May 1, 2023 • 41 mins
These multilayered, folded cartons weren’t originally designed with juice in mind, and today they help make many drinks and foods shelf stable. Anney and Lauren pop open the science and history of juice boxes.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm more in Vocal Bomb, and today we have
an episode for you about juice boxes and or cartons
and or beverage of that thing. Yes, mostly like the cartons,
I would say, sure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Was there any particular reason this one was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Was there? Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I think I was just trying to trying to find
another kind of more technological episode that we could do, uh,
because and I was like, what would juice boxes?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What's going on with those?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And uh? Perhaps perhaps I'd like, you've been been like
like doing my my, my grocery sweep and uh and
it's like all of these wine boxes are happening.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What's up? Yeah? I do love a good wine box.
We'll talk about that very briefly in this. I'm not
I was thinking about this because I juice boxes generally
fall under the very wide cheating category. I have of
my five things I don't like, and one of them
(01:23):
is like artificial fruit flavoring. Oh Okay, some of it
can be fine, but most of it I don't like.
But I still get nostalgic for them every now and
then when it's like really hot in the summer. Yeah,
And even as a kid, I didn't really like like
Caprice Son, but there was something about like Nickelodeon telling
me capri Son, You've got to have it when it's hot, Like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We are not talking a lot about the Caprice Son
thing today. I feel like that's a different episode. There
are a lot of a lot of little side quests
on this one that I think that we're gonna have
to come back to it a later time and date.
But but yeah, that was I do. I do remember,
like like like a Hawaiian punch flavor is a favorite
of mine, that good fruit punch kind of situation where
(02:08):
you're like what fruit is that nobody knows? And for
sure in terms of an actual box of juice, juice
and heavy in heavy quotes, I was high key obsessed
with the high Sea Ecdo coolers ah when I was
(02:29):
growing up because I was so into Ghostbusters yea, and
I was so into Slimer. And if you told me
that this was Slimer's drink of choice, I was there.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I love That's how they got you, right, That's what
I suspected when you said the name and you confirmed it. Yeah, yeah,
I got a lot of fun stuff like that going on.
For sure. I did, Like I remember having if we
went on a field trip, it'd be part of kind
of the juice boxes would be part of kind of
(03:04):
the bags they would give you. For sure, I did
like that, but it was more about the we're on a.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Field trip right right now, and that kind of excitement
does does, right, like build a nostalgia for product, even
if the product itself wasn't your very favorite thing. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, Well, I will say for this one, the expiration
date episode. Yeah, yeah, you might want to check out.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Maybe types of milk, which might sound strange off off
the top, but I believe me it's going to come up. Yes,
onded it is. But I guess that brings us to
our question. Yeah, sure, juice boxes, what are they? Well,
(03:50):
a juice box, otherwise known as a juice carton or
perhaps more widely, a drink carton, is a type of
multi layered packaging meant to can juice or some other
beverage safely at room temperature for up to about a
year without a risk of the beverage spoiling. And there
are different ways of doing this, but it generally involves
(04:13):
sterilizing both the beverage and the packaging, and the layers
of these cartons are typically thin plastics that are sandwiching
inner layers of paper and aluminum foil like a big
mac okay. So the inside the paper is providing structure,
the foil is providing protection from light and oxygen, and
(04:35):
then the plastics are a moisture barrier on the inside
and the outside and everything in between. They're protecting the
other layers and providing material for a seal because you
can melt plastic together in precisely the way that you
cannot with paper or well, aluminum a little bit, but anyway,
(04:55):
these cartons are often single serving and come with like
a small straw or some kind of sippy lid of
some kind like like easily opened and usually not resealable.
Sometimes you might get a cap on there. The entire
package is disposable, and the idea is, yeah, that you
have this portable beverage that doesn't need refrigeration and doesn't
need a whole lot of preservatives to get it to
(05:17):
that point. It's sort of like it's sort of like
the forty Chess of beverages, Like it's not quite what
you're used to, and it's pretty confounding, but in like.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
A fun way. I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, as geometry involved. Yeah, so I and I do
love that. Like we spent basically all of human history
figuring out refrigeration and then turned right around and immediately said, wait,
hold on, sometimes we still need stuff that's not refrigerated,
act and spent all this time and money developing this. Yes, yes, yeah,
(06:02):
and right, although certainly in the United States we think
of probably juice first being boxed up like this, so
you can put a range of beverages and other liquids
in these sorts of packages, from milk to.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Soup to wine.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And within this family of drink carton packaging, there are
a bunch of different processes and technologies that can be used,
depending on what product you're packaging and its intended use.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Traditionally, there have.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Been like quality trade offs for the convenience of shelf stability,
because pasteurizing a drink generally involves heating it, however briefly,
which can break down micronutrients and flavor molecules. Some new
technologies involve using pressure instead of temperature, so I don't
know be on the lookout for those. To create these packages,
(06:55):
the layers are pressed together and laminated in these large
sheets that are then cut into individual pieces, folded into
form like origami, sterilized, and filled. They are typically box
shaped because that is the easiest to transport in large quantities,
no other reason.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And there's all kinds of like side technology that works
its way into the production process. I randomly came across
this company that was promoting its AI driven straw detection capacity,
like it will set up on your production line and
(07:36):
use imaging to check for the presence and possible damage
to the straw on the side of your juice box.
And I'm like, heck, yeah, all right, whoa right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And all of this is It's useful to consumers because, right,
you don't have to worry about the product going bad
if you don't use it right away, and you don't
have to worry about keeping it refrigerated. It's useful to
producers because you can stagger production and distribution that this
helps prevent shortages. The downsides are that these products can
(08:13):
be more expensive than fresh alternatives, like in the case
of milk, due to those processing costs. Also the aforementioned
quality control and not quality control like quality issues in
terms of flavor and nutrition. Also, while we're talking upsides
(08:34):
and downsides, there's been a lot of back and forth
about the environmental friendliness of the sort of packaging. On
the upside, like, okay, the companies that make them have
been industrial leaders in setting and reaching goals for net
carbon zero production. Plus, the packages are lightweight and don't
(08:57):
need refrigeration during transport, so that reduces your transportation energy costs.
They can also reduce waste, like, for example, in a
school cafeteria, if kids aren't taking fresh milk, it'll go
bad within like a week, but boxed milk will stay
good pretty much until someone chooses to pick it up. Also,
(09:19):
the packages do involve like less overall material than many
other types of packaging, depending on how thin you can
get your ear. Plastic or I mean, you know, glass
is clearly like a lot more material than other than
other stuff. But these cartons are more difficult to recycle
and require specific facilities. Those layers have to be separated.
(09:41):
The process is called hydropulping. Hydropulping hydra pulping.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Sounds both missing and exciting, right well, what about the nutrits.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Don't don't eat the packaging. This is not Willy Wonka.
All right, I guess I'll note here that there is
ongoing drama, not even debate, but like drama about the
nutritional value of juice, especially for kids, And this is
(10:20):
not that episode. Like, yes, fruit juices, even one hundred
percent fruit juices, are a lot of sugar without any fiber,
But treats are nice. And furthermore, like, if a juice
box is the only way that you can get your
kid to consume a calorie and or a vitamin, go
for it, like you do you Like I'm I'm exhausted,
(10:41):
and I don't have children. I cannot imagine Yell's level
of exhaustion.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So like, so do it? If that's what's up? Yes, indeed, Uh, well,
we do have some numbers for you, we do. Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
So Tetra Pak, which is uh the original and leading
supplier of this type of packaging. They're huge. They have
some twenty three thousand employees working around the world, and
in twenty sixteen alone, they sold one hundred and eighty
eight billion packages in one hundred and seventy five countries.
(11:19):
I will say this does include non drink carton packages
because they also package everything from like ice cream to
vegetables to pet food.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But it is a big.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Industry and it's a pretty steep buy in for smaller
companies to get set up. One of the higher levels
of hygiene, being an aseptic processing plant, will cost over
one hundred million dollars just to get started, and that's
not accounting for any of the costs of keeping that
up and all of the other safety regulatory kind of
(11:53):
issues that you're looking at. And I know that I
talked about recycling a second ago, but the ability to
recycle these drink cartons is growing. As of twenty ten,
there were only about forty programs worldwide that could handle them,
but as of twenty twenty three, they're over two hundred.
(12:13):
That's it's better.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
TetraPak says they invested close to thirty three million dollars
in recycling projects around the world just in twenty twenty two,
and that they're planning on upping that amount as of
this year.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I've got a world record for.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You, Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The fastest time to set up and then topple ten
juice cartons was achieved in the Netherlands in twenty nineteen
at just five point four to one seconds. Dang right, Like,
I'm not exactly sure what that looks like, but it
(12:54):
seems impressive.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It does. I think there'd have to be a lot
of practice involved, a.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Lot of plan yeah, yeah, eye hand coordination, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And then you get to tell people yeah, and then
explain it to them, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Another one, as far as I'm aware, the largest number
of drink boxes toppled like dominoes was achieved in Singapore
in twenty twenty one, when a secondary school toppled eight
hundred Marigold brand juice boxes.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And then I'm guessing they drank them.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
They seemed unharmed. So yeah, it was in a cute
little like heart shape. It was nice, it was full yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And speaking of.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Awe, another human interest number for you, there's an organization
in Houston called Kids Meals that works to provide simple,
packed lunches to preschoolers during the summer when school is
out and you know, kids don't have access to a
school lunch program, And they host a Summer Juice Box
Challenge every year to collect some of the seven hundred
(14:05):
and thirty thousand juice boxes that they give out every summer.
Like teams sign up, there is hypothetically friendly trash talking
folks delivered their donations in creative ways, like on horseback
or with choreographed dances.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That's the whole thing that is cute. Yeah, okay, Well,
if anybody's participated in that, please let us know. Oh yeah, huh, yes,
But we do have quite the history for you.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh we do, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And we're back thik you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So,
as you've kind of mentioned throughout already, Lauren, the history
of the juice box, of our modern day juice box,
largely comes from the increase in concerned people had around
cleanliness and sanitary food products. Yes, and the juice box
(15:09):
was an innovation around just that, but a lot of
it is rooted in the long battle to make drinking
milk safer. Oh. People were so concerned about this, and
rightfully so, because if you remember from our other episodes
like expiration dates, prior to widespread refrigeration, milk was a
very tricky product to keep safe and bad milk could
(15:33):
cause some pretty serious consequences when it was consumed, especially
in babies. So yes, yeah, h And for a long time,
when we were kind of entering the industrial era, consumers
were typically in charge of cleaning and filling their metal
milk containers. I think a lot of us have seen
that in some of our media. The US dairy industry
(15:56):
offered glass milk jars that they would clean them, which
led to some local monopolies over milk markets thanks to
the collection system, because basically they were the only ones
who were going to clean these jars, so you're stuck
with them.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And if they're the only ones delivering and backing up
the bottles, then yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So paper packaged milk, which did not rely on this
collection system, could really change the whole game because then
you wouldn't be relying on the distributors, and distributors could
sell these paper products much farther out than dairies that
relied on collecting these glass bottles.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, and I was reading I was reading up on
this and as I did, I have to tell you, guys,
it introduced me to just an absolute nightmare phrase. Loose milk,
oh no like as opposed to packaged milk. You have
loose milk.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It feels like it. There's a number of phrases they
could have gone with instead of that, but they went
with loose milk. And here we are anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, that's that's on my new list, my newly collected
list of just completely weird gross phrases.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh I can't wait to see the rest of his list.
Nightmare fuel exactly what I need?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Okay, anyway, anyway, yes, okay. So we have this concern
about being cleanly in what we choose to consume. We
have the use glass slash metal containers for getting milk,
and then we have people who are trying to find
a different way, these paper packaged ways to offer milk.
(17:52):
All right, so let us start with GW. Maxwell, an
American inventor who came up with the paper milk. It
was generally shaped like a drinking glass and it had
this paper lid that was clamped down to close it.
I think most of us have probably seen something like
that too. John Van Warmer patented something similar called the
Pure pack in nineteen fifteen. It was a paper milk
(18:16):
bottle that was called the paper bottle.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Okay, but also, as you were kind of mentioning Lauren.
It gives us a bit of a headache now, but
at the time, the fact that you used this product
and then tossed it away instead of reusing it was
seen as a plus in terms of cleanliness, and that's
why they called it puerback. The legend goes that Van
Warmer was inspired to come up with this idea after
(18:40):
dropping a bottle of milk, and I imagine the most
infomercial like there's gotta be a better way.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Oh yeah, Oh, And I will say that this issue
of tossing something instead of reusing it was a really
major marketing factor through the mid century. In a previous
previous job lifetime, I was going through some of the
archives of Dixie Cup commercials and like it was a
(19:11):
big selling point, like like you can just throw it away,
and right these days were like oh oh no, probably not,
but right time is seen as very modern.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, it was very modern. And also you know, if
you don't if you're not thinking about the environmental aspect,
it's nice you don't have to wash it.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, still a selling point, Still.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
A selling point. Another piece of this whole story has
to do with self serve grocery stores. And okay, so
to our modern ears, at least to my modern ears,
this sounds a bit odd, but at one time, grocery
stores required employees to package up the shoppers groceries like
you'd give them a list and they would go gather everything.
(19:54):
And it was a grocery store chain that some of
you might have heard of, Higgly Wiggily that often gets
the credit for introducing self service shopping to the US,
and thanks in part to this idea, Pickli Wiggily was
pretty profitable right away. Here's a note about it from
a trade publication at the time. The self service system
(20:16):
cut three hundred dollars per month from expenses and showed
a gain of eighty thousand dollars in sales. WHOA, yeah,
pretty big deal. Huh.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That's okay, that's a separate episode.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
But cool.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Continue.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, I know, I know. As successful as it was, though,
the system was still pretty limited to the US. In
the nineteen twenties, that changed with this Swedish businessman named
Reuben Rousing. He had never seen a self served grocery
store before, but when he was studying at Columbia University,
he saw one, and he was like this is amazing,
(20:54):
and also packaging is about to become a way bigger deal.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Oh sure, yeah, yeah, again, you don't have all that
loose milk floating around, so you're gonna need You're gonna
need some prepackaged goods. Yeah, you can't just throw loose
milk randomly into a conversation, Lauren. Sorry, I wasn't anticipating it, Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Well. Rousing returned to Sweden after his schooling in the US,
and he spent ten years working for a printing company
before he got enough leverage to launch his own packaging business,
so this has really been in the back of his mind.
At first, they mostly packaged things like sugar other dry goods,
but by about World War Two they were focusing on
(21:42):
packages for liquids and they mainly used paperboard to do that.
This eventually led Rousing to the Tetra pack. According to
the company, he got the idea after watching his wife
make sausages. I love how they don't expand upon it anymore.
I have imagination and I can kind of figure it out,
but they don't really go into any more depth, just.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Like, oh, I guess it's like casing.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, like quid and sausages like filling a casing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, that's that's what I assume, but they really didn't
explain and cool, okay, we'll go with it. Another inventor
at the company, though, was the one that really made
this packaging happen. His name was Eric Wallenberg. After some experimentation,
(22:35):
the package was sealed with only three twists and now
this packaging and doing it that way saved some money
on the manufacturing side, but it did result in a
unique shaped product. As the name suggest, it was a
tetrahedron or a four sided triangle pyramid.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
If you if you're not quite sure what we're talking about,
if you look it up, you'll be like, oh, yeah,
I've seen.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
That pyramid shap Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Despite that, it did have a bunch of positives, mainly that,
when properly used, it kept milk from spoiling and it
didn't even necessarily have to be refrigerated. Soon after the
tetra pack was introduced, Rousing created a subsidiary of his
company named after that product. They did not stop at
the tetra pact, though, they introduced a septic packaging in
(23:25):
nineteen sixty one, Basically, through a bunch of innovations around manufacturing, packaging,
and chemical treatment, they created shelf stable packaging that increased
shelf life without the need for refrigeration.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And this was really a very big deal. Around the
turn of the twenty first century. The Institute of Food
Technologists would call this and I quote the most significant
food science innovation of the last fifty years.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Wow, And that was when a lot of stuff was
going on. Yeah, right, right h Then came the tetra brick,
which was a more rectangular shape to make it easier
for shipping and storing and shopping. However, Americans are still
pretty wary of getting milk in this product because they
were so accustomed to milk products that needed refrigeration. The
(24:15):
dairies were too, and the cost of changing infrastructures and
mindsets was very daunting. However, not every American owned a refrigerator,
so Tetra pac producers saw some pass to success in
the country. And this mora or less brings us to
the juice part of juice box, right, because the thinking
was that if Americans wouldn't buy milk in this packaging,
(24:38):
maybe they would buy juice. Yeah yeah, and just to
throw us in here. There were a couple of products
being offered around this time. Already the German market offered
a juice based concentrate package and a pouch from Wild
Flavors in nineteen sixty nine, and it was called Capri
(24:59):
Soon s n e okay, yes, and Capri after the
Italian island had the same name. It was pretty successful
in Europe, but it took over ten years before the
product made its way to the US, where it was
sold under the name Caprice's Son Sun.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, a whole whole separate episode.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I look forward to diving into that someday, me too,
And all the nineties commercials, Oh my, watch this.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Did I have a friend who was in one of
those commercials? Anyways, please let's continue, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
All right. One of the first companies to really capitalize
on the juice box in the US was a company
named Apple and Eve Clever I guess. They started offering
a two hundred millilter tetrabrick aceptic of juice in nineteen
eighty two. It was rectangular and complete with a straw.
(25:53):
Ads for it lauded the fact that it didn't need
refrigeration it could last six months was good for people
on the go, didn't have a tenny or plastic taste,
that a lot of people had associated with some of these,
and that it was economical. A year later, in nineteen
eighty three, Coca Cola subsidiary Minute Made launched their own version.
(26:15):
I See entered the ring. Soon after. They had ads
running nationwide on TV. America's version of tetra Pack, Brickpack,
saw a massive increase in sales, jumping by one hundred
million dollars in nineteen eighty three. Wow. Yeah, yeah. They
had to scramble to meet demand. It was such a
sun jump. Some estimates suggest that in the eighties, juice
(26:38):
boxes accounted for one fifth of the juice market in
the United States.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
This this rise is so wild to me because I like,
I'm a child of the eighties, and so I grew
up with these. I had no idea they did not
exist before I did. Like, that's like, I just assumed
that this was a staple for all school kids forever.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, I did too. I was shot to have relatively
recent yeah. Yeah, So they found this huge success here
in the US. Finally Tetrapac had done it, but there
was a problem. By the late eighties and early nineties,
environmentalists were sounding the alarm about the waste created by
(27:20):
juice boxes. Tetra pack spokespeople responded to these concerns by
saying it was about safety and there were no frivolous
there's Basically they were saying that there's nothing we could
cut out.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's already streamlined believe us. Yeah, yes, And to be
fair to them, there are arguments to be had about
their packaging saving materials, especially when it comes to providing
a shelf stable product, some of those you mentioned, Lauren,
and they've looked into alternate packaging materials like plant based packaging.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Also in response to all of this, in nineteen eighty nine,
a trade association popped up in the US called the
Aseptic Packaging Council, and they have spearheaded industry and marketing
incentives to add nutritional supplements to juice boxes to make
them healthier, and to promote recycling and to tell everyone
(28:15):
far and wide about it.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yes, yes, And just a note here. When Rousing died
in the nineteen eighties, he and his family were incredibly wealthy.
His son was the second wealthiest man in Sweden when
he died in twenty nineteen. Yeah, and there is some
drama here because, as I said earlier, many suggest that
despite Rousing's name on the patent, it really wasn't him
(28:40):
that did a lot of the work.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
All right, okay, Well, a totally separate note. Even with
all of the research and development into cleanliness that's in place,
mishaps can happen. For example, from a twenty eight to
twenty ten, there was a safety investigation in Canada that
(29:05):
led to the destruction of one hundred thousand Dull juice
boxes due to improper handling during distribution that had weakened
the seams and allowed microbial growth.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Just a good.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Reminder that our food industry requires all points to be
operating with care in order to keep consumers safe. Also,
as with anything, if you ever noticed bloating or leaking
in a packaged good, throw that away. You don't need
that one. Yeah, yeah, not that one.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah. Kind of a related note, I did find some
recent articles about adult juice boxes and why they haven't
seemed to take off. There has been a lott of
tries to get them to take off. The consensus seems
to be it's because we associate them with kids, and
or there are actual laws banning them because kids might
(29:56):
drink them thinking that they are for them. Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Interesting okay, And yes, a research and development is ongoing
as of this ear TetraPak is investing in this advanced
imaging technique to help look at the nanostructure of fiber
materials such as paper, with the idea of optimizing paper
straws for use with their products.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, there really is a lot of research growing into
these there there is so much. There is just an
infinite amount that right like, I did not I could
not go into all of it. But I do find
all of this, especially that that psychological angle is super
interesting to me because I think the first time that
(30:46):
I saw like sake packaged in a little juice box,
I got so excited.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
I was like, it's a juice box but for me
me too?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, And I don't know, so like right, like it's
a weird nostalgia play, but I could see why some
people and some councils would be not into that being
a thing.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah. Yeah, And I should also say like most of
the examples I saw were alcoholic, but some of them weren't.
I think they were just trying to be like adults.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
You like juice too, Yeah, here's a right, yeah, which
is also interesting because you could still drink a juice
fox quote for kids. It's just sure, right, like you said, interesting,
look at the human psyche.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I mean I have friends who will like drink a
juice box as a treat.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I have friends who will like lose their minds if
a certain type of juice box shows up at an event.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I like can't take the sugar
like that's one thing. Like I know that I'm going
to become everybody's problem if I just have like a
shot of sugar like that.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Right, right, Well, listeners, if you've got a favorite, if
you've got nostalgia feelings, yeah, please let us know.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Huh yes, also belatedly drink responsibly. But right, we do
have some listener mail already prepared for you, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with SPO. I feel like all juice box
commercials were like that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Gods, it was the air of like extreme I don't
know if they're doing that anymore, but that's fair.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Think they are nineties.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, lots of like day glow colors and skate skateboards yep,
maybe some serve boarding anyway, Okay, Jared wrote, as I've
been working my way through a backhock of episodes to
try to catch out to current.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I recently listened to the Kindishes episode. I had a
spark of inspiration and wanted to share my results. I
used Pillsbury Crescent rolldo, some caramelized onions, and instant mashed potatoes.
They turned out tasty, but I don't know how I'm
close to authentic they taste as I've never actually had Kindishes,
but the episode, in my attempt at them, has made
me want to try the real deal.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Ooh yeah, I feel I feel like the I feel
like the dough texture would be a little off, like
like you want something a little bit chewier for like
a for like a kinish dough concept. But that being said,
like anytime and I think I said this in the episode,
but anytime that you put potatoes in dough and then
I eat it, I'm happy about that. Yeah, yeah, I
(33:55):
mean sounds great.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
That sounds delicious. And I think I've said before too,
like I love just give me that crescent roll and
I put stuff in the ashir Yeah too, miraculous, so wonderful.
Oh yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Now I'm like, but what if I did that every day?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That would be so good?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Okay, Nathan wrote first, thanks for reading my email about
Robert Irvine's subtle, probably not intentional racism. And I hope
that I'm getting his name right. I remember us going
through a whole thing before, and I'm tired today. I don't.
I can't, but sure that guy continues. As I said before,
(34:37):
the cooking world is making a turn towards inclusivity, but
it still happens and needs to be called out. Competition
shows can be grading by the machismo of French trained
dudes that think they're better than everyone just because they
had the money to go to the CIA or something.
One that bucks this trend is Guy Fieri's Tournament of Champions.
This show pits the chefs, who are typically the judge
(35:00):
of other shows, against each other in a March Madness
esque bracket challenge. In the four seasons, all the champions
have been women, two of them women of color. In
these shows and my career as a chef, I've seen
that the women are really just better all around. I
think it's the drive to break the glass ceiling and
the need to be so much better than male counterparts
(35:20):
for them to get noticed. This shouldn't be groundbreaking, especially
to you too. But another part I've noticed is when
the people of color cook, they went a lot too
looking specifically at meat Shohan. She's an Indian chef who
got French style training. This combination of flavors and the
technique really do seem to be a winning combination for
(35:40):
the Western dominated competitions that we see here. Next, you
were wanting a recipe for grilled watermelon fatus salad.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Here's a good one.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Make sure your grill is super hot.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
You don't want your watermelon to get squishy by sitting
on there too long. It's kind of like a rare steak.
Just get that mayor reaction on and you're good. Then
make some quinoa and cool it down. Toss the two
together with some mint or basil. Both are good, as
well as the feta or goat cheese. If you want,
squeeze a bit of lemon in there, always being the
acid drizzle it with some balsamic glaze and you're good.
(36:15):
I think next time I'm going to throw some Fresno
chilis in it. I've been on a Fresno chili kick lately.
Next the episode, I'm currently listening to Polenta so good.
My bass polenta is a four to one ratio of
chicken stock to polenta. I use the Golden Pheasant brand
stir while it cooks, but not as much as a risotto.
(36:36):
You can adjust your consistency if you want. From there,
finish it with some butter and cheese. Parmesan is my
go too, but I found a smoked goat Gouda in
my local store recently that's fantastic. In it. Don't forget
the salt and pepper frying it is so good. I
do fontina in it when I fry it. Then I
layer it with arabiata sauce and fresh mozzarella and get
(36:56):
a nice stack of deliciousness. I also like to top
it with a porn shoulder raggu with a balsonic glaze. Last,
but not least, I think I figured out how to
finally do the dreaded GMO episode. A collaboration and what
better show to pair with than behind the Bastards. You
both have connections to the show. Annie, your other co host,
(37:18):
has already been a guest Lauren, you're part of the
union thing with fellow Cool Zone host Mia. And yes,
I saw that Twitter conversation about trist la Chis. Robert
has already done a collaboration when he teamed up with
prop of Hood Politics to do how Iran Contra tied
into the crack epidemic. I think it's time for this
epic team up. It would also work well with the
sugar industry and corn syrup. Probably it would hofta. I
(37:44):
mean not no, but cuel Oh okay, all of that
food sounds so delicious.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yes, yes, I just made polinta. Oh that's right. Yeah,
how did it? God? Oh it was so good. It
was so good, and I realized, like how to make it?
I figured how I could fry it? Now, Okay, at
first I couldn't envision it, and now I'm like, okay, no,
I see, but I made it with chicken stock and
(38:20):
parmesan salt, pepper, a bunch of like spices, and then
I had like a mushroom tomato sauce. Oh it was
so good. Wow, I was very impressive. Oh awesome. Oh
I'm so glad. Yeah, yes, yes, but these are good tips,
so I'm I have a whole bag of it now,
so I mean yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Also, that that guy Fieri tournament show sounds delightful.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I'm in the we.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Actually we didn't like meet him, but we got to
see him up close in action when we were in
New Orleans with super producer Della and a long long,
long time ago, and he was so kind and genuine
and he was like really making an effort to talk
to all of the cooks who came up to him,
like the young up and coming cooks are just they're
(39:13):
just how hopeful home cooks and like really like shake
all of their hands and like make time for them.
And it like it made me so happy. Like I
know that being sincere about a guy who's that sincere
is like kind of like quote unquote cringe, but I
think I think it's adorable. I'm like heck, yeah, yeah, yeah, happy, Yeah,
(39:35):
it was nice.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, And these are great insights because I think when
we talked about that, I said I didn't know much
about kind of this world of uh food television and
competition and stuff. Like that, So always appreciate from people
who do know.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah and hoofta yeah again right like that. Yeah, the
GMO the GMO episode. Who, Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Maybe maybe a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Is an order. Maybe maybe I mean we're gonna need
the help. Absolutely, yes, yes, yes, yes, and thank you
for the water villain recipe. That sounds great. Yeah, summer
is on the way, so it's time time. Yes. Well,
(40:31):
thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can our
emails hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
We are also on social media.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
To your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thanks it's always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, and welcome to Savor Prediction of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie Reese.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm more in Vocal Bomb, and today we have
an episode for you about juice boxes and or cartons
and or beverage of that thing. Yes, mostly like the cartons,
I would say, sure, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Was there any particular reason this one was on your mind?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
Was there? Uh?
Speaker 2 (00:34):
I think I was just trying to trying to find
another kind of more technological episode that we could do, uh,
because and I was like, what would juice boxes?
Speaker 1 (00:46):
What's going on with those?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Huh?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
And uh? Perhaps perhaps I'd like, you've been been like
like doing my my, my grocery sweep and uh and
it's like all of these wine boxes are happening.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
What's up? Yeah? I do love a good wine box.
We'll talk about that very briefly in this. I'm not
I was thinking about this because I juice boxes generally
fall under the very wide cheating category. I have of
my five things I don't like, and one of them
(01:23):
is like artificial fruit flavoring. Oh Okay, some of it
can be fine, but most of it I don't like.
But I still get nostalgic for them every now and
then when it's like really hot in the summer. Yeah,
And even as a kid, I didn't really like like
Caprice Son, but there was something about like Nickelodeon telling
me capri Son, You've got to have it when it's hot, Like, Okay.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
We are not talking a lot about the Caprice Son
thing today. I feel like that's a different episode. There
are a lot of a lot of little side quests
on this one that I think that we're gonna have
to come back to it a later time and date.
But but yeah, that was I do. I do remember,
like like like a Hawaiian punch flavor is a favorite
of mine, that good fruit punch kind of situation where
(02:08):
you're like what fruit is that nobody knows? And for
sure in terms of an actual box of juice, juice
and heavy in heavy quotes, I was high key obsessed
with the high Sea Ecdo coolers ah when I was
(02:29):
growing up because I was so into Ghostbusters yea, and
I was so into Slimer. And if you told me
that this was Slimer's drink of choice, I was there.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I love That's how they got you, right, That's what
I suspected when you said the name and you confirmed it. Yeah, yeah,
I got a lot of fun stuff like that going on.
For sure. I did, Like I remember having if we
went on a field trip, it'd be part of kind
of the juice boxes would be part of kind of
(03:04):
the bags they would give you. For sure, I did
like that, but it was more about the we're on a.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
Field trip right right now, and that kind of excitement
does does, right, like build a nostalgia for product, even
if the product itself wasn't your very favorite thing. Right.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Yeah, Well, I will say for this one, the expiration
date episode. Yeah, yeah, you might want to check out.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Maybe types of milk, which might sound strange off off
the top, but I believe me it's going to come up. Yes,
onded it is. But I guess that brings us to
our question. Yeah, sure, juice boxes, what are they? Well,
(03:50):
a juice box, otherwise known as a juice carton or
perhaps more widely, a drink carton, is a type of
multi layered packaging meant to can juice or some other
beverage safely at room temperature for up to about a
year without a risk of the beverage spoiling. And there
are different ways of doing this, but it generally involves
(04:13):
sterilizing both the beverage and the packaging, and the layers
of these cartons are typically thin plastics that are sandwiching
inner layers of paper and aluminum foil like a big
mac okay. So the inside the paper is providing structure,
the foil is providing protection from light and oxygen, and
(04:35):
then the plastics are a moisture barrier on the inside
and the outside and everything in between. They're protecting the
other layers and providing material for a seal because you
can melt plastic together in precisely the way that you
cannot with paper or well, aluminum a little bit, but anyway,
(04:55):
these cartons are often single serving and come with like
a small straw or some kind of sippy lid of
some kind like like easily opened and usually not resealable.
Sometimes you might get a cap on there. The entire
package is disposable, and the idea is, yeah, that you
have this portable beverage that doesn't need refrigeration and doesn't
need a whole lot of preservatives to get it to
(05:17):
that point. It's sort of like it's sort of like
the forty Chess of beverages, Like it's not quite what
you're used to, and it's pretty confounding, but in like.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
A fun way. I like it.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
Yeah, as geometry involved. Yeah, so I and I do
love that. Like we spent basically all of human history
figuring out refrigeration and then turned right around and immediately said, wait,
hold on, sometimes we still need stuff that's not refrigerated,
act and spent all this time and money developing this. Yes, yes, yeah,
(06:02):
and right, although certainly in the United States we think
of probably juice first being boxed up like this, so
you can put a range of beverages and other liquids
in these sorts of packages, from milk to.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
Soup to wine.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
And within this family of drink carton packaging, there are
a bunch of different processes and technologies that can be used,
depending on what product you're packaging and its intended use.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Traditionally, there have.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Been like quality trade offs for the convenience of shelf stability,
because pasteurizing a drink generally involves heating it, however briefly,
which can break down micronutrients and flavor molecules. Some new
technologies involve using pressure instead of temperature, so I don't
know be on the lookout for those. To create these packages,
(06:55):
the layers are pressed together and laminated in these large
sheets that are then cut into individual pieces, folded into
form like origami, sterilized, and filled. They are typically box
shaped because that is the easiest to transport in large quantities,
no other reason.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
That's it.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
And there's all kinds of like side technology that works
its way into the production process. I randomly came across
this company that was promoting its AI driven straw detection capacity,
like it will set up on your production line and
(07:36):
use imaging to check for the presence and possible damage
to the straw on the side of your juice box.
And I'm like, heck, yeah, all right, whoa right, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:48):
So cool.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And all of this is It's useful to consumers because, right,
you don't have to worry about the product going bad
if you don't use it right away, and you don't
have to worry about keeping it refrigerated. It's useful to
producers because you can stagger production and distribution that this
helps prevent shortages. The downsides are that these products can
(08:13):
be more expensive than fresh alternatives, like in the case
of milk, due to those processing costs. Also the aforementioned
quality control and not quality control like quality issues in
terms of flavor and nutrition. Also, while we're talking upsides
(08:34):
and downsides, there's been a lot of back and forth
about the environmental friendliness of the sort of packaging. On
the upside, like, okay, the companies that make them have
been industrial leaders in setting and reaching goals for net
carbon zero production. Plus, the packages are lightweight and don't
(08:57):
need refrigeration during transport, so that reduces your transportation energy costs.
They can also reduce waste, like, for example, in a
school cafeteria, if kids aren't taking fresh milk, it'll go
bad within like a week, but boxed milk will stay
good pretty much until someone chooses to pick it up. Also,
(09:19):
the packages do involve like less overall material than many
other types of packaging, depending on how thin you can
get your ear. Plastic or I mean, you know, glass
is clearly like a lot more material than other than
other stuff. But these cartons are more difficult to recycle
and require specific facilities. Those layers have to be separated.
(09:41):
The process is called hydropulping. Hydropulping hydra pulping.
Speaker 1 (09:50):
Sounds both missing and exciting, right well, what about the nutrits.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Don't don't eat the packaging. This is not Willy Wonka.
All right, I guess I'll note here that there is
ongoing drama, not even debate, but like drama about the
nutritional value of juice, especially for kids, And this is
(10:20):
not that episode. Like, yes, fruit juices, even one hundred
percent fruit juices, are a lot of sugar without any fiber,
But treats are nice. And furthermore, like, if a juice
box is the only way that you can get your
kid to consume a calorie and or a vitamin, go
for it, like you do you Like I'm I'm exhausted,
(10:41):
and I don't have children. I cannot imagine Yell's level
of exhaustion.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
So like, so do it? If that's what's up? Yes, indeed, Uh, well,
we do have some numbers for you, we do. Okay.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
So Tetra Pak, which is uh the original and leading
supplier of this type of packaging. They're huge. They have
some twenty three thousand employees working around the world, and
in twenty sixteen alone, they sold one hundred and eighty
eight billion packages in one hundred and seventy five countries.
(11:19):
I will say this does include non drink carton packages
because they also package everything from like ice cream to
vegetables to pet food.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
But it is a big.
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Industry and it's a pretty steep buy in for smaller
companies to get set up. One of the higher levels
of hygiene, being an aseptic processing plant, will cost over
one hundred million dollars just to get started, and that's
not accounting for any of the costs of keeping that
up and all of the other safety regulatory kind of
(11:53):
issues that you're looking at. And I know that I
talked about recycling a second ago, but the ability to
recycle these drink cartons is growing. As of twenty ten,
there were only about forty programs worldwide that could handle them,
but as of twenty twenty three, they're over two hundred.
(12:13):
That's it's better.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
TetraPak says they invested close to thirty three million dollars
in recycling projects around the world just in twenty twenty two,
and that they're planning on upping that amount as of
this year.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
I've got a world record for.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
You, Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:32):
The fastest time to set up and then topple ten
juice cartons was achieved in the Netherlands in twenty nineteen
at just five point four to one seconds. Dang right, Like,
I'm not exactly sure what that looks like, but it
(12:54):
seems impressive.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
It does. I think there'd have to be a lot
of practice involved, a.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Lot of plan yeah, yeah, eye hand coordination, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
And then you get to tell people yeah, and then
explain it to them, like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2 (13:12):
Another one, as far as I'm aware, the largest number
of drink boxes toppled like dominoes was achieved in Singapore
in twenty twenty one, when a secondary school toppled eight
hundred Marigold brand juice boxes.
Speaker 1 (13:33):
And then I'm guessing they drank them.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
They seemed unharmed. So yeah, it was in a cute
little like heart shape. It was nice, it was full yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
And speaking of.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Awe, another human interest number for you, there's an organization
in Houston called Kids Meals that works to provide simple,
packed lunches to preschoolers during the summer when school is
out and you know, kids don't have access to a
school lunch program, And they host a Summer Juice Box
Challenge every year to collect some of the seven hundred
(14:05):
and thirty thousand juice boxes that they give out every summer.
Like teams sign up, there is hypothetically friendly trash talking
folks delivered their donations in creative ways, like on horseback
or with choreographed dances.
Speaker 1 (14:23):
That's the whole thing that is cute. Yeah, okay, Well,
if anybody's participated in that, please let us know. Oh yeah, huh, yes,
But we do have quite the history for you.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
Oh we do, and we are going to get into
that as soon as we get back from a quick
break forward from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
And we're back thik you sponsor, Yes, thank you. So,
as you've kind of mentioned throughout already, Lauren, the history
of the juice box, of our modern day juice box,
largely comes from the increase in concerned people had around
cleanliness and sanitary food products. Yes, and the juice box
(15:09):
was an innovation around just that, but a lot of
it is rooted in the long battle to make drinking
milk safer. Oh. People were so concerned about this, and
rightfully so, because if you remember from our other episodes
like expiration dates, prior to widespread refrigeration, milk was a
very tricky product to keep safe and bad milk could
(15:33):
cause some pretty serious consequences when it was consumed, especially
in babies. So yes, yeah, h And for a long time,
when we were kind of entering the industrial era, consumers
were typically in charge of cleaning and filling their metal
milk containers. I think a lot of us have seen
that in some of our media. The US dairy industry
(15:56):
offered glass milk jars that they would clean them, which
led to some local monopolies over milk markets thanks to
the collection system, because basically they were the only ones
who were going to clean these jars, so you're stuck
with them.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
And if they're the only ones delivering and backing up
the bottles, then yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:18):
So paper packaged milk, which did not rely on this
collection system, could really change the whole game because then
you wouldn't be relying on the distributors, and distributors could
sell these paper products much farther out than dairies that
relied on collecting these glass bottles.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah, and I was reading I was reading up on
this and as I did, I have to tell you, guys,
it introduced me to just an absolute nightmare phrase. Loose milk,
oh no like as opposed to packaged milk. You have
loose milk.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
It feels like it. There's a number of phrases they
could have gone with instead of that, but they went
with loose milk. And here we are anyway.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Yeah, that's that's on my new list, my newly collected
list of just completely weird gross phrases.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Oh I can't wait to see the rest of his list.
Nightmare fuel exactly what I need?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
Okay, anyway, anyway, yes, okay. So we have this concern
about being cleanly in what we choose to consume. We
have the use glass slash metal containers for getting milk,
and then we have people who are trying to find
a different way, these paper packaged ways to offer milk.
(17:52):
All right, so let us start with GW. Maxwell, an
American inventor who came up with the paper milk. It
was generally shaped like a drinking glass and it had
this paper lid that was clamped down to close it.
I think most of us have probably seen something like
that too. John Van Warmer patented something similar called the
Pure pack in nineteen fifteen. It was a paper milk
(18:16):
bottle that was called the paper bottle.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Okay, but also, as you were kind of mentioning Lauren.
It gives us a bit of a headache now, but
at the time, the fact that you used this product
and then tossed it away instead of reusing it was
seen as a plus in terms of cleanliness, and that's
why they called it puerback. The legend goes that Van
Warmer was inspired to come up with this idea after
(18:40):
dropping a bottle of milk, and I imagine the most
infomercial like there's gotta be a better way.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Oh yeah, Oh, And I will say that this issue
of tossing something instead of reusing it was a really
major marketing factor through the mid century. In a previous
previous job lifetime, I was going through some of the
archives of Dixie Cup commercials and like it was a
(19:11):
big selling point, like like you can just throw it away,
and right these days were like oh oh no, probably not,
but right time is seen as very modern.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
Yeah, it was very modern. And also you know, if
you don't if you're not thinking about the environmental aspect,
it's nice you don't have to wash it.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, still a selling point, Still.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
A selling point. Another piece of this whole story has
to do with self serve grocery stores. And okay, so
to our modern ears, at least to my modern ears,
this sounds a bit odd, but at one time, grocery
stores required employees to package up the shoppers groceries like
you'd give them a list and they would go gather everything.
(19:54):
And it was a grocery store chain that some of
you might have heard of, Higgly Wiggily that often gets
the credit for introducing self service shopping to the US,
and thanks in part to this idea, Pickli Wiggily was
pretty profitable right away. Here's a note about it from
a trade publication at the time. The self service system
(20:16):
cut three hundred dollars per month from expenses and showed
a gain of eighty thousand dollars in sales. WHOA, yeah,
pretty big deal. Huh.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
That's okay, that's a separate episode.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
But cool.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Continue.
Speaker 1 (20:31):
Yeah, I know, I know. As successful as it was, though,
the system was still pretty limited to the US. In
the nineteen twenties, that changed with this Swedish businessman named
Reuben Rousing. He had never seen a self served grocery
store before, but when he was studying at Columbia University,
he saw one, and he was like this is amazing,
(20:54):
and also packaging is about to become a way bigger deal.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Oh sure, yeah, yeah, again, you don't have all that
loose milk floating around, so you're gonna need You're gonna
need some prepackaged goods. Yeah, you can't just throw loose
milk randomly into a conversation, Lauren. Sorry, I wasn't anticipating it, Okay.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Well. Rousing returned to Sweden after his schooling in the US,
and he spent ten years working for a printing company
before he got enough leverage to launch his own packaging business,
so this has really been in the back of his mind.
At first, they mostly packaged things like sugar other dry goods,
but by about World War Two they were focusing on
(21:42):
packages for liquids and they mainly used paperboard to do that.
This eventually led Rousing to the Tetra pack. According to
the company, he got the idea after watching his wife
make sausages. I love how they don't expand upon it anymore.
I have imagination and I can kind of figure it out,
but they don't really go into any more depth, just.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Like, oh, I guess it's like casing.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Yeah, like quid and sausages like filling a casing.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Yeah, that's that's what I assume, but they really didn't
explain and cool, okay, we'll go with it. Another inventor
at the company, though, was the one that really made
this packaging happen. His name was Eric Wallenberg. After some experimentation,
(22:35):
the package was sealed with only three twists and now
this packaging and doing it that way saved some money
on the manufacturing side, but it did result in a
unique shaped product. As the name suggest, it was a
tetrahedron or a four sided triangle pyramid.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Yeah yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
If you if you're not quite sure what we're talking about,
if you look it up, you'll be like, oh, yeah,
I've seen.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
That pyramid shap Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Despite that, it did have a bunch of positives, mainly that,
when properly used, it kept milk from spoiling and it
didn't even necessarily have to be refrigerated. Soon after the
tetra pack was introduced, Rousing created a subsidiary of his
company named after that product. They did not stop at
the tetra pact, though, they introduced a septic packaging in
(23:25):
nineteen sixty one, Basically, through a bunch of innovations around manufacturing, packaging,
and chemical treatment, they created shelf stable packaging that increased
shelf life without the need for refrigeration.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
And this was really a very big deal. Around the
turn of the twenty first century. The Institute of Food
Technologists would call this and I quote the most significant
food science innovation of the last fifty years.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Wow, And that was when a lot of stuff was
going on. Yeah, right, right h Then came the tetra brick,
which was a more rectangular shape to make it easier
for shipping and storing and shopping. However, Americans are still
pretty wary of getting milk in this product because they
were so accustomed to milk products that needed refrigeration. The
(24:15):
dairies were too, and the cost of changing infrastructures and
mindsets was very daunting. However, not every American owned a refrigerator,
so Tetra pac producers saw some pass to success in
the country. And this mora or less brings us to
the juice part of juice box, right, because the thinking
was that if Americans wouldn't buy milk in this packaging,
(24:38):
maybe they would buy juice. Yeah yeah, and just to
throw us in here. There were a couple of products
being offered around this time. Already the German market offered
a juice based concentrate package and a pouch from Wild
Flavors in nineteen sixty nine, and it was called Capri
(24:59):
Soon s n e okay, yes, and Capri after the
Italian island had the same name. It was pretty successful
in Europe, but it took over ten years before the
product made its way to the US, where it was
sold under the name Caprice's Son Sun.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, a whole whole separate episode.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I look forward to diving into that someday, me too,
And all the nineties commercials, Oh my, watch this.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Part of it.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
Did I have a friend who was in one of
those commercials? Anyways, please let's continue, okay.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
All right. One of the first companies to really capitalize
on the juice box in the US was a company
named Apple and Eve Clever I guess. They started offering
a two hundred millilter tetrabrick aceptic of juice in nineteen
eighty two. It was rectangular and complete with a straw.
(25:53):
Ads for it lauded the fact that it didn't need
refrigeration it could last six months was good for people
on the go, didn't have a tenny or plastic taste,
that a lot of people had associated with some of these,
and that it was economical. A year later, in nineteen
eighty three, Coca Cola subsidiary Minute Made launched their own version.
(26:15):
I See entered the ring. Soon after. They had ads
running nationwide on TV. America's version of tetra Pack, Brickpack,
saw a massive increase in sales, jumping by one hundred
million dollars in nineteen eighty three. Wow. Yeah, yeah. They
had to scramble to meet demand. It was such a
sun jump. Some estimates suggest that in the eighties, juice
(26:38):
boxes accounted for one fifth of the juice market in
the United States.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
This this rise is so wild to me because I like,
I'm a child of the eighties, and so I grew
up with these. I had no idea they did not
exist before I did. Like, that's like, I just assumed
that this was a staple for all school kids forever.
Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yes, I did too. I was shot to have relatively
recent yeah. Yeah, So they found this huge success here
in the US. Finally Tetrapac had done it, but there
was a problem. By the late eighties and early nineties,
environmentalists were sounding the alarm about the waste created by
(27:20):
juice boxes. Tetra pack spokespeople responded to these concerns by
saying it was about safety and there were no frivolous
there's Basically they were saying that there's nothing we could
cut out.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's already streamlined believe us. Yeah, yes, And to be
fair to them, there are arguments to be had about
their packaging saving materials, especially when it comes to providing
a shelf stable product, some of those you mentioned, Lauren,
and they've looked into alternate packaging materials like plant based packaging.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
Sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
Also in response to all of this, in nineteen eighty nine,
a trade association popped up in the US called the
Aseptic Packaging Council, and they have spearheaded industry and marketing
incentives to add nutritional supplements to juice boxes to make
them healthier, and to promote recycling and to tell everyone
(28:15):
far and wide about it.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yes, yes, And just a note here. When Rousing died
in the nineteen eighties, he and his family were incredibly wealthy.
His son was the second wealthiest man in Sweden when
he died in twenty nineteen. Yeah, and there is some
drama here because, as I said earlier, many suggest that
despite Rousing's name on the patent, it really wasn't him
(28:40):
that did a lot of the work.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
All right, okay, Well, a totally separate note. Even with
all of the research and development into cleanliness that's in place,
mishaps can happen. For example, from a twenty eight to
twenty ten, there was a safety investigation in Canada that
(29:05):
led to the destruction of one hundred thousand Dull juice
boxes due to improper handling during distribution that had weakened
the seams and allowed microbial growth.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
Just a good.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Reminder that our food industry requires all points to be
operating with care in order to keep consumers safe. Also,
as with anything, if you ever noticed bloating or leaking
in a packaged good, throw that away. You don't need
that one. Yeah, yeah, not that one.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah. Kind of a related note, I did find some
recent articles about adult juice boxes and why they haven't
seemed to take off. There has been a lott of
tries to get them to take off. The consensus seems
to be it's because we associate them with kids, and
or there are actual laws banning them because kids might
(29:56):
drink them thinking that they are for them. Sure, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Interesting okay, And yes, a research and development is ongoing
as of this ear TetraPak is investing in this advanced
imaging technique to help look at the nanostructure of fiber
materials such as paper, with the idea of optimizing paper
straws for use with their products.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
Yeah, there really is a lot of research growing into
these there there is so much. There is just an
infinite amount that right like, I did not I could
not go into all of it. But I do find
all of this, especially that that psychological angle is super
interesting to me because I think the first time that
(30:46):
I saw like sake packaged in a little juice box,
I got so excited.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
I was like, it's a juice box but for me
me too?
Speaker 2 (30:55):
Yeah, And I don't know, so like right, like it's
a weird nostalgia play, but I could see why some
people and some councils would be not into that being
a thing.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Yeah. Yeah, And I should also say like most of
the examples I saw were alcoholic, but some of them weren't.
I think they were just trying to be like adults.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
You like juice too, Yeah, here's a right, yeah, which
is also interesting because you could still drink a juice
fox quote for kids. It's just sure, right, like you said, interesting,
look at the human psyche.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
I mean I have friends who will like drink a
juice box as a treat.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
I have friends who will like lose their minds if
a certain type of juice box shows up at an event.
Speaker 2 (31:42):
Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I like can't take the sugar
like that's one thing. Like I know that I'm going
to become everybody's problem if I just have like a
shot of sugar like that.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Right, right, Well, listeners, if you've got a favorite, if
you've got nostalgia feelings, yeah, please let us know.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Huh yes, also belatedly drink responsibly. But right, we do
have some listener mail already prepared for you, and we
are going to get into that as soon as we
get back from one more quick break for a word
from our sponsors.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
And we're back. Thank you, sponsored, Yes, thank you, and
we're back with SPO. I feel like all juice box
commercials were like that.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Gods, it was the air of like extreme I don't
know if they're doing that anymore, but that's fair.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
Think they are nineties.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
Yeah, lots of like day glow colors and skate skateboards yep,
maybe some serve boarding anyway, Okay, Jared wrote, as I've
been working my way through a backhock of episodes to
try to catch out to current.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I recently listened to the Kindishes episode. I had a
spark of inspiration and wanted to share my results. I
used Pillsbury Crescent rolldo, some caramelized onions, and instant mashed potatoes.
They turned out tasty, but I don't know how I'm
close to authentic they taste as I've never actually had Kindishes,
but the episode, in my attempt at them, has made
me want to try the real deal.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Ooh yeah, I feel I feel like the I feel
like the dough texture would be a little off, like
like you want something a little bit chewier for like
a for like a kinish dough concept. But that being said,
like anytime and I think I said this in the episode,
but anytime that you put potatoes in dough and then
I eat it, I'm happy about that. Yeah, yeah, I
(33:55):
mean sounds great.
Speaker 1 (33:56):
That sounds delicious. And I think I've said before too,
like I love just give me that crescent roll and
I put stuff in the ashir Yeah too, miraculous, so wonderful.
Oh yeah, okay, all right.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
Now I'm like, but what if I did that every day?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
That would be so good?
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Okay, Nathan wrote first, thanks for reading my email about
Robert Irvine's subtle, probably not intentional racism. And I hope
that I'm getting his name right. I remember us going
through a whole thing before, and I'm tired today. I don't.
I can't, but sure that guy continues. As I said before,
(34:37):
the cooking world is making a turn towards inclusivity, but
it still happens and needs to be called out. Competition
shows can be grading by the machismo of French trained
dudes that think they're better than everyone just because they
had the money to go to the CIA or something.
One that bucks this trend is Guy Fieri's Tournament of Champions.
This show pits the chefs, who are typically the judge
(35:00):
of other shows, against each other in a March Madness
esque bracket challenge. In the four seasons, all the champions
have been women, two of them women of color. In
these shows and my career as a chef, I've seen
that the women are really just better all around. I
think it's the drive to break the glass ceiling and
the need to be so much better than male counterparts
(35:20):
for them to get noticed. This shouldn't be groundbreaking, especially
to you too. But another part I've noticed is when
the people of color cook, they went a lot too
looking specifically at meat Shohan. She's an Indian chef who
got French style training. This combination of flavors and the
technique really do seem to be a winning combination for
(35:40):
the Western dominated competitions that we see here. Next, you
were wanting a recipe for grilled watermelon fatus salad.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Here's a good one.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Make sure your grill is super hot.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
You don't want your watermelon to get squishy by sitting
on there too long. It's kind of like a rare steak.
Just get that mayor reaction on and you're good. Then
make some quinoa and cool it down. Toss the two
together with some mint or basil. Both are good, as
well as the feta or goat cheese. If you want,
squeeze a bit of lemon in there, always being the
acid drizzle it with some balsamic glaze and you're good.
(36:15):
I think next time I'm going to throw some Fresno
chilis in it. I've been on a Fresno chili kick lately.
Next the episode, I'm currently listening to Polenta so good.
My bass polenta is a four to one ratio of
chicken stock to polenta. I use the Golden Pheasant brand
stir while it cooks, but not as much as a risotto.
(36:36):
You can adjust your consistency if you want. From there,
finish it with some butter and cheese. Parmesan is my
go too, but I found a smoked goat Gouda in
my local store recently that's fantastic. In it. Don't forget
the salt and pepper frying it is so good. I
do fontina in it when I fry it. Then I
layer it with arabiata sauce and fresh mozzarella and get
(36:56):
a nice stack of deliciousness. I also like to top
it with a porn shoulder raggu with a balsonic glaze. Last,
but not least, I think I figured out how to
finally do the dreaded GMO episode. A collaboration and what
better show to pair with than behind the Bastards. You
both have connections to the show. Annie, your other co host,
(37:18):
has already been a guest Lauren, you're part of the
union thing with fellow Cool Zone host Mia. And yes,
I saw that Twitter conversation about trist la Chis. Robert
has already done a collaboration when he teamed up with
prop of Hood Politics to do how Iran Contra tied
into the crack epidemic. I think it's time for this
epic team up. It would also work well with the
sugar industry and corn syrup. Probably it would hofta. I
(37:44):
mean not no, but cuel Oh okay, all of that
food sounds so delicious.
Speaker 1 (37:57):
Yes, yes, I just made polinta. Oh that's right. Yeah,
how did it? God? Oh it was so good. It
was so good, and I realized, like how to make it?
I figured how I could fry it? Now, Okay, at
first I couldn't envision it, and now I'm like, okay, no,
I see, but I made it with chicken stock and
(38:20):
parmesan salt, pepper, a bunch of like spices, and then
I had like a mushroom tomato sauce. Oh it was
so good. Wow, I was very impressive. Oh awesome. Oh
I'm so glad. Yeah, yes, yes, but these are good tips,
so I'm I have a whole bag of it now,
so I mean yes. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Also, that that guy Fieri tournament show sounds delightful.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
I'm in the we.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
Actually we didn't like meet him, but we got to
see him up close in action when we were in
New Orleans with super producer Della and a long long,
long time ago, and he was so kind and genuine
and he was like really making an effort to talk
to all of the cooks who came up to him,
like the young up and coming cooks are just they're
(39:13):
just how hopeful home cooks and like really like shake
all of their hands and like make time for them.
And it like it made me so happy. Like I
know that being sincere about a guy who's that sincere
is like kind of like quote unquote cringe, but I
think I think it's adorable. I'm like heck, yeah, yeah, yeah, happy, Yeah,
(39:35):
it was nice.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, And these are great insights because I think when
we talked about that, I said I didn't know much
about kind of this world of uh food television and
competition and stuff. Like that, So always appreciate from people
who do know.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Yeah and hoofta yeah again right like that. Yeah, the
GMO the GMO episode. Who, Yeah, it's gonna be great.
Maybe maybe a collaboration.
Speaker 1 (40:08):
Is an order. Maybe maybe I mean we're gonna need
the help. Absolutely, yes, yes, yes, yes, and thank you
for the water villain recipe. That sounds great. Yeah, summer
is on the way, so it's time time. Yes. Well,
(40:31):
thanks to both of those listeners for writing in. If
you would like to write to us, you can our
emails hello at savorpod dot com.
Speaker 3 (40:38):
We are also on social media.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
You can find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at
saver pod, and we do hope to hear from you.
Save is production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from my
Heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
To your favorite shows.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Thanks it's always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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