January 4, 2020 • 30 mins
These leafy greens -- another traditional New Year’s food in the American South – have been sustaining humans pretty much ever since humans existed. Anney and Lauren explore the history and culture of collard greens.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio and Stuff Media.
I'm and and I'm Lorn Vogelbaum. And today we're talking
about collared greens. Uh huh, another part of the traditional
Southern New Year's Day meal, which I thought was going
to be kind of boring, kind of like turnip greens,
which we did recently, But no, no, very different, actually different. Yeah,
(00:28):
an entirely different cultural thing, and also very different from kale,
even though they're very close to they know, constantly surprised
in this world. So in this meal, collared greens represent
folding green money, and you're meant to eat them to
bring you all that money in the coming New year. Right, yeah, yeah,
(00:49):
you eat them on New Year's Day with your black
eyed peas, probably some kind of pork product mixed in
their corn bread. Yes, this year I made soup. Oh yeah,
I made a black eyed pea, collar green and sausage soup.
And it's delicious, very spicy. Oh that sounds great. It
is it is. And as I've said before, I love
(01:10):
colored greens and also my family, the men prefer collared
greens to turnip greens, less bitter, according to them, And
we ate collar greens and turnips all the time when
I was growing up, usually boiled with hamhok, salt, pepper,
and a teeny bit of sugar and hot sauce. Oh yeah,
the hot sauce. Yes. And my dad used to eat
he'd have a cup and he'd have in this cup buttermilk,
(01:32):
collar greens, corn bread and hot pepper sauce. And I
thought it was the grossest thing when I was a kid.
At did I try it? I was like, Okay, this
is weird, but I get it. Huh yeah, okay, sure. Yeah.
It's like a weird bowl of savory cereal pretty much.
You collared in it. You dip the corn bread at first,
but then eventually it kind of just crumbles. Yeah, okay, yeah,
(01:55):
so that's an Evolver breakfast soup. It's not like ambrosia.
I guess my dad was big on breakfast soups now
anything about it. And I actually got out. I just
got off of a collar green kick. I was eating
them all the time. Yeah, isn't this like their season.
I'm getting out of my colored green time right as
(02:16):
they come into their primetime. Well, I mean, you know,
it's it's the entire winter season so you know, late
fall is also collared green time. I guess. I guess
you're right. I guess you're right. Here in the South
all the time is collared green time? True? What are you?
What are your thoughts on colored greens? I don't think
that I had greens of any kind, let alone collars
(02:39):
cooked in like the Southern way until I had been
in Atlanta for a few years, so this is like
relatively recent for me. Yeah. I really like them though now,
and I really like them with a good kick of
vinegar in the cooking liquid, because yeah, because I want
them to be a little bit, just a little bit puckery. Yes,
and I had, i'd had green beans actually cooked similarly.
(03:00):
My grandmother on my mother's side would make green beans
cooked with with some kind of hamhock situation and no
hot sauce. Definitely, yeah, definitely know so those are her things.
Oh I thought that was the other grandmother, but both
neither neither side of my family was into spicy food.
I am some kind of aberration nice but yeah, yeah,
(03:23):
but again, yes, obviously the green beans would be a
different kind of texture situation than a collared so yes,
I do. I was thinking another day that last year
I made that those egg rolls for our DD session.
Those were so good color. Yeah, they were so good.
I shouldn't. Yeah, you should were delicious. You should remake
them for their D and D games so I can
eat them. Maybe I will, Maybe I will. But in
(03:46):
the meantime, let's get to our question. Collared greens. What
are they? Well? Collared greens are a type of leafy
green in the wide wide specie Brasca alicia that includes
everything from cabbage and brussels to broccoli and cole robbie,
and specifically, collars are Brasca alaricia variety asfala, which is
(04:13):
itself a less wide group of cultivars of leafy greens
that also includes kale so Acefala means without a head,
which indicates not some creepy ghost story in kale and
collards past, but rather that the leaves of these cultivars
don't form a central bunch or head, the way that
say cabbages form heads without a head. I love it.
(04:35):
I know. The name that collared is a corruption of
the Anglo Saxon coal warts, frequently shortened to coals, meaning
cabbage plants. Yeah, yeah, all the same kind of family there,
and collards do, in fact look sort of like someone
decapitated a cabbage plant, where cabbages have these these thick
basal leaves that the head grows up from the center
(04:56):
of collards just don't have that head. They only have
the thick, broad, smooth lower leaves. And those leaves can
get big, up to like two feet long by a
foot and a half wide, that's about zero point six
meters by a half a meter. And yeah, the leaves
are more fleshy than kale and less roughly like a
like a thick spinach, a thick spinach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(05:20):
Collards and all those other plants in the Braska genus
are part of the brassicassier family, or the mustard family,
which tend to produce bitter and or punging compounds to
discourage herbivores and other pests from destroying their foliage. Colors
are pretty mild, though, I would say probably the mildest
of the bunch. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, Oh, and yeah,
(05:42):
bunch pun intended after that. They taste a vegetable and
earthy and a little bitter and maybe a little bit
sweet in there too. For me, they're more of a
texture than a taste component in most dishes, like a
vehicle for smoky hamhock and bright vinegar pepper sauce. You
(06:02):
can't eat them raw. When they're raw, they're they're yeah, yeah,
like a like a thicker spinach with a big crunchy
stems to support those broad leaves. And when cooked they
get a soft and sort of slippy and tender. Yeah.
They're super easy to grow. You can start harvesting the
largest outer leaves about a month after planting, like from
seed to you have collared leaves who in about a month. Yeah,
(06:26):
and they will just keep going as long as they've
got sunlight and water. They'll tolerate temperatures upward of eighty
degrees fahrenheit that's about twenty seven celsius, and all the
way down to twenty fahrenheit, which is about negative seven celsius.
So they are much better suited to a wide range
of climates than most other stuff in Nebraska family or
a genus, I should say, but yeah, this is why
(06:48):
that that cold end of the range is why they're
a good winter vegetable in temperate zones and possibly explains
why they're a traditional New Year's food in the American South. Also,
cold weather makes col's sweeter, as as the plants will
convert storage starches into sugars when the weather gets cold.
It's sort of like a like a natural anti freeze
(07:08):
to keep everything in circulation. Yeah, So if you want
to sweeten up collars before you cook them, especially if
you're cooking them from a home garden situation, to stick
them in the fridge for a couple of days beforehand.
Let them, Let them do that process. Cool. My mom
used to I thought that was the coolest thing when
I was a kid, because she would before we'd eat them,
she'd be like, these are gonna be really sweet is
a cold winter. I was like, oooo cool. And they're
(07:34):
pretty good for you, oh gosh. Yeah, by themselves, they're great,
like a like a cup of collards has as much
calcium as five sixth of a cup of milk, as
much vitamin A as half of a carrot, as much
vitamin C as half of an orange, so much vitamin K. Yeah,
good punches of fiber and protein in there. They will
fill you up, and when combined with other sources of
(07:55):
fat and protein, they will really help keep you going.
Yeah mm hmmmm. Though when you boil or simmer collars
or any vegetable really in water or broth or whatever.
You're cooking out a bunch of their nutrients into the liquid.
So don't let that good stuff go to waste if
you don't want to eat it, like as part of
(08:17):
the collareds dish. If you don't want to like drink
it or anything, you can save it to add to
soups or sauces or yeah, just stop it up with
corn bread. Yep, my dad did that too. Oh yeah, yes,
and collars are eaten all over the world. Oh yeah.
East Africa has a dish a lot like Southern collars,
often incorporating chopter ground meat, tomatoes, garlic and or onion spices,
(08:37):
a little bit of lemon juice, cooking the whole pot
down with water or broth. It's sometimes called sukuma wiki,
which apparently translates to push or stretch the week. Ah.
There's the Portuguese called del verde, a green soup frequently
made with collared saltate and brazil, often with garlic in
the Caribbean. In the South, Yeah, they are frequently boiled
(08:57):
down with hamhock over a long period of time. A
large quantity of greens is sometimes called a meso greens.
Oh I love that. Yeah, yeah, true, yeah, you can.
You can serve the cooking liquid and greens together or
separate them and serve the liquid sometimes called pot liquor,
in a soup or as a separate soup. And this
is also a traditional African thing. Yes, I believe I heard.
(09:20):
I know someone who used to drink this and she
would say clean me out. That stuck with me as
a kid as well, because I wasn't quite sure what
it means it Now I know, Now you know, and
you're like, well, okay, good advice. Thanks, Yes, yes, and yes.
They are often the greens during this traditional Southern New
(09:40):
Year's meal, representing all that money, money, money, and they
are a cultural thing in the South. If you've never
lived here, you probably don't have a conception of exactly
how much like I don't know, like like like love
and pride people have for this humble dish. Absolutely. For instance, Charlotte,
(10:02):
North Carolina, has a collared green museum, the LATTEBA Life
and Times in Black American History Colored Museum. Savannah and
Atlanta have collared green festivals, as does Aiden, North Carolina.
Featuring a collared green eating contest. I've not heard of this,
and I'm already horrified. It lasts for thirty minutes. Oh no,
(10:25):
what yes, with a series of one pound servings of
collars delivered by the collared queens. Contestants have to not
pug for five minutes after the contest is over to
not be disqualified. Apparently a lot of people do. And
their record is eight and a quarter pounds of college
Oh my god, my god, I wonder what's the highest
(10:48):
weight of like things that people consume and competitive eating contests,
Like eight and a half pounds sounds like a lot.
It is, it is. I believe the previous record holder
his his record was like four pounds and it had
been standing for twenty years or something. So he came
back to town the next year to be a judge
(11:08):
and make sure there's no cheating, because he didn't believe
that his record had been toppled and by that much.
And sure enough, the guy the next year who won,
he didn't even get close. Oh wow, Oh, I'm not
accusing anybody of g I don't know. I don't know.
And in twenty eleven, South Carolina's legislature voted collars the
(11:29):
official state vegetable. In some parts of the South, it's
common for folks to have a collared patch and for
colored pots to be given as a wedding gift. Yeah. Absolutely,
oh oh, I would love a colored pot, right. And
they've featured in a lot of songs called greens have.
In the late nineteen forties, Georgia fiddler Warren Smith composed
(11:50):
Rabbit under a collared leaf that went, it's collared greens.
It's collared greens. First thing you do, you better put
him in a pot. Next thing you do, you better
eat him while it's hot. It's collared greens. But apparently
was a big elementary school, like kids sing a long song. Yeah.
They featured in poems. There was a collared poetry contest
in nineteen eighty four, the brainchild of two North Carolina
(12:11):
English professors. They got five hundred submissions from all over
the country and even some from Europe. They published one
hundred and twenty seven of the poems in a book
called Leaves of Green, and in twenty ten, R and
B singer Fantasia Burno released the song Collared Greens and
Cornbread and her Grammy nominated album back to me. One
of the main lines, went even got the nerve to say,
(12:32):
you're better than my mama's collared greens and cornbread. Oh yeah.
There's plays books a Stroke of good Fortune by Flannery
O'Connor nineteen forty nine, for example, controversies which we'll talk
about a little bit. You name it colld greens. It's
been in the mix, beloved by Elvis who ate them
with corn bread and buttermilk. Oh yeah, Elvis and your
(12:54):
dad see that. My dad would love to be compared
to Elvis. And then, according to John T. Edge of
the Southern Food Ways Alliance in the New Encyclopedia of
Southern Culture, Volume seven, Collared's quote probably more than any
other food delineate the boundaries of the Mason Dixon line.
(13:15):
And me and super producer Dylan saw him speak in Birmingham.
Oh that trip that I missed a year back. Yeah, yeah,
about a year ago. Yeah. And there was a cocktail
at this event that came with a temporary tattoo of
this guy's face, and I still have it, and I'm
waiting for the opportune moment. Oh, what are you going
(13:36):
to put it right on your face? So that you
can have a face on your face. Oh yeah, absolutely,
you're like, how else would I do it? I mean
I didn't even consider doing anything else. Oh but when when?
Clearly the next Southern Food Ways Alliance. Yes, you're right,
next time I go to one of their events. Yeah,
(13:57):
all right, that's solved. We need to talk about some
we do, but first we need to take a quick
break for a word from our sponsor. And we're back.
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
colored history, going all the way back to prehistoric time. Ah,
(14:22):
they probably originated in the Mediterranean, although they descended from
ancient wild Asian cabbages that grew before recorded history. Oh yeah,
Collards and kale were probably among the first plants cultivated period.
But they were probably the first brassicas specifically that humans cultivated,
(14:42):
and probably because they are so easy to grow. You
don't have to messily, it's just leaves. You just pick them. Yeah,
you don't have to wait for him to grow into
a specific shape. You don't have to tend to them
to do that. They just do it. Yeah, that's very nice.
It is. Oh, it's so polite. Right as early as
two thousand years ago, ancient Greeks and Romans grew collars
(15:03):
in their gardens along with koe, and they did not
differentiate between the two, which makes the research fun. It's
just they were trying to mess with us. They knew,
they knew we were coming. These two podcasters in the
future will make life difficult for them specifically. Well, good job,
good show, We see you, Alkus. That's right, that's right.
(15:26):
The Roman Empire spread collars throughout Europe. They were in
Britain by fourth century VC. And I believe we did
talk about this in our Kale episode because again, yeah,
they did not differentiate, so hard to say. Callers eventually
reached Africa, where the climate allowed for year round availability
of some type of green. By the time of slavery,
thirty to sixty greens were eaten in West and Central Africa.
(15:49):
They were frequently made into a sauce and served with rice.
Collars were grown in the first slave forts established by
the Portuguese. Even though cabbage and turnips had migrated south
from Europe by then, they weren't as hardy as kale
and collers. Collared seeds spread throughout the continent, and just
like the black eyed pea, collards arrived to the Americas
as part of the slave trade in the early sixteen hundreds.
(16:11):
Collared greens were one of a handful of crops and
slave people were allowed to grow for themselves. Also, just
like the black eyed pea, there are stories that immigrants
from Europe bought them with them as well, but most
of them, even people at the time, I don't know,
there was an odd vibe of it was all anecdote.
It was kind of like a cute tale to tell
or something like somebody bought the seeds from Europe and
planted them in their garden. I'm sure it probably happened,
(16:33):
but oh yeah, I mean it's a food. People probably
ate it. But for the most part, from yes, from
most of the history, it's like, yeah, no, these came
over with the slave trade. Right from the book Collars
a Southern Tradition from Seeds to Table, written by John T.
Morgan and Edward H. Davis, quote callers are aligned to
(16:54):
the very core historical facts of the American South. In
the confluence of African and British folk ways, collared seed
was deliberately transported from the gardens of ordinary British people.
Ah on the other hand Africans who were not allowed
to carry a thing when transferred to this country nonetheless
broad an asset just as essential their culinary knowledge, which
included an understanding of and preference for dark, leafy greens.
(17:17):
That knowledge in the food tradition among blacks and whites alike,
no doubt saved many Southerners from starvation. Southerners black and
white have potentially sustained a very wise cultural trait in
their preference for this food in spite of considerable derision
from outsiders and even some insiders. Yeah, and uh, that
pride that I was talking about earlier in this dish
(17:39):
is kind of a recent come upance or it's like,
is that the right word. I'm yea of just going like, oh, yeah, no,
this food is really good and it's really nourishing, and
you know, like I don't know all of the all
of the issues that we wrap up in both race
and class in this country and all others. Really, collars
(18:00):
are kind of at the base of that, because they
are this very earthy kind of dish. Yeah, and I've
gone back to my dad. My dad grew very, very,
very poor, and he was embarrassed and shamed of a
lot of the foods the epe. Oh no, but I'm
sure that they were delicious. They were, And I couldn't
figure it out as a kid, because I just didn't
understand it and they were all good, like I didn't.
(18:22):
Why are we ashamed of this thing that tastes really good?
But he wouldn't if I had friends over, he would
not like wanted to cook anything like that, which, yes,
kind of sad because it is such a wonderful, delicious thing. Yeah,
but yeah, yeah, historically important as well. Absolutely. According to
one historical account, when General Sherman came marching into the
(18:44):
South during the Civil War, the Confederate governor of Georgia,
Joseph Brown, deserted the capital, taking with him quote only
his cow and a load of collars. Huh, you know, okay.
And the novel Gone with the Wind Scarlet daydreams about
the days and foods before the war, including quote collards
swimming richly in pot liquor iridescent with grease. Whoo, Which
(19:08):
is funny because, as we said in our Turnip episode,
those represent the poor and starving. In that book, when
she says her famous line, as God is my witness,
I'll never go hungry again, but I think it probably
has to do with the cooking. Also a little bit
of both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accounts from Confederate soldiers during
the Civil War indicate that collards were sometimes in their rations.
(19:29):
Post emancipation, James Patterson Green Out of North Carolina wrote
to the inhabitants of the country districts of the South,
the collard is very great blessing because when boiled in
a pot with a piece of fat meat and balls
of cornal dough having the size and appearance of ordinary
white turnips called dumplings, it makes palatable a diet which
would otherwise be all but intolerable. So much grace has
(19:52):
have been classes have been folded, all of this. Really,
it's delicious. Just eat it. Gosh, humans, get it all together.
I've never cooked cornbread dumplings in a pot of greens,
and I need to go do that immediately. I haven't
done it either, but I imagine it's delicious. Yeah. Collars
(20:13):
were still largely associated with the poor at this time.
A professor from Vanderbilt wrote in eighteen eighty three that
poor Southerners and black people knew no word better than collars. Aw. Yeah, well, uh, huh, okay, geez.
I know. In nineteen thirty four, Louisiana State University's Agriculture
Experiment Stations published a pamphlet that delved into the color
(20:34):
variety Louisiana Suite in their attempts to make it more viable.
So this is sort of like a ghost story in
colored greens past. Oh yeah, Like people aren't even sure
if it was real. Others claim, oh, it definitely was real,
and I agree it, and that the Louisiana sweet exactly,
it's just this variety. Apparently they did not succeed this,
(20:57):
this agricultural experiment station, although it's paw that there are
seed savers out there that kept it going. Oh yeah, okay,
mm hmm. It was around this time that some also
kind of racist and classist research was going into, like
why are all of these Southern farmers and poor people
(21:17):
so nutritionally well kept? And then all of a sudden,
researchers were like, could it be the colludes that they're eating? Well,
they have them outside on the doorstep and they just
eat them from their gardens, and so yeah, it was
a big mystery and I'm not sure why, but I
you know, Homechan nutritional science were both fields that were
(21:38):
developing at this point in time. And so I guess
people can be forgiven for having been ignorant. Yes, I
suppose so. And we did want to say there is
a lot of racism involved in this history, and some
of it we just did not want to repeat because
(21:59):
there were there's just looks. Yeah, it's one of those
really frustrating things that, you know, people who think that
they're better than another group of people for whatever reason,
you know, who are part of the institution that kept
those people from eating things other than collars, are like,
(22:20):
oh man, look at those people eat collars. It's like,
hmm yeah, just a lot of nastiness. Yeah, definitely, And
it's that kind of in a weird way, segues into
this next thing I want to talk about. Oh gosh, right,
I had no way. I actually no, I did know
this happened, but like in the very back of my mind.
So collared green controversy jumping all the way up to
(22:42):
twenty sixteen, Whole Foods caused a media fire storm and
a whole conversation around appropriation after they tweeted if you're
not cooking with these greens, you need to be how
to cook collars with a link to a recipe that
showcase a picture of collars topped with peanuts. Okay, okay.
(23:02):
CNN reported Whole Foods gets in hot water with black Twitter.
The author of this article, Carl Readi, wrote, Whole Food's
Twitter feed was quickly flooded with lots of memes and
plenty of side eye. I was annoyed too, because, like
other African Americans, I'm tired of people discovering things that
have been part of black culture for hundreds of years.
This was one of many many takedowns on I guess
(23:27):
not really the recipe, the tweet in the company's apparent
cluelessness and lack of cultural sensitivity. Okay, yes, but all right.
It seems the recipe they featured was inspired by Sean
Brock salted collar greens with roasted peanuts, which was featured
in Food and Wine, and or the Savannah peanut collared
(23:49):
greens recipe in Joe Dadney's book The Food, Folklore and
Art of Low Country Cooking. So legitimate sources, yes, of
like for a good recipe, Yeah, and there is a
handful of other sources and then a bunch of people
looking into it was enough where people were writing about
this controversy other than just there's a controversy. Connor Fredersdorff
(24:12):
over at The Atlantic wrote a great piece about this
whole thing, and it's surprisingly complex and nuanced. As someone
who just researched cancel culture for another show, Oh, this
is a fascinating example of how it is not black
and white. So the pairing of color greens and peanuts
is fairly common in Central and Southern Africa, somewhat hilariously,
(24:37):
although I'm I'm sure not so for the Whole food
social media manager. Their recipe did not even include peanuts.
It was just a picture that they used. Yes, But anyway,
a lot of the articles written about it were incorrect,
these kind of media blowing it up out of proportion,
and they were presented quite confidently as fact. And yeah,
(24:59):
it was really a case of not representing a situation
and accurately. Although I wouldn't go as far as say
Whole Foods is necessarily innocent, it's just complex. Yeah. Yeah,
we should all probably, I mean, especially if we are
a major corporation, be careful of what we post on Twitter. Yeah,
(25:21):
for sure, and especially especially where delicate manners of these
food ways that are yeah, so wrapped up in so
many people's histories and in so much of this weirdness
and negativity that we've been talking about this whole episode
exactly because like you said, we've had this long history
(25:42):
of sort of shaming people for eating foods that were
really the only things they could eat. And now whole foods,
which I mean it is called whole paycheck for a reason. Yeah,
it's like, hey, a new thing we found. I get it. Like,
I'm not saying they were in the right at all,
it's just it's it's it's more complicated than absolutely. Yeah.
(26:05):
And there's so many great articles out there to read
more about it if you would like to, because I
do think it was it was worth a read. Oh
well good, Yeah, absolutely, huh. And I guess that's what
we have to say about college greens. Who knew we
were going to end on a whole food's media tweet controversy.
(26:25):
You never again, you just never know where it's going
to go. You don't, You don't. That's the best weird
part about our jobs. It is true, it is true,
But we also like the best The other best weird
part we like is listener mail, which we have some
we do, but first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
(26:54):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listener mail.
Beeer wrote, upon hearing your tale of your family experiences
with the breakfast fruit soup version of Ambrosia, it brought
to mind a fruit soup I encountered a couple of
decades ago while I'm post Soviet hungry. It's called headage
(27:16):
madge Levish, meaning literally cold sour cherry soup, with its
main components being, of course sour cherries and the juice
along with water, sugar, cinnamon. Sometimes I'm an extract, and
usually a splash of a fairly strong red wine like
a Gavnae or maybe Merlow. It's then finished with either cream,
whipped cream or sour cream, but definitely not Mannis. I
(27:37):
can tell you sipping an icy bowl of this after
an afternoon of clearing high weeds for a humanitarian project
and the humid Hungarian summer countryside was the height of bliss.
There are a number of variations on it, with of
course many recipes online, but I don't think anywhere near
as many as there are with ambrosia, I highly recommend it.
That sounds amazing. Oh yeah, and trying to figure out
(27:59):
this pronunciation, which I'm still not sure if we have.
I apologies to get a solid truck. We did, we did,
but yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, that looks good.
I want to eat that right now. Sounds amazing. Oh
oh yeah, Katie wrote, I just want to give you
some loves and some thanks. I recently got a new
job at a small bean to bar chocolate maker in town.
(28:21):
I was nervous, so I listened to your podcast about
chocolate right before the interview, and I think it really
helped me out. I could talk a little more about
the process of chocolate making, but I still have a
lot to learn. The shop is one of about forty
bean to bar makers in the US and has the
largest selection of single origin bars. I eat bars made
from beans from just one place. All the beans are
(28:41):
ethically sourced. It's been a fantastic learning experience. Chocolate is
so complex, and even if the chocolate comes from the
same country, depending on where it grew, it will taste
wildly different from each other. I also have to say,
as a D and D player for five years and
a D and D podcaster. I love hearing you talk
about D and D. You too, soundly. You have a
great group to play with and loads of good food
(29:03):
and fun. We do, we do, Oh, it's true. And
also congrats on your job. Yeah, oh gosh, absolutely congratulations
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(29:45):
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Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
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that lots more good things are coming your way.
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor production of iHeartRadio and Stuff Media.
I'm and and I'm Lorn Vogelbaum. And today we're talking
about collared greens. Uh huh, another part of the traditional
Southern New Year's Day meal, which I thought was going
to be kind of boring, kind of like turnip greens,
which we did recently, But no, no, very different, actually different. Yeah,
(00:28):
an entirely different cultural thing, and also very different from kale,
even though they're very close to they know, constantly surprised
in this world. So in this meal, collared greens represent
folding green money, and you're meant to eat them to
bring you all that money in the coming New year. Right, yeah, yeah,
(00:49):
you eat them on New Year's Day with your black
eyed peas, probably some kind of pork product mixed in
their corn bread. Yes, this year I made soup. Oh yeah,
I made a black eyed pea, collar green and sausage soup.
And it's delicious, very spicy. Oh that sounds great. It
is it is. And as I've said before, I love
(01:10):
colored greens and also my family, the men prefer collared
greens to turnip greens, less bitter, according to them, And
we ate collar greens and turnips all the time when
I was growing up, usually boiled with hamhok, salt, pepper,
and a teeny bit of sugar and hot sauce. Oh yeah,
the hot sauce. Yes. And my dad used to eat
he'd have a cup and he'd have in this cup buttermilk,
(01:32):
collar greens, corn bread and hot pepper sauce. And I
thought it was the grossest thing when I was a kid.
At did I try it? I was like, Okay, this
is weird, but I get it. Huh yeah, okay, sure. Yeah.
It's like a weird bowl of savory cereal pretty much.
You collared in it. You dip the corn bread at first,
but then eventually it kind of just crumbles. Yeah, okay, yeah,
(01:55):
so that's an Evolver breakfast soup. It's not like ambrosia.
I guess my dad was big on breakfast soups now
anything about it. And I actually got out. I just
got off of a collar green kick. I was eating
them all the time. Yeah, isn't this like their season.
I'm getting out of my colored green time right as
(02:16):
they come into their primetime. Well, I mean, you know,
it's it's the entire winter season so you know, late
fall is also collared green time. I guess. I guess
you're right. I guess you're right. Here in the South
all the time is collared green time? True? What are you?
What are your thoughts on colored greens? I don't think
that I had greens of any kind, let alone collars
(02:39):
cooked in like the Southern way until I had been
in Atlanta for a few years, so this is like
relatively recent for me. Yeah. I really like them though now,
and I really like them with a good kick of
vinegar in the cooking liquid, because yeah, because I want
them to be a little bit, just a little bit puckery. Yes,
and I had, i'd had green beans actually cooked similarly.
(03:00):
My grandmother on my mother's side would make green beans
cooked with with some kind of hamhock situation and no
hot sauce. Definitely, yeah, definitely know so those are her things.
Oh I thought that was the other grandmother, but both
neither neither side of my family was into spicy food.
I am some kind of aberration nice but yeah, yeah,
(03:23):
but again, yes, obviously the green beans would be a
different kind of texture situation than a collared so yes,
I do. I was thinking another day that last year
I made that those egg rolls for our DD session.
Those were so good color. Yeah, they were so good.
I shouldn't. Yeah, you should were delicious. You should remake
them for their D and D games so I can
eat them. Maybe I will, Maybe I will. But in
(03:46):
the meantime, let's get to our question. Collared greens. What
are they? Well? Collared greens are a type of leafy
green in the wide wide specie Brasca alicia that includes
everything from cabbage and brussels to broccoli and cole robbie,
and specifically, collars are Brasca alaricia variety asfala, which is
(04:13):
itself a less wide group of cultivars of leafy greens
that also includes kale so Acefala means without a head,
which indicates not some creepy ghost story in kale and
collards past, but rather that the leaves of these cultivars
don't form a central bunch or head, the way that
say cabbages form heads without a head. I love it.
(04:35):
I know. The name that collared is a corruption of
the Anglo Saxon coal warts, frequently shortened to coals, meaning
cabbage plants. Yeah, yeah, all the same kind of family there,
and collards do, in fact look sort of like someone
decapitated a cabbage plant, where cabbages have these these thick
basal leaves that the head grows up from the center
(04:56):
of collards just don't have that head. They only have
the thick, broad, smooth lower leaves. And those leaves can
get big, up to like two feet long by a
foot and a half wide, that's about zero point six
meters by a half a meter. And yeah, the leaves
are more fleshy than kale and less roughly like a
like a thick spinach, a thick spinach. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
(05:20):
Collards and all those other plants in the Braska genus
are part of the brassicassier family, or the mustard family,
which tend to produce bitter and or punging compounds to
discourage herbivores and other pests from destroying their foliage. Colors
are pretty mild, though, I would say probably the mildest
of the bunch. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, Oh, and yeah,
(05:42):
bunch pun intended after that. They taste a vegetable and
earthy and a little bitter and maybe a little bit
sweet in there too. For me, they're more of a
texture than a taste component in most dishes, like a
vehicle for smoky hamhock and bright vinegar pepper sauce. You
(06:02):
can't eat them raw. When they're raw, they're they're yeah, yeah,
like a like a thicker spinach with a big crunchy
stems to support those broad leaves. And when cooked they
get a soft and sort of slippy and tender. Yeah.
They're super easy to grow. You can start harvesting the
largest outer leaves about a month after planting, like from
seed to you have collared leaves who in about a month. Yeah,
(06:26):
and they will just keep going as long as they've
got sunlight and water. They'll tolerate temperatures upward of eighty
degrees fahrenheit that's about twenty seven celsius, and all the
way down to twenty fahrenheit, which is about negative seven celsius.
So they are much better suited to a wide range
of climates than most other stuff in Nebraska family or
a genus, I should say, but yeah, this is why
(06:48):
that that cold end of the range is why they're
a good winter vegetable in temperate zones and possibly explains
why they're a traditional New Year's food in the American South. Also,
cold weather makes col's sweeter, as as the plants will
convert storage starches into sugars when the weather gets cold.
It's sort of like a like a natural anti freeze
(07:08):
to keep everything in circulation. Yeah, So if you want
to sweeten up collars before you cook them, especially if
you're cooking them from a home garden situation, to stick
them in the fridge for a couple of days beforehand.
Let them, Let them do that process. Cool. My mom
used to I thought that was the coolest thing when
I was a kid, because she would before we'd eat them,
she'd be like, these are gonna be really sweet is
a cold winter. I was like, oooo cool. And they're
(07:34):
pretty good for you, oh gosh. Yeah, by themselves, they're great,
like a like a cup of collards has as much
calcium as five sixth of a cup of milk, as
much vitamin A as half of a carrot, as much
vitamin C as half of an orange, so much vitamin K. Yeah,
good punches of fiber and protein in there. They will
fill you up, and when combined with other sources of
(07:55):
fat and protein, they will really help keep you going.
Yeah mm hmmmm. Though when you boil or simmer collars
or any vegetable really in water or broth or whatever.
You're cooking out a bunch of their nutrients into the liquid.
So don't let that good stuff go to waste if
you don't want to eat it, like as part of
(08:17):
the collareds dish. If you don't want to like drink
it or anything, you can save it to add to
soups or sauces or yeah, just stop it up with
corn bread. Yep, my dad did that too. Oh yeah, yes,
and collars are eaten all over the world. Oh yeah.
East Africa has a dish a lot like Southern collars,
often incorporating chopter ground meat, tomatoes, garlic and or onion spices,
(08:37):
a little bit of lemon juice, cooking the whole pot
down with water or broth. It's sometimes called sukuma wiki,
which apparently translates to push or stretch the week. Ah.
There's the Portuguese called del verde, a green soup frequently
made with collared saltate and brazil, often with garlic in
the Caribbean. In the South, Yeah, they are frequently boiled
(08:57):
down with hamhock over a long period of time. A
large quantity of greens is sometimes called a meso greens.
Oh I love that. Yeah, yeah, true, yeah, you can.
You can serve the cooking liquid and greens together or
separate them and serve the liquid sometimes called pot liquor,
in a soup or as a separate soup. And this
is also a traditional African thing. Yes, I believe I heard.
(09:20):
I know someone who used to drink this and she
would say clean me out. That stuck with me as
a kid as well, because I wasn't quite sure what
it means it Now I know, Now you know, and
you're like, well, okay, good advice. Thanks, Yes, yes, and yes.
They are often the greens during this traditional Southern New
(09:40):
Year's meal, representing all that money, money, money, and they
are a cultural thing in the South. If you've never
lived here, you probably don't have a conception of exactly
how much like I don't know, like like like love
and pride people have for this humble dish. Absolutely. For instance, Charlotte,
(10:02):
North Carolina, has a collared green museum, the LATTEBA Life
and Times in Black American History Colored Museum. Savannah and
Atlanta have collared green festivals, as does Aiden, North Carolina.
Featuring a collared green eating contest. I've not heard of this,
and I'm already horrified. It lasts for thirty minutes. Oh no,
(10:25):
what yes, with a series of one pound servings of
collars delivered by the collared queens. Contestants have to not
pug for five minutes after the contest is over to
not be disqualified. Apparently a lot of people do. And
their record is eight and a quarter pounds of college
Oh my god, my god, I wonder what's the highest
(10:48):
weight of like things that people consume and competitive eating contests,
Like eight and a half pounds sounds like a lot.
It is, it is. I believe the previous record holder
his his record was like four pounds and it had
been standing for twenty years or something. So he came
back to town the next year to be a judge
(11:08):
and make sure there's no cheating, because he didn't believe
that his record had been toppled and by that much.
And sure enough, the guy the next year who won,
he didn't even get close. Oh wow, Oh, I'm not
accusing anybody of g I don't know. I don't know.
And in twenty eleven, South Carolina's legislature voted collars the
(11:29):
official state vegetable. In some parts of the South, it's
common for folks to have a collared patch and for
colored pots to be given as a wedding gift. Yeah. Absolutely,
oh oh, I would love a colored pot, right. And
they've featured in a lot of songs called greens have.
In the late nineteen forties, Georgia fiddler Warren Smith composed
(11:50):
Rabbit under a collared leaf that went, it's collared greens.
It's collared greens. First thing you do, you better put
him in a pot. Next thing you do, you better
eat him while it's hot. It's collared greens. But apparently
was a big elementary school, like kids sing a long song. Yeah.
They featured in poems. There was a collared poetry contest
in nineteen eighty four, the brainchild of two North Carolina
(12:11):
English professors. They got five hundred submissions from all over
the country and even some from Europe. They published one
hundred and twenty seven of the poems in a book
called Leaves of Green, and in twenty ten, R and
B singer Fantasia Burno released the song Collared Greens and
Cornbread and her Grammy nominated album back to me. One
of the main lines, went even got the nerve to say,
(12:32):
you're better than my mama's collared greens and cornbread. Oh yeah.
There's plays books a Stroke of good Fortune by Flannery
O'Connor nineteen forty nine, for example, controversies which we'll talk
about a little bit. You name it colld greens. It's
been in the mix, beloved by Elvis who ate them
with corn bread and buttermilk. Oh yeah, Elvis and your
(12:54):
dad see that. My dad would love to be compared
to Elvis. And then, according to John T. Edge of
the Southern Food Ways Alliance in the New Encyclopedia of
Southern Culture, Volume seven, Collared's quote probably more than any
other food delineate the boundaries of the Mason Dixon line.
(13:15):
And me and super producer Dylan saw him speak in Birmingham.
Oh that trip that I missed a year back. Yeah, yeah,
about a year ago. Yeah. And there was a cocktail
at this event that came with a temporary tattoo of
this guy's face, and I still have it, and I'm
waiting for the opportune moment. Oh, what are you going
(13:36):
to put it right on your face? So that you
can have a face on your face. Oh yeah, absolutely,
you're like, how else would I do it? I mean
I didn't even consider doing anything else. Oh but when when?
Clearly the next Southern Food Ways Alliance. Yes, you're right,
next time I go to one of their events. Yeah,
(13:57):
all right, that's solved. We need to talk about some
we do, but first we need to take a quick
break for a word from our sponsor. And we're back.
Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you, And we're back with
colored history, going all the way back to prehistoric time. Ah,
(14:22):
they probably originated in the Mediterranean, although they descended from
ancient wild Asian cabbages that grew before recorded history. Oh yeah,
Collards and kale were probably among the first plants cultivated period.
But they were probably the first brassicas specifically that humans cultivated,
(14:42):
and probably because they are so easy to grow. You
don't have to messily, it's just leaves. You just pick them. Yeah,
you don't have to wait for him to grow into
a specific shape. You don't have to tend to them
to do that. They just do it. Yeah, that's very nice.
It is. Oh, it's so polite. Right as early as
two thousand years ago, ancient Greeks and Romans grew collars
(15:03):
in their gardens along with koe, and they did not
differentiate between the two, which makes the research fun. It's
just they were trying to mess with us. They knew,
they knew we were coming. These two podcasters in the
future will make life difficult for them specifically. Well, good job,
good show, We see you, Alkus. That's right, that's right.
(15:26):
The Roman Empire spread collars throughout Europe. They were in
Britain by fourth century VC. And I believe we did
talk about this in our Kale episode because again, yeah,
they did not differentiate, so hard to say. Callers eventually
reached Africa, where the climate allowed for year round availability
of some type of green. By the time of slavery,
thirty to sixty greens were eaten in West and Central Africa.
(15:49):
They were frequently made into a sauce and served with rice.
Collars were grown in the first slave forts established by
the Portuguese. Even though cabbage and turnips had migrated south
from Europe by then, they weren't as hardy as kale
and collers. Collared seeds spread throughout the continent, and just
like the black eyed pea, collards arrived to the Americas
as part of the slave trade in the early sixteen hundreds.
(16:11):
Collared greens were one of a handful of crops and
slave people were allowed to grow for themselves. Also, just
like the black eyed pea, there are stories that immigrants
from Europe bought them with them as well, but most
of them, even people at the time, I don't know,
there was an odd vibe of it was all anecdote.
It was kind of like a cute tale to tell
or something like somebody bought the seeds from Europe and
planted them in their garden. I'm sure it probably happened,
(16:33):
but oh yeah, I mean it's a food. People probably
ate it. But for the most part, from yes, from
most of the history, it's like, yeah, no, these came
over with the slave trade. Right from the book Collars
a Southern Tradition from Seeds to Table, written by John T.
Morgan and Edward H. Davis, quote callers are aligned to
(16:54):
the very core historical facts of the American South. In
the confluence of African and British folk ways, collared seed
was deliberately transported from the gardens of ordinary British people.
Ah on the other hand Africans who were not allowed
to carry a thing when transferred to this country nonetheless
broad an asset just as essential their culinary knowledge, which
included an understanding of and preference for dark, leafy greens.
(17:17):
That knowledge in the food tradition among blacks and whites alike,
no doubt saved many Southerners from starvation. Southerners black and
white have potentially sustained a very wise cultural trait in
their preference for this food in spite of considerable derision
from outsiders and even some insiders. Yeah, and uh, that
pride that I was talking about earlier in this dish
(17:39):
is kind of a recent come upance or it's like,
is that the right word. I'm yea of just going like, oh, yeah, no,
this food is really good and it's really nourishing, and
you know, like I don't know all of the all
of the issues that we wrap up in both race
and class in this country and all others. Really, collars
(18:00):
are kind of at the base of that, because they
are this very earthy kind of dish. Yeah, and I've
gone back to my dad. My dad grew very, very,
very poor, and he was embarrassed and shamed of a
lot of the foods the epe. Oh no, but I'm
sure that they were delicious. They were, And I couldn't
figure it out as a kid, because I just didn't
understand it and they were all good, like I didn't.
(18:22):
Why are we ashamed of this thing that tastes really good?
But he wouldn't if I had friends over, he would
not like wanted to cook anything like that, which, yes,
kind of sad because it is such a wonderful, delicious thing. Yeah,
but yeah, yeah, historically important as well. Absolutely. According to
one historical account, when General Sherman came marching into the
(18:44):
South during the Civil War, the Confederate governor of Georgia,
Joseph Brown, deserted the capital, taking with him quote only
his cow and a load of collars. Huh, you know, okay.
And the novel Gone with the Wind Scarlet daydreams about
the days and foods before the war, including quote collards
swimming richly in pot liquor iridescent with grease. Whoo, Which
(19:08):
is funny because, as we said in our Turnip episode,
those represent the poor and starving. In that book, when
she says her famous line, as God is my witness,
I'll never go hungry again, but I think it probably
has to do with the cooking. Also a little bit
of both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Accounts from Confederate soldiers during
the Civil War indicate that collards were sometimes in their rations.
(19:29):
Post emancipation, James Patterson Green Out of North Carolina wrote
to the inhabitants of the country districts of the South,
the collard is very great blessing because when boiled in
a pot with a piece of fat meat and balls
of cornal dough having the size and appearance of ordinary
white turnips called dumplings, it makes palatable a diet which
would otherwise be all but intolerable. So much grace has
(19:52):
have been classes have been folded, all of this. Really,
it's delicious. Just eat it. Gosh, humans, get it all together.
I've never cooked cornbread dumplings in a pot of greens,
and I need to go do that immediately. I haven't
done it either, but I imagine it's delicious. Yeah. Collars
(20:13):
were still largely associated with the poor at this time.
A professor from Vanderbilt wrote in eighteen eighty three that
poor Southerners and black people knew no word better than collars. Aw. Yeah, well, uh, huh, okay, geez.
I know. In nineteen thirty four, Louisiana State University's Agriculture
Experiment Stations published a pamphlet that delved into the color
(20:34):
variety Louisiana Suite in their attempts to make it more viable.
So this is sort of like a ghost story in
colored greens past. Oh yeah, Like people aren't even sure
if it was real. Others claim, oh, it definitely was real,
and I agree it, and that the Louisiana sweet exactly,
it's just this variety. Apparently they did not succeed this,
(20:57):
this agricultural experiment station, although it's paw that there are
seed savers out there that kept it going. Oh yeah, okay,
mm hmm. It was around this time that some also
kind of racist and classist research was going into, like
why are all of these Southern farmers and poor people
(21:17):
so nutritionally well kept? And then all of a sudden,
researchers were like, could it be the colludes that they're eating? Well,
they have them outside on the doorstep and they just
eat them from their gardens, and so yeah, it was
a big mystery and I'm not sure why, but I
you know, Homechan nutritional science were both fields that were
(21:38):
developing at this point in time. And so I guess
people can be forgiven for having been ignorant. Yes, I
suppose so. And we did want to say there is
a lot of racism involved in this history, and some
of it we just did not want to repeat because
(21:59):
there were there's just looks. Yeah, it's one of those
really frustrating things that, you know, people who think that
they're better than another group of people for whatever reason,
you know, who are part of the institution that kept
those people from eating things other than collars, are like,
(22:20):
oh man, look at those people eat collars. It's like,
hmm yeah, just a lot of nastiness. Yeah, definitely, And
it's that kind of in a weird way, segues into
this next thing I want to talk about. Oh gosh, right,
I had no way. I actually no, I did know
this happened, but like in the very back of my mind.
So collared green controversy jumping all the way up to
(22:42):
twenty sixteen, Whole Foods caused a media fire storm and
a whole conversation around appropriation after they tweeted if you're
not cooking with these greens, you need to be how
to cook collars with a link to a recipe that
showcase a picture of collars topped with peanuts. Okay, okay.
(23:02):
CNN reported Whole Foods gets in hot water with black Twitter.
The author of this article, Carl Readi, wrote, Whole Food's
Twitter feed was quickly flooded with lots of memes and
plenty of side eye. I was annoyed too, because, like
other African Americans, I'm tired of people discovering things that
have been part of black culture for hundreds of years.
This was one of many many takedowns on I guess
(23:27):
not really the recipe, the tweet in the company's apparent
cluelessness and lack of cultural sensitivity. Okay, yes, but all right.
It seems the recipe they featured was inspired by Sean
Brock salted collar greens with roasted peanuts, which was featured
in Food and Wine, and or the Savannah peanut collared
(23:49):
greens recipe in Joe Dadney's book The Food, Folklore and
Art of Low Country Cooking. So legitimate sources, yes, of
like for a good recipe, Yeah, and there is a
handful of other sources and then a bunch of people
looking into it was enough where people were writing about
this controversy other than just there's a controversy. Connor Fredersdorff
(24:12):
over at The Atlantic wrote a great piece about this
whole thing, and it's surprisingly complex and nuanced. As someone
who just researched cancel culture for another show, Oh, this
is a fascinating example of how it is not black
and white. So the pairing of color greens and peanuts
is fairly common in Central and Southern Africa, somewhat hilariously,
(24:37):
although I'm I'm sure not so for the Whole food
social media manager. Their recipe did not even include peanuts.
It was just a picture that they used. Yes, But anyway,
a lot of the articles written about it were incorrect,
these kind of media blowing it up out of proportion,
and they were presented quite confidently as fact. And yeah,
(24:59):
it was really a case of not representing a situation
and accurately. Although I wouldn't go as far as say
Whole Foods is necessarily innocent, it's just complex. Yeah. Yeah,
we should all probably, I mean, especially if we are
a major corporation, be careful of what we post on Twitter. Yeah,
(25:21):
for sure, and especially especially where delicate manners of these
food ways that are yeah, so wrapped up in so
many people's histories and in so much of this weirdness
and negativity that we've been talking about this whole episode
exactly because like you said, we've had this long history
(25:42):
of sort of shaming people for eating foods that were
really the only things they could eat. And now whole foods,
which I mean it is called whole paycheck for a reason. Yeah,
it's like, hey, a new thing we found. I get it. Like,
I'm not saying they were in the right at all,
it's just it's it's it's more complicated than absolutely. Yeah.
(26:05):
And there's so many great articles out there to read
more about it if you would like to, because I
do think it was it was worth a read. Oh
well good, Yeah, absolutely, huh. And I guess that's what
we have to say about college greens. Who knew we
were going to end on a whole food's media tweet controversy.
(26:25):
You never again, you just never know where it's going
to go. You don't, You don't. That's the best weird
part about our jobs. It is true, it is true,
But we also like the best The other best weird
part we like is listener mail, which we have some
we do, but first we've got one more quick break
for a word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank
(26:54):
you sponsor, Yes, thank you, and we're back with listener mail.
Beeer wrote, upon hearing your tale of your family experiences
with the breakfast fruit soup version of Ambrosia, it brought
to mind a fruit soup I encountered a couple of
decades ago while I'm post Soviet hungry. It's called headage
(27:16):
madge Levish, meaning literally cold sour cherry soup, with its
main components being, of course sour cherries and the juice
along with water, sugar, cinnamon. Sometimes I'm an extract, and
usually a splash of a fairly strong red wine like
a Gavnae or maybe Merlow. It's then finished with either cream,
whipped cream or sour cream, but definitely not Mannis. I
(27:37):
can tell you sipping an icy bowl of this after
an afternoon of clearing high weeds for a humanitarian project
and the humid Hungarian summer countryside was the height of bliss.
There are a number of variations on it, with of
course many recipes online, but I don't think anywhere near
as many as there are with ambrosia, I highly recommend it.
That sounds amazing. Oh yeah, and trying to figure out
(27:59):
this pronunciation, which I'm still not sure if we have.
I apologies to get a solid truck. We did, we did,
but yeah, I was like, oh my gosh, that looks good.
I want to eat that right now. Sounds amazing. Oh
oh yeah, Katie wrote, I just want to give you
some loves and some thanks. I recently got a new
job at a small bean to bar chocolate maker in town.
(28:21):
I was nervous, so I listened to your podcast about
chocolate right before the interview, and I think it really
helped me out. I could talk a little more about
the process of chocolate making, but I still have a
lot to learn. The shop is one of about forty
bean to bar makers in the US and has the
largest selection of single origin bars. I eat bars made
from beans from just one place. All the beans are
(28:41):
ethically sourced. It's been a fantastic learning experience. Chocolate is
so complex, and even if the chocolate comes from the
same country, depending on where it grew, it will taste
wildly different from each other. I also have to say,
as a D and D player for five years and
a D and D podcaster. I love hearing you talk
about D and D. You too, soundly. You have a
great group to play with and loads of good food
(29:03):
and fun. We do, we do, Oh, it's true. And
also congrats on your job. Yeah, oh gosh, absolutely congratulations
so awesome. Ah. Our listeners do the coolest things, y'all do. Oh,
we really love hearing about it. We do. And if
you would like to tell us what you're up to,
(29:24):
you can, thanks to those two listeners who already did.
Our email is hello at saverpod dot com. We're also
on social media. You can find us on Facebook, Twitter,
and that other one Instagram. Yes, where we are at
saver pod on all three. We do hope to hear
from you. Savor is production of iHeartRadio and Stuff Media.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
(29:45):
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Thanks us always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and
Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening, and we hope
that lots more good things are coming your way.
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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