Savor Says ‘Manchego Cheese!’

This tangy Spanish sheep’s milk cheese is thousands of years in the making. Anney and Lauren dig into the history of Manchego.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Rees and I'm Lauren voc Obam, and today
we have an episode for you about manchego cheese, yes,
which is gonna be fun because I was telling Lauren
beforehand for some reason, I've always put an extra in
in the pronunciation of menche go. So I'm gonna do

(00:32):
my absolute best to not make this a nightmare for
editor producer Andrew. But it really stuck. I've been practicing.
I practiced before this, I practiced some last night, and
I still catch myself doing I don't know why. I
you know, there are just some words that I mean,

(00:53):
good goodness knows um that as a human who speaks
into microphones for a living, there's like no better way
to find out that you mispronounce everything. Yes, absolutely true,
even stuff that you really think you have a handle on,
and you just go ahead and say it like a
fool and uh And then immediately Twitter is like, did

(01:16):
you know you're terrible? Yes, absolutely true, Lauren. Uh, Well,
we're going to go through this together. Yeah, yeah, I
believe in you. It's and this is this is a
safe space. We're going to be okay. Thank you. Thank you.

(01:36):
I do love a good man. I only discovered these cheeses,
this cheese barely recently, like within the past six years.
I'd probably had it before then, but like I'd only
purposefully sought it out knew what it was within the past.
I would say six years um, and I went through

(01:59):
a real thing is a couple of years ago, putting
it on everything. It's really good. I I love a
mentego like. I actually happened to go to the grocery
store yesterday after after we picked this topic, and I
was like, Okay, yeah, this seems to happen. I definitely

(02:23):
like ate some like thirty minutes ago, so good and ready,
Yes it is. It's delicious. Funnily enough, I was researching
this last night, and last night I also happened to
be watching the Batman okay you Batman movie, and one

(02:45):
of the first things that came up when I searched
Manchego cheese was this review of the Batman um which
I hope is not some weird my TV is listening
to me because I tried to turn all of that off.
But any way, it was a review that said something
along the lines of Robert Pattison can cut a slice

(03:07):
of menche Go cheese on his jaw, and I was
kind of impressed, but it kept coming up. Okay, sure,
it's a nice jaw line, it's a you know, it
is a firm jawline, and it is It's not the
first device I would attempt to shred cheese on, but no,

(03:31):
and nor is it the first cheese I would think of.
But that's what came up in this review, So I
love it. Good terms made me laugh. Uh. You can
see our many past episodes we've done on different cheeses,

(03:54):
several at this point, and I would say yogurt too,
is pretty key in this one. Sure. Yeah. Uh, those those,
many of those go further into the science of cheesemaking
than I'm going to go into today, Yes, because you know,
we've sort of done it a lot. Yeah, at this point,

(04:17):
but we'll still touch on on those points for sure.
But I guess this brings us to our question manchego
cheese what is it? Well? Uh, Manchego is a type
of cheese traditionally made in Spain with sheep's milk that

(04:39):
is pressed and aged until it's anywhere from semisoft and
creamy to firm and like buttery crumbly. Uh. It has
this sort of sweet and sour tang to it that
that balances the grassy and barney and even smoky flavors
of the sheep's milk. And it gets more sort caramelly

(05:01):
and nutty as it ages, and I I couldn't think
of of of I didn't have like a synesthesia too
to go along with this one. And I feel like
I'm I feel like I'm falling down, I'm derelict in
my duty here. But I'm like it's delicious. It's like
it's delicious. Yeah, I think that's great. It is. It's

(05:25):
like it's delicious and it's delicious and like a lot
of different ways. It's very adaptable. It is. It's a
for for something that can be um. It's something that's
it's it's almost like a little bit like surprisingly strongly flavored,
surprisingly strongly flavored. I like that. I like that, and

(05:47):
like especially especially the more aged ones, which are usually
what you're going to get in the US. UM are Yeah.
Like like you you take a bite and you're like, oh,
it's cheese, and then you're like whoa, There's like a
lot going on in this cheese. It's got a lot
going on, a lot going on. Uh. Manchego, like other
products we've talked about, is a protected denomination of origin,

(06:10):
which means that, except in a few cases, in order
to call something manchego, you have to make it in
a particular area and in particular ways. Uh. That area
is Castilla la Mancha, which is a region in central Spain,
like southeast of Madrid. It's made with milk from a
breed of sheep called manchega um and small producers tend

(06:33):
to make it with raw milk, at which point it
can be labeled artisan cheese. Larger producers are more likely
to pasteurize the milk. It apparently takes less sheep's milk
to produce cheese than other types of milk because sheep's
milk is so nutritionally dense, like half of what you
would use for a cow's milk cheese. Oh, I know, right,

(06:54):
I didn't know that. Yeah. Uh. Manchego is made in
these like smallish tallish wheels that tend to taper a
little bit at the top. There about eight inches in
diameter maybe five and a half inches high. That's up
to two by fourteen centimeters and can weigh up to
about nine pounds or four kilos. They have a rind

(07:16):
that is patterned with these braids like zig zags on
the sides because of the of the woven grass molds
that they're packed in um, and they have decorative wheat
ear patterns on the top and bottom. The rind might
be a dark brown to black or reddish orange or
golden blonde. The color might come from natural molds that

(07:36):
grow as they age, or from a rubbing of olive
oil or from a brushing of wax. The cheese inside
will be cream white on its young and gets more
golden as it ages. Um. The wheels may be aged
in natural caves in the area I love a natural
cheese cave. And yes, La Mancha is the region that
Servantes wrote about in Don quixote Um, and there is

(07:58):
an image of Quixote on his horse and uh Sancho
on his donkey, adorning the label of authentic Mentego cheese um.
You are again most likely to find the more aged
versions outside of Spain, but especially around the Lamenta region.
You can find five grades of Menchego fresco, which is
aged up to two weeks semi corrado which is aged

(08:21):
over two months, Colorado which is aged over three months, um,
Viejo which has aged over six months, and in Yejo
which is aged over nine months UM. And earlier I
said about that protected denomination of origin, that that's for
except in a few cases, and by a few cases,

(08:43):
I mean one case that I know of, and that
case is Mexican mantego, which is a more mild cheese
that's made from cow's milk. It's not as regulated um
and can be found for lower prices. Yes, and we
will be talked about that a little bit more. Yeah, Yeah,
this is a whole situation and h and yeah, we've

(09:06):
got we've got some more notes on it to come, Yes,
we do. But in the meantime, what about the nutrition.
Cheese is a nutritionally dense food, so you know, watch
your watch your serving sizes. But it also has a
lot of great micro nutrients, a good good source of
protein and fats, so it'll help fill you up and

(09:27):
keep going. Mm hmm. That's okay. I'm very excited to
get my hands on some chigo. We do have some
numbers for you. According to a few sources, manchego cheese
is the most popular Spanish cheese and makes up one

(09:48):
third of Spain's traditional cheese production. Uh thirty five million
pounds that's uh fifteen million million kilos were sold globally
as of with the most exports coming to the United States,
about a third of total production UM. And these were
apparently being produced by just forty seven cheesemakers. WHOA yeah, okay.

(10:17):
The Foundation for Manchego Cheese reported in twenty twelve that
La Mancha exported five point nine million kilos of this cheese, which,
by the way, I love that this foundation exists, all right, Yes, um,
that's about thirteen million pounds UM. At the time, America
was responsible for almost half of total exports UM. The
market here had been growing really rapidly at the time,

(10:40):
and now the market is growing globally UM. As of twelve,
there were around eight hundred Manchega sheep farms in the region.
Fifth generation dairy Finka like Grand produces about sixty five
wheels of Manchego cheese a day and they've been operating
since at least eight yeah. Uh. And there is a

(11:05):
Manchego Cheese museum in Toledo. I found two, but I
think the one in Toledo is the one most people
are talking about. If anyone's ever been, you've got Apparently
there's a tasting involved. Oh I want to go. Oh

(11:27):
we need to, we need to travel. I need to.
We do I miss it? I miss it? Uh. Well,
in the meantime, before we can do that, we do
have a lot of history for you. We do, we do. Um.
But before we get into that, we're going to get
into a quick break for a word from our sponsors.

(11:55):
We're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you again. See
our Path Cheese episodes. But cheese is quite old and
has a generally accepted origin story that it was discovered
on accident, probably around the same time, in multiple places. Yep, yep, yeah,

(12:15):
there you go. Um. But okay, Manchego evidence uncovered by
archaeologists suggests that folks have been making cheese going back
to the Bronze Age in the La Mancha region. Yeah,
like like three thousand to four thousand BC, right, Yeah,
so a long time. These early cheesemakers used sheep's milk

(12:39):
to make their products, and the sheep are native to
that area and are almost certainly the ancestors of the
Manchego sheep of today, the producers would press the curds
into baskets made of esparto grass. So this cheese is
the results of thousands of years of cheesemakers and sheep,
which is really cool about it. Yeah. By the way,

(13:03):
a sparko grass is the same grass that's traditionally used
in esper drill shoes, you know, the the wedges that
have um the grass along the like woven little braids
of uh huh okay. And yes. Sometime during the sixteen hundreds,

(13:23):
manchego was mentioned in Miguel de Savant's work Don Quixote
that came up in like every source. I. Don Quixote
is um, like one of the most translated books worldwide. Um,
it's definitely foundational in our concept of of of the novel.
And uh yeah, people people like it. And that's where

(13:46):
most people know La mancha from, so right, yes, uh
And and the cheese was delicious in this book. Uh.
When the Spanish arrived in Mexico around the fifteen hundreds,
they brought their cheese making recipes and traditions with them.
Through this we see the development of Mexican manchego cheese

(14:09):
made with cow's milk. One of The first known written
recipes of a La Mancha style cheese out of Mexico
was published in five The name Manchego wasn't applied until
much later. So we'll return to this whole thing. Yes, yes, yes, um.
One huge blow to Spain's manchego cheese industry was the

(14:33):
Spanish Civil War and the dictator that overthrew the government
and came into power in ninety six, Francisco Franco, who
controlled the country until his death in nineteen Franco wanted
to modernize Spain, and as a part of that, he
massively changed the course of wine and cheese production in

(14:55):
that country. He destroyed vineyards, especially those producing white wines.
He pushed for mass production of low quality red wine.
He didn't drink and thought wine should only be used
for sacramental purposes, hence the destruction of of white wine. UM.
And he essentially outlawed artisanal cheese by making illegal for

(15:15):
there to be milk production under ten thousand liters a day,
which meant small dairies and cheesemakers had to sell their
milk to large companies, yes, essentially making it illegal. UM.
The artisanal cheese affected included traditionally made manchego. During this time,

(15:36):
eighty traditional Spanish cheeses became endangered or went extinct through
the hard work and dedication of Spanish cheesemakers, many of
whom were exiled during Franco's rule. Some of these cheeses
have been recovered or are in the process of being recovered,
so that's good to hear. However, the story was a

(15:59):
bit different for manchego cheese. According to some sources, it
was an open secret that during this time almost thirty
of milk production was on the Spanish black market. The
numbers suggest that farmers were consuming five hundred liters of
milk a day, milk that was often used to make

(16:20):
black market cheese that could be used to barter with
an estimated of dairy milk production went to making black
market cheese. Producers would hold open air markets in the
early morning before the sun was out to avoid inspectors
who would shut them down or worse, they'd sell their
illegal cheese from five am to seven am, and during

(16:42):
that time, and estimated four to five thousand kilos of
cheese was exchanged. Uh yeah. Dairies of all sizes didn't
become legal in Spain again until within ten years of that,
Spain went from zero to one thousands small dairies, in
part because some of these small dairies had never actually

(17:04):
stopped produce. Yeah. That We'll have to come back to
that later, because I had not heard of that, and
uh yeah, no, I was not aware that that was
one of the things that Franco was up to. And
that is that is wild? Yeah yeah, just that, Like

(17:27):
there were a lot of in depth essays that I
ran across about the kind of cultural defiance of no,
we're going to keep making this cheese and the fact
that that large amount was going to the black markets,
like this is a cultural defiance. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh well, if we look at the United States, manchego

(17:51):
cheese became popular in the US for a couple of reasons.
In the early days, sheep's milk and the sheep's milk
cheeses they sheeps won't just wasn't that common in the US.
Um manchego, with its approachability, uh and variability in terms
of what you could pair it with, readily filled the space.
At the time. The available sheep's milk cheeses in the

(18:14):
U s were things like Italian pecorino romano cheese at
a stronger saltier flavor, and long age cheeses that went
a long way when sprinkled on top of dishes like pasta,
Like you just didn't need that much of it. Yeah,
so therefore not so great for snacking purposes. Um, manchego
could be eaten as a snack, as a dessert cheese,

(18:36):
just in numerous ways. It really lends itself to a
lot of situations. And so it caught on here barely quickly.
Manchego cheese received its Spanish designation of origin in n
four and was recognized by the EU in And here
we come to a bunch of trade. Do you yes?

(18:58):
So a new trade deal between the EU and Mexico
that went into effect in eighteen did not grant Spain
the exclusive right for the use of manchego. So Mexican
manchego cheese with cow's milk made with cow's milk was
not impacted. And right like, like we said earlier, this

(19:19):
has been a whole thing, Like the question of whether
Mexico could keep calling their cheese manchego actually slowed down
that entire trade deal. Um, the deal was this like
major update to the earlier year two thousand trade deal
between the European Union and Mexico, and Mexico was like

(19:40):
really into this trade deal because at the time there
were all of these uncertainties surrounding NAFTA, and Mexico was
kind of going like, ah, like should we like pull
away from depending so much on the United States for stuff? Um?
But but the name of this cheese was a stick
point for both sides. Um. Like. I was reading this

(20:06):
article that The Guardian published about it, and they were
quoting this Mexican government official who is basically like like,
it's y'all's conquistadors, uh fault that our cheese is named Manchego. Ah, Like,
you gave it that name. We're not trying to trick anyone,
it's your fault, uh. And Spanish official officials were like, well,

(20:34):
but you are tricking people seriously. I'm like, there was drama. Wow,
that's some some sibling nonsense. I'm That's what I'm relating
to personally. I you know, I am I I see
I see the farmers, the Spanish farmers, who are you know,

(20:56):
trying to protect their product um, and the you know,
many layers of people making money off of that uh
and I you know, also the Spanish concustators were terrible,
so like, well, yep, I can see both sides. Oh well,
there's another deal we got to talk about, okay. In

(21:19):
response to an uptick of falsely labeled Manchego cheese being
exported to China, the EU and China signed a deal
in that went to effect in one that named one
hundred products for recognition and protection under geographical indications, including
Manchego cheese. This was also a whole thing. Yeah yeah. Meanwhile,

(21:42):
apparently over the past couple of decades um as with
as with many agricultural situations, that the number of farms
raising mantega sheep has been decreasing um as younger generations
have been seeking out urban lifestyles rather than maybe continuing
the family tradition. Um and this has driven up prices
of sheep's milk, which has driven up prices for the cheese.

(22:05):
But it is also made it harder for small cheesemakers
to stay in business in the face of larger production
companies being able to buy up that milk. Um And
as a result, the Spanish government has been creating like
campaigns and incentives to get people back into shepherding as
a job in lifestyle. Oh h oh gosh. I yeah,

(22:31):
I love this cheese so very much, and I the
history was fascinating and I really listeners would love if
you have any recipes or uses for it, because now, yeah,
I'm I'm like, I've got to I've got to get some. Yeah, definitely.

(22:52):
I don't think with the with the cheese like that.
I usually just eat it straight. I don't think it
ever manages to take it into a recipe. I had
a really good zucchini salte. Zucchini manchego recipe sounds simple. Yeah,

(23:15):
And it's springtime now, so that sounds perfect. M wow.
I think that's what we have to say about Manchego
for now. It is. We do have some listener to
mail for you, but first we've got one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back.

(23:40):
Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listeners.
I'm trying to do a sound of music springtime. Oh yeah,
all right, yes, yes, it is spring. Spring is sprung

(24:00):
here in Atlanta, and the pollen is out the dog woods,
Oh my goodness, they're doing their things, they certainly are.
And the allergies are. Oh yeah. If I sound a
little bit stuffy today, it's because I am. Yeah. Yeah,
So it's a thing. It's a whole thing, but I do.

(24:21):
I love springing up, but this is a part of
it's a part of it. Yeah. I was I was
afraid that you were going to go for like a
like a Man of La Mancha like musical thing, and
I was unprepared to try to do that. So I'm
kind of glad it was this. Okay. Yeah, Well, I mean, unfortunately,

(24:43):
I've watched well, I don't know unfortunately, but I've watched
venom Let there Be Carnage several times now. It's a
really good don Kyote reference in its Okay, So I
almost went that way, but I thought it would be
way too confusing for everyone. No, that's I okay, Now

(25:05):
I love this. I that is um cool. Yeah. Yeah, man,
that's like the second time in two episodes that you've
gotten like a genuine, like weird laugh out of me
in the middle of an episode. So good job. Yeah,
I'd take it as a win. Venom Let there Be
Carnage is pretty That's a pretty solid way to get

(25:27):
that out of somebody. Yeah, partially the name is great anyway, Okay,
also don kyote? Why not? Sure? Sure they went for it?
They certainly did, all right? Joe wrote the episode on

(25:51):
mangoes made me squeal and flail. Mangoes are my absolute
favorite fruits. We're very proud of our mangoes in the Philippines,
and my family is always on the hunt her Philippines
mangoes and juices, dried mangoes, ice cream, et cetera. My
dad's personal mission is to find the best mango juice.
My fondest memory of mangoes comes from a visit to

(26:12):
the Philippines when I was still in elementary school. My
grandmother asked me what I wanted for dinner, and after
a moment's contemplation, I said, mangoes, just mangoes. What she
really thought of that request, I'll never know, but she
cut and sliced as many mangoes as I could eat,
which turned out to be five or six. If that's

(26:32):
not love, I don't know what I had. That is glorious.
That's so sweet. I love that. Yeah, And that brought
back the memory of um. I was dating a Filipino
guy one time, and this was before before I had

(26:53):
discovered um the many amazing international supermarkets around Atlanta and
so like or or maybe before um they had started
carrying Filipino goods and um, so like I would just
have him ship me all of this dried mango like
all the time. I was like, no, it needs I

(27:14):
need more. This is importance to my lifestyle. You have
created a monster. Like You're right. Dried mango so amazing. Uh.
Mango juice good, mango juice excellent. Oh yeah. And also

(27:38):
I just love the love the sweetness of your grandmother
being like like, all right, that's what's up. Sure, I
did this. My mom always brings us up. But one
time I came home from school and I have like
not a great day, and she was trying to cheer
me up, and I said, I just want pasta. I
want like ten different types of pasta. And I went
to the store and we bought like different dice of

(28:00):
pasta and we made them and it was just so sweet. Yeah,
we had like a little candle it pasta dinner. I
was seventh grade. It was very cute. Yeah, it's really cool.
Yeah we still remember it very fondly. So I love

(28:20):
I love this. Yeah. Um uh. Andrea wrote growing up
in a Jewish home, our favorite warm and fuzzy dish
was noodle coogle um a k A. Noodle pudding. My
mother made it every time I came home. Now that
my kids have left the house, I make it every
and I mean every time they come home, except pass Over,

(28:41):
of course. What is it about noodle coogle? My family
is from Poland and Russia, the center of unchewable meat
and potatoes and onions. That's it. Where do noodles come from?
Google comes from a Yiddish word meaning round. Um. It's
the quintessential dish found in all cultures. Take leftovers, put
it in a round pa and and bake until the
family has no idea that they have seen this food

(29:03):
before twenty century. Noodle coggle was found on the back
of the Manischevit's egg noodle bag. I've attached the copy
that I made from my mother's house. Uh. Note the
asterix double the recipe. I have since tripled and quadrupled
the recipe. I always use a ParvE non dairy margarine
so that it can be served immediately after dinner or
sometimes before during or as soon as each kid arrived home.

(29:28):
Mine is simple noodles, eggs, margarine, sugar, and cinnamon. I
shudder to think of the noodle coggle being baked today.
Most people add cheese or some sort of dairy product.
Most Jews do not abide by the Kosher traditions. The
noodle package has some sort of awful pasta prima vera recipe,
but I'm a traditionalist. If I'm going to make my

(29:49):
mother's and my grandmother's coggle, I am going to use
the original recipe. If you have any questions about this
or any other Jewish food topic, please call her right.
I would be happy to share My experience. Is happy
passover slush Easter slush Ramadan to all. Oh, I love
this goodness I we we have like okay uh. I

(30:16):
have occasionally thought about coogle as a topic, and it's
so many things, and I'm just I always get intimidated
and back down. Mm hmm. But a good coggle, oh
my goodness. My um, my grandmother and a great aunt
um I just called her an aunt um would always

(30:38):
make a kind with raisins in it. Um. And so
that's that's the kind that I kind of crave when
I crave a good sweet needle coggle. But oh, I'm
so curious because my family was big on these egg noodles,
my family being a non Jewish, fewer. Right. Uh So

(31:00):
I feel like I'm in the you know, blasphemous area
of this. But I loved I loved these pastas growing up. Um,
but I haven't had a sweet one. I have not
had one that Andrea describes here. So I'm very I
would like to learn more. I've I've also intended to

(31:21):
make one any number of times, and and then I
don't know why I haven't. I don't know why I haven't. Okay, alright,
new project. Yes, I love a new project, especially if
it's on you and I just get to enjoy the benefits. Yeah.
Maybe maybe I'll make one, um, and I'll bring it

(31:41):
to like D and D next time. Yes, we've got
to spread out all these foods, even meaning to try
our sell out. We really do. We cannot just have.
It is getting to the point where it is clear
that this cannot be a single feast day, because that
would be not far. Yes, we would regret everything, um,

(32:04):
which was perfect for the Star Wars Holiday special, which
I'm still going to make you watch during this I'm
so excited I am too. It's gonna be great, um
well in the meantime, Thanks to both of these listeners
for writing to us. If you would like to write
to us, you can or email us hello at saber
pod dot com, and we're also on social media. You

(32:26):
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pod and we do hope to hear from you. Sabor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
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Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way.