Savor Classics: Expiration Dates

Expiration dates cause confusion and food waste. In this classic episode, Lauren and Anney do some demystifying (and talk about how a notorious gangster may have been involved with their inception).

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we
have a classic episode for you about expiration dates. Yes,
and we were discussing before we started recording, how this
is another episode where al Capone shows up. Yeah, so

(00:28):
so much gangster related intrigue, uh, and specifically al Capone
related intrigue within our food history system here in the
United States. True. True. One of my quarantine skills, as
I'm calling them, that I have picked up, uh, is

(00:49):
that I am very good. Now I can tell you
like how long a vegetable will last, Like what is
the link? Cabbage is your friend everybody. Cabbage will last
a long time if you take care of it well.
But that is like one of my most random quarantine
skills I've picked up was like, well, proctli three to
five days. I got it. I got it. Oh that's wonderful.

(01:14):
I'm you are so you're so much better at that
kind of thing than I am, because I definitely or
I mean, do you only know this because you have
let so many things go off? Because that's usually how
I mean, like two weeks later, I'm like, oh, man,
I bought asparagus three days. Um, No, I I researched

(01:36):
it because I, as you listeners know, I've been very
like every two to three weeks, I've got grocery shopping
and so I would make like my dinner plans would
be so intense because I would be how am I
going to make all of the stretch and last? And
so I would list out how long everything I was
planning to buy I would last them. From there, I
would order how I had to cook things. It's intense. No,

(02:00):
that is that is very you man, You're so much
better at that than I. I I. This, this entire quarantine
situation has been a whole lot of me being like
like really depressed and just going like, I don't know,
should we just order more Bangladeshi food? Like? Should I

(02:20):
just get how how much vindaloo can I eat in
a week? I mean, I support that too. Sounds lovely?
It is lovely. It is. It is heck and wonderful. Um.
And I love supporting our hard working local restaurants. Yes, yes,

(02:44):
very much. And it's certainly been interesting in terms of
expiration dates for me. Is that I have I normally
don't have so many. Um, like covered pantry foods like
a last like canned foods and stuff. And through this,
as you all know, I was talking about an Old
Bay episode. Now I couldn't get any Old day um.

(03:06):
It turns out I've had some this entire time. But
it was just like way in the back of all
these things I now have. And then I was like,
can spices go bad? I mean they can hypothetically, but
I mean like they could like lose flavor um or
I mean, you know, if you open it and it

(03:27):
looks moldy, obviously that's not a good sign. I did. Yeah, yeah,
I found some moldy cheese. Oh yeah, I was like craft,
surely craft cheese. Never it was bad. And this cheese
I got right at the beginning of quarantine, so like
last March, and I opened it I think a week ago.

(03:50):
Oh no mold yeah yeah, I mean it is still
made of some amount of cheese. It wasn't stored properly,
just like close the wrapper around it. But that was
it because it's a big you know, that's my fault.
That was my bed. Okay, I did lose that cheese. Yeah,

(04:15):
that's you know, Hey, that's okay, that's okay. M h.
Luckily I had another block. Well, all of these unintentional
experiments aside, we do have a lot of actual scientific
facts and some history for you. Um, and so I

(04:37):
guess we will let former Annie and Lauren take it away. Hello,
and welcome to food Stuff. I'm Lauren Vogelbon, and today
we're talking about expiration dates and food safety. Yes, and

(05:00):
there's a lot of confusion and food waste generated by
these things. So this episode of food Stuff is best
if enjoyed immediately. Do you see what I did there?
I do and and and by by the way, if
if you think that this sounds like the most boring
topic ever possible, hey, it's very practical and be We
talk a lot about about gangsters in it, so it

(05:21):
is a lot more fascinating than even I or Lauren.
But yeah, I thought it was just gonna be like
there's some confusion. Nope, nope, nope, gangsters. Yes, So let's
start with what they are. Exploration dates are dates weird,
I know, printed on the packaging of food or drink
that are the date recommended by the manufacturer that you

(05:44):
should consume the product by. Unlike what most people assume,
most of the time. They don't have anything to do
with food safety. Zero. Yeah. Nothing. The government, apart from
a few cases, has nothing to do with these dates.
And we are talking about the US federal government. By
the way, Um, they aren't regulated. The companies make them up. Yeah, yeah,
they're they're about They're about flavor and texture and enjoyment

(06:07):
of the food more than food safety. You've got best
buy used by and this is a voluntary date provided
by the manufacturers of shelf stable products like peanut butter mayonnaise,
and like Lauren said, it's more about like they want
you to consume it when they think it's going to
be the most flavorful or the best experience, or they

(06:29):
want you to consume it more quickly or throw it
away so you're to buy more. I don't know how
cynical you are, how you want to look at that,
but but yeah, it's it's a color, texture, taste stuff
like that. Yeah, but it should be fine. It has
nothing to do with food safety as long as you've
been storing it correctly. You can totally eat something after
a best buy or used by date. Yes, um, useful

(06:49):
website shout out eat by date dot com. It just
has like a general um, not not looking at these dates,
but in general how long foods will ask. Yes, I
thought it was really useful. I could look up like
beer and it had all these days. It was cool. Yeah.
And there are researchers out there who test the tastiness

(07:09):
of food across its shelf life, by the way, like
like real professionals in a lab, not like folks like
me and Annie who will just eat anything and report
on it. No. Research companies provide this as a service
to food producers. They'll take a product and store it
in varying conditions like temperature and humidity and stuff, and
then have a panel of expert tasters grade the product

(07:31):
as time goes by. The producer of the food can
then pick a cut off point where and when they
think that the food is past its prime and well,
you know, perhaps not help their reputation as a food producer. Yes,
I think this is a job that I would very
much enjoy be very bad at. I'm just like, that's fine,
it's fine, basically, yeah, yeah, it's just yeah. Yeah. Apart

(07:54):
from best buy used by you also have sell by
date and that is meant more as a island for
grocery stores so they know how long to display a product.
As a consumer, you probably want to buy something before
the cell by date UM, but you can keep it
at home past that date again, as long as you
store it safely. In the amount of time past the

(08:15):
date depends on the product see earlier again eat by
date dot com. Yes, Yes, UM expires on. If you're
thinking that you don't see that one frequently, that's because
you probably don't see it frequently. It's not used frequently
outside of baby formula UM and baby food some baby foods,
which are the only things in the US that the

(08:37):
federal government actually regulates when it comes to these food dates. Yeah,
baby foods are treated differently because some of the nutrients
some nutrients and foods degrade over time, and the government
wanted to assure parents that their kids are getting no
less than the amount of nutrients that are listed on
these food labels. UM. Also, in the case of formula,
the consistency could could change over time, making it more

(08:58):
difficult for the formula to pass through a bottle, making
it more difficult for the baby to get food. We
all want babies to get food, yes, yes, and knowing
the right amount of nutrients is very important at that
absolute stage in life, very very much, very very much. UM.
Some states, in particular New York surprise, have their own regulations.
That was no shade, Good job, New York. In some cases,

(09:22):
two dates are printed on the product, both federal and state. UM. Eggs, milk,
and meats are the most common products to have state regulations.
Makes sense. Ye. You might also see packing codes, which
usually appear as long strings of numbers and letters that
help and recall situations, primarily and for manufacturers and groceries
to know what they might want to rotate in terms

(09:44):
of products. Those are internal thing or like industry things
that don't worry if you've never been able to make
sense of them. I haven't. Yeah, I try all the time.
It's not you, it's not you. It's on it's on purpose.
It's not meant to make sense. I feel better about myself.
I tell me too. Uh. The UK's Waste and Resources
Action Program reported that fort of consumers in the UK

(10:08):
misunderstood the date labels. So we're not alone on food
products and that up to to food waste can be
linked to that misunderstanding. So it's pretty big deal. But
more on the food waste thing later. First, let's talk
about how we got got here in the first place. Yes, So, actually,
expiration dates are kind of new kids on the block.

(10:31):
Um And according to a popular theory in the US,
it started with al Capone. Al Capone. Al Capone, a
park ranger at Alcatraz claims that in the nineteen thirties,
Capone and Capone told him this story. Uh, lobbied for
milk bottle dating to ensure the safety of the city's children.

(10:53):
And that's a quote from the guard I'm going to
guess most of our listeners are familiar with a Capone, probably,
but if you aren't, here's a brief bio. Capone was
a shall we say business man. Sure, that's a very
polite way of putting it. It is based in Chicago,
who made most of his money selling alcohol illegally during

(11:13):
Prohibition and was eventually caught in sant Alcatraz. I didn't
know this. He was caught pro evading dogs as he
should have been paying on his alcohol sales, not the
numerous violent crimes attributed to him. Man. Yeah, Also, he
opened the first soup kitchen during the Great Depression. I
have to re visit that yeah. Oh, absolutely, yeah. In
this version of the story, after a family member got

(11:36):
sick from drinking milk a family member, our friend stories
a little blurry on the details. Al Capone took an
interest in the dairy industry. Also, he kind of knew
that eventually this alcohol thing, what's gonna what's gonna run out,
like like prohibition was going to end eventually, and he
wanted to back up plan exactly. He started lobbying the

(11:57):
Chicago City Council to put date stamps on milk, and
his efforts paid off. A law was passed. Capone and
already bought up all the equipment needed to stamp these
dates on the packaging. Oh I see, yes, as a
way to take over the dairy industry. Yeah. And by
the time for abish and ended, he had trucks ready
to transport and distribute milk. He was prepared. That's so,

(12:19):
that's so clever. I have all of these liquid transportation trucks. Yes, wow, yes,
al Capone, I know and listen to this. At the time,
the Deemster's Union required that only local milk could be
transported by only union members. Capone, wanting to import cheaper
Wisconsin dairy and use cheaper non union members to transport it.

(12:42):
Allegedly kidnapped to the union president and used the fifty
thousand dollar ransom he got out of it to purchase
milk processor Meadow More dairies Wow. Yeah, which he gave
as a gift to his attorney three months before he
went to prison. See, he thought it was gonna be
a boring old episode. I had no idea that kidnapping

(13:04):
was going to enter the picture. I know, I in
expiry dates, that's okay, and al Capone right, so great,
So maybe possibly have him to thank for the dates
on milk at least. Yeah. However, despite his impressive efforts,
it wasn't really until the nineteen seventies, That are, until

(13:24):
nineteen seventies, specifically, the expiration dates really became a thing
in the United States on a larger level. Yes, as
more and more of the food we were eating was
packaged and perhaps we weren't really sure what was in it.
We wanted to know that the ingredients and the things
we were putting in our bodies was safe and fresh.
Weird yeah, Uh. Nineteen seve survey of two d fifty

(13:47):
thousand consumers found that a majority wanted a dating system
and named a dating system as the most useful indicator
for freshness. So people are really pushing for this. Yeah.
Skipping ahead to nine, the National Uniform Food Safety Labeling
Act came before Congress, which called for both sell by

(14:07):
and used by dates for quality safety and quote nutrient availability.
I love that it failed, as have five others like it,
introduced between two thousand one and two nine. Interesting side
know to kep running across our home state of Georgia
is one of two states that requires dates on pre
wrapped sandwiches. Yeah, that's such a specific thing. It kept

(14:34):
popping up all right, Go Georgia. Products like shellfish, milk, eggs,
and anything labeled keep refrigerated are also required to have
expiration dates and are checked regularly by inspectors and crieck.
Note in Europe, it's against the law not to have
a sell by date. The history of this practice in
Europe is fairly short as well, and also kind of

(14:55):
around the same timeline. Mark and Spencer's originally started using
it in their storeroom in the nineteen fifties, but it
didn't appear on the shelves until nineteen seventy, and the
term sell By came into use in nineteen seventy three.
The company takes so much pride in this they actually
used it as a selling point in an ad campaign
that they came up with it. Yeah, that's great. I

(15:18):
know you can find it online up. I mean, I
guess it's a good ragging point, like like we're exacting, Yeah,
eat our food exactly. We've been We've been ahead of
the game on this, so you could trust us. Yes, okay.
So that's the short history of expiration dates in specifically

(15:40):
the US and Europe. So let's look at the health
and safety general rules. Yeah yeah, and gets more into
the into the food waste area of the conversation. But
first let's take a quick break for a word from
our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. Okay.

(16:10):
So the marketing end of expiration dates, aside fresh foods
will eventually spoil no, yes, by by which I mean
that microorganisms will start eating them if you do not.
The mold and bacteria and yeasts that cause food to
change color and scent over time. Not all of them
are our path pathogenic, Like not all of them are

(16:32):
are harmful, um, but generally they do make food unpleasant. Yeah, Um,
you can prevent their growth by practicing safe food handling.
What I know, crazy stuff stuff like I mean and
and and. Part of this is going to sound a
little bit like dub but but I think it's it's
worthwhile for for everyone to remind themselves of these kind

(16:54):
of practices every now and again. I agree. So, yeah,
you know, put refrigerated and for and foods in your
cart last at the supermarket. Uh, keep them cool during transport,
and get them into the fridge promptly once you're home. Meat, eggs, milk,
and other things that spoil more easily should be kept
in the coldest part of the fridge, away from the door,

(17:15):
towards the bottom and the back, because every time you
open the door, you're letting a little bit of warm
air in. So anything kept in the door specifically will
get exposed to a little bit of a temperature flux.
If you take stuff out of the fridge and then
repackage it for any reason, like you know, maybe you
only cook two chicken thighs from a larger pack. Uh.
Make sure that your hands and anything else that they
come into contact with are clean. Um, and don't leave

(17:37):
things out of the fridge for longer than is necessary.
The United States Food Safety and Inspection Service says that
two hours at room temperature is the hard limit for
fresh dairy and meat products like a milk or chicken salad,
or like a cooked sausage or something like that. Wow,
I didn't realize there's a hard limit. This really puts
a damper on some barbecues. And I've been to Oh absolutely, yeah,

(18:00):
there's there's all kinds of food temperature regulation. Uh uh,
I'll just try not to think about it too hard.
Of course, even when you are careful, there are some
food borne pathogens out there that can make you sick.
Um stuff that was introduced before or during the food's
original packaging. Um, Like like maybe the animal that your

(18:20):
meat comes from could have been infected, or like we
particles of dirt could have gotten in at some point,
or maybe the soil that a vegetable was grown in
harbored some kind of bacteria or some other contaminant. Uh.
Cooking food to an appropriate temperature will generally get rid
of this sort of thing. And you can check Google
for science. Science is the latest temperature recommendations for whatever

(18:42):
specific food you're preparing or preparing to prepare. Uh. And
and also just make sure that you don't cross contaminate,
like a use separate knives and cutting boards to handle
things that are going to be cooked and things that
are going to be eaten raw your salads, anything like that,
and and do wash your hands after handling raw meats
and eggs. Canned goods, meanwhile, are basically safe forever as

(19:04):
long as they're still sealed. UM. Dented cans are totally fine, um,
as long as the dent is not across the lid
seals or the side seam, which which can disrupt the seal. Uh.
Do not eat from bloated cans, however. The bloat is
caused by bacteria growing inside, which is both gross and gross.

(19:26):
It reminds me of the last of us, the zombies.
The bloaters they get really big because the bacteria inside.
Oh I totally put that out of my brain. But
you're completely correct. You're welcome, Lauren. Oh, thank you. Okay,
but back to food after thinking about zombies. That's a

(19:48):
regular podcast for us. Oh absolutely, okay. Alright, So so
when I said forever, I like really kind of meant forever. Um.
There's one experiment in the nineteen seventies in which researchers
opened up stuff like a like forty year old canned
corn and hundred year old canned oysters, and they found
that the foods inside looked and smelled basically like any

(20:10):
freshly canned counterpart that you might find on a store shelf.
Analysis did find that that there were slightly lower levels
of some nutrients like vitamin C. They didn't taste any
of them. Oh well that's impressive nonetheless, But yeah, in
a in a zombie situation, ye can can canned goods

(20:31):
canned goods forever. Yeah. Um. But speaking of science, yes,
I did want to put in that that food scientists
have brought us a lot of really incredible innovations over
the past few few decades. You know, ingredients can be
added to stuff like processed meats and cheeses to prevent
them from spoiling. Fresh vegetables can be packed or stored
in controlled atmosphere environments that prevent them from spoiling. Fresh

(20:55):
meats can be similarly stored and packed. Um. And and
those absorbent purge pads help prevent potentially contaminated juices from
getting everywhere cross contaminating your salad all that unfun stuff. Um.
Also fun thing that I did not know about those
purge pads that come in your packs of meat. Lots
of big chain grocers put anti theft tags in those

(21:19):
purge pads. They just sneak them right in there. So
no more smuggling raw chicken out of Kroger Anny. Sorry,
sorry about it. Well, how did does it deactivate when
you buy it? Like you scan it? Yeah, when they
when they scan it, it deactivates at the same time.
I can't believe that I've never heard of that, So sneaky.

(21:44):
All y'all meat smugglers have to have to find a different,
different and fund a different racket. All right, Okay, so
let's talk about food waste, right, Yes, all of this
confusion about expiration dates has led too with a lot
of food waste and a lot of food born illness. Um.

(22:05):
In general, American Americans throw away of the stuff we
buy without consuming it, which is an insane number. Yeah.
That short circuits the straight cat's brain. Yeah, Lauren and
I are both straight cats, which means anything. Yeah, especially
if it's free. If it's free, that's where we get
in trouble. Yeah. Estimates by the way for the cost

(22:28):
of this food amount to six to nine hundred dollars
worth of food per household per year UM, and it
is a global problem. Worldwide's estimated that about one point
three billion metric tons of food go to waste every year. UH.
One study I read out of the UK CIRCU found

(22:48):
that date confusion only accounted for one fifth of food waste,
so it's certainly not the main culprit, but it is
a pretty substantial part of the equation UM, because I
guess you could say that fear of expired food and
poor planning is really a big part of the problem
UM accounts for a lot of food waste, so a
better dating system could certainly help. According to a survey

(23:12):
conducted by global public health organizations in s F International,
around of Americans keep products past their expiration date, which
could maybe put them at risk for food born illness.
On the other hand, the survey found throw food out
based on the best use by date yeah, and thirty

(23:33):
six for the sell by dates when it's typically still
safe for consumption, and that generates obviously a lot of
food waste. Six of Americans and I have to say,
including me, until I did this, UH, say they rely
on their senses. Yeah, but it's it's a good old
sniff test. If it smells okay, it's okay, it's probably fine.

(23:54):
But according to the survey, uh well, the scientists who
authored the survey, the germs that cause most food born
illness can't be detected via site or smell. The UK
study I mentioned earlier found that looking or smelling off
quote was the number one reason respondents gay for tossing food.

(24:15):
So the report also found that of the respondents avoid
eating at other people's, including friends homes, due to food
safety concerns, which that kind of made me giggle. Yeah,
we we all have that friend, right, I have one
person in mind right now. I would I would still
eat the food, but I would be very like delicate

(24:36):
and cautious about it. I would take my time. A
National Resource Defense Counsel survey referenced in Time magazine reported
an even higher number of food waste, writing that nine
of Americans throughout perfectly good food, and that is much
of of our food supply is discarded uneaten every year.

(24:58):
I think the difference in the number there is that
they included farms and grocery stores, whereas the study I
previously mentioned only focus on the consumer. This equates to
billions of pounds of food, about twenty per person a month,
loss of of fresh water used to grow or just
get these food items to the store to your plate,

(25:20):
and one hundred sixty five billion dollars per year. According
to this, rotting food also accounts for America's methane emissions
food rotting in landfills. Yeah. Throwing away out of date
food is estimated to cost grocery stores two thousand, three
hundred a day dollars used dollars a day. Yeah. However,

(25:43):
not all postdated food goes to waste. Some can be
given to charity depending on local laws or shelters, food banks,
stuff like that. Um. Some food that's past its date
goes to salvage grocers and discount stores, which are places
itself food a little closer to the end of its
life for lower prices. Um. Some goes to grocery actions.

(26:06):
Grocery actions, which I had never heard was a thing,
But it's totally a thing, like you can buy kind
of in bulk. Uh, this like slightly expired, like like
past sell by date foods oh, in auction format. I
gotta look into that I know. Um. Some even goes
to exclusively past date grocery markets. Um. For for example,
the guy who founded Trader Joe's opened one of these

(26:28):
in Boston, and there was one opened in Copenhagen in Denmark.
These are places itself exclusively stuff that's past its sell
by date but still is wholesome and you know, right,
probably won't make you sick, yes, and equal chance with
anything else I know. John Oliver did a piece on

(26:49):
this on food waste recently, and that he talked about
how there are a lot of laws and in the
US in particular, that make it very difficult to donate
if you're um, which is very very frustrating. Yes, so
I guess we'll we'll come back to that then and
a whole other upsetting, depressing episode. We haven't had a

(27:10):
really depressing one lately though, so yeah, okay, So that's
a look at the food waste that is generated in
part due to confusion and fear kind of surrounding expiration
dates and our misunderstanding of them. So let's take a
quick break. But when we get back, we'll talk about

(27:31):
the future. Yes, possible solutions, yes, But right after a
quick break from a word from our sponsor and we're back.
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So. Last year, Congress

(27:53):
introduced the Food Date Labeling Act of in an attempt
to standardize the date labels Prime Merrily to better communicate
when a little wiggle room is okay and when it
absolutely isn't. A study in the UK came to the
conclusion that clarity and labeling could reduce food waste by
and if if you're thinking, well, UK keeps coming up

(28:15):
a lot here. They they've done a lot to try
to fix this and they were one of the first
at least that I could find studies countries that did
a like massive study on it and the problems it
caused and food waste. Also in the U s d
A distributed a document suggesting companies simply used the single

(28:36):
label best if used by and in seventeen, the Food
Marketing Institute and the Grocery Manufacturers Association are advising that
the majority of food manufacturers are retailers that fall under
their joint umbrella to replace the current dates with these
two best if used by for most foods and used

(29:00):
by for products that potentially become less safe with ah, yeah,
that is clear. Yeah. Um, and in the European Parliament
pledged to reduce food waste by by and a part
of their ways they were going to achieve this was
by better clarity in the expression date huh yeah so

(29:23):
so yeah. I hope that, um, I hope that some
of these measures wind up getting getting through and be
better affecting food safety and and uh reducing food waste
for all of us. I agree, And I have to say, uh,
this episode was very helpful for me to research because

(29:44):
I have always kind of been confused about what exactly
that date meant, like could I eat it fast? Yeah?
And see above restray cat. My answer was usually just
like it's probably fine, yes, mine too if my stomach
is a little upset tomorrow. I don't know. That brings

(30:05):
us to the end of this classic episode on expiration dates.
That is one thing I love about our job, Lauren,
is sometimes back when we had gatherings in the office,
UM people ask us like questions as if we have expertise,
and I remember, um, our office manager are brilliant. Office

(30:28):
manager asked me once like how long is it okay
to leave out potato salad or something? And I was like,
I've probably fine, Like I didn't have a good she
just threw it away. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's frequently, you know,

(30:48):
when when in doubt, I asked the internet mhm or
I don't know. We we do end. Yeah, we did
end that episode with a lot of talk about would
waste and I do want to come back and and
do that cool, depressing episode about food waste. Now we
never got around to that one. Um uh, partially because

(31:09):
I was I was looking it up in that bill
that we talked about. UM for in the United States
hasn't done anything since it was first introduced. It's just
been sitting there um in committee and uh, nothing has happened.
The EU is really stepping it up though, they're they're
taking a lot of good steps. And yeah, I would
love to love to talk more about about all of that,

(31:31):
and we will one day, one day, but that day
is not today. It is not. Listeners, We would love
to hear from you. What quarantine skills have you picked out?
Oh yeah, you can let us know. You can email
us at hello at savior pod dot com. We are
also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at savor pod. And we do hope to

(31:54):
hear from you. Savor is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts in my Heart Radio, you can visit
the I Heart rat app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots of market things
are coming your way.