August 15, 2020 • 27 mins
These small, preserved flavor bombs are made from flower buds. Anney and Lauren investigate the salty science and history of capers and caperberries.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about capers. Uh huh and shout out to Anthony
for the suggestion. He's been on our mind ever since
we read that listener mail. And Lauren, you have discovered
that you have two jars of capers. Yes, I yeah,
(00:28):
well too, not to like full jars, um, that would
be wild, um, But no, No, I've got to like
half empty jars. Because clearly, I mean, like, capers are delicious.
I love a caper, um, but I don't think to
purchase them unless I'm like making a recipe um calls
for them, and then I'm like, oh crap, why would
(00:49):
I have capers? I should go buy some capers. And
apparently I've done that at least twice. So um it
happens to the best of us. Yeah. Yeah, but but
but it meant that I got to do some you know,
hands on research this morning. Yes. Yes, ever the professional
Lauren vocal bomb. If there's anything in my fridge you
(01:10):
ever need me to eat, I'm on it. Noted noted
it was like Chinese mustard packs you have or something. Sure, Yeah,
now I love a mustard pack. Yeah, why not? There
you go? All right, all right, I believe it. I
was on site stuff. Don't don't thrend me a time,
(01:32):
don't test you. I got it, I got it, all right.
I vowed to you to refer to you in this
matter respect Um, I too love capers. There was a
pasta dish I loved growing up that had capers, and
the capers were key. I wish I could remember what
else was involved, but the capers were key. And I
(01:53):
went through a very big peccatta phase phase and then
once I'm oh, I know I've talked about it before
on the show, so traumatic for me. My little brother
came home on Thanksgiving and told me he was vegetarian.
News to me, like the day of Thanksgiving, like you've
already been up since like four am, cooking turkey and stuff,
(02:15):
and yeah, suddenly he's like, hey vegetarian now, Hi. Yeah.
I was scrambling to to find things that I could
make for them, and I ended up making this like
potato roasted potato mushroom and caper dish that was delicious
and I make to this day, oh wow, that does
sound delicious. I don't think I've ever heard a description
of what it was that sounds that sounds tasty. I
(02:37):
would eat that also, yeah, pata i. That is one
of the things that I have a hard time not
ordering on the menu if I see oh yeah, so good,
so good, so simple, so good. But all right, let's
get to our questions. Capers what are they? Well, capers
(03:00):
are tangy edible flower buds, specifically from the caper bush. One.
Don't worry. There's a little bit of complication in here somewhere.
The botanical name is Caparus spinosa. And this is a
this is a scrambly type thorny, spiny, maybe evergreen shrub
(03:23):
that that only ever grows as much as like three
ft or in meter tall, but spreads out a lot um.
It's like a like a rocky cliff crevice sort of shrub,
you know. Um, it's a pretty temperate plant of flowers
in the summer, and the blooms are beautiful white petals
with these long purple stamens bursting out from the center
(03:43):
like a like a firework. It's it's gorgeous. Um. I'm
mad that I don't have any ornamental capers, and all
of my rock cliffs that I have around my home,
I don't have. What if you've got um an ornamental
caper sold or pepper shaker, I dare not imagine the beauty.
(04:04):
Does it exist? I know that it does somewhere. If not,
then we just put it out there and the universe
is obliged. Yes, it must come into parishion, it must exist.
Um That this shrub is in the Caparassier family, which
means that they are cousins to the Brassicassier plants mustards
(04:27):
and turnips, broccoli, stuff like that, and they share a
bit of that peppery kick. Yeah. Those flower buds are
harvested when they're still immature, like we little green nubs
that haven't bloomed yet into that beautiful flower. Um That
the buds are about the size of a pea, and
they range in size from a little smaller to a
little larger than said p. But um, but the smallest
(04:49):
are generally the most expensive. Um and primarily from what
I can tell, only because they're more labor intensive to pick.
No particular quality one way or another. Yeah, I read
a lot articles about that, about how people are missing
out on the bigger ones because they just assume more offensive.
Yeah better, Yeah, yeah, yeah, very your your caper size.
(05:11):
The next time you go shopping for some barrier caper size,
let us know what you think. It gets some from
different regions around the Mediterranean. They largely grow in the
Mediterranean anyway. Um uh yeah. They are often pickled um,
which adds to their They're already like bitter, peppery, floral, lemony,
all of the fruitally savory tang thing that they've got
(05:34):
going on. Um. Adding to all of that this like
heavy punch of salt and sour from um, whatever combination
of brine and wine and or vinegar you use to
to do the pickling um. And the result is that
they are just these little flavor bombs um. And the
texture is soft but with like a little bit of
that vegetible crunch um, like like pickled cucumber or something
(05:57):
like that would have. Yeah. Yeah, they are like just
one it's powerful, so flavorful. Oh yeah yeah, it's a
little bit. A little bit goes a long way. Um.
You can you can chop them up and spread them
out a little bit. But I really like having just
that full mouthful of like oh what did I just do? Yeah?
And I like tiny crunch. I love that. Huh. Um.
(06:19):
If you pickle them by fermenting um, you will indeed
get some additional like tart and smooth flavors um from bacteria. Pooh,
it feels like a spent a minute since we've done that.
I think it has. We haven't talked about a lot
of ferments very lately. Well, I'm glad we got to
(06:41):
remedy you that today. Me too. Always fill in that
bingo card kids, um uh. If you um don't pickle them,
you can also preserve them um packed dry in salt,
which creates a final product with them, perhaps obviously less
like vinegar tang um. And that will allow some more
(07:01):
of those floral notes to come through. And these are
a little bit pricier and harder to find out of Europe,
and people who have opinions about these kind of things
say that say that they are a superior product. H
So okay, I wouldn't know. I'm not that fancy yet neither. Yes, Um,
(07:24):
A lot of recipes do you recommend um soaking either
type of caper in water for like twenty minutes half
an hour before using them in recipes so that you
dial down some of that vinegar and or salt content
and let the other flavors shine through. I've never done that,
but maybe I maybe maybe I'm a weirdo. I don't know,
maybe we're both weirdos. That's I have a suspicion. I yes,
(07:48):
perhaps I don't know what you're talking about, Lauren, totally
normal here twenty thou thank you Annie, this is I'm sure. Yep,
that's the most confident answer you could expect. Um. And
if you've ever seen caper berries, uh, those are the
(08:09):
fruits that would develop if you allowed the caper bud
to bloom and grow, and you also pick caper berries
green and unripe. Um. They wind up being larger than
capers perhaps obviously again um about the size of an
olive or so um, and have a less peppery flavor.
They're also often pickled. Yes, and I didn't want to
(08:31):
put in here. A lot of times the smaller ones
are called nonperier, which that sounds like the water. It does.
So what I'm trying to say, um No, it means
in French forget my pronunciation, I butgered it. You know
what I'm talking about. It means unparalleled. Oh, that's what
that means I assumed that like that, like etymologically, it
(08:54):
was like tiny in some way that I wasn't understanding
because French. Um, but yeah, that's yeah, but unparalleled is
much sweeter. I like that. Yes, yes, I would love
to be a product that was labeled on paralleled. Gosh. Yeah,
but it could be a back ended compliment, couldn't it.
That's true, but as you know, those are one of
(09:16):
my favorite reviews. Um. So either way, yeah, we're not weirdos,
We're just unparalleled, exactly exactly. Um. So, capers are in
all kinds of dishes as a condiment or ingredient. Um
with smoked salmon on bagels and this swas salad, um,
chicken and veal, pocada, as we said, pasta pudanesca, sometimes
(09:38):
in a marteti, in tartar sauce, and yes, very popular
in Mediterranean cuisine. Um. Yeah, you can use them in
warm or cold dishes. Um. They're often more of a
garnish than anything else. So yeah, pasta, salad, soup, sandwiches,
anything fish related. Put some capers and some tuna salad.
Oh my gosh, I want to do that literally right now.
(09:58):
Um uh yeah, they can be an ingredient in toponnads
and remolodes. You usually don't want to cook them too
hard as the crunch and that aforementioned flavor bomby nous
is kind of part of the fund, so you usually
add them in towards the end. Um. That being said, though,
they are really good if you pan fry them, um,
(10:18):
because their petals get all crisp. I've never done that.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's so good. Um. Yeah, just
just press them dry first so that you don't get
a pop and spatter as the as the water boils
off inside them. Sure, sure, for sure. And okay I
have an episode idea tartar sauce. Oh since you mentioned that. Yeah, yes,
(10:41):
mostully for SpongeBob jokes. Oh oh I don't get that,
but cool. Yes, it's just kind of like a oh
tartar sauce. Oh I have seen that. Actually. Okay, there
you are. I'm back with you. I'm back with you. Perfect. Also,
I just want to talk about SpongeBob and I'm looking
for any excuse to do SpongeBob Crabby Patty. Okay, all right,
(11:02):
back to the caper. What about the nutrition? Uh, y'all um,
if if you're eating enough capers to have a real
nutritive impact. I have questions. I'm not judging you, but
I have a number of questions. Um. That that being said,
they pack a lot of flavor with very little caloric impact. UM.
(11:23):
You know, they've got a little bit of fibers and
vitamins and minerals. The only thing to watch out for
is that they can have a lot assault from being preserved. UM.
So yeah, watch out for that if that is a
thing that you watch out for. Um. They have long
been used for medicinal purposes in various cultures, for all
kinds of things. The two that I saw the most
(11:43):
often um were to reduce arthritis and rheumatism um and
to reduce flatulence. So okay, yeah, I can't. I'm we
are not doctors, and neither are the papers that I
gleaned that information from the papers doctors. No, not to
my personal knowledge, all right, And capers um are though
(12:07):
currently being investigated for for um some possible like heart
and brain health related effects like positive effects um probably
among other things. I you know, sure, yeah, yeah, we
do have a few numbers for you. I will say
that there are dozens of different varieties um uh in
(12:29):
basically all of the different little microclimates and places that
grow them. Um. And seemingly they've got their their plant
with a really good genetic diversity, so that's cool cool um.
And the past few decades, caper cultivation has gone up
to meat rising demand and the US imports about ten
million dollars worth of capers every year. So like capers. Yeah, yeah,
(12:52):
we do, we do have. We liked them throughout history though, Yeah,
pretty much. Way to blow the lead, Laura, Yeah, yeah,
you can just stow it, stop listening now, that's it.
Darn it. I was gonna weave a tail of whoa
(13:13):
and suspense, but you should stick around anyway because it
is still interesting. It is. Yeah, but yes, we're going
to get into that history. But first we're going to
take a quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(13:36):
and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So
capers are old, old, several millennia old. They most likely
originated in the Mediterranean or West and Central Asia, or
possibly several native species all over Australia to Africa, to Asia,
to the Middle East to Europe. A lot of theories
(13:57):
going on there. Yes, her only uncertain um, and and
even exactly how old they are is currently uncertain um.
I read that some archaeological evidence um that people were
eating capers may go back as far as seventeen thousand
years ago in what's now Egypt. Um. There's also evidence
which is a little bit more solid, I think, from
(14:19):
from around like fifty eight hundred b C. And what's
now Iraq and BC in China. So old, yeah. Yes.
Perhaps the first recorded use of capers as a food
comes from the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh from two thousand
b C. They were also mentioned in the Bible. Capers
(14:43):
were viewed as say it with me now and afro
yup during Biblical times, and in the n Jewish Encyclopedia
is explained that the Hebrew word for caper berry is
closely linked to the Hebrew word for desire. Huh. Yeah.
Ancient Greeks knew about capers and disparieties, and plenty the
(15:06):
Elder wrote about them, as did several other well known
ancient Greeks, along with the ancient Romans. The Greeks used
them as a condiment, and they used it in all
kinds of things, meat, sauces, dressings with cheeses. I know,
going back to Anthony Listener, Anthony's original question when he
wrote us about the Keeper about why did people eat
(15:29):
this thing that was potentially poisonous? Why did they start
pickling it brining it? The basic question we all ask
a lot of times is why why when did humans
realize they could eat this thing? Yeah. I tried really
hard to get the bottom of it of when people
started pickling brian and capers to eat them, and the
answer seems to be pretty much as soon as people
started eating them. Yeah. Yeah, that's just been the way
(15:51):
that humans have always eaten this thing. Yeah, and they
were they were very very bitter, so practically inedible otherwise,
but again not so much in the way of concrete
evidence approved for in the historical record, but that seems
to be the consensus. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that they're yeah,
very bitter and very um stringent, like we'll just suck
all the moisture right off your tongue, right right. And
(16:14):
people love pickling things, brightening things. Yeah, they lasts longer,
it is, huh. The Epicious, widely seen as one of
the first, if not the first, cookbook, included capers as
a seasoning and this was compiled in the fourth or
fifth century ce um. A surgeon during the Renaissance, Ambrose
Pear wrote of capers, capers are good, and that they
(16:37):
sharpen the appetite and relieve the bile. Okay, okay, indeed,
um vio pacada. Oh, there's a lot of you. We
shouldn't be surprised at all. At this point. There's a
lot of debate about the history of this dish, but
it is believed to be the product of Italian American
(16:57):
immigrants in the nineteen thirties. Again, a lot of unknowns,
a lot of like. No, it definitely came from this
down in Italy in the no, do we need to
do a Picata episode? Oh? Yes, yes, I would be down.
Oh and speaking of very similarly, today, I learned about
(17:18):
the history of pasta putninesca, which I've never heard of.
Um no, no, So if you don't know, if you're
like me, you didn't know. Is a sauce made of
a mixture of olives, anchovies, capers, and tomatoes, with other
optional ingredients like red pepper, flicks and garlic. Kept. Sure,
it can be customized further, but generally um, okay, So
(17:38):
apparently the name it translates to lady of the night,
and the sauce originated in Italy, probably Naples, much later
than any other Italian sauces, like during or after World
War Two. At the time, there weren't many career options
for women in Italy, and one of the few of
them was sex work, which is fairly common. There are
(17:58):
a lot, a lot, a lot a lot of conflicting
origin stories about this point also UM, but the popular,
most likely certainly in my my untrue story, is that
women cooked up the sauce between clients. But sauce isn't
exactly like a quick fix, like takes some time. The
(18:20):
other explanation is that it has to do with aromatics
make of that, which you will um Yeah, so shrug,
I guess, but yeah, but you should totally try and
putnesca there. It's um. All of those little salty elements
with um, with the sweetness of the tomatoes is just
(18:40):
really delightful. Yeah, it sounds delicious to me. It sounds
really good. Yeah, I'm in it. Uh. And capers are
currently um. In addition to being an investigation for a
few possible medicinal properties, UM are an investigation for use
in areas experiencing drought due to climate change as like
(19:03):
a new added crop because because they're they're hardy and
they're scrambly, um, so their roots help lock in soil
to prevent erosion. Um. And they can kind of keep
growing when other plants can't due to loss of water.
So yeah, good for capers. Hmm. I forgot to look up.
(19:27):
I did look at up, but I can't remember, so
the answer must not have been that interesting. But I
I looked into why we call like mysteries capers and
when we started doing that, But I guess the answer
wasn't in I'm like, I read that too, and now
it's it's unrelated etymologies. Um. But I don't. I think
(19:50):
the word caper has just kind of been similar for
a very very very long time, um, for a number
of different languages. Um. I think that s accidentally got
dropped at some point when English speaking people assumed that
it was a plural when it wasn't in prior iterations. Um.
(20:11):
But interesting, but yeah, now I don't I skimmed over
the other part. Now I'm I'm kicking myself, Like, never
skim vocal bomb, you know better? Skim, never skim. But
you know what, recently a friend, a friend of mine,
(20:33):
she was kind enough and also I guess a masochist
to um watch me play the last of us to
all the way through. Oh my heck, and she has.
She says. My slogan should be Annie Reese never learns
her less so never skim, but perhaps never learned the
(20:57):
list it's not wrong. Well, well there you go, there
you go. You know, perhaps one of the listeners knows
the answer to this caper. Caper. But speaking up, we
do have some listener mail for you. We do. But
first we've got one more quick break for a word
(21:18):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with caper. I was trying
to do the mission impossible voice. But then I realized,
(21:40):
like I don't know that voice. Never learned my lesson.
I never I should never go into a listener mail
jingle without a firm vision in mind. Well you know,
I look forward to you never learning your lesson. Thank you, Lauren,
(22:01):
because you are the one that will suffer have the listeners,
so thank you, and I apologize. We're all we're all
having a fine time. I hope. So speaking of Emily
wrote about ten years ago at university, my friends and
I took a slightly different route while expressing our geek
love via food. This was during the height of Sherlock
(22:23):
Holmes revival and we held a bakery street a regulars party.
Instead of cooking Victorian fair we recreated the characters as
punny treats. There was Sherloaf, Holmes and Johnny Cake, Wheatson,
Professor Maury Tarty, Irene pudding lerb Sebastian Merangue, among others.
(22:46):
We even created a few unfortunate murder victims out of
the pie dough left over from the Maury Tart. I
no longer have the digital photo files, but please find
these four quality iPhone photos of photos. No, they were great,
Thank you so much. Um one to pick Sherloaf and
my crust Holmes with Johnny Cake in front in the
second a disembowed pastry person. Many googly eyes were used irresponsibility.
(23:12):
That is so good and they looked really amazing. Yes,
fantastic work. The pluns top match. I've got to try
this out, like, oh my gosh, um Sarah wrote, I
know what you should do with all that vodka. What
(23:34):
I just listened to your delightful episode on Edna Lewis,
and after listener mail, when you were talking about all
your excess vodka and apricots, I knew I had to
write in. I realized enough time has passed since recording
that the apricots are probably gone. But if you can
get a hold of more stone fruit, I have just
the thing for you. Last year, my boyfriend and I
picked a bunch of plums from the tree that hung
(23:55):
over his backyard. Astonishingly, even though he had lived there
for several years, he had never got around harvesting any plums.
Turns out they were delicious. They are Italian plums, which
are a smaller variety with a higher concentration of fermentable sugars.
They were getting over ripe fast, so I took a
weekend and looked up some things to do with them.
Enter sleeve of beats and gosh, I just look this up.
(24:18):
I hope that I'm saying it correctly. We've mentioned it
on the show before, but I don't remember how I
was pronounced. So anyway, I'm gonna go with sleeve beats. Yes,
oh yeah, you mentioned this drink briefly on your episode
on peram awhile back. At the time of this story,
I had never heard of it, and I found a
recipe for it which used fresh plums, vodka, sugar, lemon peel,
and a cinnamon stick. Seeing as I had all the
(24:38):
ingredients on hand, I gave it a shot. Here's how
it goes. Wash the plums and score the skins. Put
your ingredients in a glass container which can be tightly sealed,
and pour the vodka over it for the next two weeks.
Turn the bottle or bottles over once daily. Then let's
sit in a dark, cool place for three months. At
that point, strain everything out of the alcohol and bottle
(24:59):
it however you like. I used the old vodka bottle.
The sleeve of beats should be ready by the winter holidays,
but the longer you let it sit, the better it tastes.
To date, it was one of my most successful food experiments.
You may not know it, but that's saying something. It's
one of the most delicious drinks I've ever had. My
recipe might be too sweet for Lauren, but part of
the beauty of making it yourself is customizing it to
(25:21):
your own tastes. We drank the lust for our batch
in late winter, a week or two before I listen
to your param podcast, and it was even more delicious. Then.
When I learned the drink's origins, it made so much
sense that it is a drink mint for that time
of year. This year, I bought four big handles of
vodka so I can make much more of it and
also experiment with different fruits and flavors. Currently, I have
(25:43):
a batch of raspberry apricot and a batch of mixed
berries steeping in my basement, and as soon as I
get my hands on some plums, I'll have a lot
more sleeve of beats on the way. I may try
and send some out to you ladies in Georgia when
it's ready. Drink responsibly, winky face, right, I would not
say no to that. That sounds delicious, Yeah, yeah, I.
(26:06):
I I encourage everyone to follow local laws about shipping
alcohol across state borders and um. Also, if some happened
to find its way to me, I wouldn't turn it
down at all. Nope, nope, not at all. But also,
thank you so much for their recipe. I'm loving all
these recipes here a great so great. Um. Well, Thank
(26:31):
you to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can. Our
email is hello at saborpod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
In all three places, our screen name is at savor
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app,
(26:53):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers still in Fagin and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're
talking about capers. Uh huh and shout out to Anthony
for the suggestion. He's been on our mind ever since
we read that listener mail. And Lauren, you have discovered
that you have two jars of capers. Yes, I yeah,
(00:28):
well too, not to like full jars, um, that would
be wild, um, But no, No, I've got to like
half empty jars. Because clearly, I mean, like, capers are delicious.
I love a caper, um, but I don't think to
purchase them unless I'm like making a recipe um calls
for them, and then I'm like, oh crap, why would
(00:49):
I have capers? I should go buy some capers. And
apparently I've done that at least twice. So um it
happens to the best of us. Yeah. Yeah, but but
but it meant that I got to do some you know,
hands on research this morning. Yes. Yes, ever the professional
Lauren vocal bomb. If there's anything in my fridge you
(01:10):
ever need me to eat, I'm on it. Noted noted
it was like Chinese mustard packs you have or something. Sure, Yeah,
now I love a mustard pack. Yeah, why not? There
you go? All right, all right, I believe it. I
was on site stuff. Don't don't thrend me a time,
(01:32):
don't test you. I got it, I got it, all right.
I vowed to you to refer to you in this
matter respect Um, I too love capers. There was a
pasta dish I loved growing up that had capers, and
the capers were key. I wish I could remember what
else was involved, but the capers were key. And I
(01:53):
went through a very big peccatta phase phase and then
once I'm oh, I know I've talked about it before
on the show, so traumatic for me. My little brother
came home on Thanksgiving and told me he was vegetarian.
News to me, like the day of Thanksgiving, like you've
already been up since like four am, cooking turkey and stuff,
(02:15):
and yeah, suddenly he's like, hey vegetarian now, Hi. Yeah.
I was scrambling to to find things that I could
make for them, and I ended up making this like
potato roasted potato mushroom and caper dish that was delicious
and I make to this day, oh wow, that does
sound delicious. I don't think I've ever heard a description
of what it was that sounds that sounds tasty. I
(02:37):
would eat that also, yeah, pata i. That is one
of the things that I have a hard time not
ordering on the menu if I see oh yeah, so good,
so good, so simple, so good. But all right, let's
get to our questions. Capers what are they? Well, capers
(03:00):
are tangy edible flower buds, specifically from the caper bush. One.
Don't worry. There's a little bit of complication in here somewhere.
The botanical name is Caparus spinosa. And this is a
this is a scrambly type thorny, spiny, maybe evergreen shrub
(03:23):
that that only ever grows as much as like three
ft or in meter tall, but spreads out a lot um.
It's like a like a rocky cliff crevice sort of shrub,
you know. Um, it's a pretty temperate plant of flowers
in the summer, and the blooms are beautiful white petals
with these long purple stamens bursting out from the center
(03:43):
like a like a firework. It's it's gorgeous. Um. I'm
mad that I don't have any ornamental capers, and all
of my rock cliffs that I have around my home,
I don't have. What if you've got um an ornamental
caper sold or pepper shaker, I dare not imagine the beauty.
(04:04):
Does it exist? I know that it does somewhere. If not,
then we just put it out there and the universe
is obliged. Yes, it must come into parishion, it must exist.
Um That this shrub is in the Caparassier family, which
means that they are cousins to the Brassicassier plants mustards
(04:27):
and turnips, broccoli, stuff like that, and they share a
bit of that peppery kick. Yeah. Those flower buds are
harvested when they're still immature, like we little green nubs
that haven't bloomed yet into that beautiful flower. Um That
the buds are about the size of a pea, and
they range in size from a little smaller to a
little larger than said p. But um, but the smallest
(04:49):
are generally the most expensive. Um and primarily from what
I can tell, only because they're more labor intensive to pick.
No particular quality one way or another. Yeah, I read
a lot articles about that, about how people are missing
out on the bigger ones because they just assume more offensive.
Yeah better, Yeah, yeah, yeah, very your your caper size.
(05:11):
The next time you go shopping for some barrier caper size,
let us know what you think. It gets some from
different regions around the Mediterranean. They largely grow in the
Mediterranean anyway. Um uh yeah. They are often pickled um,
which adds to their They're already like bitter, peppery, floral, lemony,
all of the fruitally savory tang thing that they've got
(05:34):
going on. Um. Adding to all of that this like
heavy punch of salt and sour from um, whatever combination
of brine and wine and or vinegar you use to
to do the pickling um. And the result is that
they are just these little flavor bombs um. And the
texture is soft but with like a little bit of
that vegetible crunch um, like like pickled cucumber or something
(05:57):
like that would have. Yeah. Yeah, they are like just
one it's powerful, so flavorful. Oh yeah yeah, it's a
little bit. A little bit goes a long way. Um.
You can you can chop them up and spread them
out a little bit. But I really like having just
that full mouthful of like oh what did I just do? Yeah?
And I like tiny crunch. I love that. Huh. Um.
(06:19):
If you pickle them by fermenting um, you will indeed
get some additional like tart and smooth flavors um from bacteria. Pooh,
it feels like a spent a minute since we've done that.
I think it has. We haven't talked about a lot
of ferments very lately. Well, I'm glad we got to
(06:41):
remedy you that today. Me too. Always fill in that
bingo card kids, um uh. If you um don't pickle them,
you can also preserve them um packed dry in salt,
which creates a final product with them, perhaps obviously less
like vinegar tang um. And that will allow some more
(07:01):
of those floral notes to come through. And these are
a little bit pricier and harder to find out of Europe,
and people who have opinions about these kind of things
say that say that they are a superior product. H
So okay, I wouldn't know. I'm not that fancy yet neither. Yes, Um,
(07:24):
A lot of recipes do you recommend um soaking either
type of caper in water for like twenty minutes half
an hour before using them in recipes so that you
dial down some of that vinegar and or salt content
and let the other flavors shine through. I've never done that,
but maybe I maybe maybe I'm a weirdo. I don't know,
maybe we're both weirdos. That's I have a suspicion. I yes,
(07:48):
perhaps I don't know what you're talking about, Lauren, totally
normal here twenty thou thank you Annie, this is I'm sure. Yep,
that's the most confident answer you could expect. Um. And
if you've ever seen caper berries, uh, those are the
(08:09):
fruits that would develop if you allowed the caper bud
to bloom and grow, and you also pick caper berries
green and unripe. Um. They wind up being larger than
capers perhaps obviously again um about the size of an
olive or so um, and have a less peppery flavor.
They're also often pickled. Yes, and I didn't want to
(08:31):
put in here. A lot of times the smaller ones
are called nonperier, which that sounds like the water. It does.
So what I'm trying to say, um No, it means
in French forget my pronunciation, I butgered it. You know
what I'm talking about. It means unparalleled. Oh, that's what
that means I assumed that like that, like etymologically, it
(08:54):
was like tiny in some way that I wasn't understanding
because French. Um, but yeah, that's yeah, but unparalleled is
much sweeter. I like that. Yes, yes, I would love
to be a product that was labeled on paralleled. Gosh. Yeah,
but it could be a back ended compliment, couldn't it.
That's true, but as you know, those are one of
(09:16):
my favorite reviews. Um. So either way, yeah, we're not weirdos,
We're just unparalleled, exactly exactly. Um. So, capers are in
all kinds of dishes as a condiment or ingredient. Um
with smoked salmon on bagels and this swas salad, um,
chicken and veal, pocada, as we said, pasta pudanesca, sometimes
(09:38):
in a marteti, in tartar sauce, and yes, very popular
in Mediterranean cuisine. Um. Yeah, you can use them in
warm or cold dishes. Um. They're often more of a
garnish than anything else. So yeah, pasta, salad, soup, sandwiches,
anything fish related. Put some capers and some tuna salad.
Oh my gosh, I want to do that literally right now.
(09:58):
Um uh yeah, they can be an ingredient in toponnads
and remolodes. You usually don't want to cook them too
hard as the crunch and that aforementioned flavor bomby nous
is kind of part of the fund, so you usually
add them in towards the end. Um. That being said, though,
they are really good if you pan fry them, um,
(10:18):
because their petals get all crisp. I've never done that.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, it's so good. Um. Yeah, just
just press them dry first so that you don't get
a pop and spatter as the as the water boils
off inside them. Sure, sure, for sure. And okay I
have an episode idea tartar sauce. Oh since you mentioned that. Yeah, yes,
(10:41):
mostully for SpongeBob jokes. Oh oh I don't get that,
but cool. Yes, it's just kind of like a oh
tartar sauce. Oh I have seen that. Actually. Okay, there
you are. I'm back with you. I'm back with you. Perfect. Also,
I just want to talk about SpongeBob and I'm looking
for any excuse to do SpongeBob Crabby Patty. Okay, all right,
(11:02):
back to the caper. What about the nutrition? Uh, y'all um,
if if you're eating enough capers to have a real
nutritive impact. I have questions. I'm not judging you, but
I have a number of questions. Um. That that being said,
they pack a lot of flavor with very little caloric impact. UM.
(11:23):
You know, they've got a little bit of fibers and
vitamins and minerals. The only thing to watch out for
is that they can have a lot assault from being preserved. UM.
So yeah, watch out for that if that is a
thing that you watch out for. Um. They have long
been used for medicinal purposes in various cultures, for all
kinds of things. The two that I saw the most
(11:43):
often um were to reduce arthritis and rheumatism um and
to reduce flatulence. So okay, yeah, I can't. I'm we
are not doctors, and neither are the papers that I
gleaned that information from the papers doctors. No, not to
my personal knowledge, all right, And capers um are though
(12:07):
currently being investigated for for um some possible like heart
and brain health related effects like positive effects um probably
among other things. I you know, sure, yeah, yeah, we
do have a few numbers for you. I will say
that there are dozens of different varieties um uh in
(12:29):
basically all of the different little microclimates and places that
grow them. Um. And seemingly they've got their their plant
with a really good genetic diversity, so that's cool cool um.
And the past few decades, caper cultivation has gone up
to meat rising demand and the US imports about ten
million dollars worth of capers every year. So like capers. Yeah, yeah,
(12:52):
we do, we do have. We liked them throughout history though, Yeah,
pretty much. Way to blow the lead, Laura, Yeah, yeah,
you can just stow it, stop listening now, that's it.
Darn it. I was gonna weave a tail of whoa
(13:13):
and suspense, but you should stick around anyway because it
is still interesting. It is. Yeah, but yes, we're going
to get into that history. But first we're going to
take a quick break for a word from our sponsor,
(13:36):
and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So
capers are old, old, several millennia old. They most likely
originated in the Mediterranean or West and Central Asia, or
possibly several native species all over Australia to Africa, to Asia,
to the Middle East to Europe. A lot of theories
(13:57):
going on there. Yes, her only uncertain um, and and
even exactly how old they are is currently uncertain um.
I read that some archaeological evidence um that people were
eating capers may go back as far as seventeen thousand
years ago in what's now Egypt. Um. There's also evidence
which is a little bit more solid, I think, from
(14:19):
from around like fifty eight hundred b C. And what's
now Iraq and BC in China. So old, yeah. Yes.
Perhaps the first recorded use of capers as a food
comes from the Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh from two thousand
b C. They were also mentioned in the Bible. Capers
(14:43):
were viewed as say it with me now and afro
yup during Biblical times, and in the n Jewish Encyclopedia
is explained that the Hebrew word for caper berry is
closely linked to the Hebrew word for desire. Huh. Yeah.
Ancient Greeks knew about capers and disparieties, and plenty the
(15:06):
Elder wrote about them, as did several other well known
ancient Greeks, along with the ancient Romans. The Greeks used
them as a condiment, and they used it in all
kinds of things, meat, sauces, dressings with cheeses. I know,
going back to Anthony Listener, Anthony's original question when he
wrote us about the Keeper about why did people eat
(15:29):
this thing that was potentially poisonous? Why did they start
pickling it brining it? The basic question we all ask
a lot of times is why why when did humans
realize they could eat this thing? Yeah. I tried really
hard to get the bottom of it of when people
started pickling brian and capers to eat them, and the
answer seems to be pretty much as soon as people
started eating them. Yeah. Yeah, that's just been the way
(15:51):
that humans have always eaten this thing. Yeah, and they
were they were very very bitter, so practically inedible otherwise,
but again not so much in the way of concrete
evidence approved for in the historical record, but that seems
to be the consensus. Yeah. Yeah, I've heard that they're yeah,
very bitter and very um stringent, like we'll just suck
all the moisture right off your tongue, right right. And
(16:14):
people love pickling things, brightening things. Yeah, they lasts longer,
it is, huh. The Epicious, widely seen as one of
the first, if not the first, cookbook, included capers as
a seasoning and this was compiled in the fourth or
fifth century ce um. A surgeon during the Renaissance, Ambrose
Pear wrote of capers, capers are good, and that they
(16:37):
sharpen the appetite and relieve the bile. Okay, okay, indeed,
um vio pacada. Oh, there's a lot of you. We
shouldn't be surprised at all. At this point. There's a
lot of debate about the history of this dish, but
it is believed to be the product of Italian American
(16:57):
immigrants in the nineteen thirties. Again, a lot of unknowns,
a lot of like. No, it definitely came from this
down in Italy in the no, do we need to
do a Picata episode? Oh? Yes, yes, I would be down.
Oh and speaking of very similarly, today, I learned about
(17:18):
the history of pasta putninesca, which I've never heard of.
Um no, no, So if you don't know, if you're
like me, you didn't know. Is a sauce made of
a mixture of olives, anchovies, capers, and tomatoes, with other
optional ingredients like red pepper, flicks and garlic. Kept. Sure,
it can be customized further, but generally um, okay, So
(17:38):
apparently the name it translates to lady of the night,
and the sauce originated in Italy, probably Naples, much later
than any other Italian sauces, like during or after World
War Two. At the time, there weren't many career options
for women in Italy, and one of the few of
them was sex work, which is fairly common. There are
(17:58):
a lot, a lot, a lot a lot of conflicting
origin stories about this point also UM, but the popular,
most likely certainly in my my untrue story, is that
women cooked up the sauce between clients. But sauce isn't
exactly like a quick fix, like takes some time. The
(18:20):
other explanation is that it has to do with aromatics
make of that, which you will um Yeah, so shrug,
I guess, but yeah, but you should totally try and
putnesca there. It's um. All of those little salty elements
with um, with the sweetness of the tomatoes is just
(18:40):
really delightful. Yeah, it sounds delicious to me. It sounds
really good. Yeah, I'm in it. Uh. And capers are
currently um. In addition to being an investigation for a
few possible medicinal properties, UM are an investigation for use
in areas experiencing drought due to climate change as like
(19:03):
a new added crop because because they're they're hardy and
they're scrambly, um, so their roots help lock in soil
to prevent erosion. Um. And they can kind of keep
growing when other plants can't due to loss of water.
So yeah, good for capers. Hmm. I forgot to look up.
(19:27):
I did look at up, but I can't remember, so
the answer must not have been that interesting. But I
I looked into why we call like mysteries capers and
when we started doing that, But I guess the answer
wasn't in I'm like, I read that too, and now
it's it's unrelated etymologies. Um. But I don't. I think
(19:50):
the word caper has just kind of been similar for
a very very very long time, um, for a number
of different languages. Um. I think that s accidentally got
dropped at some point when English speaking people assumed that
it was a plural when it wasn't in prior iterations. Um.
(20:11):
But interesting, but yeah, now I don't I skimmed over
the other part. Now I'm I'm kicking myself, Like, never
skim vocal bomb, you know better? Skim, never skim. But
you know what, recently a friend, a friend of mine,
(20:33):
she was kind enough and also I guess a masochist
to um watch me play the last of us to
all the way through. Oh my heck, and she has.
She says. My slogan should be Annie Reese never learns
her less so never skim, but perhaps never learned the
(20:57):
list it's not wrong. Well, well there you go, there
you go. You know, perhaps one of the listeners knows
the answer to this caper. Caper. But speaking up, we
do have some listener mail for you. We do. But
first we've got one more quick break for a word
(21:18):
from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you, and we're back with caper. I was trying
to do the mission impossible voice. But then I realized,
(21:40):
like I don't know that voice. Never learned my lesson.
I never I should never go into a listener mail
jingle without a firm vision in mind. Well you know,
I look forward to you never learning your lesson. Thank you, Lauren,
(22:01):
because you are the one that will suffer have the listeners,
so thank you, and I apologize. We're all we're all
having a fine time. I hope. So speaking of Emily
wrote about ten years ago at university, my friends and
I took a slightly different route while expressing our geek
love via food. This was during the height of Sherlock
(22:23):
Holmes revival and we held a bakery street a regulars party.
Instead of cooking Victorian fair we recreated the characters as
punny treats. There was Sherloaf, Holmes and Johnny Cake, Wheatson,
Professor Maury Tarty, Irene pudding lerb Sebastian Merangue, among others.
(22:46):
We even created a few unfortunate murder victims out of
the pie dough left over from the Maury Tart. I
no longer have the digital photo files, but please find
these four quality iPhone photos of photos. No, they were great,
Thank you so much. Um one to pick Sherloaf and
my crust Holmes with Johnny Cake in front in the
second a disembowed pastry person. Many googly eyes were used irresponsibility.
(23:12):
That is so good and they looked really amazing. Yes,
fantastic work. The pluns top match. I've got to try
this out, like, oh my gosh, um Sarah wrote, I
know what you should do with all that vodka. What
(23:34):
I just listened to your delightful episode on Edna Lewis,
and after listener mail, when you were talking about all
your excess vodka and apricots, I knew I had to
write in. I realized enough time has passed since recording
that the apricots are probably gone. But if you can
get a hold of more stone fruit, I have just
the thing for you. Last year, my boyfriend and I
picked a bunch of plums from the tree that hung
(23:55):
over his backyard. Astonishingly, even though he had lived there
for several years, he had never got around harvesting any plums.
Turns out they were delicious. They are Italian plums, which
are a smaller variety with a higher concentration of fermentable sugars.
They were getting over ripe fast, so I took a
weekend and looked up some things to do with them.
Enter sleeve of beats and gosh, I just look this up.
(24:18):
I hope that I'm saying it correctly. We've mentioned it
on the show before, but I don't remember how I
was pronounced. So anyway, I'm gonna go with sleeve beats. Yes,
oh yeah, you mentioned this drink briefly on your episode
on peram awhile back. At the time of this story,
I had never heard of it, and I found a
recipe for it which used fresh plums, vodka, sugar, lemon peel,
and a cinnamon stick. Seeing as I had all the
(24:38):
ingredients on hand, I gave it a shot. Here's how
it goes. Wash the plums and score the skins. Put
your ingredients in a glass container which can be tightly sealed,
and pour the vodka over it for the next two weeks.
Turn the bottle or bottles over once daily. Then let's
sit in a dark, cool place for three months. At
that point, strain everything out of the alcohol and bottle
(24:59):
it however you like. I used the old vodka bottle.
The sleeve of beats should be ready by the winter holidays,
but the longer you let it sit, the better it tastes.
To date, it was one of my most successful food experiments.
You may not know it, but that's saying something. It's
one of the most delicious drinks I've ever had. My
recipe might be too sweet for Lauren, but part of
the beauty of making it yourself is customizing it to
(25:21):
your own tastes. We drank the lust for our batch
in late winter, a week or two before I listen
to your param podcast, and it was even more delicious. Then.
When I learned the drink's origins, it made so much
sense that it is a drink mint for that time
of year. This year, I bought four big handles of
vodka so I can make much more of it and
also experiment with different fruits and flavors. Currently, I have
(25:43):
a batch of raspberry apricot and a batch of mixed
berries steeping in my basement, and as soon as I
get my hands on some plums, I'll have a lot
more sleeve of beats on the way. I may try
and send some out to you ladies in Georgia when
it's ready. Drink responsibly, winky face, right, I would not
say no to that. That sounds delicious, Yeah, yeah, I.
(26:06):
I I encourage everyone to follow local laws about shipping
alcohol across state borders and um. Also, if some happened
to find its way to me, I wouldn't turn it
down at all. Nope, nope, not at all. But also,
thank you so much for their recipe. I'm loving all
these recipes here a great so great. Um. Well, Thank
(26:31):
you to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can. Our
email is hello at saborpod dot com. We're also on
social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram.
In all three places, our screen name is at savor
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Savor
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
heart Radio, you can visit the I Heart Radio app,
(26:53):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your shows. Thanks as
always to our super producers still in Fagin and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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