February 20, 2019 • 30 mins
The po’boy and muffuletta are integral stops on any New Orleans food tour, and their histories help tell the story of the city. Anney and Lauren explore the origins of these iconic sandwiches.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Poh boy pulls in every walk of life. So you
have a man with a five dollars suit roban elbows
when a guy who can barely afford the sandwich eating
the same thing. Uh, you know you go to fancy restaurants.
You only got people that can afford that. You go
to uh not real expensive restaurants. And in the neighborhoods,
the rich folks ain't going there. You know, only poor
folks go there. Poor boy poe boys bring everybody together. Hello,
(00:31):
and welcome to savor. I'm any Rees and I'm Lauren
folc Obaum, and today we're talking about the sandwiches of
New Orleans, mostly the po boy and the MUFFLETTA. Yes,
we unfortunately did not have the stomach space our time
on this trip to get to the muffalletta. But I
tried one from Central Delhi, which is the purported creator
of the muffalletta the first time I was in New Orleans,
(00:53):
and it was delicious. We had our fair share, perhaps
more than our fair share of po boys though. Um.
We got twitt to the twelfth annual Oak Street po
Boy Fest, and y'all it was a lot um. It
was half a mile of residential and commercial streets devoted
to a sandwich. So many people, there, so many good dogs, there,
(01:14):
so many Poe Boys, so little time. We were there
to talk to Justin Kennedy, which is the voice you
heard at the top. He is the general manager and
head chef at Parkway Bakery and Tavern. They are a
big name in Poe Boys, and Parkway has been in
operation since nineteen eleven, so they've been around a minute. Um,
it was where I went from my po Boy fixed
(01:35):
my first time in New Orleans. So did the Obamas
when they visited. There is a picture of them on
the wall with Justin Um. And that's the power of food,
you guys. We all got to eat and appreciate a
good meal at this festival. Um. Justin was working Parkway's
line at po Boy Fest and it was probably our
most chaotic interview ever. Yeah. I didn't realize that he
(01:58):
was going to be working the line there. And like
their line of customers was what thirty people deep fifty
it was a lot. Yeah. Anyway, after Gumbo, the New
Orleans food that our interviewees brought up the most was
probably Poe Boys. For example, here's New Orleans transplant Christopher Horner,
who's the general manager at the Bomb Bay Club, which
is a cocktail bar in the heart of the French Quarter.
(02:20):
There are a number of dishes that I fell in
love with when I first moved, and I still to
this day. I love poe boys. I think the poe
boys the food we had the most while we were there.
On our trip. I had at least three, maybe more,
depending on what constitutes a whole po boy versus a
(02:41):
half poe boy, because during our interview with Dicky Brennan
he provided poe boys, and I had a totally normal
amount of those. They were what I would have called halves,
as in, you know, like like four to six inches
rather than like eight to twelve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
think so. And it is one of those things, one
(03:02):
of those foods that you can find on menus, at
white tablecloth restaurants and in gas stations. It's a pretty
equal opportunity. You can find it all over. But all
of this brings us to our question, or our first question, sandwich.
What is it? That's that's that's a lot, yeah, too controversial,
(03:30):
different different episode, all rights. Poh boy, what is it? Well?
Po boys short for poor boys, are Okay, this is
another tricky one. Um. Po boys can be a lot
of things, but at its root it is a sandwich
made on oblong loaves of like chewy, fluffy bread with
(03:53):
a flaky, crisp crust that is inspired by French bagat
The protein can be just about anything you want um,
but common ones are fried or grilled shrimp or catfish,
fried oysters or soft shell crab, hot sausage, and or
tender shredded roast, beef or pork. Toppings may include cheese
or gravy, and whatever the protein and the toppings, they're
(04:15):
frequently dressed with shredded lettuce and sliced tomato, along with
other stuff like a mayo straight or flavored mustard and
sliced onion in pickles. They can get a little bit
contentious in there whether or not they belong, but sounds
about right. According to Justin, the thing that makes a
po boy a poe boy is the bread, a flaky,
crusty outside and a fluffy, hollowed out inside. He also
(04:39):
claims that the bread it changes when you take it
out of the state, not for the better. He's aware
this sounds made of he knows, but when asked the
follow up question, does that mean you can't have a
real poe boy outside of Louisiana. He's cooked to say,
not to disparage what out of Stairs are doing, but yeah,
I think so. Uh. Josh dom Elsi's the four generation
(05:03):
chef over at Domosis po Boys calls the humidity in
New Orleans or in Louisiana in general, the secret weapon.
A lot of the city of New Orleans actually rests
below sea level, So so the higher air pressure and
the humidity that comes with that, and with being on
the water and the warm climate, all of that changes things.
The yeast that you use to make this type of
(05:24):
bread rise. He's just a living thing. It's going to
behave differently in different environments, and in New Orleans it
gives your bread an airiness but also a chew. It's
good for bread use for Poe Boys, but not good
for other things like macarons and chocolate. In the words
of Ashley McMillan, executive pastry chef at Sukra in New Orleans,
as far as us for a company, the only challenge
(05:46):
we have is humidity. It destroys everything. I can relate
my first four at Macarons was a disaster, a tasty,
tasty disaster, and I blame the humidity, as is my right. Anyway,
that's a future episode, oh for sure, future episode. But yeah,
so so it could be that humidity. Justin also reported
(06:08):
to the BBC once that it could have to do
with the technique. Apparently po boy bread is made by
resting for twelve hours, punching it down, and then resting
it for another twelve hours, which is you know, I mean,
bread is essentially yeast, water, flower salt. But that resting
(06:28):
could have a lot to do with it. It could. Indeed,
in either case, the bread is the key. I read
in more than one place. Traditional ingredients between two slices
of white bread is not a poe boy. Non traditional
ingredients between the New Orleans baggett that we're talking about
here does count as a poe boy. Here's some examples
(06:50):
of non po boys, hogs, heroes, grinders, Zeppelin's SUPs, sub
or a submarine sandwich not a poe boy, not a
po boy. Those are different things, and you might cause
a sandwich related brawl if you call it po boy
in one of those things. Poe boys are, however, kind
of like a bond me. Oh yeah, and bon me
(07:13):
is definitely a whole episode unto itself. But basically this
is a type of Vietnamese sandwich, also served on an
oblong loaf of bread inspired by French by get, though
in my experience they're a little bit more like crusty
crisp than po boys anyway. Yeah, both sandwiches evolved out
of the French custom of serving back at with platters
of butter, cheese and cold meats um the French occupied
(07:34):
Vietnam for over a century. The Vietnamese take involves proteins
like pork, liver, patte or other pork products, or grilled
chicken or tofu, and they're often dressed with cilantro, shreaded
pickled carrots and radishes, sliced cucumber, maybe some mayo and
chili sauce. They started developing in Saigon as the French
rule was fought off in the nineteen fifties. You can
(07:55):
see evidence of South Asian influence all around the city.
After the and of the Vietnam War in the nineteen seventies,
many Vietnamese immigrants who fled to America settled in New Orleans.
For a couple of reasons. Both Vietnam and New Orleans
have been shaped by France, so they shared that similarity.
The climates were similar, and therefore so were the crops
that could be grown. Like rice numbers. Wise, po boy
(08:18):
numbers are a little hard to come by, but Justin
estimated that throughout the day at the aforementioned poe Boy fest,
around forty people would come through and that vendors could
expect to make two thousand sandwiches like each and there
were thirty two vendors. They're selling different types of poe boys,
So like he was estimating that they were around sixty
(08:40):
four thousand poe boys floating around that day. That's a
lot of poe boys, more than two. It was crowded.
Oh goodness, I had to duck into a comic book
shop to take a breath. She did, indeed. Oh and
one more number for you. The againest world record for
(09:01):
longest po boy was awarded on National Sandwich Day, that's
November three. The sandwich in question was three and fifty
two ft and eleven inches long, which is a little
bit over a hundred and seven ms. Impressive, But where
did this iconic sandwich get its start? We'll get into
(09:22):
that after a quick break forward from our sponsor and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So what
about po Boy history, specifically the history behind that name.
We asked Justin about that at poy Fest. Poor Boy
(09:44):
derived at a hard times nine the hi did a
great depression. Uh. You know, the main mode of transportation
around the city of New Lawrence was the street car. Uh.
And the street car workers weren't getting paid like many
other people in the states. So they strike. Okay, Well,
two former street car conductors who had made their way
up and retired before the hard times hit been in
(10:05):
Clovis Martin. They opened a grocery store on North Peter
Street called Martin Brothers Coffee Stand. They were furious that
the guys weren't getting paid, so they had the means
of getting money and clothing and food. And they said, look, guys,
you come to marm Brothers Coffee Stand on North Peter Street,
show your badge will feed. You will feed our poor boys.
Hence the name po Boy and started. The first poor
(10:27):
Boy sandwich was fried potatoes that hack it up, put
a little rost, beef, gravy and mayo on. We still
that have that today. But now it's derived into the
stuff like this bond Me's James Brown's. My buddies over
here at Red Fish Grill are doing a hot sausage
and catfish poe boys where they say it's it's it's
like it's culture you can eat. I want to put
(10:48):
in here that a place called Nola Boils and Catering.
One most unique at pot Boy Fast for it's s
cargo po boy Um with garlic butter, sauce, baby arugula
and shaved parmesan and also um Parkways aforementioned James Brown
Poboy one best of fest it was barbecue beef and
fried shrimp with a tabasco and crystal infused a oli
(11:10):
and uh they use a kitchen torch to melt on
a slice of pepper jack cheese to each sandwich by
hand and then dressed in with a lettuce, tomatoes and pickles.
Of course you also got a parkway hat. Oh I did, oh,
I wonder where that is we lost to the sands
of New Orleans. Oh no, it's probably in my weird
(11:31):
work it bag from New York. It was probably busy
trip anyway. It was just like almost everything we talked
about this sandwich was most likely being made before this
street car strike, probably even by the Martin brothers, but
this is when the name got coined and popularized. In
jazz legend Sydney Bushet's autobiography, he writes about a time
(11:54):
he and Louis Armstrong took their earnings from a show
and brought beer and quote, those sandwiches, poor boys, they're
called a half a loaf of bread, split open and
stuffed with ham. This event presumably took place in the
nineteen tents, before the Martin Brothers invented po boys. However,
there was also a chance that when writing this and
having knowledge of the term po boy, used it when
(12:16):
it didn't actually exist at the time he was describing.
In either case, it was a clever marketing move on
part of the Martin brothers. I would say they got
the name in the paper by journalist writing about them
giving away free sandwiches to striking street car workers, which
got them all this free positive publicity, endeared them to
the community and increased their customer base. The Martin brothers
(12:38):
were earnest though they were former street car conductors themselves,
and they wrote a letter to the union and it
is just so lovely and it's solidarity like it made
me for clumped. Okay, in part it read friends, we
are with you, heart and soul at any time you
were around the French market. Don't forget to drop in
at Martin's Coffee standing restaurant. Our meal is free to
(12:58):
any members of Division. We are with you till hell phrases,
and when it does, we will furnish blankets to keep
you warm with best wishes for your cause. We are
friends and former members of Division. Oh that is lovely,
I know, although we should say the first written mention
(13:20):
of the poh boy we know of, not written after
the case, was a part of a not so positive story.
Right four months after the street car strike, in the
press New Orleans was reporting on a high profile murder case.
A man on a steamship had fallen off the side
and what was at first thought to be a suicide. However,
(13:42):
when his body was recovered, authorities discovered he had been shot.
His female traveling companion divulged to the investigators that she
had become engaged to the second officer on the ship.
He became the prime suspect and was later charged with
murder from the publication the New Orleans stay quote. Presently,
the tree shaded courthouse lawn was dotted with groups gnawing
(14:04):
at the huge sandwiches New Orleans nose as the Poe
Boy sandwich, whole loaves of French bread, split lengthwise and
filled with a freight of ham, sausage or cheese, and
drinking from bottles of pop Oh and just by the way,
Both the second officer accused with the murder and the
female travel companion were exonerated. Yeah, going back to the bread,
(14:26):
why use baguettes? Well? Prior to the strike, the Martin
Brothers and others um used oval shaped loaves of bread
for their sandwiches. Depending on where you cut from, you
got different sized pieces of bread and therefore different sized sandwiches.
To make sure everyone got the same sized sandwich, the
Martin brothers worked with a baker by the name of
John Jen Dousa to make a uniform, rectangular shaped bread.
(14:50):
He came up with a thirty two inch loaf that
could be haved or quartered into equal pieces. To this day,
three of the earliest bakeries to do this still provide
the bread supply to most of the boy shops around
New Orleans. Um that's Lindenheimer, Binder and Doosa. Martin Brothers
wasn't the only name in the poe boy game. Soon after,
(15:11):
Parkway started offering poe boys in nineteen nine and offered
French fry poe boys to union workers for free. They
also sold them to the then newly opened American Can Company, which,
if I remember correctly, was right near Parkway. It was
open seven so for a time Parkway was to add
from the New Orleans item read French Market coffee and
(15:32):
lunchstand a Battistella proprietor originator of the poor Boys sandwich.
Po Boys would keep many families fed during the Great Depression,
with restaurants offering these large sandwiches for affordable prices. A
twenty pub boy cost fifteen cents in the nineteen thirties.
That's about two to three bucks in today's money. Of course,
those prices have not held in the modern trendiness of
(15:56):
food tourism and increasing ingredient prices due to a home
of factors, including but not limited to, global warming and
the Gulf oil spill. Sorry, didn't mean to slap you
all with an unexpected Lawrence Killjoy corner. There Um, the
serious and real problems of food and water, accessibility, and
education are topics for a different episode for our purposes
(16:16):
right now. Though, Um, yes, the price of pub boys
is going up. The folks over at NOLA dot com
actually created a database using an amazing sounding collection from
the Two Lane Library, the Louisiana Menu and Restaurant Collection.
But yeah, they crunched the numbers, and having adjusted for inflation,
the average price of po boys doubled from from a
(16:39):
little less than five bucks to a little less than
ten bucks. And that's just for the three classic types
of po boy oyster, shrimp, and roast beef. Like Justin
alluded to earlier, and like we've talked about in these
New Orleans episodes, there is room for so much creativity.
You've got your classic versions which are never going to
go away, and then a pub boy upon me. Po
(17:01):
boy Fest was conceived as a celebration of all of that.
It started up in two thousand and seven, just a
couple of years after Katrina, as the New Orleans Po
Boy Preservation Festival. Pretty Much every vendor at po boy
Fest offered something different. Po Boy Cajun servant, if smothered
rabbit Po Boy, crab me boudin balls, Po Boy as
(17:22):
Cargo Po Boy, smoked pork belly, and mac Po Boy.
Restaurants around town are experimenting to take the Vietnamese fun Boy,
which has all the ingredients of fun minus the noodles,
and it comes with fub broth for dipping available. There
are also some specific types of pub boys that have
their own followings at like the peacemaker and if you've
never heard of it, it's a pub boy with both
(17:44):
shrimp and oysters. And interestingly, it's history starts before the
po boys. Does time traveling poh boy if you will. No,
not really, but that would be cool. So on the
eight hundreds in San Francisco and New Orleans, you could
find a sandwich called an oyster loaf fried oysters on
French loaves sidebar. I've had one of these and they're amazing. Also,
(18:07):
I love fried oysters so well. Yeah, a sandwich with
both oysters and shrimp was known as a peacemaker. Now.
I thought that this name came from the fact that
shrimp and oyster lovers were making peace with their hunger
by having both, Like you can't decide have both or
maybe shrimp and oysters making peace with each other and
themselves before being devoured. However, according to Jay Harlow's The
(18:32):
Art of the Sandwich, the sandwich got its name in
the nineteen hundreds from husbands who had done something wrong
and brought home a peacemaker to appease their angry wives
like a preemptive apology and hope that it would prevent
an argument. I could think tactic. I could be easily
swayed by sandwiches. It's true, it depends. I'm pretty sure
(18:57):
I have prevented fights by bringing bond me to be pole.
So yeah, okay, now, dude. In the words of Justin Kennedy,
(19:19):
Poe boys are a way of life. Um. He's quoted
on the Parkway website as saying it's like going to church,
It's like walking your dog. It's the lifeblood in New Orleans.
I'm glad to be a part of it. Further proof
a sandwich can be so much more than a sandwich.
All of the history and science and culture and people
coming together to make something that we often forget. Who
(19:42):
does all of that? And we have a another New
Orleans sandwich icon to talk about. The muffletta and we'll
get into that after we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(20:03):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
our second question of the episode. The muffalletta. What is it? Well,
the muffalletta is a type of cold cut sandwich, spread
thick on both sides of the bread, usually with a
sort of chopped salad of an olive and pickled veg
(20:24):
and served on a large round of flattish bread with
a firm, spongey texture and a soft crust coated on
the top in sesame seeds. It's often cut into quarters
for serving, and those cold cuts can be a lot
of things, but they usually include um one cured sometimes
smoked meat like a presciutto or a capacola, one horse
ground sausage like supersatta or salami, and one like superfine
(20:48):
ground like a mulsified sausage like a mortadella or bologna
um sometimes called bolowny here in the United States. There's
usually some cheese slices involved too, like a mozzarella and provolone,
and the olive salad is sort of like a like
a Sicilian antiposity plate went through a food processor. Um,
it's like olives and pickled cauliflower, carrots and celery, seasoned
(21:10):
with garlic and maybe a regano and bound with olive
oil and vinegar, maybe with some capers, pepper chini, pimientos,
roasted red peppers, or even anchovies thrown in the mix.
The sandwich is usually built and uh kind of wrapped
and allowed to hang out for at least an hour
to let that um, all of salad, the oils, and
the juices sink into the bread. So good to heat
(21:33):
or not to heat? That is the question, and it
seems like most people are in the consensus. Not not no,
but Napoleon House, which is this beautiful establishment in the
French Quarter going back all the way to nineteen fourteen
or longer depending on where you read, which I find
super interesting that at one time was an Italian market.
(21:55):
The folks behind Apollon House claimed to have debuted the
heated muffletta in the nineties seventies. The muffalletta is a
section you can click on on their website like it's
like drink menu food menu. The muffalo history when the
heated muffletta first came out one food critics set of it. Quote,
(22:16):
it changes the sandwich from an art to an atrocity,
so controversial. Yeah. Um. And just to set the scene
of this establishment a little bit, um, here's a clip
of us discussing it in studio with superproducer Dylan. When
we got back from our trip, we went so many
more places than I remembered. Yeah. Now, we went to
Napoleon House, which is like a shrine to Napoleon, has
(22:39):
a lot of paintings of him, paintings of him with
various leaders, dramatic music, very dramatic music. We felt like
we were having a lot like war conference, wartime conference,
absolutely at our table. Also, they claim to have invented
a certain type of pens cup, so we all got
pms cups. Very very good, And I mean, I can't
(23:01):
recommend more that you just turn on some traumatic music
and drink mumps and have a lot of panto. I
thought it was great. Put your fist on the table,
you know, while you're talking about like the dog log
or something. The dog Log, by the way, is the
travel journal that Dylan keeps of all of the really
(23:22):
good dogs that he sees. Yeah, it's great. Back to
Muff lettuce, though, what about that name. It can be
spelled with a U or an a in the center
of the word, and it can mean not only the sandwich,
but also a loaf of bread that the sandwich is
made with. It seems to derive from a Sicilian dialect
(23:42):
version of the Italian word muffo letta with an o
meaning little muff as in a thick, rounded mitten, or
possibly the Sicilian word for mushroom. Anyway, Um, yeah, the
sand which is nicknamed, by the way, is simply the
muff kind of like the po boy, both in importance
of the bread and the multiple spellings. The muffaledtta got
(24:03):
its start in nineteen oh six, a creation of Salvatore
Lupo at his store Central Grocery Co. New Orleans, as
we keep saying, is a port town, so many folks
came through there, um, and many stayed and contributed to
the culture and cuisine. After the unification of Italy in
the eighteen seventies, which Sicily supported, the new government was
(24:26):
not kind to Sicilians nor to some other groups, and
so from the eighteen eighties through the nineteen twenties, some
two d ninety thousand Italians mostly Sicilians, immigrated to New
Orleans out of the port of Palermo. Many moved into
an area in the lower French Quarter near the French Market,
so much so that locals dubbed it for a time
Little Palermo, or the Italian sector or Little Italy. By
(24:48):
nineteen fifteen, percent of the French Quarter was Italian. It
was not all smooth cultural sailing. Um. There's a lot
of xenophobia leveled against them, leading to the largest mass
lynching recorded in America's history. Eleven Italians were taken from
jail cells and killed. But nonetheless, yeah, the Sicilians settled
in and yes, they brought their foods, tinned tomatoes, olives,
(25:10):
types of cheese, and preserved meats and breads, among other things.
At the time, Sicilian farmers would visit Central grocery after
a trip to the French market, and they'd buy all
the makings of a muffaletta separately and tried to precariously
balance all of the components. Seeing this, Lupo got the
grand idea of combining the ingredients and putting them between
(25:31):
bread to make an easier, less messy lunchtime experience. Sandwiches
really are one of the ultimate convenience foods. Supposedly um
Central groceries still uses the same secret recipe for their
olive salad. While the history of the muffalletta sandwhich might
seem fairly recent, the bread has been around a lot longer.
Sicilian bakers have been making the spread four centuries, passing
(25:54):
their recipes down generation after generation. When Sicilian immigrants arrived
in New Orleans, bakers among them, they carried on that tradition.
Bakers would sell their loaves of bread on the streets
shouting muffalletto, Caldo, Caldo, it's hot. Yes from the times
pick a une quote as big as a hubcap, and
layered with ham, salami, provolone, cheese, and critically olive salad,
(26:16):
A single muffalotta sandwich can feed for grown adults. The muffalotta,
despite its Italian sounding name and ingredients, is pure New Orleans.
It can be found neither in Italy nor in the
other American cities, nor in the other American cities that,
like New Orleans, received an influx of Italian immigrants in
the late nineteenth century. The one I had while I
was there my first time was like Scooby doo level large,
(26:40):
the kind where you're wondering how the heck am I
going to eat this, like you're doing a calculation in
your Yeah. Yeah, when it's not had or quartered. I
mean it's big. It is enormous. Um. I managed just fun.
I always do graceful. Note fine, Yes, it does come
in quarters. And my friend and I split the sandwich,
(27:00):
and each of us could only finish one quarter, so
we both got two quarters. We could only eat one. Um.
We saved the other one for later. And then we
have to cross the street in cabagnets from Cafe Dumont.
Once again, I did just fine, but I was covered
in powdered sugar for the rest of the day. We
we also had a powdered sugar incident when we visited
(27:21):
I I did anyway like don't inhale y'all um. I
wound up coughing powdered sugar like all over. Dylan, who
as the only genteel human among us, had thus far
come through unscathed. Um. Luckily it was it was nighttime.
We were about to go to a fancy dinner. Also,
I believe and correctly if I'm wrong, but both you
(27:42):
and Dylan were wearing black Yeah, we were both wearing
black pants. That wasn't really that wasn't really the time
to go. I don't think. No, uh yeah, we occasionally
wondering we did get dessert before I went to this
fancy restaurant like the pros, and I think and I
think we had dessert while we were there as well.
Of course, of course, for a long time, UM Central
(28:07):
Groceries biggest Muffletta competitor was a placed by the name
of Progress Grocery just a few doors down. They would
close in two thousand two, but the owners do still operate.
The food supplier Pironian Suns, the company that's behind the
best loaves of bread for Muffalletta's. United Bakery closed in
two thousand five after Katrina. The owners of Napoleon House
(28:27):
searched out the United recipe and finally found it a
decade later, and they now bake their own. Oh and
New Orleans finally got a Muffletta festival starting. So I
suppose you can count any day as a Muffletta festival
if you try hard enough, and I do. Central Grocery Ships.
By the way, you're curious, we were not sponsored by
(28:49):
them or anyone for your information, um for this whole
mini series, but if you want to try it and
you can't find any around you, they do ship. I
can't speak about the price. It's probably a lot, but
just just putting that out there, or you could make it. Yeah,
look lots of lots of recommendations online for for what
to do to approximate the bread. Yeah, listeners, do you
(29:13):
have any Poe boy or muffle out of thoughts, theories, recipes, recommendations.
Please let us know at Hello at savor pod dot com.
You can also find us on social media. We are
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at savor pod. We hope
to hear from you. Thank you as always for our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard are Executive producer Christopher Hatziotis,
(29:34):
all of our interviewees, and all of the good folks
who put us in touch with those interviewees. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way. What about y'all sandwiches I
got um. I made my decision largely on pun which
is how I made many of my decisions. Uh, Poe Boy,
(29:55):
you can't refuse the Godfather. It was so both the
pun in the sandwich, they were excellent. Yeah, um that
was That was something that we had been warned about,
is that the lines are so long. We really only
had time to try the one, but it was a
good one. Yeah, it was real, real hungry, and so
(30:17):
I went to one that had a reasonable line, Bang
bang shrump, and I like found the closest curb and
just like scarfed it immediately. Yeah, but now, incredible festival.
I was amazed by how large it was.
Poh boy pulls in every walk of life. So you
have a man with a five dollars suit roban elbows
when a guy who can barely afford the sandwich eating
the same thing. Uh, you know you go to fancy restaurants.
You only got people that can afford that. You go
to uh not real expensive restaurants. And in the neighborhoods,
the rich folks ain't going there. You know, only poor
folks go there. Poor boy poe boys bring everybody together. Hello,
(00:31):
and welcome to savor. I'm any Rees and I'm Lauren
folc Obaum, and today we're talking about the sandwiches of
New Orleans, mostly the po boy and the MUFFLETTA. Yes,
we unfortunately did not have the stomach space our time
on this trip to get to the muffalletta. But I
tried one from Central Delhi, which is the purported creator
of the muffalletta the first time I was in New Orleans,
(00:53):
and it was delicious. We had our fair share, perhaps
more than our fair share of po boys though. Um.
We got twitt to the twelfth annual Oak Street po
Boy Fest, and y'all it was a lot um. It
was half a mile of residential and commercial streets devoted
to a sandwich. So many people, there, so many good dogs, there,
(01:14):
so many Poe Boys, so little time. We were there
to talk to Justin Kennedy, which is the voice you
heard at the top. He is the general manager and
head chef at Parkway Bakery and Tavern. They are a
big name in Poe Boys, and Parkway has been in
operation since nineteen eleven, so they've been around a minute. Um,
it was where I went from my po Boy fixed
(01:35):
my first time in New Orleans. So did the Obamas
when they visited. There is a picture of them on
the wall with Justin Um. And that's the power of food,
you guys. We all got to eat and appreciate a
good meal at this festival. Um. Justin was working Parkway's
line at po Boy Fest and it was probably our
most chaotic interview ever. Yeah. I didn't realize that he
(01:58):
was going to be working the line there. And like
their line of customers was what thirty people deep fifty
it was a lot. Yeah. Anyway, after Gumbo, the New
Orleans food that our interviewees brought up the most was
probably Poe Boys. For example, here's New Orleans transplant Christopher Horner,
who's the general manager at the Bomb Bay Club, which
is a cocktail bar in the heart of the French Quarter.
(02:20):
There are a number of dishes that I fell in
love with when I first moved, and I still to
this day. I love poe boys. I think the poe
boys the food we had the most while we were there.
On our trip. I had at least three, maybe more,
depending on what constitutes a whole po boy versus a
(02:41):
half poe boy, because during our interview with Dicky Brennan
he provided poe boys, and I had a totally normal
amount of those. They were what I would have called halves,
as in, you know, like like four to six inches
rather than like eight to twelve. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
think so. And it is one of those things, one
(03:02):
of those foods that you can find on menus, at
white tablecloth restaurants and in gas stations. It's a pretty
equal opportunity. You can find it all over. But all
of this brings us to our question, or our first question, sandwich.
What is it? That's that's that's a lot, yeah, too controversial,
(03:30):
different different episode, all rights. Poh boy, what is it? Well?
Po boys short for poor boys, are Okay, this is
another tricky one. Um. Po boys can be a lot
of things, but at its root it is a sandwich
made on oblong loaves of like chewy, fluffy bread with
(03:53):
a flaky, crisp crust that is inspired by French bagat
The protein can be just about anything you want um,
but common ones are fried or grilled shrimp or catfish,
fried oysters or soft shell crab, hot sausage, and or
tender shredded roast, beef or pork. Toppings may include cheese
or gravy, and whatever the protein and the toppings, they're
(04:15):
frequently dressed with shredded lettuce and sliced tomato, along with
other stuff like a mayo straight or flavored mustard and
sliced onion in pickles. They can get a little bit
contentious in there whether or not they belong, but sounds
about right. According to Justin, the thing that makes a
po boy a poe boy is the bread, a flaky,
crusty outside and a fluffy, hollowed out inside. He also
(04:39):
claims that the bread it changes when you take it
out of the state, not for the better. He's aware
this sounds made of he knows, but when asked the
follow up question, does that mean you can't have a
real poe boy outside of Louisiana. He's cooked to say,
not to disparage what out of Stairs are doing, but yeah,
I think so. Uh. Josh dom Elsi's the four generation
(05:03):
chef over at Domosis po Boys calls the humidity in
New Orleans or in Louisiana in general, the secret weapon.
A lot of the city of New Orleans actually rests
below sea level, So so the higher air pressure and
the humidity that comes with that, and with being on
the water and the warm climate, all of that changes things.
The yeast that you use to make this type of
(05:24):
bread rise. He's just a living thing. It's going to
behave differently in different environments, and in New Orleans it
gives your bread an airiness but also a chew. It's
good for bread use for Poe Boys, but not good
for other things like macarons and chocolate. In the words
of Ashley McMillan, executive pastry chef at Sukra in New Orleans,
as far as us for a company, the only challenge
(05:46):
we have is humidity. It destroys everything. I can relate
my first four at Macarons was a disaster, a tasty,
tasty disaster, and I blame the humidity, as is my right. Anyway,
that's a future episode, oh for sure, future episode. But yeah,
so so it could be that humidity. Justin also reported
(06:08):
to the BBC once that it could have to do
with the technique. Apparently po boy bread is made by
resting for twelve hours, punching it down, and then resting
it for another twelve hours, which is you know, I mean,
bread is essentially yeast, water, flower salt. But that resting
(06:28):
could have a lot to do with it. It could. Indeed,
in either case, the bread is the key. I read
in more than one place. Traditional ingredients between two slices
of white bread is not a poe boy. Non traditional
ingredients between the New Orleans baggett that we're talking about
here does count as a poe boy. Here's some examples
(06:50):
of non po boys, hogs, heroes, grinders, Zeppelin's SUPs, sub
or a submarine sandwich not a poe boy, not a
po boy. Those are different things, and you might cause
a sandwich related brawl if you call it po boy
in one of those things. Poe boys are, however, kind
of like a bond me. Oh yeah, and bon me
(07:13):
is definitely a whole episode unto itself. But basically this
is a type of Vietnamese sandwich, also served on an
oblong loaf of bread inspired by French by get, though
in my experience they're a little bit more like crusty
crisp than po boys anyway. Yeah, both sandwiches evolved out
of the French custom of serving back at with platters
of butter, cheese and cold meats um the French occupied
(07:34):
Vietnam for over a century. The Vietnamese take involves proteins
like pork, liver, patte or other pork products, or grilled
chicken or tofu, and they're often dressed with cilantro, shreaded
pickled carrots and radishes, sliced cucumber, maybe some mayo and
chili sauce. They started developing in Saigon as the French
rule was fought off in the nineteen fifties. You can
(07:55):
see evidence of South Asian influence all around the city.
After the and of the Vietnam War in the nineteen seventies,
many Vietnamese immigrants who fled to America settled in New Orleans.
For a couple of reasons. Both Vietnam and New Orleans
have been shaped by France, so they shared that similarity.
The climates were similar, and therefore so were the crops
that could be grown. Like rice numbers. Wise, po boy
(08:18):
numbers are a little hard to come by, but Justin
estimated that throughout the day at the aforementioned poe Boy fest,
around forty people would come through and that vendors could
expect to make two thousand sandwiches like each and there
were thirty two vendors. They're selling different types of poe boys,
So like he was estimating that they were around sixty
(08:40):
four thousand poe boys floating around that day. That's a
lot of poe boys, more than two. It was crowded.
Oh goodness, I had to duck into a comic book
shop to take a breath. She did, indeed. Oh and
one more number for you. The againest world record for
(09:01):
longest po boy was awarded on National Sandwich Day, that's
November three. The sandwich in question was three and fifty
two ft and eleven inches long, which is a little
bit over a hundred and seven ms. Impressive, But where
did this iconic sandwich get its start? We'll get into
(09:22):
that after a quick break forward from our sponsor and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So what
about po Boy history, specifically the history behind that name.
We asked Justin about that at poy Fest. Poor Boy
(09:44):
derived at a hard times nine the hi did a
great depression. Uh. You know, the main mode of transportation
around the city of New Lawrence was the street car. Uh.
And the street car workers weren't getting paid like many
other people in the states. So they strike. Okay, Well,
two former street car conductors who had made their way
up and retired before the hard times hit been in
(10:05):
Clovis Martin. They opened a grocery store on North Peter
Street called Martin Brothers Coffee Stand. They were furious that
the guys weren't getting paid, so they had the means
of getting money and clothing and food. And they said, look, guys,
you come to marm Brothers Coffee Stand on North Peter Street,
show your badge will feed. You will feed our poor boys.
Hence the name po Boy and started. The first poor
(10:27):
Boy sandwich was fried potatoes that hack it up, put
a little rost, beef, gravy and mayo on. We still
that have that today. But now it's derived into the
stuff like this bond Me's James Brown's. My buddies over
here at Red Fish Grill are doing a hot sausage
and catfish poe boys where they say it's it's it's
like it's culture you can eat. I want to put
(10:48):
in here that a place called Nola Boils and Catering.
One most unique at pot Boy Fast for it's s
cargo po boy Um with garlic butter, sauce, baby arugula
and shaved parmesan and also um Parkways aforementioned James Brown
Poboy one best of fest it was barbecue beef and
fried shrimp with a tabasco and crystal infused a oli
(11:10):
and uh they use a kitchen torch to melt on
a slice of pepper jack cheese to each sandwich by
hand and then dressed in with a lettuce, tomatoes and pickles.
Of course you also got a parkway hat. Oh I did, oh,
I wonder where that is we lost to the sands
of New Orleans. Oh no, it's probably in my weird
(11:31):
work it bag from New York. It was probably busy
trip anyway. It was just like almost everything we talked
about this sandwich was most likely being made before this
street car strike, probably even by the Martin brothers, but
this is when the name got coined and popularized. In
jazz legend Sydney Bushet's autobiography, he writes about a time
(11:54):
he and Louis Armstrong took their earnings from a show
and brought beer and quote, those sandwiches, poor boys, they're
called a half a loaf of bread, split open and
stuffed with ham. This event presumably took place in the
nineteen tents, before the Martin Brothers invented po boys. However,
there was also a chance that when writing this and
having knowledge of the term po boy, used it when
(12:16):
it didn't actually exist at the time he was describing.
In either case, it was a clever marketing move on
part of the Martin brothers. I would say they got
the name in the paper by journalist writing about them
giving away free sandwiches to striking street car workers, which
got them all this free positive publicity, endeared them to
the community and increased their customer base. The Martin brothers
(12:38):
were earnest though they were former street car conductors themselves,
and they wrote a letter to the union and it
is just so lovely and it's solidarity like it made
me for clumped. Okay, in part it read friends, we
are with you, heart and soul at any time you
were around the French market. Don't forget to drop in
at Martin's Coffee standing restaurant. Our meal is free to
(12:58):
any members of Division. We are with you till hell phrases,
and when it does, we will furnish blankets to keep
you warm with best wishes for your cause. We are
friends and former members of Division. Oh that is lovely,
I know, although we should say the first written mention
(13:20):
of the poh boy we know of, not written after
the case, was a part of a not so positive story.
Right four months after the street car strike, in the
press New Orleans was reporting on a high profile murder case.
A man on a steamship had fallen off the side
and what was at first thought to be a suicide. However,
(13:42):
when his body was recovered, authorities discovered he had been shot.
His female traveling companion divulged to the investigators that she
had become engaged to the second officer on the ship.
He became the prime suspect and was later charged with
murder from the publication the New Orleans stay quote. Presently,
the tree shaded courthouse lawn was dotted with groups gnawing
(14:04):
at the huge sandwiches New Orleans nose as the Poe
Boy sandwich, whole loaves of French bread, split lengthwise and
filled with a freight of ham, sausage or cheese, and
drinking from bottles of pop Oh and just by the way,
Both the second officer accused with the murder and the
female travel companion were exonerated. Yeah, going back to the bread,
(14:26):
why use baguettes? Well? Prior to the strike, the Martin
Brothers and others um used oval shaped loaves of bread
for their sandwiches. Depending on where you cut from, you
got different sized pieces of bread and therefore different sized sandwiches.
To make sure everyone got the same sized sandwich, the
Martin brothers worked with a baker by the name of
John Jen Dousa to make a uniform, rectangular shaped bread.
(14:50):
He came up with a thirty two inch loaf that
could be haved or quartered into equal pieces. To this day,
three of the earliest bakeries to do this still provide
the bread supply to most of the boy shops around
New Orleans. Um that's Lindenheimer, Binder and Doosa. Martin Brothers
wasn't the only name in the poe boy game. Soon after,
(15:11):
Parkway started offering poe boys in nineteen nine and offered
French fry poe boys to union workers for free. They
also sold them to the then newly opened American Can Company, which,
if I remember correctly, was right near Parkway. It was
open seven so for a time Parkway was to add
from the New Orleans item read French Market coffee and
(15:32):
lunchstand a Battistella proprietor originator of the poor Boys sandwich.
Po Boys would keep many families fed during the Great Depression,
with restaurants offering these large sandwiches for affordable prices. A
twenty pub boy cost fifteen cents in the nineteen thirties.
That's about two to three bucks in today's money. Of course,
those prices have not held in the modern trendiness of
(15:56):
food tourism and increasing ingredient prices due to a home
of factors, including but not limited to, global warming and
the Gulf oil spill. Sorry, didn't mean to slap you
all with an unexpected Lawrence Killjoy corner. There Um, the
serious and real problems of food and water, accessibility, and
education are topics for a different episode for our purposes
(16:16):
right now. Though, Um, yes, the price of pub boys
is going up. The folks over at NOLA dot com
actually created a database using an amazing sounding collection from
the Two Lane Library, the Louisiana Menu and Restaurant Collection.
But yeah, they crunched the numbers, and having adjusted for inflation,
the average price of po boys doubled from from a
(16:39):
little less than five bucks to a little less than
ten bucks. And that's just for the three classic types
of po boy oyster, shrimp, and roast beef. Like Justin
alluded to earlier, and like we've talked about in these
New Orleans episodes, there is room for so much creativity.
You've got your classic versions which are never going to
go away, and then a pub boy upon me. Po
(17:01):
boy Fest was conceived as a celebration of all of that.
It started up in two thousand and seven, just a
couple of years after Katrina, as the New Orleans Po
Boy Preservation Festival. Pretty Much every vendor at po boy
Fest offered something different. Po Boy Cajun servant, if smothered
rabbit Po Boy, crab me boudin balls, Po Boy as
(17:22):
Cargo Po Boy, smoked pork belly, and mac Po Boy.
Restaurants around town are experimenting to take the Vietnamese fun Boy,
which has all the ingredients of fun minus the noodles,
and it comes with fub broth for dipping available. There
are also some specific types of pub boys that have
their own followings at like the peacemaker and if you've
never heard of it, it's a pub boy with both
(17:44):
shrimp and oysters. And interestingly, it's history starts before the
po boys. Does time traveling poh boy if you will. No,
not really, but that would be cool. So on the
eight hundreds in San Francisco and New Orleans, you could
find a sandwich called an oyster loaf fried oysters on
French loaves sidebar. I've had one of these and they're amazing. Also,
(18:07):
I love fried oysters so well. Yeah, a sandwich with
both oysters and shrimp was known as a peacemaker. Now.
I thought that this name came from the fact that
shrimp and oyster lovers were making peace with their hunger
by having both, Like you can't decide have both or
maybe shrimp and oysters making peace with each other and
themselves before being devoured. However, according to Jay Harlow's The
(18:32):
Art of the Sandwich, the sandwich got its name in
the nineteen hundreds from husbands who had done something wrong
and brought home a peacemaker to appease their angry wives
like a preemptive apology and hope that it would prevent
an argument. I could think tactic. I could be easily
swayed by sandwiches. It's true, it depends. I'm pretty sure
(18:57):
I have prevented fights by bringing bond me to be pole.
So yeah, okay, now, dude. In the words of Justin Kennedy,
(19:19):
Poe boys are a way of life. Um. He's quoted
on the Parkway website as saying it's like going to church,
It's like walking your dog. It's the lifeblood in New Orleans.
I'm glad to be a part of it. Further proof
a sandwich can be so much more than a sandwich.
All of the history and science and culture and people
coming together to make something that we often forget. Who
(19:42):
does all of that? And we have a another New
Orleans sandwich icon to talk about. The muffletta and we'll
get into that after we get back from a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
(20:03):
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
our second question of the episode. The muffalletta. What is it? Well,
the muffalletta is a type of cold cut sandwich, spread
thick on both sides of the bread, usually with a
sort of chopped salad of an olive and pickled veg
(20:24):
and served on a large round of flattish bread with
a firm, spongey texture and a soft crust coated on
the top in sesame seeds. It's often cut into quarters
for serving, and those cold cuts can be a lot
of things, but they usually include um one cured sometimes
smoked meat like a presciutto or a capacola, one horse
ground sausage like supersatta or salami, and one like superfine
(20:48):
ground like a mulsified sausage like a mortadella or bologna
um sometimes called bolowny here in the United States. There's
usually some cheese slices involved too, like a mozzarella and provolone,
and the olive salad is sort of like a like
a Sicilian antiposity plate went through a food processor. Um,
it's like olives and pickled cauliflower, carrots and celery, seasoned
(21:10):
with garlic and maybe a regano and bound with olive
oil and vinegar, maybe with some capers, pepper chini, pimientos,
roasted red peppers, or even anchovies thrown in the mix.
The sandwich is usually built and uh kind of wrapped
and allowed to hang out for at least an hour
to let that um, all of salad, the oils, and
the juices sink into the bread. So good to heat
(21:33):
or not to heat? That is the question, and it
seems like most people are in the consensus. Not not no,
but Napoleon House, which is this beautiful establishment in the
French Quarter going back all the way to nineteen fourteen
or longer depending on where you read, which I find
super interesting that at one time was an Italian market.
(21:55):
The folks behind Apollon House claimed to have debuted the
heated muffletta in the nineties seventies. The muffalletta is a
section you can click on on their website like it's
like drink menu food menu. The muffalo history when the
heated muffletta first came out one food critics set of it. Quote,
(22:16):
it changes the sandwich from an art to an atrocity,
so controversial. Yeah. Um. And just to set the scene
of this establishment a little bit, um, here's a clip
of us discussing it in studio with superproducer Dylan. When
we got back from our trip, we went so many
more places than I remembered. Yeah. Now, we went to
Napoleon House, which is like a shrine to Napoleon, has
(22:39):
a lot of paintings of him, paintings of him with
various leaders, dramatic music, very dramatic music. We felt like
we were having a lot like war conference, wartime conference,
absolutely at our table. Also, they claim to have invented
a certain type of pens cup, so we all got
pms cups. Very very good, And I mean, I can't
(23:01):
recommend more that you just turn on some traumatic music
and drink mumps and have a lot of panto. I
thought it was great. Put your fist on the table,
you know, while you're talking about like the dog log
or something. The dog Log, by the way, is the
travel journal that Dylan keeps of all of the really
(23:22):
good dogs that he sees. Yeah, it's great. Back to
Muff lettuce, though, what about that name. It can be
spelled with a U or an a in the center
of the word, and it can mean not only the sandwich,
but also a loaf of bread that the sandwich is
made with. It seems to derive from a Sicilian dialect
(23:42):
version of the Italian word muffo letta with an o
meaning little muff as in a thick, rounded mitten, or
possibly the Sicilian word for mushroom. Anyway, Um, yeah, the
sand which is nicknamed, by the way, is simply the
muff kind of like the po boy, both in importance
of the bread and the multiple spellings. The muffaledtta got
(24:03):
its start in nineteen oh six, a creation of Salvatore
Lupo at his store Central Grocery Co. New Orleans, as
we keep saying, is a port town, so many folks
came through there, um, and many stayed and contributed to
the culture and cuisine. After the unification of Italy in
the eighteen seventies, which Sicily supported, the new government was
(24:26):
not kind to Sicilians nor to some other groups, and
so from the eighteen eighties through the nineteen twenties, some
two d ninety thousand Italians mostly Sicilians, immigrated to New
Orleans out of the port of Palermo. Many moved into
an area in the lower French Quarter near the French Market,
so much so that locals dubbed it for a time
Little Palermo, or the Italian sector or Little Italy. By
(24:48):
nineteen fifteen, percent of the French Quarter was Italian. It
was not all smooth cultural sailing. Um. There's a lot
of xenophobia leveled against them, leading to the largest mass
lynching recorded in America's history. Eleven Italians were taken from
jail cells and killed. But nonetheless, yeah, the Sicilians settled
in and yes, they brought their foods, tinned tomatoes, olives,
(25:10):
types of cheese, and preserved meats and breads, among other things.
At the time, Sicilian farmers would visit Central grocery after
a trip to the French market, and they'd buy all
the makings of a muffaletta separately and tried to precariously
balance all of the components. Seeing this, Lupo got the
grand idea of combining the ingredients and putting them between
(25:31):
bread to make an easier, less messy lunchtime experience. Sandwiches
really are one of the ultimate convenience foods. Supposedly um
Central groceries still uses the same secret recipe for their
olive salad. While the history of the muffalletta sandwhich might
seem fairly recent, the bread has been around a lot longer.
Sicilian bakers have been making the spread four centuries, passing
(25:54):
their recipes down generation after generation. When Sicilian immigrants arrived
in New Orleans, bakers among them, they carried on that tradition.
Bakers would sell their loaves of bread on the streets
shouting muffalletto, Caldo, Caldo, it's hot. Yes from the times
pick a une quote as big as a hubcap, and
layered with ham, salami, provolone, cheese, and critically olive salad,
(26:16):
A single muffalotta sandwich can feed for grown adults. The muffalotta,
despite its Italian sounding name and ingredients, is pure New Orleans.
It can be found neither in Italy nor in the
other American cities, nor in the other American cities that,
like New Orleans, received an influx of Italian immigrants in
the late nineteenth century. The one I had while I
was there my first time was like Scooby doo level large,
(26:40):
the kind where you're wondering how the heck am I
going to eat this, like you're doing a calculation in
your Yeah. Yeah, when it's not had or quartered. I
mean it's big. It is enormous. Um. I managed just fun.
I always do graceful. Note fine, Yes, it does come
in quarters. And my friend and I split the sandwich,
(27:00):
and each of us could only finish one quarter, so
we both got two quarters. We could only eat one. Um.
We saved the other one for later. And then we
have to cross the street in cabagnets from Cafe Dumont.
Once again, I did just fine, but I was covered
in powdered sugar for the rest of the day. We
we also had a powdered sugar incident when we visited
(27:21):
I I did anyway like don't inhale y'all um. I
wound up coughing powdered sugar like all over. Dylan, who
as the only genteel human among us, had thus far
come through unscathed. Um. Luckily it was it was nighttime.
We were about to go to a fancy dinner. Also,
I believe and correctly if I'm wrong, but both you
(27:42):
and Dylan were wearing black Yeah, we were both wearing
black pants. That wasn't really that wasn't really the time
to go. I don't think. No, uh yeah, we occasionally
wondering we did get dessert before I went to this
fancy restaurant like the pros, and I think and I
think we had dessert while we were there as well.
Of course, of course, for a long time, UM Central
(28:07):
Groceries biggest Muffletta competitor was a placed by the name
of Progress Grocery just a few doors down. They would
close in two thousand two, but the owners do still operate.
The food supplier Pironian Suns, the company that's behind the
best loaves of bread for Muffalletta's. United Bakery closed in
two thousand five after Katrina. The owners of Napoleon House
(28:27):
searched out the United recipe and finally found it a
decade later, and they now bake their own. Oh and
New Orleans finally got a Muffletta festival starting. So I
suppose you can count any day as a Muffletta festival
if you try hard enough, and I do. Central Grocery Ships.
By the way, you're curious, we were not sponsored by
(28:49):
them or anyone for your information, um for this whole
mini series, but if you want to try it and
you can't find any around you, they do ship. I
can't speak about the price. It's probably a lot, but
just just putting that out there, or you could make it. Yeah,
look lots of lots of recommendations online for for what
to do to approximate the bread. Yeah, listeners, do you
(29:13):
have any Poe boy or muffle out of thoughts, theories, recipes, recommendations.
Please let us know at Hello at savor pod dot com.
You can also find us on social media. We are
on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at savor pod. We hope
to hear from you. Thank you as always for our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard are Executive producer Christopher Hatziotis,
(29:34):
all of our interviewees, and all of the good folks
who put us in touch with those interviewees. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way. What about y'all sandwiches I
got um. I made my decision largely on pun which
is how I made many of my decisions. Uh, Poe Boy,
(29:55):
you can't refuse the Godfather. It was so both the
pun in the sandwich, they were excellent. Yeah, um that
was That was something that we had been warned about,
is that the lines are so long. We really only
had time to try the one, but it was a
good one. Yeah, it was real, real hungry, and so
(30:17):
I went to one that had a reasonable line, Bang
bang shrump, and I like found the closest curb and
just like scarfed it immediately. Yeah, but now, incredible festival.
I was amazed by how large it was.
Savor News
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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