August 16, 2024 • 37 mins
This succulent desert plant, with pad-like stems and sweet fruit, has historically been propagated in hopes of farming a parasitic insect for dye. Anney and Lauren dig into the botany and history of the prickly pear cactus.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie and I'm mourned vogle bum and today we
have an episode for you about prickly pear cac die.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, yes, and I apologize I sort of veered off
course in this one, Lauren, are normal. This is a
food show, saying, yeah, a little away from me, but
it was so interesting and I feel like it's related.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It is, it is, and it's super fascinating. I feel like, yeah, yeah,
we're going to talk about bug dies.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, it's great and moss a lot of insects in
this episode. And I suppose was there any particular reason
this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Was there?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't know it was some reason. I feel like
super Producer Andrew at one time.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, that is absolutely it, thank you. Yeah, I know
I had remembered that super Producer Andrew had said had
been like have you done it? Like occasionally he suggests
topics for us, and this was one of them. And
ironically the image that he shared was for this prickly
(01:29):
pair cactus candy that had little cartoon drawings of segurro
cacti on it. But that's but that's which I've done
an episode for over on brain Stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But yeah, pricklely bear cactus.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So thank you, thank you super producer Andrew for the
topic suggestion. And hey, happy belated birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Happy belated birthday. Hopefully you got some prickly paar cact candy.
I don't know at some point. Yeah, I've never had it.
I don't think i've seen it though I knew it existed,
but yeah, I had it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I've definitely seen it in markets. I have never purchased
it myself because I was always like, what would I
do with that? And it just for some reason has
never been the frequently if I see something I don't
recognize in a produce section, I'm like, Okay, I'm buying
that and I'm going to figure out what to do
with it. And its number just hasn't come up yet.
But I know I've had it as a flavoring in
(02:36):
drinks like a like like a lemonade or a margarita
or some kind of situation like that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I've definitely seen that on menus. I
want to try it. I feel like I have a
good idea what it tastes like from what I read,
and it sounds it sounds lovely and refreshing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and there's there's a lot of
different varieties to try, so I love I love it
when we give ourselves lots of homework.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yes, especially if it involves trying foods. That's always good.
Mm hm oh.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yes, okay. You can see our previous episode on dragon fruit,
also a cactus type thing.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yes, well, I guess that brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I guess it does.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Prickly pear cactus. What is it?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, prickly pear cactus can refer to a number of
species of cacti, all in the same genus that grow
these big, thick pad like stems and sort of egg
shaped to oblong fruit, both of which are edible. The pads,
which can be anywhere from bright green to bluish gray
in color, are despiked, peeled and chopped, and then eaten
(03:56):
as a vegetable raw or cooked or pickled. Vaguely to asparagus,
but tastes like green beans. Yeah. The fruits are also
despiked and peeled. They'll contain a juicy pulp, usually juicy,
ranging in color from yellow to orange to red to
like deep purple. With these small, dark seeds that can't
be chewed, who are often strained out. The fruits are
(04:19):
sweet and can range in flavor, but tend to be
sort of delicate and kind of melanie to kiwi e.
They're then consumed, however you like fruit, anything from raw
out of hand to juiced to cooked into preserves for
use in all kinds of drinks or sweet or savory
dishes or candies. It's like a it's sort of like
(04:41):
a dragon fruit that just isn't showing off as much.
That's like a little bit more humble. It's it's a
plant that gives you a challenge, but it's like an
oasis in the desert.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I love that. It's it's like being all humble, but
but you want to eat me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, you're gonna have to for that. Yes, it's a
very eat at your own risk kind of plant. Love it,
Oh so yes. The prickly pear is a member of
the cactus family Cactasia, and their genus is Aupentia Aptia.
(05:28):
I don't know. There are some like two hundred ish,
maybe up to three hundred species within the genus, depending
on who you ask. They're native to the semi arid
and desert regions of the Americas, from provinces of Canada
all the way down through parts of Argentina and Chile.
They can range in size and shape from like small
(05:48):
shrub with those pads branching off of and growing up
around each other, to a height of like a couple
feet less than a meter, to a large shrub like
person sized to more like a tree up to twelve
meters or over thirty feet. In the Galapagos, for example,
they have those with like a like thick trunk like
stem off the top of which the pads grow, and
(06:09):
these sort of chains in clusters. And if you've never
seen these, google it. I mean, like maybe not right now,
I don't know what you're up to, but they look
like a Doctor Seuss thing. It's really cool. The plants
do propagate best from cuttings, not seeds. The pads can
be rounder or more oblong, anywhere from a few inches
to over a foot long that's around ten centimeters to
(06:31):
like over thirty Other than their's spines, the skin is smooth.
Different species have like actual spines like these like long thorns,
or merely these spiny little bristles that look like fuzz
poking out from nodes on the skin of the pads.
Those nodes are also where new pads may sprout from.
(06:51):
Both types of spines must be removed before eating, and
should be watched out for while handling the pads, like
unless you really know what you're doing, in which case
I'm not going to tell you what to do, Like,
do not handle any part of the prickly pear cactus
without gloves or other protection before the spines are removed.
Those little bristles can be hard to see and they
(07:13):
are barbed, so they're like a literal pain to remove
from your flesh. Ooh yeah, yeah. The pads will put
off a ray of flowers, mostly along their top edge,
but sometimes on the body, like these big pretty flowers
and shades from yellow to orange to like bright pink.
If pollinated, and they are pretty good atself pollinating, they'll
(07:36):
develop into a sort of egg shaped fruit with a
kind of flat end on the large top side of them. Yeah,
like it would be the bottom of the egg. But anyway. Yeah,
they're anywhere from a couple inches long to maybe over
twice that, like five centimeters plus. They tend to make
the pads look a little bit like these big old
(07:57):
bear claws, but you know, like aigen raided bear claws
because they have too many stubby little fingers on them. Yeah.
The fruit will start out in shades of like white
to green, and then ripen to anywhere from like green
to yellow, orange, red, bright purple, or so deep purple
that they're brown, some combination thereof. Perhaps I understand that
(08:20):
when they're ripe you should just kind of like twist
them off their pads because they're sort of soft, like
avoid tearing them. They also have those spiny bristles that
need to be handled carefully and removed before consuming. The
spines can be pulled off with an implement like tweezers,
or brushed off or burned off. You might see them
(08:40):
sold under the Spanish name tunas. And if you're not
eating them fresh, you'll often pulp or juice them to
remove the seeds before any kind of further processing. But yeah,
oh prickly pear lemonade good like jams or jellies to
put in just anything that you want. Yeah, the juice
is also fermented into alcohol. The seeds themselves can be
(09:03):
ground into a flower and used in baked goods, and
those pads, yes, are used as a vegetable when they're
young and tender, usually harvested in the springtime. I understand
that you should cut those off the plant with a
sharp knife and then can remove those spines, yes, using
implement like tweezers or a vegetable peeler. Yeah, I've read
that there. I haven't had the pads. I've read that
there's something right like the texture of asparagus or maybe
(09:27):
okra like with a bit of slime to them and
just a green vegetable flavor like green beans. I've seen
recipes for the slices fried up with onion and eggs
for breakfast, or maybe simmered into soups and stews, or
the whole pads like grilled as a side dish. You
might see those under the Spanish name nepalus or on
menus as nopolitos. The plant is also used as podder
(09:49):
for cattle and other livestock. Sometimes it's like a low
cost you'd better not try it fencing around tracts of land,
and it's processed for oils that are used in small
care products or SAPs that's used as a thickening agent.
It's also the natural source of a type of parasitic
insect called a cocknile, which produces this bright red pigment
(10:14):
called carmine that's used in everything from paints and dyes
to cosmetics, to microscopic imaging to food products. Yeah, wow, yep,
very briefly, because this is not a carmine episode, as
hard as you tried, Annie, the cocaial insects will embed
(10:36):
themselves in the pads of this cactus and like feed
off of it while they produce eggs. So if you
ever see what looks like like little white dust bunnies
on the surface of a prickly pear pad, that's cocanile.
More on carmine in the history section. M The plants
(10:57):
are also, just to put it out there, like, pretty
ecologically important in the places where they grow natively anyway,
providing shade and shelter and a water source and calories
for just all kinds of different animals.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I really can't wait to hear from listeners about this one.
I'm so excited. What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
By themselves, Both the pads and fruit of the prickly
pear are pretty good for you, you know, some good fiber,
some vitamin C. They'll help fill you up but to
keep you going pear with the protein and some fat,
which sounds delicious. They have been used in traditional medicines
for all kinds of things, all kinds of things, but
save er moato.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yes, yeah, yes, well we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah. Mexico produces around eight hundred metric tons of prickly
pear every year. I think that's the fruit in the pads.
Both they're farmed by some twenty thousand families who make
their living off of the plant, and Mexico does account
for about forty five percent of globalduction, followed by Italy
at around twelve percent and South Africa at about four percent.
(12:05):
These numbers do come from sources with different timelines, and
as with any agricultural product, production can change kind of rapidly.
For example, the industry for prickly pair is just exploding
in Tunisia right now. So some of these numbers are
from like twenty thirteen, some of them are from like
twenty nineteen, and I didn't find comparable numbers from both times,
(12:30):
so I don't know, I don't know numbers. There are
a couple of records listed that in this way that
it seems to me that Guinness Records has just started
kind of farming scientific papers or like trawling scientific papers
(12:51):
for this sort of thing. But okay, so species of
this cactus are the most northerly natively occurring cactus in
the world, and other species are the most invasive cactus
in the world. More on that in the history section
related to the last time that I said that. Yeah, yep,
(13:14):
this is not a number. But my favorite sentence of
the day comes from a paper on prickly pair cactus
from nineteen eighty six. Two sentences technically quote A wide
variety of other animals have been successfully raised on the
cactus pads. These include sheep, pigs, horses, ostriches grown for
their feather plumes, and at least one circus elephant, at
(13:37):
least one at least one not willing to say only one,
not willing to say.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Two, right, can't say for sure, but at least one
circus elephant.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There are a few prickly pair festivals. I saw mentions
of a few that I couldn't track down more details for,
like maybe they're no longer running. So if you've been
to a cool one that we don't mention here, do
tell us about it. But all right. One in Superior,
Arizona is coming up real quick in August twenty fourth.
The day starts early with foraging demonstrations, moving into educational talks,
(14:15):
some food booths, some music and folklorecal dancing. Local restaurants
are featuring some Prickly pair specials including like a lot
of prickly pear sauces and jams on like tasty sounding
dish like ribs like a nice pear sauce on there
Shrimp Tacos. One in Albuquerque, New Mexico is in its
sixth year as of twenty twenty four. Will be happening
(14:37):
on September twenty seventh and twenty eighth. That's a Friday
and Saturday. It'll feature cooking demos, craft workshops including carmine dyeing, Yeah,
some gardening workshops for planting native species, and Prickly Nights
programming on Friday including music and flamenco dancing, plus of
course food and drink. And then another in Scottsdale, Aras
(15:00):
is going to be on October twenty eighth. This year,
it's more education based, with like lots of demonstrations and
taste tests about how to work with prickly pear and
other native plants.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Those all sounds so clear.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Right, oh right. If anyone is in the area and
has the chance to go, I would I would really
love to hear how all the demonstrations are going. And
if you learn something cool.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yes, report back, please please. But I guess this brings
us to our much teased history.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Section about not food kind of it is used as
a food, dye. You weren't that far off base, dude,
I tried, I really did. All right. Yes, we are
going to get into that, but first we're going to
get into a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
We're back sponsored.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes, thank you. So.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Prickly pear cactus is native to the America's records as
far back as sixty five BCE indicate that people were
eating it, though some speculate people were eating it in
the America's up to twenty thousand years ago. Again, that's
one of those things.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, hard to say.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Many early indigenous peoples in these areas farmed and used
this cactus as a food source. The whole thing, the leaves,
the pattles, the fruits as a beverage as well and yes, medicinally,
including the needles. The fruits were roasted, boiled, and dried
made into jams or candies, are harvested for winter, and
(16:41):
they were a good source of water too, and they
were sometimes used as a container, which I love. Oh yeah, yeah,
But these peoples also used the cockonaial dye generated from
the bodies and eggs of an insect that feeds on
the prickly pear cactus. And that dye is yes, karmic
acid and extracted and used in a variety of ways,
(17:02):
including dyeing clothes.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, mictech people and what's now Mexico cultivated prickly pairs
specifically to develop different shades of this dye.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Rights, And there are a lot of legends around this
cactus too. One tells the story of how it essentially
led to the founding what's now Mexico City after the
Mecas witnessed an eagle eating a snake while perched on
a prickly pear cactus. Yes. When the Spanish arrived in
Mexico in the fifteen hundreds and discovered the dye for themselves,
(17:36):
they were immediately enamored with it, shipping clothes died with
it back to Europe. The demand reached such a point
that they started shipping just the die, and the dye
was extremely expensive and the ships that were carrying it
were targets for attack because of that, Spain maintained control
of this dye in Europe for over two hundred and
(17:58):
fifty years before other countries broke through that control and
it became available pretty much around the world. I read
in multiple places the red coats of the British used
this dye at this time.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that's about color. Yeah, that's about the color of carmine.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah. Several European records from the fifteen to sixteen hundreds
made note of indigenous people's eating prickly pear cactus and
or drinking a fermented beverage made with it, often attripting
it to health. They would always say, like, seems like
it's good for your health. Other records are strictly about
(18:34):
the medicinal attributes and uses, like treating burns, for instance.
That was a big one. After cattle were introduced to
the Americas in the sixteen hundreds, this cactus was used
as feed for them and other livestock. In some areas.
It was especially useful during dry seasons or in areas
where it was difficult to grow much else. The plants
(18:56):
themselves were shipped back to Europe too, but it was
a bit of a struggle for a while getting them
to survive the cold and wet climates. Most had never
seen a plant like it ever.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, cactuses in general are native to the Americas, and
so this was basically the first one that made it
back over to Europe. And so people were like whoa, yeah, cool, Okay,
we didn't know that plants came like this rad It
(19:28):
did find some purchase in places like the southern Iberian
Peninsula other areas around the Mediterranean coast. People were hoping
originally to farm cocknil insects for that carmine. It never
really worked out because for whatever reason, the insects did
not thrive in those environments. But yeah, from Spanish territories.
(19:52):
Over the next couple centuries, it was naturalized around the
coast of the Mediterranean, in places like Palestine as a
fencing and for its fruit and where specifically. It is
still something of a national symbol.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Right as Europeans traveled through the Western US. Meanwhile, there
are several accounts you can find around the spines the
quills of some types of cacti causing all sorts of trouble,
sticking in fingers, mouths, or throats, and even, according to
some records, leading to death. Yeah, there are records from
(20:28):
the Lewis and Clark expedition that makes several mentions of
them and the trouble they had with them, if you
want to look it up. Oooh yeah, speaking of trouble,
the story of the prickly paar cactus in Australia is
a different one. According to the written record, the first
known instance of the prickly pair cactus in Australia was
in seventeen eighty eight, and it was introduced primarily to
(20:52):
kickstart their own cocknail dye industry. A few species were
growing by the eighteen forties, but it soon became invasive
and the government had to intervene, beginning with the eighteen
sixty six Prickly Pair Destruction Destruction Act passed by the
New South Wales government. Yes, this act made people responsible
(21:16):
for the destruction of the cacti on their land, which
was not easy. No, No, that was the problem.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I really need to emphasize here how much
of a failure this was because because it became so
invasive and also it definitely no one ever got a
crop car mine.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Out of it, no, no, and people were losing their
land in places they could grow stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like yeah, no, I'm like, we're giggling about it, but
it's it was actually a very serious issue. It was
it really sucked.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It really sucked, and you can find archival pictures of
it and it's it's striking. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So that didn't work.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So the Crown offered a five thousand pounds reward for
anyone who could come up with a way to control
these cacti in nineteen oh one. They doubled it in
nineteen oh seven, an equivalent of about two million Australian
dollars today. Yes. In nineteen twelve, the Prickly Pair Traveling
Commission formed to go around and study the Prickly pair
(22:26):
for potential weaknesses. Again, it's you're a situation but saying
I'm just imagining them with like magnifying glass looking at
these cactime. By the nineteen twenties, the Prickly pair cactus
had overtaken fifty eight million acres, meaning that yeah, this
(22:49):
land was no longer available for agriculture. Controlling the population
became really, really important, and people working on solutions tried
chemicals dangerous to the land, including about thirty thoy tens
each of arsenic pentoxide and Robert's improved pair poison, though
the needs of World War One temporarily put a halt
(23:11):
to all of that because that all got redirected. While
these chemicals did work, they weren't great for the land,
as I said, and they were difficult to implement and
didn't do much to stop the spread of the cacti,
like they might kill some but they still spreading. Yeah, yeah,
But the Commission had another idea up their sleeve. They
(23:34):
found the answer in the form of the Cacto blastis
moth after botanists traveled to the US and we're talking
to botanis there and they were like, you should check
out this moth though from Argentina. So they did, and
they had to import this moth from Argentina pre air
travel and run several tests before distributing ten million eggs
(23:56):
in the nineteen twenties and billions more in.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
The fall years.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And I just want to note here their first test failed,
but they've tried it again. Wow, this could be a
mini series of itself.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Apparently.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yes, the eggs were wrapped in paper quills and a
pin to attach it to the cactus like they had
to be transported carefully, but it works. Nearly seven million
hectares of land was freed up from the cacti by
nineteen thirty two. It's considered a huge success story in
terms of controlling an invasive plant with biological means. The
(24:35):
moth even has a memorial hall named after it in Australia.
Wow in the headlines. I recommend looking at the headlines
because I when I saw it, I was like, I
must know more about this story.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, this, I'll say Australia has the best worst track
record of getting so out of control so quickly. I'm
reminded of the Ostrich Wars, like or I'm sorry, the
EMU wars. Wrong. Giant bird that will kick the guts
out of you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I do recommend looking up the pictures
because the prickly pair cactus had taken over.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It has everywhere it was not to be tamed.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
No, what a story. Well again, thanks for indulging me.
Food show all right. Ostensibly extensibly in the twentieth century,
in Mexico, the population of prickly pear cactus was significantly
impacted by the crop being snatched up and sold to
(25:50):
other markets. In response, there was a slew of efforts
to industrialize and commercialize this industry, including banning the foraging
of the prickly pear cactus in some instances and research
into improving the DNA of the cactus. By nineteen seventy five,
several new varieties were introduced. This is one of those
(26:11):
things though that it sounds like it negatively impacted some
communities that had been harvesting it without.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Messing things up.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Sure, but it also.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Helped that it was like a complicated it worked in
some places and then hurt in other places.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
A lot of it, Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The prickly pair cactus was adopted as Texas's state plant
in nineteen ninety five, and.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Starting in the two thousands, some researchers started really promoting
the adoption of prickly pair for use as a livestock
fodder in the deserts of the Middle East through South Asia,
as Yeah, it can grow better with fewer resources than
lots of other types of fodder plants in those sort
of situations.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, yeah, again, we would love to hear from listeners
who have experience with this cooking it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Oh yes, yes, all of vegetables, all of your recipes.
I you're if you have a method, if you have
a method for despining it. Yes, the one, the one
that I've seen popularized is just like taking a little
bit lighter and like burning off every little every little
(27:31):
node on a fruit.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But wow, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I've also seen people with brushes. I've seen people with tweezers.
I've seen right the vegetable peeler method, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I love it. I love again where humans are like
you couldn't try to keep me from eating you, No, Nope,
I would find a way. I'll do what I have
to do.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I guess that's what we have to say about the
prickly pear cactus for now.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes that we do already have some listener mail for you,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
snool Spiky.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I was desperately trying to follow you on.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That I love it. I think you did a good job.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I took thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Even if you did it, that's all good. Every catch eye.
The spikes are in different place.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
There they are, they are.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You have to watch out for them. You don't always succeed. Yeah,
that's exactly. There you go, There you go. That's the
true meaning. We have two messages about potato salad.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah we do.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Hearing about all of your potato salad thoughts is so good,
so good? Okay, so Bart wrote, you asked for an
Irish perspective on mashed potato salad. So here's my on
the ground experience. It's definitely not the case that all
potato salad here is mash, but it is true that
salads with waxier cubed potatoes are much rarer and treated
(29:33):
with suspicion by some, because we all learn as kids
that under cooked potatoes are dangerous, though we never seem
to be told why. American potato salad tends to lean
into sour and tanky flavors with lots of acid and mustard,
while the coal saws I grew up with were all
mashed and all dominated by creamy, oniony flavors from mayonnaise
(29:56):
and scallions. A more exotic coal saw might reply place
the scallions with fresh parsley, but mustard was just not
a flavor I ever remember encountering. Potato salads were pearly
white with bits of green. Personally, I like to mix
it up and make some more traditional Irish potato salads,
some mayonnaise free, German style ones with oil, vinegar, mustard
and lots of dill, and some American style ones with mayo,
(30:19):
vinegar and mustard. I primarily make potato salad to avoid
throwing out leftover potatoes, so when I have waxier leftovers,
I favor American or German styles, And when the leftovers
are flower rear, I take out my fork, mash them
up and go Irish. It's stunning how tasty a really
simple Irish style potato salad can be. My base recipe
(30:40):
is one and a half tablespoons of mayo for each
one hundred grams of potato, and either one scallion per
one hundred grams, or one tablespooned gentle fresh herbs like parsley, chives,
or dill per one hundred grams, or one teaspoon of
opinionated fresh herbs like tarragon per one hundred grams. If
all else fails, even dried herbs work, but you need
(31:01):
to reduce the amount and add a little more mao
to make it for the dryness. Mind you, If you
boil your potatoes and properly salted water, they're delicious cold
with literally nothing added.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I yeah, see above, Rea, I want to eat potatoes, yes, genuinely, Yeah, yes,
oh yeah, right, Oh this is all great, great, great information. Yeah.
We had a minor debate in the middle of this.
(31:33):
If the word coles law was intentional does that mean
potato salad?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, we did, and either way, love this so good? Yes,
And I love that you mix it up. I like
that you rit you know some days you're feeling one way,
if some days you're feeling another based on ingredients, perhaps,
Oh sure, Yeah, this is fantastic. People can be so
strong and their opinions, which we appreciate. But I like
(32:02):
this too. If you know what today I'm feeling, right,
there's room for all of them. There is, unless you
don't think there are, and then I support you in
your strong.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Opinion, immediate backing it unless it's true.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think it's fine to have a strong opinion it's
this way. I also think it's great to be like,
you know what, I like all these different varieties. Yeah, yeah,
I'm also curious about this. Undercooked potatoes are dangerous. I'm
gonna have to look into that. Oh yeah, I never
heard that as a kid.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh oh, I definitely did. Yeah, you shouldn't eat raw potatoes.
That's a true statement. But I'm pretty I'm pretty sure
that it's due to the fact that if the eyes
have started to produce sprouts, then that that those sprouts
are toxic. But I'm not totally positive, and I probably
(33:05):
shouldn't say anything. We should just do an episode on
potatoes and suss it out.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Now. That is one we have been shying away from.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Oh yes on purpose that No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Know if the ambition has reached that one. Like not
today potatoes, we will do in your orbits, like potato salad, yes,
but not today potatoes.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
All right, Florence wrote catching up on a few episodes,
and with the potato salad and lemon episode being so
close to each other, I had to write in I'm
a Canadian living in London, and most of my friends
here are from all over, including a few Americans. A
last year, we rented a house in Oxford to visit
a manor house nearby, and as we were planning our meals,
they had a barbecue. I offered to make a potato salad.
(33:55):
My French friend was immediately on board. My American friends
not so much. They told me afterwards that none of
them is a fan of that classic. But all of
them were absolutely blown away, and one even asked for
the recipe to cook for her family. It's my ant's
recipe and it's truly the best. Okay, it's as follows.
The zest and juice of half to one lemon to taste,
(34:17):
olive oil, vinegar. I usually use white wine or apple
side or vinegar, old fashioned mustard and salt and pepper.
Emultify the dressing and pour over boiled baby potatoes, skin
on spring onions and arugula, and eat warm. It's absolutely delicious,
with the tang from the lemon and the mustard, the
bitterness from the arugula, and the softness of the potatoes.
(34:39):
We also introduced the non North Americans to s'mores. As
graham crackers are not the easiest to come by, we
decided to try using chocolate hobknobs a sweet oak cookie
with one side coated and chocolate. I might say it
might have been better than the classic s'mores. Also, Hobknobs
could be an interesting episode for you guys. It's a
quintessentially classic biscuit here in the UK, but I'm pretty
(35:01):
certain it was introduced in the nineteen eighties and they
just had a lot of marketing to present it as
a traditional UK sweet. Anyway, looking forward to more episodes
to keep me company while I craft.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Hobnobs. I've never heard of that, but it made me laugh.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Oh, oh, you've never had one. Oh, I've definitely had those. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's one of those biscuits that you kind of
like can't avoid when you're when you're in England.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So somehow I did or maybe I had one and
it just didn't know it was called a hobnob. Who knows.
I'm glad it turned out well. I feel like a
lot of people outside of when I introduce people to
some wars, it's not it doesn't go over well.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, this might This sounds like it was maybe a
little bit less a lot like a little bit less
sweet and so much perhaps and yeah, because right like
having a whole piece of chocolate and a whole marshmallow.
I'm just like, whoa, yeah, I'm hypogcemic. I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I love some mores, but I feel like it's like
halfway in. I'm good, that's it. Yeah, so this maybe
that's what it was. But yes, that would be a
good topic. Definitely, absolutely, Also, this potato salad sounds delicious
to me.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I will generally speaking, that is approximately my recipe for
any kind of salad dressing, more or less like maybe
add some herbs in there, but that's pretty much it.
And it's so good. And I've never thought about putting
it on warm potatoes with arugula, but that sounds amazing.
(36:43):
I'm like mad about how amazing that sounds due to
the fact that I'm not eating it right now.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
We have so many potato salads.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love it. It's fantastics. The best problem it really
really is.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, I all keep the potato salad recipes coming, please, please, please,
Thank you so much for both of these listeners for
writing in. If we would like to write to us,
you can our email us Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter,
Facebook and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of iHeart Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm Annie and I'm mourned vogle bum and today we
have an episode for you about prickly pear cac die.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Yes, yes, and I apologize I sort of veered off
course in this one, Lauren, are normal. This is a
food show, saying, yeah, a little away from me, but
it was so interesting and I feel like it's related.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
It is, it is, and it's super fascinating. I feel like, yeah, yeah,
we're going to talk about bug dies.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yes, it's great and moss a lot of insects in
this episode. And I suppose was there any particular reason
this was on your mind? Lauren?
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Was there?
Speaker 1 (01:02):
I don't know it was some reason. I feel like
super Producer Andrew at one time.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, that is absolutely it, thank you. Yeah, I know
I had remembered that super Producer Andrew had said had
been like have you done it? Like occasionally he suggests
topics for us, and this was one of them. And
ironically the image that he shared was for this prickly
(01:29):
pair cactus candy that had little cartoon drawings of segurro
cacti on it. But that's but that's which I've done
an episode for over on brain Stuff.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
But yeah, pricklely bear cactus.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
So thank you, thank you super producer Andrew for the
topic suggestion. And hey, happy belated birthday.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Happy belated birthday. Hopefully you got some prickly paar cact candy.
I don't know at some point. Yeah, I've never had it.
I don't think i've seen it though I knew it existed,
but yeah, I had it.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
I've definitely seen it in markets. I have never purchased
it myself because I was always like, what would I
do with that? And it just for some reason has
never been the frequently if I see something I don't
recognize in a produce section, I'm like, Okay, I'm buying
that and I'm going to figure out what to do
with it. And its number just hasn't come up yet.
But I know I've had it as a flavoring in
(02:36):
drinks like a like like a lemonade or a margarita
or some kind of situation like that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Hmm. Yeah, yeah, I've definitely seen that on menus. I
want to try it. I feel like I have a
good idea what it tastes like from what I read,
and it sounds it sounds lovely and refreshing.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, and there's there's a lot of
different varieties to try, so I love I love it
when we give ourselves lots of homework.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yes, especially if it involves trying foods. That's always good.
Mm hm oh.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yes, okay. You can see our previous episode on dragon fruit,
also a cactus type thing.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
Yes, well, I guess that brings us to our question.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
I guess it does.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Prickly pear cactus. What is it?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, prickly pear cactus can refer to a number of
species of cacti, all in the same genus that grow
these big, thick pad like stems and sort of egg
shaped to oblong fruit, both of which are edible. The pads,
which can be anywhere from bright green to bluish gray
in color, are despiked, peeled and chopped, and then eaten
(03:56):
as a vegetable raw or cooked or pickled. Vaguely to asparagus,
but tastes like green beans. Yeah. The fruits are also
despiked and peeled. They'll contain a juicy pulp, usually juicy,
ranging in color from yellow to orange to red to
like deep purple. With these small, dark seeds that can't
be chewed, who are often strained out. The fruits are
(04:19):
sweet and can range in flavor, but tend to be
sort of delicate and kind of melanie to kiwi e.
They're then consumed, however you like fruit, anything from raw
out of hand to juiced to cooked into preserves for
use in all kinds of drinks or sweet or savory
dishes or candies. It's like a it's sort of like
(04:41):
a dragon fruit that just isn't showing off as much.
That's like a little bit more humble. It's it's a
plant that gives you a challenge, but it's like an
oasis in the desert.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
I love that. It's it's like being all humble, but
but you want to eat me.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yeah, you're gonna have to for that. Yes, it's a
very eat at your own risk kind of plant. Love it,
Oh so yes. The prickly pear is a member of
the cactus family Cactasia, and their genus is Aupentia Aptia.
(05:28):
I don't know. There are some like two hundred ish,
maybe up to three hundred species within the genus, depending
on who you ask. They're native to the semi arid
and desert regions of the Americas, from provinces of Canada
all the way down through parts of Argentina and Chile.
They can range in size and shape from like small
(05:48):
shrub with those pads branching off of and growing up
around each other, to a height of like a couple
feet less than a meter, to a large shrub like
person sized to more like a tree up to twelve
meters or over thirty feet. In the Galapagos, for example,
they have those with like a like thick trunk like
stem off the top of which the pads grow, and
(06:09):
these sort of chains in clusters. And if you've never
seen these, google it. I mean, like maybe not right now,
I don't know what you're up to, but they look
like a Doctor Seuss thing. It's really cool. The plants
do propagate best from cuttings, not seeds. The pads can
be rounder or more oblong, anywhere from a few inches
to over a foot long that's around ten centimeters to
(06:31):
like over thirty Other than their's spines, the skin is smooth.
Different species have like actual spines like these like long thorns,
or merely these spiny little bristles that look like fuzz
poking out from nodes on the skin of the pads.
Those nodes are also where new pads may sprout from.
(06:51):
Both types of spines must be removed before eating, and
should be watched out for while handling the pads, like
unless you really know what you're doing, in which case
I'm not going to tell you what to do, Like,
do not handle any part of the prickly pear cactus
without gloves or other protection before the spines are removed.
Those little bristles can be hard to see and they
(07:13):
are barbed, so they're like a literal pain to remove
from your flesh. Ooh yeah, yeah. The pads will put
off a ray of flowers, mostly along their top edge,
but sometimes on the body, like these big pretty flowers
and shades from yellow to orange to like bright pink.
If pollinated, and they are pretty good atself pollinating, they'll
(07:36):
develop into a sort of egg shaped fruit with a
kind of flat end on the large top side of them. Yeah,
like it would be the bottom of the egg. But anyway. Yeah,
they're anywhere from a couple inches long to maybe over
twice that, like five centimeters plus. They tend to make
the pads look a little bit like these big old
(07:57):
bear claws, but you know, like aigen raided bear claws
because they have too many stubby little fingers on them. Yeah.
The fruit will start out in shades of like white
to green, and then ripen to anywhere from like green
to yellow, orange, red, bright purple, or so deep purple
that they're brown, some combination thereof. Perhaps I understand that
(08:20):
when they're ripe you should just kind of like twist
them off their pads because they're sort of soft, like
avoid tearing them. They also have those spiny bristles that
need to be handled carefully and removed before consuming. The
spines can be pulled off with an implement like tweezers,
or brushed off or burned off. You might see them
(08:40):
sold under the Spanish name tunas. And if you're not
eating them fresh, you'll often pulp or juice them to
remove the seeds before any kind of further processing. But yeah,
oh prickly pear lemonade good like jams or jellies to
put in just anything that you want. Yeah, the juice
is also fermented into alcohol. The seeds themselves can be
(09:03):
ground into a flower and used in baked goods, and
those pads, yes, are used as a vegetable when they're
young and tender, usually harvested in the springtime. I understand
that you should cut those off the plant with a
sharp knife and then can remove those spines, yes, using
implement like tweezers or a vegetable peeler. Yeah, I've read
that there. I haven't had the pads. I've read that
there's something right like the texture of asparagus or maybe
(09:27):
okra like with a bit of slime to them and
just a green vegetable flavor like green beans. I've seen
recipes for the slices fried up with onion and eggs
for breakfast, or maybe simmered into soups and stews, or
the whole pads like grilled as a side dish. You
might see those under the Spanish name nepalus or on
menus as nopolitos. The plant is also used as podder
(09:49):
for cattle and other livestock. Sometimes it's like a low
cost you'd better not try it fencing around tracts of land,
and it's processed for oils that are used in small
care products or SAPs that's used as a thickening agent.
It's also the natural source of a type of parasitic
insect called a cocknile, which produces this bright red pigment
(10:14):
called carmine that's used in everything from paints and dyes
to cosmetics, to microscopic imaging to food products. Yeah, wow, yep,
very briefly, because this is not a carmine episode, as
hard as you tried, Annie, the cocaial insects will embed
(10:36):
themselves in the pads of this cactus and like feed
off of it while they produce eggs. So if you
ever see what looks like like little white dust bunnies
on the surface of a prickly pear pad, that's cocanile.
More on carmine in the history section. M The plants
(10:57):
are also, just to put it out there, like, pretty
ecologically important in the places where they grow natively anyway,
providing shade and shelter and a water source and calories
for just all kinds of different animals.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I really can't wait to hear from listeners about this one.
I'm so excited. What about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
By themselves, Both the pads and fruit of the prickly
pear are pretty good for you, you know, some good fiber,
some vitamin C. They'll help fill you up but to
keep you going pear with the protein and some fat,
which sounds delicious. They have been used in traditional medicines
for all kinds of things, all kinds of things, but
save er moato.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Yes, yeah, yes, well we do have some numbers for you.
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Yeah. Mexico produces around eight hundred metric tons of prickly
pear every year. I think that's the fruit in the pads.
Both they're farmed by some twenty thousand families who make
their living off of the plant, and Mexico does account
for about forty five percent of globalduction, followed by Italy
at around twelve percent and South Africa at about four percent.
(12:05):
These numbers do come from sources with different timelines, and
as with any agricultural product, production can change kind of rapidly.
For example, the industry for prickly pair is just exploding
in Tunisia right now. So some of these numbers are
from like twenty thirteen, some of them are from like
twenty nineteen, and I didn't find comparable numbers from both times,
(12:30):
so I don't know, I don't know numbers. There are
a couple of records listed that in this way that
it seems to me that Guinness Records has just started
kind of farming scientific papers or like trawling scientific papers
(12:51):
for this sort of thing. But okay, so species of
this cactus are the most northerly natively occurring cactus in
the world, and other species are the most invasive cactus
in the world. More on that in the history section
related to the last time that I said that. Yeah, yep,
(13:14):
this is not a number. But my favorite sentence of
the day comes from a paper on prickly pair cactus
from nineteen eighty six. Two sentences technically quote A wide
variety of other animals have been successfully raised on the
cactus pads. These include sheep, pigs, horses, ostriches grown for
their feather plumes, and at least one circus elephant, at
(13:37):
least one at least one not willing to say only one,
not willing to say.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Two, right, can't say for sure, but at least one
circus elephant.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
There are a few prickly pair festivals. I saw mentions
of a few that I couldn't track down more details for,
like maybe they're no longer running. So if you've been
to a cool one that we don't mention here, do
tell us about it. But all right. One in Superior,
Arizona is coming up real quick in August twenty fourth.
The day starts early with foraging demonstrations, moving into educational talks,
(14:15):
some food booths, some music and folklorecal dancing. Local restaurants
are featuring some Prickly pair specials including like a lot
of prickly pear sauces and jams on like tasty sounding
dish like ribs like a nice pear sauce on there
Shrimp Tacos. One in Albuquerque, New Mexico is in its
sixth year as of twenty twenty four. Will be happening
(14:37):
on September twenty seventh and twenty eighth. That's a Friday
and Saturday. It'll feature cooking demos, craft workshops including carmine dyeing, Yeah,
some gardening workshops for planting native species, and Prickly Nights
programming on Friday including music and flamenco dancing, plus of
course food and drink. And then another in Scottsdale, Aras
(15:00):
is going to be on October twenty eighth. This year,
it's more education based, with like lots of demonstrations and
taste tests about how to work with prickly pear and
other native plants.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Those all sounds so clear.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Right, oh right. If anyone is in the area and
has the chance to go, I would I would really
love to hear how all the demonstrations are going. And
if you learn something cool.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
Yes, report back, please please. But I guess this brings
us to our much teased history.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Section about not food kind of it is used as
a food, dye. You weren't that far off base, dude,
I tried, I really did. All right. Yes, we are
going to get into that, but first we're going to
get into a quick break for a word from our sponsors, and.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
We're back sponsored.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Yes, thank you. So.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Prickly pear cactus is native to the America's records as
far back as sixty five BCE indicate that people were
eating it, though some speculate people were eating it in
the America's up to twenty thousand years ago. Again, that's
one of those things.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Yeah, hard to say.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
Many early indigenous peoples in these areas farmed and used
this cactus as a food source. The whole thing, the leaves,
the pattles, the fruits as a beverage as well and yes, medicinally,
including the needles. The fruits were roasted, boiled, and dried
made into jams or candies, are harvested for winter, and
(16:41):
they were a good source of water too, and they
were sometimes used as a container, which I love. Oh yeah, yeah,
But these peoples also used the cockonaial dye generated from
the bodies and eggs of an insect that feeds on
the prickly pear cactus. And that dye is yes, karmic
acid and extracted and used in a variety of ways,
(17:02):
including dyeing clothes.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, mictech people and what's now Mexico cultivated prickly pairs
specifically to develop different shades of this dye.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Rights, And there are a lot of legends around this
cactus too. One tells the story of how it essentially
led to the founding what's now Mexico City after the
Mecas witnessed an eagle eating a snake while perched on
a prickly pear cactus. Yes. When the Spanish arrived in
Mexico in the fifteen hundreds and discovered the dye for themselves,
(17:36):
they were immediately enamored with it, shipping clothes died with
it back to Europe. The demand reached such a point
that they started shipping just the die, and the dye
was extremely expensive and the ships that were carrying it
were targets for attack because of that, Spain maintained control
of this dye in Europe for over two hundred and
(17:58):
fifty years before other countries broke through that control and
it became available pretty much around the world. I read
in multiple places the red coats of the British used
this dye at this time.
Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, that's about color. Yeah, that's about the color of carmine.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
Yeah. Several European records from the fifteen to sixteen hundreds
made note of indigenous people's eating prickly pear cactus and
or drinking a fermented beverage made with it, often attripting
it to health. They would always say, like, seems like
it's good for your health. Other records are strictly about
(18:34):
the medicinal attributes and uses, like treating burns, for instance.
That was a big one. After cattle were introduced to
the Americas in the sixteen hundreds, this cactus was used
as feed for them and other livestock. In some areas.
It was especially useful during dry seasons or in areas
where it was difficult to grow much else. The plants
(18:56):
themselves were shipped back to Europe too, but it was
a bit of a struggle for a while getting them
to survive the cold and wet climates. Most had never
seen a plant like it ever.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
Yeah, cactuses in general are native to the Americas, and
so this was basically the first one that made it
back over to Europe. And so people were like whoa, yeah, cool, Okay,
we didn't know that plants came like this rad It
(19:28):
did find some purchase in places like the southern Iberian
Peninsula other areas around the Mediterranean coast. People were hoping
originally to farm cocknil insects for that carmine. It never
really worked out because for whatever reason, the insects did
not thrive in those environments. But yeah, from Spanish territories.
(19:52):
Over the next couple centuries, it was naturalized around the
coast of the Mediterranean, in places like Palestine as a
fencing and for its fruit and where specifically. It is
still something of a national symbol.
Speaker 1 (20:04):
Right as Europeans traveled through the Western US. Meanwhile, there
are several accounts you can find around the spines the
quills of some types of cacti causing all sorts of trouble,
sticking in fingers, mouths, or throats, and even, according to
some records, leading to death. Yeah, there are records from
(20:28):
the Lewis and Clark expedition that makes several mentions of
them and the trouble they had with them, if you
want to look it up. Oooh yeah, speaking of trouble,
the story of the prickly paar cactus in Australia is
a different one. According to the written record, the first
known instance of the prickly pair cactus in Australia was
in seventeen eighty eight, and it was introduced primarily to
(20:52):
kickstart their own cocknail dye industry. A few species were
growing by the eighteen forties, but it soon became invasive
and the government had to intervene, beginning with the eighteen
sixty six Prickly Pair Destruction Destruction Act passed by the
New South Wales government. Yes, this act made people responsible
(21:16):
for the destruction of the cacti on their land, which
was not easy. No, No, that was the problem.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
Yeah, and I really need to emphasize here how much
of a failure this was because because it became so
invasive and also it definitely no one ever got a
crop car mine.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Out of it, no, no, and people were losing their
land in places they could grow stuff.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
Like yeah, no, I'm like, we're giggling about it, but
it's it was actually a very serious issue. It was
it really sucked.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
It really sucked, and you can find archival pictures of
it and it's it's striking. Yes.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
So that didn't work.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
So the Crown offered a five thousand pounds reward for
anyone who could come up with a way to control
these cacti in nineteen oh one. They doubled it in
nineteen oh seven, an equivalent of about two million Australian
dollars today. Yes. In nineteen twelve, the Prickly Pair Traveling
Commission formed to go around and study the Prickly pair
(22:26):
for potential weaknesses. Again, it's you're a situation but saying
I'm just imagining them with like magnifying glass looking at
these cactime. By the nineteen twenties, the Prickly pair cactus
had overtaken fifty eight million acres, meaning that yeah, this
(22:49):
land was no longer available for agriculture. Controlling the population
became really, really important, and people working on solutions tried
chemicals dangerous to the land, including about thirty thoy tens
each of arsenic pentoxide and Robert's improved pair poison, though
the needs of World War One temporarily put a halt
(23:11):
to all of that because that all got redirected. While
these chemicals did work, they weren't great for the land,
as I said, and they were difficult to implement and
didn't do much to stop the spread of the cacti,
like they might kill some but they still spreading. Yeah, yeah,
But the Commission had another idea up their sleeve. They
(23:34):
found the answer in the form of the Cacto blastis
moth after botanists traveled to the US and we're talking
to botanis there and they were like, you should check
out this moth though from Argentina. So they did, and
they had to import this moth from Argentina pre air
travel and run several tests before distributing ten million eggs
(23:56):
in the nineteen twenties and billions more in.
Speaker 2 (23:59):
The fall years.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
And I just want to note here their first test failed,
but they've tried it again. Wow, this could be a
mini series of itself.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Apparently.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yes, the eggs were wrapped in paper quills and a
pin to attach it to the cactus like they had
to be transported carefully, but it works. Nearly seven million
hectares of land was freed up from the cacti by
nineteen thirty two. It's considered a huge success story in
terms of controlling an invasive plant with biological means. The
(24:35):
moth even has a memorial hall named after it in Australia.
Wow in the headlines. I recommend looking at the headlines
because I when I saw it, I was like, I
must know more about this story.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Yeah, this, I'll say Australia has the best worst track
record of getting so out of control so quickly. I'm
reminded of the Ostrich Wars, like or I'm sorry, the
EMU wars. Wrong. Giant bird that will kick the guts
out of you.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I do recommend looking up the pictures
because the prickly pair cactus had taken over.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It has everywhere it was not to be tamed.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
No, what a story. Well again, thanks for indulging me.
Food show all right. Ostensibly extensibly in the twentieth century,
in Mexico, the population of prickly pear cactus was significantly
impacted by the crop being snatched up and sold to
(25:50):
other markets. In response, there was a slew of efforts
to industrialize and commercialize this industry, including banning the foraging
of the prickly pear cactus in some instances and research
into improving the DNA of the cactus. By nineteen seventy five,
several new varieties were introduced. This is one of those
(26:11):
things though that it sounds like it negatively impacted some
communities that had been harvesting it without.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Messing things up.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:22):
Sure, but it also.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Helped that it was like a complicated it worked in
some places and then hurt in other places.
Speaker 2 (26:30):
A lot of it, Yeah, yep.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
The prickly pair cactus was adopted as Texas's state plant
in nineteen ninety five, and.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Starting in the two thousands, some researchers started really promoting
the adoption of prickly pair for use as a livestock
fodder in the deserts of the Middle East through South Asia,
as Yeah, it can grow better with fewer resources than
lots of other types of fodder plants in those sort
of situations.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
Yeah, yeah, again, we would love to hear from listeners
who have experience with this cooking it.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Oh yes, yes, all of vegetables, all of your recipes.
I you're if you have a method, if you have
a method for despining it. Yes, the one, the one
that I've seen popularized is just like taking a little
bit lighter and like burning off every little every little
(27:31):
node on a fruit.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
But wow, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
I've also seen people with brushes. I've seen people with tweezers.
I've seen right the vegetable peeler method, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
I love it. I love again where humans are like
you couldn't try to keep me from eating you, No, Nope,
I would find a way. I'll do what I have
to do.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
I guess that's what we have to say about the
prickly pear cactus for now.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yes that we do already have some listener mail for you,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break for
a word from our sponsors. And we're back.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Thank you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with
snool Spiky.
Speaker 2 (28:36):
I was desperately trying to follow you on.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
That I love it. I think you did a good job.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I took thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Even if you did it, that's all good. Every catch eye.
The spikes are in different place.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
There they are, they are.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
You have to watch out for them. You don't always succeed. Yeah,
that's exactly. There you go, There you go. That's the
true meaning. We have two messages about potato salad.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
Yeah we do.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Hearing about all of your potato salad thoughts is so good,
so good? Okay, so Bart wrote, you asked for an
Irish perspective on mashed potato salad. So here's my on
the ground experience. It's definitely not the case that all
potato salad here is mash, but it is true that
salads with waxier cubed potatoes are much rarer and treated
(29:33):
with suspicion by some, because we all learn as kids
that under cooked potatoes are dangerous, though we never seem
to be told why. American potato salad tends to lean
into sour and tanky flavors with lots of acid and mustard,
while the coal saws I grew up with were all
mashed and all dominated by creamy, oniony flavors from mayonnaise
(29:56):
and scallions. A more exotic coal saw might reply place
the scallions with fresh parsley, but mustard was just not
a flavor I ever remember encountering. Potato salads were pearly
white with bits of green. Personally, I like to mix
it up and make some more traditional Irish potato salads,
some mayonnaise free, German style ones with oil, vinegar, mustard
and lots of dill, and some American style ones with mayo,
(30:19):
vinegar and mustard. I primarily make potato salad to avoid
throwing out leftover potatoes, so when I have waxier leftovers,
I favor American or German styles, And when the leftovers
are flower rear, I take out my fork, mash them
up and go Irish. It's stunning how tasty a really
simple Irish style potato salad can be. My base recipe
(30:40):
is one and a half tablespoons of mayo for each
one hundred grams of potato, and either one scallion per
one hundred grams, or one tablespooned gentle fresh herbs like parsley, chives,
or dill per one hundred grams, or one teaspoon of
opinionated fresh herbs like tarragon per one hundred grams. If
all else fails, even dried herbs work, but you need
(31:01):
to reduce the amount and add a little more mao
to make it for the dryness. Mind you, If you
boil your potatoes and properly salted water, they're delicious cold
with literally nothing added.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
I yeah, see above, Rea, I want to eat potatoes, yes, genuinely, Yeah, yes,
oh yeah, right, Oh this is all great, great, great information. Yeah.
We had a minor debate in the middle of this.
(31:33):
If the word coles law was intentional does that mean
potato salad?
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yes, we did, and either way, love this so good? Yes,
And I love that you mix it up. I like
that you rit you know some days you're feeling one way,
if some days you're feeling another based on ingredients, perhaps,
Oh sure, Yeah, this is fantastic. People can be so
strong and their opinions, which we appreciate. But I like
(32:02):
this too. If you know what today I'm feeling, right,
there's room for all of them. There is, unless you
don't think there are, and then I support you in
your strong.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Opinion, immediate backing it unless it's true.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think it's fine to have a strong opinion it's
this way. I also think it's great to be like,
you know what, I like all these different varieties. Yeah, yeah,
I'm also curious about this. Undercooked potatoes are dangerous. I'm
gonna have to look into that. Oh yeah, I never
heard that as a kid.
Speaker 2 (32:44):
Oh oh, I definitely did. Yeah, you shouldn't eat raw potatoes.
That's a true statement. But I'm pretty I'm pretty sure
that it's due to the fact that if the eyes
have started to produce sprouts, then that that those sprouts
are toxic. But I'm not totally positive, and I probably
(33:05):
shouldn't say anything. We should just do an episode on
potatoes and suss it out.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
Now. That is one we have been shying away from.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Oh yes on purpose that No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Know if the ambition has reached that one. Like not
today potatoes, we will do in your orbits, like potato salad, yes,
but not today potatoes.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
All right, Florence wrote catching up on a few episodes,
and with the potato salad and lemon episode being so
close to each other, I had to write in I'm
a Canadian living in London, and most of my friends
here are from all over, including a few Americans. A
last year, we rented a house in Oxford to visit
a manor house nearby, and as we were planning our meals,
they had a barbecue. I offered to make a potato salad.
(33:55):
My French friend was immediately on board. My American friends
not so much. They told me afterwards that none of
them is a fan of that classic. But all of
them were absolutely blown away, and one even asked for
the recipe to cook for her family. It's my ant's
recipe and it's truly the best. Okay, it's as follows.
The zest and juice of half to one lemon to taste,
(34:17):
olive oil, vinegar. I usually use white wine or apple
side or vinegar, old fashioned mustard and salt and pepper.
Emultify the dressing and pour over boiled baby potatoes, skin
on spring onions and arugula, and eat warm. It's absolutely delicious,
with the tang from the lemon and the mustard, the
bitterness from the arugula, and the softness of the potatoes.
(34:39):
We also introduced the non North Americans to s'mores. As
graham crackers are not the easiest to come by, we
decided to try using chocolate hobknobs a sweet oak cookie
with one side coated and chocolate. I might say it
might have been better than the classic s'mores. Also, Hobknobs
could be an interesting episode for you guys. It's a
quintessentially classic biscuit here in the UK, but I'm pretty
(35:01):
certain it was introduced in the nineteen eighties and they
just had a lot of marketing to present it as
a traditional UK sweet. Anyway, looking forward to more episodes
to keep me company while I craft.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Hobnobs. I've never heard of that, but it made me laugh.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Oh, oh, you've never had one. Oh, I've definitely had those. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's one of those biscuits that you kind of
like can't avoid when you're when you're in England.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
So somehow I did or maybe I had one and
it just didn't know it was called a hobnob. Who knows.
I'm glad it turned out well. I feel like a
lot of people outside of when I introduce people to
some wars, it's not it doesn't go over well.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Yeah, this might This sounds like it was maybe a
little bit less a lot like a little bit less
sweet and so much perhaps and yeah, because right like
having a whole piece of chocolate and a whole marshmallow.
I'm just like, whoa, yeah, I'm hypogcemic. I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
I love some mores, but I feel like it's like
halfway in. I'm good, that's it. Yeah, so this maybe
that's what it was. But yes, that would be a
good topic. Definitely, absolutely, Also, this potato salad sounds delicious
to me.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
I will generally speaking, that is approximately my recipe for
any kind of salad dressing, more or less like maybe
add some herbs in there, but that's pretty much it.
And it's so good. And I've never thought about putting
it on warm potatoes with arugula, but that sounds amazing.
(36:43):
I'm like mad about how amazing that sounds due to
the fact that I'm not eating it right now.
Speaker 1 (36:51):
We have so many potato salads.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
I love it. It's fantastics. The best problem it really
really is.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Yes, I all keep the potato salad recipes coming, please, please, please,
Thank you so much for both of these listeners for
writing in. If we would like to write to us,
you can our email us Hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
We're also on social media. You can find us on Twitter,
Facebook and Instagram at saver pod and we do hope
to hear from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan
Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and
we hope that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Dylan Fagan
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
Popular Podcasts
1. Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
2. Stuff You Missed in History Class
Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
3. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.