June 27, 2022 • 42 mins
These small, oily fish are an important part of the food chain – and local cuisine – wherever they live. Anney and Lauren dip into the biology and history of sardines.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm lare In Vogelbam, and today
we have an episode for you about sardines. And it
is a vast one, yes, vast and multitudinous, like a
school of sardines. Indeed. Uh, any particular reason this one
was on your mind? Uh? Well, I was. I was
(00:32):
thinking about types of topics that we hadn't done in
a second, and I was like, can we do weird seafood?
And then I was like, we're in charge of this,
we can do whatever we want. And uh. Then I
was thinking about like like fish that are good and
fresh in the summer, and I my brain was just
like sardines. Uh. And I started looking into it and
(00:55):
I was like, yeah, there's there's like a lot here,
there is, and and that's what we were discussing before
we started to record, as I thought, okay, yeah, sardines, okay,
But I didn't think there would be that much on
them search wise and at all. Really, And I was
wrong that incorrect? Oh was like proven incorrect? Oh yeah
(01:21):
we could um. As it turns out, the word sardines
covers a lot of territory, and we could talk about
specific uh types of sardines or specific areas of catching
of sardines um in a number of different episodes. Yes, Yes,
because I I tried to go down like, I know
(01:45):
they're big in Norway. Let me look into that. I
know they're big here and here and here, and I
think just the search terms weren't providing what I needed.
But also I suspect whole other episode. Yeah, but we
are going to mention one of those. I just I
just feel like there's uncovered history that I missed. Oh
I hate that. Okay, Well that's that's all right. You
(02:07):
know we can we can give an overview today and
then we can specify in later episodes. Yes, and your
listeners are great at at pointing out, pointing as in
the right direction, So we are counting on you. Um,
I don't have too many I don't have too much
experience with sardines. I don't think the first thing I thought,
because I'm a child is SpongeBob, because there's sort of
(02:29):
a running joke and SpongeBob. But I did recently purchase
some even before this, for some filling for on a
geary in my ongoing question. So I guess I can
report back. I'm very excited, very excited. Yeah, yeah, I
I also do not have a great deal of sardine experience.
(02:51):
I think mostly as a like a like a tapas
or as a kind of kind of plate um in
various like tomato based preparations. And I've always quite enjoyed
them like that. Yeah, but yeah, I oh, I need
I would like more experienced now, please. I would like
(03:13):
to go to the Mediterranean and eat a large number
of grilled sardines different different times right off to me.
I have had them fried once and they were very good.
Oh I bet no, okay, alright, yep. You can see
(03:38):
our anchovy episode for some similar information. Tuna is pretty
involved in this um and canning sure. Yeah. Also right,
other other marine fishery episodes, UM, big Big Fish Industry, UM,
(03:58):
one of our episodes. Uh, cod always great. M I
haven't shown you this more. And but as we've mentioned,
we recently moved out of our office and I found
the poster we got with the different types of fish.
Yeah that Brooks gave us from that Hawaii episode. Uh,
(04:20):
and I it's right at my feet. I'll show you
after I remember that's a good poster. It is. That's
why I was saying, I can't leave this. I don't
know where I put it in my apartment. But even
though right it's a large it's like it's like as
large as either of us. And we proceeded to bring
it like to Maui and then back to Oahu and
get back to the you know, continental United States. It
(04:42):
was a process, it was. It made it on many flights.
Not a worthwhile poster indeed, indeed, well, Um, in the meantime,
before I show you this glorious poster again, Lauren, I
guess that breaks us to our question. Mhm, sardines, what
(05:05):
are they? Well, m okay As as we've said, the
words sardine can technically refer to a number of similar fish,
depending on who's defining it. Um, But what you're generally
looking at is a small oily fish that lives in
these huge schools in the pelagic zone of the ocean,
like off the shore, but not like down in the deeps. Yeah. Um.
(05:29):
And in addition to being eaten fresh cooked, are frequently
preserved by being pickled, smoked, salt cured, and or canned. Uh.
They're small enough that they are often eaten with the
bones and skin still attached, because they're like a little
bit chewy but not inedible that way. Um. They are
fairly dense, fleshed, and kind of strong in flavor, like
a savory and earthy or what do you call it
(05:52):
oceany at that point. Umh and like fishy, yeah, which
I guess makes sense for fish, but not all fish
are fishy. Um. But yeah, they're like, um, they're like
a little pocket fish or like they're like you've crammed
an entire hamachi into like a six inch package. Um,
They're they're fun sized, make them sound so cute. I
(06:13):
was looking at pictures and I was literally talking to
my screen like, oh, you look at the little buddy,
like you know, guy, I do again. I keep an
aquarium at home. I have fish in this aquarium. Now, um,
some corridoras, which are also very cute, and so I
just I just really appreciate fish anyway. Uh uh huh. Yeah.
(06:42):
They are members of the clupeidi or herring family. Uh.
Ecologically and commercially, they are similar enough to herring and
anchovies that the three groups are often grouped together for
like reporting larger trends and in some cases there have
been disagreement over what should be called a herring versus
(07:03):
a sardine versus a pill shard, which is also intertwined here. Um,
that's above my head. I wouldn't dare at any rate. Yes,
a national laws do dictate what maybe classified as a sardine,
and the term gets applied to at least twenty recognized
species across at least five genuses. Mhm mh. Problem here
(07:31):
it certainly is uh so right. I cannot like precisely
describe what a sardine looks like because it varies, but
in general you are looking at a fish that will
grow to about five to fifteen inches long, that's about
fifteen with a fairly tiny ray type fins, that is,
spined fins, their silvery and color, often with some blue
(07:54):
or green along their backs, and U shaped like like
sleek little submarines like a long pointed ovals. Yeah. Uh
and this is a safety in numbers kind of fish
relatively low on the food chain, like they eat plankton
and other microorganisms. Um. And they are a type of
forage fish so called because I think because a number
(08:15):
of larger fish and birds and marine mammals just sort
of go up to a school and like pick off
little clumps of them, the way that a cow forage
is on grass. That's what I'm assuming, yeah, nature, or
maybe because they forage on the plankton. I'm not sure.
I should have looked it up, but I didn't. Now Here,
we are here, we are here, we are onwards at
(08:38):
any rate, I'm oversimplifying. Um, this this ecological system, Um,
it's a lot more complicated than that, and in really
cool ways. UM. Schools of sardines will spawn tens or
hundreds of thousands of eggs a year and often migrate
throughout the year, and they move in these big, beautiful,
(09:00):
shimmery masses that actually make them invisible from certain angles
because their silvery sides scatter the sun that's filtering down
from above in these little patterns that just look like
a mirage. Um. They are fairly easy to catch, though, um,
and without a lot of eyecatch in most situations, because
you're just kind of like find a shoal and then
(09:20):
scoop some up with like an appropriately sized net, and
then you have a bunch of sardines. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean I love the mirage aspect that's really cool,
but then they like, yeah, sardines straight move and they
(09:42):
are eaten fresh in places where they're caught, grilled or
steamed or baked into pies or however people consume fish
because they're small, they are often like a snack or
appetizer or or bar food sort of deal, like I
was saying, yeah um. They're also quite often preserved right
as oaked, salt, cured, pickled, and or packed in oil
(10:03):
or water, or tomato sauce and canned, which brings out
a sort of chewy or like toothsome quality in the
flesh and like concentrates the flavor a little bit. They
are frequently prepared skin on and bones in which adds
texture and often gives you this like this like burst
of flavor when you bite through the skin. Oh it's
so nice, and I'm I'm so mad that I'm not
(10:25):
on a trip to a fishing coast right now, right
gosh ha um. They are also processed in a number
of other ways, dried or meld and flaked or pressed
for oil. Sardine meal is also used as an animal feed,
and the oil is also used in industrial applications like
(10:45):
like paint and surfacing like linoleum mm hmm, yeah, so interesting.
Well what about the nutrition, Yeah, speaking not about linolium anymore.
Um Uh. It depends on how you prepare them, of course,
but sardines are high in protein and low in carbs,
with some good fats and a bunch of vitamins and minerals.
(11:07):
The bones and skin are particular boosters here. Uh. If
you're getting them canned, I'd say look for types that
are packed in water or tomato instead of in oil,
because oil is going to really condense your calorie content there.
But yeah, pretty good for you. And because they are
low on the food chain, they are lower in mercury
than bigger fish, though they are still susceptible to other
(11:29):
oceanic toxins like microplastics and pesticides. So I don't know. Yes,
do your research. Yeah, if it had died, don't. It's
very complicated, it is. Well, okay, we do have some
numbers for you. We do as often. The larger forage
(11:54):
species group of herring and anchovies and sardines made up
over eight percent of global marine fishing production. Um. That
was about fifteen point three million tons of fish, and
that's like way down from what it's been previously. Earlier
(12:14):
in the two thousands, it was as much as like
thirty of global marine fishing production. Wow, like like either way,
a really major part of the fishing industry. Just one
genus of sardines, Um Sardanella, caught in tropical and subtropical regions,
was the fourth largest contributor to global marine fishing production
(12:38):
as of Dang. Lots of sardines, Lots of sardines, low
price canned sardines from Morocco, Poland and Thailand to make
up a big part of that market. Um, but a
lot of a lot of sources I found kind of
separated out because in places like France they are viewed
as more of a luxury item. M Um. So there's that.
(13:01):
Some people collect vintage sardine cans and you can go
find places or like marketplaces and stuff. It's pretty cool.
If anyone does this, you have to write in you
do you do? Yes? Um. There's a Main Coast Sardine
History Museum in Jonesport, Maine, and I looked it up
and checked it's still open and it looks super cute.
(13:22):
It looks within the best way, like a shack on
side of the road. Um, and this is from like
a picture. It was on their website, but from one picture.
So I don't know. But if anyone's been there places, yeah, yes,
there's also a canning a canning museum in Norway that's
(13:45):
not specifically about sardines, but it has a lot to
do with sardines. So if you've been there, let us know.
Oh and here's another thing, listeners, I've got to know more. Okay.
So in some parts of the world, sardines are quite beloved. Uh.
In Lisbon, for instance, the Lisbon sardine is viewed as
the city's unofficial official fish. They are featured in art
(14:10):
and are a common souvenir for tourists. During the Festival
of St. Anthony in June, festivalgoers can sample fresh grilled sardines. Apparently,
like hundreds of people are just grilling them and you
can sample them. Um. And also apparently, the story goes
that Saint Anthony encountered trouble converting people, so he decided
(14:30):
to practice his sermons on sardines and they listened. So
Saint Anthony was like, okay, I'm good. His confidence was Listeners,
you've got to write in about this powered by the sardines.
Empowered by the sardines. I also read it's a big
(14:51):
day for weddings. Yeah, I think weddings. Um, so again,
provide more information please. June is sardine season in Portugal,
so it is the best time to find fresh shardin's there.
And yes, I desperately desperately want to dry grilled sardines
a right, one day, Lauren, One day, okay, okay, but
(15:17):
not today this day. We must talk about history, yes,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from a quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and we're back, thanky sponsor, Yes,
thank you. So normally through a whole history of the
(15:42):
fish in question, but the fish in question when it
comes to sardines, yes, could refer to a handful of things.
And that is an issue that, as we mentioned, continues
to cause problems to this day. And we're going to
get into that even more in this history bit like
like legal disputes, uh huh. And on top of that,
(16:02):
all of these types of fish that are sometimes called sardines, uh,
their history split off in a way that gave me
a headache. Um I made this a twelve part series.
But I think it's safe to say that they're old. Yes. Um.
The Herring family in general dates back, has been biologically
(16:24):
about what where they are for for about sixty million
years or so. So old ye so so yeah. Uh.
We do know ancient Romans discovered healthy populations of sardines
along the coast, and that they enjoyed them so much
they became something of a staple for a time. The
(16:46):
word sardine in this context first appeared in the fifteenth
century in English. In English, and a lot of people
think it's because of a lot of sardines came from Sardinia,
but that's never actually been yeah, mm hmm. The phrase
packed like sardines first appeared in eight And I've never
(17:08):
heard of this game, but apparently there's a game, um
called packed like sardines. I think it was first recorded
in Yeah, or to sardines. I think I something is
is digging a bell way in the back of my
like like Ohio, Pennsylvania upbringing um. But it's it's just
(17:32):
it's just a bell and the bell is marked move.
So I read it and it doesn't make sense to
me from what I read. It's kid had one person hides,
and then whoever finds the first gets next to them,
and then so on and so forth. The last kid
is the first one to hide the next time. Yes,
that's totally it, and that's why it's called sardines because yeah,
(17:54):
it's a it's a variation on hiding go seek. That's
totally it, oh man, Yeah, right, where it's clarified, right,
totally yeah. And so like, so like if you're the
first kid hiding, like it behooves you to find a
place that like a lot of people could pack into,
but it is still you know, hidden, which is like
(18:16):
a difficult a difficult ask. Okay, Okay, that's since because
otherwise because like like the point of the game is
to like is to like be hidden for as long
as possible. And you know, but if like kids start
like like sticking out in various ways, that you're gonna
get found easier. Okay, that makes sense because to me
(18:36):
it sounded like you wanted to be found as quickly
as possible. Just hide in the open. No no, no no, no, no,
opposite opposite, got it? Okay? All right, Um, over, now
that we've solved that mystery, over on the eastern coastline
of North America the sardine fishing question. The Atlantic herring
(18:58):
has long been fished by indigenous people bolls in the
area using poles and nets. After the Europeans arrived, this
eventually gave way to boats called sardine hallers and then
purse signing, and that's we've talked about that before. But
fishing with purse like nets that could also be its
own episode, so that's very condensed. But oh yeah. With
(19:18):
the invention of canning in the early eighteen hundreds, Europeans
with access to water quickly started canning fish, including the
sardine trans first pack sardines in non France in eighteen
thirty four. When France's sardine canning industry suffered during the
eighteenth century, they turned to Portugal, and by nineteen twelve
(19:39):
that country was the largest global exporter of canned fish.
Four hundred cannaries were operating across Portugal during their peak.
In Britain had a large fish canning industry during this
time too, as did Norway. I know listeners from those
places are probably like, how dare you put us in
one sentence? I'm telling you future episodes. It was too
(20:01):
much speaking of future episodes. According to some sources, I
found French colonialism made sardines popular in what is now Malaysia,
particularly a brand of sardines in tomato sauce called I
AM Brand that got started by a French colonist in
Malaysia named Alfred Kluette Um and he decided to focus
(20:24):
on canning and preserving. He had a whole other thing
going on, but he turned. He turned to this um
and he included sardines in that which were seasonally abundant
in Malaysia. He started canning them in eight In the beginning,
these cans symbolized colonialism and status, in part because they
were hard to find and somewhat expensive to manufacture. It
(20:46):
was also a way for European colonists to separate themselves
from the local food in the country they were occupying,
food they often viewed as on sanitary and very heavy
quotes yes Um. A similar story with canned sartines has
taken place in a handful of Asian countries, including the Philippines,
where one local company producing can sartines started offering innovations
(21:08):
like easy open cans and pouches in the two thousands,
which I want to return to and talk to talk
more about later. Oh oh absolutely yes, UM. Going back
to Malaysia. By the nineteen thirties, tin sardines had become
a staple food as the manufacturing of them rose in
the price dropped. According to one report about all can
(21:29):
sartines exported from California ended up in Malaysia at one
time and more on California's industry. In a second, UM
sartinan's reviewed as a good source of protein and people
liked the taste. Sardine sandwiches were popular by the nineteen
seventies and eighties, made with other local ingredients. So while
the brand may have been introduced by this French guy, UM,
(21:50):
Malaysia has definitely made it their own. UM. Also, of note,
this is but one story at local companies offer sardines
to UM, but it was the interesting article about that.
And also listeners, if you've got more information, Yes, personal
experience always welcome. This is sort of outside the scope
(22:12):
of this podcast, but briefly, after World War One and
the global Spanish sloop pandemic that killed over fifty million people,
the International Olympic Committee put on the nineteen Summer Olympics
in Belgium, marketing it as a way to unify in
the aftermath of those events. Underfunded and stretched, Belgium try
(22:33):
to provide accommodations and food for the athletes, but they struggled,
and athletes described breakfasts of a role coffee and quote
one little sardine. Stepping back a bit, America's East coast
had a handful of sardine canaries, to particularly Maine. George
Buram kick started the sardine canaries in that state and
(22:54):
by some accounts in all of the u US in
eighteen sixty seven and allegedly after a visit to France
and seeing their sardine canning industry. In the early nineteen hundreds,
Maine had eighty nine cannaries employing eight thousand people. Many
of the packers were women, and that's also an interesting
threat that fund. Yes. Oh and here's some some of
(23:20):
the legallys we've teased. Yes, you know, you know, we
love some legally. The British Board of Trade enacted to
policy in nineteen nine that forbade any fish that was
not taxonomically at sardine from being labeled as sardines, pretty
much excluding sardines so confusing from North America that came
(23:44):
from North America. To improve this was a whole thing.
But as part of this, to improve the reputation of
sardines in Maine, a few commissions were introduced over the
decades to do spot quality checks, amongst other things. Because
I feel like, from what I read in these articles,
startines from Europe, and I guess not North America had
(24:06):
a much better reputation, so they were trying to share.
They were like, don't call your product that is also
basically a sardine a sardine when we want to make
sure that we're selling our product. Thank you very much, indeed,
but I mean, on the other hand, there was another
lawsuit around this time that led to Norway starting to
(24:30):
label their products as smoked herring because they couldn't call
it sardines either anymore. Yeah, yes, the ladies man who
indeed a whole sardine situation. It is a whole situation.
Speaking of situations, Okay, Canned sardines saw a real boom
(24:52):
and canneries along the western US coast in the early
twentie century, and these sardines fed millions of soldiers, ever
sees and thousands of workers, many of them immigrants working
along or near Canary Row in Monterey, California. During the
thirties and forties, California boasted the largest stardine fishery in
the Western Hemisphere, and fisherman pulled in seven six thousand
(25:15):
tons in peak season from nineteen thirty six to nineteen
thirty seven, So a lot everything looking good, looking good.
In n John Steinbeck published the novel Canary Row, and
in the nineteen forty nine film Kissing the Dark, a
stylish model serves the sandwich of sardines and peanut butter um.
(25:37):
The point of including this as and she was supposed
to be like really stylish. This was you know, upper
class food. Yeah, this was like, oh goodness. At the time,
Americans were going through about three point eight million cases
of sardines annually. But by the nineteen fifties, the sardine
population in that area had decreased dramatically. Canary Row was
(26:02):
largely abandoned, and the sardine industry had pretty much collapsed.
Historians looking into this have offered a couple of reasons
for why all this happened. The main one is over fishing.
Beginning in the nineteen thirties, sardines not only were being canned,
but also ground up for animal feed and used in
products like glue and paint and industrially. Um and that
(26:24):
coupled with demand for the can stuff put a massive
dent in the population. More recently, and I love this,
this is interesting. Specimens of old seaweed further explained the
drop of the sardine population off the American West Coast um,
providing evidence of cycles of ocean upwelling. Okay, this is great. Yes,
(26:47):
So basically this is when nutrient waters from the deep
rise up to impart nutrients to more nutrient depleted shallower waters.
Using this ancient seaweed, scientists uncovered a dramatic decrease in
upwelling that corresponded to the decline of the sardine population. Yeah.
And an upwelling has to do with a with a
(27:09):
bunch of different factors um uh from from rainfall to
UH to ecological systems to all all sorts of kind
of things. But um yeah. I will also note here
that similar declines in sardine populations were happening all over
the world in the mid nineteen hundreds through the early
(27:30):
two thousand's UM. Just for one example, the the Southern
African catches peaked in the nineteen sixties and then busted
like immediately um like fishers switched to anchovies, and stock
of sardines there has never really recovered. And on top
of that, can sardines were frequently guarded as foods for
the poor or as the food of necessity, especially here
(27:53):
in the US. Especially here in the US, thank you.
Most believed that sardines was something eaten straight from the
can cold, and maybe they found the skin and bones
off putting. The availability of refrigerators for the average American
didn't help either, because now you could get frozen fish
or fresh fish and then ter tuna dot thank you.
(28:21):
In the wake of the wide scale collapse of the
can sardine industry, many fishers, producers, and customers pivoted towards
canned tuna instead, and in the absence of the sardine,
it really solidified tuna's reputation as the superior canned fish,
wholesome and without bones, great for the whole family. A
(28:42):
huge marketing campaign for tuna helped it surpass sardines too,
so it's like sardines are down for the count, tuna
comes in. It's like, oh yeah, I'll just take your
place and really tracks talking while you're gone m h.
From seven to six, intense restrictions and moratoriums around sardine
(29:03):
fishing were enacted and enforced in the US, allowing for
the sardine population to replenish. However, sardines had largely fallen
out of oague in America, with most preferring tuna. Maine's
last canary and the last in the US, from what
I gathered, closed in twenty Still, officials in Monterey expressed
(29:26):
concern that the numbers were once again reaching over fishing
territory in twenty nineteen. Yeah, and over on the other
coast Pacific, sardines are under population management right now. UM.
Commercial fishing of them was closed as off and has
not reopened yet. Yeah, and the Monterey one UM they
(29:47):
had to they were going to monitor again in then
the pandemic happened, and as far as I know, they
haven't they haven't been able to complete that UM survey.
But perhaps we'll see some updates around that soon. Yeah,
especially because sardines are experiencing a comeback here in the US,
particularly the fresh variety. UM. They are also more commonly
(30:09):
being used to feed tuna. I saw a couple of
articles about this, the belief being a diet of sardines
improves the taste of tuna, which is kind of interesting
given the history we just talked about. In recent years,
Portugal's canned fish industry has bounced back to producing about
the rate they were at their peak, but with far
(30:30):
fewer canneries due to improvements in technologies. UM sardines have
also been really growing in popularity in places like Japan,
and I would love if people could write in about that.
All the articles I try to read, we're behind a paywall, Okay, sure, yeah,
I would love more information. UM they're uh. There was
(30:50):
a really interestingly well studied UM ecological boom and bust
in sardines in the Indian Ocean from through twenty f teen,
like had this like wild peak UM and then was
down to like of former numbers by UM, which was
(31:10):
so destructive for the livelihoods of UM, these small business fishers,
which is terrible. UM. But on the plus side, UM,
we're living in an age now where we were able
to not like us, but you know, like people in
the industry, we're able to study factors UM from rainfall
(31:33):
and upwelling, to monsoons and ocean temperatures, to populations of
both food and predators, to technology advances that have allowed
for more thorough catches UM, and combine all of that
data into advice for the future on how to watch
for UM, watch for potential natural dips and populations, and
(31:57):
prevent overfishing during those times. Yeah, very important information. UM.
And then I just wanted to include this because I
hadn't heard of it and I thought it was interesting. UM.
Somewhere around the end of twenty nineteen, a group of
Italians came together to oppose populist figure Matteo Salvini while
(32:17):
promoting human rights in respect for migrants. They packed into
a piazza for a flash mob, earning them the name
Sardines and spurning on this movement across the whole country
again where a food show. I know it's ongoing, but
I did want to mention it because that was interesting
to me. Yeah. Yeah, sardines, Sartines. We went all over
(32:39):
the place, but still not to a coast where we
can eat. Lauren, Oh, I hope, I hope that that
that you'll forgive me for suggesting such an all over
the place, um outline. But but I think this one's
a lot of fun and right, and I'm really excited
(33:01):
about going down all of these little rabbit holes in
the future as am I. It was. It was a
fun one. It was a little overwhelming, but don't appologize
it was. It was good, um, And I trust the
good listeners will let us know if there's any particular
rabbit hole you really want us to pursue. Yeah, tell us, yes.
But in the meantime, I think this is what we
(33:22):
have to say about sardines from now. Yes. Yes, we
do have some listener mail prepared for you though, and
we will get into that as soon as we get
back from one more quick break for a word from
our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you.
(33:46):
We're back with fish face. Well, that was ridiculous than
I was trying to do this SpongeBob one. Anyway, you
haven't seen it, so it doesn't I still have it.
(34:08):
It's okay, but that's what I was trying to accomplish,
and I knew you wouldn't get it, so I was like,
well I can do a more generic Okay, Um, I
hope everyone will forgive me for what happened. Oh dear okay,
Danielle wrote about our green bean episode. So I'm still
(34:31):
looking for my grandma's tomato soupcake recipe. My sister won't
give it up, but to the beans. Growing up here
in New Jersey in the eighties, I was lucky enough
to have known my great grandparents. My great grandpa moved
to Hoboken from San Marco, Italy in the early nineteen
hundreds with his brother. They were farmers back in Italy,
and according to my grandmother, they had more than enough
(34:53):
food during the depression. My great grandpa died when I
was seven or eight, so I was really little, But
I remember walking from my grandma's house in Jersey City
to their house just up the street and going down
a skinny alleyway and into the large ring gate with
a fancy latch on it. Once the gate opened, it
was literally like the secret garden. A large arch held
(35:14):
a beautiful grape vine with the most disgusting grapes I've
ever eaten. They are used to make grape juice, a
k a wine that he'd make in the basement, and
a small garden with neat little rows of every vegetable
you could think of. The two I remember most vividly
are basil, probably because every time I smell it, I
(35:34):
get transported back into that garden. And green beans, mostly
because I was a picky eater and those were one
of the veggies I devoured. Something my grandmother continued to
make after her parents died was a green bean salad,
which I know the recipe for because we made it
together a bunch of times before she passed away. So
here's the recipe. Step one, snap your beans. Step to
(35:58):
cook them until they are fork tender. Step three add
good quality red wine vinegar and olive oil. She'd only
used beer totally olive oil. She was extremely picky. Step
four at about as much fresh garlic as you can stand.
Step five, refrigerate for twenty four hours. It needs to marinate.
Mm hmmm. A few years ago, I went to a
(36:18):
barbecue at my sister in law's house. She also was
very smart and married in Italian. His mom had brought
green bean salad. I put some on my plate and
hesitantly took a bite, expecting it to not taste like
what I'm used to, but it tasted exactly the same.
We found out that our families are from nearby regions,
(36:39):
and his mom offered to show me how to make
fresh pasta, as that was one thing my grandmother stopped doing.
What's the fourteen grandkids started coming around. We still haven't
learned yet, but I have been watching TikTok and YouTube videos,
but I'm still nervous to try myself. Anyway, Thanks for
covering my favorite vegetable. Ps. Where is my tailor ham episode?
(36:59):
It's not called pork roll. Yes, I believe you. I've
been intimidated by the Tailor Hams slash pork Roll episode
in the same way that you are intimidated by fresh pasta.
I'm just like, well, I don't know. I don't know
(37:20):
about that one. It it sounds controversial. I mean there's
a lot of exculamation points and question marks in there. Yeah,
we'll do it. I want to know more. Um. Danielle
also gave us a how to order Forever in New
Jersey and it was like, don't take any pauses in
(37:41):
between words, So thank you, thank you. Yeah yeah, now
I have Yes, I have witnessed this myself. They do
not have time to waste be direct. Yeah. Oh my gosh,
I'm already like crumpling under the anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah,
no as a Southerner now like now I'm a Southerner
and I'm like, oh, I can't get a sentence out
(38:02):
in less than seven minutes, Like what are you talking? Well,
we'll work on that, will work on that. Also, this
recipe sounds great to me. It sounds so fresh and
the way right. Oh my goodness, I that is. I
always kind of like, I forget how much I love
(38:24):
a good vegetable salad, especially if it's like in the summer,
nice and fresh. Yeah yeah, m m m um. Oh
and fresh basil is like the nice sail on the
entire planet. Yeah, nice little secret garden. Yeah ok um.
(38:46):
Heidi wrote back in April, I tried to listen to
the There Is No Spoon episode while I was driving
around and it wouldn't load. So I try to get
at home and it still wouldn't load. And then it
hit me, duh, it's in the title There's no actually
an episode about Spoons. And they made this fake episode
show up in my feed somehow as a joke. How
delightfully metau Fast forward to now and people are writing
(39:08):
it about spoons. It really sounds like there was a
conversation that I missed, But yet the episode will not
load on my phone even now, So I ask you,
is there or is there not an episode about Spoons?
If there is, I'll have to find another podcast app
or something to be able to listen to it. Thanks
in advance for clearing this up. And I thought you
would enjoy the story in any case. Oh no, no,
(39:33):
we're not that clever. We aren't. But wouldn't it be
like can you imagine if we had the depth and
diabolical nous to be like, not only will there not
be a Spoon episode, we'll read some fake listener mail
and then oh marn, oh my goodness, that is that
is I don't. I do not have the brain power
(39:54):
to go that far. Y'all should know right now that
I will never be that tricks because I'm tired. Yeah,
I can only do that every now and then in
D and D every now and then. Oh oh, that's true,
that's true. I have time to really think about it.
(40:15):
I do enjoy that it happened to be episode in
that title that is. Yeah, yeah, I U when whenever
whenever we get listener right in and say that they're
having problems playing one specific episode. Um uh. The general
advice is always like try try like deleting it and
(40:38):
re downloading um or yeah, try it on another app
or um let us know what platform it is and
we can try to troubleshoot with our production team. Um
so uh so yeah, try those steps. Let us know
if it still doesn't work, um, and we will. I don't.
(40:59):
Maybe maybe, like the the internet, the internet is just
messing with us. Maybe yeah, maybe there is no episode
we did record one. Maybe the listeners are breaking us
for Oh no, Now I'm full of doubt. How quickly
(41:23):
the tables have turned. Well, you've you've you've raised more
questions than we've been able to answer. I think we've
been played, Lauren. Yes, yes, well let us know continue
messing with us or will help you. I'm not sure
(41:43):
what's case anymore. Yes, uh And thanks to you both
of those listeners for writing. You would like to write
to us, that you can or email us hello at
saber pot dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
(42:06):
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, probably unless
it's this one particular episode. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm lare In Vogelbam, and today
we have an episode for you about sardines. And it
is a vast one, yes, vast and multitudinous, like a
school of sardines. Indeed. Uh, any particular reason this one
was on your mind? Uh? Well, I was. I was
(00:32):
thinking about types of topics that we hadn't done in
a second, and I was like, can we do weird seafood?
And then I was like, we're in charge of this,
we can do whatever we want. And uh. Then I
was thinking about like like fish that are good and
fresh in the summer, and I my brain was just
like sardines. Uh. And I started looking into it and
(00:55):
I was like, yeah, there's there's like a lot here,
there is, and and that's what we were discussing before
we started to record, as I thought, okay, yeah, sardines, okay,
But I didn't think there would be that much on
them search wise and at all. Really, And I was
wrong that incorrect? Oh was like proven incorrect? Oh yeah
(01:21):
we could um. As it turns out, the word sardines
covers a lot of territory, and we could talk about
specific uh types of sardines or specific areas of catching
of sardines um in a number of different episodes. Yes, Yes,
because I I tried to go down like, I know
(01:45):
they're big in Norway. Let me look into that. I
know they're big here and here and here, and I
think just the search terms weren't providing what I needed.
But also I suspect whole other episode. Yeah, but we
are going to mention one of those. I just I
just feel like there's uncovered history that I missed. Oh
I hate that. Okay, Well that's that's all right. You
(02:07):
know we can we can give an overview today and
then we can specify in later episodes. Yes, and your
listeners are great at at pointing out, pointing as in
the right direction, So we are counting on you. Um,
I don't have too many I don't have too much
experience with sardines. I don't think the first thing I thought,
because I'm a child is SpongeBob, because there's sort of
(02:29):
a running joke and SpongeBob. But I did recently purchase
some even before this, for some filling for on a
geary in my ongoing question. So I guess I can
report back. I'm very excited, very excited. Yeah, yeah, I
I also do not have a great deal of sardine experience.
(02:51):
I think mostly as a like a like a tapas
or as a kind of kind of plate um in
various like tomato based preparations. And I've always quite enjoyed
them like that. Yeah, but yeah, I oh, I need
I would like more experienced now, please. I would like
(03:13):
to go to the Mediterranean and eat a large number
of grilled sardines different different times right off to me.
I have had them fried once and they were very good.
Oh I bet no, okay, alright, yep. You can see
(03:38):
our anchovy episode for some similar information. Tuna is pretty
involved in this um and canning sure. Yeah. Also right,
other other marine fishery episodes, UM, big Big Fish Industry, UM,
(03:58):
one of our episodes. Uh, cod always great. M I
haven't shown you this more. And but as we've mentioned,
we recently moved out of our office and I found
the poster we got with the different types of fish.
Yeah that Brooks gave us from that Hawaii episode. Uh,
(04:20):
and I it's right at my feet. I'll show you
after I remember that's a good poster. It is. That's
why I was saying, I can't leave this. I don't
know where I put it in my apartment. But even
though right it's a large it's like it's like as
large as either of us. And we proceeded to bring
it like to Maui and then back to Oahu and
get back to the you know, continental United States. It
(04:42):
was a process, it was. It made it on many flights.
Not a worthwhile poster indeed, indeed, well, Um, in the meantime,
before I show you this glorious poster again, Lauren, I
guess that breaks us to our question. Mhm, sardines, what
(05:05):
are they? Well, m okay As as we've said, the
words sardine can technically refer to a number of similar fish,
depending on who's defining it. Um, But what you're generally
looking at is a small oily fish that lives in
these huge schools in the pelagic zone of the ocean,
like off the shore, but not like down in the deeps. Yeah. Um.
(05:29):
And in addition to being eaten fresh cooked, are frequently
preserved by being pickled, smoked, salt cured, and or canned. Uh.
They're small enough that they are often eaten with the
bones and skin still attached, because they're like a little
bit chewy but not inedible that way. Um. They are
fairly dense, fleshed, and kind of strong in flavor, like
a savory and earthy or what do you call it
(05:52):
oceany at that point. Umh and like fishy, yeah, which
I guess makes sense for fish, but not all fish
are fishy. Um. But yeah, they're like, um, they're like
a little pocket fish or like they're like you've crammed
an entire hamachi into like a six inch package. Um,
They're they're fun sized, make them sound so cute. I
(06:13):
was looking at pictures and I was literally talking to
my screen like, oh, you look at the little buddy,
like you know, guy, I do again. I keep an
aquarium at home. I have fish in this aquarium. Now, um,
some corridoras, which are also very cute, and so I
just I just really appreciate fish anyway. Uh uh huh. Yeah.
(06:42):
They are members of the clupeidi or herring family. Uh.
Ecologically and commercially, they are similar enough to herring and
anchovies that the three groups are often grouped together for
like reporting larger trends and in some cases there have
been disagreement over what should be called a herring versus
(07:03):
a sardine versus a pill shard, which is also intertwined here. Um,
that's above my head. I wouldn't dare at any rate. Yes,
a national laws do dictate what maybe classified as a sardine,
and the term gets applied to at least twenty recognized
species across at least five genuses. Mhm mh. Problem here
(07:31):
it certainly is uh so right. I cannot like precisely
describe what a sardine looks like because it varies, but
in general you are looking at a fish that will
grow to about five to fifteen inches long, that's about
fifteen with a fairly tiny ray type fins, that is,
spined fins, their silvery and color, often with some blue
(07:54):
or green along their backs, and U shaped like like
sleek little submarines like a long pointed ovals. Yeah. Uh
and this is a safety in numbers kind of fish
relatively low on the food chain, like they eat plankton
and other microorganisms. Um. And they are a type of
forage fish so called because I think because a number
(08:15):
of larger fish and birds and marine mammals just sort
of go up to a school and like pick off
little clumps of them, the way that a cow forage
is on grass. That's what I'm assuming, yeah, nature, or
maybe because they forage on the plankton. I'm not sure.
I should have looked it up, but I didn't. Now Here,
we are here, we are here, we are onwards at
(08:38):
any rate, I'm oversimplifying. Um, this this ecological system, Um,
it's a lot more complicated than that, and in really
cool ways. UM. Schools of sardines will spawn tens or
hundreds of thousands of eggs a year and often migrate
throughout the year, and they move in these big, beautiful,
(09:00):
shimmery masses that actually make them invisible from certain angles
because their silvery sides scatter the sun that's filtering down
from above in these little patterns that just look like
a mirage. Um. They are fairly easy to catch, though, um,
and without a lot of eyecatch in most situations, because
you're just kind of like find a shoal and then
(09:20):
scoop some up with like an appropriately sized net, and
then you have a bunch of sardines. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean I love the mirage aspect that's really cool,
but then they like, yeah, sardines straight move and they
(09:42):
are eaten fresh in places where they're caught, grilled or
steamed or baked into pies or however people consume fish
because they're small, they are often like a snack or
appetizer or or bar food sort of deal, like I
was saying, yeah um. They're also quite often preserved right
as oaked, salt, cured, pickled, and or packed in oil
(10:03):
or water, or tomato sauce and canned, which brings out
a sort of chewy or like toothsome quality in the
flesh and like concentrates the flavor a little bit. They
are frequently prepared skin on and bones in which adds
texture and often gives you this like this like burst
of flavor when you bite through the skin. Oh it's
so nice, and I'm I'm so mad that I'm not
(10:25):
on a trip to a fishing coast right now, right
gosh ha um. They are also processed in a number
of other ways, dried or meld and flaked or pressed
for oil. Sardine meal is also used as an animal feed,
and the oil is also used in industrial applications like
(10:45):
like paint and surfacing like linoleum mm hmm, yeah, so interesting.
Well what about the nutrition, Yeah, speaking not about linolium anymore.
Um Uh. It depends on how you prepare them, of course,
but sardines are high in protein and low in carbs,
with some good fats and a bunch of vitamins and minerals.
(11:07):
The bones and skin are particular boosters here. Uh. If
you're getting them canned, I'd say look for types that
are packed in water or tomato instead of in oil,
because oil is going to really condense your calorie content there.
But yeah, pretty good for you. And because they are
low on the food chain, they are lower in mercury
than bigger fish, though they are still susceptible to other
(11:29):
oceanic toxins like microplastics and pesticides. So I don't know. Yes,
do your research. Yeah, if it had died, don't. It's
very complicated, it is. Well, okay, we do have some
numbers for you. We do as often. The larger forage
(11:54):
species group of herring and anchovies and sardines made up
over eight percent of global marine fishing production. Um. That
was about fifteen point three million tons of fish, and
that's like way down from what it's been previously. Earlier
(12:14):
in the two thousands, it was as much as like
thirty of global marine fishing production. Wow, like like either way,
a really major part of the fishing industry. Just one
genus of sardines, Um Sardanella, caught in tropical and subtropical regions,
was the fourth largest contributor to global marine fishing production
(12:38):
as of Dang. Lots of sardines, Lots of sardines, low
price canned sardines from Morocco, Poland and Thailand to make
up a big part of that market. Um, but a
lot of a lot of sources I found kind of
separated out because in places like France they are viewed
as more of a luxury item. M Um. So there's that.
(13:01):
Some people collect vintage sardine cans and you can go
find places or like marketplaces and stuff. It's pretty cool.
If anyone does this, you have to write in you
do you do? Yes? Um. There's a Main Coast Sardine
History Museum in Jonesport, Maine, and I looked it up
and checked it's still open and it looks super cute.
(13:22):
It looks within the best way, like a shack on
side of the road. Um, and this is from like
a picture. It was on their website, but from one picture.
So I don't know. But if anyone's been there places, yeah, yes,
there's also a canning a canning museum in Norway that's
(13:45):
not specifically about sardines, but it has a lot to
do with sardines. So if you've been there, let us know.
Oh and here's another thing, listeners, I've got to know more. Okay.
So in some parts of the world, sardines are quite beloved. Uh.
In Lisbon, for instance, the Lisbon sardine is viewed as
the city's unofficial official fish. They are featured in art
(14:10):
and are a common souvenir for tourists. During the Festival
of St. Anthony in June, festivalgoers can sample fresh grilled sardines. Apparently,
like hundreds of people are just grilling them and you
can sample them. Um. And also apparently, the story goes
that Saint Anthony encountered trouble converting people, so he decided
(14:30):
to practice his sermons on sardines and they listened. So
Saint Anthony was like, okay, I'm good. His confidence was Listeners,
you've got to write in about this powered by the sardines.
Empowered by the sardines. I also read it's a big
(14:51):
day for weddings. Yeah, I think weddings. Um, so again,
provide more information please. June is sardine season in Portugal,
so it is the best time to find fresh shardin's there.
And yes, I desperately desperately want to dry grilled sardines
a right, one day, Lauren, One day, okay, okay, but
(15:17):
not today this day. We must talk about history, yes,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from a quick break for a
word from our sponsors, and we're back, thanky sponsor, Yes,
thank you. So normally through a whole history of the
(15:42):
fish in question, but the fish in question when it
comes to sardines, yes, could refer to a handful of things.
And that is an issue that, as we mentioned, continues
to cause problems to this day. And we're going to
get into that even more in this history bit like
like legal disputes, uh huh. And on top of that,
(16:02):
all of these types of fish that are sometimes called sardines, uh,
their history split off in a way that gave me
a headache. Um I made this a twelve part series.
But I think it's safe to say that they're old. Yes. Um.
The Herring family in general dates back, has been biologically
(16:24):
about what where they are for for about sixty million
years or so. So old ye so so yeah. Uh.
We do know ancient Romans discovered healthy populations of sardines
along the coast, and that they enjoyed them so much
they became something of a staple for a time. The
(16:46):
word sardine in this context first appeared in the fifteenth
century in English. In English, and a lot of people
think it's because of a lot of sardines came from Sardinia,
but that's never actually been yeah, mm hmm. The phrase
packed like sardines first appeared in eight And I've never
(17:08):
heard of this game, but apparently there's a game, um
called packed like sardines. I think it was first recorded
in Yeah, or to sardines. I think I something is
is digging a bell way in the back of my
like like Ohio, Pennsylvania upbringing um. But it's it's just
(17:32):
it's just a bell and the bell is marked move.
So I read it and it doesn't make sense to
me from what I read. It's kid had one person hides,
and then whoever finds the first gets next to them,
and then so on and so forth. The last kid
is the first one to hide the next time. Yes,
that's totally it, and that's why it's called sardines because yeah,
(17:54):
it's a it's a variation on hiding go seek. That's
totally it, oh man, Yeah, right, where it's clarified, right,
totally yeah. And so like, so like if you're the
first kid hiding, like it behooves you to find a
place that like a lot of people could pack into,
but it is still you know, hidden, which is like
(18:16):
a difficult a difficult ask. Okay, Okay, that's since because
otherwise because like like the point of the game is
to like is to like be hidden for as long
as possible. And you know, but if like kids start
like like sticking out in various ways, that you're gonna
get found easier. Okay, that makes sense because to me
(18:36):
it sounded like you wanted to be found as quickly
as possible. Just hide in the open. No no, no no, no, no,
opposite opposite, got it? Okay? All right, Um, over, now
that we've solved that mystery, over on the eastern coastline
of North America the sardine fishing question. The Atlantic herring
(18:58):
has long been fished by indigenous people bolls in the
area using poles and nets. After the Europeans arrived, this
eventually gave way to boats called sardine hallers and then
purse signing, and that's we've talked about that before. But
fishing with purse like nets that could also be its
own episode, so that's very condensed. But oh yeah. With
(19:18):
the invention of canning in the early eighteen hundreds, Europeans
with access to water quickly started canning fish, including the
sardine trans first pack sardines in non France in eighteen
thirty four. When France's sardine canning industry suffered during the
eighteenth century, they turned to Portugal, and by nineteen twelve
(19:39):
that country was the largest global exporter of canned fish.
Four hundred cannaries were operating across Portugal during their peak.
In Britain had a large fish canning industry during this
time too, as did Norway. I know listeners from those
places are probably like, how dare you put us in
one sentence? I'm telling you future episodes. It was too
(20:01):
much speaking of future episodes. According to some sources, I
found French colonialism made sardines popular in what is now Malaysia,
particularly a brand of sardines in tomato sauce called I
AM Brand that got started by a French colonist in
Malaysia named Alfred Kluette Um and he decided to focus
(20:24):
on canning and preserving. He had a whole other thing
going on, but he turned. He turned to this um
and he included sardines in that which were seasonally abundant
in Malaysia. He started canning them in eight In the beginning,
these cans symbolized colonialism and status, in part because they
were hard to find and somewhat expensive to manufacture. It
(20:46):
was also a way for European colonists to separate themselves
from the local food in the country they were occupying,
food they often viewed as on sanitary and very heavy
quotes yes Um. A similar story with canned sartines has
taken place in a handful of Asian countries, including the Philippines,
where one local company producing can sartines started offering innovations
(21:08):
like easy open cans and pouches in the two thousands,
which I want to return to and talk to talk
more about later. Oh oh absolutely yes, UM. Going back
to Malaysia. By the nineteen thirties, tin sardines had become
a staple food as the manufacturing of them rose in
the price dropped. According to one report about all can
(21:29):
sartines exported from California ended up in Malaysia at one
time and more on California's industry. In a second, UM
sartinan's reviewed as a good source of protein and people
liked the taste. Sardine sandwiches were popular by the nineteen
seventies and eighties, made with other local ingredients. So while
the brand may have been introduced by this French guy, UM,
(21:50):
Malaysia has definitely made it their own. UM. Also, of note,
this is but one story at local companies offer sardines
to UM, but it was the interesting article about that.
And also listeners, if you've got more information, Yes, personal
experience always welcome. This is sort of outside the scope
(22:12):
of this podcast, but briefly, after World War One and
the global Spanish sloop pandemic that killed over fifty million people,
the International Olympic Committee put on the nineteen Summer Olympics
in Belgium, marketing it as a way to unify in
the aftermath of those events. Underfunded and stretched, Belgium try
(22:33):
to provide accommodations and food for the athletes, but they struggled,
and athletes described breakfasts of a role coffee and quote
one little sardine. Stepping back a bit, America's East coast
had a handful of sardine canaries, to particularly Maine. George
Buram kick started the sardine canaries in that state and
(22:54):
by some accounts in all of the u US in
eighteen sixty seven and allegedly after a visit to France
and seeing their sardine canning industry. In the early nineteen hundreds,
Maine had eighty nine cannaries employing eight thousand people. Many
of the packers were women, and that's also an interesting
threat that fund. Yes. Oh and here's some some of
(23:20):
the legallys we've teased. Yes, you know, you know, we
love some legally. The British Board of Trade enacted to
policy in nineteen nine that forbade any fish that was
not taxonomically at sardine from being labeled as sardines, pretty
much excluding sardines so confusing from North America that came
(23:44):
from North America. To improve this was a whole thing.
But as part of this, to improve the reputation of
sardines in Maine, a few commissions were introduced over the
decades to do spot quality checks, amongst other things. Because
I feel like, from what I read in these articles,
startines from Europe, and I guess not North America had
(24:06):
a much better reputation, so they were trying to share.
They were like, don't call your product that is also
basically a sardine a sardine when we want to make
sure that we're selling our product. Thank you very much, indeed,
but I mean, on the other hand, there was another
lawsuit around this time that led to Norway starting to
(24:30):
label their products as smoked herring because they couldn't call
it sardines either anymore. Yeah, yes, the ladies man who
indeed a whole sardine situation. It is a whole situation.
Speaking of situations, Okay, Canned sardines saw a real boom
(24:52):
and canneries along the western US coast in the early
twentie century, and these sardines fed millions of soldiers, ever
sees and thousands of workers, many of them immigrants working
along or near Canary Row in Monterey, California. During the
thirties and forties, California boasted the largest stardine fishery in
the Western Hemisphere, and fisherman pulled in seven six thousand
(25:15):
tons in peak season from nineteen thirty six to nineteen
thirty seven, So a lot everything looking good, looking good.
In n John Steinbeck published the novel Canary Row, and
in the nineteen forty nine film Kissing the Dark, a
stylish model serves the sandwich of sardines and peanut butter um.
(25:37):
The point of including this as and she was supposed
to be like really stylish. This was you know, upper
class food. Yeah, this was like, oh goodness. At the time,
Americans were going through about three point eight million cases
of sardines annually. But by the nineteen fifties, the sardine
population in that area had decreased dramatically. Canary Row was
(26:02):
largely abandoned, and the sardine industry had pretty much collapsed.
Historians looking into this have offered a couple of reasons
for why all this happened. The main one is over fishing.
Beginning in the nineteen thirties, sardines not only were being canned,
but also ground up for animal feed and used in
products like glue and paint and industrially. Um and that
(26:24):
coupled with demand for the can stuff put a massive
dent in the population. More recently, and I love this,
this is interesting. Specimens of old seaweed further explained the
drop of the sardine population off the American West Coast um,
providing evidence of cycles of ocean upwelling. Okay, this is great. Yes,
(26:47):
So basically this is when nutrient waters from the deep
rise up to impart nutrients to more nutrient depleted shallower waters.
Using this ancient seaweed, scientists uncovered a dramatic decrease in
upwelling that corresponded to the decline of the sardine population. Yeah.
And an upwelling has to do with a with a
(27:09):
bunch of different factors um uh from from rainfall to
UH to ecological systems to all all sorts of kind
of things. But um yeah. I will also note here
that similar declines in sardine populations were happening all over
the world in the mid nineteen hundreds through the early
(27:30):
two thousand's UM. Just for one example, the the Southern
African catches peaked in the nineteen sixties and then busted
like immediately um like fishers switched to anchovies, and stock
of sardines there has never really recovered. And on top
of that, can sardines were frequently guarded as foods for
the poor or as the food of necessity, especially here
(27:53):
in the US. Especially here in the US, thank you.
Most believed that sardines was something eaten straight from the
can cold, and maybe they found the skin and bones
off putting. The availability of refrigerators for the average American
didn't help either, because now you could get frozen fish
or fresh fish and then ter tuna dot thank you.
(28:21):
In the wake of the wide scale collapse of the
can sardine industry, many fishers, producers, and customers pivoted towards
canned tuna instead, and in the absence of the sardine,
it really solidified tuna's reputation as the superior canned fish,
wholesome and without bones, great for the whole family. A
(28:42):
huge marketing campaign for tuna helped it surpass sardines too,
so it's like sardines are down for the count, tuna
comes in. It's like, oh yeah, I'll just take your
place and really tracks talking while you're gone m h.
From seven to six, intense restrictions and moratoriums around sardine
(29:03):
fishing were enacted and enforced in the US, allowing for
the sardine population to replenish. However, sardines had largely fallen
out of oague in America, with most preferring tuna. Maine's
last canary and the last in the US, from what
I gathered, closed in twenty Still, officials in Monterey expressed
(29:26):
concern that the numbers were once again reaching over fishing
territory in twenty nineteen. Yeah, and over on the other
coast Pacific, sardines are under population management right now. UM.
Commercial fishing of them was closed as off and has
not reopened yet. Yeah, and the Monterey one UM they
(29:47):
had to they were going to monitor again in then
the pandemic happened, and as far as I know, they
haven't they haven't been able to complete that UM survey.
But perhaps we'll see some updates around that soon. Yeah,
especially because sardines are experiencing a comeback here in the US,
particularly the fresh variety. UM. They are also more commonly
(30:09):
being used to feed tuna. I saw a couple of
articles about this, the belief being a diet of sardines
improves the taste of tuna, which is kind of interesting
given the history we just talked about. In recent years,
Portugal's canned fish industry has bounced back to producing about
the rate they were at their peak, but with far
(30:30):
fewer canneries due to improvements in technologies. UM sardines have
also been really growing in popularity in places like Japan,
and I would love if people could write in about that.
All the articles I try to read, we're behind a paywall, Okay, sure, yeah,
I would love more information. UM they're uh. There was
(30:50):
a really interestingly well studied UM ecological boom and bust
in sardines in the Indian Ocean from through twenty f teen,
like had this like wild peak UM and then was
down to like of former numbers by UM, which was
(31:10):
so destructive for the livelihoods of UM, these small business fishers,
which is terrible. UM. But on the plus side, UM,
we're living in an age now where we were able
to not like us, but you know, like people in
the industry, we're able to study factors UM from rainfall
(31:33):
and upwelling, to monsoons and ocean temperatures, to populations of
both food and predators, to technology advances that have allowed
for more thorough catches UM, and combine all of that
data into advice for the future on how to watch
for UM, watch for potential natural dips and populations, and
(31:57):
prevent overfishing during those times. Yeah, very important information. UM.
And then I just wanted to include this because I
hadn't heard of it and I thought it was interesting. UM.
Somewhere around the end of twenty nineteen, a group of
Italians came together to oppose populist figure Matteo Salvini while
(32:17):
promoting human rights in respect for migrants. They packed into
a piazza for a flash mob, earning them the name
Sardines and spurning on this movement across the whole country
again where a food show. I know it's ongoing, but
I did want to mention it because that was interesting
to me. Yeah. Yeah, sardines, Sartines. We went all over
(32:39):
the place, but still not to a coast where we
can eat. Lauren, Oh, I hope, I hope that that
that you'll forgive me for suggesting such an all over
the place, um outline. But but I think this one's
a lot of fun and right, and I'm really excited
(33:01):
about going down all of these little rabbit holes in
the future as am I. It was. It was a
fun one. It was a little overwhelming, but don't appologize
it was. It was good, um, And I trust the
good listeners will let us know if there's any particular
rabbit hole you really want us to pursue. Yeah, tell us, yes.
But in the meantime, I think this is what we
(33:22):
have to say about sardines from now. Yes. Yes, we
do have some listener mail prepared for you though, and
we will get into that as soon as we get
back from one more quick break for a word from
our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, Yes, thank you.
(33:46):
We're back with fish face. Well, that was ridiculous than
I was trying to do this SpongeBob one. Anyway, you
haven't seen it, so it doesn't I still have it.
(34:08):
It's okay, but that's what I was trying to accomplish,
and I knew you wouldn't get it, so I was like,
well I can do a more generic Okay, Um, I
hope everyone will forgive me for what happened. Oh dear okay,
Danielle wrote about our green bean episode. So I'm still
(34:31):
looking for my grandma's tomato soupcake recipe. My sister won't
give it up, but to the beans. Growing up here
in New Jersey in the eighties, I was lucky enough
to have known my great grandparents. My great grandpa moved
to Hoboken from San Marco, Italy in the early nineteen
hundreds with his brother. They were farmers back in Italy,
and according to my grandmother, they had more than enough
(34:53):
food during the depression. My great grandpa died when I
was seven or eight, so I was really little, But
I remember walking from my grandma's house in Jersey City
to their house just up the street and going down
a skinny alleyway and into the large ring gate with
a fancy latch on it. Once the gate opened, it
was literally like the secret garden. A large arch held
(35:14):
a beautiful grape vine with the most disgusting grapes I've
ever eaten. They are used to make grape juice, a
k a wine that he'd make in the basement, and
a small garden with neat little rows of every vegetable
you could think of. The two I remember most vividly
are basil, probably because every time I smell it, I
(35:34):
get transported back into that garden. And green beans, mostly
because I was a picky eater and those were one
of the veggies I devoured. Something my grandmother continued to
make after her parents died was a green bean salad,
which I know the recipe for because we made it
together a bunch of times before she passed away. So
here's the recipe. Step one, snap your beans. Step to
(35:58):
cook them until they are fork tender. Step three add
good quality red wine vinegar and olive oil. She'd only
used beer totally olive oil. She was extremely picky. Step
four at about as much fresh garlic as you can stand.
Step five, refrigerate for twenty four hours. It needs to marinate.
Mm hmmm. A few years ago, I went to a
(36:18):
barbecue at my sister in law's house. She also was
very smart and married in Italian. His mom had brought
green bean salad. I put some on my plate and
hesitantly took a bite, expecting it to not taste like
what I'm used to, but it tasted exactly the same.
We found out that our families are from nearby regions,
(36:39):
and his mom offered to show me how to make
fresh pasta, as that was one thing my grandmother stopped doing.
What's the fourteen grandkids started coming around. We still haven't
learned yet, but I have been watching TikTok and YouTube videos,
but I'm still nervous to try myself. Anyway, Thanks for
covering my favorite vegetable. Ps. Where is my tailor ham episode?
(36:59):
It's not called pork roll. Yes, I believe you. I've
been intimidated by the Tailor Hams slash pork Roll episode
in the same way that you are intimidated by fresh pasta.
I'm just like, well, I don't know. I don't know
(37:20):
about that one. It it sounds controversial. I mean there's
a lot of exculamation points and question marks in there. Yeah,
we'll do it. I want to know more. Um. Danielle
also gave us a how to order Forever in New
Jersey and it was like, don't take any pauses in
(37:41):
between words, So thank you, thank you. Yeah yeah, now
I have Yes, I have witnessed this myself. They do
not have time to waste be direct. Yeah. Oh my gosh,
I'm already like crumpling under the anxiety. Oh yeah, yeah,
no as a Southerner now like now I'm a Southerner
and I'm like, oh, I can't get a sentence out
(38:02):
in less than seven minutes, Like what are you talking? Well,
we'll work on that, will work on that. Also, this
recipe sounds great to me. It sounds so fresh and
the way right. Oh my goodness, I that is. I
always kind of like, I forget how much I love
(38:24):
a good vegetable salad, especially if it's like in the summer,
nice and fresh. Yeah yeah, m m m um. Oh
and fresh basil is like the nice sail on the
entire planet. Yeah, nice little secret garden. Yeah ok um.
(38:46):
Heidi wrote back in April, I tried to listen to
the There Is No Spoon episode while I was driving
around and it wouldn't load. So I try to get
at home and it still wouldn't load. And then it
hit me, duh, it's in the title There's no actually
an episode about Spoons. And they made this fake episode
show up in my feed somehow as a joke. How
delightfully metau Fast forward to now and people are writing
(39:08):
it about spoons. It really sounds like there was a
conversation that I missed, But yet the episode will not
load on my phone even now, So I ask you,
is there or is there not an episode about Spoons?
If there is, I'll have to find another podcast app
or something to be able to listen to it. Thanks
in advance for clearing this up. And I thought you
would enjoy the story in any case. Oh no, no,
(39:33):
we're not that clever. We aren't. But wouldn't it be
like can you imagine if we had the depth and
diabolical nous to be like, not only will there not
be a Spoon episode, we'll read some fake listener mail
and then oh marn, oh my goodness, that is that
is I don't. I do not have the brain power
(39:54):
to go that far. Y'all should know right now that
I will never be that tricks because I'm tired. Yeah,
I can only do that every now and then in
D and D every now and then. Oh oh, that's true,
that's true. I have time to really think about it.
(40:15):
I do enjoy that it happened to be episode in
that title that is. Yeah, yeah, I U when whenever
whenever we get listener right in and say that they're
having problems playing one specific episode. Um uh. The general
advice is always like try try like deleting it and
(40:38):
re downloading um or yeah, try it on another app
or um let us know what platform it is and
we can try to troubleshoot with our production team. Um
so uh so yeah, try those steps. Let us know
if it still doesn't work, um, and we will. I don't.
(40:59):
Maybe maybe, like the the internet, the internet is just
messing with us. Maybe yeah, maybe there is no episode
we did record one. Maybe the listeners are breaking us
for Oh no, Now I'm full of doubt. How quickly
(41:23):
the tables have turned. Well, you've you've you've raised more
questions than we've been able to answer. I think we've
been played, Lauren. Yes, yes, well let us know continue
messing with us or will help you. I'm not sure
(41:43):
what's case anymore. Yes, uh And thanks to you both
of those listeners for writing. You would like to write
to us, that you can or email us hello at
saber pot dot com. We're also on social media. You
can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver
pod and we do hope to hear from you. Saver
is production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my
(42:06):
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, probably unless
it's this one particular episode. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
your way.
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