July 22, 2020 • 34 mins
Edna Lewis was a Black Southern chef and writer who deeply influenced the movement toward fresh, seasonal American cuisine. Anney and Lauren dip into the life, career, and legacy of this sometimes unsung culinary hero.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to favorite production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about Edna Lewis. Yes, it's been a long time
since we've done a profile of deliciousness as we call them. Yes,
uh yeah, And we wanted to feature Edna Lewis because
(00:27):
she was a chef and writer who, as a black
woman from the American South, helped elevate fresh seasonal American
cooking UM in a time when that combination of things
wasn't even really considered to exist. She's considered a bit
of a of a like chef's chef um like. Even
(00:48):
though her work was impressive and had a lot of
impact on chefs in America UM and on people who
teach chefs in America, she's unfortunately a little bit of
like a like a cult figure um like like, meaning
that although she was well known and respected in industry circles,
she she never became the sort of public figure that
some chefs doing similar work at the time did. Yeah.
(01:13):
And um, I I had never heard of her, And
I feel like you you have a lot more knowledge
of of these people in in the cooking world than
I do. I remember when we did like our food
TV one, I had heard of maybe two people. It's
just like a big I didn't have Food Network, And honestly,
(01:36):
like it's funny to me, it's almost like when I
admit to people I don't really listen to podcast I
I just never even though I love food and I'm
fascinated with it, I never really read books or watch
TV about it. And I still don't unless it's for
this job. Sure, yeah, that I think that that's a
danger as a like professional day job podcaster UM or
(02:00):
or you know, um human who does a lot of
writing in in any given field. Is that you know,
like by the time I'm done with my day, I
do not want to listen to another podcast. I don't
want to read about more food stuff. I want to
like binge, watch five episodes of Supernatural and go to sleep. Yes,
(02:22):
this is the darkest secret of the podcaster you kin reveal.
I hate it when people ask me, like, what the
podcast do you listen to? Um? I do have some.
I do have some, but but it's an extremely curated list. Yeah. Yeah,
And I'm very glad that you brought Edna Lewis to
my attention. Um, and yeah, you kind of you jumped
(02:46):
in and answered my question before I could even ask it. Lauren,
you're so eager I was, I was, But but do
you do you want to ask it? Anyway? As a
transition into her biography, you know, I suppose I will, Lauren,
for for how we we want to uphold our traditions
(03:09):
here right, for formality's sake? Exactly? So Edna Lewis, who
was she? Who? But she well, I get to be
you for a second. Um. Edna Lewis was born in
a Freetown, Virginia, in April nineteen six, one of eight children,
(03:33):
and Freetown was a small town populated by formally enslaved
people after emancipation, in part founded by her grandfather. Yeah,
his family was one of three that founded Freetown. Um.
She she calls it a village, really a farming community.
And these families built a town from scratch. At church
and entertainment hall, it's yearly holidays. He also opened the
(03:57):
first school and Freetown and held classes in his living room.
Her grandmother had been enslaved as a brick mason, and Yeah,
Louis was close with her family and her grandfather she
she wrote about her grandparents previous lives. When they were enslaved.
Their family was all close um in a big house
that her grandparents built to keep everyone close together. Her
(04:21):
her grandfather, parents, three sisters, two brothers, and cousins who
quote stayed with us from time to time. As a child,
Edna worked on her grandfather's farm, which introduced her to
food production at a really early age. H Yeah. Freetown
aimed to be as self sufficient as possible, growing almost
all of their food um. They tried to only purchase
(04:43):
things like sugar and flour and coffee things that required
like specialty growing and processing. So Lewis's early life was
steeped in a seasonal food and eating. Yes. And one
of my this is one of my favorite things I
read about her at the time. I'm as she was
learning to cook, there weren't a lot of modern cooking
(05:04):
tools available to her, but she didn't let us in
her way, and she used these creative solutions like like
um using coins to measure things in place of measuring
cups and spoons. The legend goes that she knew a
cake was done by the sounds it made, which I love,
I love that. I mean, I can. I can give
(05:26):
a cake at a solid finger poke and be like, oh,
that's the right texture. But I have never I cannot
do that. That's not not my skill. Nope me. After
the death of her father when she was sixteen, Lewis
moved to Washington, d C. For a brief period, and
then to New York City, where she got a job
as a laundress. However, she had never ironed before, and
(05:48):
within three hours she was fired. I have been there,
she so though. And she found a job quickly after
as a seamstress. And she made quite a reputation for
herself for her work for celebrities and her West African
inspired dresses. Yeah, like she was sort of a big deal.
She sewed for Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, and she also campaigned
(06:09):
for FDR and she had a series of other odd jobs. Uh.
In a two five documentary about her called Fried Chicken
and Sweet Potato Pie, she talks about how during this
time she she felt alienated as a as a black
woman living in the North. She did meet and marry
(06:31):
her husband, Steve Kingston there, and he was an activist
and a communist, and she spoke very little about him
on the record um or about her ties, especially through
him UM to the American Communist Party, although she did
say that the Communist Party USA were the only people
(06:53):
encouraging black people in New York City at the time
to to really participate in their community. UM. One of
the odd jobs that she held was typing for the
party's paper, The Daily Worker. That's right. UM. In she
was hired as the head chef of a New French
inspired restaurant called Cafe Nicholson and Manhattan's East Side. Yeah,
(07:17):
her friends John Nicholson and a photographer by the name
of Carl Bissinger opened it up, UM, and they all
knew each other through the Communist Party. UM. They invited
her to come run their kitchen, and this was a
big deal. This was when female chefs were rare, and
black women as chefs were even rarer. The restaurant was
popular among the posh celebrity crowd, with patrons like Marlon Brando,
(07:38):
Greta Garbo, Eleanor Roosevelt, Tennessee Williams, and Salvador Dolly, which,
by the way, Lauren, has Paul ever told you about
his idea for a Salvador Dolly themed food Chuck that
would be amazing. Uh, Dolly, I am, I am I
(08:00):
remembering this? Right? Did he write a cookbook? Am I
thinking of Kurt Vonnegut? What's going on in my brain
right now? But I I approve of this idea of
Paul's and I wanted to happen. I do too. He's
got a whole pitch. It's pun based. Please reach out
to him, let him explain it to you. It's excellent.
I'm mad. I didn't think of it. Oh, shall do?
(08:21):
Shall do? Yes? Uh? But anyway, while this restaurant was
French inspired, uh ed. The Lewis frequently prepared Southern dishes
there too. Allegedly, Truman Capode would please with her to
make biscuits, and her chocolate souffle was a well known
signature dish, but people there assumed that she had trained
(08:43):
in France, um, including fellow Southerner William Faulkner. She did
this for three years before she left the post, though
she remained on as a business partner. She began cultivating
her personal brand and career, lecturing at the American Museum
of Natural Street, for instance. She also took prominent jobs
(09:03):
as a chef and private caterer, and uh it was
it was a big deal that even some of what
she was cooking at the time was Southern cuisine. Um,
other black chefs and chefs from the South considered those
dishes to be kind of like only for for home cooking.
She and her husband around the same time also owned
(09:23):
and operated a pheasant farm, UM, which was around unsuccess
I mean pheasant farm. I've already got some alarms on
cons uh yeah, but uh yeah. She she reportedly left
(09:44):
Cafe Nicholson at her husband's urging. Um. Nicholson would later
say that um that her husband, as Steve Kingston, was
sort of always going on about how she should be
making her food for the common people, not the bourgeoisie.
M h. In nineteen seventy two, she wrote that Edna
Lewis cookbook with the help of socialite Evangeline Peterson, and
(10:06):
it focused on bringing fresh, seasonal ingredients to American homes. Yeah,
the food scene in America was blossoming at the time,
as we've talked about in a few different different episodes here. Uh,
partially thanks to the work of folks like James Beard
and Julia Child and this first cookbook that Lewis wrote,
UM featured a wide range of European and euro American recipes. UM.
(10:30):
You know that that the repertoire of an urban and
sophisticated chef, UM, along with a few Southern classics. UM.
Her husband passed away while she was writing the book, though,
and I do not believe that she ever remarried. Right
before the book published, while taking a break from professional
cooking after suffering a broken leg, she met Judith Jones,
(10:53):
who was a well known cookbook editor who had worked
with Julia Child. Jones encouraged Lewis to incorporate more of
her own voice in her next project, and Lewis took note,
and her next book did just that. And we'll get
into that, but first we're gonna pause for a quick
break for word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank
(11:20):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you, uh so Yes. Judith Jones
really worked with Edna Lewis um to to encourage her
to get these these stories that she would tell about
about cooking, about her her life growing up, UM down
on the page the way that she she talked about them.
(11:41):
So The Taste of Country Cooking debuted in nineteen seventy six,
and it featured memories from her childhood, food traditions from
the South, and influences and themes of her African American heritage.
And this book frequently gets credit for being the first
of a series of cookbooks that showcased all that Southern
food can be, that it was something to be respected
(12:01):
instead of something looked down on. And her voice in
it is just so strong, um I wanted to read
a quick passage of from so so. The book is
split up into into seasons, and there are frequently these
long descriptions of how her her meals and recipes came
about um, in addition to the actual recipes themselves and
(12:24):
so UM. At the at the top of the book
and in the Spring section, she writes, breakfast was about
the best part of the day. There was an almost
mysterious feeling about passing through the night and awakening to
a new day. Everyone greeted each other in the morning
with gladness and a real sense of gratefulness to see
the new day. If it was a particularly beautiful morning.
(12:46):
It was expressed in the grace. Spring would bring our
first and just about only fish chad. It would always
be served for breakfast, soaked in salt water for an
hour or so, rolled in seasoned corn meal and fried
carefully and home rendered lard with a slice of smoked
shoulder for added flavor. There are crispy fried white potatoes,
fried onions, batter, bread, any food left over from supper,
(13:08):
BlackBerry jelly, delicious hot coffee and cocoa for the children.
And perhaps if a neighbor dropped in dandelion, wine was added.
With the morning feeding of the animals out of the way,
breakfast was enjoyable and leisurely. Ah, that's beautiful. And the
book is just full of this prose. Um. Uh yeah,
(13:30):
and and and like I said, so, so the recipes
are divided into seasons, um, and they are as much
stories as they are recipes. Um. You've got entries like
an early spring dinner after sheep sharing um featuring braised
mutton ribs with thyme and onion, skillet, cooked wild asparagus,
a salad of beet tops and other garden greens, potato
(13:51):
yeast rolls, lment which is a creamy like almond and
vanilla geltin dessert, and butter cookies. Um. For summer, there's
making ice cream on a summer afternoon featuring vanilla custard
and peach ice creams. UH. Morning after Hog Butchering, Breakfast
from the Fall, and a dinner celebrating the last of
the barnyard foul for the winter. A lot of the
(14:13):
stories in the book reference older technologies and methods like
wood stoves, stuff like that, but the recipes themselves are
revised for for modern cooks and modern kitchens. And this
this cookbook is considered to be the first entry in
like Neuvelle's Southern cookbooks soon to be booming business. Um,
the same way that Nouvelle Cuisine in France was at
(14:36):
the time refocusing on on taking like taking good ingredients
and not mucking them about too much. UM that that's
what these recipes were doing for Southern cooking. UM. It's
it's something that from a food and cooking standpoint, the
American public was kind of hungry for. Um. You know,
you were coming off of decades of just increased industrialization
(14:58):
of food of convenience foods. UH. Seventy six was the
same year, um, that this book came out, that Alice
Waters debuted an American menu at Japanese. On top of that,
is one of the first American cookbooks authored by a
black woman to reach a national audience. Yeah, this, this
book was really revolutionary and in a number of ways. Um.
(15:19):
You know, remember that it was coming out within a
decade of the national laws and rulings that banned discrimination
based on race and skin color. Um in a racial
marriage had only been legalized nine years previous in nineteen
sixty seven, the abolition of poll taxes, which were one
of the many ways that formerly Confederate slaveholding states actively
(15:42):
prevented Black Americans from accessing their equal rights after emancipation. Um.
And that it only happened ten years previous in nineteen
sixty six. The civil rights movement had put this kind
of monolithic view of the culture of the South on
the national stage in a very negative light. Um of you,
(16:02):
partially left over from the Civil War, UM of Southerners
being poor and ignorant. Um. And simultaneously, over the few
decades leading up to this um, there had arisen this
like myth of the gentility of the white Antebellum South,
you know, like gone with the wind, all that kind
(16:23):
of stuff. And these two narrow beamed views of Southern
culture really ignore and and e race. The actual lived
experience of Southern people, and especially black Southerners, and and
these views persist today, but but books like Louis's fight
(16:45):
against them by showing people that these cultures are valid
and beautiful and like, yeah, complicated, but but not to
be ignored or raced. Um. You know. It shows that
America does have cuisine, and it's Southern cuisine, and it
exists thanks to black people. Mm hmm. In Lewis followed
(17:11):
the taste of country cooking with in pursuit of flavor.
Uh yeah. Also also with them the the encouragement of
Juith Jones, who she would remain friends with the rest
of her life. While she did spend a good chunk
of her career cooking in the South, she did move
to New York to work at Gage and Tolner, which
was a restaurant in Brooklyn, when she was seventy two,
(17:33):
but she moved to Georgia in the nineteen nineties to
retire from restaurants at least. Yeah. During that decade, she
and a coalition of friends formed the Society for the
Revival and Preservation of Southern Food, with the goal of
sharing traditional Southern recipes and preparations. She became a friend
(17:54):
and mentor to Scott Peacock, who was the head chef
at the Georgia Governor's Mansion, and the two of them
were together to write The Gift of Southern Cooking, Recipes
and Revelations from two Great American Cooks, which was published
in two thousand three. Uh. Peacock and Lewis we were
great friends. And for the last few years of Louis's
life they lived together in Decatur, Georgia, which is just
(18:15):
kind of down the street from US UM, with him
acting as her caretaker. Uh. And he's a white gay
chef who was born in nineteen sixty three. Um. They
were an interesting pair. UH. But she had never had
any children or or made that much money from her work.
And she died in two thousand and six, just short
(18:36):
of her ninetieth birthday. That same year, the thirtieth edition
of The Taste of Country Cooking was released with a
foreword by Alice Waters. Over the span of her life,
she accumulated a lot of awards. In Johnson and Wales
awarded her with an honorary PhD and Culinary Arts in
(18:58):
she received the James Beard Living Budge an award Nadom.
The Scoffier International named her a grand dum Grand James
I was saying, And she became the first recipient of
the Southern Food Wasys Alliances Lifetime Achievement Award. Her face
was on a stamp, which I know, compared to those
other things might not be super cool, but I love it.
I think that's awesome. No. Absolutely. In a book of
(19:21):
essays celebrating Lewis written by professional chefs, food writers, educators,
friends and family called Edna Lewis at the table with
an American original came out. Um and uh. Some of
these essays and uh, some other journalistic pieces that have
been written about Louis explore the notion that that although
(19:42):
she she did intensely influence American cuisine through her writing
about provincial American life, um, there's also a lot that
we don't know about her. Um. And in all likelihood,
she was a lot more complicated than this image that's
often painted of her as this grand dame of the
healthy in days of Southern cooking. Uh. Or maybe that
(20:04):
she aspired to be that straightforward, that that's what she
wanted for the world. In two posthumous Lee Gourmet Magazine
published an essay that Lewis had written way back, titled
what is Southern? It was it was lost, her friends
found it and submitted for publication. Uh and it's been
(20:28):
called something of a manifesto. Uh and I'd like to
read a couple of passages from it here. Um. Southern
is Bessie Smith, Give me a pig foot and a
bottle of beer. Southern is a great yeast roll the
doe put down overnight to rise, and the next morning
shaped into rolls and baked, served hot from the oven.
There is light as a dandelion in a high wind.
(20:50):
Southern is a sun dog, something like a rainbow or
the man in the moon on a late summer afternoon.
Southern is a mint julip, a goblet of crushed dice
with a sprig of mint tucked in the side of
the glass. Plain sugar syrup the consistency of kerosene poured
over the ice. Then a jigger of bourbon. Stir and
bruise the mint with a silver spoon, Sip and enjoy.
(21:12):
Southern is a hot summer day that brings on a
violent thunderstore, cooling the air and bringing up smells of
earth that tempts us to eat the soil. Southern is
Tennessee Williams in street car Southern is a springhouse filled
with perishables, kept cool by a stream running through and
a spring keeper. A salamander is they're watching over and Uh.
(21:33):
Then the the last the last paragraph of the of
the essay Southern is all the unsung heroes who passed
away in obscurity. So many great souls have passed off
the scene. The world has changed. We are now faced
with picking up the pieces and trying to put them
into shape, document them so the present day young generation
can see what Southern food was like. The foundation on
(21:57):
which it rested was pure ingredients, open pollinated seed, planted
and replanted for generations, natural fertilizers. We grew the seeds
of what we ate. We worked with love and care.
My heart is swelling. Oh yeah, she she was a
(22:20):
really incredible writer. I I very highly recommend um definitely
picking up the taste of country cooking and the collection
of essays is is great as well. Um. Edna Lewis
at the table with an American original. Uh. In reading
through those essays, Uh, Doctor Jessica Harris came up, Yeah
(22:44):
and like a lot of them. Uh, and I was
I was really proud that we got that interview. Uh
and um uh just thinking about how she's doing, and
I hope she's doing okay. Yeah, her name comes up
a lot and in research that we do for sure.
Oh yeah, oh yeah absolutely. I'm I'm kind of glad
(23:06):
that I didn't know exactly how big of a deal
she was when we went in there, because I would
have been even more terrified. Yes, yes, um, but yeah,
I definitely been moved by the things I've read by
Edna Lewis, and I'm really glad we talked about her,
and I think that it will be one of the
(23:29):
books that I actually am going to read for fun
and not for work. Yes, I aspire to to do
that thing all the way through as well myself. Yes, yes, um.
And that brings us to the end of this episode.
But we do have a little bit more for you,
(23:49):
we do. But first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with listeners. I feel nice
(24:13):
and like I'm out in a meadow and I'm doing
kind of the like Princess swing around. She takes in
the beauty and the animals around her. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah. Good.
Uh one of those good like animation crane shots that
I always really respect. Yeah, exactly exactly. I'm glad I
(24:34):
had captured at least a part of it. Anthony wrote
regarding mole. During a listener mail, it was mentioned that
the writer's mother used peanut butter and her mole in
culinary school. We had a few weeks of text next
Cuisine with a heavy focus on Mexican. During my research,
I did find that mole is as diverse as a
Marcela spice blend can be in Indian families or regions,
(24:56):
meaning every family or region can have a different approach
to making mole. Malay can be made with chopped, crush
or ground nuts. Recipes I uncovered and cooked while in
culinary Arts called for cacao and crushed almonds. I remember
this specifically as I can recall that while the flavor
was beautiful, I was not a fan of the texture
the almonds left. I wish I had ground them more,
perhaps into an almond butter, before adding it to the malay.
(25:19):
I hope my experiences with malay can answer the writer's
question about peanut butter and mola. For me, this seems
like a logical substitution for other ground nuts that can
be added to malaise. With regards to mispronunciation, I can't
remember the podcast, but I believe Annie mentioned Jacomo but
pronounced it gackamo. That sounds like me. I won't deny it.
(25:41):
I remember because I made the same mistake once in
front of my wife's family. Being Italian, myself and my
wife of first generation Italian American, her mom was worn
in Italy. I was heavily tastized and grad we're saying
it wrong. It's hard enough to convince people I am
really Italian and a redhead, but not being able to
speak the language just fortifies to them that I'm lying
(26:03):
about my heritage. The common nickname for Jackomo is jack. Yes.
I can't believe I've heard that. I don't know what
I was doing, but the pronunciation should be similar. Every
Italian will argue that their dialection region are the correct ones,
but I've kind to learn that the pronunciation is more
like jacomo. Now don't say too fast. The oh is
(26:24):
drawn out to a long oh sound. Oh. Now I'm
in my head the jack part sounds just like Jacques
with a sound. I just thought I would help just
in case Annie meets the love for her life and
his name is Jacobo. Thank you. Um. The story that
rained me in on my culinary career obsessions with the
(26:44):
story of capers. And I was in Italy walking the
cliffs of Oh, You've given me another thing to pronounce
Capri with my wife and her mom. I noticed an
overgrown plant growing out of the side of a wall.
The plant had little berries on it. I asked my
mother in law what it was and she told me
that it was a caper plant. Being a stupid American,
I wanted to pick them. She immediately hit my hand
(27:05):
and it felt as if she had a hidden wooden
spoon with her. It hurts. Side note. I firmly believe
every Italian woman has a wooden spoon on her at
all times to hit the man and they are stupid.
But maybe that's just me. I have so many welts
from wooden spoons. She told me they were poisonous, that
they needed to be brined first before we can eat them.
Having known that capers have been around four thousands of years,
(27:27):
my mind asked itself a spiritual question. How thousands of
years ago did they figure out that this poisonous berry
was edible if they brinded it from there? I was hooked.
I am unsure how legit A bit my story is
on capers, but perhaps a caper episode would be nice
to have. Yes, I am hooked. This is exactly this
is what got me into this podcasting gig. Is this
(27:50):
I've got to find out now, I've got to know. Yeah.
Oh and and that is that is on our short list? Um,
for for sure. I'm just waiting free day when I
have an attention to truly concentrate on the caper. Yes,
and I already my my brain is like pawns, pawns funds,
so many caper funds to be made. Also, I'm I'm
(28:14):
on certain that my future love of my life will
be named Jacomo. And you have saved me a great barriss.
I could have lost him forever. Yeah, but now, but
now now I am saved. I look forward to our
happy future, living happily ever after with Jacomo. Um Hannah wrote,
(28:42):
I've been listening to you two for quite a while.
I think maybe since the beginning of food stuff days.
I've never written in before, but felt compelled to after
the listener mail to episode where someone wrote in asking
if we don't have Australian thick shakes in the United States.
I felt the need to set the record straight my credentials.
I'm from the US and had been working at a
cafe in Australia before the pandemic forced me to come
(29:05):
back home. So an Australian milkshake is basically just milk
blended with some flavoring. Usually there's a singular scoop of
ice cream thrown in there, or if you're at the
place I worked, whipped cream when you run out of
ice cream. But the point is that it is flavored
and slightly creamier and frothier than plain old milk. An
Australian thick shake has a few more scoops of ice
(29:26):
cream and is more similar to an American milkshake, blended
concoction of ice cream and milk that can be too
thick to really be drunk through a straw, but you
try anyway before sometimes giving up and going for the spoon.
I never found thick shakes to be as thick as
I remember milkshakes being in the US. But to be fair,
I'm no kind of sore unrelated to milkshakes. Because of
(29:48):
the pandemic and not going to the grocery stores often
as we used to, my parents and I have been
going through the cabinets and seeing what we could make
with whatever we find. One thing we found was two
cans of poppy seed phil While I was a little
wary of the best by date being in, we figured
the can was still intact and wasn't bulging or anything,
so it would probably be okay. We made ham and tashin.
(30:11):
I hadn't had them since I was a kid and
had never made them myself, so it was a fun experiment.
They turned out really well, but only used half the
can of poppy seeds. I think my dad ate the
rest of it on toast. Hopefully we remember to use
the other can before another five years passes. We've also
been cooking some Austrian, Ukrainian and Jewish foods and an
(30:31):
attempt to connect a little bit with our family history.
My grandfather immigrated to the States in the late nineteen thirties.
I never met him, but my mom remembers him talking
about plum dumplings, so that was the first thing we tried.
The ones we made didn't stick together quite right, and
we ended up with some plums and empty dough shells
floating and boiling water. Hopefully we can get it to
(30:51):
work better next time. Yes, I've never heard of that,
but that sounds really good, right yeah. Oh and I have, um,
I have like a lot of apricots right now. Um.
One of my friends got like a box of food
from one of these places. It's trying to distribute food
to to humans who need it right now. Um. And uh,
(31:14):
you know she works in theater. She and many of
my friends are are humans who are very glad to
have these services happening um in our community right now.
But she also just perceived like a heck in flat
of apricots, and she was like, dude, please take some
of these apricots. Oh. So I'm thinking I've been I've
(31:36):
been thinking about making a cobbler, but now I'm like,
what if I make a dumpling? Oh? Also, okay, right,
I've got I've got a suggestion all right here, hear
me out. Um. Okay, So I had a bit of
a mix up the other day where I was I
was doing curbs. I pick up of some alcohol okay,
(32:00):
And I was using an app it's all online, and
there was a mix up, and I wasn't mad about
it because, uh, you know what, it wasn't worth getting
mad about whatever. Yeah, we're all doing just the best
that we can under troubled times. Yeah, I can wait
for my box of wine. It's okay. So I was
sitting there and that my trunk was open, and I'm
(32:21):
just feeling all like all this weight being added and
I'm thinking and I did not order that much. I
don't know what's going on. So I get back to
my apartment. I opened the trunk. They for some reason.
I can't figure out if they did this because they
felt bad or that it was another order mix up. Um,
there's I have an entire case of huge handles of
vodka now oh like not like the wine boat, like
(32:44):
the big junks. I got a whole thing. Um, I
didn't pay for it, for sure. So what if we
did something with africas and vodka? What if we combine
our excess and make something that could potentially you really gross,
sound exciting. Look up some recipes I've made. I've made
(33:09):
like a like a sour orange wine from like macerated
sour oranges in vodka before Uh, maybe maybe it could
work similarly. I'm not you know, I can check it out. Yeah,
but she should also definitely make cobbler and jumplings that
(33:30):
probably be better than whatever we would get out of
that experience. But also, if you just want some vodka,
I will give you some. Yeah. Yeah, let me know.
That sounds great. I'm not going to turn it down. Well,
If any listeners seriously as any suggestions for what to
do with either or both of those things, um, please
(33:51):
send them to us. Thanks so much for these listeners
are writing in you can email us. Our email is
Hello at Savior pod dot com. We're also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
savor pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
to my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(34:14):
favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to favorite production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we're
talking about Edna Lewis. Yes, it's been a long time
since we've done a profile of deliciousness as we call them. Yes,
uh yeah, And we wanted to feature Edna Lewis because
(00:27):
she was a chef and writer who, as a black
woman from the American South, helped elevate fresh seasonal American
cooking UM in a time when that combination of things
wasn't even really considered to exist. She's considered a bit
of a of a like chef's chef um like. Even
(00:48):
though her work was impressive and had a lot of
impact on chefs in America UM and on people who
teach chefs in America, she's unfortunately a little bit of
like a like a cult figure um like like, meaning
that although she was well known and respected in industry circles,
she she never became the sort of public figure that
some chefs doing similar work at the time did. Yeah.
(01:13):
And um, I I had never heard of her, And
I feel like you you have a lot more knowledge
of of these people in in the cooking world than
I do. I remember when we did like our food
TV one, I had heard of maybe two people. It's
just like a big I didn't have Food Network, And honestly,
(01:36):
like it's funny to me, it's almost like when I
admit to people I don't really listen to podcast I
I just never even though I love food and I'm
fascinated with it, I never really read books or watch
TV about it. And I still don't unless it's for
this job. Sure, yeah, that I think that that's a
danger as a like professional day job podcaster UM or
(02:00):
or you know, um human who does a lot of
writing in in any given field. Is that you know,
like by the time I'm done with my day, I
do not want to listen to another podcast. I don't
want to read about more food stuff. I want to
like binge, watch five episodes of Supernatural and go to sleep. Yes,
(02:22):
this is the darkest secret of the podcaster you kin reveal.
I hate it when people ask me, like, what the
podcast do you listen to? Um? I do have some.
I do have some, but but it's an extremely curated list. Yeah. Yeah,
And I'm very glad that you brought Edna Lewis to
my attention. Um, and yeah, you kind of you jumped
(02:46):
in and answered my question before I could even ask it. Lauren,
you're so eager I was, I was, But but do
you do you want to ask it? Anyway? As a
transition into her biography, you know, I suppose I will, Lauren,
for for how we we want to uphold our traditions
(03:09):
here right, for formality's sake? Exactly? So Edna Lewis, who
was she? Who? But she well, I get to be
you for a second. Um. Edna Lewis was born in
a Freetown, Virginia, in April nineteen six, one of eight children,
(03:33):
and Freetown was a small town populated by formally enslaved
people after emancipation, in part founded by her grandfather. Yeah,
his family was one of three that founded Freetown. Um.
She she calls it a village, really a farming community.
And these families built a town from scratch. At church
and entertainment hall, it's yearly holidays. He also opened the
(03:57):
first school and Freetown and held classes in his living room.
Her grandmother had been enslaved as a brick mason, and Yeah,
Louis was close with her family and her grandfather she
she wrote about her grandparents previous lives. When they were enslaved.
Their family was all close um in a big house
that her grandparents built to keep everyone close together. Her
(04:21):
her grandfather, parents, three sisters, two brothers, and cousins who
quote stayed with us from time to time. As a child,
Edna worked on her grandfather's farm, which introduced her to
food production at a really early age. H Yeah. Freetown
aimed to be as self sufficient as possible, growing almost
all of their food um. They tried to only purchase
(04:43):
things like sugar and flour and coffee things that required
like specialty growing and processing. So Lewis's early life was
steeped in a seasonal food and eating. Yes. And one
of my this is one of my favorite things I
read about her at the time. I'm as she was
learning to cook, there weren't a lot of modern cooking
(05:04):
tools available to her, but she didn't let us in
her way, and she used these creative solutions like like
um using coins to measure things in place of measuring
cups and spoons. The legend goes that she knew a
cake was done by the sounds it made, which I love,
I love that. I mean, I can. I can give
(05:26):
a cake at a solid finger poke and be like, oh,
that's the right texture. But I have never I cannot
do that. That's not not my skill. Nope me. After
the death of her father when she was sixteen, Lewis
moved to Washington, d C. For a brief period, and
then to New York City, where she got a job
as a laundress. However, she had never ironed before, and
(05:48):
within three hours she was fired. I have been there,
she so though. And she found a job quickly after
as a seamstress. And she made quite a reputation for
herself for her work for celebrities and her West African
inspired dresses. Yeah, like she was sort of a big deal.
She sewed for Marilyn Monroe. Yeah, and she also campaigned
(06:09):
for FDR and she had a series of other odd jobs. Uh.
In a two five documentary about her called Fried Chicken
and Sweet Potato Pie, she talks about how during this
time she she felt alienated as a as a black
woman living in the North. She did meet and marry
(06:31):
her husband, Steve Kingston there, and he was an activist
and a communist, and she spoke very little about him
on the record um or about her ties, especially through
him UM to the American Communist Party, although she did
say that the Communist Party USA were the only people
(06:53):
encouraging black people in New York City at the time
to to really participate in their community. UM. One of
the odd jobs that she held was typing for the
party's paper, The Daily Worker. That's right. UM. In she
was hired as the head chef of a New French
inspired restaurant called Cafe Nicholson and Manhattan's East Side. Yeah,
(07:17):
her friends John Nicholson and a photographer by the name
of Carl Bissinger opened it up, UM, and they all
knew each other through the Communist Party. UM. They invited
her to come run their kitchen, and this was a
big deal. This was when female chefs were rare, and
black women as chefs were even rarer. The restaurant was
popular among the posh celebrity crowd, with patrons like Marlon Brando,
(07:38):
Greta Garbo, Eleanor Roosevelt, Tennessee Williams, and Salvador Dolly, which,
by the way, Lauren, has Paul ever told you about
his idea for a Salvador Dolly themed food Chuck that
would be amazing. Uh, Dolly, I am, I am I
(08:00):
remembering this? Right? Did he write a cookbook? Am I
thinking of Kurt Vonnegut? What's going on in my brain
right now? But I I approve of this idea of
Paul's and I wanted to happen. I do too. He's
got a whole pitch. It's pun based. Please reach out
to him, let him explain it to you. It's excellent.
I'm mad. I didn't think of it. Oh, shall do?
(08:21):
Shall do? Yes? Uh? But anyway, while this restaurant was
French inspired, uh ed. The Lewis frequently prepared Southern dishes
there too. Allegedly, Truman Capode would please with her to
make biscuits, and her chocolate souffle was a well known
signature dish, but people there assumed that she had trained
(08:43):
in France, um, including fellow Southerner William Faulkner. She did
this for three years before she left the post, though
she remained on as a business partner. She began cultivating
her personal brand and career, lecturing at the American Museum
of Natural Street, for instance. She also took prominent jobs
(09:03):
as a chef and private caterer, and uh it was
it was a big deal that even some of what
she was cooking at the time was Southern cuisine. Um,
other black chefs and chefs from the South considered those
dishes to be kind of like only for for home cooking.
She and her husband around the same time also owned
(09:23):
and operated a pheasant farm, UM, which was around unsuccess
I mean pheasant farm. I've already got some alarms on
cons uh yeah, but uh yeah. She she reportedly left
(09:44):
Cafe Nicholson at her husband's urging. Um. Nicholson would later
say that um that her husband, as Steve Kingston, was
sort of always going on about how she should be
making her food for the common people, not the bourgeoisie.
M h. In nineteen seventy two, she wrote that Edna
Lewis cookbook with the help of socialite Evangeline Peterson, and
(10:06):
it focused on bringing fresh, seasonal ingredients to American homes. Yeah,
the food scene in America was blossoming at the time,
as we've talked about in a few different different episodes here. Uh,
partially thanks to the work of folks like James Beard
and Julia Child and this first cookbook that Lewis wrote,
UM featured a wide range of European and euro American recipes. UM.
(10:30):
You know that that the repertoire of an urban and
sophisticated chef, UM, along with a few Southern classics. UM.
Her husband passed away while she was writing the book, though,
and I do not believe that she ever remarried. Right
before the book published, while taking a break from professional
cooking after suffering a broken leg, she met Judith Jones,
(10:53):
who was a well known cookbook editor who had worked
with Julia Child. Jones encouraged Lewis to incorporate more of
her own voice in her next project, and Lewis took note,
and her next book did just that. And we'll get
into that, but first we're gonna pause for a quick
break for word from our sponsor. And we're back. Thank
(11:20):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you, uh so Yes. Judith Jones
really worked with Edna Lewis um to to encourage her
to get these these stories that she would tell about
about cooking, about her her life growing up, UM down
on the page the way that she she talked about them.
(11:41):
So The Taste of Country Cooking debuted in nineteen seventy six,
and it featured memories from her childhood, food traditions from
the South, and influences and themes of her African American heritage.
And this book frequently gets credit for being the first
of a series of cookbooks that showcased all that Southern
food can be, that it was something to be respected
(12:01):
instead of something looked down on. And her voice in
it is just so strong, um I wanted to read
a quick passage of from so so. The book is
split up into into seasons, and there are frequently these
long descriptions of how her her meals and recipes came
about um, in addition to the actual recipes themselves and
(12:24):
so UM. At the at the top of the book
and in the Spring section, she writes, breakfast was about
the best part of the day. There was an almost
mysterious feeling about passing through the night and awakening to
a new day. Everyone greeted each other in the morning
with gladness and a real sense of gratefulness to see
the new day. If it was a particularly beautiful morning.
(12:46):
It was expressed in the grace. Spring would bring our
first and just about only fish chad. It would always
be served for breakfast, soaked in salt water for an
hour or so, rolled in seasoned corn meal and fried
carefully and home rendered lard with a slice of smoked
shoulder for added flavor. There are crispy fried white potatoes,
fried onions, batter, bread, any food left over from supper,
(13:08):
BlackBerry jelly, delicious hot coffee and cocoa for the children.
And perhaps if a neighbor dropped in dandelion, wine was added.
With the morning feeding of the animals out of the way,
breakfast was enjoyable and leisurely. Ah, that's beautiful. And the
book is just full of this prose. Um. Uh yeah,
(13:30):
and and and like I said, so, so the recipes
are divided into seasons, um, and they are as much
stories as they are recipes. Um. You've got entries like
an early spring dinner after sheep sharing um featuring braised
mutton ribs with thyme and onion, skillet, cooked wild asparagus,
a salad of beet tops and other garden greens, potato
(13:51):
yeast rolls, lment which is a creamy like almond and
vanilla geltin dessert, and butter cookies. Um. For summer, there's
making ice cream on a summer afternoon featuring vanilla custard
and peach ice creams. UH. Morning after Hog Butchering, Breakfast
from the Fall, and a dinner celebrating the last of
the barnyard foul for the winter. A lot of the
(14:13):
stories in the book reference older technologies and methods like
wood stoves, stuff like that, but the recipes themselves are
revised for for modern cooks and modern kitchens. And this
this cookbook is considered to be the first entry in
like Neuvelle's Southern cookbooks soon to be booming business. Um,
the same way that Nouvelle Cuisine in France was at
(14:36):
the time refocusing on on taking like taking good ingredients
and not mucking them about too much. UM that that's
what these recipes were doing for Southern cooking. UM. It's
it's something that from a food and cooking standpoint, the
American public was kind of hungry for. Um. You know,
you were coming off of decades of just increased industrialization
(14:58):
of food of convenience foods. UH. Seventy six was the
same year, um, that this book came out, that Alice
Waters debuted an American menu at Japanese. On top of that,
is one of the first American cookbooks authored by a
black woman to reach a national audience. Yeah, this, this
book was really revolutionary and in a number of ways. Um.
(15:19):
You know, remember that it was coming out within a
decade of the national laws and rulings that banned discrimination
based on race and skin color. Um in a racial
marriage had only been legalized nine years previous in nineteen
sixty seven, the abolition of poll taxes, which were one
of the many ways that formerly Confederate slaveholding states actively
(15:42):
prevented Black Americans from accessing their equal rights after emancipation. Um.
And that it only happened ten years previous in nineteen
sixty six. The civil rights movement had put this kind
of monolithic view of the culture of the South on
the national stage in a very negative light. Um of you,
(16:02):
partially left over from the Civil War, UM of Southerners
being poor and ignorant. Um. And simultaneously, over the few
decades leading up to this um, there had arisen this
like myth of the gentility of the white Antebellum South,
you know, like gone with the wind, all that kind
(16:23):
of stuff. And these two narrow beamed views of Southern
culture really ignore and and e race. The actual lived
experience of Southern people, and especially black Southerners, and and
these views persist today, but but books like Louis's fight
(16:45):
against them by showing people that these cultures are valid
and beautiful and like, yeah, complicated, but but not to
be ignored or raced. Um. You know. It shows that
America does have cuisine, and it's Southern cuisine, and it
exists thanks to black people. Mm hmm. In Lewis followed
(17:11):
the taste of country cooking with in pursuit of flavor.
Uh yeah. Also also with them the the encouragement of
Juith Jones, who she would remain friends with the rest
of her life. While she did spend a good chunk
of her career cooking in the South, she did move
to New York to work at Gage and Tolner, which
was a restaurant in Brooklyn, when she was seventy two,
(17:33):
but she moved to Georgia in the nineteen nineties to
retire from restaurants at least. Yeah. During that decade, she
and a coalition of friends formed the Society for the
Revival and Preservation of Southern Food, with the goal of
sharing traditional Southern recipes and preparations. She became a friend
(17:54):
and mentor to Scott Peacock, who was the head chef
at the Georgia Governor's Mansion, and the two of them
were together to write The Gift of Southern Cooking, Recipes
and Revelations from two Great American Cooks, which was published
in two thousand three. Uh. Peacock and Lewis we were
great friends. And for the last few years of Louis's
life they lived together in Decatur, Georgia, which is just
(18:15):
kind of down the street from US UM, with him
acting as her caretaker. Uh. And he's a white gay
chef who was born in nineteen sixty three. Um. They
were an interesting pair. UH. But she had never had
any children or or made that much money from her work.
And she died in two thousand and six, just short
(18:36):
of her ninetieth birthday. That same year, the thirtieth edition
of The Taste of Country Cooking was released with a
foreword by Alice Waters. Over the span of her life,
she accumulated a lot of awards. In Johnson and Wales
awarded her with an honorary PhD and Culinary Arts in
(18:58):
she received the James Beard Living Budge an award Nadom.
The Scoffier International named her a grand dum Grand James
I was saying, And she became the first recipient of
the Southern Food Wasys Alliances Lifetime Achievement Award. Her face
was on a stamp, which I know, compared to those
other things might not be super cool, but I love it.
I think that's awesome. No. Absolutely. In a book of
(19:21):
essays celebrating Lewis written by professional chefs, food writers, educators,
friends and family called Edna Lewis at the table with
an American original came out. Um and uh. Some of
these essays and uh, some other journalistic pieces that have
been written about Louis explore the notion that that although
(19:42):
she she did intensely influence American cuisine through her writing
about provincial American life, um, there's also a lot that
we don't know about her. Um. And in all likelihood,
she was a lot more complicated than this image that's
often painted of her as this grand dame of the
healthy in days of Southern cooking. Uh. Or maybe that
(20:04):
she aspired to be that straightforward, that that's what she
wanted for the world. In two posthumous Lee Gourmet Magazine
published an essay that Lewis had written way back, titled
what is Southern? It was it was lost, her friends
found it and submitted for publication. Uh and it's been
(20:28):
called something of a manifesto. Uh and I'd like to
read a couple of passages from it here. Um. Southern
is Bessie Smith, Give me a pig foot and a
bottle of beer. Southern is a great yeast roll the
doe put down overnight to rise, and the next morning
shaped into rolls and baked, served hot from the oven.
There is light as a dandelion in a high wind.
(20:50):
Southern is a sun dog, something like a rainbow or
the man in the moon on a late summer afternoon.
Southern is a mint julip, a goblet of crushed dice
with a sprig of mint tucked in the side of
the glass. Plain sugar syrup the consistency of kerosene poured
over the ice. Then a jigger of bourbon. Stir and
bruise the mint with a silver spoon, Sip and enjoy.
(21:12):
Southern is a hot summer day that brings on a
violent thunderstore, cooling the air and bringing up smells of
earth that tempts us to eat the soil. Southern is
Tennessee Williams in street car Southern is a springhouse filled
with perishables, kept cool by a stream running through and
a spring keeper. A salamander is they're watching over and Uh.
(21:33):
Then the the last the last paragraph of the of
the essay Southern is all the unsung heroes who passed
away in obscurity. So many great souls have passed off
the scene. The world has changed. We are now faced
with picking up the pieces and trying to put them
into shape, document them so the present day young generation
can see what Southern food was like. The foundation on
(21:57):
which it rested was pure ingredients, open pollinated seed, planted
and replanted for generations, natural fertilizers. We grew the seeds
of what we ate. We worked with love and care.
My heart is swelling. Oh yeah, she she was a
(22:20):
really incredible writer. I I very highly recommend um definitely
picking up the taste of country cooking and the collection
of essays is is great as well. Um. Edna Lewis
at the table with an American original. Uh. In reading
through those essays, Uh, Doctor Jessica Harris came up, Yeah
(22:44):
and like a lot of them. Uh, and I was
I was really proud that we got that interview. Uh
and um uh just thinking about how she's doing, and
I hope she's doing okay. Yeah, her name comes up
a lot and in research that we do for sure.
Oh yeah, oh yeah absolutely. I'm I'm kind of glad
(23:06):
that I didn't know exactly how big of a deal
she was when we went in there, because I would
have been even more terrified. Yes, yes, um, but yeah,
I definitely been moved by the things I've read by
Edna Lewis, and I'm really glad we talked about her,
and I think that it will be one of the
(23:29):
books that I actually am going to read for fun
and not for work. Yes, I aspire to to do
that thing all the way through as well myself. Yes, yes, um.
And that brings us to the end of this episode.
But we do have a little bit more for you,
(23:49):
we do. But first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with listeners. I feel nice
(24:13):
and like I'm out in a meadow and I'm doing
kind of the like Princess swing around. She takes in
the beauty and the animals around her. Yeah, yeah, totally yeah. Good.
Uh one of those good like animation crane shots that
I always really respect. Yeah, exactly exactly. I'm glad I
(24:34):
had captured at least a part of it. Anthony wrote
regarding mole. During a listener mail, it was mentioned that
the writer's mother used peanut butter and her mole in
culinary school. We had a few weeks of text next
Cuisine with a heavy focus on Mexican. During my research,
I did find that mole is as diverse as a
Marcela spice blend can be in Indian families or regions,
(24:56):
meaning every family or region can have a different approach
to making mole. Malay can be made with chopped, crush
or ground nuts. Recipes I uncovered and cooked while in
culinary Arts called for cacao and crushed almonds. I remember
this specifically as I can recall that while the flavor
was beautiful, I was not a fan of the texture
the almonds left. I wish I had ground them more,
perhaps into an almond butter, before adding it to the malay.
(25:19):
I hope my experiences with malay can answer the writer's
question about peanut butter and mola. For me, this seems
like a logical substitution for other ground nuts that can
be added to malaise. With regards to mispronunciation, I can't
remember the podcast, but I believe Annie mentioned Jacomo but
pronounced it gackamo. That sounds like me. I won't deny it.
(25:41):
I remember because I made the same mistake once in
front of my wife's family. Being Italian, myself and my
wife of first generation Italian American, her mom was worn
in Italy. I was heavily tastized and grad we're saying
it wrong. It's hard enough to convince people I am
really Italian and a redhead, but not being able to
speak the language just fortifies to them that I'm lying
(26:03):
about my heritage. The common nickname for Jackomo is jack. Yes.
I can't believe I've heard that. I don't know what
I was doing, but the pronunciation should be similar. Every
Italian will argue that their dialection region are the correct ones,
but I've kind to learn that the pronunciation is more
like jacomo. Now don't say too fast. The oh is
(26:24):
drawn out to a long oh sound. Oh. Now I'm
in my head the jack part sounds just like Jacques
with a sound. I just thought I would help just
in case Annie meets the love for her life and
his name is Jacobo. Thank you. Um. The story that
rained me in on my culinary career obsessions with the
(26:44):
story of capers. And I was in Italy walking the
cliffs of Oh, You've given me another thing to pronounce
Capri with my wife and her mom. I noticed an
overgrown plant growing out of the side of a wall.
The plant had little berries on it. I asked my
mother in law what it was and she told me
that it was a caper plant. Being a stupid American,
I wanted to pick them. She immediately hit my hand
(27:05):
and it felt as if she had a hidden wooden
spoon with her. It hurts. Side note. I firmly believe
every Italian woman has a wooden spoon on her at
all times to hit the man and they are stupid.
But maybe that's just me. I have so many welts
from wooden spoons. She told me they were poisonous, that
they needed to be brined first before we can eat them.
Having known that capers have been around four thousands of years,
(27:27):
my mind asked itself a spiritual question. How thousands of
years ago did they figure out that this poisonous berry
was edible if they brinded it from there? I was hooked.
I am unsure how legit A bit my story is
on capers, but perhaps a caper episode would be nice
to have. Yes, I am hooked. This is exactly this
is what got me into this podcasting gig. Is this
(27:50):
I've got to find out now, I've got to know. Yeah.
Oh and and that is that is on our short list? Um,
for for sure. I'm just waiting free day when I
have an attention to truly concentrate on the caper. Yes,
and I already my my brain is like pawns, pawns funds,
so many caper funds to be made. Also, I'm I'm
(28:14):
on certain that my future love of my life will
be named Jacomo. And you have saved me a great barriss.
I could have lost him forever. Yeah, but now, but
now now I am saved. I look forward to our
happy future, living happily ever after with Jacomo. Um Hannah wrote,
(28:42):
I've been listening to you two for quite a while.
I think maybe since the beginning of food stuff days.
I've never written in before, but felt compelled to after
the listener mail to episode where someone wrote in asking
if we don't have Australian thick shakes in the United States.
I felt the need to set the record straight my credentials.
I'm from the US and had been working at a
cafe in Australia before the pandemic forced me to come
(29:05):
back home. So an Australian milkshake is basically just milk
blended with some flavoring. Usually there's a singular scoop of
ice cream thrown in there, or if you're at the
place I worked, whipped cream when you run out of
ice cream. But the point is that it is flavored
and slightly creamier and frothier than plain old milk. An
Australian thick shake has a few more scoops of ice
(29:26):
cream and is more similar to an American milkshake, blended
concoction of ice cream and milk that can be too
thick to really be drunk through a straw, but you
try anyway before sometimes giving up and going for the spoon.
I never found thick shakes to be as thick as
I remember milkshakes being in the US. But to be fair,
I'm no kind of sore unrelated to milkshakes. Because of
(29:48):
the pandemic and not going to the grocery stores often
as we used to, my parents and I have been
going through the cabinets and seeing what we could make
with whatever we find. One thing we found was two
cans of poppy seed phil While I was a little
wary of the best by date being in, we figured
the can was still intact and wasn't bulging or anything,
so it would probably be okay. We made ham and tashin.
(30:11):
I hadn't had them since I was a kid and
had never made them myself, so it was a fun experiment.
They turned out really well, but only used half the
can of poppy seeds. I think my dad ate the
rest of it on toast. Hopefully we remember to use
the other can before another five years passes. We've also
been cooking some Austrian, Ukrainian and Jewish foods and an
(30:31):
attempt to connect a little bit with our family history.
My grandfather immigrated to the States in the late nineteen thirties.
I never met him, but my mom remembers him talking
about plum dumplings, so that was the first thing we tried.
The ones we made didn't stick together quite right, and
we ended up with some plums and empty dough shells
floating and boiling water. Hopefully we can get it to
(30:51):
work better next time. Yes, I've never heard of that,
but that sounds really good, right yeah. Oh and I have, um,
I have like a lot of apricots right now. Um.
One of my friends got like a box of food
from one of these places. It's trying to distribute food
to to humans who need it right now. Um. And uh,
(31:14):
you know she works in theater. She and many of
my friends are are humans who are very glad to
have these services happening um in our community right now.
But she also just perceived like a heck in flat
of apricots, and she was like, dude, please take some
of these apricots. Oh. So I'm thinking I've been I've
(31:36):
been thinking about making a cobbler, but now I'm like,
what if I make a dumpling? Oh? Also, okay, right,
I've got I've got a suggestion all right here, hear
me out. Um. Okay, So I had a bit of
a mix up the other day where I was I
was doing curbs. I pick up of some alcohol okay,
(32:00):
And I was using an app it's all online, and
there was a mix up, and I wasn't mad about
it because, uh, you know what, it wasn't worth getting
mad about whatever. Yeah, we're all doing just the best
that we can under troubled times. Yeah, I can wait
for my box of wine. It's okay. So I was
sitting there and that my trunk was open, and I'm
(32:21):
just feeling all like all this weight being added and
I'm thinking and I did not order that much. I
don't know what's going on. So I get back to
my apartment. I opened the trunk. They for some reason.
I can't figure out if they did this because they
felt bad or that it was another order mix up. Um,
there's I have an entire case of huge handles of
vodka now oh like not like the wine boat, like
(32:44):
the big junks. I got a whole thing. Um, I
didn't pay for it, for sure. So what if we
did something with africas and vodka? What if we combine
our excess and make something that could potentially you really gross,
sound exciting. Look up some recipes I've made. I've made
(33:09):
like a like a sour orange wine from like macerated
sour oranges in vodka before Uh, maybe maybe it could
work similarly. I'm not you know, I can check it out. Yeah,
but she should also definitely make cobbler and jumplings that
(33:30):
probably be better than whatever we would get out of
that experience. But also, if you just want some vodka,
I will give you some. Yeah. Yeah, let me know.
That sounds great. I'm not going to turn it down. Well,
If any listeners seriously as any suggestions for what to
do with either or both of those things, um, please
(33:51):
send them to us. Thanks so much for these listeners
are writing in you can email us. Our email is
Hello at Savior pod dot com. We're also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
savor pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
to my Heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(34:14):
favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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