December 4, 2019 • 39 mins
This stir-fried noodle dish is famous not just because it’s delicious – it’s also the product of an intense marketing campaign from Thailand’s government. Anney and Lauren dig in to the slippery history of pad Thai.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. I'm Annies and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and
today we're talking about pad tie. Yes, I had a
craving from the just start of the idea. Yes, oh yeah,
the second that we like put it down in the sheet,
right up until now. It's still happening. I just ate
like two giant handfuls of honey roasted sunflower seeds. Not
(00:30):
that that has anything to do with pad tie, but
I was just like nut flavor, nut flavor and savory
kind of sweet. I just need something, I need something. Well.
I appreciate that, Lauren, but I don't think that counts.
It doesn't. It doesn't. Think we might just have to
get some pad time. I've ordered pad tie no less
than two times since Sweet started idea this process. I've
(00:54):
been moving, I'm moving in. I have it on my
calendar sometime this week get pad ti uh um, yeah,
because I've been on a pretty big pad tied kick lately.
Um And it's part of my ramen for all the time. Craving,
I guess like noodles and kind of Asian flavors. I
don't know what's happening, but those other things don't deliver late,
(01:14):
but padi does, so that is key for me. Yes,
I it is one of my favorite dishes. And okay, so,
my my grandmother loved Thai restaurants and at her favorite,
which was this little place run by the sweet couple
who was about her age. Um, we would always order
(01:36):
meet crub for an appetizer, which is this like, um,
a crispy fried noodle dish. Um. It's really light and
airy and sweet and savory. Um. And then would each
get our own plate of pad tie. We could not
share one because hers was was zero spice, totally mild,
and mine was like three star spice, pretty spicy. Um.
(01:59):
And yeah, just one of my very favorite comfort foods. Um.
And it is totally the first thing that I order
at Thai restaurants that I haven't been to yet, just
to like get the lay at the land tested out. Yeah, totally, okay, Yeah,
I am. I remember the first time I had pet
tie to to my shame, I suppose, but I was
with my mom at in college as the first time
(02:22):
I am, and we went to a chain which I
will not name, but probably did not have a good
representation a pet tie. It was still good because I
mean noodlesodles, stir fried noodles. Yeah, but since then, I
think I had pet tie maybe a couple of weeks
before we did. We decided to do this and my
friend and I she also can't take any spice, so
(02:43):
I went with the three spices and she got the
nose spice and we compared because we were like, how
accurate is this spice system? Like what I mean? Yeah,
I was definitely spicier. I don't know if it was
three pepper spicier, but it was spicier. I do always
wonder about that. I feel like at a certain point
it's like it's like Ladies clothing sizes. It's like those
those words and numbers don't mean anything, right, Why even
(03:07):
have the mom there? We should do a savor investigation
the pepper rating system. Look for that in an upcoming episode.
I didn't want to say before we get into our
main question. Our first question, um, if you search pat tie,
at least my search results. One of the first suggested
search results was, um, why is pad tie so popular?
(03:29):
So we are not the only ones? Yeah, like pat
tie or there's some people who think it's heck and overrated.
Oh we'll fight you, we will. We probably won't work
pretty nice, but anyway, okay, our question pad tie? What
(03:50):
is well? Pat tie or pat tie um p h
A t tie, which is the official romanization, is a
noodle dish consisting of kind of meat um skinny flat
rice noodles, eggs, and a protein like like shrimp, pork,
chicken and or tofu stir fried together with seasonings and sauce.
The pad part means stir fried. Those seasonings are often
(04:13):
dried shrimps, baked tofu, preserved radish and fresh garlic. And
these sauce is made from tamarin paste or juice, palm
sugar fish sauce and a rice vinegar and or lime juice.
And then the whole thing, uh yeah, it's garnished with
like chopped peanuts and green onions and fresh bean sprouts
and a lime wedge. Chili powder can be added to taste,
(04:34):
and you have when you when you stir fry this
altogether that the noodles soak up the pan sauce and
the eggs kind of partially fry and partially scramble, and
the whole thing comes together as this amalgam of all
of the flavors and textures. You've got sweet and sour
and savory and salty, possibly spicy, with a tender noodles
and chewy protein and crunchy sprouts and peanuts. Um. It's
(04:57):
served hot, fresh out of a single serving pan. Very important.
And it is, as we have been talking about, immensely cravable,
um and also immensely adaptable because every cookoo makes it
has their take, their perfect balance of all of those
flavors and textures. Um. I am still chasing that first
pad tie, still have a favorite. No one else makes
(05:19):
it good enough. Uh Like I like my noodles chewier
than than soft, and like a lot of tamarind and
dried shrimp flavor. And the protein has to be pork um,
though we would sometimes get pork and shrimp because we
we're the worst to But yeah, you can. You can
cook it with all kinds of additions, add all kinds
(05:41):
of garnishes. Um. I have picked up the notion from
reading Bangkok chefs recipes that there is a distinct sensibility
about what is and is not okay to add, Like
pure ad chilis is okay, but chili paste is cheating.
Um line either definitely goes in the sauce or is
deaf atly only a garnish. Okay, Um, Chopped shallots are good,
(06:04):
but onions are weird. UM garnishing with a tart fruit
like mango is great, but American FUSIONI ingredients like sliced
sweet peppers is a real head scratcher. And speaking of
fusion E, additions like peanut butter or soy sauce or
curry powder or sesame oil are just not nope, super
(06:24):
nope for you or for for for for humans that
have a larger opinion about it than I do, Like I,
I agree from reading what they have said and comparing
that to my sense memories of different ways that I've had,
PAD tie that that the version that they seem to
(06:47):
be espousing is a version that I enjoy more. But
I don't have a strong opinion about it. But you
know that I always love a strong opinion. So yeah, yeah,
pretty great, pretty wonderful. Um pat tis usually starved as
an entree for lunch or dinner. I understand that in
Thailand the locals mostly get it from street vendors. Is
like a quick lunch, but it's serving restaurants around the
(07:09):
world and US old prepackaged as like a frozen meal
or um or ramen kind of situation. You can certainly
also cook it from scratch at home, and if you
want to do so, there are as I kind of
just alluded to, um, a lot of recipes out there. Um,
but I would say that there are three secrets in
(07:30):
heavy scare quotes, and those seem to be simmering your
sauce lightly to make sure it's real good and combined.
Don't just start. You really need to get the palm
sugar in there. You soak your noodles in cold water
for half an hour before you start, until they're pliable
enough to wrap around your finger, um like a hard
al dante. Yeah and uh yeah, And then having all
(07:51):
of your other ingredients and steps planned and prepared before
you start is critical because, as with any stir fry,
things go real quick once they start to go. I
also think it's considered proper to have out dishes of
extra sugar and fish sauce and chili flakes that everyone
can seas and to taste. This is making me nervous,
I you know. Uh, but that being said, like Okay,
(08:17):
so so to so two things like, like, A, here's
the part where I'm like checking myself and trying to
remember that not everyone grew up with this dish or
in areas lucky enough to have thriving immigrant populations who
bring so much to the community of particular interest right
now their food. Um. So, if you don't have a
market the imports from Thailand or other Southeast Asian countries,
(08:38):
lots of big groceries these days do have Asian sections
in their international aisles where you can sometimes find stuff
like fish sauce and dried shrimp and proper noodles. Um.
If not, you can definitely find them online. Or this
brings me to the second thing. Uh, you know, cook
your own take to your own taste with what you
like and can find eat food that you like eating. Yeah,
(09:02):
but I will say that tracking down those ingredients is
super worthwhile because like fish sauce, it's this salted, fermented
preparation of fish that over the course of a couple
of years becomes this amazingly flavorful, funky sweet, salty, savory brine.
And tamarind is this fantastic fruit that's us so tart
and just a little sweet and has this like weird
(09:23):
rich savory edge to it, and dried shrimp are just
little umami bombs. And palm sugar is collected as a
sap from date palm trees and it tastes like less
sweet and more rich than refined sugar. All great things
future episodes, all yes, um but for for our purposes here,
I'll just say, yeah, I love this because I actually
(09:45):
don't have that much experience with Badi until semi recently,
So I love that you're like this part and this
part and this is here too. It's wonderful. It is
it is I know, Oh my gosh, I definitely didn't
there's a Thai restaurant near now, but there was where
(10:08):
I was growing up. But funnily enough, my mom and
I went to that die restaurant over the Thanksgiving break
and we got fun because she never had fun. Okay, well,
wouldn't be my first at a tire restaurant, but while
we were looking for fusspecifically, but that was the only
(10:28):
place that had fun because there's no any delicious. It
was delicious, Yeah, it was, it was. I always forget
that is a nice thing about smaller towns. When you're like, oh,
eight dollar bowl and it comes out and it's a
norm it's like the size of your head. Yeah, And
I said that would be like a little yeah, like
(10:49):
an appetizer size bowl. Actually it was pretty well priced.
But anyway, we're not talking about that today. No, not
not today. What about some nutrition, y'all? Uh. I feel
like that's how I beget a lot of my nutritions. Yeah,
but it's a noodle stir fry, you know, like you've
got a lot of carbs. Depending on the cook it
(11:09):
can involve a lot of oil for the frying. Um.
Fast food versions often have a whole lot of salt too.
And it's not that any of those things are necessarily bad,
like you need all of them in order to live, um.
But but just you know, like in balance with protein
and veg for fiber and vitamins and minerals and pad
tide does tend to be over balanced on the carbs
(11:31):
and fat end like it might like it'll fill you up,
but it might not keep you going for that long, um,
depending on how much protein you've got in there. But yeah,
I'd say it's kind of in the treat category. Um.
And you know, as always to watch your serving sizes,
and that if you want to make a meal with
it a little bit healthier, add like a vegetable side
dish or or or aptizer salad. Yeah, putting a real
(11:54):
cramping mustyle orum, sorry about it, It's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
I did see a lot of articles that I did
not read because I didn't want to know. But it
was like fast food patchie, worse for you than McDonald's
question mark. I'm like, leave me alone. But that doesn't
seem to have stopped pet tis popularity. Oh goodness, not
(12:16):
at all. Yes, um, As I was saying at the
top that Google search, where I just put in pad
thaie it returned one inten million results. Yeah, I read
in some places that that number was even bigger. This
was my specific experience, okay, yes, um. Here in the US,
some food critics like you, Lauren, use it as a
dish to measure new Thai restaurants. According to Nick se Sawat,
(12:41):
a native of Thailand who is in charge of a
large Thai restaurant in Washington, d C. Quote, whenever we
tried Thai food, we tried pat Thai first, because that
is a way to judge how good a restaurant is
that's true all over the world except in Thailand. That's because,
in his mind, Thai street vendors have perfected pat tie,
and restaurants don't eve and try to compete unless they
(13:01):
are targeting tourists specifically. Yeah. Nick gave that quote to
one Alexandra Greeley, writing for Gastronomica that the Journal of
Critical Food Studies and oh it's a great article. It's
called finding pad Tie was super useful. Here go check
it out if you want any more. Yes, so helpful.
In a Facebook poll of thirty five thousand people around
(13:24):
the world, they named the world's best foods. I went
through all of them and I was like, yeah, I
like that, Yeah, I like that. But pad ti came
in fifth of the world's best foods. Yeah, that's wonderful. Um,
And I found an article that claimed pad tie was
the best dish, not a good dish, the best dish
to eat before a race, and thank you for that.
(13:45):
Excuse to try that out, even though it could be disastrous.
Hard to say, Yeah, I have to be a smaller portion. Okay, Yeah,
I've heard a lot about pre race food and how
critical from me? Probably, Yeah, that's true, but other runners
as well, like you are not the only one who
says that this is an important thing. It's a huge concern.
(14:07):
Things can go horribly all right, if you make the
wrong decision. We won't get into that now. The many
reasons I don't understand marathons, but you keep doing. You know,
it's kind of a fun experiment because you're like, wow, body,
what is this? What are you doing to me right now?
Trying to shut me down? But I won't anyway. Um
(14:30):
Tie kitchen dot Org reported in two thousand seven that
at least eleven thousand, six hundred restaurants around the world
offer pat tie on their menus. The National Food Institute's
deputy director estimated that number would jump to over twenty
thousand by two thousand eight. Huh, that is a massive jump.
They're probably working up two different numbers. I don't know.
(14:51):
I couldn't. I couldn't find any modern numbers. I looked. Yeah,
yeah either. According to Vice, they are about five thousand
two tie rest staurants in the United States as compared
to the population of Thai Americans. This is a relatively
high number, and this is in part due to gastro
diplomacy on Thailand's part, similar to what we talked about
(15:12):
in our kim Chi episode. Gastro diplomacy is something government's
due to increase soft power and tourism, and a little
bit more on that in a history portion. While for
a lot of us, Pad Thai is the quint essential
Thai dish, it most likely didn't come from Thailand. The
Foreign Minister at the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, d C.
(15:33):
Tomahala daryan Ying claimed that Thai food is generally Indo
Chinese in origin, which I guess brings us to some history.
It does, but first it brings us to a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(15:55):
Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. And disclaimer before we start,
we did our best to look up pronunciations. Oh yes,
neither of us speak tie and we we try, we do.
Uh and you know, apologies in advance for I'm sure
we will not get some of them correct. Yeah if
(16:17):
we if we get something wrong. Um, and you have
a pronunciation guide for us, we would love we would
love to hear it. We always love learning these things.
And um, yes, yes and disclaimer number two. The history
on this one is a bit twisty and confusing. It
is very fascinating. Oh yes, gosh, but a bit messy.
(16:40):
So all right, those disclaimers out of the way. Yes,
it turns out pats I probably originally came from China.
The dishes full name pat Tie is suggestive of the past,
since quatio is Chinese for rice noodles, and then you've
got pad meaning stair, fried and tie meeting in the
(17:01):
Thai style exactly. Early settlers from southern China most likely
brought their fried rice and noodle dishes and cooking styles
with them, and a lot of historians do place the
origins of both stir frying and noodles in China. The
cooked meats and vegetables in Pad Thai resemble early dishes
out of the Guangdong province and dishes prepared by the
Cantonese people. Some historians think that contemporary Thai people's ancestors,
(17:25):
who were called the Diet People, migrated from southern China
around the tenth century. See there are certainly a lot
of similarities when it comes to things like language, dress,
and cooking styles. To this day, the Diet People make
up China's largest ethnic minority, and not that folks weren't
there beforehand. Like a one archaeological site in Thailand, Bantyang
(17:46):
has evidence of the oldest known agrarian society in the region,
with a rice patties and domesticated farm animals and ceramic
and bronze manufacture dating back to one thousand, four b C.
So Yes, but there are a lot of culinary influences
in traditional Thai cuisine UM Sechuan and other especially Southern
(18:10):
Chinese styles of cooking UM, Indian Buddhist styles, Malaysian styles,
UM and yeah. Ingredients used in different regions of what
is now Thailand reflect the differing climates and tastes from
those places. Uh. Europeans discovered Southeast Asia in the seventeen hundreds,
and traders and explorers and colonizers and straight up pillagers
(18:32):
began moving through the region around that time. UM. There
were a few kings of what's now Thailand ish over
the centuries who embraced some aspects of these new cultures
and technologies and weapons and foods that were brought through.
One king in the sixteen eighties apparently loved French cheese
and wine UM and also a few culinary influences from
(18:53):
the Portuguese and Dutch creept in, but for the most part,
the kingdoms of what is now Thailand were kept fairly
insular for a few hundred years after that contact. And
I can't argue with him with that one guy about
the French cheese and wine. Yeah it's pretty okay. I
love that too, but yeah, fairly insular until one king.
(19:17):
I think I'm saying that right. I'm so sorry. Uh.
In the eighteen fifties and sixties, Um he is the
dude that the titular king and the king and I
is loosely based on Um. There are real diaries from
a real teacher who was in then Ziam at the time,
and from that there was a fictionalized novel that was written,
(19:39):
and from that Rogers at Hammerstein vaguely based their musical.
But anyway, King Um he opened up his kingdom to
world trade, and Um his son after him, would very
carefully and diplomatically go further because Thailand is the only
(20:01):
place in that area that was never colonized. And and
they did this by seeding territory to a few European powers,
playing them off of each other the entire time. Um
and he and his court and by extent his people
adopted some looser Western social practices during his rule up
until nineteen ten. Yes, and this brings us to Night
(20:25):
and Thailand's Prime Minister People so Grom. Six years earlier,
he was an officer and significant figure in a military
coup that removed absolute power from the monarchy of Thailand.
He went on to quash royalist rebellion a year later
as essentially the Minister of Defense, and from there rose
up to Prime Minister. The Prime Minister, who went by
(20:49):
several names apparently filled Martial Pollock. People so Gram or
Fibbin in the West, really wanted to modernize Thailand and
to some extent where stradize it along with that, all
the while creating something specifically that the world would recognize
as Tie, creating a brand, Yes, exactly, um and sometimes
(21:10):
he did this through brutal methods. Um. Despite being surrounded
by French and British colonies, Thailand was never colonized and
the country was fairly ethnically diverse, and so to keep
the country together and free of foreign powers, Fibbin really
wanted to consolidate a strong national identity in a public
ninety one address, he said, in an effort to build
(21:32):
a nation with a firm and everlasting foundation, the government
is forced to reform and reconstruct the various aspects of society,
especially its culture. In a cabinet meeting, he explained, we
must be as cultured as other nations, otherwise no country
will come to contact us, or if they come, they
come as superiors. Thailand would be helpless and soon become colonized.
(21:54):
But if we were highly cultured, we would be able
to uphold our integrity, independence and keep everything to selves.
So you could probably tell from that there's some he
went to school in Europe, I believe, so there was
some European superiority that he really took to heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(22:14):
very very very internalized. Yes. Um. He passed twelve cultural mandates.
As a part of these initiatives, the Primister changed the
name of the country from Siam to Thailand in ninety nine.
As a part of this westernization, local dialects and languages
were banned from schools and the curriculum was updated to
focus on unifying history of Thailand. A new national greeting
(22:38):
was introduced and promoted decisions around things ranging from architecture
and Buddhist clergy appointments were transferred to the capital. The
Islamic courts of Thailand's Malay minority were closed. Ethnic Chinese
were unceremoniously removed from positions of power across the country.
Fibbin pushed European stout clothing and hatwear. He advised on
(23:00):
things like proper sleeping methods, an appropriate amount to contact relatives.
He really cultivated a cult of personality. His portrait was
placed across the country and his birthday became a national holiday.
Another part of this was creating a national dish pad
tie from Penny van Estric's book Materializing Thailand quote. Part
(23:24):
of Fibbins nation building strategy was to develop Thaie nous
and impose a Thie great tradition to demonstrate the strength
and unity of the Thai nation. His series of decrees
from nine to nineteen forty two suggested what could be
done to strengthen the Thaie economy, to instill national image
and pride, and to improve the national diet. Popularizing a
(23:45):
noodle dish was one means to that end, and his
son later said pad CMEs didn't have the same ring
to it as pad tie I guess that's a fun thing. Um.
The iteration of pad die that the government popularized was
then previous versions, primarily in the type of noodle used
rice noodles versus imported wheat noodles, but also the addition
(24:07):
of tie chilis, tamarind and palm sugar, and the use
of shrimp over pork. Fibin wanted to differentiate this dish
from Chinese noodle dishes. In van Estrix estimation, that makes
pad tie a very specific invention. According to Nitya people
Somerom Graham, the former US Ambassador from Thailand and Minister
(24:27):
of Foreign Affairs, and phibbins Son, Fibbin was attempting to
help Thaie farmers. He tied the eating of pad tie
to helping the Tie people, specifically the farmers, the Thaie economy,
and basically all of that to being patriotic. By eating this,
you're being patriotic. Yeah, yeah uh. He recalls eating it
in his household, but does not remember who invented it.
(24:48):
Some sources report the recipe as a result of a
recipe contest. Yeah, but I could not find any sources
to verify that. It is repeated in a lot of places.
But nothing super like. Yeah, um, people, some Grandma does
believe that the Thai government popularized this dish in part
because they believed, or at least they advertised, that it
(25:09):
would be a nutritious part of the Tide diet, especially
compared with other staples of the time like rice served
with salt, greens, and chili paste. Compared to that dish,
pad Tide more protein and in general more vegetables, and
the noodles were both cheap and filling. Bibbins said, I
want everyone to eat noodles. Noodles are healthy and have
a variety of taste from sour to salty to sweet.
(25:30):
Noodles can be made in Thailand, are convenient to make,
and have excellent taste. If every tie person ate a
bowl of noodles every day, then every day eighteen million
bowls of noodles will be consumed, equal to ninety millions
of tongue or nine hundred thousand bots. That's a lot
of money cycling through the economy, which will then go
to farmers and fishermen. Wow, yeah, I guess when you
(25:51):
put it that way. Yeah, sure, people. Some Grahama went
on to say, and that two has a nine Gastronomica interview.
By the way he was interviewed in that article, we
um that Fibbin used the dish to promote sanitary cooking
and food during massive flooding in Thailand when a lot
of disease was rampant. World War two was also going
(26:11):
on at this time, um resulting in a shortage not
of rice noodles, but of rice. The government did their
best to make things easy for the Thai people to
adopt pad tie, like providing recipe cards across the country,
and this was actually pretty new for Thailand at the time.
Folks typically didn't follow codified recipes, though the codified recipe
for a pet tie did leave a lot of room
(26:32):
for interpretation experimentation. Officials also strongly advised that Bangkok street
vendors with wheeled noodle carts start making the dish, and
in some accounts, the government gave vendors promising to serve
pad tie these carts for free. Yeah, because it was
so readily and cheaply available, pad tie became a super
convenient food, in the words of Fibbins Sun, Thailand's first
(26:55):
fast food. Chinese vendors were not allowed to sell quote
foreign foods, and a campaign called Noodle is Your Lunch
was launched and a song was even written, Noodle is
Your Lunch. Yes, I will not sing it, but I
really wish sighted do. Do you know the melody? No?
I did try to find it and if anyone has
like a link or something to do it, I would
(27:16):
love to hear it. It goes. Noodles, noodles, noodles. Thai
vegetables are wealth in the ground. You can find it anywhere.
Keep buying and selling as Thai people always help each other.
Noodles noodles, Can I try some? I'd like some. Try
noodles noodles. Give me Somehow about some wet thie noodles?
So clean, delicious and beautiful noodles noodles? Come try and
you'll love it. Ties help ties and Thailand will develop
(27:39):
with rough han in Yam. I probably butchered that, but
I tried, you did? I did? I like that? I
feel like it probably does have a really catchy tune
based on it sounds like it based on the rhythm.
Fippin was forced out of office as World War Two
came to an end, though he returned to power from
nine fifty seven, but Patti was there to stay. Yeah.
(28:04):
In English, a few books and other printed materials mentioned
pad Tie in that mid to late fifties kind of era,
but the dish didn't really enter the English speaking public
consciousness until the nineteen eighties, as tourism to Thailand started booming. Yes,
and that brings us to gastro diplomacy that we mentioned earlier.
(28:24):
As a part of this gastro diplomacy, the Thai government
founded the Global Thai Restaurant Company Ltd. In two thousand
one with the goal of opening three thousand Thai restaurants
around the world, and this was a plan at least
a decade in the making. Chef were trained to go
abroad and cook Thai foods at these restaurants. According to
(28:45):
Thailand's Deputy Commerce Minister at the time, the ultimate goal
of the Global Thai Restaurant Company Ltd Was to become
quote like the McDonald's of Thai food. They didn't quite
pull that off, but they succeeded in increasing the number
of Thai restaurants around in the world. Thailand's Department of
Export Promotion came up with three tiers of restaurant plans
(29:05):
to make it easy so Basically you could be like,
I want to do a fancy one, middle of the
road one are kind of a cheaper one, um. And
they came with menu items and notes on aesthetics already
in there, just a complete plan. The three types were
called Elephant Jump, Cool Basil, and Golden Leaf. The Export
Import Bank of Thailand provided incentives for Thai people considering
(29:28):
opening restaurants abroad by offering loans. The government even established
a specialized Thai chef's visa in New Zealand. I even
check it's still there, or at least the web page
was still there. Um. In fourteen, Thai restaurants in the
US were awarded Thai Select Certificates to indicate authenticity. These
(29:49):
certificates are given out by the Thai Ministry of Commerce. Huh.
I never knew about this, and I feel like it
explains a lot about a lot of the Tai strands
I've been to in like very different areas of the
United States. I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna see. Not that
it will really as long as the food is good,
I'm fine, but I am to see if I see
(30:11):
the certificate next time I go. Yeah, because I saw
pictures of it. It kind of looks like a health
apartment sort of much less going on than that, but
you know, just a piece of paper and frame. Um, yeah,
there's this a whole story. I had no idea, right, yeah,
I'm like, this delicious thing that I love was made
(30:33):
to be loved. Yes, yes, um yeah, I forgot to
ask have you ever made it? Uh? No? Um. I
think that I thought about making it really hard one
time and then looked at what was involved, and then
when I know, yeah, yeah, I don't know why, but
(30:58):
noodle dishes make me nervous. Yeah, stir frying makes me nervous.
I've had I've had bad stir fries happen where the
eggs never really scrambled and then it got soupy and
weird and then it wasn't it was bad. It was bad. Um.
And yeah, the I think the last time that I
thought about it, it was before I had access to
(31:22):
like a car to get me to places that had
the ingredients that I would make, and I was like,
I'm not putting peanut butter in my I draw the
line there. So yeah, yeah, because yeah, there's it's funny,
like there are so many pro offered substitutions for different things,
(31:42):
like if you can't find palm sugar, like some people
say that maple syrup is the closest that we get
in America to a similar product in terms of taste.
And yeah, they're the people rail against this rail rail,
I tell you. Um, but yeah, maybe maybe I'll try again. Yeah,
(32:05):
maybe I'll just make this happen. I could be your
assistant too, nervous. Who did it with the pride chicken?
Who's the assistant and who's the assistant? Though maybe we're
both assistants. I think that's it. Yeah, Well, all I
know is pat has to happen in my future. I
do have where I live, no joke. At the one
(32:26):
of the corners, the biggest like intersections near me, there
are four Thai restaurants, but right next to oh wow,
there are that's right. Yeah, I remember the two, but
I always forget about the other two. Yeah, well what
there used to be three, but now one of them split.
And it's really funny because it's the same restaurant, but
there has different names and different vi like aesthetics, the
(32:47):
menus the same. And my friend totally felt for that trick.
She's like that one looks way cooler than this. I
was like, oh my god, it's the same restaurant. That's great.
They're doing some experiments of their own. That makes me happy,
and it's strange, nerve racked way. It made me laugh.
It made me laugh because I was like, I'm pretty
sure this is over by the same people. It definitely is.
(33:09):
I think they're just a testing Yeah. Well, hey, well
hopefully we'll get some fantizing gosh, yes, so so hopefully
so much. Um, I need to make a track over
to my favorite place in town, Little Bangkok h Bridge. Yeah, yes,
we our office used to be near there, and there
weren't that many benefits to that office, but that was
(33:30):
that was one of them Atlanta humans. If you haven't
been a Little Bangkok off of Cheshire Bridge, please go
order the meet crob and the Tay Coconut soup and
the pad tie and I mean whatever else you want, Like,
I can't tell you otherwise you're doing it wrong. Uh. Anyway,
(33:50):
we do have a little bit more for you, but
first we've got one more quick break for a wood
from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with listener male. I'm feeling
(34:12):
right now. Yeah. Dominique wrote Hello from French Canada and
thank you for your wonderful cinnamon bun episode. I'm writing
to you to let you in on a French Canadian secret.
They are called pet the sore. Sorry, there is no
phonetic equivalent to an English try you sound. I did
(34:34):
try that. The sara means drumroll please non spun sparts.
These tasty pastries were commonly made with pie dough scraps,
rolled with brown sugar and cooked inverted in a glaze,
squished together in a pan. Though when I was young
in the nineties not too long ago, all cinnamon buns,
even the American style, were referred to as pet. It's
(34:57):
not that the pet is a hominem where it came
from being a nun's pet, like teacher's pet in a
bilingual environment. Still, nun's farts is pretty funny. And yes,
I laughed aloud when I read it. That is so delightful.
Thank you, wonderful. You say anything in French and it
just sounds gorgeous and sophisticated. What was that you were saying?
(35:19):
It sounds so lovely. Oh, it means nuns farts. It
means nun's farts. That's what it means. I will take one.
I'll take a pan heck, Emma wrote, and she included
in this a few Swedish words which I'm not going
to attempt to pronounce because I'm tired today, y'all. But okay,
Emma wrote, I just listened to your Cinnamon Role episode
(35:41):
and so it enjoyed it. Thank you, partly because it
was a great episode and partly because I'm Swedish. Let
me tell you, fika is serious business over here. Someone
goes as far as saying it's cornerstone of the Swedish culture. Well,
I may not go as far. I do think it's
very enjoyable and poses a serious threat to my race line.
Many offices have two fikas a day, one in the
(36:03):
morning around ten am and one in the afternoon around
three to three thirty pm. It's the one in the
afternoon that counts the most because it's more likely to
include sweet things. Some offices have a rotating schedule for
who is said to bring treats once a week, but
Vika takes place every day and there are usually some
cookies lying around. I myself have been the baker of
said treats on many occasions for my parents throughout high
(36:24):
school and more recently during visits on break from university,
and used it as an opportunity to test new recipes.
It turned into such a thing in my dad's office
they were disappointed if I ever dared repeat a cookie
or kke recipe as an indication of how important fika
is here, the household staple cookbook for cookies called Seven
Kinds of Cookies had its one edition published in the
(36:48):
first ever was published in I'm pretty sure I've seen
an English version in bookstores here as well. To satiate
curious tourists whole that a lot of additions in like
six okay ship, I'm coming back on the topic of
cinnamon buns. They are facing some stiff competition here nowadays
from the cardamom bun. The latter bun is usually made
(37:11):
with the same yeasted dough, but with more cardamom in
it and a feeling that's either butter, sugar and cardamom
or an almond paste cardamom filling my preferred option. According
to my mom. It's a true sign of being an
adult when you go from preferring the cinnamon version to
the cardamom version. Swedish Fabric Bakery recently opened up a
shop in New York City on West fourteenth Street, and
(37:32):
they have excellent versions of both. Sorry for the long email,
but I'm a Swede and Fika a way of life
that is so cool to get, Like that is such
a bigger deal than what I was imagining when I
was reading about it. Oh no, I don't know. I
kind of got vibes of this, like it was like, no, seriously,
and then we go take a break and we eat
something and we have a coffee. And but twice a
(37:54):
day is I don't think I read twice a day. Yeah,
so that's really fun. Yeah, that's I love it. I
love the pastry, like at the afternoon one is where
the sweets are going to be, right, yeah, oh my gosh.
And especially since like yeah, I just I'm trying to
picture like leaving my desk twice a day period. Like
(38:14):
I'm like, I'm not saying that they have me shackled
up over here or anything, but like, certainly I spend
most of my day just hunching further and further into
my keyboard and to get up and talk and talk
to people. Yeah, we tried that briefly in our office
like several years ago, once on Friday, and it fell
apart in like two weeks. Like, no, we don't have
(38:35):
time for this, but we could make that. We could
delicious pastry time. Oh my gosh, I would be in
some serious trouble. I have to buy some new wardrobe.
And a lot of people wrote in from Sweden. Um,
I was telling you about this lord, I think he
said you've probably seen it, but it was a viral
video about Fika. It's like a video and it's a delight.
(38:57):
I highly recommend. Yeah. Yes, yes, it's spelled f I
k A. That was not clear. Yeah, Well, thanks to
those two listeners for writing in. If you would like
to write to us, we would love to hear from you.
You can email us at hello at sabor pod dot com,
or you can find us on social media. We are
on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at savor pod and yes,
(39:20):
we do hope to hear from you. Savor is a
production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thank you as always to our super
producers Dylan Bagon and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio
and Stuff Media. I'm Annies and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and
today we're talking about pad tie. Yes, I had a
craving from the just start of the idea. Yes, oh yeah,
the second that we like put it down in the sheet,
right up until now. It's still happening. I just ate
like two giant handfuls of honey roasted sunflower seeds. Not
(00:30):
that that has anything to do with pad tie, but
I was just like nut flavor, nut flavor and savory
kind of sweet. I just need something, I need something. Well.
I appreciate that, Lauren, but I don't think that counts.
It doesn't. It doesn't. Think we might just have to
get some pad time. I've ordered pad tie no less
than two times since Sweet started idea this process. I've
(00:54):
been moving, I'm moving in. I have it on my
calendar sometime this week get pad ti uh um, yeah,
because I've been on a pretty big pad tied kick lately.
Um And it's part of my ramen for all the time. Craving,
I guess like noodles and kind of Asian flavors. I
don't know what's happening, but those other things don't deliver late,
(01:14):
but padi does, so that is key for me. Yes,
I it is one of my favorite dishes. And okay, so,
my my grandmother loved Thai restaurants and at her favorite,
which was this little place run by the sweet couple
who was about her age. Um, we would always order
(01:36):
meet crub for an appetizer, which is this like, um,
a crispy fried noodle dish. Um. It's really light and
airy and sweet and savory. Um. And then would each
get our own plate of pad tie. We could not
share one because hers was was zero spice, totally mild,
and mine was like three star spice, pretty spicy. Um.
(01:59):
And yeah, just one of my very favorite comfort foods. Um.
And it is totally the first thing that I order
at Thai restaurants that I haven't been to yet, just
to like get the lay at the land tested out. Yeah, totally, okay, Yeah,
I am. I remember the first time I had pet
tie to to my shame, I suppose, but I was
with my mom at in college as the first time
(02:22):
I am, and we went to a chain which I
will not name, but probably did not have a good
representation a pet tie. It was still good because I
mean noodlesodles, stir fried noodles. Yeah, but since then, I
think I had pet tie maybe a couple of weeks
before we did. We decided to do this and my
friend and I she also can't take any spice, so
(02:43):
I went with the three spices and she got the
nose spice and we compared because we were like, how
accurate is this spice system? Like what I mean? Yeah,
I was definitely spicier. I don't know if it was
three pepper spicier, but it was spicier. I do always
wonder about that. I feel like at a certain point
it's like it's like Ladies clothing sizes. It's like those
those words and numbers don't mean anything, right, Why even
(03:07):
have the mom there? We should do a savor investigation
the pepper rating system. Look for that in an upcoming episode.
I didn't want to say before we get into our
main question. Our first question, um, if you search pat tie,
at least my search results. One of the first suggested
search results was, um, why is pad tie so popular?
(03:29):
So we are not the only ones? Yeah, like pat
tie or there's some people who think it's heck and overrated.
Oh we'll fight you, we will. We probably won't work
pretty nice, but anyway, okay, our question pad tie? What
(03:50):
is well? Pat tie or pat tie um p h
A t tie, which is the official romanization, is a
noodle dish consisting of kind of meat um skinny flat
rice noodles, eggs, and a protein like like shrimp, pork,
chicken and or tofu stir fried together with seasonings and sauce.
The pad part means stir fried. Those seasonings are often
(04:13):
dried shrimps, baked tofu, preserved radish and fresh garlic. And
these sauce is made from tamarin paste or juice, palm
sugar fish sauce and a rice vinegar and or lime juice.
And then the whole thing, uh yeah, it's garnished with
like chopped peanuts and green onions and fresh bean sprouts
and a lime wedge. Chili powder can be added to taste,
(04:34):
and you have when you when you stir fry this
altogether that the noodles soak up the pan sauce and
the eggs kind of partially fry and partially scramble, and
the whole thing comes together as this amalgam of all
of the flavors and textures. You've got sweet and sour
and savory and salty, possibly spicy, with a tender noodles
and chewy protein and crunchy sprouts and peanuts. Um. It's
(04:57):
served hot, fresh out of a single serving pan. Very important.
And it is, as we have been talking about, immensely cravable,
um and also immensely adaptable because every cookoo makes it
has their take, their perfect balance of all of those
flavors and textures. Um. I am still chasing that first
pad tie, still have a favorite. No one else makes
(05:19):
it good enough. Uh Like I like my noodles chewier
than than soft, and like a lot of tamarind and
dried shrimp flavor. And the protein has to be pork um,
though we would sometimes get pork and shrimp because we
we're the worst to But yeah, you can. You can
cook it with all kinds of additions, add all kinds
(05:41):
of garnishes. Um. I have picked up the notion from
reading Bangkok chefs recipes that there is a distinct sensibility
about what is and is not okay to add, Like
pure ad chilis is okay, but chili paste is cheating.
Um line either definitely goes in the sauce or is
deaf atly only a garnish. Okay, Um, Chopped shallots are good,
(06:04):
but onions are weird. UM garnishing with a tart fruit
like mango is great, but American FUSIONI ingredients like sliced
sweet peppers is a real head scratcher. And speaking of
fusion E, additions like peanut butter or soy sauce or
curry powder or sesame oil are just not nope, super
(06:24):
nope for you or for for for for humans that
have a larger opinion about it than I do, Like I,
I agree from reading what they have said and comparing
that to my sense memories of different ways that I've had,
PAD tie that that the version that they seem to
(06:47):
be espousing is a version that I enjoy more. But
I don't have a strong opinion about it. But you
know that I always love a strong opinion. So yeah, yeah,
pretty great, pretty wonderful. Um pat tis usually starved as
an entree for lunch or dinner. I understand that in
Thailand the locals mostly get it from street vendors. Is
like a quick lunch, but it's serving restaurants around the
(07:09):
world and US old prepackaged as like a frozen meal
or um or ramen kind of situation. You can certainly
also cook it from scratch at home, and if you
want to do so, there are as I kind of
just alluded to, um, a lot of recipes out there. Um,
but I would say that there are three secrets in
(07:30):
heavy scare quotes, and those seem to be simmering your
sauce lightly to make sure it's real good and combined.
Don't just start. You really need to get the palm
sugar in there. You soak your noodles in cold water
for half an hour before you start, until they're pliable
enough to wrap around your finger, um like a hard
al dante. Yeah and uh yeah, And then having all
(07:51):
of your other ingredients and steps planned and prepared before
you start is critical because, as with any stir fry,
things go real quick once they start to go. I
also think it's considered proper to have out dishes of
extra sugar and fish sauce and chili flakes that everyone
can seas and to taste. This is making me nervous,
I you know. Uh, but that being said, like Okay,
(08:17):
so so to so two things like, like, A, here's
the part where I'm like checking myself and trying to
remember that not everyone grew up with this dish or
in areas lucky enough to have thriving immigrant populations who
bring so much to the community of particular interest right
now their food. Um. So, if you don't have a
market the imports from Thailand or other Southeast Asian countries,
(08:38):
lots of big groceries these days do have Asian sections
in their international aisles where you can sometimes find stuff
like fish sauce and dried shrimp and proper noodles. Um.
If not, you can definitely find them online. Or this
brings me to the second thing. Uh, you know, cook
your own take to your own taste with what you
like and can find eat food that you like eating. Yeah,
(09:02):
but I will say that tracking down those ingredients is
super worthwhile because like fish sauce, it's this salted, fermented
preparation of fish that over the course of a couple
of years becomes this amazingly flavorful, funky sweet, salty, savory brine.
And tamarind is this fantastic fruit that's us so tart
and just a little sweet and has this like weird
(09:23):
rich savory edge to it, and dried shrimp are just
little umami bombs. And palm sugar is collected as a
sap from date palm trees and it tastes like less
sweet and more rich than refined sugar. All great things
future episodes, all yes, um but for for our purposes here,
I'll just say, yeah, I love this because I actually
(09:45):
don't have that much experience with Badi until semi recently,
So I love that you're like this part and this
part and this is here too. It's wonderful. It is
it is I know, Oh my gosh, I definitely didn't
there's a Thai restaurant near now, but there was where
(10:08):
I was growing up. But funnily enough, my mom and
I went to that die restaurant over the Thanksgiving break
and we got fun because she never had fun. Okay, well,
wouldn't be my first at a tire restaurant, but while
we were looking for fusspecifically, but that was the only
(10:28):
place that had fun because there's no any delicious. It
was delicious, Yeah, it was, it was. I always forget
that is a nice thing about smaller towns. When you're like, oh,
eight dollar bowl and it comes out and it's a
norm it's like the size of your head. Yeah, And
I said that would be like a little yeah, like
(10:49):
an appetizer size bowl. Actually it was pretty well priced.
But anyway, we're not talking about that today. No, not
not today. What about some nutrition, y'all? Uh. I feel
like that's how I beget a lot of my nutritions. Yeah,
but it's a noodle stir fry, you know, like you've
got a lot of carbs. Depending on the cook it
(11:09):
can involve a lot of oil for the frying. Um.
Fast food versions often have a whole lot of salt too.
And it's not that any of those things are necessarily bad,
like you need all of them in order to live, um.
But but just you know, like in balance with protein
and veg for fiber and vitamins and minerals and pad
tide does tend to be over balanced on the carbs
(11:31):
and fat end like it might like it'll fill you up,
but it might not keep you going for that long, um,
depending on how much protein you've got in there. But yeah,
I'd say it's kind of in the treat category. Um.
And you know, as always to watch your serving sizes,
and that if you want to make a meal with
it a little bit healthier, add like a vegetable side
dish or or or aptizer salad. Yeah, putting a real
(11:54):
cramping mustyle orum, sorry about it, It's okay. Yeah. Yeah.
I did see a lot of articles that I did
not read because I didn't want to know. But it
was like fast food patchie, worse for you than McDonald's
question mark. I'm like, leave me alone. But that doesn't
seem to have stopped pet tis popularity. Oh goodness, not
(12:16):
at all. Yes, um, As I was saying at the
top that Google search, where I just put in pad
thaie it returned one inten million results. Yeah, I read
in some places that that number was even bigger. This
was my specific experience, okay, yes, um. Here in the US,
some food critics like you, Lauren, use it as a
dish to measure new Thai restaurants. According to Nick se Sawat,
(12:41):
a native of Thailand who is in charge of a
large Thai restaurant in Washington, d C. Quote, whenever we
tried Thai food, we tried pat Thai first, because that
is a way to judge how good a restaurant is
that's true all over the world except in Thailand. That's because,
in his mind, Thai street vendors have perfected pat tie,
and restaurants don't eve and try to compete unless they
(13:01):
are targeting tourists specifically. Yeah. Nick gave that quote to
one Alexandra Greeley, writing for Gastronomica that the Journal of
Critical Food Studies and oh it's a great article. It's
called finding pad Tie was super useful. Here go check
it out if you want any more. Yes, so helpful.
In a Facebook poll of thirty five thousand people around
(13:24):
the world, they named the world's best foods. I went
through all of them and I was like, yeah, I
like that, Yeah, I like that. But pad ti came
in fifth of the world's best foods. Yeah, that's wonderful. Um,
And I found an article that claimed pad tie was
the best dish, not a good dish, the best dish
to eat before a race, and thank you for that.
(13:45):
Excuse to try that out, even though it could be disastrous.
Hard to say, Yeah, I have to be a smaller portion. Okay, Yeah,
I've heard a lot about pre race food and how
critical from me? Probably, Yeah, that's true, but other runners
as well, like you are not the only one who
says that this is an important thing. It's a huge concern.
(14:07):
Things can go horribly all right, if you make the
wrong decision. We won't get into that now. The many
reasons I don't understand marathons, but you keep doing. You know,
it's kind of a fun experiment because you're like, wow, body,
what is this? What are you doing to me right now?
Trying to shut me down? But I won't anyway. Um
(14:30):
Tie kitchen dot Org reported in two thousand seven that
at least eleven thousand, six hundred restaurants around the world
offer pat tie on their menus. The National Food Institute's
deputy director estimated that number would jump to over twenty
thousand by two thousand eight. Huh, that is a massive jump.
They're probably working up two different numbers. I don't know.
(14:51):
I couldn't. I couldn't find any modern numbers. I looked. Yeah,
yeah either. According to Vice, they are about five thousand
two tie rest staurants in the United States as compared
to the population of Thai Americans. This is a relatively
high number, and this is in part due to gastro
diplomacy on Thailand's part, similar to what we talked about
(15:12):
in our kim Chi episode. Gastro diplomacy is something government's
due to increase soft power and tourism, and a little
bit more on that in a history portion. While for
a lot of us, Pad Thai is the quint essential
Thai dish, it most likely didn't come from Thailand. The
Foreign Minister at the Royal Thai Embassy in Washington, d C.
(15:33):
Tomahala daryan Ying claimed that Thai food is generally Indo
Chinese in origin, which I guess brings us to some history.
It does, but first it brings us to a quick
break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back,
(15:55):
Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. And disclaimer before we start,
we did our best to look up pronunciations. Oh yes,
neither of us speak tie and we we try, we do.
Uh and you know, apologies in advance for I'm sure
we will not get some of them correct. Yeah if
(16:17):
we if we get something wrong. Um, and you have
a pronunciation guide for us, we would love we would
love to hear it. We always love learning these things.
And um, yes, yes and disclaimer number two. The history
on this one is a bit twisty and confusing. It
is very fascinating. Oh yes, gosh, but a bit messy.
(16:40):
So all right, those disclaimers out of the way. Yes,
it turns out pats I probably originally came from China.
The dishes full name pat Tie is suggestive of the past,
since quatio is Chinese for rice noodles, and then you've
got pad meaning stair, fried and tie meeting in the
(17:01):
Thai style exactly. Early settlers from southern China most likely
brought their fried rice and noodle dishes and cooking styles
with them, and a lot of historians do place the
origins of both stir frying and noodles in China. The
cooked meats and vegetables in Pad Thai resemble early dishes
out of the Guangdong province and dishes prepared by the
Cantonese people. Some historians think that contemporary Thai people's ancestors,
(17:25):
who were called the Diet People, migrated from southern China
around the tenth century. See there are certainly a lot
of similarities when it comes to things like language, dress,
and cooking styles. To this day, the Diet People make
up China's largest ethnic minority, and not that folks weren't
there beforehand. Like a one archaeological site in Thailand, Bantyang
(17:46):
has evidence of the oldest known agrarian society in the region,
with a rice patties and domesticated farm animals and ceramic
and bronze manufacture dating back to one thousand, four b C.
So Yes, but there are a lot of culinary influences
in traditional Thai cuisine UM Sechuan and other especially Southern
(18:10):
Chinese styles of cooking UM, Indian Buddhist styles, Malaysian styles,
UM and yeah. Ingredients used in different regions of what
is now Thailand reflect the differing climates and tastes from
those places. Uh. Europeans discovered Southeast Asia in the seventeen hundreds,
and traders and explorers and colonizers and straight up pillagers
(18:32):
began moving through the region around that time. UM. There
were a few kings of what's now Thailand ish over
the centuries who embraced some aspects of these new cultures
and technologies and weapons and foods that were brought through.
One king in the sixteen eighties apparently loved French cheese
and wine UM and also a few culinary influences from
(18:53):
the Portuguese and Dutch creept in, but for the most part,
the kingdoms of what is now Thailand were kept fairly
insular for a few hundred years after that contact. And
I can't argue with him with that one guy about
the French cheese and wine. Yeah it's pretty okay. I
love that too, but yeah, fairly insular until one king.
(19:17):
I think I'm saying that right. I'm so sorry. Uh.
In the eighteen fifties and sixties, Um he is the
dude that the titular king and the king and I
is loosely based on Um. There are real diaries from
a real teacher who was in then Ziam at the time,
and from that there was a fictionalized novel that was written,
(19:39):
and from that Rogers at Hammerstein vaguely based their musical.
But anyway, King Um he opened up his kingdom to
world trade, and Um his son after him, would very
carefully and diplomatically go further because Thailand is the only
(20:01):
place in that area that was never colonized. And and
they did this by seeding territory to a few European powers,
playing them off of each other the entire time. Um
and he and his court and by extent his people
adopted some looser Western social practices during his rule up
until nineteen ten. Yes, and this brings us to Night
(20:25):
and Thailand's Prime Minister People so Grom. Six years earlier,
he was an officer and significant figure in a military
coup that removed absolute power from the monarchy of Thailand.
He went on to quash royalist rebellion a year later
as essentially the Minister of Defense, and from there rose
up to Prime Minister. The Prime Minister, who went by
(20:49):
several names apparently filled Martial Pollock. People so Gram or
Fibbin in the West, really wanted to modernize Thailand and
to some extent where stradize it along with that, all
the while creating something specifically that the world would recognize
as Tie, creating a brand, Yes, exactly, um and sometimes
(21:10):
he did this through brutal methods. Um. Despite being surrounded
by French and British colonies, Thailand was never colonized and
the country was fairly ethnically diverse, and so to keep
the country together and free of foreign powers, Fibbin really
wanted to consolidate a strong national identity in a public
ninety one address, he said, in an effort to build
(21:32):
a nation with a firm and everlasting foundation, the government
is forced to reform and reconstruct the various aspects of society,
especially its culture. In a cabinet meeting, he explained, we
must be as cultured as other nations, otherwise no country
will come to contact us, or if they come, they
come as superiors. Thailand would be helpless and soon become colonized.
(21:54):
But if we were highly cultured, we would be able
to uphold our integrity, independence and keep everything to selves.
So you could probably tell from that there's some he
went to school in Europe, I believe, so there was
some European superiority that he really took to heart. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(22:14):
very very very internalized. Yes. Um. He passed twelve cultural mandates.
As a part of these initiatives, the Primister changed the
name of the country from Siam to Thailand in ninety nine.
As a part of this westernization, local dialects and languages
were banned from schools and the curriculum was updated to
focus on unifying history of Thailand. A new national greeting
(22:38):
was introduced and promoted decisions around things ranging from architecture
and Buddhist clergy appointments were transferred to the capital. The
Islamic courts of Thailand's Malay minority were closed. Ethnic Chinese
were unceremoniously removed from positions of power across the country.
Fibbin pushed European stout clothing and hatwear. He advised on
(23:00):
things like proper sleeping methods, an appropriate amount to contact relatives.
He really cultivated a cult of personality. His portrait was
placed across the country and his birthday became a national holiday.
Another part of this was creating a national dish pad
tie from Penny van Estric's book Materializing Thailand quote. Part
(23:24):
of Fibbins nation building strategy was to develop Thaie nous
and impose a Thie great tradition to demonstrate the strength
and unity of the Thai nation. His series of decrees
from nine to nineteen forty two suggested what could be
done to strengthen the Thaie economy, to instill national image
and pride, and to improve the national diet. Popularizing a
(23:45):
noodle dish was one means to that end, and his
son later said pad CMEs didn't have the same ring
to it as pad tie I guess that's a fun thing. Um.
The iteration of pad die that the government popularized was
then previous versions, primarily in the type of noodle used
rice noodles versus imported wheat noodles, but also the addition
(24:07):
of tie chilis, tamarind and palm sugar, and the use
of shrimp over pork. Fibin wanted to differentiate this dish
from Chinese noodle dishes. In van Estrix estimation, that makes
pad tie a very specific invention. According to Nitya people
Somerom Graham, the former US Ambassador from Thailand and Minister
(24:27):
of Foreign Affairs, and phibbins Son, Fibbin was attempting to
help Thaie farmers. He tied the eating of pad tie
to helping the Tie people, specifically the farmers, the Thaie economy,
and basically all of that to being patriotic. By eating this,
you're being patriotic. Yeah, yeah uh. He recalls eating it
in his household, but does not remember who invented it.
(24:48):
Some sources report the recipe as a result of a
recipe contest. Yeah, but I could not find any sources
to verify that. It is repeated in a lot of places.
But nothing super like. Yeah, um, people, some Grandma does
believe that the Thai government popularized this dish in part
because they believed, or at least they advertised, that it
(25:09):
would be a nutritious part of the Tide diet, especially
compared with other staples of the time like rice served
with salt, greens, and chili paste. Compared to that dish,
pad Tide more protein and in general more vegetables, and
the noodles were both cheap and filling. Bibbins said, I
want everyone to eat noodles. Noodles are healthy and have
a variety of taste from sour to salty to sweet.
(25:30):
Noodles can be made in Thailand, are convenient to make,
and have excellent taste. If every tie person ate a
bowl of noodles every day, then every day eighteen million
bowls of noodles will be consumed, equal to ninety millions
of tongue or nine hundred thousand bots. That's a lot
of money cycling through the economy, which will then go
to farmers and fishermen. Wow, yeah, I guess when you
(25:51):
put it that way. Yeah, sure, people. Some Grahama went
on to say, and that two has a nine Gastronomica interview.
By the way he was interviewed in that article, we
um that Fibbin used the dish to promote sanitary cooking
and food during massive flooding in Thailand when a lot
of disease was rampant. World War two was also going
(26:11):
on at this time, um resulting in a shortage not
of rice noodles, but of rice. The government did their
best to make things easy for the Thai people to
adopt pad tie, like providing recipe cards across the country,
and this was actually pretty new for Thailand at the time.
Folks typically didn't follow codified recipes, though the codified recipe
for a pet tie did leave a lot of room
(26:32):
for interpretation experimentation. Officials also strongly advised that Bangkok street
vendors with wheeled noodle carts start making the dish, and
in some accounts, the government gave vendors promising to serve
pad tie these carts for free. Yeah, because it was
so readily and cheaply available, pad tie became a super
convenient food, in the words of Fibbins Sun, Thailand's first
(26:55):
fast food. Chinese vendors were not allowed to sell quote
foreign foods, and a campaign called Noodle is Your Lunch
was launched and a song was even written, Noodle is
Your Lunch. Yes, I will not sing it, but I
really wish sighted do. Do you know the melody? No?
I did try to find it and if anyone has
like a link or something to do it, I would
(27:16):
love to hear it. It goes. Noodles, noodles, noodles. Thai
vegetables are wealth in the ground. You can find it anywhere.
Keep buying and selling as Thai people always help each other.
Noodles noodles, Can I try some? I'd like some. Try
noodles noodles. Give me Somehow about some wet thie noodles?
So clean, delicious and beautiful noodles noodles? Come try and
you'll love it. Ties help ties and Thailand will develop
(27:39):
with rough han in Yam. I probably butchered that, but
I tried, you did? I did? I like that? I
feel like it probably does have a really catchy tune
based on it sounds like it based on the rhythm.
Fippin was forced out of office as World War Two
came to an end, though he returned to power from
nine fifty seven, but Patti was there to stay. Yeah.
(28:04):
In English, a few books and other printed materials mentioned
pad Tie in that mid to late fifties kind of era,
but the dish didn't really enter the English speaking public
consciousness until the nineteen eighties, as tourism to Thailand started booming. Yes,
and that brings us to gastro diplomacy that we mentioned earlier.
(28:24):
As a part of this gastro diplomacy, the Thai government
founded the Global Thai Restaurant Company Ltd. In two thousand
one with the goal of opening three thousand Thai restaurants
around the world, and this was a plan at least
a decade in the making. Chef were trained to go
abroad and cook Thai foods at these restaurants. According to
(28:45):
Thailand's Deputy Commerce Minister at the time, the ultimate goal
of the Global Thai Restaurant Company Ltd Was to become
quote like the McDonald's of Thai food. They didn't quite
pull that off, but they succeeded in increasing the number
of Thai restaurants around in the world. Thailand's Department of
Export Promotion came up with three tiers of restaurant plans
(29:05):
to make it easy so Basically you could be like,
I want to do a fancy one, middle of the
road one are kind of a cheaper one, um. And
they came with menu items and notes on aesthetics already
in there, just a complete plan. The three types were
called Elephant Jump, Cool Basil, and Golden Leaf. The Export
Import Bank of Thailand provided incentives for Thai people considering
(29:28):
opening restaurants abroad by offering loans. The government even established
a specialized Thai chef's visa in New Zealand. I even
check it's still there, or at least the web page
was still there. Um. In fourteen, Thai restaurants in the
US were awarded Thai Select Certificates to indicate authenticity. These
(29:49):
certificates are given out by the Thai Ministry of Commerce. Huh.
I never knew about this, and I feel like it
explains a lot about a lot of the Tai strands
I've been to in like very different areas of the
United States. I'm gonna I'm definitely gonna see. Not that
it will really as long as the food is good,
I'm fine, but I am to see if I see
(30:11):
the certificate next time I go. Yeah, because I saw
pictures of it. It kind of looks like a health
apartment sort of much less going on than that, but
you know, just a piece of paper and frame. Um, yeah,
there's this a whole story. I had no idea, right, yeah,
I'm like, this delicious thing that I love was made
(30:33):
to be loved. Yes, yes, um yeah, I forgot to
ask have you ever made it? Uh? No? Um. I
think that I thought about making it really hard one
time and then looked at what was involved, and then
when I know, yeah, yeah, I don't know why, but
(30:58):
noodle dishes make me nervous. Yeah, stir frying makes me nervous.
I've had I've had bad stir fries happen where the
eggs never really scrambled and then it got soupy and
weird and then it wasn't it was bad. It was bad. Um.
And yeah, the I think the last time that I
thought about it, it was before I had access to
(31:22):
like a car to get me to places that had
the ingredients that I would make, and I was like,
I'm not putting peanut butter in my I draw the
line there. So yeah, yeah, because yeah, there's it's funny,
like there are so many pro offered substitutions for different things,
(31:42):
like if you can't find palm sugar, like some people
say that maple syrup is the closest that we get
in America to a similar product in terms of taste.
And yeah, they're the people rail against this rail rail,
I tell you. Um, but yeah, maybe maybe I'll try again. Yeah,
(32:05):
maybe I'll just make this happen. I could be your
assistant too, nervous. Who did it with the pride chicken?
Who's the assistant and who's the assistant? Though maybe we're
both assistants. I think that's it. Yeah, Well, all I
know is pat has to happen in my future. I
do have where I live, no joke. At the one
(32:26):
of the corners, the biggest like intersections near me, there
are four Thai restaurants, but right next to oh wow,
there are that's right. Yeah, I remember the two, but
I always forget about the other two. Yeah, well what
there used to be three, but now one of them split.
And it's really funny because it's the same restaurant, but
there has different names and different vi like aesthetics, the
(32:47):
menus the same. And my friend totally felt for that trick.
She's like that one looks way cooler than this. I
was like, oh my god, it's the same restaurant. That's great.
They're doing some experiments of their own. That makes me happy,
and it's strange, nerve racked way. It made me laugh.
It made me laugh because I was like, I'm pretty
sure this is over by the same people. It definitely is.
(33:09):
I think they're just a testing Yeah. Well, hey, well
hopefully we'll get some fantizing gosh, yes, so so hopefully
so much. Um, I need to make a track over
to my favorite place in town, Little Bangkok h Bridge. Yeah, yes,
we our office used to be near there, and there
weren't that many benefits to that office, but that was
(33:30):
that was one of them Atlanta humans. If you haven't
been a Little Bangkok off of Cheshire Bridge, please go
order the meet crob and the Tay Coconut soup and
the pad tie and I mean whatever else you want, Like,
I can't tell you otherwise you're doing it wrong. Uh. Anyway,
(33:50):
we do have a little bit more for you, but
first we've got one more quick break for a wood
from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with listener male. I'm feeling
(34:12):
right now. Yeah. Dominique wrote Hello from French Canada and
thank you for your wonderful cinnamon bun episode. I'm writing
to you to let you in on a French Canadian secret.
They are called pet the sore. Sorry, there is no
phonetic equivalent to an English try you sound. I did
(34:34):
try that. The sara means drumroll please non spun sparts.
These tasty pastries were commonly made with pie dough scraps,
rolled with brown sugar and cooked inverted in a glaze,
squished together in a pan. Though when I was young
in the nineties not too long ago, all cinnamon buns,
even the American style, were referred to as pet. It's
(34:57):
not that the pet is a hominem where it came
from being a nun's pet, like teacher's pet in a
bilingual environment. Still, nun's farts is pretty funny. And yes,
I laughed aloud when I read it. That is so delightful.
Thank you, wonderful. You say anything in French and it
just sounds gorgeous and sophisticated. What was that you were saying?
(35:19):
It sounds so lovely. Oh, it means nuns farts. It
means nun's farts. That's what it means. I will take one.
I'll take a pan heck, Emma wrote, and she included
in this a few Swedish words which I'm not going
to attempt to pronounce because I'm tired today, y'all. But okay,
Emma wrote, I just listened to your Cinnamon Role episode
(35:41):
and so it enjoyed it. Thank you, partly because it
was a great episode and partly because I'm Swedish. Let
me tell you, fika is serious business over here. Someone
goes as far as saying it's cornerstone of the Swedish culture. Well,
I may not go as far. I do think it's
very enjoyable and poses a serious threat to my race line.
Many offices have two fikas a day, one in the
(36:03):
morning around ten am and one in the afternoon around
three to three thirty pm. It's the one in the
afternoon that counts the most because it's more likely to
include sweet things. Some offices have a rotating schedule for
who is said to bring treats once a week, but
Vika takes place every day and there are usually some
cookies lying around. I myself have been the baker of
said treats on many occasions for my parents throughout high
(36:24):
school and more recently during visits on break from university,
and used it as an opportunity to test new recipes.
It turned into such a thing in my dad's office
they were disappointed if I ever dared repeat a cookie
or kke recipe as an indication of how important fika
is here, the household staple cookbook for cookies called Seven
Kinds of Cookies had its one edition published in the
(36:48):
first ever was published in I'm pretty sure I've seen
an English version in bookstores here as well. To satiate
curious tourists whole that a lot of additions in like
six okay ship, I'm coming back on the topic of
cinnamon buns. They are facing some stiff competition here nowadays
from the cardamom bun. The latter bun is usually made
(37:11):
with the same yeasted dough, but with more cardamom in
it and a feeling that's either butter, sugar and cardamom
or an almond paste cardamom filling my preferred option. According
to my mom. It's a true sign of being an
adult when you go from preferring the cinnamon version to
the cardamom version. Swedish Fabric Bakery recently opened up a
shop in New York City on West fourteenth Street, and
(37:32):
they have excellent versions of both. Sorry for the long email,
but I'm a Swede and Fika a way of life
that is so cool to get, Like that is such
a bigger deal than what I was imagining when I
was reading about it. Oh no, I don't know. I
kind of got vibes of this, like it was like, no, seriously,
and then we go take a break and we eat
something and we have a coffee. And but twice a
(37:54):
day is I don't think I read twice a day. Yeah,
so that's really fun. Yeah, that's I love it. I
love the pastry, like at the afternoon one is where
the sweets are going to be, right, yeah, oh my gosh.
And especially since like yeah, I just I'm trying to
picture like leaving my desk twice a day period. Like
(38:14):
I'm like, I'm not saying that they have me shackled
up over here or anything, but like, certainly I spend
most of my day just hunching further and further into
my keyboard and to get up and talk and talk
to people. Yeah, we tried that briefly in our office
like several years ago, once on Friday, and it fell
apart in like two weeks. Like, no, we don't have
(38:35):
time for this, but we could make that. We could
delicious pastry time. Oh my gosh, I would be in
some serious trouble. I have to buy some new wardrobe.
And a lot of people wrote in from Sweden. Um,
I was telling you about this lord, I think he
said you've probably seen it, but it was a viral
video about Fika. It's like a video and it's a delight.
(38:57):
I highly recommend. Yeah. Yes, yes, it's spelled f I
k A. That was not clear. Yeah, Well, thanks to
those two listeners for writing in. If you would like
to write to us, we would love to hear from you.
You can email us at hello at sabor pod dot com,
or you can find us on social media. We are
on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at savor pod and yes,
(39:20):
we do hope to hear from you. Savor is a
production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media. For more
podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit the i
heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thank you as always to our super
producers Dylan Bagon and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
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