January 12, 2022 • 30 mins
This fresh, soft, cheese-adjacent product is made with milk’s whey instead of curds. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and science of ricotta.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm Lauren focal Bum and today
we have an episode for you about ricotta. Yes, is
there any particular reason this one was on your mind? Lauren?
I was thinking about a cheese, um, and that I
mean usually I'm thinking about a cheese to be honest,
but no, no no, no, I was thinking about doing another
(00:29):
cheese related topic. Um. And then after I ran through
an embarrassing number of cheeses that we've already done, that
I had forgotten that we had already done, I landed ONCT.
We have talked about cheese quite a bit. We we have,
we have after well, because we we did a couple
of times early on and then we really we we
(00:51):
we really messed up for a minute and and didn't
for the longest. D Yeah, And so now I'm trying.
I'm trying to make a for lost time. You know. Definitely. Oh,
I'm on board. I actually don't have too much experience
with ricata, but I have had some amazing ricata like
so good, and some amazing things that have ricotta in them.
(01:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, It's one of my favorite ingredients
in things. Yeah. Sure. And there's a local restaurant that
does a really good I think it's Housemaide Ricotta. It's
just like a little app with like toasted bread, some
olive oil, some ricotta, maybe some fresh herbs, and they're
oh so good. Yes, I've definitely had some just straight
(01:34):
up fresh ricotta around Atlanta and been stunned, moved, moved. Yes,
that's a good way. I have also had some very
very sad ricata. But yeah, sad ricotta is sad, very sad. Yes,
kind of dry and grainy. M or I had one
(01:54):
that was like the opposite. It was but not in
a good way. You don't want food that's bad, leaking, No, never,
And I wanted to tell this story. I think I've
told this story before on the show, but I love
it so much because it's so indicative of who I am. Okay, okay,
(02:15):
So there's a guy in my phone who is just Ricotta.
I don't know his real name. I think it might
be Max Um. Anyway, if you're listening, sorry about it.
But a couple of years ago, back when we were
still at the office, UM, we used to go pretty frequently.
(02:36):
We would have an office party across the street at
a restaurant across the street, and the invitation said that
there would be an ice luge there. Oh right, the
ice luge. Now, me being me, not thinking it through,
(02:56):
I thought this was going to be a huge ice
sculpture that I could log down. Yes, you thought it
was a luge for humans. Yes, so of course wore
the appropriate attire, which is my black kind of ski suit,
thermal ware, black shoes. I show up at the party
(03:19):
the ice lusion question. I was looking around, like where
is it? It was a bit smaller I thought it
would be. It was like it was a snowman, right, Yes,
it was an ice sculpture of a snowman. But the
luge part was you put a shot in there of
(03:39):
an alcohol of your choice. So I guess you could
put any liquid really and it would go down through
this like tunnel in the ice and then be really
cold on the other side. So it was it was
illused for a shot of alcohol. It was not. It
was not human. It was not for I mean it
was for humans tech really but not ye. Yes, but
(04:02):
I showed up so ready, completely believing that at a
holiday party they were going to let employees who may
or may not be getting tipsy slide down. But anyway,
people were scared to use this ice luge and I
sort of ended up over there explaining it to people.
(04:23):
And because I was wearing all black, I think people
ended up thinking that I hadn't met Because it's kind
of a combination of offices that were there. I thought
I was a waiter. Yeah, I started to get tips.
I made some money that night. But I also met
this fellow who was in a Christmas tuxedo. We keep
(04:45):
talking and he just called himself Forcata. It was an
interesting night for a lot of reasons. I I do
that is like one of the most Annie Reese stories
that I think, I think I know of. Yeah, I
(05:08):
think that in the time I tried to comfort the
I R. S lady because she was so stressed. Oh no,
but that's pretty that's up there, and that's up there. Yeah. Yeah,
and especially for our purposes, like food was involved. Yes,
that cracks me up that I thought that I was
going to night. And I do remember when you first
(05:34):
told me this story. I was like, Annie, I'm so ready.
Everyone else was in like holiday sweaters share yeah, in
the cocktail cocktail tire share Yeah, And I have pictures
on my fridge from that night, so I do think
of it rather often. I say, had a photo booth there,
(05:54):
Oh that's amazing. Yes, yes, anyway, um back to cheese.
You can see, yes, our many past episodes we've done
on cheese is Cheddar, Brie, rock fair, rock floor, Grier,
Gouda process cheese. I think there's some more in there,
but those are the ones that came to my mind.
And yogurt I would say, yeah, and butter butter, sure, yes, yes,
(06:17):
but okay, I guess this brings us to our question. Ricotta.
What is it? Well, ricotta is a type of fresh cheese, unaged, spreadable, soft, mild,
a little bit sweet, that's actually made from whey instead
(06:37):
of kurds. So it's, uh, it's bizarro cheese, right like
like Bizarro from Superman. Like it's recognizably cheese. But it's
also sort of the opposite of cheese, right right, which
I found very confusing for a lot of this research. Yeah,
(06:57):
I have no idea. Oh it's so cool. Okay, alright, alright,
let's talk about cheese making. So when you create most
types of cheese, say say cheddar or historically more relevant here,
pecorino or provolone or mozzarella. One of the first steps
is to take your milk and um d emulsify it coagulated. Yeah,
(07:19):
that is to to separate out the fats and the
fat soluble stuff which is going to be the curds,
from the water and the water soluble stuff, which is
going to be the way. You then take the curds
and process them however you'd like to do to create
your cheese, maybe like heat it and need it into
springing mozzarella, maybe press it into wheels and age it
(07:41):
for most other things. But the way is a byproduct here. Um.
But it is still full of good stuff, lots of proteins,
some sugars, a little bit of stray fats probably for example.
Real buttermilk is the way collected from butter when you
churn the liquids out. And ricotta UH is made from
(08:02):
the way that separates out from cheese curds. Um. You
just you just take that way and heat it to
a boil. And the proteins, the proteins in way are keratins,
not casin's. The casins are locked up in the curds. UM.
So when heated, uh, when when when you heat that way,
the caratins will d nature, first unraveling and then clumping
(08:23):
together and firming up into a soft mass, sort of
like a like a soft cooked egg, but but creamier
in texture than a soft cook egg would be. Egg
is more bouncy, you know. Um. So then you you
ladle that stuff out and drain it, and within a
few minutes you've got ricotta. Um. The word ricotta means
recooked COLDA cooked and re RECOLDA yeah, it's it's just
(08:46):
eaten fresh. Yes, And I love it. Also, I love
that we did cevich and ricotta back to back. Yea
like See c cevich for more information about protein coagulation.
If you'd like to, and we know you do, you
would like to, I'm sure I'm sure one of you
(09:09):
does out there somewhere. Um, okay, so yeah you can.
You can use any type of milk you'd like to
make ricotta. Sheep's milk is the most traditional, but cow
milk is very common these days, and goat and buffalo
milks are used to Some makers will add a little
bit of fresh milk in with the way when they
cook it for added fats and casin's. And if you
(09:30):
do this. You probably also add something acidic to the
boil to to help the casins coagulate. Sometimes you might
add something acidic. Anyway, it's kind of this is a
delicate I'm only reporting the facts. I like. Yeah, yeah,
I think usually if you're if you're making it fresh, fresh,
(09:53):
fresh and using just why the traditional method is to
not add anything acidic. Um. But right, I'm not going
to tell you how to do it. I have very
little effect on your life at any rate. Um. The
result is cheese that's soft and creamy, with a with
a fine grain and a touch of this almost caramel
(10:14):
sweetness from the cooked milk. It's used most often as
an ingredient in savory or sweet dishes, rather than being
eaten on its own. It's a filling in pastas, from
dumpling types like ravioli to layering types like lasagna, and
a filling in desserts like canolli. You can dollip it
on pizza, or spread it on toast with herbs and salt,
(10:34):
or use it in sauces or as a garnish. You
can add it into pasta dose like njoki. You can
cook it into egg dishes like a savory keyshort scramble,
or into dessert custards or cheesecake. You can also salt
an age ricotta into a crumbly solid product called ricotta
salata or salt age and smoke it to make a
(10:56):
crumbly solid, smoky ricotta of fucata. Sure sure both both
of these products are right more and more like a
more like a Parmesan kind of situation, and that they
will be served um sliced as on cheese boards or
shaved over dishes. You can make vegan ricotta from things
(11:18):
like cashew or almond or tofu blended into like a
creamy whip given flavor with something like nutritional yeast, and
it's easy to make it home. Uh And I have
read opinions that homemade is really the only way to
go if you do not have access to a local
cheesemaker who makes it, as the mass produced ricotta is
less fresh and probably uses stabilizers and thickeners and additives
(11:40):
to mimic the fresh flavor and preserve the texture. That
was in Serious Eats that I read that, and they've
got a good recipe as they usually do. It calls
for you to hold the cheese at temperature for about
twenty minutes to cook it to the correct texture and flavor.
So interesting. Yeah, this has been one of my favorite
things on on doing the show, and doing the show
(12:02):
is like, oh I can make that. Yeah things I
never would have thought to make it home, and now
I really want it's yeah, you can just go buy
some milk and do it, and I want to. I
almost got my phone out in the middle of this
and put it on my list because this is I'm
the craving is fitting hard right now? Yeah, yeah, gonna
(12:23):
I think who knows, who knows if I will remember
the next time I make it to a grocery store.
That's why you gotta put it on the list. Okay, okay,
well what about the nutrition. It does depend on how
you make it, but ricotta tends to be lower in
fat than cheese is made with curds, but with the
(12:44):
same good punch of protein, so it's pretty good for you. Um.
I mean, you know, eat a vegetable, maybe maybe add
a little bit more fat to help keep going. No,
this is I think you. I really think you're a
trend setter, Lauren, because I've noticed a lot of people
over the past couple well years, have been signing things
to me or things that I'm reading with Drink some water,
(13:07):
eat a vegetable. Drink some water, eat a vegetable. It's
always it's good. It's just solidly good advice. Yes, generally,
I'm always like, there's got to be an outlier. Oh, well,
I mean drinking too much. Well, I mean you know
you have to urinate as well, Like never just drink
water and try to hold it. That's bad, that's bad
for you. But and now we've ruined drink some water.
(13:32):
That's just kidding. That is that is the one outlier.
Don't do that, that's bad. But yeah. The third third
thing that I see people out on Twitter lately is
clean your makeup brushes. And I think that, Yeah, those
three pieces of advice to there are like pretty ultimate. Yeah, yeah, sincerely,
best wishes gone, that's what we need. I love it. Yes, well,
(13:57):
we do have some numbers for you do. As of
twenty nineteen, the value of the global ricotta market was
estimated to be some eight hundred and seventy three million
dollars in growing. In the United States, the vast majority
of ricotta was sold as private label um like a
like a store brand versus a name brand. Huh. And
(14:21):
as of some two hundred and forty three million pounds
were being produced in the United States every year um
and about a quarter of American households were purchasing it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
There is a festival that's been running for fifty years
in Sicily in a town called vezini Um called the
(14:43):
Sagra Dellacata del Formaggio. And yeah, just just the festival
of ricotta and cheese. It's it's dedicated to folklore and
gastronomy and ricotta and other cheeses. It's its nickname is
the Feast of Flavors and Knowledge. Oh, yes, right, there's
(15:03):
a parade. I am not sure what is going on
with this during these are pandemic times, but it has
traditionally been held in late April, and I do not
understand why I'm not there right now. I know we've
got to add that to our Yes, our list are
ever growing list of festivals we must have end Flavors
and Knowledge. Yes, yes, m There is also a smoked
(15:30):
ricotta festival in Calabria in a town called um Mamola.
I think every year on the first Sunday in June.
And I'm given to understand that for this and other
feast days in that area, the smoked tricotta is made
into the shape of male genitalia in celebration of fertility.
(15:51):
Oh and it is made from goat milk. And uh,
I do not have a date on this, but as
of one waiting for your a Italian travel website UM
that was talking up this event. Uh, it explained that
there are two thousand and fifty goats registered in the area.
(16:13):
So there you go. I gotta register your goats. I
get I guess something could have been getting lost in translation.
But well, listeners, let us know absolutely, yes, absolutely, um,
and we do have quite a bit of pretty contentious
history for you. We do, and we're going to get
(16:35):
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break forward from our sponsor and we're back. Thank
you sponsoring, Yes, thank you, yes, um. So wof just
(16:57):
yeah yeah yeah. So Unfortunately, there's not too much information
that I could find from reliable sources I'll say, um
about ricotta. And so I was thinking about to make
this longer. Okay, well, maybe we can do some discussion
around um, all of those foods that you listed, Lauren.
(17:21):
But the fun thing about all those foods you listed.
Is that everyone that I was like, oh, maybe lasagna.
The first five articles are like, no, it's from here,
and I swear I won't hear anything else, and other
person oh no, and ricotta doesn't even go in there.
Like you're like, oh no, okay, all right, never mind
(17:41):
different episodes. Yeah, yes, but here's a little bit about
like the origin of cheese a little bit, A little
bit um. So, Ricotta's origins are, yes, very difficult to
trace um, just as the origin of cheese is in general.
But cheese is quite old, and some stories speculate that
(18:03):
for as long as humans have been making cheese, they
have also been using the left over way, and potentially
in a way that we might think of as ricotta. Sure. Yes,
According to some sources, people during Neolithic times may have
been the first to realize that cooking cheese bry products
resulted in even more cheese or cheese like product. Thing.
(18:25):
I got so confused about whether or not to call
orcotta cheese. Yeah, yeah, since we call it ricotta cheese
in like like American parlance, I was like, I'll go
with it. But bizarro cheese is how I've started thinking
about it for sure, and and in Italian they do
make the distinction. It's like ricotta and cheese. It's not right,
(18:47):
It's not ricotta and other cheeses. Mm hmmm hmm. Well
I like bizarrow cheese. UM, so I think you, Laura,
and I'll stick with that. Many historians will that ricotta
arrived in Italy after Arabs from the Middle East conquered
the island of Sicily in the early eight presumably bringing
(19:07):
their practices around using spare way with them um. Through
things like trade and conquest, these practices and the resulting
ricotta made their way further into Italy UM and it
really took hold, so much so that by the Middle
Ages ricatta was common throughout Rome and the surrounding area.
At the time, sheep were the primary form of livestock um,
(19:30):
first introduced to the island by the Greeks in the
early See centuries, so the ricotta there was most often
a brye product of sheep cheeses, though that of course
would change based on where the cheese was being made
in the livestock that was prominent there. Another piece of
this is that sheep's milk had relatively few uses at
the time in places like Rome, where it sometimes was
(19:52):
used as a drink um in sacrificial rights. And yeah,
to make cheese. They fermented the cheese over one to
two days and warm temperatures to make a more acidic
way that they would then use to make ricotta. Yes, um,
and just a kind of big astris on all of this.
This is a fun one where I had to look
(20:12):
up like every fact that people seem to assume was
just we all know this to be true. Yes, so
kind of the The idea from this historical perspective is
that she's originated somewhere in like the Middle East, um,
and then migrated up to Sicily, but because Sicily just
(20:34):
loved it and Italy kind of ran with it. A
lot of the history is presented from like this is
when it was in Sicily and that's it. Okay, yeah, yeah,
sure m um. Yes, but perhaps ricotta was being made
in Sicily far earlier than this. A Greek author who
wrote just a whole lot about food in general in
(20:55):
the first and second century CE mentioned a quote tender
cheese at a banquet, which may have been ricotta. He
also mentions a well known cheese from Sicily which may
have been ricotta. Some folks looking into it believe that
the name itself and it's Arabic origins is the reason.
So many people think, um, that it came from the
time Sicily was ruled by the Arab So because a
(21:17):
lot of people think that the word the origins of
it are Arabic, that that might be why people think
that that's where it came from. Maybe that's all it is.
It just might be a coincidence. Huh m hmm um.
And yes, different episode for sure. But popular legend goes
that the cannoby was first invented during this time during
(21:39):
the Arab rule of Sicily. But yeah, I looked into it.
I was like, okay, no, come back later, not today, cannoli, Yeah,
not today. Two of the earliest known written records of
ricotta do come out of Sicily. One of them came
out of the thirteenth century when Sicilian King Frederick the
Second and his hunting party allegedly we're out the hunts
(22:00):
and stumbled upon the hut of a farmer making ricotta.
They were hungry, so they asked the farmer for some
of what he was making. Frederick put the hot ricotta
on top of his loaf of bread, advising the rest
of the party to use a spoon or else risk
losing some of the ricotta. Um, sounds very like legend
stuff to me. Who knows? And the first illustration of
(22:25):
recanta making appeared in a medival health book, Um, though
it was a Latin translation of an eleventh century work
by air physician even Putlan. Yeah, a lot of confusion
going on in this author or Tensi Orlando, published a
work about a man traveling a great distance to obtain
(22:46):
the best ricotta in the world. And it was quite
a lengthy title in Italian. So I did not put
it in here because I would butcher it. Ricotta made
it to the US with a wave of Italian immigrants
in the early nine hundreds, though it's quite possible, Um,
people were making it or something similar before that. That's
just sort of when the record started showing up about
(23:10):
it that I could find anyway, because again this one
was kind of hard to track down. Some some good
sources for Yeah, And I mean you know that there
are certainly other cheese type products bizarro cheeses, if you will,
made in other areas, in other cultures. For example, the
category of like of like brown caramelized cheeses um from
(23:32):
Norway are made of way really really good interesting stuff. Oh,
we definitely need to do an episode about that. But
but yeah, it's it's it's it's difficult with some of these,
especially fresh products, to to get a really good historical
record because they're so often made and consumed on site,
(23:53):
and you know, not by the sort of people who
are also busy writing stuff down. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
But that being said, listeners, if you have any more
information or if you have specific experience from your parts
of the world, we would love absolutely yes. So that
(24:17):
is what we have to say about Ricotta for now,
but we do have some mail from listeners who have
already written in not about ricotta um, but yes, we
will get into that as soon as we get back
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(24:37):
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with just mal. But you would have been
to just say it normally, to be honest, Yeah, I've
always wanted to do that, but I I always check
it out because it would it would be hilarious because
(24:58):
you would try to pick up what I'm doing. I
would just I'd be waiting. I would be like, I
don't know, it's just oh, it's just over. We have
some pretty funny if we ever did like an outtake show,
we have some pretty funny listener mail outtakes, my favorite
being that time I so enthusiastically just shouted eggnog. We're
(25:23):
talking about eggnog and instead of saying listener mail, it's
just like I was like, oh, it startled me. Usually
I'm not I'm not very easily startled. I think that
you I really put my heart in there. Yeah yeah,
and I take the yeah, the very startled, not so startled.
(25:45):
We balance it out. But I think the funniest part
of it was you had to tell me I had
done something incorrectly, like there we know anyway, Kelsey Rope.
As a sobriety enthusiast, I have learned new better for
(26:06):
me versions of my old boozy favorites. For the Toddy.
In particular, I love one to two tea spoons each,
maple syrup or other sweetener, lemon juice, and dry ground
ginger go a bit heavier for fresh grated mixed into
approximately five million eaters boiling water. The sober Toddy really
scratches the itch when a warming drink is needed, but
won't leave you buzzed or caffeinated. It's very soothing to
(26:28):
inhale the steam when I'm under the weather too. Not medicinal,
but definitely comforting. Oh yeah, yeah, I know, that sounds lovely.
I I do one of my one of my very
favorite things in the winter, especially right like if I'm
if I'm feeling a little bit under the weather, it's
too great fresh ginger and just drink that with hot water. Yeah,
(26:50):
just make a little It's nice. How made ginger tea? Yeah?
So I mean I like really um, I like really
dry and spicy things and yeah, you get the good
good injure with a good bite. And I'm just like,
oh healthy, Yeah, it sounds great. Okay, I'm into it.
I've been too both of these things. Uh. Valerie wrote,
(27:12):
m hmmm. I was expecting the Marzipan episode to discuss
the question of some people love this, but to me
it tastes like earwax. What am I doing wrong? I
am baffled and would be glad of ideas. Is it
an acquired taste that I have yet to acquire, or
is it like cilantro where people are genetically wired to
love or hate it, no idea. I always figured it
(27:33):
was an old fashioned acquired taste and that I had
imprinted on more modern sweets like chocolate that was less
commonly available back in the days when marzipan was more common.
But I am starting to think that it's a food
that just tastes extremely different to different people. Interest I
feel like this might be an issue of of of
(27:54):
freshness and of the exact ingredients in the marzipan that
you get. Um. I mean, maybe maybe it does have
something to do with just just personal taste preferences, um,
and because it can be like a very mild flavor.
But personally, I'm so fond of almonds and that kind
of almost cherry like scent that you get in really
(28:15):
good almonds that I'm like, yes, marsa pan, all of
that please and thank you, and the text care to
me is also really interesting. So we still need to
get you some some mars pan, don't you any Yes? Okay,
And then I can weigh in yeah I will. Yeah.
Doing doing the research for this one, um, I did
see a lot of people like the nostalgia factors clearly there,
(28:40):
But yeah, I would also say probably no, for sure,
the ingredients and yeah, just context around. Yeah, because it's
such a simple it's such a simple thing that if
you know, yeah, it's kind of crap ingredients, then you're
going to taste it. It's two to three ingredients ideally,
so yeah, if you mess that up, then you've messed
it up. Yeah, they really need to shine. But yes,
(29:04):
I'll report back whenever we get this wild and wacky
savor dinner together and then um, really quick note from
John john Sents is this coming from Minnesota. The children's
game is duck duck, gray duck, and it was fun
going around the circle saying duck duck, green duck, duck, duck,
(29:24):
crazy duck, and other good names kids could think of,
so much better than goose. Oh that's fun. That is fun.
As another layer to this game for sure. Yeah, yeah.
I I will say that the games of duck, some
of the games of duck, duck goose that I played
as a kid, had that kind of element where yeah, yeah, yeah,
(29:46):
you would say duck duck, goody two shoes or something
like that. I don't know, like whatever it was, but yeah,
I think ours were more like you would just draw
out the g I don't know, but then it's like goose,
I like this. I think that's fun. Um. And thank
you for letting us know because we did ask about it. Yes, absolutely,
(30:07):
and thanks to all of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our emails hello at savor pod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at savor pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(30:28):
to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm Lauren focal Bum and today
we have an episode for you about ricotta. Yes, is
there any particular reason this one was on your mind? Lauren?
I was thinking about a cheese, um, and that I
mean usually I'm thinking about a cheese to be honest,
but no, no no, no, I was thinking about doing another
(00:29):
cheese related topic. Um. And then after I ran through
an embarrassing number of cheeses that we've already done, that
I had forgotten that we had already done, I landed ONCT.
We have talked about cheese quite a bit. We we have,
we have after well, because we we did a couple
of times early on and then we really we we
(00:51):
we really messed up for a minute and and didn't
for the longest. D Yeah, And so now I'm trying.
I'm trying to make a for lost time. You know. Definitely. Oh,
I'm on board. I actually don't have too much experience
with ricata, but I have had some amazing ricata like
so good, and some amazing things that have ricotta in them.
(01:14):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, It's one of my favorite ingredients
in things. Yeah. Sure. And there's a local restaurant that
does a really good I think it's Housemaide Ricotta. It's
just like a little app with like toasted bread, some
olive oil, some ricotta, maybe some fresh herbs, and they're
oh so good. Yes, I've definitely had some just straight
(01:34):
up fresh ricotta around Atlanta and been stunned, moved, moved. Yes,
that's a good way. I have also had some very
very sad ricata. But yeah, sad ricotta is sad, very sad. Yes,
kind of dry and grainy. M or I had one
(01:54):
that was like the opposite. It was but not in
a good way. You don't want food that's bad, leaking, No, never,
And I wanted to tell this story. I think I've
told this story before on the show, but I love
it so much because it's so indicative of who I am. Okay, okay,
(02:15):
So there's a guy in my phone who is just Ricotta.
I don't know his real name. I think it might
be Max Um. Anyway, if you're listening, sorry about it.
But a couple of years ago, back when we were
still at the office, UM, we used to go pretty frequently.
(02:36):
We would have an office party across the street at
a restaurant across the street, and the invitation said that
there would be an ice luge there. Oh right, the
ice luge. Now, me being me, not thinking it through,
(02:56):
I thought this was going to be a huge ice
sculpture that I could log down. Yes, you thought it
was a luge for humans. Yes, so of course wore
the appropriate attire, which is my black kind of ski suit,
thermal ware, black shoes. I show up at the party
(03:19):
the ice lusion question. I was looking around, like where
is it? It was a bit smaller I thought it
would be. It was like it was a snowman, right, Yes,
it was an ice sculpture of a snowman. But the
luge part was you put a shot in there of
(03:39):
an alcohol of your choice. So I guess you could
put any liquid really and it would go down through
this like tunnel in the ice and then be really
cold on the other side. So it was it was
illused for a shot of alcohol. It was not. It
was not human. It was not for I mean it
was for humans tech really but not ye. Yes, but
(04:02):
I showed up so ready, completely believing that at a
holiday party they were going to let employees who may
or may not be getting tipsy slide down. But anyway,
people were scared to use this ice luge and I
sort of ended up over there explaining it to people.
(04:23):
And because I was wearing all black, I think people
ended up thinking that I hadn't met Because it's kind
of a combination of offices that were there. I thought
I was a waiter. Yeah, I started to get tips.
I made some money that night. But I also met
this fellow who was in a Christmas tuxedo. We keep
(04:45):
talking and he just called himself Forcata. It was an
interesting night for a lot of reasons. I I do
that is like one of the most Annie Reese stories
that I think, I think I know of. Yeah, I
(05:08):
think that in the time I tried to comfort the
I R. S lady because she was so stressed. Oh no,
but that's pretty that's up there, and that's up there. Yeah. Yeah,
and especially for our purposes, like food was involved. Yes,
that cracks me up that I thought that I was
going to night. And I do remember when you first
(05:34):
told me this story. I was like, Annie, I'm so ready.
Everyone else was in like holiday sweaters share yeah, in
the cocktail cocktail tire share Yeah, And I have pictures
on my fridge from that night, so I do think
of it rather often. I say, had a photo booth there,
(05:54):
Oh that's amazing. Yes, yes, anyway, um back to cheese.
You can see, yes, our many past episodes we've done
on cheese is Cheddar, Brie, rock fair, rock floor, Grier,
Gouda process cheese. I think there's some more in there,
but those are the ones that came to my mind.
And yogurt I would say, yeah, and butter butter, sure, yes, yes,
(06:17):
but okay, I guess this brings us to our question. Ricotta.
What is it? Well, ricotta is a type of fresh cheese, unaged, spreadable, soft, mild,
a little bit sweet, that's actually made from whey instead
(06:37):
of kurds. So it's, uh, it's bizarro cheese, right like
like Bizarro from Superman. Like it's recognizably cheese. But it's
also sort of the opposite of cheese, right right, which
I found very confusing for a lot of this research. Yeah,
(06:57):
I have no idea. Oh it's so cool. Okay, alright, alright,
let's talk about cheese making. So when you create most
types of cheese, say say cheddar or historically more relevant here,
pecorino or provolone or mozzarella. One of the first steps
is to take your milk and um d emulsify it coagulated. Yeah,
(07:19):
that is to to separate out the fats and the
fat soluble stuff which is going to be the curds,
from the water and the water soluble stuff, which is
going to be the way. You then take the curds
and process them however you'd like to do to create
your cheese, maybe like heat it and need it into
springing mozzarella, maybe press it into wheels and age it
(07:41):
for most other things. But the way is a byproduct here. Um.
But it is still full of good stuff, lots of proteins,
some sugars, a little bit of stray fats probably for example.
Real buttermilk is the way collected from butter when you
churn the liquids out. And ricotta UH is made from
(08:02):
the way that separates out from cheese curds. Um. You
just you just take that way and heat it to
a boil. And the proteins, the proteins in way are keratins,
not casin's. The casins are locked up in the curds. UM.
So when heated, uh, when when when you heat that way,
the caratins will d nature, first unraveling and then clumping
(08:23):
together and firming up into a soft mass, sort of
like a like a soft cooked egg, but but creamier
in texture than a soft cook egg would be. Egg
is more bouncy, you know. Um. So then you you
ladle that stuff out and drain it, and within a
few minutes you've got ricotta. Um. The word ricotta means
recooked COLDA cooked and re RECOLDA yeah, it's it's just
(08:46):
eaten fresh. Yes, And I love it. Also, I love
that we did cevich and ricotta back to back. Yea
like See c cevich for more information about protein coagulation.
If you'd like to, and we know you do, you
would like to, I'm sure I'm sure one of you
(09:09):
does out there somewhere. Um, okay, so yeah you can.
You can use any type of milk you'd like to
make ricotta. Sheep's milk is the most traditional, but cow
milk is very common these days, and goat and buffalo
milks are used to Some makers will add a little
bit of fresh milk in with the way when they
cook it for added fats and casin's. And if you
(09:30):
do this. You probably also add something acidic to the
boil to to help the casins coagulate. Sometimes you might
add something acidic. Anyway, it's kind of this is a
delicate I'm only reporting the facts. I like. Yeah, yeah,
I think usually if you're if you're making it fresh, fresh,
(09:53):
fresh and using just why the traditional method is to
not add anything acidic. Um. But right, I'm not going
to tell you how to do it. I have very
little effect on your life at any rate. Um. The
result is cheese that's soft and creamy, with a with
a fine grain and a touch of this almost caramel
(10:14):
sweetness from the cooked milk. It's used most often as
an ingredient in savory or sweet dishes, rather than being
eaten on its own. It's a filling in pastas, from
dumpling types like ravioli to layering types like lasagna, and
a filling in desserts like canolli. You can dollip it
on pizza, or spread it on toast with herbs and salt,
(10:34):
or use it in sauces or as a garnish. You
can add it into pasta dose like njoki. You can
cook it into egg dishes like a savory keyshort scramble,
or into dessert custards or cheesecake. You can also salt
an age ricotta into a crumbly solid product called ricotta
salata or salt age and smoke it to make a
(10:56):
crumbly solid, smoky ricotta of fucata. Sure sure both both
of these products are right more and more like a
more like a Parmesan kind of situation, and that they
will be served um sliced as on cheese boards or
shaved over dishes. You can make vegan ricotta from things
(11:18):
like cashew or almond or tofu blended into like a
creamy whip given flavor with something like nutritional yeast, and
it's easy to make it home. Uh And I have
read opinions that homemade is really the only way to
go if you do not have access to a local
cheesemaker who makes it, as the mass produced ricotta is
less fresh and probably uses stabilizers and thickeners and additives
(11:40):
to mimic the fresh flavor and preserve the texture. That
was in Serious Eats that I read that, and they've
got a good recipe as they usually do. It calls
for you to hold the cheese at temperature for about
twenty minutes to cook it to the correct texture and flavor.
So interesting. Yeah, this has been one of my favorite
things on on doing the show, and doing the show
(12:02):
is like, oh I can make that. Yeah things I
never would have thought to make it home, and now
I really want it's yeah, you can just go buy
some milk and do it, and I want to. I
almost got my phone out in the middle of this
and put it on my list because this is I'm
the craving is fitting hard right now? Yeah, yeah, gonna
(12:23):
I think who knows, who knows if I will remember
the next time I make it to a grocery store.
That's why you gotta put it on the list. Okay, okay,
well what about the nutrition. It does depend on how
you make it, but ricotta tends to be lower in
fat than cheese is made with curds, but with the
(12:44):
same good punch of protein, so it's pretty good for you. Um.
I mean, you know, eat a vegetable, maybe maybe add
a little bit more fat to help keep going. No,
this is I think you. I really think you're a
trend setter, Lauren, because I've noticed a lot of people
over the past couple well years, have been signing things
to me or things that I'm reading with Drink some water,
(13:07):
eat a vegetable. Drink some water, eat a vegetable. It's
always it's good. It's just solidly good advice. Yes, generally,
I'm always like, there's got to be an outlier. Oh, well,
I mean drinking too much. Well, I mean you know
you have to urinate as well, Like never just drink
water and try to hold it. That's bad, that's bad
for you. But and now we've ruined drink some water.
(13:32):
That's just kidding. That is that is the one outlier.
Don't do that, that's bad. But yeah. The third third
thing that I see people out on Twitter lately is
clean your makeup brushes. And I think that, Yeah, those
three pieces of advice to there are like pretty ultimate. Yeah, yeah, sincerely,
best wishes gone, that's what we need. I love it. Yes, well,
(13:57):
we do have some numbers for you do. As of
twenty nineteen, the value of the global ricotta market was
estimated to be some eight hundred and seventy three million
dollars in growing. In the United States, the vast majority
of ricotta was sold as private label um like a
like a store brand versus a name brand. Huh. And
(14:21):
as of some two hundred and forty three million pounds
were being produced in the United States every year um
and about a quarter of American households were purchasing it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
There is a festival that's been running for fifty years
in Sicily in a town called vezini Um called the
(14:43):
Sagra Dellacata del Formaggio. And yeah, just just the festival
of ricotta and cheese. It's it's dedicated to folklore and
gastronomy and ricotta and other cheeses. It's its nickname is
the Feast of Flavors and Knowledge. Oh, yes, right, there's
(15:03):
a parade. I am not sure what is going on
with this during these are pandemic times, but it has
traditionally been held in late April, and I do not
understand why I'm not there right now. I know we've
got to add that to our Yes, our list are
ever growing list of festivals we must have end Flavors
and Knowledge. Yes, yes, m There is also a smoked
(15:30):
ricotta festival in Calabria in a town called um Mamola.
I think every year on the first Sunday in June.
And I'm given to understand that for this and other
feast days in that area, the smoked tricotta is made
into the shape of male genitalia in celebration of fertility.
(15:51):
Oh and it is made from goat milk. And uh,
I do not have a date on this, but as
of one waiting for your a Italian travel website UM
that was talking up this event. Uh, it explained that
there are two thousand and fifty goats registered in the area.
(16:13):
So there you go. I gotta register your goats. I
get I guess something could have been getting lost in translation.
But well, listeners, let us know absolutely, yes, absolutely, um,
and we do have quite a bit of pretty contentious
history for you. We do, and we're going to get
(16:35):
into that as soon as we get back from a
quick break forward from our sponsor and we're back. Thank
you sponsoring, Yes, thank you, yes, um. So wof just
(16:57):
yeah yeah yeah. So Unfortunately, there's not too much information
that I could find from reliable sources I'll say, um
about ricotta. And so I was thinking about to make
this longer. Okay, well, maybe we can do some discussion
around um, all of those foods that you listed, Lauren.
(17:21):
But the fun thing about all those foods you listed.
Is that everyone that I was like, oh, maybe lasagna.
The first five articles are like, no, it's from here,
and I swear I won't hear anything else, and other
person oh no, and ricotta doesn't even go in there.
Like you're like, oh no, okay, all right, never mind
(17:41):
different episodes. Yeah, yes, but here's a little bit about
like the origin of cheese a little bit, A little
bit um. So, Ricotta's origins are, yes, very difficult to
trace um, just as the origin of cheese is in general.
But cheese is quite old, and some stories speculate that
(18:03):
for as long as humans have been making cheese, they
have also been using the left over way, and potentially
in a way that we might think of as ricotta. Sure. Yes,
According to some sources, people during Neolithic times may have
been the first to realize that cooking cheese bry products
resulted in even more cheese or cheese like product. Thing.
(18:25):
I got so confused about whether or not to call
orcotta cheese. Yeah, yeah, since we call it ricotta cheese
in like like American parlance, I was like, I'll go
with it. But bizarro cheese is how I've started thinking
about it for sure, and and in Italian they do
make the distinction. It's like ricotta and cheese. It's not right,
(18:47):
It's not ricotta and other cheeses. Mm hmmm hmm. Well
I like bizarrow cheese. UM, so I think you, Laura,
and I'll stick with that. Many historians will that ricotta
arrived in Italy after Arabs from the Middle East conquered
the island of Sicily in the early eight presumably bringing
(19:07):
their practices around using spare way with them um. Through
things like trade and conquest, these practices and the resulting
ricotta made their way further into Italy UM and it
really took hold, so much so that by the Middle
Ages ricatta was common throughout Rome and the surrounding area.
At the time, sheep were the primary form of livestock um,
(19:30):
first introduced to the island by the Greeks in the
early See centuries, so the ricotta there was most often
a brye product of sheep cheeses, though that of course
would change based on where the cheese was being made
in the livestock that was prominent there. Another piece of
this is that sheep's milk had relatively few uses at
the time in places like Rome, where it sometimes was
(19:52):
used as a drink um in sacrificial rights. And yeah,
to make cheese. They fermented the cheese over one to
two days and warm temperatures to make a more acidic
way that they would then use to make ricotta. Yes, um,
and just a kind of big astris on all of this.
This is a fun one where I had to look
(20:12):
up like every fact that people seem to assume was
just we all know this to be true. Yes, so
kind of the The idea from this historical perspective is
that she's originated somewhere in like the Middle East, um,
and then migrated up to Sicily, but because Sicily just
(20:34):
loved it and Italy kind of ran with it. A
lot of the history is presented from like this is
when it was in Sicily and that's it. Okay, yeah, yeah,
sure m um. Yes, but perhaps ricotta was being made
in Sicily far earlier than this. A Greek author who
wrote just a whole lot about food in general in
(20:55):
the first and second century CE mentioned a quote tender
cheese at a banquet, which may have been ricotta. He
also mentions a well known cheese from Sicily which may
have been ricotta. Some folks looking into it believe that
the name itself and it's Arabic origins is the reason.
So many people think, um, that it came from the
time Sicily was ruled by the Arab So because a
(21:17):
lot of people think that the word the origins of
it are Arabic, that that might be why people think
that that's where it came from. Maybe that's all it is.
It just might be a coincidence. Huh m hmm um.
And yes, different episode for sure. But popular legend goes
that the cannoby was first invented during this time during
(21:39):
the Arab rule of Sicily. But yeah, I looked into it.
I was like, okay, no, come back later, not today, cannoli, Yeah,
not today. Two of the earliest known written records of
ricotta do come out of Sicily. One of them came
out of the thirteenth century when Sicilian King Frederick the
Second and his hunting party allegedly we're out the hunts
(22:00):
and stumbled upon the hut of a farmer making ricotta.
They were hungry, so they asked the farmer for some
of what he was making. Frederick put the hot ricotta
on top of his loaf of bread, advising the rest
of the party to use a spoon or else risk
losing some of the ricotta. Um, sounds very like legend
stuff to me. Who knows? And the first illustration of
(22:25):
recanta making appeared in a medival health book, Um, though
it was a Latin translation of an eleventh century work
by air physician even Putlan. Yeah, a lot of confusion
going on in this author or Tensi Orlando, published a
work about a man traveling a great distance to obtain
(22:46):
the best ricotta in the world. And it was quite
a lengthy title in Italian. So I did not put
it in here because I would butcher it. Ricotta made
it to the US with a wave of Italian immigrants
in the early nine hundreds, though it's quite possible, Um,
people were making it or something similar before that. That's
just sort of when the record started showing up about
(23:10):
it that I could find anyway, because again this one
was kind of hard to track down. Some some good
sources for Yeah, And I mean you know that there
are certainly other cheese type products bizarro cheeses, if you will,
made in other areas, in other cultures. For example, the
category of like of like brown caramelized cheeses um from
(23:32):
Norway are made of way really really good interesting stuff. Oh,
we definitely need to do an episode about that. But
but yeah, it's it's it's it's difficult with some of these,
especially fresh products, to to get a really good historical
record because they're so often made and consumed on site,
(23:53):
and you know, not by the sort of people who
are also busy writing stuff down. Yes, yes, yes, yes,
But that being said, listeners, if you have any more
information or if you have specific experience from your parts
of the world, we would love absolutely yes. So that
(24:17):
is what we have to say about Ricotta for now,
but we do have some mail from listeners who have
already written in not about ricotta um, but yes, we
will get into that as soon as we get back
from one more quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(24:37):
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with just mal. But you would have been
to just say it normally, to be honest, Yeah, I've
always wanted to do that, but I I always check
it out because it would it would be hilarious because
(24:58):
you would try to pick up what I'm doing. I
would just I'd be waiting. I would be like, I
don't know, it's just oh, it's just over. We have
some pretty funny if we ever did like an outtake show,
we have some pretty funny listener mail outtakes, my favorite
being that time I so enthusiastically just shouted eggnog. We're
(25:23):
talking about eggnog and instead of saying listener mail, it's
just like I was like, oh, it startled me. Usually
I'm not I'm not very easily startled. I think that
you I really put my heart in there. Yeah yeah,
and I take the yeah, the very startled, not so startled.
(25:45):
We balance it out. But I think the funniest part
of it was you had to tell me I had
done something incorrectly, like there we know anyway, Kelsey Rope.
As a sobriety enthusiast, I have learned new better for
(26:06):
me versions of my old boozy favorites. For the Toddy.
In particular, I love one to two tea spoons each,
maple syrup or other sweetener, lemon juice, and dry ground
ginger go a bit heavier for fresh grated mixed into
approximately five million eaters boiling water. The sober Toddy really
scratches the itch when a warming drink is needed, but
won't leave you buzzed or caffeinated. It's very soothing to
(26:28):
inhale the steam when I'm under the weather too. Not medicinal,
but definitely comforting. Oh yeah, yeah, I know, that sounds lovely.
I I do one of my one of my very
favorite things in the winter, especially right like if I'm
if I'm feeling a little bit under the weather, it's
too great fresh ginger and just drink that with hot water. Yeah,
(26:50):
just make a little It's nice. How made ginger tea? Yeah?
So I mean I like really um, I like really
dry and spicy things and yeah, you get the good
good injure with a good bite. And I'm just like,
oh healthy, Yeah, it sounds great. Okay, I'm into it.
I've been too both of these things. Uh. Valerie wrote,
(27:12):
m hmmm. I was expecting the Marzipan episode to discuss
the question of some people love this, but to me
it tastes like earwax. What am I doing wrong? I
am baffled and would be glad of ideas. Is it
an acquired taste that I have yet to acquire, or
is it like cilantro where people are genetically wired to
love or hate it, no idea. I always figured it
(27:33):
was an old fashioned acquired taste and that I had
imprinted on more modern sweets like chocolate that was less
commonly available back in the days when marzipan was more common.
But I am starting to think that it's a food
that just tastes extremely different to different people. Interest I
feel like this might be an issue of of of
(27:54):
freshness and of the exact ingredients in the marzipan that
you get. Um. I mean, maybe maybe it does have
something to do with just just personal taste preferences, um,
and because it can be like a very mild flavor.
But personally, I'm so fond of almonds and that kind
of almost cherry like scent that you get in really
(28:15):
good almonds that I'm like, yes, marsa pan, all of
that please and thank you, and the text care to
me is also really interesting. So we still need to
get you some some mars pan, don't you any Yes? Okay,
And then I can weigh in yeah I will. Yeah.
Doing doing the research for this one, um, I did
see a lot of people like the nostalgia factors clearly there,
(28:40):
But yeah, I would also say probably no, for sure,
the ingredients and yeah, just context around. Yeah, because it's
such a simple it's such a simple thing that if
you know, yeah, it's kind of crap ingredients, then you're
going to taste it. It's two to three ingredients ideally,
so yeah, if you mess that up, then you've messed
it up. Yeah, they really need to shine. But yes,
(29:04):
I'll report back whenever we get this wild and wacky
savor dinner together and then um, really quick note from
John john Sents is this coming from Minnesota. The children's
game is duck duck, gray duck, and it was fun
going around the circle saying duck duck, green duck, duck, duck,
(29:24):
crazy duck, and other good names kids could think of,
so much better than goose. Oh that's fun. That is fun.
As another layer to this game for sure. Yeah, yeah.
I I will say that the games of duck, some
of the games of duck, duck goose that I played
as a kid, had that kind of element where yeah, yeah, yeah,
(29:46):
you would say duck duck, goody two shoes or something
like that. I don't know, like whatever it was, but yeah,
I think ours were more like you would just draw
out the g I don't know, but then it's like goose,
I like this. I think that's fun. Um. And thank
you for letting us know because we did ask about it. Yes, absolutely,
(30:07):
and thanks to all of these listeners for writing in.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our emails hello at savor pod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at savor pod, and we do hope to
hear from you. Savor is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
(30:28):
to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers
Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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