February 5, 2025 • 27 mins
This fresh, springy cheese sears instead of melting, meaning it works like other proteins in many preparations. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of paneer.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
and I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Bubble Bum, and today we have an episode for you
about Panier.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I love Premiere. Was there any particular reason this
was on your mind, Lauren, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I think this was one of the ones that it's
just been on the list forever, and I was like,
maybe today is the day for Preenier.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Let's go always the day for panieer.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh my opinion so delicious, it's so good. I don't
have any right now to obtain some. I just had
someone like Saturday. But now I'm like, why didn't I
have more?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I was I was bragging to Lauren before this. I
made a Premier dish recently, so I have some, and
after this that's going to be my lunch. And I'm
very excited. I'm excited for you and only a little
bit mad. Oh my gosh, she'd be mad. I would
be mad. I got really entrepreneur a couple of years
ago because my little brother is vegetarian, and so he
(01:11):
he would come over like once a month and we
would do video game nights and we would get a
lot of Indian food and I just became so I
loved peer Yeah, and I started to find it. I
started to look for it in grocery stores. It's not
super easy to find at walkable grocery stores for me,
which people who know me, I like to walk everywhere.
(01:33):
And in fact, one time I bought it at my
local grocery store and the woman who was checking me
out was from India and she was like, no, you
should just make it. You should just make it. Why
are you by? Why are you doing this? But I
I love it. I usually fried up and I make
a Pollack prenier or sag preneur, that's my favorite. But
this time I have Teaka Masala and it's it's pretty
(01:55):
good and I love the we'll talk about it more later,
but I love the texture and how it absorbs flavors
but has a different flavor in the center. Yes, yes, no,
I love this. You've clearly given it some thought. Yeah,
this was a nice It was a nice episode to
(02:17):
do where I had it before, And so I was
thinking while I was eating it, like what is it
I love about this? So I did put some thought
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I mean thought into cheese is something that we both
do a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So could be an alternate title for this show should
be it should.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Be Oh well, you can see our previous episodes on
Tika Masala Ghi maybe Masala Chai for a little bit
more about the dairy industry and some of the foods
from this area.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, but I guess that brings us to our question. Panier.
What is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Panier is a type of fresh cheese made from buffalo
or cow milk, usually that's set with acid and pressed
into slabs that can range from like soft and spongy
to firm and bouncy, but will always be like a bright,
creamy white in color and mild and like milky, nutty
sweet in flavor with just a little bit of tartness.
(03:27):
Panier does not melt easily, so a block of it
or or chunks of it can be cooked the way
that you would cook like meat or firm tofu bybe searring,
sauteg grilling, frying. It can be marinated or spice coated.
It's often served as the protein component in like savory
snacks or vegetable dishes, in stews or sauces, or on skewers,
(03:49):
as a filling in breads and fried snacks, but it
can be used in sweet dishes too, like puddings or cheesecakes.
It's it's just real nice because it's it's a very
gentle flavor and a slightly chewy texture that's a great
base for strong flavors and a good contrast to other textures.
It's just so satisfying. It's like it's like sinking down
(04:13):
into a really good pillow or couch. Mm hmmm, yes,
a good couch.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, and like every time you forget how amazing this
couch is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, I'm like furniture shopping right now. So this is
a thing that this is another thing that's very present
in my mind.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Okay, So buffalo milk is sort of preferred for making
paneer because it contains more fat and protein and calcium
than cow milk, which helps with the texture and the flavor.
Also because buffalo are common in South Asia, which is
where paneer is from. But okay, cheese cheese one oh,
one yes is a way to collect and preserve the
(05:02):
nutritious fats and proteins and stuff that's in milk and
to make them extra tasty at the same time, and
luckily for us, that is relatively easy to do because
of the structure of milk. So milk is made up
of proteins and fats and water and some other smaller
bits of stuff like vitamins and minerals that are that
(05:24):
are dissolved in either the fats or the water, and
fats and water don't usually like to mix. The reason
that they are mixed together in milk is that milks
proteins like wrap themselves around little globs of fat and
then evenly disperse themselves through the water.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
They do this.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because they have a negative charge. So each little bundle
repels the other little bundles the way that magnets will
repel each other if you try to push two of
the same end together. Yeah, so all you have to
do to collect the fats and proteins in milk is
neutralized that charge, and then they'll start sticking together. And
(06:01):
you can do this by adding an acid of some kind.
In the case of peneir, you might add lactic acid
or citric acid, or at home, maybe a little bit
of like lemon or lime juice, and that will make
the fats and proteins clump up into curds and separate themselves.
Out from the water and stuff, which is the way
pineer is made by heating milk all the way up
(06:22):
to about like ninety degrees celsius that's one hundred and
ninety four fahrenheit, like near to boiling, and then reducing
the temperature a bit and adding an acid to spur coagulation.
The heat will help to get some of the way
proteins and the calcium phosphate that's in the way to
stick in with the curds. Normally they'd be washed out
with the way. Also that the combination of acid and
(06:44):
heat sets the proteins in the curds relatively firm, relatively
firmly in these bonds that will carry through to the
finished cheese and help with that texture. The curds are
then removed from the way and pressed into hoops with
cheese cloth, using some heavy weights to remove even more
of the way for a final texture that is yes
anywhere from soft to very firm. It's then packaged and
(07:06):
used fresh. Since it's not aged, it maintains that soft,
springy texture. That also means that it doesn't keep for
extremely long. It is pretty easy to make it home
from what I've read not tried it myself now, I
really want to. But these days there are all kinds
of pineer on the market, particularly around the Indian subcontinent,
made from buffalo cow soy, low fat milk, different flavorings
(07:31):
like spices or herbs or fruit juice, mixed in different
degrees of firmness. If you do buy some and you
find it's sort of stiff and rubbery like bouncy, yes,
rubbery is not what you're really looking for. The fix
for that is to, okay, two steps, a pan fry
it until it's nice and golden brown, and then soak
(07:51):
that fried Panier in water or like a water based
marinade for about half an hour. The frying will loosen
the matrix of proteins of of the cheese and allow
it to sponge up liquid, making it more tender. Yes, yes,
and he's just just shaking her head in like fond
(08:13):
remembrance of Panier's past.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Like literally last night.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But yeah, it is served in all dang kinds of
dishes because right, it holds up to heat so well,
and especially in vegetarian cuisines, because the texture is springing
and chewing and satisfying.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Indeed, well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You know, cheeses are concentrations of fats and proteins and milk,
so Panier has good amounts of those along with the
good smattering of micronutrients.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It will fill you up and help keep you going.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But you know, like I would watch your portion sizes
eat a vegetable.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I have to say, Panier is really filling. A lot
of times I get I see Panier and I'm like,
I'm gonna half of this night. Four meals later, I'm
like wow, like wow, yeah, it just it does fill
you up. Yeah, Well, we do have some numbers for
you a few.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Okay, So the global market for Panier is worth about
ten billion dollars a year and it is growing. About
seven percent of India's milk supply goes to making Panier.
And this is nothing to sneeze ahead, because India produces
more milk than any other country in the world over
one hundred and eighty million metric tons a year as
(09:36):
of twenty eighteen. That was like twenty two percent of
the world's supply of milk. Wow, that's like more than
the entirety of the European Union produced that year, and
a little bit more than half of that was buffalo milk.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, it's a bunch, bunch.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We have like a hypothetical world record. In twenty fourteen,
a chef and deli created what is very likely the
largest ever serving of panier tica, which is like marinated
pinier that's grilled in a tandor oven, often served on skewers.
So he had a custom mold made that could create
a seventy two kilo block of pinier, that is one
(10:26):
hundred and sixty pounds of pinier. He also had a
custom tandor made that is over a meter across, like
that's about four feet. It was fueled by fifty kilos
of charcoal, and he injected marinade into the block six
hours beforehand to really get it and get it in
(10:49):
there and then put it, put the whole block on
these huge skewers and grilled it and then cut it
into for serving some one thy, six hundred and fifty
bite sized piece.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Oh impressive it is.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I don't think that this was confirmed by any of
the world record governing bodies like Guinness, but I want
to give it to him. I think if yeah, if
I can be the authority here that's yeah, absolutely done.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
World record sounds great, but I'm into it. I think
this is fantastic, beautiful, beautiful. Well, the history of near
Is is a lot also.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
We can say, yes, yes it is, and we are
going to get into that as soon as we get
back from a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
We're back, Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, yes,
this one is complicated. It doesn't have as much information
around it as I would like, at least not that
I could find in English. There are a lot of
competing in some cases, very different theories behind the history here,
(12:19):
and a lot of it also has to do with
historians making their best guesses about what is Panier in
the historical record, and sometimes I would say making kind
of a judgment, like a judgment like a Some people
wouldn't agree that that is Panier, and other people are like, no,
that probably was.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
At least we can call we can call that Panier.
That's part of the history.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Sure, yeah. Yes. One theory about Peneer's origins is similar
to the one we tell in almost every Cheese episode
and relates to an early form of preneer sometime during
the thirteenth or fourteenth century, people on horseback carrying milk
and saddle bags made of animal bladder or raw hide,
jostled the liquid about, and that, combined with the heat,
(13:03):
resulted in some type of cheese. Standard disclaimer every time
we tell this story, there really is no evidence that
it's true. It makes sense, there's just nothing really concrete.
This would also call for the use of rennet from
the rawhide or whatever animal products, but nowadays paneera is vegetarian.
(13:25):
Most people think that if this is true, panier didn't
arrive in India till later. However, according to one source,
cheese making in parts of India goes back way further,
as far back as three thousand BCE. In order to
preserve milk, producers curdled it with different types of barks
and berries, maybe adding in yogurt in there. Certainly there
(13:48):
were probably other cheeses being made without the use of
acid in India far earlier. In Peneer's timeline, I read
buffalo milk was the original milk used, but other sources
content so mysteries history. Yep, all right, So there's that's
one theory. Another theory suggests that paneer was introduced to India,
(14:09):
or at least the technique of making a cheese like
peneer was introduced to India by the Portuguese in the
seventeenth century. They brought their fresh cheeses and method of
using acid in their cheese production, and a lot of
cultures do have some version of a similar type of cheese,
including in several historic nomadic cultures close to modern day India,
(14:31):
so it could have come from a lot of places.
Yet another theory claims that paneer may have been introduced
by Afghani and Persian people's. This is largely because the
word paneer is close to the generic word for cheese
in Persian. This would also have been around the sixteenth
(14:52):
or seventeenth century.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, mysteries, histories, whatever the case, Acid set cheeses
were definitely being mentioned in cookbooks from the McCall imperial
Kitchens by the sixteen hundreds or so.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So yes, and going back to the whole well what
do we count aspreneer thing? There are a couple of
earlier mentions of something that might be paneer in India.
There's something that mentions a quote solid mass made from
heated milk and curds that could have been pnier Ish
(15:29):
from some time between seventy five to three hundred CE. Okay,
whatever happened. Yeah, there were a lot of reasons why
paneer became a huge part of Indian cuisine. They had
buffalo and cattle and a lot of milk to use.
A substantial part of the population is was vegetarian, so
(15:49):
having a vegetarian source of protein was and is important.
Panier was introduced into all kinds of dishes, from traditional
ones to British influence ones because it holds up so
well and of sorts flavors so well. It's just a
great protein option for all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, and Yeah, colonization and specifically British rule around the
Indian subcontinent, you know, from the sixteen hundreds through the
nineteen forties spread elements of Indian cuisines like panier to
other places around the world, such as parts of China.
Panier is definitely a part of like Indo Chinese cuisines,
(16:29):
but there wasn't really a formalized dairy industry in India
until the nineteen hundreds. Starting with this push from British
colonists during World War One, and leading through what's called
Operation Flood in the nineteen seventies, which is what transformed
India into the largest dairy producer in the world. And
this is all super complicated. It's also important to remember
(16:53):
that India is like big and multicultural. But suffice it
to say that throughout the nineteen hundreds, the event bailability
of milk for products like paneer boomed. With that boom,
paneer also spread from being a mostly North Indian thing
to an ingredient that lots of other regional cuisines use
(17:13):
here in the United States, Indian cuisines were introduced along
with waves of immigration, mostly after nineteen sixty five, which
is when the super racist immigration policies of the nineteen
twenties were overturned thanks to the Civil Rights movement. You know,
amazing food is just one of the many cultural benefits
that we get from welcoming immigrants into our communities. Diversity
(17:34):
makes the world more delicious. And then in during the
nineteen nineties, a bunch of research in India led to
a fairly standard process for mechanizing and industrializing the production
of pineer, which has made it a mass marketed commercial product.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I should we should both try to make it
at home and see.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, oh yeah, see what our like local biome is doing.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
That'd be cool, okay, okay, okay. And it was really
interesting that it made total sense. But I found myself
reading these really in depth research papers from India that
were just trying to get to the bottom of everything
about nir and I'm trying to understand this graph that
I'm like, wow, I love that this is a graph
(18:27):
about cheese and I can't understand it at all. Oh wow,
I like it.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. This was This was a fun one
to read about. This was a hungry This was a
very hungry outline.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It was that's I made sure. A lot of times
I do the it's afterwards I'm like I have to
go get it. This time I was like, no, absolutely not,
although I usually always have. I'm gonna Pheneer around.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Oh really, wow, I love it. Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes, well I think that's
what we have to say about Preneer for now. But
if you have recipes, oh, send them in yeah, absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And uh yeah, we do already have some listener mail
for you, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with the snub oh springy, and then it's
like a hug. Yeah, it's lovely. We have two kind
of response messages from other listener mails that we have
(19:58):
read previously and both involved pets, and you know, we
love that. And it's been a long time since we've
mentioned this, but I think it was forever ago. We
used to joke, there's a pet tex you have to
send in a picture of your pet oh every time
you email, and a bunch of people have used that
(20:21):
term recently, and it's just it's brightened my day, and
during these stressful times, any brightening of the day is
really appreciated. So thank you so much. So first Trevor wrote,
and this is in response. We read Trevor's email about
his dog Farley, who chase deer to no avail. Was
(20:46):
not going to catch any deer. No more like friends
than any type of punt, so Trevor wrote, for what
it's worth, I heard the responding mail where the listener
thought the dog's name was Barley like the grain. It
is Farley, in honor of Chris Farley, the actor. The
breeder named him this because he was the chunkiest of
(21:09):
the pups. None of our pets have had food names
except my first cat. I tried to name Sushi that
it didn't stick and she became Yoshi. I guess technically
I did have a cat named Jasmine. I think of
that as a girl slash flower name rather than a
food stuff. I'll leave you with another of our pets
name origins. Our last dog's name was spot He was
(21:32):
a bikon. I don't know anything about dogs anyway, all
white dog. I always had to explain that Spot was
just his nickname. His full name was spot Less. Still
waiting for the Stuff D and D podcast. My pitch
for the title is stuff you should adventurer ooh, or
(21:56):
maybe just adventure stuff for short? Oh? Okay, I too,
Miss D and D. We we haven't gotten to played
in a long time, haven't We haven't. We're trying. We're
trying to get it back up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We we just need to like like schedule it. That's
I mean, you know, that's the curse of Yeah. Yeah,
that the true the true monster is scheduling.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yes, we are all busy people. But I do think
I don't think we could do a show. I think
we could do like a one shot podcast. I don't
think we could currently sustain. I would love to. I'm
not saying it's impossible. Uh, just obviously we have a
(22:41):
hard time scheduling, and.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, I truly have to be like a part of
our work day that we like carved out in order.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
To do it. Yeah, it's not it's possible. I'm not
saying no, I'm I'm just saying we would have to
plan we would have to plan it. Yeah, sure, yeah, yes,
I love I love all of that. Thank you, Thank
you for writing in.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
About your pets. I do love to spot the spotless dog.
That is that is that's really good. That's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And it's so funny when you ask someone like the
history of the name of their dog, and there's usually
like our pet, there's usually like a great story, even
if it's one sentence. You're just like, yeah, of course, okay.
My dog, my first dog, Dizzy was named after my
little body, and my family was angry because I got
(23:35):
to name her. I won the right to name her,
and I don't think anybody else was into it. Well,
that's sad for them. Yea, they grew on them. I
just think at first they were like are you sure,
like yes, absolutely, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Now, when you allow a child to name a pet,
you don't know what you're gonna get. That's yeah, yeah,
mm hmm, yeah, I love My kitten's name is Bruce.
And uh, to be fair, we thought she was a
dude cat. It's she doesn't know what gender constructs are,
so she doesn't really care one way or another. But
(24:16):
but we definitely named her Bruce because she was very
small and gray and bitie and we were like, and
I love Jaws. And on the set of the movie
film Jaws, the cast and crew named the mechanical shark
Bruce and it's it's a gray, bity thing.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And I was like, yeah, I think that's great. I
love that. See it's a fun every time you ask God. Yeah,
my mom's dog is adopted and she kept the name
that the dog has, but she has a whole like
theory behind it. What she thinks that we like. It's cute. Yeah, No,
(25:00):
I love it. I love it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Michelle wrote, thank you so so so much for reading
my email At the end of the Guava episode. I
was so excited when you read the last part about
my book and the website that I screamed out loud
several times. My kitty Vader was confused and concerned over
this behavior.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I just wanted to thank you, back to working on book.
Two cheers, and may you have nothing but kindness in
your lives. Pet tax attached my baby Vader, who is
a nine month old eleven pound house panther. And yes,
there is attached a photo of a black cat being
very cute. His eyes are really golden, and I want
(25:44):
to pet his cute face.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yes, and Vader, you know I love that day and
I'm already like, yep, block get yellowish.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah yeah, Vader, yeah yeah. I guess I was guessing
about about the again. The cat doesn't know what gender
construct is, so sorry if I but but apologies if
I used the wrong pronouns for Vader. We respect pronouns
at this podcast, so we do. I'm laughing, but it's
(26:18):
not a joke.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Very no, no, I'm laughing. I'm laughing at the thought
of Vader cat. Oh my gosh. Anyway, Yes, thank you
so much to these listeners. You're writing in for paying
the pet tax. If anybody else wants to pay it,
we would love to get it every time it's tax season,
(26:41):
so come on and any other thoughts, recipes things with
neier you clearly I love it, so yeah, let us know.
You can email us at hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
blue Sky and Instagram. I think that's what we've landed
on at the current moment, where our handle is savor Pod.
We do hope to hear from you. Save is a
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
(27:17):
our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
and I'm Lauren.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Bubble Bum, and today we have an episode for you
about Panier.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Yes, I love Premiere. Was there any particular reason this
was on your mind, Lauren, I don't think so.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
I think this was one of the ones that it's
just been on the list forever, and I was like,
maybe today is the day for Preenier.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Let's go always the day for panieer.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Oh my opinion so delicious, it's so good. I don't
have any right now to obtain some. I just had
someone like Saturday. But now I'm like, why didn't I
have more?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
I was I was bragging to Lauren before this. I
made a Premier dish recently, so I have some, and
after this that's going to be my lunch. And I'm
very excited. I'm excited for you and only a little
bit mad. Oh my gosh, she'd be mad. I would
be mad. I got really entrepreneur a couple of years
ago because my little brother is vegetarian, and so he
(01:11):
he would come over like once a month and we
would do video game nights and we would get a
lot of Indian food and I just became so I
loved peer Yeah, and I started to find it. I
started to look for it in grocery stores. It's not
super easy to find at walkable grocery stores for me,
which people who know me, I like to walk everywhere.
(01:33):
And in fact, one time I bought it at my
local grocery store and the woman who was checking me
out was from India and she was like, no, you
should just make it. You should just make it. Why
are you by? Why are you doing this? But I
I love it. I usually fried up and I make
a Pollack prenier or sag preneur, that's my favorite. But
this time I have Teaka Masala and it's it's pretty
(01:55):
good and I love the we'll talk about it more later,
but I love the texture and how it absorbs flavors
but has a different flavor in the center. Yes, yes, no,
I love this. You've clearly given it some thought. Yeah,
this was a nice It was a nice episode to
(02:17):
do where I had it before, And so I was
thinking while I was eating it, like what is it
I love about this? So I did put some thought
into it.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
I mean thought into cheese is something that we both
do a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
So could be an alternate title for this show should
be it should.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Be Oh well, you can see our previous episodes on
Tika Masala Ghi maybe Masala Chai for a little bit
more about the dairy industry and some of the foods
from this area.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Yes, but I guess that brings us to our question. Panier.
What is it? Well?
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Panier is a type of fresh cheese made from buffalo
or cow milk, usually that's set with acid and pressed
into slabs that can range from like soft and spongy
to firm and bouncy, but will always be like a bright,
creamy white in color and mild and like milky, nutty
sweet in flavor with just a little bit of tartness.
(03:27):
Panier does not melt easily, so a block of it
or or chunks of it can be cooked the way
that you would cook like meat or firm tofu bybe searring,
sauteg grilling, frying. It can be marinated or spice coated.
It's often served as the protein component in like savory
snacks or vegetable dishes, in stews or sauces, or on skewers,
(03:49):
as a filling in breads and fried snacks, but it
can be used in sweet dishes too, like puddings or cheesecakes.
It's it's just real nice because it's it's a very
gentle flavor and a slightly chewy texture that's a great
base for strong flavors and a good contrast to other textures.
It's just so satisfying. It's like it's like sinking down
(04:13):
into a really good pillow or couch. Mm hmmm, yes,
a good couch.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, and like every time you forget how amazing this
couch is. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
Yeah, I'm like furniture shopping right now. So this is
a thing that this is another thing that's very present
in my mind.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Okay, So buffalo milk is sort of preferred for making
paneer because it contains more fat and protein and calcium
than cow milk, which helps with the texture and the flavor.
Also because buffalo are common in South Asia, which is
where paneer is from. But okay, cheese cheese one oh,
one yes is a way to collect and preserve the
(05:02):
nutritious fats and proteins and stuff that's in milk and
to make them extra tasty at the same time, and
luckily for us, that is relatively easy to do because
of the structure of milk. So milk is made up
of proteins and fats and water and some other smaller
bits of stuff like vitamins and minerals that are that
(05:24):
are dissolved in either the fats or the water, and
fats and water don't usually like to mix. The reason
that they are mixed together in milk is that milks
proteins like wrap themselves around little globs of fat and
then evenly disperse themselves through the water.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
They do this.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Because they have a negative charge. So each little bundle
repels the other little bundles the way that magnets will
repel each other if you try to push two of
the same end together. Yeah, so all you have to
do to collect the fats and proteins in milk is
neutralized that charge, and then they'll start sticking together. And
(06:01):
you can do this by adding an acid of some kind.
In the case of peneir, you might add lactic acid
or citric acid, or at home, maybe a little bit
of like lemon or lime juice, and that will make
the fats and proteins clump up into curds and separate themselves.
Out from the water and stuff, which is the way
pineer is made by heating milk all the way up
(06:22):
to about like ninety degrees celsius that's one hundred and
ninety four fahrenheit, like near to boiling, and then reducing
the temperature a bit and adding an acid to spur coagulation.
The heat will help to get some of the way
proteins and the calcium phosphate that's in the way to
stick in with the curds. Normally they'd be washed out
with the way. Also that the combination of acid and
(06:44):
heat sets the proteins in the curds relatively firm, relatively
firmly in these bonds that will carry through to the
finished cheese and help with that texture. The curds are
then removed from the way and pressed into hoops with
cheese cloth, using some heavy weights to remove even more
of the way for a final texture that is yes
anywhere from soft to very firm. It's then packaged and
(07:06):
used fresh. Since it's not aged, it maintains that soft,
springy texture. That also means that it doesn't keep for
extremely long. It is pretty easy to make it home
from what I've read not tried it myself now, I
really want to. But these days there are all kinds
of pineer on the market, particularly around the Indian subcontinent,
made from buffalo cow soy, low fat milk, different flavorings
(07:31):
like spices or herbs or fruit juice, mixed in different
degrees of firmness. If you do buy some and you
find it's sort of stiff and rubbery like bouncy, yes,
rubbery is not what you're really looking for. The fix
for that is to, okay, two steps, a pan fry
it until it's nice and golden brown, and then soak
(07:51):
that fried Panier in water or like a water based
marinade for about half an hour. The frying will loosen
the matrix of proteins of of the cheese and allow
it to sponge up liquid, making it more tender. Yes, yes,
and he's just just shaking her head in like fond
(08:13):
remembrance of Panier's past.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Like literally last night.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
But yeah, it is served in all dang kinds of
dishes because right, it holds up to heat so well,
and especially in vegetarian cuisines, because the texture is springing
and chewing and satisfying.
Speaker 1 (08:34):
Indeed, well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
You know, cheeses are concentrations of fats and proteins and milk,
so Panier has good amounts of those along with the
good smattering of micronutrients.
Speaker 1 (08:47):
It will fill you up and help keep you going.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
But you know, like I would watch your portion sizes
eat a vegetable.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
I have to say, Panier is really filling. A lot
of times I get I see Panier and I'm like,
I'm gonna half of this night. Four meals later, I'm
like wow, like wow, yeah, it just it does fill
you up. Yeah, Well, we do have some numbers for
you a few.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Okay, So the global market for Panier is worth about
ten billion dollars a year and it is growing. About
seven percent of India's milk supply goes to making Panier.
And this is nothing to sneeze ahead, because India produces
more milk than any other country in the world over
one hundred and eighty million metric tons a year as
(09:36):
of twenty eighteen. That was like twenty two percent of
the world's supply of milk. Wow, that's like more than
the entirety of the European Union produced that year, and
a little bit more than half of that was buffalo milk.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, it's a bunch, bunch.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
We have like a hypothetical world record. In twenty fourteen,
a chef and deli created what is very likely the
largest ever serving of panier tica, which is like marinated
pinier that's grilled in a tandor oven, often served on skewers.
So he had a custom mold made that could create
a seventy two kilo block of pinier, that is one
(10:26):
hundred and sixty pounds of pinier. He also had a
custom tandor made that is over a meter across, like
that's about four feet. It was fueled by fifty kilos
of charcoal, and he injected marinade into the block six
hours beforehand to really get it and get it in
(10:49):
there and then put it, put the whole block on
these huge skewers and grilled it and then cut it
into for serving some one thy, six hundred and fifty
bite sized piece.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Oh impressive it is.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I don't think that this was confirmed by any of
the world record governing bodies like Guinness, but I want
to give it to him. I think if yeah, if
I can be the authority here that's yeah, absolutely done.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
World record sounds great, but I'm into it. I think
this is fantastic, beautiful, beautiful. Well, the history of near
Is is a lot also.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
We can say, yes, yes it is, and we are
going to get into that as soon as we get
back from a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
We're back, Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay. So, yes,
this one is complicated. It doesn't have as much information
around it as I would like, at least not that
I could find in English. There are a lot of
competing in some cases, very different theories behind the history here,
(12:19):
and a lot of it also has to do with
historians making their best guesses about what is Panier in
the historical record, and sometimes I would say making kind
of a judgment, like a judgment like a Some people
wouldn't agree that that is Panier, and other people are like, no,
that probably was.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
At least we can call we can call that Panier.
That's part of the history.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
Sure, yeah. Yes. One theory about Peneer's origins is similar
to the one we tell in almost every Cheese episode
and relates to an early form of preneer sometime during
the thirteenth or fourteenth century, people on horseback carrying milk
and saddle bags made of animal bladder or raw hide,
jostled the liquid about, and that, combined with the heat,
(13:03):
resulted in some type of cheese. Standard disclaimer every time
we tell this story, there really is no evidence that
it's true. It makes sense, there's just nothing really concrete.
This would also call for the use of rennet from
the rawhide or whatever animal products, but nowadays paneera is vegetarian.
(13:25):
Most people think that if this is true, panier didn't
arrive in India till later. However, according to one source,
cheese making in parts of India goes back way further,
as far back as three thousand BCE. In order to
preserve milk, producers curdled it with different types of barks
and berries, maybe adding in yogurt in there. Certainly there
(13:48):
were probably other cheeses being made without the use of
acid in India far earlier. In Peneer's timeline, I read
buffalo milk was the original milk used, but other sources
content so mysteries history. Yep, all right, So there's that's
one theory. Another theory suggests that paneer was introduced to India,
(14:09):
or at least the technique of making a cheese like
peneer was introduced to India by the Portuguese in the
seventeenth century. They brought their fresh cheeses and method of
using acid in their cheese production, and a lot of
cultures do have some version of a similar type of cheese,
including in several historic nomadic cultures close to modern day India,
(14:31):
so it could have come from a lot of places.
Yet another theory claims that paneer may have been introduced
by Afghani and Persian people's. This is largely because the
word paneer is close to the generic word for cheese
in Persian. This would also have been around the sixteenth
(14:52):
or seventeenth century.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, mysteries, histories, whatever the case, Acid set cheeses
were definitely being mentioned in cookbooks from the McCall imperial
Kitchens by the sixteen hundreds or so.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
So yes, and going back to the whole well what
do we count aspreneer thing? There are a couple of
earlier mentions of something that might be paneer in India.
There's something that mentions a quote solid mass made from
heated milk and curds that could have been pnier Ish
(15:29):
from some time between seventy five to three hundred CE. Okay,
whatever happened. Yeah, there were a lot of reasons why
paneer became a huge part of Indian cuisine. They had
buffalo and cattle and a lot of milk to use.
A substantial part of the population is was vegetarian, so
(15:49):
having a vegetarian source of protein was and is important.
Panier was introduced into all kinds of dishes, from traditional
ones to British influence ones because it holds up so
well and of sorts flavors so well. It's just a
great protein option for all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah, and Yeah, colonization and specifically British rule around the
Indian subcontinent, you know, from the sixteen hundreds through the
nineteen forties spread elements of Indian cuisines like panier to
other places around the world, such as parts of China.
Panier is definitely a part of like Indo Chinese cuisines,
(16:29):
but there wasn't really a formalized dairy industry in India
until the nineteen hundreds. Starting with this push from British
colonists during World War One, and leading through what's called
Operation Flood in the nineteen seventies, which is what transformed
India into the largest dairy producer in the world. And
this is all super complicated. It's also important to remember
(16:53):
that India is like big and multicultural. But suffice it
to say that throughout the nineteen hundreds, the event bailability
of milk for products like paneer boomed. With that boom,
paneer also spread from being a mostly North Indian thing
to an ingredient that lots of other regional cuisines use
(17:13):
here in the United States, Indian cuisines were introduced along
with waves of immigration, mostly after nineteen sixty five, which
is when the super racist immigration policies of the nineteen
twenties were overturned thanks to the Civil Rights movement. You know,
amazing food is just one of the many cultural benefits
that we get from welcoming immigrants into our communities. Diversity
(17:34):
makes the world more delicious. And then in during the
nineteen nineties, a bunch of research in India led to
a fairly standard process for mechanizing and industrializing the production
of pineer, which has made it a mass marketed commercial product.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I should we should both try to make it
at home and see.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Yeah, oh yeah, see what our like local biome is doing.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
That'd be cool, okay, okay, okay. And it was really
interesting that it made total sense. But I found myself
reading these really in depth research papers from India that
were just trying to get to the bottom of everything
about nir and I'm trying to understand this graph that
I'm like, wow, I love that this is a graph
(18:27):
about cheese and I can't understand it at all. Oh wow,
I like it.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. This was This was a fun one
to read about. This was a hungry This was a
very hungry outline.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
It was that's I made sure. A lot of times
I do the it's afterwards I'm like I have to
go get it. This time I was like, no, absolutely not,
although I usually always have. I'm gonna Pheneer around.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
Oh really, wow, I love it. Yeah, it's awesome.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, yes, well I think that's
what we have to say about Preneer for now. But
if you have recipes, oh, send them in yeah, absolutely yes.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
And uh yeah, we do already have some listener mail
for you, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with the snub oh springy, and then it's
like a hug. Yeah, it's lovely. We have two kind
of response messages from other listener mails that we have
(19:58):
read previously and both involved pets, and you know, we
love that. And it's been a long time since we've
mentioned this, but I think it was forever ago. We
used to joke, there's a pet tex you have to
send in a picture of your pet oh every time
you email, and a bunch of people have used that
(20:21):
term recently, and it's just it's brightened my day, and
during these stressful times, any brightening of the day is
really appreciated. So thank you so much. So first Trevor wrote,
and this is in response. We read Trevor's email about
his dog Farley, who chase deer to no avail. Was
(20:46):
not going to catch any deer. No more like friends
than any type of punt, so Trevor wrote, for what
it's worth, I heard the responding mail where the listener
thought the dog's name was Barley like the grain. It
is Farley, in honor of Chris Farley, the actor. The
breeder named him this because he was the chunkiest of
(21:09):
the pups. None of our pets have had food names
except my first cat. I tried to name Sushi that
it didn't stick and she became Yoshi. I guess technically
I did have a cat named Jasmine. I think of
that as a girl slash flower name rather than a
food stuff. I'll leave you with another of our pets
name origins. Our last dog's name was spot He was
(21:32):
a bikon. I don't know anything about dogs anyway, all
white dog. I always had to explain that Spot was
just his nickname. His full name was spot Less. Still
waiting for the Stuff D and D podcast. My pitch
for the title is stuff you should adventurer ooh, or
(21:56):
maybe just adventure stuff for short? Oh? Okay, I too,
Miss D and D. We we haven't gotten to played
in a long time, haven't We haven't. We're trying. We're
trying to get it back up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
We we just need to like like schedule it. That's
I mean, you know, that's the curse of Yeah. Yeah,
that the true the true monster is scheduling.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Yes, we are all busy people. But I do think
I don't think we could do a show. I think
we could do like a one shot podcast. I don't
think we could currently sustain. I would love to. I'm
not saying it's impossible. Uh, just obviously we have a
(22:41):
hard time scheduling, and.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Yeah, I truly have to be like a part of
our work day that we like carved out in order.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
To do it. Yeah, it's not it's possible. I'm not
saying no, I'm I'm just saying we would have to
plan we would have to plan it. Yeah, sure, yeah, yes,
I love I love all of that. Thank you, Thank
you for writing in.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
About your pets. I do love to spot the spotless dog.
That is that is that's really good. That's really good.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
And it's so funny when you ask someone like the
history of the name of their dog, and there's usually
like our pet, there's usually like a great story, even
if it's one sentence. You're just like, yeah, of course, okay.
My dog, my first dog, Dizzy was named after my
little body, and my family was angry because I got
(23:35):
to name her. I won the right to name her,
and I don't think anybody else was into it. Well,
that's sad for them. Yea, they grew on them. I
just think at first they were like are you sure,
like yes, absolutely, yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Now, when you allow a child to name a pet,
you don't know what you're gonna get. That's yeah, yeah,
mm hmm, yeah, I love My kitten's name is Bruce.
And uh, to be fair, we thought she was a
dude cat. It's she doesn't know what gender constructs are,
so she doesn't really care one way or another. But
(24:16):
but we definitely named her Bruce because she was very
small and gray and bitie and we were like, and
I love Jaws. And on the set of the movie
film Jaws, the cast and crew named the mechanical shark
Bruce and it's it's a gray, bity thing.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
And I was like, yeah, I think that's great. I
love that. See it's a fun every time you ask God. Yeah,
my mom's dog is adopted and she kept the name
that the dog has, but she has a whole like
theory behind it. What she thinks that we like. It's cute. Yeah, No,
(25:00):
I love it. I love it. Okay.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Michelle wrote, thank you so so so much for reading
my email At the end of the Guava episode. I
was so excited when you read the last part about
my book and the website that I screamed out loud
several times. My kitty Vader was confused and concerned over
this behavior.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
That's all.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
I just wanted to thank you, back to working on book.
Two cheers, and may you have nothing but kindness in
your lives. Pet tax attached my baby Vader, who is
a nine month old eleven pound house panther. And yes,
there is attached a photo of a black cat being
very cute. His eyes are really golden, and I want
(25:44):
to pet his cute face.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yes, and Vader, you know I love that day and
I'm already like, yep, block get yellowish.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah yeah, Vader, yeah yeah. I guess I was guessing
about about the again. The cat doesn't know what gender
construct is, so sorry if I but but apologies if
I used the wrong pronouns for Vader. We respect pronouns
at this podcast, so we do. I'm laughing, but it's
(26:18):
not a joke.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Very no, no, I'm laughing. I'm laughing at the thought
of Vader cat. Oh my gosh. Anyway, Yes, thank you
so much to these listeners. You're writing in for paying
the pet tax. If anybody else wants to pay it,
we would love to get it every time it's tax season,
(26:41):
so come on and any other thoughts, recipes things with
neier you clearly I love it, so yeah, let us know.
You can email us at hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
We're also on social media. You can find us on
blue Sky and Instagram. I think that's what we've landed
on at the current moment, where our handle is savor Pod.
We do hope to hear from you. Save is a
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
(27:17):
our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to
you for listening, and we hope that lots more good
things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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