August 23, 2019 • 44 mins
A new class of burgers is aiming to save the planet by converting beef eaters to plant-based alternatives that look, feel, and even bleed like meat. Anney and Lauren explore the history and science behind Impossible Foods, Beyond Meat, and other brands.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to save a protection of I Heart
radio and stuff Media. I'm an Area and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum.
And today we're talking about some of the meat substitute
products that are super in the news right now. Oh
my goodness, yes they are. Yeah, we're specifically talking about
the ones that are really trying to replicate the taste
(00:31):
and uh texture of beef. Right. And as you've probably heard,
Burger King added, Yes, that Burger King of the chain
added an impossible burger to their menu. That's a brand, yes, um,
and that's a brand. We will be talking about a
(00:51):
lot today and right here in Atlantis Bloody Vegan Um.
Probably you've heard of it. I don't know if you're
around Atlanta, certainly it's it's quite a popular vegan restaurant. Yes,
and it's one of its big things is a plant
based burger. And it has attracted these massive lines and
caused massive trouble and even gosh because somebody was waiting
(01:15):
in the line. Oh yeah. My co host over on Smithy,
she she lives near it, and she went during the
Super Bowl. Very great plan, got in with no line
and her consensus was, if I didn't have to wait
in line. Basically that from what I gathered she's she
was saying, if I didn't have to wait in line,
(01:35):
that was great, but I would never wait in line. Um.
But it has been super successful and is opening a
second location soon. Yeah, they offer impossible brand burger patties
and beyond meat brand brought worst. Um. But yeah, they're there.
Their buns and sauces are vegan to like, their entire
restaurant is fast food vegan. And yesterday, as we were
(01:56):
researching this, I ran into somebody who works here, Alyle,
a good friend of ours, and he was like, I
just waited in line at Popeye's And I was like why,
and he told me all about the feud about chicken sandwiches. Oh,
the Twitter feud. We're so behind the time it was.
(02:16):
I had read about it, but I hadn't. Actually, I
think that I had noticed that it was happening, but
I didn't look into it. And I got a hearty
chuckle at my desk this afternoon about it, because Yeah,
apparently Popeyees has been advertising their new chicken sandwich. It's
not an alternative chicken, it's just regular chicken sandwich. Um.
And the main comparison has been to Chick file AT's
(02:37):
chicken sandwich, and then Chick fil A tweeted that like
like oh man like loved the original, and Popeyes like
retweeted it with y'all good. And then Wendy's Gotten the
Fray and then Zaxby's got in there and it was
sake shack. Yeah, it was a whole bunch. It was.
(02:58):
It was. But I you know, I recommend looking at
if you like social media feuds between big corporations. UM. So,
I was very confused about the whole thing yesterday. But
we are not talking about that specifically. Um we are
talking about yeah, meat alternatives. And I did want to
bring up recently We're at podcasts conference in Orlando podcast Movement, Yes,
(03:20):
which is a conference, and our boss Connell ordered an
impossible burger at one of the restaurants in the venue. Yeah. Yeah,
Beth Anne and Connell both both ordered one. They did.
I have had one, and it was good. That's all
I seemed to remember. It was good. This whole thing
reminded me. I'll never forget the time I went to
one of my best friend's house and I was nine
(03:40):
and her mom always kind of had the weird you
know food. She was the one that you associated with
the stranger foods as a kid, and she offered me
meatless meatballs. And they'll look on my face. They just
paradigm shift, I'm sure and blew your little mind because
as a kid I didn't know, like in there, it's
(04:01):
meatless meat. You've said a number of words that don't
make sense next to each other. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
My mom was big on plant proteins. I was eating
tofu like regularly by the time I was five or so. Um.
But I don't think I had like a meat substitute
product until middle or high school, which was a soy
based burger at Epcot, which I did not enjoy. Um.
(04:26):
But I mean this was also like like mid nineties,
like the technology had not really know, there has been
a lot of inovation. Oh goodness, my gracious yes. Um. Now,
I was pretty big on bean burger's post college, until
I realized that I can't have bell pepper, y'all. They
dang all have bell pepper in them, and it makes
me so mad because I like a bean burger. They're tasty,
(04:47):
they are tasty. Gosh um. I've not had an impossible
or a beyond burger. Um, I meant to go get
one last night, but the evening just got away from
me from Burger King. No, I was going to go.
They have one over at Argosy, which is cool little
restaurant down in East Atlanta Village that actually one of
my roommates works at. So I used to make pretty regularly. Um,
sweet potato and Lintel burgersd them. Oh man, it sounds weird,
(05:11):
but something happens and it was really good anyway. Okay,
let's get to our question. I don't even know what
the question is. Meat substitute, Burger's burger, burger, beef burger substitutes,
what are they? Well? Um, uh, you know, interest in
(05:32):
non meat proteins goes back like thousands of years. Um,
this is not a new thing, and as food technologies
have developed, humans have created any number of different plant
based products that try in various ways to approximate the
taste and texture of meats. Lots of other plant based
products don't try to do that, which is also just fine,
but yeah, separate categories. These products have generally been packaged,
(05:55):
frozen and sold to consumers or or two eateries to
be thought and heated on site or or in homes.
Um And you know that's fine, But but freezing foods
does impact the texture and the flavor, and never really
for the better. So a few companies right now are
working on plant based meat substitutes that can be sold
fresh and cooked the way that you cook fresh meats,
(06:16):
and that approximate the experience of eating meat, especially beef,
more closely than their predecessors. And yes, they are making
a lot of headlines. Um and the two they contenders
here in the United States are the aforementioned Impossible Foods
and Beyond Meat. Yes, both of these companies offer fresh,
preformed burger patties that can be cooked like beef burgers.
(06:39):
They brown like beef. They even bleed a little when
you cut or bite into them. Yeah. Yeah, bleeding beef,
bleeding beef. Yep. It's if you see a description, it's
a quote around bleeding and then one around beef, not
together separately. The names I tell you, the names Beyond Meat,
(06:59):
Impossible Burger, Incredible Burger, Awesome Burger. In some states, there
is pending legislation over the use of the word meat
and products that do not involve actual meat from slaughtered animals.
I believe one state has already passed it, and there's
twenty one states looking into it. The meat industries, Oh yeah, lobbying,
it's a lot exactly. And it's the same thing like
(07:21):
with milk. Yeah yeah, And I okay, like I kind
of love this. I mean I I dislike that time
and money in our government is being, in my personal consideration,
kind of wasted on on something that. Okay, I mean
like like not to underscore the importance of of clarity
and labeling because like, if you're confused about whether product
(07:44):
contains meat, like that's not helping anyone. No, no, like
you want to be clear about it. Um. But yeah,
just I don't know like some of it. So if
it gets so ridiculous, like all right. The New York
Times reported that this one representative from Mississippi who has
tried to let slate against this whole nut milk thing
um that the word milk being on nut milks and
(08:05):
on labels. Um. He said, almonds don't produce milk. He
doesn't know that for sure. It depends, it all depends.
I mean, it's true that almonds don't lactate. But that's true.
I mean but he also said, Man, I'm a little
bit saucy about this. He said, the fake lab produced
(08:27):
meat is a little bit more of a science fiction
type deal. That concerns me more. Oh, I'm sort of like, oh, man,
like calm down, like find something else to be mad about.
There's a lot of stuff to be mad about right now.
The world is on fire, plant based meat is not. Yeah,
I pick a different issue. Yeah, anyway, that's that's a
(08:48):
representative Bill Piggott friends, just in case you or someone
that you know lives in Mississippi and might be interested
in voting for humans who have a slightly more science
and less scare tactic uh form of communication in their legislation.
I don't know, I don't know. Vote however you want.
Just vote. Yes, I'm getting way off. Finger at me
(09:12):
very aggressively. I will aren't. Okay, good, good andie, thank you,
We welcome. Yeah, let's get to nutrition. Yeah. So, this
current generation of meatless burger is actually pretty similar to
beef burgers in terms of macronutrients. Four ounds impossible beyond
or regular old beef burger. All have roughly the same
(09:34):
number of calories total fat, saturated fat, and protein. The
only real difference comes in that the meatless products contain
a little bit of carbs and dietary fiber, whereas meat
burgers do not. Micronutrients are where the products do differ. Um.
I had a hard time finding specifics for beyond but
um but impossible has an even wider and deeper spread
(09:56):
of vitamins and minerals than beef does. Specifically lots of
thiamon beat and I think if you know, those are
things you're looking for. I did read um a lot
of articles saying that this is one of the biggest
hurdles of of these specific brands is that when people
cotton onto oh, it's actually the same amount of like calories. Yeah,
(10:18):
it's not healthier, it's not lower, and I mean health
has health is a big issue, right yeah, But I
mean people decide to to a skew meat for multiple reasons.
Sure you I've always said askew oh man, you learned
(10:38):
something every day life life lessons all over the place.
It's true, It's true. Um, but okay, so so yeah,
so if not nutrition, then why choose a non meat product.
I don't know what I do I do oh okay, yeah, yeah,
(10:59):
because because humans turn to vegetarian and vegan options for
all kinds of reasons, you know, concerns over the treatment
of animals, moral quandaries about eating animals, religion, health cost,
environmental impact. But yeah, again, talking specifically today about about
products meant to mimic the experience of eating beef. Um.
(11:20):
Those products are coming up because the beef industry is
specifically problematic. Um Like, okay, meat, meat is a luxury um,
and beef in particular is a status product, and we
eat a lot of it, especially as we as humans
are not like any and me, especially as we gain
the means to do so. Like the world population has
(11:41):
more than doubled since the early nineteen sixties, but meat
production has quintupled in that time. Um. And although the
per capita consumption of beef has been pretty much on
the decline in the United States since the nineteen seventies,
it's still four times higher here than the world average,
and it's been increasing in developing nations. Wow. Yeah, I
(12:06):
was researching why why meat is manly the other day
and oh yeah, yeah, that's going to be a spenty episode. Yeah,
and there's a lot there there. Um. Part of the
popularity of these products. Beyond vegetarians and megans having an
option on menus is people wanting to make an environmentally
(12:27):
friendly choice, especially right now, that seems to be kind
of the big thing. One of the main pushes, UM,
a meat tasting alternative for people who love beef but
are environmentally minded, because you have to think, like, if
it is like a meat alternative, it is a lot
of people. They're targeting people who eat meat. Yeah yeah, um,
(12:47):
because Okay, growing cattle takes a lot of resources, like
a shocking amount of resources um. Eleven thousand gallons of
water per year per cow, um. Ten times as much
vegetation goes into growing beef as it would take for
us to just get those calories from vegetation. Uh. To
create a kilo of beef about two point two pounds.
The cattle industry creates the same amount of carbon dioxide
(13:10):
emissions that the average European car would every fifty five
miles or two kilometers for metric friends. UH. Cattle burps
and farts make up ten percent of total global greenhouse
gas emissions. Like, I think that's more than the entire
transportation industry combined. UM. All other types of meat production
(13:30):
combined only make up another eight percent. So cattle is
like sort of this very separate, very intense problem there. Um,
beef is seven times more land in greenhouse gas intensive
to grow than chicken, and it's twenty times more so
than beans. The Center for Sustainable Systems at the University
of Michigan conducted a study that was commissioned by Beyond
(13:52):
Meat from Staphoya that I found that compared to a
quarter pound beef burger, a plant based burger produces less
greenhouse gas emissions, calls for less energy, impacts water scarcity less,
and has less of an impact on land usage. Hoof
Fast Company found that if Americans at large switched to
(14:14):
plant based burgers, it would be the same as removing
at twelve million cars from the roads for an entire year.
Who Yeah, the impossible aims to get rid of the
need for animals for meat by and that is a
big aim. Like projections put world meat consumption doubling by
due to population and economic growth. But but but but
(14:36):
who knows, I mean, like this is this it could
be a seat change. Beyond Meat founder Ethan Brown said
that when survey Beyond purchasers reported also buying traditional meat
during the same period, and a survey about Impossible show
that seventy people who ordered their burgers from menus are
meat eaters. So who knows, y'all, who knows, But it
(14:59):
is big deal because apparently this shocked to me. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaking of numbers, the average American eats three burgers a week.
I know, I can't. I'm like, I'm trying to think
of the last time I had a burger. I don't know.
I'm like maybe I have maybe like one per quarter. Yeah,
what's going on? What are you doing? I mean, it
(15:23):
is delicious. One pole from Politico found that banning meat
did worse than any other issues surveyed. Oh wow, Like
they were like that that is our least favorite of
any terrible option. Yeah, and I think no joke. I
think isis was on there. You're like, oh, don't you
dig away my meat? Tech? Okay, And we have seen
(15:46):
this play out in our politics recently. They're coming for
your burgers. These burgers, um, like we said, are pretty
much targeted to meat eaters. So that's kind of a problem. Uh, impossible,
even as a list of don't slight quote, we don't
say vegan, we are for meat eaters. We don't meet shame.
We are not political. However, another study found that given
(16:07):
plant based burgers tasted the same as burgers made with meat,
six of consumers would still go for the meat version.
I think my dad is someone who would have done this,
And I think it's about like suspicion or bad experiences,
like past bad experiences. Yeah, yeah, I mean based on
that Epcot burger, I like, I wouldn't have eaten another
(16:30):
one of those for years, right. Yeah. When it comes
to meatless burgers, Morningstar Farms, owned by Kellogg, has the
largest market share, but that share is decreasing. Meat substitute
retail sales hit eight million dollars over the year long
period ending May twenty this year. Yeah here in the
United States, I believe. Yeah. Um. And here in the US,
(16:51):
sales of meat step substitutes have increased since during the
same period, traditional meat sales only increase, and globally, meat
substitute sales are protected to grow by bye. So this
is not just an American thing that was happening, not
at all though, just for just for contrast, So, the
(17:14):
global meat substitute market was worth one point five billion
as of that's a lot. Yes, the conventional meat market
was I shouldn't say meat market, should I the conventional
may share. You guys know what I mean. The conventional
meat market was one five trillion. Oh, so my brain
(17:35):
is not still still a drop in the bucket comparatively. Yes,
after getting approval from the FDA here in the US,
the Impossible Burger could be grocery stores as soon as September,
which is a month from recording this. In May, Beyond
Meat had the best I p O often so far,
which I don't know much about IP was, but I
(17:56):
know that's a big deal. Initial public offering. Yes, it's
a financial thing. Yes sure. In June, Beyond Meat stock
price was going for five hundred percent above the initial offering.
The Impossible Burger is available in fifteen thousand restaurants. They've
raised over seven fifty million dollars and are worth an
estimated two billion dollars. Beyond Meat, on the other hand,
(18:18):
has the market value of nine billion dollars at its
highest it was fourteen billion. It's available at fifty three
thousand restaurants. But the Impossible Burger outsells the Beyond Meat
Burger three to one. At Bearer Burger which has both
options on the menu Impossible Burger they have They make
one point five million pounds of meat alternative a month.
(18:40):
Oh and Beyond has products and thirty thousand grocery stores,
restaurants and schools. Um and they can be found in
the United States, Canada, the UK, Italy, and Israel. UM
Impossible employees about four hundred and forty people. One hundred
and ten of those are in research and development, and
they spend is doing things like smelling, smelling different combinations
(19:04):
like cheese and salami, trying to hone in on the
scent of meat. It's amazing. Beyond Beyond Meats Lab has
sixty three R and D employees. I love it. Yeah,
that's so cool. Um Burger King's chief marketing officer, so
take this with a grain of salt, told The New
York Times that customers and even employees have not been
(19:24):
able to tell the difference between the meatless Impossible Whopper
and the classic beef variety. Their commercial certainly implies that
that I'll have no idea beyond meat and Impossible Burger.
And this is huge new They're vuying for the big one,
the King McDonald. Yes, yes, some Europe and McDonald's I
(19:49):
think in Germany have the Incredible Burger, which is similar
to yeah, yeah, yeah, the Incredible Burger being a nest
Lely product being sold there under the Garden Gourmet brand.
A former McDonald's CEO is on the Beyond Meat board. So,
but the problem is the logistics of producing enough meatless
(20:11):
burgers to meet McDonald's level of demand. It complicates any
potential deals. Oh of course, and uh, you know Impossible
has run into this with their Burger King deal. Yes,
shortages have dogged most brands of meatless meat. As the
Impossible Burger was debuting on the Burger King menut of
its listed restaurant locations didn't have any supply, and when
(20:34):
the search for a and WS Beyond Burger reached a
fever pitch, it drew in. Jessica Chas stay as an investor,
and you can see, like, if you're interested at all,
you can go on Twitter and see complaint after complaint
uh at Impossible Burger Beyond Meat for shortages And I
can't believe you're expanding when I without Yeah, yeah, but
(20:58):
we're going to talk about that a little bit more
or later we will, Yeah, we're going to get into
some history for you, but first we're going to take
a quick break for a word from our sponsor. And
we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. So meat
(21:19):
alternatives do go way back. We've done episodes on tofu
and satan, so check those out if you're interested. And
and tempa my favorite. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Tofu is
of course, a soy based, Satan is a wheat gluten product,
and tempa is fungus based. Most modern meat substitutes are
based on one or more of these products, with satan
(21:41):
really being the only one meant to like replicate the
texture of meat and poultry specifically. And we've talked about
this before, but go over it briefly in J. H. Killogg,
John Harvey Killick. Oh, that guy, that guy, Lauscha pia
based food called Nuttos touted as a substitute for quote,
(22:03):
flesh foods, flesh foods, gosh, yes, um, and these earlier
alternatives that he was part of. They were meant to
taste plain, not to over stimulate your senses because you
might go straight to hell. Oh yeah yeah, watch watch
out for flavors. They're they're a pathway to sin. Yeah,
(22:24):
talking about satan kell I arrived at this this nutos
after many experiments. The first prototype pro tos he described
as resembling quote, potted veal or chicken. It has a
distinctly media odor and flavor. When a bit is torn
off and chewed, it shows a distinct fiber. It is
of such consistency that it may be masticated like tender meat,
(22:47):
and when cooked retains its form as does meat. What
I understand. This was still available until a couple of
years ago. Um he made over a million dollars in
mock meat sales one year. Who was a big deal? Yeah.
In nineteen nine, Worthington Foods released their soiloin steak meatless Wieners,
(23:08):
and Worthington would go on to become Morning Star owned
by Yeah. The first commercial burger Garden Burger came out
in nineteen eighty five in the United States. That same
year in the UK corn Quorn and also maybe not
that same year I I saw. I always confused how
(23:30):
this happens, but a lot of different dates. But sometime
in this area came on the shelves um and part
composed of fucus in the fermentation park. Yeah, tempest style
sure yep in Garden Burger, I had to include. This
aired a one point five million dollar animated commercial voiced
by Samuel L. Jackson during the season finale of Seinfeld,
(23:55):
and they saw surge and sales afterwards. Not just the
most anti Reese fact that I think we've ever had
on the show. When I saw, I knew it had
to be in here, like a Seinfeld fact in the
Alternative Meat episode Yes Please, It's Beautiful. Beyond Meat was
founded in two thousand nine by one Ethan Brown, a
(24:17):
former clean energy executive who grew up on partially on
the dairy farm that his parents co owned, and Bill
Gates was an early investor and Twitter's co founder biz Stone,
and at first, Beyond Meat was working on developing chicken substitutes.
Brown had actually been working on such a project since
the nineteen eighties. But yeah, they they brought a couple
(24:38):
formulas to market in the early twenty teens. They had
their chicken strips at Whole Foods nationwide. By meanwhile, Impossible
Foods was founded in Tleven by Dr Pat Brown no
relation um, a former Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator. Their
their investigator program supports biomedical research and also a four
(25:00):
professor of biochemistry at Stanford. He apparently went vegan in
or after college and had been like pondering ever since
how he might help reduce the world's meat consumption. Bill
gates back to this one too, and they've gotten cash
infusions from celebrities like Jay Zachevor, Noah, Katie Perry, Jaden Smith,
and Swery Williams. In. A Dutch researcher by the name
(25:23):
of Mark Post made the in vitro burger, a three
hundred thousand dollar burger made of cultured councils. Yeah, the
technology has dropped way down in price since then. Uh.
Making one in the lab costs about like eleven bucks
now Yeah, although it's still not considered commercially viable. Um.
(25:43):
And estimates for such a product's debut within the next
year or so, they think it's going to come to market. Um,
but the cost ranges around like like fifty dollars projected
per burger. Wild companies are working out production processes. Wow.
And then beyond meat debuts beast burger, beast burger, beast burger. Yeah, okay, yep, gosh,
(26:07):
you gotta have a name in this game. Lauren, You've
got to have a good name. Uh. When the first
Whole Foods that sold Beyond Meat put their first shipment
out in May, it's sold out by six pm Wow,
same day, Yeah um and Yeah. Beyond Meats early strategy
was to push to get their product into supermarkets directly
(26:30):
in front of consumers. UM. Later in steen Tyson Foods,
you know supermarket major Yes brand Um invested an undisclosed
amount in exchange for a five percent steak in the company,
and they've since sold it hypothetically to get in on
their own competing product Injury. I know n YCS Mama
(26:53):
Fuku Ni she started selling the Impossible Burger in July.
This was part of impossible marketing campaign to generate millennial
buzz um by getting these big name chefs on board
with the product. In seventeen, Beyond Meats big supermarket push
really hit its first breakthrough. That's when CEO Ethan Brown
(27:17):
cooked up a sample platter of his burgers for the
meat buyer executives from the more mainstream grocery chain safe way,
not that Whole Foods isn't mainstream, but you know, it's
kind of a specialty thing. Uh. He had been yeah, yeah,
trying to get his burgers displayed in their fresh meat aisles. Uh.
Over over two stores and they finally agreed. Um. Apparently
(27:39):
they were skeptical. Brown told the magazine Courts, one guy
takes one bite, throws it in the trash and says,
I'm in. I like that guy from this little I
know about him. I do mm hmm. In late fast
food chain Whitecastle began selling Impossible Burger sliders, and in
(27:59):
January are twenty nineteen fast food chain Carl's Jr. Debut
beyond Meat burgers and over a thousand restaurants. Wow, huh,
I've never eaten it either of those pots. Carl's Carls Jr.
Is more of a West Coast thing. White Castle is
traditionally more like Northern But I think you can. You
can find them around. I think I can. I think
(28:23):
I can. I believe in you, Annie, Thank you. Also
in January, Impossible launched their version two point oh more versatile.
You could stew it, you could braise it, you could
and they supposedly developed this in response to early tests
with Burger King, who said that the Impossible patties crumbled
over their open flame broiling process. Unlike beef patties um
(28:44):
so yeah, Impossible swapped their their wheat proteins out for
soy proteins. Yes. In February, Impossible launched in Singapore that
already been in Hong Kong for a few months. And
apparently they're just doing rip roar and business out there.
And in the spring of twenty nineteen, Beyond Meat discontinued
those chicken strips. They say that they're they're working on
(29:07):
a new formula, a new formula. This is all happening
right now, I know. And speaking of yeah, in April
of this year, Burger Kick introduced their Impossible Whopper at
fifty nine stores um and also fast casual chain Red
Robin debuted Impossible patties at all five seventy of their locations.
(29:27):
Huh yeah. And this is where that shortage stuff comes in.
Although there's been a problem on and off for a while,
Impossible address the shortage in quote. We sincerely apologize to
all customers, particularly those who have come to depend on
the additional foot traffic and revenue that the Impossible Burger
has generated. Burger King has also run into some problems,
(29:49):
being called out for not being one percent vegetarian since
the patty is cooked on the same grill as their
meat products. Yeah, they're also not vegan. They do um
still put the Mayo Whopper. Yeah, but after Burger King's
month long trial, they did announced they would be rolling
the Impossible Burger out at all of their United States stores.
(30:12):
There you go, hoof, there you go. Also also in April,
uh nest Lee launched their European brand Incredible Burger in
grocery stores in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway,
and Sweden. Just to start with, just to start Cuba.
The Mexican chain Text Mex plans to start offering Impossible
(30:33):
at its seven and thirty restaurants this year, and in
June of twenty nineteen, Nestle announced that they will launch
their American entry into the field The Awesome Burger just
fall under Sweet Earth and I love that they like
rebranded and reformulated for the American market and it went
from being the Incredible Burger to the Awesome Burger. I
(30:57):
feel like they have our number. We got the Impossible,
beyond awesome, awesome. I tell you, you gotta have a name, dude.
Uh this does pose to shake up the American industry,
as these other companies are startups and and Nestley is not. No. Um.
They also say that their product will contain no saturated fat.
(31:19):
I'm not sure how that would work. I mean, food
sciences is pretty wild, but yeah, I'm very skeptical. Also
in the future, Impossible is planning fish mimicking products than
pork and chicken, and they're also looking at dairy and
uh beyond Meat has a goal of getting at least
(31:41):
one of their products to a cheaper price point than
the animal alternative. Yeah, so a lot to look forward to. Yeah,
maybe who knows, who knows? I don't know. Now I'm
getting concerned. I don't know why. Most of the stuff
we talked about, like how it's Heyday, like a hundred
(32:03):
years ago. So this is really this is really weird.
This is a this is a fun kind of kind
of anxious feeling that I'm having right now. Fun anxious feeling.
I think that's how we can describe ourselves. Oh gosh, yeah,
I know, that's just that's yeah, that's every day. But
we do have some fun not necessarily anxious science for you.
(32:26):
But but but first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. So science, how do these
companies build a burger that acts like a burger but
(32:48):
is not made of beef? I don't know. Well, identifying
the the genes qua of beef is some serious science.
Researchers at these firms are like reverse engineering the burger
by investigating what flavor and color compounds exist in beef
and what proteins and fats give it its texture, and
(33:08):
then they go looking for plant sources for those substitutes.
Makes sense beyond meats products use use p and other
lagume proteins, rice protein and potato starch, coconut oil, cocoa, butter,
beat juice extract is that is that blood color? Their
sausage products are colored with fruit extracts. Nestle's forthcoming product
(33:29):
sounds pretty similar. Impossible, uh since their two point o
revolution uh now uses soy and potato proteins and coconut
oil plus A plus a few other things. But they're
they're secret ingredient and by secret, I mean they announced
it all over the place. Um is a compound called
hem um. I think I'm assuming I'm saying that correctly.
(33:50):
It's it's spelled h E M E and yeah, heam
contains the the iron that gives beef it's red color
and some of it's kind of savory flavor. He occurs
in both animals and plants in a class of proteins
called globin's. It's in our blood contained in hemoglobin. Probably
heard of it, and muscles have it in myoglobin, and
(34:10):
the roots of soy plants have it in leg hemoglobin. Yes,
so cool harvested from soy plants vegetarian solution. There's a
lot of subsidies for producing soy. All good, right right Nope? Um.
An acre of soy plants would yield just a kilo
of leg hemoglobin. So they mass produce it using genetically
(34:32):
modified yeast cultures. Uh. And this is a common manufacturing
technique for all kinds of food compounds. And in this
particular case, they take the species of yeast called Pecia
pastorus I think, and they give it the gene that
soy plants used to make like hemoglobin. Um. They then
grow just big old populations of this east and labs um.
The yeast eats sugar in minerals and it produces the protein,
(34:55):
which can then be harvested. I couldn't figure out whether
the leg hemoglobin is grown in the yeast or if
it's excreted as a byproduct. I'm not sure. If it's excreted,
then yeast poop. If not, you know, then take it back. Yeah,
then take back the yeast poop. No, sorry about it.
Sorry to enter yeast poop uncertainty into the conversation. Here
(35:20):
we go perfect um, And Yeah, it is a more
environmentally and cost friendly method than growing all that soy
would be. And it's way more that stuff friendly than
grown cattle. So like hemoglobin is a new substance in
human diets, and there was a kerfuffle over whether the
FDA was going to grant it generally recognized as safe
(35:43):
status UM. Preliminary studies in vitro and in animals checked
out UM, and eventually the FDA gave him the complicated
stamp of approval that they have no questions as to
the veracity of impossible claims that like hemoglobin should be
generally recognized as safe under the intended consumption conditions. No questions.
(36:07):
It's a good thing intended consumption conditions. Yeah, I don't
know that I always fall within that box super positive
that you don't friend UM as as a Matt Simon,
writing for for Wired, pointed out that this is part
of a larger question into how these bleeding edge products
(36:29):
pun completely intended UM should go through safety testing. A
lot of it is voluntary and up to the companies
and UM. Then the the actual yeah, it's it's it's complicated,
it's complicated. Yeah. Other controversies ah Man Impossible used animal
testing UM A hundred and eighteen lab rats in there,
(36:52):
like hiboglobin studies, and Peter went after them. Peter was
un happy. Yeah, I mean Pete is usual land it's
about to say, but yeah, yeah, yeah UM. Also, the
soy that Impossible is using is genetically modified, which some
people have a problem with. And I don't think any
of these popular products are entirely organic, which some probably
(37:14):
overlapping people have a problem with. UM though I will
say that you know, GMO products as a whole are
in no way inferior, two, or more dangerous than conventional products,
and the term organic UM is wide enough to be
essentially meaningless UM without looking into these specific farming techniques
being used for the ingredients that are going into these things.
It is impossible to say whether these products are less
(37:38):
good than like non GMO or organic products would be.
So every time you said impossible is this oh oh,
I missed that one, it's impossible to say is oh gosh.
I I applaud them for the names, because it's really
(37:59):
fun to read news items where you just every other
word is impossible, are awesome beyond yeah? Well this one.
I feel like we're gonna, you know, a couple of
years from now updates. Absolutely so much is happening yeah,
and so fast um, and I think faster than then
(38:22):
even these companies thought it would so yeah, And who knows.
By the time you hear this, something could have changed,
something could have changed. A lot of articles out there
about this. There are oh gosh, there's a lot of
reading to be done if you are curious about it.
There there's a lot more so much, yeah, so much.
(38:44):
But for now, cap on it. Yeah, yeah, yes, And
it brings us to not impossible at all, no, no,
for two people to coordinate a odd racial the podcast
not impossible, sometimes difficult. Claire wrote, I was so excited
(39:12):
when you called out to French folks during your Salad episode.
To write in about French salad timing. At last, I
finally have a legit reason to write in to one
of my absolute favorite podcasts, Thank You. I am half French,
was born there, but grew up in the States. However,
I was lucky enough to spend most of my summers
in France while I was growing up, and try to
get back there as often as possible now that I'm
an adult. So I can't speak of the country as
(39:34):
a whole, I can tell you that in my family
and most other homes and restaurants I visited in France,
the salad follows the main course. Here's how most meals
go down, at least with the Goussaud clan. If we're
feeling fancy, we might start with a small appetizer like
a slice of cantalope, silver of kiche, or soup. Main course,
which is some sort of standard meat, grain of edge, combo,
(39:57):
salad time jeez, or yogurt assert which is usually just
a piece of fruit unless it's a special occasion for us.
The salad is usually a very simple green salad made
with freeze or whatever type of lettuce is fresh and
available at the time. Before we all sit down to dinner.
Someone will make a vinegrette in the bottom of a
large salad bowl, using oil, vinegar, mustard, salt, pepper, and
(40:17):
whichever herbs are on hand well, then put the washed
lettuce on top. That way, the salad and vineagrette are
ready to toss together just before eating and doesn't get soggy.
Very clever fun anecdote. My grandfather loved salad and insisted
on having it with pretty much every meal while he
was alive. He had an endearing habit of pretending that
he only wanted a little bit as we passed the
(40:39):
bowl around for second helpings, but then serving himself a
heaping plateful. He would modestly say, oh, just a petite few,
or oh, I'll just have a little leaf, and then
polish off half the bowl. Even though my grandma pretended
that she didn't like the salad that much and just
ate it because he always wanted it, she has now
picked up the same habit. We all got together last
(41:00):
summer to celebrate my grandmother's ninetieth birthday with a big,
fancy meal. The birthday dinner was held at a beautiful
auberge near our family home in the Alps. We hiked
in together, shared a gourmet meal, and spent the night
there before hiking out in the morning. Before the big event,
my cousins and I, all in our twenties and early thirties,
decide have a little game of goosard family bingo during
dinner without letting the parents in on it. We predicted
(41:23):
all the things we thought were likely to happen over
the course of the meal, and each placed bets on
how many of them would come to pass. One of
my cousins was keeping scoreing to the table during dinner.
We all bet on my grandma doing her justin few
bit with the salad, and she did not disappoint. That's amazing,
(41:45):
Laura wrote, I just listened to your picnic episode and
was reminded of my favorite picnic story. Last year, I
threw hiked the Appalachian Trail, so for six months nearly
all of my meals were technically picnics. However, they were
very sad picnics, usually consisting of tortillas with peanut butter
and some dried fruit, or just pop tarts and granola bars.
(42:05):
When my friend and I realized all of our meals
were sad picnics, we made a list of our favorite
picnic foods and decided to buy those items at our
next resupply so that we could enjoy a real picnic
on trail. Next resupply, we bought hummus, non pe shoots,
baby carrots, kalamata olives, grapes, blueberries, dates, and dark chocolate
and set off with our obscenely heavy packs. We knew
(42:28):
we wouldn't make it far with our packs so loaded
with fresh food, nor did we have any means refrigeration,
so we had to have our picnic sooner rather than later. However,
it would not stop raining that day story of the
entire summer of eighteen for the US Eastern Seaboard, and
we couldn't unpack our lovely picnic spread in the driving rain.
The trail happened to take us through a small town
(42:48):
in Pennsylvania that day, so we ended up having our
picnic inside a gas station Duncantonuts. We added iced coffee
and blueberry donuts to the spread because it through hikers
hunger knows no limits. We definitely got some strange looks
from employees and other through hikers, but to us it
felt like a dream to have picnic foods and surprise Duncan.
(43:09):
At the same time, it was a relief to learn
from your episode that historical picnics did not always occur outdoors.
Otherwise my favorite one would have been invalidated. That's lovely,
That is lovely. What a wonderful picnic. Oh gosh, and
surprised Donuts. Yeah, surprised Ice Coffee. Surprised Donuts. Hard to talk.
(43:29):
It is hard to talk. Thanks to both of them
for writing in. We would love to hear from you
as well. You can email us at hello at savor
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
find us on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook all at
savor Pod. We do hope to hear from you. The
savor is a production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media.
(43:52):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thank you as all ways
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way. H
Hello, and welcome to save a protection of I Heart
radio and stuff Media. I'm an Area and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum.
And today we're talking about some of the meat substitute
products that are super in the news right now. Oh
my goodness, yes they are. Yeah, we're specifically talking about
the ones that are really trying to replicate the taste
(00:31):
and uh texture of beef. Right. And as you've probably heard,
Burger King added, Yes, that Burger King of the chain
added an impossible burger to their menu. That's a brand, yes, um,
and that's a brand. We will be talking about a
(00:51):
lot today and right here in Atlantis Bloody Vegan Um.
Probably you've heard of it. I don't know if you're
around Atlanta, certainly it's it's quite a popular vegan restaurant. Yes,
and it's one of its big things is a plant
based burger. And it has attracted these massive lines and
caused massive trouble and even gosh because somebody was waiting
(01:15):
in the line. Oh yeah. My co host over on Smithy,
she she lives near it, and she went during the
Super Bowl. Very great plan, got in with no line
and her consensus was, if I didn't have to wait
in line. Basically that from what I gathered she's she
was saying, if I didn't have to wait in line,
(01:35):
that was great, but I would never wait in line. Um.
But it has been super successful and is opening a
second location soon. Yeah, they offer impossible brand burger patties
and beyond meat brand brought worst. Um. But yeah, they're there.
Their buns and sauces are vegan to like, their entire
restaurant is fast food vegan. And yesterday, as we were
(01:56):
researching this, I ran into somebody who works here, Alyle,
a good friend of ours, and he was like, I
just waited in line at Popeye's And I was like why,
and he told me all about the feud about chicken sandwiches. Oh,
the Twitter feud. We're so behind the time it was.
(02:16):
I had read about it, but I hadn't. Actually, I
think that I had noticed that it was happening, but
I didn't look into it. And I got a hearty
chuckle at my desk this afternoon about it, because Yeah,
apparently Popeyees has been advertising their new chicken sandwich. It's
not an alternative chicken, it's just regular chicken sandwich. Um.
And the main comparison has been to Chick file AT's
(02:37):
chicken sandwich, and then Chick fil A tweeted that like
like oh man like loved the original, and Popeyes like
retweeted it with y'all good. And then Wendy's Gotten the
Fray and then Zaxby's got in there and it was
sake shack. Yeah, it was a whole bunch. It was.
(02:58):
It was. But I you know, I recommend looking at
if you like social media feuds between big corporations. UM. So,
I was very confused about the whole thing yesterday. But
we are not talking about that specifically. Um we are
talking about yeah, meat alternatives. And I did want to
bring up recently We're at podcasts conference in Orlando podcast Movement, Yes,
(03:20):
which is a conference, and our boss Connell ordered an
impossible burger at one of the restaurants in the venue. Yeah. Yeah,
Beth Anne and Connell both both ordered one. They did.
I have had one, and it was good. That's all
I seemed to remember. It was good. This whole thing
reminded me. I'll never forget the time I went to
one of my best friend's house and I was nine
(03:40):
and her mom always kind of had the weird you
know food. She was the one that you associated with
the stranger foods as a kid, and she offered me
meatless meatballs. And they'll look on my face. They just
paradigm shift, I'm sure and blew your little mind because
as a kid I didn't know, like in there, it's
(04:01):
meatless meat. You've said a number of words that don't
make sense next to each other. Exactly, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
My mom was big on plant proteins. I was eating
tofu like regularly by the time I was five or so. Um.
But I don't think I had like a meat substitute
product until middle or high school, which was a soy
based burger at Epcot, which I did not enjoy. Um.
(04:26):
But I mean this was also like like mid nineties,
like the technology had not really know, there has been
a lot of inovation. Oh goodness, my gracious yes. Um. Now,
I was pretty big on bean burger's post college, until
I realized that I can't have bell pepper, y'all. They
dang all have bell pepper in them, and it makes
me so mad because I like a bean burger. They're tasty,
(04:47):
they are tasty. Gosh um. I've not had an impossible
or a beyond burger. Um, I meant to go get
one last night, but the evening just got away from
me from Burger King. No, I was going to go.
They have one over at Argosy, which is cool little
restaurant down in East Atlanta Village that actually one of
my roommates works at. So I used to make pretty regularly. Um,
sweet potato and Lintel burgersd them. Oh man, it sounds weird,
(05:11):
but something happens and it was really good anyway. Okay,
let's get to our question. I don't even know what
the question is. Meat substitute, Burger's burger, burger, beef burger substitutes,
what are they? Well? Um, uh, you know, interest in
(05:32):
non meat proteins goes back like thousands of years. Um,
this is not a new thing, and as food technologies
have developed, humans have created any number of different plant
based products that try in various ways to approximate the
taste and texture of meats. Lots of other plant based
products don't try to do that, which is also just fine,
but yeah, separate categories. These products have generally been packaged,
(05:55):
frozen and sold to consumers or or two eateries to
be thought and heated on site or or in homes.
Um And you know that's fine, But but freezing foods
does impact the texture and the flavor, and never really
for the better. So a few companies right now are
working on plant based meat substitutes that can be sold
fresh and cooked the way that you cook fresh meats,
(06:16):
and that approximate the experience of eating meat, especially beef,
more closely than their predecessors. And yes, they are making
a lot of headlines. Um and the two they contenders
here in the United States are the aforementioned Impossible Foods
and Beyond Meat. Yes, both of these companies offer fresh,
preformed burger patties that can be cooked like beef burgers.
(06:39):
They brown like beef. They even bleed a little when
you cut or bite into them. Yeah. Yeah, bleeding beef,
bleeding beef. Yep. It's if you see a description, it's
a quote around bleeding and then one around beef, not
together separately. The names I tell you, the names Beyond Meat,
(06:59):
Impossible Burger, Incredible Burger, Awesome Burger. In some states, there
is pending legislation over the use of the word meat
and products that do not involve actual meat from slaughtered animals.
I believe one state has already passed it, and there's
twenty one states looking into it. The meat industries, Oh yeah, lobbying,
it's a lot exactly. And it's the same thing like
(07:21):
with milk. Yeah yeah, And I okay, like I kind
of love this. I mean I I dislike that time
and money in our government is being, in my personal consideration,
kind of wasted on on something that. Okay, I mean
like like not to underscore the importance of of clarity
and labeling because like, if you're confused about whether product
(07:44):
contains meat, like that's not helping anyone. No, no, like
you want to be clear about it. Um. But yeah,
just I don't know like some of it. So if
it gets so ridiculous, like all right. The New York
Times reported that this one representative from Mississippi who has
tried to let slate against this whole nut milk thing
um that the word milk being on nut milks and
(08:05):
on labels. Um. He said, almonds don't produce milk. He
doesn't know that for sure. It depends, it all depends.
I mean, it's true that almonds don't lactate. But that's true.
I mean but he also said, Man, I'm a little
bit saucy about this. He said, the fake lab produced
(08:27):
meat is a little bit more of a science fiction
type deal. That concerns me more. Oh, I'm sort of like, oh, man,
like calm down, like find something else to be mad about.
There's a lot of stuff to be mad about right now.
The world is on fire, plant based meat is not. Yeah,
I pick a different issue. Yeah, anyway, that's that's a
(08:48):
representative Bill Piggott friends, just in case you or someone
that you know lives in Mississippi and might be interested
in voting for humans who have a slightly more science
and less scare tactic uh form of communication in their legislation.
I don't know, I don't know. Vote however you want.
Just vote. Yes, I'm getting way off. Finger at me
(09:12):
very aggressively. I will aren't. Okay, good, good andie, thank you,
We welcome. Yeah, let's get to nutrition. Yeah. So, this
current generation of meatless burger is actually pretty similar to
beef burgers in terms of macronutrients. Four ounds impossible beyond
or regular old beef burger. All have roughly the same
(09:34):
number of calories total fat, saturated fat, and protein. The
only real difference comes in that the meatless products contain
a little bit of carbs and dietary fiber, whereas meat
burgers do not. Micronutrients are where the products do differ. Um.
I had a hard time finding specifics for beyond but
um but impossible has an even wider and deeper spread
(09:56):
of vitamins and minerals than beef does. Specifically lots of
thiamon beat and I think if you know, those are
things you're looking for. I did read um a lot
of articles saying that this is one of the biggest
hurdles of of these specific brands is that when people
cotton onto oh, it's actually the same amount of like calories. Yeah,
(10:18):
it's not healthier, it's not lower, and I mean health
has health is a big issue, right yeah, But I
mean people decide to to a skew meat for multiple reasons.
Sure you I've always said askew oh man, you learned
(10:38):
something every day life life lessons all over the place.
It's true, It's true. Um, but okay, so so yeah,
so if not nutrition, then why choose a non meat product.
I don't know what I do I do oh okay, yeah, yeah,
(10:59):
because because humans turn to vegetarian and vegan options for
all kinds of reasons, you know, concerns over the treatment
of animals, moral quandaries about eating animals, religion, health cost,
environmental impact. But yeah, again, talking specifically today about about
products meant to mimic the experience of eating beef. Um.
(11:20):
Those products are coming up because the beef industry is
specifically problematic. Um Like, okay, meat, meat is a luxury um,
and beef in particular is a status product, and we
eat a lot of it, especially as we as humans
are not like any and me, especially as we gain
the means to do so. Like the world population has
(11:41):
more than doubled since the early nineteen sixties, but meat
production has quintupled in that time. Um. And although the
per capita consumption of beef has been pretty much on
the decline in the United States since the nineteen seventies,
it's still four times higher here than the world average,
and it's been increasing in developing nations. Wow. Yeah, I
(12:06):
was researching why why meat is manly the other day
and oh yeah, yeah, that's going to be a spenty episode. Yeah,
and there's a lot there there. Um. Part of the
popularity of these products. Beyond vegetarians and megans having an
option on menus is people wanting to make an environmentally
(12:27):
friendly choice, especially right now, that seems to be kind
of the big thing. One of the main pushes, UM,
a meat tasting alternative for people who love beef but
are environmentally minded, because you have to think, like, if
it is like a meat alternative, it is a lot
of people. They're targeting people who eat meat. Yeah yeah, um,
(12:47):
because Okay, growing cattle takes a lot of resources, like
a shocking amount of resources um. Eleven thousand gallons of
water per year per cow, um. Ten times as much
vegetation goes into growing beef as it would take for
us to just get those calories from vegetation. Uh. To
create a kilo of beef about two point two pounds.
The cattle industry creates the same amount of carbon dioxide
(13:10):
emissions that the average European car would every fifty five
miles or two kilometers for metric friends. UH. Cattle burps
and farts make up ten percent of total global greenhouse
gas emissions. Like, I think that's more than the entire
transportation industry combined. UM. All other types of meat production
(13:30):
combined only make up another eight percent. So cattle is
like sort of this very separate, very intense problem there. Um,
beef is seven times more land in greenhouse gas intensive
to grow than chicken, and it's twenty times more so
than beans. The Center for Sustainable Systems at the University
of Michigan conducted a study that was commissioned by Beyond
(13:52):
Meat from Staphoya that I found that compared to a
quarter pound beef burger, a plant based burger produces less
greenhouse gas emissions, calls for less energy, impacts water scarcity less,
and has less of an impact on land usage. Hoof
Fast Company found that if Americans at large switched to
(14:14):
plant based burgers, it would be the same as removing
at twelve million cars from the roads for an entire year.
Who Yeah, the impossible aims to get rid of the
need for animals for meat by and that is a
big aim. Like projections put world meat consumption doubling by
due to population and economic growth. But but but but
(14:36):
who knows, I mean, like this is this it could
be a seat change. Beyond Meat founder Ethan Brown said
that when survey Beyond purchasers reported also buying traditional meat
during the same period, and a survey about Impossible show
that seventy people who ordered their burgers from menus are
meat eaters. So who knows, y'all, who knows, But it
(14:59):
is big deal because apparently this shocked to me. Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaking of numbers, the average American eats three burgers a week.
I know, I can't. I'm like, I'm trying to think
of the last time I had a burger. I don't know.
I'm like maybe I have maybe like one per quarter. Yeah,
what's going on? What are you doing? I mean, it
(15:23):
is delicious. One pole from Politico found that banning meat
did worse than any other issues surveyed. Oh wow, Like
they were like that that is our least favorite of
any terrible option. Yeah, and I think no joke. I
think isis was on there. You're like, oh, don't you
dig away my meat? Tech? Okay, And we have seen
(15:46):
this play out in our politics recently. They're coming for
your burgers. These burgers, um, like we said, are pretty
much targeted to meat eaters. So that's kind of a problem. Uh, impossible,
even as a list of don't slight quote, we don't
say vegan, we are for meat eaters. We don't meet shame.
We are not political. However, another study found that given
(16:07):
plant based burgers tasted the same as burgers made with meat,
six of consumers would still go for the meat version.
I think my dad is someone who would have done this,
And I think it's about like suspicion or bad experiences,
like past bad experiences. Yeah, yeah, I mean based on
that Epcot burger, I like, I wouldn't have eaten another
(16:30):
one of those for years, right. Yeah. When it comes
to meatless burgers, Morningstar Farms, owned by Kellogg, has the
largest market share, but that share is decreasing. Meat substitute
retail sales hit eight million dollars over the year long
period ending May twenty this year. Yeah here in the
United States, I believe. Yeah. Um. And here in the US,
(16:51):
sales of meat step substitutes have increased since during the
same period, traditional meat sales only increase, and globally, meat
substitute sales are protected to grow by bye. So this
is not just an American thing that was happening, not
at all though, just for just for contrast, So, the
(17:14):
global meat substitute market was worth one point five billion
as of that's a lot. Yes, the conventional meat market
was I shouldn't say meat market, should I the conventional
may share. You guys know what I mean. The conventional
meat market was one five trillion. Oh, so my brain
(17:35):
is not still still a drop in the bucket comparatively. Yes,
after getting approval from the FDA here in the US,
the Impossible Burger could be grocery stores as soon as September,
which is a month from recording this. In May, Beyond
Meat had the best I p O often so far,
which I don't know much about IP was, but I
(17:56):
know that's a big deal. Initial public offering. Yes, it's
a financial thing. Yes sure. In June, Beyond Meat stock
price was going for five hundred percent above the initial offering.
The Impossible Burger is available in fifteen thousand restaurants. They've
raised over seven fifty million dollars and are worth an
estimated two billion dollars. Beyond Meat, on the other hand,
(18:18):
has the market value of nine billion dollars at its
highest it was fourteen billion. It's available at fifty three
thousand restaurants. But the Impossible Burger outsells the Beyond Meat
Burger three to one. At Bearer Burger which has both
options on the menu Impossible Burger they have They make
one point five million pounds of meat alternative a month.
(18:40):
Oh and Beyond has products and thirty thousand grocery stores,
restaurants and schools. Um and they can be found in
the United States, Canada, the UK, Italy, and Israel. UM
Impossible employees about four hundred and forty people. One hundred
and ten of those are in research and development, and
they spend is doing things like smelling, smelling different combinations
(19:04):
like cheese and salami, trying to hone in on the
scent of meat. It's amazing. Beyond Beyond Meats Lab has
sixty three R and D employees. I love it. Yeah,
that's so cool. Um Burger King's chief marketing officer, so
take this with a grain of salt, told The New
York Times that customers and even employees have not been
(19:24):
able to tell the difference between the meatless Impossible Whopper
and the classic beef variety. Their commercial certainly implies that
that I'll have no idea beyond meat and Impossible Burger.
And this is huge new They're vuying for the big one,
the King McDonald. Yes, yes, some Europe and McDonald's I
(19:49):
think in Germany have the Incredible Burger, which is similar
to yeah, yeah, yeah, the Incredible Burger being a nest
Lely product being sold there under the Garden Gourmet brand.
A former McDonald's CEO is on the Beyond Meat board. So,
but the problem is the logistics of producing enough meatless
(20:11):
burgers to meet McDonald's level of demand. It complicates any
potential deals. Oh of course, and uh, you know Impossible
has run into this with their Burger King deal. Yes,
shortages have dogged most brands of meatless meat. As the
Impossible Burger was debuting on the Burger King menut of
its listed restaurant locations didn't have any supply, and when
(20:34):
the search for a and WS Beyond Burger reached a
fever pitch, it drew in. Jessica Chas stay as an investor,
and you can see, like, if you're interested at all,
you can go on Twitter and see complaint after complaint
uh at Impossible Burger Beyond Meat for shortages And I
can't believe you're expanding when I without Yeah, yeah, but
(20:58):
we're going to talk about that a little bit more
or later we will, Yeah, we're going to get into
some history for you, but first we're going to take
a quick break for a word from our sponsor. And
we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. So meat
(21:19):
alternatives do go way back. We've done episodes on tofu
and satan, so check those out if you're interested. And
and tempa my favorite. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Tofu is
of course, a soy based, Satan is a wheat gluten product,
and tempa is fungus based. Most modern meat substitutes are
based on one or more of these products, with satan
(21:41):
really being the only one meant to like replicate the
texture of meat and poultry specifically. And we've talked about
this before, but go over it briefly in J. H. Killogg,
John Harvey Killick. Oh, that guy, that guy, Lauscha pia
based food called Nuttos touted as a substitute for quote,
(22:03):
flesh foods, flesh foods, gosh, yes, um, and these earlier
alternatives that he was part of. They were meant to
taste plain, not to over stimulate your senses because you
might go straight to hell. Oh yeah yeah, watch watch
out for flavors. They're they're a pathway to sin. Yeah,
(22:24):
talking about satan kell I arrived at this this nutos
after many experiments. The first prototype pro tos he described
as resembling quote, potted veal or chicken. It has a
distinctly media odor and flavor. When a bit is torn
off and chewed, it shows a distinct fiber. It is
of such consistency that it may be masticated like tender meat,
(22:47):
and when cooked retains its form as does meat. What
I understand. This was still available until a couple of
years ago. Um he made over a million dollars in
mock meat sales one year. Who was a big deal? Yeah.
In nineteen nine, Worthington Foods released their soiloin steak meatless Wieners,
(23:08):
and Worthington would go on to become Morning Star owned
by Yeah. The first commercial burger Garden Burger came out
in nineteen eighty five in the United States. That same
year in the UK corn Quorn and also maybe not
that same year I I saw. I always confused how
(23:30):
this happens, but a lot of different dates. But sometime
in this area came on the shelves um and part
composed of fucus in the fermentation park. Yeah, tempest style
sure yep in Garden Burger, I had to include. This
aired a one point five million dollar animated commercial voiced
by Samuel L. Jackson during the season finale of Seinfeld,
(23:55):
and they saw surge and sales afterwards. Not just the
most anti Reese fact that I think we've ever had
on the show. When I saw, I knew it had
to be in here, like a Seinfeld fact in the
Alternative Meat episode Yes Please, It's Beautiful. Beyond Meat was
founded in two thousand nine by one Ethan Brown, a
(24:17):
former clean energy executive who grew up on partially on
the dairy farm that his parents co owned, and Bill
Gates was an early investor and Twitter's co founder biz Stone,
and at first, Beyond Meat was working on developing chicken substitutes.
Brown had actually been working on such a project since
the nineteen eighties. But yeah, they they brought a couple
(24:38):
formulas to market in the early twenty teens. They had
their chicken strips at Whole Foods nationwide. By meanwhile, Impossible
Foods was founded in Tleven by Dr Pat Brown no
relation um, a former Howard Hughes Medical Institute investigator. Their
their investigator program supports biomedical research and also a four
(25:00):
professor of biochemistry at Stanford. He apparently went vegan in
or after college and had been like pondering ever since
how he might help reduce the world's meat consumption. Bill
gates back to this one too, and they've gotten cash
infusions from celebrities like Jay Zachevor, Noah, Katie Perry, Jaden Smith,
and Swery Williams. In. A Dutch researcher by the name
(25:23):
of Mark Post made the in vitro burger, a three
hundred thousand dollar burger made of cultured councils. Yeah, the
technology has dropped way down in price since then. Uh.
Making one in the lab costs about like eleven bucks
now Yeah, although it's still not considered commercially viable. Um.
(25:43):
And estimates for such a product's debut within the next
year or so, they think it's going to come to market. Um,
but the cost ranges around like like fifty dollars projected
per burger. Wild companies are working out production processes. Wow.
And then beyond meat debuts beast burger, beast burger, beast burger. Yeah, okay, yep, gosh,
(26:07):
you gotta have a name in this game. Lauren, You've
got to have a good name. Uh. When the first
Whole Foods that sold Beyond Meat put their first shipment
out in May, it's sold out by six pm Wow,
same day, Yeah um and Yeah. Beyond Meats early strategy
was to push to get their product into supermarkets directly
(26:30):
in front of consumers. UM. Later in steen Tyson Foods,
you know supermarket major Yes brand Um invested an undisclosed
amount in exchange for a five percent steak in the company,
and they've since sold it hypothetically to get in on
their own competing product Injury. I know n YCS Mama
(26:53):
Fuku Ni she started selling the Impossible Burger in July.
This was part of impossible marketing campaign to generate millennial
buzz um by getting these big name chefs on board
with the product. In seventeen, Beyond Meats big supermarket push
really hit its first breakthrough. That's when CEO Ethan Brown
(27:17):
cooked up a sample platter of his burgers for the
meat buyer executives from the more mainstream grocery chain safe way,
not that Whole Foods isn't mainstream, but you know, it's
kind of a specialty thing. Uh. He had been yeah, yeah,
trying to get his burgers displayed in their fresh meat aisles. Uh.
Over over two stores and they finally agreed. Um. Apparently
(27:39):
they were skeptical. Brown told the magazine Courts, one guy
takes one bite, throws it in the trash and says,
I'm in. I like that guy from this little I
know about him. I do mm hmm. In late fast
food chain Whitecastle began selling Impossible Burger sliders, and in
(27:59):
January are twenty nineteen fast food chain Carl's Jr. Debut
beyond Meat burgers and over a thousand restaurants. Wow, huh,
I've never eaten it either of those pots. Carl's Carls Jr.
Is more of a West Coast thing. White Castle is
traditionally more like Northern But I think you can. You
can find them around. I think I can. I think
(28:23):
I can. I believe in you, Annie, Thank you. Also
in January, Impossible launched their version two point oh more versatile.
You could stew it, you could braise it, you could
and they supposedly developed this in response to early tests
with Burger King, who said that the Impossible patties crumbled
over their open flame broiling process. Unlike beef patties um
(28:44):
so yeah, Impossible swapped their their wheat proteins out for
soy proteins. Yes. In February, Impossible launched in Singapore that
already been in Hong Kong for a few months. And
apparently they're just doing rip roar and business out there.
And in the spring of twenty nineteen, Beyond Meat discontinued
those chicken strips. They say that they're they're working on
(29:07):
a new formula, a new formula. This is all happening
right now, I know. And speaking of yeah, in April
of this year, Burger Kick introduced their Impossible Whopper at
fifty nine stores um and also fast casual chain Red
Robin debuted Impossible patties at all five seventy of their locations.
(29:27):
Huh yeah. And this is where that shortage stuff comes in.
Although there's been a problem on and off for a while,
Impossible address the shortage in quote. We sincerely apologize to
all customers, particularly those who have come to depend on
the additional foot traffic and revenue that the Impossible Burger
has generated. Burger King has also run into some problems,
(29:49):
being called out for not being one percent vegetarian since
the patty is cooked on the same grill as their
meat products. Yeah, they're also not vegan. They do um
still put the Mayo Whopper. Yeah, but after Burger King's
month long trial, they did announced they would be rolling
the Impossible Burger out at all of their United States stores.
(30:12):
There you go, hoof, there you go. Also also in April,
uh nest Lee launched their European brand Incredible Burger in
grocery stores in Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, Germany, the Netherlands, Norway,
and Sweden. Just to start with, just to start Cuba.
The Mexican chain Text Mex plans to start offering Impossible
(30:33):
at its seven and thirty restaurants this year, and in
June of twenty nineteen, Nestle announced that they will launch
their American entry into the field The Awesome Burger just
fall under Sweet Earth and I love that they like
rebranded and reformulated for the American market and it went
from being the Incredible Burger to the Awesome Burger. I
(30:57):
feel like they have our number. We got the Impossible,
beyond awesome, awesome. I tell you, you gotta have a name, dude.
Uh this does pose to shake up the American industry,
as these other companies are startups and and Nestley is not. No. Um.
They also say that their product will contain no saturated fat.
(31:19):
I'm not sure how that would work. I mean, food
sciences is pretty wild, but yeah, I'm very skeptical. Also
in the future, Impossible is planning fish mimicking products than
pork and chicken, and they're also looking at dairy and
uh beyond Meat has a goal of getting at least
(31:41):
one of their products to a cheaper price point than
the animal alternative. Yeah, so a lot to look forward to. Yeah,
maybe who knows, who knows? I don't know. Now I'm
getting concerned. I don't know why. Most of the stuff
we talked about, like how it's Heyday, like a hundred
(32:03):
years ago. So this is really this is really weird.
This is a this is a fun kind of kind
of anxious feeling that I'm having right now. Fun anxious feeling.
I think that's how we can describe ourselves. Oh gosh, yeah,
I know, that's just that's yeah, that's every day. But
we do have some fun not necessarily anxious science for you.
(32:26):
But but but first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
you sponsoring, Yes, thank you. So science, how do these
companies build a burger that acts like a burger but
(32:48):
is not made of beef? I don't know. Well, identifying
the the genes qua of beef is some serious science.
Researchers at these firms are like reverse engineering the burger
by investigating what flavor and color compounds exist in beef
and what proteins and fats give it its texture, and
(33:08):
then they go looking for plant sources for those substitutes.
Makes sense beyond meats products use use p and other
lagume proteins, rice protein and potato starch, coconut oil, cocoa, butter,
beat juice extract is that is that blood color? Their
sausage products are colored with fruit extracts. Nestle's forthcoming product
(33:29):
sounds pretty similar. Impossible, uh since their two point o
revolution uh now uses soy and potato proteins and coconut
oil plus A plus a few other things. But they're
they're secret ingredient and by secret, I mean they announced
it all over the place. Um is a compound called
hem um. I think I'm assuming I'm saying that correctly.
(33:50):
It's it's spelled h E M E and yeah, heam
contains the the iron that gives beef it's red color
and some of it's kind of savory flavor. He occurs
in both animals and plants in a class of proteins
called globin's. It's in our blood contained in hemoglobin. Probably
heard of it, and muscles have it in myoglobin, and
(34:10):
the roots of soy plants have it in leg hemoglobin. Yes,
so cool harvested from soy plants vegetarian solution. There's a
lot of subsidies for producing soy. All good, right right Nope? Um.
An acre of soy plants would yield just a kilo
of leg hemoglobin. So they mass produce it using genetically
(34:32):
modified yeast cultures. Uh. And this is a common manufacturing
technique for all kinds of food compounds. And in this
particular case, they take the species of yeast called Pecia
pastorus I think, and they give it the gene that
soy plants used to make like hemoglobin. Um. They then
grow just big old populations of this east and labs um.
The yeast eats sugar in minerals and it produces the protein,
(34:55):
which can then be harvested. I couldn't figure out whether
the leg hemoglobin is grown in the yeast or if
it's excreted as a byproduct. I'm not sure. If it's excreted,
then yeast poop. If not, you know, then take it back. Yeah,
then take back the yeast poop. No, sorry about it.
Sorry to enter yeast poop uncertainty into the conversation. Here
(35:20):
we go perfect um, And Yeah, it is a more
environmentally and cost friendly method than growing all that soy
would be. And it's way more that stuff friendly than
grown cattle. So like hemoglobin is a new substance in
human diets, and there was a kerfuffle over whether the
FDA was going to grant it generally recognized as safe
(35:43):
status UM. Preliminary studies in vitro and in animals checked
out UM, and eventually the FDA gave him the complicated
stamp of approval that they have no questions as to
the veracity of impossible claims that like hemoglobin should be
generally recognized as safe under the intended consumption conditions. No questions.
(36:07):
It's a good thing intended consumption conditions. Yeah, I don't
know that I always fall within that box super positive
that you don't friend UM as as a Matt Simon,
writing for for Wired, pointed out that this is part
of a larger question into how these bleeding edge products
(36:29):
pun completely intended UM should go through safety testing. A
lot of it is voluntary and up to the companies
and UM. Then the the actual yeah, it's it's it's complicated,
it's complicated. Yeah. Other controversies ah Man Impossible used animal
testing UM A hundred and eighteen lab rats in there,
(36:52):
like hiboglobin studies, and Peter went after them. Peter was
un happy. Yeah, I mean Pete is usual land it's
about to say, but yeah, yeah, yeah UM. Also, the
soy that Impossible is using is genetically modified, which some
people have a problem with. And I don't think any
of these popular products are entirely organic, which some probably
(37:14):
overlapping people have a problem with. UM though I will
say that you know, GMO products as a whole are
in no way inferior, two, or more dangerous than conventional products,
and the term organic UM is wide enough to be
essentially meaningless UM without looking into these specific farming techniques
being used for the ingredients that are going into these things.
It is impossible to say whether these products are less
(37:38):
good than like non GMO or organic products would be.
So every time you said impossible is this oh oh,
I missed that one, it's impossible to say is oh gosh.
I I applaud them for the names, because it's really
(37:59):
fun to read news items where you just every other
word is impossible, are awesome beyond yeah? Well this one.
I feel like we're gonna, you know, a couple of
years from now updates. Absolutely so much is happening yeah,
and so fast um, and I think faster than then
(38:22):
even these companies thought it would so yeah, And who knows.
By the time you hear this, something could have changed,
something could have changed. A lot of articles out there
about this. There are oh gosh, there's a lot of
reading to be done if you are curious about it.
There there's a lot more so much, yeah, so much.
(38:44):
But for now, cap on it. Yeah, yeah, yes, And
it brings us to not impossible at all, no, no,
for two people to coordinate a odd racial the podcast
not impossible, sometimes difficult. Claire wrote, I was so excited
(39:12):
when you called out to French folks during your Salad episode.
To write in about French salad timing. At last, I
finally have a legit reason to write in to one
of my absolute favorite podcasts, Thank You. I am half French,
was born there, but grew up in the States. However,
I was lucky enough to spend most of my summers
in France while I was growing up, and try to
get back there as often as possible now that I'm
an adult. So I can't speak of the country as
(39:34):
a whole, I can tell you that in my family
and most other homes and restaurants I visited in France,
the salad follows the main course. Here's how most meals
go down, at least with the Goussaud clan. If we're
feeling fancy, we might start with a small appetizer like
a slice of cantalope, silver of kiche, or soup. Main course,
which is some sort of standard meat, grain of edge, combo,
(39:57):
salad time jeez, or yogurt assert which is usually just
a piece of fruit unless it's a special occasion for us.
The salad is usually a very simple green salad made
with freeze or whatever type of lettuce is fresh and
available at the time. Before we all sit down to dinner.
Someone will make a vinegrette in the bottom of a
large salad bowl, using oil, vinegar, mustard, salt, pepper, and
(40:17):
whichever herbs are on hand well, then put the washed
lettuce on top. That way, the salad and vineagrette are
ready to toss together just before eating and doesn't get soggy.
Very clever fun anecdote. My grandfather loved salad and insisted
on having it with pretty much every meal while he
was alive. He had an endearing habit of pretending that
he only wanted a little bit as we passed the
(40:39):
bowl around for second helpings, but then serving himself a
heaping plateful. He would modestly say, oh, just a petite few,
or oh, I'll just have a little leaf, and then
polish off half the bowl. Even though my grandma pretended
that she didn't like the salad that much and just
ate it because he always wanted it, she has now
picked up the same habit. We all got together last
(41:00):
summer to celebrate my grandmother's ninetieth birthday with a big,
fancy meal. The birthday dinner was held at a beautiful
auberge near our family home in the Alps. We hiked
in together, shared a gourmet meal, and spent the night
there before hiking out in the morning. Before the big event,
my cousins and I, all in our twenties and early thirties,
decide have a little game of goosard family bingo during
dinner without letting the parents in on it. We predicted
(41:23):
all the things we thought were likely to happen over
the course of the meal, and each placed bets on
how many of them would come to pass. One of
my cousins was keeping scoreing to the table during dinner.
We all bet on my grandma doing her justin few
bit with the salad, and she did not disappoint. That's amazing,
(41:45):
Laura wrote, I just listened to your picnic episode and
was reminded of my favorite picnic story. Last year, I
threw hiked the Appalachian Trail, so for six months nearly
all of my meals were technically picnics. However, they were
very sad picnics, usually consisting of tortillas with peanut butter
and some dried fruit, or just pop tarts and granola bars.
(42:05):
When my friend and I realized all of our meals
were sad picnics, we made a list of our favorite
picnic foods and decided to buy those items at our
next resupply so that we could enjoy a real picnic
on trail. Next resupply, we bought hummus, non pe shoots,
baby carrots, kalamata olives, grapes, blueberries, dates, and dark chocolate
and set off with our obscenely heavy packs. We knew
(42:28):
we wouldn't make it far with our packs so loaded
with fresh food, nor did we have any means refrigeration,
so we had to have our picnic sooner rather than later. However,
it would not stop raining that day story of the
entire summer of eighteen for the US Eastern Seaboard, and
we couldn't unpack our lovely picnic spread in the driving rain.
The trail happened to take us through a small town
(42:48):
in Pennsylvania that day, so we ended up having our
picnic inside a gas station Duncantonuts. We added iced coffee
and blueberry donuts to the spread because it through hikers
hunger knows no limits. We definitely got some strange looks
from employees and other through hikers, but to us it
felt like a dream to have picnic foods and surprise Duncan.
(43:09):
At the same time, it was a relief to learn
from your episode that historical picnics did not always occur outdoors.
Otherwise my favorite one would have been invalidated. That's lovely,
That is lovely. What a wonderful picnic. Oh gosh, and
surprised Donuts. Yeah, surprised Ice Coffee. Surprised Donuts. Hard to talk.
(43:29):
It is hard to talk. Thanks to both of them
for writing in. We would love to hear from you
as well. You can email us at hello at savor
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
find us on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook all at
savor Pod. We do hope to hear from you. The
savor is a production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media.
(43:52):
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can visit
the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thank you as all ways
to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks
to you for listening, and we hope that lots more
good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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