January 20, 2023 • 33 mins
This lace-like, semiaquatic rhizome has worked its way into all kinds of dishes – some of which are specialties for the Lunar New Year. Anney and Lauren dig into the science and history around lotus roots.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about Lotus Route. Yes, and
I was so excited about it. I put an exclamation
point after our opening line, which I shouldn't have to
write in here, but I still do, because who knows
what could happen if I don't. It's to be fair.
(00:29):
You do a different opening line for stuff Mom never
told you, and you do record that more often, or
you say it more often than you say this one.
Your brain can get jumbled with those kinds of things,
for sure. We've talked about that before, Lauren. Were the
things you say, like in every episode, like the outro
for you or the intro for me. Your brain can
if you think about it too hard, Oh yeah, yeah,
(00:51):
grinds to a halt. Yeah no, I I eat y'all.
And Andie can attest to this. Literally, every time I
do that outro, it is not written down and it
hasn't shanged aged. And I don't know two or three
d episodes now, um, but for sure, uh, I have
to close my eyes in order to concentrate hard enough
to say it every time, and we we get through it.
(01:17):
You know, we have to have these little tricks, but
we get through it every time. Yeah, with the help
of our superproducers for sure. Absolutely. Yes. But as we
record this, Lunar New Year is coming up this Sunday,
January twenty at the beginning of it. Yes, and we
thought the lotus root would be a good topic. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:41):
because it is incorporated in um a number of dishes
from a number of culinary traditions of into lunar New
Year's celebrations. Yes. And I know I've talked about this before. Uh.
I have very much enjoyed celebrating lunar New Year in
the past with a group of friends or we go
(02:01):
to dim Sum and do it um. The pandemic kind
of put a stop to that for a while. So
I I knew I had had lotus root, but I
don't think when I saw pictures of it, I was like,
oh that, I don't think that's what I was thinking of.
When I thought, okay, yeah, I realized that what I
(02:24):
had thought was a filling of lotus root in various
pastries that I've had, like moon cakes and stuff that
is actually lotus seed. Um. But yeah, but I've definitely
had like like slices fried and stuff before. It's it's
it's I like a root. It's tasty. I also like
a root. It is tasty and it's cool looking honestly,
(02:44):
all right, yeah, um oh, I did a total side note,
like there was no way for me to work this
into the actual outline, but um but I found it
so fascinating, um that I decided to include this as
a like cultural like us note. I found this whole
paper about the environmental sustainability of growing conditions of lotus
(03:10):
plants with different aquatic creatures like fish versus shrimp, and
like different stuff like that. And now I want to
build an aquarium that incorporates lotus so much I think
you should. I don't know why you're acting like this
is a thing you shouldn't be doing. The expense is
(03:33):
the reason why I'm acting like I shouldn't do it. Um,
But like I have this number of things on the
list ahead of second aquarium that are a little bit
more pressing. Um. But well, it's good to have goals.
You're right, I'm going to root for you for this
(03:56):
lotus root for you. Um Hey, that's cool. I love
when we find these very specific papers. It just brings
joy to my heart. So good, especially when they talk
about srimp. Yeah, yes, yes always. You can see our
Lunar New Year episode for more. We've also done a
(04:17):
lot of foods related to Lunar New Year as episodes,
so yeah, and various other rhizome related episodes. Of Ginger
is the one that I'm coming up with the off
the top of my head. Um. But now I'm like,
did we do Ginger? I think we did? We did great? Good? Yes,
(04:41):
someone can correct me that. I'm pretty sure we did. Yes. Well,
I guess that brings us to right question. It does
Lotus root? What is it? Well, Lotus root is the edible,
bold structure of the lotus plant, so so botanically. Um,
(05:05):
it's a storage space for starches and other nutrients that
the plant needs to to grow and to flour, and
that's why humans like eating it too. Um. It's relatively
mild in flavor, but but the texture is sort of
creamy and crunchy at the same time, like like crisp,
but in a in a tender way. Um. It can
be cooked up in any number of ways and used
(05:26):
in savory or sweet dishes. Um. It's often used as
like a tasty garnish, especially for special occasion dishes, partially
because in cross section it's got this really pretty, almost
um lacy sort of look. Because because the root is
shot through long ways with a series of holes. Yeah. Um,
it's like a it's like a more decorative hiccama uh
(05:49):
or or like a like a potato that's that's standing
up for itself a little bit more. Yeah yeah, uh
it's um it is. It's like proof that beauty isn't
always skin deep. Like sometimes it's got roots that go
all the way down again. So true, so beautiful. You
(06:09):
never know what's going on with somebody, you know, you
never know what's going on with your root into it
until you cut it cross wise and see what kind
of pretty pattern it has. All right, Well that metaphor
(06:29):
has thoroughly escaped us. Um. Alright, so so yes, so um.
Edible Lotus roots are not true roots. Um. They are
the starchy rhizome of plants in the genus n Lumbo nlumbo.
Sure one of those. Uh. There are only two species
in this genus, um and Ludia, or the American lotus
(06:49):
and an Nusifera or the Indian lotus um. But there
are a bunch of cultivars and hybrids. These are These
are aquatic plants that grow in relatively still fresh water
ponds streams. Delta's stuff like that. They grow their true
roots and their rhizomes down into the soil of the
pond bed and then sprout these long stems up to
(07:10):
the surface of the water. Um. The leaves will grow
add or above the surface, and then they produce these
really pretty flowers in shades of white and pink and
yellow that look a little bit like water lilies. Yeah. Um.
The flowers have a have a broad, flat structure at
their center that will develop into and honestly nightmarish seed
(07:32):
pod um like like, these seed pods are like one
of the images that's used in demonstrating um typophobia, the
fear of grouped holes. You know. Yeah, like if like
if you think of what you think of when you
think of that, you're probably thinking of a lotus seed head.
Oh whoam Yeah, so that's cool. Um. I love how
(07:58):
we went from like it's this beautiful thing to terrifying
holes you can fall in through now yeah. Uh, you know,
the roots of beauty can also be terrifying. Yeah, as
we all learn from glad reel Um. Sure, okay, all right.
(08:22):
All the parts of the plant are edible um and
are used in various cuisines around the world. The seeds
can be ground into a paste and used to make
beverages or in pastries like again moon cakes, or in
other desserts. The stems are used as a vegetable, the
leaves as wrappers for um, for steaming rice and other stuff.
The flowers are mostly ornamental but can be used to
(08:44):
make tea um and different varietals are grown for different purposes.
But those starchy rhizomes are arguably the meat of the plant. Uh.
They're a fall to winter crop and they grow in
these in these clusters that look a little bit like um,
like fat links of sausage um under their kind of
(09:04):
tannish skin. They're they're creamy to crisp, white in color
and have yeah, these sort of irregular rings of roundish
holes shot through the blank wise. They're prepared by by
peeling and then slicing crosswise to reveal that lacey pattern
of the holes, and then a boiled or steamed or
stir fried or deep fried or braised, pickled or preserved
(09:26):
in syrup. You can often find lotus root sold um
already peeled and sliced, canned or frozen or fresh um.
By fresh, I mean it'll be like badge in a
solution of salt water or maybe mild vinegar to preserve
the color and the flavor is mild a little bit
as sweet, tangy, creamy. Yeah. Uh. The slices are used
(09:47):
as a as a crunchy, tender vegetable in stir fries
and soups. They can be deep fried to make a
crunchy or crisp snack. In some preparation, the holes of
the roots might be stuffed with other things like a
like a mixture of horseradish and miso um or maybe
with with sweetened sticky rice, and then the slices might
be like battered and fried or or cooked up in
(10:10):
a syrup. In terms of the sticky rice, one, I've
never had that that way, and I want it right
now immediately. Uh. It can also be the root can
also be processed into a powder and then used in
like puddings or jellies or other dishes like that. Mm hmmm,
a lot of uses. Yeah, oh yeah, well, what about
(10:34):
the nutrition by themselves. Loves fruits are pretty good for you.
Blow and sugar and fat, a little bit of protein
and fiber, a good spread of micronutrients. They are a
little bit on the starchy end, so they will help
fill you up, but to keep you going param with
a protein and some fat and you know, all all
bets are off by the time you've stuffed them with
glutinous rice and drizzled them with a whole bunch of syrup.
(10:55):
Like that's a that's a different situation, but a delicious Yes. Yes,
we do have some numbers for you. Okay, so I
couldn't find too much, but China Daily reported that five
hundred thousand to seven hundred thousand hectares are growing lotus
(11:16):
root across China, largely concentrated in Hubei Province, specifically Wuhan,
which is where I lived for a couple of months.
Cool uh And just for some context there, like a
productive hector of of lotus farmland might produce some twenty
five metric tons of lotus rout a year, so multiply
(11:36):
that by five hundred to seven hundred thousand, and that's
that's like a bunch yeah, yeah, it's a bunch, and
that's just in China. Speaking of China, research has found
at least a three hundred and ten varietals of rhizome
lotus alone being grown there. Yeah. Uh and um, all right,
(12:00):
duck fact of the episode. Uh, there's almost two point
five million dollars worth of damage done to lotus crops
by ducks every year in Japan. Um. It is difficult
to research and prevent because this this, this duck damage
mostly occurs at night, those ducks. I it is. Look,
(12:25):
it's a serious economic and agricultural problem. And yes, I
mostly included this fact because I wanted to say the
words duck damage. It was pretty good. Yeah, pretty fun.
Hard too hard to not do that when you have
the opportunity, I understand. Um. I couldn't find any specific numbers,
but I did see several sources reporting that the lotus
(12:47):
market is growing, um and some of the some of
the numbers suggested quite rapidly, but a lot of that
was behind pay walls, and I couldn't sure. Yeah, I
couldn't verify it for sure, but I would be sense
to me. Yeah, as as a more culinary cultural practices
spread mm hmmm. Uh, Well, we do have some history
(13:11):
for you, Oh we do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. UM And okay,
so again, there are two species of lotus, one native
(13:33):
to North and Central America and the other to Asia.
Native Americans have also traditionally used the plant as a
food source, but today we are mostly talking about the
Asian native varieties. Yes, and also once again, unfortunately couldn't
find too many resources that I trusted about this UM
(13:55):
And I always listeners, count on you because you're all amazing,
and we answer our call if you have any UM.
But yeah, just to just to throw that out there.
And then also there were a lot of side quests
that happened, and some of these were like, oh, okay,
so this is a separate this is a whole separate
thing and not really what Yeah. Yeah, I think that
(14:17):
they're going to need to be other episodes about other
parts of the lotus and their history and uses. Yes, okay,
but for today what we have when it comes to
the origins UM. Some historians specifically cite India UM Australia,
New Guinea and some of the Middle East is where
it might have rid the lotus route might have originated. UM.
(14:40):
I couldn't quite nail down specifics on the date, but
thousands and thousands of years seems to be the consensus.
Thousand thousands of years ago UM. Some numbers claimed it
has been cultivated for at least three thousand years in
Asia specifically, for a long time, folks in Asia and
perhaps specifically China have used it medicinally or even aesthetically.
(15:03):
I saw a lot of things about that, um, and
it was viewed as a cooling food, something you might
eat to cool you down. Yes, and the lotus route
has a long history of being prized in China, and
for some it's or the lotus plant in general, uh
symbolized purity, enlightenment, fertility, rebirth, and abundance. And a part
(15:26):
of this is because how the flower would emerge from
the swamp like muddy swamp. I read in a lot
of places with beautiful white petals. Yeah, yeah, that the
flowers are really significant in artistic and religious symbolism. You've
probably seen any number of examples of what's called a
lotus throne in art like a sort of pedestal upon
(15:48):
which a revered figure stands. Yes, and it is a
special symbol of Buddhism in China. The lotus itself is
this beloved thing that is used represent the Goddess of Mercy,
which different podcasts but has a many many interpretations and personas.
But in Sanskrit their name translates to born of the
(16:12):
lotus um, and so vendors often self folded lotus buds
outside of temples dedicated to the Goddess of Mercy for
visitors to leave them as offerings, and in many depictions
her she is standing or sitting on a lotus flower.
Mm hmmm. One source reports that as far back as
(16:32):
six nine, Buddhist monks of the Big Stone Temple of
Baosha Mountain started cultivating lotus um. It's also important in
Hinduism and was revered in ancient Egypt too. But as always,
we would love for listeners to write in and confirm,
correct or add anything into this. Absolutely. Oh yes. When
(16:55):
we're talking about these cultural things, it's always kind of
like we need your we need the personal experience knowledge, yes, yes, yes,
sus yes, So no one is exactly sure how far
back Lunar New Year goes, but most estimates put it
around three thousand, five hundred years ago, and given that
Lotus was available around Dish that time, that it was
(17:18):
prized that the names uh and symbolism had a lot
going on when it came to what people wanted in
the New Year. We talked about that in our Lunar
New Year episode as a lot of times there's kind
of pun involved or something. Yes, it's yes, um. And
on top of that, the leaves themselves of the Lotus
were so handy in wrapping other popular items that was
(17:40):
something I totally forgot about. It is so true, Um,
including sticky rice and a sort of opening of the
treasure type. Dish says to reason that the Lotus has
been involved almost since the beginning of Lunar New Year's celebrations.
To me, Um and I saw it a couple of places,
but I couldn't. I didn't get the like Horror wanted. Yeah, sure, sure,
(18:03):
but it's see I mean, like the ven diagram seems
like it lines up? It does it does? Um. Jumping
way ahead. In two poet Alfred Tennyson published a collection
of poems that included one titled the lotus eaters um
And this was inspired by Greek myth mentioned in the
(18:24):
Odyssey and in it um Odysseus came across this island
where everyone eats lotus roots. People who ate the route
became blissfully ignorant or forgetful. They refused to leave and
had to be dragged back to the boat chain to
the boat two to be convinced um. And this went
(18:45):
on to inspire the r M song. Lotus was the
name of a White Lotus episode which includes a recitation
of part of the poem. And I'm a huge I
love talking about tropes. Laura knows a lot of times
in our pre episode discussions, I'm like, God, this trope,
We've got to outpack it. Um. There's one called lotus
(19:06):
eater machine, which is simply that trope of a villain
convincing you of a of vision or dream or something
is reality when it's not reality. Yeah. And uh, and
and the the the hero being stuck in this dream
world and not wanting or not being able to get out. Yes.
(19:26):
And there are a lot of theories breaking a part
of this whole, this whole ancient Greek myth that it
probably wasn't lotus root they were writing about? Um? But yeah, yeah,
yes uh. In a night book, American journalist Emily Han
wrote that lotus was more of a thing of poetry
(19:48):
then a thing of taste in the East. However, historians
argue that eating lotus froot has less to do with
poetry in China but more out of a necessar city
and a desire to make use of everything possible. So
basically this person was writing like, Oh, it's just sort
of a pretty thing. It's a symbol, right, But that
(20:13):
did not match with the reality of what was going on. Yeah,
it should be both? Why not both? Both? Why not? Um? Uh? Recently,
because because they grow in the soil of waterways, there's
been a bunch of research into both possible contamination of
(20:33):
lotus roots with with heavy metal pollution and into using
lotus plants to help clear waterways of pollution. Like this,
so really fascinating on both ends. That is fascinating. Um.
And then I just wanted to end here. There's an amazing,
beautifully written piece on Oxford, American written by SNI and
(20:58):
I hope I'm not butchering that scene in a chin
about the lotus and her memories of the lotus highly recommended. Um,
it's just really beautiful. Here's a sample. As a kid,
my absolute favorite thing to do was to walk around
Westlake in my rain boots during a summer storm, stepping
into every puddle in my path. When I finally grew
(21:18):
exhausted from all that splashing, I would stand still, holding
my breath to watch water roll off the lotus leaves.
Rain would fall into the glossy leaves and form individual
drops that were so around, so full, so perfect. They
would then roll all around the leaf as if they
were teasing the other droplets, getting bigger and rounder on
their way, eventually falling to the leaf's center, where all
(21:39):
the droplets beaded together. When the bead got large and
heavy enough, the wind would inevitably make the leave tremble,
catapulting it into the pond. It made the most wonderfully
playful sound. I later learned that lotus leaves stay dry
because of their super hydrophobic surfaces. The nano structure of
the leaves surface is woven tightly together with micro bumps
(21:59):
all long its edges. This means lotus sleeves are not
only water repellent, but they are also self cleaning. As
water droplets roll around the leaf, they attract small particles
of dirt. Because lotus sleeves clean themselves, they also make
the perfect wrappers for our regional cuisine. Long long before
the invention of plastic wraps, many dim sum and dessert
dishes were traditionally wrapped and dried lotus leaves. I love that.
(22:25):
That is so lovely, like the painting of the picture,
the setting of the scene, and then like the sound
I can imagine that, I can hear it, and then
I love the kind of that's totally our jam word
and the perfect yes and used for all these dishes.
And that's just another example of like, you know, how
(22:46):
food can transport you and these celebrations can transport you.
But also I hadn't thought about that. I wish I had,
But like the lotus sleeves as a wrapping. Yeah, when
we finally dive into our dim Sum Mini series expedition,
(23:07):
I uh fugue state. Yeah, it's it's going to be.
We're definitely gonna have to talk more about all of that. Yes, Oh,
I look forward to it, even though I'm already preemptively
overwhelmed by it, But look forward to it. Yes, yes,
so well, I think that's what we have to say
(23:28):
about Lotus Root for now it is again, we would
love to hear from y'all and uh and we do
have some listener mail prepared for you, and we will
get into that as soon as we get back from
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
(23:48):
We're back than yes, thank you, and we're back fireworks. Oh.
I was going to do the blank ruts, but I
feel like I've done a lot of the spiral motion
lately in the listener email jingle. I put some thought
(24:11):
into this. I promise not a lot, but I do
put some thought into it. Uh. So we have one
epically amazing listener email for you today. It's kind of long,
so we're just doing one. Um, but it is so good.
(24:32):
I'm so excited about it. Um So, if you remember
Megan listener, Megan wrote in about being Nerd sniped about
this question of whether or not marshmallows and their thermo
quality make a hot chocolate cool down faster, keep it
(24:55):
warmer for longer, longer, and had said that they were
going to take this question to Uh. There were a
holiday party, yes, and we begged shamelessly. Uh to please
please follow up if you do it, and Megan did.
(25:16):
Megan did this, followed up with an amazing thing. Laura
and I are going to split this because it's amazing. Yes, yes,
all right, Megan wrote, I have results. Since I'm geeking
out about this anyway, here's a fake laboraport for you
(25:38):
with my findings. Motivation. Determine how the addition of marshmallows
affects the temperature of a cup of hot chocolate. The
marshmallows on top of the liquid act as an insulator,
preventing heat being transferred from the liquid to the air
around it, but they also melt, which is a phase
change that requires energy to be added to the marshmallow
from the liquid, which would cool the liquid down own.
(26:00):
This experiment will determine which of these factors contribute most
to the final temperature. Procedure. Heat water in a large
urn and dispense into identical cups, so all cups of
hot chocolate will be made with the same temperature of water.
Bonus party attendees also get a source of water for
their own warm beverages. Follow instructions on the hot chocolate mix.
(26:23):
Add recommended amount of mixed two cups of hot water,
stir until fully dissolved. Add marshmallows to one cup. I
use three large ones. Measure temperatures that both comes at
regular ish intervals without mixing or otherwise disturbing the liquids.
I used my instant read thermometers from home, but a
colleague of mine shout out to Adam pointed out that
(26:45):
there are fancy thermal probes for the lab courses that
would read the tempts and make a plot automatically. So
we set up another two cups of hot chocolate using
that thermometer, following steps one through three, multiple trials, Okay,
results and discussion. Marshmallows keep hot chocolate warmer than no marshmallows.
(27:07):
Those setups show the same behavior. We're both cups with
and without marshmallows cool, but the cup with marshmallows is
consistently one to two degrees celsius or two to three
degrees fahrenheit warmer than the cup without marshmallows. See plots
top as data taken with instant wreath thermometers. Bottoms data
from the lab thermometer red equals marshmallow blue eagules no
(27:30):
marshmallows for both plots. Noticed that the time scales are different,
with the top plot going for ninety minutes while the
bottom only last thirty minutes. As I realized while discussing
the experiment with the student, the energy needed to melt
the marshmallows will be very small due to their very
small mass, so it will not remove enough energy from
the hot chocolate to counteract the heat retained by their
(27:52):
insulating effect. Okay, she continues, Um, there are a few
caveats to the six speariment. First, I didn't weigh the
amount of hot chocolate powder in each cup, so that
might have made some cups more or less chocolate, though
I don't believe this would have a big effect on
the outcome. A future, more precise trial could be done
(28:12):
to eliminate this issue. Second, as you can see in
the plots, uh, the cups didn't start exactly the same temperature,
though the difference is only about point five degrees celsius.
I suspect this is because of the heat lost during
the time between making the first and second cups of
hot chocolate. This amount of time could be reduced by
reversing the order of making the hot chocolate up, put
(28:32):
the powder in the cup first and then add the
hot water, and having multiple people stir the cups so
it happens at the same time rather than one after
the other. Finally, as mentioned in the procedure section um,
the cups were not mixed after the initial preparation, which
is not a good model of how people drink hot chocolate,
and left the melted marshmallow foam sitting on top of
(28:54):
the liquid, which may have insulated the hot chocolate longer
than would be typical. Future your work, the first step
to expand on these results would be to actually weigh
the hot chocolate mix and each cup to ensure each
cup has the same amount, and to add the water
after so that the hot chocolate is prepared and as
close to the same amount of time as possible to
reduce the difference in initial temperature. Next, the cups could
(29:16):
be stirred or otherwise mixed after the initial preparation to
simulate how a cup of liquid is mixed while someone
is taking a sip of it. We could also remove
a sip's worth of liquid each time this is done
to make the experiment even more realistic. Third, I'm interested
in how other types of marshmallows and toppings affect the temperature.
I wanted to try whipped cream, mini marshmallows, and marshmallow
(29:37):
fluff during this experiment, but I was limited by the
number of instant read thermometers that I own. With the
lab thermometers, more toppings could be included. Finally, the department
also has thermal imaging cameras that can be plugged into
a smartphone, so it would be interesting to see what
the cups look like using those. Mostly, the thermal imaging
camera lab is one of my favorites, so I want
(29:58):
more reasons to use the cameras and then write attached
attached our graph plots UH, which are excellent and do
show right like I mean, I believe is a statistically
significant gap in the temperature between right no marshmallow and
marshmallow cups of hot chocolate UM in both experiments. She continues,
(30:21):
as always, thanks for the great podcast. This was a
lot of fun for me to do, and the rest
of the department was also entertained, so thank you for
inspiring this experiment. UM Best Megan ps. I wrote this
email while listening to the Christmas ham episode and have
a couple of comments at one. If you're looking for
ham recipes to try, my favorite ham recipe comes from
Julia Child. The ham braised in madeira and a mushroom
(30:45):
and cream sauce. She recommends to go with it. It's
not specifically a Christmas recipe, but it's so good. Um two.
I was delighted to hear you read my original message
and am now even more excited to share my results. Oh,
I mean the pleasure and honor is ours is Oh
my heck? Is this the coolest? Is so good? There
(31:09):
are graphs every everyone there, listeners, there are graphs involved.
There's THIRDO imaging equipment mentioned. It was a holiday party experiment.
People got in. People got into it right like people. Yeah,
like they had like they had like ideas and opinions
and like the future like future work where the improvements
(31:33):
could be made, which I hope you're right in again,
I I all, I also deeply want to see these
thermal images. Yes, yes, I agreed. I love it and
I love how many people were like, you know, we
need to take an account the sipping or like the
sitting of the marshmallow foam on top, like really well
(31:56):
falling out work. This is good science. This is the amazing,
the best science I've I'm so happy we kept like
kind of breaking up during it because we're just thrilled.
If there if there's I mean, I mean, I mean
(32:17):
and super producer Andrew was an absolute professional. I'm sure
that he made us sound just fine but like but
we had to stop and giggle in delight a number
of times while reading through this. So yes, it's excellent. Um,
please like follow up. Thank you for taking the time
to do this and write this. I love that we,
in our own small podcasting way could inspire an experiment
(32:40):
with this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and just to you're
right all right once again? You listeners are the coolest.
Are genuinely yes, yes, so thank you, thank you, Thank
you so much to Megan for sending this in. If
you would like to write to us, you can. Our
email is hello at saber pod dot com. We are
(33:01):
also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook at sabre pod and we do hope to
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For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
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(33:22):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Rees and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about Lotus Route. Yes, and
I was so excited about it. I put an exclamation
point after our opening line, which I shouldn't have to
write in here, but I still do, because who knows
what could happen if I don't. It's to be fair.
(00:29):
You do a different opening line for stuff Mom never
told you, and you do record that more often, or
you say it more often than you say this one.
Your brain can get jumbled with those kinds of things,
for sure. We've talked about that before, Lauren. Were the
things you say, like in every episode, like the outro
for you or the intro for me. Your brain can
if you think about it too hard, Oh yeah, yeah,
(00:51):
grinds to a halt. Yeah no, I I eat y'all.
And Andie can attest to this. Literally, every time I
do that outro, it is not written down and it
hasn't shanged aged. And I don't know two or three
d episodes now, um, but for sure, uh, I have
to close my eyes in order to concentrate hard enough
to say it every time, and we we get through it.
(01:17):
You know, we have to have these little tricks, but
we get through it every time. Yeah, with the help
of our superproducers for sure. Absolutely. Yes. But as we
record this, Lunar New Year is coming up this Sunday,
January twenty at the beginning of it. Yes, and we
thought the lotus root would be a good topic. Yeah. Yeah,
(01:41):
because it is incorporated in um a number of dishes
from a number of culinary traditions of into lunar New
Year's celebrations. Yes. And I know I've talked about this before. Uh.
I have very much enjoyed celebrating lunar New Year in
the past with a group of friends or we go
(02:01):
to dim Sum and do it um. The pandemic kind
of put a stop to that for a while. So
I I knew I had had lotus root, but I
don't think when I saw pictures of it, I was like,
oh that, I don't think that's what I was thinking of.
When I thought, okay, yeah, I realized that what I
(02:24):
had thought was a filling of lotus root in various
pastries that I've had, like moon cakes and stuff that
is actually lotus seed. Um. But yeah, but I've definitely
had like like slices fried and stuff before. It's it's
it's I like a root. It's tasty. I also like
a root. It is tasty and it's cool looking honestly,
(02:44):
all right, yeah, um oh, I did a total side note,
like there was no way for me to work this
into the actual outline, but um but I found it
so fascinating, um that I decided to include this as
a like cultural like us note. I found this whole
paper about the environmental sustainability of growing conditions of lotus
(03:10):
plants with different aquatic creatures like fish versus shrimp, and
like different stuff like that. And now I want to
build an aquarium that incorporates lotus so much I think
you should. I don't know why you're acting like this
is a thing you shouldn't be doing. The expense is
(03:33):
the reason why I'm acting like I shouldn't do it. Um,
But like I have this number of things on the
list ahead of second aquarium that are a little bit
more pressing. Um. But well, it's good to have goals.
You're right, I'm going to root for you for this
(03:56):
lotus root for you. Um Hey, that's cool. I love
when we find these very specific papers. It just brings
joy to my heart. So good, especially when they talk
about srimp. Yeah, yes, yes always. You can see our
Lunar New Year episode for more. We've also done a
(04:17):
lot of foods related to Lunar New Year as episodes,
so yeah, and various other rhizome related episodes. Of Ginger
is the one that I'm coming up with the off
the top of my head. Um. But now I'm like,
did we do Ginger? I think we did? We did great? Good? Yes,
(04:41):
someone can correct me that. I'm pretty sure we did. Yes. Well,
I guess that brings us to right question. It does
Lotus root? What is it? Well, Lotus root is the edible,
bold structure of the lotus plant, so so botanically. Um,
(05:05):
it's a storage space for starches and other nutrients that
the plant needs to to grow and to flour, and
that's why humans like eating it too. Um. It's relatively
mild in flavor, but but the texture is sort of
creamy and crunchy at the same time, like like crisp,
but in a in a tender way. Um. It can
be cooked up in any number of ways and used
(05:26):
in savory or sweet dishes. Um. It's often used as
like a tasty garnish, especially for special occasion dishes, partially
because in cross section it's got this really pretty, almost
um lacy sort of look. Because because the root is
shot through long ways with a series of holes. Yeah. Um,
it's like a it's like a more decorative hiccama uh
(05:49):
or or like a like a potato that's that's standing
up for itself a little bit more. Yeah yeah, uh
it's um it is. It's like proof that beauty isn't
always skin deep. Like sometimes it's got roots that go
all the way down again. So true, so beautiful. You
(06:09):
never know what's going on with somebody, you know, you
never know what's going on with your root into it
until you cut it cross wise and see what kind
of pretty pattern it has. All right, Well that metaphor
(06:29):
has thoroughly escaped us. Um. Alright, so so yes, so um.
Edible Lotus roots are not true roots. Um. They are
the starchy rhizome of plants in the genus n Lumbo nlumbo.
Sure one of those. Uh. There are only two species
in this genus, um and Ludia, or the American lotus
(06:49):
and an Nusifera or the Indian lotus um. But there
are a bunch of cultivars and hybrids. These are These
are aquatic plants that grow in relatively still fresh water
ponds streams. Delta's stuff like that. They grow their true
roots and their rhizomes down into the soil of the
pond bed and then sprout these long stems up to
(07:10):
the surface of the water. Um. The leaves will grow
add or above the surface, and then they produce these
really pretty flowers in shades of white and pink and
yellow that look a little bit like water lilies. Yeah. Um.
The flowers have a have a broad, flat structure at
their center that will develop into and honestly nightmarish seed
(07:32):
pod um like like, these seed pods are like one
of the images that's used in demonstrating um typophobia, the
fear of grouped holes. You know. Yeah, like if like
if you think of what you think of when you
think of that, you're probably thinking of a lotus seed head.
Oh whoam Yeah, so that's cool. Um. I love how
(07:58):
we went from like it's this beautiful thing to terrifying
holes you can fall in through now yeah. Uh, you know,
the roots of beauty can also be terrifying. Yeah, as
we all learn from glad reel Um. Sure, okay, all right.
(08:22):
All the parts of the plant are edible um and
are used in various cuisines around the world. The seeds
can be ground into a paste and used to make
beverages or in pastries like again moon cakes, or in
other desserts. The stems are used as a vegetable, the
leaves as wrappers for um, for steaming rice and other stuff.
The flowers are mostly ornamental but can be used to
(08:44):
make tea um and different varietals are grown for different purposes.
But those starchy rhizomes are arguably the meat of the plant. Uh.
They're a fall to winter crop and they grow in
these in these clusters that look a little bit like um,
like fat links of sausage um under their kind of
(09:04):
tannish skin. They're they're creamy to crisp, white in color
and have yeah, these sort of irregular rings of roundish
holes shot through the blank wise. They're prepared by by
peeling and then slicing crosswise to reveal that lacey pattern
of the holes, and then a boiled or steamed or
stir fried or deep fried or braised, pickled or preserved
(09:26):
in syrup. You can often find lotus root sold um
already peeled and sliced, canned or frozen or fresh um.
By fresh, I mean it'll be like badge in a
solution of salt water or maybe mild vinegar to preserve
the color and the flavor is mild a little bit
as sweet, tangy, creamy. Yeah. Uh. The slices are used
(09:47):
as a as a crunchy, tender vegetable in stir fries
and soups. They can be deep fried to make a
crunchy or crisp snack. In some preparation, the holes of
the roots might be stuffed with other things like a
like a mixture of horseradish and miso um or maybe
with with sweetened sticky rice, and then the slices might
be like battered and fried or or cooked up in
(10:10):
a syrup. In terms of the sticky rice, one, I've
never had that that way, and I want it right
now immediately. Uh. It can also be the root can
also be processed into a powder and then used in
like puddings or jellies or other dishes like that. Mm hmmm,
a lot of uses. Yeah, oh yeah, well, what about
(10:34):
the nutrition by themselves. Loves fruits are pretty good for you.
Blow and sugar and fat, a little bit of protein
and fiber, a good spread of micronutrients. They are a
little bit on the starchy end, so they will help
fill you up, but to keep you going param with
a protein and some fat and you know, all all
bets are off by the time you've stuffed them with
glutinous rice and drizzled them with a whole bunch of syrup.
(10:55):
Like that's a that's a different situation, but a delicious Yes. Yes,
we do have some numbers for you. Okay, so I
couldn't find too much, but China Daily reported that five
hundred thousand to seven hundred thousand hectares are growing lotus
(11:16):
root across China, largely concentrated in Hubei Province, specifically Wuhan,
which is where I lived for a couple of months.
Cool uh And just for some context there, like a
productive hector of of lotus farmland might produce some twenty
five metric tons of lotus rout a year, so multiply
(11:36):
that by five hundred to seven hundred thousand, and that's
that's like a bunch yeah, yeah, it's a bunch, and
that's just in China. Speaking of China, research has found
at least a three hundred and ten varietals of rhizome
lotus alone being grown there. Yeah. Uh and um, all right,
(12:00):
duck fact of the episode. Uh, there's almost two point
five million dollars worth of damage done to lotus crops
by ducks every year in Japan. Um. It is difficult
to research and prevent because this this, this duck damage
mostly occurs at night, those ducks. I it is. Look,
(12:25):
it's a serious economic and agricultural problem. And yes, I
mostly included this fact because I wanted to say the
words duck damage. It was pretty good. Yeah, pretty fun.
Hard too hard to not do that when you have
the opportunity, I understand. Um. I couldn't find any specific numbers,
but I did see several sources reporting that the lotus
(12:47):
market is growing, um and some of the some of
the numbers suggested quite rapidly, but a lot of that
was behind pay walls, and I couldn't sure. Yeah, I
couldn't verify it for sure, but I would be sense
to me. Yeah, as as a more culinary cultural practices
spread mm hmmm. Uh, Well, we do have some history
(13:11):
for you, Oh we do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and
we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. UM And okay,
so again, there are two species of lotus, one native
(13:33):
to North and Central America and the other to Asia.
Native Americans have also traditionally used the plant as a
food source, but today we are mostly talking about the
Asian native varieties. Yes, and also once again, unfortunately couldn't
find too many resources that I trusted about this UM
(13:55):
And I always listeners, count on you because you're all amazing,
and we answer our call if you have any UM.
But yeah, just to just to throw that out there.
And then also there were a lot of side quests
that happened, and some of these were like, oh, okay,
so this is a separate this is a whole separate
thing and not really what Yeah. Yeah, I think that
(14:17):
they're going to need to be other episodes about other
parts of the lotus and their history and uses. Yes, okay,
but for today what we have when it comes to
the origins UM. Some historians specifically cite India UM Australia,
New Guinea and some of the Middle East is where
it might have rid the lotus route might have originated. UM.
(14:40):
I couldn't quite nail down specifics on the date, but
thousands and thousands of years seems to be the consensus.
Thousand thousands of years ago UM. Some numbers claimed it
has been cultivated for at least three thousand years in
Asia specifically, for a long time, folks in Asia and
perhaps specifically China have used it medicinally or even aesthetically.
(15:03):
I saw a lot of things about that, um, and
it was viewed as a cooling food, something you might
eat to cool you down. Yes, and the lotus route
has a long history of being prized in China, and
for some it's or the lotus plant in general, uh
symbolized purity, enlightenment, fertility, rebirth, and abundance. And a part
(15:26):
of this is because how the flower would emerge from
the swamp like muddy swamp. I read in a lot
of places with beautiful white petals. Yeah, yeah, that the
flowers are really significant in artistic and religious symbolism. You've
probably seen any number of examples of what's called a
lotus throne in art like a sort of pedestal upon
(15:48):
which a revered figure stands. Yes, and it is a
special symbol of Buddhism in China. The lotus itself is
this beloved thing that is used represent the Goddess of Mercy,
which different podcasts but has a many many interpretations and personas.
But in Sanskrit their name translates to born of the
(16:12):
lotus um, and so vendors often self folded lotus buds
outside of temples dedicated to the Goddess of Mercy for
visitors to leave them as offerings, and in many depictions
her she is standing or sitting on a lotus flower.
Mm hmmm. One source reports that as far back as
(16:32):
six nine, Buddhist monks of the Big Stone Temple of
Baosha Mountain started cultivating lotus um. It's also important in
Hinduism and was revered in ancient Egypt too. But as always,
we would love for listeners to write in and confirm,
correct or add anything into this. Absolutely. Oh yes. When
(16:55):
we're talking about these cultural things, it's always kind of
like we need your we need the personal experience knowledge, yes, yes, yes,
sus yes, So no one is exactly sure how far
back Lunar New Year goes, but most estimates put it
around three thousand, five hundred years ago, and given that
Lotus was available around Dish that time, that it was
(17:18):
prized that the names uh and symbolism had a lot
going on when it came to what people wanted in
the New Year. We talked about that in our Lunar
New Year episode as a lot of times there's kind
of pun involved or something. Yes, it's yes, um. And
on top of that, the leaves themselves of the Lotus
were so handy in wrapping other popular items that was
(17:40):
something I totally forgot about. It is so true, Um,
including sticky rice and a sort of opening of the
treasure type. Dish says to reason that the Lotus has
been involved almost since the beginning of Lunar New Year's celebrations.
To me, Um and I saw it a couple of places,
but I couldn't. I didn't get the like Horror wanted. Yeah, sure, sure,
(18:03):
but it's see I mean, like the ven diagram seems
like it lines up? It does it does? Um. Jumping
way ahead. In two poet Alfred Tennyson published a collection
of poems that included one titled the lotus eaters um
And this was inspired by Greek myth mentioned in the
(18:24):
Odyssey and in it um Odysseus came across this island
where everyone eats lotus roots. People who ate the route
became blissfully ignorant or forgetful. They refused to leave and
had to be dragged back to the boat chain to
the boat two to be convinced um. And this went
(18:45):
on to inspire the r M song. Lotus was the
name of a White Lotus episode which includes a recitation
of part of the poem. And I'm a huge I
love talking about tropes. Laura knows a lot of times
in our pre episode discussions, I'm like, God, this trope,
We've got to outpack it. Um. There's one called lotus
(19:06):
eater machine, which is simply that trope of a villain
convincing you of a of vision or dream or something
is reality when it's not reality. Yeah. And uh, and
and the the the hero being stuck in this dream
world and not wanting or not being able to get out. Yes.
(19:26):
And there are a lot of theories breaking a part
of this whole, this whole ancient Greek myth that it
probably wasn't lotus root they were writing about? Um? But yeah, yeah,
yes uh. In a night book, American journalist Emily Han
wrote that lotus was more of a thing of poetry
(19:48):
then a thing of taste in the East. However, historians
argue that eating lotus froot has less to do with
poetry in China but more out of a necessar city
and a desire to make use of everything possible. So
basically this person was writing like, Oh, it's just sort
of a pretty thing. It's a symbol, right, But that
(20:13):
did not match with the reality of what was going on. Yeah,
it should be both? Why not both? Both? Why not? Um? Uh? Recently,
because because they grow in the soil of waterways, there's
been a bunch of research into both possible contamination of
(20:33):
lotus roots with with heavy metal pollution and into using
lotus plants to help clear waterways of pollution. Like this,
so really fascinating on both ends. That is fascinating. Um.
And then I just wanted to end here. There's an amazing,
beautifully written piece on Oxford, American written by SNI and
(20:58):
I hope I'm not butchering that scene in a chin
about the lotus and her memories of the lotus highly recommended. Um,
it's just really beautiful. Here's a sample. As a kid,
my absolute favorite thing to do was to walk around
Westlake in my rain boots during a summer storm, stepping
into every puddle in my path. When I finally grew
(21:18):
exhausted from all that splashing, I would stand still, holding
my breath to watch water roll off the lotus leaves.
Rain would fall into the glossy leaves and form individual
drops that were so around, so full, so perfect. They
would then roll all around the leaf as if they
were teasing the other droplets, getting bigger and rounder on
their way, eventually falling to the leaf's center, where all
(21:39):
the droplets beaded together. When the bead got large and
heavy enough, the wind would inevitably make the leave tremble,
catapulting it into the pond. It made the most wonderfully
playful sound. I later learned that lotus leaves stay dry
because of their super hydrophobic surfaces. The nano structure of
the leaves surface is woven tightly together with micro bumps
(21:59):
all long its edges. This means lotus sleeves are not
only water repellent, but they are also self cleaning. As
water droplets roll around the leaf, they attract small particles
of dirt. Because lotus sleeves clean themselves, they also make
the perfect wrappers for our regional cuisine. Long long before
the invention of plastic wraps, many dim sum and dessert
dishes were traditionally wrapped and dried lotus leaves. I love that.
(22:25):
That is so lovely, like the painting of the picture,
the setting of the scene, and then like the sound
I can imagine that, I can hear it, and then
I love the kind of that's totally our jam word
and the perfect yes and used for all these dishes.
And that's just another example of like, you know, how
(22:46):
food can transport you and these celebrations can transport you.
But also I hadn't thought about that. I wish I had,
But like the lotus sleeves as a wrapping. Yeah, when
we finally dive into our dim Sum Mini series expedition,
(23:07):
I uh fugue state. Yeah, it's it's going to be.
We're definitely gonna have to talk more about all of that. Yes, Oh,
I look forward to it, even though I'm already preemptively
overwhelmed by it, But look forward to it. Yes, yes,
so well, I think that's what we have to say
(23:28):
about Lotus Root for now it is again, we would
love to hear from y'all and uh and we do
have some listener mail prepared for you, and we will
get into that as soon as we get back from
one more quick break for a word from our sponsors.
(23:48):
We're back than yes, thank you, and we're back fireworks. Oh.
I was going to do the blank ruts, but I
feel like I've done a lot of the spiral motion
lately in the listener email jingle. I put some thought
(24:11):
into this. I promise not a lot, but I do
put some thought into it. Uh. So we have one
epically amazing listener email for you today. It's kind of long,
so we're just doing one. Um, but it is so good.
(24:32):
I'm so excited about it. Um So, if you remember
Megan listener, Megan wrote in about being Nerd sniped about
this question of whether or not marshmallows and their thermo
quality make a hot chocolate cool down faster, keep it
(24:55):
warmer for longer, longer, and had said that they were
going to take this question to Uh. There were a
holiday party, yes, and we begged shamelessly. Uh to please
please follow up if you do it, and Megan did.
(25:16):
Megan did this, followed up with an amazing thing. Laura
and I are going to split this because it's amazing. Yes, yes,
all right, Megan wrote, I have results. Since I'm geeking
out about this anyway, here's a fake laboraport for you
(25:38):
with my findings. Motivation. Determine how the addition of marshmallows
affects the temperature of a cup of hot chocolate. The
marshmallows on top of the liquid act as an insulator,
preventing heat being transferred from the liquid to the air
around it, but they also melt, which is a phase
change that requires energy to be added to the marshmallow
from the liquid, which would cool the liquid down own.
(26:00):
This experiment will determine which of these factors contribute most
to the final temperature. Procedure. Heat water in a large
urn and dispense into identical cups, so all cups of
hot chocolate will be made with the same temperature of water.
Bonus party attendees also get a source of water for
their own warm beverages. Follow instructions on the hot chocolate mix.
(26:23):
Add recommended amount of mixed two cups of hot water,
stir until fully dissolved. Add marshmallows to one cup. I
use three large ones. Measure temperatures that both comes at
regular ish intervals without mixing or otherwise disturbing the liquids.
I used my instant read thermometers from home, but a
colleague of mine shout out to Adam pointed out that
(26:45):
there are fancy thermal probes for the lab courses that
would read the tempts and make a plot automatically. So
we set up another two cups of hot chocolate using
that thermometer, following steps one through three, multiple trials, Okay,
results and discussion. Marshmallows keep hot chocolate warmer than no marshmallows.
(27:07):
Those setups show the same behavior. We're both cups with
and without marshmallows cool, but the cup with marshmallows is
consistently one to two degrees celsius or two to three
degrees fahrenheit warmer than the cup without marshmallows. See plots
top as data taken with instant wreath thermometers. Bottoms data
from the lab thermometer red equals marshmallow blue eagules no
(27:30):
marshmallows for both plots. Noticed that the time scales are different,
with the top plot going for ninety minutes while the
bottom only last thirty minutes. As I realized while discussing
the experiment with the student, the energy needed to melt
the marshmallows will be very small due to their very
small mass, so it will not remove enough energy from
the hot chocolate to counteract the heat retained by their
(27:52):
insulating effect. Okay, she continues, Um, there are a few
caveats to the six speariment. First, I didn't weigh the
amount of hot chocolate powder in each cup, so that
might have made some cups more or less chocolate, though
I don't believe this would have a big effect on
the outcome. A future, more precise trial could be done
(28:12):
to eliminate this issue. Second, as you can see in
the plots, uh, the cups didn't start exactly the same temperature,
though the difference is only about point five degrees celsius.
I suspect this is because of the heat lost during
the time between making the first and second cups of
hot chocolate. This amount of time could be reduced by
reversing the order of making the hot chocolate up, put
(28:32):
the powder in the cup first and then add the
hot water, and having multiple people stir the cups so
it happens at the same time rather than one after
the other. Finally, as mentioned in the procedure section um,
the cups were not mixed after the initial preparation, which
is not a good model of how people drink hot chocolate,
and left the melted marshmallow foam sitting on top of
(28:54):
the liquid, which may have insulated the hot chocolate longer
than would be typical. Future your work, the first step
to expand on these results would be to actually weigh
the hot chocolate mix and each cup to ensure each
cup has the same amount, and to add the water
after so that the hot chocolate is prepared and as
close to the same amount of time as possible to
reduce the difference in initial temperature. Next, the cups could
(29:16):
be stirred or otherwise mixed after the initial preparation to
simulate how a cup of liquid is mixed while someone
is taking a sip of it. We could also remove
a sip's worth of liquid each time this is done
to make the experiment even more realistic. Third, I'm interested
in how other types of marshmallows and toppings affect the temperature.
I wanted to try whipped cream, mini marshmallows, and marshmallow
(29:37):
fluff during this experiment, but I was limited by the
number of instant read thermometers that I own. With the
lab thermometers, more toppings could be included. Finally, the department
also has thermal imaging cameras that can be plugged into
a smartphone, so it would be interesting to see what
the cups look like using those. Mostly, the thermal imaging
camera lab is one of my favorites, so I want
(29:58):
more reasons to use the cameras and then write attached
attached our graph plots UH, which are excellent and do
show right like I mean, I believe is a statistically
significant gap in the temperature between right no marshmallow and
marshmallow cups of hot chocolate UM in both experiments. She continues,
(30:21):
as always, thanks for the great podcast. This was a
lot of fun for me to do, and the rest
of the department was also entertained, so thank you for
inspiring this experiment. UM Best Megan ps. I wrote this
email while listening to the Christmas ham episode and have
a couple of comments at one. If you're looking for
ham recipes to try, my favorite ham recipe comes from
Julia Child. The ham braised in madeira and a mushroom
(30:45):
and cream sauce. She recommends to go with it. It's
not specifically a Christmas recipe, but it's so good. Um two.
I was delighted to hear you read my original message
and am now even more excited to share my results. Oh,
I mean the pleasure and honor is ours is Oh
my heck? Is this the coolest? Is so good? There
(31:09):
are graphs every everyone there, listeners, there are graphs involved.
There's THIRDO imaging equipment mentioned. It was a holiday party experiment.
People got in. People got into it right like people. Yeah,
like they had like they had like ideas and opinions
and like the future like future work where the improvements
(31:33):
could be made, which I hope you're right in again,
I I all, I also deeply want to see these
thermal images. Yes, yes, I agreed. I love it and
I love how many people were like, you know, we
need to take an account the sipping or like the
sitting of the marshmallow foam on top, like really well
(31:56):
falling out work. This is good science. This is the amazing,
the best science I've I'm so happy we kept like
kind of breaking up during it because we're just thrilled.
If there if there's I mean, I mean, I mean
(32:17):
and super producer Andrew was an absolute professional. I'm sure
that he made us sound just fine but like but
we had to stop and giggle in delight a number
of times while reading through this. So yes, it's excellent. Um,
please like follow up. Thank you for taking the time
to do this and write this. I love that we,
in our own small podcasting way could inspire an experiment
(32:40):
with this. Yes, yes, yes, yes, and just to you're
right all right once again? You listeners are the coolest.
Are genuinely yes, yes, so thank you, thank you, Thank
you so much to Megan for sending this in. If
you would like to write to us, you can. Our
email is hello at saber pod dot com. We are
(33:01):
also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram,
and Facebook at sabre pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Saber is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts my heart Radio, you can visit the
I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our superproducers
Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
(33:22):
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
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