The Matzah Episode Is Squared Away

This unleavened, often crunchy flatbread is consumed as a symbol – and as a tasty snack. Anney and Lauren dig into the culture and history of matzah.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we have an
episode for you about Mazza. Oh yes, and Lauren, let
me tell you I had a field day spelling. I
was so confused. Well, I was like, oh, this is
safe things. Oh buddy, Yeah, well it's not. I mean,

(00:31):
it's not an English word, so there are multiple ways
to romanize the spelling. So yeah, well, you know, I
learned something valuable. I learned something, but I will tell
you it calls me quite a quite a bit of
panic at the outset. Okay, yes, that's that's fair. That's

(00:54):
that's fair. I feel like quite a bit of panic
is at the outset. Is is where I start a
lot of our outlines. Also fair? Yeah, so so fair? Yeah, yes, yes, yes, uh.
And this one is because we are approaching passover. Yeah.
Just talked about how I have no idea what data is, right, Yeah,

(01:17):
I right. I thought it was March earlier. Today it's not.
It's not. As we're recording this, it is April fourth
of twenty twenty three, and tomorrow April fifth will be
the first night of Passover. So yes, if you're listening
to this the day it comes out. Um, I don't know.

(01:40):
I don't know. Who knows. The future is unknowable. This
is true. This is true. It's kind of like time
traveling in a strange way, this podcasting. Yes, yolutely. Well.
I I don't think I've ever had any mazza really,

(02:05):
but that feels almost impossible to me. But if I have,
it did not lodge my register. Yeah. No, I mean
to go to a passover Sader once. If you were
participating in the passover Sader, you one thousand percent eight mazza.
That's what I must I feel like I must have.

(02:25):
But I remember my clearest memory, speaking of like anxiety,
My clearest memory of being there was like I didn't
want to offend anybody, so I was being very careful
and what I participated in, and I was like checking
with all the people around me and anyway, It's possible
that I didn't eat it because I was too scared too,

(02:46):
but I'm sure it was there, and Moti soup sounds
like it would be right up my alley and I
can't believe I haven't had it. Oh really, oh my goodness.
Yeah no, Um, well, Okay. First of all, I'm a
bad friend for never bringing you matsa ball soup when
I've made it. Uh yeah, lord, terrible, Yeah, because that

(03:09):
is my very favorite, like like like like chicken noodle
soup is okay, but mats of ball soup is definitely
my preferred. Um uh uh chicken soup. Um yeah yeah yeah.
Matza balls are terrific. They're really good. They're so easy
to make. I always get intimidated because I'm like, what

(03:30):
if they're too dense? They're fine. Um, it's just fine.
It's not that hard. Um. But oh okay, all right,
So we have a number of things to work on. Yes,
we do. We do. I feel like we should have
like a like like a savor Passover sadr at some point.
I think that would be really fun and you would
be very supportive and make sure I wasn't too afraid

(03:51):
to try to Oh yeah, yeah, no, it's it's not
it's not scary, and I mean, like, I promise you're
not going to offend me. Uh it's half half my
family is Jewish. They are very reform they I did
not I'm culturally Jewish Jewish. I'm not religiously Jewish. Um.
But yeah, so like you're Half the time when I'm
at a sad people are like, dude, donate that yet,

(04:14):
And I'm like, oh heck, okay, cool, Yeah, I got fine. Yeah,
but I mean, yeah, it's it's just it's yeah, it is.
It is supposed to be a holiday where where you
are just celebrating being there. So yeah, I think I mean, honestly, one,
I would love to celebrate it with you as a
safer Plus I love hanging out with you. But I

(04:38):
think the thing I'm it was a good friend of
mine and her family, and I think it was more
on me and less on them. They weren't making me uncomfortable.
I was just like you were just like I'm wrong. Yeah,
that's more of a me thing and less thing. Yeah. Well, um,
we have done a lot of episodes that are kind

(04:59):
of tan gentially related. Horse Faddish came up in a
lot of research I was doing. Sure, yeah is yeah, yeah,
we we did. We did an episode on Unlatta's for
other Jewish food. Um. I suppose we probably talked about
um in our donut episode, which yeah is another is

(05:20):
another one, but um yeah, yeah it is. It is time.
It is time for the Matza episode. This is not
a matzo ball soup episode by the way. Yeah, Lauren
had to let me know because I don't know. I
put myself down. Yeah, I was like, I was like, Annie,
get these mots of ball notes out our out of
our outline, and not today. I respect you, not today,

(05:47):
not to day d But I guess that does bring
us to today's question. It does. Mozza. What is it? Well,
Matsa is a type of unleavened flatbread that these days
is most commonly industrially produced as a big, dry, crunchy,
crispy cracker made with just wheat, flour and water and

(06:11):
sometimes other ingredients and more on that in a second.
It can also be made as a soft, fresh flatbread,
sort of similar to a peda, also unlevened. That unlevened
is kind of the important part here. It is perhaps
most famously eaten ceremonially as part of the Passover Sadyr,
which is a holiday dinner that's part of Jewish and

(06:33):
some related traditions. For that it's made plain, but outside
of that, you know, it can be eaten however you
eat crackers or flatbreads, and might be made with any
number of additional ingredients like salt, olive oil, eggs, fruit juice,
alternate grains and seasonings like onion or garlic, powder or

(06:56):
poppy seeds, rosemary, ground pepper, basil, dried tomato. I don't
know whatever you want in there. Um. The sort of
standard size and shape these days is a paperboard to cardboard,
thin and in a square, maybe like six by six
or there about. Um. Though the soft varieties are usually
made round dish, and it's also sold in narrower strips

(07:19):
sometimes for the non ceremonial purposes. It's like a big
cracker with a varying amount of seasoning. Um. I mentioned
paperboard a second ago. It's it is. It is a
purposefully plain and simple food for symbolic purposes, and can
also be jazzed up in any number of ways, Like

(07:40):
I'm actually gonna stick with paperboard, but not in a
bad way. Um. Matsas like a like a canvas that
you can paint with with all kinds of meaning and flavorings. Lovely, yeah,
lovely once again. But okay, let's let's talk just a
little bit about mass Over. This is a seven day

(08:02):
holiday or festival that celebrates the Jewish people escaping enslavement
by the Egyptians. It's the the exodus part in Moss's story,
you know, one of the like big things in Abrahamic religions.
That's for a different podcast. Um. The pertinent part for
us today is the story goes that when the Jewish

(08:23):
people left Egypt, they did so, oh with a quickness,
like they were fleeing, such that they didn't even have
time to let bread that they were making on their
way rise. They just mixed flour and water and baked
it right in the sun. And so out of this
story came the tradition of remembering that flight by eating

(08:47):
a simple flatbread mazzo. So so it is eaten as
part of this ceremonial Sader dinner, which involves a bunch
of other symbolic foods as well, which is why horseradish
came up for ye and then and then those who
observe pass over mazza will also replace leavened breads for

(09:08):
the whole week. Okay, and man Jewish Jewish dietary rules
can get really complicated because they are composed out of like,
I don't know, two thousand to four thousand years or
more of various thought leaders discussing and interpreting and reinterpreting

(09:33):
traditional writings for the you know, increasingly modern world. And
I am not going to pretend to be an expert
here um, just as I will not pretend to be
an expert in any Jewish cultural stuff. As I said above,
my family was real reform um. But okay, these rules
and traditions have shaped the way that mozza is produced,

(09:55):
and like literally shaped. So part of this goes into
you know, like, okay, what does leavened mean? Because all right,
so if you want to make unleavened bread, you're clearly
not going to add yeast or the baking powder. I
don't know, but but but the leavening of bread can
happen without human intervention, right Like, as we talk about

(10:17):
all the time on this show, wild yeasts live all
around us. Like you mix flour and water together, and
chances are good that eventually yeasts are going to start
working in the mix, producing leavening carbon dioxide bubbles. And
this is part of why Mazza four passover is overwhelmingly

(10:37):
commercially produced. The whole process from milling the wheat to
baking the flatbread is done under rabbinical supervision. Sometimes it's
done under supervision from the time of the harvest of
the wheat on and that's to make sure that the
process is kosher. M So, after you mix the flour

(11:05):
and water for mazza, the mazza has to be in
the oven and or possibly baked within eighteen minutes to
prevent that wild fermentation from potentially taking place. Why eighteen minutes,
I have no idea. I couldn't figure that out. No

(11:27):
one would tell me. I also understand that the oven
has to be kept at or above six hundred degrees.
I don't know. I don't know why. Also, um wheat
is the traditional grain used, although barley, spelt, rye and
oats are also technically permissible as long as they are

(11:51):
treated properly to make sure that they also do not
leaven or rise on their own. And this can get
really tricky, and that is a rabbit hole. I went
down partially because I was just like, oh, like all
like all the different all the different ways that people
have tried to come up with to be like, well,
if you're gluten intolerant and you want to practice during

(12:11):
this ceremony, then you know you don't want to do
something that's going to make you sick. That's not cool.
But how do we produce something for you within these guidelines?
It will still anyway, it's really cool. I think it's awesome.
And and again right, note that this ceremonial mazza is
more strictly produced than mazza for for other purposes, and

(12:31):
that's why you will see some boxes labeled kosher for
Passover rather than just kosher. It's two different things. Yeah, yeah,
I guess as like a bonus for this cracker type mazza.
You know, it can be made months in advance, as
it is shelf stable. Fresh style mazza must be frozen

(12:53):
until it's eaten. Um And once made, mazza can be
ground back into like bread crumbs or bots of meal,
which can be used to make things like mazza balls,
which are if you've never heard of them for some reason,
there are a type of egg bound dumpling typically served
in a chicken soup situation. You can also use matsa

(13:14):
to make um sweet or savory google which are like
a category of casseroles, or you could just use them
for dips or to serve with toppings. You can spread
them with spreads. There was a lot of a like
like peanut butter and jelly mazza sandwiches in my lunch
rooms growing up when people are reserving passover. Yeah yeah,

(13:36):
it's not really like a choice that most people would make,
like on purpose, like outside of passover. Yeah sure, but
for sure yeah uh yeah, I had a chocolate dipped
Mazza is a big thing. Wow yeah wow wow wow.
Well what about the nutrition. Oh, it's a plain wheat cracker.

(13:59):
I don't know, Um, it's it's it's wheat and water.
That got it. It'll it'll help fill you up. But
to keep you going, eat, eat, eat a vegetable probably
some fat um protein is nice. Yeah yeah, there you go.
There you go. Well, we do have some numbers for you.

(14:26):
We do. Um. As of twenty fifteen, UH Stripes, which
is one of the major producers, was making uh one
of the major American producers that they were making two
point five million pounds of mazza for every passover and
another two point five million pounds for the rest of
the year. Wow yeah uh. Apparently rival company manachevitz Um

(14:53):
made a giant mazza in twenty eleven when they opened
their new headquarters in New York. Uh. This mazza was
twenty four feet long and forty one inches wide dictated
by the width of their oven. UM. It had a
surface area of eighty two square feet, the equivalent of
three hundred and thirty six normal matza. Whoa, but it's

(15:18):
you know, like it's a mazza, Like it only weighed
twenty five pounds. That's impressive though, I know, right, I
just it's both like I thought it should weigh more
and I thought it should weigh less, if that makes sense. Sure, yeah,
uh UM. And I'm pretty sure that that bakery there
UM was a fourteen million dollars state of the art

(15:42):
rabbinically engineered bakery. And I'm pretty sure that them and
UH and Strike both revamped their systems around around that time.
At any rate, UM, another world record for you. UM.
In twenty twenty one, UM two hundred assisted living residence
in Israel helped build a record breaking matza tower of

(16:06):
mazza with chocolate spread. It was five point four meters
I oh ooh nice. Yeah wow. I had to include
this because it came up on like the first page
of my search results, and I'm not sure why okay,
and I really hope you'll let me read the product description. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what are we looking at? An inflatable matsa ball? Oh,

(16:31):
the original inflatable mats of ball. Oh no imitations accepted. Yes,
nine dollars and ninety five cents. Here is the product description.
The fun is just endless. Have a ball playing with
this inflatable matsa ball, whether in the pool, beach, or backyard.
This ball brings passover fun to a whole new level.

(16:54):
Not a sponsor, just amused. That's wonderful. You know, it's
pretty funny. The original, the original, that's like my favorite part.
Oh wow, we do have quite a bit istory for you.
Oh heck, we do. Um and we are going to

(17:15):
get into that, but first we are going to get
into a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
And we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So,
as Lauren was saying, uh, botsa. In theory, it goes

(17:38):
back to biblical times like a long time. And one
of the things I find most interesting is for thousands
of years, the tradition of passover has remained relatively unchanged.
There's been like technology and food stuffs that have shifted
it a bit, and we'll talk about those, but it's
kind of remained the same. Um And yes, a part

(17:58):
of that tradition for observant Jewish people is abstaining from
eating any leavened products for one week during Passover, and
consuming mazza is something that you eat in its place,
that is eating its place. So in Judaism, mazza, yes,
represents this unleavened bread made of flour and water that
Jewish people ate while fleeing from Egypt in these biblical times.

(18:22):
As you said, they had to leave pretty quickly, so
those are some of the few things that they were
able to pack. And then when it was baked, this
unleavened bread was just was a flat shape, hardened texture
like that, Yeah, yeah, or was it? So some historical
research indicates that these breads may have been softer than

(18:46):
we think, Like certainly they would have hardened over the
course of a day or so. But like there was
this whole thing about soft mazza traditions and whether soft
mazza can be considered kosher for Passover, and this search
was part of that so uh, right, rounder Initially, softer
mazza might be the strictly speaking, most traditional kind. But

(19:11):
I would eat y'all. Again, I am not an expert.
You merely reporting at least one opinion that I read. Um. Uh,
you know, like like well researched opinion at any rate. Um.
But yeah, the the idea of avoiding leavening during passover
is so important that, starting in the twelve hundreds, ce

(19:35):
other foods that swell during cooking in a similar manner. Um,
we're also labeled as like to be avoided during this time,
during this holiday time, and that didn't change until like
the nineteen eighties. Um. Today these foods are are considered permissible.
But right your your mileage may vary on those dietary laws.
That's do do whatever your rabbi says it's cool, that's

(19:58):
or whatever others source you go to. I would never
tell you no, no no no no no no no
no wow. Speaking of a lot of conversation and controversy.
As with many things, the Industrial Revolution paved the way
for a machine made matza, and this made it more affordable,

(20:20):
more accessible for a lot of people. Perhaps specifically, the
mazza making bread machine was introduced in eighteen thirty eight,
and this was a machine that was invented by a
Frenchman named Isaac Singer. But yeah, it wasn't without controversy.
This this kind of like commercialized man made, machine made
excuse me, machine made version of Mazza because some people

(20:42):
argued pretty strongly that Matza should only be made by hand.
And we will be talking about that more in a second.
Oh yes, oh yes. This is also around the time
that records for Matza bald soup started showing up. And
that is my only Matza Baldo Lauren other than the
original inflatable mats of ball who we have stricken them

(21:04):
from our household today like comets. Yeah, yes, that's that's
leavened products anyway, Okay, cool, here we go. Um. Meanwhile,
the the oldest Mazza factory in France um renee namen.
I haven't looked at the pronunciation of that one, and

(21:26):
I'm not gonna today. I'm tired. Um, But yeah, they
opened in eighteen seventy. A lot of these product names
I've only ever seen on packaging, I've never heard in
conversation at any rate. Yeah. Um, their their family bakery
had been going since the eighteen fifties. But right, kind
of following along with this machine U matsa machine conversation.

(21:49):
Yeah right, that that that opened in eighteen seventy. Yes, well,
speaking of that, and also a product names because this
one I knew because I think it's been featured in
so much media and pop culture. Sure, in eighteen eighty eight,

(22:09):
the first American mazza making factory was opened in Cincinnati,
Ohio by Lithuanian immigrant Dove Bear. He eventually went on
to use the name Mena Chevitskay. Yeah, I looked enough
to be sure, but I was like, I think I
know how to say this, and it's because again, I
think I've just seen it in so many things, just

(22:30):
in the zeitgeist. Yeah mmmm, And yes, he started his factory,
the b. Manachevitz Company, and he got to work on
really fine tuning a completely automatic method of producing mazza.
In eighteen eighty eight. Yes, the ads for this company
promise that quote no human hand touches these matzas. Yeah, okay,

(22:51):
So so by by nineteen o three they had at
least three machines used in the process, one for kneading
the dough, one for rolling it out, and then one
for for stretching perforating and cutting it um. And it
just occurred to me that I forgot to mention in
the what is it portion of this episode that the esum,

(23:12):
those large format matza crackers are are perforated a for
I guess cracker purposes. It helps a cracker to not
puff up and to stay in its appropriate flat shape
when you you know, poke holes in it um. But
those holes are usually aligned very um mathematically like it

(23:33):
like in a nice like in a nice grid, so
it's easy to snap off like kind of strips of
the mazza. Yes okay, okay at any rate, yes um.
This this machinery also involved a conveyor belt from moving
the matza through all the different sections through the baking,

(23:54):
but but that no human hand touches these matzas. Was
really clever advertising because it was working on not just
like like Jewish religious concepts of cleanliness, but also like
the very American consumer concept of cleanliness and modernity, because
this was a time when you know, we were coming

(24:15):
out of having a lot of like moral panic about
bread and bread products and how they retreated m h. Yeah.
And it worked at the marketing definitely helped by the
nineteen twenties Menchevitz was the largest matza producer in the world,
which equated to about one point two five million sheets

(24:37):
of mazza a day. Hoofda just seems like a lot. Yeah, yes,
Menchevits became a household name and for a lot of
people it was a timesaver to buy mozza this way U.
But also yeah, a more consistent product. You knew what
you were getting. Yeah yeah, um. Prior to this, you

(24:58):
probably would have had maza being baked by by individual
Jewish religious centers for their like just local community, right exactly.
But this brings us back to this argument, oh right,
should it be mechanized exactly because there was some strong

(25:20):
resistance from people who believed that mazas should be handmade.
That's just how it should be. It shouldn't be commercialized,
it shouldn't be mechanized. So when I read this fact,
I was like, surely this is not true, but it
seems like it is. To reassure the doubters, the company
owner of Manischevits traveled Israel and studied the teal mood

(25:43):
for thirteen years. Yeah, that seems that seems yeah, like
a thing that would happen. Well, it seems that it
did um and make no mistake, this commercial versus handmade
thing was, and it seems like still kind of is
just not as much a hot button topic. Oh wow.

(26:06):
In nineteen thirty nine, two prominent brothers in the Jewish
community came down on opposite sides. So you had Solomon Kluger,
who was a known, a well known and influential Ukrainian rabbi,
and he came out furiously against machine made mazza in
a manifesto it's a whole manifesto. However, his brother came

(26:28):
out on the other side defense of it. Oh a
house divided exactly who I but their passover to sad.
All around the globe Jewish people would weigh in on
this like. Their arguments would range wildly, like that handmade

(26:49):
matza provided jobs for those in need of them, that
machine made mazza made it affordable for those in need.
If you ate machine made mazza, then the good deed
of it is ruined that using a machine actually made
it easier to abide by the rules of making it.
Like just so many different thoughts and points view about
this is this is something I genuinely love about about

(27:14):
this culture and religion is that it encourages this kind
of discussion and dare I say, argument and right and
like makes you grapple with these with these issues. It's
cool anyway. Um. Meanwhile, uh Strites opened their factory in
the Lower East Side in nineteen sixteen. UM demand was
such that they moved to a bigger space in nineteen

(27:35):
twenty five, and space fact episode. While on his nineteen
seventy three moonwalk Apollo seventeen, astronaut Eugene Cernan called out
man oh mana Chevits, which was the company's slogan. Oh yeah,
yeah hu mana Chevits. Sold the company in nineteen ninety

(27:56):
for forty two point five million dollars UM. But yeah,
they weren't the only game in town. They were the
most successful, but they weren't the only game in town.
A bunch of other machine made Mozza businesses popped up
all over the US, and by the nineteen fifties the
product was pretty widely available across most of the country. Yes,

(28:16):
according to Time magazine, Israel's Interior Ministry conducted raids of
local restaurants in two thousand and one to ensure that
none of the bread served during passover was levens okay, yeah,
all right, all right, and yeah, moving into our more
current day, as you kind of said, Lauren Company started

(28:38):
offering a variety of flavors of mazza and gluten free
versions that aforementioned Strites factory in New York City closed
in twenty fifteen to move off of Manhattan Island. A
documentary about them came out in twenty sixteen which I
just watched the trailer four and appears to be delightful.
So yeah, it's called Strites Mazza and the American Dream.

(29:05):
Oh yeah, you're telling me about it. It It sounds super cute. Yeah. Yeah,
there's there's a pretty big dis about like Jersey water
versus New York water within the first like second and
a half of the of the trailer, which I got
a really big kick out of because and because menshevit's
produced their's in Jersey or produces anyway anyway. Yeah, and

(29:27):
one last timeline note, um in twenty twenty two, the
war in Ukraine held up about ten percent of their
most strictly supervised mazza that was bound for the US,
like twenty thousand pounds. Like they apparently send two hundred
thousand pounds a year over here under normal circumstances. Um,

(29:50):
I guess their factories begin baking around Hanakka too to
make the product up in time. Wow. Yeah, who wow.
I feel like we've covered a lot of ground, gone
over a lot of things, and there's still more to discuss.
But those are for future. That's for future, Annie, Lauren.

(30:11):
It is that's time travel, right. Who knows what that
future will hold? Um? Well, and but yeah, if if,
if y'all have anything to add any personal stories, we
would love to hear them, and we do have some
listener mail prepared for you now we do. But first

(30:32):
we have one more quick break for a word from
our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you, Spencer, Yes, thank you,
And we're back with snowy old like when you crack

(30:54):
a cracker along the lines. Oh yeah, it was also
kind of adrenaline boost. Yeah. Sometimes he's really get my
heart going, Hoofdan. Indeed, speaking of Hooft, we have a
message from Susie to Go, who sent this via Twitter.
Susie to Go wrote, Lauren, you are right to be

(31:17):
suspicious of rabbits. Ours was a ten pound French lop
named Goof, and the looks she'd give you were absolutely withering.
She definitely earned the nickname bitchy bunny. If she were
mad at you, she'd turned her back on you and
audibly visibly huff a whole body huff full of disdain.

(31:39):
If she turned back and you were still there, she
turned back around and huff some more bitch held grudges. Also,
she was beyond adorable, and I loved her, not in
spite of her attitude, but because of it. Had she
been nice and sweet, I think it'd be too expected.

(32:00):
Oh well, there's so much to love here. First, Goof
is a great name. Oh oh yeah, absolutely, ideal name
for for a rabbit. Bitchy Bunny is an excellent nick
I love this withering huffing like you're still here? Oh yeah, around.
You got to respect it at a certain point. Oh no, absolutely,

(32:21):
And yeah this is apparently rabbits are very hierarchical in
their societies, and this is part of the like like
nonverbal like language that they have to tell you that
you have messed up. Yeah, apparently it also works. If
you do this to a rabbit to let them know
that they have messed up, like, they will respond. They
will respond appropriately. So wow, that's amazing. Oh god, so funny.

(32:51):
It sounds like Goof would have been like, I'm agher up. Yeah,
but maybe maybe I wish I could see some video
over here. Been trying. That's what the rabbit I'm sure exists.
All right, all right, new new project if we're out there,
Rik wrote in and we finally got a pronunciation check.

(33:15):
It is Arik, So thank you. Okay. The mention of
cupping and talking about coffee, definitely you should check out
the cupping class that drift Away Coffee offers. My oldest
got that for me. Is a Christmas gift and it
was great. They send you everything you need a couple
days before, the coffee cups and paperwork. Then you log
into a zoom call and they walk you through it.

(33:37):
Highly enjoyable and a great way to learn more about cupping. Again,
that was drift Away next all the dil dill is
such an interesting herb and flavor. Dill seed in Swedish
or Norwegian meatballs makes a huge difference mixed into a
shrimp and orzo salad. Lookout with dill pickles. If you

(33:57):
give me a hole or spear, fine, Otherwise give me
bread and butter or sour pickles please. The Roman episode
was fun. As you mentioned, there is such a variety.
People really need to hit up an Asian market and
see what you can find. The amount is mind numbing
at times, but so many options to try. Christmas ham

(34:18):
was interesting. I smoked my own for Christmas two years ago.
Did a standard wet brine for about four days and
then smoked for several hours, light rub before putting on
the smoker. Great bark smoked well and we used the
bone for smoked navy bean soup a couple of days later.
That was worth it. The Packy one Chip challenge, I

(34:38):
haven't tried it, but I've seen it frequently in stores
around here. I think they moved it into larger production
over the past years, so I think it's easier to find.
I love hot stuff, but haven't worked up for this yet.
I had a good chuckle at the beginning of your
Lotus Root episode with the love a Root, mainly because
I have a number of Australian coworkers nuf set. I

(35:01):
think Colesla, oh Colesla. I love a good cole Sla,
but to me, most Colesla out there is barely meth
two creamy sloppy, etc. There are a few places that
do it well, and I like the way I make it.
My dressing is a mix of dukes, apple, cider, vinegar,
ground mustard, salt, pepper, some garlic powder, celery seed, and

(35:21):
a dash of cayenne. I tried to get it so
there's just a thin layer on the cabbage. I don't
want it swimming in the dressing. The mix of mayo
and vinegar is really what appeals to me. Rabbit is
such a good dish. I'll always remember the rabbit fettuccini
I had in London. We went to an amazing place
which now appears to be permanently closed rip laughing gravy,

(35:42):
and when I saw that on the menu, I had
to go for it. So good. The show brought back
some good memories in general of that trip. And then
finally he passed along a favorite chocolate chip cookie recipe,
which is and I quote from an old Penguins cookbook
that was a Sean mccaren recipe. We just love this

(36:04):
and it hits all the spots. I love it a cookie.
I'm finally going to be caught up with the podcast
this weekend, although that means I might have to re
listen to old ones again just to fill time. Keep
on ostensibly being a food show. Will you try? It's
so cool. I always love it when people binge and
we get to hear like all these notes journey yeah,

(36:24):
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and yeah. If y'all are interested
in the specific chocolate chip cookie recipe, then um, then
then write in and Annie will send it right on along.
Um yeah, because we love a good cookie recipe as well.
We always love absolutely you all share these these recipes.
And yeah, I just love so much getting all of

(36:45):
these notes and thoughts about yea our episode. So thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you so much. A lot
of this sounds so good, like the Christmas ham oh right, yeah,
the rabbit for a cheenie, oh right eight? Um yeah,
I and I love a strong specific pickle opinion. I also,

(37:06):
if I'm going to eat a pickle spear, I want
a dill pickle. I personally prefer bread and butter pickles
for my pickle rounds. Oh this is great. See I
love this too. You're gonna have you your pickle opinions.
We gotta have them ready, all right, thank you, thank you,
thank you too. Both of these listeners for writing in.

(37:27):
If you would like to write to ASA, you can.
Our email is hello at saborpod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Sabor is production of iHeartRadio. For more
podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.

(37:50):
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way