January 24, 2020 • 30 mins
This classic 20th-century American dish exists thanks to a 19th-century fad diet and Germany’s aggression during the World Wars. Yep. Anney and Lauren explore the strange history of Salisbury steak (and its cousin, the Hamburg steak).
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. I'm Annieres and I'm Lauren Volcabam, and
today we're talking about Salisbury steak. Indeed, and this one
has been on my personal shortlist since we first started
this show. Yes, because in the early days of food Stuff,
I googled weird is food stories and Salsbory's steak came
(00:30):
up on the list. Wow, which having done the research
now I'm not surprised by this one is great. Yeah,
there's like Nazis and uh and weird like health food
movement stuff, oh like a being experiments. Yeah, it's It's
(00:51):
honestly one of my favorites, one of my favorite topics,
like in recent memory. It is excellent and weirdly enough,
kind of finly because yeah, it was sort of a
fat diet for a while. It was part of a
fat diet, believe it or not, believe it. Believe it.
When I was thinking about this, I at first I thought,
(01:12):
I don't think I've ever had Salsbury steak outside of
a frozen food dining hall situation. But then I started
thinking about the difference between country fried steak um and
Salsbury steak, and I think in my family, even though
we called it country fried steak, it was actually Salsbury
steak because it wasn't breaded. Yeah, and it had brown gravy,
(01:33):
and I guess chicken fried steak usually has white gravy.
This is from a very quick preparsory Google search, and
white gravy is how my grandmother served it chicken fried steak.
But that was also it wasn't like a burger anyway,
So maybe I've had more different episode. I don't think
I've ever had Salsbury steak. I don't think I've had
(01:56):
a lot of meat loaf, yes, which is adjacent. Yeah,
my dad loved what I think was now Salisbury steak.
That was like one of his favorite things. Yes, and
we wanted to say before we get started. Hamburger Future
episode definitely happening. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we had to.
(02:17):
It's adjacent. There's a Venn diagram. Yes, we're going to
mention some Hamburger facts because they are closely related, but
that it's a whole, it's deserving of its own episode.
Oh absolutely, yes. But today we are talking about something else,
which brings us to our question. Salves very steak, what
(02:38):
is it well. Salisbury steak is a dish consisting of
ground meat, usually beef sometimes beef and pork, formed into
ovular patties and pan fried a k a sauteid, then
finished or perhaps served with gravy, usually a brown gravy
or or sometimes what I've seen referred to as a
as a brown sauce, which if you're not from the
(02:59):
American mid ust you might be confused about it. Just
it doesn't have flour, I think is the main differ anyway. Um, Yes,
the patties are often plumped up and made more cohesive
with bread crumbs and or a raw egg, and seasoned
with stuff like a salt and pepper of course, but
then worce to shear, sauce, ketchup, mustard, powder and onion.
The patties are cooked completely through. Sometimes onions are also
(03:21):
cooked down in the gravy, and mushrooms are sometimes added
to that as well. And yeah, the gravy itself is
made from broth again usually beef sometimes chicken more worse
to shear and catch up, and flour or cornstarch as
a thickener. The result is salty and savory and tender
soft and like just a whole pile of comforting. Um.
It's often served with other comfort foods that pair well
(03:43):
with gravy, like mashed potatoes or like soft dinner rolls,
and alongside steamed or boiled vegetables like green peas, carrots,
or green beans. And yeah, for all y'all who ain't
from around here, that means that this is a like
really classic mid century Midwestern American sort of dish. Yeah,
which is very funny because I I thought it was English,
(04:06):
And despite being a popular dish in England, it is
not named after Salisbury, England. It's an American originalsh ish. Yes,
and these days it also kind of sometimes it's called
hamburger steak yeah um. And it can be made as
simply or as fancily as you want, with a different
meats or blends of ground meats, a pork, turkey, venison,
(04:29):
feel lean or fatty cuts. Other ingredients in the patties
from like bell peppers or celery, to halapenos to buttercracker crumbs,
too prepared mustard, to spinach, to garlic or fresh herbs.
You can use dried soup mix or bullion or canned
condensed soup or canned gravy. You can make a beshamel,
you can add sherry. You can bake the ingredients plus
(04:51):
potatoes up in like a casserole. Part of the appeal
is that it's adaptable to what you have on hand,
and it's honestly pretty difficult to like bess up beyond
ed ability. Yeah, I can see that. It was very wonderful.
And I'm going to insert a solid piece of life
advice right here. Okay, do not do not look up
(05:15):
the Urban Dictionary definition of Saulsberry steak. I am begging you,
don't do it. Oh okay, this is not some kind
of trick. It is not reverse psychology. Okay, just just don't.
Just for for your own sanity, don't do it. Your
life will be better all for it. Okay, all right, well,
duly noted. That's you know, if I could, if I
(05:35):
could go back in time and tell myself not to
look up certain things, I would take my own advice. Well,
I am offering advice now, and I beg you it.
Uh well, yes, that brings us to nutrition. God, sure,
let's talk about nutrition. Uh yeah, it's it's I mean,
(05:57):
it's pan fried beef, you know, so like it's high
in protein. It's got a good smattering of minerals depending
on how you make it, of course. Um, the the
dish tends to have a lot of fat and salt,
not a lot of fiber or vitamins. Like it'll fill
you up, but is best paired with vegetables and some
grains to help keep you going. Yeah. Yeah, and we
do have some numbers. Well, yeah, Like it's difficult to
(06:20):
gauge the popularity of this dish because it's such a
homey kind of thing, but yeah, a couple numbers for you. Um.
The most made and reviewed recipe for Salsbury steak on
all recipes dot com UM that I could find anyway,
has been made by at least seven thousand users and
reviewed three thousand times, and it is a It's rated
a four and a half star recipe by those users.
(06:42):
Nice so good, and it shows up all over the
place in a prepared food companies UH product lineups, UM Banquet,
Boston Market, Didn'teemore, Hormel, Healthy Choice, Hungry, man Lin Cuisine,
Marie Calendars, Michelina's Staffers. It comes canned and frozen dinners
and shelf stable microwave meals. Um, there's a banquet brand
(07:04):
frozen Salisbury steak pot pie. I've had. That's it good?
I mean yeah, it's salty in it. It's like a
nice pie crust, so pretty good. Uh. Have restaurants and
other food service outlets can buy like frozen pans of
like fifty Salisbury steaks at one go. WHOA. If that's
(07:25):
the thing you're interested in, it's out there there you go.
It exists. And this is one of those dishes named
after one specific and very fascinating person, Dr James Henry Salisbury.
And we'll get into that, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(07:51):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and again Hamburger meatloaf
different episodes, but very briefly. Cattle were domesticated around ten
thousand years ago in Mesopotamia. I'm pretty sure that's come
up in a another episode in there was an influx
of German immigrants into the United States after several revolutions
(08:12):
reverberated across the thirty nine states of the German Confederation.
Several of these German immigrants opened beer gardens, where they
offered meats prepared in the German style. In particular the
style of Hamburg, a German city known for its high
quality beef. This beef was prepared as chopped steak, and
this was called Hamburg style, although in the US the
(08:34):
quality of the beef was not that high, not equitable
to what you'd get in Hamburg. Nevertheless, the name sounded
classier than ground beef, so they went with it. The
dish went mainstream in America after its appearance at the
eighteen seventy six World's Fair in Philadelphia, becoming a cheap
menu item across the country. And yes, yes, Hamburg Hamburger.
(08:56):
Different episode. Also, there's a book called Hamburger History. Yes,
I want to read it, but no, not now, not
not today, at this time. It wasn't in the mid
of the middle note in this current day time. Yes,
it wasn't uncommon for chopped raw beef to be prescribed
for digestive problems. Inter Dr Salisbury. Okay, this guy, this
(09:22):
whole dude, Oh my gosh. He was born in Scott,
New York in eighty three. After getting degrees in chemistry
and natural science, he headed to medical school. And he
was a big believer that you are what you eat,
and that food majorly impacts your health. And not only
that certain foods were preventative and curative, especially of digestive ailments.
(09:45):
One of the best foods for your health and digestive
system in his mind missed beef patties sure cooked unlike
previous recommendations. Not only that, he warned against overconsumption of
fruits and vegetables quote at the expense of more substantial
elements a L I M E N s um and led.
(10:06):
This led to children having what he called summer complaints. So, okay,
if you've never heard the term element as I had not,
it's um. It's just a now archaic and slightly hoity toity,
or at least like very technical way of saying nourishment
or sustenance. It dates from the fourteen hundreds from Latin,
and was common in medical texts through the early eighteen hundreds.
(10:29):
So he was honestly being like a little pretentious. No,
not this guy. That doesn't sound right. Oh, and if
you've never heard the term summer complaints as I had not, UM,
it means a gas for intestinal infection UM, particularly from
like bacterial food poisoning, and particularly resulting in diarrhea like
dysentery um, the kind of like a fun term for
(10:51):
dysentery um and most dangerous in children and infants, and
so yeah, a summer complaints was a cause of much
concern during the hot summer months in places with poor sanitation.
UM from the early eighteen hundreds through like the nineties
or fifties. UM the term passed out of usage in
the following decades. But okay, how did Dr Salsbury arrive
(11:16):
at the conclusion that chopped beef was a health food?
Well fascinating science of a kind of a kind. According
to the explanation contained in the preface of his book
that he wrote quote in eighteen fifty four, the idea
came to me in one of my solitary hours to
(11:36):
try the effect of living exclusively upon one food at
a time. This experiment I began upon myself alone. At first,
I opened this line of experiments with baked beans. I
had not lived upon this food over three days before
light began to break. I became very flatulent and constipated,
head dizzy, ears, ringing, limbs, prickly, and was wholly unfitted
(11:59):
for mental work. The microscopic examination of passages showed that
the bean food did not digest. Well, that guy has
some interesting hobbies living off of baked beans. Yeah, I mean,
I can see why those symptoms would be occurring. I
can as well. But his curiosity was not satiated, and
(12:23):
he somehow convinced six other people to come live with
him while subsisting often all baked bean diet in eighteen
fifty eight. And I could not stop laughing at this
and thinking about the lighthouse beans don't billion beans? Gosh,
you got a respect for the determination. Sure. He went
(12:44):
on to convince for other people to do something similar
with oatmeal porridge for thirty whole days. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
He conducted several more of these tests, eventually arriving at
the conclusion at the most easily digestible food was lean
mith beef, removed of connective tissue and fully cooked. He
believed this so strongly he decided to test out his
(13:04):
theories during the Civil War, giving Union soldiers beset with
chronic diarrhea chopped beef. And that's pretty much it. Yeah,
like three times a day, chopped beef. No vegetables, definitely,
no vegetables, yes, terrible. Yes. And also he was a
Civil War doctor by the way, it wasn't like he
was just some dude. Oh hey, can I conduct an
experiment on your six soldiers. Here's a Civil war doctor. Yes, yes, yes,
(13:27):
that that Yes he was. That is a true and
honest fact. He postulated the problem lined in the Emilsius
Army Biscuit diet. That's a quote. Here's what he specifically advised.
The first step is to wash out the sour stomach
and bowels and to change the food. The food selected
should be such as is least liable to ferment with
alcohol and acid yeast. This is muscle pulp of beef,
(13:50):
prepared as heretofore described, when it affords the maximum of
nourishment with the minimum of effort to the digestive organs.
Nothing else, nothing else but his food, except an occasional
change to broiled mutton just for just for flavor, Yeah,
every now and then. And yes, before the dish took
(14:11):
on his name, Salisbury called it muscle pulp of beef. Yeah.
And like note here that he wasn't actually talking about
ground beef. Um. The meat grinders that we know and
love today weren't invented until the eighteen nineties. Um, and
he wasn't talking about minced beef, although ground and minced
are parallel terms from British to American English. But he
(14:32):
wasn't talking about mincing up beef with a knife. UM.
His muscle pulp of beef called for the cook to
chop the surface of the meat repeatedly like pushing with
your kind of dull knife, I guess, like the fibrous
tissue of the meat down into the cutting board, and
then occasionally at intervals scraping the pulp off of the top.
(14:55):
Um to to use that to make your patties. UM.
At the time, a co and device for doing this
kind of work was not a knife as we would
use today, UM, but like a semicircle of metal with
a blade along the round edge and a handle on
the flat edge, UM, for use on a cutting board
or in a cutting bowl a cutting bowl. M. Yeah.
After thirty years of research in Salisbury published a book
(15:18):
all about this, all about his findings, called The Relation
of Alimentation and Disease. He wrote, healthy alimentation are feeding
upon such foods as a system can well digest and assimilate,
is always promotive of good health. Unhealthy alimentation always acts
as a cause of disease. And this is a whole book.
You can read it if you want to. Um. Interesting
(15:42):
to me, utmost is that his recipe for this muscle
pulp of lean beef made into cakes and broiled in
this book calls for worst to shear sauce if desired
UM other optional seasonings including mustard, horseradish, and lemon juice,
and he recommends a butter, salt and pepper in any case. Um.
Just I don't know. It's so weird and wonderful to
me that, like worster shear sauce was one of the
(16:03):
things that has remained stable in this recipe totally despite this, dude. Interesting.
Oh there was another and I don't remember the name
of it off the top of my head, there was
another um sauce that he said was acceptable to add in.
But but apparently it was like some kind of rival
to wister shear sauce, and like it did not make history.
(16:24):
So yeah, that's a rabbit hole for a different day though. Um. Yeah.
Also in this book, Salsbury recommended a new fangled device
for preparing his steaks UM, a chopper driven by a
hand crank. UM and the name of this thing was
American Chopper, which makes it real hilarious to Google search
(16:45):
these days. Yeah, I got a lot of memes and
not a whole lot of what I was looking for.
Helicopter images, There's or or the or the motorcycle TV
show American Shopper. Yeah, yeah, a lot of that anyway.
Also in this book, Salisbury claims that the stomach is
a meat digesting organ. That is a quote, um, which
(17:08):
he says explains why you can avoid disease for a
lot longer eating meat than eating even quote the best
vegetable products. Wow, he had it out for vegetables, he did. Um.
He also claimed that uh and I quote consumption strictly speaking,
is a disease caused by abnormal or unhealthy feeding or
feeding too excessively on the various preparations of grains, vegetables, sweets,
(17:32):
and fruits and the products developed from them by fermentation.
And you know, consumption is tuberculosis, which is an infectious
bacterial lung disease. Um. But to be fair, that had
only been sessed out like six years earlier, in two
and research into the disease was still ongoing. But I
just that one cracked me up. Anyway, people flipped out
(17:57):
about this book in a positive way. Yes, oh, they
of it. Englishwoman Elma Stewart was one of the most
the biggest fans. She raved about it and highly recommended it.
She got so many responses about the wonders of this
diet after she recommended it in her book What Must
I Do to Get Well and How Do I Keep
So she published some of these responses that she received,
(18:17):
and they were rave reviews. The diet was extremely popular
for the next twenty years. Oh yeah, um one Dr
W M. Hepburn wrote glowingly about it the book and
in the Philadelphia Medical and Surgical Journal and recommended purposefully
dulling the blades on your choppers so that you so
that you really mashed the meat. U Um. The dish
(18:41):
might not have gotten its name all the way until though.
Um that's the first known record imprint, according to Miriam Webster,
and yeah, history has been less kind. These initial reviewers
were um. The Google books scanned version of the second
edition bears a handry note on the title page that reads,
(19:02):
not worth the price of the paper periand Burn day
oh gosh um and yes. Meanwhile, developing again around the
same time, in the United States was this other chopped
beef patty dish, the hamburg steak. Yes. One nineteen o
(19:25):
four recipe for Hamburger steak called for a beef gravy
made of fat, flower water and catchup. Yeah yeah, adding
that ketchup into their um. And this recipe was from
the U. S. Navy's cookbook, indicating that the dish was
considered a decent combination of like healthful, approachable um, easy
to make, and inexpensive um. And it would persist in
(19:45):
Navy cookbooks largely unchanged throughout the years. Um. So yeah,
it wouldn't be called Salisbury steak until two edition. Um. Meanwhile,
also in nineteen o four, visitors to the St. Louis
World's Fair could try a trendy new dish, hamburg steak sandwiches.
And by this time, Yeah, the Auger driven meat grinder
(20:07):
had made it much easier to prepare meat for patties
like this. Salisbury steak fell to the wayside, eclipsed by
Hamburg steak and these fancy new hamburgers. Right. Salisbury stake
did experience a resurgence during World War One, when Americans
avoided German sounding foods. Yes and so here's where Nazis
come in. Yes, you never know from some things I read.
(20:31):
Frankfurter also fell prey to this, going from liberty sausage first,
and then hot dog and other foods as well. Oh yeah.
A nineteen eighteen petition to the USS Federal Food Administration
to rename sauer Kraut liberty cabbage, for example. Yeah, this
petition was largely backed by grocers and distributors who saw
(20:51):
a sharp decrease in sauer Kraut sales during the war.
They wanted to change the name to something quote, Americans
could be proud of. Yes, and even measles got in
the mix. Newspapers at the time began referring to what
had previously been called German measles as liberty measles. Oh
that's not huh. Indeed, I think he could have just
(21:14):
given that to the Germans if they didn't like them. Yeah,
come on, docksons became liberty pups. Okay, that one, I'm
totally on. We could try to bring that back. Cities
with German sounding names renamed themselves. It was a whole
It was a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Post World War One,
White Castle, Yes, that one. The self proclaimed first fast
(21:38):
food restaurant chain in the United States, more researchers and needed,
but that's what their website says. With a burger as
their main menu item, changed the name of their burger
to Saulsberry Steak. Still, the burgers remained unpopular, so White
Castle switched it up with many burgers they called sliders
with a y. Huh yeah. During the sing of World
(22:00):
War Two, um hamburg steak or Salisbury steak as it
was becoming to be known, um was seen as a
as a recipe that could help stretch meat with the
addition of stuff like a cream of wheat, oats, a
ground soy. And I am not the only one who
has this association with frozen food and Salisbury stage certainly not.
It was a very popular TV dinner option in the
(22:21):
second wave of frozen meals in the nineteen sixties. Yeah again, like,
it's difficult to make it inedible even when freezing and
reheating are involved because of the of the of the
relative um feel forgive me like flatness of flavor. Uh,
It's it's it's just I won't forgive that. It's it's
a new mommy bomb and that's fine. That's great. It's
delicious um. And and also that the moisture of the
(22:42):
gravy makes it a lot easier to not totally mess
up the meat, right yeah um. According to America's Test Kitchen,
Swanson introduced the probably first frozen Salsbury steak as part
of a special three course TV dinner in nineteen sixty
special three course Tevy dinner. Yeah, and it's remained a
popular frozen meal. Uh and and a popular recipe in
(23:07):
the armed forces. Fascinating stuff it is. Yeah. So the
reason we don't call it hamburg stick is because there
was this weirdo who published a weirdo book about it
for Treatment of Dysenterry. Yes, and then Nazis and then Nazis.
(23:28):
It's the t LDR version coverage everything you need. I
this is just it's delightful. Yeah. I'm glad we finally
I can finally mark it off the list. Me too.
I didn't know that this was such a burning question
for you. I'm sorry that we didn't do it sooner.
I think every time I suggested it you were kind
(23:49):
of like, really, what why? But now now I understand
now you know, so do you listeners? But we do
have a little bit more for you. But first we've
got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(24:15):
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with I. I haven't worked on my impressions.
I'm sorry, but I I did used to believe I
had a really good Sean Connery impression. I think I
was wrong. Oh okay, but I was thinking of the
(24:35):
lighthouse and it went that weird direction. Sure you do
know that that wasn't Sean Connery. Col I was aware
of that fact, but they had a similar vibe. There
was certainly a thing that was happening. That's what the
movie called the movie were you There certainly was a
(25:01):
thing that was happening. That's actually about how I feel
about that. So I don't see it have fun. I
quite enjoyed it. Oh, it's definitely a trip. It's a
trip anyway, anyway, Zach wrote a longtime Listener, first time
writer here, I couldn't help but share about my new
love of rum agricole thanks to y'all. I grew up
(25:22):
in a family with a rich history of moonshining, brandy
and whiskey and distill living tradition of homemade wine making,
and my uncle is the one in the family who
has the most refined taste for his spirits. I think
any Southern gentleman hitting way might right. He swears by
Mount Gay Rum. You might imagine that at my own
coming of age, his taste of liquor would be the
(25:43):
one that I would choose to emulate. For years now,
I've always jumped to using the same rum for any
occasion that might call from mixed drinks. When I heard
the episode on Rum Agricole, I made a mental note
to try this cousin to rum as soon as I
got the chance. I'm a recent post grad transplant to
your decatur. I welcome today. Some new friends of mine
invited me to s O S Tiki Bar last night.
(26:04):
When I got there, felt the tiki vibes and saw
the cocktails on the menu, I said, if ever there
was a place in a t l that have it,
it's here. I asked the bartender if they had any.
Andy grinned and made me a tea punch. I have
a new love, and we'll be searching for a bottle soon.
I can't wait to learn how to make tea punch
and share some with my dad and uncle to see
what they think about it. Oh yeah, that's so exciting.
(26:26):
It is so exciting. I've also been looking for it
all around Atlanta. Um. I can tell you that they've
got like a few of them at Wrecking Bar in
Little Five. Um. Oh gosh, there's at least two other
places I found, But now I'm totally forgetting them anyway. Yes,
there are options, perhaps not as many as we would like,
there are, there are, Memory wrote, I just finished listening
(26:50):
to your episode on cinnamon rolls and thought i'd share
a few things. First, mashed potatoes in the dough. Absolutely.
My great aunt Betty's cinnamon roll recipe is a family
classic and has mashed potatoes in the dough. Being from Idaho,
that didn't surprise me. We make all kinds of things
with mashed potatoes as an ingredient, potato donuts, potato bread,
cinnamon rolls are what come to mind right away. Second,
(27:10):
Chilian cinnamon rolls were a school lunch classic for all
of my years in public school. We were always so
excited as the smell of baking cinnamon rolls wafted down
the school hallways. One of my friends moms would come
and eat lunch at school. She would sign up to
be the classroom helper and then stay and buy school
lunch only on the days we had cinnamon rolls. My
friends said, she would wait until the months a lunch
(27:31):
menu was published and then call a teacher to sign
up to come help on that day. My aunt always
made cinnamon rolls in chili around Halloween. It was their
family start a fall tradition. And lastly, the sticky buns
or money bread reminded me of the Christmas morning breakfast
of my growing up. My husband and kids don't like
sweets for breakfast, so I have not continued the tradition
(27:52):
in my family when we have Christmas without the grandparents.
My mom always called them butter Scotch rolls, and they're
super easy and so delicious. And if you've got frozen
rolls in your freezer section of your grocery store, you
don't need to be afraid of making something with east bread. Lauren, huh. Also,
I thought i'd mentioned a few interesting food related things.
(28:14):
A town nearby a Blackfoot, Idaho, has a small museum
called the Potato Museum. It has interesting information on the
history of the potato and farming harvest and consumption of them,
as well as cafe to be able to enjoy a
baked spud. A still operating. Last I heard drive in
movie theater called the Spud Drive In, located between the
small towns of Drigs and Victor, Idaho, has an old
(28:35):
potato truck with a massive potato out front, as well
as outside the ticket booth several life sized potatoes Mr.
Potato head style. They're almost always outside for photo opportunities.
Also not to be missed in the Mountain West is
the wonderfully uniquely flavored huckleberry. I've also heard it called
a wild mountain blueberry, though I'm not sure if they're
(28:55):
really the same thing. They're ripe in the fall, and
as far as I know, are only found in the wild,
so require foraging to pick them. Locals have huckleberry patch
spots in the mountains, areas of wilderness open to hiking
and often range cattle, whose precise locations are fiercely guarded secrets.
Oh man, so you have to know someone. I love it.
(29:16):
I actually embarrassingly thought huckleberries were not real. Oh I
did not know it was a real thing. Oh yeah,
I from Yeah, No, like snowsberries, fictional, huckleberries real. I
just got my berries berry wires crossed. It's understandable. I
love this. I would love to go and see the
(29:38):
Potato Museum and right, so good. That is so good.
Maybe one day maybe well Field trips, yes, so many.
But in the meantime, Thanks to both of those listeners
for writing. We would love to hear from all of
you listeners. If you would like to email as you can.
Our email is hello at saber pod dot com. We're
also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
(30:00):
and Instagram at saver pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. For more podcasts to my heart Radio,
you can visit to the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. I'm Annieres and I'm Lauren Volcabam, and
today we're talking about Salisbury steak. Indeed, and this one
has been on my personal shortlist since we first started
this show. Yes, because in the early days of food Stuff,
I googled weird is food stories and Salsbory's steak came
(00:30):
up on the list. Wow, which having done the research
now I'm not surprised by this one is great. Yeah,
there's like Nazis and uh and weird like health food
movement stuff, oh like a being experiments. Yeah, it's It's
(00:51):
honestly one of my favorites, one of my favorite topics,
like in recent memory. It is excellent and weirdly enough,
kind of finly because yeah, it was sort of a
fat diet for a while. It was part of a
fat diet, believe it or not, believe it. Believe it.
When I was thinking about this, I at first I thought,
(01:12):
I don't think I've ever had Salsbury steak outside of
a frozen food dining hall situation. But then I started
thinking about the difference between country fried steak um and
Salsbury steak, and I think in my family, even though
we called it country fried steak, it was actually Salsbury
steak because it wasn't breaded. Yeah, and it had brown gravy,
(01:33):
and I guess chicken fried steak usually has white gravy.
This is from a very quick preparsory Google search, and
white gravy is how my grandmother served it chicken fried steak.
But that was also it wasn't like a burger anyway,
So maybe I've had more different episode. I don't think
I've ever had Salsbury steak. I don't think I've had
(01:56):
a lot of meat loaf, yes, which is adjacent. Yeah,
my dad loved what I think was now Salisbury steak.
That was like one of his favorite things. Yes, and
we wanted to say before we get started. Hamburger Future
episode definitely happening. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we had to.
(02:17):
It's adjacent. There's a Venn diagram. Yes, we're going to
mention some Hamburger facts because they are closely related, but
that it's a whole, it's deserving of its own episode.
Oh absolutely, yes. But today we are talking about something else,
which brings us to our question. Salves very steak, what
(02:38):
is it well. Salisbury steak is a dish consisting of
ground meat, usually beef sometimes beef and pork, formed into
ovular patties and pan fried a k a sauteid, then
finished or perhaps served with gravy, usually a brown gravy
or or sometimes what I've seen referred to as a
as a brown sauce, which if you're not from the
(02:59):
American mid ust you might be confused about it. Just
it doesn't have flour, I think is the main differ anyway. Um, Yes,
the patties are often plumped up and made more cohesive
with bread crumbs and or a raw egg, and seasoned
with stuff like a salt and pepper of course, but
then worce to shear, sauce, ketchup, mustard, powder and onion.
The patties are cooked completely through. Sometimes onions are also
(03:21):
cooked down in the gravy, and mushrooms are sometimes added
to that as well. And yeah, the gravy itself is
made from broth again usually beef sometimes chicken more worse
to shear and catch up, and flour or cornstarch as
a thickener. The result is salty and savory and tender
soft and like just a whole pile of comforting. Um.
It's often served with other comfort foods that pair well
(03:43):
with gravy, like mashed potatoes or like soft dinner rolls,
and alongside steamed or boiled vegetables like green peas, carrots,
or green beans. And yeah, for all y'all who ain't
from around here, that means that this is a like
really classic mid century Midwestern American sort of dish. Yeah,
which is very funny because I I thought it was English,
(04:06):
And despite being a popular dish in England, it is
not named after Salisbury, England. It's an American originalsh ish. Yes,
and these days it also kind of sometimes it's called
hamburger steak yeah um. And it can be made as
simply or as fancily as you want, with a different
meats or blends of ground meats, a pork, turkey, venison,
(04:29):
feel lean or fatty cuts. Other ingredients in the patties
from like bell peppers or celery, to halapenos to buttercracker crumbs,
too prepared mustard, to spinach, to garlic or fresh herbs.
You can use dried soup mix or bullion or canned
condensed soup or canned gravy. You can make a beshamel,
you can add sherry. You can bake the ingredients plus
(04:51):
potatoes up in like a casserole. Part of the appeal
is that it's adaptable to what you have on hand,
and it's honestly pretty difficult to like bess up beyond
ed ability. Yeah, I can see that. It was very wonderful.
And I'm going to insert a solid piece of life
advice right here. Okay, do not do not look up
(05:15):
the Urban Dictionary definition of Saulsberry steak. I am begging you,
don't do it. Oh okay, this is not some kind
of trick. It is not reverse psychology. Okay, just just don't.
Just for for your own sanity, don't do it. Your
life will be better all for it. Okay, all right, well,
duly noted. That's you know, if I could, if I
(05:35):
could go back in time and tell myself not to
look up certain things, I would take my own advice. Well,
I am offering advice now, and I beg you it.
Uh well, yes, that brings us to nutrition. God, sure,
let's talk about nutrition. Uh yeah, it's it's I mean,
(05:57):
it's pan fried beef, you know, so like it's high
in protein. It's got a good smattering of minerals depending
on how you make it, of course. Um, the the
dish tends to have a lot of fat and salt,
not a lot of fiber or vitamins. Like it'll fill
you up, but is best paired with vegetables and some
grains to help keep you going. Yeah. Yeah, and we
do have some numbers. Well, yeah, Like it's difficult to
(06:20):
gauge the popularity of this dish because it's such a
homey kind of thing, but yeah, a couple numbers for you. Um.
The most made and reviewed recipe for Salsbury steak on
all recipes dot com UM that I could find anyway,
has been made by at least seven thousand users and
reviewed three thousand times, and it is a It's rated
a four and a half star recipe by those users.
(06:42):
Nice so good, and it shows up all over the
place in a prepared food companies UH product lineups, UM Banquet,
Boston Market, Didn'teemore, Hormel, Healthy Choice, Hungry, man Lin Cuisine,
Marie Calendars, Michelina's Staffers. It comes canned and frozen dinners
and shelf stable microwave meals. Um, there's a banquet brand
(07:04):
frozen Salisbury steak pot pie. I've had. That's it good?
I mean yeah, it's salty in it. It's like a
nice pie crust, so pretty good. Uh. Have restaurants and
other food service outlets can buy like frozen pans of
like fifty Salisbury steaks at one go. WHOA. If that's
(07:25):
the thing you're interested in, it's out there there you go.
It exists. And this is one of those dishes named
after one specific and very fascinating person, Dr James Henry Salisbury.
And we'll get into that, but first we're gonna take
a quick break for word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(07:51):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and again Hamburger meatloaf
different episodes, but very briefly. Cattle were domesticated around ten
thousand years ago in Mesopotamia. I'm pretty sure that's come
up in a another episode in there was an influx
of German immigrants into the United States after several revolutions
(08:12):
reverberated across the thirty nine states of the German Confederation.
Several of these German immigrants opened beer gardens, where they
offered meats prepared in the German style. In particular the
style of Hamburg, a German city known for its high
quality beef. This beef was prepared as chopped steak, and
this was called Hamburg style, although in the US the
(08:34):
quality of the beef was not that high, not equitable
to what you'd get in Hamburg. Nevertheless, the name sounded
classier than ground beef, so they went with it. The
dish went mainstream in America after its appearance at the
eighteen seventy six World's Fair in Philadelphia, becoming a cheap
menu item across the country. And yes, yes, Hamburg Hamburger.
(08:56):
Different episode. Also, there's a book called Hamburger History. Yes,
I want to read it, but no, not now, not
not today, at this time. It wasn't in the mid
of the middle note in this current day time. Yes,
it wasn't uncommon for chopped raw beef to be prescribed
for digestive problems. Inter Dr Salisbury. Okay, this guy, this
(09:22):
whole dude, Oh my gosh. He was born in Scott,
New York in eighty three. After getting degrees in chemistry
and natural science, he headed to medical school. And he
was a big believer that you are what you eat,
and that food majorly impacts your health. And not only
that certain foods were preventative and curative, especially of digestive ailments.
(09:45):
One of the best foods for your health and digestive
system in his mind missed beef patties sure cooked unlike
previous recommendations. Not only that, he warned against overconsumption of
fruits and vegetables quote at the expense of more substantial
elements a L I M E N s um and led.
(10:06):
This led to children having what he called summer complaints. So, okay,
if you've never heard the term element as I had not,
it's um. It's just a now archaic and slightly hoity toity,
or at least like very technical way of saying nourishment
or sustenance. It dates from the fourteen hundreds from Latin,
and was common in medical texts through the early eighteen hundreds.
(10:29):
So he was honestly being like a little pretentious. No,
not this guy. That doesn't sound right. Oh, and if
you've never heard the term summer complaints as I had not, UM,
it means a gas for intestinal infection UM, particularly from
like bacterial food poisoning, and particularly resulting in diarrhea like
dysentery um, the kind of like a fun term for
(10:51):
dysentery um and most dangerous in children and infants, and
so yeah, a summer complaints was a cause of much
concern during the hot summer months in places with poor sanitation.
UM from the early eighteen hundreds through like the nineties
or fifties. UM the term passed out of usage in
the following decades. But okay, how did Dr Salsbury arrive
(11:16):
at the conclusion that chopped beef was a health food?
Well fascinating science of a kind of a kind. According
to the explanation contained in the preface of his book
that he wrote quote in eighteen fifty four, the idea
came to me in one of my solitary hours to
(11:36):
try the effect of living exclusively upon one food at
a time. This experiment I began upon myself alone. At first,
I opened this line of experiments with baked beans. I
had not lived upon this food over three days before
light began to break. I became very flatulent and constipated,
head dizzy, ears, ringing, limbs, prickly, and was wholly unfitted
(11:59):
for mental work. The microscopic examination of passages showed that
the bean food did not digest. Well, that guy has
some interesting hobbies living off of baked beans. Yeah, I mean,
I can see why those symptoms would be occurring. I
can as well. But his curiosity was not satiated, and
(12:23):
he somehow convinced six other people to come live with
him while subsisting often all baked bean diet in eighteen
fifty eight. And I could not stop laughing at this
and thinking about the lighthouse beans don't billion beans? Gosh,
you got a respect for the determination. Sure. He went
(12:44):
on to convince for other people to do something similar
with oatmeal porridge for thirty whole days. Oh my gosh. Yeah.
He conducted several more of these tests, eventually arriving at
the conclusion at the most easily digestible food was lean
mith beef, removed of connective tissue and fully cooked. He
believed this so strongly he decided to test out his
(13:04):
theories during the Civil War, giving Union soldiers beset with
chronic diarrhea chopped beef. And that's pretty much it. Yeah,
like three times a day, chopped beef. No vegetables, definitely,
no vegetables, yes, terrible. Yes. And also he was a
Civil War doctor by the way, it wasn't like he
was just some dude. Oh hey, can I conduct an
experiment on your six soldiers. Here's a Civil war doctor. Yes, yes, yes,
(13:27):
that that Yes he was. That is a true and
honest fact. He postulated the problem lined in the Emilsius
Army Biscuit diet. That's a quote. Here's what he specifically advised.
The first step is to wash out the sour stomach
and bowels and to change the food. The food selected
should be such as is least liable to ferment with
alcohol and acid yeast. This is muscle pulp of beef,
(13:50):
prepared as heretofore described, when it affords the maximum of
nourishment with the minimum of effort to the digestive organs.
Nothing else, nothing else but his food, except an occasional
change to broiled mutton just for just for flavor, Yeah,
every now and then. And yes, before the dish took
(14:11):
on his name, Salisbury called it muscle pulp of beef. Yeah.
And like note here that he wasn't actually talking about
ground beef. Um. The meat grinders that we know and
love today weren't invented until the eighteen nineties. Um, and
he wasn't talking about minced beef, although ground and minced
are parallel terms from British to American English. But he
(14:32):
wasn't talking about mincing up beef with a knife. UM.
His muscle pulp of beef called for the cook to
chop the surface of the meat repeatedly like pushing with
your kind of dull knife, I guess, like the fibrous
tissue of the meat down into the cutting board, and
then occasionally at intervals scraping the pulp off of the top.
(14:55):
Um to to use that to make your patties. UM.
At the time, a co and device for doing this
kind of work was not a knife as we would
use today, UM, but like a semicircle of metal with
a blade along the round edge and a handle on
the flat edge, UM, for use on a cutting board
or in a cutting bowl a cutting bowl. M. Yeah.
After thirty years of research in Salisbury published a book
(15:18):
all about this, all about his findings, called The Relation
of Alimentation and Disease. He wrote, healthy alimentation are feeding
upon such foods as a system can well digest and assimilate,
is always promotive of good health. Unhealthy alimentation always acts
as a cause of disease. And this is a whole book.
You can read it if you want to. Um. Interesting
(15:42):
to me, utmost is that his recipe for this muscle
pulp of lean beef made into cakes and broiled in
this book calls for worst to shear sauce if desired
UM other optional seasonings including mustard, horseradish, and lemon juice,
and he recommends a butter, salt and pepper in any case. Um.
Just I don't know. It's so weird and wonderful to
me that, like worster shear sauce was one of the
(16:03):
things that has remained stable in this recipe totally despite this, dude. Interesting.
Oh there was another and I don't remember the name
of it off the top of my head, there was
another um sauce that he said was acceptable to add in.
But but apparently it was like some kind of rival
to wister shear sauce, and like it did not make history.
(16:24):
So yeah, that's a rabbit hole for a different day though. Um. Yeah.
Also in this book, Salsbury recommended a new fangled device
for preparing his steaks UM, a chopper driven by a
hand crank. UM and the name of this thing was
American Chopper, which makes it real hilarious to Google search
(16:45):
these days. Yeah, I got a lot of memes and
not a whole lot of what I was looking for.
Helicopter images, There's or or the or the motorcycle TV
show American Shopper. Yeah, yeah, a lot of that anyway.
Also in this book, Salisbury claims that the stomach is
a meat digesting organ. That is a quote, um, which
(17:08):
he says explains why you can avoid disease for a
lot longer eating meat than eating even quote the best
vegetable products. Wow, he had it out for vegetables, he did. Um.
He also claimed that uh and I quote consumption strictly speaking,
is a disease caused by abnormal or unhealthy feeding or
feeding too excessively on the various preparations of grains, vegetables, sweets,
(17:32):
and fruits and the products developed from them by fermentation.
And you know, consumption is tuberculosis, which is an infectious
bacterial lung disease. Um. But to be fair, that had
only been sessed out like six years earlier, in two
and research into the disease was still ongoing. But I
just that one cracked me up. Anyway, people flipped out
(17:57):
about this book in a positive way. Yes, oh, they
of it. Englishwoman Elma Stewart was one of the most
the biggest fans. She raved about it and highly recommended it.
She got so many responses about the wonders of this
diet after she recommended it in her book What Must
I Do to Get Well and How Do I Keep
So she published some of these responses that she received,
(18:17):
and they were rave reviews. The diet was extremely popular
for the next twenty years. Oh yeah, um one Dr
W M. Hepburn wrote glowingly about it the book and
in the Philadelphia Medical and Surgical Journal and recommended purposefully
dulling the blades on your choppers so that you so
that you really mashed the meat. U Um. The dish
(18:41):
might not have gotten its name all the way until though.
Um that's the first known record imprint, according to Miriam Webster,
and yeah, history has been less kind. These initial reviewers
were um. The Google books scanned version of the second
edition bears a handry note on the title page that reads,
(19:02):
not worth the price of the paper periand Burn day
oh gosh um and yes. Meanwhile, developing again around the
same time, in the United States was this other chopped
beef patty dish, the hamburg steak. Yes. One nineteen o
(19:25):
four recipe for Hamburger steak called for a beef gravy
made of fat, flower water and catchup. Yeah yeah, adding
that ketchup into their um. And this recipe was from
the U. S. Navy's cookbook, indicating that the dish was
considered a decent combination of like healthful, approachable um, easy
to make, and inexpensive um. And it would persist in
(19:45):
Navy cookbooks largely unchanged throughout the years. Um. So yeah,
it wouldn't be called Salisbury steak until two edition. Um. Meanwhile,
also in nineteen o four, visitors to the St. Louis
World's Fair could try a trendy new dish, hamburg steak sandwiches.
And by this time, Yeah, the Auger driven meat grinder
(20:07):
had made it much easier to prepare meat for patties
like this. Salisbury steak fell to the wayside, eclipsed by
Hamburg steak and these fancy new hamburgers. Right. Salisbury stake
did experience a resurgence during World War One, when Americans
avoided German sounding foods. Yes and so here's where Nazis
come in. Yes, you never know from some things I read.
(20:31):
Frankfurter also fell prey to this, going from liberty sausage first,
and then hot dog and other foods as well. Oh yeah.
A nineteen eighteen petition to the USS Federal Food Administration
to rename sauer Kraut liberty cabbage, for example. Yeah, this
petition was largely backed by grocers and distributors who saw
(20:51):
a sharp decrease in sauer Kraut sales during the war.
They wanted to change the name to something quote, Americans
could be proud of. Yes, and even measles got in
the mix. Newspapers at the time began referring to what
had previously been called German measles as liberty measles. Oh
that's not huh. Indeed, I think he could have just
(21:14):
given that to the Germans if they didn't like them. Yeah,
come on, docksons became liberty pups. Okay, that one, I'm
totally on. We could try to bring that back. Cities
with German sounding names renamed themselves. It was a whole
It was a whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Post World War One,
White Castle, Yes, that one. The self proclaimed first fast
(21:38):
food restaurant chain in the United States, more researchers and needed,
but that's what their website says. With a burger as
their main menu item, changed the name of their burger
to Saulsberry Steak. Still, the burgers remained unpopular, so White
Castle switched it up with many burgers they called sliders
with a y. Huh yeah. During the sing of World
(22:00):
War Two, um hamburg steak or Salisbury steak as it
was becoming to be known, um was seen as a
as a recipe that could help stretch meat with the
addition of stuff like a cream of wheat, oats, a
ground soy. And I am not the only one who
has this association with frozen food and Salisbury stage certainly not.
It was a very popular TV dinner option in the
(22:21):
second wave of frozen meals in the nineteen sixties. Yeah again, like,
it's difficult to make it inedible even when freezing and
reheating are involved because of the of the of the
relative um feel forgive me like flatness of flavor. Uh,
It's it's it's just I won't forgive that. It's it's
a new mommy bomb and that's fine. That's great. It's
delicious um. And and also that the moisture of the
(22:42):
gravy makes it a lot easier to not totally mess
up the meat, right yeah um. According to America's Test Kitchen,
Swanson introduced the probably first frozen Salsbury steak as part
of a special three course TV dinner in nineteen sixty
special three course Tevy dinner. Yeah, and it's remained a
popular frozen meal. Uh and and a popular recipe in
(23:07):
the armed forces. Fascinating stuff it is. Yeah. So the
reason we don't call it hamburg stick is because there
was this weirdo who published a weirdo book about it
for Treatment of Dysenterry. Yes, and then Nazis and then Nazis.
(23:28):
It's the t LDR version coverage everything you need. I
this is just it's delightful. Yeah. I'm glad we finally
I can finally mark it off the list. Me too.
I didn't know that this was such a burning question
for you. I'm sorry that we didn't do it sooner.
I think every time I suggested it you were kind
(23:49):
of like, really, what why? But now now I understand
now you know, so do you listeners? But we do
have a little bit more for you. But first we've
got one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(24:15):
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with I. I haven't worked on my impressions.
I'm sorry, but I I did used to believe I
had a really good Sean Connery impression. I think I
was wrong. Oh okay, but I was thinking of the
(24:35):
lighthouse and it went that weird direction. Sure you do
know that that wasn't Sean Connery. Col I was aware
of that fact, but they had a similar vibe. There
was certainly a thing that was happening. That's what the
movie called the movie were you There certainly was a
(25:01):
thing that was happening. That's actually about how I feel
about that. So I don't see it have fun. I
quite enjoyed it. Oh, it's definitely a trip. It's a
trip anyway, anyway, Zach wrote a longtime Listener, first time
writer here, I couldn't help but share about my new
love of rum agricole thanks to y'all. I grew up
(25:22):
in a family with a rich history of moonshining, brandy
and whiskey and distill living tradition of homemade wine making,
and my uncle is the one in the family who
has the most refined taste for his spirits. I think
any Southern gentleman hitting way might right. He swears by
Mount Gay Rum. You might imagine that at my own
coming of age, his taste of liquor would be the
(25:43):
one that I would choose to emulate. For years now,
I've always jumped to using the same rum for any
occasion that might call from mixed drinks. When I heard
the episode on Rum Agricole, I made a mental note
to try this cousin to rum as soon as I
got the chance. I'm a recent post grad transplant to
your decatur. I welcome today. Some new friends of mine
invited me to s O S Tiki Bar last night.
(26:04):
When I got there, felt the tiki vibes and saw
the cocktails on the menu, I said, if ever there
was a place in a t l that have it,
it's here. I asked the bartender if they had any.
Andy grinned and made me a tea punch. I have
a new love, and we'll be searching for a bottle soon.
I can't wait to learn how to make tea punch
and share some with my dad and uncle to see
what they think about it. Oh yeah, that's so exciting.
(26:26):
It is so exciting. I've also been looking for it
all around Atlanta. Um. I can tell you that they've
got like a few of them at Wrecking Bar in
Little Five. Um. Oh gosh, there's at least two other
places I found, But now I'm totally forgetting them anyway. Yes,
there are options, perhaps not as many as we would like,
there are, there are, Memory wrote, I just finished listening
(26:50):
to your episode on cinnamon rolls and thought i'd share
a few things. First, mashed potatoes in the dough. Absolutely.
My great aunt Betty's cinnamon roll recipe is a family
classic and has mashed potatoes in the dough. Being from Idaho,
that didn't surprise me. We make all kinds of things
with mashed potatoes as an ingredient, potato donuts, potato bread,
cinnamon rolls are what come to mind right away. Second,
(27:10):
Chilian cinnamon rolls were a school lunch classic for all
of my years in public school. We were always so
excited as the smell of baking cinnamon rolls wafted down
the school hallways. One of my friends moms would come
and eat lunch at school. She would sign up to
be the classroom helper and then stay and buy school
lunch only on the days we had cinnamon rolls. My
friends said, she would wait until the months a lunch
(27:31):
menu was published and then call a teacher to sign
up to come help on that day. My aunt always
made cinnamon rolls in chili around Halloween. It was their
family start a fall tradition. And lastly, the sticky buns
or money bread reminded me of the Christmas morning breakfast
of my growing up. My husband and kids don't like
sweets for breakfast, so I have not continued the tradition
(27:52):
in my family when we have Christmas without the grandparents.
My mom always called them butter Scotch rolls, and they're
super easy and so delicious. And if you've got frozen
rolls in your freezer section of your grocery store, you
don't need to be afraid of making something with east bread. Lauren, huh. Also,
I thought i'd mentioned a few interesting food related things.
(28:14):
A town nearby a Blackfoot, Idaho, has a small museum
called the Potato Museum. It has interesting information on the
history of the potato and farming harvest and consumption of them,
as well as cafe to be able to enjoy a
baked spud. A still operating. Last I heard drive in
movie theater called the Spud Drive In, located between the
small towns of Drigs and Victor, Idaho, has an old
(28:35):
potato truck with a massive potato out front, as well
as outside the ticket booth several life sized potatoes Mr.
Potato head style. They're almost always outside for photo opportunities.
Also not to be missed in the Mountain West is
the wonderfully uniquely flavored huckleberry. I've also heard it called
a wild mountain blueberry, though I'm not sure if they're
(28:55):
really the same thing. They're ripe in the fall, and
as far as I know, are only found in the wild,
so require foraging to pick them. Locals have huckleberry patch
spots in the mountains, areas of wilderness open to hiking
and often range cattle, whose precise locations are fiercely guarded secrets.
Oh man, so you have to know someone. I love it.
(29:16):
I actually embarrassingly thought huckleberries were not real. Oh I
did not know it was a real thing. Oh yeah,
I from Yeah, No, like snowsberries, fictional, huckleberries real. I
just got my berries berry wires crossed. It's understandable. I
love this. I would love to go and see the
(29:38):
Potato Museum and right, so good. That is so good.
Maybe one day maybe well Field trips, yes, so many.
But in the meantime, Thanks to both of those listeners
for writing. We would love to hear from all of
you listeners. If you would like to email as you can.
Our email is hello at saber pod dot com. We're
also on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
(30:00):
and Instagram at saver pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. For more podcasts to my heart Radio,
you can visit to the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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