The Express Espresso Episode

This form of coffee is highly extracted thanks to the specialized, pressurized-steam process of making it. Anney and Lauren pull out the history and science behind espresso.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about espresso. Yes, I could
use an espresso right now. I could use about nine espresso. Yeah,
I don't know. For some reason, I told Lauren this,

(00:29):
I've gotten on this weird mountaineering kick where I'm just
watching all these videosteering So I stayed up late watching that.
I'm so curious about how this came to be. I mean,
I know that you are too, but like I, yeah,
it's just I think it's mostly because I had a

(00:50):
free trial of Paramount Plus first, and then I got
one of i f C second, and they both have
mountaineering documentary. And I'm not entirely sure how I arrived
to that point, but I was just trying to make
the most of my money. Uh what my money? My
free trial or you're not money right? Yeah, my exactly.

(01:13):
But yes, I stayed up quite late watching these, and
I was so tired to like, there was a get
together last night. I really wanted to go. I was
too tired to go, and I was trying to be
an adult, and then I ended up just watching. Hey,
you're allowed, You're allowed to adult however you want a Yeah, yeah, okay,

(01:37):
I will thank you. Um, I just I just I
just love I just love espresso. And it's so comforting
to me. Uh and I and I feel like I
could use that right now, and I could use usually
righte about now is what I'm like. Oh do I
have a cup of coffee? Have I not made myself
a cup of coffee? I should be having a cup

(01:57):
of coffee. This is my like last time to do
that before it would create its last call, last call
for coffee. Mm hmm. Yeah. Well, as you know, I
have my I have to be two and through by
twelve pm. However, Um, I do love I also love espresso.

(02:19):
I used to think when I was younger, I remember
thinking it was so sophisticated, like that was if I
touched it, I would like catch on fire or something,
because I'm not sophisticated, Like my taste buds are not
worthy drink. Um. And I also thought that the caffeine
level was way too high for me. I'm not entirely

(02:40):
sure where I got that idea, um, but I did.
I thought the caffeine was way too high. Um. But
since then, I have had so many lovely espressos and
I love them after a nice dinner or with dessert.
They're just like the most warm sigh I could do
without annoying you listeners. But yeah that's no, no, no,

(03:04):
me me too, and I and I still like, I
guess there's there's few things that make me feel as
just like yeah sophisticated. Then um, then a little cup
of espresso with a little strip of lemon zest and um,
it's there's something really perfect about it. And you know,

(03:26):
like I don't make it at home, so it's uh,
you know, I get that like that like rush of
like someone else has created this for me and served
it to me and I don't know it's so nice. Yeah, yeah,
that's a good point. I don't make it at home either,
and so I associate it with like fancier events or

(03:46):
nicer emain with people with company And I normally drink
things really quickly, but espresso I can go slowly with,
which is nice. Yeah that's funny because like there's like
events about how it's most properly consumed and and like
a lot of people say that you're really supposed to

(04:07):
shoot it. You're really not supposed to sip it. I
sip it too, I'm a sipper. I couldn't shoot it,
at least at this point, at this current stage, I
couldn't do it, but maybe in the future. It's not pleasant.
I don't know me either. Usually when I shoot something,
it's because of what I'm shooting isn't pleasant, Yeah, right right,

(04:33):
I want to savor it anyway, exactly. Okay, so you
can see our past episode we did on coffee was
quite lovely, yes, yes, Also the episode we did on
instant coffee. Sure a lot of you wrote in about Yeah,
probably other things, but those are the two come to mind. Yeah,

(04:53):
um oh goodness. And this one, this one has so many,
so many rabbit holes that I couldn't were didn't go down.
We're gonna have to do entire other episodes on like
espresso machine technology, um, like like modern technology and like
how it's continuing to develop. Um and I don't um

(05:17):
different kind of espresso drinks that you can make. But
these are these are not This is not those episodes,
those many many nitpicky, weird episodes, which for I love
to do in the future. But I guess this brings
us to our question, does espresso what is it? Well,

(05:46):
Espresso is a type of drink made via a specific
process of pushing a small amount of hot, pressurized water
through packed coffee grounds to produce a strong shot of coffee.
The term actually refers to the process. Um. The the
American English espresso UH is a shortening of the original

(06:10):
Italian cafe espresso or espresso style coffee. We decided to
just use it as a noun for the drink to
um and, you can add any number of things, as
I alluded to a moment ago too straight espresso, sweeteners,
steamed milks, flavored syrups to create any number of other drinks. Um.
But that base level espresso is warm and bitter and

(06:33):
a little thicker than normally brewed coffee, dark brown in color,
almost black with them with a little bit of reddish
brown to kind of like honey colored foam on top
called krema. That that adds a little bit to the
to the texture. UM. I know it's weird to say
texture when you're talking about a liquid, but I feel
like the word mouth feel is even weirder. So anyway,

(06:56):
I'll take your pick of weird words. Um and and
espresso has the potential to have a whole range of
flavors all on its own, depending on the beans and
the roast level of the beans and the very precise
way that the espresso was made. Um. You can get
notes from like sweet to savory, floral to fruity, like

(07:19):
caramel to toast. Coffee is a cocktail of flavor molecules,
and espresso is sort of a concentrated coffee. Technically it's
like extra extracted, um, but concentrated works as a loose concept. Um.
It's like espresso is like it's like Robin Williams Genie.

(07:41):
It's like phenomenal cosmic power, eaty bitty living space. You're
so good at this. I'm always impressed with these descriptions
you come up with. Yeah, it's so small, but so

(08:03):
much is packed in there. Yeah yeah, Um. People are
passionate about this stuff. And I would like to UM
to cautiously stress right off that I am not a barista,
nor am I an engineer, um, Nor do I have

(08:23):
personal skin in the game of like whether you want
your water to be a hundred and nine two degrees
fahrenheit or like a hundred and nine three. I do
not have skin in the game of whether you brew
at um eight bar or nine or six? Are you

(08:48):
or lower than that? I would I would never tell
you what to do with with your espresso. I want
you to to to experiment and form your own opinions
and tell us about them extensively. M hm. That was
a nervous agree but yet but yeah now it is, um,

(09:12):
thank you, But my hands are up in the defensive position. Um.
But okay. Very basically, when you're making espresso, it's like
turning everything about a drip coffee maker up to eleven um.
Like more pressure, finer grind less time, go go go. Um.

(09:35):
The idea here is to be able to make a
shot of espresso in five seconds um by compressing steam
into water and just below the boiling point of water
and then forcing it through coffee grounds. Um. But having
a machine that can precisely heat and pressurized water is
really only half the equation. Um. The other half is

(09:58):
like the physics of the ground themselves. Um. So you
grind coffee beans for espresso a lot finer than you
would for regular coffee. Most regular coffee brewing operations call
for like a like a gritty sand like texture. Yeah. Um,
espresso calls for more like a like a powdered sugar
texture very fine. Um. That's because ah, when when you

(10:23):
when you do this, you're increasing the surface area of
the beans for for the water to to hit and
come away with various coffee molecules quickly. Um, which is
what you're looking to do, because only twenty five seconds. Um.
But be uh you're you're looking to to slow down
the water just slightly to give it time to pick

(10:44):
up those molecules. Uh. And went. Coffee grounds, especially when
you grind him real fine, are a non Newtonian fluid um,
meaning that they kind of lock up when you subject
them to stress or can do so, um, lock up
in exactly the way that like water does not. UM.

(11:06):
You might have witnessed this, uh if you have ever
dumped coffee grounds down your sink and suddenly the sink
started backing up, and all you have to do is
kind of swish them around, get them to unlock, and
then they flow right through. Oh. Now I understand a
line from Captain America's Civil War that I never understood before.

(11:29):
Thank you. Tony Stark was so mad because they've been
putting coffee grounds down this posle. I was like, why
I don't do it? But I was never sure why
I didn't do it. So okay, okay, you've solved like
two mysteries from me right here. Yeah. Yeah, like like

(11:49):
like catchup, um, Wet coffee grounds can lock up, um,
which you've also seen if you've ever tried to get
catch up out of a heck and bottle like a weirdo,
I sent some frustration. I may have some pent up
glass bottle catchup frustration. It's true. It's true, um, at

(12:10):
at any rate, at any rate, um. Uh so so right,
by grinding the coffee beans for espresso extra fine and
then tamping them down tight in your in your filter basket, um,
that first little bit of hot water that hits them
actually makes them lock up and like hold onto the

(12:31):
incoming water for just a few extra seconds. Um, strengthening
the brew to the proper espresso level strength. That's so cool.
Espresso physics, espresso as ex I love it. Um. Frequently,
you are also looking to roast your espresso bound beans

(12:52):
to a darker level than you would for normal coffee,
because you're you're looking to bring the oils out for
easy access. Um. The crema by the way, on top
of a shot of espresso. That um, that little bit
of foam, Um is we droplets of coffee bean oil
and other proteins and weird little coffee bits suspended in

(13:16):
water and like a colloidal structure like a like a
whipped cream, but coffee foam, all right, got it? Yeah?
I love coffee foam and whipped cream. So this is great. Yeah,
foams are great. Mm hmmm. So so you do you

(13:40):
do need some special equipment to create espresso. Um, you
need a grinder that's up to the task. The industry
generally recommends burr style grinders for this instead of the
more common blade style grinder. Um and right. You need
a machine that can create steam and pressurize it into
liquid water just below boiling point and then shove it

(14:02):
through fine ground coffee. That's it. Yeah, no big uh.
These machines do come in a few different formats. Um.
There's the sometimes derided stovetop or camp fire type devices
that are really simple, um, like a like a moca pot. Yeah.

(14:25):
Um it's These things are basically just um, just two
chambers with a disk for coffee grounds between them, and
what you do is you fill the bottom chamber with
water and bring that water to a boil, and the
resulting pressure inside the device will push the water UM
up through the grounds and then further up into the

(14:46):
waiting craft. Yeah. Yeah, steam expands pushes the water cool. Uh.
Note that this is only pressurized to like one point
five times the normal air pressure that we humans normally
hang out in UM, and so this drink will be
a little bit more bitter and a little bit thinner

(15:08):
than other types of espresso. Pump style machines meanwhile, also
have a heating chamber where you boil water UM, but
that that steam is then pumped into a small sealed chamber.
This pumping system is capable of pressurizing the steam to
like eight to ten times that of normal air pressure

(15:32):
UM much much more pressurized UM. Under pressure, it condenses
into liquid at right just below boiling temperature, and the
resulting hot water is then released down through your puck
of ground coffee UM, which will have been fitted into
like a handheld device called a porta filter UM, which
also has a spout on the bottom to pour the

(15:52):
brewed espresso out into a little cup. Mm hmm. There
are these are the basics, and there are a law
of variations on this technology. I mean you have probably
noticed that, like the little like countertop device that you
or a friend may have, looks and sounds different from

(16:13):
the thing at a at a coffee shop. The main
difference you're looking at is that there are different kinds
of pumps. UM. A manual pump is old school, but
these days most modern machines have either a UM like
a fancy electric rotary pump UM. Those are the cafe

(16:34):
style machines usually, or a more simple electric vibration pump
with a with a piston. Yeah. Um. Since the world
has gone digital, though, UM computers can control the pressure
and heat of these chambers pretty precisely. UM. There are
different kinds of boilers. Professional machines will have too, so
that you can operate your your steam wand for for

(16:55):
steaming milk, UM independently and not have to kind of
go back and forth temp true wise UM with your
with your boiler. You can also have different kinds of
heads that connect the pressure chamber to the porta filter
UM uh you know taking you know, what's what's what's
releasing that hot water down into the grounds. UM. Some

(17:20):
are connected straight to the boiler others are separate. Uh
no skin in which one is better. The separate ones
are cheaper and easier to replace. The connected ones are
considered better by many humans. M hmm. I have a
friend who she got an espresso machine for Christmas several

(17:43):
years ago, and it looked intimidating to me, but she
was very proud of it. I'll have to ask her.
It was big for like this small drink. Yeah, pumps
are pumps are a serious thing. Um, it's I again,
Like I mean, like this is not entirely, entirely an

(18:05):
episode about espresso machine technology. M hmm. Yeah, well, I'll
have to reach out to her. This also reminds me
of the time that while we were at south By
Southwest when we got the idea for this show, uh
me and passed house of stuff money were told you,

(18:25):
Caroline accidentally broke our bosses Jerry's pot, and we ran
away like children. We ran away like damn, yes, yes, yes,
that is what that is what occurred. Um, it's the
handle just kind of popped off, And yes, I was there.

(18:45):
We all panicked. We all panicked, We panicked, and then
Jerry could have cared less. She was like, it's fine.
I mean, you know you do. You don't want to
disappoint Jerry. If if you'll listen to stuff you should
know then like you've probably heard many a tale of Jerry. Um.
She she is one of the sweetest like mama bear
kind of humans on the planet. And like, you just

(19:07):
don't want to disappoint Jerry. But we yeah, we definitely
right away. Like I'm not even literally ran away anyway.
What about the nutrition. Espresso has a small, uh small

(19:28):
smattering of micronutrients, um, not a lot of macronutrients to
speak of. Um, you know, a tiny, tiny, tiny bit
of fat from the oils and the coffee beans. Um.
And caffeine levels can vary. I drink, drink responsibly. Yeah yeah.
Caffeine hits me hard. Oh yeah, me too, me too.

(19:54):
M hmmm. One day we'll do a caffeine episode. That'll
be interesting. Oh no, uh, we do have a one
number for you, we do. Um. So. The global market
for espresso as a drink, just like shots of espresso,
has been estimated to be worth a thirteen point eight

(20:17):
billion dollars a year as of two and is projected
to grow. Um. This is a small segment of the
much larger um overall coffee industry. UM, and also a
small segment of the much larger overall like espresso drink industry,
which I don't have numbers for, sorry about that anyway. UM.

(20:39):
More espresso is made in cafes than at home. UM.
Even through the pandemic, Europe still holds the largest market
segment of South America is expected to grow the most
over the next few years. Huh and yeah, I would
love to hear from listeners about this one, because from
what I've read, the ordering prac this around espresso can

(21:02):
vary both in like the terms that you use, but
just sort of the process that happens after that. I
would just be curious to hear about that from listeners
from other country. Oh. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like I
feel like here in the States, um, we have been
so trained by Starbucks. Like I feel like that is

(21:26):
where most of us like learned, yeah, how to espresso,
and and they have such a specific like corporate shakedown
going on that like it's it's really Uh. I hate
the term authentic because like authentic and me and a
whole lot of things that I'm pretty sure that was

(21:46):
developed as part of the World Fairs which were really racist.
Um so so yeah, yeah, but but I do think that,
um right, that is not how it goes in other places, right, yeah,
And we are going to talk about that a little

(22:07):
bit worldfairs and Starbucks in history section. We will, um
but first we're going to get into a quick break
for a word from our sponsors and we're back. Thank you, sponsors,

(22:27):
thank you. Okay, So yes, see our coffee episode, uh
for a lot more information and context also before we
get into this one. This is going to be a
fun with Italian and I believe some other there's the German, German. Yeah,

(22:49):
so I'm gonna try my best, but it's gonna be fun.
Yeah yeah, okay, So very very brief. Historians and experts
believed that coffee was most likely discovered in nine century Ethiopia,
um or at least that's where the records were, like

(23:11):
definitely by then it was there. Many sources posit that
North African traders introduced coffee to Italy sometime during the
fifteenth or sixteenth century, and coffee became very popular and
often expensive beverage that had a lot of intrigue around
it in that area. This kind of like coffee culture
really starting to grow, alright, But espresso specifically, most put

(23:37):
the invention of the espresso in Italy over a hundred
years ago, something that was the direct result of the
invention of the espresso machine, and in particular, this machine
is often credited to a fellow named Angelo Moriondo. At
the time in Europe, coffee culture was, yes, it was booming.
Cafes were huge, but still it took some time to

(24:00):
get the customers their order. Because of the technology that
was available, brewers and inventors across the continent started experimenting
with ways to speed up the process, particularly with steam,
because steam machines were the top technology at the time.
This resulted in a slew of patents and inventions. But
Italian Angelo Moriando and his four patent of a quote

(24:24):
new steam machinery for the economic and instantaneous confection of
coffee beverage is the one that is sort of regarded
as the first. Alright, so let's break down this machine.
It consisted of a big boiler that was heated to
one point five bars of pressure, no bush water through

(24:46):
the coffee grounds, and a second boiler to finish the
product out. He created this product for the turin our turn.
I think it's turine, uh general exposition a bulk brewer,
so it it made a lot and the first known
to use both water and steam. However, there is not

(25:07):
much evidence at all in terms of things like photographs,
are even branding. The patent is really kind of the
only thing we have about this mm hmmmm. We do
know more about some of the other innovators of espresso
and espresso machines from around this time. Two of the
big ones were Luigi Bitzara and de cr Do Pavoni,

(25:30):
but Sarah had a lot of knowledge and experience in
terms of drinks and liqueurs, perhaps specifically, and by the
twentieth century. He is credited with inventing the single shot
espresso into a cup, mostly due to his determination to
speed up the bring process. He did this by improving
upon Moriondo's original design, adding a porta filter, more than

(25:53):
one brew head, among other things that yeah, still exists
in espresso machines today. With these innovations, it took seconds
to brew a cup of espresso. However, it wasn't perfect
because the machine was heated over an open flame. The
shots that produced were inconsistent and overall it was kind

(26:15):
of hard to control. He tried a few more prototypes
but ran out of money, and also he wasn't great
in the marketing department, which seems like a theme so far.
But all was not lost because he had a friend
in high places like Povoni. Yeah, okay, so in Povoni

(26:35):
purchased the patents from Bet Sarah and got to work
on improving the design. One of his biggest contributions was
the invention of the pressure release valve, which meant that
hot coffee wouldn't splash all over and potentially burn folks
great h and also sped everything up even more. On
top of that, Povoni gets the credit for inventing the

(26:56):
steam wand, which made it possible to get to extra
steam that was available inside the boiler. But Sarah and
Poboni came together for the Milan Fair to introduce the
Cafe Espresso from their machine that was called E D
l U. At the time, this sort of steam powered
machine was really in vogue. The picture gets a bit

(27:19):
fuzzy from here. It's possible that Bet Sarah improved even
further on the machine, but he either faded away from
the business or was bought out. Povoni meanwhile, began marketing
these machines with the name Espresso. One of the slogans
was made on the spur of the moment, or perhaps

(27:39):
expressly as I read somewhere um, though it also said
perhaps the name was because the water was expressed through
the coffee. Anyway, Pavoni started to produce these machines commercially
after the Idels debut at the Milan Fair. The whole
landscape of espresso chain with people copying this machine or

(28:02):
improving upon it. Uh but yes. The first espresso machines
of the twentieth century primarily relied on steam power alone
to push its way through the coffee grounds, producing up
to one thousand cups of espresso an hour. However, the
resulting products still left a lot to be desired. It
often tasted burnt, are overly bitter than what most people

(28:25):
would prefer. The pressure produced was low, another issue. While
Italian coffee consumption was steadily rising until the nineteen twenties,
coffee was briefly deemed a luxury import. In the early twenties,
with the new Fascist government in Italy and the installation

(28:45):
of new espresso machines in Italian bars was banned for
a short time, with a few exceptions. Through things like this,
coffee consumption dropped in Italy and Italians started using the
word barista to replace the English word barman as part
of a campaign to raise foreign words, which like, is
a whole thing I really want to dig into at
a later date, um, but for our purposes now, that

(29:10):
was kind of a hit in coffee espresso culture and
really um still, people kept refining and experimenting and testing.
Gas got replaced by electricity, the machines got smaller, lighter,
and more efficient. However, Pavonis machine reigned and espresso was
largely a regional lan drink at this time. Um. He

(29:32):
did have some competitors, including inventor Pierre Terra Cio Arduino,
who really dedicated himself to finding a way to bruce
espresso without relying on only steam. Um. He tried a
bunch of different technical things, many that didn't pan out.
You can tell that I was like, oh, that's over
my head. But yeah, he tried a bunch of different things.

(29:53):
But he was really excellent in the marketing department. Yes,
he he hired a graphic designer and created this whole
marketing machine around espresso and espresso machines, and through his efforts,
are Dweeno exported these machines throughout Europe. These innovations around

(30:15):
the espresso machine kept going until around when Achille Gaja
got the idea to improve the process of pressurizing the
water with a hand operated pump mm hmm. This removed
the reliance on steam pressure alone and allowed for over
two bar brewing up to eight to tin bars. Yeah.

(30:38):
The boiler's size shrunk, and this new design also standardized
the size of a shot, since the cylinders on these
lever groups were limited to holding one ounce of water,
which again I'm so interested in. Um. This is also
where the whole pulling a shot comes from, even though
the process today is largely automated. Uh. From this innovation,

(31:02):
Barista's discovered krema or that foam yeah that is often
floating a top espresso. Uh. There was a whole branding
thing that happened around this too, because at first customers
thought that this was like this krama was scum or
something that you really didn't want, But clever marketers are
able to essentially label it as a cafe crim uh

(31:24):
and basically make it sound like only the best quality
coffee could produce it, Like you were so lucky you
should be paying more for this. Oh goodness, I love
all of those mm hmm. The innovations were not over though,
and in fact, like even today again like with my

(31:44):
friend with her fancy machine she got it Christmas, still
ongoing but okay. In Ernesto Valente invented the Fima six
one sixty one that came with a motorized pump to
create nine bars of pressure, a heat exchanger to maintain
the ideal temperature. And it was smaller, streamlined, It was
stainless steel, It was more versatile. It was very popular.

(32:08):
Also perhaps a different episode. Uh, but I did want
to mention the espresso martini. Uh. Well was probably probably
when I do the research, so much more will come out.
But basic google search probably invented in the nineteen eighties.
Uh and yeah, according to a quick search. British bartender
Dick Bradzel was working at the Fred's Club in the

(32:31):
eighties when an unnamed model came to the bar and
asked for something to wake me up and fuck me up. Uh,
and he went together a drink of sugar vodka coffee,
liquor and espresso. But yes, of course, as with all
those cocktail hours, a lot of conflicting tales. I'm very

(32:51):
excited to dig into it in the future. Cool yeah, yes,
uh and then yeah. Especially coffee shops were a rarity
in the sixties in the United States. Um, but that
was something that changed in the eighties, in part thanks
to the first Starbucks opening in ven I think several
opened that year. Um. Nowadays there are over five thousand,

(33:14):
five d Starbucks locations around the world, and it's yeah,
practically a joke that there are two on every corner
and all of them offer espresso. And yeah for for
all of the like like like new shiny drinks that
the brand offers um seasonally, all the time, all the time.
The just espresso option went unchanged for basically forty three years. UM.

(33:39):
The first time that they began marketing a second different
roast of espresso, blonde roast, was in oh. I had
a past coworker of ours before what back when I
thought espresso was still so fancy, She ordered an espresso
one time we read a work event at Starbucks or something.

(34:02):
I remember thinking like, WHOA, I've come so far as
have espresso innovations because yes, as as we said, I'm
sure you've seen the ads like these, These people love

(34:23):
this product, and so the innovations keep coming. There are
computerized machines that just looks so sleek in advance. And
it's really funny to me because there was a line
I read somewhere in the history portion, one of the
articles from the history portion where they were talking about
how sleek these old vintage machines look, and I feel

(34:43):
like that's coming back as a retro thing. Yeah, absolutely,
uh yeah. It also reminds me like a lot of
I don't know, like there's there's a certain like it's
it's more than the steampunk aesthetic, but this all certainly
does tie into the steam punk esthetics. So I'm like,
all right, okay, okay, espresso back to cocktails for a second. Um.

(35:09):
Right now, With the cocktail renaissance that we are in,
mixed drink applications of espresso are expected to like pretty
seriously fuel market growth over the next few years, especially
with UM with new prepackaged espresso products coming out for
like bars and home consumers to use without needing to
brew it fresh. UM. Although I am positive that many

(35:33):
humans would argue that if it's not fresh brewed, it's
not really espresso. This reminds me of I don't know
if you've ever seen Backward Conan had his show Jordan's
Slantskys producer really loved espresso. There was an episode where
he just went off about espresso. I can't tell if
you're being serious or if this is a bit, but

(35:54):
I'm very nervous right now. I'm very very nervous. There's
an intense city, like I said, like, I love the intensity.
I want to hear all about it. But police don't
come for me. But please don't come for us. No,
I did go on a rabbit hole after this episode

(36:14):
of looking at espresso cocktails, which is funny because I
really have no way of making espresso currently. But yeah,
I was just curious. Yeah. Uh. And then a final note, Apparently,
in two thousand twenty two, an Italian coffee bar was
fined one thousand euros after a customer was charged two

(36:36):
euros for a decaf espresso and the price wasn't listed
on the menu. He called the police. It was the
whole thing. And again, this is something I want to
look into, because apparently this is a law, like you
can't pull this yet you have to list your prices
on the menu situation. I think you have to list
your prices and listeners right in. I believe there's a

(36:59):
set price for espresso. I think there's like I could
be wrong, but that's what this article made it sound like,
was like you don't go above this, or I can't
remember the lar if it's just kind of like a
general understanding. Yeah, definitely let us know and or we
can look into it right at a later time and date. Interesting. Yes, oh,

(37:19):
I would love to look into that more. Well, that
is for future as though. Um. In the meantime, listeners,
we have tasked you with a lot of prompts right
into us a lot. Uh so please please do we
have some listener mail from humans who have already written

(37:39):
to us. But first we are going to take one
more quick break for a word from our sponsor. And
we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, and we're
back with a listener. Wow, that went places. That's how

(38:03):
I feel when I have YE all over the place.
That's the energy, like your blood is just doing a
parade right through your body. M but in the best way.

(38:25):
Absolutely m h Gabrielle wrote, Hello, just got through listening
to your horse radish episode. My mother and I are
of German descent. She always grew a horse shradish plant
wherever she was living and would take great pride in
grading her own. Whenever she made a poor croast for dinner.
If we had company, it was the guest honor to

(38:47):
grate the horse shraddish route. It always made for interesting
comments as they would start sniffling and crying from it.
There's nothing like fresh grated horse radish. Also, if you
buy the prepared horse radish, I would suggest the one
that comes in the refrigeration section, which has no extra
preservatives in it, and it's true horse raddish route. If

(39:09):
you mix it with Sarah cream, you'll get the creamy version.
Every episode brings me so many memories. Thank you for
taking me down memory lane. Ah well, thank you for sharing.
And I love this. I love that you have a
tradition where the guests graded and then they cry excellent,
so good. That is amazing. I love I love this,

(39:29):
I love oh, I I love I love like like
how households on our guests, especially at a day. It's
always such an interesting, like personal tradition. Um also super
second buying the refrigerated prepared horse radish. That is the
only way to go. Okay, okay, because this is to me,

(39:50):
that combination of like pork roast and horse radish sounds amazing.
Oh yeah, all right, I'll keep an eye out. Keep
an eye out. Uh, Kina or perhaps kenna. I'm so sorry, uh,
they wrote. On the island of Malta, there exists a
soda pop called kinney. It's flavored with bitter orange. When

(40:11):
I studied abroad there in it was a rite of
passage for students to try a sip. We then made
a face and exclaimed how incredulous it was that it
was such a popular drink. I can't bear the thought
of wasting food. So when I found myself with nearly
an entire bottle of kinney, I committed to drinking at all.
Over the course of a week or so, I sipped
from my bottle of flat room temperature bitter orange kinney,

(40:35):
and I began to like it. By the end of
my time there, I was purchasing bottles of kinney just
because I wanted some. Since then, I've thought about buying
kinney online, but it's a little pricey diship overseas. Anyway,
I thought you all should know that this exists. The
Moxie episode made me want to find a bunch of
lesser known or regional sodas and have a tasting night.

(40:56):
Yes ah, yeah, I've ever heard of that one, but
I love bitter Orange. I want to try that immediately. Yeah. Yeah,
that just sounds so fun. That reminds me of We
have the World of Coke here in Atlanta and they
have like a Final Room which is just Coca cola

(41:17):
flavors from around the world. Um, and there's all kinds
of stuff in there, and so you're tasting night. Reminds
me of like a much calmer, more less stressful, i'll say,
version of the World of Coke, yeah, which is like
inevitably sticky and there's like yeah, and everybody wants to

(41:39):
try everything just as chaos. But I mean, I mean
I had fun, but definitely this sounds more low key
and highly Yeah. We encourage you to do it, and
if you do, please let us know how it goes.
Absolutely yes. Uh. And in the meantime, thanks to both
of those listeners of our writing in if you would

(42:01):
like to write to us that you can or emails
hello at saborpod dot com. We're also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
savor pod and we do hope to hear from you.
Savor is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts
to my heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan

(42:22):
and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we
hope that lots more good things are coming your way.