November 4, 2022 • 34 mins
This processed pork product inspires fierce loyalty – and fabulous breakfasts – no matter what you call it. Anney and Lauren dig into the history and culture of pork roll/Taylor ham.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Sabor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm any Reason and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about pork roll and or
Taylor Ham. Don't yell at us. I feel I gonna
use them interchangeably. We are. I feel like even putting
one term before the other term was just controversial. Please
(00:29):
please don't come at us. We have no pork in
this race. Uh. We We love all of you and
your strong opinions. We genuinely do. And it was funny
that you say that because I originally called this outline
when I started it Taylor Ham. And then I noticed
throughout I was using pork roll more and I was like,
(00:51):
what if somebody gets ahold of this, and that's gonna
get out what I've done? Because drama listeners so much drama,
so much strong opinions. It is quite fun. Um and
shout out to our listeners, including but not limited to,
(01:12):
Matt Danielle, Tracy Howard. I think the email wasn't signed,
but that was the address, Um and Leon. So that's
already a handful of people have said, you've got to
talk about this. We've read their listener mails on the show. Um,
so we did it. We're here, yeah, here we are. Yes,
(01:33):
And I will say, um, I don't have any experience
with this one. Perhaps clearly. I'm actually very impressed at
how specifically regional this is, um, because there's a lot
of stuff that's like, oh, this is like a southern thing,
this is a Northeastern thing, like oh, man, like this
(01:55):
one's definitely from from the Pacific northwest. But but this
is so it's like New Jersey and parts of Pennsylvania
as far as I can tell. And that's it. There
are actual maps you can look up. It's amazing. Um.
And you don't have any experience with it either, right,
(02:18):
Not that I am personally aware of. Um. I did
live in Ohio and Pennsylvania for a time when I
was very young, but I was more in like in
like western Pennsylvania, and I think this is more like
an eastern Pennsylvania thing. So if I did have it
(02:39):
as a kid, I do not remember it, and I
do not believe I've encountered it as an adult. Okay, Okay,
so probably not. So we're flying we're both flying blind
on this one. We have only the extraordinarily extensive opinions
of the Internet to go off. Yes, And speaking of that, um,
(03:05):
I do want to say at the top, uh, I,
so we are coming out of Halloween weekend when we
when I was researching this, it was the Monday of Halloween,
so after Halloween weekend, and I was exhausted, so exhausted.
It's not even that I did too much, but it's
not more than I'm used to since the pandemic. And
(03:30):
I thought, surely, you know, this is a pretty regional thing.
I can I can knock this out. Not it won't
take too long to at least get the basics of
what it is. And it's the first time listeners that
I have fallen asleep at my laptop in years. And
the last thing I typed that I don't remember typing
(03:53):
was leave me b because I kept finding so much more,
probably opinion an article that I was like, I can
do anymore. I love it, I'm endeared by it. But
my goodness, Yeah, well, it's it's gonna be okay, Annie,
(04:16):
I think it's gonna be okay. We're just we're impartial
observers were here to report the facts such as they are.
Uh uh, And and that's yeah, that's all that we
can do. I think I think it's going to turn
(04:37):
out all right. I think so too. And like I said,
it is really fun. It just I got a good chuckle.
The next morning when I woke up, I was like,
oh no, I fell asleep on my laptop. Why did
I right leave me be Oh yeah, Taylor Ham No,
I'm excited. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah me too, me too.
(04:57):
Um and uh in in the first of many controversial
things that I'm going to say. Um, you can see
our scrapple and our spam episodes for like a little
bit more on similar American products. Yes, you are correct,
(05:18):
that is controversial, but at least you didn't say that
one another thing that you should never do, which if
you know, you know? Um? Okay. Also, National pork Roll
Day is May Tree. Okay, okay, okay, Well now I'm
(05:40):
nervous already. All right, here we go. Let's get to
our question. Let's do it. Let's do it. Taylor have
slash pork roll? What are they? Is it? Uh? Whatever
you call it? What we are talking about here today
(06:03):
is a pre cooked, processed pork product wherein the meat
has been blended, smooth and seasoned. Then pressed into a
loaf shaped like a like a round or a log,
and cured, smoked, and or otherwise cooked. It is mostly
a commercial product, and folks are secretive about their recipes
(06:24):
as well. They should be get it, y'all. Um. Anyway,
slices off of the round can be grittled up and
served with a breakfasts and on sandwiches, or chopped into
other dishes. I again have not had it, so I
am not speaking from personal experience, but I understand that
this is like a like a sausage, like like a
(06:45):
smooth type of sausage that's soft and salty, not like
too too fatty, but kind of fatty, um, a little smoky,
a little spiced um and cooks up with crisped edges. Uh,
sort of like a like a mile more to adela
without the chunks of fat or other mixings, or like
a stronger bologna um like like a like a smooth
(07:10):
porkine breakfast meat loaf. Yeah, y'all, y'all tell me it
sounds incredibly satisfying like that that combination of crisp edges
from from frying it up and and the softness of
the meat. It sounds really nice. I love how many
articles I've found started with essentially the same story of
(07:31):
like Dad in his robes on Christmas Day or something
kicking pork. So it sounds yeah, it sounds delicious. Please
let us know. Yeah, yeah, if you have, if you
have the poetry for us, then then then then please
right in. Um okay uh. There are two like main
(07:54):
producers of these products, both out of Trenton, New Jersey, um,
though a number of other producers local to the area
make it, and some of their plants are a little
bit more widespread. The logs or rolls tend to be
uh like five or six inches in diameter, often somewhere
around like fourteen centimeters, so yeah, um uh. As far
(08:16):
as I can tell, there are two main varieties of
of this product, um mild and tangy, and the only
real difference on the labels is that the tangy types
will list lactic acid starter culture as an ingredient, so
we can assume that the tangy nous comes from a
curing process in which friendly lactic acid bacteria are encouraged
(08:39):
to grow in the product, eating some of the sugars
that are added and pooping flavor bacteria. Uh. And yeah,
you guys, I have read a lot today about pork
roll and or Taylor ham um, and I cannot tell
you exactly how it is made. Uh. I can tell
(09:01):
you the products like Bologny and Mortidella are made by okay,
grinding meat super fine, mixing in some salt and maybe
some sugar and uh whatever spices you're using, and then
blending everything smooth. Um. Then you shape it into logs.
Sometimes you um you kind of pipe it into canvas
(09:22):
bags of the appropriate shape, at which point you can
um let them cure at cool temperatures and or smoke
them low and slow and or boil them. Um. Uh.
Some pork roll and or tailor ham products indeed are
sold in canvas bags of this type. You can also
buy it shrink wrapped in pre sliced rounds. It is
(09:45):
not shelf stable, um. It is a chilled deli or
like fridge case item, like like bacon or other breakfast
sausages or other processed meats. Yeah. One of the properties
of this stuff, um typically is that it will curl
up around the edges or cup like some pepperoni when
it's cooked. Um, when it's like pan fried. Once you've
(10:07):
gotten slices. Yeah, and that is that curling is considered undesirable,
so it's often cut either once or a few times
around the edges um, with the slits going inward towards
the center to prevent curling. Um. And from what I
understand this, a single cut might be called a pac
man and a multi cut might be called a fireman's badge.
(10:30):
But y'all, y'all tell me, I don't Oh wow, is
that something you can ask for? I guess I oh
my gosh, okay, yeah, please let us know. My my
dad used to cook fried bologna, which I know is
not the same thing. Don't yell at me. He would
always put four slits in it when he would do it.
(10:50):
So interesting. Yeah, okay, but right right. Um. It is
often served as a breakfast meat or popularly on breakfast sandwiches,
along with egg and cheese on either a Kaiser roll
or a bagel. Um. I've read that there's also a
(11:11):
divide about mustard versus ketchup being the appropriate condiment for this. Uh.
But yeah, I've read a number of other recipes. You
might like, chop some of this into um into a
stuffing for like for like mushrooms, um or or vegetables
of some kind. You might use it as a topping
for pastas or for pizza. Um, you might use it
(11:33):
in like cast roles or omelets or enchilada's something like that. Yeah. Yes,
there are so many recipes that you said. Um, and
also listeners, please please write in about this mustard versus
ketchup thing, because I saw a lot of abbreviations, which
is kind of why we arrived at this whole name
(11:54):
the debate in the first place. But that I saw,
um that we're for like with catchup or without, So
please let us let us know about that too. Yeah,
oh my goodness. Yes, Well what about the nutrition. Uh,
this is a calorically dense food. Um, high and fat
(12:16):
and high and saturated fat, lots of sodium, also lots
of protein. Um. It will help keep you going, but
to fill you up and to get some you know,
important micronutrients in there. Um, pair it with a starch,
eat a vegetable hydrate, you know, all the important things
I'd like to talk about. Uh, we do have some
(12:39):
numbers for you. Yes, okay, So, as mentioned, this is
a in some ways surprisingly localized thing. At least half
a dozen companies in New Jersey produced the meat needed
for pork rolls. But that's like where the bulk of
it is. Yeah, yeah, Um. The park roll appreciation page
(13:02):
on Facebook has over forty six thousand followers, and I
think that number was a little old. So no, yeah,
oh my gosh. And we're going to talk. Yeah, we
are in the history section. But New Jersey holds an
annual pork roll festival, but more than one, there are
(13:24):
rival festivals on the same weekend. New Jersey um okay
uh Rutgers Eagleton did a poll in They pulled up
forty three phone respondents, and this poll revealed that percent
(13:47):
of overall residents of New Jersey call it a park roll,
call it Taylor ham H two used the names interchangeably,
don't use either term, aren't really sure what they call it? Okay, okay,
all right. However, furthermore, there is a strong North South
(14:12):
Jersey divide um of North Jersey ears use the term
tailor ham of South Jersey ears use park roll. Yes, okay.
And furthermore, it is more divisive the longer you've lived there. Uh.
(14:34):
People who have always lived in the state of them
have a strong opinion one way or another. Oh my gosh,
it's fantastic. And I read that it was like a
great indicator of like, oh, they're probably phone, they're probably
oh yeah, Oh my gosh, I love it. I love it.
I love it. Um. Here's a quote from a New
(14:56):
Jersey in who are actually going to talk about more
in the history part, who has asked about the great
name debate on in ja dot com or New Jersey
dot com. Quote, Our identities often revolve around Philadelphia or
New York City. Taylor hand versus pork roll is something
that is solely ours. That's why we will forever fight
about it. Oh how wonderful. I know, I know. And
(15:24):
we have so many more debates, fights, drama we do,
we do uh, And we are going to get into that.
But first we're going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
(15:48):
thank you. So we haven't done a sandwich episode unless
I am massively forgetting, and I don't think I would know.
We have not done that. I've been avoiding it. I've
guy have as well. And this is not that episode. No, no,
this is not also an episode about sausage. No, no,
also no, uh, but in the loosest sense of fillings
(16:14):
encased by something for convenience in transportation, whether it's sandwich
or sausage. People have been eating sandwiches and roll like things,
especially with salted and cured meat, because they last, um
for a long time. And we've talked about it multiple episodes. Yes, um,
(16:38):
there are anecdotal records of Union soldiers transporting what we're
essentially Taylor ham slash pork rolls. Oh, I'm so nervous
during the Civil War, and other sources suggest that perhaps
we can chase the history of this item to the
Revolutionary War, when soldiers carried these roles of salted cured
(16:59):
ham around. Um. However, pork roll enthusiasts generally accept eighteen
fifty six as the year it went official. Alright, alright,
it's been a long time since I felt like I
was on such a tight rope in one of these episodes.
(17:20):
According to one of the current and most well known
manufacturers of this product, which we mentioned, Taylor Provisions of
Trenton Um. They are the originator of the Taylor ham
and originally there's still a leftover slashing here for pork roll,
which I guess I should have left in, but they
perfore they prefer a specific term. They have said it
(17:45):
was us um. So they like to say the credit
goes to them because the company made John Taylor's quote
Original Taylor pork Roll, which they say is the official name.
But that has not always been the case. Okay. So
the story they and other folks like to tell is
that a New Jersey senator and well known businessman named
(18:06):
John Taylor created the first pork roll as we know
them today ish um cured meat with spices, preservatives, and
a sugar cure, smoked, and package rolled up in a
cloth sack for easier transporting and slicing. And this was
specifically a business decision to set it apart from other
(18:26):
popular sausages and meats that were available at the time. Um,
and he called it Taylor's preferred ham. Uh. He later
had to drop the ham from the name in nineteen
o six when the newly established Food and Drug Act
declared that the product didn't meet the definition of ham. Okay, yeah,
(18:47):
so he rebranded as Original Taylor pork roll, and he
did his best to secure a patent for pork roll
to discourage competitors from using the name, but he never
managed it. You can find some interesting like official documents
about it. His biggest foe was the Case brand, and
(19:10):
this has been a battle of the ages tailor provisions.
The company name as of nineteen thirty nine versus the
Case Pork Company, which was later rebranded as the Case
Pork Role Company. And that's one of the big like
which one do you prefer? Arguments is still going on. Um.
So Case got its start in eighteen seventy. It was
(19:30):
founded by a farmer named George Washington Case, and his
original product used hickory smoked pork from his farm. It
was first sold in corn husts. Uh yeah, either at
the farm or he would go around be a horse
and buggy and sell it. Um but okay, I love this.
So apparently many in New Jersey just never really took
(19:53):
to the new name of this tailor product, um, largely
because it was who long okay um And And so
here's the really fascinating thing. To shorten the name, People
in northern New Jersey started to call it taylor Ham,
while people in southern New Jersey went with pork roll
(20:15):
and the rest is history. Um. But I love this
because so many people were talking about like this in
this area, this needing to speak quickly or and condenced
things or shortened things, and I've just it makes me happy.
Oh um yeah yeah. Meanwhile, I guess um the tailor
(20:43):
provisions company UM ran several sandwich shops from like the
midds up through the nineteen eighties when they closed and
stopped selling directly to the public. They now only sell
through wholesale um Case and several other companies will sell
to the public. And I mentioned this partially because um,
(21:04):
there's like a minor kerfuffle among fans who do want
branded Taylor merchandise and can't get it because Taylor doesn't
produce it themselves and they own the copyright to the name.
So oh my gosh. Yeah. Uh it is indeed a
whole thing. Um. I mean, like like like more than
(21:28):
the debate, Like culturally, this food is a thing like
a Ween released a song. The band Ween released a
song called pork Roll, Eggs and Cheese, Yes Yes, And
the pork roll versus Taylor Ham debate was addressed in
the two thousand nine film New Jersey. The movie the
filmmaker who was the quote I used at the top
(21:49):
made a map using polls and by searching the menus
of Delis and the like to get a rough idea
of where exactly to divide falls. And you can find
this map. It's glorious. Pop It is glorious. But this
brings us to even more drama. We hinted at it.
The inaugural Trenton Pork Roll Festival drew four thousand attendees
(22:13):
and this was much more than anticipated. Um okay, So,
the owner of the restaurant that hosted the event, TC Nelson,
and the festival's producer, Scott Miller, disagreed about the future
of the festival after this first event. Right, so Miller
wanted to relocate to a larger space for the next festival.
(22:34):
And just funnily enough, um, a lot of articles I
read about this said he's not originally from New Jersey
but Trenton for a while. I'm not saying the other
It was just funny how many people brought it up.
Um Alright. Meanwhile, Nelson didn't want to move it from
his restaurant, so they went their separate ways, with Nelson
(22:58):
hosting a competing festival at his restaurant on the same
day the next year, which of course is the weekend
of National pork Roll Day. All right, Miller's lawyer sent
Nelson a cease and desist letter, mostly concerning marketing, and
(23:18):
so this turned what was originally an amicable competition into
not that into not that. Nelson said of Miller, he
wants to be the czar of pork roll in this town,
dictating who, when, where, and how a Trinton product can
be sold, marketed and celebrated. And he is a fool.
(23:40):
And then later later he said, I have a son.
When I'm done kicking Miller's ass at pork roll festivals,
my son will start kicking. Wow. I'm telling you a
generational grudge was born that day. Oh, this could be
like an interesting horror comedy movie. I think, um and
(24:03):
believe me, listeners. I was not anticipating this. Already knew
there was gonna be drama around the name. I didn't
know I was gonna have festival drama that wasn't necessarily
name based. And then Miller, when asked about all of this, said,
our pork Roll Festival has always been about peace, love
and pork role, and we hope that we can try
(24:23):
to reach that goal. Year after year, and no joke.
There are multiple articles written about this, comparing them. Um,
here's the quote from a Vice article about this rivalry.
It's blossomed into the purest definition of war. A minor
misunderstanding taken way too seriously. Oh my goodness. Um, and
(24:45):
based on some other things I read, it's been blown
out of proportion. I couldn't really get a handle on it.
Some people seem to suggest, like people just like fighting
about it. Yeah, like it's not really a deal. No,
one's really mad. And other people are like, now we're
kind of mad, and like, it's hard to tell how
much of that is joking. So reading the quotes, it
(25:06):
seemed pretty serious. But I guess I I don't know. Listeners, again,
if you have any experience, if you've been to one
or both of these festivals, Oh my gosh, yeah, I
we need to know, like the level of animosity that's
actually going on here, Yes, we need to know. Uh.
Then act set out to name the Taylor Ham egg
(25:29):
and cheese as New Jersey State sandwich. Uh. Minor correction.
The assemblyman who sponsored the bill actually introduced two bills
which were identical except for the terminology. Because Bill uh.
New Jersey Legislature bill number A three six six six
(25:52):
called the product pork roll and A three six six
seven called it Taylor Ham. Oh my gosh, oh, oh
my gosh. I couldn't find an update on this bill. Um.
I'm not sure whether either have passed. Um, but I mean,
(26:16):
if I don't think you could pass either one in
their current form, there would be riots. I don't know.
It does seem a bridge too far, maybe too hard
to cross. Yeah, it's it's really cool. Uh, very very
(26:41):
strange to me, but just lovely. I agree. I told
Lauren before, I was like frustrated by the amount of research,
which is a good thing to be frustrated about, but
I'm so endeared by it, so endeared. That's so many
people have written about this, and I loved like the
(27:04):
I don't know, you could just tell they were coming
from a place of of love and place in like
and like nostalgia and like pride and uh and just
just right just just joy and in a little bit
of bitterness. Yeah, but in a way that was really
fun or like cantankerousness, I guess, like, yeah, like it's
(27:27):
fun to fight about this one. I don't know it
was I really did enjoy the research on this, It was.
It was delight yes. Uh. And and we hope, we
sincerely hope that we haven't messed this up and that
no one mad at us. Oh my gosh. Yes, um,
(27:48):
and listeners who have written in about this, uh, yeah,
I hope we didn't let you down. Let us know
if we get anything wrong. You know, some of you
were writing from the perspective of being perplexible as well,
so but yeah, yeah, just this is such a one
we haven't experienced in such a distinct thing that we
would love to hear from all of you, which, speaking of,
(28:13):
I think we should close out before we get in
any more trouble. But we do have some listener mail
for you. We do, and we're going to get into
that right after we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
(28:34):
Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, We're back with m
It's a war battle sometimes internal. Yeah, the first episode
(28:54):
I've ever done where I was conscious of like what
word I was using? And yeah, what a time, not
for a minute, not for a minute, here we go. Yeah. Um.
First of all, thank you to everyone who wrote in
about your Halloween celebrations and with pictures of your pets
in costume. Thank you, we love them, please keep them coming.
(29:20):
Um And speaking of Keanna wrote, and I hope every time,
I hope I got it right. Happy Halloween. I had
my Halloween party on Saturday and did my annual family
photos today. Food this year was butterscotch caldron cake with
chocolate and butter scotch frosting. The witch's legs and brooms
(29:40):
were made of pretzels and candy melts, and the witch's
hat was candy melts, covering a lace cookie formed into
a hat shape, white chocolate, peanut butter skulls, brains made
of jello, marshmallows and popcorn. A handmade of goat cheese,
cream cheese, and ham. Pumpkin blondis cut into spooky shape
with cookie cutters, pumpkins, spice rice, crispy pumpkins which is
(30:04):
bruce stew with carrots shaped like pumpkins, and mushrooms shaped
like skulls. I also covered some leftover popcorn with leftover
candy melts to make some sort of purple spooky butt
porn thing. Onto the costumes. I made Fellowship of the
Ring cloaks for me and my kiddies. They were less
than impressed, as always, but I have some good photos
(30:27):
for our annual New Year's cars for family and friends.
And in response to the amused booh yes, more spooky
all the time. Uh, I mean that menu sounds fantastic
and fantastical. Holy had that is so much care and
(30:48):
preparation and oh that's really rad it is And the
pictures were amazing, Like I was like, how in the
world mushroom skulls and heart pumpkins And I saw the
pictures like, oh, yeah, wow, that's amazing, and the outfits
were I mean, just chef's kiss that was so good. Uh,
(31:14):
surly cats and costumes is one of my very favorite
categories of photographs, like on the planet cats and costumes. Yes, yeah, yes,
well it sounds like it was a great party, great food,
and I do love this. There's something about those kinds
of almost goofy spooky things where it's like it's so
(31:36):
interesting to me. They're like, yes, mushrooms, maybe skulls, mush
that look like skulls. Yes, fantastic absolutely oh. Um. Kelsey wrote,
you asked for horror Christmas foods and my house it's Halloween.
E's and beanies for the win uh with black beans,
(31:57):
the goth Lagoon for extras spookiness best enjoyed around a fire,
And of course, the roasted progeny of ritually sacrificed gourds
a k a. Pupkin seeds this year seasoned with tandori
massala unreasonably delicious. I need you to know how loud
(32:21):
I laughed when I first read the words goth legoomum
earlier today I gave fawd, Oh my heck is. And also,
I mean, if that's not a band or something, that's
gotta be a character. Oh the goth legoom goodness, you
(32:43):
can't wait. I can't wait. And that also sounds delicious.
Pumpkin seeds. I need to mix up my seasoning. I
use some pumpkin seeds kind of one thing I really like. No,
I need to fix it up. Don't be don't be
afraid to experiment with your roasted progeny of rich really
(33:06):
sacrificed chords. Again, I love this. I love how on
Halloween we're all like, let's come out with the goffy
puns or whatever. Yeah, even people who seem to dislike puns.
At other times of the year, like pretty into a
Halloween pun it's great and oh yeah, yeah you know,
(33:27):
and we we are the weirdos. Mr come on, yes, yes,
thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for these
listeners you're writing in. If you would like to write
to us, that you can. Our email is hello at
saber pod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod,
(33:48):
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our superproducer is Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
where good things are coming your way. H
Hello, and welcome to Sabor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm any Reason and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about pork roll and or
Taylor Ham. Don't yell at us. I feel I gonna
use them interchangeably. We are. I feel like even putting
one term before the other term was just controversial. Please
(00:29):
please don't come at us. We have no pork in
this race. Uh. We We love all of you and
your strong opinions. We genuinely do. And it was funny
that you say that because I originally called this outline
when I started it Taylor Ham. And then I noticed
throughout I was using pork roll more and I was like,
(00:51):
what if somebody gets ahold of this, and that's gonna
get out what I've done? Because drama listeners so much drama,
so much strong opinions. It is quite fun. Um and
shout out to our listeners, including but not limited to,
(01:12):
Matt Danielle, Tracy Howard. I think the email wasn't signed,
but that was the address, Um and Leon. So that's
already a handful of people have said, you've got to
talk about this. We've read their listener mails on the show. Um,
so we did it. We're here, yeah, here we are. Yes,
(01:33):
And I will say, um, I don't have any experience
with this one. Perhaps clearly. I'm actually very impressed at
how specifically regional this is, um, because there's a lot
of stuff that's like, oh, this is like a southern thing,
this is a Northeastern thing, like oh, man, like this
(01:55):
one's definitely from from the Pacific northwest. But but this
is so it's like New Jersey and parts of Pennsylvania
as far as I can tell. And that's it. There
are actual maps you can look up. It's amazing. Um.
And you don't have any experience with it either, right,
(02:18):
Not that I am personally aware of. Um. I did
live in Ohio and Pennsylvania for a time when I
was very young, but I was more in like in
like western Pennsylvania, and I think this is more like
an eastern Pennsylvania thing. So if I did have it
(02:39):
as a kid, I do not remember it, and I
do not believe I've encountered it as an adult. Okay, Okay,
so probably not. So we're flying we're both flying blind
on this one. We have only the extraordinarily extensive opinions
of the Internet to go off. Yes, And speaking of that, um,
(03:05):
I do want to say at the top, uh, I,
so we are coming out of Halloween weekend when we
when I was researching this, it was the Monday of Halloween,
so after Halloween weekend, and I was exhausted, so exhausted.
It's not even that I did too much, but it's
not more than I'm used to since the pandemic. And
(03:30):
I thought, surely, you know, this is a pretty regional thing.
I can I can knock this out. Not it won't
take too long to at least get the basics of
what it is. And it's the first time listeners that
I have fallen asleep at my laptop in years. And
the last thing I typed that I don't remember typing
(03:53):
was leave me b because I kept finding so much more,
probably opinion an article that I was like, I can
do anymore. I love it, I'm endeared by it. But
my goodness, Yeah, well, it's it's gonna be okay, Annie,
(04:16):
I think it's gonna be okay. We're just we're impartial
observers were here to report the facts such as they are.
Uh uh, And and that's yeah, that's all that we
can do. I think I think it's going to turn
(04:37):
out all right. I think so too. And like I said,
it is really fun. It just I got a good chuckle.
The next morning when I woke up, I was like,
oh no, I fell asleep on my laptop. Why did
I right leave me be Oh yeah, Taylor Ham No,
I'm excited. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah me too, me too.
(04:57):
Um and uh in in the first of many controversial
things that I'm going to say. Um, you can see
our scrapple and our spam episodes for like a little
bit more on similar American products. Yes, you are correct,
(05:18):
that is controversial, but at least you didn't say that
one another thing that you should never do, which if
you know, you know? Um? Okay. Also, National pork Roll
Day is May Tree. Okay, okay, okay, Well now I'm
(05:40):
nervous already. All right, here we go. Let's get to
our question. Let's do it. Let's do it. Taylor have
slash pork roll? What are they? Is it? Uh? Whatever
you call it? What we are talking about here today
(06:03):
is a pre cooked, processed pork product wherein the meat
has been blended, smooth and seasoned. Then pressed into a
loaf shaped like a like a round or a log,
and cured, smoked, and or otherwise cooked. It is mostly
a commercial product, and folks are secretive about their recipes
(06:24):
as well. They should be get it, y'all. Um. Anyway,
slices off of the round can be grittled up and
served with a breakfasts and on sandwiches, or chopped into
other dishes. I again have not had it, so I
am not speaking from personal experience, but I understand that
this is like a like a sausage, like like a
(06:45):
smooth type of sausage that's soft and salty, not like
too too fatty, but kind of fatty, um, a little smoky,
a little spiced um and cooks up with crisped edges. Uh,
sort of like a like a mile more to adela
without the chunks of fat or other mixings, or like
a stronger bologna um like like a like a smooth
(07:10):
porkine breakfast meat loaf. Yeah, y'all, y'all tell me it
sounds incredibly satisfying like that that combination of crisp edges
from from frying it up and and the softness of
the meat. It sounds really nice. I love how many
articles I've found started with essentially the same story of
(07:31):
like Dad in his robes on Christmas Day or something
kicking pork. So it sounds yeah, it sounds delicious. Please
let us know. Yeah, yeah, if you have, if you
have the poetry for us, then then then then please
right in. Um okay uh. There are two like main
(07:54):
producers of these products, both out of Trenton, New Jersey, um,
though a number of other producers local to the area
make it, and some of their plants are a little
bit more widespread. The logs or rolls tend to be
uh like five or six inches in diameter, often somewhere
around like fourteen centimeters, so yeah, um uh. As far
(08:16):
as I can tell, there are two main varieties of
of this product, um mild and tangy, and the only
real difference on the labels is that the tangy types
will list lactic acid starter culture as an ingredient, so
we can assume that the tangy nous comes from a
curing process in which friendly lactic acid bacteria are encouraged
(08:39):
to grow in the product, eating some of the sugars
that are added and pooping flavor bacteria. Uh. And yeah,
you guys, I have read a lot today about pork
roll and or Taylor ham um, and I cannot tell
you exactly how it is made. Uh. I can tell
(09:01):
you the products like Bologny and Mortidella are made by okay,
grinding meat super fine, mixing in some salt and maybe
some sugar and uh whatever spices you're using, and then
blending everything smooth. Um. Then you shape it into logs.
Sometimes you um you kind of pipe it into canvas
(09:22):
bags of the appropriate shape, at which point you can
um let them cure at cool temperatures and or smoke
them low and slow and or boil them. Um. Uh.
Some pork roll and or tailor ham products indeed are
sold in canvas bags of this type. You can also
buy it shrink wrapped in pre sliced rounds. It is
(09:45):
not shelf stable, um. It is a chilled deli or
like fridge case item, like like bacon or other breakfast
sausages or other processed meats. Yeah. One of the properties
of this stuff, um typically is that it will curl
up around the edges or cup like some pepperoni when
it's cooked. Um, when it's like pan fried. Once you've
(10:07):
gotten slices. Yeah, and that is that curling is considered undesirable,
so it's often cut either once or a few times
around the edges um, with the slits going inward towards
the center to prevent curling. Um. And from what I
understand this, a single cut might be called a pac
man and a multi cut might be called a fireman's badge.
(10:30):
But y'all, y'all tell me, I don't Oh wow, is
that something you can ask for? I guess I oh
my gosh, okay, yeah, please let us know. My my
dad used to cook fried bologna, which I know is
not the same thing. Don't yell at me. He would
always put four slits in it when he would do it.
(10:50):
So interesting. Yeah, okay, but right right. Um. It is
often served as a breakfast meat or popularly on breakfast sandwiches,
along with egg and cheese on either a Kaiser roll
or a bagel. Um. I've read that there's also a
(11:11):
divide about mustard versus ketchup being the appropriate condiment for this. Uh.
But yeah, I've read a number of other recipes. You
might like, chop some of this into um into a
stuffing for like for like mushrooms, um or or vegetables
of some kind. You might use it as a topping
for pastas or for pizza. Um, you might use it
(11:33):
in like cast roles or omelets or enchilada's something like that. Yeah. Yes,
there are so many recipes that you said. Um, and
also listeners, please please write in about this mustard versus
ketchup thing, because I saw a lot of abbreviations, which
is kind of why we arrived at this whole name
(11:54):
the debate in the first place. But that I saw,
um that we're for like with catchup or without, So
please let us let us know about that too. Yeah,
oh my goodness. Yes, Well what about the nutrition. Uh,
this is a calorically dense food. Um, high and fat
(12:16):
and high and saturated fat, lots of sodium, also lots
of protein. Um. It will help keep you going, but
to fill you up and to get some you know,
important micronutrients in there. Um, pair it with a starch,
eat a vegetable hydrate, you know, all the important things
I'd like to talk about. Uh, we do have some
(12:39):
numbers for you. Yes, okay, So, as mentioned, this is
a in some ways surprisingly localized thing. At least half
a dozen companies in New Jersey produced the meat needed
for pork rolls. But that's like where the bulk of
it is. Yeah, yeah, Um. The park roll appreciation page
(13:02):
on Facebook has over forty six thousand followers, and I
think that number was a little old. So no, yeah,
oh my gosh. And we're going to talk. Yeah, we
are in the history section. But New Jersey holds an
annual pork roll festival, but more than one, there are
(13:24):
rival festivals on the same weekend. New Jersey um okay
uh Rutgers Eagleton did a poll in They pulled up
forty three phone respondents, and this poll revealed that percent
(13:47):
of overall residents of New Jersey call it a park roll,
call it Taylor ham H two used the names interchangeably,
don't use either term, aren't really sure what they call it? Okay, okay,
all right. However, furthermore, there is a strong North South
(14:12):
Jersey divide um of North Jersey ears use the term
tailor ham of South Jersey ears use park roll. Yes, okay.
And furthermore, it is more divisive the longer you've lived there. Uh.
(14:34):
People who have always lived in the state of them
have a strong opinion one way or another. Oh my gosh,
it's fantastic. And I read that it was like a
great indicator of like, oh, they're probably phone, they're probably
oh yeah, Oh my gosh, I love it. I love it.
I love it. Um. Here's a quote from a New
(14:56):
Jersey in who are actually going to talk about more
in the history part, who has asked about the great
name debate on in ja dot com or New Jersey
dot com. Quote, Our identities often revolve around Philadelphia or
New York City. Taylor hand versus pork roll is something
that is solely ours. That's why we will forever fight
about it. Oh how wonderful. I know, I know. And
(15:24):
we have so many more debates, fights, drama we do,
we do uh, And we are going to get into that.
But first we're going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsors. And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
(15:48):
thank you. So we haven't done a sandwich episode unless
I am massively forgetting, and I don't think I would know.
We have not done that. I've been avoiding it. I've
guy have as well. And this is not that episode. No, no,
this is not also an episode about sausage. No, no,
also no, uh, but in the loosest sense of fillings
(16:14):
encased by something for convenience in transportation, whether it's sandwich
or sausage. People have been eating sandwiches and roll like things,
especially with salted and cured meat, because they last, um
for a long time. And we've talked about it multiple episodes. Yes, um,
(16:38):
there are anecdotal records of Union soldiers transporting what we're
essentially Taylor ham slash pork rolls. Oh, I'm so nervous
during the Civil War, and other sources suggest that perhaps
we can chase the history of this item to the
Revolutionary War, when soldiers carried these roles of salted cured
(16:59):
ham around. Um. However, pork roll enthusiasts generally accept eighteen
fifty six as the year it went official. Alright, alright,
it's been a long time since I felt like I
was on such a tight rope in one of these episodes.
(17:20):
According to one of the current and most well known
manufacturers of this product, which we mentioned, Taylor Provisions of
Trenton Um. They are the originator of the Taylor ham
and originally there's still a leftover slashing here for pork roll,
which I guess I should have left in, but they
perfore they prefer a specific term. They have said it
(17:45):
was us um. So they like to say the credit
goes to them because the company made John Taylor's quote
Original Taylor pork Roll, which they say is the official name.
But that has not always been the case. Okay. So
the story they and other folks like to tell is
that a New Jersey senator and well known businessman named
(18:06):
John Taylor created the first pork roll as we know
them today ish um cured meat with spices, preservatives, and
a sugar cure, smoked, and package rolled up in a
cloth sack for easier transporting and slicing. And this was
specifically a business decision to set it apart from other
(18:26):
popular sausages and meats that were available at the time. Um,
and he called it Taylor's preferred ham. Uh. He later
had to drop the ham from the name in nineteen
o six when the newly established Food and Drug Act
declared that the product didn't meet the definition of ham. Okay, yeah,
(18:47):
so he rebranded as Original Taylor pork roll, and he
did his best to secure a patent for pork roll
to discourage competitors from using the name, but he never
managed it. You can find some interesting like official documents
about it. His biggest foe was the Case brand, and
(19:10):
this has been a battle of the ages tailor provisions.
The company name as of nineteen thirty nine versus the
Case Pork Company, which was later rebranded as the Case
Pork Role Company. And that's one of the big like
which one do you prefer? Arguments is still going on. Um.
So Case got its start in eighteen seventy. It was
(19:30):
founded by a farmer named George Washington Case, and his
original product used hickory smoked pork from his farm. It
was first sold in corn husts. Uh yeah, either at
the farm or he would go around be a horse
and buggy and sell it. Um but okay, I love this.
So apparently many in New Jersey just never really took
(19:53):
to the new name of this tailor product, um, largely
because it was who long okay um And And so
here's the really fascinating thing. To shorten the name, People
in northern New Jersey started to call it taylor Ham,
while people in southern New Jersey went with pork roll
(20:15):
and the rest is history. Um. But I love this
because so many people were talking about like this in
this area, this needing to speak quickly or and condenced
things or shortened things, and I've just it makes me happy.
Oh um yeah yeah. Meanwhile, I guess um the tailor
(20:43):
provisions company UM ran several sandwich shops from like the
midds up through the nineteen eighties when they closed and
stopped selling directly to the public. They now only sell
through wholesale um Case and several other companies will sell
to the public. And I mentioned this partially because um,
(21:04):
there's like a minor kerfuffle among fans who do want
branded Taylor merchandise and can't get it because Taylor doesn't
produce it themselves and they own the copyright to the name.
So oh my gosh. Yeah. Uh it is indeed a
whole thing. Um. I mean, like like like more than
(21:28):
the debate, Like culturally, this food is a thing like
a Ween released a song. The band Ween released a
song called pork Roll, Eggs and Cheese, Yes Yes, And
the pork roll versus Taylor Ham debate was addressed in
the two thousand nine film New Jersey. The movie the
filmmaker who was the quote I used at the top
(21:49):
made a map using polls and by searching the menus
of Delis and the like to get a rough idea
of where exactly to divide falls. And you can find
this map. It's glorious. Pop It is glorious. But this
brings us to even more drama. We hinted at it.
The inaugural Trenton Pork Roll Festival drew four thousand attendees
(22:13):
and this was much more than anticipated. Um okay, So,
the owner of the restaurant that hosted the event, TC Nelson,
and the festival's producer, Scott Miller, disagreed about the future
of the festival after this first event. Right, so Miller
wanted to relocate to a larger space for the next festival.
(22:34):
And just funnily enough, um, a lot of articles I
read about this said he's not originally from New Jersey
but Trenton for a while. I'm not saying the other
It was just funny how many people brought it up.
Um Alright. Meanwhile, Nelson didn't want to move it from
his restaurant, so they went their separate ways, with Nelson
(22:58):
hosting a competing festival at his restaurant on the same
day the next year, which of course is the weekend
of National pork Roll Day. All right, Miller's lawyer sent
Nelson a cease and desist letter, mostly concerning marketing, and
(23:18):
so this turned what was originally an amicable competition into
not that into not that. Nelson said of Miller, he
wants to be the czar of pork roll in this town,
dictating who, when, where, and how a Trinton product can
be sold, marketed and celebrated. And he is a fool.
(23:40):
And then later later he said, I have a son.
When I'm done kicking Miller's ass at pork roll festivals,
my son will start kicking. Wow. I'm telling you a
generational grudge was born that day. Oh, this could be
like an interesting horror comedy movie. I think, um and
(24:03):
believe me, listeners. I was not anticipating this. Already knew
there was gonna be drama around the name. I didn't
know I was gonna have festival drama that wasn't necessarily
name based. And then Miller, when asked about all of this, said,
our pork Roll Festival has always been about peace, love
and pork role, and we hope that we can try
(24:23):
to reach that goal. Year after year, and no joke.
There are multiple articles written about this, comparing them. Um,
here's the quote from a Vice article about this rivalry.
It's blossomed into the purest definition of war. A minor
misunderstanding taken way too seriously. Oh my goodness. Um, and
(24:45):
based on some other things I read, it's been blown
out of proportion. I couldn't really get a handle on it.
Some people seem to suggest, like people just like fighting
about it. Yeah, like it's not really a deal. No,
one's really mad. And other people are like, now we're
kind of mad, and like, it's hard to tell how
much of that is joking. So reading the quotes, it
(25:06):
seemed pretty serious. But I guess I I don't know. Listeners, again,
if you have any experience, if you've been to one
or both of these festivals, Oh my gosh, yeah, I
we need to know, like the level of animosity that's
actually going on here, Yes, we need to know. Uh.
Then act set out to name the Taylor Ham egg
(25:29):
and cheese as New Jersey State sandwich. Uh. Minor correction.
The assemblyman who sponsored the bill actually introduced two bills
which were identical except for the terminology. Because Bill uh.
New Jersey Legislature bill number A three six six six
(25:52):
called the product pork roll and A three six six
seven called it Taylor Ham. Oh my gosh, oh, oh
my gosh. I couldn't find an update on this bill. Um.
I'm not sure whether either have passed. Um, but I mean,
(26:16):
if I don't think you could pass either one in
their current form, there would be riots. I don't know.
It does seem a bridge too far, maybe too hard
to cross. Yeah, it's it's really cool. Uh, very very
(26:41):
strange to me, but just lovely. I agree. I told
Lauren before, I was like frustrated by the amount of research,
which is a good thing to be frustrated about, but
I'm so endeared by it, so endeared. That's so many
people have written about this, and I loved like the
(27:04):
I don't know, you could just tell they were coming
from a place of of love and place in like
and like nostalgia and like pride and uh and just
just right just just joy and in a little bit
of bitterness. Yeah, but in a way that was really
fun or like cantankerousness, I guess, like, yeah, like it's
(27:27):
fun to fight about this one. I don't know it
was I really did enjoy the research on this, It was.
It was delight yes. Uh. And and we hope, we
sincerely hope that we haven't messed this up and that
no one mad at us. Oh my gosh. Yes, um,
(27:48):
and listeners who have written in about this, uh, yeah,
I hope we didn't let you down. Let us know
if we get anything wrong. You know, some of you
were writing from the perspective of being perplexible as well,
so but yeah, yeah, just this is such a one
we haven't experienced in such a distinct thing that we
would love to hear from all of you, which, speaking of,
(28:13):
I think we should close out before we get in
any more trouble. But we do have some listener mail
for you. We do, and we're going to get into
that right after we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
(28:34):
Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, We're back with m
It's a war battle sometimes internal. Yeah, the first episode
(28:54):
I've ever done where I was conscious of like what
word I was using? And yeah, what a time, not
for a minute, not for a minute, here we go. Yeah. Um.
First of all, thank you to everyone who wrote in
about your Halloween celebrations and with pictures of your pets
in costume. Thank you, we love them, please keep them coming.
(29:20):
Um And speaking of Keanna wrote, and I hope every time,
I hope I got it right. Happy Halloween. I had
my Halloween party on Saturday and did my annual family
photos today. Food this year was butterscotch caldron cake with
chocolate and butter scotch frosting. The witch's legs and brooms
(29:40):
were made of pretzels and candy melts, and the witch's
hat was candy melts, covering a lace cookie formed into
a hat shape, white chocolate, peanut butter skulls, brains made
of jello, marshmallows and popcorn. A handmade of goat cheese,
cream cheese, and ham. Pumpkin blondis cut into spooky shape
with cookie cutters, pumpkins, spice rice, crispy pumpkins which is
(30:04):
bruce stew with carrots shaped like pumpkins, and mushrooms shaped
like skulls. I also covered some leftover popcorn with leftover
candy melts to make some sort of purple spooky butt
porn thing. Onto the costumes. I made Fellowship of the
Ring cloaks for me and my kiddies. They were less
than impressed, as always, but I have some good photos
(30:27):
for our annual New Year's cars for family and friends.
And in response to the amused booh yes, more spooky
all the time. Uh, I mean that menu sounds fantastic
and fantastical. Holy had that is so much care and
(30:48):
preparation and oh that's really rad it is And the
pictures were amazing, Like I was like, how in the
world mushroom skulls and heart pumpkins And I saw the
pictures like, oh, yeah, wow, that's amazing, and the outfits
were I mean, just chef's kiss that was so good. Uh,
(31:14):
surly cats and costumes is one of my very favorite
categories of photographs, like on the planet cats and costumes. Yes, yeah, yes,
well it sounds like it was a great party, great food,
and I do love this. There's something about those kinds
of almost goofy spooky things where it's like it's so
(31:36):
interesting to me. They're like, yes, mushrooms, maybe skulls, mush
that look like skulls. Yes, fantastic absolutely oh. Um. Kelsey wrote,
you asked for horror Christmas foods and my house it's Halloween.
E's and beanies for the win uh with black beans,
(31:57):
the goth Lagoon for extras spookiness best enjoyed around a fire,
And of course, the roasted progeny of ritually sacrificed gourds
a k a. Pupkin seeds this year seasoned with tandori
massala unreasonably delicious. I need you to know how loud
(32:21):
I laughed when I first read the words goth legoomum
earlier today I gave fawd, Oh my heck is. And also,
I mean, if that's not a band or something, that's
gotta be a character. Oh the goth legoom goodness, you
(32:43):
can't wait. I can't wait. And that also sounds delicious.
Pumpkin seeds. I need to mix up my seasoning. I
use some pumpkin seeds kind of one thing I really like. No,
I need to fix it up. Don't be don't be
afraid to experiment with your roasted progeny of rich really
(33:06):
sacrificed chords. Again, I love this. I love how on
Halloween we're all like, let's come out with the goffy
puns or whatever. Yeah, even people who seem to dislike puns.
At other times of the year, like pretty into a
Halloween pun it's great and oh yeah, yeah you know,
(33:27):
and we we are the weirdos. Mr come on, yes, yes,
thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for these
listeners you're writing in. If you would like to write
to us, that you can. Our email is hello at
saber pod dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at savor pod,
(33:48):
and we do hope to hear from you. Savor is
a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts my Heart Radio,
you can visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
always to our superproducer is Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
where good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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