October 2, 2024 • 27 mins
This black lager belies its heavy look with a light, crisp feel. Anney and Lauren dip into the science and history of Schwarzbier.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
any Reason and I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Bubbla Bam, and today we're talking about Schwarzbier.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, yes, was there any particular reason this was on
your mind? Lord?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yes, we are currently in the midst of the season
of Octoberfest. Happy October Fest, y'all drink responsibly. And so
I was looking for a beer that we have not
done before, and that is not Pilsner because because I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, because our ambition always stretches so farm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It does not stretch to Pilsner yet. But this is
a style of beer that I love. There are a
couple of local breweries that do really lovely turns on it.
Just saw one on a menu the other week and
I was like, yeah, what about that?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What about that? Once again, I've probably had one. Can't
tell you for sure, Aunt tell you for sure. Have
you had a lovely Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Have you had like a dark logger of some kind?
I mean probably, You're not usually a beer drinker, to
be fair, It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And even though I was incorrect, as we're going to
talk about in this episode, and we kind of talked
about in Ourgannis episode. I always assume darker beer is heavier,
and I usually am a much like I go for
much quote lighter beers. Sure, so I probably would have
avoided it, even though it sounds like that was not
the case that Nope, it would not have been heavier. Well,
(01:46):
this is why I love working on SAVER. I learned
something all the time. Yeah. Yes, that being said, Yeah,
we have done several beer episodes in the past, so
check those out.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, perhaps especially for this one. Uh Bach Beers and
also stout slash Porters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah yes, but not pilsner. No, because we haven't done
that yet. No, it haunts us like a GHOSTO. It's
in every beer episode. Yeah, yeah it is. That's why
it's perfect for the first day of October, which is
when we're recording this ghostly lingers over this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Kale malt pilsner.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, dang you pilsner. Uh later date, but for now.
I guess that brings us to our question. Yeah, schwartz beer,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, schwartzpear is a type of dark Logger style beer
that feels really crisp and light, but also has these bitter,
roasty malt flavors, like like dark chocolate and brown toast
and coffee. A lot of beers get their bitterness from hops,
and you can have a bit of that in a schwartzpear,
but you're mostly getting those flavors from the malts or
(03:15):
toasted grains that go into it. Schwartzpears are kind of
middle of the road on alcohol content, right around five
percent alcohol by volume, and yeah, they wind up with
this very dark brown to black color from those roasted malts,
but with very little acid and very little sweetness to them.
It'll be almost opaque in the glass, with like a thick, white,
(03:37):
cream colored head of foam. Maybe you get a glint
of amber if there's a light behind it, but it's
not at all thick on the palate. Yeah, it doesn't
feel heavy, So it is a little bit of a
psych out in a glass, Like it looks like you're
about to drink something downright chewy, but it's just brisk,
like the like the crunch of dry leaves underfoot and
(03:59):
a slight chill on your neck.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think for me it's a perfect fall beer because
it is so so crisp and light, almost summery, like
it's a good end of summer towards fall beer. But
then yeah, but then you've got those nice toasty, roasty flavors,
so yeah, anyway, okay, beer beer Beer is a grain
soup or grain tea perhaps that you balance with bitter
(04:28):
hops and then ferment using friendly yeasts that eat some
of the sugars in the grains and then poop alcohol,
carbon dioxide, and flavors yeast food. So when you're making beer,
your first step is finding some grains to ferment. In
the case of shorts beer, you traditionally go with just barley.
(04:50):
But before you do the fermenting, you want to develop
the flavors and the sugars in your grains to you know,
flavor your beer and also give give your yeast the
most food to work with. So you do this by
malting the grains. That is, you let them just barely
start to germinate or sprout, because grains are seeds, and
(05:12):
when they start the sprouting process they convert some of
their complex carbohydrates into simpler carbohydrates. But you're not looking
for a whole plant, so you then toast or roast
them to stop that germination and also to add color
and flavor through caramelization and the Miard process, and that
is your malt. And there are many, many specific varietals
(05:34):
of barley treated in specific ways to create just all
kinds of barley malts from like pale gold to deep
amber to black in color, with all kinds of different
bready toasty, roasty flavors. For schwartz beer, you're actually using
mostly a pale, crisp malt, like a Pilsner malt, and
(05:55):
then just a little bit of darker malt to get
a popa color and like a moving roundness in there,
often with a real teaensy but very powerful punch from
a dark, bitter, de husked roasted malt. Next up you
have hops, which is your typical bittering agent that is
(06:17):
sort of a supporting actor to the bitter malts. In
this case, just a little delicate hop action going on
in schwartzpear. It'll add a tiny little like floral or
woody sort of aroma. Traditionally, hops help control any any
wild bacteria and yeasts that get into your beer too.
So okay, you boil your malts and hops and water,
this is your work. Then add yeast to make the
(06:40):
magic happen. And by magic I mean science. Schwartz Spear
is a lagger type beer, which means it's fermented with
lagger yeasts, which thrive at cool temperatures and will sync
to the bottom of a fermenting vessel as they work.
They are also called bottom fermenting yeasts for this reason.
And this is all in contrast to top fermenting warm
temperature ale yeasts. Yeah, okay. For Schwartzpeer's sort of delicate
(07:04):
flavors and texture, brewers often go kind of low and
slow with their fermentation process. One extra ingredient may be added,
a type of coloring agent made from concentrated malt extract
called roast maltz beer or fiber beer. I think I
(07:24):
added an extra r in there fb beer. That sounded righter.
Sure anyway, those literally mean roasted malt beer or beer
coloring respectively. Yeah, because these are coloring extracts made from malt,
which therefore means that they're allowed under German beer law.
Because it's made from malt, it's more or less flavorless,
(07:47):
but bright can darken the color of your beer or
other foods and drinks.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's also used in other industries.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And then schwartz beer finally is a matured or loggered
in a cold cellar several weeks. The end result is
this refreshingly bitter, dark crisp beer, and brewers can play
around with different malts and hops and yeasts to produce
like fun variations on those flavors. For example, I've seen
(08:15):
a few smoked short speers, which incorporates smoked malts for
like a really fun, twisty depth of flavor. Yeah. The
classic example of the style is from Kustretzer Brewery. I
think I just listened to it nine times, and I
think I still got a little bit wrong. It's this
long standing brewery out in like central eastern Germany, in
the state of Thuringia, southwest of Berlin.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yes, which we will be talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh yeah, but what about the nutrition drink responsibly?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, so yes, uh, we have a couple of numbers
things for you. Yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
As of two thousand and nine, Germany it was producing
some one hundred and ten million leaders of schwarzbeer per year,
and u KOs Streitzer was responsible for about a third
of that.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Dang.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah. Yeah. And this year twenty twenty four, Hop Culture
magazine actually named named twenty twenty four the year of
the dark lagger.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So I can't feel if that it's ominous or if
I'm just crimed all the time, or if it's both.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't think. I mean, I don't think it's dark
as in like the Dark Side.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's it's just something about it, the year the dark. Yeah,
you're right. Well, the history on this one is a
little dark. It's a little a little middled, I'll say
(10:00):
it is.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It is as with many beer episodes, and we are
going to get into that as soon as we get
back from a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes,
as with all of these beer episodes, we must start
at the beginning with beers old, like really really old.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Very old. It's a possibility that humans took up agriculture
because they were like, huh, this beer stuff is cool,
we want to make more of it. That's one of
the theories.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, So it's been around a while, and again you
can see past episodes we've done about beer far more
on that, and there's really fascinating history around the brewing
of it, the early brewing of it. Of course, kind
of accidental discovery of it potentially, but.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, yeah, I think our sours episode goes into that goza. Yeah,
it was generally sours, could be anything, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It could be anything, but yeah. So this is very,
very old, but when it comes to shortz beer, there
aren't a lot of specifics to go buy. Historians speculate
that this style of quote black beer has been around
since ancient times, and some evidence suggests that similar types
of beer were being brewed as far back as eight
(11:34):
hundred BCE in Germany. And this evidence was discovered in
a Bavarian tomb in nineteen thirty five, So that suggests
that it was well loved, yes, being packed away in
this too. Yes. According to some sources, the spiritual predecessors
of schwartz beer originated in parts of Germany during ancient
(11:54):
Roman times, which makes sense because around then farmers in
the area grew or had access to a whole range
of things good for beer brewing, like frye we eat, barley,
and oats. They were far removed enough from the taste
and influence of Roman ruralty who preferred wine, that they
could brew what they wanted. So from some things I read,
(12:14):
it was viewed beer was seen as sort of like
for the lesser and they were like, now we're into it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Also, in a lot of these areas you couldn't really
grow grapes, and so yeah, they were with what they
had exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
One of the earliest known written records of a short
speer style beer dates back to thirteen ninety out of
bron Schweig, Germany, And just a note. Around this time,
brewing practices and taste were growing and regionalizing as people
experimented with available ingredients and developed signature styles that people
grew taste for, for example, the types of malt used,
(12:50):
if at all, how they're roasted, things like that. So
we were seeing sort of styles of beer popping up. Yes,
a town in Germany called bod Kustritz started brewing short
speer in fifteen forty three, advertising that their beer was
made with mineral rich water. At the time, the town
(13:12):
was somewhat of a spa town people visited for their health,
and the beer was painted as something like a health string.
In this context in German, Bod refers to a spa town.
And there's actually some really interesting science about the water specifically.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, the pH and the minerality and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
M hm yes, and as mentioned one brewery, Costritza, has
been brewing the style of beer in the region since
around this time. This brewery has a storied history, or
at least that's what the sources tell me. The story
goes that a knight, brewing in his manner, created an
(13:54):
ale or logger type beer that caught the attention of
others and eventually became a brewery. The manner did. A
decade and a half later, students at a newly founded
university were really enthusiastic about getting their hands on some
of the style of beer, and so it became more
and more popular. Sometimes during the nineteenth century, the area
(14:15):
and the brewery was taken over by the House of
Russ and the brewery was called the Princely Costitza Brewery,
which I love. Heck yeah, brewers weren't always allowed to
do as they wanted. This comes up in a lot
of our beer episodes. Laws determined some of what they
did too. We've talked about the weren Heitskabat, a fifteen
(14:38):
sixteen German beer purity law that limited beer ingredients to malt, hops, water,
and yeast. In the Bavarian region. The law was originally
enacted because producers were not being completely honest about their products,
sometimes even using dangerous ingredients. There's also like taxation usually
involved stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Also, apparently these were not the only brewery laws that
came into existence vaguely around this time. Cities and Thuringia
actually had their own like malt hops water yeast laws
for beer going back to thirteen forty eight.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Apparently yep, yep, pip yep. Going jumping ahead a little bit,
more modern traditions around black beer brewing likely solidified in
the nineteenth century, and some speculate that this is when
brewers started using lagger yeast in their process consistently.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Anyway, Yeah, because before refrigeration technologies started kicking up in
the mid eighteen hundreds or so, people would have been
using whichever type of yease they could get to work
to be fair in this cooler region, it may often
have been logger yeasts to begin with. Today it is
only logger yeasts. Another technological leap helped develop dark beer
(15:57):
styles starting around the same time, back into the seventeen
huns reads a little bit. Innovations in fuel that allowed
for more controlled malt roasting, a product of coal called
coke gave us both non smoky dark malts and also
these new crisp pale malts.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yes, but this is also when the popularity of the
pilsner almost eliminated all other beer styles are ghost.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, yes, yes, because those pale malts came into the
scene and people were like, whoa, this is new, I
like this one, yes yeah yes, oh yeah. And also
microbiology was starting to develop as a field, and so
we started figuring out how to better control the process,
and so you got you got to have these very
(16:49):
clean tasting beers.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, right, future episode, but all the pieces are Nonetheless,
a schwartzpear almost died out in Germany during World War
Two and after when Germany was split into East and West.
The Coast Stritzer Brewery may have actually benefited from this
(17:11):
because it ended up on the East side where the
brewery was nationalized, and some people think that if it
hadn't been for that, like they wouldn't have kept making
this type of beer. Yeah. The situation turned around after
German reunification in nineteen ninety ninety one, when more and
more brewers started producing schwartz beeer, not just in Germany
(17:33):
but across Europe. Sometime soon after Schwartzpear made the trip
overseas to the.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
US in the early two thousands, new regulations sort of
tightened the production laws for bottom fermented beers in Germany,
unless you're making beers for export, in which case it's
a little bit looser. But yeah, if you're going to
sell bottom fermented beer in Germany, you now have to
(18:01):
make it with barley, no other molts allowed.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay. Well, here in the US, Schwartzpear saw an increase
in popularity during the craft brewery movement. As you mentioned, Lauren,
a bunch of places, well, I say, a good handful
of places offer one now.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, and other countries like Japan brew blackloggers as well,
so that is also a whole other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, there are plenty of other things that
fall into the category of darker black laggers. And it's
it's a it is a really interesting style because right
like it's a little bit more forgiving, or you can
be a little bit more playful perhaps than you can
with the pale logger, which in which case you're usually
going for something very straightforward. And and yeah, yeah, you
(18:55):
can get a little bit funky, a little bit, a
little bit more funky, I think with a with a
Schwartz your type style.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Love it. I'm going to be on on the lookout.
But also people, people of you listeners, if you have
experience with this, if you're from another country like Japan,
which does seem to have a big blacklogger scene, please
write in.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, or if you've if you've been to any of
these breweries that we mentioned, or yeah, anything, anything at all,
We would love to hear about it. In the meanwhile,
we do already have some listener mail for you, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break forward from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with the listening. Falling Leaves. Yeah, yes, oh
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You were ready in like April, I.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Know, I know. And I have friends who are like
dread this time because they hate winter. Fall sort of
just negatively associated with winter. Yeah, but I'm like, fall
is my favorite. Yeah, falls favorite. I will admit it's
not long enough in Atlanta, but it is not. It
is not. It's a very short season, but I love
(20:28):
it while it's here. M Joy wrote in your Yuzuo episode,
you ask her stories of experience with fresh yuzoo. I
have one. When I was teaching English and Japan, I
bought a large bag of fresh yu zoo at a
fruit stand in a rural town on the Yazoo Peninsula
for the amazing price of one hundred yen. I would
(20:50):
peel them like oranges and eat them for the vitamin C.
The flavor was basically a packet of pure sour notes.
When my Japanese coworker found found out how I was
eating them, she was amused. She said people use uzu
for zest and to float them in their ofuru, the deep,
narrow Japanese bathtubs used for relaxation rather than washing because
(21:12):
it's too sour to eat fresh. I didn't stop eating once.
I didn't use for yuzub baths anyway. Hey, some people
love that sour taste.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh yeah, I will definitely pluck a lemon wedge out
of my beverage and just like bite down on it
so I get you.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
My niece used to at the time. I couldn't tell
if it was for shock factor. She seemed to actually
enjoy it. She would eat lemon Oh wow, just would
eat eat it? Yeah? So you do you? Yeah, and
I'm glad also you get to use it for relaxing baths.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, lovely, it really does sound so nice. Oh I've
been I've been craving a bath. It's I I feel
like the cleanup of a bath is so much of
a pain that I'm like, why did I just take
a bath? Like now?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's stressful?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
About that anyway that I think that tells a lot
about our states of mind, because I'm similar this thing
that's supposed to be relaxing I've now made into a stressor. Yeah. No, oops,
well that sounds terrific, Carly wrote. You put out a
(22:29):
request a while ago for people to write in about
their fermentation projects. I've been making my own yogurt for
about eight years now, and I've gotten really good at
making a consistent match every time. I also got super
into kaffir a couple of years ago, both water kafir
and milk Kafir. When you had your episode on Kaffir,
I was almost shocked when it was not titled key
for Madness, a riff off of reefer Madness, but then
(22:52):
learned from you guys that it was not pronounced that way.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Oops.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
For my milk kaffir, I found it really interesting how
much the room temperature would affect the length of the
fermentation process as well as the fluffy feeling of it.
For me in Arizona, I found that the spring batches
are my favorite, but I'm not too proud to drink
my over fermented cottage cheese like batches that I let
go too long in the summer. For my water caffeir,
(23:20):
I almost always do my second fermentation, either with lemon
or lemonon lime. I've tried other fruits, but I just
love these flavors the best. When I first started making
the water kaffir, there were a few times when I
accidentally over fermented it and got a little buzzed. I've
also made my own olives, and in the winter I
make my own sour crowd as well. Ye mean, all
of that being said, last year, when I was pregnant,
(23:42):
I got pretty bad morning sickness for maybe four months.
That coupled with the new baby shortly thereafter, meant all
my fermentation projects when on hold. The yogurt I was
not concerned with because even though I would need to
start from scratch, I knew that one well enough to
confidently restart it when whenever time permits, hopefully soon. The
milk and water kaffir I had put in my fridge
(24:03):
when I could not think about food, hoping they would last.
When I tried to revive the milk kafir, I made
a few batches, throwing them out to be safe, then
let my kitty try a batch. When he approved, I
thought I was safe, but nope, it tasted like vomit.
I had to let that one go. The water kaffir shockingly,
when I revived that one was perfectly fine and happy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
What a champ.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And the sour kraut that had been in my fridge
for like a year and a half, shockingly fine and
super tender. Yay Mi g robes. Also, I loved the
prickly pear episode. I rarely see the nopalace in the
grocery stores, but will sometimes get some in my CSA
or forage for them. I learned from a forager that
you should cut the spines off with the knife near
flat against the pad and going up away from the base,
(24:49):
cut the edges off, and thoroughly inspect before consuming. I
liked to put mine in my scrambled eggs, or just
throw them into random dishes. I once had a Nopoles
taco that was divine. It almost had a bit of
a pickle flavor. I've only tried the fruit a couple
of times. I bought a prickly pear and put it
in a pot a couple of years ago so I
could eat some fruit. But most of the years it
(25:09):
just made new pads. But then it started flowering. But
that year the wind also blew it over several times
and decimated it. One time, when I bought some of
the fruit from a grocery store, the young cashier I
think was trying to show off for me and juggled them.
When I got home, I saw a lot of the
little thorns in there, so I know he must have
really regretted his life decision at that point.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Anyway, I love love.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Your show, and still often referred to it as food stuff.
Keep up the amazing work.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Oh that poor kid, Oh, oh honey bear.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Immediately it was like I was gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I'm gonna go die quietly in the break room.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Oh we've all done it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
If you're listening, who hasn't injured themselves? While flirting that
truth truth. Oh my gosh, under I understand. Well, this
(26:18):
is amazing. You have so many projects going on. I know.
Oh I love this, I love I love all of this.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I still don't.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I haven't even had water kaffir, so I'm really curious
about that. I did like laugh out loud when I
was reading this earlier and I read Reefer Madness that
that's one of my uh not the original, but the
musical making fun of the original is one of my
favorite things. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, that's pretty good. That's an excellent pun. So good company.
And I've got to hear like, it's amazing that you're
things like your sour kraut. Yeah, just lasted, just chilling, amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Literally, yeah, just hanging out. Just no problem.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You'll you'll and you'll get the rest going again. It'll
be fine.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yes, yes, keep us updated. Oh yeah, oh yeah that's updated.
But yes, thank you so much to both of these
listeners for writing in. If you would like to write
to us, you can Our email is hello at savorpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(27:40):
your way
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm
any Reason and I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Bubbla Bam, and today we're talking about Schwarzbier.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, yes, was there any particular reason this was on
your mind? Lord?
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Yes, we are currently in the midst of the season
of Octoberfest. Happy October Fest, y'all drink responsibly. And so
I was looking for a beer that we have not
done before, and that is not Pilsner because because I'm tired.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Yeah, because our ambition always stretches so farm.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
It does not stretch to Pilsner yet. But this is
a style of beer that I love. There are a
couple of local breweries that do really lovely turns on it.
Just saw one on a menu the other week and
I was like, yeah, what about that?
Speaker 1 (01:01):
What about that? Once again, I've probably had one. Can't
tell you for sure, Aunt tell you for sure. Have
you had a lovely Yeah?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Have you had like a dark logger of some kind?
I mean probably, You're not usually a beer drinker, to
be fair, It's true.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
And even though I was incorrect, as we're going to
talk about in this episode, and we kind of talked
about in Ourgannis episode. I always assume darker beer is heavier,
and I usually am a much like I go for
much quote lighter beers. Sure, so I probably would have
avoided it, even though it sounds like that was not
the case that Nope, it would not have been heavier. Well,
(01:46):
this is why I love working on SAVER. I learned
something all the time. Yeah. Yes, that being said, Yeah,
we have done several beer episodes in the past, so
check those out.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Yeah, perhaps especially for this one. Uh Bach Beers and
also stout slash Porters.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
Yeah yes, but not pilsner. No, because we haven't done
that yet. No, it haunts us like a GHOSTO. It's
in every beer episode. Yeah, yeah it is. That's why
it's perfect for the first day of October, which is
when we're recording this ghostly lingers over this.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Kale malt pilsner.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, dang you pilsner. Uh later date, but for now.
I guess that brings us to our question. Yeah, schwartz beer,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Well, schwartzpear is a type of dark Logger style beer
that feels really crisp and light, but also has these bitter,
roasty malt flavors, like like dark chocolate and brown toast
and coffee. A lot of beers get their bitterness from hops,
and you can have a bit of that in a schwartzpear,
but you're mostly getting those flavors from the malts or
(03:15):
toasted grains that go into it. Schwartzpears are kind of
middle of the road on alcohol content, right around five
percent alcohol by volume, and yeah, they wind up with
this very dark brown to black color from those roasted malts,
but with very little acid and very little sweetness to them.
It'll be almost opaque in the glass, with like a thick, white,
(03:37):
cream colored head of foam. Maybe you get a glint
of amber if there's a light behind it, but it's
not at all thick on the palate. Yeah, it doesn't
feel heavy, So it is a little bit of a
psych out in a glass, Like it looks like you're
about to drink something downright chewy, but it's just brisk,
like the like the crunch of dry leaves underfoot and
(03:59):
a slight chill on your neck.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I think for me it's a perfect fall beer because
it is so so crisp and light, almost summery, like
it's a good end of summer towards fall beer. But
then yeah, but then you've got those nice toasty, roasty flavors,
so yeah, anyway, okay, beer beer Beer is a grain
soup or grain tea perhaps that you balance with bitter
(04:28):
hops and then ferment using friendly yeasts that eat some
of the sugars in the grains and then poop alcohol,
carbon dioxide, and flavors yeast food. So when you're making beer,
your first step is finding some grains to ferment. In
the case of shorts beer, you traditionally go with just barley.
(04:50):
But before you do the fermenting, you want to develop
the flavors and the sugars in your grains to you know,
flavor your beer and also give give your yeast the
most food to work with. So you do this by
malting the grains. That is, you let them just barely
start to germinate or sprout, because grains are seeds, and
(05:12):
when they start the sprouting process they convert some of
their complex carbohydrates into simpler carbohydrates. But you're not looking
for a whole plant, so you then toast or roast
them to stop that germination and also to add color
and flavor through caramelization and the Miard process, and that
is your malt. And there are many, many specific varietals
(05:34):
of barley treated in specific ways to create just all
kinds of barley malts from like pale gold to deep
amber to black in color, with all kinds of different
bready toasty, roasty flavors. For schwartz beer, you're actually using
mostly a pale, crisp malt, like a Pilsner malt, and
(05:55):
then just a little bit of darker malt to get
a popa color and like a moving roundness in there,
often with a real teaensy but very powerful punch from
a dark, bitter, de husked roasted malt. Next up you
have hops, which is your typical bittering agent that is
(06:17):
sort of a supporting actor to the bitter malts. In
this case, just a little delicate hop action going on
in schwartzpear. It'll add a tiny little like floral or
woody sort of aroma. Traditionally, hops help control any any
wild bacteria and yeasts that get into your beer too.
So okay, you boil your malts and hops and water,
this is your work. Then add yeast to make the
(06:40):
magic happen. And by magic I mean science. Schwartz Spear
is a lagger type beer, which means it's fermented with
lagger yeasts, which thrive at cool temperatures and will sync
to the bottom of a fermenting vessel as they work.
They are also called bottom fermenting yeasts for this reason.
And this is all in contrast to top fermenting warm
temperature ale yeasts. Yeah, okay. For Schwartzpeer's sort of delicate
(07:04):
flavors and texture, brewers often go kind of low and
slow with their fermentation process. One extra ingredient may be added,
a type of coloring agent made from concentrated malt extract
called roast maltz beer or fiber beer. I think I
(07:24):
added an extra r in there fb beer. That sounded righter.
Sure anyway, those literally mean roasted malt beer or beer
coloring respectively. Yeah, because these are coloring extracts made from malt,
which therefore means that they're allowed under German beer law.
Because it's made from malt, it's more or less flavorless,
(07:47):
but bright can darken the color of your beer or
other foods and drinks.
Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's also used in other industries.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
And then schwartz beer finally is a matured or loggered
in a cold cellar several weeks. The end result is
this refreshingly bitter, dark crisp beer, and brewers can play
around with different malts and hops and yeasts to produce
like fun variations on those flavors. For example, I've seen
(08:15):
a few smoked short speers, which incorporates smoked malts for
like a really fun, twisty depth of flavor. Yeah. The
classic example of the style is from Kustretzer Brewery. I
think I just listened to it nine times, and I
think I still got a little bit wrong. It's this
long standing brewery out in like central eastern Germany, in
the state of Thuringia, southwest of Berlin.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Yes, which we will be talking about.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh yeah, but what about the nutrition drink responsibly?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Yes, so yes, uh, we have a couple of numbers
things for you. Yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 2 (08:57):
As of two thousand and nine, Germany it was producing
some one hundred and ten million leaders of schwarzbeer per year,
and u KOs Streitzer was responsible for about a third
of that.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Dang.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
Yeah. Yeah. And this year twenty twenty four, Hop Culture
magazine actually named named twenty twenty four the year of
the dark lagger.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
So I can't feel if that it's ominous or if
I'm just crimed all the time, or if it's both.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
I don't think. I mean, I don't think it's dark
as in like the Dark Side.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
It's it's just something about it, the year the dark. Yeah,
you're right. Well, the history on this one is a
little dark. It's a little a little middled, I'll say
(10:00):
it is.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
It is as with many beer episodes, and we are
going to get into that as soon as we get
back from a quick break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and yes,
as with all of these beer episodes, we must start
at the beginning with beers old, like really really old.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Very old. It's a possibility that humans took up agriculture
because they were like, huh, this beer stuff is cool,
we want to make more of it. That's one of
the theories.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, So it's been around a while, and again you
can see past episodes we've done about beer far more
on that, and there's really fascinating history around the brewing
of it, the early brewing of it. Of course, kind
of accidental discovery of it potentially, but.
Speaker 2 (11:02):
Yes, yeah, I think our sours episode goes into that goza. Yeah,
it was generally sours, could be anything, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
It could be anything, but yeah. So this is very,
very old, but when it comes to shortz beer, there
aren't a lot of specifics to go buy. Historians speculate
that this style of quote black beer has been around
since ancient times, and some evidence suggests that similar types
of beer were being brewed as far back as eight
(11:34):
hundred BCE in Germany. And this evidence was discovered in
a Bavarian tomb in nineteen thirty five, So that suggests
that it was well loved, yes, being packed away in
this too. Yes. According to some sources, the spiritual predecessors
of schwartz beer originated in parts of Germany during ancient
(11:54):
Roman times, which makes sense because around then farmers in
the area grew or had access to a whole range
of things good for beer brewing, like frye we eat, barley,
and oats. They were far removed enough from the taste
and influence of Roman ruralty who preferred wine, that they
could brew what they wanted. So from some things I read,
(12:14):
it was viewed beer was seen as sort of like
for the lesser and they were like, now we're into it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Also, in a lot of these areas you couldn't really
grow grapes, and so yeah, they were with what they
had exactly.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
One of the earliest known written records of a short
speer style beer dates back to thirteen ninety out of
bron Schweig, Germany, And just a note. Around this time,
brewing practices and taste were growing and regionalizing as people
experimented with available ingredients and developed signature styles that people
grew taste for, for example, the types of malt used,
(12:50):
if at all, how they're roasted, things like that. So
we were seeing sort of styles of beer popping up. Yes,
a town in Germany called bod Kustritz started brewing short
speer in fifteen forty three, advertising that their beer was
made with mineral rich water. At the time, the town
(13:12):
was somewhat of a spa town people visited for their health,
and the beer was painted as something like a health string.
In this context in German, Bod refers to a spa town.
And there's actually some really interesting science about the water specifically.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
Yeah, the pH and the minerality and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
M hm yes, and as mentioned one brewery, Costritza, has
been brewing the style of beer in the region since
around this time. This brewery has a storied history, or
at least that's what the sources tell me. The story
goes that a knight, brewing in his manner, created an
(13:54):
ale or logger type beer that caught the attention of
others and eventually became a brewery. The manner did. A
decade and a half later, students at a newly founded
university were really enthusiastic about getting their hands on some
of the style of beer, and so it became more
and more popular. Sometimes during the nineteenth century, the area
(14:15):
and the brewery was taken over by the House of
Russ and the brewery was called the Princely Costitza Brewery,
which I love. Heck yeah, brewers weren't always allowed to
do as they wanted. This comes up in a lot
of our beer episodes. Laws determined some of what they
did too. We've talked about the weren Heitskabat, a fifteen
(14:38):
sixteen German beer purity law that limited beer ingredients to malt, hops, water,
and yeast. In the Bavarian region. The law was originally
enacted because producers were not being completely honest about their products,
sometimes even using dangerous ingredients. There's also like taxation usually
involved stuff like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Also, apparently these were not the only brewery laws that
came into existence vaguely around this time. Cities and Thuringia
actually had their own like malt hops water yeast laws
for beer going back to thirteen forty eight.
Speaker 1 (15:18):
Apparently yep, yep, pip yep. Going jumping ahead a little bit,
more modern traditions around black beer brewing likely solidified in
the nineteenth century, and some speculate that this is when
brewers started using lagger yeast in their process consistently.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Anyway, Yeah, because before refrigeration technologies started kicking up in
the mid eighteen hundreds or so, people would have been
using whichever type of yease they could get to work
to be fair in this cooler region, it may often
have been logger yeasts to begin with. Today it is
only logger yeasts. Another technological leap helped develop dark beer
(15:57):
styles starting around the same time, back into the seventeen
huns reads a little bit. Innovations in fuel that allowed
for more controlled malt roasting, a product of coal called
coke gave us both non smoky dark malts and also
these new crisp pale malts.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
Yes, but this is also when the popularity of the
pilsner almost eliminated all other beer styles are ghost.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Yeah, yes, yes, because those pale malts came into the
scene and people were like, whoa, this is new, I
like this one, yes yeah yes, oh yeah. And also
microbiology was starting to develop as a field, and so
we started figuring out how to better control the process,
and so you got you got to have these very
(16:49):
clean tasting beers.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah, right, future episode, but all the pieces are Nonetheless,
a schwartzpear almost died out in Germany during World War
Two and after when Germany was split into East and West.
The Coast Stritzer Brewery may have actually benefited from this
(17:11):
because it ended up on the East side where the
brewery was nationalized, and some people think that if it
hadn't been for that, like they wouldn't have kept making
this type of beer. Yeah. The situation turned around after
German reunification in nineteen ninety ninety one, when more and
more brewers started producing schwartz beeer, not just in Germany
(17:33):
but across Europe. Sometime soon after Schwartzpear made the trip
overseas to the.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
US in the early two thousands, new regulations sort of
tightened the production laws for bottom fermented beers in Germany,
unless you're making beers for export, in which case it's
a little bit looser. But yeah, if you're going to
sell bottom fermented beer in Germany, you now have to
(18:01):
make it with barley, no other molts allowed.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
Okay. Well, here in the US, Schwartzpear saw an increase
in popularity during the craft brewery movement. As you mentioned, Lauren,
a bunch of places, well, I say, a good handful
of places offer one now.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:20):
Yeah, and other countries like Japan brew blackloggers as well,
so that is also a whole other thing.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
Oh yeah, yeah, there are plenty of other things that
fall into the category of darker black laggers. And it's
it's a it is a really interesting style because right
like it's a little bit more forgiving, or you can
be a little bit more playful perhaps than you can
with the pale logger, which in which case you're usually
going for something very straightforward. And and yeah, yeah, you
(18:55):
can get a little bit funky, a little bit, a
little bit more funky, I think with a with a
Schwartz your type style.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
Love it. I'm going to be on on the lookout.
But also people, people of you listeners, if you have
experience with this, if you're from another country like Japan,
which does seem to have a big blacklogger scene, please
write in.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, or if you've if you've been to any of
these breweries that we mentioned, or yeah, anything, anything at all,
We would love to hear about it. In the meanwhile,
we do already have some listener mail for you, and
we are going to get into that as soon as
we get back from one more quick break forward from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with the listening. Falling Leaves. Yeah, yes, oh
I'm ready.
Speaker 2 (20:04):
You were ready in like April, I.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Know, I know. And I have friends who are like
dread this time because they hate winter. Fall sort of
just negatively associated with winter. Yeah, but I'm like, fall
is my favorite. Yeah, falls favorite. I will admit it's
not long enough in Atlanta, but it is not. It
is not. It's a very short season, but I love
(20:28):
it while it's here. M Joy wrote in your Yuzuo episode,
you ask her stories of experience with fresh yuzoo. I
have one. When I was teaching English and Japan, I
bought a large bag of fresh yu zoo at a
fruit stand in a rural town on the Yazoo Peninsula
for the amazing price of one hundred yen. I would
(20:50):
peel them like oranges and eat them for the vitamin C.
The flavor was basically a packet of pure sour notes.
When my Japanese coworker found found out how I was
eating them, she was amused. She said people use uzu
for zest and to float them in their ofuru, the deep,
narrow Japanese bathtubs used for relaxation rather than washing because
(21:12):
it's too sour to eat fresh. I didn't stop eating once.
I didn't use for yuzub baths anyway. Hey, some people
love that sour taste.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
Oh yeah, I will definitely pluck a lemon wedge out
of my beverage and just like bite down on it
so I get you.
Speaker 1 (21:34):
My niece used to at the time. I couldn't tell
if it was for shock factor. She seemed to actually
enjoy it. She would eat lemon Oh wow, just would
eat eat it? Yeah? So you do you? Yeah, and
I'm glad also you get to use it for relaxing baths.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Yes, lovely, it really does sound so nice. Oh I've
been I've been craving a bath. It's I I feel
like the cleanup of a bath is so much of
a pain that I'm like, why did I just take
a bath? Like now?
Speaker 1 (22:04):
It's stressful?
Speaker 2 (22:05):
About that anyway that I think that tells a lot
about our states of mind, because I'm similar this thing
that's supposed to be relaxing I've now made into a stressor. Yeah. No, oops,
well that sounds terrific, Carly wrote. You put out a
(22:29):
request a while ago for people to write in about
their fermentation projects. I've been making my own yogurt for
about eight years now, and I've gotten really good at
making a consistent match every time. I also got super
into kaffir a couple of years ago, both water kafir
and milk Kafir. When you had your episode on Kaffir,
I was almost shocked when it was not titled key
for Madness, a riff off of reefer Madness, but then
(22:52):
learned from you guys that it was not pronounced that way.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Oops.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
For my milk kaffir, I found it really interesting how
much the room temperature would affect the length of the
fermentation process as well as the fluffy feeling of it.
For me in Arizona, I found that the spring batches
are my favorite, but I'm not too proud to drink
my over fermented cottage cheese like batches that I let
go too long in the summer. For my water caffeir,
(23:20):
I almost always do my second fermentation, either with lemon
or lemonon lime. I've tried other fruits, but I just
love these flavors the best. When I first started making
the water kaffir, there were a few times when I
accidentally over fermented it and got a little buzzed. I've
also made my own olives, and in the winter I
make my own sour crowd as well. Ye mean, all
of that being said, last year, when I was pregnant,
(23:42):
I got pretty bad morning sickness for maybe four months.
That coupled with the new baby shortly thereafter, meant all
my fermentation projects when on hold. The yogurt I was
not concerned with because even though I would need to
start from scratch, I knew that one well enough to
confidently restart it when whenever time permits, hopefully soon. The
milk and water kaffir I had put in my fridge
(24:03):
when I could not think about food, hoping they would last.
When I tried to revive the milk kafir, I made
a few batches, throwing them out to be safe, then
let my kitty try a batch. When he approved, I
thought I was safe, but nope, it tasted like vomit.
I had to let that one go. The water kaffir shockingly,
when I revived that one was perfectly fine and happy.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
What a champ.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And the sour kraut that had been in my fridge
for like a year and a half, shockingly fine and
super tender. Yay Mi g robes. Also, I loved the
prickly pear episode. I rarely see the nopalace in the
grocery stores, but will sometimes get some in my CSA
or forage for them. I learned from a forager that
you should cut the spines off with the knife near
flat against the pad and going up away from the base,
(24:49):
cut the edges off, and thoroughly inspect before consuming. I
liked to put mine in my scrambled eggs, or just
throw them into random dishes. I once had a Nopoles
taco that was divine. It almost had a bit of
a pickle flavor. I've only tried the fruit a couple
of times. I bought a prickly pear and put it
in a pot a couple of years ago so I
could eat some fruit. But most of the years it
(25:09):
just made new pads. But then it started flowering. But
that year the wind also blew it over several times
and decimated it. One time, when I bought some of
the fruit from a grocery store, the young cashier I
think was trying to show off for me and juggled them.
When I got home, I saw a lot of the
little thorns in there, so I know he must have
really regretted his life decision at that point.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
Anyway, I love love.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Your show, and still often referred to it as food stuff.
Keep up the amazing work.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Oh that poor kid, Oh, oh honey bear.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Immediately it was like I was gonna take a quick break.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
I'm gonna go die quietly in the break room.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Oh we've all done it.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
If you're listening, who hasn't injured themselves? While flirting that
truth truth. Oh my gosh, under I understand. Well, this
(26:18):
is amazing. You have so many projects going on. I know.
Oh I love this, I love I love all of this.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
I still don't.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
I haven't even had water kaffir, so I'm really curious
about that. I did like laugh out loud when I
was reading this earlier and I read Reefer Madness that
that's one of my uh not the original, but the
musical making fun of the original is one of my
favorite things. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, that's pretty good. That's an excellent pun. So good company.
And I've got to hear like, it's amazing that you're
things like your sour kraut. Yeah, just lasted, just chilling, amazing.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Literally, yeah, just hanging out. Just no problem.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
You'll you'll and you'll get the rest going again. It'll
be fine.
Speaker 1 (27:04):
Yes, yes, keep us updated. Oh yeah, oh yeah that's updated.
But yes, thank you so much to both of these
listeners for writing in. If you would like to write
to us, you can Our email is hello at savorpod
dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod and we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(27:40):
your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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