August 3, 2022 • 38 mins
This protein is such a popular delicacy that it’s caused conservation problems around the world. Anney and Lauren hop to the amphibious history and science of frog legs.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Save for Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about frog legs. Yeah. This
one goes places just like frogs do. Oh yeah, hey
yeah absolutely it does. Oh I let frogs are so
cute like that was That was the most upsetting wonderful
(00:30):
part about this research is I was like, every time
I opened a page there was a picture of a frog,
and I was like, look about adorable frog. It's gonna
be tasty. Mm hmm. It's a strange place to be.
It's a mixed bag of emotions, for sure. For sure,
(00:54):
I do have a lot of The more I thought
about it, the more I'm like, I've had a lot
of frog memories throughout my life. Not necessary frog legs, um,
but I grew up near a pond and I would
just remember catching tadpoles when I was a kid nothing
and I love doing that. I played a lot of
leap frog as a kid. And then recently I was
(01:16):
fortunate enough to get to go to a beach house
with some friends of mine and when we were coming back,
we were almost back to Atlanta, and this little frog
just jumps onto the windshield out of nowhere inside the car.
Oh and I've never seen like such quick panic that
is also quickly contained because we're gonna move in vehicle.
(01:36):
But it was a tiny, that little sweet frog. Um.
But we all panicked and then we're like, stay calm,
stay calm, and the frog just kept bouncing and trying
to get out of the windshield and bounce to one
end and to the other end, to the one end.
And then we got back to Atlanta. I let the
frog out. I put some water on it and then
let it go. And I hope if you're out there
frog and you're listening to podcast, won't congrats, because this
(02:00):
is probably not your episode. You should be listening to
you now. Yeah, no, no no, no, no no, turn this one off, buddy.
Yeah you heard the story, and now that's the end.
But then I recently got to go back. Another frog
got in the car, and I was like trying to
get back to see his buddy make it back. Unfortunately,
(02:20):
Oh I'm sorry. Well the sun oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know it can be very warm, very too warm
for frogs in cars. Yeah, it was. It was um.
And then you know, just because I have to throw
a Star Wars difference and every time I came. They're
very popular and fan fiction right now because of the
whole group. Yeah, but all that aside. I've had frog
(02:45):
legs once, ostensibly a food show. Ye. How what was
your frog leg eating experience? Like? I liked them, um,
And that's honestly, I probably didn't get the best frog legs.
I remember liking them and thinking they tasted like chicken,
(03:05):
But it wasn't a super memorable experience for me when
when I got them. I thought it would be because
frog legs was a new thing to me, is it.
I was pretty young when this happened. Um, But yeah,
I just basically remember m taste good. Yeah. Yeah, I
think I possibly had them as a kid at some point,
but for sure I ate them. A few years ago
(03:29):
here in Atlanta, there's a like Vietnamese slash Southern restaurant
called Poor Calvin's Um kind of downtown and it's great um.
And yeah, they had a they had a really good
like like fried frog legs, like deep fried frog legs
appetizer and they were lovely. I was like, well, this
is delicious and I'm into it. That sounds so good. Yeah, um. Uh,
(03:55):
I have seen them on menus around town. Other than that, though,
I think um jen Chans and abbage Town had like
a lemon pepper wet frog legs situation recently. I'm like,
that's so good. Um there there is a national frog
leg holiday here in the United States. It's February. Let
(04:17):
that sink in a sec. It only happens on leap here. Uh.
I was like, are they just? Is that some weird
like she that frog legs only get one every four years? Okay,
all right. I will also say another lovely thing in
(04:42):
doing this reading was that that there are so many puns,
just so many. Oh yes, so many reporters enjoying so
many puns. It's a beautiful thing to see. It is
just like frogs and then we eat them. So I
guess this brings us to question, sure, sure, frog legs,
(05:06):
what are they? Well, frog legs are the hind legs
of certain species of frogs, harvested and skinned and bony
feet removed, then cooked up however you like, often on
the bone in stews or sauteed or grilled or breaded
and deep fried. The texture and taste is basically like
(05:28):
chicken wing flats. Yeah, um like tender and moist with
a little bit of chew um and a flavor like
a like a chicken slash mild seafood crossover. Yeah. They
look like like just really cute little ba donks. Every
time I see them, I'm just like, am I going
to eat that cute little bit donk? And then I'm like, yeah,
I am, Yeah, that's that's what's about to happen. Um.
(05:51):
They're like, um, they're like the chicken of the pond.
Oh if no one's taking that, Lauren, that's pretty good,
thank you. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a frog leg producers
(06:13):
get in touch um uh. Frogs um broadly are amphibians
that live in and around bodies of usually fresh water. UM.
They have a permeable skin that water and oxygen can
pass through, so yeah, they have to have a lot
of water in their environments. UM frogs are specialized to
(06:35):
be powerful jumpers thanks to their beef behind legs, which
helps them move quickly when catching prey and or avoiding
being caught. Um. The muscles in their hind legs are
really the only like meaty part of a frog and
can account for like of a frog's mass. Whoa yeah, yeah. Um.
(06:57):
But even accounting for that, like of frogs are really small. Um. Oh,
you just got so excited. I I agree. I like
have you seen the video of the little frogs that
are too little to jump good? Like they're so tiny
that they don't have a good like sense of balance
developed in their inner frog ear or however that works,
(07:17):
and they just they just never land right because they're
too small. Yeah, it's o um Okay, back to ostensibly
a food show here we go. Um. Yes, of the
over seven thousand species of frogs around the world, only
a few grow large enough to be considered like worth
(07:38):
catching and eating. Um. Also, like, lots of them secrete
toxins from their skin to discourage predators that happened to
get ahold of them despite their power legs. Um, and
you generally don't want to mess with that. Also. Also,
although frogs can be farmed kind of um, not profitably, uh,
they're they're often wild caught and over how ting has
(08:00):
seriously endangered the populations of a few species that have
been like traditionally used for food. So a handful of
species are eaten around the world, maybe like fifteen to
twenty um. But ideally as a consumer in like the
United States or Europe especially UM you're looking at either
the American bullfrog or UM the European common frog also
(08:23):
called UM the European edible frog. UM. Bullfrogs are like
a little bit bigger, like three to six inches that's
like eight to fifteen centimeters from snout to vent um
no no nose to but yeah, versus like two to
five inches or five to eleven centimeters for the common frog. UM.
Either way, their their legs outstretched will be about that long.
(08:47):
Frog is a pretty like neutrally flavored meat, so it's
a great base for strong flavors UM heavy spices like garlic,
butter um. If you are into eating things off the
bone own um, there really is a certain satisfaction to it. Yes, agreed,
local harvest of frogs tends to be fairly regulated UM.
(09:10):
In the United States, for example, like most of the
fifty states do have specific catch limits that are like
a dozen or so per person per day at most
during particular seasons. UM. And partially because of this and
a bunch of other issues we're going to talk about
at length, UM, as a consumer, it can be difficult
(09:31):
to make educated choices when you're sourcing frog legs because
exported products are often just the skinned, frozen legs, which
is good for preventing the spread of microbes that can
cause infection of local animals if they get into local waterways,
but also means that you can't visually identify the species
(09:53):
that you're buying. Um. And like with many other like
seafood related products, there's a lot of miss un you're
standing to deliberate dishonesty in labeling. Um. It does not
help that one of the species that's doing okay is
literally called the edible frog. So you know, someone's like, oh,
what kind of frog is this? Oh, it's an edible frog. Uh.
(10:18):
It's really up to local governments to regulate and codify
harvesting and sales practices, and many of them have done that. Yeah,
but there is still work to be done. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um.
Well what about the nutrition? Uh well, it perhaps obviously
depends on exactly how much garlic butter Uh you're using here? Um,
(10:42):
but but frog meat is uh, you know, chocolate protein,
fairly lean, got a decent spread of micronutrients. Um. Uh,
eat a vegetable that isn't garlic butter. If you insist, Lauren.
If you insist, well, car like butter, is its own
(11:02):
food group, I say, but it is all right. Well
what we do I've got I'm messing up, I'm messing
up my questions, Lauren. We do have some numbers for you.
We do. UM. As of an estimated hundred million to
four hundred million frogs were exported as food every year
(11:24):
around the world. UM. But it is hard to track
outside of imports and exports and like legal farms. UM.
In the early two thousands, the United Nations estimated that
as many as a billion wild frogs were being caught
for food every year. Wow. Yeah wow um. According to
one source I found, the French consumer estimated one hundred
and sixty million frog legs annually, and Indonesia makes up
(11:48):
eight of the European import market. The US is the
second largest importer, with around two thousand, two hundred and
eighty tons of legs per year. We can see about
the supply a year. But according to some things I
read again, we are set to surpass France and Belgium
to become the largest consumers of frog lugs. Oh wow uh.
(12:09):
Those numbers have to have been from before Indonesia. UM
band from before, which is when Indonesia put kind of
a crackdown on exports. UM. But hoofta, yeah, I think
that the numbers of importation are still about the same
from wherever they're coming from. Yes, by the end of
(12:32):
the tents, the frog meat market was worth about forty
million dollars around the world. And just to give you
an idea of like a like an example of some
of these wild harvesting operations UM in Turkey, um in
in commercial wild harvesting operations UM as of harvesters sometimes
collected as many as three thousand frogs in a single night,
(12:56):
like per person UM. That's about hundred and thirty pounds
or sixty kilo's worth of frogs worth up to five
dollars and fifty cents a pound. Wow. Um, it's a
big industry. UM speaking of, there are frog leg festivals UM.
One of them is in the US in Fellsmere, Florida.
(13:17):
Every January that's about an hour outside of Orlando. Three
will be its thirty second year. UM. They offer deep
fried frog legs and gatortail bites, and you can add
grits and cole slaw and hush puppies to make it
a dinner. During the pandemic, they've offered a drive through
pickup option. UM. It's recorded some eighty thousand attendees in
(13:37):
a single year, serving some seven thousand pounds of frog legs. WHOA,
yeah yeah. There's also one every July in France outside
of um Anger, which serves up some eighty thousand frogs
(14:00):
every year to some ten thousand attendees. UM as they
were still mostly imparted from Indonesia, and interestingly, for for
both of these festivals, they didn't begin because frog legs
are like some incredibly common dish in the region, but
rather because sometime during the nineteen nineties the organizers thought
(14:24):
it would be like an unusual tourist attraction, and it
has turned out to be so. UM Another in France,
um in battel Um does come out of a local
tradition of frog farming UM, having been founded by a
local restaurantur and farmer. The festival is run by the
town's brotherhood of frog thigh Tasters. WHOA, WHOA, what sounds serious.
(14:49):
I love the seriousness that that sounds like. Um yes uh.
As of two thousand nine, the festival was hosting some
twenty thousand attendees serving up to seven metric tons of
frog legs. Um saute aid with all manner of French
sauces or in kiche, in torts, in omelets, in castlets,
(15:11):
in soufle, in grotin, and in pizza. I love that
the frogs also are imported. Um. Yeah, also chocolate frogs
always always um. Up to one third of the amphibian
(15:31):
population are on the verge of extinction yep uh. And
this isn't entirely due to the overharvesting of frogs, but
frogs in general are a sort of like litmus species,
as sort of canary in a coal mine for environmental
changes in our fresh water ways. Um. You know, frogs
are are delicate creatures and they have that tadpole stage
(15:54):
that um that is entirely water dependent, right um. And
so when pollution or climate change or insect die offs
or agricultural land changes or whatever begins affecting an area's ecosystem,
frog populations are some of the first and most visibly affected. Yes. Um.
(16:15):
And kind of a funny slash sad cultural note in here. Um.
In the Muppet Movie, after being asked to be the
spokesperson for a fast food restaurant that specializes in frog legs,
Kermit the Frog says, all I can see are millions
of frogs with tiny crutches. Also, I do not have
(16:39):
a Kermit the Frog impression, so I did not try it.
But you can do the work in your head. You
got it. And speaking of doing the work, we have
a long history to get through with this one. Oh
we do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
(17:10):
thank you. So frogs are quite old, quite um. Some
evidence indicates they've been around for at least two hundred
million years, and that's dinosaur territory, so that's yeah old
evolutionarily speaking, they've been what they are for quite a
long time. But when it comes to the eating of frogs,
(17:31):
and specifically frog legs, recent uncovered evidence suggests that the
British were eating frog legs over ten thousand years ago
in an area close to Stonehenge, and in the way
that the media likes to do there like the British
got there first stop the French, yes um, eating frogs
(17:51):
probably was a convenient option for our hunter gatherer ancestors.
They were like a small, quickly cooked snack field protein
snack like protein snack filled snack leg either way, you
know what I mean? Yeah, yes, thank you, Lauren Umar.
(18:12):
According to the historical record, frog legs were being eaten
on a regular basis in southern China as early as
the first century CE. The Aztecs ate them too. However,
despite current popular understanding, mentions of frog legs eating frog
legs didn't pop up in Europe until the twelfth century
ce UM when they were first mentioned in relation to
(18:34):
the Catholic Church in France. And I don't know how
much I believe this, but apparently the church authorities were
wary of their monks gaining too much weight, so they
decreed that they can consume meat a certain number of
days a year, and to get around this, the monks
determined that frogs counted as fish, so they could eat
(18:55):
frog legs. Whenever. I thought it was gonna be another
lent thing, um, but sure, right either way, whatever it is, Um.
Improverished French folks followed the lead of the church and
people in the Church, and soon frog legs gained an
association with France and French cuisine. In the grand Dictionneio
(19:17):
di Cuisine, written by Alexandre Dumas in the sixteen hundreds
and published later in the eighteen hundreds, someone in South
France was making quote a most considerable fortune with frogs
sent to him from his region, which he fattened and
then sold to the very finest restaurants in Paris, where
this food stuff was very much in fashion. So in
(19:38):
this book from the sixteen hundreds, um with the rise
of hult cuisine in the eighteen hundreds, the use of
frog legs only rose in France, as did they perceived frenchness. Um.
When the French set up colonies in areas like New Orleans,
they brought their taste for frog legs with them, which
helps solidify that perception around the world of France and
(19:59):
frog legs. Frog Legs did grow in popularity in Britain
in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, and it
was considered a delicacy there at the time. In eight
august Escoffier put together a dish that translated was called
flies of the Dawn nymphs for a big party for
the Prince of Wales in London. That's also pretty solid. Yeah,
(20:23):
the dawn and nymphs, nymphs, that's pretty good. Um. The
addition involved imported bullfrogs and they were seasoned with paprika
or paprika herbs, bullion and covered with tarragon and chicken chilly.
It's pretty good. Yeah. According to the Oxford Companion of Food,
(20:44):
Alan Davidson wrote about the more modern disdain the British
have had. I think it's changed, but have had towards
eating frog legs. Quote. Why the idea of eating frog
legs should be repellent to the English in particular is
mildly puzzling. May have something to do with the ugly
to human beings, appearance of the creatures, or the thought
(21:05):
that they emerge all slimy from evil smelling bonds. Okay, ugly, hey, hey,
pardon those things are heck and adorable. I agree, check
yourself right anyway, emerge slimy from evil smelling bonds. I
(21:26):
love this idea that we're like still stung up on
fairy tales you read as children like. Uh well. However,
century British cookbook by Robert May had a recipe for
a pie made with live frogs that would quote cause
much delight and would make women quote skip and shriek.
(21:50):
So I'm sure this is one of those things where like, oh, surprised,
Like it's just a pie crest filled with live animals.
Isn't this fun at a dinner table? Isn't this fun
at a hoot? And everyone runs away screaming fogs everywhere.
In nineteen twelve, tons of frog legs were produced, consumed,
(22:13):
and shipped out of Detroit. Um. Yes, are all together. Obviously,
you can't both consume and ship out. That's not what
we're talking about here, right, Okay, good, good clarity point,
Thank you Annie, thank you. Um. And this was largely
due to the French Canadian population in Detroit or in
that area too. UM. At the time, frog legs were
(22:35):
pretty popular in America. President Cover Cleveland named them his
favorite meal, and by the nineteen forties, or at least
by the nineteen forties, they were a popular appetizer in California. UM,
and I would imagine in several other places. Okay, yep.
Stepping back to the nineteen thirties, the American Frog Canning
Company released a flyer promising some good money for folks
(22:57):
willing to breed giant rocks. The desire for frog meat
outstripped the supply, so this seemed like a pretty solid
business opportunity to a lot of people. That company's founder,
Albert Broll, was determined to develop the frog like industry
here in America. In one portrait in front of their
headquarters in New Orleans, he and his wife are pictured
(23:18):
by a statue statues of frogs whose light of eyes
allegedly glowed red in the night. Wow. Okay, that's that
sounds that sounds like a like a horror it does, Okay,
but I'm excited about it. Good, that's great, Thank you U.
(23:39):
Role promised that for those breeders who entered the frog
like market, the frog breeding market, they would make quite
a profit. And Roll claimed through various stories that his
mother was his inspiration for entering the frog business, so
he had like the story he would tell to try
to get people to join him. He was a top
name in the American frog industry and came up with
(24:00):
products like giant frog gumbo frog a La King barbecue,
Giant bullfrog sandwich is, American Giant bullfog pie, Giant bullfrog oumelets,
and giant bullfrog pineapple salad. Yes, of course, yeah, why not?
Why not? At one point, Broll claimed that someone could
make three hundred sixty billion dollars growing frogs. Yes, okay, yes,
(24:27):
he himself later wrote to an Ohio newspaper it was
quote simply published as I published all other things of
interest to people engaged in the frog business. I think
you will agree with me that such a statement is
so ridiculous upon its face that it could not seriously
influence the judgment of anyone deliberating as to whether or
not he should engage in frog racing. That is quite
(24:49):
the statement. Oh my goodness, that's what a guy. Slippery
like a frog. And and yes, some folks were suspicious
of this claim and of the frog business at large
in the US, calling it a get rich quick scheme.
In fact, in nineteen thirty three, the U. S d
(25:11):
A released this statement. Within the past fifteen years, the
Bureau has received thousands of inquiries concerning frog raising, but
to the present time it has heard of only about
three persons or institutions claiming any degree of success, and
people who got into the field because of things they'd
heard about getting rich sued Southern Industries, which was another
(25:31):
big player in the frog growing industry. After UM, they
still hadn't received money a year in to the frog business. UM.
On top of this, because so many people got in
on it, states like Louisiana put a limit on frog
hunting in the high season of April and May. UM
in the nineteen thirties. Yeah. Um. Commercial farming just isn't
(25:53):
profitable in many areas because of the of the sheer
biological demands of frogs. UM. I found a page from
the Missouri Department of Conservation that was estimating that it
takes like a little over a pound of food to
raise a single less than half a pound bullfrog. Um.
And they note that production costs for frog legs can
(26:16):
be around like twelve dollars and seventy cents a pound
in the US South, whereas imported frog legs are selling
for just three dollars a pound. So that math does
not math. No, does not math at all. No. Um.
There was a huge jump in European demand for frog
(26:41):
legs post World War Two, so much so that Romania's
local frog population went extinct. UM. Yeah, yeah. Frog hunting
saw a resurgence in the US in the nineteen seventies
and eighties, and during the eighties, frog farming was on
the rise in Asia, Europe and Brazil. UH. This coincided
with in the United States and drop in attempts at
(27:04):
farming UM and a rise in imported frogs UM and
also arise in food born illnesses from imported frogs. Supposedly,
Nixon served frog legs at his second inaugural dinner in
nineteen seventy three and Congressman got salmonella poisoning. Oh yeah,
frog legs, Okay yeah. After a significant drop in the
(27:27):
frog population in the nineteen eighties, France band commercial frog
hunting and farming, and yes in similar rules were put
in place around the frog population in Indonesia at the time.
Although Indonesia was the largest exporter in the world of
over five thousand metric tons per year UM, it was
(27:47):
estimated that locals were eating two to seven times as
many as we're being exported UM. It was just wildly
unsustainable UM and something similar happened in India. They were
a big importer of frogs in the nineteen fifties, but
it was hugely detrimental to the local environment and agriculture.
Trade of frogs was banned in that country in nineteen seven, UH,
(28:10):
and the frog population has since recovered. UH. These pushes
have not ended the demand for frog legs though, and
the industry has moved several times in response In response
to to these legal pressures. UM. After Romania and France,
it was India in Bangladesh, and then after that, Yeah,
(28:32):
it was Indonesia. Now I think the industry has mostly
moved to China and Turkey. The globalization of this trade
UM has also, as I talked about a little bit earlier,
introduced wide labeling problems. A study out of France in
tested the DNA of two hundred nine frog leg samples
(28:53):
from supermarkets and found that two hundred and six of
them were mislabeled. Wow. Yeah, m yep UM. And of course,
deep fines haven't always stopped poachers. In two thousand seven,
frog leg ring in France got broken up. UM. The
main dude involved admitted to harvesting over ten thou frogs personally. Yeah.
(29:19):
And right now, there's a little bit of talk about
UM improving UH purposeful farm growing UM. There's talk about
about some advancements in UM science and technology making it
easier to farm frogs um but and in terms of wildcatch,
experts really recommend placing limits on harvesting too, only five
(29:45):
to ten tops of a local population per year and
like only larger adult frogs after mating season. So yep, yep,
which sounds like it would be really tricky to enforce.
U yep. So a lot of ongoing conversations around that,
(30:05):
and I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it. We'll
probably revisit this topic at a later date. But yeah,
I think that's what we have to say about frog
legs for now. It is. We do have some listener
mail for you, though, and we will get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
(30:33):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, we're back with I
knew that one was gonna be tricky. Oh that was wonderful.
You're welcome. It was magnificent. Listeners, you missed my facial expression,
(30:56):
I did, but it was good. Yeah, there was. There
was like a like a bellowing of the cheeks that
was going on. Um, it was really it was high quality.
Thank you for recognizing my brilliance, Lord anytime. Thank you.
M Chad wrote, I haven't written in a minute, but
(31:19):
after listening to the Jello episode this morning, I knew
I had to write in again. I grew up in
Utah as a Mormon for over thirty years, and jello
was definitely part of our culture. I distinctly remember going
to church functions and seeing copious amounts of jello dishes
with varying fruits, nuts, creams, et cetera within or top
of them. Growing up, my mother and grandmother's would always
(31:40):
have some sort of a jellow dish at the dinner table.
The gotoos around my house were lime jello with bottled pears,
the best cherry jello with canned fruit cocktail unless there
was whipped cream on top, and orange jello with shaved
carrots and raisons. Absolutely disgusting. Jello is definitely a ut
Off thing, and although I left Utah and Mormonism several
(32:02):
years ago, my first conditioned thought when invited to get
together is what kind of jellow dish should I bring? Well?
I gotta follow up, what kind of jello dish do
you bring? And yeah, do you bring jellow dishes? Oh?
Heck um, those those three are all ones that I
am personally familiar with UM from my own family experiences,
(32:25):
although we were not Mormon UM. But yeah, yeah, I
forgot about the raisins. I think. Do you agree with
the rankings or the the best the worst? I don't know.
I I like cann Like as a child, I loved
canned fruit cocktails so much that anything with it I
(32:47):
was really into UM. I think more often. Yeah, definitely
the orange jello was shaved carrots and raisins. I wouldn't
say it's I personally don't find it out solutely disgusting,
but it's on the lower end of the ranking. I
would love to see a Jella ranking from you, Lauren,
just scale. Yes, I am really bad at ranking. I
(33:12):
know that you have like top whatever lists of everything
all the time, and they're very intricate and really well
thought out. Like I my brain like doesn't really work
in sets like that. Like it's kind of like it's
all good everything, it's great. I don't know what. Why
are you asking me? That's a good way to be. Yeah,
I don't know, but it's nice to have. Again, I
love a specific opinion absolutely. Now I just want more
(33:37):
Jella molds. Okay, alright, uh Red wrote I just wanted
to send a quick letter about your recent lemonade episode.
It was great and made me really want a glass
of lemonade. You are totally right that in America, lemonade
is a much bigger deal in the South than in
the North. I've lived in many different parts of the North,
but I have never heard anyone up here describe lemonade
(33:57):
with such excitement and endearing love. It's not that lemonade
doesn't exist in the North, but it's just sort of there.
I can't imagine anyone telling me their opinions about where
to go to get the best lemonade in town, like
you were talking about. It definitely made me wonder, well, heck,
what is lemonade like in Georgia? Have I been missing
out on a delicious version of this unremarkable picnic punch
(34:19):
my whole life? I need to get to Atlanta. Also,
it really made me laugh to hear the origin story
of pink lemonade. I didn't know it was associated with
the circus, as it happens. I have recently learned to juggle,
and your podcast is my favorite thing to listen to
when I go practice in the park. So I got
a big kick out of tossing my juggling clubs in
the air while hearing about those wacky circus folks passing
(34:41):
off laundry as lemonade. Side note, if your laundry water
tastes that good, I have many other questions. Yes, I
think that's a fair question. Oh yeah, if no one
noticed and they were all like this daste great mm
(35:03):
hmmm yeah yeah. Yeah. Also, I do love your description
of lemonade in the north because that is quite different
from my experience in the South. Yeah, and it makes
it also makes me curious about lemonade in the North.
Is it just that we like it here because we're
(35:24):
conditioned to like it here more or is it one
like truly? I think maybe we just have more options.
It sounds like um here in the South. Yeah, it's
hard to I mean, more research is necessary mm hm yes,
lemonade research. And you know, we'll just have to go
visit you. You've come visit us, and we compare lemonade
(35:45):
and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also for learning to juggle, um,
I I can juggle balls, but not pens. I mostly
just hit myself in the face with pins. Uh, So
I haven't gotten very far with that. But um, yes, dangerous, yes, dangerous. Um,
but I do know if you excellent jugglers around Atlanta.
(36:07):
I Annie, I like hate saying this out loud because
I know where your brain is about to go. But
like I kind of hang out with a lot of clowns. Yep,
clowns aren't scary. Clowns are not scary. Clowns can Clowns
can be scary. The scary clown is an excellent horror trope.
(36:29):
But um, but no, no, um, the circus community around
here is really great. Um Uh. There's a segment of
humans who go into into hospitals and um, retirement homes
and do work. They're through clowning and it's really beautiful. Um.
So so yeah, come come everyone, come to Atlanta, try
(36:51):
the lemonade, watch watch some circus acts. I totally agree,
and I love that, But that is quite a specific,
like say, come to Atlanta, try and eliminate and watch
the circus. Yeah, they're not hiring me for the tourism
(37:12):
board anytime soon, are they. Well that's that's their loss.
That is their loss, because I think there's people that
would love that. I agree, yes, thank you, I agree, Well,
thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write us that you can our
email us hello at saber pod dot com. We are
(37:32):
also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Saber is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(37:53):
your wayw
Hello, and welcome to Save for Protection of I Heart Radio.
I'm Anny Reese and I'm Lauren Vogelbaum, and today we
have an episode for you about frog legs. Yeah. This
one goes places just like frogs do. Oh yeah, hey
yeah absolutely it does. Oh I let frogs are so
cute like that was That was the most upsetting wonderful
(00:30):
part about this research is I was like, every time
I opened a page there was a picture of a frog,
and I was like, look about adorable frog. It's gonna
be tasty. Mm hmm. It's a strange place to be.
It's a mixed bag of emotions, for sure. For sure,
(00:54):
I do have a lot of The more I thought
about it, the more I'm like, I've had a lot
of frog memories throughout my life. Not necessary frog legs, um,
but I grew up near a pond and I would
just remember catching tadpoles when I was a kid nothing
and I love doing that. I played a lot of
leap frog as a kid. And then recently I was
(01:16):
fortunate enough to get to go to a beach house
with some friends of mine and when we were coming back,
we were almost back to Atlanta, and this little frog
just jumps onto the windshield out of nowhere inside the car.
Oh and I've never seen like such quick panic that
is also quickly contained because we're gonna move in vehicle.
(01:36):
But it was a tiny, that little sweet frog. Um.
But we all panicked and then we're like, stay calm,
stay calm, and the frog just kept bouncing and trying
to get out of the windshield and bounce to one
end and to the other end, to the one end.
And then we got back to Atlanta. I let the
frog out. I put some water on it and then
let it go. And I hope if you're out there
frog and you're listening to podcast, won't congrats, because this
(02:00):
is probably not your episode. You should be listening to
you now. Yeah, no, no no, no, no no, turn this one off, buddy.
Yeah you heard the story, and now that's the end.
But then I recently got to go back. Another frog
got in the car, and I was like trying to
get back to see his buddy make it back. Unfortunately,
(02:20):
Oh I'm sorry. Well the sun oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
I know it can be very warm, very too warm
for frogs in cars. Yeah, it was. It was um.
And then you know, just because I have to throw
a Star Wars difference and every time I came. They're
very popular and fan fiction right now because of the
whole group. Yeah, but all that aside. I've had frog
(02:45):
legs once, ostensibly a food show. Ye. How what was
your frog leg eating experience? Like? I liked them, um,
And that's honestly, I probably didn't get the best frog legs.
I remember liking them and thinking they tasted like chicken,
(03:05):
But it wasn't a super memorable experience for me when
when I got them. I thought it would be because
frog legs was a new thing to me, is it.
I was pretty young when this happened. Um, But yeah,
I just basically remember m taste good. Yeah. Yeah, I
think I possibly had them as a kid at some point,
but for sure I ate them. A few years ago
(03:29):
here in Atlanta, there's a like Vietnamese slash Southern restaurant
called Poor Calvin's Um kind of downtown and it's great um.
And yeah, they had a they had a really good
like like fried frog legs, like deep fried frog legs
appetizer and they were lovely. I was like, well, this
is delicious and I'm into it. That sounds so good. Yeah, um. Uh,
(03:55):
I have seen them on menus around town. Other than that, though,
I think um jen Chans and abbage Town had like
a lemon pepper wet frog legs situation recently. I'm like,
that's so good. Um there there is a national frog
leg holiday here in the United States. It's February. Let
(04:17):
that sink in a sec. It only happens on leap here. Uh.
I was like, are they just? Is that some weird
like she that frog legs only get one every four years? Okay,
all right. I will also say another lovely thing in
(04:42):
doing this reading was that that there are so many puns,
just so many. Oh yes, so many reporters enjoying so
many puns. It's a beautiful thing to see. It is
just like frogs and then we eat them. So I
guess this brings us to question, sure, sure, frog legs,
(05:06):
what are they? Well, frog legs are the hind legs
of certain species of frogs, harvested and skinned and bony
feet removed, then cooked up however you like, often on
the bone in stews or sauteed or grilled or breaded
and deep fried. The texture and taste is basically like
(05:28):
chicken wing flats. Yeah, um like tender and moist with
a little bit of chew um and a flavor like
a like a chicken slash mild seafood crossover. Yeah. They
look like like just really cute little ba donks. Every
time I see them, I'm just like, am I going
to eat that cute little bit donk? And then I'm like, yeah,
I am, Yeah, that's that's what's about to happen. Um.
(05:51):
They're like, um, they're like the chicken of the pond.
Oh if no one's taking that, Lauren, that's pretty good,
thank you. Yeah, yeah, that's definitely a frog leg producers
(06:13):
get in touch um uh. Frogs um broadly are amphibians
that live in and around bodies of usually fresh water. UM.
They have a permeable skin that water and oxygen can
pass through, so yeah, they have to have a lot
of water in their environments. UM frogs are specialized to
(06:35):
be powerful jumpers thanks to their beef behind legs, which
helps them move quickly when catching prey and or avoiding
being caught. Um. The muscles in their hind legs are
really the only like meaty part of a frog and
can account for like of a frog's mass. Whoa yeah, yeah. Um.
(06:57):
But even accounting for that, like of frogs are really small. Um. Oh,
you just got so excited. I I agree. I like
have you seen the video of the little frogs that
are too little to jump good? Like they're so tiny
that they don't have a good like sense of balance
developed in their inner frog ear or however that works,
(07:17):
and they just they just never land right because they're
too small. Yeah, it's o um Okay, back to ostensibly
a food show here we go. Um. Yes, of the
over seven thousand species of frogs around the world, only
a few grow large enough to be considered like worth
(07:38):
catching and eating. Um. Also, like, lots of them secrete
toxins from their skin to discourage predators that happened to
get ahold of them despite their power legs. Um, and
you generally don't want to mess with that. Also. Also,
although frogs can be farmed kind of um, not profitably, uh,
they're they're often wild caught and over how ting has
(08:00):
seriously endangered the populations of a few species that have
been like traditionally used for food. So a handful of
species are eaten around the world, maybe like fifteen to
twenty um. But ideally as a consumer in like the
United States or Europe especially UM you're looking at either
the American bullfrog or UM the European common frog also
(08:23):
called UM the European edible frog. UM. Bullfrogs are like
a little bit bigger, like three to six inches that's
like eight to fifteen centimeters from snout to vent um
no no nose to but yeah, versus like two to
five inches or five to eleven centimeters for the common frog. UM.
Either way, their their legs outstretched will be about that long.
(08:47):
Frog is a pretty like neutrally flavored meat, so it's
a great base for strong flavors UM heavy spices like garlic,
butter um. If you are into eating things off the
bone own um, there really is a certain satisfaction to it. Yes, agreed,
local harvest of frogs tends to be fairly regulated UM.
(09:10):
In the United States, for example, like most of the
fifty states do have specific catch limits that are like
a dozen or so per person per day at most
during particular seasons. UM. And partially because of this and
a bunch of other issues we're going to talk about
at length, UM, as a consumer, it can be difficult
(09:31):
to make educated choices when you're sourcing frog legs because
exported products are often just the skinned, frozen legs, which
is good for preventing the spread of microbes that can
cause infection of local animals if they get into local waterways,
but also means that you can't visually identify the species
(09:53):
that you're buying. Um. And like with many other like
seafood related products, there's a lot of miss un you're
standing to deliberate dishonesty in labeling. Um. It does not
help that one of the species that's doing okay is
literally called the edible frog. So you know, someone's like, oh,
what kind of frog is this? Oh, it's an edible frog. Uh.
(10:18):
It's really up to local governments to regulate and codify
harvesting and sales practices, and many of them have done that. Yeah,
but there is still work to be done. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Um.
Well what about the nutrition? Uh well, it perhaps obviously
depends on exactly how much garlic butter Uh you're using here? Um,
(10:42):
but but frog meat is uh, you know, chocolate protein,
fairly lean, got a decent spread of micronutrients. Um. Uh,
eat a vegetable that isn't garlic butter. If you insist, Lauren.
If you insist, well, car like butter, is its own
(11:02):
food group, I say, but it is all right. Well
what we do I've got I'm messing up, I'm messing
up my questions, Lauren. We do have some numbers for you.
We do. UM. As of an estimated hundred million to
four hundred million frogs were exported as food every year
(11:24):
around the world. UM. But it is hard to track
outside of imports and exports and like legal farms. UM.
In the early two thousands, the United Nations estimated that
as many as a billion wild frogs were being caught
for food every year. Wow. Yeah wow um. According to
one source I found, the French consumer estimated one hundred
and sixty million frog legs annually, and Indonesia makes up
(11:48):
eight of the European import market. The US is the
second largest importer, with around two thousand, two hundred and
eighty tons of legs per year. We can see about
the supply a year. But according to some things I
read again, we are set to surpass France and Belgium
to become the largest consumers of frog lugs. Oh wow uh.
(12:09):
Those numbers have to have been from before Indonesia. UM
band from before, which is when Indonesia put kind of
a crackdown on exports. UM. But hoofta, yeah, I think
that the numbers of importation are still about the same
from wherever they're coming from. Yes, by the end of
(12:32):
the tents, the frog meat market was worth about forty
million dollars around the world. And just to give you
an idea of like a like an example of some
of these wild harvesting operations UM in Turkey, um in
in commercial wild harvesting operations UM as of harvesters sometimes
collected as many as three thousand frogs in a single night,
(12:56):
like per person UM. That's about hundred and thirty pounds
or sixty kilo's worth of frogs worth up to five
dollars and fifty cents a pound. Wow. Um, it's a
big industry. UM speaking of, there are frog leg festivals UM.
One of them is in the US in Fellsmere, Florida.
(13:17):
Every January that's about an hour outside of Orlando. Three
will be its thirty second year. UM. They offer deep
fried frog legs and gatortail bites, and you can add
grits and cole slaw and hush puppies to make it
a dinner. During the pandemic, they've offered a drive through
pickup option. UM. It's recorded some eighty thousand attendees in
(13:37):
a single year, serving some seven thousand pounds of frog legs. WHOA,
yeah yeah. There's also one every July in France outside
of um Anger, which serves up some eighty thousand frogs
(14:00):
every year to some ten thousand attendees. UM as they
were still mostly imparted from Indonesia, and interestingly, for for
both of these festivals, they didn't begin because frog legs
are like some incredibly common dish in the region, but
rather because sometime during the nineteen nineties the organizers thought
(14:24):
it would be like an unusual tourist attraction, and it
has turned out to be so. UM Another in France,
um in battel Um does come out of a local
tradition of frog farming UM, having been founded by a
local restaurantur and farmer. The festival is run by the
town's brotherhood of frog thigh Tasters. WHOA, WHOA, what sounds serious.
(14:49):
I love the seriousness that that sounds like. Um yes uh.
As of two thousand nine, the festival was hosting some
twenty thousand attendees serving up to seven metric tons of
frog legs. Um saute aid with all manner of French
sauces or in kiche, in torts, in omelets, in castlets,
(15:11):
in soufle, in grotin, and in pizza. I love that
the frogs also are imported. Um. Yeah, also chocolate frogs
always always um. Up to one third of the amphibian
(15:31):
population are on the verge of extinction yep uh. And
this isn't entirely due to the overharvesting of frogs, but
frogs in general are a sort of like litmus species,
as sort of canary in a coal mine for environmental
changes in our fresh water ways. Um. You know, frogs
are are delicate creatures and they have that tadpole stage
(15:54):
that um that is entirely water dependent, right um. And
so when pollution or climate change or insect die offs
or agricultural land changes or whatever begins affecting an area's ecosystem,
frog populations are some of the first and most visibly affected. Yes. Um.
(16:15):
And kind of a funny slash sad cultural note in here. Um.
In the Muppet Movie, after being asked to be the
spokesperson for a fast food restaurant that specializes in frog legs,
Kermit the Frog says, all I can see are millions
of frogs with tiny crutches. Also, I do not have
(16:39):
a Kermit the Frog impression, so I did not try it.
But you can do the work in your head. You
got it. And speaking of doing the work, we have
a long history to get through with this one. Oh
we do, and we are going to get into that
as soon as we get back from a quick break
for a word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes,
(17:10):
thank you. So frogs are quite old, quite um. Some
evidence indicates they've been around for at least two hundred
million years, and that's dinosaur territory, so that's yeah old
evolutionarily speaking, they've been what they are for quite a
long time. But when it comes to the eating of frogs,
(17:31):
and specifically frog legs, recent uncovered evidence suggests that the
British were eating frog legs over ten thousand years ago
in an area close to Stonehenge, and in the way
that the media likes to do there like the British
got there first stop the French, yes um, eating frogs
(17:51):
probably was a convenient option for our hunter gatherer ancestors.
They were like a small, quickly cooked snack field protein
snack like protein snack filled snack leg either way, you
know what I mean? Yeah, yes, thank you, Lauren Umar.
(18:12):
According to the historical record, frog legs were being eaten
on a regular basis in southern China as early as
the first century CE. The Aztecs ate them too. However,
despite current popular understanding, mentions of frog legs eating frog
legs didn't pop up in Europe until the twelfth century
ce UM when they were first mentioned in relation to
(18:34):
the Catholic Church in France. And I don't know how
much I believe this, but apparently the church authorities were
wary of their monks gaining too much weight, so they
decreed that they can consume meat a certain number of
days a year, and to get around this, the monks
determined that frogs counted as fish, so they could eat
(18:55):
frog legs. Whenever. I thought it was gonna be another
lent thing, um, but sure, right either way, whatever it is, Um.
Improverished French folks followed the lead of the church and
people in the Church, and soon frog legs gained an
association with France and French cuisine. In the grand Dictionneio
(19:17):
di Cuisine, written by Alexandre Dumas in the sixteen hundreds
and published later in the eighteen hundreds, someone in South
France was making quote a most considerable fortune with frogs
sent to him from his region, which he fattened and
then sold to the very finest restaurants in Paris, where
this food stuff was very much in fashion. So in
(19:38):
this book from the sixteen hundreds, um with the rise
of hult cuisine in the eighteen hundreds, the use of
frog legs only rose in France, as did they perceived frenchness. Um.
When the French set up colonies in areas like New Orleans,
they brought their taste for frog legs with them, which
helps solidify that perception around the world of France and
(19:59):
frog legs. Frog Legs did grow in popularity in Britain
in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds, and it
was considered a delicacy there at the time. In eight
august Escoffier put together a dish that translated was called
flies of the Dawn nymphs for a big party for
the Prince of Wales in London. That's also pretty solid. Yeah,
(20:23):
the dawn and nymphs, nymphs, that's pretty good. Um. The
addition involved imported bullfrogs and they were seasoned with paprika
or paprika herbs, bullion and covered with tarragon and chicken chilly.
It's pretty good. Yeah. According to the Oxford Companion of Food,
(20:44):
Alan Davidson wrote about the more modern disdain the British
have had. I think it's changed, but have had towards
eating frog legs. Quote. Why the idea of eating frog
legs should be repellent to the English in particular is
mildly puzzling. May have something to do with the ugly
to human beings, appearance of the creatures, or the thought
(21:05):
that they emerge all slimy from evil smelling bonds. Okay, ugly, hey, hey,
pardon those things are heck and adorable. I agree, check
yourself right anyway, emerge slimy from evil smelling bonds. I
(21:26):
love this idea that we're like still stung up on
fairy tales you read as children like. Uh well. However,
century British cookbook by Robert May had a recipe for
a pie made with live frogs that would quote cause
much delight and would make women quote skip and shriek.
(21:50):
So I'm sure this is one of those things where like, oh, surprised,
Like it's just a pie crest filled with live animals.
Isn't this fun at a dinner table? Isn't this fun
at a hoot? And everyone runs away screaming fogs everywhere.
In nineteen twelve, tons of frog legs were produced, consumed,
(22:13):
and shipped out of Detroit. Um. Yes, are all together. Obviously,
you can't both consume and ship out. That's not what
we're talking about here, right, Okay, good, good clarity point,
Thank you Annie, thank you. Um. And this was largely
due to the French Canadian population in Detroit or in
that area too. UM. At the time, frog legs were
(22:35):
pretty popular in America. President Cover Cleveland named them his
favorite meal, and by the nineteen forties, or at least
by the nineteen forties, they were a popular appetizer in California. UM,
and I would imagine in several other places. Okay, yep.
Stepping back to the nineteen thirties, the American Frog Canning
Company released a flyer promising some good money for folks
(22:57):
willing to breed giant rocks. The desire for frog meat
outstripped the supply, so this seemed like a pretty solid
business opportunity to a lot of people. That company's founder,
Albert Broll, was determined to develop the frog like industry
here in America. In one portrait in front of their
headquarters in New Orleans, he and his wife are pictured
(23:18):
by a statue statues of frogs whose light of eyes
allegedly glowed red in the night. Wow. Okay, that's that
sounds that sounds like a like a horror it does, Okay,
but I'm excited about it. Good, that's great, Thank you U.
(23:39):
Role promised that for those breeders who entered the frog
like market, the frog breeding market, they would make quite
a profit. And Roll claimed through various stories that his
mother was his inspiration for entering the frog business, so
he had like the story he would tell to try
to get people to join him. He was a top
name in the American frog industry and came up with
(24:00):
products like giant frog gumbo frog a La King barbecue,
Giant bullfrog sandwich is, American Giant bullfog pie, Giant bullfrog oumelets,
and giant bullfrog pineapple salad. Yes, of course, yeah, why not?
Why not? At one point, Broll claimed that someone could
make three hundred sixty billion dollars growing frogs. Yes, okay, yes,
(24:27):
he himself later wrote to an Ohio newspaper it was
quote simply published as I published all other things of
interest to people engaged in the frog business. I think
you will agree with me that such a statement is
so ridiculous upon its face that it could not seriously
influence the judgment of anyone deliberating as to whether or
not he should engage in frog racing. That is quite
(24:49):
the statement. Oh my goodness, that's what a guy. Slippery
like a frog. And and yes, some folks were suspicious
of this claim and of the frog business at large
in the US, calling it a get rich quick scheme.
In fact, in nineteen thirty three, the U. S d
(25:11):
A released this statement. Within the past fifteen years, the
Bureau has received thousands of inquiries concerning frog raising, but
to the present time it has heard of only about
three persons or institutions claiming any degree of success, and
people who got into the field because of things they'd
heard about getting rich sued Southern Industries, which was another
(25:31):
big player in the frog growing industry. After UM, they
still hadn't received money a year in to the frog business. UM.
On top of this, because so many people got in
on it, states like Louisiana put a limit on frog
hunting in the high season of April and May. UM
in the nineteen thirties. Yeah. Um. Commercial farming just isn't
(25:53):
profitable in many areas because of the of the sheer
biological demands of frogs. UM. I found a page from
the Missouri Department of Conservation that was estimating that it
takes like a little over a pound of food to
raise a single less than half a pound bullfrog. Um.
And they note that production costs for frog legs can
(26:16):
be around like twelve dollars and seventy cents a pound
in the US South, whereas imported frog legs are selling
for just three dollars a pound. So that math does
not math. No, does not math at all. No. Um.
There was a huge jump in European demand for frog
(26:41):
legs post World War Two, so much so that Romania's
local frog population went extinct. UM. Yeah, yeah. Frog hunting
saw a resurgence in the US in the nineteen seventies
and eighties, and during the eighties, frog farming was on
the rise in Asia, Europe and Brazil. UH. This coincided
with in the United States and drop in attempts at
(27:04):
farming UM and a rise in imported frogs UM and
also arise in food born illnesses from imported frogs. Supposedly,
Nixon served frog legs at his second inaugural dinner in
nineteen seventy three and Congressman got salmonella poisoning. Oh yeah,
frog legs, Okay yeah. After a significant drop in the
(27:27):
frog population in the nineteen eighties, France band commercial frog
hunting and farming, and yes in similar rules were put
in place around the frog population in Indonesia at the time.
Although Indonesia was the largest exporter in the world of
over five thousand metric tons per year UM, it was
(27:47):
estimated that locals were eating two to seven times as
many as we're being exported UM. It was just wildly
unsustainable UM and something similar happened in India. They were
a big importer of frogs in the nineteen fifties, but
it was hugely detrimental to the local environment and agriculture.
Trade of frogs was banned in that country in nineteen seven, UH,
(28:10):
and the frog population has since recovered. UH. These pushes
have not ended the demand for frog legs though, and
the industry has moved several times in response In response
to to these legal pressures. UM. After Romania and France,
it was India in Bangladesh, and then after that, Yeah,
(28:32):
it was Indonesia. Now I think the industry has mostly
moved to China and Turkey. The globalization of this trade
UM has also, as I talked about a little bit earlier,
introduced wide labeling problems. A study out of France in
tested the DNA of two hundred nine frog leg samples
(28:53):
from supermarkets and found that two hundred and six of
them were mislabeled. Wow. Yeah, m yep UM. And of course,
deep fines haven't always stopped poachers. In two thousand seven,
frog leg ring in France got broken up. UM. The
main dude involved admitted to harvesting over ten thou frogs personally. Yeah.
(29:19):
And right now, there's a little bit of talk about
UM improving UH purposeful farm growing UM. There's talk about
about some advancements in UM science and technology making it
easier to farm frogs um but and in terms of wildcatch,
experts really recommend placing limits on harvesting too, only five
(29:45):
to ten tops of a local population per year and
like only larger adult frogs after mating season. So yep, yep,
which sounds like it would be really tricky to enforce.
U yep. So a lot of ongoing conversations around that,
(30:05):
and I'm sure we'll be hearing more about it. We'll
probably revisit this topic at a later date. But yeah,
I think that's what we have to say about frog
legs for now. It is. We do have some listener
mail for you, though, and we will get into that
as soon as we get back from one more quick
break for a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
(30:33):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, we're back with I
knew that one was gonna be tricky. Oh that was wonderful.
You're welcome. It was magnificent. Listeners, you missed my facial expression,
(30:56):
I did, but it was good. Yeah, there was. There
was like a like a bellowing of the cheeks that
was going on. Um, it was really it was high quality.
Thank you for recognizing my brilliance, Lord anytime. Thank you.
M Chad wrote, I haven't written in a minute, but
(31:19):
after listening to the Jello episode this morning, I knew
I had to write in again. I grew up in
Utah as a Mormon for over thirty years, and jello
was definitely part of our culture. I distinctly remember going
to church functions and seeing copious amounts of jello dishes
with varying fruits, nuts, creams, et cetera within or top
of them. Growing up, my mother and grandmother's would always
(31:40):
have some sort of a jellow dish at the dinner table.
The gotoos around my house were lime jello with bottled pears,
the best cherry jello with canned fruit cocktail unless there
was whipped cream on top, and orange jello with shaved
carrots and raisons. Absolutely disgusting. Jello is definitely a ut
Off thing, and although I left Utah and Mormonism several
(32:02):
years ago, my first conditioned thought when invited to get
together is what kind of jellow dish should I bring? Well?
I gotta follow up, what kind of jello dish do
you bring? And yeah, do you bring jellow dishes? Oh?
Heck um, those those three are all ones that I
am personally familiar with UM from my own family experiences,
(32:25):
although we were not Mormon UM. But yeah, yeah, I
forgot about the raisins. I think. Do you agree with
the rankings or the the best the worst? I don't know.
I I like cann Like as a child, I loved
canned fruit cocktails so much that anything with it I
(32:47):
was really into UM. I think more often. Yeah, definitely
the orange jello was shaved carrots and raisins. I wouldn't
say it's I personally don't find it out solutely disgusting,
but it's on the lower end of the ranking. I
would love to see a Jella ranking from you, Lauren,
just scale. Yes, I am really bad at ranking. I
(33:12):
know that you have like top whatever lists of everything
all the time, and they're very intricate and really well
thought out. Like I my brain like doesn't really work
in sets like that. Like it's kind of like it's
all good everything, it's great. I don't know what. Why
are you asking me? That's a good way to be. Yeah,
I don't know, but it's nice to have. Again, I
love a specific opinion absolutely. Now I just want more
(33:37):
Jella molds. Okay, alright, uh Red wrote I just wanted
to send a quick letter about your recent lemonade episode.
It was great and made me really want a glass
of lemonade. You are totally right that in America, lemonade
is a much bigger deal in the South than in
the North. I've lived in many different parts of the North,
but I have never heard anyone up here describe lemonade
(33:57):
with such excitement and endearing love. It's not that lemonade
doesn't exist in the North, but it's just sort of there.
I can't imagine anyone telling me their opinions about where
to go to get the best lemonade in town, like
you were talking about. It definitely made me wonder, well, heck,
what is lemonade like in Georgia? Have I been missing
out on a delicious version of this unremarkable picnic punch
(34:19):
my whole life? I need to get to Atlanta. Also,
it really made me laugh to hear the origin story
of pink lemonade. I didn't know it was associated with
the circus, as it happens. I have recently learned to juggle,
and your podcast is my favorite thing to listen to
when I go practice in the park. So I got
a big kick out of tossing my juggling clubs in
the air while hearing about those wacky circus folks passing
(34:41):
off laundry as lemonade. Side note, if your laundry water
tastes that good, I have many other questions. Yes, I
think that's a fair question. Oh yeah, if no one
noticed and they were all like this daste great mm
(35:03):
hmmm yeah yeah. Yeah. Also, I do love your description
of lemonade in the north because that is quite different
from my experience in the South. Yeah, and it makes
it also makes me curious about lemonade in the North.
Is it just that we like it here because we're
(35:24):
conditioned to like it here more or is it one
like truly? I think maybe we just have more options.
It sounds like um here in the South. Yeah, it's
hard to I mean, more research is necessary mm hm yes,
lemonade research. And you know, we'll just have to go
visit you. You've come visit us, and we compare lemonade
(35:45):
and that's it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also for learning to juggle, um,
I I can juggle balls, but not pens. I mostly
just hit myself in the face with pins. Uh, So
I haven't gotten very far with that. But um, yes, dangerous, yes, dangerous. Um,
but I do know if you excellent jugglers around Atlanta.
(36:07):
I Annie, I like hate saying this out loud because
I know where your brain is about to go. But
like I kind of hang out with a lot of clowns. Yep,
clowns aren't scary. Clowns are not scary. Clowns can Clowns
can be scary. The scary clown is an excellent horror trope.
(36:29):
But um, but no, no, um, the circus community around
here is really great. Um Uh. There's a segment of
humans who go into into hospitals and um, retirement homes
and do work. They're through clowning and it's really beautiful. Um.
So so yeah, come come everyone, come to Atlanta, try
(36:51):
the lemonade, watch watch some circus acts. I totally agree,
and I love that, But that is quite a specific,
like say, come to Atlanta, try and eliminate and watch
the circus. Yeah, they're not hiring me for the tourism
(37:12):
board anytime soon, are they. Well that's that's their loss.
That is their loss, because I think there's people that
would love that. I agree, yes, thank you, I agree, Well,
thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write us that you can our
email us hello at saber pod dot com. We are
(37:32):
also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Saber is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagin and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming
(37:53):
your wayw
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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