July 14, 2021 • 31 mins
This fish/seafood soup/stew, made famous by Marseille, sees a lot of iterations throughout the city and beyond. Anney and Lauren dip into the history and culture behind bouillabaisse (and rouille).
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we
have an episode for you about William Bass. Yeah, some
more fun with pronunciation French. You know, we all love it.
I feel like every time we try to do a
what they call in the biz a tent pole event.
(00:32):
Today is bestial Day, we always for some reason get delayed.
And so we're recording this day of yeah, like this morning.
Uh yeah, yeah, so we'll see if it comes out
in time. But that just cracks me up. I feel
like every time we actually try for some reason to
delay yeah, curse, that's fine, it's you know, it's round about.
(00:59):
It's with an acceptable margin. Bestial day. Yes. Um, Well,
I don't think I've ever had bully a Bass. Oh No,
I don't know. I feel like I it's hard for
(01:19):
me to believe I haven't. Um. I feel like maybe
I had the San Francisco kind of similar dish, which
I can never remember to say. Um. The first I
ever heard of it was in Harry Potter, so that
must have been two thousand three. Apparently it was also
described in a Jane Austin book and I haven't read
Jane Austen, but I think it was described, but it
(01:41):
wasn't given the name, but essentially what was being described
was bully a base. Yeah, but I don't think I've
had it. I I've definitely had americanized versions that have
had shellfish scandal. Oh okay, I'm waiting for your explanation
(02:04):
of what it is. Uh, it's it was? Oh it's lovely.
I mean like it's it's it's fish soup. I like fish,
I like soup. I want you know, I want all
those things, you know, So I will I will say
that seafood is is definitely my favorite type of protein,
and so if I see it on a menu, it
(02:26):
is likely that that is what I am ordering. And
so yeah, yeah, I probably suffered from a lack of
from the name. I couldn't tell you what it was,
so I didn't bother to investigate further. Now that makes
me really sad, because I too love seafood and soup,
so I'm sure I would probably love it maybe someday.
(02:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay, So we we need to
take we we definitely need to take a field trip
to the south of France and we can combine that
with are much awaited champagne trip. Yeah, I'll just go
to France for a few months. It's just you know,
I'm sure the boss will check off on that with
(03:12):
no questions asked. Are we just go you know, don't
ask for permission to apologize later or whatever that's saying.
I mean, hey, we've got these, we've got these relatively
portable microphone rigs. We can podcast from France. That's true.
No one has to know until the bill comes in.
Then there might be some questions. Yep. Yes, well, maybe
(03:39):
we could plan it around December four, which is National
Bullio based Day, which kind of cracks me up because
from what I understand, this is a US based holiday.
But hey like bullion Base here too, you can see
our past episode on saffron and tomatoes, which sometimes come
into play in this dish. Mm hmm, yes, but I
(04:01):
guess that brings us to our question Bollia base What
is it? Well? Uh, Billiam base is a sunny, summary
brothy soup or stew dish, rich with seafood and a
usually a little bit of potato, and bright and earthy
with veg and herbs and spices like onion, tomato, fennel, saffron, orange, zest, parsley, thyme,
(04:27):
and bay um and and the idea is to cook
down a lovely broth with all of those aromatics plus
probably some fish bones or like prepared stock, plus some
olive oil, then strain um in or blended, then add
sliced potatoes and the seafood towards the end just enough
to cook it through um. Depending on the recipe, the
(04:49):
broth can be almost more like a sauce for the
seafood um to be sopped up with bread instead of
a spooned or sipped And the olive oil is an
interesting ingredient because it suffies and makes the soup creamy
without adding the weight of dairy. So the seafood that
goes into it is traditionally like a like a firm whitefish.
(05:12):
The dish originated in or perhaps has been adopted by Marseilles,
a port city in southern France, and what they traditionally
say needs to go in to bully base is at
least four of six types of fish um, including local
things like monkfish and conger eel um, but probably definitely
(05:33):
red scorpion fish. That's that's critical. Yeah, it's it's a
type of rockfish. I have no experience with it. But
but yeah, folks add all kinds of things. Um, you know,
similar types of fish from local catches. Uh, you know whatever,
your local species of rockfish or maybe a red snapper
or halibut or grouper, but also lobster, crab, clams, muscles, scallops, shrimp. Oh,
(06:01):
I am getting more controversial to further down that list.
I go. I can hear it in your voice. I've
got I've got my hands up in the defense of gesture. Again,
I'm like, I'm only reporting. I'm only reporting what I
what I read, Okay, not recommending, only reporting. Uh yeah,
(06:23):
because because like uh like many like like comforting regional dishes,
there are disagreements about what makes a proper blie basse um.
Do you remove the veg entirely or do you curate
into the broth? What seasonings go in the broth? Is
wine and or perno or pastis appropriate or necessary to
(06:45):
the broth? Does orange, zest and or peel belonging there
at all? This sounds so deep and intense, The question
keep anny, think believe us, darn you frenchy kind of
(07:07):
the existential food questions. Yeah, I have often on this show. Yeah,
and you know, I think, I think at the end
of the day you have these are questions you have
to ask yourself. We cannot answer them for you. But
in any case, um it's usually served by scooping out
some of that just cooked through seafood and laying it
out on a on a tray or tureen, and then
(07:28):
ladling the broth over it um and then with lots
of crusty toasted bread and as a garnish for both
the bread and the broth. There's a thick, creamy type
of sauce or spread called ruy um and ruy gets
its name from its rusty red color, which comes from
the saffron and ground chilies or sometimes sweet peppers that
(07:49):
are used to make it um. It's a It's thickened
with powdered bread crumbs or potato starch and can be
made with either just a multified olive oil or with
oil plus egg yolks like a like a mayonnaise. It's
also seasoned with raw garlic, so it's got this really nice, warm, spicy,
earthy kick to it. Um. A simple a oli, which
(08:11):
is mayo with garlic can also be used. But yeah,
sometimes a blowy bass is served as a sort of
like two course meal, the first just the soup plus bread,
and then the fish plus the soup. Mm hmm, I've
heard it's it can be kind of the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, um,
(08:35):
it's definitely, I mean, you know, it's it's usually like
uh in in Marseille. I've I've come to understand they
will serve it by like you know, cooking everything in
the back and then coming and presenting you table side
with the fish, with like whole fish, just to prove
what kinds of fish are going into it, and then
(08:57):
either filet a table side or whisk the fish back
into the kitchen and then present you with a platter.
And yeah, the broth gets poured in. It's a whole thing.
Sometimes you float the bread, the toasted bread, on top
of the broth. It seems great, it seems great. I
did not have that fancy of an experience. Mine came
in a bowl and I ate it. That was also delightful.
(09:23):
How very basic, Laura, And there there are all kinds
of riffs on on the dish as well, like especially
in the tourist districts um in Marseille. Uh like like
I've read about like fish filet sandwiches that are served
with a with a cup of broth on the side.
Uh yeah, or like a like a three course bully
(09:46):
Base experience with with a course of raw shellfish and
then bites of fish and a light broth and then
a heavier soup with crabs. Basic spirit. It's a magic show.
I want to go to you right, I'm already I
(10:07):
can picture it now. Um what about the nutrition? Um
base is really pretty good for you. You know, lots
of lean protein, lots of vitamins and minerals. I mean,
you know, I'd say, like, don't use it as an
excuse to eat like an entire loaf of bread perhaps, um,
But or do and that's a treat and that's nice.
(10:28):
Uh but yeah, yeah, it depends on how you make it.
Watch your portion sizes, eat a vegetable. It is funny
with these. I I can do that all the time
with soups or any kind of thing where it's like
you use some usually bread like implement to eat it.
I'm a fast I'm not a fast eater, but I
like you can be a fast eater. My dude, I
can be. Generally I'm not, but I can be, and
(10:51):
so i'll It's just I need more bread to eat
the soup the next thing. I know. Yeah, a whole
loaf of bread been used. Actually there's still some soup
less super left. Yeah, yeah, I have to. I have
to paste my bread. It's all about skill really and control.
But skill. I don't want to eat any of bread
(11:16):
without soup. Yeah, that would be ridiculous, that would be
But I do want a lot of bread with every bite.
This only makes sense. It's a balancing act. We do
have some numbers for you. We do so. Marseilles, where
this dish yes allegedly hails from and where it is
(11:37):
arguably the most popular, has a population of about one million.
And this matters because of some of the requirements around
what makes Bulliya base Bullia base, which we'll get into.
We've already gone over some of them. But there was
a whole another whole thing that happened, especially in terms
of fish, doesn't match up with the amount caught and
(11:58):
the amount of bullya base eaten there. Yeah, I've read that.
It's it's not really a thing that locals would order
in a restaurant. Um, but because it is so well
known in that area by tourists, Like a single restaurant
might go through two tons of ficial week during the
tourist season in the summer, and and it can it
(12:21):
can get pricey depending on what types. It's a it's
a labor intensive dish to prepare. You know, you're you're
you're making the soup and then you're adding all of
these all of this lovely fresh seafood. Um. So some
of the fancy versions in Marseille restaurants can run you
like seventy five bucks to like two and fifty for
for a meal. Bang, that's the experience, Yeah, that one,
(12:48):
that that latter one is definitely on the experience side. Yes,
um A Julie Child said of the dish in v
on her show The French Chef. I always feel that
part of Marseille itself is cooked right into the bullyo base.
You can somehow just taste the flavor, the color, the
excitement of that old port. Oh that's lovely. I should
(13:14):
expect no less of Julia Child, but I do love
that when you taste something and it just brings you
right to a place. Yes, yes, And we do have
a lot to say about the history of that place.
We do, but first we've got a quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
(13:41):
thank you. So. In its humble beginnings, bullyo base was
simply boiled fish. Um. How the story goes after that
very hotly debated, especially in Marseille, where the people claim
it is, yes, an invention of theirs. Some say a
(14:02):
fisherman used some of his cash to boil up a
fish soup while at sea. Others say it was a
dish of necessity, something to use up on sold fish.
It was originally called we a basso or boil lower
in Provencel, which makes sense yeah, um and maybe uh there.
(14:23):
There are at least four origin stories for the name.
A popular one is that it's a corruption a bullyear
to boil and pays fish. Bully pays bully a base.
I don't know, but it seems more likely that it
comes from um, from right, from from a from bullion
a base like broth reduced anyway, anyway. The name for
(14:49):
this dish first appeared in the French language about two
hundred years ago, and in the words of acclaimed food
writer Clifford Right. One of the earliest uses the word
bulliya base was in the eighteen thirties as a term
expressing the rapidity of the cooking stin Hall mentioned bullya bases,
perhaps referring to a fish stew in his Travels from
(15:10):
eighteen o six. But the famous French chef Raymond Olive,
writing in The Gastronomy of France, makes some extraordinary claims
about bullya base. He tells us that it is first
mentioned in a dictionary from seventive, that its heritage is
Venetian via Greek Sicily, and that the rules for the
making a bullia base were laid down in the sixteenth century.
None of this is supported by any evidence, but in
(15:32):
any case, I agree with this estimation that in bulliya base,
it is essential to retain all the delicacy of the fish,
and never to debase through too much zeal. A symphony
of taste, which is so hard to achieve, A symphony
of taste that's excellent, never debased through too much zeal.
(15:53):
Taste it's so hard to achieve. Gosh it is. It is,
according to some sources, the ancestor of bullion base, because
all the way back to six b C. In ancient Greece,
which Marseille was a Greek colony at the time. It
may have also appeared in Roman mythology when Venus fed
(16:15):
a similar soup to Vulcan in order to get him
to fall asleep so she could go fool around with
mars Um. And Yeah, many ancient writings described to boiled
fish soup. Again, this is something that just makes sense
to me for folks in your water that yeah, why
not make that? Yeah again, people like to get very
particular about the exact definition of bulliad base, which makes
(16:38):
the history very fun. M there you go. Um, going
back to that fisherman theory. Uh, they would put their
catch in boiling water and then lower the temperature in
order to poach it. This was described in an early
provinceal poem by es Cremazy. Never put oil in bullya
base water norishes the fish, but oil destroy it. But yeah,
(17:02):
like you're saying, Lauren, people are you as they like
to do that oil is key in making the broth,
or that the lower in the name actually refers to
the reduction of broth before adding in the fish to
achieve a stronger flavor. An Italian recipe from the fifteenth
century closely resembles bulli base apart from the oily fish use,
so that's generally from what I understand. And no, no,
(17:24):
but this recipe used to use things like salmon and anchovies.
So okay, yeah, all right, yeah, some recipes labeled bullyo
base in a classical provinceal cuisine didn't use fish at all. Um.
There was one called blind bully Base that incorporated eggs
instead of the fish, another that added spinach in there.
(17:48):
I don't know whoa This feels like the kale gumbo debate,
and I don't even know much about bullion base. I
feel like that would rubble some feathers. Oh yeah, at
any rate. By the late seventeen hundreds, bully bass was
being served in French restaurants, which were new at the
time and had come out of the French Revolution, both
(18:11):
um putting chefs who had been working for the aristocracy
out of jobs and and also um ending the guild
system um, which had kept the trade of cookery to
like a select few. Um. You can see our early
episode on French cuisine for more about all of that. Yes,
and bullio base changed as hawk cuisine in France coalest,
(18:35):
with chefs adding in the fish after they prepared the soup.
This also marked bullion base becoming a food of the bourgeoisie,
as opposed to kind of widespread popular food. It was
prior just something everyday people. Eight. Yes, a recipe out
of the eighteen thirties called for both sea bass and
spiny lobster, both of which we're pricey at the time.
(18:55):
So in eighteen seventy three Alexandra Duma featured it in
his work La Grand Dictioneer de la Cuisine. Then chef
Jean Baptiste Raboul's recipe, first put into writing in his
seven book La Cuisine provincel became. This recipe became the
standard recipe until the twentieth century. It called for boiling
(19:18):
whole small rock fish, um, seaving them and straining them. Apparently,
some restaurants live in fear of being sued after a
customer chokes on a fishbone. Yeah, I guess, like I guess,
that makes yeah not fair. Yes. While this recipe was
the go to the eighteen hundreds is also when folks
(19:39):
started really experimenting with ingredients, or at least when the
written record reflects that adding in things like potatoes, celery,
onions and tomatoes that would have been round about when um,
when tomatoes were we're being more widely incorporated into French cuisine.
I think that they had been used in southern France
before other areas. But yeah, yes, I fondly remember our
(20:07):
episode on tomatoes and how a lot of especially rich
people in Europe were like, these are poisonous and might
turn you into werewolves. So I had questions about that
as well. But after the First World War, the guy
behind popularizing France gastro tourism at the time the Prince
of Gastronomes cure Nat sky Um, and I looked this
(20:27):
fellow up because I was like one name only, what's
this about? And very interesting dude, And that was like
his pen name Um called bullyo base the soup of
Gold for the color due to saffron and or the
complex flavor, which is just a great nickname to have.
Both are good Prince of Gastronomes and Soup of gold,
the nicknames all around. Mm hmm. With the dawn of
(20:50):
the twentieth century, less than honorable restaurateurs in Marseille looking
to screw unwitting tourists started serving cheap, low quality versions
of Bulliyo base. This in turn led to a lowering
of opinion around the dish, which yes, was associated with
this area. It was a point of pride and it
was something tourists, We're coming to try um, and then
(21:10):
they're getting this lower quality version, lowering the opinion. So
this led to a group of restaurateurs in the area
coming together in to preserve and boost this dishes reputation.
They created a set of specifications for Bullia base, including
the fish that should be used, dictating that it should
(21:31):
be at least four UM and they also suggested that
the fish in question should be presented and filate at
the table, so consumers knew what they were getting. Do
you find it interesting because that's like the same time
um Gelato went through a similar yeah thing. But yeah,
I I'm a very suspicious person, but I also don't
(21:53):
really have a lot of know how when it goes
to the Yeah. Yeah, you could show me literally any
fish and I would be like, cool that a fish. Yeah.
The first time I ordered a bottle of wine at
a fancy restaurant, they put it out, they did the
whole thing, and then they like, uncorked it and I
just took the cork and smelled it. Was like, is
(22:13):
it the cheapest one you have? They're like, oh, they
totally colocked me. Yeah, They're like, yes, ma'am. Then it's great,
relatively inexpensive, miss I'll take it. And it was delicious. Um.
But Julia Child raised awareness around bulie base in America
(22:37):
when she included a recipe for it in her n
work The French Chef Cookbook. Before that, a lot of
average Americans perhaps had not heard of it. And then
here's this lovely, bright dish that Julia Child is very
happy to share. Extremely happy, happy as only Julia could be. Um, yeah, yeah,
(23:02):
I I love it. I love it when we do
episodes where I wind up with a craving for a
thing that I haven't ever really even experienced. Yep, same
feeling it. Um, but I have an idea in my
head and the idea tastes lovely. But hopefully we can
(23:26):
rectify this, Lauren. I feel like we say that the
end of every episode and it happens. Maybe maybe yeah, well,
you know, as as we as we start getting getting
back into travel, maybe maybe our our rate will go up.
We'll see what happens to those numbers. Yeah. Yeah, In
the meantime, I guess that's what we have to say
(23:47):
about Believe Base. For now it is. We do have
some listener mail for you. We do, but first we
have one more cup for word from our sponsor, and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with bright and summary. Yeah musical. Stacy wrote, I
(24:19):
am behind my podcast listening, so I just hurt the
Mac and Cheese episode. I have to share some of
my loves with this food. I live in Sacramento and
we have a great farmer's market. One Bendor is a
dairy from oh No, Petaluma. I hope I didn't butcher
that um spring Hill cheese, look them up. I love
mac and cheese with their smoked firehouse cheddar divine, and
(24:43):
to kick it up a notch, I also stir in
some goat cheese. You kind of made fun of mac
and cheese for breakfast, so I must defend it vigorously.
I make breakfast mac and it is wildly popular in
our home. I chopped up bacon and stir that into
the mac and cheese, not firehouse and away, then top
it with an over easy egg. When you cut into
the egg, the yolk mixes with the cheese sauce to
(25:05):
make it even more rich and magical. Then I've added
bread crumbs with garlic and choose one either garlic red
pepper flakes, time or stage. It's truly delightful. I hope
you can try it. Speaking of bacon, have you done
a bacon episode? I've begun curing and smoking my own
bacon game changer. We went through forty pounds of Portfoliate
(25:26):
Christmas as we gave out one point five pound packs
of homemade bacon. Asked Christmas gifts by stirring that into
my breakfast mac and cheese and garlic bread crumbs and
an over easy egg. Yes, please, yes, please do all yes, yes,
oh and okay, so so so I feel I feel
(25:47):
a little defensive and I and so I want to
say that that the type of breakfast mac and cheese
that we were making fun of was just like the
cup of like Kraft mac and cheese being sold as
a breakfast food. Yes we I'm whatever you want your
mac and cheese. I want you to have it then yeah, yes,
(26:11):
and I mean and even and even the craft microwavable cup.
Do it? Do it? I approve? Yeah, add bacon or
hot sauce or I love it good. If that sounds amazing,
it really does. I've never I've never, I've never cured
or smoked anything. Um, but that sounds like such a
(26:33):
lovely thing to do. We did. We did do a
bacon episode. We did a bacon episode. Um, I just
looked it up. I do not know this off the
top of my head. In April. Yes, so you can
see that that might be specifically the one we talk
about breakfast at least in part because we did a
breakfast episode, but we talked about kind of the marketing
(26:55):
behind breakfast foods and that yeah, yeah, well bake bacon
right was was one of the big ones, um that
the good old Eddie Burnet's got into. So we're on
a we're in a first name basis. Guy, I knew it,
um uh j D wrote, I was listening to your
(27:17):
Pimento cheese episode when you mentioned your confusion about UF
having pepsi products on campus, and there's an interesting reason
for it. Gatorade. I'm a fellow Gator B A O
three and M A fifteen and I grew up going
to football games in Gainesville, Florida previously had Coca Cola
products on campus, but that changed while I was a
student when Pepsi bought Quaker Oats in two thousand one.
(27:39):
Quaker was the owner of Gatorade after purchasing Stokely Van
Camp Incorporated in SPC had been the manufacturer of Gatorade
since entering into an agreement with the University of Florida
Professor Dr. Robert Cade following the nineteen sixty nine Orange Bowl.
The university, which receives twenty present royalties on Gatorade sales,
(28:02):
obviously wants to keep ties to its most famous invention.
Apparently Coca Cola was okay with this even after they
created a competing product, the vastly inferior Power Aid, but
once it was acquired by a direct competitor, I assume
either Coke, Pepsi, or both had a problem continuing the arrangement.
I don't recall whether the change was immediate, but by
(28:23):
my senior year it had been completed. I have so
many things to say. I love when there's a a
topic where I like, don't drink, for instance, but I
have strong opinions about it. Ad um. And also I
went to Georgia Deck and like, I wasn't really into
(28:45):
school spirit, but you were our enemies. Oh oh sun,
my bad. That's right, Lauren. I've just been waiting if
it helps. I was not on the football team. I doesn't,
okay it well, um, but I do find this really interesting.
I did not know that royalties of Gatorade went to
(29:06):
University of Florida. And like I said, Georgia Tech is
in Atlanta, which is the Coca Cola headquarters. So like
restaurants that are owned or affiliated with Pepsi, like Taco
Bell and Pizza Hut, which I think is still the same,
but when I was there, this was the case. So
like the only ones that sell Coca Cola instead of pepsi.
(29:26):
Yeah yeah, yeah, um, but that is interesting. And j
D also suggested we do an episode on sports drinks,
which we have been I mean years probably it's been
on the list and we've been like one day. It's
another one of those topics where we're like definitely one day. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's a it's a lot in the I mean
(29:46):
that the science about it is so wibbly wobbly um
that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't feel like
digging through that, like, and he's gonna ask and what
about the nutrition? And I'm gonna be like, oh, that's fine.
We want you to be your authentic self. If your
authentic self feels like screaming into the podcast void, and
(30:11):
that's what that's what it is. You can also just
be like any, I don't have time for your nonsensical
questions today. Uh well, thank you. I appreciate the support. Yes,
despite being my collegiate enemy, I will I will look
(30:34):
past it. That's that's very big of you. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. I have a very big person.
I appreciate you noticing. Oh goodness, yes, well, thanks to
both of those listeners who are writing to us. If
you would like to write to us, you can write
email us hello at sabor pod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
(30:57):
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Favor is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks, as always to our
super producers. Dylan Fagin, and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we
have an episode for you about William Bass. Yeah, some
more fun with pronunciation French. You know, we all love it.
I feel like every time we try to do a
what they call in the biz a tent pole event.
(00:32):
Today is bestial Day, we always for some reason get delayed.
And so we're recording this day of yeah, like this morning.
Uh yeah, yeah, so we'll see if it comes out
in time. But that just cracks me up. I feel
like every time we actually try for some reason to
delay yeah, curse, that's fine, it's you know, it's round about.
(00:59):
It's with an acceptable margin. Bestial day. Yes. Um, Well,
I don't think I've ever had bully a Bass. Oh No,
I don't know. I feel like I it's hard for
(01:19):
me to believe I haven't. Um. I feel like maybe
I had the San Francisco kind of similar dish, which
I can never remember to say. Um. The first I
ever heard of it was in Harry Potter, so that
must have been two thousand three. Apparently it was also
described in a Jane Austin book and I haven't read
Jane Austen, but I think it was described, but it
(01:41):
wasn't given the name, but essentially what was being described
was bully a base. Yeah, but I don't think I've
had it. I I've definitely had americanized versions that have
had shellfish scandal. Oh okay, I'm waiting for your explanation
(02:04):
of what it is. Uh, it's it was? Oh it's lovely.
I mean like it's it's it's fish soup. I like fish,
I like soup. I want you know, I want all
those things, you know, So I will I will say
that seafood is is definitely my favorite type of protein,
and so if I see it on a menu, it
(02:26):
is likely that that is what I am ordering. And
so yeah, yeah, I probably suffered from a lack of
from the name. I couldn't tell you what it was,
so I didn't bother to investigate further. Now that makes
me really sad, because I too love seafood and soup,
so I'm sure I would probably love it maybe someday.
(02:50):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, Okay, So we we need to
take we we definitely need to take a field trip
to the south of France and we can combine that
with are much awaited champagne trip. Yeah, I'll just go
to France for a few months. It's just you know,
I'm sure the boss will check off on that with
(03:12):
no questions asked. Are we just go you know, don't
ask for permission to apologize later or whatever that's saying.
I mean, hey, we've got these, we've got these relatively
portable microphone rigs. We can podcast from France. That's true.
No one has to know until the bill comes in.
Then there might be some questions. Yep. Yes, well, maybe
(03:39):
we could plan it around December four, which is National
Bullio based Day, which kind of cracks me up because
from what I understand, this is a US based holiday.
But hey like bullion Base here too, you can see
our past episode on saffron and tomatoes, which sometimes come
into play in this dish. Mm hmm, yes, but I
(04:01):
guess that brings us to our question Bollia base What
is it? Well? Uh, Billiam base is a sunny, summary
brothy soup or stew dish, rich with seafood and a
usually a little bit of potato, and bright and earthy
with veg and herbs and spices like onion, tomato, fennel, saffron, orange, zest, parsley, thyme,
(04:27):
and bay um and and the idea is to cook
down a lovely broth with all of those aromatics plus
probably some fish bones or like prepared stock, plus some
olive oil, then strain um in or blended, then add
sliced potatoes and the seafood towards the end just enough
to cook it through um. Depending on the recipe, the
(04:49):
broth can be almost more like a sauce for the
seafood um to be sopped up with bread instead of
a spooned or sipped And the olive oil is an
interesting ingredient because it suffies and makes the soup creamy
without adding the weight of dairy. So the seafood that
goes into it is traditionally like a like a firm whitefish.
(05:12):
The dish originated in or perhaps has been adopted by Marseilles,
a port city in southern France, and what they traditionally
say needs to go in to bully base is at
least four of six types of fish um, including local
things like monkfish and conger eel um, but probably definitely
(05:33):
red scorpion fish. That's that's critical. Yeah, it's it's a
type of rockfish. I have no experience with it. But
but yeah, folks add all kinds of things. Um, you know,
similar types of fish from local catches. Uh, you know whatever,
your local species of rockfish or maybe a red snapper
or halibut or grouper, but also lobster, crab, clams, muscles, scallops, shrimp. Oh,
(06:01):
I am getting more controversial to further down that list.
I go. I can hear it in your voice. I've
got I've got my hands up in the defense of gesture. Again,
I'm like, I'm only reporting. I'm only reporting what I
what I read, Okay, not recommending, only reporting. Uh yeah,
(06:23):
because because like uh like many like like comforting regional dishes,
there are disagreements about what makes a proper blie basse um.
Do you remove the veg entirely or do you curate
into the broth? What seasonings go in the broth? Is
wine and or perno or pastis appropriate or necessary to
(06:45):
the broth? Does orange, zest and or peel belonging there
at all? This sounds so deep and intense, The question
keep anny, think believe us, darn you frenchy kind of
(07:07):
the existential food questions. Yeah, I have often on this show. Yeah,
and you know, I think, I think at the end
of the day you have these are questions you have
to ask yourself. We cannot answer them for you. But
in any case, um it's usually served by scooping out
some of that just cooked through seafood and laying it
out on a on a tray or tureen, and then
(07:28):
ladling the broth over it um and then with lots
of crusty toasted bread and as a garnish for both
the bread and the broth. There's a thick, creamy type
of sauce or spread called ruy um and ruy gets
its name from its rusty red color, which comes from
the saffron and ground chilies or sometimes sweet peppers that
(07:49):
are used to make it um. It's a It's thickened
with powdered bread crumbs or potato starch and can be
made with either just a multified olive oil or with
oil plus egg yolks like a like a mayonnaise. It's
also seasoned with raw garlic, so it's got this really nice, warm, spicy,
earthy kick to it. Um. A simple a oli, which
(08:11):
is mayo with garlic can also be used. But yeah,
sometimes a blowy bass is served as a sort of
like two course meal, the first just the soup plus bread,
and then the fish plus the soup. Mm hmm, I've
heard it's it can be kind of the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, um,
(08:35):
it's definitely, I mean, you know, it's it's usually like
uh in in Marseille. I've I've come to understand they
will serve it by like you know, cooking everything in
the back and then coming and presenting you table side
with the fish, with like whole fish, just to prove
what kinds of fish are going into it, and then
(08:57):
either filet a table side or whisk the fish back
into the kitchen and then present you with a platter.
And yeah, the broth gets poured in. It's a whole thing.
Sometimes you float the bread, the toasted bread, on top
of the broth. It seems great, it seems great. I
did not have that fancy of an experience. Mine came
in a bowl and I ate it. That was also delightful.
(09:23):
How very basic, Laura, And there there are all kinds
of riffs on on the dish as well, like especially
in the tourist districts um in Marseille. Uh like like
I've read about like fish filet sandwiches that are served
with a with a cup of broth on the side.
Uh yeah, or like a like a three course bully
(09:46):
Base experience with with a course of raw shellfish and
then bites of fish and a light broth and then
a heavier soup with crabs. Basic spirit. It's a magic show.
I want to go to you right, I'm already I
(10:07):
can picture it now. Um what about the nutrition? Um
base is really pretty good for you. You know, lots
of lean protein, lots of vitamins and minerals. I mean,
you know, I'd say, like, don't use it as an
excuse to eat like an entire loaf of bread perhaps, um,
But or do and that's a treat and that's nice.
(10:28):
Uh but yeah, yeah, it depends on how you make it.
Watch your portion sizes, eat a vegetable. It is funny
with these. I I can do that all the time
with soups or any kind of thing where it's like
you use some usually bread like implement to eat it.
I'm a fast I'm not a fast eater, but I
like you can be a fast eater. My dude, I
can be. Generally I'm not, but I can be, and
(10:51):
so i'll It's just I need more bread to eat
the soup the next thing. I know. Yeah, a whole
loaf of bread been used. Actually there's still some soup
less super left. Yeah, yeah, I have to. I have
to paste my bread. It's all about skill really and control.
But skill. I don't want to eat any of bread
(11:16):
without soup. Yeah, that would be ridiculous, that would be
But I do want a lot of bread with every bite.
This only makes sense. It's a balancing act. We do
have some numbers for you. We do so. Marseilles, where
this dish yes allegedly hails from and where it is
(11:37):
arguably the most popular, has a population of about one million.
And this matters because of some of the requirements around
what makes Bulliya base Bullia base, which we'll get into.
We've already gone over some of them. But there was
a whole another whole thing that happened, especially in terms
of fish, doesn't match up with the amount caught and
(11:58):
the amount of bullya base eaten there. Yeah, I've read that.
It's it's not really a thing that locals would order
in a restaurant. Um, but because it is so well
known in that area by tourists, Like a single restaurant
might go through two tons of ficial week during the
tourist season in the summer, and and it can it
(12:21):
can get pricey depending on what types. It's a it's
a labor intensive dish to prepare. You know, you're you're
you're making the soup and then you're adding all of
these all of this lovely fresh seafood. Um. So some
of the fancy versions in Marseille restaurants can run you
like seventy five bucks to like two and fifty for
for a meal. Bang, that's the experience, Yeah, that one,
(12:48):
that that latter one is definitely on the experience side. Yes,
um A Julie Child said of the dish in v
on her show The French Chef. I always feel that
part of Marseille itself is cooked right into the bullyo base.
You can somehow just taste the flavor, the color, the
excitement of that old port. Oh that's lovely. I should
(13:14):
expect no less of Julia Child, but I do love
that when you taste something and it just brings you
right to a place. Yes, yes, And we do have
a lot to say about the history of that place.
We do, but first we've got a quick break for
a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes,
(13:41):
thank you. So. In its humble beginnings, bullyo base was
simply boiled fish. Um. How the story goes after that
very hotly debated, especially in Marseille, where the people claim
it is, yes, an invention of theirs. Some say a
(14:02):
fisherman used some of his cash to boil up a
fish soup while at sea. Others say it was a
dish of necessity, something to use up on sold fish.
It was originally called we a basso or boil lower
in Provencel, which makes sense yeah, um and maybe uh there.
(14:23):
There are at least four origin stories for the name.
A popular one is that it's a corruption a bullyear
to boil and pays fish. Bully pays bully a base.
I don't know, but it seems more likely that it
comes from um, from right, from from a from bullion
a base like broth reduced anyway, anyway. The name for
(14:49):
this dish first appeared in the French language about two
hundred years ago, and in the words of acclaimed food
writer Clifford Right. One of the earliest uses the word
bulliya base was in the eighteen thirties as a term
expressing the rapidity of the cooking stin Hall mentioned bullya bases,
perhaps referring to a fish stew in his Travels from
(15:10):
eighteen o six. But the famous French chef Raymond Olive,
writing in The Gastronomy of France, makes some extraordinary claims
about bullya base. He tells us that it is first
mentioned in a dictionary from seventive, that its heritage is
Venetian via Greek Sicily, and that the rules for the
making a bullia base were laid down in the sixteenth century.
None of this is supported by any evidence, but in
(15:32):
any case, I agree with this estimation that in bulliya base,
it is essential to retain all the delicacy of the fish,
and never to debase through too much zeal. A symphony
of taste, which is so hard to achieve, A symphony
of taste that's excellent, never debased through too much zeal.
(15:53):
Taste it's so hard to achieve. Gosh it is. It is,
according to some sources, the ancestor of bullion base, because
all the way back to six b C. In ancient Greece,
which Marseille was a Greek colony at the time. It
may have also appeared in Roman mythology when Venus fed
(16:15):
a similar soup to Vulcan in order to get him
to fall asleep so she could go fool around with
mars Um. And Yeah, many ancient writings described to boiled
fish soup. Again, this is something that just makes sense
to me for folks in your water that yeah, why
not make that? Yeah again, people like to get very
particular about the exact definition of bulliad base, which makes
(16:38):
the history very fun. M there you go. Um, going
back to that fisherman theory. Uh, they would put their
catch in boiling water and then lower the temperature in
order to poach it. This was described in an early
provinceal poem by es Cremazy. Never put oil in bullya
base water norishes the fish, but oil destroy it. But yeah,
(17:02):
like you're saying, Lauren, people are you as they like
to do that oil is key in making the broth,
or that the lower in the name actually refers to
the reduction of broth before adding in the fish to
achieve a stronger flavor. An Italian recipe from the fifteenth
century closely resembles bulli base apart from the oily fish use,
so that's generally from what I understand. And no, no,
(17:24):
but this recipe used to use things like salmon and anchovies.
So okay, yeah, all right, yeah, some recipes labeled bullyo
base in a classical provinceal cuisine didn't use fish at all. Um.
There was one called blind bully Base that incorporated eggs
instead of the fish, another that added spinach in there.
(17:48):
I don't know whoa This feels like the kale gumbo debate,
and I don't even know much about bullion base. I
feel like that would rubble some feathers. Oh yeah, at
any rate. By the late seventeen hundreds, bully bass was
being served in French restaurants, which were new at the
time and had come out of the French Revolution, both
(18:11):
um putting chefs who had been working for the aristocracy
out of jobs and and also um ending the guild
system um, which had kept the trade of cookery to
like a select few. Um. You can see our early
episode on French cuisine for more about all of that. Yes,
and bullio base changed as hawk cuisine in France coalest,
(18:35):
with chefs adding in the fish after they prepared the soup.
This also marked bullion base becoming a food of the bourgeoisie,
as opposed to kind of widespread popular food. It was
prior just something everyday people. Eight. Yes, a recipe out
of the eighteen thirties called for both sea bass and
spiny lobster, both of which we're pricey at the time.
(18:55):
So in eighteen seventy three Alexandra Duma featured it in
his work La Grand Dictioneer de la Cuisine. Then chef
Jean Baptiste Raboul's recipe, first put into writing in his
seven book La Cuisine provincel became. This recipe became the
standard recipe until the twentieth century. It called for boiling
(19:18):
whole small rock fish, um, seaving them and straining them. Apparently,
some restaurants live in fear of being sued after a
customer chokes on a fishbone. Yeah, I guess, like I guess,
that makes yeah not fair. Yes. While this recipe was
the go to the eighteen hundreds is also when folks
(19:39):
started really experimenting with ingredients, or at least when the
written record reflects that adding in things like potatoes, celery,
onions and tomatoes that would have been round about when um,
when tomatoes were we're being more widely incorporated into French cuisine.
I think that they had been used in southern France
before other areas. But yeah, yes, I fondly remember our
(20:07):
episode on tomatoes and how a lot of especially rich
people in Europe were like, these are poisonous and might
turn you into werewolves. So I had questions about that
as well. But after the First World War, the guy
behind popularizing France gastro tourism at the time the Prince
of Gastronomes cure Nat sky Um, and I looked this
(20:27):
fellow up because I was like one name only, what's
this about? And very interesting dude, And that was like
his pen name Um called bullyo base the soup of
Gold for the color due to saffron and or the
complex flavor, which is just a great nickname to have.
Both are good Prince of Gastronomes and Soup of gold,
the nicknames all around. Mm hmm. With the dawn of
(20:50):
the twentieth century, less than honorable restaurateurs in Marseille looking
to screw unwitting tourists started serving cheap, low quality versions
of Bulliyo base. This in turn led to a lowering
of opinion around the dish, which yes, was associated with
this area. It was a point of pride and it
was something tourists, We're coming to try um, and then
(21:10):
they're getting this lower quality version, lowering the opinion. So
this led to a group of restaurateurs in the area
coming together in to preserve and boost this dishes reputation.
They created a set of specifications for Bullia base, including
the fish that should be used, dictating that it should
(21:31):
be at least four UM and they also suggested that
the fish in question should be presented and filate at
the table, so consumers knew what they were getting. Do
you find it interesting because that's like the same time
um Gelato went through a similar yeah thing. But yeah,
I I'm a very suspicious person, but I also don't
(21:53):
really have a lot of know how when it goes
to the Yeah. Yeah, you could show me literally any
fish and I would be like, cool that a fish. Yeah.
The first time I ordered a bottle of wine at
a fancy restaurant, they put it out, they did the
whole thing, and then they like, uncorked it and I
just took the cork and smelled it. Was like, is
(22:13):
it the cheapest one you have? They're like, oh, they
totally colocked me. Yeah, They're like, yes, ma'am. Then it's great,
relatively inexpensive, miss I'll take it. And it was delicious. Um.
But Julia Child raised awareness around bulie base in America
(22:37):
when she included a recipe for it in her n
work The French Chef Cookbook. Before that, a lot of
average Americans perhaps had not heard of it. And then
here's this lovely, bright dish that Julia Child is very
happy to share. Extremely happy, happy as only Julia could be. Um, yeah, yeah,
(23:02):
I I love it. I love it when we do
episodes where I wind up with a craving for a
thing that I haven't ever really even experienced. Yep, same
feeling it. Um, but I have an idea in my
head and the idea tastes lovely. But hopefully we can
(23:26):
rectify this, Lauren. I feel like we say that the
end of every episode and it happens. Maybe maybe yeah, well,
you know, as as we as we start getting getting
back into travel, maybe maybe our our rate will go up.
We'll see what happens to those numbers. Yeah. Yeah, In
the meantime, I guess that's what we have to say
(23:47):
about Believe Base. For now it is. We do have
some listener mail for you. We do, but first we
have one more cup for word from our sponsor, and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with bright and summary. Yeah musical. Stacy wrote, I
(24:19):
am behind my podcast listening, so I just hurt the
Mac and Cheese episode. I have to share some of
my loves with this food. I live in Sacramento and
we have a great farmer's market. One Bendor is a
dairy from oh No, Petaluma. I hope I didn't butcher
that um spring Hill cheese, look them up. I love
mac and cheese with their smoked firehouse cheddar divine, and
(24:43):
to kick it up a notch, I also stir in
some goat cheese. You kind of made fun of mac
and cheese for breakfast, so I must defend it vigorously.
I make breakfast mac and it is wildly popular in
our home. I chopped up bacon and stir that into
the mac and cheese, not firehouse and away, then top
it with an over easy egg. When you cut into
the egg, the yolk mixes with the cheese sauce to
(25:05):
make it even more rich and magical. Then I've added
bread crumbs with garlic and choose one either garlic red
pepper flakes, time or stage. It's truly delightful. I hope
you can try it. Speaking of bacon, have you done
a bacon episode? I've begun curing and smoking my own
bacon game changer. We went through forty pounds of Portfoliate
(25:26):
Christmas as we gave out one point five pound packs
of homemade bacon. Asked Christmas gifts by stirring that into
my breakfast mac and cheese and garlic bread crumbs and
an over easy egg. Yes, please, yes, please do all yes, yes,
oh and okay, so so so I feel I feel
(25:47):
a little defensive and I and so I want to
say that that the type of breakfast mac and cheese
that we were making fun of was just like the
cup of like Kraft mac and cheese being sold as
a breakfast food. Yes we I'm whatever you want your
mac and cheese. I want you to have it then yeah, yes,
(26:11):
and I mean and even and even the craft microwavable cup.
Do it? Do it? I approve? Yeah, add bacon or
hot sauce or I love it good. If that sounds amazing,
it really does. I've never I've never, I've never cured
or smoked anything. Um, but that sounds like such a
(26:33):
lovely thing to do. We did. We did do a
bacon episode. We did a bacon episode. Um, I just
looked it up. I do not know this off the
top of my head. In April. Yes, so you can
see that that might be specifically the one we talk
about breakfast at least in part because we did a
breakfast episode, but we talked about kind of the marketing
(26:55):
behind breakfast foods and that yeah, yeah, well bake bacon
right was was one of the big ones, um that
the good old Eddie Burnet's got into. So we're on
a we're in a first name basis. Guy, I knew it,
um uh j D wrote, I was listening to your
(27:17):
Pimento cheese episode when you mentioned your confusion about UF
having pepsi products on campus, and there's an interesting reason
for it. Gatorade. I'm a fellow Gator B A O
three and M A fifteen and I grew up going
to football games in Gainesville, Florida previously had Coca Cola
products on campus, but that changed while I was a
student when Pepsi bought Quaker Oats in two thousand one.
(27:39):
Quaker was the owner of Gatorade after purchasing Stokely Van
Camp Incorporated in SPC had been the manufacturer of Gatorade
since entering into an agreement with the University of Florida
Professor Dr. Robert Cade following the nineteen sixty nine Orange Bowl.
The university, which receives twenty present royalties on Gatorade sales,
(28:02):
obviously wants to keep ties to its most famous invention.
Apparently Coca Cola was okay with this even after they
created a competing product, the vastly inferior Power Aid, but
once it was acquired by a direct competitor, I assume
either Coke, Pepsi, or both had a problem continuing the arrangement.
I don't recall whether the change was immediate, but by
(28:23):
my senior year it had been completed. I have so
many things to say. I love when there's a a
topic where I like, don't drink, for instance, but I
have strong opinions about it. Ad um. And also I
went to Georgia Deck and like, I wasn't really into
(28:45):
school spirit, but you were our enemies. Oh oh sun,
my bad. That's right, Lauren. I've just been waiting if
it helps. I was not on the football team. I doesn't,
okay it well, um, but I do find this really interesting.
I did not know that royalties of Gatorade went to
(29:06):
University of Florida. And like I said, Georgia Tech is
in Atlanta, which is the Coca Cola headquarters. So like
restaurants that are owned or affiliated with Pepsi, like Taco
Bell and Pizza Hut, which I think is still the same,
but when I was there, this was the case. So
like the only ones that sell Coca Cola instead of pepsi.
(29:26):
Yeah yeah, yeah, um, but that is interesting. And j
D also suggested we do an episode on sports drinks,
which we have been I mean years probably it's been
on the list and we've been like one day. It's
another one of those topics where we're like definitely one day. Yeah, yeah,
it's it's a it's a lot in the I mean
(29:46):
that the science about it is so wibbly wobbly um
that I'm kind of like, oh, I don't feel like
digging through that, like, and he's gonna ask and what
about the nutrition? And I'm gonna be like, oh, that's fine.
We want you to be your authentic self. If your
authentic self feels like screaming into the podcast void, and
(30:11):
that's what that's what it is. You can also just
be like any, I don't have time for your nonsensical
questions today. Uh well, thank you. I appreciate the support. Yes,
despite being my collegiate enemy, I will I will look
(30:34):
past it. That's that's very big of you. Thank you,
thank you, thank you. I have a very big person.
I appreciate you noticing. Oh goodness, yes, well, thanks to
both of those listeners who are writing to us. If
you would like to write to us, you can write
email us hello at sabor pod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
(30:57):
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Favor is a production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts on my heart Radio, you can visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks, as always to our
super producers. Dylan Fagin, and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you
for listening, and we hope that lots more good things
are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.