September 18, 2023 • 29 mins
This sweetened root vegetable side dish has so many potentials for personalization that it may be cause for a bit of introspection. Anney and Lauren get to the roots of tzimmes.
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm more on Vocal Bomb, and today we have an
episode for you about zimis.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and I have already had many minor panic attacks
of that pronunciation because I have seen several different pronunciations. Also,
I had never heard of this until you mentioned it,
and you had to spell it out for me, which
I appreciated.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yep, yep, yeah, because it is spelled with the tz
or sometimes a ts i am m ees And yeah, yeah,
I've heard out in the wild pronunciation zimmis. But that
might be that might be just kind of goofy. I
did not grow up with this dish, but have been
(00:58):
introduced to it after that by various people at potlucks
and Jewish holidays.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yes, which that is the reason you suggested this correct.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, because as this is coming out, Russiashana is upon
us to everyone celebrating, we wish you a happy and
sweet New Year. And I kind of meant for this
episode to come out before the beginning of the holiday,
so that, you know, interested parties could actually listen to
it before they were kind of bunkered down for holiday
(01:31):
celebration stuff with family and whatever. But you know, hey,
it's vaguely timely. We're vaguely on time.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Lauren and Annie. Vaguely on time sounds about right. Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And for a little bit of background information, you could
see our episodes about carrots or honey. I'm trying to
think what else we've done that's relevant a few different things.
I don't know. You have Google, you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, you do the work. Come on, I don't know
what we're talking about. Oh no, we don't know. You
suggested a topic that is coming up, and I was
I could have sworn up and down. We'd already done that. No,
guess not, so you let us know. Yeah, yeah, you're
much more you are. I do have a bag of
(02:28):
carrots I'm trying to get rid of, so maybe I
don't know it's a lot of carrots. Oh well, I
guess that brings us to your questions. It does, zimmus,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, Zimmus can be a lot of things, but we
are basically talking about a dish of seasoned root vegetables
and or tubers, roasted or otherwise cooked with a little
bit of a savory element to balance out a more
pronounced and ideologically important sweet element. The vegetables can be
(03:10):
whatever you like and have access to, almost always carrots,
often potatoes or sweet potatoes, onions, turnip or parsnip, sometimes
other things like squash. The seasonings can be herbal or
warm or hot and spicy or whatever you like, often
with a little bit of citrus juice for like a tang. Yeah.
(03:30):
The savory element can be stock or schmaltz, which is
chicken fat or a little bit of meat of whatever kind.
The sweet element is almost always honey, but often also
apples or dried fruit like plums, sometimes other fruit, I
don't know. It's to choose your own adventure kind of
side dish or main dish if you have enough protein
(03:53):
in there. Yeah, served family style usually, and the result
is intended to be warm and filling and like balanced
and comforting and nostalgic. It really like heralds the changing seasons. Yeah.
It can also be a little bit cloying and mushy.
(04:15):
It's it's like this is going to be contentious.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's like the pumpkin spice lotte of side dishes. It
doesn't have to be bad or basic. It is it
is what you make of it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I will say, also, please don't yell at me. This
is just my personal sake. When I was reading about this,
I got a lot of vibes from like my experience
with ambrosia, where one you can read like any description
and none of them are even close to ching. But two,
(04:51):
like there were kind of two diverging paths when one
of them became very sweet, very like gelatinous.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah yeah, very cooked down stew kind of thing, yeah,
versus like a roasted pan of root vegetables.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Right, So that was just for my walk of life
when I was like that kind of remising of ambrosia,
oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Another thing this might be reminding you
of if you are unfamiliar with zimis, you know, like
maybe the description is kind of making you go, this
just sounds like a holiday cast role it is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That is what it is.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
This is a dish made for big holiday dinners traditionally
celebrations of Russias Shana, which is the Jewish New Year
and the start of the high holiday period which falls
like September Ish every year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That the dish can also.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Be applied to other holiday dinners like Passover, and you know,
whatever other potluck situation you want to bring a roasted
root vegetable dish too. And okay, so a little bit
about Russiashana. As with many holidays and perhaps especially New
Year's celebrations, Russia Shana has a set of symbolic food
(06:03):
traditions attached. These foods are collectively called samanim heck, I
think I'm saying that right, saman I'm sure. Okay, let's
go with that though, okay. And one of the key
elements in Russiashana foods is sweetness, often expressed with apples
dipped in honey. That's kind of the classic. Maybe those
foods could be extrapolated out into ingredients and other dishes.
(06:27):
Maybe you dip some kala in honey. But there are
a bunch of traditional foods attached here, differing slightly among
different Jewish cultures, but can include round hola bread rather
than a longer loaf, the heads of lamb or fish, pomegranates, dates, leaks, beets,
(06:48):
string beans, pumpkin or other gourds, quints and sesame seeds,
and a lot of these like there are puns involved
with why they're associated with the New Year surrounding like
and beginnings and plenty and sweetness and also a lot
of those things would be heck and delicious in Zamus,
(07:10):
just saying, just saying, mm hmmm, sounds good. Yeah, carrots
are a new tradition, but I mean, you know, like
like if they're cut crosswise, they resemble coins and you know,
as a symbol of like wealth and plenty and stuff
like that. Sure, and furthermore, the idea behind this dish
is adaptability. This dish is a vibe, and you can
(07:34):
do whatever creates that vibe for you with what you
like and what you've got. The kind of standard American
version at this point is like carrots and sweet potatoes
with honey, chicken stock, orange juice, cinnamon, and prunes or
raisins or apricots. Yeah, people often ste it on the
stovetop because like that's easy. But y'all, I always recommend
(07:55):
roasting vegetables, roasting anything whenever possible. It's just so nice
you get that crisp anyway. But yeah, people can and
do add anything, you know, like corn and tomatoes, sure,
chili peppers and cilantro, Yeah, do you fresh ginger and pears,
some pineapple in there? Wine and bay leaves. Top it
(08:18):
with a cogal crust, Bake it up with some dumplings inside,
put some beans in, or pieces of chicken or short
ribs or brisket.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Oh oh, listeners, yes, oh yes, please, please please please.
Oh well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Oh that depends.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm getting that vibe.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It tends to be a hearty, stick to your ribs
kind of dish. And and you might you might have
a lot of starch from some of those root vegetables,
but you know, yeah, it's I don't know, drink water,
have a nice time, have.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
A nice time. Yeah. Well, this one was hard to find.
Numbers four, but you found one right.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Kind of sort of okay. So for homemade dishes like this,
it's really difficult to track down. Like you don't really
have global production numbers for zimmis, Like that's not what's
going on in the world. But I can say that
there are intense spikes in Google searches for Zimmis every
April and September, meaning every passover in Russia Shana. The
(09:31):
top five countries searching for stuff about Zimmis are Israel, Ukraine, Russia, Poland,
and Belarus. And there has been a fairly steady decline
in searches over the past twenty years for the term zimmis.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. I found some impassioned articles about how
other people do zimmas compared to how they think they
zimmis should be done. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So yeah, there's there's there's a lot of I mean
like it because it can be I mean, it's sort
of the difference between if you've ever had that dish
that a very well meaning relative brings out every holiday
that's kind of bland and mushy and like just perhaps
not the freshest or most interesting expression of a particular vegetable,
(10:27):
and then you have it and then you have like
a like a really nice, like crispy roasted Brussels sprout,
and you're like, oh my heck, this vegetable can taste
like this and it like rocks your world, and and
that can very much be the way that this dish goes.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think we've talked about that before,
about like where's the line between I'm just doing this
dish because we always do this dish, oh yeah, yeah,
versus I maybe no one really wants this thing. Yeah,
that's what's going on here.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But sure, sure versus similar r it's something that you
actually want to eat, which which it can be, which
it totally can be. I got so hungry doing this research.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Oh my, heck, me too. I really I was trying
to think if I've ever had anything quite like this,
because I like the idea of like the chicken stock
and the sweetness and the meat and the carrot, like
I like, I like the idea of this amalgamation. I'm
just not sure. I'm trying to envision it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'd liken it to like a the kind of sweet
potato cast role that isn't whipped but rather has like
chunks of sweet potatoes in it. Okay, but but right,
like like left turn at Albuquerque, Like to involve like
brisket instead of nuts and no marshmallow topping, honey honey instead.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I don't know, sounds good to me? Sounds good to me.
But yes, we do have some history.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
For you, Oh we do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, so yes.
Kind of like the numbers, the history of zemis is
difficult to pin down, and a lot of people trace
it back to this dish having at least one root
vegetable involved. So if that's the definition we're working off of,
(12:38):
most historians who have looked into this believe it traces
back to Jewish communities in Middle Ages Germany. It most
likely included turnips parsnips, along with some type of meat.
And yes, some think that carrots were added around the
fifteenth century.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Which was round about when carrots became kind of common
around like or th under Eastern Europe, or re became
common again. See our carrots episode for more on that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and as you mentioned, Lauren, because of their shape
when sliced, kind of like coins, they became symbolic of
luck and prosperity going into the New Year, which, speaking
of yes, starting around the Middle Ages in Europe all
the way up to the twentyth first century beyond, Zemis
(13:26):
became largely associated with Russiashana and the tradition of eating
sweet foods to Russian a sweet New Year. Another theory
around the addition of carrots is that carrots were one
of the few hardy, sweet tasting vegetables in Poland and
Russia because of that it became the sweet aspect of
(13:47):
this dish.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Especially before sugar became less expensive.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, or that the name for carrot in German and
Yiddish means to grow or to multiply, or.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like or like plenty or or more like increasing kind
of concept. I'm not an expert in either of those languages,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
No, we are, no, but people have looked into it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yes, and there is in fact a kind of deeper
animalogical mess around this whole dish.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes. Leah Hadad of Jewish food experience offers this explanation.
The first known use of the Yiddish word zemis is
from eighteen ninety two, and it is said to have
originated from the German word for side dish.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Which is zumus. So yeah, you can hear that. You
can hear that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
There's also a theory that it came from the German essen,
meaning to eat or for eating, or even that it's
related to the English word simmer. Modernly, though fun fun
with Yiddish, zimis is colloquially used to mean like a
(15:06):
fuss or commotion. So so I don't know, like like
you might you might like walk into a room and
just things are in a little bit of chaos, you know,
like what's with all the Zemish? Or if someone is
just making like an absolute dog's breakfast of something like,
you could be like, oh, man, like, how did you
make such a zemis out of this?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Like that kind of idea dogs breakfast? I've never heard that.
I like it. I feel like it clearly communicates though
I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm learning
a lot. One of the first known written recipes of zemis,
(15:51):
or at least kind of an early version of it,
came out of a thirteen ninety three non Jewish cookbook
called The Menagery Depity. It called for chopped gourds, carrots,
and turnips sweetened with honey. Much much later, in eighteen
ninety six, a Yiddish cookbook contained a recipe for stewing
turnips with sugar and schmaltz, which, by the way, the
(16:13):
author recommended topping that with breaded and fried calf spleen.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Ooh, I don't know about the spleen in particular, but
that sounds very fancy.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It does sound very fancy, doesn't it. A nineteen hundred
menu out of a Kosher London restaurant included an item
called Kishka Sima Simma, which had chunks of beef and
beef intestines stuffed with flour, schmaltz and spices.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
The kishka portion. Yes and yeah, like the inclusion of meat.
And this is interesting because like, all right, if you've
ever cooked a family or holiday meal, you understand the
convenience of being able to put a protein and aside
in the oven. At the same time, this was even
(17:05):
more pronounced before the development of the modern kitchen, you know,
with with most homes in the developed world, you know,
having their own refrigeration and heating elements that work at
the turn of a dial or the press of a button.
Even you know, dials are outdated now here we are.
But yeah, just like meaning it was a bigger production
to cook anything. And so if it works to put
(17:29):
everything in one pan and shove that in the oven, heck,
yeah do it. I feel like today vegetable side dishes
are considered like why would you put meat in that
in American culture anyway, And I'm like, hey, because it's
gonna it's gonna do good things for the vegetables and
for the meat that's going to be tasty mm hmm,
yeah and can.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, you're so right, because I mean, your outdated comments
stung a little bit. My kitchen is a little old,
and I got the old dials in the oven really
doesn't work that well. I got to time things very pardicular.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Understand the value of this. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I know as the new owner of a kitchen
that was built in nineteen sixty three, all of the
appliances in which are from nineteen sixty three.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I feel you.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
My oven and my range are separate, and only three
of my burner's work me too.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But my favorite landlord thing he's ever done is one
time I was like, because the numbers had gotten rubbed
off on the dial, I was like, can we fix this?
His solution was he just wrote low and high. I
(18:50):
was like, I could do that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Wow, that's Look.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
He got an oven thermometer.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And yeah, that's much better, much better.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. Anyway, Yes, So as Jewish folks in Germany migrated
across Europe, zemis went with them. As potatoes were brought
back from Europe were brought back to Europe from the Americas,
they ended up in the dish as well. But as
we've been saying throughout this over the decades, as ingredients
(19:25):
from around the globe became more available and affordable in
Europe or wherever, they ended up in it too, things
like pineapple, apricots, and plums, many of them symbolic in nature.
And I would love for listeners to write in because
I read a lot of different takes on the symbolism
of these things, which I love, but I would love
(19:46):
to hear from listeners about it. When Jewish people immigrated
to the US in the nineteenth century and kind of,
you know, big wave, they introduced the country to the dish.
The evolution of semis continue with the accessibility of ingredients
that may have previously been unavailable or too expensive, meaning
that more meat got added into the mix and more sugar.
(20:10):
And it really was a period of a lot of experimentation,
and all kinds of things got added in, from lima
beans to sweet potatoes. At the same time, this dish
arrived in South America with Jewish immigrants, and people adapted
it to local ingredients. There frequently sweet potatoes, corn, tomatoes, beans, carrots, peaches,
(20:31):
often served in a large squash with meat. Oh that
sounds are a dozen yeah, all right. In the cookbook
Jewish Cookery, first published in nineteen forty nine, there were
almost a dozen different varieties of Semis recipes, and the
Molly Goldberg Cookbook out of nineteen fifty five had this
(20:54):
quote about zemis. To define zimis would be a presumption.
I love that. Oh oh that's oh that's beautiful. It's
so good a presumption. Yes, yes, well, I am very
(21:14):
excited to hear from listeners about this one. All your
different arrieties, your takes, your traditions.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, what absolutely does and does not belong
in there?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah. I did read an interesting article. I took it
out because I only found in this fact in one place,
but it was saying, like the decline of meat and
zemis in the United States, and it was kind of
decrying it but also explaining it. I couldn't tell how
much of it was like factual, how much of its opinion,
(21:43):
But sure, I thought it was interesting because this person
was very passionate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I guess that's
what we have to say about Zemis for now.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It is. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and went back with
this is new year. Yeah, Tina or Tenna Root. I
feel like we always do this question when you write in,
(22:36):
so please remind us. I remember being overjoyed when my
parents got his dinosaur egg. Oakia was a special street
when I was little. It made such an impression that
it's becoming a camping breakfast tradition for my own kids.
I also remember the oatmeal swirlies that you could add
jelly packets to, although apparently those lacked the staying power
(22:59):
of the quake powerhouse products. When we lived in Seattle,
there were blackberries everywhere. There were often herds of goats
next to the roads used to control the brambles. My
husband and I used to take our dog to it
near my park to pick blackberries. Our beagle mcguiver sniff
out the ripest berry and a clump, take it gently
(23:21):
in his teeth, and back up until it popped free.
He probably ate as many as we picked. In his honor.
We still make berry picking hound BlackBerry jam when we
have the chance. I'm attaching a photo of the late
mcguiver in his natural disgruntled state, he did not appreciate
the Bunny years. Guy, buddy, I love it. I love
(23:47):
that you still make this jam. I bet it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh yeah, and that's a really good BlackBerry picking technique.
I feel like that's better than mine. So yeah, good come.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
But guy, for and goats, they got figured out. Also,
I love this note about dinosaur Eggo beyond sharing that
with your kids. Yeah, Lauren and I we were talking
about Jurassic Park before this started.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I definitely was huge into dinosaurs as a kid, and
I think if I, if I had had my way,
there would have been a lot of this.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Oh yeah, oh absolutely no, certainly. I was a sucker
for marketing at the time. I mean I still am.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
But you know, yeah, yeah, that dinosaur marketing. They really
they got it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
They knew.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I knew. I have a lot of dinosaur merchandise.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, why not? Why wouldn't you? Dinosaurs are cool man dinosaurs.
They're great, also scary but good but friends. Yeah, Paul wrote,
who could have predicted two episodes in a row that
I have personal experience with first Halluomi and now Fudge
(25:06):
love this podcast anyway, living in Northern Michigan leams. Mackinaw
Island is just a notch in.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
The belt for us.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's a great place for a change, despite the fudgies
and horsepoop, no motorized vehicles allowed. I'm with you two
regarding fudge. The first bite is almost too much. Regarding
tourist labels. While us in Northern Michigan refer to tourists
as fudgies, people who live in the up call tourists
trolls because the only way to get two Michigan's Upper
(25:36):
Peninsula from this area is to cross the famous Mackinaw
Bridge and what lives under bridges You guessed it, trolls.
The real story, however, is just south in Mackinaw City,
where there's a family that has taken over most of
the town. The original members of the family have been
there for decades, but when the current generation took over,
(25:56):
they used various questionable methods to get to the point
where they own most of the hotels, restaurants, and a
good many souvenir shops. You may already be familiar with
them from a video that went viral a few years
back of a hotel clerk being extremely rude to a
guest who is alerting him to her toilet leaking in
the early hours of the morning. One of the best
examples of the questionable practices is the website they created
(26:19):
to purposefully mimic the official Machinosity website. The official page
is macinacity dot com. The family's website is macinaw Hyphencity
dot com. Notice the second website is titled Macinocity Chamber
of Tourism. Macinocity does not have a Chamber of Tourism.
All businesses on this site are owned by this family. Wow,
(26:48):
cut roads and that, to employ another Yiddish term is
sub kutzpah right there.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Really, I went and visited both of them. They're definitely
holding some tricks there.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Woo.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I feel like I because I came from a small
town who's very tourist based, and there was stuff like
this that happened in our town too. There is a
family that has a lot of power, has bought a
lot of the like I would not be surprised, all right,
these tactics like this.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Small town drama, Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Small town drama. Oh my gosh, but I'm glad he wrote.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
In Yeah this is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, oh it is, because that's just such a personal like.
We wouldn't necessarily find that in a research. We didn't,
so that's really cool. And I love the differences between
what they call tourists and the up. My roommate from
Machine called it the up. But maybe she was lying
to me. Oh oh oh I was. I was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
As I was reading that, I was realizing that I
had no idea how to say it out loud. I've
only ever seen it in print. I haven't heard it.
So oh, she was the type that could have been
lying to me.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I loved her, but she's definitely like the most deadpan No,
I can't read the listeners listen. Yeah, yes, but this
did remind me. I went on a rabbit hole of
Seinfeld related food oh clips, and I found one about
the Macanaw peaches, Jerry, the maccanol peaches. I don't know
(28:41):
if it's related to this, but I was like, ha,
then there you go again. Listeners. You can let us know. Yes, well,
thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, we would love
to hear from you. Our email is hello atapod dot
com and we are.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at Saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(29:22):
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Saber production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie
Reese and.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
I'm more on Vocal Bomb, and today we have an
episode for you about zimis.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
Yes, and I have already had many minor panic attacks
of that pronunciation because I have seen several different pronunciations. Also,
I had never heard of this until you mentioned it,
and you had to spell it out for me, which
I appreciated.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Yep, yep, yeah, because it is spelled with the tz
or sometimes a ts i am m ees And yeah, yeah,
I've heard out in the wild pronunciation zimmis. But that
might be that might be just kind of goofy. I
did not grow up with this dish, but have been
(00:58):
introduced to it after that by various people at potlucks
and Jewish holidays.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Yes, which that is the reason you suggested this correct.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yes, because as this is coming out, Russiashana is upon
us to everyone celebrating, we wish you a happy and
sweet New Year. And I kind of meant for this
episode to come out before the beginning of the holiday,
so that, you know, interested parties could actually listen to
it before they were kind of bunkered down for holiday
(01:31):
celebration stuff with family and whatever. But you know, hey,
it's vaguely timely. We're vaguely on time.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Lauren and Annie. Vaguely on time sounds about right. Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And for a little bit of background information, you could
see our episodes about carrots or honey. I'm trying to
think what else we've done that's relevant a few different things.
I don't know. You have Google, you figured it out.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, you do the work. Come on, I don't know
what we're talking about. Oh no, we don't know. You
suggested a topic that is coming up, and I was
I could have sworn up and down. We'd already done that. No,
guess not, so you let us know. Yeah, yeah, you're
much more you are. I do have a bag of
(02:28):
carrots I'm trying to get rid of, so maybe I
don't know it's a lot of carrots. Oh well, I
guess that brings us to your questions. It does, zimmus,
what is it?
Speaker 2 (02:48):
Well, Zimmus can be a lot of things, but we
are basically talking about a dish of seasoned root vegetables
and or tubers, roasted or otherwise cooked with a little
bit of a savory element to balance out a more
pronounced and ideologically important sweet element. The vegetables can be
(03:10):
whatever you like and have access to, almost always carrots,
often potatoes or sweet potatoes, onions, turnip or parsnip, sometimes
other things like squash. The seasonings can be herbal or
warm or hot and spicy or whatever you like, often
with a little bit of citrus juice for like a tang. Yeah.
(03:30):
The savory element can be stock or schmaltz, which is
chicken fat or a little bit of meat of whatever kind.
The sweet element is almost always honey, but often also
apples or dried fruit like plums, sometimes other fruit, I
don't know. It's to choose your own adventure kind of
side dish or main dish if you have enough protein
(03:53):
in there. Yeah, served family style usually, and the result
is intended to be warm and filling and like balanced
and comforting and nostalgic. It really like heralds the changing seasons. Yeah.
It can also be a little bit cloying and mushy.
(04:15):
It's it's like this is going to be contentious.
Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
It's like the pumpkin spice lotte of side dishes. It
doesn't have to be bad or basic. It is it
is what you make of it.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I will say, also, please don't yell at me. This
is just my personal sake. When I was reading about this,
I got a lot of vibes from like my experience
with ambrosia, where one you can read like any description
and none of them are even close to ching. But two,
(04:51):
like there were kind of two diverging paths when one
of them became very sweet, very like gelatinous.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah yeah, very cooked down stew kind of thing, yeah,
versus like a roasted pan of root vegetables.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Right, So that was just for my walk of life
when I was like that kind of remising of ambrosia,
oh yeah, oh.
Speaker 2 (05:15):
Yeah, yeah yeah. Another thing this might be reminding you
of if you are unfamiliar with zimis, you know, like
maybe the description is kind of making you go, this
just sounds like a holiday cast role it is.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
That is what it is.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
This is a dish made for big holiday dinners traditionally
celebrations of Russias Shana, which is the Jewish New Year
and the start of the high holiday period which falls
like September Ish every year.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
That the dish can also.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Be applied to other holiday dinners like Passover, and you know,
whatever other potluck situation you want to bring a roasted
root vegetable dish too. And okay, so a little bit
about Russiashana. As with many holidays and perhaps especially New
Year's celebrations, Russia Shana has a set of symbolic food
(06:03):
traditions attached. These foods are collectively called samanim heck, I
think I'm saying that right, saman I'm sure. Okay, let's
go with that though, okay. And one of the key
elements in Russiashana foods is sweetness, often expressed with apples
dipped in honey. That's kind of the classic. Maybe those
foods could be extrapolated out into ingredients and other dishes.
(06:27):
Maybe you dip some kala in honey. But there are
a bunch of traditional foods attached here, differing slightly among
different Jewish cultures, but can include round hola bread rather
than a longer loaf, the heads of lamb or fish, pomegranates, dates, leaks, beets,
(06:48):
string beans, pumpkin or other gourds, quints and sesame seeds,
and a lot of these like there are puns involved
with why they're associated with the New Year surrounding like
and beginnings and plenty and sweetness and also a lot
of those things would be heck and delicious in Zamus,
(07:10):
just saying, just saying, mm hmmm, sounds good. Yeah, carrots
are a new tradition, but I mean, you know, like
like if they're cut crosswise, they resemble coins and you know,
as a symbol of like wealth and plenty and stuff
like that. Sure, and furthermore, the idea behind this dish
is adaptability. This dish is a vibe, and you can
(07:34):
do whatever creates that vibe for you with what you
like and what you've got. The kind of standard American
version at this point is like carrots and sweet potatoes
with honey, chicken stock, orange juice, cinnamon, and prunes or
raisins or apricots. Yeah, people often ste it on the
stovetop because like that's easy. But y'all, I always recommend
(07:55):
roasting vegetables, roasting anything whenever possible. It's just so nice
you get that crisp anyway. But yeah, people can and
do add anything, you know, like corn and tomatoes, sure,
chili peppers and cilantro, Yeah, do you fresh ginger and pears,
some pineapple in there? Wine and bay leaves. Top it
(08:18):
with a cogal crust, Bake it up with some dumplings inside,
put some beans in, or pieces of chicken or short
ribs or brisket.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Oh oh, listeners, yes, oh yes, please, please please please.
Oh well, what about the nutrition.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Oh that depends.
Speaker 1 (08:42):
I'm getting that vibe.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
It tends to be a hearty, stick to your ribs
kind of dish. And and you might you might have
a lot of starch from some of those root vegetables,
but you know, yeah, it's I don't know, drink water,
have a nice time, have.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
A nice time. Yeah. Well, this one was hard to find.
Numbers four, but you found one right.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Kind of sort of okay. So for homemade dishes like this,
it's really difficult to track down. Like you don't really
have global production numbers for zimmis, Like that's not what's
going on in the world. But I can say that
there are intense spikes in Google searches for Zimmis every
April and September, meaning every passover in Russia Shana. The
(09:31):
top five countries searching for stuff about Zimmis are Israel, Ukraine, Russia, Poland,
and Belarus. And there has been a fairly steady decline
in searches over the past twenty years for the term zimmis.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. I found some impassioned articles about how
other people do zimmas compared to how they think they
zimmis should be done. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
So yeah, there's there's there's a lot of I mean
like it because it can be I mean, it's sort
of the difference between if you've ever had that dish
that a very well meaning relative brings out every holiday
that's kind of bland and mushy and like just perhaps
not the freshest or most interesting expression of a particular vegetable,
(10:27):
and then you have it and then you have like
a like a really nice, like crispy roasted Brussels sprout,
and you're like, oh my heck, this vegetable can taste
like this and it like rocks your world, and and
that can very much be the way that this dish goes.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah. Yeah, And I think we've talked about that before,
about like where's the line between I'm just doing this
dish because we always do this dish, oh yeah, yeah,
versus I maybe no one really wants this thing. Yeah,
that's what's going on here.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But sure, sure versus similar r it's something that you
actually want to eat, which which it can be, which
it totally can be. I got so hungry doing this research.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Oh my, heck, me too. I really I was trying
to think if I've ever had anything quite like this,
because I like the idea of like the chicken stock
and the sweetness and the meat and the carrot, like
I like, I like the idea of this amalgamation. I'm
just not sure. I'm trying to envision it.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'd liken it to like a the kind of sweet
potato cast role that isn't whipped but rather has like
chunks of sweet potatoes in it. Okay, but but right,
like like left turn at Albuquerque, Like to involve like
brisket instead of nuts and no marshmallow topping, honey honey instead.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
I don't know, sounds good to me? Sounds good to me.
But yes, we do have some history.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
For you, Oh we do, and we are going to
get into that as soon as we get back from
a quick break for a word from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsors, Yes, thank you, so yes.
Kind of like the numbers, the history of zemis is
difficult to pin down, and a lot of people trace
it back to this dish having at least one root
vegetable involved. So if that's the definition we're working off of,
(12:38):
most historians who have looked into this believe it traces
back to Jewish communities in Middle Ages Germany. It most
likely included turnips parsnips, along with some type of meat.
And yes, some think that carrots were added around the
fifteenth century.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Which was round about when carrots became kind of common
around like or th under Eastern Europe, or re became
common again. See our carrots episode for more on that.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Yeah, and as you mentioned, Lauren, because of their shape
when sliced, kind of like coins, they became symbolic of
luck and prosperity going into the New Year, which, speaking
of yes, starting around the Middle Ages in Europe all
the way up to the twentyth first century beyond, Zemis
(13:26):
became largely associated with Russiashana and the tradition of eating
sweet foods to Russian a sweet New Year. Another theory
around the addition of carrots is that carrots were one
of the few hardy, sweet tasting vegetables in Poland and
Russia because of that it became the sweet aspect of
(13:47):
this dish.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Especially before sugar became less expensive.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Yes, or that the name for carrot in German and
Yiddish means to grow or to multiply, or.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like or like plenty or or more like increasing kind
of concept. I'm not an expert in either of those languages,
so yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
No, we are, no, but people have looked into it.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yes, and there is in fact a kind of deeper
animalogical mess around this whole dish.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yes. Leah Hadad of Jewish food experience offers this explanation.
The first known use of the Yiddish word zemis is
from eighteen ninety two, and it is said to have
originated from the German word for side dish.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
Which is zumus. So yeah, you can hear that. You
can hear that.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
There's also a theory that it came from the German essen,
meaning to eat or for eating, or even that it's
related to the English word simmer. Modernly, though fun fun
with Yiddish, zimis is colloquially used to mean like a
(15:06):
fuss or commotion. So so I don't know, like like
you might you might like walk into a room and
just things are in a little bit of chaos, you know,
like what's with all the Zemish? Or if someone is
just making like an absolute dog's breakfast of something like,
you could be like, oh, man, like, how did you
make such a zemis out of this?
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Like that kind of idea dogs breakfast? I've never heard that.
I like it. I feel like it clearly communicates though
I know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, okay, I'm learning
a lot. One of the first known written recipes of zemis,
(15:51):
or at least kind of an early version of it,
came out of a thirteen ninety three non Jewish cookbook
called The Menagery Depity. It called for chopped gourds, carrots,
and turnips sweetened with honey. Much much later, in eighteen
ninety six, a Yiddish cookbook contained a recipe for stewing
turnips with sugar and schmaltz, which, by the way, the
(16:13):
author recommended topping that with breaded and fried calf spleen.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Ooh, I don't know about the spleen in particular, but
that sounds very fancy.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
It does sound very fancy, doesn't it. A nineteen hundred
menu out of a Kosher London restaurant included an item
called Kishka Sima Simma, which had chunks of beef and
beef intestines stuffed with flour, schmaltz and spices.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
The kishka portion. Yes and yeah, like the inclusion of meat.
And this is interesting because like, all right, if you've
ever cooked a family or holiday meal, you understand the
convenience of being able to put a protein and aside
in the oven. At the same time, this was even
(17:05):
more pronounced before the development of the modern kitchen, you know,
with with most homes in the developed world, you know,
having their own refrigeration and heating elements that work at
the turn of a dial or the press of a button.
Even you know, dials are outdated now here we are.
But yeah, just like meaning it was a bigger production
to cook anything. And so if it works to put
(17:29):
everything in one pan and shove that in the oven, heck,
yeah do it. I feel like today vegetable side dishes
are considered like why would you put meat in that
in American culture anyway, And I'm like, hey, because it's
gonna it's gonna do good things for the vegetables and
for the meat that's going to be tasty mm hmm,
yeah and can.
Speaker 1 (17:48):
Yeah, you're so right, because I mean, your outdated comments
stung a little bit. My kitchen is a little old,
and I got the old dials in the oven really
doesn't work that well. I got to time things very pardicular.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
Oh yeah, I.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Understand the value of this. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Yeah, I know as the new owner of a kitchen
that was built in nineteen sixty three, all of the
appliances in which are from nineteen sixty three.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Yes, I feel you.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
My oven and my range are separate, and only three
of my burner's work me too.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
But my favorite landlord thing he's ever done is one
time I was like, because the numbers had gotten rubbed
off on the dial, I was like, can we fix this?
His solution was he just wrote low and high. I
(18:50):
was like, I could do that.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Wow, that's Look.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
He got an oven thermometer.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And yeah, that's much better, much better.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Yeah. Anyway, Yes, So as Jewish folks in Germany migrated
across Europe, zemis went with them. As potatoes were brought
back from Europe were brought back to Europe from the Americas,
they ended up in the dish as well. But as
we've been saying throughout this over the decades, as ingredients
(19:25):
from around the globe became more available and affordable in
Europe or wherever, they ended up in it too, things
like pineapple, apricots, and plums, many of them symbolic in nature.
And I would love for listeners to write in because
I read a lot of different takes on the symbolism
of these things, which I love, but I would love
(19:46):
to hear from listeners about it. When Jewish people immigrated
to the US in the nineteenth century and kind of,
you know, big wave, they introduced the country to the dish.
The evolution of semis continue with the accessibility of ingredients
that may have previously been unavailable or too expensive, meaning
that more meat got added into the mix and more sugar.
(20:10):
And it really was a period of a lot of experimentation,
and all kinds of things got added in, from lima
beans to sweet potatoes. At the same time, this dish
arrived in South America with Jewish immigrants, and people adapted
it to local ingredients. There frequently sweet potatoes, corn, tomatoes, beans, carrots, peaches,
(20:31):
often served in a large squash with meat. Oh that
sounds are a dozen yeah, all right. In the cookbook
Jewish Cookery, first published in nineteen forty nine, there were
almost a dozen different varieties of Semis recipes, and the
Molly Goldberg Cookbook out of nineteen fifty five had this
(20:54):
quote about zemis. To define zimis would be a presumption.
I love that. Oh oh that's oh that's beautiful. It's
so good a presumption. Yes, yes, well, I am very
(21:14):
excited to hear from listeners about this one. All your
different arrieties, your takes, your traditions.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Oh yeah, yeah, what absolutely does and does not belong
in there?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Yeah. I did read an interesting article. I took it
out because I only found in this fact in one place,
but it was saying, like the decline of meat and
zemis in the United States, and it was kind of
decrying it but also explaining it. I couldn't tell how
much of it was like factual, how much of its opinion,
(21:43):
But sure, I thought it was interesting because this person
was very passionate. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I guess that's
what we have to say about Zemis for now.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
It is. We do already have some listener mail for you, though,
and we are going to get into that as soon
as we get back from one more quick break forward
from our sponsors, and we're back.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you, and went back with
this is new year. Yeah, Tina or Tenna Root. I
feel like we always do this question when you write in,
(22:36):
so please remind us. I remember being overjoyed when my
parents got his dinosaur egg. Oakia was a special street
when I was little. It made such an impression that
it's becoming a camping breakfast tradition for my own kids.
I also remember the oatmeal swirlies that you could add
jelly packets to, although apparently those lacked the staying power
(22:59):
of the quake powerhouse products. When we lived in Seattle,
there were blackberries everywhere. There were often herds of goats
next to the roads used to control the brambles. My
husband and I used to take our dog to it
near my park to pick blackberries. Our beagle mcguiver sniff
out the ripest berry and a clump, take it gently
(23:21):
in his teeth, and back up until it popped free.
He probably ate as many as we picked. In his honor.
We still make berry picking hound BlackBerry jam when we
have the chance. I'm attaching a photo of the late
mcguiver in his natural disgruntled state, he did not appreciate
the Bunny years. Guy, buddy, I love it. I love
(23:47):
that you still make this jam. I bet it's delicious.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Oh yeah, and that's a really good BlackBerry picking technique.
I feel like that's better than mine. So yeah, good come.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
But guy, for and goats, they got figured out. Also,
I love this note about dinosaur Eggo beyond sharing that
with your kids. Yeah, Lauren and I we were talking
about Jurassic Park before this started.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I definitely was huge into dinosaurs as a kid, and
I think if I, if I had had my way,
there would have been a lot of this.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Oh yeah, oh absolutely no, certainly. I was a sucker
for marketing at the time. I mean I still am.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
But you know, yeah, yeah, that dinosaur marketing. They really
they got it.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
They knew.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
I knew. I have a lot of dinosaur merchandise.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, why not? Why wouldn't you? Dinosaurs are cool man dinosaurs.
They're great, also scary but good but friends. Yeah, Paul wrote,
who could have predicted two episodes in a row that
I have personal experience with first Halluomi and now Fudge
(25:06):
love this podcast anyway, living in Northern Michigan leams. Mackinaw
Island is just a notch in.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
The belt for us.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
It's a great place for a change, despite the fudgies
and horsepoop, no motorized vehicles allowed. I'm with you two
regarding fudge. The first bite is almost too much. Regarding
tourist labels. While us in Northern Michigan refer to tourists
as fudgies, people who live in the up call tourists
trolls because the only way to get two Michigan's Upper
(25:36):
Peninsula from this area is to cross the famous Mackinaw
Bridge and what lives under bridges You guessed it, trolls.
The real story, however, is just south in Mackinaw City,
where there's a family that has taken over most of
the town. The original members of the family have been
there for decades, but when the current generation took over,
(25:56):
they used various questionable methods to get to the point
where they own most of the hotels, restaurants, and a
good many souvenir shops. You may already be familiar with
them from a video that went viral a few years
back of a hotel clerk being extremely rude to a
guest who is alerting him to her toilet leaking in
the early hours of the morning. One of the best
examples of the questionable practices is the website they created
(26:19):
to purposefully mimic the official Machinosity website. The official page
is macinacity dot com. The family's website is macinaw Hyphencity
dot com. Notice the second website is titled Macinocity Chamber
of Tourism. Macinocity does not have a Chamber of Tourism.
All businesses on this site are owned by this family. Wow,
(26:48):
cut roads and that, to employ another Yiddish term is
sub kutzpah right there.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Really, I went and visited both of them. They're definitely
holding some tricks there.
Speaker 2 (27:09):
Woo.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I feel like I because I came from a small
town who's very tourist based, and there was stuff like
this that happened in our town too. There is a
family that has a lot of power, has bought a
lot of the like I would not be surprised, all right,
these tactics like this.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Small town drama, Oh.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
Small town drama. Oh my gosh, but I'm glad he wrote.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
In Yeah this is fascinating.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, oh it is, because that's just such a personal like.
We wouldn't necessarily find that in a research. We didn't,
so that's really cool. And I love the differences between
what they call tourists and the up. My roommate from
Machine called it the up. But maybe she was lying
to me. Oh oh oh I was. I was.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
As I was reading that, I was realizing that I
had no idea how to say it out loud. I've
only ever seen it in print. I haven't heard it.
So oh, she was the type that could have been
lying to me.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
I loved her, but she's definitely like the most deadpan No,
I can't read the listeners listen. Yeah, yes, but this
did remind me. I went on a rabbit hole of
Seinfeld related food oh clips, and I found one about
the Macanaw peaches, Jerry, the maccanol peaches. I don't know
(28:41):
if it's related to this, but I was like, ha,
then there you go again. Listeners. You can let us know. Yes, well,
thanks to both of these listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, we would love
to hear from you. Our email is hello atapod dot
com and we are.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Also on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at Saver pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Save is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks as always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
(29:22):
that lots more good things are coming your way.
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Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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