November 29, 2024 • 47 mins
This one's got all the fixings: the competing histories of the 'first' Thanksgiving, how one 19th-century woman dictated the main traditions, how subcultures are making Thanksgiving their own, why some protest the holiday, and Anney’s many mishaps.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio. I'm
Annie Reese and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Laurn Volga Bam, and today we have a classic episode
for you about Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, and I will ask the question even though I
feel it it's obvious.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Okay, any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It is the week of Thanksgiving as we record this,
and so the episode originally aired in November of twenty eighteen,
so it kind of like came up in the rotation
and I was like, oh, oh, we haven't classic to
that yet. Okay, yeah, let's let's do that.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I like that we haven't classiced it yet.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, No, I love I love verbing and nown.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yes, yes, and we have done.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We've done several topics around American Thanksgiving. I am preparing
to do all of my foods as we speak.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I've got a lot of stuff left to do. Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Projects, yeah, there will be delicious food at the end.
Although I have since we've done this, I have further
cut some foods out.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh yeah, okay, yes, Well, it's just.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Like we don't have as big of the gathering as
we used to, especially after the pandemic, and there was
just so much we were making that. I was like,
this is way too much, this is too much. I
think we need to since I'm part of the I'm
like one of the.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yah.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, like then this is what's going. I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
But also I have to say I've seen a rise
in Thanksgiving products that are like in a.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Can y yeah all of thanks oh yeah, oh sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's been interesting to see and they sell out quickly,
as most of the products that we talk about like
that do.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, those kind of stunt products, sure, you know, like
it's like it's like a next day leftover Thanksgiving turkey
sandwich as a soup and you're like what and they're like,
you're welcome, there's only one hundred cans of it, hurry
or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we certainly, Oh
my gosh, we can certainly do another like marketing stunt
(02:42):
short about wacky holiday shenanigans like that. But yeah, yeah,
we're my My Thanksgiving is shifted a little bit as well.
Since we did this episode, we kind of dropped off
doing traditional Thanksgiving in my little like friends Giving situation,
and so my buddy and his mother we still go
(03:03):
up to their place every year and hang out, but
they always pick I don't know, some interesting menu that
they want to explore more of the cuisine of. And
so I think this year it's like a Persian theme.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I'm working. I haven't like quite worked out the dessert
that I'm bringing, but I just ordered like, like no
baked cheesecake, a bunch of pomegranate juice and pistachio seeds,
and we're gonna I've got some gelatin at home. I
don't know, We're gonna see what happens.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I love that. I love that so much. That sounds
so fun because I lamented I think in this episode.
With other episodes, it kind of annoys me that Thanksgiving
and Christmas are like right next to each other. It's
just like the same meal. Yeah I wish it was.
I love the meal, but I wish they weren't so
(03:54):
close to it. Yeah, like two and two months come on, Yeah,
that's come on. So I like the idea of exploring
other things. I am excited because this year I already
know what I'm going to do with the leftover turkey.
I found this super recipe okay has yoke in it.
I'm very very excited. I'm excited, but I also was
(04:18):
thinking about which I think I talked. I talked about
this in here too, but I was thinking about the
first time I was on the show as a host.
I was doing my Thanksgiving and so many of you
wrote in to me, and you were so kind, like
because I was so nervous when I first started, and
(04:39):
I didn't know about the fan interaction bid. I didn't
know what I was going to do. But I remember
when some of you wrote it and were like, Annie,
have you done this part yet? Have you done it?
Because I had spoken about my Thanksgiving and it was
just really sweet.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I really appreciated it. So if any of you are
still listening, I hope that you are. I remember that.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, We're always thankful
for y'all.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
We are, we are, But I guess we should let
pass Andy and Lauren take it away. Sure, Hello, and
welcome to Savor. I'm Annie Reas and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum.
And today we're talking about Thanksgiving here in the United States.
(05:27):
It's happening like tomorrow if you're listening to this podcast
the day that it comes out. Yeah, but it's got
a lot of fun stuff and a lot of sad stuff,
but it's interesting nonetheless, Yes, stuff going on. So I
would say you could listen to it at any time
and enjoy it at any time. Absolutely, but it is
appropriate for the season as it comes out right, Yes,
(05:47):
And I have a lot, a lot of thoughts on Thanksgiving.
It's a holiday that I love, but I do find
it has the most family drama of the holidays in
my case, although last Christmas that might have been the winner,
That might have been the all time winner. I usually
do the cooking, which is very stressful, but I do
enjoy it. Last year, for instance, my little brother announced
(06:10):
he had become a vegetarian the day before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh no, he didn't, he did. Was he doing it
just to spite you?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I'm not sure, Lauren. I still ponder this to this day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
But that's why our recent episode on Satan was appropriate,
because there was a last minute rush to find some
oh yeah, he could.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Eat mm huh huh.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And for Thanksgiving we cook a turkey and a picking turkey.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I've never heard of this, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it's a smaller turkey that you cooked the night
before and you just pick at it.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The picking turkey. I don't know if that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
My uncle says he invented it, but he's a known exaggerator,
so I'm not sure. The listeners write in about that
we have ham, corn bread dressing, sweet p tata castrole
with out marshmallows, and this is the one that goes first.
This is the dish that is gone. And it has
been a source of many scandals in my family, Hiding
of tupperwares, finding of tupperwaars, leaving of empty tupperwares in
(07:12):
the refrigerator. And then you go to get some and
you're so excited and you go right up.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And there's nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Passive aggressive notes, Oh man, okay, deal. They keep campaigning
for me to make two and it's not gonna happen.
Homemade cranberry sauce, giblet gravy, rice, green beans, chocolate pie,
and a rotating probably I mix up every year, so
it's a lot of food.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Wow yeah, and all of that, Bye, Like you are
the one who cooks all of this. Does anyone help you?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
My mom she taught me so that I could continue
the tradition, and then sort of just disappeared which I love.
She stays in the kitchen with me and keeps me company,
but I generally do most of the Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Huh. It's always been or in my adult life anyways,
it's always been a very collaborative effort between me and
whatever her friends I'm spending the holiday with. Because yeah,
Thanksgiving is a weird one for me because my dad
was in the restaurant industry when I was growing up,
So for him, Thanksgiving started at like one or two
am when he would get up and go to work
and start cooking like forty turkeys and like thirty gallons
(08:15):
of mashed potatoes and like just crazy numbers of stuff.
So a, he hated those foods. Those foods were never
anything he ever wanted to eat, especially not on a
nice day. Be I mean, like he would come home
and go to sleep.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Like that, right, Yeah, I think forty turkeys might do
that to.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You, absolutely, But so yeah, it was never a family
thing for the two of us. Like growing up, I
would go with my grandmother to my cousin's house and
I don't remember any of the food we.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Ever ate there, didn't make an impression.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I do remember that she made this cranberry relish. She
called it a relish.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
It was.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It was very bitter and had like orange peel in it.
That's the only thing, literally, the only thing.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Everything else is.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Everything else is just lost to the mist of time
because it wasn't that bit of a deal for me. Sure,
but I don't think I was exposed to a lot
of traditional Thanksgiving foods until after college, when my friends
and I started hosting our own. For me, the important
dishes are the turkey, the stuffing, the gravy, and having
homemade cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie. Oh critical, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(09:19):
These days my roommates and I go up to one
of their mom's house and cook together and like day
drink and it's pretty it's pretty fabulous.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I start drinking at like nine am on Thanksgiving because
you're in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
In the kitchen, what else are you doing?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
It's a holiday. Yeah, I kind of slowly day drink.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But one Thanksgiving a pipe under our sink broke and
it flooded our kitchen.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Oh no, which.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Meant that we didn't eat until really late. Usually we
around two pm. At this time, it was like eight
pm or something. Oh wow, Because I normally start day
drinking so early. By the time we ate, I was drink.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was so drunk.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And I fixed up this huge plate, like really ambitious
plate of food, and I put it down and promptly
fell asleep at the table.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And there's a funny picture.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Of me just put my head on my arm, sprawled
and people ate the.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Food off my plate.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh they Oh nice, dude.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I'm getting furious thinking about it. And when I woke up,
it was all gone. It's the only Thanksgiving that has
ever happened that there were no left evers.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Wow. So I didn't get to have anything.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I still think about it to this day. Clearly I would.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I've never had a disaster like quite like that, but
uh yeah, I think the worst things, like I dropped
my phone in the oven one year.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Oh no, oh god.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, that was interesting. We had to gone it wasn't
it wasn't it was okay, it fell through like a crack.
It involved some very creative craft making in order to
retrieve it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Oh, I've really entrigued.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
But other than that, like I don't know, like I've
like exploded a pyrexpan.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oh yeah, my goodness. Yeah, yeah, I've had.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I could regale you with so many stories of Thanksgiving
misapps fiascos, but we should really get to our question.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I suppose Thanksgiving. What is it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, Thanksgiving is a holiday celebrated by many people in
the United States and Canada. Here it falls on the
fourth Thursday of November. In Canada, it's the second Monday
in October. It's a national holiday here. Lots of folks
have the day off. Businesses tend to be closed. It's
family oriented and centers around a feast type meal involving
lots of the foods we've been talking about. And it's
(11:52):
ostensibly a day to be thankful for whatever good things
are bountiful.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In your life.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ostensibly, yeah, Exactly what foods people eat varries by region
and by family. You know, corn bread dressing versus bread stuffing,
Pecan pie versus apple versus pumpkin versus sweet potato, corn
pudding versus sweet potato pudding, Brussels versus green beans. Is
your extra starch, rice or mac and cheese or grits
or mashed potatoes. Is everything in casserole form with cheese
(12:20):
and cream. Sweet potatoes versus canned yams, corn bread versus yeast,
rolls versus biscuits, lots of options.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Very much, very much, lots of options.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And General Mills collected data on recipe searches one year,
twenty sixteen from Betty Crocker dot com, Pillsbury dot com,
and tablespoon dot com. November first through Thanksgiving Day. They
collected all these recipe searches and put out a list
of the most popular recipes by state. And I mean,
like a lot of it was stuff that you would expect,
(12:52):
maybe like a pumpkin cheesecake shows up in there, mac
and cheese, things like that. But the one I suspect
that football season had some effect on this too, But
Buffalo chicken dip showed up a lot. It was like
three states' most popular recipe.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
The most popular.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Huah, yeah, I would imagine football, and I find just
in general, when you're doing a pot look type thing,
that's a really popular option.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Oh it's a great one. I'm not disin the buffalo shoulder.
It's delicious. Yes, yeah, it's just a little outside the
ramble what we normally think.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Of, right, it's more modern, more modern, yes, So let's
talk about some nutrition.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, long laugh ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I have to say I get angry every year when
I see those magazine headlines that are like, hey, ladies,
here's not here's a way out to not gain weight
over the holiday, and its tips like don't eat the
skin of the turkey, don't eat the pie.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
It's one day a year.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Enjoyed, right, And I've been there, I've done that thing,
and it's miserable.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It is miserable if you are wondering.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
In general, people gain one to three pounds over the holidays,
but most people lose it in the first couple of
months of the year, and the problem comes in when
you don't and it compounds.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Really, binging on a single meal is not going to
do much of anything. It's continuing to eat rich foods
throughout the season, be it like leftovers from these feast
meals or just having multiple celebrations. That is going to
affect your weight. If you can enjoy yourself for one
day and like eat your leftover turkey on top of
some greens instead of mashed potatoes, I would say that
(14:32):
that's a better plan than trying to abstain entirely.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and you're just going to enjoy yourself more, I
would say, And yes, for folks with eating disorders, I
know it is not as simple as enjoy it, right,
that's a whole separate episode. But we do see you absolutely,
So let's get into some Thanksgiving number ooh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
According to the American Farm Bureau Federation, the average cost
for a Thanksgiving meal for ten people is about forty
nine dollars twelve cents.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Which, if that sounds low to you, their data is
a tiny bit skewed. It's assuming that you're shopping at
a large supermarket chain with low prices, and that you're
probably in a rural area where food costs are a
little bit lower, and that you're buying a real no
frill meal, turkey stuffing, sweet potatoes, rolls, cranberries, peas, pumpkin pie,
and a veggie tray. That's it, respondence to various surveys,
(15:23):
reports spending around one hundred to two hundred dollars on
their meals.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
For me, these days, Thanksgiving is a pretty small celebration.
But when I was younger, it used to be like
fifteen to twenty people. Oh wow, Yeah, and there was
the coveted adult table seats and one year when I
was nine, I campaigned really hard, please let me sit
at the adult table. But I had accidentally switched. I
(15:55):
promised this was an accident. No one believes me. But
I had picked up a cup of wine, set up
a cup of juice, and when I took a sip
of it, I did a spit take and got it
all over everyone and on the nice white tablecloth. I
was immediately reallyted back to the children's table, and they
(16:17):
never invited me again. I was like sixteen, still at
the children's table. It's a big fiasco that I call.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
If we're talking the calorie count, on average, the whole
shebang comes out around four five hundred calories.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Goodness, Yeah, which is actually lower than I thought it
would big. Yeah, that's not too bad. I mean really
for all that wonderful food. M Yeah, for just the
amount of like just gravy shots I take.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, here's just that. Hit me with another.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Nine percent of Americans eat Thanksgiving out at a restaurant.
In twenty sixteen, American soldiers stationed overseas eight thirty seven
hundred and sixty pounds of turkey, twenty four hundred and
fifty pounds of ham, nine, one hundred and fourteen pounds
of stuffing and eight hundred and seventy nine gallons of
eggnog on Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I don't understand the eggnog thing. That's not a Thanksgiving food,
it's a Christmas food. I mean, you know, people serving
our country get to do whatever they want in terms
of eating when they are stationed out wherever.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
But why you can reach us at.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Numbers from PETA say that each year forty five million
turkeys are killed in the US for Thanksgiving. Ninety percent
of American Thanksgiving meals do include turkey. The Butterball Hotline
answers one hundred thousand questions between November and December. And
to bring up Stephen Colvert all the time, but back
I call on the Colvert Report, and I think even
on his The New show, The New Old Show.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He's new host of an old show.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
He had a segment where he answered questions on the
Butterball Hotline, so you might get.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Him when you call.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh my goodness, that's darling.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
When it comes to that dreaded scenario. The turkey is ready,
the wonderful smell has filled the kitchen. You go to
take it out and pop right onto the floor.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Survey says that forty one percent of those surveyed would
still serve the turkey if no one had seen the
incident and wouldn't tell their guests.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Thirty four percent said they would still serve it, but
they would tell the folks what happened. Four percent said
they would order pizza. I would totally serve it.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh man, I would. I would definitely serve it.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I think that has happened before.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We were just like, oh yeah, yeah, just I mean,
come on your floor is probably fine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Didn't that happen?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
This isn't Julia Child. Didn't she have a moment where
she did something like that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It wasn't like a whole turkey or something, but yeah,
she was just like a bloop right back.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
In the pan. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
According to one survey, with turkey out of the picture,
Stuffing is the most important dish required for making a
Thanksgiving meal a Thanksgiving meal. After that it's mashed potatoes and.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
A quick word here.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I for a long time got very confused about stuffing
and dressing. The stuffing is the stuff actually in the turkey?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yes, Well, these days they don't really recommend putting, cooking
stuffing inside of a turkey, because it's really just going
to slow down you're cooking time and make the rest
of the turkey dry out. But I think stuffing and
dressing are two different words for the same thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
That's what I thought too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, is it just for a long time, it's been different,
different preparation methods, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, I think that the dressing was also kept inside
of the bird for a long time. Oh yeah, I
think it's just two different words.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, my family doesn't do mashed potatoes, but it does
make me think of that Friends episode, or Monica is
cooking the Thanksgiving meal for everyone, and everyone wants a
specific type of potato that is the tradition in their family.
Potato time, mashed with lumps and whipped with peas and onions.
And because it's a sitcom, they get locked out. Everything
(20:07):
gets burned, and I think they order pizza. They like,
order food from somewhere, so no one got there for damn.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finds that Thanksgiving is
the deadliest holiday on the road. Don't drink and drive, folks, Yeah, don't.
I find this really surprising because I would have thought
New Year's Eve. Our New Year's was the worst. I know,
(20:29):
super Bowl it's not like a holiday, but the Super
Bowl Sunday is a really bad one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh yeah, yeah. Well I think that those, you know,
I think that more people are likely to like call
cabs on a day like New Year New Year's where
they they're going out two party, but you know they're like,
oh man, I'm just having three bottles of wine with
my family.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That's gonna be That's gonna be fine, right, No, no, no, no, no, no,
it's not. So that's our our Thanksgiving overview. And we
have a lot of history.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh yes, a lot. Yes, But first we have a
quick break forward from our sponsor and we're back. Thank
you sponsored, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
For many of US Americans, we probably know the story
of Thanksgiving that we heard in elementary school is not
exactly historically accurate.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Nope. However, there is a seed of truth to.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It, one very small pumpkin seed.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yes, first off, the dates can get a little fuzzy,
but here it goes. And this actually really surprised me.
I was kind of shocked that they were like, well,
we don't know for sure, but we think it's the
state after the one hundred and two passengers on the
Mayflower Madelandfall near Massachusetts in sixteen twenty and formed the
town of Plymouth. Things were rough during their first winter
(22:00):
in the New World. Most of the Pilgrims stayed on
the Mayflower. Only about half of the original colonists lived
to see the spring. In sixteen twenty one, the fifty
three surviving Pilgrims and the Peduxit band of the Wampanoag
tribe came together and held a three day fall harvest feast.
(22:20):
This is generally thought of as the first Thanksgiving. There
were other feasts of thanks before then. It was sort
of a thing, these days of prayer for military victories
or for food, or a lot of times it had
a religious aspect to it. So these days of Thanksgiving,
This by far was not the first time people did that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Oh yeah, no, not not Europeans and also certainly not
the indigenous peoples.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
But this is the one that historians point to as
the first. And we'll get into why that is a
little later. And a lot of myths surrounded this event
and why it took place. One story goes that the
pilgrims were out fouling for turkeys, geese, and duck, and
they quote in one day killed as much as served
(23:09):
the company almost a week, so a lot. Soon after,
about ninety members of the Wampanoag tribe showed up at
the settlement and the two groups interacted without incident. They
contributed venison to the feast, and the feast probably featured eels, fish, shellfish, vegetables,
stewed cornmeal, cranberry's pumpkin, and of course per drunk. Folks
(23:33):
ran races and fired guns. In celebration, people sat on
the ground or on barrels, their plates balanced precariously on
their laps. This feast resulted in a treaty between the
two groups, but it only lasted until King Philip's War
from sixteen seventy five to sixteen seventy six. Relations between
the two groups had been strained for a while as
(23:54):
more and more colonist poured into the colony and disease.
The colonists killed about ninety percent of the indigenous peoples
from sixteen sixteen to sixteen nineteen. Yeah, and to be clear,
King Philip was the leader of the Wampanoag tribe.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's the name that the English gave him.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
He was the son of the man who celebrated this
first Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims. King Philip's War broke out
after some of King Philip's men, his Wampanoag name was Metacomet, murdered,
Christian Convert and the Punkapog interpreter John Sassimon. Hundreds of
colonists and thousands of Native Americans died. Some estimates put
(24:36):
the death toll at thirty percent of the English population
and fifty percent of the Native American population. The town
of Springfield and Massachusetts was burned down, the food stores
of the Narraganessens tribe was destroyed. Metacomet went to New
York for reinforcements, but was instead attacked by the Mohawk tribe,
(24:57):
and he was killed soon after returning home. Some accounts
say he was beheaded and dismembered. His allies were sold
into slavery, and his head was put on a spike,
where it remained for a quarter of a century. And
this was the again the son of the tribe leader
who celebrated that first Thanksgiving. Right right, Okay. Other historians
(25:19):
think that the first Thanksgiving took place in sixteen thirty seven,
after Massachusetts Governor John Winthrop called for a day of
Thanksgiving to celebrate the slaughter of seven hundred peaquats.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Oh yeah, that's not nice.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Early settlers in Virginia celebrated an annual Thanksgiving as far
back as sixteen nineteen, and if you go back even
further to fifteen sixty five, Florida, members of the Salloy
tribe had meal of Thanksgiving with Spanish settlers that included
things like salted pork and garbonzo beans.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Also, when it comes to Squanto, who's someone a lot
of US Americans are probably familiar with when it comes
to this whole Thanksgiving tale. As far as we know,
he did in fact help out newly arriving settlers in
the early sixteen hundreds as a translator and a teacher,
showing them more to catch fish and how to grow corn. However,
(26:19):
he was captured by the English in sixteen fourteen and
sold into slavery.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Over the next couple of years.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
He learned English and he did make it back to
New England and sixteen nineteen, but by then the Patuxit tribe,
which was his tribe, had been wiped out by smallpox.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Thanksgiving, Yeah, right before you go celebrate with your family.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, how you can get drunk on wine and regale
them with these fun facts.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, the European settlers did really terrible things.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
They did, and we're not through.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
When the Constitution was enacted, the Continental Congress called for
a national Thanksgiving. Then Congress left Thanksgiving up to be
decided by the states in seventeen ninety eight, some of
which really didn't like the federal government getting involved in
any religious observations, which, again, Thanksgiving was for a long
time a religious thing, right. The South didn't really get
(27:16):
into it like the North did, and it was the
source of a lot of controversy, more divisive than unifying.
And this brings us to the mid eighteen hundreds, when
the North dominated the federal government and the country was
more divided than ever during the Civil War, and it
brings us to Sarah Josipha Hale. She was the editor
(27:38):
of the magazine Godie's Lady's Book and also the author
of Mary Had a Little Lamb Just for another fun
tidbit about her, and she thought that a national day
of Thanksgiving was just what America needed to unify.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
She had found the writings of Edward Winslow, one of
the two attendees at this supposed first thank Giving who
wrote about it, whose records still survive, and she wanted
to revive this. Of note, the Boston clergyman who rediscovered
and published these writings labeled them the first Thanksgiving, that
they were describing the first Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
But he did it kind of arbitrarily.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, she started publishing articles and recipes about it. A
description of Turkey from the other surviving written record of
the event convinced her that Turkey needed to be involved
in this meal, and beginning in eighteen forty six, she
started a letter campaign.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Mm hmm. Five American presidents.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Five received a letter from Hale, President Taylor, President Fillmore,
President Pierce, President Buchanan, and then President Lincoln, and.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
More than one letter a piece, right, Like this was
like at least once a year she would send these letters.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, yeah, she was very, very determined, and it paid off.
Her efforts were successful when Abraham Lincoln declared that Thursday,
eighteen sixty three, which was during the Civil War, as
a national Thanksgiving Day. He advised Americans to quote commend
to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners,
(29:12):
or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife, and to heal
the wounds of the nation. Hale also really helped sell
this idea that the first Thanksgiving was a beautiful love
fest between the Native Americans and the Pilgrims, that version
we hear in elementary school.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
She was also the one who kind of cemented our
concept of the visual concept of the Pilgrims that we
learn in elementary school, that whole black and white outfit
and the whole thing. Yeah, in reality, they would have
been wearing like, I mean, they were real poor and
they've kind of been run out of England, Like they
were wearing whatever they could afford, which was probably a
wild hodgepodge of different colors and cheap fabrics.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah. I've always wondered about that, But yeah, Sarah Josefa.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Hale real Victoria, you know about stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, she was.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Indeed, her idea of a Thanksgiving meal did include turkey
and stuffing, but also steak, pork, mutton, geese, ducks, chicken pie,
roasted vegetables, lots of gravy, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, and
pumpkin pie.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You know, I have to go on a brief a side.
I love pumpkin and I love pumpkin pie, but my
family is really weird about it, and they won't eat it.
They've never had it, they won't used to try it.
Have they had sweet potato pie? No, okay, but they've
had sweet potato casserole. And I told you that's something
(30:37):
that goes first. And it's become a source of contention
because in my view, if I'm cooking the meal, then they're.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Stuck with what you give it.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I want to eat some pumpkin pie, right, but they
won't eat it. I did make one year.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I made a version I thought they might like, which
is sort of a pumpkin cheesecake concoction, and they didn't
eat it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I'm so hellis of people eating pumpkins. Oh on Thanksgiving,
you can.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Make one for yourself. I mean that, I know that
that's like extra work.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, and I'm afraid I'll eat the whole thing. I
probably would, But about pumpkin pie. By eighteen sixty nine,
pumpkin pie was called the inevitable Thanksgiving dish, So that's been.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Around for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh yeah, and if you're wondering why the last Thursday
of the month for this holiday. Hale thought that this
would give women, who were pretty much doing all of
the cooking at the time, time to prepare this huge
feast on top of the traditional weekly big Sunday meal.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
So yeah, so place it on a Thursday, and that way, ladies,
you have time to clean up your dishes and do
it again on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yep, that's why it's on a Thursday. Huh.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
In eighteen seventy six, we have the first Thanksgiving Day
football game with Yale v.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Princeton.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Each president after Lincoln has declared the national Day of
Thanksgiving along with what date it would fall on, and
typically it was the last Thursday of the month. During
President Franklin Roosevelt's time in office, so he specified that
Thanksgiving should be celebrated on the fourth Thursday, never on
the rare fifth Thursday of November, as opposed to President
(32:29):
Lincoln's last Thursday of the month, which could be the
fifth one. FDR did try to move Thanksgiving to the
third Thursday of the month in order to extend the
holiday shopping season.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Oh that's what he was angling for.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, which which starts after Thanksgiving and boosts the economy
in nineteen forty one, but some states were not on
board and did not comply, and he and Congress moved
it to the fourth Thursday.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
In nineteen forty two. So one year later they're like, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
They're like, oh, never mind, never mind.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
People are not happy with this.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, maybe not the last Thursday, but certainly not the third. Okay,
four fourth or compromise.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The first Macy's Day Parade took place in nineteen twenty four.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And the Turkey timer popped up in the nineteen fifties
as the result of a serious brainstorm done by the
California Turkey Producer's Advisory Board.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
A serious brainstorm.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Serious. Oh yeah, Well, they were worried that turkey was
being given a bad name due to people's poor cooking
of turkey on Thanksgiving, and so they it was like
a three day they locked themselves in a room and
we're all like, we need to solve this problem. How
can we let people know when their turkey is done?
And finally, the picture that I have in my head
(33:48):
is of this one guy like in an office chair,
spinning around, staring at the ceiling hopelessly and his eyes
fell upon a fire sprinkler, Oh yeah, in the ceiling,
and he was like, there's a little bit inside a
fire sprinkler that melts when it hits a certain temperature,
and that's how the water knows to release. That's how
(34:10):
the water is triggered to release. And he was like,
I can do that in a turkey timer and so yeah,
so it works by a little thing in their melts
when the turkey is at the right temperature. Hypothetically.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, my most is not trusted.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Use a probe thermometer, y'all.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Dope. She is very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
But I do love the story.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I do.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That's a great story. As we touched on in our
Turkey episode, the first turkey was officially pardoned by President
George H. W. Bush in nineteen eighty nine. And if
you want kind of a funny, I'll say funny.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, No, it's funny. Kristin. Kristen is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Ristin Conger of Unlady. You like our past stuff Mom
Never Told You? Co host, I was a video producer
over at stuff I Never Told You, And we made
a video, a hearstory video all about this. If you
want to check it out. It's on YouTube. It definitely
focuses more on Sarah Josifa Hale and her eccentricities. Yes,
(35:09):
that's a good word. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I love it. It's really it's really funny.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, And we should say on Thanksgiving, some indigenous people's
fast and observe a national day of morning. So I
think it's good to to keep all of this history
in mind. It does feel as though we've become very
divorced from what it once.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Was, from from what like the reality of the situation
could have possibly been. And and yeah, and that that
syrupy story is it'll fine for kindergarteners. I'm not saying
that you should be like, well, right, timmy, don't scarred
me for life, but but yeah, no, it's it's it's
really important to keep in mind. And as it is
(35:55):
with all of the with all of the terrible things
we tell you about history on this show.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yes you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
But as we've mentioned a little bit in this episode,
the United States is not the only country that celebrates Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And turkey is not the only thing that's consumed. That's right,
And we'll get to both of those things after we
get back from a quick break for a word. We're sponsor.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
So. A Gallup poll in this our year of twenty
eighteen found that about eight percent of Americans don't eat meat,
about five percent being vegetarian and three percent vegan. And
that is a smallish percentage, but it equals out to
over twenty six million people. So what are those folks
to do on a holiday built around turkey?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Oh? What are they to do?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
The kind of traditional answer at this point is tofurky
m hm. In nineteen ninety five, the first soki meal
was sold locally an organ It was a collaboration between
a tempa maker and a vegetarian catering company. The tempa
maker was one Seth Tibbett, who had founded the brand
Turtle Island Foods. And he started with an incubator, an incubator,
(37:15):
because that's how you make tempa. We did a whole
episode about it. It involves fungus. It's pretty rad, you know,
see that episode for more. But yeah, he made his
first incubator out of a discarded refrigerator that was heated
with strands of Christmas lights.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
My goodness.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
By this point he had moved on from that. But yeah,
the catering company Higher Taste had been making these two
order stuffed tofu roasts that were glazed with orange juice
and soy sauce. They were pretty popular, and Tibbitt to
go with this, mixed some wild rice and cranberry into
his tempa, stamped it into little drummat forms, and they
packaged the two together. Is this nice little frozen entree.
(37:53):
Tibbitt insisted on the name Tofurky over these strong objections
of everyone else involved. They were like, that's ridiculous. Can
we have a little bit of korum here? And he
was like, no, no, Tofurkey. In nineteen ninety seven, they
bought a recipe for wheat gluten and started mixing their
tofu with that, which which made for a much better
texture after freezing and reheating, because tofu onto itself goes
(38:15):
a little bit like spongy when it's been frozen and reheated. Yeah,
and meanwhile, folks were so entertained by the name that
the product was getting a lot of press and orders
started pouring in from all over the country. It was
a wild success. In twenty ten, a food co op
in Minneapolis publicly pardoned a tofurky of course, of course,
(38:37):
And yeah, I don't know. I don't know if y'all
listeners have ever had one. They're kind of rubbery, they don't,
you know, they don't really brown. Well, they roll around
in roasting pans maddeningly. But a writer for The New
Yorker Vegetarian by the name of Jonathan Kaufman said that
it's quote nonetheless a bit turkey like, and it's trusty, stodginess.
(39:01):
It's the thing that's on the holiday table because it's
supposed to be there.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, that's kind of wonderful. He was right about the name.
I guess.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I feel like I just have vastly different tastes than
almost everyone in my family. But I love turkey and
I never get to eat it. But they all act
like they'd be fine if it wasn't and I've been
determined to keep it, keep the tradition going. But that's
why we cook ham as well, because they would rather
have ham. But yeah, they definitely think it's just the
(39:36):
thing that's supposed to be there.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, that the whole ham thing is still mystifying to
me because beside my family that I grew up having
holidays with I was the Jewish side of my family,
and so we did not eat ham. Well, I mean,
my dad and my grandma and I all ate ham,
but at family holidays where we had some slightly more
pious observers, right right, we certainly wouldn't serve a ham.
(39:59):
And so the very idea, I'm like, I've gotten used
to the idea that people eat it for Christmas, but
I'm still mystified by its showing up on Thanksgiving tables.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, I think it's just because some people don't really
dog turkey.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh I love a turkey.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
I do too.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And for my brother that is a vegetarian, now, there's
just so much food anyway that he didn't.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Ask for a tofurkey. Oh yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I mean there's some really interesting looking recipes for making
your own tofu roast or other meat alternative roast on online.
So you know, if you're not really into cooking and
you like to for I mean it, also, if you
like tofurky, go for it. Oh totally, don't let our
opinions sway. You like what you like, like would you like?
(40:45):
But if you're less than happy with it, there are
so many recipes out there for cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But now tofurkey side aside, it's time for.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
A word about Canada.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Canada too has a Thanksgiving with a lot of the
same themes and a lot of the same foods. One
thing we should mention the indigenous peoples of Canada were
also doing something similar to a Thanksgiving feast long before
any Europeans showed up.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
The first known day of a European based thanks Saving
in Canada took place in fifteen seventy eight, after Martin
Frobischer's expedition came to a safe conclusion. Frobisher's fleet in
the present day Nunavat tribe were in attendance or not.
Another similarity multiple origin stories here. Another version goes that
(41:34):
in sixteen oh six, a meat heavy celebration in Port
Royal on November fourteenth, sixteen oh six, hosted by Samuel D. Champlin,
might have been the first European based Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
The meal, a.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Part of the Order of Good Cheer, brought together the
indigenous peoples of the region and the Europeans. The Order
of Good Cheer, by the way, was a dinner series
with the goal of preventing malnutrition and scurvy among colonists.
Oh an order of good cheer Dinner series.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah. Also note here that I either either of these stories.
Canadians beat us to the Thanksgiving punch by like a
good couple decades, which is interesting. Yeah go Canada, Yeah, Yeah,
go Canada.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Another story goes settlers in Canada might not have survived
at all without the help of Mickmack, who taught them
how to ice fish and introduce them to a bear
with a lot of vitamin C in it. As a
thank you, the colonists invited the Micmac to their November
fourteenth celebration with food, muskets, and perhaps the first play
ever performed in North America.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
They had to do Neptune.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Basically, it was the story of the indigenous people swearing
fealty to the newly arrived explorers after these newcomers had
received congrats from the god Neptune. These explorers also bought
smallpox with them and conflict and war. An organization called
Canada first started pushing for a white Protestant Canada in
(43:01):
the eighteen sixties, and Thanksgiving was a part of that push.
And yeah, remember Thanksgiving used to be much more religious.
The national Thanksgiving Day was declared to be on November
sixth by Parliament in eighteen seventy nine, and it's moved
a few times, but in nineteen fifty seven it was
decreed to fall on the second Monday in October.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
And it is an optional holiday in Atlantic Canada and
like not really a big deal at all in Quebec,
where it is known, by the way, not as Thanksgiving
but as the help me with the sanny axion DeRoss.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
A few other cultural differences because there's no holiday to
buffer Halloween and Christmas. Because this happens in early October,
some Canadians start putting up Christmas decorations the day after Halloween.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
My stomach churns at that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Also, another Thanksgiving tradition in the United States is Black Friday,
the shopping day after Thanksgiving. And although it started in
the United States, of course, because you know, Canadians don't
have the next day off, it's being picked up in
Canada now too.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Black Friday.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Black Friday as in after the US Thanksgiving, I think.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
So yeah, huh yeah. In order to prevent Canadians who
live near the border like just going over to the
US for sales. They're like to keep the money in Canada. Okay,
we'll have sales too.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
My mom and I I have a history of Black
Friday shopping and it has been fascinating to see it,
the rise and fall of it, because now it's kind
of wonderful in my opinion, because there's nobody really there.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Oh yeah, oh man, people.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Come in around like one or two, which is when
the doorbusters are over. So I don't understand why, but
most people are doing their shopping online.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, well, it got to be such a terrible thing,
oh for so long. But yeah, Oh. I had a
friend one time, one family that I was spending a
lot of Thanksgivings with, the husband would stay up all night, yeah,
to get there so early and do the thing. And
I was just like, Yeah, that is a dedication and
(45:11):
a tolerance for other human people that I do not possess.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I worked on Black Friday for a while, so I've
seen some things. I've seen some things.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Man, You've got like a lot of Thanksgiving scars.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
But I love it. And this brings us to the
end of this episode.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
For a little peek behind the curtain because we're not
going to do listener mail. We're actually recording this on Halloween. Yeah,
because I'm about to I'm going on at vacation for
a little bit and then we're going to be in
New Orleans and in New York. It feels like time
traveling in a strange way. It does, it does.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I Also, I don't think we've ever been this far
ahead in recording the show. It feels real strange.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And I don't like it. I know, like, should I
be getting ready for Thanksgiving? It's Halloween.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Also, in case anyone's worried, I found the butterfinger today,
so I got off bart of my candies.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
We won't be destroyed.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Congratulations, Thank you. I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
But we really hope that you enjoy your Thanksgiving, if
you celebrate it, whatever you happen to be celebrating.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, we hope that whether or not you're celebrating, that
you have lots of things to be thankful for, and
that you're eating something great.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yes, yes, We're all about that.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Or if you are choosing to take a day of fast,
that tomorrow you will eat something great.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.
We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we
enjoyed bringing it back. We hope that you are all
doing well whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
It is you're doing, absolutely because we do appreciate you
so much.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yes, yes, and we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
We would, and you can contact us in a couple
of ways.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
You can email us at Hello, atsavorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
We're also on social media. We are at this very
current moment on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod,
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
(47:32):
are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio. I'm
Annie Reese and I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Laurn Volga Bam, and today we have a classic episode
for you about Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, and I will ask the question even though I
feel it it's obvious.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Okay, any particular reason this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It is the week of Thanksgiving as we record this,
and so the episode originally aired in November of twenty eighteen,
so it kind of like came up in the rotation
and I was like, oh, oh, we haven't classic to
that yet. Okay, yeah, let's let's do that.
Speaker 3 (00:45):
I like that we haven't classiced it yet.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Oh yeah, yeah, No, I love I love verbing and nown.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Yes, yes, and we have done.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
We've done several topics around American Thanksgiving. I am preparing
to do all of my foods as we speak.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
I've got a lot of stuff left to do. Yeah yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Projects, yeah, there will be delicious food at the end.
Although I have since we've done this, I have further
cut some foods out.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Oh yeah, okay, yes, Well, it's just.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Like we don't have as big of the gathering as
we used to, especially after the pandemic, and there was
just so much we were making that. I was like,
this is way too much, this is too much. I
think we need to since I'm part of the I'm
like one of the.
Speaker 4 (01:50):
Yah.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Yeah, like then this is what's going. I'm sorry to say.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
But also I have to say I've seen a rise
in Thanksgiving products that are like in a.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
Can y yeah all of thanks oh yeah, oh sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
It's been interesting to see and they sell out quickly,
as most of the products that we talk about like
that do.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Yeah, those kind of stunt products, sure, you know, like
it's like it's like a next day leftover Thanksgiving turkey
sandwich as a soup and you're like what and they're like,
you're welcome, there's only one hundred cans of it, hurry
or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we certainly, Oh
my gosh, we can certainly do another like marketing stunt
(02:42):
short about wacky holiday shenanigans like that. But yeah, yeah,
we're my My Thanksgiving is shifted a little bit as well.
Since we did this episode, we kind of dropped off
doing traditional Thanksgiving in my little like friends Giving situation,
and so my buddy and his mother we still go
(03:03):
up to their place every year and hang out, but
they always pick I don't know, some interesting menu that
they want to explore more of the cuisine of. And
so I think this year it's like a Persian theme.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I'm working. I haven't like quite worked out the dessert
that I'm bringing, but I just ordered like, like no
baked cheesecake, a bunch of pomegranate juice and pistachio seeds,
and we're gonna I've got some gelatin at home. I
don't know, We're gonna see what happens.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I love that. I love that so much. That sounds
so fun because I lamented I think in this episode.
With other episodes, it kind of annoys me that Thanksgiving
and Christmas are like right next to each other. It's
just like the same meal. Yeah I wish it was.
I love the meal, but I wish they weren't so
(03:54):
close to it. Yeah, like two and two months come on, Yeah,
that's come on. So I like the idea of exploring
other things. I am excited because this year I already
know what I'm going to do with the leftover turkey.
I found this super recipe okay has yoke in it.
I'm very very excited. I'm excited, but I also was
(04:18):
thinking about which I think I talked. I talked about
this in here too, but I was thinking about the
first time I was on the show as a host.
I was doing my Thanksgiving and so many of you
wrote in to me, and you were so kind, like
because I was so nervous when I first started, and
(04:39):
I didn't know about the fan interaction bid. I didn't
know what I was going to do. But I remember
when some of you wrote it and were like, Annie,
have you done this part yet? Have you done it?
Because I had spoken about my Thanksgiving and it was
just really sweet.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
I really appreciated it. So if any of you are
still listening, I hope that you are. I remember that.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Yeah, We're always thankful
for y'all.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
We are, we are, But I guess we should let
pass Andy and Lauren take it away. Sure, Hello, and
welcome to Savor. I'm Annie Reas and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum.
And today we're talking about Thanksgiving here in the United States.
(05:27):
It's happening like tomorrow if you're listening to this podcast
the day that it comes out. Yeah, but it's got
a lot of fun stuff and a lot of sad stuff,
but it's interesting nonetheless, Yes, stuff going on. So I
would say you could listen to it at any time
and enjoy it at any time. Absolutely, but it is
appropriate for the season as it comes out right, Yes,
(05:47):
And I have a lot, a lot of thoughts on Thanksgiving.
It's a holiday that I love, but I do find
it has the most family drama of the holidays in
my case, although last Christmas that might have been the winner,
That might have been the all time winner. I usually
do the cooking, which is very stressful, but I do
enjoy it. Last year, for instance, my little brother announced
(06:10):
he had become a vegetarian the day before Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (06:14):
Oh no, he didn't, he did. Was he doing it
just to spite you?
Speaker 3 (06:19):
I'm not sure, Lauren. I still ponder this to this day.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
But that's why our recent episode on Satan was appropriate,
because there was a last minute rush to find some
oh yeah, he could.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
Eat mm huh huh.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
And for Thanksgiving we cook a turkey and a picking turkey.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
I've never heard of this, and I love it.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Yeah, it's a smaller turkey that you cooked the night
before and you just pick at it.
Speaker 3 (06:46):
The picking turkey. I don't know if that's a thing.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
My uncle says he invented it, but he's a known exaggerator,
so I'm not sure. The listeners write in about that
we have ham, corn bread dressing, sweet p tata castrole
with out marshmallows, and this is the one that goes first.
This is the dish that is gone. And it has
been a source of many scandals in my family, Hiding
of tupperwares, finding of tupperwaars, leaving of empty tupperwares in
(07:12):
the refrigerator. And then you go to get some and
you're so excited and you go right up.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
And there's nothing.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Passive aggressive notes, Oh man, okay, deal. They keep campaigning
for me to make two and it's not gonna happen.
Homemade cranberry sauce, giblet gravy, rice, green beans, chocolate pie,
and a rotating probably I mix up every year, so
it's a lot of food.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
Wow yeah, and all of that, Bye, Like you are
the one who cooks all of this. Does anyone help you?
Speaker 1 (07:38):
My mom she taught me so that I could continue
the tradition, and then sort of just disappeared which I love.
She stays in the kitchen with me and keeps me company,
but I generally do most of the Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Huh. It's always been or in my adult life anyways,
it's always been a very collaborative effort between me and
whatever her friends I'm spending the holiday with. Because yeah,
Thanksgiving is a weird one for me because my dad
was in the restaurant industry when I was growing up,
So for him, Thanksgiving started at like one or two
am when he would get up and go to work
and start cooking like forty turkeys and like thirty gallons
(08:15):
of mashed potatoes and like just crazy numbers of stuff.
So a, he hated those foods. Those foods were never
anything he ever wanted to eat, especially not on a
nice day. Be I mean, like he would come home
and go to sleep.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Like that, right, Yeah, I think forty turkeys might do
that to.
Speaker 2 (08:31):
You, absolutely, But so yeah, it was never a family
thing for the two of us. Like growing up, I
would go with my grandmother to my cousin's house and
I don't remember any of the food we.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Ever ate there, didn't make an impression.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I do remember that she made this cranberry relish. She
called it a relish.
Speaker 4 (08:47):
It was.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It was very bitter and had like orange peel in it.
That's the only thing, literally, the only thing.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
Everything else is.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Everything else is just lost to the mist of time
because it wasn't that bit of a deal for me. Sure,
but I don't think I was exposed to a lot
of traditional Thanksgiving foods until after college, when my friends
and I started hosting our own. For me, the important
dishes are the turkey, the stuffing, the gravy, and having
homemade cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie. Oh critical, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(09:19):
These days my roommates and I go up to one
of their mom's house and cook together and like day
drink and it's pretty it's pretty fabulous.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
I start drinking at like nine am on Thanksgiving because
you're in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
In the kitchen, what else are you doing?
Speaker 3 (09:34):
It's a holiday. Yeah, I kind of slowly day drink.
Speaker 1 (09:37):
But one Thanksgiving a pipe under our sink broke and
it flooded our kitchen.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
Oh no, which.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Meant that we didn't eat until really late. Usually we
around two pm. At this time, it was like eight
pm or something. Oh wow, Because I normally start day
drinking so early. By the time we ate, I was drink.
Speaker 3 (09:58):
I was so drunk.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
And I fixed up this huge plate, like really ambitious
plate of food, and I put it down and promptly
fell asleep at the table.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
And there's a funny picture.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Of me just put my head on my arm, sprawled
and people ate the.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
Food off my plate.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Oh they Oh nice, dude.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I'm getting furious thinking about it. And when I woke up,
it was all gone. It's the only Thanksgiving that has
ever happened that there were no left evers.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Wow. So I didn't get to have anything.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
I still think about it to this day. Clearly I would.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
I've never had a disaster like quite like that, but
uh yeah, I think the worst things, like I dropped
my phone in the oven one year.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Oh no, oh god.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, that was interesting. We had to gone it wasn't
it wasn't it was okay, it fell through like a crack.
It involved some very creative craft making in order to
retrieve it.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Oh, I've really entrigued.
Speaker 2 (11:04):
But other than that, like I don't know, like I've
like exploded a pyrexpan.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Oh yeah, my goodness. Yeah, yeah, I've had.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
I could regale you with so many stories of Thanksgiving
misapps fiascos, but we should really get to our question.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I suppose Thanksgiving. What is it?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Well, Thanksgiving is a holiday celebrated by many people in
the United States and Canada. Here it falls on the
fourth Thursday of November. In Canada, it's the second Monday
in October. It's a national holiday here. Lots of folks
have the day off. Businesses tend to be closed. It's
family oriented and centers around a feast type meal involving
lots of the foods we've been talking about. And it's
(11:52):
ostensibly a day to be thankful for whatever good things
are bountiful.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
In your life.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Ostensibly, yeah, Exactly what foods people eat varries by region
and by family. You know, corn bread dressing versus bread stuffing,
Pecan pie versus apple versus pumpkin versus sweet potato, corn
pudding versus sweet potato pudding, Brussels versus green beans. Is
your extra starch, rice or mac and cheese or grits
or mashed potatoes. Is everything in casserole form with cheese
(12:20):
and cream. Sweet potatoes versus canned yams, corn bread versus yeast,
rolls versus biscuits, lots of options.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Very much, very much, lots of options.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
And General Mills collected data on recipe searches one year,
twenty sixteen from Betty Crocker dot com, Pillsbury dot com,
and tablespoon dot com. November first through Thanksgiving Day. They
collected all these recipe searches and put out a list
of the most popular recipes by state. And I mean,
like a lot of it was stuff that you would expect,
(12:52):
maybe like a pumpkin cheesecake shows up in there, mac
and cheese, things like that. But the one I suspect
that football season had some effect on this too, But
Buffalo chicken dip showed up a lot. It was like
three states' most popular recipe.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
The most popular.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Huah, yeah, I would imagine football, and I find just
in general, when you're doing a pot look type thing,
that's a really popular option.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Oh it's a great one. I'm not disin the buffalo shoulder.
It's delicious. Yes, yeah, it's just a little outside the
ramble what we normally think.
Speaker 4 (13:23):
Of, right, it's more modern, more modern, yes, So let's
talk about some nutrition.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
Yeah, long laugh ha ha ha.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
I have to say I get angry every year when
I see those magazine headlines that are like, hey, ladies,
here's not here's a way out to not gain weight
over the holiday, and its tips like don't eat the
skin of the turkey, don't eat the pie.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
It's one day a year.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Enjoyed, right, And I've been there, I've done that thing,
and it's miserable.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
It is miserable if you are wondering.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
In general, people gain one to three pounds over the holidays,
but most people lose it in the first couple of
months of the year, and the problem comes in when
you don't and it compounds.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Really, binging on a single meal is not going to
do much of anything. It's continuing to eat rich foods
throughout the season, be it like leftovers from these feast
meals or just having multiple celebrations. That is going to
affect your weight. If you can enjoy yourself for one
day and like eat your leftover turkey on top of
some greens instead of mashed potatoes, I would say that
(14:32):
that's a better plan than trying to abstain entirely.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Yeah, and you're just going to enjoy yourself more, I
would say, And yes, for folks with eating disorders, I
know it is not as simple as enjoy it, right,
that's a whole separate episode. But we do see you absolutely,
So let's get into some Thanksgiving number ooh yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
According to the American Farm Bureau Federation, the average cost
for a Thanksgiving meal for ten people is about forty
nine dollars twelve cents.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
Which, if that sounds low to you, their data is
a tiny bit skewed. It's assuming that you're shopping at
a large supermarket chain with low prices, and that you're
probably in a rural area where food costs are a
little bit lower, and that you're buying a real no
frill meal, turkey stuffing, sweet potatoes, rolls, cranberries, peas, pumpkin pie,
and a veggie tray. That's it, respondence to various surveys,
(15:23):
reports spending around one hundred to two hundred dollars on
their meals.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:29):
For me, these days, Thanksgiving is a pretty small celebration.
But when I was younger, it used to be like
fifteen to twenty people. Oh wow, Yeah, and there was
the coveted adult table seats and one year when I
was nine, I campaigned really hard, please let me sit
at the adult table. But I had accidentally switched. I
(15:55):
promised this was an accident. No one believes me. But
I had picked up a cup of wine, set up
a cup of juice, and when I took a sip
of it, I did a spit take and got it
all over everyone and on the nice white tablecloth. I
was immediately reallyted back to the children's table, and they
(16:17):
never invited me again. I was like sixteen, still at
the children's table. It's a big fiasco that I call.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
Anyway.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
If we're talking the calorie count, on average, the whole
shebang comes out around four five hundred calories.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Goodness, Yeah, which is actually lower than I thought it
would big. Yeah, that's not too bad. I mean really
for all that wonderful food. M Yeah, for just the
amount of like just gravy shots I take.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yeah, here's just that. Hit me with another.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Nine percent of Americans eat Thanksgiving out at a restaurant.
In twenty sixteen, American soldiers stationed overseas eight thirty seven
hundred and sixty pounds of turkey, twenty four hundred and
fifty pounds of ham, nine, one hundred and fourteen pounds
of stuffing and eight hundred and seventy nine gallons of
eggnog on Thanksgiving Day.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
I don't understand the eggnog thing. That's not a Thanksgiving food,
it's a Christmas food. I mean, you know, people serving
our country get to do whatever they want in terms
of eating when they are stationed out wherever.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
But why you can reach us at.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Numbers from PETA say that each year forty five million
turkeys are killed in the US for Thanksgiving. Ninety percent
of American Thanksgiving meals do include turkey. The Butterball Hotline
answers one hundred thousand questions between November and December. And
to bring up Stephen Colvert all the time, but back
I call on the Colvert Report, and I think even
on his The New show, The New Old Show.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
He's new host of an old show.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
He had a segment where he answered questions on the
Butterball Hotline, so you might get.
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Him when you call.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Oh my goodness, that's darling.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
When it comes to that dreaded scenario. The turkey is ready,
the wonderful smell has filled the kitchen. You go to
take it out and pop right onto the floor.
Speaker 3 (18:16):
What do you do?
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Survey says that forty one percent of those surveyed would
still serve the turkey if no one had seen the
incident and wouldn't tell their guests.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Ah.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Thirty four percent said they would still serve it, but
they would tell the folks what happened. Four percent said
they would order pizza. I would totally serve it.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Oh man, I would. I would definitely serve it.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
I think that has happened before.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
We were just like, oh yeah, yeah, just I mean,
come on your floor is probably fine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Didn't that happen?
Speaker 1 (18:49):
This isn't Julia Child. Didn't she have a moment where
she did something like that.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
It wasn't like a whole turkey or something, but yeah,
she was just like a bloop right back.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
In the pan. Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
According to one survey, with turkey out of the picture,
Stuffing is the most important dish required for making a
Thanksgiving meal a Thanksgiving meal. After that it's mashed potatoes and.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
A quick word here.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
I for a long time got very confused about stuffing
and dressing. The stuffing is the stuff actually in the turkey?
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Yes, Well, these days they don't really recommend putting, cooking
stuffing inside of a turkey, because it's really just going
to slow down you're cooking time and make the rest
of the turkey dry out. But I think stuffing and
dressing are two different words for the same thing.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
That's what I thought too.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Yeah, is it just for a long time, it's been different,
different preparation methods, I suppose.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Well, I think that the dressing was also kept inside
of the bird for a long time. Oh yeah, I
think it's just two different words.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Interesting.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Well, my family doesn't do mashed potatoes, but it does
make me think of that Friends episode, or Monica is
cooking the Thanksgiving meal for everyone, and everyone wants a
specific type of potato that is the tradition in their family.
Potato time, mashed with lumps and whipped with peas and onions.
And because it's a sitcom, they get locked out. Everything
(20:07):
gets burned, and I think they order pizza. They like,
order food from somewhere, so no one got there for damn.
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finds that Thanksgiving is
the deadliest holiday on the road. Don't drink and drive, folks, Yeah, don't.
I find this really surprising because I would have thought
New Year's Eve. Our New Year's was the worst. I know,
(20:29):
super Bowl it's not like a holiday, but the Super
Bowl Sunday is a really bad one.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Oh yeah, yeah. Well I think that those, you know,
I think that more people are likely to like call
cabs on a day like New Year New Year's where
they they're going out two party, but you know they're like,
oh man, I'm just having three bottles of wine with
my family.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
That's gonna be That's gonna be fine, right, No, no, no, no, no, no,
it's not. So that's our our Thanksgiving overview. And we
have a lot of history.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Oh yes, a lot. Yes, But first we have a
quick break forward from our sponsor and we're back. Thank
you sponsored, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
For many of US Americans, we probably know the story
of Thanksgiving that we heard in elementary school is not
exactly historically accurate.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Nope. However, there is a seed of truth to.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
It, one very small pumpkin seed.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Yes, first off, the dates can get a little fuzzy,
but here it goes. And this actually really surprised me.
I was kind of shocked that they were like, well,
we don't know for sure, but we think it's the
state after the one hundred and two passengers on the
Mayflower Madelandfall near Massachusetts in sixteen twenty and formed the
town of Plymouth. Things were rough during their first winter
(22:00):
in the New World. Most of the Pilgrims stayed on
the Mayflower. Only about half of the original colonists lived
to see the spring. In sixteen twenty one, the fifty
three surviving Pilgrims and the Peduxit band of the Wampanoag
tribe came together and held a three day fall harvest feast.
(22:20):
This is generally thought of as the first Thanksgiving. There
were other feasts of thanks before then. It was sort
of a thing, these days of prayer for military victories
or for food, or a lot of times it had
a religious aspect to it. So these days of Thanksgiving,
This by far was not the first time people did that.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Oh yeah, no, not not Europeans and also certainly not
the indigenous peoples.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
No, no, no no.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
But this is the one that historians point to as
the first. And we'll get into why that is a
little later. And a lot of myths surrounded this event
and why it took place. One story goes that the
pilgrims were out fouling for turkeys, geese, and duck, and
they quote in one day killed as much as served
(23:09):
the company almost a week, so a lot. Soon after,
about ninety members of the Wampanoag tribe showed up at
the settlement and the two groups interacted without incident. They
contributed venison to the feast, and the feast probably featured eels, fish, shellfish, vegetables,
stewed cornmeal, cranberry's pumpkin, and of course per drunk. Folks
(23:33):
ran races and fired guns. In celebration, people sat on
the ground or on barrels, their plates balanced precariously on
their laps. This feast resulted in a treaty between the
two groups, but it only lasted until King Philip's War
from sixteen seventy five to sixteen seventy six. Relations between
the two groups had been strained for a while as
(23:54):
more and more colonist poured into the colony and disease.
The colonists killed about ninety percent of the indigenous peoples
from sixteen sixteen to sixteen nineteen. Yeah, and to be clear,
King Philip was the leader of the Wampanoag tribe.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
It's the name that the English gave him.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
He was the son of the man who celebrated this
first Thanksgiving with the Pilgrims. King Philip's War broke out
after some of King Philip's men, his Wampanoag name was Metacomet, murdered,
Christian Convert and the Punkapog interpreter John Sassimon. Hundreds of
colonists and thousands of Native Americans died. Some estimates put
(24:36):
the death toll at thirty percent of the English population
and fifty percent of the Native American population. The town
of Springfield and Massachusetts was burned down, the food stores
of the Narraganessens tribe was destroyed. Metacomet went to New
York for reinforcements, but was instead attacked by the Mohawk tribe,
(24:57):
and he was killed soon after returning home. Some accounts
say he was beheaded and dismembered. His allies were sold
into slavery, and his head was put on a spike,
where it remained for a quarter of a century. And
this was the again the son of the tribe leader
who celebrated that first Thanksgiving. Right right, Okay. Other historians
(25:19):
think that the first Thanksgiving took place in sixteen thirty seven,
after Massachusetts Governor John Winthrop called for a day of
Thanksgiving to celebrate the slaughter of seven hundred peaquats.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
Oh yeah, that's not nice.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Early settlers in Virginia celebrated an annual Thanksgiving as far
back as sixteen nineteen, and if you go back even
further to fifteen sixty five, Florida, members of the Salloy
tribe had meal of Thanksgiving with Spanish settlers that included
things like salted pork and garbonzo beans.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:57):
Also, when it comes to Squanto, who's someone a lot
of US Americans are probably familiar with when it comes
to this whole Thanksgiving tale. As far as we know,
he did in fact help out newly arriving settlers in
the early sixteen hundreds as a translator and a teacher,
showing them more to catch fish and how to grow corn. However,
(26:19):
he was captured by the English in sixteen fourteen and
sold into slavery.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
Over the next couple of years.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
He learned English and he did make it back to
New England and sixteen nineteen, but by then the Patuxit tribe,
which was his tribe, had been wiped out by smallpox.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
Thanksgiving, Yeah, right before you go celebrate with your family.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, how you can get drunk on wine and regale
them with these fun facts.
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yeah, the European settlers did really terrible things.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
They did, and we're not through.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
When the Constitution was enacted, the Continental Congress called for
a national Thanksgiving. Then Congress left Thanksgiving up to be
decided by the states in seventeen ninety eight, some of
which really didn't like the federal government getting involved in
any religious observations, which, again, Thanksgiving was for a long
time a religious thing, right. The South didn't really get
(27:16):
into it like the North did, and it was the
source of a lot of controversy, more divisive than unifying.
And this brings us to the mid eighteen hundreds, when
the North dominated the federal government and the country was
more divided than ever during the Civil War, and it
brings us to Sarah Josipha Hale. She was the editor
(27:38):
of the magazine Godie's Lady's Book and also the author
of Mary Had a Little Lamb Just for another fun
tidbit about her, and she thought that a national day
of Thanksgiving was just what America needed to unify.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
She had found the writings of Edward Winslow, one of
the two attendees at this supposed first thank Giving who
wrote about it, whose records still survive, and she wanted
to revive this. Of note, the Boston clergyman who rediscovered
and published these writings labeled them the first Thanksgiving, that
they were describing the first Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (28:13):
But he did it kind of arbitrarily.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, she started publishing articles and recipes about it. A
description of Turkey from the other surviving written record of
the event convinced her that Turkey needed to be involved
in this meal, and beginning in eighteen forty six, she
started a letter campaign.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
Mm hmm. Five American presidents.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Five received a letter from Hale, President Taylor, President Fillmore,
President Pierce, President Buchanan, and then President Lincoln, and.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
More than one letter a piece, right, Like this was
like at least once a year she would send these letters.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
Yes, yeah, she was very, very determined, and it paid off.
Her efforts were successful when Abraham Lincoln declared that Thursday,
eighteen sixty three, which was during the Civil War, as
a national Thanksgiving Day. He advised Americans to quote commend
to his tender care all those who have become widows, orphans, mourners,
(29:12):
or sufferers in the lamentable civil strife, and to heal
the wounds of the nation. Hale also really helped sell
this idea that the first Thanksgiving was a beautiful love
fest between the Native Americans and the Pilgrims, that version
we hear in elementary school.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
She was also the one who kind of cemented our
concept of the visual concept of the Pilgrims that we
learn in elementary school, that whole black and white outfit
and the whole thing. Yeah, in reality, they would have
been wearing like, I mean, they were real poor and
they've kind of been run out of England, Like they
were wearing whatever they could afford, which was probably a
wild hodgepodge of different colors and cheap fabrics.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Yeah. I've always wondered about that, But yeah, Sarah Josefa.
Speaker 2 (29:58):
Hale real Victoria, you know about stuff.
Speaker 3 (30:00):
Yeah, she was.
Speaker 2 (30:01):
Indeed, her idea of a Thanksgiving meal did include turkey
and stuffing, but also steak, pork, mutton, geese, ducks, chicken pie,
roasted vegetables, lots of gravy, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, and
pumpkin pie.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
You know, I have to go on a brief a side.
I love pumpkin and I love pumpkin pie, but my
family is really weird about it, and they won't eat it.
They've never had it, they won't used to try it.
Have they had sweet potato pie? No, okay, but they've
had sweet potato casserole. And I told you that's something
(30:37):
that goes first. And it's become a source of contention
because in my view, if I'm cooking the meal, then they're.
Speaker 2 (30:44):
Stuck with what you give it.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I want to eat some pumpkin pie, right, but they
won't eat it. I did make one year.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I made a version I thought they might like, which
is sort of a pumpkin cheesecake concoction, and they didn't
eat it.
Speaker 3 (30:59):
I'm so hellis of people eating pumpkins. Oh on Thanksgiving,
you can.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Make one for yourself. I mean that, I know that
that's like extra work.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, and I'm afraid I'll eat the whole thing. I
probably would, But about pumpkin pie. By eighteen sixty nine,
pumpkin pie was called the inevitable Thanksgiving dish, So that's been.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Around for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Oh yeah, and if you're wondering why the last Thursday
of the month for this holiday. Hale thought that this
would give women, who were pretty much doing all of
the cooking at the time, time to prepare this huge
feast on top of the traditional weekly big Sunday meal.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
So yeah, so place it on a Thursday, and that way, ladies,
you have time to clean up your dishes and do
it again on Sunday.
Speaker 3 (31:56):
Yep, that's why it's on a Thursday. Huh.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
In eighteen seventy six, we have the first Thanksgiving Day
football game with Yale v.
Speaker 3 (32:06):
Princeton.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Each president after Lincoln has declared the national Day of
Thanksgiving along with what date it would fall on, and
typically it was the last Thursday of the month. During
President Franklin Roosevelt's time in office, so he specified that
Thanksgiving should be celebrated on the fourth Thursday, never on
the rare fifth Thursday of November, as opposed to President
(32:29):
Lincoln's last Thursday of the month, which could be the
fifth one. FDR did try to move Thanksgiving to the
third Thursday of the month in order to extend the
holiday shopping season.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
Oh that's what he was angling for.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, which which starts after Thanksgiving and boosts the economy
in nineteen forty one, but some states were not on
board and did not comply, and he and Congress moved
it to the fourth Thursday.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
In nineteen forty two. So one year later they're like, okay.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
They're like, oh, never mind, never mind.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
People are not happy with this.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Yeah, maybe not the last Thursday, but certainly not the third. Okay,
four fourth or compromise.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
The first Macy's Day Parade took place in nineteen twenty four.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And the Turkey timer popped up in the nineteen fifties
as the result of a serious brainstorm done by the
California Turkey Producer's Advisory Board.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
A serious brainstorm.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
Serious. Oh yeah, Well, they were worried that turkey was
being given a bad name due to people's poor cooking
of turkey on Thanksgiving, and so they it was like
a three day they locked themselves in a room and
we're all like, we need to solve this problem. How
can we let people know when their turkey is done?
And finally, the picture that I have in my head
(33:48):
is of this one guy like in an office chair,
spinning around, staring at the ceiling hopelessly and his eyes
fell upon a fire sprinkler, Oh yeah, in the ceiling,
and he was like, there's a little bit inside a
fire sprinkler that melts when it hits a certain temperature,
and that's how the water knows to release. That's how
(34:10):
the water is triggered to release. And he was like,
I can do that in a turkey timer and so yeah,
so it works by a little thing in their melts
when the turkey is at the right temperature. Hypothetically.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah, my most is not trusted.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Use a probe thermometer, y'all.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Dope. She is very suspicious.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
But I do love the story.
Speaker 3 (34:31):
I do.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That's a great story. As we touched on in our
Turkey episode, the first turkey was officially pardoned by President
George H. W. Bush in nineteen eighty nine. And if
you want kind of a funny, I'll say funny.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah, No, it's funny. Kristin. Kristen is hilarious.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Ristin Conger of Unlady. You like our past stuff Mom
Never Told You? Co host, I was a video producer
over at stuff I Never Told You, And we made
a video, a hearstory video all about this. If you
want to check it out. It's on YouTube. It definitely
focuses more on Sarah Josifa Hale and her eccentricities. Yes,
(35:09):
that's a good word. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
I love it. It's really it's really funny.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, And we should say on Thanksgiving, some indigenous people's
fast and observe a national day of morning. So I
think it's good to to keep all of this history
in mind. It does feel as though we've become very
divorced from what it once.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
Was, from from what like the reality of the situation
could have possibly been. And and yeah, and that that
syrupy story is it'll fine for kindergarteners. I'm not saying
that you should be like, well, right, timmy, don't scarred
me for life, but but yeah, no, it's it's it's
really important to keep in mind. And as it is
(35:55):
with all of the with all of the terrible things
we tell you about history on this show.
Speaker 3 (36:00):
Yes you're welcome.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
But as we've mentioned a little bit in this episode,
the United States is not the only country that celebrates Thanksgiving.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
And turkey is not the only thing that's consumed. That's right,
And we'll get to both of those things after we
get back from a quick break for a word. We're sponsor.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
So. A Gallup poll in this our year of twenty
eighteen found that about eight percent of Americans don't eat meat,
about five percent being vegetarian and three percent vegan. And
that is a smallish percentage, but it equals out to
over twenty six million people. So what are those folks
to do on a holiday built around turkey?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Oh? What are they to do?
Speaker 2 (36:52):
The kind of traditional answer at this point is tofurky
m hm. In nineteen ninety five, the first soki meal
was sold locally an organ It was a collaboration between
a tempa maker and a vegetarian catering company. The tempa
maker was one Seth Tibbett, who had founded the brand
Turtle Island Foods. And he started with an incubator, an incubator,
(37:15):
because that's how you make tempa. We did a whole
episode about it. It involves fungus. It's pretty rad, you know,
see that episode for more. But yeah, he made his
first incubator out of a discarded refrigerator that was heated
with strands of Christmas lights.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
My goodness.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
By this point he had moved on from that. But yeah,
the catering company Higher Taste had been making these two
order stuffed tofu roasts that were glazed with orange juice
and soy sauce. They were pretty popular, and Tibbitt to
go with this, mixed some wild rice and cranberry into
his tempa, stamped it into little drummat forms, and they
packaged the two together. Is this nice little frozen entree.
(37:53):
Tibbitt insisted on the name Tofurky over these strong objections
of everyone else involved. They were like, that's ridiculous. Can
we have a little bit of korum here? And he
was like, no, no, Tofurkey. In nineteen ninety seven, they
bought a recipe for wheat gluten and started mixing their
tofu with that, which which made for a much better
texture after freezing and reheating, because tofu onto itself goes
(38:15):
a little bit like spongy when it's been frozen and reheated. Yeah,
and meanwhile, folks were so entertained by the name that
the product was getting a lot of press and orders
started pouring in from all over the country. It was
a wild success. In twenty ten, a food co op
in Minneapolis publicly pardoned a tofurky of course, of course,
(38:37):
And yeah, I don't know. I don't know if y'all
listeners have ever had one. They're kind of rubbery, they don't,
you know, they don't really brown. Well, they roll around
in roasting pans maddeningly. But a writer for The New
Yorker Vegetarian by the name of Jonathan Kaufman said that
it's quote nonetheless a bit turkey like, and it's trusty, stodginess.
(39:01):
It's the thing that's on the holiday table because it's
supposed to be there.
Speaker 3 (39:07):
Oh, that's kind of wonderful. He was right about the name.
I guess.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I feel like I just have vastly different tastes than
almost everyone in my family. But I love turkey and
I never get to eat it. But they all act
like they'd be fine if it wasn't and I've been
determined to keep it, keep the tradition going. But that's
why we cook ham as well, because they would rather
have ham. But yeah, they definitely think it's just the
(39:36):
thing that's supposed to be there.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (39:38):
Yeah, that the whole ham thing is still mystifying to
me because beside my family that I grew up having
holidays with I was the Jewish side of my family,
and so we did not eat ham. Well, I mean,
my dad and my grandma and I all ate ham,
but at family holidays where we had some slightly more
pious observers, right right, we certainly wouldn't serve a ham.
(39:59):
And so the very idea, I'm like, I've gotten used
to the idea that people eat it for Christmas, but
I'm still mystified by its showing up on Thanksgiving tables.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
Yeah, I think it's just because some people don't really
dog turkey.
Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh I love a turkey.
Speaker 4 (40:13):
I do too.
Speaker 1 (40:14):
And for my brother that is a vegetarian, now, there's
just so much food anyway that he didn't.
Speaker 3 (40:21):
Ask for a tofurkey. Oh yeah, there's a lot.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
I mean there's some really interesting looking recipes for making
your own tofu roast or other meat alternative roast on online.
So you know, if you're not really into cooking and
you like to for I mean it, also, if you
like tofurky, go for it. Oh totally, don't let our
opinions sway. You like what you like, like would you like?
(40:45):
But if you're less than happy with it, there are
so many recipes out there for cool stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
So yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (40:51):
But now tofurkey side aside, it's time for.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
A word about Canada.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
Canada too has a Thanksgiving with a lot of the
same themes and a lot of the same foods. One
thing we should mention the indigenous peoples of Canada were
also doing something similar to a Thanksgiving feast long before
any Europeans showed up.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
The first known day of a European based thanks Saving
in Canada took place in fifteen seventy eight, after Martin
Frobischer's expedition came to a safe conclusion. Frobisher's fleet in
the present day Nunavat tribe were in attendance or not.
Another similarity multiple origin stories here. Another version goes that
(41:34):
in sixteen oh six, a meat heavy celebration in Port
Royal on November fourteenth, sixteen oh six, hosted by Samuel D. Champlin,
might have been the first European based Thanksgiving.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
The meal, a.
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Part of the Order of Good Cheer, brought together the
indigenous peoples of the region and the Europeans. The Order
of Good Cheer, by the way, was a dinner series
with the goal of preventing malnutrition and scurvy among colonists.
Oh an order of good cheer Dinner series.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah. Also note here that I either either of these stories.
Canadians beat us to the Thanksgiving punch by like a
good couple decades, which is interesting. Yeah go Canada, Yeah, Yeah,
go Canada.
Speaker 1 (42:17):
Another story goes settlers in Canada might not have survived
at all without the help of Mickmack, who taught them
how to ice fish and introduce them to a bear
with a lot of vitamin C in it. As a
thank you, the colonists invited the Micmac to their November
fourteenth celebration with food, muskets, and perhaps the first play
ever performed in North America.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
They had to do Neptune.
Speaker 1 (42:40):
Basically, it was the story of the indigenous people swearing
fealty to the newly arrived explorers after these newcomers had
received congrats from the god Neptune. These explorers also bought
smallpox with them and conflict and war. An organization called
Canada first started pushing for a white Protestant Canada in
(43:01):
the eighteen sixties, and Thanksgiving was a part of that push.
And yeah, remember Thanksgiving used to be much more religious.
The national Thanksgiving Day was declared to be on November
sixth by Parliament in eighteen seventy nine, and it's moved
a few times, but in nineteen fifty seven it was
decreed to fall on the second Monday in October.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
And it is an optional holiday in Atlantic Canada and
like not really a big deal at all in Quebec,
where it is known, by the way, not as Thanksgiving
but as the help me with the sanny axion DeRoss.
Speaker 4 (43:34):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (43:34):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
A few other cultural differences because there's no holiday to
buffer Halloween and Christmas. Because this happens in early October,
some Canadians start putting up Christmas decorations the day after Halloween.
Speaker 3 (43:49):
My stomach churns at that.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Also, another Thanksgiving tradition in the United States is Black Friday,
the shopping day after Thanksgiving. And although it started in
the United States, of course, because you know, Canadians don't
have the next day off, it's being picked up in
Canada now too.
Speaker 3 (44:05):
Black Friday.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
Black Friday as in after the US Thanksgiving, I think.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
So yeah, huh yeah. In order to prevent Canadians who
live near the border like just going over to the
US for sales. They're like to keep the money in Canada. Okay,
we'll have sales too.
Speaker 3 (44:22):
Okay, sure.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
My mom and I I have a history of Black
Friday shopping and it has been fascinating to see it,
the rise and fall of it, because now it's kind
of wonderful in my opinion, because there's nobody really there.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
Oh yeah, oh man, people.
Speaker 1 (44:39):
Come in around like one or two, which is when
the doorbusters are over. So I don't understand why, but
most people are doing their shopping online.
Speaker 3 (44:48):
I imagine.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, well, it got to be such a terrible thing,
oh for so long. But yeah, Oh. I had a
friend one time, one family that I was spending a
lot of Thanksgivings with, the husband would stay up all night, yeah,
to get there so early and do the thing. And
I was just like, Yeah, that is a dedication and
(45:11):
a tolerance for other human people that I do not possess.
Speaker 1 (45:16):
I worked on Black Friday for a while, so I've
seen some things. I've seen some things.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Man, You've got like a lot of Thanksgiving scars.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
But I love it. And this brings us to the
end of this episode.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
For a little peek behind the curtain because we're not
going to do listener mail. We're actually recording this on Halloween. Yeah,
because I'm about to I'm going on at vacation for
a little bit and then we're going to be in
New Orleans and in New York. It feels like time
traveling in a strange way. It does, it does.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I Also, I don't think we've ever been this far
ahead in recording the show. It feels real strange.
Speaker 3 (45:58):
And I don't like it. I know, like, should I
be getting ready for Thanksgiving? It's Halloween.
Speaker 1 (46:04):
Also, in case anyone's worried, I found the butterfinger today,
so I got off bart of my candies.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
We won't be destroyed.
Speaker 2 (46:11):
Congratulations, Thank you. I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (46:15):
But we really hope that you enjoy your Thanksgiving, if
you celebrate it, whatever you happen to be celebrating.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Yeah, we hope that whether or not you're celebrating, that
you have lots of things to be thankful for, and
that you're eating something great.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yes, yes, We're all about that.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
Or if you are choosing to take a day of fast,
that tomorrow you will eat something great.
Speaker 4 (46:41):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
And that brings us to the end of this classic episode.
We hope that you enjoyed it as much as we
enjoyed bringing it back. We hope that you are all
doing well whatever.
Speaker 3 (46:55):
It is you're doing, absolutely because we do appreciate you
so much.
Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yes, yes, and we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 3 (47:04):
We would, and you can contact us in a couple
of ways.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
You can email us at Hello, atsavorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (47:10):
We're also on social media. We are at this very
current moment on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod,
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my Heart Radio,
you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to
our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
(47:32):
are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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