April 26, 2024 • 38 mins
These wild members of the onion family have catapulted from local favorite to foodie phenomenon. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history of ramps.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie rec and I'm more on vocal Baum and
today we have an episode for you about ramps.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, which when you suggested, I thought were mushroom, So
I clearly did not even know with a are. So
this was a very learning experience for me. Was there
any particular reason they were on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Lord, Well, we are kind of in the middle of
ramp harvesting season as we record this in the in
the kind of early spring here in North America, And yeah,
so it's it's like a fresh product that's kind of
on my mind. And uh, yeah, I I I don't
(00:55):
know how being how like like being as tied into
the food world as you are, you managed to avoid
them up until now, because I think about about ten
or twelve years ago, they really hit my radar as
something that like all of these kind of uppity chefs
were talking about and all of a sudden, and I
(01:17):
was like, oh, what, like why is Tom Calikio telling
me about an Appalachian wild onion?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But yeah, I mean doing this research, I was kind
of shocked myself that I had missed it. I think
I don't know for the life of me how this
happened in my brain. I think I might have seen
them on menus have them even maybe, which makes me
sad because after doing this research, I really want them,
but also I'm like, maybe I should not. For some reason,
(01:52):
I thought they were mushrooms. Something some wires got crossed somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Two different things you that you would forge for were
harvest from the wild, I suppose which, whichever way you
want to say it, So sure, yeah, I mean you
might have had a dish of like mushrooms with ramps.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It's true, many things could have happened, but I was certain,
I said, with absolute certainty to you, oh the mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, she.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Did, y'all.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I sadly, ten to twelve years ago was right around
when I was figuring out that I should not consume aliums,
and so sadly I didn't have a chance to have
them before I realized this. So I have not had them,
and I'm extremely mad about that. Right now, I'm so
(02:50):
mad that I can't have aliums because I want to
eat these bad I had to look at so many
good cooking photos.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I'm mad for you, to be honest, that's Hm, I
feel bad.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know, it's it's the kind of it's the kind
of thing like like, it's not anaphylaxis, so you know,
it's just indigestion.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So I will probably subject to myself to that at
some point just because I'm like, well it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I don't know, you can set a whole day aside, no, yeah, yeah,
just plant it out. Yeah yeah, Well we'll see. Uh
So I guess this does bring us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I suppose it does.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, Ramps what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well? Ramps are a type of wild onion, a vegetable
that grows a small, skinny, white bulb and a few long,
broad leaves that are very pungent despite their small size.
The scent is like strong garlic, but the flavor, from
what I understand, is sweet hot, like an onion, and
the leaves are a little bit milder in flavor than
(04:08):
the bulbs or stems, but still pull any punchy and
have a choe, sort of like a leafy green. They
could be used fresh or cooked or preserved by processes
like pickling, and are used however you like, using onion
type or scallion type produce. Though the leaves are sturdier
than scallions, so you know, like chopped into salads or
(04:29):
cold dressings, fried up with eggs, or potatoes cooked down
into soups or stews or sauces roasted with other vegetables.
It's like the It's like someone concentrated and onion into
a smaller package. Again, I have not had them, but
from what I understand, it's like, you know, you know,
(04:49):
if you're mowing the lawn, or maybe just like walking
through the grass and it's a sunny spring day and
everything is just sweet and green and earthy around you,
and then you glance up and the sun strikes you
like hot and sharpen your eyes. Eating ramps is like that.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah. Again. I also, I don't know that I've had them,
but I'm pretty sure that I have. But it does
feel like a very spring, like concentrated spring, Yeah, which
has been present throughout its history. So excited to talk
about that, but yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, it would. There are sustainable ways to get them.
We'll congresate more about this in a moment. Okay, So
ramps are part of the Alium genus, along with right
onions and leaks and garlic and all of those similarly
pungent things. Relatively recently, researchers went ahead and separated what
was previously considered two subspecies of ramps into their own
(05:53):
separate species, the more common wide leaf type Alium tricocum
and the smaller narrow leaf type Alium berdickii. They also
have a lot of different names depending on the region,
wild leaks, wild garlics, spring onions, ramsons. They're not domesticated.
(06:13):
They grow best in their native environment of cool, moist,
deciduous forests, where they get lots of cover from like
big old trees with shady canopies, which then provide the
soil with a lot of nutrition by shedding those leaves
once a year. They'll grow in clusters in the forest
floor underneath big trees like maples, birch, and oak. In
(06:34):
the like eastern to midwestern parts of North America, but
especially in Appalachia and around the Great Lakes, ramps are
traditionally harvested wild, but specialty farms now produce them too,
so Botanically speaking, the main part of the plant is
this like narrow, cylindrical to bulbish underground storage unit. From
(06:58):
there true roots grow and then in the spring it'll
shoot up like one to four long green leaves with
usually like white purple stems, and the leaf is sort
of spear or spade shaped a little like lily leaves,
which makes sense since they're in the same family. They're
about like eight inches high and three inches wide that's
(07:19):
about twenty by eight centimeters. Those leaves will die back
within a couple of weeks, and for this reason, ramps
are sometimes referred to as spring ephemerals. All what a
lovely phrase that is. Woo So, throughout the warm months,
the plant will build up that storage bulb of sugars
(07:41):
and water and other stuff to help it last through
the winter and build up the energy to flower. After
a few years of this, after the leaves die back,
it'll send up a single tall flower stock that looks
like a wee misshapen little head of garlic, and will
then bloom with a cluster of tiny white green flowers.
If pollinated, they'll produce these tiny, round, shiny black seeds.
(08:06):
Ramps do often grow in clusters because a the seeds
aren't really spread by animals. They more often just grow
when and where they fall from the mother plant. Though
they are sturdy little things, so sometimes it takes like
a couple of years for them to germinate, and b
the plants can shoot off new roots and bulbs laterally
through the ground. A new plant isn't going to reach
(08:29):
a size worth harvesting for about five to seven years.
And because they take so long to grow and flower
and produce seeds, and because the root systems are often interconnected,
it's considered better for the plants to only harvest those
leaves and to leave the underground bits underground if you're
foraging in the wild. And this whole thing is super
(08:53):
interesting to me because it's just this case of like
a plant that's had very little human intervention over the millennia,
so like you can kind of see what edible plants
are like when we haven't selected for the traits that
make them easier and more worthwhile to deal with.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh that is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Normally, you know, we're like, oh yeah, like once every
seven years, no no, no, let's yeah, right, like every
other year at the most. Let's speed this along. I'm hungry. Yeah,
uh so.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
The leaves are more tender than leaks, but like sturdier
than most other onion greens, so they can stand up
to being sauteed or stir fried. The whole plant gets
milder when it's cooked, but some people prefer them wraw.
And yeah, you can use the strongly flavored juicy white
bit as you would garlic or onion or shallot, and
the also strong greens as you'd use green onions or
(09:46):
leaks or like like spinach, if spinach had a flavor.
I kept reading about like fresh caught trout being stuffed
with ramps and then grilled.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Mm hmm, oh I wanted so badly. Yep, yep, that's
the boat we're in.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, what about the nutrition on their own?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Ramps are pretty good for you. I mean, if you've
sauteed them in pork fat or breaded and deep fried them,
then that's a different that's a different kind of thing.
Oh that sounds real good. But yeah, yeah, I you
know that. You know, it's it's parham with some some
(10:40):
fat to to help fill you up, protein to help
keep you going.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did read some interesting articles that
were debating about whether or not ramps should be the
main course or the side dish, and it was, it was,
it was fascinating. Yeah, yeah, we might touch on that
more in the history section, but first we do have
(11:05):
some numbers for you, and a lot of them involve festivals.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yes, there are so many ramp festivals in areas where
they grow all right. One West Virginia website from the
early like twenty teen's collected info about fifty three of
them throughout like the Apple Aches alone. One in Richwood,
West Virginia, the proclaimed ramp capital of the world, has
(11:31):
a Feast of the Ramson every April that just celebrated
its eighty fifth year, started in nineteen thirty seven. The
menu from a few years back Ramps the Little Stinkers
will be served with ham, bacon, fried potatoes, brown beans,
cornbread and drink sasas fresh tea, coffee and cold drink.
(11:52):
Apparently about two thousand people attend every year.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Look delighted, I know, the little stinkers. The little stinkers
loved that so good. Here's the menu from another one
in Graysville, West Virginia. Ramp soup, fried potatoes, soup, beans, ham,
scrambled eggs, hot dogs, dessert, and raw ramps. All menu
items can be cooked with or without the ramps.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
All menu items.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I love that. Love that, I really loved some of
the some of the like puns or terms that some
of these festivals had, like ramp tramp or ramp up,
love it, love it And apparently during ramp season, some
local dentist's offices will put up signs asking patients to
(12:44):
reschedule if they've been indulging.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Wow, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, I've read that, Like like, you know, when ramp
season is on, because the whole town smells like onion.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Wow. Oh my gosh. This is Oh I'm going to
torment my friend about this. This is her nightmare. She
does not like onions smell.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Oh wow, she.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Comments Lauren on a subrededit about people who hate onions,
and a couple of years ago it got infiltrated by
people who liked. Oh no, I laughed so hard at her.
So I can imagine if I sit or to one
of these places. She also worked in dentistry, Oh my gosh,
(13:33):
she would be not happy.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Oh I love that. I mean I shouldn't. It's it's
luckily onions and garlic and stuff don't smell bad to
me like some other things like bell pepper smell like
poison to me. But sometimes if I'm cooking, I'll like,
like just just uh, what's it called?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Bro stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Like I had a garlic for my friends who can partake,
and it makes the kitchen smell so good. Anyway, anyway, ramps, Yeah,
well another little set of numbers for you. Ramps will
fetch prices of like twenty to thirty bucks a pound
at market, and that's been the case for the last
(14:14):
like decade or so before which they were much cheaper
because they were really only available in like, very particular places.
There are laws now in a lot of places where
ramps grow against harvesting them from public lands for commercial
sale or like the amount that you can harvest at
a given time. The US National Park Service does warn
(14:36):
that illegal harvesting of things like ramps from their lands
could could get you maximum sentences of six months of
jail time and a five thousand dollars fine.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, which is wild when you think about it. Yep.
And that is in part due to their meteoric rise
in recent years, which we will talk about when we
get into the history. But first we're going to take
a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and
(15:19):
we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. Okay, So,
Indigenous peoples in North America have a long history of
harvesting and consuming ramps in a variety of ways. The
Cherokee boiled our fried them, the Iroquois ate them, sprinkled
with salt and pepper, and the Ojibwe and Menominee preserved
parts of them to be consumed throughout the year. But
(15:42):
as we've been kind of saying, their appearance in spring
was a cause for celebration. It was something people liked
to mark and often in maybe a festival form, and
it was a welcome difference from dried and preserved foods
that people had been eating throughout the winter. Here was
(16:02):
this kind of announcement, Yeah, of spring, and it's very fresh.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah. They were often like kind of like the first
green thing to pop up, the first edible green thing
to pop up in the spring in some of these areas.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So yeah, and I can imagine like, oh, I get
to add this to my meat now or whatever. It's
just a very timely, very flavorful thing. And because they
do ramps do appear in spring, they've long had an
association of being kind of medicinal, almost a tonic where
they grow. Rams were used to treat all kinds of things,
(16:37):
but also they were just generally viewed as good for
you and your health. Again, I think in context too,
this is what we've been eating all winter. Here's a
new thing. Yeah. Yeah. Allegedly a local indigenous word for
dense ramp colonies is how Chicago got its name.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah. The Patawatami Kickapoo peoples around Lake Michigan had this
term that I don't know how to pronounce, but it
looks like chocko Chicago or something like that. Yeah, But
at any rate, the French sort of mangled that term,
and that's how we wound up with Chicago.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Again. I did not know that. Wow. Which yeah, speaking
of As Europeans colonized these areas where ramps grow, they
got turned onto them too. In nineteen thirty, jumping ahead,
a West Virginia man was labeled the King of ramps
due to his prowess and speed in harvesting them. Yeah,
(17:40):
and due to their importance in Appalachian towns and the
fact that they only grow for a short period of
time in the spring. Spring festivals around ramps or ramp
dinners started popping up in many of these towns, and
in some cases, the funds raised by these dinners helped
them build the town, like they were using them to
help build infrastructure, which is fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Those two subspecies, meanwhile, were first reported in nineteen forty six,
based partially on some correspondence between famed botanist Asa Gray
and this enthusiast J. H. Burdick, who had collected a
sample in eighteen seventy seven. The variant was named after
(18:27):
Burdick bertickie I a few years later, and then they
were given their own species taxonomy in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Okay, but if you're like me, and maybe you've been
a little perplexed by this topic, how did ramps go
from something that was so specific and localized to this
huge trendy thing that got national attention which has befuddled
(18:59):
and outright frustrated those that grew up with it, and
also a lot of our interviews I read they're also
they were reminiscing about negative stereotypes about Appalachian food and annoyed.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
That people are going, like, oh, I like that now though, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, one name that often comes up in the conversation,
especially in terms of New York, where I understand ramps
are huge, is farmer Rick Bishop. He is the proprietor
of Mountain Sweetberry Farm, which is located in upstate New York,
and he has a stand in Manhattan's popular farmers Market,
Union Square Green Market. He is most well known for
(19:40):
the food that he forages in the Catskills, including ramps,
and his ramps have made their way into dishes at
some of the most upscale restaurants in New York City,
like per Se and Grammercy. Tavern Media will report on
when his ramps have arrived at his stand. YEP. According
(20:03):
to grub Street, ramps had really solidified themselves as part
of New York restaurant culture by nineteen ninety six, when
ramps had become mainstays on some popular dishes at well
known restaurants, and you can look up examples. This is
way earlier than I thought, because again I don't know
how I missed.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, the mid nineties was when laws constraining wild
harvest started popping up. Prior to that, right, you pretty
much had to go collect ramps yourself or buy them
at a local roadside stand from someone who had But yeah,
this is when they were really gaining wider recognition and
(20:45):
interest and At the same time, the Internet stepped in
and changed to the way that we buy things.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yes.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
In nineteen ninety nine, Quebec authorities seized some four hundred
and forty four thousand bulbs from poachers from ramp poachers
and replanted.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Them wow.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yep. In two thousand and four, PBS produced documentary called
King of Stink Appalachian ramp Festivals. If go check that
one out if you would like to learn more about.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Some of these festivals. Yes, yes, and their popularity has
only grown since the nineties when they were first getting
this exposure. In recent years, ramps have exploded as a
quote trendy food item, to the point that in twenty
twenty one, a TikTok video about trying to find them
(21:45):
at markets went viral in New York. I believe. Yeah,
there are a couple of reasons for this. I do
think the main one is exclusivity. They are foraged wildly,
only in specific areas, and during one season. It's kind
of a short part of the season too.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
It's really only like a couple of weeks that those
leaves are.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Up, so yeah, yeah. Another thing I think is that
they've become somewhat of a status symbol amongst a certain
group of people. Many of these groups of people in cities,
they are on the menus at nice restaurants, knowing what
they are and when they are available as a marker
that you are a foody outside of communities that have
(22:29):
been eating them forever. So it's like I'm in the
know about this.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, yes, I guess alongside that is that they are
again new in heavy quotes to a lot of people
that have never had them before, and now we see
people cooking with them or eating them on TV or
on social media.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
There's a lot more exposure. As you said, So I
feel like that means you see this TikTok video, they're
trying so hard to get ramps. Oh, I want them to.
Another thing I would say is that it probably has
to do with the movement around eating forge foods, fresh
foods that has been romanticized in a lot of cases. Yeah,
(23:14):
and a lot of chefs did say that it builds
excitement for all of the new spring produce. So it
people are excited about it. I get what they're excited
about it, sure, yes, but that has caused a lot
of problems when you don't ask questions beyond. I just
want to try this thing. As the popularity of ramps
(23:37):
has grown outside of the communities that have long harvested them,
so have concerns about overharvesting, even at the high price
tag that you might find in cities. There are also
concerns that the money isn't getting back to the people
that harvest them, and isn't doing enough to slow over harvesting.
(23:58):
So yes, going back to Quebec, there was the study
that found that there was the vulnerability of this plant
that was really concerning. So Quebec banned the sale of
ramps in nineteen ninety five, instituting a minimum fine of
five hundred dollars for being caught with fifty or more ramps,
(24:19):
and that did lead to a black market for ramps
in that area.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, I probably should have just put that note right here,
but yeah, four hundred and forty four thousand ramp bulbs
seized in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yep, yep. For many years also, ramps were one of
the few plants people were permitted to recreationally harvest in
national parks because of their cultural roots, importance, and history.
But it got out of hand, causing the Great Smoky
Mountains National Park in North Carolina and Tennessee to ban
(24:57):
this practice in two thousand and two, which yeah, yeh
led to poaching, poaching of ramps. There are reports of
people trying to leave with bags and bags of ramps. Yeah.
And one problem with bands like this is that the
local indigenous peoples have long harvested from these areas, and
(25:18):
not just for food, but for long held medicinal, spiritual,
and cultural practices. Some bands have since been reversed in
part because of this, but it illustrates a larger part
of the problem at play here.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I also wanted to note because I read I read
in a couple of places many indigenous people I've spoken
about strongly disliking the term forager due to a violent
and aggressive pass around land ownership and lack of regard, care,
or knowledge for the land and the plants, and prefer
the term gathers instead. So just a note on that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, gathers or or harvests, I think, yeah, yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So too mitigate the negative effects of over harvesting, including
the impact to food ways and communities hundreds and hundreds
of years old. There have been attempts at ramp farming,
but none have really gone anywhere yet for and I
read there's like a couple things that are showing promise.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah yeah, I mean unfortunately again, right, Like, they have
this really specific type of biome that is like old
hardwood forests, and it's a little bit difficult to get
them to grow in other environments. There are some growing
guides online. I really want to plant ramps now I
can't even eat the things I really want to plant.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Some please do for me.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I'll let you know in like ten years when they're.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Ready to eat. I all be waiting.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah. Yes. There's also been pushes at education around harvesting
and regulations around sustainable harvesting. The Cherokee, for instance, recommend
cutting off the top the plant as opposed to pulling
the whole thing out. Bishop himself, who again is sort
of credited with this New York ramp scene, claims he
(27:12):
doesn't harvest from the same spot for five years and
rotates where he harvests from so plants can recover. So
it's one of those things that's frustrating because it's like
a lot of people just aren't doing their their part.
They just see something.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And they're excited about it and they go yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, or that they can make money off of it,
and again, I totally get it. I've done things like
this before where I was just like, I want that
on a menu. I haven't given it another thought that
I want it on the menu. But it is caused
such it's not been great for the ramps. Are people
who have been enjoying them, are using them for years
(27:52):
and years and years. So it is important to know
these things, and I think, like, you know, there are
sustainable ways to enjoy them, as you said.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Absolutely, yeah, you know, like if you it's I you know,
if you see them on a menu at a restaurant
and it doesn't mention how they were obtained, you can
always ask your server and if they were farmed or
harvested sustainably, then they should be able to give you
(28:22):
that information. And yeah, yeah, you know, right right. It's
it really does go back to to like to like
a respect for the land and for the other people
who you share it with, and for the lives of
these plants themselves, because they do gross so slowly and
it takes so long to get a good patch really going,
(28:45):
and even harvesting a little bit from a patch, can
damage it for or not, can set it back, you know,
like like ten or twenty years.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things I read. I
think it was from a very frustrated park ranger. He
was like, I know, it looks like you only took
a little but you're hurting all the roofs.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Underneath, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, so yeah, and so it's yeah, it's just one
of those things where it is kind of comical to
me that it's such an almost trendy like look so
fresh and let me get it, and but you're not
doing the part of the land, like taking care of
(29:29):
it that you seem to be so into. Again, this
is a certain subset of people I'm speaking about.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's just it's
just more complicated than that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well, listeners, we would love to hear
if you've been to one of these festivals. Oh yes,
you have gone to a ramp dinner. I need to
know about it.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I need to know about every single dish you had,
how it was prepared. If you've had ramps at a
fancy restaurant, I want to hear about those two. If
you've gone ramp collecting. Ah heck, yes, we need to
know all of it. Yes, yes, so please let us know.
But that is what we have to say about ramps
(30:17):
for now.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It is.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We do already have some listener mail for you though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick breakforward from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. Beautiful spring put in the face. Yeah,
that is what spring is like if you think about it,
especially if you have like a pollen. Oh yeah, Spring
announces itself.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, like hey here, I am right here. Where are you?
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I'm gonna make you spees cry and it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Don't you love flowers?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
They hate you. You gotta like it, you gotta respect it. Okay,
So we have another Mountain Dew mister mail, Jacob Road.
I was listening to your recent Mountain Dew episode and
(31:29):
you mentioned how they marketed that barefoot feeling to urban
youth after getting away from the hillbilly vibe slash marketing.
It could be that PEPSI was again following pop culture
trends with a toes in the sand message with beach
slash surfing culture that also had a wave of popularity
around the same time. Not saying this is the case
(31:50):
for sure, just a possibility. Thank you both for all
you do in the education and entertainment you provide from
one D and D player to another. I give you
perm to roll initiative at advantage when you next played. Well, Jacob,
as the DM, I deny this certainly, not never.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What if you get to roll.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And you you gonna be in trouble at advantage. You're
going to be fighting a very dangerous folly next time
we play.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
So you're right where we're like heading into like our
final boss fight kind of sort of one of them anyway, Yeah, yeah, geez,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I will say Jacob did send a beautiful image of
a mini like a miniature Dungeons and Dragons, and it
is wonderful. It's like a almost Elvis.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Elvis, el punk an Elvis or perhaps a a like
rock and roll Ye, no, like not just a rock gnome,
like a rock and roll gnome.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
M Oh, I bet it is that, because that's a
great Oh. I bet you're right. But it's got there's
a guitar, there's a drink, minister of some sort.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's great, beautiful, I love it, beautiful, I love.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It, and I think you're you're probably onto something. I've
never really thought about that, but that because I feel
like that surf culture came back around in the nineties
pretty hard. Oh yeah, y'all. Yeah, it was intense. It
was really intense. But that's a good point, especially when
I think about a lot of times I feel brands
(33:40):
are just always trying to one up. Oh you're doing this,
I can do it better over here sharing this, So
I think I think you're onto something.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, yeah, Tom wrote, I hope this finds you both well.
I'm finally going to try writing one of the emails
I do in my head while listening to your episodes.
Not quickly enough to limit it to just one episode though.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
First, carrot cake, without a doubt, my favorite kind of cake.
I prefer it as a sheet cake, but have certainly
never turned up my nose at a layer cake version.
I found that people tend to overdo the cream cheese
in between the layers. It is possible to have too
much of a good thing. Second, mountain dew. I drink
too much mountain dew it's all diet or no sugar varieties,
(34:26):
so I avoid those problems, but still too much. Code
Red was my favorite flavor, but I've never seen it
as diet, so I gave it up. It's supposed to
be around, but I've never seen it. Some of the
flavors are available in no sugar, including Baja Blast and Spark.
They're okay for a change, but I'm old and set
in my ways. Third not really about an episode, rather
a commercial. Y'all have been running a Delta commercial about
(34:49):
traveling for food. Have you considered doing that for groups?
Your compatriots, Miss Fry and Wilson host tours where they
tore historical places and sample local foods. You could host
tours sampling various local cuisines with some sight seeing between meals.
You wouldn't have to start with Italy or Japan. You
could spend a few days in New Orleans or Chicago
or Quebec do Hawaiian foods, then contrast various Caribbean cuisines
(35:14):
work your way up to overseas trips. People live to
travel and eat.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Hmmm, well, I will say this is definitely something we've discussed.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, And there's an opportunity that may or
may not come to fruition with this company that iHeartRadio
sometimes pairs with to do cruises, that you can really
mold to whatever your interests are. And of course in
(35:47):
our case it would be like what can we eat here?
Can it be everything? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So that so that's maybe on the horizon. We'll let
y'all know. We believe me, you will be sick of
hearing about it. Yes, it actually occurs.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yes, But that being said, you know, if you're like
me and you just sometimes I just look up things, yeah,
even though I know I'll never go. Yeah, but if
because again this is only in talks, no firm details
yet at all, but if you would like to suggest
where we might could go, yeah, I could write in
(36:25):
about that. Oh my goodness, please do yes, please do.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Also I meant to I don't want to like rat
you out, lord, but I meant to tell the listeners
after we did our Mountain Dew episode, you went and
got yourself a BA blast?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Is this true? It is? It is?
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I definitely like late night, ordered Taco Bell that night
and got myself a no sugar Baja Blast, and it
was refreshing and delightful.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
The crazy even quite a large too strong.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
It was gigantic, Yeah it was. I mean that's the
size apparently.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yes, when you get a bob blast, you must it's
a blast.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Come on, Yes, you can't have a six hounds blast.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, I'm glad. It was a good experience. Lovely. It
was lovely.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Uh And I and I do respect that about about
the wanting to limit your frosting exposure. I'm picky about
my level of frosting, like I want a little bit
with every bite. But I agree that a layer cake
can get intense with the frosting situation.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, I think because frosting can be so sweet. Oh
yeah that you. I prefer a much more balanced me too. Yeah,
like you can control your your frosting intake per bite. Yeah,
and that's how to do with the layricake.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
So I think we're all listening the same page on
that one.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, thank you so much to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can our emails hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod. And we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots of more good things are
(38:37):
coming your way
Hello, and welcome to save your prediction of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie rec and I'm more on vocal Baum and
today we have an episode for you about ramps.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, which when you suggested, I thought were mushroom, So
I clearly did not even know with a are. So
this was a very learning experience for me. Was there
any particular reason they were on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Lord, Well, we are kind of in the middle of
ramp harvesting season as we record this in the in
the kind of early spring here in North America, And yeah,
so it's it's like a fresh product that's kind of
on my mind. And uh, yeah, I I I don't
(00:55):
know how being how like like being as tied into
the food world as you are, you managed to avoid
them up until now, because I think about about ten
or twelve years ago, they really hit my radar as
something that like all of these kind of uppity chefs
were talking about and all of a sudden, and I
(01:17):
was like, oh, what, like why is Tom Calikio telling
me about an Appalachian wild onion?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
But yeah, I mean doing this research, I was kind
of shocked myself that I had missed it. I think
I don't know for the life of me how this
happened in my brain. I think I might have seen
them on menus have them even maybe, which makes me
sad because after doing this research, I really want them,
but also I'm like, maybe I should not. For some reason,
(01:52):
I thought they were mushrooms. Something some wires got crossed somewhere.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Two different things you that you would forge for were
harvest from the wild, I suppose which, whichever way you
want to say it, So sure, yeah, I mean you
might have had a dish of like mushrooms with ramps.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
It's true, many things could have happened, but I was certain,
I said, with absolute certainty to you, oh the mushrooms. Yeah, yeah, she.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Did, y'all.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
I sadly, ten to twelve years ago was right around
when I was figuring out that I should not consume aliums,
and so sadly I didn't have a chance to have
them before I realized this. So I have not had them,
and I'm extremely mad about that. Right now, I'm so
(02:50):
mad that I can't have aliums because I want to
eat these bad I had to look at so many
good cooking photos.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
I'm mad for you, to be honest, that's Hm, I
feel bad.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
You know, it's it's the kind of it's the kind
of thing like like, it's not anaphylaxis, so you know,
it's just indigestion.
Speaker 4 (03:16):
So I will probably subject to myself to that at
some point just because I'm like, well it's worth it.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
I don't know, you can set a whole day aside, no, yeah, yeah,
just plant it out. Yeah yeah, Well we'll see. Uh
So I guess this does bring us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I suppose it does.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
Yes, Ramps what are they?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Well? Ramps are a type of wild onion, a vegetable
that grows a small, skinny, white bulb and a few long,
broad leaves that are very pungent despite their small size.
The scent is like strong garlic, but the flavor, from
what I understand, is sweet hot, like an onion, and
the leaves are a little bit milder in flavor than
(04:08):
the bulbs or stems, but still pull any punchy and
have a choe, sort of like a leafy green. They
could be used fresh or cooked or preserved by processes
like pickling, and are used however you like, using onion
type or scallion type produce. Though the leaves are sturdier
than scallions, so you know, like chopped into salads or
(04:29):
cold dressings, fried up with eggs, or potatoes cooked down
into soups or stews or sauces roasted with other vegetables.
It's like the It's like someone concentrated and onion into
a smaller package. Again, I have not had them, but
from what I understand, it's like, you know, you know,
(04:49):
if you're mowing the lawn, or maybe just like walking
through the grass and it's a sunny spring day and
everything is just sweet and green and earthy around you,
and then you glance up and the sun strikes you
like hot and sharpen your eyes. Eating ramps is like that.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah. Again. I also, I don't know that I've had them,
but I'm pretty sure that I have. But it does
feel like a very spring, like concentrated spring, Yeah, which
has been present throughout its history. So excited to talk
about that, but yes, yes.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, it would. There are sustainable ways to get them.
We'll congresate more about this in a moment. Okay, So
ramps are part of the Alium genus, along with right
onions and leaks and garlic and all of those similarly
pungent things. Relatively recently, researchers went ahead and separated what
was previously considered two subspecies of ramps into their own
(05:53):
separate species, the more common wide leaf type Alium tricocum
and the smaller narrow leaf type Alium berdickii. They also
have a lot of different names depending on the region,
wild leaks, wild garlics, spring onions, ramsons. They're not domesticated.
(06:13):
They grow best in their native environment of cool, moist,
deciduous forests, where they get lots of cover from like
big old trees with shady canopies, which then provide the
soil with a lot of nutrition by shedding those leaves
once a year. They'll grow in clusters in the forest
floor underneath big trees like maples, birch, and oak. In
(06:34):
the like eastern to midwestern parts of North America, but
especially in Appalachia and around the Great Lakes, ramps are
traditionally harvested wild, but specialty farms now produce them too,
so Botanically speaking, the main part of the plant is
this like narrow, cylindrical to bulbish underground storage unit. From
(06:58):
there true roots grow and then in the spring it'll
shoot up like one to four long green leaves with
usually like white purple stems, and the leaf is sort
of spear or spade shaped a little like lily leaves,
which makes sense since they're in the same family. They're
about like eight inches high and three inches wide that's
(07:19):
about twenty by eight centimeters. Those leaves will die back
within a couple of weeks, and for this reason, ramps
are sometimes referred to as spring ephemerals. All what a
lovely phrase that is. Woo So, throughout the warm months,
the plant will build up that storage bulb of sugars
(07:41):
and water and other stuff to help it last through
the winter and build up the energy to flower. After
a few years of this, after the leaves die back,
it'll send up a single tall flower stock that looks
like a wee misshapen little head of garlic, and will
then bloom with a cluster of tiny white green flowers.
If pollinated, they'll produce these tiny, round, shiny black seeds.
(08:06):
Ramps do often grow in clusters because a the seeds
aren't really spread by animals. They more often just grow
when and where they fall from the mother plant. Though
they are sturdy little things, so sometimes it takes like
a couple of years for them to germinate, and b
the plants can shoot off new roots and bulbs laterally
through the ground. A new plant isn't going to reach
(08:29):
a size worth harvesting for about five to seven years.
And because they take so long to grow and flower
and produce seeds, and because the root systems are often interconnected,
it's considered better for the plants to only harvest those
leaves and to leave the underground bits underground if you're
foraging in the wild. And this whole thing is super
(08:53):
interesting to me because it's just this case of like
a plant that's had very little human intervention over the millennia,
so like you can kind of see what edible plants
are like when we haven't selected for the traits that
make them easier and more worthwhile to deal with.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Oh that is interesting.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Normally, you know, we're like, oh yeah, like once every
seven years, no no, no, let's yeah, right, like every
other year at the most. Let's speed this along. I'm hungry. Yeah,
uh so.
Speaker 5 (09:24):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
The leaves are more tender than leaks, but like sturdier
than most other onion greens, so they can stand up
to being sauteed or stir fried. The whole plant gets
milder when it's cooked, but some people prefer them wraw.
And yeah, you can use the strongly flavored juicy white
bit as you would garlic or onion or shallot, and
the also strong greens as you'd use green onions or
(09:46):
leaks or like like spinach, if spinach had a flavor.
I kept reading about like fresh caught trout being stuffed
with ramps and then grilled.
Speaker 5 (10:00):
Mm hmm, oh I wanted so badly. Yep, yep, that's
the boat we're in.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, what about the nutrition on their own?
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Ramps are pretty good for you. I mean, if you've
sauteed them in pork fat or breaded and deep fried them,
then that's a different that's a different kind of thing.
Oh that sounds real good. But yeah, yeah, I you
know that. You know, it's it's parham with some some
(10:40):
fat to to help fill you up, protein to help
keep you going.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did read some interesting articles that
were debating about whether or not ramps should be the
main course or the side dish, and it was, it was,
it was fascinating. Yeah, yeah, we might touch on that
more in the history section, but first we do have
(11:05):
some numbers for you, and a lot of them involve festivals.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
Yes, there are so many ramp festivals in areas where
they grow all right. One West Virginia website from the
early like twenty teen's collected info about fifty three of
them throughout like the Apple Aches alone. One in Richwood,
West Virginia, the proclaimed ramp capital of the world, has
(11:31):
a Feast of the Ramson every April that just celebrated
its eighty fifth year, started in nineteen thirty seven. The
menu from a few years back Ramps the Little Stinkers
will be served with ham, bacon, fried potatoes, brown beans,
cornbread and drink sasas fresh tea, coffee and cold drink.
(11:52):
Apparently about two thousand people attend every year.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
Look delighted, I know, the little stinkers. The little stinkers
loved that so good. Here's the menu from another one
in Graysville, West Virginia. Ramp soup, fried potatoes, soup, beans, ham,
scrambled eggs, hot dogs, dessert, and raw ramps. All menu
items can be cooked with or without the ramps.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
All menu items.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
I love that. Love that, I really loved some of
the some of the like puns or terms that some
of these festivals had, like ramp tramp or ramp up,
love it, love it And apparently during ramp season, some
local dentist's offices will put up signs asking patients to
(12:44):
reschedule if they've been indulging.
Speaker 5 (12:47):
Wow, oh.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Yeah, I've read that, Like like, you know, when ramp
season is on, because the whole town smells like onion.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Wow. Oh my gosh. This is Oh I'm going to
torment my friend about this. This is her nightmare. She
does not like onions smell.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Oh wow, she.
Speaker 1 (13:11):
Comments Lauren on a subrededit about people who hate onions,
and a couple of years ago it got infiltrated by
people who liked. Oh no, I laughed so hard at her.
So I can imagine if I sit or to one
of these places. She also worked in dentistry, Oh my gosh,
(13:33):
she would be not happy.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Oh I love that. I mean I shouldn't. It's it's
luckily onions and garlic and stuff don't smell bad to
me like some other things like bell pepper smell like
poison to me. But sometimes if I'm cooking, I'll like,
like just just uh, what's it called?
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Bro stuff?
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Like I had a garlic for my friends who can partake,
and it makes the kitchen smell so good. Anyway, anyway, ramps, Yeah,
well another little set of numbers for you. Ramps will
fetch prices of like twenty to thirty bucks a pound
at market, and that's been the case for the last
(14:14):
like decade or so before which they were much cheaper
because they were really only available in like, very particular places.
There are laws now in a lot of places where
ramps grow against harvesting them from public lands for commercial
sale or like the amount that you can harvest at
a given time. The US National Park Service does warn
(14:36):
that illegal harvesting of things like ramps from their lands
could could get you maximum sentences of six months of
jail time and a five thousand dollars fine.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Yeah, which is wild when you think about it. Yep.
And that is in part due to their meteoric rise
in recent years, which we will talk about when we
get into the history. But first we're going to take
a quick break for a word from our sponsor, and
(15:19):
we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. Okay, So,
Indigenous peoples in North America have a long history of
harvesting and consuming ramps in a variety of ways. The
Cherokee boiled our fried them, the Iroquois ate them, sprinkled
with salt and pepper, and the Ojibwe and Menominee preserved
parts of them to be consumed throughout the year. But
(15:42):
as we've been kind of saying, their appearance in spring
was a cause for celebration. It was something people liked
to mark and often in maybe a festival form, and
it was a welcome difference from dried and preserved foods
that people had been eating throughout the winter. Here was
(16:02):
this kind of announcement, Yeah, of spring, and it's very fresh.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
Yeah. They were often like kind of like the first
green thing to pop up, the first edible green thing
to pop up in the spring in some of these areas.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
So yeah, and I can imagine like, oh, I get
to add this to my meat now or whatever. It's
just a very timely, very flavorful thing. And because they
do ramps do appear in spring, they've long had an
association of being kind of medicinal, almost a tonic where
they grow. Rams were used to treat all kinds of things,
(16:37):
but also they were just generally viewed as good for
you and your health. Again, I think in context too,
this is what we've been eating all winter. Here's a
new thing. Yeah. Yeah. Allegedly a local indigenous word for
dense ramp colonies is how Chicago got its name.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
Yeah. The Patawatami Kickapoo peoples around Lake Michigan had this
term that I don't know how to pronounce, but it
looks like chocko Chicago or something like that. Yeah, But
at any rate, the French sort of mangled that term,
and that's how we wound up with Chicago.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Again. I did not know that. Wow. Which yeah, speaking
of As Europeans colonized these areas where ramps grow, they
got turned onto them too. In nineteen thirty, jumping ahead,
a West Virginia man was labeled the King of ramps
due to his prowess and speed in harvesting them. Yeah,
(17:40):
and due to their importance in Appalachian towns and the
fact that they only grow for a short period of
time in the spring. Spring festivals around ramps or ramp
dinners started popping up in many of these towns, and
in some cases, the funds raised by these dinners helped
them build the town, like they were using them to
help build infrastructure, which is fascinating to me.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
Those two subspecies, meanwhile, were first reported in nineteen forty six,
based partially on some correspondence between famed botanist Asa Gray
and this enthusiast J. H. Burdick, who had collected a
sample in eighteen seventy seven. The variant was named after
(18:27):
Burdick bertickie I a few years later, and then they
were given their own species taxonomy in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Okay, but if you're like me, and maybe you've been
a little perplexed by this topic, how did ramps go
from something that was so specific and localized to this
huge trendy thing that got national attention which has befuddled
(18:59):
and outright frustrated those that grew up with it, and
also a lot of our interviews I read they're also
they were reminiscing about negative stereotypes about Appalachian food and annoyed.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
That people are going, like, oh, I like that now though, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Well, one name that often comes up in the conversation,
especially in terms of New York, where I understand ramps
are huge, is farmer Rick Bishop. He is the proprietor
of Mountain Sweetberry Farm, which is located in upstate New York,
and he has a stand in Manhattan's popular farmers Market,
Union Square Green Market. He is most well known for
(19:40):
the food that he forages in the Catskills, including ramps,
and his ramps have made their way into dishes at
some of the most upscale restaurants in New York City,
like per Se and Grammercy. Tavern Media will report on
when his ramps have arrived at his stand. YEP. According
(20:03):
to grub Street, ramps had really solidified themselves as part
of New York restaurant culture by nineteen ninety six, when
ramps had become mainstays on some popular dishes at well
known restaurants, and you can look up examples. This is
way earlier than I thought, because again I don't know
how I missed.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, yeah, the mid nineties was when laws constraining wild
harvest started popping up. Prior to that, right, you pretty
much had to go collect ramps yourself or buy them
at a local roadside stand from someone who had But yeah,
this is when they were really gaining wider recognition and
(20:45):
interest and At the same time, the Internet stepped in
and changed to the way that we buy things.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
So yes.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
In nineteen ninety nine, Quebec authorities seized some four hundred
and forty four thousand bulbs from poachers from ramp poachers
and replanted.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Them wow.
Speaker 2 (21:11):
Yep. In two thousand and four, PBS produced documentary called
King of Stink Appalachian ramp Festivals. If go check that
one out if you would like to learn more about.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Some of these festivals. Yes, yes, and their popularity has
only grown since the nineties when they were first getting
this exposure. In recent years, ramps have exploded as a
quote trendy food item, to the point that in twenty
twenty one, a TikTok video about trying to find them
(21:45):
at markets went viral in New York. I believe. Yeah,
there are a couple of reasons for this. I do
think the main one is exclusivity. They are foraged wildly,
only in specific areas, and during one season. It's kind
of a short part of the season too.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
It's really only like a couple of weeks that those
leaves are.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
Up, so yeah, yeah. Another thing I think is that
they've become somewhat of a status symbol amongst a certain
group of people. Many of these groups of people in cities,
they are on the menus at nice restaurants, knowing what
they are and when they are available as a marker
that you are a foody outside of communities that have
(22:29):
been eating them forever. So it's like I'm in the
know about this.
Speaker 6 (22:33):
Yeah, yes, I guess alongside that is that they are
again new in heavy quotes to a lot of people
that have never had them before, and now we see
people cooking with them or eating them on TV or
on social media.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
There's a lot more exposure. As you said, So I
feel like that means you see this TikTok video, they're
trying so hard to get ramps. Oh, I want them to.
Another thing I would say is that it probably has
to do with the movement around eating forge foods, fresh
foods that has been romanticized in a lot of cases. Yeah,
(23:14):
and a lot of chefs did say that it builds
excitement for all of the new spring produce. So it
people are excited about it. I get what they're excited
about it, sure, yes, but that has caused a lot
of problems when you don't ask questions beyond. I just
want to try this thing. As the popularity of ramps
(23:37):
has grown outside of the communities that have long harvested them,
so have concerns about overharvesting, even at the high price
tag that you might find in cities. There are also
concerns that the money isn't getting back to the people
that harvest them, and isn't doing enough to slow over harvesting.
(23:58):
So yes, going back to Quebec, there was the study
that found that there was the vulnerability of this plant
that was really concerning. So Quebec banned the sale of
ramps in nineteen ninety five, instituting a minimum fine of
five hundred dollars for being caught with fifty or more ramps,
(24:19):
and that did lead to a black market for ramps
in that area.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yeah, I probably should have just put that note right here,
but yeah, four hundred and forty four thousand ramp bulbs
seized in nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Yep, yep. For many years also, ramps were one of
the few plants people were permitted to recreationally harvest in
national parks because of their cultural roots, importance, and history.
But it got out of hand, causing the Great Smoky
Mountains National Park in North Carolina and Tennessee to ban
(24:57):
this practice in two thousand and two, which yeah, yeh
led to poaching, poaching of ramps. There are reports of
people trying to leave with bags and bags of ramps. Yeah.
And one problem with bands like this is that the
local indigenous peoples have long harvested from these areas, and
(25:18):
not just for food, but for long held medicinal, spiritual,
and cultural practices. Some bands have since been reversed in
part because of this, but it illustrates a larger part
of the problem at play here.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
I also wanted to note because I read I read
in a couple of places many indigenous people I've spoken
about strongly disliking the term forager due to a violent
and aggressive pass around land ownership and lack of regard, care,
or knowledge for the land and the plants, and prefer
the term gathers instead. So just a note on that.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, gathers or or harvests, I think, yeah, yes, all right.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
So too mitigate the negative effects of over harvesting, including
the impact to food ways and communities hundreds and hundreds
of years old. There have been attempts at ramp farming,
but none have really gone anywhere yet for and I
read there's like a couple things that are showing promise.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
Yeah yeah, I mean unfortunately again, right, Like, they have
this really specific type of biome that is like old
hardwood forests, and it's a little bit difficult to get
them to grow in other environments. There are some growing
guides online. I really want to plant ramps now I
can't even eat the things I really want to plant.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Some please do for me.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, I'll let you know in like ten years when they're.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Ready to eat. I all be waiting.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
Yeah. Yes. There's also been pushes at education around harvesting
and regulations around sustainable harvesting. The Cherokee, for instance, recommend
cutting off the top the plant as opposed to pulling
the whole thing out. Bishop himself, who again is sort
of credited with this New York ramp scene, claims he
(27:12):
doesn't harvest from the same spot for five years and
rotates where he harvests from so plants can recover. So
it's one of those things that's frustrating because it's like
a lot of people just aren't doing their their part.
They just see something.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
And they're excited about it and they go yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Yeah, or that they can make money off of it,
and again, I totally get it. I've done things like
this before where I was just like, I want that
on a menu. I haven't given it another thought that
I want it on the menu. But it is caused
such it's not been great for the ramps. Are people
who have been enjoying them, are using them for years
(27:52):
and years and years. So it is important to know
these things, and I think, like, you know, there are
sustainable ways to enjoy them, as you said.
Speaker 2 (28:00):
Absolutely, yeah, you know, like if you it's I you know,
if you see them on a menu at a restaurant
and it doesn't mention how they were obtained, you can
always ask your server and if they were farmed or
harvested sustainably, then they should be able to give you
(28:22):
that information. And yeah, yeah, you know, right right. It's
it really does go back to to like to like
a respect for the land and for the other people
who you share it with, and for the lives of
these plants themselves, because they do gross so slowly and
it takes so long to get a good patch really going,
(28:45):
and even harvesting a little bit from a patch, can
damage it for or not, can set it back, you know,
like like ten or twenty years.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah, that's one of the things I read. I
think it was from a very frustrated park ranger. He
was like, I know, it looks like you only took
a little but you're hurting all the roofs.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Underneath, right exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Yeah, so yeah, and so it's yeah, it's just one
of those things where it is kind of comical to
me that it's such an almost trendy like look so
fresh and let me get it, and but you're not
doing the part of the land, like taking care of
(29:29):
it that you seem to be so into. Again, this
is a certain subset of people I'm speaking about.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's uh, it's just it's
just more complicated than that.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well, listeners, we would love to hear
if you've been to one of these festivals. Oh yes,
you have gone to a ramp dinner. I need to
know about it.
Speaker 2 (29:57):
I need to know about every single dish you had,
how it was prepared. If you've had ramps at a
fancy restaurant, I want to hear about those two. If
you've gone ramp collecting. Ah heck, yes, we need to
know all of it. Yes, yes, so please let us know.
But that is what we have to say about ramps
(30:17):
for now.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
It is.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
We do already have some listener mail for you though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick breakforward from
our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with listeners. Beautiful spring put in the face. Yeah,
that is what spring is like if you think about it,
especially if you have like a pollen. Oh yeah, Spring
announces itself.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah, like hey here, I am right here. Where are you?
Speaker 1 (31:02):
I'm gonna make you spees cry and it's gonna be great.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
Don't you love flowers?
Speaker 1 (31:08):
They hate you. You gotta like it, you gotta respect it. Okay,
So we have another Mountain Dew mister mail, Jacob Road.
I was listening to your recent Mountain Dew episode and
(31:29):
you mentioned how they marketed that barefoot feeling to urban
youth after getting away from the hillbilly vibe slash marketing.
It could be that PEPSI was again following pop culture
trends with a toes in the sand message with beach
slash surfing culture that also had a wave of popularity
around the same time. Not saying this is the case
(31:50):
for sure, just a possibility. Thank you both for all
you do in the education and entertainment you provide from
one D and D player to another. I give you
perm to roll initiative at advantage when you next played. Well, Jacob,
as the DM, I deny this certainly, not never.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
What if you get to roll.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
And you you gonna be in trouble at advantage. You're
going to be fighting a very dangerous folly next time
we play.
Speaker 4 (32:22):
So you're right where we're like heading into like our
final boss fight kind of sort of one of them anyway, Yeah, yeah, geez,
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (32:33):
I will say Jacob did send a beautiful image of
a mini like a miniature Dungeons and Dragons, and it
is wonderful. It's like a almost Elvis.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Elvis, el punk an Elvis or perhaps a a like
rock and roll Ye, no, like not just a rock gnome,
like a rock and roll gnome.
Speaker 1 (33:03):
M Oh, I bet it is that, because that's a
great Oh. I bet you're right. But it's got there's
a guitar, there's a drink, minister of some sort.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
Yeah, it's great, beautiful, I love it, beautiful, I love.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
It, and I think you're you're probably onto something. I've
never really thought about that, but that because I feel
like that surf culture came back around in the nineties
pretty hard. Oh yeah, y'all. Yeah, it was intense. It
was really intense. But that's a good point, especially when
I think about a lot of times I feel brands
(33:40):
are just always trying to one up. Oh you're doing this,
I can do it better over here sharing this, So
I think I think you're onto something.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yeah, yeah, Tom wrote, I hope this finds you both well.
I'm finally going to try writing one of the emails
I do in my head while listening to your episodes.
Not quickly enough to limit it to just one episode though.
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (34:05):
First, carrot cake, without a doubt, my favorite kind of cake.
I prefer it as a sheet cake, but have certainly
never turned up my nose at a layer cake version.
I found that people tend to overdo the cream cheese
in between the layers. It is possible to have too
much of a good thing. Second, mountain dew. I drink
too much mountain dew it's all diet or no sugar varieties,
(34:26):
so I avoid those problems, but still too much. Code
Red was my favorite flavor, but I've never seen it
as diet, so I gave it up. It's supposed to
be around, but I've never seen it. Some of the
flavors are available in no sugar, including Baja Blast and Spark.
They're okay for a change, but I'm old and set
in my ways. Third not really about an episode, rather
a commercial. Y'all have been running a Delta commercial about
(34:49):
traveling for food. Have you considered doing that for groups?
Your compatriots, Miss Fry and Wilson host tours where they
tore historical places and sample local foods. You could host
tours sampling various local cuisines with some sight seeing between meals.
You wouldn't have to start with Italy or Japan. You
could spend a few days in New Orleans or Chicago
or Quebec do Hawaiian foods, then contrast various Caribbean cuisines
(35:14):
work your way up to overseas trips. People live to
travel and eat.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
Hmmm, well, I will say this is definitely something we've discussed.
Speaker 2 (35:27):
Oh yeah, yeah, And there's an opportunity that may or
may not come to fruition with this company that iHeartRadio
sometimes pairs with to do cruises, that you can really
mold to whatever your interests are. And of course in
(35:47):
our case it would be like what can we eat here?
Can it be everything? Thank you?
Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So that so that's maybe on the horizon. We'll let
y'all know. We believe me, you will be sick of
hearing about it. Yes, it actually occurs.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Yes, But that being said, you know, if you're like
me and you just sometimes I just look up things, yeah,
even though I know I'll never go. Yeah, but if
because again this is only in talks, no firm details
yet at all, but if you would like to suggest
where we might could go, yeah, I could write in
(36:25):
about that. Oh my goodness, please do yes, please do.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
Also I meant to I don't want to like rat
you out, lord, but I meant to tell the listeners
after we did our Mountain Dew episode, you went and
got yourself a BA blast?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
Is this true? It is? It is?
Speaker 4 (36:46):
I definitely like late night, ordered Taco Bell that night
and got myself a no sugar Baja Blast, and it
was refreshing and delightful.
Speaker 1 (36:59):
The crazy even quite a large too strong.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
It was gigantic, Yeah it was. I mean that's the
size apparently.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yes, when you get a bob blast, you must it's
a blast.
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Come on, Yes, you can't have a six hounds blast.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Yeah, I'm glad. It was a good experience. Lovely. It
was lovely.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Uh And I and I do respect that about about
the wanting to limit your frosting exposure. I'm picky about
my level of frosting, like I want a little bit
with every bite. But I agree that a layer cake
can get intense with the frosting situation.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
Yeah, I think because frosting can be so sweet. Oh
yeah that you. I prefer a much more balanced me too. Yeah,
like you can control your your frosting intake per bite. Yeah,
and that's how to do with the layricake.
Speaker 5 (38:01):
So I think we're all listening the same page on
that one.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
Well, thank you so much to both of these listeners
for writing in. If you would like to write to us,
you can our emails hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
We are also on social media. You can find us
on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod. And we
do hope to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots of more good things are
(38:37):
coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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