June 24, 2020 • 42 mins
Call 'em scallions, spring onions, salad onions, bunching onions, or welsh onions -- these leafy green onion tops add a mild kick to dishes the world over. Anney and Lauren dig into the tangled history and etymology of scallions.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about scallions and other things related. Well, yes, it's
it's a it's a category of of stuff that goes
under a variety of names. Uh. Here in the States,
(00:29):
green onions is the other thing that they're most frequently called.
But we'll get into all of that. Oh yeah, yeah,
it made for some fun times in research. And what
else made for some fun times in research? Is? Uh?
I mean perhaps obviously we're not talking about the book
or T and MG song. Um, which is what all
(00:50):
of my results were when I first started googling green onions. Um, so, yes,
this is a song. According to legend, was so named because, um,
the band wanted something as funky as possible for the name,
and the original name was funky onions makes sense, but
(01:13):
it sounded too close to a curse word in a
Southern accent, so they went with green onions instead of right. Yeah, yeah,
funk particularly was was the word that was in question. Yes,
not onions, not onions no, right, um, but yeah, yeah
(01:35):
that dominated my research results. Um. I so I've been
getting a lot of green onions lately and and leaks,
which got me confused because I've always labored under the
misconception that they were just big green onions. Okay, okay, again,
(01:57):
the nomenclature is complicated, but but they're similar. They are similar, yes, uh,
And I love green onions. I grew up in a
household where they were around all the time, and also
in my house we called them interchangeably scallions, green onions,
or spring onions. Probably throughout this episode, I'm gonna try
(02:18):
to stick to one, but I'll probably bounce around. Um.
And my dad particularly loved them. He would eat them straight,
sort of like bugs bunny with a carrot. I would
just see him snap some green onions. Sure, why not? Yeah,
in in in my household growing up, uh, my dad
(02:38):
called him scallions, and so that tends to be the
word that I tend to use for them. Um. But yeah, yeah,
I am growing some uh and it's going swimmingly currently.
I have a bit of a fear that it's just
gonna randomly die, because that's what happens to me a lot.
(02:59):
But apparently growing some in a jar as a quarantine trend,
I'm not the only person doing this right, right, And
when you say growing them, you're not saying that you
started with seed and you're you're you're growing them from
from scratch. You're saying that you like, cut the green
tops off of some scallions and put the rudy bits
(03:20):
in a jar with some water, and then they're they've
got shoots coming up again. Yeah yeah and so fast.
So yeah, yeah, that is an easy and delightful thing
to do. Um. I uh. Long time listeners may remember
that I shouldn't really eat anything in the onion family. Um,
(03:41):
it gives me digestive problems. Um. So uh we're not
problem sure, let's call it problems anyway. Um uh uh
so um so I don't. I kind of try to
avoid them in general. Um. But but oh man, they're
they're delightful thing. Oh oh yeah, I I absolutely adore them. Um.
(04:05):
And speaking of we have done a whole episode on
onion before, which serves really well to to explain what
especially for like history and well, I guess pretty much everything,
um because it's I mean, they kind of the same,
they're very similar, which I guess brings us to our question.
(04:30):
Scallions slash green onions slash a million other names. What
are they? Well, uh, Scallions are types of onion that
do not develop the big, fleshy bulb underground um. Instead,
the green shoots that pop up above ground are what
we mostly use. I mean, like, you can eat the
(04:53):
underground white bit too, it'll just never develop to be
to be really much wider around than a shoots um.
You see, when when onions grow, they shoot up these
tall cylindrical tubes of of concentric leaves um that sort
of looked like a single stem, but they're just a
tightly packed bundle of leaves. And using the sunlight they
(05:14):
take in from those leaves plus the water that they
get from their true roots, onions will develop a storage
root underground where they build up water and sugars and
other nutrients s and um defensive chemicals so that the
plant can survive through the winter and then um shoot
up a flower in the spring, and each layer of
that underground root will try to sprout up a layer
(05:35):
of leaf um within the leaf tube. Okay, okay, So
in regular onions that grow those thick juicy bulbs, those
leaves also tend to be thick and kind of juicy
um in scallions, though the thin bulbs put off these
thin leaves, sometimes paper thin, and sometimes just a single
(05:56):
layer or two of leaf. The whole plant tends to
be more mild like, less sharp tasting and sulfury than
other onions, which lets these other notes come through. They're
more grassy and earthy and bright um. You often chop
fresh scallion leaves too, to use as a delicate garnish,
or like a last minute add in two dishes to
just give it a little bit of a pop um.
(06:17):
And there are a few species and varieties of onions
that get lumped into this category, all in the Allium genus,
varieties of Allium spa, which is the common onion, plus
species like Allium Chinese China see I hate Latin, I'm sorry, uh,
Allium fistulosum, and Alium proliferum, and all of these have
(06:41):
um slightly different leaves and roots and flavors, but all
are especially prized for for those thinner and milder leaf shoots.
But this brings us to our secondary question. Yes, green
onions versus gallions? Are they the same? Yep? Yep, they are, yep, yep.
(07:02):
Green onion is another term for scallion. Okay, but what
about spring onions? Well? Uh. In the United States, spring
onion is a term for a slightly different thing that's
used in a similar way. Um. It's it's the leaves
of onions that you harvest in the spring, when those
leaves pop up from the from the grown over wintered
(07:23):
storage route. So they're they're stronger in flavor than scallions. Usually.
Oh wait are you saying in some countries they go
by opposite knaves yep, yep. By throughout most of the
rest of the English speaking world, you might use spring
onion to refer to scallions and green onion to refer
(07:47):
to the shoots of onions that come up in the springtime. Oh. No, language,
it's so fun. Fun is one word for it, especially
as a podcaster or food researcher. Uh yeah, yeah. And
(08:08):
that's that that goes double when with a product like this. Um.
There are even more other names that the same thing
can be referred to as yes. Um. For instance, some
types of scallion are also sometimes called the Welsh onion,
not because they're from whales, but because of the Old
German world Welsh, which meant foreign. Um. And that's because
(08:33):
one of those species I mentioned um, a fisty losom,
is native to East and Southeast Asia, and that's usually
what you're talking about if someone in an English speaking
country refers to something as a Welsh onion that it
was imported from yeah, China, etcetera. Um. Sometimes they're also
called salad onions, or you might have heard the term
(08:55):
bunching onion used UM and bunching onion salad onion is
because you might slice them up and put them in
a salad easy. Bunch of onions is because a lot
of types of these onions grow their small bulbs and
their shoots in bunches or bundles of these connected true
true roots systems UM like like regular onions will grow
(09:15):
multiple bulbs from the same root, but not not in
the big clusters that you get from scallion type onions.
Oh okay, well, this is part of the reason i
had a massive gardening failure, because I'm used to seeing
them like this. UM, And apparently I've been for really
(09:39):
taken in what garlic looks like when it comes fresh.
Oh I thought the garlic was we're bunching scallions, bunching onions,
And I tried to grow that in a jar of water,
and I anyone who's listening, for the love of God,
(10:00):
don't try to do that. Because the smell was so bad.
There were tears, there was dry heaving. Oh only later
did I realize my my fatal gardening mistake. I make
it again. I'm sorry. Okay, Yeah, you can, like if
(10:24):
if um a clove of garlic within a bulb has
has has sprouted a little green shoot, um, you can
I'm not sure if you can water plant it, but
you can definitely like stick it in soil and try
to grow a new garlic plant from that. Yeah. But yeah,
(10:45):
the method I tried, but I wouldn't recommend because because
the thing about garlic bulbs is that they come to
you dried, so so the little rudy bits that are
down at the bottom of of the of the bunch
um are not living anymore. They're not gonna they're they're
not going to grow. They're just gonna essentially like start
(11:07):
like ferment, yes, rot rot in some way and not
be pleasant. Oh, I'm sorry, dude, It's okay. I I
you know, the more you know, I'm learning growing unlike
my garlic um. But we're not done. We are not
done with our name and etymology, Mayhem, we are not okay.
(11:30):
So that the word scallion um itself comes from Ascalon
or askalon Um, which is this ancient seaport located in
modern day Israel, so ancient Greeks and Romans. We're basically
calling this type of plant onions from this seaport ascalon
Um and uh and in the name developed over time
(11:51):
from that. Oh. Also the Irish family name Scallion, which
is amazing. By the way, Um goes way back. It's
an English translation of a Gaelic name meaning student. Some
records shorten the name to Scully. Oh, Scully or Scally.
I love Scally. That's excellent too, that is great. I wonder,
(12:15):
and I wonder if that's where um. Where the surname
Scully is in like agent Scully uh, like from X
five comes from um. I could not although figure out
how far back this name goes um, but it makes
me wonder whether the name and the food popped up
in the area around the same time that the food
term entered English around the thirteen or fourteen hundreds. So
(12:39):
I would I would have to do. I would have
to get into a type of research that I'm not
used to doing in order to get into that. Um.
But I did go on another tangent for the word
rap scallion um to see whether it was from the
same route. And it's not. Um. That descends from the
word rascal, which seems to come from the word rash
(13:00):
as in like quick, which may root from from Latin
or vulgar Latin verbs for scrape rasis or rassakar a um. Anyway,
we're a food show report hypothetically. Yeah, I had forgotten
about rapscallion That's that's fun too, oh is uh oh oh.
(13:23):
And another thing that I found out while I was
researching this is that there was a a feminine version
of rapscallion um, which originally had a very male connotation,
um rampallian um, which came from an old usage of
the word ramp to mean like a like a scandalous
(13:43):
lady or ill behaved woman. Oh dear, I know right,
Also a different route from the onion type ramps. Oh wow,
so much fusion when it comes to names in this one.
I'm pretty sure I would have to I didn't actually
(14:05):
look into it. We'll have to do a whole episode
on ramps at some point as well. But okay, coming back,
coming back to scallions. Yes, um. They are used in
all kinds of things as a topping, frequently paired with
potatoes and stir fries and savory pancakes, grilled a roasted
hole in champ, which is an Irish potato dish. Here
(14:27):
in the South, they are sometimes obviously cooked in cream.
Um and as a part of a Catalan feast called calcatata. Okay,
I am in love with this. I'm in love with this.
So this is grilled green onions dipped in romanescuo sauce,
supplemented by lots and lots of wine, most likely red
(14:49):
wine drunk from a poltroon, which is sort of a
teapot for wine where people drink as a stamp, pass
it from person to person. Okay, some some accounts I read,
you can tell how seasoned someone is by how far
away they hold it to drink the wine, which I love.
And if you're worried about how messy this sounds, bibbs.
(15:13):
Bibbs are a part of it. People wear bibbs, please
please please um. And if you're still a little confused,
cow sucks are a variety of scallion that are grown
covered by dirt to keep the white parts nice and tender,
just like white asparagus. This yeah, yeah, yeah, and we'll
(15:37):
go into the history very briefly of why um in
history section at this festival, freshly grilled cow sucks are
wrapped in newspaper and from some things I read a
single portion is twenty cow sucks. Well, oh, I wonder
I wonder exactly how thick they are, because they're they're
certainly dishes where you like grill or or roast these
(15:58):
things whole, right, But um, but huh that's delicious. I know.
We'll have to add it to our food field trip list,
which is growing atrociously long. It is. Yeah. Also, apparently
I read that you can pickle them and it's good.
Oh sure, yeah, well I mean I did. Yes, you
(16:19):
can pickle anything and it'll be pretty good. But um,
but now pickled onions are delicious, absolutely all right, new project,
new project, also as a garnish. I read something else again,
please right in. If you've done this, people make this
sort of scallion brush by you cut vertical thinly sliced
(16:42):
vertical cuts along the white and green ends are alternatively
just one side and then you leave a part in
the center that's uncut, and then you place that in
cold water and refrigerate it for at least an hour
and up to overnight, and then these cuts will curl
and form really ends like a brush. Yeah. Chilling cut
(17:05):
scallions in cold water is altogether a great way to
to firm them up because they'll soak in some of
that water. That's like plumping their cell walls and making
it more crisp. Um. And that process will also take
some of the sharp edge off and and and make
them a little bit curly as they plump. Yeah. Um.
And that brush technique is used specifically in Chinese and
(17:27):
related cuisines as a as a pretty way to serve
sauces um like a like a dish of sauce might
be served with a scallion brush so that the every
diner can can use that brush to apply the sauce
to their food. Um. This is seen often in like
peeking duck and other dishes like that. Oh oh, I
love it all right? What about the nutrition? Scallions are
(17:52):
super low in fats and calories overall. They're there, you know,
mostly water and dietary fiber. Um with a smattering of
vitamins and minerals especial vitamin K. So they are a
really great way to add flavor and vitamins to dishes
without adding a whole bunch of extra calories. Um. You're
you're usually not eating enough scallions to like really get
a serious nutritive value. Um, but if you do, they
(18:15):
do also have a decent little punch protein to them, um,
as many leafy greens will, so they will help fill
you up. But um, but you know, pair them with
fats and proteins to help keep you going. Yeah. I've
been using them a lot ever since we did our
eggplant episode. I'm on a real eggplant kick. Um yeah, yeah,
and I've been using them a top eggplant dishes a
(18:36):
lot lately. Oh yeah, so good, good times, great times.
When it comes to numbers, it is hard to separate
scallion slash green onion production slash whenever you particularly call them,
and onion at large production. But China is the largest
producer of onions, so it stands to reason they're the
(18:56):
largest producer of green onions too in the United as
the top producer of green onions is California. One report
claimed that fresh green onions are the fastest growing segment
in the onion market. I've seen that. I've seen that too. Um.
South Carolina is also a major grower here in the US,
though there a lot of the scallions that we do
(19:17):
eat in the States come from Mexico, which has had
a kind of rough time of summer weather the past
few years. So so their crops have been declining just
a little bit because climate change is terrible. Yeah. Yeah.
Over at Serious Eats, Ja Kengi Lopez alts Semi jokingly
suggested that scallion pancakes are the most consumed laminated pastry
(19:38):
in the world, passing the croissants, and it was a
very delightful article about how to make them, very in
depth as usual, So go check that out if you're interested.
I'll always always check out Serious Seats and specifically his articles.
But but yeah, so we we do, despite all of
this confusion, have some history for you. Um. But first
(20:02):
we've got a quick break for a word from our sponsor,
and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with a brief onion history refresher, which is
essentially the history of green spring salad, Welsh onions gallions
(20:26):
whatever whatever you call them. Um ben written records are
very scarce around them specifically, so just a little a
little refresher um and some bonus leak facts. Oh yeah, yeah.
Onions have been around for a long, long, long, a
long time. They were probably eaten wild as a staple
(20:47):
in prehistoric diet of humans. Most historians think that onions
originated in Asia or perhaps what is modern day Pakistan
or Iran, since wild onions grew all over or they
were probably domesticated around the world simultaneously in a bunch
of different places around the same time. They most likely
(21:08):
were one of the first domesticated crops, and they were
a hugely important crop as food, as art, as medicine,
spiritually and in mummification, all kinds of things. Green onions
and leaks go back at least five thousand years, most
likely originally hailing from the Mediterranean or Asia. But all
that stuff we said about onions you could kind of
(21:30):
put in there too. The word for leak comes from
the Old English word for lace. Leaks were cultivated in
ancient Egypt, and they were possibly used there as currency,
and some Egyptian tombs were adorned with images of leaks.
Stories tell that infer Nera loved leaks, believing that they
could improve his singing voice. Um Allegedly, he liked them
(21:52):
enough that people called him leak eater A good bad
I don't know. I guess it depends on the natural Yeah,
oh sure, Yeah, that's true, that leak eater. Yeah, I
mean the breath, the breath could be bad. Committedly yes. Meanwhile,
(22:15):
A Piceus wrote of rsp of fried green onions, salt, pork, vinegar,
and honey, which sounds delicious. Theo frostis mentioned the green onion,
and some attribute the name scallion to him. In ancient
Greek um he also wrote that the best leaks came
from Egypt and that they were delicious enough to be
eaten on their own. Scallions were mentioned in the Bible,
(22:39):
and for some are still a part of Passover as
whipping scallions. They were used. Addicitionally, all these things we're
talking about were used medicinally, leaks, scallions, green onions, spring
onions for all kinds of things, including particularly during the
Middle Ages, an afro Dzy. They had a really fun
name for him, specific believe, but I can't remember. I
(23:01):
mean it was just like a more romantic term for affrodusia.
Oh you're not fooling us um champ, which is that
Irish dish we mentioned earlier. Um, traditionally consisting of a
creamy mashed potatoes, gallons milk and or cream and butter,
became popular in Ireland during times of hardship, famine and unrest.
(23:24):
Potatoes were an Irish staple by the eighteen hundreds. Again,
the dates around this were very, very murky. But I've
never had this and it sounds delicious. I'm super into it.
The leak is one of the national emblems of Wales
to celebrate the six forty CE victory over the Saxons
by king called Wallader. Welshmen sometimes wear the stem of
(23:48):
a leak through their button holes on St. David's Day,
and the legend goes this is because soldiers wore leaks
around their hats to differentiate themselves in this battle. Okay, yeah,
in leagues were featured on the one pound coin and
Whales again please right in. Yes, absolutely, Oh my gosh.
(24:13):
When it comes to the history of the scallion pancake,
the data is also debated, but it's generally agreed that
they are very old. Um. There are a lot of
legends about the origins, as with most things we talked about.
Most of these legends put the sky and pancake coming
out of Shanghai, which has some credence since it is
a large city with a diverse population, including a decent
(24:35):
amount of folks from India at one time, and some
have pointed out the resemblance of the scallion pancake to
the paratha are non Indian flatbreads like that. Marco Polo
allegedly allegedly was a huge fan of scallion pancakes, so
much so that he tried to recreate them upon returning
home to Italy, and perhaps this was the precursor to
(24:59):
the whole we think pizza comes from Italy but it
actually comes from China story. Yeah, yeah, you can see
our pizza episode from more on that one. Um. More likely,
it's a fun but not true story, but hey, mysteries history.
According to John Young Phillips, host of the podcast Let's
(25:21):
find Out and Edmonton's historian Laureate, the scallion pancake was
popularized in Edmonton, Canada in the nineteen eighties, which is
not a thing I knew we were going to come
across in this research, but apparently it's really popular there
and sort of an anomaly when compared to the rest
of Canada. When investigating why Phillips kept encountering the name,
(25:45):
Sue to Toe had moved to Canada from Shanghai and
he opened his first restaurant in nineteen eight and later
a second one, Happy Garden and Mongolian Food Experience. They
were the few, if not only, restaurants to offer scallion
end cakes, and these pancakes were an immediate hit. Chinese
and Taiwanese workers and students in Edmonton found them comforting
(26:08):
and nostalgic, and word spread, especially once gallion pancakes appeared
at food festivals like Taste of Edmonton, solidifying the food's
status as a staple in Edmonton. And when you think
about it, um, they totally lend themselves to food festivals.
They're they're convenient, they're easily transportable, they're not super messy,
(26:30):
they smell delicious, they taste delicious. Um. They were so popular.
To I was able to sell his product at other
restaurants um and he actually posted a video about it
because some people were curious. Sy restaurants just didn't start
making them, and he was saying that the work involved
(26:51):
in the way of deep frying that he did it
was not worth it. Sure, which is some who's deep
fried stuff? I see, I understand. Um. I love scalion pancakes.
I used to eat those several times a week when
I was when I was in China. It is. It
(27:15):
is definitely a thing that I that I cheat on
my probably should not have onions rule with when I
run across them in in various restaurants. M hm. Yes,
and those cow sts we mentioned earlier, Okay, they are
also shrouded in legend, as is pretty much everything in
this episode, but most people date them to the beginning
(27:37):
of the twentieth century or maybe the end of the
nineteenth century. So the story goes that a local farmer,
wanting to preserve those white parts of scallions of kalsas,
did this purposefully using a technique called kal star, which
means both to cover the trunk of a plant with
soil and to put one shoes on, which I'm really
(27:58):
delighted by. M Other stories suggest impoverished farmers replanted their
onions and hopes of a second harvest, and this would
lead to an abundance that, of course, of course called
for a feast. Of course, obviously the EU granted the
calcap from vice protected geographical indications. So that's great. I know,
(28:22):
I know. Also, I'm not gonna talk about this medical
report I found, but I'll tell you I found a
medical report about the spring onion. Don't worry. You don't
have to worry about it. You're fine. But oh yeah, yeah,
it was a very disturbing food research. I will say
that you should only use food items as food items,
(28:45):
do not apply them to other parts of your body. Um.
And and here at this point I have to take
us on um a deep tangent um. But I guess
a lot of this episode has just been deep tangent
so that's okay. Um. So, with the first Pokemon game
(29:05):
released in Japan, players could obtain a Pokemon called Kama
negi um and this is a duck carrying like a
scallion or a leak um coma being a word for
duck and neggie being a word for um for those
a fisty losome scallions, which is sometimes translated into English
as leak um because some varieties in Japan have been
(29:27):
developed to be to be bigger um, resembling and being
used more like leaks than like scallions. And apparently this
this poke dude comes from a Japanese proverb um that
goes uh cama um, which means like literally a duck
comes along carrying a leak on its back, which apparently
(29:51):
intimates like unexpected good luck, like a like a duck
just walks up to you. Cool, that's delicious, um, but
it's k srying the thing that it's extra delicious with
on its back. Uh yeah, so unexpected good luck like
heck yeah um. The idiom is apparently um sometimes shorted
(30:13):
to come on eggie in everyday usage. So so if
anyone who's ever played or watched or read Pokemon was
ever wondering where that duck carrying a green onion came from,
here you go, there you go. Um, it's called far
fetched and in American versions of the property. So I
(30:36):
have to say, Lauren kind of hinted at, uh, there
would be a Pokemon tangent in this episode, and I've
been wondering and wondering what it could be, and it delivered. Also,
I'm apparently I'm extremely innocent because I was like, oh,
the good luck is now you have leaks. I know. No,
(31:00):
consider you're also going to eat the duck. I see now,
I see it. So it's a whole package. Yeah, there's um.
Apparently a popular duck soup in Japan is made with leaks.
So I now I know again so much I have
(31:23):
learned on this journey, and I'm a big fan of
Pokemon fats facts. I anger should put them in every
episode anywhere we can, you know, any any time I
get a chance to, I'll help you out. We'll have
we'll have our our Pokemon tangent. Yes, thank you, Lauren.
I knew I could count on you. Huh. I guess
(31:45):
that's about what we have to say on scallions and
green onions and some other things. Uh it is we
we do have some listener mail for you, but first
we've got one more quick break for a word from
our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you,
(32:11):
and we're back with me. Oh, I don't know a
lot about Pokemon. I wish I did. I wish I
knew what kind of sound I should have made. Oh. Oh,
the the only I the only Pokemon property I have
(32:34):
experience with his Pokemon go um and uh, and I
have the sound turned off on it because I don't
like my electronics to really make noise. Um. So, so
I couldn't tell you. I feel like super producer Andrew
could have could have helped us with that one. Yeah,
but I just know I know Pikachu in YouTube. I
(32:56):
have a very vivid memory of trying to bond with
my little brother. It's taking him to see the Pokemon movie.
He was like a very never cried Okay, he cried
his eyes out. Oh hi, little brother, if you're listen,
you're not when you two died, and I did not
know what to do done. I was trying to have
(33:19):
a fun time together. Oh well, huh. I wonder if
that's like, if that's like um, because my my generation,
a lot of a lot of my dude friends say
that the first movie that they cried at was Transformers
the movie. So I wonder if Pokemon is like that
(33:41):
for for younger generation. Yeah, uh hmm, I'll have to
I very much doubt he would ever even admit that
happened to me, but maybe I'll try to get to
the bottom of it. Jane wrote, I've been a listener
since the early days of the form of food stuff.
(34:01):
Thank you both for great food related entertainment, always thoughtful
research and reporting, and that immagable awkward charm to borrow
Lawrence Races. Thank you anytime. Yes, I am a recent
and exceedingly glad ex lawyer turned writer. Your podcast got
me through literally years of suffering in corporate law before
I finally chucked in the proverbial golden handcuffs and did
(34:23):
what I've always wanted to. These days, your stories form
delightful accompaniments to a variety of home cooking adventures in Quarantine.
I love how the show both deepens my relationship with
foods I already know and love and encourages me to
try new things. The Salisbury Stake episode, in particular, sent
me on a multi week, multi recipe quest to reproduce
(34:43):
the perfect version of my favorite college dining hall food
that I hadn't thought about for almost a decade. My
husband and I would have made Dr Salisbury proud that month.
As a fellow Francophile and lover of interesting etymologies, I
had to hop on it when Any asked for a
listener input about the mysterious origins of the name rock
(35:04):
for If you haven't already I thought you guys would
be interested to hear that the fascinating, sadly fading Occitan
language may be involved. The rock For area is very
close to the medieval castle town of Rockmar, for which
imminent twentie century French entomologist Ernest Negra suggests an Oxyton
word as the likeliest origin, rock from oxyton rocca or rock.
(35:28):
So rock Mar means black rock and, as any pointed out,
for indeed means strong. And this holds true whether in
modern French old Octon or a Latin from which both
the former to derive. So it's likely that nearby Rockfort
comes from an Octon place name for strong rock, given
(35:51):
the limestone dominated regional landscapes you describe. But this would
make a lot of sense. Alas, I do not actually
have access to Negra's book, so I can't actually check
if he has a distinct entry for rock For, but
the shared Ocit origin does seem a very likely theory
to me, especially as both Rockford and rock mar Our
smack in the middle of what was once France. I
(36:15):
hope you guys enjoyed this foray into arcane speculative anomology.
Yes always, yes, Oh my goodness plait please y'all right
in with with etymology notes um. Also, congratulations on on
your career switch. Being being a writer is a some
(36:35):
sometimes frustrating um but overall wonderful field. Yes, yes, congrats
on that. And yeah, thank you so much for going
on this adventure and sharing it with us. Yeah uh.
Rose wrote, So I was listening to your throwback on
sour dough. It reminded me of when I first listened
(36:56):
to it when it originally aired back in Little did
I know that in three years I would be babying
my own sour dough pet. This quarantine has brought out
the artisanal baker and so many as well as myself,
although artisanal not so much. I was first intrigued by
a video I saw on Facebook on how to start
your own sour dough starter, and thought I never thought
(37:18):
of that. All I had on hand was all purpose
bleached and enriched flour, so I gave it a go.
I mixed my one to one ratio of flour and
water and set it on the counter until it was
time to feed it twenty four hours later. Once it
came time to feed it, it had a light sour smell,
but not too strong. Fast forward it to six days
later and nothing was happening. I thought I had done
(37:39):
something wrong because there were small bubbles on the surface,
but it wasn't rising, and the hooch the clear liquid,
had separated and was sitting on top. I decided to
dump it and go on a quest to find organic
unbleached flower. After many articles and videos later told me
that organic unbleached was the best since most of the
yeasts naturally living on the wheat weren't killed off in
the bleaching process. Once I'm miraculously found my organic unbleached flower,
(38:04):
I tried it again. I measured out my equal parts
water and flour, mixed and poured into a mason jar,
and only covered it with the flat lid, not the ring,
so that it could breathe and expel its gases. I
kept going, discarding and feeding it the one to one
to one ratio of starter flour and water, and three
days later, lo and behold, it rose and had lots
of bubbles. But alas, my joy and feeling of accomplishment
(38:28):
was short lived because it went flat and lifeless on
day four and the layer of which was back. I
consulted with many experts sour dough bakers in a group
and I was advised to just leave it be, keep
feeding and the day will come when it's matured. I
was patient, and then on day fourteen, after a feeding,
it was rising. It was hallo lor so. Now I
(38:54):
had a sour dough starter. It was a couple of
weeks until I mustered up the courage to make something
with my star. My first sour dough baked good was
the good old sour dough English muffin. They were delicious.
After that, I just fed my starter and made pancakes
or crumpets with the discard, which by the way, are
also delicious. Temperature and region has much to do with
(39:14):
how fast or slow your start your starter will mature,
and how many times a day you'll need to feed it.
I live in so Coow and it's warmer, so my
starter gets hungry more often. No starter is the same,
like all living things, they have their own personalities and needs.
The suggested feeding ratio is one to one to one
of starter flour and water, but it can vary depending
(39:35):
on what your starter needs. I tend to feed mine
one to two to two starter flour and water. Baking
sour dough takes time. Unlike with instant east to get
at the store, it will not rise in an hour
or two. And some recipes for artisanal loaves call for
needing every hour for X amount of hours and then
they have to rise for eight to ten hours. Sour
(39:55):
dough takes its time to rise. I haven't gotten into
the artisanal low baking, but I do bake my two
sandwich loaves every week and they take about fifteen hours
from start to finish. Still want to try it out.
By the way, if you want a different flavor in
your baked goods, add sugar when you feed your starter.
It creates those sugar alcohols that give your bread a
(40:16):
multi flavor. I'd like to also add that sour dough
baking can get even more complicated with hydration percentage and
the folding and eating techniques. What kind of baskets you're
proofing your doughan to what kind of vessel you'll be
baking it in, such as a Dutch oven or clay pot.
It's all very exhausting, really, and I can go on
and on even more than I already did. In the end,
(40:38):
it is so much fun and rewarding to get to
eat the fruits of your labor. Try it out. You'll
love it, but also do your research. I love this
so much. I love hearing people legitimately talk about these
starters like pets, like the different personalities and different needs. Uh,
(41:00):
I mean to feed it more often. You have to
listen to it and see what. Yeah, no, it's all
It's all true. Though. That's well. I'm so glad that
you that you finally figured out your starters personality and yes, yes,
and everything you're making sounds delicious. Very jealous. I have
(41:26):
not uh started mine yet. I will, even though you
did give me a lot of things to consider because
I turns out I don't have any flower. Oh who
could put a crimp in it? Yeah? Sure, okay, so
I need to acquire some things first, but stare get there.
Um and yes to all the listeners sending in your
(41:49):
sour doughs and their names and what's going on what
you're making, keep that up please, It's lovely and thanks
to both of them for eating. If you would like
to write to us, that you can or email is
hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at
savor pod and we do hope to hear from you.
(42:12):
Savor is production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, you can visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagin and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about scallions and other things related. Well, yes, it's
it's a it's a category of of stuff that goes
under a variety of names. Uh. Here in the States,
(00:29):
green onions is the other thing that they're most frequently called.
But we'll get into all of that. Oh yeah, yeah,
it made for some fun times in research. And what
else made for some fun times in research? Is? Uh?
I mean perhaps obviously we're not talking about the book
or T and MG song. Um, which is what all
(00:50):
of my results were when I first started googling green onions. Um, so, yes,
this is a song. According to legend, was so named because, um,
the band wanted something as funky as possible for the name,
and the original name was funky onions makes sense, but
(01:13):
it sounded too close to a curse word in a
Southern accent, so they went with green onions instead of right. Yeah, yeah,
funk particularly was was the word that was in question. Yes,
not onions, not onions no, right, um, but yeah, yeah
(01:35):
that dominated my research results. Um. I so I've been
getting a lot of green onions lately and and leaks,
which got me confused because I've always labored under the
misconception that they were just big green onions. Okay, okay, again,
(01:57):
the nomenclature is complicated, but but they're similar. They are similar, yes, uh,
And I love green onions. I grew up in a
household where they were around all the time, and also
in my house we called them interchangeably scallions, green onions,
or spring onions. Probably throughout this episode, I'm gonna try
(02:18):
to stick to one, but I'll probably bounce around. Um.
And my dad particularly loved them. He would eat them straight,
sort of like bugs bunny with a carrot. I would
just see him snap some green onions. Sure, why not? Yeah,
in in in my household growing up, uh, my dad
(02:38):
called him scallions, and so that tends to be the
word that I tend to use for them. Um. But yeah, yeah,
I am growing some uh and it's going swimmingly currently.
I have a bit of a fear that it's just
gonna randomly die, because that's what happens to me a lot.
(02:59):
But apparently growing some in a jar as a quarantine trend,
I'm not the only person doing this right, right, And
when you say growing them, you're not saying that you
started with seed and you're you're you're growing them from
from scratch. You're saying that you like, cut the green
tops off of some scallions and put the rudy bits
(03:20):
in a jar with some water, and then they're they've
got shoots coming up again. Yeah yeah and so fast.
So yeah, yeah, that is an easy and delightful thing
to do. Um. I uh. Long time listeners may remember
that I shouldn't really eat anything in the onion family. Um,
(03:41):
it gives me digestive problems. Um. So uh we're not
problem sure, let's call it problems anyway. Um uh uh
so um so I don't. I kind of try to
avoid them in general. Um. But but oh man, they're
they're delightful thing. Oh oh yeah, I I absolutely adore them. Um.
(04:05):
And speaking of we have done a whole episode on
onion before, which serves really well to to explain what
especially for like history and well, I guess pretty much everything,
um because it's I mean, they kind of the same,
they're very similar, which I guess brings us to our question.
(04:30):
Scallions slash green onions slash a million other names. What
are they? Well, uh, Scallions are types of onion that
do not develop the big, fleshy bulb underground um. Instead,
the green shoots that pop up above ground are what
we mostly use. I mean, like, you can eat the
(04:53):
underground white bit too, it'll just never develop to be
to be really much wider around than a shoots um.
You see, when when onions grow, they shoot up these
tall cylindrical tubes of of concentric leaves um that sort
of looked like a single stem, but they're just a
tightly packed bundle of leaves. And using the sunlight they
(05:14):
take in from those leaves plus the water that they
get from their true roots, onions will develop a storage
root underground where they build up water and sugars and
other nutrients s and um defensive chemicals so that the
plant can survive through the winter and then um shoot
up a flower in the spring, and each layer of
that underground root will try to sprout up a layer
(05:35):
of leaf um within the leaf tube. Okay, okay, So
in regular onions that grow those thick juicy bulbs, those
leaves also tend to be thick and kind of juicy
um in scallions, though the thin bulbs put off these
thin leaves, sometimes paper thin, and sometimes just a single
(05:56):
layer or two of leaf. The whole plant tends to
be more mild like, less sharp tasting and sulfury than
other onions, which lets these other notes come through. They're
more grassy and earthy and bright um. You often chop
fresh scallion leaves too, to use as a delicate garnish,
or like a last minute add in two dishes to
just give it a little bit of a pop um.
(06:17):
And there are a few species and varieties of onions
that get lumped into this category, all in the Allium genus,
varieties of Allium spa, which is the common onion, plus
species like Allium Chinese China see I hate Latin, I'm sorry, uh,
Allium fistulosum, and Alium proliferum, and all of these have
(06:41):
um slightly different leaves and roots and flavors, but all
are especially prized for for those thinner and milder leaf shoots.
But this brings us to our secondary question. Yes, green
onions versus gallions? Are they the same? Yep? Yep, they are, yep, yep.
(07:02):
Green onion is another term for scallion. Okay, but what
about spring onions? Well? Uh. In the United States, spring
onion is a term for a slightly different thing that's
used in a similar way. Um. It's it's the leaves
of onions that you harvest in the spring, when those
leaves pop up from the from the grown over wintered
(07:23):
storage route. So they're they're stronger in flavor than scallions. Usually.
Oh wait are you saying in some countries they go
by opposite knaves yep, yep. By throughout most of the
rest of the English speaking world, you might use spring
onion to refer to scallions and green onion to refer
(07:47):
to the shoots of onions that come up in the springtime. Oh. No, language,
it's so fun. Fun is one word for it, especially
as a podcaster or food researcher. Uh yeah, yeah. And
(08:08):
that's that that goes double when with a product like this. Um.
There are even more other names that the same thing
can be referred to as yes. Um. For instance, some
types of scallion are also sometimes called the Welsh onion,
not because they're from whales, but because of the Old
German world Welsh, which meant foreign. Um. And that's because
(08:33):
one of those species I mentioned um, a fisty losom,
is native to East and Southeast Asia, and that's usually
what you're talking about if someone in an English speaking
country refers to something as a Welsh onion that it
was imported from yeah, China, etcetera. Um. Sometimes they're also
called salad onions, or you might have heard the term
(08:55):
bunching onion used UM and bunching onion salad onion is
because you might slice them up and put them in
a salad easy. Bunch of onions is because a lot
of types of these onions grow their small bulbs and
their shoots in bunches or bundles of these connected true
true roots systems UM like like regular onions will grow
(09:15):
multiple bulbs from the same root, but not not in
the big clusters that you get from scallion type onions.
Oh okay, well, this is part of the reason i
had a massive gardening failure, because I'm used to seeing
them like this. UM, And apparently I've been for really
(09:39):
taken in what garlic looks like when it comes fresh.
Oh I thought the garlic was we're bunching scallions, bunching onions,
And I tried to grow that in a jar of water,
and I anyone who's listening, for the love of God,
(10:00):
don't try to do that. Because the smell was so bad.
There were tears, there was dry heaving. Oh only later
did I realize my my fatal gardening mistake. I make
it again. I'm sorry. Okay, Yeah, you can, like if
(10:24):
if um a clove of garlic within a bulb has
has has sprouted a little green shoot, um, you can
I'm not sure if you can water plant it, but
you can definitely like stick it in soil and try
to grow a new garlic plant from that. Yeah. But yeah,
(10:45):
the method I tried, but I wouldn't recommend because because
the thing about garlic bulbs is that they come to
you dried, so so the little rudy bits that are
down at the bottom of of the of the bunch
um are not living anymore. They're not gonna they're they're
not going to grow. They're just gonna essentially like start
(11:07):
like ferment, yes, rot rot in some way and not
be pleasant. Oh, I'm sorry, dude, It's okay. I I
you know, the more you know, I'm learning growing unlike
my garlic um. But we're not done. We are not
done with our name and etymology, Mayhem, we are not okay.
(11:30):
So that the word scallion um itself comes from Ascalon
or askalon Um, which is this ancient seaport located in
modern day Israel, so ancient Greeks and Romans. We're basically
calling this type of plant onions from this seaport ascalon
Um and uh and in the name developed over time
(11:51):
from that. Oh. Also the Irish family name Scallion, which
is amazing. By the way, Um goes way back. It's
an English translation of a Gaelic name meaning student. Some
records shorten the name to Scully. Oh, Scully or Scally.
I love Scally. That's excellent too, that is great. I wonder,
(12:15):
and I wonder if that's where um. Where the surname
Scully is in like agent Scully uh, like from X
five comes from um. I could not although figure out
how far back this name goes um, but it makes
me wonder whether the name and the food popped up
in the area around the same time that the food
term entered English around the thirteen or fourteen hundreds. So
(12:39):
I would I would have to do. I would have
to get into a type of research that I'm not
used to doing in order to get into that. Um.
But I did go on another tangent for the word
rap scallion um to see whether it was from the
same route. And it's not. Um. That descends from the
word rascal, which seems to come from the word rash
(13:00):
as in like quick, which may root from from Latin
or vulgar Latin verbs for scrape rasis or rassakar a um. Anyway,
we're a food show report hypothetically. Yeah, I had forgotten
about rapscallion That's that's fun too, oh is uh oh oh.
(13:23):
And another thing that I found out while I was
researching this is that there was a a feminine version
of rapscallion um, which originally had a very male connotation,
um rampallian um, which came from an old usage of
the word ramp to mean like a like a scandalous
(13:43):
lady or ill behaved woman. Oh dear, I know right,
Also a different route from the onion type ramps. Oh wow,
so much fusion when it comes to names in this one.
I'm pretty sure I would have to I didn't actually
(14:05):
look into it. We'll have to do a whole episode
on ramps at some point as well. But okay, coming back,
coming back to scallions. Yes, um. They are used in
all kinds of things as a topping, frequently paired with
potatoes and stir fries and savory pancakes, grilled a roasted
hole in champ, which is an Irish potato dish. Here
(14:27):
in the South, they are sometimes obviously cooked in cream.
Um and as a part of a Catalan feast called calcatata. Okay,
I am in love with this. I'm in love with this.
So this is grilled green onions dipped in romanescuo sauce,
supplemented by lots and lots of wine, most likely red
(14:49):
wine drunk from a poltroon, which is sort of a
teapot for wine where people drink as a stamp, pass
it from person to person. Okay, some some accounts I read,
you can tell how seasoned someone is by how far
away they hold it to drink the wine, which I love.
And if you're worried about how messy this sounds, bibbs.
(15:13):
Bibbs are a part of it. People wear bibbs, please
please please um. And if you're still a little confused,
cow sucks are a variety of scallion that are grown
covered by dirt to keep the white parts nice and tender,
just like white asparagus. This yeah, yeah, yeah, and we'll
(15:37):
go into the history very briefly of why um in
history section at this festival, freshly grilled cow sucks are
wrapped in newspaper and from some things I read a
single portion is twenty cow sucks. Well, oh, I wonder
I wonder exactly how thick they are, because they're they're
certainly dishes where you like grill or or roast these
(15:58):
things whole, right, But um, but huh that's delicious. I know.
We'll have to add it to our food field trip list,
which is growing atrociously long. It is. Yeah. Also, apparently
I read that you can pickle them and it's good.
Oh sure, yeah, well I mean I did. Yes, you
(16:19):
can pickle anything and it'll be pretty good. But um,
but now pickled onions are delicious, absolutely all right, new project,
new project, also as a garnish. I read something else again,
please right in. If you've done this, people make this
sort of scallion brush by you cut vertical thinly sliced
(16:42):
vertical cuts along the white and green ends are alternatively
just one side and then you leave a part in
the center that's uncut, and then you place that in
cold water and refrigerate it for at least an hour
and up to overnight, and then these cuts will curl
and form really ends like a brush. Yeah. Chilling cut
(17:05):
scallions in cold water is altogether a great way to
to firm them up because they'll soak in some of
that water. That's like plumping their cell walls and making
it more crisp. Um. And that process will also take
some of the sharp edge off and and and make
them a little bit curly as they plump. Yeah. Um.
And that brush technique is used specifically in Chinese and
(17:27):
related cuisines as a as a pretty way to serve
sauces um like a like a dish of sauce might
be served with a scallion brush so that the every
diner can can use that brush to apply the sauce
to their food. Um. This is seen often in like
peeking duck and other dishes like that. Oh oh, I
love it all right? What about the nutrition? Scallions are
(17:52):
super low in fats and calories overall. They're there, you know,
mostly water and dietary fiber. Um with a smattering of
vitamins and minerals especial vitamin K. So they are a
really great way to add flavor and vitamins to dishes
without adding a whole bunch of extra calories. Um. You're
you're usually not eating enough scallions to like really get
a serious nutritive value. Um, but if you do, they
(18:15):
do also have a decent little punch protein to them, um,
as many leafy greens will, so they will help fill
you up. But um, but you know, pair them with
fats and proteins to help keep you going. Yeah. I've
been using them a lot ever since we did our
eggplant episode. I'm on a real eggplant kick. Um yeah, yeah,
and I've been using them a top eggplant dishes a
(18:36):
lot lately. Oh yeah, so good, good times, great times.
When it comes to numbers, it is hard to separate
scallion slash green onion production slash whenever you particularly call them,
and onion at large production. But China is the largest
producer of onions, so it stands to reason they're the
(18:56):
largest producer of green onions too in the United as
the top producer of green onions is California. One report
claimed that fresh green onions are the fastest growing segment
in the onion market. I've seen that. I've seen that too. Um.
South Carolina is also a major grower here in the US,
though there a lot of the scallions that we do
(19:17):
eat in the States come from Mexico, which has had
a kind of rough time of summer weather the past
few years. So so their crops have been declining just
a little bit because climate change is terrible. Yeah. Yeah.
Over at Serious Eats, Ja Kengi Lopez alts Semi jokingly
suggested that scallion pancakes are the most consumed laminated pastry
(19:38):
in the world, passing the croissants, and it was a
very delightful article about how to make them, very in
depth as usual, So go check that out if you're interested.
I'll always always check out Serious Seats and specifically his articles.
But but yeah, so we we do, despite all of
this confusion, have some history for you. Um. But first
(20:02):
we've got a quick break for a word from our sponsor,
and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And
we're back with a brief onion history refresher, which is
essentially the history of green spring salad, Welsh onions gallions
(20:26):
whatever whatever you call them. Um ben written records are
very scarce around them specifically, so just a little a
little refresher um and some bonus leak facts. Oh yeah, yeah.
Onions have been around for a long, long, long, a
long time. They were probably eaten wild as a staple
(20:47):
in prehistoric diet of humans. Most historians think that onions
originated in Asia or perhaps what is modern day Pakistan
or Iran, since wild onions grew all over or they
were probably domesticated around the world simultaneously in a bunch
of different places around the same time. They most likely
(21:08):
were one of the first domesticated crops, and they were
a hugely important crop as food, as art, as medicine,
spiritually and in mummification, all kinds of things. Green onions
and leaks go back at least five thousand years, most
likely originally hailing from the Mediterranean or Asia. But all
that stuff we said about onions you could kind of
(21:30):
put in there too. The word for leak comes from
the Old English word for lace. Leaks were cultivated in
ancient Egypt, and they were possibly used there as currency,
and some Egyptian tombs were adorned with images of leaks.
Stories tell that infer Nera loved leaks, believing that they
could improve his singing voice. Um Allegedly, he liked them
(21:52):
enough that people called him leak eater A good bad
I don't know. I guess it depends on the natural Yeah,
oh sure, Yeah, that's true, that leak eater. Yeah, I
mean the breath, the breath could be bad. Committedly yes. Meanwhile,
(22:15):
A Piceus wrote of rsp of fried green onions, salt, pork, vinegar,
and honey, which sounds delicious. Theo frostis mentioned the green onion,
and some attribute the name scallion to him. In ancient
Greek um he also wrote that the best leaks came
from Egypt and that they were delicious enough to be
eaten on their own. Scallions were mentioned in the Bible,
(22:39):
and for some are still a part of Passover as
whipping scallions. They were used. Addicitionally, all these things we're
talking about were used medicinally, leaks, scallions, green onions, spring
onions for all kinds of things, including particularly during the
Middle Ages, an afro Dzy. They had a really fun
name for him, specific believe, but I can't remember. I
(23:01):
mean it was just like a more romantic term for affrodusia.
Oh you're not fooling us um champ, which is that
Irish dish we mentioned earlier. Um, traditionally consisting of a
creamy mashed potatoes, gallons milk and or cream and butter,
became popular in Ireland during times of hardship, famine and unrest.
(23:24):
Potatoes were an Irish staple by the eighteen hundreds. Again,
the dates around this were very, very murky. But I've
never had this and it sounds delicious. I'm super into it.
The leak is one of the national emblems of Wales
to celebrate the six forty CE victory over the Saxons
by king called Wallader. Welshmen sometimes wear the stem of
(23:48):
a leak through their button holes on St. David's Day,
and the legend goes this is because soldiers wore leaks
around their hats to differentiate themselves in this battle. Okay, yeah,
in leagues were featured on the one pound coin and
Whales again please right in. Yes, absolutely, Oh my gosh.
(24:13):
When it comes to the history of the scallion pancake,
the data is also debated, but it's generally agreed that
they are very old. Um. There are a lot of
legends about the origins, as with most things we talked about.
Most of these legends put the sky and pancake coming
out of Shanghai, which has some credence since it is
a large city with a diverse population, including a decent
(24:35):
amount of folks from India at one time, and some
have pointed out the resemblance of the scallion pancake to
the paratha are non Indian flatbreads like that. Marco Polo
allegedly allegedly was a huge fan of scallion pancakes, so
much so that he tried to recreate them upon returning
home to Italy, and perhaps this was the precursor to
(24:59):
the whole we think pizza comes from Italy but it
actually comes from China story. Yeah, yeah, you can see
our pizza episode from more on that one. Um. More likely,
it's a fun but not true story, but hey, mysteries history.
According to John Young Phillips, host of the podcast Let's
(25:21):
find Out and Edmonton's historian Laureate, the scallion pancake was
popularized in Edmonton, Canada in the nineteen eighties, which is
not a thing I knew we were going to come
across in this research, but apparently it's really popular there
and sort of an anomaly when compared to the rest
of Canada. When investigating why Phillips kept encountering the name,
(25:45):
Sue to Toe had moved to Canada from Shanghai and
he opened his first restaurant in nineteen eight and later
a second one, Happy Garden and Mongolian Food Experience. They
were the few, if not only, restaurants to offer scallion
end cakes, and these pancakes were an immediate hit. Chinese
and Taiwanese workers and students in Edmonton found them comforting
(26:08):
and nostalgic, and word spread, especially once gallion pancakes appeared
at food festivals like Taste of Edmonton, solidifying the food's
status as a staple in Edmonton. And when you think
about it, um, they totally lend themselves to food festivals.
They're they're convenient, they're easily transportable, they're not super messy,
(26:30):
they smell delicious, they taste delicious. Um. They were so popular.
To I was able to sell his product at other
restaurants um and he actually posted a video about it
because some people were curious. Sy restaurants just didn't start
making them, and he was saying that the work involved
(26:51):
in the way of deep frying that he did it
was not worth it. Sure, which is some who's deep
fried stuff? I see, I understand. Um. I love scalion pancakes.
I used to eat those several times a week when
I was when I was in China. It is. It
(27:15):
is definitely a thing that I that I cheat on
my probably should not have onions rule with when I
run across them in in various restaurants. M hm. Yes,
and those cow sts we mentioned earlier, Okay, they are
also shrouded in legend, as is pretty much everything in
this episode, but most people date them to the beginning
(27:37):
of the twentieth century or maybe the end of the
nineteenth century. So the story goes that a local farmer,
wanting to preserve those white parts of scallions of kalsas,
did this purposefully using a technique called kal star, which
means both to cover the trunk of a plant with
soil and to put one shoes on, which I'm really
(27:58):
delighted by. M Other stories suggest impoverished farmers replanted their
onions and hopes of a second harvest, and this would
lead to an abundance that, of course, of course called
for a feast. Of course, obviously the EU granted the
calcap from vice protected geographical indications. So that's great. I know,
(28:22):
I know. Also, I'm not gonna talk about this medical
report I found, but I'll tell you I found a
medical report about the spring onion. Don't worry. You don't
have to worry about it. You're fine. But oh yeah, yeah,
it was a very disturbing food research. I will say
that you should only use food items as food items,
(28:45):
do not apply them to other parts of your body. Um.
And and here at this point I have to take
us on um a deep tangent um. But I guess
a lot of this episode has just been deep tangent
so that's okay. Um. So, with the first Pokemon game
(29:05):
released in Japan, players could obtain a Pokemon called Kama
negi um and this is a duck carrying like a
scallion or a leak um coma being a word for
duck and neggie being a word for um for those
a fisty losome scallions, which is sometimes translated into English
as leak um because some varieties in Japan have been
(29:27):
developed to be to be bigger um, resembling and being
used more like leaks than like scallions. And apparently this
this poke dude comes from a Japanese proverb um that
goes uh cama um, which means like literally a duck
comes along carrying a leak on its back, which apparently
(29:51):
intimates like unexpected good luck, like a like a duck
just walks up to you. Cool, that's delicious, um, but
it's k srying the thing that it's extra delicious with
on its back. Uh yeah, so unexpected good luck like
heck yeah um. The idiom is apparently um sometimes shorted
(30:13):
to come on eggie in everyday usage. So so if
anyone who's ever played or watched or read Pokemon was
ever wondering where that duck carrying a green onion came from,
here you go, there you go. Um, it's called far
fetched and in American versions of the property. So I
(30:36):
have to say, Lauren kind of hinted at, uh, there
would be a Pokemon tangent in this episode, and I've
been wondering and wondering what it could be, and it delivered. Also,
I'm apparently I'm extremely innocent because I was like, oh,
the good luck is now you have leaks. I know. No,
(31:00):
consider you're also going to eat the duck. I see now,
I see it. So it's a whole package. Yeah, there's um.
Apparently a popular duck soup in Japan is made with leaks.
So I now I know again so much I have
(31:23):
learned on this journey, and I'm a big fan of
Pokemon fats facts. I anger should put them in every
episode anywhere we can, you know, any any time I
get a chance to, I'll help you out. We'll have
we'll have our our Pokemon tangent. Yes, thank you, Lauren.
I knew I could count on you. Huh. I guess
(31:45):
that's about what we have to say on scallions and
green onions and some other things. Uh it is we
we do have some listener mail for you, but first
we've got one more quick break for a word from
our sponsor. And we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you,
(32:11):
and we're back with me. Oh, I don't know a
lot about Pokemon. I wish I did. I wish I
knew what kind of sound I should have made. Oh. Oh,
the the only I the only Pokemon property I have
(32:34):
experience with his Pokemon go um and uh, and I
have the sound turned off on it because I don't
like my electronics to really make noise. Um. So, so
I couldn't tell you. I feel like super producer Andrew
could have could have helped us with that one. Yeah,
but I just know I know Pikachu in YouTube. I
(32:56):
have a very vivid memory of trying to bond with
my little brother. It's taking him to see the Pokemon movie.
He was like a very never cried Okay, he cried
his eyes out. Oh hi, little brother, if you're listen,
you're not when you two died, and I did not
know what to do done. I was trying to have
(33:19):
a fun time together. Oh well, huh. I wonder if
that's like, if that's like um, because my my generation,
a lot of a lot of my dude friends say
that the first movie that they cried at was Transformers
the movie. So I wonder if Pokemon is like that
(33:41):
for for younger generation. Yeah, uh hmm, I'll have to
I very much doubt he would ever even admit that
happened to me, but maybe I'll try to get to
the bottom of it. Jane wrote, I've been a listener
since the early days of the form of food stuff.
(34:01):
Thank you both for great food related entertainment, always thoughtful
research and reporting, and that immagable awkward charm to borrow
Lawrence Races. Thank you anytime. Yes, I am a recent
and exceedingly glad ex lawyer turned writer. Your podcast got
me through literally years of suffering in corporate law before
I finally chucked in the proverbial golden handcuffs and did
(34:23):
what I've always wanted to. These days, your stories form
delightful accompaniments to a variety of home cooking adventures in Quarantine.
I love how the show both deepens my relationship with
foods I already know and love and encourages me to
try new things. The Salisbury Stake episode, in particular, sent
me on a multi week, multi recipe quest to reproduce
(34:43):
the perfect version of my favorite college dining hall food
that I hadn't thought about for almost a decade. My
husband and I would have made Dr Salisbury proud that month.
As a fellow Francophile and lover of interesting etymologies, I
had to hop on it when Any asked for a
listener input about the mysterious origins of the name rock
(35:04):
for If you haven't already I thought you guys would
be interested to hear that the fascinating, sadly fading Occitan
language may be involved. The rock For area is very
close to the medieval castle town of Rockmar, for which
imminent twentie century French entomologist Ernest Negra suggests an Oxyton
word as the likeliest origin, rock from oxyton rocca or rock.
(35:28):
So rock Mar means black rock and, as any pointed out,
for indeed means strong. And this holds true whether in
modern French old Octon or a Latin from which both
the former to derive. So it's likely that nearby Rockfort
comes from an Octon place name for strong rock, given
(35:51):
the limestone dominated regional landscapes you describe. But this would
make a lot of sense. Alas, I do not actually
have access to Negra's book, so I can't actually check
if he has a distinct entry for rock For, but
the shared Ocit origin does seem a very likely theory
to me, especially as both Rockford and rock mar Our
smack in the middle of what was once France. I
(36:15):
hope you guys enjoyed this foray into arcane speculative anomology.
Yes always, yes, Oh my goodness plait please y'all right
in with with etymology notes um. Also, congratulations on on
your career switch. Being being a writer is a some
(36:35):
sometimes frustrating um but overall wonderful field. Yes, yes, congrats
on that. And yeah, thank you so much for going
on this adventure and sharing it with us. Yeah uh.
Rose wrote, So I was listening to your throwback on
sour dough. It reminded me of when I first listened
(36:56):
to it when it originally aired back in Little did
I know that in three years I would be babying
my own sour dough pet. This quarantine has brought out
the artisanal baker and so many as well as myself,
although artisanal not so much. I was first intrigued by
a video I saw on Facebook on how to start
your own sour dough starter, and thought I never thought
(37:18):
of that. All I had on hand was all purpose
bleached and enriched flour, so I gave it a go.
I mixed my one to one ratio of flour and
water and set it on the counter until it was
time to feed it twenty four hours later. Once it
came time to feed it, it had a light sour smell,
but not too strong. Fast forward it to six days
later and nothing was happening. I thought I had done
(37:39):
something wrong because there were small bubbles on the surface,
but it wasn't rising, and the hooch the clear liquid,
had separated and was sitting on top. I decided to
dump it and go on a quest to find organic
unbleached flower. After many articles and videos later told me
that organic unbleached was the best since most of the
yeasts naturally living on the wheat weren't killed off in
the bleaching process. Once I'm miraculously found my organic unbleached flower,
(38:04):
I tried it again. I measured out my equal parts
water and flour, mixed and poured into a mason jar,
and only covered it with the flat lid, not the ring,
so that it could breathe and expel its gases. I
kept going, discarding and feeding it the one to one
to one ratio of starter flour and water, and three
days later, lo and behold, it rose and had lots
of bubbles. But alas, my joy and feeling of accomplishment
(38:28):
was short lived because it went flat and lifeless on
day four and the layer of which was back. I
consulted with many experts sour dough bakers in a group
and I was advised to just leave it be, keep
feeding and the day will come when it's matured. I
was patient, and then on day fourteen, after a feeding,
it was rising. It was hallo lor so. Now I
(38:54):
had a sour dough starter. It was a couple of
weeks until I mustered up the courage to make something
with my star. My first sour dough baked good was
the good old sour dough English muffin. They were delicious.
After that, I just fed my starter and made pancakes
or crumpets with the discard, which by the way, are
also delicious. Temperature and region has much to do with
(39:14):
how fast or slow your start your starter will mature,
and how many times a day you'll need to feed it.
I live in so Coow and it's warmer, so my
starter gets hungry more often. No starter is the same,
like all living things, they have their own personalities and needs.
The suggested feeding ratio is one to one to one
of starter flour and water, but it can vary depending
(39:35):
on what your starter needs. I tend to feed mine
one to two to two starter flour and water. Baking
sour dough takes time. Unlike with instant east to get
at the store, it will not rise in an hour
or two. And some recipes for artisanal loaves call for
needing every hour for X amount of hours and then
they have to rise for eight to ten hours. Sour
(39:55):
dough takes its time to rise. I haven't gotten into
the artisanal low baking, but I do bake my two
sandwich loaves every week and they take about fifteen hours
from start to finish. Still want to try it out.
By the way, if you want a different flavor in
your baked goods, add sugar when you feed your starter.
It creates those sugar alcohols that give your bread a
(40:16):
multi flavor. I'd like to also add that sour dough
baking can get even more complicated with hydration percentage and
the folding and eating techniques. What kind of baskets you're
proofing your doughan to what kind of vessel you'll be
baking it in, such as a Dutch oven or clay pot.
It's all very exhausting, really, and I can go on
and on even more than I already did. In the end,
(40:38):
it is so much fun and rewarding to get to
eat the fruits of your labor. Try it out. You'll
love it, but also do your research. I love this
so much. I love hearing people legitimately talk about these
starters like pets, like the different personalities and different needs. Uh,
(41:00):
I mean to feed it more often. You have to
listen to it and see what. Yeah, no, it's all
It's all true. Though. That's well. I'm so glad that
you that you finally figured out your starters personality and yes, yes,
and everything you're making sounds delicious. Very jealous. I have
(41:26):
not uh started mine yet. I will, even though you
did give me a lot of things to consider because
I turns out I don't have any flower. Oh who
could put a crimp in it? Yeah? Sure, okay, so
I need to acquire some things first, but stare get there.
Um and yes to all the listeners sending in your
(41:49):
sour doughs and their names and what's going on what
you're making, keep that up please, It's lovely and thanks
to both of them for eating. If you would like
to write to us, that you can or email is
hello at savor pod dot com. We're also on social media.
You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook at
savor pod and we do hope to hear from you.
(42:12):
Savor is production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts
my heart Radio, you can visit the i heart Radio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagin and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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