September 23, 2020 • 34 mins
This traditional lager was the most popular beer at Munich’s Oktoberfest for a century. Anney and Lauren dip into the bottom-fermenting science and barmy history of märzen and other Oktoberfest beers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I HOW Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about october Fest beer and specifically the classic styles
or Marsin or Miasen. I heard like Marsin Marson. Okay, well, okay,
(00:29):
we never really got to the bottom of it. I
never took German. Fogelbaum is pretty much all that I know. Well,
I did take German, four years of it, and I
worked in a German office for a whole semester, and
so I have no excuse. As per usual, I will say, surprisingly,
(00:53):
beer didn't come up that much in my office. You know,
it did come up a lot fries, French fries. We'll
see you had priorities, and that's fine. I couldn't tell
you how to say that either, though it suit mere live.
I remember, sorry because I apologized a lot of bad pronunciation.
(01:15):
Uh but yeah, yeah, I suppose the time is right.
This was a Lauren Lauren's suggestion. I actually really don't
know much about this beer. I've never really heard that
name before. I've heard like october Fest beers, but Malsden
or Marson, however you pronounce it I had not really
heard of Uh, yeah, I don't think. I don't think
(01:38):
that I was very aware of it. I think that
I've consumed a certain amount of it. Um during october
Fest season around around town. Here in Atlanta, we're very
lucky to have a number of beer bars and local
breweries that do some super interesting stuff. Um. And I
was thinking about it because one new one called Halfway
(02:00):
Crooks just released this entire october Fest lineup and they're
serving all of this delicious looking Bavarian food and I
really want to go over there. Um. So this is
this is why I was thinking about it. See, I'd
almost totally forgotten about it, since time is essentially meaningless
these days. But I did, um, I did. When I
(02:24):
was in my youth, I went to many a bad
october Fest at one Helen, Georgia. Yeah, such a shall
we say, very interesting kind of German Dutch themed town. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
My dad was a professor at the local college, so
(02:44):
all these people would come up and ask me questions
about how to pass this class, and then it would
inevitably get back to my dad that I was out
drinking late or whatever. It was small tone. Yeah, I
don't well, they were fun, but I'm sure they weren't
very uh authentic october Fest celebration. Oh yeah, I somehow
(03:12):
doubted as well, knowing, you know, the little bit or
or having spent a little bit of time that I
have in Helen Um. But I'm sure it was enthusiastic,
and that's that's part of what counts. Yes, Yes, enthusiasm
was there for sure. Um. So we have done a
few episodes on beer types of beer. We've done sour beers.
Unless I'm mistaken, we did pills and r It's quite possible.
(03:35):
I don't think we did, did we. I think it's
just come up in so many because it really changed
the whole beer landscape that I just feel like we have. Yeah,
we definitely talked about it in Stouts and Porters. Oh
U p a s. We did think that's what you're
thinking of, right, yet I knew there was another one
(03:57):
in there. Um and Yeah. I also wanted to announce
that if you're looking for something to watch on Netflix, uh,
their Halloween lineup includes a new film called october Fest,
Beer and Blood. That's an option. I can't tell you
more than that. I feel like, like everything that you
(04:20):
need to know, it says right there on the tent,
I agree, and the thumbnail image gives me a pretty
big clue that it's tourists gone wrong. Sure, but you know,
I don't know. And as always with these alcohol episodes,
drink responsibly, yes, yes, always yes. But okay, that brings
(04:45):
us to our question. Mm hmm october Fest beers in Marson,
what are they? Well? Uh, okay these days as October
Fast or mouse un might mean I'm just gonna say
mars And like an American, y'all, I'm sure I'm pronouncing
(05:07):
it wrong anyway, So I'm just gonna go with mars And. Um. Yeah,
it might mean a variety of things, depending on the
brewer who's making it and their their interpretation of the style.
But um, the essence perhaps of mars And is that
it's a It's a pale lagger um amber to golden
in color, rich with toasty malt flavors, a little bit
creamy in the mouth feel, but pretty crisp lighting alcohol
(05:28):
around five to six a b v, maybe up to
six point five. Um. That's alcohol bi volume, by the way. Um,
And if I may get a little bit poetical about
this style, um, it should remind you of of fall
leaves and in the weather turning. Oh that is a
little poetical, and I love it. I do have a
(05:52):
tradition on I like to get a summer beer and
a fall beer. I have I would say goodbye to
summer and then hello to fall. So I get what
you're saying. Yeah, yeah, just just just crisp and and
sort of the color of fall leaves. UM And for
a long time, UM the mars and was synonymous with
(06:12):
october Fest in Germany, so the style is sometimes called
october Fest. However, the way that we make october Fest
here in America, it's sort of like a time capsule um,
like a window to what the style was in Germany
around the turn of the twentieth century. Um, a little
sweet and biscuity, a little bit spicy from hops um
(06:33):
amber in color. But but the styles of beers brewed
for october Fest continued developing over in Germany. And so
these days and october Fest beer enjoyed there is going
to be golden and cleaner. UM, still a little bit sweet,
more bready than biscuity, which I know is like a
really in the weeds beer nerd kind of distinction. But
(06:53):
but I guess, I guess bretty is a little bit
like fresher, almost like the smell of fresh baked bread,
whereas biscuity is a little bit toastier and and maybe
a little bit heavier. Mm hmm. I feel like it's
something that I couldn't really described very well, but I
(07:14):
can just feel it. I know what youah, Yeah, it's yeah,
it's that biscuit feeling. Yes, yes, we in the South
absolutely know about that. Um. But so so this um,
this this more golden, cleaner bready style that was developed
(07:35):
in Germany. Um. This style is now sometimes called fest
beer or vissn, which means meadow and refers to the
fields where october Fest takes place. And yeah, so that's
going to be the dominant style of october Fest in Germany,
whereas ours is the mars in Um. But okay, I
(07:56):
just threw like a lot of words at y'all, um,
and my cats savas throwing some words at me. Goodness,
little buddy. We'll see if about this as well. So
so yes, um. Octoberfest it is an annual autumn festival
(08:18):
that is held in Munich, Germany, UM, which is an
area known for its breweries, so so part of the
festivities have always included local beers, and it also includes
celebrations of the local folk culture of Bavaria with a
music and dance and puppetry and costumes, parades, food games,
shooting displays, and rides. Yes, like one that is apparently
(08:42):
called the Pendulum of Chaos. No, I'm shocked that this
is not a thing that you personally designed for us
in Dungeons and Dragons, but shocked as well. Apparently I
had to read up on this after Annie just entered
a note in the outline that said the Pendulum of Chaos. Yeah,
(09:04):
no explanation, no explanation. I was like, what pendulum and
what chaos? But yeah, this is a ride that was
new as and is apparently a swing and sling shot
ride with two cabins fitting eight passengers each, which can
both go in all possible directions according to the Telegraph.
(09:27):
So I'm like, is this a wankavad or what's happening?
I don't understand. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. M hm. Also,
I feel like beer plus of chaos. I mean, that's
part of the chaos element that you're introducing. It works
on us. Yeah it does. But anyway, we're a food show.
(09:53):
The beer um okay, so so so before we get
into these specific styles of beer, very brief beer overview.
But beer is what you get when you make a
thin soup out of grains and then encourage yeasts to
eat the sugars in that soup and poop carbon dioxide,
bubbles and alcohol and flavor yeast food. And now I
(10:18):
said that a marsin is a lagger, and and that
refers to the type of yeast that's used to brew it.
Laggers are made with with yeasts that thrive at relatively
cool temperatures about forty to fifty fahrenheit or five to
ten celsius um. These are sometimes called bottom fermenting yeasts
because because they easily sink to the bottom of the
fermenting vessel and were traditionally collected from the bottom when
(10:42):
making the next batch of beer. The yeasts that make
ales in comparison thrive at warmer temperatures, like a twenty
fahrenheit or fifteen celsius warmer um, and those are top fermenting,
meaning that they kick up more foam at the top
of the vessel while they're doing that fermentation and are
then collected from the top when they're done now in
(11:05):
a lagger um. Those lower temperatures mean that the fermentation
process happens more slowly and the resulting beers really benefit
from being aged a little bit like a few months
at least um in cool conditions, and this process is
known as loggering um. That the yeasts used our varieties
of a species called sacramics pastorianis Um in honor of
(11:27):
Louis Pasteur's contributions to brewing um, including his early recognition
the top dwelling and bottom dwelling yeasts were inherently distinct. Oh,
I have a quick like related note that I want
to share. Um. So, my mom's birthday was the weekend,
and I meant to text you this, Lauren, but I
thought this might be too weird to text to send
(11:48):
to a friend and co worker on the weekend. Okay,
she said what she wanted for her birthday was a
documentary on Louis Pasteur, was about one of the sweetest things.
Oh man, so great, this is where I good. Bro,
(12:11):
that's amazing. Did you find her one? No, I'm I'm
looking for it. But yeah, that's what she You know,
I was just imagining she loves guarding something with that
or I don't know. I was never in my wildest dreams,
and I think she was going to say that was
a very past story. That's great, that is that is
(12:34):
so sweet? Oh no, all right, Well, if anyone has
a good one, please right in. Yes, yes, please, my
mom is your my mom's only hope? Yeah, okay, okay, okay,
but but but loggers yeah so um. So the flavors
and colors that you get in any given logger once
it's finished are going to depend heavily on the ingredients
(12:57):
that you put into it, your your malts, your hops. Um.
But a unifying trait tends to be a crisp, clean
taste because a those yeasts have had a little bit
longer to eat the sugars in the grain soup. Um
and be because logger yeasts don't produce as many um,
floral or fruity flavors as ale yeasts do. UM. So
(13:21):
therefore logger yeasts let the flavors of the malts really shine. Um.
And that grain soup, by the way that it's it's
called wart um. Don't go to your local brewer and say, hey,
this podcast, or Lauren vogel Baum told me to call
it grain soup or I mean do I guess I
can't stop you now that I put that out into
the universe. But it's how it goes. Oh jeez, oh, brewers,
(13:46):
I'm so sorry, are you though? Um? But but but
mars in in particular, Okay, So those malts in marsin
um Okay. Backing up from that, a malt is a
grain that's been germinated and then dried, and the germination
makes the sugars and the grains more accessible to your
(14:08):
yeasts and how you dry them or kiln them as
it's called. Um, we'll give you a range of flavors
and colors in your final beer. Pale beers use very
lightly killed malts, and darker beers use malts that have
been a toasted creating caramelization and or roasted creating the
mayard reaction. And mars in is is usually going to
(14:31):
be a blend of a few different styles of traditional malt.
Um Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich, named for the cities where
they were developed. Um Pilsner is a very light malt,
Munich is caramelized, and Vienna is roasted so how much
of each you use will depend on what you want
the final product to be like. And hops. Hops are
(14:54):
added to beer partially because they helped control the growth
of unwanted microbes um, and sometimes to add their own
strong flavors like in an I p A. And sometimes
more to just balance the sweetness of the malts with
a touch of bitterness and um. And that ladder flavor
gig is the gig in Mars and and other laggers
like the Pilsner. Because yeah, you shouldn't even really notice
(15:18):
that the hops are there in the final product. M
m I guess that's true. M hmm. All right, Well
what about the nutrition? Drink responsibly? Yeah, um, I will
say in general, um, the lower the A b V
(15:39):
or alcohol BI volume, um, the fewer calories of beer
typically will have UM. So that puts Mars in in
like the load amid range calorically speaking. But you know, yeah, yeah, um,
we do have some numbers for you, we do. Okay,
So october Fest the festival attracts around six million festival
(16:03):
goers every year, but not this one because of covid
um in Germany and only six breweries, all located in Munich,
served beer at the fest. According to an article Dana
Hattic at Eater wrote, festivalgoers in twenty seventeen drank quote
seven point seven million liters of beer, along with four
(16:25):
hundred sixty six thousand, seven forty seven roast chickens, two
hundred and six thousand, five hundred and thirty five pairs
of pork sausages, and close to forty five thousand kilograms
of roasted almonds. Yeah. I didn't know about this roast
chicken aspect. That was no, No, me neither, and it
(16:46):
came up in a couple of different notes it did. Indeed. Um,
twelve thousand hecto liters of beer was poured for the
one hundredth anniversary of october Fest in nineteen ten. Yeah, yeah,
so lots of lots of beer being sampled, lots of
(17:08):
yeah yeah, and uh, for sure, we'll have to do
further episodes about some of the other stuff that goes
on october Fest at a later day in time. The
very inquisine is amazing, um so, but but yeah, yeah,
for for now, that's what we've got, um and we
do have some history for you, we do. But first
(17:30):
we have a quick break for word from our sponsor
and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Yes, thank you. So
beer is old, very old, that's what I have to say. Yes,
(17:52):
beer is like Neolithic. Both wine and beer existed long
before the wheel um, probably some nine thousand years ago.
And and humans are still untangling evidence about when beer
really became a thing. But I'm going to say like
five thousand to nine thousand years ago um. And beer
brewing was tied to breadmaking UM because both have used
(18:12):
sacro mices sarah vic a yeasts in order to make
the stuff happen. Mm hmmm, so old old not new. Yeah,
jumping just a little bit ahead. UM. The refinement of
beer into the beginnings of a few different styles that
we would recognize today began right around the beginning of
(18:35):
the Renaissance. UM. Sometime in the fourteen hundreds, brewers in
the German state of Bavaria began making what's now known
as loggers. Yes, and before refrigeration beer, brewers in Germany
couldn't brew after the weather warmed up in March because
the higher temperatures would allow for the introduction of airborne
bacteria into the fermentation tanks. Those last beers of winter
(19:01):
were aged through spring and summer and once cooler weather
rolled around again in September or October, they tapped the beers,
and these beers tasted a bit fuller, smoother, and people
called them Marson beer, sometimes shortened to Marson or March
in German. Makes sense. I don't know how I didn't
(19:22):
pick up on that, but yeah, I know, right, huh.
In anticipation of this aging process, mars and started as
strong and dark bruise with either caramelized Munich malls and
or roasted Vienna malts, and they were sometimes stored in
caves and cellars. And what was happening here was that
(19:42):
these brewers were unwittingly domesticating a whole new species of yeast,
the aforementioned U. S. Pastorianis. And this is actually a
hybrid of the standard brewers East M. S. Sarah viz
A and s U. Beianness I think, um uh. And
and we only figured that out in like two thousand eleven,
(20:02):
so this is exciting new science. But at any rate, yes, um,
this happened as those brewers selected those bottom dwelling yeasts
after each batch and then used them to ferment their
next batch. Um. Extra interestingly, though, um, the thing that
Sarah Vizier blended with that, you be honest. UM doesn't
seem to be native to Europe at all, but it's
(20:25):
thought to have come in via trade with East Asia. M. Yeah,
very interesting. The first october Fest festival took place to
celebrate the wedding of Crown Prince later King Ludwig the
First of Bavaria to Princess Terisa in eighteen ten as
a way to foster sense of unity in Bavaria after
a rebellion. It was a five day event attended by
(20:48):
forty thousand citizens, held on terisy and Visa or Terraisa's meadow,
or perhaps it's ters and Visa one of those, or
maybe neither I tried um. There was a huge shorts
race uh the idea of a member of the Bavarian
National Guard and Dre s. Michael doll Army UM and
(21:10):
the style of beer served at this first fest was
probably what's known today as dunkle Um, which is a
darker logger m. This festival was apparently so successful that
people decided to make it an annual thing at the
same venue, a celebration of fall harvest and of course
beer that was perfectly timed for the tapping of Marsin.
(21:30):
Not only that, the City of Munich awarded doll Army
the very first citizens Gold Medal for inventing october Fest.
It did get canceled in thirteen due to the Napoleonic Wars.
When the wars came to an end, the event was
brought back with private funding until eighteen nineteen when the
City of Munich stepped in. They decided it was a
(21:52):
big enough deal and it was a way to show
off kind of the culture of the area. Um Over
the years, things like cholera dampened the festival spirit, so
it took a few decades before october Fest solidified into
the event we know it as today. The statue of Bavaria,
the Guardian of october Fest, was unveiled in eighteen fifty.
(22:15):
ROAs style chicken debut in eighteen eighty one, and yes
it still served to this day. A carousel and swings
went up in eighteen eighteen, and starting in the eighteen seventies,
more and more rides went up as part of this festival.
Beer stands were replaced by tents in eighteen ninety six.
The first known instance of Broadwurst was in eighteen eighty
(22:36):
one in eighteen eighty seven. Later, Hosen and Derndill were
named the official attire of october Fest to further promote
Bavarian culture. These were traditional work attire outfits. Mm hmm.
And now there was some cross pollination of brewing trends
and technologies going on in the area. At the time.
(22:57):
Um Munich was really heavy into loggers, these things like
the duncle that were um that were cellared away starting
in March um Vienna meanwhile was really into ales um.
And as the marsin that we know today developed, it
was influenced by both of these processes. Yes, over time
(23:17):
these processes met some of the beer brewing practices in England.
Gabrielle sadal Meyer, the first of Munich's spot in brewery,
a brewer known for his knowledge and yeast management and
bottom fermentation, sent his son, Gabriel the second, his son
and apprentice to learn the methods from breweries in London Edinburgh,
(23:38):
where pale ales were all the rage and uh. Gabriel
was occasionally accompanied by a brewer out of Vienna. They
went and studied at a lot of these breweries together
and as they were learning from UK brewers there was
simultaneously a lot of innovation in beer brewing, including malt kilns. Yeah,
(23:59):
and we talked about this in our Stout and or
Porter episode, so see that for a little bit more
about this development of killing. Yes, when Gabriel returned and
took over his family's brewery in the eighteen thirties, he
incorporated some of these techniques and methods that he picked up,
including and proving how he made Munich style malts. Meanwhile,
(24:20):
his accomplice Anton Dreyer returned to Vienna with the idea
of making lagger beers the color of pale ales by
using pale malts. This resulted in a beer that was
lighter than traditional Munich style beers. In eighteen forty one,
he debuted this amber colored lager beer, and amber beers
(24:41):
that came after largely were inspired by this one. Yeah. Meanwhile,
the bright golden Pilsner Lagger debuted a year later in
eighteen forty two, named for the malts that were being
produced in nearby pills in Bohemia, and it didn't take
long for the pilsner to sweep through the rest of year.
Up again, I thought we'd already done an episode, because
(25:02):
you have to talk about this beer in every beer episode. Um. Meanwhile,
Bianna style Amber Lagger remained pretty local and over in
Munich they were really focused on improving that dunkle. In
eighteen seventies, Gabriel's brother Joseph was experimenting with increasingly popular
lighter colored beers at his own brewery in modern day spots,
(25:24):
and he brewed one he was pleased with in March
eighteen seventy two. It was called Original Mars and had
a much longer name but essentially shortened down to Original
Yeah yeah um, and it was served at that year's
october Fest. It was expensive, but people loved it like
it's sold out um. And that of course other brewers
(25:46):
took note of that and made their own in that style,
and it became the signature style of october Fest. And
that Original Marson is still served at october Fest in Munich.
The structure in fact that it was originally served from,
which is this little barn built by one Michael Schottenhammel
(26:08):
back in eighteen sixty seven. That that barn still stands
and and it is still serving beer to this well,
not not to this day, because october Fest isn't happening
but yes, every october Fest it happens. Yes. Oh, And
beginning of the eighteen nineties, officials shifted the festival to
the end of September, but it lasted into October. M hmm.
(26:31):
This coincided with the advent of refrigeration, which allowed for
beer of any style to be brewed year round, which
made Marson's name sort of antiquated, but beers kept it
to describe a particular style of beer, and through this
it became tied to the amber Logger beer, now symbolic
of october Fest. The Mayor of Munich tapped the first
(26:54):
october Fest keig in nineteen fifty and that has since
become a tradition. The horse races came to an end
in the nineteen sixties, and yeah, that barn, the aforementioned
barn is where that first ceremonial keg is tapped. October
Fest came to the US with German immigrants and Lacrosse,
Wisconsin through an october Fest in nineteen sixty one. For example,
(27:14):
um Cincinnati falls suit in nineteen at seventy six with
october Fest Zincinnati with Z's in twenties seventeen six d
seventy five thousand people attended. Yeah, I believe it's the
largest one in the United States. It's definitely one of
the largest ones in the United States. UM, there's a
(27:35):
running of the Wieners a huge chicken dance. Sounds like
a right hoot, and several listeners have written in about it.
So when travelast thing, we will have to go well.
Added to our ever growing list of field trips. UH. Meanwhile,
in the nineteen seventies, back over in Germany, Munich Brewery
(27:58):
Polliner developed the Golden Fest beer style as a lighter
and quote I I quote the head brewer, they're more
poundable alternative to to the traditional marson um. By the
nineteen nineties it became the dominant style at october Fest. UM.
Tragedy struck october Fest in journey in when an attack
(28:19):
at the festival's entrance left thirteen people dead and two
hundred injured. In the case actually reopened in UM. A
more low key october Fest with the intent of attracting
families was introduced in two thousand five for the two
hundred anniversary in historical october Fest was held, and it
was so popular it too became an annual event. UM.
(28:43):
Barring the every four years that the Bavarian Agricultural Festival
is held, in which case it is not held that year,
but every other instance. Yes, okay, so many october Fest
options to be had, oh, there really are. Yeah, and
and uh, you know through you know pretty much. I
would say wherever German immigrants have settled, you probably have
(29:06):
some kind of october Fest celebration to to be to
be enjoyed. Um. You know, maybe maybe we're we're all
kind of hunkered down this year, but but hopefully in
future years we can all get out and enjoy some
of them. Yes, cheers to that, m prost ah. Yes, um,
(29:26):
but we do have some listener mail for you in
the meantime. We do. But first we've got one more
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you, yes, thank you, and we're back with Snow. Snow.
(29:49):
It's got a big tankard of beer. It's like that
is a Beauty and the Beast where they all singing
about Gaston that the listeners can't see, but I bet
you can picture it. I bet you can. That song
is some of my favorite lines of any Disney song,
because he's so stuck up. Yeah. Um, it's it's it's
(30:16):
the one about spitting that gets me every time. Um,
what is it? Um? I'm exceptionally good at expectorating. Ye. Yes, yes, yeah,
it's good stuff, good stuff. It is I and bad
stuff at the same time. It's both, but in a
very catchy song and very catchily. Yes. I also wrote
(30:36):
about box wine. Colloquially, it's known as goon here so
a writer another writer from Australia um and the interplastic
layer is known as a goon bag. It lends its
name to what I think is the best drinking game
of all time, Goon of Fortune. This is where a
group of friends gather in a circle around a clothesline
(30:58):
which has the full bags from box wine peg to it,
and then the clothes line is spun in a circle
to see who it stops over, with the wine then
being chugged by the player. I've also seen examples of
college students inflating the bags after use and taping them
together to form footstools and pillows. One of my friends
also made the National Papers for creating a sailor Moon
(31:19):
themed costume entirely out of boxed wine bladders, which she
dubbed Sailor Goon. There is a BuzzFeed article on it. Everyone,
it's so good. It's so good. Um all is to say,
it's a baffling cultural phenomenon and in my mind one
of the most entertaining parts of being Australian. That's that's wonderful. Again.
(31:43):
I can't believe I didn't encounter this, We didn't encounter
it in a research but I'm so glad the listeners
and also, yes, Sailor Goon, Sailor Goon. Oh see, I
thought I already had a favorite Sailor moon Pun outfit
and it's Sailor Mercury, but it's Freddie Mercury from Queen
(32:03):
Sailor Gone Might. I don't know. That's pretty good. That
is that is it is a you know, it's a
thing of beauty. It's it's it's a thing of absolute beauty.
She is truly on the forefront of a Sailor moon
Pun costume. Marie. Yeah, a beautiful soldiery of love and justice. Yes. Uh.
(32:33):
Bob wrote I'm walking back to my room here in
London just after eleven pm now and found that I
needed to write in because as I was listening to
Lauren describing how her snails would do what she called
her favorite thing to watch them do, how they would
climb up the side of the tank just to push
off and float back down. But she didn't know a
name for the activity. A name for it immediately came
to my mind. I couldn't believe that neither one of
(32:54):
you thought of it. Of course they were abb snailing. Sorry,
but I just couldn't help myself. This is one of
my very favorite things about our listeners is when they
write in for like puns, like puns that we missed.
(33:15):
That's yes, like that's the best type of correction we
can get. Oh, dear editor, you may believe you missed
this pun us neither. Thank you for sharing your brilliance
all of you. Yes, yes, yes, and uh. Thanks to
(33:36):
both of them for writing. If you would like to
write to us, you can. Our email is hello at
savor pod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor
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(33:58):
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that lots more good things are coming your way. H
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I HOW Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about october Fest beer and specifically the classic styles
or Marsin or Miasen. I heard like Marsin Marson. Okay, well, okay,
(00:29):
we never really got to the bottom of it. I
never took German. Fogelbaum is pretty much all that I know. Well,
I did take German, four years of it, and I
worked in a German office for a whole semester, and
so I have no excuse. As per usual, I will say, surprisingly,
(00:53):
beer didn't come up that much in my office. You know,
it did come up a lot fries, French fries. We'll
see you had priorities, and that's fine. I couldn't tell
you how to say that either, though it suit mere live.
I remember, sorry because I apologized a lot of bad pronunciation.
(01:15):
Uh but yeah, yeah, I suppose the time is right.
This was a Lauren Lauren's suggestion. I actually really don't
know much about this beer. I've never really heard that
name before. I've heard like october Fest beers, but Malsden
or Marson, however you pronounce it I had not really
heard of Uh, yeah, I don't think. I don't think
(01:38):
that I was very aware of it. I think that
I've consumed a certain amount of it. Um during october
Fest season around around town. Here in Atlanta, we're very
lucky to have a number of beer bars and local
breweries that do some super interesting stuff. Um. And I
was thinking about it because one new one called Halfway
(02:00):
Crooks just released this entire october Fest lineup and they're
serving all of this delicious looking Bavarian food and I
really want to go over there. Um. So this is
this is why I was thinking about it. See, I'd
almost totally forgotten about it, since time is essentially meaningless
these days. But I did, um, I did. When I
(02:24):
was in my youth, I went to many a bad
october Fest at one Helen, Georgia. Yeah, such a shall
we say, very interesting kind of German Dutch themed town. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
My dad was a professor at the local college, so
(02:44):
all these people would come up and ask me questions
about how to pass this class, and then it would
inevitably get back to my dad that I was out
drinking late or whatever. It was small tone. Yeah, I
don't well, they were fun, but I'm sure they weren't
very uh authentic october Fest celebration. Oh yeah, I somehow
(03:12):
doubted as well, knowing, you know, the little bit or
or having spent a little bit of time that I
have in Helen Um. But I'm sure it was enthusiastic,
and that's that's part of what counts. Yes, Yes, enthusiasm
was there for sure. Um. So we have done a
few episodes on beer types of beer. We've done sour beers.
Unless I'm mistaken, we did pills and r It's quite possible.
(03:35):
I don't think we did, did we. I think it's
just come up in so many because it really changed
the whole beer landscape that I just feel like we have. Yeah,
we definitely talked about it in Stouts and Porters. Oh
U p a s. We did think that's what you're
thinking of, right, yet I knew there was another one
(03:57):
in there. Um and Yeah. I also wanted to announce
that if you're looking for something to watch on Netflix, uh,
their Halloween lineup includes a new film called october Fest,
Beer and Blood. That's an option. I can't tell you
more than that. I feel like, like everything that you
(04:20):
need to know, it says right there on the tent,
I agree, and the thumbnail image gives me a pretty
big clue that it's tourists gone wrong. Sure, but you know,
I don't know. And as always with these alcohol episodes,
drink responsibly, yes, yes, always yes. But okay, that brings
(04:45):
us to our question. Mm hmm october Fest beers in Marson,
what are they? Well? Uh, okay these days as October
Fast or mouse un might mean I'm just gonna say
mars And like an American, y'all, I'm sure I'm pronouncing
(05:07):
it wrong anyway, So I'm just gonna go with mars And. Um. Yeah,
it might mean a variety of things, depending on the
brewer who's making it and their their interpretation of the style.
But um, the essence perhaps of mars And is that
it's a It's a pale lagger um amber to golden
in color, rich with toasty malt flavors, a little bit
creamy in the mouth feel, but pretty crisp lighting alcohol
(05:28):
around five to six a b v, maybe up to
six point five. Um. That's alcohol bi volume, by the way. Um,
And if I may get a little bit poetical about
this style, um, it should remind you of of fall
leaves and in the weather turning. Oh that is a
little poetical, and I love it. I do have a
(05:52):
tradition on I like to get a summer beer and
a fall beer. I have I would say goodbye to
summer and then hello to fall. So I get what
you're saying. Yeah, yeah, just just just crisp and and
sort of the color of fall leaves. UM And for
a long time, UM the mars and was synonymous with
(06:12):
october Fest in Germany, so the style is sometimes called
october Fest. However, the way that we make october Fest
here in America, it's sort of like a time capsule um,
like a window to what the style was in Germany
around the turn of the twentieth century. Um, a little
sweet and biscuity, a little bit spicy from hops um
(06:33):
amber in color. But but the styles of beers brewed
for october Fest continued developing over in Germany. And so
these days and october Fest beer enjoyed there is going
to be golden and cleaner. UM, still a little bit sweet,
more bready than biscuity, which I know is like a
really in the weeds beer nerd kind of distinction. But
(06:53):
but I guess, I guess bretty is a little bit
like fresher, almost like the smell of fresh baked bread,
whereas biscuity is a little bit toastier and and maybe
a little bit heavier. Mm hmm. I feel like it's
something that I couldn't really described very well, but I
(07:14):
can just feel it. I know what youah, Yeah, it's yeah,
it's that biscuit feeling. Yes, yes, we in the South
absolutely know about that. Um. But so so this um,
this this more golden, cleaner bready style that was developed
(07:35):
in Germany. Um. This style is now sometimes called fest
beer or vissn, which means meadow and refers to the
fields where october Fest takes place. And yeah, so that's
going to be the dominant style of october Fest in Germany,
whereas ours is the mars in Um. But okay, I
(07:56):
just threw like a lot of words at y'all, um,
and my cats savas throwing some words at me. Goodness,
little buddy. We'll see if about this as well. So
so yes, um. Octoberfest it is an annual autumn festival
(08:18):
that is held in Munich, Germany, UM, which is an
area known for its breweries, so so part of the
festivities have always included local beers, and it also includes
celebrations of the local folk culture of Bavaria with a
music and dance and puppetry and costumes, parades, food games,
shooting displays, and rides. Yes, like one that is apparently
(08:42):
called the Pendulum of Chaos. No, I'm shocked that this
is not a thing that you personally designed for us
in Dungeons and Dragons, but shocked as well. Apparently I
had to read up on this after Annie just entered
a note in the outline that said the Pendulum of Chaos. Yeah,
(09:04):
no explanation, no explanation. I was like, what pendulum and
what chaos? But yeah, this is a ride that was
new as and is apparently a swing and sling shot
ride with two cabins fitting eight passengers each, which can
both go in all possible directions according to the Telegraph.
(09:27):
So I'm like, is this a wankavad or what's happening?
I don't understand. I'm intrigued. I'm intrigued. M hm. Also,
I feel like beer plus of chaos. I mean, that's
part of the chaos element that you're introducing. It works
on us. Yeah it does. But anyway, we're a food show.
(09:53):
The beer um okay, so so so before we get
into these specific styles of beer, very brief beer overview.
But beer is what you get when you make a
thin soup out of grains and then encourage yeasts to
eat the sugars in that soup and poop carbon dioxide,
bubbles and alcohol and flavor yeast food. And now I
(10:18):
said that a marsin is a lagger, and and that
refers to the type of yeast that's used to brew it.
Laggers are made with with yeasts that thrive at relatively
cool temperatures about forty to fifty fahrenheit or five to
ten celsius um. These are sometimes called bottom fermenting yeasts
because because they easily sink to the bottom of the
fermenting vessel and were traditionally collected from the bottom when
(10:42):
making the next batch of beer. The yeasts that make
ales in comparison thrive at warmer temperatures, like a twenty
fahrenheit or fifteen celsius warmer um, and those are top fermenting,
meaning that they kick up more foam at the top
of the vessel while they're doing that fermentation and are
then collected from the top when they're done now in
(11:05):
a lagger um. Those lower temperatures mean that the fermentation
process happens more slowly and the resulting beers really benefit
from being aged a little bit like a few months
at least um in cool conditions, and this process is
known as loggering um. That the yeasts used our varieties
of a species called sacramics pastorianis Um in honor of
(11:27):
Louis Pasteur's contributions to brewing um, including his early recognition
the top dwelling and bottom dwelling yeasts were inherently distinct. Oh,
I have a quick like related note that I want
to share. Um. So, my mom's birthday was the weekend,
and I meant to text you this, Lauren, but I
thought this might be too weird to text to send
(11:48):
to a friend and co worker on the weekend. Okay,
she said what she wanted for her birthday was a
documentary on Louis Pasteur, was about one of the sweetest things.
Oh man, so great, this is where I good. Bro,
(12:11):
that's amazing. Did you find her one? No, I'm I'm
looking for it. But yeah, that's what she You know,
I was just imagining she loves guarding something with that
or I don't know. I was never in my wildest dreams,
and I think she was going to say that was
a very past story. That's great, that is that is
(12:34):
so sweet? Oh no, all right, Well, if anyone has
a good one, please right in. Yes, yes, please, my
mom is your my mom's only hope? Yeah, okay, okay, okay,
but but but loggers yeah so um. So the flavors
and colors that you get in any given logger once
it's finished are going to depend heavily on the ingredients
(12:57):
that you put into it, your your malts, your hops. Um.
But a unifying trait tends to be a crisp, clean
taste because a those yeasts have had a little bit
longer to eat the sugars in the grain soup. Um
and be because logger yeasts don't produce as many um,
floral or fruity flavors as ale yeasts do. UM. So
(13:21):
therefore logger yeasts let the flavors of the malts really shine. Um.
And that grain soup, by the way that it's it's
called wart um. Don't go to your local brewer and say, hey,
this podcast, or Lauren vogel Baum told me to call
it grain soup or I mean do I guess I
can't stop you now that I put that out into
the universe. But it's how it goes. Oh jeez, oh, brewers,
(13:46):
I'm so sorry, are you though? Um? But but but
mars in in particular, Okay, So those malts in marsin
um Okay. Backing up from that, a malt is a
grain that's been germinated and then dried, and the germination
makes the sugars and the grains more accessible to your
(14:08):
yeasts and how you dry them or kiln them as
it's called. Um, we'll give you a range of flavors
and colors in your final beer. Pale beers use very
lightly killed malts, and darker beers use malts that have
been a toasted creating caramelization and or roasted creating the
mayard reaction. And mars in is is usually going to
(14:31):
be a blend of a few different styles of traditional malt.
Um Pilsner, Vienna, and Munich, named for the cities where
they were developed. Um Pilsner is a very light malt,
Munich is caramelized, and Vienna is roasted so how much
of each you use will depend on what you want
the final product to be like. And hops. Hops are
(14:54):
added to beer partially because they helped control the growth
of unwanted microbes um, and sometimes to add their own
strong flavors like in an I p A. And sometimes
more to just balance the sweetness of the malts with
a touch of bitterness and um. And that ladder flavor
gig is the gig in Mars and and other laggers
like the Pilsner. Because yeah, you shouldn't even really notice
(15:18):
that the hops are there in the final product. M
m I guess that's true. M hmm. All right, Well
what about the nutrition? Drink responsibly? Yeah, um, I will
say in general, um, the lower the A b V
(15:39):
or alcohol BI volume, um, the fewer calories of beer
typically will have UM. So that puts Mars in in
like the load amid range calorically speaking. But you know, yeah, yeah, um,
we do have some numbers for you, we do. Okay,
So october Fest the festival attracts around six million festival
(16:03):
goers every year, but not this one because of covid
um in Germany and only six breweries, all located in Munich,
served beer at the fest. According to an article Dana
Hattic at Eater wrote, festivalgoers in twenty seventeen drank quote
seven point seven million liters of beer, along with four
(16:25):
hundred sixty six thousand, seven forty seven roast chickens, two
hundred and six thousand, five hundred and thirty five pairs
of pork sausages, and close to forty five thousand kilograms
of roasted almonds. Yeah. I didn't know about this roast
chicken aspect. That was no, No, me neither, and it
(16:46):
came up in a couple of different notes it did. Indeed. Um,
twelve thousand hecto liters of beer was poured for the
one hundredth anniversary of october Fest in nineteen ten. Yeah, yeah,
so lots of lots of beer being sampled, lots of
(17:08):
yeah yeah, and uh, for sure, we'll have to do
further episodes about some of the other stuff that goes
on october Fest at a later day in time. The
very inquisine is amazing, um so, but but yeah, yeah,
for for now, that's what we've got, um and we
do have some history for you, we do. But first
(17:30):
we have a quick break for word from our sponsor
and we're back. Thank you sponsor. Yes, thank you. So
beer is old, very old, that's what I have to say. Yes,
(17:52):
beer is like Neolithic. Both wine and beer existed long
before the wheel um, probably some nine thousand years ago.
And and humans are still untangling evidence about when beer
really became a thing. But I'm going to say like
five thousand to nine thousand years ago um. And beer
brewing was tied to breadmaking UM because both have used
(18:12):
sacro mices sarah vic a yeasts in order to make
the stuff happen. Mm hmmm, so old old not new. Yeah,
jumping just a little bit ahead. UM. The refinement of
beer into the beginnings of a few different styles that
we would recognize today began right around the beginning of
(18:35):
the Renaissance. UM. Sometime in the fourteen hundreds, brewers in
the German state of Bavaria began making what's now known
as loggers. Yes, and before refrigeration beer, brewers in Germany
couldn't brew after the weather warmed up in March because
the higher temperatures would allow for the introduction of airborne
bacteria into the fermentation tanks. Those last beers of winter
(19:01):
were aged through spring and summer and once cooler weather
rolled around again in September or October, they tapped the beers,
and these beers tasted a bit fuller, smoother, and people
called them Marson beer, sometimes shortened to Marson or March
in German. Makes sense. I don't know how I didn't
(19:22):
pick up on that, but yeah, I know, right, huh.
In anticipation of this aging process, mars and started as
strong and dark bruise with either caramelized Munich malls and
or roasted Vienna malts, and they were sometimes stored in
caves and cellars. And what was happening here was that
(19:42):
these brewers were unwittingly domesticating a whole new species of yeast,
the aforementioned U. S. Pastorianis. And this is actually a
hybrid of the standard brewers East M. S. Sarah viz
A and s U. Beianness I think, um uh. And
and we only figured that out in like two thousand eleven,
(20:02):
so this is exciting new science. But at any rate, yes, um,
this happened as those brewers selected those bottom dwelling yeasts
after each batch and then used them to ferment their
next batch. Um. Extra interestingly, though, um, the thing that
Sarah Vizier blended with that, you be honest. UM doesn't
seem to be native to Europe at all, but it's
(20:25):
thought to have come in via trade with East Asia. M. Yeah,
very interesting. The first october Fest festival took place to
celebrate the wedding of Crown Prince later King Ludwig the
First of Bavaria to Princess Terisa in eighteen ten as
a way to foster sense of unity in Bavaria after
a rebellion. It was a five day event attended by
(20:48):
forty thousand citizens, held on terisy and Visa or Terraisa's meadow,
or perhaps it's ters and Visa one of those, or
maybe neither I tried um. There was a huge shorts
race uh the idea of a member of the Bavarian
National Guard and Dre s. Michael doll Army UM and
(21:10):
the style of beer served at this first fest was
probably what's known today as dunkle Um, which is a
darker logger m. This festival was apparently so successful that
people decided to make it an annual thing at the
same venue, a celebration of fall harvest and of course
beer that was perfectly timed for the tapping of Marsin.
(21:30):
Not only that, the City of Munich awarded doll Army
the very first citizens Gold Medal for inventing october Fest.
It did get canceled in thirteen due to the Napoleonic Wars.
When the wars came to an end, the event was
brought back with private funding until eighteen nineteen when the
City of Munich stepped in. They decided it was a
(21:52):
big enough deal and it was a way to show
off kind of the culture of the area. Um Over
the years, things like cholera dampened the festival spirit, so
it took a few decades before october Fest solidified into
the event we know it as today. The statue of Bavaria,
the Guardian of october Fest, was unveiled in eighteen fifty.
(22:15):
ROAs style chicken debut in eighteen eighty one, and yes
it still served to this day. A carousel and swings
went up in eighteen eighteen, and starting in the eighteen seventies,
more and more rides went up as part of this festival.
Beer stands were replaced by tents in eighteen ninety six.
The first known instance of Broadwurst was in eighteen eighty
(22:36):
one in eighteen eighty seven. Later, Hosen and Derndill were
named the official attire of october Fest to further promote
Bavarian culture. These were traditional work attire outfits. Mm hmm.
And now there was some cross pollination of brewing trends
and technologies going on in the area. At the time.
(22:57):
Um Munich was really heavy into loggers, these things like
the duncle that were um that were cellared away starting
in March um Vienna meanwhile was really into ales um.
And as the marsin that we know today developed, it
was influenced by both of these processes. Yes, over time
(23:17):
these processes met some of the beer brewing practices in England.
Gabrielle sadal Meyer, the first of Munich's spot in brewery,
a brewer known for his knowledge and yeast management and
bottom fermentation, sent his son, Gabriel the second, his son
and apprentice to learn the methods from breweries in London Edinburgh,
(23:38):
where pale ales were all the rage and uh. Gabriel
was occasionally accompanied by a brewer out of Vienna. They
went and studied at a lot of these breweries together
and as they were learning from UK brewers there was
simultaneously a lot of innovation in beer brewing, including malt kilns. Yeah,
(23:59):
and we talked about this in our Stout and or
Porter episode, so see that for a little bit more
about this development of killing. Yes, when Gabriel returned and
took over his family's brewery in the eighteen thirties, he
incorporated some of these techniques and methods that he picked up,
including and proving how he made Munich style malts. Meanwhile,
(24:20):
his accomplice Anton Dreyer returned to Vienna with the idea
of making lagger beers the color of pale ales by
using pale malts. This resulted in a beer that was
lighter than traditional Munich style beers. In eighteen forty one,
he debuted this amber colored lager beer, and amber beers
(24:41):
that came after largely were inspired by this one. Yeah. Meanwhile,
the bright golden Pilsner Lagger debuted a year later in
eighteen forty two, named for the malts that were being
produced in nearby pills in Bohemia, and it didn't take
long for the pilsner to sweep through the rest of year.
Up again, I thought we'd already done an episode, because
(25:02):
you have to talk about this beer in every beer episode. Um. Meanwhile,
Bianna style Amber Lagger remained pretty local and over in
Munich they were really focused on improving that dunkle. In
eighteen seventies, Gabriel's brother Joseph was experimenting with increasingly popular
lighter colored beers at his own brewery in modern day spots,
(25:24):
and he brewed one he was pleased with in March
eighteen seventy two. It was called Original Mars and had
a much longer name but essentially shortened down to Original
Yeah yeah um, and it was served at that year's
october Fest. It was expensive, but people loved it like
it's sold out um. And that of course other brewers
(25:46):
took note of that and made their own in that style,
and it became the signature style of october Fest. And
that Original Marson is still served at october Fest in Munich.
The structure in fact that it was originally served from,
which is this little barn built by one Michael Schottenhammel
(26:08):
back in eighteen sixty seven. That that barn still stands
and and it is still serving beer to this well,
not not to this day, because october Fest isn't happening
but yes, every october Fest it happens. Yes. Oh, And
beginning of the eighteen nineties, officials shifted the festival to
the end of September, but it lasted into October. M hmm.
(26:31):
This coincided with the advent of refrigeration, which allowed for
beer of any style to be brewed year round, which
made Marson's name sort of antiquated, but beers kept it
to describe a particular style of beer, and through this
it became tied to the amber Logger beer, now symbolic
of october Fest. The Mayor of Munich tapped the first
(26:54):
october Fest keig in nineteen fifty and that has since
become a tradition. The horse races came to an end
in the nineteen sixties, and yeah, that barn, the aforementioned
barn is where that first ceremonial keg is tapped. October
Fest came to the US with German immigrants and Lacrosse,
Wisconsin through an october Fest in nineteen sixty one. For example,
(27:14):
um Cincinnati falls suit in nineteen at seventy six with
october Fest Zincinnati with Z's in twenties seventeen six d
seventy five thousand people attended. Yeah, I believe it's the
largest one in the United States. It's definitely one of
the largest ones in the United States. UM, there's a
(27:35):
running of the Wieners a huge chicken dance. Sounds like
a right hoot, and several listeners have written in about it.
So when travelast thing, we will have to go well.
Added to our ever growing list of field trips. UH. Meanwhile,
in the nineteen seventies, back over in Germany, Munich Brewery
(27:58):
Polliner developed the Golden Fest beer style as a lighter
and quote I I quote the head brewer, they're more
poundable alternative to to the traditional marson um. By the
nineteen nineties it became the dominant style at october Fest. UM.
Tragedy struck october Fest in journey in when an attack
(28:19):
at the festival's entrance left thirteen people dead and two
hundred injured. In the case actually reopened in UM. A
more low key october Fest with the intent of attracting
families was introduced in two thousand five for the two
hundred anniversary in historical october Fest was held, and it
was so popular it too became an annual event. UM.
(28:43):
Barring the every four years that the Bavarian Agricultural Festival
is held, in which case it is not held that year,
but every other instance. Yes, okay, so many october Fest
options to be had, oh, there really are. Yeah, and
and uh, you know through you know pretty much. I
would say wherever German immigrants have settled, you probably have
(29:06):
some kind of october Fest celebration to to be to
be enjoyed. Um. You know, maybe maybe we're we're all
kind of hunkered down this year, but but hopefully in
future years we can all get out and enjoy some
of them. Yes, cheers to that, m prost ah. Yes, um,
(29:26):
but we do have some listener mail for you in
the meantime. We do. But first we've got one more
quick break for a word from our sponsor, and we're back.
Thank you, yes, thank you, and we're back with Snow. Snow.
(29:49):
It's got a big tankard of beer. It's like that
is a Beauty and the Beast where they all singing
about Gaston that the listeners can't see, but I bet
you can picture it. I bet you can. That song
is some of my favorite lines of any Disney song,
because he's so stuck up. Yeah. Um, it's it's it's
(30:16):
the one about spitting that gets me every time. Um,
what is it? Um? I'm exceptionally good at expectorating. Ye. Yes, yes, yeah,
it's good stuff, good stuff. It is I and bad
stuff at the same time. It's both, but in a
very catchy song and very catchily. Yes. I also wrote
(30:36):
about box wine. Colloquially, it's known as goon here so
a writer another writer from Australia um and the interplastic
layer is known as a goon bag. It lends its
name to what I think is the best drinking game
of all time, Goon of Fortune. This is where a
group of friends gather in a circle around a clothesline
(30:58):
which has the full bags from box wine peg to it,
and then the clothes line is spun in a circle
to see who it stops over, with the wine then
being chugged by the player. I've also seen examples of
college students inflating the bags after use and taping them
together to form footstools and pillows. One of my friends
also made the National Papers for creating a sailor Moon
(31:19):
themed costume entirely out of boxed wine bladders, which she
dubbed Sailor Goon. There is a BuzzFeed article on it. Everyone,
it's so good. It's so good. Um all is to say,
it's a baffling cultural phenomenon and in my mind one
of the most entertaining parts of being Australian. That's that's wonderful. Again.
(31:43):
I can't believe I didn't encounter this, We didn't encounter
it in a research but I'm so glad the listeners
and also, yes, Sailor Goon, Sailor Goon. Oh see, I
thought I already had a favorite Sailor moon Pun outfit
and it's Sailor Mercury, but it's Freddie Mercury from Queen
(32:03):
Sailor Gone Might. I don't know. That's pretty good. That
is that is it is a you know, it's a
thing of beauty. It's it's it's a thing of absolute beauty.
She is truly on the forefront of a Sailor moon
Pun costume. Marie. Yeah, a beautiful soldiery of love and justice. Yes. Uh.
(32:33):
Bob wrote I'm walking back to my room here in
London just after eleven pm now and found that I
needed to write in because as I was listening to
Lauren describing how her snails would do what she called
her favorite thing to watch them do, how they would
climb up the side of the tank just to push
off and float back down. But she didn't know a
name for the activity. A name for it immediately came
to my mind. I couldn't believe that neither one of
(32:54):
you thought of it. Of course they were abb snailing. Sorry,
but I just couldn't help myself. This is one of
my very favorite things about our listeners is when they
write in for like puns, like puns that we missed.
(33:15):
That's yes, like that's the best type of correction we
can get. Oh, dear editor, you may believe you missed
this pun us neither. Thank you for sharing your brilliance
all of you. Yes, yes, yes, and uh. Thanks to
(33:36):
both of them for writing. If you would like to
write to us, you can. Our email is hello at
savor pod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
heart Radio, you can visit the i Heart Radio app,
(33:58):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagin and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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