January 4, 2024 • 41 mins
This spiced beverage is seasoned with bright fruit and served warm – and, like all of the ingredients, the wine can vary (or be optional). Anney and Lauren dip into the science and history of mulled wine.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lorn vogel Baum, and today we have an
episode for you about mulled wine.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, as always with these drink responsibily. Yeah, yes, I
mean I feel like the answer is obvious. What was
there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lord? Nope?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I mean, yes, holidays. This is a winter and or
holiday drink, and I I don't usually drink a lot
of it because it's like wine plus sugar equals bad
times for me. I don't want to drink too much
of either of those things. And when so when they're together,
(00:52):
I'm like, oh, oh, dear, oh, I feel terrible. But yeah,
I was just looking for it. Was like kind of
like a booze top was sort of next up in
our ever ever increasingly strange complex of topics. And yeah,
it seems seasonal.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I think I've had it
a couple of times in my life. I did try
the you not like this, lad, but I tried the
hot chocolate red wine thing that was really popped up
for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I mean I would probably enjoy a sip of it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh yeah, it's like again kind of with the muld wine.
Also limitations, but it was very good. But I did
have a very bad experience with sangria. Oh it was
my fault. I went overboard drink responsibily, but boy, oh boy,
(01:54):
did it look like someone had died in my bathroom
old friend. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, so, I I do
have I think, a reservedness around it. But I think
it's a good, healthy Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's probably that's probably for the best.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh, I've made it dozens of times. It's definitely been
like a kind of yearly tradition, especially with some of
my uh like Solstice celebrating friends. It's very big in
that circle. Pun intended because they're cheap anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, today is also the Solstice.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, so hey, happy Solstice to those who do celebrate.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I'm in fact going to.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
A Solstice party later. And I had some muld wine
last night, so we're all we're all doing great.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, nice. All right, Well you'll have to report
back about that. Oh yeah, sure, you can see our
wine episodes. Sure, yeah, we did want on and with
sale Bossile.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I think we talked about it in.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh gosh, did it did we all right?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I feel like listeners. You are the bigger you know
more about what we've talked about. I could have sworn
we did it. Maybe we did it.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Unless I'm spelling it wrong. It's not coming up in
my spreadsheet, So.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Mystery. I don't know. There's no way we'll ever know.
There's no way of finding out. No, it's zero percent.
Uh oranges, okay, yeah sure, especially their kind of holiday
connotation relation all of the spices.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Uh, eggnog, Yeah, yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
M hm. Well, I guess that brings us to our question.
I guess so mold wine? What is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Mold wine is an alcoholic beverage made of spices and
often fruit, steeped in warmed wine and served warm. It
can also be further flavored with things like a sweetener
and a liquor. Red wine is the more common base,
but white can be used to The spices are usually
warm and woody things like cinnamons, dar annis, ginger, and cloves.
(04:33):
The fruit is usually oranges, but can be other sweet
tart things like apples or lemons. The liquor is usually
something smooth and woody as well, and like a little
bit sweet, like a cognac or a rum. The sweetener
can be a sugar of whatever kind. Brown sugar kind
of works well, or honey. Every batch is going to
be different and to taste, but you've generally got like
(04:55):
just an overall really warming beverage. You know, you've got
the physical heat, the burn of the alcohol and the
and the different burn like the pungency of the spices,
and then hopefully a balance of sweet and tart and
puckery and bitter and floral and fruity flavors, all kinds
of complex things going on. It's like it's like a
(05:19):
wine tea. It's it's like a warm sangria or a
spice cake and a glass with wine. It's uh, it's
actually a little bit overwhelming taste wise. It's just got
a lot happening, but in a way that feels filling,
like like sensorily filling, rather than overwhelming to me personally anyway.
(05:43):
It's like it's like the moment that you step into
a hot bath, or or when you get in from
the cold and and your fingers and the tip of
your nose have finally started to warm up again. But
but you can drink that moment.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Once again, Lauren, you're a poet. You could have another
life as writing marketing for mold wine. It makes me
want it very badly. I'm freezing right now. Oh no,
oh you are. Yeah, you are very.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You're a little bit less warmly dressed than you were yesterday.
But I assume it's just heck and very cold in
your apartment. Yeah, for listeners, I have radiator. It's fine,
it works.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But this particular room where I record, if it's cold outside,
it is cold in here. If it's hot outside, it
is hot in here. It's just not anyway, I'm very
cold and this sounds lovely.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, get ready to continue being angry because I have
more more delicious sounding things coming up. All right, because
right again, the variations on this one are truly endless
and can be based on traditions or whatever you personally
like or whatever you happen to have around you, know,
like you can put in pear or cranberries or blackberries, currants, mescal, port,
(07:09):
orange liquor, black pepper, cayenne pepper, nutmeg, vanilla, maple syrup.
Oh heck, all of those things sound good. Mess cow Okay. Anyway,
I will say that this isn't the best time to
bust out like your most expensive wine bottles, because any
subtlety that a wine has is gonna be lost, and
(07:30):
not like lost like your keys, like like when your
socks go to another dimension like gone.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All right, So free.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Buck chuck is fine, or boxed wine or you know whatever. Again,
tastes do vary, but I would generally recommend starting with
something dry, like a cab salve or a you know, verde,
or like a dry reasling. Interestingly, some of the flavor
compounds in the common ingredients in mold wine do mirror
the scent and or flavor compounds in pine trees, you know,
(08:00):
like Christmas trees and garlands, which I love, by the way,
and I haven't gotten for a few years because I've
been too lazy to go out and get. Need to
rectify that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh my tree, Lauren, so many Star Wars ornaments believe
she probably would.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I would actually believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, but yeah. Compounds like lemonine from the wine and
the citrus are both present in pine needles, and sap
or alpha terpinol in wine and clothes are similar to
the pining in pine tannins happen in wine and also
in bark and wood. These these spices are also often
(08:44):
used in holiday dishes, of course, from like clothes studded
hams to gingerbread. So it all just goes well together.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And all right, a little bit more science. So, mold
wine works because you are increasing the solubility of all
of these flavor compounds in your ad ins by heating
them up in a solution that contains water and alcohol
and acids, which are three of the primary things that
stuff is soluble in. So you've kind of got your
(09:14):
dealer's choice of whatever it wants to be soluble in.
And yeah, heating helps because heat is a form of
energy that helps break the bonds that are holding molecules
together in solid objects like a slice of orange or
a cinnamon stick. However, heating can also evaporate some of
the stuff that you want in your solution, mostly the alcohol,
(09:37):
but also some of those flavor compounds as well. So
you might want to bring your mold wine to a
simmer just to get it started, but then lower it
to the point that it's steaming or just below steaming
even and keep it mostly covered so that any vapors
condense on the lid and then fall back into the solution.
Like remember that alcohol vaporizes at just one hundred and
(09:58):
seventy three degrees fahrenheit or seventy gates celsius, so well
well below a boil. The longer that you let your
add in steep, the more flavor they will lend to
mold wine. So if you like it strongly flavored, do
it kind of low and slow, not too too long,
or some of those flavors will start to break down
and taste weird or muddy, and some of those flavor
(10:23):
compounds are going to make it into the air no
matter what you do, which is actually terrific because a
lot of our flavor receptors are in our nose, not
our mouth, which is part of what makes the experience
of mold wine so pleasant. It's also why hot food
can feel more satisfying than cold food. Like, no matter
how much you enjoy a spot show, and I mean
(10:45):
we all do right, right right, like a like a
good marinara sauce smells so much more strongly and just
hits differently. Yeah, I did read some recipes where you
cold infuse your muld wine for like a full twenty
four hours in the fridge and then heat it gently
(11:06):
prior to serving. So I haven't tried that form. I'm
interested in it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Interesting. So do you have a go to recipes?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Laurn? Oh, I just throw on whatever I want, Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So that's whatever you're feeling at that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, some some cinnamon sticks, some clothes, I
don't know, some oranges and lemons maybe, yeah, Like like
whatever box of wine I have around, If I have
some whiskey or rum or like a fruit brandy sometimes
(11:42):
on my on my bar, then that I might put
some of that in there. I don't know, you know, Yeah, yeah,
I like that whatever whatever you're going on. Yeah, And
if you don't drink for whatever reason, and there are
many good reasons, you can totally make non alcoholic mold wine.
You know. Your base can be anything that gives you
(12:02):
some of that like sweet tart drying combo that that
wine has. I think, like tart juices like pomegranate, grape,
cranberry or apple cider, or maybe some black tea or
hibiscus tea, or like a like a non alcoholic wine
or cider maybe with an extra kick from fresh orange
or lemon juice. If you don't mind spicy hot flavors,
(12:24):
A little something that brings that in will will help
replicate the burn of alcohol. If that's something that you want.
The afore mentioned black pepper or cayenne red pepper flakes,
maybe some dried chilies. Yeah, I am Hibiscus and dried
chilies are two things that I intensely want to try
in a mold wine right now.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Oh my gosh, I have so many dried chilies on hand. Yeah.
We talked about with rose water. I recently made brea
and it made a stunning help listeners. But the dried
chili's I needed. I only needed like two to four
of each of them, but they all came this huge path.
(13:07):
So once again, if you have any recipes to use
dry chilies, very happy to have them. And maybe this
is something I could.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Look at to Oh there you go.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, yeah, yes, Well what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Drink responsibly? Yeah, alcohol is a treat. Treats are nice.
I will say that scientific studies have shown that mulling
wine with spices increases the phenol content and antioxidant properties
of that wine. There has been scientific research into this.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I did find sometimes in these outlines, I'll find a
resource that I'll just put in and I'm like, Lauren
can deal with this. But I did find one that
was very science heavy and it was about like all
of the things mold wine is doing. Geez. Yeah. But
(14:04):
my point being, yes, people have uh looked into it,
but that being said, they haven't. Really It's hard to
put down numbers for mold wine.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I mean, you know, to be honest, I didn't
look too hard because I felt like that's not really
the focus of something like this. You're not gonna I
mean like like you could hype I could hypothetically have
dug into like because there are totally brands that put
out like mold wine, like like pre mixed mould wine
seasoning packets or I don't know, like like the the
(14:36):
the ranking of mold wine on you know, like one
hundred top Cocktails in the World lists.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Or something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
But yeah, it's something that people make at home.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yes, you can get it. I did see it recently
at one of our holiday pop up bars here and
at Last absolutely, but in my experience that is when
I encounter it or when someone makes it. So yes,
h but it has experienced an ebb and flow of popularity.
(15:07):
Oh yeah, I say, yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We are going to get into that history as soon
as we get back from a quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And again see our episodes on wine for more context.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Information and all the spices yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh yes, the story of mold wine is a bit murky,
or at least specific details are because a lot of
people pointed out, like you can kind of speculate based
on what was around and what people were doing, what
was happening, but we don't have the like hard evidence.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those things
that it's like, do you have wine, do you have spices?
Do you have a heat source? Rightbably going to put
those together at some point.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, yes. But by some accounts, it was first consumed
in ancient Greece as a way to use up a
great harvest that was otherwise like not good, gonna go
to waste, and to improve the taste of lower quality
wine made from this harvest, they would add a bunch
of spices and heat it up. The Greeks may have
(16:24):
called this spiced wine hippocrass after Hippocrates. We'll talk about
that a bit more in a second, okay. But other
people say the ancient Romans did it first, and or
it was kind of happened concurrently, because they had a
similar take called candietum paradoxum, which was wine warmed with
honey and pepper. As early as the second century CE,
(16:46):
they would warm and spice wine as a way to
ward off the cold of winter, and because of the
preservative properties of honey, it was recommended to travelers. The
practice spread and was adopted throughout their empire. One source
that I found claimed that condeit and paradoxom was integrated
into ancient rooms suturnally a festival, a celebration of the
(17:10):
winter sol to the winter solstice, which is today as
we record, the shortest day of the year, and the
rebirth of the sun. I only found that one place,
but interesting. Epicius's fifth slash sixth century cookbook featured a
recipe for wine and honey boiled down and reduced with
fresh wine, pepper, dates, saffron, and bay leaves. So that
(17:34):
sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Leaves, bay leaves, I know, right, Okay? Ideas cool?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
However, most sources that I found claimed that mould wine
really rose in popularity in the Middle Ages in Europe
in part because people thought that the spices added health
benefits and made the wine more tasty. Sometimes they'd add herbs,
natural sweeteners, and flowers as well. At this point in history,
(18:06):
water was still a bit dicey to drink, and the
wine selection could be pretty slim, maybe not the best
quality of wine. And there were fears of the plague
of black deff and people were really worried about their health,
so they turned for all of these reasons to mold wine.
(18:28):
According to Merriam Webster, the verb mole, meaning to heat,
sweeten and flavor as wine or citer with spices, was
first recorded in sixteen eighteen, but before the word had
been coined, there were earlier records and recipes that indicate
people were making it before then, including this recipe from
fifteen ninety six. Is the good housewife take a gallon
(18:52):
of white wine, sugar, two pounds of cinnamon, ginger, long pepper,
mace not bruised, galangol, and clove not bruised. You must
bruise every kind of spice a little and put them
in an earthen pot all day and then cast them
through your bags two times or more as you see calls.
And so drink it as you see calls. I love
(19:19):
reading these recipes. They feel like I'm making a potion,
and I know it's just a difference, but yeah, I
love it. I love it. You must bruise them some
but not too much.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And so drink it.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, and so drink it over time. Despite these amazing,
in my opinion, recipes, the popularity of mold wine did
diminish across Europe, except for in Sweden, where the love
for it only seemed to grow. Two varieties in particular
were Swedish specialties clarets, which, from what I understand not
(20:00):
what I would assume clarent to be It was a
mix of ren wine with spices that was sweetened with
sugar and honey and luten drunk. I hope I'm not
butchering that I couldn't find the pronunciation wine mixed with
milk and spices. So these were really popular, and the
monarchy in in particular was fond of these mulled wines
(20:22):
and popularized them for centuries. And these varieties went on
to inspire other varieties, and recipe books started including them
under a wide category called look Good Look, a term
that started popping up as early as sixteen oh nine.
Several hundred years later, a new variety called Cognac's Look
(20:45):
emerged and became a favorite. All right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Meanwhile, another version of gluevine developed in Germanic Europe. The
first known written recipe is from All the Way in
eighteen thirty four, but it is certainly around longer than that.
There is, for example, a gold plated tankard that this
one nobleman like the first guy to grow riasling grapes,
apparently used to drink mold wine, dating from fourteen twenty.
(21:13):
So yeah, i'd say today like outdoor Christmas markets with
arts and crafts and other gifts are a popular thing
in Germany, and both glue fine and in a non
alcoholic version called kinder punch are commonly available. I love
that kid's punch.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, yes, yeah, Well, the association that many of us
have with mold wine and the holidays, and not just
as something to warm you up in the cold, because
a lot of these holidays do take place for many
of us in the cold, stems from traditions of drinking
it to celebrate during Victorian England, although some things I
(21:53):
read argue it goes back much further, possibly all the
way back to Saturn Alien but this seems to be
when it really took hold.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah, a little bit of both. And also the
eighteen hundreds was kind of when Germany was going through
a big wave of revival of old traditional stuff like this,
and it kind of became like like repopular through England
because the English monarchy had had close relations to Germany
(22:24):
at that time. So yeah, fun times. That's also where
we get Christmas trees from. Basically, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
They could never envision Christmas tree decked with star wars
and ornaments. But yeah, well, also Charles Dickens mentioned mould
wine in a Christmas Carol in eighteen forty three.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, at the end, when Scrooge has had his change
of heart, he offers Bob Cratchett the chance to talk
more about like workplace improvementsote over a Christmas bowl of
smoking Bishop, which, if you're unfamiliar, is a mix of
red wine and port steeped with roasted lemon and clothes. Again,
(23:11):
historical sources coming through roasted lemon. I've had lemon in
mulled wine, but roasting at first is such a good idea.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That is a good idea. Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Also one more historical note here, because I just did
a brain stuff episode about all of this. I mean
and or I know a lot about a Christmas Carol.
It's really impossible to overstate the influence that a Christmas
Carol has had on our modern American slash English concept
of Christmas. Like it is a very very very strong influence,
(23:48):
partially because Dickens was just a heck and rock star
in his time, and partially because right like because of that,
this literary work has stayed with us and men reiterated
so many different times. I will say that I'm a
little bit tired of straightforward productions of a Christmas Carol,
(24:09):
Like I've just seen it too many times and I
don't care anymore. But local menshes Dad's Garage, which is
an improving comedy company here in Atlanta. They do a
thing called Invasion Christmas Carol every year. If y'all are
in the Atlanta area, go check it out. They have Okay,
I'm sorry, this is along, This is along aside. What
(24:32):
they have is a cast that learns the text of
the play a Christmas Carol, and then every night they
have a different improver invader come in and that can
be That can be anything from like a robot from
the future to like ted Lasso to like the one
(24:55):
time I've been so far. This year they had David
from Shit's Creek come on. It was Yeah, it's always
absolutely delightful because it just throws the entire thing into chaos,
delightful chaos while they're still trying to work out the
basics of the plot.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So I love it. I love it. Okay, Yeah, I definitely.
I would love to check that out. My I love
I feel like I've been singing this song my whole life.
But now everybody's on board the Muppet Christmas Carol.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Oh yeah, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Michael Caine plays it so seriously, every their Muppets. Yeah,
it's so good and I feel like this year everybody's
like the Mumpet Christmas Carols.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, it's vindicated they Yeah, it's become another another like
holiday movie meme kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
In the comparison between Michael Caine treating all the Muppets
like serious actors versus Tim Curry and Muppet Treasure Island
treating himself as a Muppet. Yes, both terrific performances.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, yes, at any rate, At any rate, that was
a very long dickens aside.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Sorry, it did have a big impact. So I have
a lot of friends that it scarred when they watched
these kids. It's kind of a.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Scary it is. There's four ghosts. Man Marley is hecking creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
But anyway, okay, okay, so yes, we've got this holiday
association happening. Yeah. By the eighteen nineties, mold wine was
very firmly established as a holiday at tradition in much
of Europe. Wine merchants would whip up their own recipes
and some even from what I read, most would put
(26:47):
something like Santa Claus on the labels, just very clearly
indicate yes, it's kind of a holiday thing. And soon
the holiday mold wine spread across the world and it
became global tradition, bigger in some places than others, and
all kinds of varieties were created using all kinds of
alcohols and ingredients. I found kind of an interesting chart
(27:11):
of where certain ones got really popular. Yeah. Interestingly, during
the nineteenth and twentieth centuries Australian cookbooks, they were much
more likely to use it as a curative as opposed
to like a holiday thing, so they would include recipes
(27:32):
for mold wine that were meant for healing someone who
might be sick or helping someone who might be sick,
which a lot of cookbooks just a Reminder did have
a section like that.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I was like, sure, yeah, yeah, I mean that was
definitely the start of what cookbooks were so right.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
But yeah, I mean, I feel like it's got a
steady place now. Maybe it's not like a huge thing,
but it's not forgotten either.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah. Yeah, it is definitely right. Like if a bar
is going to put together a holiday cocktail menu, I
feel like it's increasingly likely to see like a mold
wine alongside a hot toddy or something like that.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I agree, I agree, And I think like that hot
chocolate wine thing I mentioned at the top, that that
went viral on TikTok, like that's kind of verging into
I feel like people have an interest in drinking wine
that is warm in one way or another. Maybe I'm wrong,
(28:35):
but I don't know. I feel like it's it is nice,
it's a nice treat when you can have it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, but that's what we have to say about muld
Wine from now.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
It is. If you have any traditions or recipes or memories,
we would love to hear them. But in the meanwhile,
we do have some listeners mail for you.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
We do, but first we have one more quick break
for word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listen.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm always so impressed with how you're able to do
this without being able to hear me, Lauren. Every time
we hear the like episodes before we release them, I'm like, Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I've I've learned I will A your your hand gestures
really really help, and and B I've learned how to
how to pitch my my my loudness so that it's
not so that I can hear most of it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh nice, Yeah, I'm learning skills skills.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Also, I I genuinely believe that super producer Andrew gives
me a little bit of a boost, just just pitches
me a little bit closer to whatever you're doing.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah. Wow, he is amazing. But we must triloge. Okay,
So I wrote the Vegas stuff was fun. I've been
once back in twenty fourteen and would like to go again,
just to try some different food options. The amount of
choices in smaller in a smaller area makes it interesting
(30:31):
how to choose, roll the dice and see what comes up.
I've zeles, Oh how I love them. My favorite are
Annis and Lemon, although all of them are good. Now
I have to see if my parents have the Pazzelli
iron we had when I was growing up. As Lauren mentioned,
the opinions on the irons are interesting. Russian, Polish and
(30:55):
Slavic heritage on my mom's side, my mom and grandma
made great ones. Pittsburgh definitely has a number of good
places around here that make them. A winter day snow
on the ground, a hot cup of tea, a couple
of pazzilla and a book. What a way to relax.
What would you like to know about the cookie table?
(31:17):
It is definitely an extremely common thing around Pittsburgh, especially
if both parties are from the area. The deeper the ties,
the bigger the table. It seems my wife and I
did not have one years ago, as we had a
more informal reception that really did not have space For one,
my cousin had a pretty good sized table at her wedding.
(31:38):
I think there were twelve different types, and probably six
to eight dozen of me also had small boxes so
you could take them home. That is something else that
is pretty common with them. Make a lot and have
take home boxes. Some families will go into baking mode
the week before and bake everything. And there are bakeries
(32:00):
specialize in cookie tables. Not sure if my oldest is
going to have one. I stay away from the planning
to be on the safe side. Oh yeah, I love this,
and several of you have written about the cookie tables,
so we have more of those coming out.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Excellent, so good.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's amazing. I this is so new to me, but
reading this message, I did remember. I had a friend's
a really close friend when I was growing up, who
was her relatives were from New York, Okay, and she
would do this huge baking week like before Christmas, and
(32:43):
one year I volunteered to help, and it was foolish.
It was so intense. They made so many cookies and
I just was exhausted at the end of it. And
then every year after that I found a reason to
be busy. But it was like they made so many
cookies and like the numbers you're saying, I do think
(33:03):
the take home boxes is a really cool idea.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Like yeah, yeah, well, from what I was reading about
cookie tables, okay, to answer your question, what we want
to know about cookie tables is literally everything. But from
what I was reading, yeah, there are like also capital
o opinions about like all right, like how many different
varieties of cookies it's appropriate to have, whether you like,
(33:26):
reveal the table before dinner or only after, whether if
the table is there during dinner, is it appropriate to
go get cookies before dessert? How many cookies of each
kind is it appropriate to take before everyone's kind of
had a chance to do you have boxes or not?
(33:50):
There's there, right, Like from what I understand, there are
strong opinions, and from what I read, yeah, like at
least six dozen of each type of cookie is reckoned
ended whoa.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
My goodness me, I honestly like I was exhausted after
helping my friend. Yes, I was covered in flower my
hands hurt.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I love I love the idea
of giving out boxes of cookies around the holidays, but
I certainly am not motivated enough to do that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I do. I do. I have friends.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I have a number of groups of friends who have
a tradition of like doing like a like a cookie party,
like a cookie spot party, so that you all wind
up with a box of holiday cookies, but you're only
making one kind, like maybe two if you're ambitious.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, that sounds very nice. I did go through a
period where I was making a lot of cookies for
my mom's church. But I liked it because it was
that when I was really into baking. So it was
a fun way to experiment. And then like, I don't
need twenty four cookies, no, as one person, and so
I would make all these cookies. But then I started
(35:11):
getting requests and it got out of control. Oh yeah,
so I stopped. But I love this. I can't wait
to share the other messages we've got. Also, yes, if
you find this Pizzelli iron, please write in. And indeed,
Vegas is a every time you go to a city
that you haven't been to before, maybe even you have,
(35:34):
and they just have a million food choices, the choices.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It's definitely it's hard. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's hard work, typicult hard work.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Nicole wrote, I was so excited to
see a pizzell episode of my feed. I had just
finished making pizzelli's for the holidays. It isn't Christmas until
at least one house smells like Annas. To throw another
contender into the pronunciation ring, my family says it pitzel
(36:05):
at the soft tea like pizza. We've definitely americanized a
lot of the Italian words for things, including our last name.
I'm originally from Pittsburgh, and considering the lukewarm reception I've
gotten over my cookies in Columbus the past couple of years,
they might be more popular in the Cleveland Youngstown part
of Ohio. My dad's side is the Italian side of
the family, and there were some great stories when we
(36:27):
met up with his extended family this past summer. It's
so big that you need a family tree just to
know who's related to who. My dad's one cousin told
the story about how one of his aunts asked his
future wife, who was not Italian, how she made her pizzelles.
She asked, what's a pizzelle and the aunt said, We've
got a lot of work to do with this one.
(36:49):
When they got married, they were gifted a custom pizzele
iron with their family crest in it. Those ladies were
the cookie Brigade, and my grandma was folded into that
when she married my grandma father. We used to make
dozens upon dozens of cookies for holidays and special events,
just for my dad's immediate family. I tried to eat
my weight in cookies every holiday when I was a child.
(37:11):
We don't make quite as money now, but I make
sure to have my favorites. Sometimes there are still opportunities
for cookie tables, but I feel like all the diet
crazes have killed that in my family. At least. I've
attached a picture of the last big cookie table I saw,
which was my cousin's wedding on my mom's side, from
almost a decade ago. We made a couple dozen Ladylocks
and my competitive mother was ecstatic that our cookies were
(37:33):
so popular that we didn't have any leftovers we had
to take home.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Oh, the picture is spectacular, listeners, it is like a
full table yes of cookies. Also, I have to say
I really relate to your last statement because my mom
my mom does this. She's like, I'm tired of having
(37:58):
leftovers and then whenever everyone eats everything, then she's like,
we didn't have enough leftover, so she makes more and
I'm like, no, we're trapped in a cycle. It means
that you made enough and people liked it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
We don't have to make more.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
But it's just funny. I feel like a lot of times,
I bet a lot of listeners can relate to that
or another. But yeah, I love that you have a
pizzelle with family crest.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, family, yes, yes, oh yeah, the Irons yeah, and
and oh man, I think okay, So I I'm pretty
sure that we've been saying it a little bit wrong
this whole time, because the zip, the the that that
double z in Italian really should be like a like
a soft tea like pizza, so pizzel or pizzelle would
(38:58):
be the more correct pronuncia. So I just further americanized
and an already Americanized thing.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So my bad, sorry about that. I one of my
favorite line reads of all time, speaking of the holidays, Pizza,
Tim Curry, I'm alone too, pizza. He says it like
he's never heard it before. It's beautiful if you've.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Seen it, Yeah, Tim, Tim Curry's accent is so.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Unique.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I don't say unique about many things because most things
are not. Heck and unique, that's that's not what they are.
But I where is he from? Nobody knows that accent
is from a little bit of everywhere. It's and it's beautiful.
It's a beautiful voice. So good, Yes, big fan, big fan, good.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yes, yes, And I also love that both of these
listeners are kind of from Pittsburgh area, have a relation
to Pittsburgh and they wrote about this. Yeah, those localities,
those like very specific things.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and I will tell you that
a yes, yes, totally. The culture in Columbus, Ohio is
extremely different from the culture in the Tri state area.
My grandparents, my mom's parents are from Youngstown area, and
so yes, I can tell you that those are very
different things.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yes, and we love hearing about those different things.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Oh yeah, oh yeah yes.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
So thank you to both of these listeners writing in.
If you would like to write to us, we would
love to hear from you. You can email us at
hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
And I'm Lorn vogel Baum, and today we have an
episode for you about mulled wine.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, as always with these drink responsibily. Yeah, yes, I
mean I feel like the answer is obvious. What was
there any particular reason this was on your mind? Lord? Nope?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I mean, yes, holidays. This is a winter and or
holiday drink, and I I don't usually drink a lot
of it because it's like wine plus sugar equals bad
times for me. I don't want to drink too much
of either of those things. And when so when they're together,
(00:52):
I'm like, oh, oh, dear, oh, I feel terrible. But yeah,
I was just looking for it. Was like kind of
like a booze top was sort of next up in
our ever ever increasingly strange complex of topics. And yeah,
it seems seasonal.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I think I've had it
a couple of times in my life. I did try
the you not like this, lad, but I tried the
hot chocolate red wine thing that was really popped up
for a while.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
I mean I would probably enjoy a sip of it.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Oh yeah, it's like again kind of with the muld wine.
Also limitations, but it was very good. But I did
have a very bad experience with sangria. Oh it was
my fault. I went overboard drink responsibily, but boy, oh boy,
(01:54):
did it look like someone had died in my bathroom
old friend. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, so, I I do
have I think, a reservedness around it. But I think
it's a good, healthy Yeah, that's good.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
That's probably that's probably for the best.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Oh, I've made it dozens of times. It's definitely been
like a kind of yearly tradition, especially with some of
my uh like Solstice celebrating friends. It's very big in
that circle. Pun intended because they're cheap anyway.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, today is also the Solstice.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Yeah, so hey, happy Solstice to those who do celebrate.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I'm in fact going to.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
A Solstice party later. And I had some muld wine
last night, so we're all we're all doing great.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Yeah, yeah, nice. All right, Well you'll have to report
back about that. Oh yeah, sure, you can see our
wine episodes. Sure, yeah, we did want on and with
sale Bossile.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
I think we talked about it in.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Oh gosh, did it did we all right?
Speaker 2 (03:11):
I believe you.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
I feel like listeners. You are the bigger you know
more about what we've talked about. I could have sworn
we did it. Maybe we did it.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Unless I'm spelling it wrong. It's not coming up in
my spreadsheet, So.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Mystery. I don't know. There's no way we'll ever know.
There's no way of finding out. No, it's zero percent.
Uh oranges, okay, yeah sure, especially their kind of holiday
connotation relation all of the spices.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Uh, eggnog, Yeah, yeah, sure sure.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
M hm. Well, I guess that brings us to our question.
I guess so mold wine? What is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (04:11):
Mold wine is an alcoholic beverage made of spices and
often fruit, steeped in warmed wine and served warm. It
can also be further flavored with things like a sweetener
and a liquor. Red wine is the more common base,
but white can be used to The spices are usually
warm and woody things like cinnamons, dar annis, ginger, and cloves.
(04:33):
The fruit is usually oranges, but can be other sweet
tart things like apples or lemons. The liquor is usually
something smooth and woody as well, and like a little
bit sweet, like a cognac or a rum. The sweetener
can be a sugar of whatever kind. Brown sugar kind
of works well, or honey. Every batch is going to
be different and to taste, but you've generally got like
(04:55):
just an overall really warming beverage. You know, you've got
the physical heat, the burn of the alcohol and the
and the different burn like the pungency of the spices,
and then hopefully a balance of sweet and tart and
puckery and bitter and floral and fruity flavors, all kinds
of complex things going on. It's like it's like a
(05:19):
wine tea. It's it's like a warm sangria or a
spice cake and a glass with wine. It's uh, it's
actually a little bit overwhelming taste wise. It's just got
a lot happening, but in a way that feels filling,
like like sensorily filling, rather than overwhelming to me personally anyway.
(05:43):
It's like it's like the moment that you step into
a hot bath, or or when you get in from
the cold and and your fingers and the tip of
your nose have finally started to warm up again. But
but you can drink that moment.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Once again, Lauren, you're a poet. You could have another
life as writing marketing for mold wine. It makes me
want it very badly. I'm freezing right now. Oh no,
oh you are. Yeah, you are very.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
You're a little bit less warmly dressed than you were yesterday.
But I assume it's just heck and very cold in
your apartment. Yeah, for listeners, I have radiator. It's fine,
it works.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
But this particular room where I record, if it's cold outside,
it is cold in here. If it's hot outside, it
is hot in here. It's just not anyway, I'm very
cold and this sounds lovely.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Well, get ready to continue being angry because I have
more more delicious sounding things coming up. All right, because
right again, the variations on this one are truly endless
and can be based on traditions or whatever you personally
like or whatever you happen to have around you, know,
like you can put in pear or cranberries or blackberries, currants, mescal, port,
(07:09):
orange liquor, black pepper, cayenne pepper, nutmeg, vanilla, maple syrup.
Oh heck, all of those things sound good. Mess cow Okay. Anyway,
I will say that this isn't the best time to
bust out like your most expensive wine bottles, because any
subtlety that a wine has is gonna be lost, and
(07:30):
not like lost like your keys, like like when your
socks go to another dimension like gone.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
All right, So free.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Buck chuck is fine, or boxed wine or you know whatever. Again,
tastes do vary, but I would generally recommend starting with
something dry, like a cab salve or a you know, verde,
or like a dry reasling. Interestingly, some of the flavor
compounds in the common ingredients in mold wine do mirror
the scent and or flavor compounds in pine trees, you know,
(08:00):
like Christmas trees and garlands, which I love, by the way,
and I haven't gotten for a few years because I've
been too lazy to go out and get. Need to
rectify that.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
Oh my tree, Lauren, so many Star Wars ornaments believe
she probably would.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I would actually believe that.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
Yeah, I think it's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, but yeah. Compounds like lemonine from the wine and
the citrus are both present in pine needles, and sap
or alpha terpinol in wine and clothes are similar to
the pining in pine tannins happen in wine and also
in bark and wood. These these spices are also often
(08:44):
used in holiday dishes, of course, from like clothes studded
hams to gingerbread. So it all just goes well together.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Mmmmm.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
And all right, a little bit more science. So, mold
wine works because you are increasing the solubility of all
of these flavor compounds in your ad ins by heating
them up in a solution that contains water and alcohol
and acids, which are three of the primary things that
stuff is soluble in. So you've kind of got your
(09:14):
dealer's choice of whatever it wants to be soluble in.
And yeah, heating helps because heat is a form of
energy that helps break the bonds that are holding molecules
together in solid objects like a slice of orange or
a cinnamon stick. However, heating can also evaporate some of
the stuff that you want in your solution, mostly the alcohol,
(09:37):
but also some of those flavor compounds as well. So
you might want to bring your mold wine to a
simmer just to get it started, but then lower it
to the point that it's steaming or just below steaming
even and keep it mostly covered so that any vapors
condense on the lid and then fall back into the solution.
Like remember that alcohol vaporizes at just one hundred and
(09:58):
seventy three degrees fahrenheit or seventy gates celsius, so well
well below a boil. The longer that you let your
add in steep, the more flavor they will lend to
mold wine. So if you like it strongly flavored, do
it kind of low and slow, not too too long,
or some of those flavors will start to break down
and taste weird or muddy, and some of those flavor
(10:23):
compounds are going to make it into the air no
matter what you do, which is actually terrific because a
lot of our flavor receptors are in our nose, not
our mouth, which is part of what makes the experience
of mold wine so pleasant. It's also why hot food
can feel more satisfying than cold food. Like, no matter
how much you enjoy a spot show, and I mean
(10:45):
we all do right, right right, like a like a
good marinara sauce smells so much more strongly and just
hits differently. Yeah, I did read some recipes where you
cold infuse your muld wine for like a full twenty
four hours in the fridge and then heat it gently
(11:06):
prior to serving. So I haven't tried that form. I'm
interested in it.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
Interesting. So do you have a go to recipes?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Laurn? Oh, I just throw on whatever I want, Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So that's whatever you're feeling at that moment.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, some some cinnamon sticks, some clothes, I
don't know, some oranges and lemons maybe, yeah, Like like
whatever box of wine I have around, If I have
some whiskey or rum or like a fruit brandy sometimes
(11:42):
on my on my bar, then that I might put
some of that in there. I don't know, you know, Yeah, yeah,
I like that whatever whatever you're going on. Yeah, And
if you don't drink for whatever reason, and there are
many good reasons, you can totally make non alcoholic mold wine.
You know. Your base can be anything that gives you
(12:02):
some of that like sweet tart drying combo that that
wine has. I think, like tart juices like pomegranate, grape,
cranberry or apple cider, or maybe some black tea or
hibiscus tea, or like a like a non alcoholic wine
or cider maybe with an extra kick from fresh orange
or lemon juice. If you don't mind spicy hot flavors,
(12:24):
A little something that brings that in will will help
replicate the burn of alcohol. If that's something that you want.
The afore mentioned black pepper or cayenne red pepper flakes,
maybe some dried chilies. Yeah, I am Hibiscus and dried
chilies are two things that I intensely want to try
in a mold wine right now.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Oh my gosh, I have so many dried chilies on hand. Yeah.
We talked about with rose water. I recently made brea
and it made a stunning help listeners. But the dried
chili's I needed. I only needed like two to four
of each of them, but they all came this huge path.
(13:07):
So once again, if you have any recipes to use
dry chilies, very happy to have them. And maybe this
is something I could.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Look at to Oh there you go.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
Yeah, yeah, yes, Well what about the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Drink responsibly? Yeah, alcohol is a treat. Treats are nice.
I will say that scientific studies have shown that mulling
wine with spices increases the phenol content and antioxidant properties
of that wine. There has been scientific research into this.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
I did find sometimes in these outlines, I'll find a
resource that I'll just put in and I'm like, Lauren
can deal with this. But I did find one that
was very science heavy and it was about like all
of the things mold wine is doing. Geez. Yeah. But
(14:04):
my point being, yes, people have uh looked into it,
but that being said, they haven't. Really It's hard to
put down numbers for mold wine.
Speaker 2 (14:14):
Yeah, I mean, you know, to be honest, I didn't
look too hard because I felt like that's not really
the focus of something like this. You're not gonna I
mean like like you could hype I could hypothetically have
dug into like because there are totally brands that put
out like mold wine, like like pre mixed mould wine
seasoning packets or I don't know, like like the the
(14:36):
the ranking of mold wine on you know, like one
hundred top Cocktails in the World lists.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Or something like that.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
But yeah, it's something that people make at home.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Yes, you can get it. I did see it recently
at one of our holiday pop up bars here and
at Last absolutely, but in my experience that is when
I encounter it or when someone makes it. So yes,
h but it has experienced an ebb and flow of popularity.
(15:07):
Oh yeah, I say, yeah yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We are going to get into that history as soon
as we get back from a quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And again see our episodes on wine for more context.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
Information and all the spices yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
Oh yes, the story of mold wine is a bit murky,
or at least specific details are because a lot of
people pointed out, like you can kind of speculate based
on what was around and what people were doing, what
was happening, but we don't have the like hard evidence.
Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yeah yeah, I mean it's definitely one of those things
that it's like, do you have wine, do you have spices?
Do you have a heat source? Rightbably going to put
those together at some point.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Right, yes. But by some accounts, it was first consumed
in ancient Greece as a way to use up a
great harvest that was otherwise like not good, gonna go
to waste, and to improve the taste of lower quality
wine made from this harvest, they would add a bunch
of spices and heat it up. The Greeks may have
(16:24):
called this spiced wine hippocrass after Hippocrates. We'll talk about
that a bit more in a second, okay. But other
people say the ancient Romans did it first, and or
it was kind of happened concurrently, because they had a
similar take called candietum paradoxum, which was wine warmed with
honey and pepper. As early as the second century CE,
(16:46):
they would warm and spice wine as a way to
ward off the cold of winter, and because of the
preservative properties of honey, it was recommended to travelers. The
practice spread and was adopted throughout their empire. One source
that I found claimed that condeit and paradoxom was integrated
into ancient rooms suturnally a festival, a celebration of the
(17:10):
winter sol to the winter solstice, which is today as
we record, the shortest day of the year, and the
rebirth of the sun. I only found that one place,
but interesting. Epicius's fifth slash sixth century cookbook featured a
recipe for wine and honey boiled down and reduced with
fresh wine, pepper, dates, saffron, and bay leaves. So that
(17:34):
sounds pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Leaves, bay leaves, I know, right, Okay? Ideas cool?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
Yeah, ideas.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Yes, yeah, yes.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
However, most sources that I found claimed that mould wine
really rose in popularity in the Middle Ages in Europe
in part because people thought that the spices added health
benefits and made the wine more tasty. Sometimes they'd add herbs,
natural sweeteners, and flowers as well. At this point in history,
(18:06):
water was still a bit dicey to drink, and the
wine selection could be pretty slim, maybe not the best
quality of wine. And there were fears of the plague
of black deff and people were really worried about their health,
so they turned for all of these reasons to mold wine.
(18:28):
According to Merriam Webster, the verb mole, meaning to heat,
sweeten and flavor as wine or citer with spices, was
first recorded in sixteen eighteen, but before the word had
been coined, there were earlier records and recipes that indicate
people were making it before then, including this recipe from
fifteen ninety six. Is the good housewife take a gallon
(18:52):
of white wine, sugar, two pounds of cinnamon, ginger, long pepper,
mace not bruised, galangol, and clove not bruised. You must
bruise every kind of spice a little and put them
in an earthen pot all day and then cast them
through your bags two times or more as you see calls.
And so drink it as you see calls. I love
(19:19):
reading these recipes. They feel like I'm making a potion,
and I know it's just a difference, but yeah, I
love it. I love it. You must bruise them some
but not too much.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And so drink it.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, and so drink it over time. Despite these amazing,
in my opinion, recipes, the popularity of mold wine did
diminish across Europe, except for in Sweden, where the love
for it only seemed to grow. Two varieties in particular
were Swedish specialties clarets, which, from what I understand not
(20:00):
what I would assume clarent to be It was a
mix of ren wine with spices that was sweetened with
sugar and honey and luten drunk. I hope I'm not
butchering that I couldn't find the pronunciation wine mixed with
milk and spices. So these were really popular, and the
monarchy in in particular was fond of these mulled wines
(20:22):
and popularized them for centuries. And these varieties went on
to inspire other varieties, and recipe books started including them
under a wide category called look Good Look, a term
that started popping up as early as sixteen oh nine.
Several hundred years later, a new variety called Cognac's Look
(20:45):
emerged and became a favorite. All right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
Meanwhile, another version of gluevine developed in Germanic Europe. The
first known written recipe is from All the Way in
eighteen thirty four, but it is certainly around longer than that.
There is, for example, a gold plated tankard that this
one nobleman like the first guy to grow riasling grapes,
apparently used to drink mold wine, dating from fourteen twenty.
(21:13):
So yeah, i'd say today like outdoor Christmas markets with
arts and crafts and other gifts are a popular thing
in Germany, and both glue fine and in a non
alcoholic version called kinder punch are commonly available. I love
that kid's punch.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Yeah, yes, yeah, Well, the association that many of us
have with mold wine and the holidays, and not just
as something to warm you up in the cold, because
a lot of these holidays do take place for many
of us in the cold, stems from traditions of drinking
it to celebrate during Victorian England, although some things I
(21:53):
read argue it goes back much further, possibly all the
way back to Saturn Alien but this seems to be
when it really took hold.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Yeah, yeah, a little bit of both. And also the
eighteen hundreds was kind of when Germany was going through
a big wave of revival of old traditional stuff like this,
and it kind of became like like repopular through England
because the English monarchy had had close relations to Germany
(22:24):
at that time. So yeah, fun times. That's also where
we get Christmas trees from. Basically, I'm sure.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
They could never envision Christmas tree decked with star wars
and ornaments. But yeah, well, also Charles Dickens mentioned mould
wine in a Christmas Carol in eighteen forty three.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, at the end, when Scrooge has had his change
of heart, he offers Bob Cratchett the chance to talk
more about like workplace improvementsote over a Christmas bowl of
smoking Bishop, which, if you're unfamiliar, is a mix of
red wine and port steeped with roasted lemon and clothes. Again,
(23:11):
historical sources coming through roasted lemon. I've had lemon in
mulled wine, but roasting at first is such a good idea.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
That is a good idea. Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
Also one more historical note here, because I just did
a brain stuff episode about all of this. I mean
and or I know a lot about a Christmas Carol.
It's really impossible to overstate the influence that a Christmas
Carol has had on our modern American slash English concept
of Christmas. Like it is a very very very strong influence,
(23:48):
partially because Dickens was just a heck and rock star
in his time, and partially because right like because of that,
this literary work has stayed with us and men reiterated
so many different times. I will say that I'm a
little bit tired of straightforward productions of a Christmas Carol,
(24:09):
Like I've just seen it too many times and I
don't care anymore. But local menshes Dad's Garage, which is
an improving comedy company here in Atlanta. They do a
thing called Invasion Christmas Carol every year. If y'all are
in the Atlanta area, go check it out. They have Okay,
I'm sorry, this is along, This is along aside. What
(24:32):
they have is a cast that learns the text of
the play a Christmas Carol, and then every night they
have a different improver invader come in and that can
be That can be anything from like a robot from
the future to like ted Lasso to like the one
(24:55):
time I've been so far. This year they had David
from Shit's Creek come on. It was Yeah, it's always
absolutely delightful because it just throws the entire thing into chaos,
delightful chaos while they're still trying to work out the
basics of the plot.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
So I love it. I love it. Okay, Yeah, I definitely.
I would love to check that out. My I love
I feel like I've been singing this song my whole life.
But now everybody's on board the Muppet Christmas Carol.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Oh yeah, oh yes.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Michael Caine plays it so seriously, every their Muppets. Yeah,
it's so good and I feel like this year everybody's
like the Mumpet Christmas Carols.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Yeah, it's vindicated they Yeah, it's become another another like
holiday movie meme kind of situation.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
In the comparison between Michael Caine treating all the Muppets
like serious actors versus Tim Curry and Muppet Treasure Island
treating himself as a Muppet. Yes, both terrific performances.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
Yeah, very good.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Yeah, yes, at any rate, At any rate, that was
a very long dickens aside.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Sorry, it did have a big impact. So I have
a lot of friends that it scarred when they watched
these kids. It's kind of a.
Speaker 2 (26:17):
Scary it is. There's four ghosts. Man Marley is hecking creepy.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
But anyway, okay, okay, so yes, we've got this holiday
association happening. Yeah. By the eighteen nineties, mold wine was
very firmly established as a holiday at tradition in much
of Europe. Wine merchants would whip up their own recipes
and some even from what I read, most would put
(26:47):
something like Santa Claus on the labels, just very clearly
indicate yes, it's kind of a holiday thing. And soon
the holiday mold wine spread across the world and it
became global tradition, bigger in some places than others, and
all kinds of varieties were created using all kinds of
alcohols and ingredients. I found kind of an interesting chart
(27:11):
of where certain ones got really popular. Yeah. Interestingly, during
the nineteenth and twentieth centuries Australian cookbooks, they were much
more likely to use it as a curative as opposed
to like a holiday thing, so they would include recipes
(27:32):
for mold wine that were meant for healing someone who
might be sick or helping someone who might be sick,
which a lot of cookbooks just a Reminder did have
a section like that.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I was like, sure, yeah, yeah, I mean that was
definitely the start of what cookbooks were so right.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
But yeah, I mean, I feel like it's got a
steady place now. Maybe it's not like a huge thing,
but it's not forgotten either.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
Yeah. Yeah, it is definitely right. Like if a bar
is going to put together a holiday cocktail menu, I
feel like it's increasingly likely to see like a mold
wine alongside a hot toddy or something like that.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
I agree, I agree, And I think like that hot
chocolate wine thing I mentioned at the top, that that
went viral on TikTok, like that's kind of verging into
I feel like people have an interest in drinking wine
that is warm in one way or another. Maybe I'm wrong,
(28:35):
but I don't know. I feel like it's it is nice,
it's a nice treat when you can have it.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
Yeah, but that's what we have to say about muld
Wine from now.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
It is. If you have any traditions or recipes or memories,
we would love to hear them. But in the meanwhile,
we do have some listeners mail for you.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
We do, but first we have one more quick break
for word from our sponsors.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listen.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
I'm always so impressed with how you're able to do
this without being able to hear me, Lauren. Every time
we hear the like episodes before we release them, I'm like, Wow.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
I've I've learned I will A your your hand gestures
really really help, and and B I've learned how to
how to pitch my my my loudness so that it's
not so that I can hear most of it.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Oh nice, Yeah, I'm learning skills skills.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Also, I I genuinely believe that super producer Andrew gives
me a little bit of a boost, just just pitches
me a little bit closer to whatever you're doing.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah. Wow, he is amazing. But we must triloge. Okay,
So I wrote the Vegas stuff was fun. I've been
once back in twenty fourteen and would like to go again,
just to try some different food options. The amount of
choices in smaller in a smaller area makes it interesting
(30:31):
how to choose, roll the dice and see what comes up.
I've zeles, Oh how I love them. My favorite are
Annis and Lemon, although all of them are good. Now
I have to see if my parents have the Pazzelli
iron we had when I was growing up. As Lauren mentioned,
the opinions on the irons are interesting. Russian, Polish and
(30:55):
Slavic heritage on my mom's side, my mom and grandma
made great ones. Pittsburgh definitely has a number of good
places around here that make them. A winter day snow
on the ground, a hot cup of tea, a couple
of pazzilla and a book. What a way to relax.
What would you like to know about the cookie table?
(31:17):
It is definitely an extremely common thing around Pittsburgh, especially
if both parties are from the area. The deeper the ties,
the bigger the table. It seems my wife and I
did not have one years ago, as we had a
more informal reception that really did not have space For one,
my cousin had a pretty good sized table at her wedding.
(31:38):
I think there were twelve different types, and probably six
to eight dozen of me also had small boxes so
you could take them home. That is something else that
is pretty common with them. Make a lot and have
take home boxes. Some families will go into baking mode
the week before and bake everything. And there are bakeries
(32:00):
specialize in cookie tables. Not sure if my oldest is
going to have one. I stay away from the planning
to be on the safe side. Oh yeah, I love this,
and several of you have written about the cookie tables,
so we have more of those coming out.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
Excellent, so good.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
It's amazing. I this is so new to me, but
reading this message, I did remember. I had a friend's
a really close friend when I was growing up, who
was her relatives were from New York, Okay, and she
would do this huge baking week like before Christmas, and
(32:43):
one year I volunteered to help, and it was foolish.
It was so intense. They made so many cookies and
I just was exhausted at the end of it. And
then every year after that I found a reason to
be busy. But it was like they made so many
cookies and like the numbers you're saying, I do think
(33:03):
the take home boxes is a really cool idea.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Like yeah, yeah, well, from what I was reading about
cookie tables, okay, to answer your question, what we want
to know about cookie tables is literally everything. But from
what I was reading, yeah, there are like also capital
o opinions about like all right, like how many different
varieties of cookies it's appropriate to have, whether you like,
(33:26):
reveal the table before dinner or only after, whether if
the table is there during dinner, is it appropriate to
go get cookies before dessert? How many cookies of each
kind is it appropriate to take before everyone's kind of
had a chance to do you have boxes or not?
(33:50):
There's there, right, Like from what I understand, there are
strong opinions, and from what I read, yeah, like at
least six dozen of each type of cookie is reckoned
ended whoa.
Speaker 1 (34:07):
My goodness me, I honestly like I was exhausted after
helping my friend. Yes, I was covered in flower my
hands hurt.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Like yeah, yeah, yeah, I love I love the idea
of giving out boxes of cookies around the holidays, but
I certainly am not motivated enough to do that.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
I do. I do. I have friends.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
I have a number of groups of friends who have
a tradition of like doing like a like a cookie party,
like a cookie spot party, so that you all wind
up with a box of holiday cookies, but you're only
making one kind, like maybe two if you're ambitious.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, that sounds very nice. I did go through a
period where I was making a lot of cookies for
my mom's church. But I liked it because it was
that when I was really into baking. So it was
a fun way to experiment. And then like, I don't
need twenty four cookies, no, as one person, and so
I would make all these cookies. But then I started
(35:11):
getting requests and it got out of control. Oh yeah,
so I stopped. But I love this. I can't wait
to share the other messages we've got. Also, yes, if
you find this Pizzelli iron, please write in. And indeed,
Vegas is a every time you go to a city
that you haven't been to before, maybe even you have,
(35:34):
and they just have a million food choices, the choices.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It's definitely it's hard. Yeah, it's hard.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
It's hard work, typicult hard work.
Speaker 2 (35:43):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Nicole wrote, I was so excited to
see a pizzell episode of my feed. I had just
finished making pizzelli's for the holidays. It isn't Christmas until
at least one house smells like Annas. To throw another
contender into the pronunciation ring, my family says it pitzel
(36:05):
at the soft tea like pizza. We've definitely americanized a
lot of the Italian words for things, including our last name.
I'm originally from Pittsburgh, and considering the lukewarm reception I've
gotten over my cookies in Columbus the past couple of years,
they might be more popular in the Cleveland Youngstown part
of Ohio. My dad's side is the Italian side of
the family, and there were some great stories when we
(36:27):
met up with his extended family this past summer. It's
so big that you need a family tree just to
know who's related to who. My dad's one cousin told
the story about how one of his aunts asked his
future wife, who was not Italian, how she made her pizzelles.
She asked, what's a pizzelle and the aunt said, We've
got a lot of work to do with this one.
(36:49):
When they got married, they were gifted a custom pizzele
iron with their family crest in it. Those ladies were
the cookie Brigade, and my grandma was folded into that
when she married my grandma father. We used to make
dozens upon dozens of cookies for holidays and special events,
just for my dad's immediate family. I tried to eat
my weight in cookies every holiday when I was a child.
(37:11):
We don't make quite as money now, but I make
sure to have my favorites. Sometimes there are still opportunities
for cookie tables, but I feel like all the diet
crazes have killed that in my family. At least. I've
attached a picture of the last big cookie table I saw,
which was my cousin's wedding on my mom's side, from
almost a decade ago. We made a couple dozen Ladylocks
and my competitive mother was ecstatic that our cookies were
(37:33):
so popular that we didn't have any leftovers we had
to take home.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
Oh, the picture is spectacular, listeners, it is like a
full table yes of cookies. Also, I have to say
I really relate to your last statement because my mom
my mom does this. She's like, I'm tired of having
(37:58):
leftovers and then whenever everyone eats everything, then she's like,
we didn't have enough leftover, so she makes more and
I'm like, no, we're trapped in a cycle. It means
that you made enough and people liked it.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
We don't have to make more.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
But it's just funny. I feel like a lot of times,
I bet a lot of listeners can relate to that
or another. But yeah, I love that you have a
pizzelle with family crest.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Yeah, family, yes, yes, oh yeah, the Irons yeah, and
and oh man, I think okay, So I I'm pretty
sure that we've been saying it a little bit wrong
this whole time, because the zip, the the that that
double z in Italian really should be like a like
a soft tea like pizza, so pizzel or pizzelle would
(38:58):
be the more correct pronuncia. So I just further americanized
and an already Americanized thing.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
So my bad, sorry about that. I one of my
favorite line reads of all time, speaking of the holidays, Pizza,
Tim Curry, I'm alone too, pizza. He says it like
he's never heard it before. It's beautiful if you've.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Seen it, Yeah, Tim, Tim Curry's accent is so.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Unique.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
I don't say unique about many things because most things
are not. Heck and unique, that's that's not what they are.
But I where is he from? Nobody knows that accent
is from a little bit of everywhere. It's and it's beautiful.
It's a beautiful voice. So good, Yes, big fan, big fan, good.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
Yes, yes, And I also love that both of these
listeners are kind of from Pittsburgh area, have a relation
to Pittsburgh and they wrote about this. Yeah, those localities,
those like very specific things.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And and I will tell you that
a yes, yes, totally. The culture in Columbus, Ohio is
extremely different from the culture in the Tri state area.
My grandparents, my mom's parents are from Youngstown area, and
so yes, I can tell you that those are very
different things.
Speaker 1 (40:31):
Yes, and we love hearing about those different things.
Speaker 2 (40:34):
Oh yeah, oh yeah yes.
Speaker 1 (40:37):
So thank you to both of these listeners writing in.
If you would like to write to us, we would
love to hear from you. You can email us at
hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts
from my heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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