, no, you
can do it. And so I love when people write
in like no, you can just make me.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, no, you can just do it. Yeah, okay, Oh yeah,
I didn't hear anything about this, like secondary cheese buttering
the pronunciation. Yeah, that sounds so good.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It does. Oh my gosh. Well, thanks for the cravings. Yeah.
Thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you'd like to write to us, you can. Our email
is hello atapod dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
(26:22):
more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber Protection of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Ramine.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Right, which was an idea that you had based on
a love that super producer Andrew has and a suggestion
he sent once because it's his birthday belated but.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Birthday month. Yeah, happy birthday birthday.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
We went to his party. We did the thing. Yeah,
I gave him a glow stick, very ceremoniously, as I
love to do.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, glow sticks are heck and ceremonious.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It was very ceremonious, out of nowhere, one might say.
But yes, happy birthday. Huge part of the show.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Oh yeah, happy to have you. Literally couldn't do it
without you.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Thank you so much. Yes, this is something I didn't
know anything about until he requested it several months or
maybe even a year ago, who knows. But I have
seen it since I've seen it. I went to H
March and I saw it there, and then I saw
(01:30):
it on a menu recently when I was ordering sushi.
I saw that they.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Had they okay, all right, but I've never had it. Wow, Yeah,
I mean it's soda isn't really a large part of
either of our lives. But this one, this one is nice.
It holds a certain amount of nostalgia for me. And
it's just so blue, you know, not real, you don't know. Yeah,
(01:57):
it's not all that blue. Actually, it's it's clear to
mildly blue. So that yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Okay, Well you can see our soda episode.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
Or our lemonade episode, both of those intersect here.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
This is true. But okay, that brings us to our question. Ramenee,
what is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Ramine is a style of soda pop that comes in
a bunch of different flavors and packaging formats, but the
classic is this like lemon, lime plus something flavor that
comes in glass bottles that are sealed with a marble
in gasket configuration instead of the now more common bottle cap.
(02:48):
It's a sweet like a little tart, fairly mild in flavor,
nicely fizzy. The kitch of the bottle is really part
of the fun. That that glass marble is held in
position with the gasket by the pressure of the carbonation
inside the bottle. So each bottle is packaged with a
device that you use to force the ceiling marble down
into the bottle where it's caught by a sort of
(03:10):
a dimple or pocket like in the bottleneck. The drink
is meant to be like fun and summary and like
maybe mostly for kids and or a nostalgic older audience.
It's a treat at like festivals and picnics and on vacation,
especially in the summer. It's like if if sprite or
seven up was was a generic term and it was
(03:32):
advertised more like Coca cola. Okay, it's like if a
snow cone or a soda it's sweet and simple, like
a like Sepia tone in drink format. But but don't
don't drink sepi atone.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
No. No, you can metaphorically drink it.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
In but otherwise yeah, yeah, not physically, don't don't recommend. No.
A side note, y'all. If there's weird construction noise in
the background of this one, I uh, that's kind of happening,
and it sounds like maybe there is a herd from
Jurassic Park in my backyard, but it's not. It's just
(04:17):
a construction crew.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
All right.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I haven't checked yet in this minute, but.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
That word territory.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Oh no, you're correct, Okay, all right, anyway, back to ramene. Okay, So,
so it is this interesting phenomenon because the term ramene
refers to this specific like smooth, sparkling lemonade sort of flavor,
and it's also grown to refer to the specific bottle type.
But that means that ramene can be packaged in other
(04:52):
types of vessels, and you've got flavors of ramene other
than that classic lemonade ish thing. Yeah. That plus something
or ish flavor that I keep referring to is a
little bit hard to explain or pin down. It's sort
of something like fruity or bubble gummy or maybe like
chalky in a pleasant way. Okay, okay, yeah, yeah. Anyway,
(05:18):
the classic flavor is often tinted light blue, or will
come in a blue tinted bottle, or will be labeled
in shades of light blue. Other flavors are often differentiated
through other colors. Several drink companies produce romine style sodas,
including Sangaria, Kimoda Drink and Hatta Kosen, and there are
also local varieties sold as torust items. And there are
(05:42):
lots and lots and lots of co branding deals with
properties like Naututo or Hello Kitty if you couldn't tell
this product is from Japan. Other than the classic, flavors
do vary pretty wildly. They're mostly a pleasant fruity things,
but they get weird too. So you know, you've got
your like melons, strawberry or in u zoo, grape, peach,
light chi, coconut, banana, pineapple, that sort of thing. But
(06:06):
there's also been like macha salted watermelon, chocolate, chili, curry, kimchi, taki, yuki,
yucky soba, French fries, fringe fries.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Right, okay, I don't even know.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Let us know if you've tried it. Oh, absolutely, Oh
my goodness, yes, okay. The bottles themselves are also known
as cod bottles, after their creator. More on that in
the history. But let's talk about the science here. Okay,
So right, these bottles are sealed not with a bottle cap,
(06:46):
but with a glass marble that fits securely into part
of a plastic cap or a rubber gasket that's fitted
inside the bottle's lip. And this only works with carbonated drinks. Okay,
So you put the marble in the bottle, then you
fill it with soda, then attach the cap or gasket
then you quickly flip the bottle upside down and the
(07:07):
pressure from the carbonation will force the marble into the
gasket and like stick it there.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Cool.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, And in order to get it out, each bottle
comes package with a little like plastic plunger piece like
an open cylinder that has a flat cap across one side.
So you place the open end down on the marble
and it'll just fit around it, and then press down
with your palm on the flat end and with enough
pressure you can pop the marble down into the bottle's neck.
(07:36):
The neck is pinched or like bubbled out to keep
the marble from rolling around in the body of the bottle,
and there are little indentations in one side of that
bubble that let you carefully trap the marble and prevent
it from rolling back up into the gasket when you
tip it up to drink. Yeah, it's a little bit.
It's a little bit of a game though, Yeah, little
(07:59):
bit of coordination.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And furthermore, because manufacturers know that you probably want to
get that marble out, some Ramenee bottles are made with
the gasket formed into like a screw on plastic cap,
so you can just unscrew it when you're done and
tip the marble right out of the bottle.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Oh, I bet people have collections.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Oh oh they do, Oh they do. And there's also
like intact antique cod bottles are something of a rarity
people theorize because kids just smashed them to get it.
The marbles so often.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Oh yeah, yep, that makes sense to me.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
The classic flavor, though, is also sometimes available in plastic
bottles or like aluminum bottles or cans, and if you're
going to consume it, you can drink it straight out
of the bottle, preferably chilled first, or serve it like
over ice, or mix it into cocktails. Ramene is also
a popular flavor for like candies of various kinds, personal
care products like toothpaste, and winds up in other itners,
(09:00):
for example like limited edition McDonald's milkshakes, which it did
in Japan in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Mmmm okay, okay, Well what about the nutrition, Oh.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Soda is a treat.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
Soda?
Speaker 2 (09:15):
Soda is solidly a treat. Treats are nice, Yep, treats
are nice. Well, we have a couple of numbers for you,
just a couple okay, So at its peak, of production.
I think in like the nineteen fifties ish there were
some two thousand, three hundred romine production facilities throughout Japan.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
I think as of twenty twenty one there were only
thirty three left of those five exported to other countries
at the time. However, one of those, the manufacturer had
Akosen out of Osaka, can bottle sixty five thousand units
a day. Yep.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
Yeah, I mean they've got a fan base, a super
producer Andrew. Yes. But there is quite a history into
how they got this fan base.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Oh yes, and we are going to get into that
history as soon as we get back from a quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:29):
And we're back.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay. As we've talked
about before on the show, people have been pretty excited
about sparkling water forever, but Europeans specifically, and perhaps the
French extra specifically, were really excited about sparkling lemonade in
the sixteen hundreds. At that time and in that region,
(10:53):
lemons were like just becoming vaguely affordable, and chemists were
just figuring out how to produce and bottle carbonated water.
The first marketed soft drink was a sparkling lemonade in
Paris in the sixteen seventies. It remained a popular drink
and spread as innovations in carbonation and bottling spread. By
(11:14):
the mid eighteen hundreds, Schweps out of London had this
popular sparkling lemonade sold in these corked bottles that were
rounded in a sort of egg shape or like avocado shape.
They had no flat surface because they were meant to
lay on their side to keep the cork moist, and
they were sturdy enough that they could survive trips pretty
(11:34):
much anywhere. And now this next note might be apocryphal.
It sounds a powphl to me. But legend has it
that American Admiral Matthew Perry, who led the sort of
bullied slash negotiated creation of domestic relations between Japan and
the United States in the eighteen fifties. Legend has it
that he brought sparkling lemonade with him when he first
(11:56):
came to Japan in eighteen fifty three, and that he
really surprised the heck out of some Japanese officials when
he popped the cork on the bottle. Like the legend
goes that they were all very surprised, like, well, that's
a new type of gun, and everyone drew their swords
and things were very tense for just a second until
they realized that it was a delicious drink and they
(12:17):
all stood down.
Speaker 1 (12:19):
Could have gone a lot worse, that is at BacT true.
But yes, yes, when it comes to ramine specifically, most
sources suggest that it was invented in Kobe, Japan in
the nineteenth century by Scottish pharmacist Alexander Cameron sim His
(12:43):
original idea was based on lemonade, so it goes the name.
According to some sources, he missed lemonade and he wanted
to create some and so he came up with this
product and he sold it to fellow foreigners in Japan,
and back a bit into his life, the story goes
(13:03):
that he joined the British Royal Navy in eighteen sixty six.
He was first posted in Hong Kong, but then was
relocated to Japan and Nagasaki, which was a very important
international trade port and it was one of the only
ports to trade with the West at the time.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, and carbonated lemonade had been imported through Nagasaki for
a few years before he arrived, and it seems that
at least one local had even started producing some, but
it hadn't really caught on.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
Right. And as trade opened after a period of strict
isolationism in Japan, companies started opening there and people were
looking for opportunities to make money. Sam was one of them.
He saw an opportunity, especially after he began working for
an import business.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Meanwhile, a businessman in Tokyo may have begun selling a
carbonated lemonade product called Ramine on May fourth of eighteen
seventy two, and for that reason, May fourth is Ramine
Day in Japan, right in let us know.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yeah. Meanwhile, though, yes, that bottle you mentioned, a fellow
named Hiraum Cod invented the Cod bottle in eighteen seventy two,
using a glass marble to maintain the fizz. Apparently he
was also looking to reduce the dependence on cork.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, I mean, like cork can be expensive, it's a
natural product, and it can be tricky because it's a
natural product. This was also before crown caps had been
invented or bottle caps. Also, Cod's bottles could be stored
upright on a flat surface without much risk of rolling off.
But remember the other popular bottle design at the time
(14:50):
was rounded, and you could buy like little stands to
set those bottles in. But yeah, they were designed for
storage and shipping, not for serving. Also, Cod's marbling gasket
seal was reliable and reusable. You could return, wash and
refill the bottle without replacing any of the parts until
that gasket wore out, And that was not the expensive
(15:11):
part of the operation there at the time. The plunger
piece would have been wooden with like maybe like a
little rubber piece on the part that you set right
against the marble. Yeah, and he was licensing out this
patent by eighteen seventy three. By eighteen eighty four, sim
had gone into business for himself in imports, mostly importing
(15:34):
medical stuff. And one of the things that he was
importing was this carbonated lemonade packaged in these newfangled Cod bottles.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
And when ramine was released, it was called Mabu soda
marble soda, and it was believed to be medicinal, and
particularly when it came to preventing cholera.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, sparkling water in general and lots of sodas in
particular were intended to be health drinks or downright medicinal
at the time, and cholera, which spreads through drinking water
or foods contaminated with this one kind of pathogenic bacteria.
Cholera was epidemic in Japan a few times throughout the
(16:19):
eighteen eighties and nineties, so it was a concern safely
bottled water would indeed not give you cholera. And lemon
has been shown to inhibit growth of the bacteria even
when it's pretty diluted, so a lot of something to it.
Speaker 1 (16:34):
Yes, yes, but even with that, Eventually this product caught
on for taste alone.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yes. By the eighteen nineties, the bottles were being manufactured
in Osaka.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
And up until the nineteen thirties the codnik bottle that
marble was believed to retain carbonation. Some companies in Japan
continued using this classic design technology moved past it.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Yeah, Bottle caps or crown caps hit the scene right
around the turn of the twentieth century in Japan. Much
as marble cap bottles are known as ramene bottles because
of this specific drink's popularity, crown cat bottles are known
as cider bottles. And fast forward today, it seems that
cod type bottles are only produced for ramene and for
(17:27):
Indian soft drinks like like bonta. Yeah. Side note, people
like to attribute the word cod swallop meaning nonsense, to
cod bottles, wallap being slang for beer in British English.
So people say, like, oh, like maybe cod swallop was
(17:49):
meant to be like a derisive term for soft drinks.
It's codswallop, you know. I don't know, but people think
that's a folk etymology. The word cod swallop can only
be traded to the nineteen forties, and it seems to
have been retroactively applied to that plunger that I keep
talking about, because you wall up the CODs bottle.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
Yeah. Oh, I love when we get to go on
these little deep towards.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
At any rate, in nineteen fifty three, ramine accounted for
over sixty percent of carbonated beverage production in Japan. I
think I think that was the peak right there. However,
more recently, the pandemic took a serious chunk out of
manufacturing and sales of ramene in Japan. Sales of glass
(18:43):
bottle ramene drinks were down thirty five percent from twenty
nineteen to twenty twenty and plastic bottle Ramene was down
seventy six percent. People just like were not gathering and
celebrating and touristing and pubgoing the way that they usually do.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Yeah, yeah, but I'd be interested in more recent numbers.
So people have started doing that, and I feel like
there's a lot of nostalgia attached to like going back
out and oh absolutely so I'm curious if if those
(19:22):
numbers have gone up as people have been like, oh,
I really missed this Ramine.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah, I couldn't find anything about it. But but but
if if y'all have any personal experience, please please please
let us.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Know, Yes, please let us know. We should we should
interrogate super producer Andrew about what his experience has been.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Oh it sounds very serious but okay, yeah, soda interrogation.
Speaker 1 (19:47):
I like it a very serious show, only appropriate. But
in the meantime, I think that's what we I have
to say about Romine for now.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Yes, we do already have some listener mill for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
They were back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. That was a fun one. I
don't know if it worked, but I had a good time.
So a lot of you have written in about hallooi
(20:43):
oh yeah, yeah, yes, which I made a delicious Lui pasta.
It was the best, but keep sending in the recommendations
I'll get more, not hard, I will do it. Melissa wrote,
I just finished the Hoomy episode and found it really
interesting that it was a big deal in the UK,
(21:03):
as the first time I tried it was on a
trip to London. It was the only meatless option at
the pub and was served breaded and fried as part
of a vegetarian take on fish and chips. It was
love at first bite. I've since tried a few other recipes,
but in the end, I think I prefer it thinly
sliced and fried. My favorite recipe combines fried halluomi with
(21:26):
pearl couscous, kale, hummus, and carrots roasted in honey in satar.
Halluumi kind of reminds me of scallops in a way.
They're both versatile flavors and easy to cook, so there's
a temptation to innovate, but it's not really necessary all
you need is a quick sear and you're good to go.
Oh oh, both.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Of those things sound really beautiful. Oh my gosh, Hallumi
fish and chips, right, Oh my gosh. And then yeah,
this recipe. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I love a fish
and chips. But if my substitute I would not be
mad at the substitute being delicious cheese.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
No, no, I think that's great. Oh my gosh. And
I do think you're so right. Sometimes you're so caught
up in like, what's the fanciest thing I could do
with this?
Speaker 2 (22:19):
Yeah? How can I times?
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yeah, sometimes it's just nice to let it shine through.
And that's when I made my pasta. It was a
pretty simple pasta and it was just kind of lightly seared,
blew me in it, and it was so good. It
was so good.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Oh oh, I still haven't gotten any.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Oh, Lauren, you've got it on that. You gotta get
on that.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Oh heck, I do, I do. And Okay, the cravings
shall continue. Because Paul wrote, Hi, Laurena and Annie, imagine
my joy when seeing the latest episode about something I
grew up making. And I'm first and a half generation
in the States, with my dad born in Cyprus, and
my mom born here, but her parents were both from Cyprus.
My dad came to the States as a war refugee
(23:10):
in nineteen seventy four, as his home was between what's
now considered the Turkish and Greek Cypriot areas of the
island and is still uninhabitable and off limits. Making hallumi
has been passed out of my family for who knows
how long you were mentioning filtering the brine while heating
it up to poach the curd. At this point, if
a glass of the milk that was reserved at the
(23:30):
beginning of the process is poured in the heating brine,
it will make a cheese called anari. This is basically rikatta,
and there are two popular ways to eat it. If
it's fresh and still warm, a sprinkle a little sugar
on it for a tasty and I mean tasty dessert.
If you're not going to use it right away, sprinkle
some salt on it and then either refrigerate or freeze.
(23:50):
It tends to be a little drier than rikata and
is used in a variety of ways. Grate it over
pasta instead of parmesan, put it in ravioli, etc. You
can also but halloomi and ravioli by freezing and grading
it or just shredding it. We visited Cyprus when I
was seven, and I have a vague memory of surprising
my relatives with the amount of halluomi ravioli I was
able to pack into my little boy body. My parents
(24:14):
later confirmed the accuracy of this memory. Food is a
priority in the Cypriot culture, and you will be fed
even after you say no more. You usually have to
refuse three times before you're left alone. We still occasionally
make halluomi and prefer one hundred percent goat milk for
its bright flavor. Mm oh, all of that is delightful.
(24:36):
All of those things sound delicious. Thank you so much
for writing in with your personal experience, yes, history behind
your personal experience. Also in ravioli. Oh gosh, I know
that sounds just so creamy and nice, like.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
The perfect salt bomb. And I can write it like
balanced with the like acidity of maybe tomatoes or yeah
something yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
And I really love I really love like a funky
goat situation with Apasta because it just really funky goat situation.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
That's where we live, that's what we love. But I
love this I as I mentioned I've been on a
big penier kick and the person checking me out was like,
you could just make it, and I was like that
sounds so intimidating, and she was like, oh, no, you
can do it. And so I love when people write
in like no, you can just make me.
Speaker 2 (25:34):
Yeah, no, you can just do it. Yeah, okay, Oh yeah,
I didn't hear anything about this, like secondary cheese buttering
the pronunciation. Yeah, that sounds so good.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
It does. Oh my gosh. Well, thanks for the cravings. Yeah.
Thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you'd like to write to us, you can. Our email
is hello atapod dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
(26:22):
more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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