December 6, 2024 • 28 mins
This egg custard cupped in crisp puff pastry is a must-try street food for travelers to Lisbon. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of pastéis de nata.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to save your production of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm Moren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Hostelda not though.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yes fun with pronunciation for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Uh huh yep, yeah, I was saying before we started recording,
and I'm sticking to it. Of all the languages that
I'm bad at, I think I am maybe the worst
at Portuguese because I have a little bit of Spanish
and it's spelled similarly but pronounced not that way often,
and so I'm just like, oh, cool, I'm really wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We do try to if we can find the pronunciations.
And before this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
There were some words that I was like, oh, I
know how to say that, but I was like, maybe
I'll look at it.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'll just check. I'm just double. I'm just glad I
looked up.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Anyway, So disclaimer about that. We're going to try our best.
Was there any particular reason this was on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Your mind, Lauren, Well, we were asked to do an
episode about travel, you know, because here in the Northern
Hemisphere it is winter and it's kind of wet and cold,
and you start thinking, what if I were somewhere that
was not wet and cold. What if I went somewhere,
for example, nice And.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
About about travel foods, like street foods, you know, like
the kind of things that any given place is really
known for that you absolutely have to eat when you
go there. And it was down between paniputti and pastelle
dia nata and I don't know, I was like on
a dessert kick that day or something. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It was tough because you asked me, and I was like, oh, no,
I love both of those. I cannot choose. I love
them both. I didn't know it was called pastelta, none
of though. I did not know the name of it.
But I have had it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh, I do love it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't think I have. I mean, I've had many
types of like little egg custards, but I don't think
i've had a proper one. And I've not been to Portugal.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yes, I'm definitely more familiar with the Asian variety that
you can get it like dim sum.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, definitely. So I'm relying on oh what year was that?
Twenty ten?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My brain a long time ago when I had it,
and I remember liking it quite a bit. So interestingly
this kind of got a rave episodes you can see
that are related the dessert pastry episodes of course, but
also Pierri Pierri.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Got yeah of Idalu. Maybe definitely check out Croissants and
other like monastic related episodes. It reminded me a little
bit of chartruse.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah yeah, I love this like almost hint of what's
to come. And I feel like this one is difficult
to pin down based on those suggestions, wish, I guess
brings us to our question. Sure, Pastel do nata, what
is it?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Pastelle donata is a type of small pastry made up
of a rich and creamy egg custard seasoned with warm
cinnamon and vanilla, cupped in like a flaky, crisp puff
pastry and baked until that the top and the sides
are browned like a little bit beyond gold like pretty
heck and browned. They're usually individually sized to be just
(03:39):
a few bites. The custard is made with egg yolks
and milk for like a buttery soft texture, sometimes with
other flavor adeditions like maybe chocolate or a bit of
lemon peel, and the pastry is made with many thin
layers of buttery dough. The result is a contrast of
the smooth custard held in like a super crisp and
(04:00):
laky tartshell, and like a slightly sweet creaminess balanced with
a tiny hit of bitter from the browning and a
little bit of salt in the pastry. The plural is
pestase danata or sometimes just not us. They're served warm
a dusted with cinnamon and sugar as a dessert or
a snack off and alongside like espresso type coffee drinks.
(04:21):
They're just a perfect custard made portable, and all the
rich ingredients are sort of blied by how meltingly delicate
they turn out. It's like you know when you know
what someone has gotten you for a gift, Like you
know what's coming and it's wrapped up, and it's wrapped
up so cute, and the knowing does not ruin the
(04:45):
joy of opening it because you're so excited about how
nice it is and how cool it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, they always feel like even if you know, it
always feels like a bright surprise.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah this is so good, just like just so delightful,
just like oh oh yeah, seems so simple, but oh,
really good or I imagine so okay. The word literally means
(05:21):
like cream pastries or like cream puffs, and Portuguese, which
is where they're from, which is why we've been talking
about Portugal this whole time. The custard is milk and
egg yolks, sweetened with sugar and seasoned with traditionally just
vanilla and cinnamon. You heat the milk to dissolve the
sugar and infuse any flavorings you're using, then cool it
a bit and a whiskey in the egg yolks until smooth.
(05:42):
The custard gets poured into the raw pastry shells, usually
made in like specialized pans that look a little bit
like like mini muffin tins. The pastry is what's called
masa ful yata and Portuguese it's your you know, basic
unlovened puff pastry dough, which is actually not basic. It's
very implicated because it's a laminated dough, meaning that you
(06:03):
make it by rolling out dough and that in this
case of a white wheat flour dough and then spreading
it with some kind of solid fat in this case
cool butter, then folding it, spreading it with more butter
and folding it again, then rolling it out, spreading it
with more butter, folding it, rolling it, spreading it, and yeah,
and repeating until what you've got is a sheet of
(06:24):
pastry made with many, many, many super thin layers of
dough with butter in between each layer. And you have
to keep it cool the whole time because you don't
want the butter to melt before it goes in the oven,
because in the oven it puffs up without any kind
of leavener besides steam. So in the heat of the oven,
the butter finally melts, and the moisture from it and
(06:46):
from the dough boils into steam and evaporates out. The
remaining fats and proteins from the butter will will coat
each expanding layer of dough, and as the dough continues
to heat, each of those layers cooks like a like
a panini in a press, but the press is just
made of butter and hot air, so so each layer
browns and separates a tiny bit before it sets, and
(07:09):
the whole crust puffs up, and that does. You bake
it till it's real crisp, which gives the custard time
to set and brown custard very basically works because the
proteins and egg yolks on furl when they begin to
heat up and then will reform and solidify when they're hot.
(07:29):
Left to their own devices, they like barely bond with
each other and form like tight grainy little clusters like
a like a hard boiled egg yolk. Yeah, but the
water in the milk slows down the heating process and
gives the proteins more time to make connections with each other,
and the sugar slows down the connection process and like
(07:50):
kind of like makes them, makes them do it really carefully,
like really think about what they're doing. So so you
wind up with a semi ferm and creamy set to
the eggs. Yeah, and yeah, that's your basic one. These days,
there are all kinds of variations, you know, gluten free,
(08:11):
lactose free, vegan flavors like chocolate, caramel, port, blueberry, raspberry,
apple or passion fruit, blue cheese, macha whatever, usually not
mixed into the custard, but like with a jam or
cheese or whatever placed under the custard in the shell,
or maybe swirled onto the top if in the case
of like chocolate or something, and they are just truly
(08:34):
pervasive in Lisbon and Portugal at large and in former
Portuguese colonies, most often served in cafes as a snack,
but also like anywhere, basically anywhere. For a good while,
the KFC's in Macau, which is now under Chinese control
but formerly Portuguese, offered pestiseetanata. Wow, KFC factory.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
It's been a minute since we've had all of those.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we return. Yeah. Well what about
the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, you know, egg, yolks and sugar and butter are
all nutrient and or calorie dents. Treats are nice. Treats
are nice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Treats are nice, they are right. Yeah, and we're not
the only one, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So, yes, we do have.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Numbers for you. Oh we do. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So there's this one really famous pastry shop in Lisbon
that makes them, called the Anchiga Confetera de Blame, and
as of twenty twenty one, they this this cafe has
just four people who actually make these buddies, and only
(09:55):
seven people total who know the recipe. This is incredible
because they are entirely handmade and they make about twenty
two thousand a day.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I hope they're all okay, because I got stressed just
hearing that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I've seen videos. They seemed to be there voluntarily, like
like Will and Joy, so everyone seems like they were
having a nice time.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, all right, good okay, Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, numbers can get bigger from there. There's a manufacturer
called Natapura Natapura that freezes natas and sells them to
shops around the world, about five hundred thousand a month
to some five thousand stores, equaling some two million euros
a year in sales as of twenty nineteen, and I'm
(10:55):
pretty sure they've gotten bigger since then, but I couldn't
find an updated number. Like this isn't a thing that's
really hit America yet, but like in South Korea they
sell these things in CVS's so wow, yeah yeah right right, yeah,
I'm just gonna go down to the shop and get
some ala Vera jel and natas. Yeah that sounds great. Yeah,
(11:18):
Shell is mad about it. There is an international cafe
chain called Nata L'spoa that currently has thirty two locations,
including shops in Portugal, throughout Europe, and two in Angola.
Their slogan is the world needs Nata.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's a good slogan it is it is I like that. Well,
we have quite the history to get into.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
We're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So as usual, a lot of mystery surrounds the origins
of pastel di nata, specifically because there are similar dishes
around the world, but when we're looking at nata specifically,
oh my. The most popularly reported story is that after
Portugal closed the monasteries in eighteen thirty four, a monk
(12:26):
sold the recipe to a bakery in Beilem district in Lisbon.
The purchaser of the recipe, allegedly a Brazilian businessman named
Domingo Raphael Alvas, started making and selling them in eighteen
thirty seven at Anchiga Confeterie de Belem. That bakery is yes,
still operating today. This recipe has allegedly been passed down
(12:52):
through the family over generations. They still sell pastaes de
nata and according to them, the recipe they use is
the original one and they do keep it close to
the chests. Not many people are allowed to know about it.
I read there's some closet lock box.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I'm very puciable love that. I always love it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, but let's break down some of that. As we've
talked about in several similar episodes, a lot of monasteries
did play a hand in creating or popularizing of food
stuff around this time. How exaggerated the stories are hard
to say. In this case, the story goes that during
the eighteenth century and Portugal, nuns used egg whites to
(13:34):
starch their habits.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Egg white was also used to clarify things like wine
during productions.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So at any rate, yes, this meant they had a
lot of egg yolks that they needed to find it
used for, so they started finding ways to incorporate them
into suites at the Huronimal Monastery located in Belem. Monks,
many of whom may have learned pastry making while in France,
got the idea to make an egg oak custard tart.
(14:02):
It seems it was popular and they sold the tarts
to stay afloat during the early eighteen hundreds, and when
Portugal's liberal revolutions started in the eighteen twenties, they really
relied on it. According to some sources, they sold them
specifically to a nearby sugar refinery. However, the new Portuguese
government forced monasteries to close in eighteen thirty four, which
(14:23):
is when the recipe was sold allegedly.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And tiny bit of context here, very very tiny, very
basically part of the Portuguese Civil War was the liberal
side expressing displeasure at the reach of the Catholic Church
in Portugal, and the Liberals won, and so after the war,
the kingdom dissolved its monasteries and convents with the idea
(14:48):
of like returning that land and its resources to the people.
So that's what was going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, yeah, And the location of this monastery always played
a role in the creation and spread of plus.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah because okay, blame which is right, This this district
in Lisbon had long been like the symbolic entrance to
Lisbon and to Portugal at large, due to the district's
location right on the water at the entrance to the
port of Lisbon and therefore right at the entrance to
like the large harbor where the Tegis or Tagas River
(15:22):
meets the Atlantic. And this monastery, like if you say,
if we say monastery and you're thinking of like the
Ascetic monk tradition. That is not what was going on here.
This monastery is this huge, grand, gorgeous Gothic thing that
was built in the fifteen hundreds, like of the course
of a century, just a monument to the site, like
(15:45):
being the launching point of Osco da Gama and the
rest of Portugal's explorers and colonizers.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Right. And this is also where a lot of ingredients
like cinnamon were being imported, and those ingredients made it up,
and pastel did nuts, and this tart got adapted in
different countries after people returned home after trying them, or
traveled after trying them, or moved away from Portugal and
settled somewhere else. So the location was really important to
(16:13):
the creation and spread of nazas. But all this being said,
whatever the case, it is true that based on the
survey of bakeries that have a long history of selling
paste Danada, a few of them opened in the mid
eighteen hundred, so it stands to reason that they were
being made.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And eaten by that point. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
In nineteen eighty three, the huron Am Monastery was named
a UNESCO World Heritage Sorry, so yeah, it is very
pretty look up pictures if you're interested.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh yeah, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It looks like what Hogwarts was trying to be, like
just just a big old thing. Heck jk rowling right
to heck. Anyway, the pastries are not mentioned in the
UNESCO World Heritage Later, the monastery was also the site
of Portugal's like signing on to being part of the
European Union in nineteen eighty five, and then the site
(17:08):
of the Treaty of Lisbon in two thousand and seven,
which was one of the ones that like sort of
consolidated former treaties in order to establish the European Union
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yes, and as mentioned, you can see our pie Pio
episode for more. But when the Portuguese influenced chain Nando's
started spreading in the nineties, it included natas on the
menu and I looked it up. Currently the item is
called nati natas.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yes, increased tourism to Portugal has exposed more people to
the pastry too, And then I ran across this. In
twenty twelve, Portugal's then economy minister suggested selling Pastel di
Natta around the world to help solve the country's monetary
struggles at a conference, I asked why there wasn't a
(18:01):
large Nata's chain like Nando's. Basically he was saying Portugal
as a brand hasn't really been been exported and if
it was, then that could help them.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Then not as would be a great Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, his statement was the subject of much mockery, but
it did boost sales at local businesses in Portugal, and
as some pointed out, historically not necessarily incorrect. Obviously it's
a bit more complicated, but it was interesting that it
came up.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's this economic forum.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, yeah, and again right like I haven't really seen
these in America, but certainly, and kind of weirdly, right
around the time, like right after that, dude said that
they started becoming a really popular around Europe, like within
the past couple of years backwards from twenty twenty four,
(19:01):
major food service corporations like England's Baker and Baker, which
is a baked goods manufacturer, and France's Leduff Group, which
is a restaurant holder, started buying up these Portuguese manufacturers
that specialize and nuts us. So, yeah, I don't know,
whatever they're doing, it's working. Yeah. In twenty twenty three.
(19:25):
In fact, EU officials backed the marketing of eating nats
Us as a way to celebrate Europe Day and European
Unity in general. Europe Day is May ninth. Also has
not caught on here in America for perhaps obvious reasons.
But yeah, the effort launched in Brussels, and apparently people
got really into it. I don't know, I love it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I mean, get to eat.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I want to eat more in custards.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Let's go, let's go. Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I also read and I would love listeners right in.
I also read it's very popular. The original restaurant that
we've mentioned a couple of times, Bakery.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It's very popular for like newly Wise to visit.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh sometimes I'm like still in their wedding regalia.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh yeah, I think some saying or something.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But let us know, it feels like it's a very
It's one of those foods.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It takes the space of it's both something you have
all the time, but it's also celebratory. Yeah, yeah, I
love it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I again, like cravings for things that I'm not entirely
sure I've ever had.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Happens more than you would think on this show.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Or perhaps exactly as much as you would think perhaps.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
But yes, I think that's what we have to say
about not to us for.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Now, it is, though we would love, of course to
hear from y'all if you have any experience with these
fond memories travel travelogs. Yeah, the whole thing, and speaking
of we don't have a second dad break right now,
but we do have some listener mail.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yes or listener.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
M.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love the like the crunch, oh yeah, of the
like outside of the dough and then the texture mixture
and the salt.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah. I heard the dough referred to or read read
the dough referred to as shatteringly crisp.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I love it. We've got kind of a backlog
of listener mail. Also.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I'm sorry behind on answering it, but you're doing.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
But I promise, yes, we were reading it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Randall wrote, loved the U Picket episode and it brought
back memories of harvest Fest I have been to. I
have also picked stuff at farms too. The biggest attraction
at the harvest Fest was the pig sluttering demos. As
a kid going to the Cootstown Folk Fest, it was
the highlight. They had stadium seeding and an announcer doing
a cut by cut commentary. They brought a live pig
(22:24):
in a trek and shot it in front of everyone
and began the process. It is something that stuck with
me for sure. Fast forward forty years and it went
to another fest at Landis Farms. This time, the pig
was already dead and the butchering began, but no stadium
seating or commentator except for the butcher. As this was happening,
I looked around and saw two Amish kids, maybe six
(22:45):
or seven, standing there, whispering to each other and pointing.
I realized that they were critiquing the butchering because they
had helped with the procedure on their farms.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Sometimes you need to know where your food comes from.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And I was also thinking that a Chord Mays would
be a perfect setting for a Saw movie.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Can you imagine? Yes, I can done done. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I just saw a trailer for a movie coming out
that is set in a corn bin.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Oh wow, cool? Yeah, so I'm there. I'm already there
and picking up on the zeitgeist.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've been to many a festival in
small towns. I've never seen a pig butchering demonstration. I
don't know if that's because I avoided it, if it
just didn't offer it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah. I think the only butchering demo that I've ever
seen was maybe at like Atlanta Food and Wine, and
one of the booths had set up like a this
is basically how you break down this part of a
cow and this is where the different cuts of meat
come from sort of thing. I feel like I remember that,
but yeah, I don't feel like that's something I would
(23:55):
have just made up.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well again, hard to say. We did have a friend
we used to work with who's a photographer, and she
did an exhibition on butchering chickens. I think primarily oh cool,
but all the photographs were of the the farmers and
(24:19):
butchers and chickens, and the goal of her goal.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Was to show like, you should know where your food
is coming from, what it took.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, if you can't deal with that, you probably shouldn't
need it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah mm hmmmm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, that's a crazy that's wild to me though, that
it was like a.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, like with an announcer, Well, there.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Was the leg.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I yeah, no, I would I would, I would love to,
I would absolutely be. Yeah, but butchery is something that
I haven't gotten into personally, but because I feel like
I shouldn't really have access to very sharp objects all
the time, like, oh, I'm too accident prone for that.
But yeah, really really fascinating. Becca wrote post Buffalo Mozzarella episode,
(25:10):
you should look into the Neapolitan Pizza Association, the Associazone
Berrate Pizza Nipolatana. Yes, that's kind of it. Sorry, It's
an international board where they make Neapolitan pizza. Makers have
specific ingredients and techniques to be certified makers of Neapolitan pizza.
(25:31):
Buffalo mozzarella, a certain flower, double check me if I'm
remembering correctly, tomatoes, et cetera. They have to be from
the Campania region. There are approved suppliers that you have
to use. Is how serious certified Neapolitan pizza making is.
The Association is a big deal to be a part
of if you make pizzas. There's an episode or documentary
out there about this. I think Netflix or Hulu has
(25:53):
one with a good overview about it. Ooh yeah, oh yeah.
I don't think we got into that specific thing in
our in our pizza episode, but as y'all know, we
really adore like super specific food directives. Laid out by
(26:14):
traditional associations like this.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, yes, and I feel like I have seen some
of these ingredients where I know you're supposed to use this,
this brand, the.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Feeler one, Yeah, the tomatoes from right here, no other
tomatoes exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, so I would love to learn more about that.
Pizza was such a big topic. I mean almost every
topic we do, but pizza was such a big one
that you could go down.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh yeah, as this comes out, we just had. We
just got back from Thanksgiving and I met someone I'd
never met before and he was like, oh, you're on
a food podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
The first thing he asked was, have you done Hawaiian
pizza yet? It's so specific. No, I'm not, but we
will want it. But that there's just so many different types.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, and then you get to the specifics of yes,
it's also only it only can be part of this
organization if it follows these rules.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So it's even more specific. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
But that is really cool, and thank you for letting
us know.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, yeah, we'll have to check that out.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yes, absolutely well. Thanks to both of those listeners for
writing two us. If you like to try to as
you can our emails. Hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
We're also on social media. We are currently on Twitter,
Facebook and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Sare is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
thanks to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listen thing, and we hope that
lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to save your production of iHeartRadio. I'm
Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm Moren Vogelbaum, and today we have an episode
for you about Hostelda not though.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
Yes fun with pronunciation for sure.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Uh huh yep, yeah, I was saying before we started recording,
and I'm sticking to it. Of all the languages that
I'm bad at, I think I am maybe the worst
at Portuguese because I have a little bit of Spanish
and it's spelled similarly but pronounced not that way often,
and so I'm just like, oh, cool, I'm really wrong. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We do try to if we can find the pronunciations.
And before this.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
There were some words that I was like, oh, I
know how to say that, but I was like, maybe
I'll look at it.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
I'll just check. I'm just double. I'm just glad I
looked up.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Anyway, So disclaimer about that. We're going to try our best.
Was there any particular reason this was on.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Your mind, Lauren, Well, we were asked to do an
episode about travel, you know, because here in the Northern
Hemisphere it is winter and it's kind of wet and cold,
and you start thinking, what if I were somewhere that
was not wet and cold. What if I went somewhere,
for example, nice And.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
So I was thinking.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
About about travel foods, like street foods, you know, like
the kind of things that any given place is really
known for that you absolutely have to eat when you
go there. And it was down between paniputti and pastelle
dia nata and I don't know, I was like on
a dessert kick that day or something. So here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:51):
It was tough because you asked me, and I was like, oh, no,
I love both of those. I cannot choose. I love
them both. I didn't know it was called pastelta, none
of though. I did not know the name of it.
But I have had it.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Oh, I do love it.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I don't think I have. I mean, I've had many
types of like little egg custards, but I don't think
i've had a proper one. And I've not been to Portugal.
So here we are.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Yes, I'm definitely more familiar with the Asian variety that
you can get it like dim sum.
Speaker 3 (02:21):
Yeah, definitely. So I'm relying on oh what year was that?
Twenty ten?
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My brain a long time ago when I had it,
and I remember liking it quite a bit. So interestingly
this kind of got a rave episodes you can see
that are related the dessert pastry episodes of course, but
also Pierri Pierri.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Got yeah of Idalu. Maybe definitely check out Croissants and
other like monastic related episodes. It reminded me a little
bit of chartruse.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yeah yeah, I love this like almost hint of what's
to come. And I feel like this one is difficult
to pin down based on those suggestions, wish, I guess
brings us to our question. Sure, Pastel do nata, what
is it?
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Well?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Pastelle donata is a type of small pastry made up
of a rich and creamy egg custard seasoned with warm
cinnamon and vanilla, cupped in like a flaky, crisp puff
pastry and baked until that the top and the sides
are browned like a little bit beyond gold like pretty
heck and browned. They're usually individually sized to be just
(03:39):
a few bites. The custard is made with egg yolks
and milk for like a buttery soft texture, sometimes with
other flavor adeditions like maybe chocolate or a bit of
lemon peel, and the pastry is made with many thin
layers of buttery dough. The result is a contrast of
the smooth custard held in like a super crisp and
(04:00):
laky tartshell, and like a slightly sweet creaminess balanced with
a tiny hit of bitter from the browning and a
little bit of salt in the pastry. The plural is
pestase danata or sometimes just not us. They're served warm
a dusted with cinnamon and sugar as a dessert or
a snack off and alongside like espresso type coffee drinks.
(04:21):
They're just a perfect custard made portable, and all the
rich ingredients are sort of blied by how meltingly delicate
they turn out. It's like you know when you know
what someone has gotten you for a gift, Like you
know what's coming and it's wrapped up, and it's wrapped
up so cute, and the knowing does not ruin the
(04:45):
joy of opening it because you're so excited about how
nice it is and how cool it's going to be.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Yeah, they always feel like even if you know, it
always feels like a bright surprise.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Yeah this is so good, just like just so delightful,
just like oh oh yeah, seems so simple, but oh,
really good or I imagine so okay. The word literally means
(05:21):
like cream pastries or like cream puffs, and Portuguese, which
is where they're from, which is why we've been talking
about Portugal this whole time. The custard is milk and
egg yolks, sweetened with sugar and seasoned with traditionally just
vanilla and cinnamon. You heat the milk to dissolve the
sugar and infuse any flavorings you're using, then cool it
a bit and a whiskey in the egg yolks until smooth.
(05:42):
The custard gets poured into the raw pastry shells, usually
made in like specialized pans that look a little bit
like like mini muffin tins. The pastry is what's called
masa ful yata and Portuguese it's your you know, basic
unlovened puff pastry dough, which is actually not basic. It's
very implicated because it's a laminated dough, meaning that you
(06:03):
make it by rolling out dough and that in this
case of a white wheat flour dough and then spreading
it with some kind of solid fat in this case
cool butter, then folding it, spreading it with more butter
and folding it again, then rolling it out, spreading it
with more butter, folding it, rolling it, spreading it, and yeah,
and repeating until what you've got is a sheet of
(06:24):
pastry made with many, many, many super thin layers of
dough with butter in between each layer. And you have
to keep it cool the whole time because you don't
want the butter to melt before it goes in the oven,
because in the oven it puffs up without any kind
of leavener besides steam. So in the heat of the oven,
the butter finally melts, and the moisture from it and
(06:46):
from the dough boils into steam and evaporates out. The
remaining fats and proteins from the butter will will coat
each expanding layer of dough, and as the dough continues
to heat, each of those layers cooks like a like
a panini in a press, but the press is just
made of butter and hot air, so so each layer
browns and separates a tiny bit before it sets, and
(07:09):
the whole crust puffs up, and that does. You bake
it till it's real crisp, which gives the custard time
to set and brown custard very basically works because the
proteins and egg yolks on furl when they begin to
heat up and then will reform and solidify when they're hot.
(07:29):
Left to their own devices, they like barely bond with
each other and form like tight grainy little clusters like
a like a hard boiled egg yolk. Yeah, but the
water in the milk slows down the heating process and
gives the proteins more time to make connections with each other,
and the sugar slows down the connection process and like
(07:50):
kind of like makes them, makes them do it really carefully,
like really think about what they're doing. So so you
wind up with a semi ferm and creamy set to
the eggs. Yeah, and yeah, that's your basic one. These days,
there are all kinds of variations, you know, gluten free,
(08:11):
lactose free, vegan flavors like chocolate, caramel, port, blueberry, raspberry,
apple or passion fruit, blue cheese, macha whatever, usually not
mixed into the custard, but like with a jam or
cheese or whatever placed under the custard in the shell,
or maybe swirled onto the top if in the case
of like chocolate or something, and they are just truly
(08:34):
pervasive in Lisbon and Portugal at large and in former
Portuguese colonies, most often served in cafes as a snack,
but also like anywhere, basically anywhere. For a good while,
the KFC's in Macau, which is now under Chinese control
but formerly Portuguese, offered pestiseetanata. Wow, KFC factory.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
It's been a minute since we've had all of those.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we return. Yeah. Well what about
the nutrition?
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah, you know, egg, yolks and sugar and butter are
all nutrient and or calorie dents. Treats are nice. Treats
are nice.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Treats are nice, they are right. Yeah, and we're not
the only one, I think.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So, yes, we do have.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Numbers for you. Oh we do. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So there's this one really famous pastry shop in Lisbon
that makes them, called the Anchiga Confetera de Blame, and
as of twenty twenty one, they this this cafe has
just four people who actually make these buddies, and only
(09:55):
seven people total who know the recipe. This is incredible
because they are entirely handmade and they make about twenty
two thousand a day.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
I hope they're all okay, because I got stressed just
hearing that.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
I've seen videos. They seemed to be there voluntarily, like
like Will and Joy, so everyone seems like they were
having a nice time.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Yes, all right, good okay, Oh.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Yeah, numbers can get bigger from there. There's a manufacturer
called Natapura Natapura that freezes natas and sells them to
shops around the world, about five hundred thousand a month
to some five thousand stores, equaling some two million euros
a year in sales as of twenty nineteen, and I'm
(10:55):
pretty sure they've gotten bigger since then, but I couldn't
find an updated number. Like this isn't a thing that's
really hit America yet, but like in South Korea they
sell these things in CVS's so wow, yeah yeah right right, yeah,
I'm just gonna go down to the shop and get
some ala Vera jel and natas. Yeah that sounds great. Yeah,
(11:18):
Shell is mad about it. There is an international cafe
chain called Nata L'spoa that currently has thirty two locations,
including shops in Portugal, throughout Europe, and two in Angola.
Their slogan is the world needs Nata.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
It's a good slogan it is it is I like that. Well,
we have quite the history to get into.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
We do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
We're back, Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
So as usual, a lot of mystery surrounds the origins
of pastel di nata, specifically because there are similar dishes
around the world, but when we're looking at nata specifically,
oh my. The most popularly reported story is that after
Portugal closed the monasteries in eighteen thirty four, a monk
(12:26):
sold the recipe to a bakery in Beilem district in Lisbon.
The purchaser of the recipe, allegedly a Brazilian businessman named
Domingo Raphael Alvas, started making and selling them in eighteen
thirty seven at Anchiga Confeterie de Belem. That bakery is yes,
still operating today. This recipe has allegedly been passed down
(12:52):
through the family over generations. They still sell pastaes de
nata and according to them, the recipe they use is
the original one and they do keep it close to
the chests. Not many people are allowed to know about it.
I read there's some closet lock box.
Speaker 3 (13:09):
I'm very puciable love that. I always love it.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Yes, but let's break down some of that. As we've
talked about in several similar episodes, a lot of monasteries
did play a hand in creating or popularizing of food
stuff around this time. How exaggerated the stories are hard
to say. In this case, the story goes that during
the eighteenth century and Portugal, nuns used egg whites to
(13:34):
starch their habits.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Egg white was also used to clarify things like wine
during productions.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
So at any rate, yes, this meant they had a
lot of egg yolks that they needed to find it
used for, so they started finding ways to incorporate them
into suites at the Huronimal Monastery located in Belem. Monks,
many of whom may have learned pastry making while in France,
got the idea to make an egg oak custard tart.
(14:02):
It seems it was popular and they sold the tarts
to stay afloat during the early eighteen hundreds, and when
Portugal's liberal revolutions started in the eighteen twenties, they really
relied on it. According to some sources, they sold them
specifically to a nearby sugar refinery. However, the new Portuguese
government forced monasteries to close in eighteen thirty four, which
(14:23):
is when the recipe was sold allegedly.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
And tiny bit of context here, very very tiny, very
basically part of the Portuguese Civil War was the liberal
side expressing displeasure at the reach of the Catholic Church
in Portugal, and the Liberals won, and so after the war,
the kingdom dissolved its monasteries and convents with the idea
(14:48):
of like returning that land and its resources to the people.
So that's what was going on there.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yes, yeah, And the location of this monastery always played
a role in the creation and spread of plus.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah because okay, blame which is right, This this district
in Lisbon had long been like the symbolic entrance to
Lisbon and to Portugal at large, due to the district's
location right on the water at the entrance to the
port of Lisbon and therefore right at the entrance to
like the large harbor where the Tegis or Tagas River
(15:22):
meets the Atlantic. And this monastery, like if you say,
if we say monastery and you're thinking of like the
Ascetic monk tradition. That is not what was going on here.
This monastery is this huge, grand, gorgeous Gothic thing that
was built in the fifteen hundreds, like of the course
of a century, just a monument to the site, like
(15:45):
being the launching point of Osco da Gama and the
rest of Portugal's explorers and colonizers.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Right. And this is also where a lot of ingredients
like cinnamon were being imported, and those ingredients made it up,
and pastel did nuts, and this tart got adapted in
different countries after people returned home after trying them, or
traveled after trying them, or moved away from Portugal and
settled somewhere else. So the location was really important to
(16:13):
the creation and spread of nazas. But all this being said,
whatever the case, it is true that based on the
survey of bakeries that have a long history of selling
paste Danada, a few of them opened in the mid
eighteen hundred, so it stands to reason that they were
being made.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
And eaten by that point. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
In nineteen eighty three, the huron Am Monastery was named
a UNESCO World Heritage Sorry, so yeah, it is very
pretty look up pictures if you're interested.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Oh yeah, it's gorgeous.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
It looks like what Hogwarts was trying to be, like
just just a big old thing. Heck jk rowling right
to heck. Anyway, the pastries are not mentioned in the
UNESCO World Heritage Later, the monastery was also the site
of Portugal's like signing on to being part of the
European Union in nineteen eighty five, and then the site
(17:08):
of the Treaty of Lisbon in two thousand and seven,
which was one of the ones that like sort of
consolidated former treaties in order to establish the European Union
in the first place.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yes, and as mentioned, you can see our pie Pio
episode for more. But when the Portuguese influenced chain Nando's
started spreading in the nineties, it included natas on the
menu and I looked it up. Currently the item is
called nati natas.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Yes, increased tourism to Portugal has exposed more people to
the pastry too, And then I ran across this. In
twenty twelve, Portugal's then economy minister suggested selling Pastel di
Natta around the world to help solve the country's monetary
struggles at a conference, I asked why there wasn't a
(18:01):
large Nata's chain like Nando's. Basically he was saying Portugal
as a brand hasn't really been been exported and if
it was, then that could help them.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
Then not as would be a great Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah, his statement was the subject of much mockery, but
it did boost sales at local businesses in Portugal, and
as some pointed out, historically not necessarily incorrect. Obviously it's
a bit more complicated, but it was interesting that it
came up.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
That's this economic forum.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Yeah, yeah, and again right like I haven't really seen
these in America, but certainly, and kind of weirdly, right
around the time, like right after that, dude said that
they started becoming a really popular around Europe, like within
the past couple of years backwards from twenty twenty four,
(19:01):
major food service corporations like England's Baker and Baker, which
is a baked goods manufacturer, and France's Leduff Group, which
is a restaurant holder, started buying up these Portuguese manufacturers
that specialize and nuts us. So, yeah, I don't know,
whatever they're doing, it's working. Yeah. In twenty twenty three.
(19:25):
In fact, EU officials backed the marketing of eating nats
Us as a way to celebrate Europe Day and European
Unity in general. Europe Day is May ninth. Also has
not caught on here in America for perhaps obvious reasons.
But yeah, the effort launched in Brussels, and apparently people
got really into it. I don't know, I love it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I mean, get to eat.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
I want to eat more in custards.
Speaker 3 (19:53):
Let's go, let's go. Okay.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
I also read and I would love listeners right in.
I also read it's very popular. The original restaurant that
we've mentioned a couple of times, Bakery.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
It's very popular for like newly Wise to visit.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Oh sometimes I'm like still in their wedding regalia.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Oh yeah, I think some saying or something.
Speaker 1 (20:23):
But let us know, it feels like it's a very
It's one of those foods.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
It takes the space of it's both something you have
all the time, but it's also celebratory. Yeah, yeah, I
love it.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I again, like cravings for things that I'm not entirely
sure I've ever had.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Happens more than you would think on this show.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
Or perhaps exactly as much as you would think perhaps.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
But yes, I think that's what we have to say
about not to us for.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Now, it is, though we would love, of course to
hear from y'all if you have any experience with these
fond memories travel travelogs. Yeah, the whole thing, and speaking
of we don't have a second dad break right now,
but we do have some listener mail.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yes or listener.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
M.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
I love the like the crunch, oh yeah, of the
like outside of the dough and then the texture mixture
and the salt.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Yeah. I heard the dough referred to or read read
the dough referred to as shatteringly crisp.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Yeah, I love it. We've got kind of a backlog
of listener mail. Also.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
I'm sorry behind on answering it, but you're doing.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
But I promise, yes, we were reading it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Randall wrote, loved the U Picket episode and it brought
back memories of harvest Fest I have been to. I
have also picked stuff at farms too. The biggest attraction
at the harvest Fest was the pig sluttering demos. As
a kid going to the Cootstown Folk Fest, it was
the highlight. They had stadium seeding and an announcer doing
a cut by cut commentary. They brought a live pig
(22:24):
in a trek and shot it in front of everyone
and began the process. It is something that stuck with
me for sure. Fast forward forty years and it went
to another fest at Landis Farms. This time, the pig
was already dead and the butchering began, but no stadium
seating or commentator except for the butcher. As this was happening,
I looked around and saw two Amish kids, maybe six
(22:45):
or seven, standing there, whispering to each other and pointing.
I realized that they were critiquing the butchering because they
had helped with the procedure on their farms.
Speaker 3 (22:53):
Sometimes you need to know where your food comes from.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
And I was also thinking that a Chord Mays would
be a perfect setting for a Saw movie.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Can you imagine? Yes, I can done done. I'm pretty sure.
Speaker 1 (23:09):
I just saw a trailer for a movie coming out
that is set in a corn bin.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Oh wow, cool? Yeah, so I'm there. I'm already there
and picking up on the zeitgeist.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, it's interesting. I've been to many a festival in
small towns. I've never seen a pig butchering demonstration. I
don't know if that's because I avoided it, if it
just didn't offer it.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah. I think the only butchering demo that I've ever
seen was maybe at like Atlanta Food and Wine, and
one of the booths had set up like a this
is basically how you break down this part of a
cow and this is where the different cuts of meat
come from sort of thing. I feel like I remember that,
but yeah, I don't feel like that's something I would
(23:55):
have just made up.
Speaker 1 (23:57):
Well again, hard to say. We did have a friend
we used to work with who's a photographer, and she
did an exhibition on butchering chickens. I think primarily oh cool,
but all the photographs were of the the farmers and
(24:19):
butchers and chickens, and the goal of her goal.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Was to show like, you should know where your food
is coming from, what it took.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Yeah, if you can't deal with that, you probably shouldn't
need it.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Yeah mm hmmmm hmmm.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yeah, that's a crazy that's wild to me though, that
it was like a.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, like with an announcer, Well, there.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Was the leg.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
I yeah, no, I would I would, I would love to,
I would absolutely be. Yeah, but butchery is something that
I haven't gotten into personally, but because I feel like
I shouldn't really have access to very sharp objects all
the time, like, oh, I'm too accident prone for that.
But yeah, really really fascinating. Becca wrote post Buffalo Mozzarella episode,
(25:10):
you should look into the Neapolitan Pizza Association, the Associazone
Berrate Pizza Nipolatana. Yes, that's kind of it. Sorry, It's
an international board where they make Neapolitan pizza. Makers have
specific ingredients and techniques to be certified makers of Neapolitan pizza.
(25:31):
Buffalo mozzarella, a certain flower, double check me if I'm
remembering correctly, tomatoes, et cetera. They have to be from
the Campania region. There are approved suppliers that you have
to use. Is how serious certified Neapolitan pizza making is.
The Association is a big deal to be a part
of if you make pizzas. There's an episode or documentary
out there about this. I think Netflix or Hulu has
(25:53):
one with a good overview about it. Ooh yeah, oh yeah.
I don't think we got into that specific thing in
our in our pizza episode, but as y'all know, we
really adore like super specific food directives. Laid out by
(26:14):
traditional associations like this.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, yes, and I feel like I have seen some
of these ingredients where I know you're supposed to use this,
this brand, the.
Speaker 2 (26:26):
Feeler one, Yeah, the tomatoes from right here, no other
tomatoes exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, so I would love to learn more about that.
Pizza was such a big topic. I mean almost every
topic we do, but pizza was such a big one
that you could go down.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Oh yeah, as this comes out, we just had. We
just got back from Thanksgiving and I met someone I'd
never met before and he was like, oh, you're on
a food podcast.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
The first thing he asked was, have you done Hawaiian
pizza yet? It's so specific. No, I'm not, but we
will want it. But that there's just so many different types.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, and then you get to the specifics of yes,
it's also only it only can be part of this
organization if it follows these rules.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
So it's even more specific. Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh.
But that is really cool, and thank you for letting
us know.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Yeah, yeah, we'll have to check that out.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yes, absolutely well. Thanks to both of those listeners for
writing two us. If you like to try to as
you can our emails. Hello at sabrepod dot com.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
We're also on social media. We are currently on Twitter,
Facebook and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Sare is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows
thanks to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listen thing, and we hope that
lots more good things are coming your way.
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