October 27, 2021 • 40 mins
This sometimes maligned candy is made from the fats of cacao seeds, not the solids, resulting in a subtle and smooth form of chocolate. Anney and Lauren dip into the buttery science and backwards history of white chocolate.
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Reese and I'm Lauren Bolva BAM and today
we have an episode for you about white chocolate. Yes,
white chocolate. Where did this idea come from, Lauren oh Man?
I was I was trying desperately to think of something
that would be good and HALLOWEENI for this our week
(00:28):
leading up to Halloween, and um, and I was going,
maybe some kind of awful like a like like tongues
or brains. But then I was like, I don't know,
like that's not it's not creepy to eat those things.
We just kind of consider it like a little bit
gross in modern American culture sometimes, but but that's not
like I don't want to paint it in that light
(00:49):
because it's food and people eat it. Uh. And I
was like, okay, maybe like a different kind of candy,
but we just kind of did a brand and then
I was like, I don't know, like something like caramel apple.
And then I was like, oh, I'm not going to
make anything about caramel all day or apples my fear right. Yeah,
even I'm a little afraid of losing a tooth on
(01:11):
a caramel apple so uh huh. I do have funny
story about a caramel apple involves me jumping out a
window because I thought I was Mary Poppins. But how
old were you at this point? Annie? I was eight
years old. And tell you what, Lauren, an eight year
old has never jumped with an umbrella with as much
(01:32):
confidence as I did in that moment. I wonder how
many like Mary Poppins related injuries there have been. Oh,
there's gotta be more than just me. I went plummeting
right past my parents window. They are friends over anyway,
there's a carl Apple involved. Oh okay, but yeah, anyway,
(01:56):
so I settled on white chocolate. That was I'm excited
about this, um, even though I'm not the biggest white
chocolate fan. It's definitely like, you know, if I have
a lineup of chocolates, it's probably at the bottom of
my list, but I'll eat it like it's and it's
good and plenty of things. Um. I think I've told
(02:16):
the story before of my brothers and I are chocolate preferences.
But like my older brother is a milk chocolate, I'm
dark chocolate. My younger brother is white chocolate. So it
costs a lot of yeah, yeah, and where the candy?
What kind of candy we're gonna get. However, though you
could be confident, like for me, they don't like dark chocolate,
(02:36):
So that was nice. I'm sure. Yeah, I didn't have
to worry about it. Yeah, if you and if you
got like a I mean, it was probably slightly later
in your childhood when they like, they're really good mixed
bags started coming out, But at that point that was
that that that was probably great for all three of
you because you're like, oh man, right, I've got my category.
No one else is going to touch it exactly. I
(02:57):
guess my older brother had the biggest to fear because
we both really liked milk. I mean, we all really
liked okay, but I would always go for the dark chocolate. Um.
White chocolate does make me think of when I was
a kid. We used to go on I can't remember
what it is. I think it was Black Mountain anyway,
this hike in Georgia, way up um and on the
(03:20):
way there's like this one small stand, uh where you
can stop and get snacks. And for some reason, they
really only stopped when it came to candy, white chocolate,
cookies and cream Hershey's okay, yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And
I I don't know why I wasn't a big candy person,
(03:43):
like I said, but for some reason, it felt so
like I've got to get this. I can't get this
anywhere else. Yeah. Um. But then I would inevitably kind
of feel a little ill from the sugar, the hiking,
the altitude, and then the curvy roads because if you've
never are driven on these like North Georgia roads to
(04:03):
get to hikes like that. Oh yeah, and that was
back when I used to get really really carsick. So
oh oh no, I have a bit of a like.
I'm not generally a person who says, you know, I
one time I threw up after eating this, I can
never eat it again. But my start does get a
little like about that. Uh yeah, it's fine, that's yeah.
(04:29):
It's just kind of the before suspicious eye glance. I'll
give it like, I don't know, Yeah, no, I I
can I can see that. I can understand that. Um.
I I love a white chocolate. Um, you know, cocoa
butter is delicious. I like I like eating fat that
it's fun to do. Uh, and when you put some
(04:52):
sugar into it, I'm like, all, heck, this is even better. Yeah, so, um,
I don't know. Yeah. I also have very distay memories
of that Hershey's Cookies and Cream white chocolate bar because
the little crunch that it had was so good and
even though it kind of tasted like, I don't know,
like like like chalky. Yeah, it's that it's that poor
(05:15):
quality chocolate. It's the poor quality chocolate that is probably
made by terrible slave labor that just tastes like weird
chalk that you're like, I don't know what this is.
Chocolate might not be it, um, but yeah, but still
still good because it's I don't know, yeah anyway, Yeah,
And we're going to get into that because that is
(05:37):
one of the big headlines that comes up when you
research white chocolate, perhaps for a food podcast. Is it
really chocolate? Um? But before we do that, you can
also see her past episodes on sugar and chocolate and
a bunch of candies. We've done a bunch of brands
and candies at this point. Sure, Sure, and many of
them um have white chocolate options with their lineup. Indeed,
(06:02):
especially for things like Halloween or the holidays in general,
they'll mix it up with that yeah, yeah, especially because
you can color it various things and then make right right,
you know, green or orange for exactly good for baking projects. Um.
But I guess that brings us to our question. White
chocolate what is it? Well, white chocolate is a type
(06:28):
of candy made from just the fats of cacao seeds
and not the solids. Generally, those fats are then blended
with dairy sugar and maybe some kind of stabilizers and flavorings,
creating a candy that is solid at room temperature, ivory
in color um, and a lot more mildly flavored than
either milk or dark chocolates which are made with those solids. Um,
(06:49):
and those solids are what contain the bitter and or
dry or tannic compounds in cocao. White chocolate is generally
creamier in texture that those solids are also a little
bit gritty, so you get less of that grit. It's
like a milder, creamier chocolate bar or chip or whatever.
It's It's like it's like you took the bitterness out
(07:10):
of even the milkiest milk chocolate. UM. In a lot
of ways, it reminds me of a of a cheese
like a like a guda before you smoke or age it,
or maybe like a sweet cream ice cream without any
additional flavorings. Um, it's it's like it's like chocolate at
a whisper. Oh no, I immediately got that songs like
(07:31):
in my head. I won't do it to have anybody else,
but you know what I'm talking about some of you.
I have no idea, but I'm sorry you would know
advice if I owned it. I won't do it to you. Okay, Well,
I hope that this comes up in the list of
titles that you send me later. It will. I love
the description. It's excellent. Um. Okay, so so so white chocolate. Um,
(08:03):
very very briefly about chocolate making, because again we've done
like one and a half episodes about how chocolate is made. Um.
But but yeah, So if you take a cocoa pod,
which is the fruit of the cocoo tree, and you
go to make it into candy, Um, what you're doing
is you're taking the fruit, removing the pulp from the
seeds and fermenting the seeds, roasting the seeds, shelling them,
(08:26):
and then crushing the shelled seeds, called the nibs, into
into a kind of pasty liquid called chocolate liqueur. And
from there you can add a number of things to
make your candy, and or you can subtract stuff. Um.
And for white chocolate, you're talking about a subtraction. Uh so.
So chocolate liqueur is made up of the whole roasted
(08:47):
seed of the cacao plant. Right that the solids, which
are all sorts of compounds or derivatives of compounds that
would have made up the plant or or helped the
seedling to grow. UM. And then also the fats, which
would be an energy source, UM and protectant for the
growing seedling. The fats are also called cocoa butter, and yes,
(09:09):
you can separate them out from the solids. So when
you get that cocoa butter, you might do a few
things to it before you use it in a candy. UM.
You might add it back into the cocoa solids to
affect the texture of the chocolate you're making. UM, or
you might write use it for white chocolate, or you
might send it off for using cosmetics, where it's a
pretty big thing right now. And in large scale productions
(09:35):
of cocoa butter, it's usually filtered and also decolorized using
some some minerals that latch onto some of the pigment
molecules for removal, you know, and then also deodorized using
either distillation process or some solvents that are going to
remove some of the volatile compounds that the flavor compounds
(09:55):
that are in the cocoa butter, leaving a relatively neutral product.
And so yeah, for for for white chocolate, you then
blend that cocoa butter with sugar, milk solids or milk
powder maybe lesser thin or another emulsifier, and maybe vanilla
or other flavorings, and wala white chocolate people are doing
(10:19):
so okay. So so yes, white chocolate is a product
of cocao. Mm hmmm, yes, I don't really want to
get into a semantic argument about whether it's chocolate or not, like,
because the word chocolate like kind of like connotes a
very specific thing, and that thing involves cocoa solids. But right,
(10:46):
but white chocolate still contains parts of the cacao plant,
and you can taste some of those CACAOI tastes in
white chocolate if it's a high quality enough white chocolate
cowie taste. I would love that was a scrip on back.
Hi a cowie taste. Oh gosh, this is why, this
(11:10):
is why I got fired from my marketing job. Um.
Uh but but people really are doing a lot of
interesting things with white chocolate these days, especially at that
kind of high end price range. Um. You know, like
playing with a cow origins to find interesting flavors in
the cocoa butter kind of like florals or herbs. Um.
(11:31):
Or using non deodorized cocoa butters to keep more of
those uh natural volatile compounds in there. Or using the
mild creaminess of white chocolate to feature flavors that are
unusual in desserts like um, like bay leaf or olives
or hops or or or mustard oh I know right um.
(11:55):
Or caramelizing the white chocolate to make blonde chocolate. Bar um.
This toasts the milk solids that you add to the cocao. Um.
It's sort of like when you brown butter and you
and you toast those milk solids and think at all,
oh nice and nice and rich and caramely. Yeah. The
the high cocoa butter content and smooth texture of white
(12:16):
chocolate means that it's it's great for applications like um,
like like making candy coating or say, if you're gonna
like coat a strawberry or something like that, it gives
like a really nice uh snap on a on a
candy shell, or really tender shavings for a garnish that
are just super melty on the tongue or um. Uh.
It's also a great stabilizer for things like butter creams,
(12:38):
or ganache or ice cream. H Yeah, I forgot about
white CHOCKI shaving Those are pretty good, right, Yeah, I
tried to get to the bottom. I didn't try too hard,
but I did try to get at the bottom of
white chocolate Bacadamian net cookies. Oh, because that's kind of
(12:58):
that's a very common flavor pairing, and I am I'm
not sure why either. Yeah. Yeah, And it's like I'm
assuming this is that subways across the country. But when
I grew up, that was like you could get three
types of cookies, four types, and one of them was
a white chocolate macotamia nut cookie. So I'm just curious
that's how that came to be uh project project for
(13:23):
another day. Um. White chocolate is also a flavor now
UM usually like a like a creamy, sweet cream vanilla
sort of flavor. And this can go into all sorts
of products that don't have anything to do with actual
cow um, you know, like instant mixed puddings or cakes,
or like like protein bars or other protein products, or
(13:43):
or candies like lollipops or something like that. Yeah. Um,
which I think is part of the argument about how
like white chocolate isn't real chocolate because it gets white
chocolate flavor gets applied to these products that are not chocolate,
that are definitely not in any way chocolate. Yeah. Yeah,
that makes sense, although there is a pretty long history
(14:04):
of doing this, so I can't wait to get into it. Yeah. Yeah,
But okay, if all of this has has has caught
your interest, if you're like, all right, maybe I want
to explore some white chocolate options. So if you're looking
for a good quality white chocolate, check for on the
label um cacao or cocoa content being listed. In this case,
(14:25):
it will refer to the cocoa butter content, and what
you're looking for is over okay. Yeah. If you can
see the color of the chocolate, it should not be
stark white because cocoa butter is itself a little bit
yellow like yellow to ivory, and that should carry through
to the final product if enough of it is in there. Also,
(14:46):
probably avoid chips. UM. White chocolate chips are generally formulated
to hold up during baking, which I mean is great
if that's what you're going for. Um, But the but
the sugars and oils and stabilizers that are added aren't
aren't there for taste? M hmm yeah mmmmm okay, okay,
Well what about the nutrition. White chocolate is fairly comparable
(15:11):
to milk chocolate UM nutrition wise, because both contain cocoa, butter,
and milk solids or powder, as opposed to dark chocolate,
which does not contain dairy though of course, the actual
makeup of the actual chocolate that you're looking at will
depend on the manufacturer's choices. Um. Also, some of the
like flavonoids that are contained in uh cow solids are
(15:33):
not going to be in white chocolate. So if you're
really eating chocolate only for the help for the heart
healthy benefits or potential heart healthy benefits, white chocolate is
not going to be your first choice. Also, I'm judging you,
but Lauren, I'm sorry. I try not to but uh, yeah,
(15:59):
it's it's to treat. It's you know, it's calorie dence,
lots of hats and sugars. It'll help fill you up,
but will not keep you going. Treats are nice. Have
some treats. Yeah, yeah, tricks and or tricks and or indeed,
I'm already thinking of like Halloween recipes I could make
using white chocolate. Yeah, well, we do have some numbers
(16:20):
for you, huh um. As often, the global market for
white chocolate was worth one point five billion dollars a
year UM, with a little less than a quarter of
that going to Brazil UM, where white chocolate that year
accounted for fifteen point five percent of their chocolate purchases UM,
(16:44):
which was the largest percentage in the world. Oh, curious
as to why, I don't know, they like some white chocolate.
Other white chocolate fans include folks in the Netherlands, South Africa,
and Mexico, all of which eight or or purchased over
ten percent white chocolate of their chocolate consumption UM, though
(17:07):
the UK and the US bought more overall. Yeah. At
that point, the global white chocolate market had grown in
the past five years since since two thousand eight, growth
since then seems to have slowed a little bit. Um.
The white chocolate market was only growing about two percent
per years of nineteen UM and perhaps related to all
(17:29):
of this is that the price of cocoa butter more
than doubled between two thousand five and making it potentially
yes a more expensive product to um to to to
work with and to purchase. M Meanwhile, UM only eleven
percent of Americans call white chocolate their favorite kind of chocolate,
(17:50):
prefer milk chocolate, and a thirty four percent prefer dark.
Mm hmm. I was like, I wonder if this is
what could I divine about someone's characters based on this?
Probably nothing, Probably absolutely nothing. You know, enjoy what you like. Yeah, yeah,
(18:18):
that's that's up to you. That I will not hud
you on. Ever, we have very little control arena, so
shockingly shockingly little, shockingly little. We do have some history
(18:38):
for you, we do, but before we get into that,
we are going to get into a quick break for
a word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you so again. See past episode on chocolate. You
(19:02):
did a wonderful brief rundown chocolate making Lauren, Thank you,
thank you. I'm not going to do so much of
that in this conception. I'll just tell you that right now. Well, well,
the well, the history of this one specifically is is
so fun and tangly it is, And in fact, I
think this is a first. It's sort of a backwards outline. Yeah,
(19:27):
all right, all right, so let's get into it, Alice.
With many things we discuss, people like to argue about
the exact origins of white chocolate. Yeah they do. Oh yeah. Um.
The consensus on the Internet largely seems to be that
Nestly invented white chocolate in the nineteen thirties. Some others
(19:48):
say the uk is six galic bar or milky bar
was the first known documented instance of white chocolate, and
I think this might specifically be commercialized white chocolate. Okay,
although people don't necessarily specify that, but I think that's
the general idea when they say that. Um, others say
(20:09):
the first instance of white chocolate wasn't until nine and
the almond topped Alpine white bar. Uh. Side note on that.
I remember that chocolate bar and I loved it, and
I'm mad that it doesn't exist anymore. Oh my goodness, Lauren,
remember my idea for a mini series Culturisted. It was
all about moss candies and nostalgia. I love how people
(20:35):
have those candies that they loved as a child and
you can't get it anymore, and it's just devastating. Yeah,
I mean I could, certainly, and I would rather support
like a like a local chocolate tier, like like a
smaller company. But anyway, please continue, alright, yes, I will.
(20:55):
Allegedly um all of this was an effort to use
up extra milk powder produced for World War One, and
or that it was a way to add vitamin enriched
milk to the diets of hospitalized children. Huh okay. Yeah.
There are some earlier references of white chocolate, though, or
(21:16):
at least potential references. One of the first appeared in
a nineteen sixteen issue of International Confectioner, in a piece
by T. B. McRobert. Here's a quote. I've heard a
weird story of white chocolate alleged to be made in Switzerland.
Doubtless snow white is a compliment to the snow capped
Alps of that country. I never saw such snow white chocolate,
(21:38):
but I would rather see it than eat it. Only
possible way to produce. Such a thing could be to
bleach the cocoa elements entirely with some sort of bleaching element,
as for instance, chlorine gas. I would rather see it
than eat it. That is such a bird. Oh, the
(22:02):
article goes on. Certainly we hear some queer and weird
stories from Europe these wartimes. Perhaps the snow white chocolate
is one of these wartime yards. Certainly snow white chocolate
is never likely to be any howling success in this country,
if in fact such a thing could ever be made
here and comply with our food laws, which is more
(22:23):
than doubtful. Dang wow right he was like, I don't
know what that is, and I resent it, like I
don't want to prove I don't think it. I don't
think it exists, but I don't like it anyway. Strong stance. Indeed, Yeah, heck,
(22:44):
that's the that's the Mama Bluth of of white Chocolate Reviews.
Love it, Okay, that's pretty fantastic. You'd likely to be
not likely to be any howling success in this country.
I just love it. Then there's this nineteen three entry
and Artemus Wards Encyclopedia Food Swiss white chocolate Apart from
(23:08):
milk chocolate types is cocoa butter sweetened either with sugar
or with sweet chestnut meal. M Okay, so that's that
sounds like white chocolate, it does, right, sure. Yeah. And
then in nineteen thirty one, there's this quote from the
Food Industries Manual. White chocolate is manufactured from sugar, milk,
(23:29):
powder or condensed milk, and cocoa butter, and the flavor
of chocolate is dependent upon the cocoa butter content. Accordingly,
a very strong cocoa butter is used in the manufacture. Okay,
that's definitely definitely white chocolate, right, yeah, I agree. Okay, So,
so maybe there is something to this whole like commercialized
(23:50):
product versus like what actually existed. Yeah, I think so.
And I also think as we've been reading these quotes,
there's some sort of like Europe who knows what they're
doing in Europe kind of discussion going on. Yeah yeah,
And stepping back even more before all of this, Oh yeah,
(24:13):
I know. An eighteen seventy two American cookbook called Here
we Go the Dessert Book, a complete manual from the
best American and foreign authorities, with original economical recipes. Love
it Um by A. Boston Lady also Love it Um
contained two recipes for white chocolate, and these recipes called
(24:37):
for things like oatmeal and tapioca, and the final product
was viewed less as a treat and more as something
to give to the ill, which was kind of a
through line I wasn't expecting in a white chocolate research. Sure,
but but it but it, But it makes sense along
the lines of of right, right, like a like like
butter beer kind of stuff where you know, like like
(24:59):
a considered palatable but also like highly caloric, like for
people who needed that kind of thing in their diets. Right, Yeah,
that does make sense. A similar recipe appeared in the
Recipe Book of a Druggist in one and I would
like to read the full name of this publication. Oh goodness, Okay,
here we go. The Druggist General Receipt Book, containing a
(25:22):
copious veterinary formulary, numerous recipes in patent and proprietary medicines,
Druggist nostrums, et cetera, perfumery and cosmetics, beverages, dietetic articles
and condimists, trade chemicals, scientific processes, and an appendix of
useful tables not unuseful tables, only useful ones. I'm working
(25:44):
on a book of unuseful tables. Um, but they got
this covered of the useful ones. Uh. Certainly you could
tell by my garage that my entire life is just
is just an appendix of unuseful tables. I love that. That
That should be the name of your memoir. It's fantastic. Okay, okay,
(26:08):
but but so but so we have we have these
recipes going back to the eighteen seventies, yes, and then
going back even further. Um, there's the eighteen sixty nine cookbook,
the Royal Cookrie Book, and it contained a recipe for
white chocolate caramel tablets. These are most likely, um, more
closely related to chewy caramels or something like toffee. And
(26:29):
I couldn't really pinned down why they were called white
chocolate exactly, because it seems the consensus seemed to be
they were more like a chewy caramel type situation. Um.
And I couldn't really even pin down chocolate was involved
at all, or that was involved at all. Nonetheless, Okay, UM,
well all right, I I can I can say for
(26:51):
a firm fact that all of this dates back in
one way or another. Um. Because the very concept of
chocolate as we know it, like a solid bar of
chocolate as we know it, goes back to the invention
of methods to separate cocoa butter out from cocoa solids.
And that happened in which was when a Dutch chemist
(27:16):
came up with the first cacao press. And this press
was designed to um to squeeze roasted cow beans to
remove like half to two thirds of the facts they contained,
leaving a sort of cake of cocoa solids that could
then be ground into what's now known as cocoa powder UM,
which is great for making drinking chocolate, which is what
the dude was mostly aiming for at the time. UM.
(27:38):
He also developed a process to treat the cacao before
before all of this, with an alkali to neutralize the
acid in it to make it less bitter and more
more blendy, more emulsifiable in drinks. UM. This is called
the Dutch process. Yes, but uh. The pressing process also
(27:58):
turned out to be real good for right making solid
chocolates too, oh uh. And that is first recorded as
happening in eighteen forty seven at the British chocolate company J. S.
Fry and sons Later, there was the discovery of what's
called the broma process in eighteen sixty five by an
employee at the Gear Delhi Chocolate Company. Most basically, the
(28:19):
process called for putting roasted cocoa beans in a bag
to let the cocoa butter drip out UM, allowing for
the remaining beans to be turned into coco powder while
the cocoa butter was processed into chocolate. But experts also
think that this excess of cocoa butter may have allowed
for more experimentation where it hadn't been possible before. Yeah,
(28:41):
so so right, so we've got again. It's really hard
to say, like who was the first person who did
this thing um, because as with many things, I don't
think that whoever was doing it first was necessarily writing
it down and patenting it um, as something like Nestlee
Corporation would have been doing yep, and the sure did um.
(29:02):
But first in we got the double zero bar out
of Minneapolis, Minnesota, and it consisted of caramel nougat and
almonds covered in white fudge. The rapper was just budet
with cool imagery like snowflakes and icicles. Um. And then
(29:23):
in n four, it was rebranded as the Zero Bar.
And this is yes thought to be one of the
earliest instances of commercialized white chocolate. And then in Nestley
introduced the Alpine White yes Um. And then we got
(29:45):
a series of I found a series of kind of
conflicting thoughts about white chocolate in the US. Um, not
all about, not all about at all. In New York magazine,
critic GAYL Green wrote in nine, white chocolate is the
season's new whimsy. Several cookbooks in the following decade embraced
(30:06):
white chocolate as an ingredient. By the nineteen nineties, it
was being used in the New Orleans Classic Bread Pudding.
And then I found a couple of New Orleans specific
articles about using white chocolate. Her She started producing white
chocolate kisses in the nineteen nineties, and then in two
thousand two, the U. S. F DA finally allowed for
(30:27):
white chocolate to officially be called chocolate. Uh. These rules
went into effect in two thousand four, and this was
after Hershey and what was then the Chocolate Manufacturers Association
had petitioned the crap out of the f d A
about this for for labeling purposes. You know, they were
arguing like, well, if if chocolate has to only have
(30:51):
ten or more cocoa mass, which is the facts plus
the solids, Um, you know, white chocolate to be like good, Um,
would would probably have more coco stuff than that, like
like at least. Yeah, so it should be called chocolate too,
(31:11):
is what I understand. The argument was, I haven't read
I haven't read the petitions myself, but yeah, yeah, they
were really keen on getting their products labeled as chocolate. Yeah.
And going back to what we discussed earlier, I think
this is a big part of why a lot of
the articles that come up when you type in white
chocolate are is white chocolate chocolate? Yeah, And that's probably
one of the things they were a little frustrated. Sure,
(31:35):
sure because of the increase in the use of cocoa
butter in the cosmetics industry. I think possibly these new
candy related rules had something to do with it, or
possibly it was something about the market supply and demand.
But at any rate, yes, um, the as I said earlier,
the market value for cocoa butter doubled from two thousand
five UM, which kind of at the end of the
(31:59):
day put put a little bit more stress. I think
on the market for white chocolate because it led to
a lot of large scale manufacturers routinely diluting their white
chocolate with other vegetable oils, which makes for an inferior product,
but a less expensive one. Um. And I think that
(32:21):
that is part of why some of the discourse against
white chocolate is negative today. Mm hmm, yeah, makes sense. Um.
And then in Starbucks released they're toasted white chocolate Moca
holiday drink, and I feel like, for me, white chocolate
(32:42):
has largely become associated with winter holidays, which also, I
know I've been saying this a lot. This episode makes
sense because of the coloring. Yep, that that that Alpine
snow white coloring. Yeah, mm hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah. This
has been a fun one. We went on a backwards
(33:03):
journey to try to figure this out, and now here
we are here we are today with with with yep
with Starbucks again yea again. Um. But yeah, yeah, I
enjoyed this one. I enjoyed it. It did make me
(33:24):
appreciate white chocolate more so. I think that's good. Yeah, no,
meet me me too. I was. I was pretty firmly
in the camp of like, heck yeah, white chocolate if
that's what you like before. But now I'm like, heck yeah,
white chocolate. So yeah, um, well we that that. That
is all that we have to say about white chocolate
for now, it is, But we do have some listener
(33:46):
mail for you, and we will get into that after
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back Thank you sponsored, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with have you ever been skiing? No? Scary,
(34:14):
I believe you. That's why he said no in that
tone of voice. I'm very clumsy though. I had a
great time, but I did not do will. I believe
that it's a fun thing for humans to do. I don't.
I don't necessarily get it. Um, but I grew up
in Florida's so I'm like, what, Oh, it was a
(34:38):
real it was a real blast. But like I have
many embarrassing, funny now stories from like immediately falling off
the ski lift and stopping the whole thing. I tried
my best. You did you did? Mm hmmm, Jennifer Route.
(34:59):
I started listening to your wonderful podcast beginning of the year.
I listened to y'all during my commutes to the hospital
for my work as an ICU nurse. Y'all make a
bright spot in my day. I wanted to write in
about a couple of episodes I've recently listened to. First,
your throwback classic Cheddar episode reminded me of my youth. See.
I grew up on a dairy farm and was involved
(35:20):
in a funny little contest called Dairy Products Judging. One
of the products we had to judge was cheddar cheese.
To properly judge the cheese, you would take your piece,
smell it, put it in your mouth, taste it, chew it,
and spit it out. Me, being the cheese lover I am,
did not follow this. Instead of spitting it out, I
(35:41):
would eat it. I mean, why waste good cheese? Sometimes
I would go back for seconds for the good ones,
claiming I needed extra tasting for proper judging. It took
the judges a while to catch onto what I was doing.
No regrets. Second, I just listen to your Gouda episode
tonight as I drove home from work. You mentioned the
(36:03):
Gouda cheese market and the cheese and craft fair and
the cheese experience. I don't know what the cheese experiences,
but this sounds like my kind of heaven. Any I
would love to know all the cheese that you have
on your cheeseboard. Oh well, the cheese experience does sound
(36:24):
I just have got to go to their h Yeah. Yeah,
I'm not entirely sure what it is either. Um. I
feel like you have to experience it to really find out. Um. Yes,
I think that's what the title. It's in the name.
It's right, it is. Uh. But also, oh my goodness,
thank you so much for for I mean, I know
(36:46):
it's your job, but for your service as an I
see you nurse anytime, but especially during during these are
COVID times. Oh yes, yes, um, definitely, And good for
you for eating more cheese and your dairy products judging.
I also wouldn't sit it out. That is not a
thing that I would do unless it was real bad
or oh yeah um yeah. And the cheese on my
(37:11):
cheeseboard is kuda goat cheese, gray air usually smoked care air, okay,
age cheddar and breathe um. And then normally my friends
bring what I would call like a fancyre cheese is
like espresso cheese or something like that, so so we
(37:34):
mix it up. We do like sometimes I'll switch things up,
but those are my my my five go tubes of
the go two Okay, all right, I oh man, I
don't yeah, I don't have I don't have five go twos.
If I'm making a cheese plate, I kind of have
like categories, um yeah, ranging from like like like real
(37:54):
young melty kind of bree styles to all the way
up to like a Parmesan type of thing, so and
everything in between, and then some some with the blue
stuff in it, and you know, yeah, I don't know.
It's it's a it's an art more than a science.
It is. It's good cheese, bored, it's a it's a
(38:15):
wonderful feeling, right right, Sophie or perhaps Sophia. We weren't
totally positive, but but yes, they wrote, I've been a
long time listener, but this is my second time writing in.
I tend to let episodes of Savor build up so
I can binge the show as I drive to work.
Because of this, I just got to your sangria episode
(38:36):
for our wedding in September. Congratulations. Um My now husband
and I had our signature drink for the weekend be
our homemade sangria. His family is very Portuguese, and one
of our wedding colors was Sangria red. We had a
sangria fountain and everything. I have a false sangria that
I make every year that even people who don't usually
drink sangria always ask for. I typically use Caberne, Sevignon,
(39:00):
well Pie, mcguella, Cuddies, Fiji apple, sparkling water, orange juice,
and apple cider. Then I throw in some sliced up
red apples. I prefer honey crisp, some oranges, cinnamon sticks,
and any other fruit you think would go well in it.
When anyone asks how much of each ingredient I used,
I always answer I measure with my heart. I have
no set measurements. I just keep adding things until it
(39:21):
tastes delicious. Oh that does sound delicious. Oh it sounds
so fall like. Yes, yes, I want to try it.
I too, shall measure with my heart. Yes. Thanks to
both of those listeners are writing in. If you would
(39:42):
like to drive to us, you can. We would love
to hear from you. Our email is Hello at savior
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod
and we do hope to hear from you. Sabor is
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,
you can visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
(40:02):
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Hello, I'm welcome to Savor Prediction of I Heart Radio.
I'm Any Reese and I'm Lauren Bolva BAM and today
we have an episode for you about white chocolate. Yes,
white chocolate. Where did this idea come from, Lauren oh Man?
I was I was trying desperately to think of something
that would be good and HALLOWEENI for this our week
(00:28):
leading up to Halloween, and um, and I was going,
maybe some kind of awful like a like like tongues
or brains. But then I was like, I don't know,
like that's not it's not creepy to eat those things.
We just kind of consider it like a little bit
gross in modern American culture sometimes, but but that's not
like I don't want to paint it in that light
(00:49):
because it's food and people eat it. Uh. And I
was like, okay, maybe like a different kind of candy,
but we just kind of did a brand and then
I was like, I don't know, like something like caramel apple.
And then I was like, oh, I'm not going to
make anything about caramel all day or apples my fear right. Yeah,
even I'm a little afraid of losing a tooth on
(01:11):
a caramel apple so uh huh. I do have funny
story about a caramel apple involves me jumping out a
window because I thought I was Mary Poppins. But how
old were you at this point? Annie? I was eight
years old. And tell you what, Lauren, an eight year
old has never jumped with an umbrella with as much
(01:32):
confidence as I did in that moment. I wonder how
many like Mary Poppins related injuries there have been. Oh,
there's gotta be more than just me. I went plummeting
right past my parents window. They are friends over anyway,
there's a carl Apple involved. Oh okay, but yeah, anyway,
(01:56):
so I settled on white chocolate. That was I'm excited
about this, um, even though I'm not the biggest white
chocolate fan. It's definitely like, you know, if I have
a lineup of chocolates, it's probably at the bottom of
my list, but I'll eat it like it's and it's
good and plenty of things. Um. I think I've told
(02:16):
the story before of my brothers and I are chocolate preferences.
But like my older brother is a milk chocolate, I'm
dark chocolate. My younger brother is white chocolate. So it
costs a lot of yeah, yeah, and where the candy?
What kind of candy we're gonna get. However, though you
could be confident, like for me, they don't like dark chocolate,
(02:36):
So that was nice. I'm sure. Yeah, I didn't have
to worry about it. Yeah, if you and if you
got like a I mean, it was probably slightly later
in your childhood when they like, they're really good mixed
bags started coming out, But at that point that was
that that that was probably great for all three of
you because you're like, oh man, right, I've got my category.
No one else is going to touch it exactly. I
(02:57):
guess my older brother had the biggest to fear because
we both really liked milk. I mean, we all really
liked okay, but I would always go for the dark chocolate. Um.
White chocolate does make me think of when I was
a kid. We used to go on I can't remember
what it is. I think it was Black Mountain anyway,
this hike in Georgia, way up um and on the
(03:20):
way there's like this one small stand, uh where you
can stop and get snacks. And for some reason, they
really only stopped when it came to candy, white chocolate,
cookies and cream Hershey's okay, yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And
I I don't know why I wasn't a big candy person,
(03:43):
like I said, but for some reason, it felt so
like I've got to get this. I can't get this
anywhere else. Yeah. Um. But then I would inevitably kind
of feel a little ill from the sugar, the hiking,
the altitude, and then the curvy roads because if you've
never are driven on these like North Georgia roads to
(04:03):
get to hikes like that. Oh yeah, and that was
back when I used to get really really carsick. So
oh oh no, I have a bit of a like.
I'm not generally a person who says, you know, I
one time I threw up after eating this, I can
never eat it again. But my start does get a
little like about that. Uh yeah, it's fine, that's yeah.
(04:29):
It's just kind of the before suspicious eye glance. I'll
give it like, I don't know, Yeah, no, I I
can I can see that. I can understand that. Um.
I I love a white chocolate. Um, you know, cocoa
butter is delicious. I like I like eating fat that
it's fun to do. Uh, and when you put some
(04:52):
sugar into it, I'm like, all, heck, this is even better. Yeah, so, um,
I don't know. Yeah. I also have very distay memories
of that Hershey's Cookies and Cream white chocolate bar because
the little crunch that it had was so good and
even though it kind of tasted like, I don't know,
like like like chalky. Yeah, it's that it's that poor
(05:15):
quality chocolate. It's the poor quality chocolate that is probably
made by terrible slave labor that just tastes like weird
chalk that you're like, I don't know what this is.
Chocolate might not be it, um, but yeah, but still
still good because it's I don't know, yeah anyway, Yeah,
And we're going to get into that because that is
(05:37):
one of the big headlines that comes up when you
research white chocolate, perhaps for a food podcast. Is it
really chocolate? Um? But before we do that, you can
also see her past episodes on sugar and chocolate and
a bunch of candies. We've done a bunch of brands
and candies at this point. Sure, Sure, and many of
them um have white chocolate options with their lineup. Indeed,
(06:02):
especially for things like Halloween or the holidays in general,
they'll mix it up with that yeah, yeah, especially because
you can color it various things and then make right right,
you know, green or orange for exactly good for baking projects. Um.
But I guess that brings us to our question. White
chocolate what is it? Well, white chocolate is a type
(06:28):
of candy made from just the fats of cacao seeds
and not the solids. Generally, those fats are then blended
with dairy sugar and maybe some kind of stabilizers and flavorings,
creating a candy that is solid at room temperature, ivory
in color um, and a lot more mildly flavored than
either milk or dark chocolates which are made with those solids. Um,
(06:49):
and those solids are what contain the bitter and or
dry or tannic compounds in cocao. White chocolate is generally
creamier in texture that those solids are also a little
bit gritty, so you get less of that grit. It's
like a milder, creamier chocolate bar or chip or whatever.
It's It's like it's like you took the bitterness out
(07:10):
of even the milkiest milk chocolate. UM. In a lot
of ways, it reminds me of a of a cheese
like a like a guda before you smoke or age it,
or maybe like a sweet cream ice cream without any
additional flavorings. Um, it's it's like it's like chocolate at
a whisper. Oh no, I immediately got that songs like
(07:31):
in my head. I won't do it to have anybody else,
but you know what I'm talking about some of you.
I have no idea, but I'm sorry you would know
advice if I owned it. I won't do it to you. Okay, Well,
I hope that this comes up in the list of
titles that you send me later. It will. I love
the description. It's excellent. Um. Okay, so so so white chocolate. Um,
(08:03):
very very briefly about chocolate making, because again we've done
like one and a half episodes about how chocolate is made. Um.
But but yeah, So if you take a cocoa pod,
which is the fruit of the cocoo tree, and you
go to make it into candy, Um, what you're doing
is you're taking the fruit, removing the pulp from the
seeds and fermenting the seeds, roasting the seeds, shelling them,
(08:26):
and then crushing the shelled seeds, called the nibs, into
into a kind of pasty liquid called chocolate liqueur. And
from there you can add a number of things to
make your candy, and or you can subtract stuff. Um.
And for white chocolate, you're talking about a subtraction. Uh so.
So chocolate liqueur is made up of the whole roasted
(08:47):
seed of the cacao plant. Right that the solids, which
are all sorts of compounds or derivatives of compounds that
would have made up the plant or or helped the
seedling to grow. UM. And then also the fats, which
would be an energy source, UM and protectant for the
growing seedling. The fats are also called cocoa butter, and yes,
(09:09):
you can separate them out from the solids. So when
you get that cocoa butter, you might do a few
things to it before you use it in a candy. UM.
You might add it back into the cocoa solids to
affect the texture of the chocolate you're making. UM, or
you might write use it for white chocolate, or you
might send it off for using cosmetics, where it's a
pretty big thing right now. And in large scale productions
(09:35):
of cocoa butter, it's usually filtered and also decolorized using
some some minerals that latch onto some of the pigment
molecules for removal, you know, and then also deodorized using
either distillation process or some solvents that are going to
remove some of the volatile compounds that the flavor compounds
(09:55):
that are in the cocoa butter, leaving a relatively neutral product.
And so yeah, for for for white chocolate, you then
blend that cocoa butter with sugar, milk solids or milk
powder maybe lesser thin or another emulsifier, and maybe vanilla
or other flavorings, and wala white chocolate people are doing
(10:19):
so okay. So so yes, white chocolate is a product
of cocao. Mm hmmm, yes, I don't really want to
get into a semantic argument about whether it's chocolate or not, like,
because the word chocolate like kind of like connotes a
very specific thing, and that thing involves cocoa solids. But right,
(10:46):
but white chocolate still contains parts of the cacao plant,
and you can taste some of those CACAOI tastes in
white chocolate if it's a high quality enough white chocolate
cowie taste. I would love that was a scrip on back.
Hi a cowie taste. Oh gosh, this is why, this
(11:10):
is why I got fired from my marketing job. Um.
Uh but but people really are doing a lot of
interesting things with white chocolate these days, especially at that
kind of high end price range. Um. You know, like
playing with a cow origins to find interesting flavors in
the cocoa butter kind of like florals or herbs. Um.
(11:31):
Or using non deodorized cocoa butters to keep more of
those uh natural volatile compounds in there. Or using the
mild creaminess of white chocolate to feature flavors that are
unusual in desserts like um, like bay leaf or olives
or hops or or or mustard oh I know right um.
(11:55):
Or caramelizing the white chocolate to make blonde chocolate. Bar um.
This toasts the milk solids that you add to the cocao. Um.
It's sort of like when you brown butter and you
and you toast those milk solids and think at all,
oh nice and nice and rich and caramely. Yeah. The
the high cocoa butter content and smooth texture of white
(12:16):
chocolate means that it's it's great for applications like um,
like like making candy coating or say, if you're gonna
like coat a strawberry or something like that, it gives
like a really nice uh snap on a on a
candy shell, or really tender shavings for a garnish that
are just super melty on the tongue or um. Uh.
It's also a great stabilizer for things like butter creams,
(12:38):
or ganache or ice cream. H Yeah, I forgot about
white CHOCKI shaving Those are pretty good, right, Yeah, I
tried to get to the bottom. I didn't try too hard,
but I did try to get at the bottom of
white chocolate Bacadamian net cookies. Oh, because that's kind of
(12:58):
that's a very common flavor pairing, and I am I'm
not sure why either. Yeah. Yeah, And it's like I'm
assuming this is that subways across the country. But when
I grew up, that was like you could get three
types of cookies, four types, and one of them was
a white chocolate macotamia nut cookie. So I'm just curious
that's how that came to be uh project project for
(13:23):
another day. Um. White chocolate is also a flavor now
UM usually like a like a creamy, sweet cream vanilla
sort of flavor. And this can go into all sorts
of products that don't have anything to do with actual
cow um, you know, like instant mixed puddings or cakes,
or like like protein bars or other protein products, or
(13:43):
or candies like lollipops or something like that. Yeah. Um,
which I think is part of the argument about how
like white chocolate isn't real chocolate because it gets white
chocolate flavor gets applied to these products that are not chocolate,
that are definitely not in any way chocolate. Yeah. Yeah,
that makes sense, although there is a pretty long history
(14:04):
of doing this, so I can't wait to get into it. Yeah. Yeah,
But okay, if all of this has has has caught
your interest, if you're like, all right, maybe I want
to explore some white chocolate options. So if you're looking
for a good quality white chocolate, check for on the
label um cacao or cocoa content being listed. In this case,
(14:25):
it will refer to the cocoa butter content, and what
you're looking for is over okay. Yeah. If you can
see the color of the chocolate, it should not be
stark white because cocoa butter is itself a little bit
yellow like yellow to ivory, and that should carry through
to the final product if enough of it is in there. Also,
(14:46):
probably avoid chips. UM. White chocolate chips are generally formulated
to hold up during baking, which I mean is great
if that's what you're going for. Um, But the but
the sugars and oils and stabilizers that are added aren't
aren't there for taste? M hmm yeah mmmmm okay, okay,
Well what about the nutrition. White chocolate is fairly comparable
(15:11):
to milk chocolate UM nutrition wise, because both contain cocoa, butter,
and milk solids or powder, as opposed to dark chocolate,
which does not contain dairy though of course, the actual
makeup of the actual chocolate that you're looking at will
depend on the manufacturer's choices. Um. Also, some of the
like flavonoids that are contained in uh cow solids are
(15:33):
not going to be in white chocolate. So if you're
really eating chocolate only for the help for the heart
healthy benefits or potential heart healthy benefits, white chocolate is
not going to be your first choice. Also, I'm judging you,
but Lauren, I'm sorry. I try not to but uh, yeah,
(15:59):
it's it's to treat. It's you know, it's calorie dence,
lots of hats and sugars. It'll help fill you up,
but will not keep you going. Treats are nice. Have
some treats. Yeah, yeah, tricks and or tricks and or indeed,
I'm already thinking of like Halloween recipes I could make
using white chocolate. Yeah, well, we do have some numbers
(16:20):
for you, huh um. As often, the global market for
white chocolate was worth one point five billion dollars a
year UM, with a little less than a quarter of
that going to Brazil UM, where white chocolate that year
accounted for fifteen point five percent of their chocolate purchases UM,
(16:44):
which was the largest percentage in the world. Oh, curious
as to why, I don't know, they like some white chocolate.
Other white chocolate fans include folks in the Netherlands, South Africa,
and Mexico, all of which eight or or purchased over
ten percent white chocolate of their chocolate consumption UM, though
(17:07):
the UK and the US bought more overall. Yeah. At
that point, the global white chocolate market had grown in
the past five years since since two thousand eight, growth
since then seems to have slowed a little bit. Um.
The white chocolate market was only growing about two percent
per years of nineteen UM and perhaps related to all
(17:29):
of this is that the price of cocoa butter more
than doubled between two thousand five and making it potentially
yes a more expensive product to um to to to
work with and to purchase. M Meanwhile, UM only eleven
percent of Americans call white chocolate their favorite kind of chocolate,
(17:50):
prefer milk chocolate, and a thirty four percent prefer dark.
Mm hmm. I was like, I wonder if this is
what could I divine about someone's characters based on this?
Probably nothing, Probably absolutely nothing. You know, enjoy what you like. Yeah, yeah,
(18:18):
that's that's up to you. That I will not hud
you on. Ever, we have very little control arena, so
shockingly shockingly little, shockingly little. We do have some history
(18:38):
for you, we do, but before we get into that,
we are going to get into a quick break for
a word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,
thank you so again. See past episode on chocolate. You
(19:02):
did a wonderful brief rundown chocolate making Lauren, Thank you,
thank you. I'm not going to do so much of
that in this conception. I'll just tell you that right now. Well, well,
the well, the history of this one specifically is is
so fun and tangly it is, And in fact, I
think this is a first. It's sort of a backwards outline. Yeah,
(19:27):
all right, all right, so let's get into it, Alice.
With many things we discuss, people like to argue about
the exact origins of white chocolate. Yeah they do. Oh yeah. Um.
The consensus on the Internet largely seems to be that
Nestly invented white chocolate in the nineteen thirties. Some others
(19:48):
say the uk is six galic bar or milky bar
was the first known documented instance of white chocolate, and
I think this might specifically be commercialized white chocolate. Okay,
although people don't necessarily specify that, but I think that's
the general idea when they say that. Um, others say
(20:09):
the first instance of white chocolate wasn't until nine and
the almond topped Alpine white bar. Uh. Side note on that.
I remember that chocolate bar and I loved it, and
I'm mad that it doesn't exist anymore. Oh my goodness, Lauren,
remember my idea for a mini series Culturisted. It was
all about moss candies and nostalgia. I love how people
(20:35):
have those candies that they loved as a child and
you can't get it anymore, and it's just devastating. Yeah,
I mean I could, certainly, and I would rather support
like a like a local chocolate tier, like like a
smaller company. But anyway, please continue, alright, yes, I will.
(20:55):
Allegedly um all of this was an effort to use
up extra milk powder produced for World War One, and
or that it was a way to add vitamin enriched
milk to the diets of hospitalized children. Huh okay. Yeah.
There are some earlier references of white chocolate, though, or
(21:16):
at least potential references. One of the first appeared in
a nineteen sixteen issue of International Confectioner, in a piece
by T. B. McRobert. Here's a quote. I've heard a
weird story of white chocolate alleged to be made in Switzerland.
Doubtless snow white is a compliment to the snow capped
Alps of that country. I never saw such snow white chocolate,
(21:38):
but I would rather see it than eat it. Only
possible way to produce. Such a thing could be to
bleach the cocoa elements entirely with some sort of bleaching element,
as for instance, chlorine gas. I would rather see it
than eat it. That is such a bird. Oh, the
(22:02):
article goes on. Certainly we hear some queer and weird
stories from Europe these wartimes. Perhaps the snow white chocolate
is one of these wartime yards. Certainly snow white chocolate
is never likely to be any howling success in this country,
if in fact such a thing could ever be made
here and comply with our food laws, which is more
(22:23):
than doubtful. Dang wow right he was like, I don't
know what that is, and I resent it, like I
don't want to prove I don't think it. I don't
think it exists, but I don't like it anyway. Strong stance. Indeed, Yeah, heck,
(22:44):
that's the that's the Mama Bluth of of white Chocolate Reviews.
Love it, Okay, that's pretty fantastic. You'd likely to be
not likely to be any howling success in this country.
I just love it. Then there's this nineteen three entry
and Artemus Wards Encyclopedia Food Swiss white chocolate Apart from
(23:08):
milk chocolate types is cocoa butter sweetened either with sugar
or with sweet chestnut meal. M Okay, so that's that
sounds like white chocolate, it does, right, sure. Yeah. And
then in nineteen thirty one, there's this quote from the
Food Industries Manual. White chocolate is manufactured from sugar, milk,
(23:29):
powder or condensed milk, and cocoa butter, and the flavor
of chocolate is dependent upon the cocoa butter content. Accordingly,
a very strong cocoa butter is used in the manufacture. Okay,
that's definitely definitely white chocolate, right, yeah, I agree. Okay, So,
so maybe there is something to this whole like commercialized
(23:50):
product versus like what actually existed. Yeah, I think so.
And I also think as we've been reading these quotes,
there's some sort of like Europe who knows what they're
doing in Europe kind of discussion going on. Yeah yeah,
And stepping back even more before all of this, Oh yeah,
(24:13):
I know. An eighteen seventy two American cookbook called Here
we Go the Dessert Book, a complete manual from the
best American and foreign authorities, with original economical recipes. Love
it Um by A. Boston Lady also Love it Um
contained two recipes for white chocolate, and these recipes called
(24:37):
for things like oatmeal and tapioca, and the final product
was viewed less as a treat and more as something
to give to the ill, which was kind of a
through line I wasn't expecting in a white chocolate research. Sure,
but but it but it, But it makes sense along
the lines of of right, right, like a like like
butter beer kind of stuff where you know, like like
(24:59):
a considered palatable but also like highly caloric, like for
people who needed that kind of thing in their diets. Right, Yeah,
that does make sense. A similar recipe appeared in the
Recipe Book of a Druggist in one and I would
like to read the full name of this publication. Oh goodness, Okay,
here we go. The Druggist General Receipt Book, containing a
(25:22):
copious veterinary formulary, numerous recipes in patent and proprietary medicines,
Druggist nostrums, et cetera, perfumery and cosmetics, beverages, dietetic articles
and condimists, trade chemicals, scientific processes, and an appendix of
useful tables not unuseful tables, only useful ones. I'm working
(25:44):
on a book of unuseful tables. Um, but they got
this covered of the useful ones. Uh. Certainly you could
tell by my garage that my entire life is just
is just an appendix of unuseful tables. I love that. That
That should be the name of your memoir. It's fantastic. Okay, okay,
(26:08):
but but so but so we have we have these
recipes going back to the eighteen seventies, yes, and then
going back even further. Um, there's the eighteen sixty nine cookbook,
the Royal Cookrie Book, and it contained a recipe for
white chocolate caramel tablets. These are most likely, um, more
closely related to chewy caramels or something like toffee. And
(26:29):
I couldn't really pinned down why they were called white
chocolate exactly, because it seems the consensus seemed to be
they were more like a chewy caramel type situation. Um.
And I couldn't really even pin down chocolate was involved
at all, or that was involved at all. Nonetheless, Okay, UM,
well all right, I I can I can say for
(26:51):
a firm fact that all of this dates back in
one way or another. Um. Because the very concept of
chocolate as we know it, like a solid bar of
chocolate as we know it, goes back to the invention
of methods to separate cocoa butter out from cocoa solids.
And that happened in which was when a Dutch chemist
(27:16):
came up with the first cacao press. And this press
was designed to um to squeeze roasted cow beans to
remove like half to two thirds of the facts they contained,
leaving a sort of cake of cocoa solids that could
then be ground into what's now known as cocoa powder UM,
which is great for making drinking chocolate, which is what
the dude was mostly aiming for at the time. UM.
(27:38):
He also developed a process to treat the cacao before
before all of this, with an alkali to neutralize the
acid in it to make it less bitter and more
more blendy, more emulsifiable in drinks. UM. This is called
the Dutch process. Yes, but uh. The pressing process also
(27:58):
turned out to be real good for right making solid
chocolates too, oh uh. And that is first recorded as
happening in eighteen forty seven at the British chocolate company J. S.
Fry and sons Later, there was the discovery of what's
called the broma process in eighteen sixty five by an
employee at the Gear Delhi Chocolate Company. Most basically, the
(28:19):
process called for putting roasted cocoa beans in a bag
to let the cocoa butter drip out UM, allowing for
the remaining beans to be turned into coco powder while
the cocoa butter was processed into chocolate. But experts also
think that this excess of cocoa butter may have allowed
for more experimentation where it hadn't been possible before. Yeah,
(28:41):
so so right, so we've got again. It's really hard
to say, like who was the first person who did
this thing um, because as with many things, I don't
think that whoever was doing it first was necessarily writing
it down and patenting it um, as something like Nestlee
Corporation would have been doing yep, and the sure did um.
(29:02):
But first in we got the double zero bar out
of Minneapolis, Minnesota, and it consisted of caramel nougat and
almonds covered in white fudge. The rapper was just budet
with cool imagery like snowflakes and icicles. Um. And then
(29:23):
in n four, it was rebranded as the Zero Bar.
And this is yes thought to be one of the
earliest instances of commercialized white chocolate. And then in Nestley
introduced the Alpine White yes Um. And then we got
(29:45):
a series of I found a series of kind of
conflicting thoughts about white chocolate in the US. Um, not
all about, not all about at all. In New York magazine,
critic GAYL Green wrote in nine, white chocolate is the
season's new whimsy. Several cookbooks in the following decade embraced
(30:06):
white chocolate as an ingredient. By the nineteen nineties, it
was being used in the New Orleans Classic Bread Pudding.
And then I found a couple of New Orleans specific
articles about using white chocolate. Her She started producing white
chocolate kisses in the nineteen nineties, and then in two
thousand two, the U. S. F DA finally allowed for
(30:27):
white chocolate to officially be called chocolate. Uh. These rules
went into effect in two thousand four, and this was
after Hershey and what was then the Chocolate Manufacturers Association
had petitioned the crap out of the f d A
about this for for labeling purposes. You know, they were
arguing like, well, if if chocolate has to only have
(30:51):
ten or more cocoa mass, which is the facts plus
the solids, Um, you know, white chocolate to be like good, Um,
would would probably have more coco stuff than that, like
like at least. Yeah, so it should be called chocolate too,
(31:11):
is what I understand. The argument was, I haven't read
I haven't read the petitions myself, but yeah, yeah, they
were really keen on getting their products labeled as chocolate. Yeah.
And going back to what we discussed earlier, I think
this is a big part of why a lot of
the articles that come up when you type in white
chocolate are is white chocolate chocolate? Yeah, And that's probably
one of the things they were a little frustrated. Sure,
(31:35):
sure because of the increase in the use of cocoa
butter in the cosmetics industry. I think possibly these new
candy related rules had something to do with it, or
possibly it was something about the market supply and demand.
But at any rate, yes, um, the as I said earlier,
the market value for cocoa butter doubled from two thousand
five UM, which kind of at the end of the
(31:59):
day put put a little bit more stress. I think
on the market for white chocolate because it led to
a lot of large scale manufacturers routinely diluting their white
chocolate with other vegetable oils, which makes for an inferior product,
but a less expensive one. Um. And I think that
(32:21):
that is part of why some of the discourse against
white chocolate is negative today. Mm hmm, yeah, makes sense. Um.
And then in Starbucks released they're toasted white chocolate Moca
holiday drink, and I feel like, for me, white chocolate
(32:42):
has largely become associated with winter holidays, which also, I
know I've been saying this a lot. This episode makes
sense because of the coloring. Yep, that that that Alpine
snow white coloring. Yeah, mm hmmm mm hmmm. Yeah. This
has been a fun one. We went on a backwards
(33:03):
journey to try to figure this out, and now here
we are here we are today with with with yep
with Starbucks again yea again. Um. But yeah, yeah, I
enjoyed this one. I enjoyed it. It did make me
(33:24):
appreciate white chocolate more so. I think that's good. Yeah, no,
meet me me too. I was. I was pretty firmly
in the camp of like, heck yeah, white chocolate if
that's what you like before. But now I'm like, heck yeah,
white chocolate. So yeah, um, well we that that. That
is all that we have to say about white chocolate
for now, it is, But we do have some listener
(33:46):
mail for you, and we will get into that after
we get back from one more quick break for a
word from our sponsor, and we're back Thank you sponsored, Yes,
thank you, And we're back with have you ever been skiing? No? Scary,
(34:14):
I believe you. That's why he said no in that
tone of voice. I'm very clumsy though. I had a
great time, but I did not do will. I believe
that it's a fun thing for humans to do. I don't.
I don't necessarily get it. Um, but I grew up
in Florida's so I'm like, what, Oh, it was a
(34:38):
real it was a real blast. But like I have
many embarrassing, funny now stories from like immediately falling off
the ski lift and stopping the whole thing. I tried
my best. You did you did? Mm hmmm, Jennifer Route.
(34:59):
I started listening to your wonderful podcast beginning of the year.
I listened to y'all during my commutes to the hospital
for my work as an ICU nurse. Y'all make a
bright spot in my day. I wanted to write in
about a couple of episodes I've recently listened to. First,
your throwback classic Cheddar episode reminded me of my youth. See.
I grew up on a dairy farm and was involved
(35:20):
in a funny little contest called Dairy Products Judging. One
of the products we had to judge was cheddar cheese.
To properly judge the cheese, you would take your piece,
smell it, put it in your mouth, taste it, chew it,
and spit it out. Me, being the cheese lover I am,
did not follow this. Instead of spitting it out, I
(35:41):
would eat it. I mean, why waste good cheese? Sometimes
I would go back for seconds for the good ones,
claiming I needed extra tasting for proper judging. It took
the judges a while to catch onto what I was doing.
No regrets. Second, I just listen to your Gouda episode
tonight as I drove home from work. You mentioned the
(36:03):
Gouda cheese market and the cheese and craft fair and
the cheese experience. I don't know what the cheese experiences,
but this sounds like my kind of heaven. Any I
would love to know all the cheese that you have
on your cheeseboard. Oh well, the cheese experience does sound
(36:24):
I just have got to go to their h Yeah. Yeah,
I'm not entirely sure what it is either. Um. I
feel like you have to experience it to really find out. Um. Yes,
I think that's what the title. It's in the name.
It's right, it is. Uh. But also, oh my goodness,
thank you so much for for I mean, I know
(36:46):
it's your job, but for your service as an I
see you nurse anytime, but especially during during these are
COVID times. Oh yes, yes, um, definitely, And good for
you for eating more cheese and your dairy products judging.
I also wouldn't sit it out. That is not a
thing that I would do unless it was real bad
or oh yeah um yeah. And the cheese on my
(37:11):
cheeseboard is kuda goat cheese, gray air usually smoked care air, okay,
age cheddar and breathe um. And then normally my friends
bring what I would call like a fancyre cheese is
like espresso cheese or something like that, so so we
(37:34):
mix it up. We do like sometimes I'll switch things up,
but those are my my my five go tubes of
the go two Okay, all right, I oh man, I
don't yeah, I don't have I don't have five go twos.
If I'm making a cheese plate, I kind of have
like categories, um yeah, ranging from like like like real
(37:54):
young melty kind of bree styles to all the way
up to like a Parmesan type of thing, so and
everything in between, and then some some with the blue
stuff in it, and you know, yeah, I don't know.
It's it's a it's an art more than a science.
It is. It's good cheese, bored, it's a it's a
(38:15):
wonderful feeling, right right, Sophie or perhaps Sophia. We weren't
totally positive, but but yes, they wrote, I've been a
long time listener, but this is my second time writing in.
I tend to let episodes of Savor build up so
I can binge the show as I drive to work.
Because of this, I just got to your sangria episode
(38:36):
for our wedding in September. Congratulations. Um My now husband
and I had our signature drink for the weekend be
our homemade sangria. His family is very Portuguese, and one
of our wedding colors was Sangria red. We had a
sangria fountain and everything. I have a false sangria that
I make every year that even people who don't usually
drink sangria always ask for. I typically use Caberne, Sevignon,
(39:00):
well Pie, mcguella, Cuddies, Fiji apple, sparkling water, orange juice,
and apple cider. Then I throw in some sliced up
red apples. I prefer honey crisp, some oranges, cinnamon sticks,
and any other fruit you think would go well in it.
When anyone asks how much of each ingredient I used,
I always answer I measure with my heart. I have
no set measurements. I just keep adding things until it
(39:21):
tastes delicious. Oh that does sound delicious. Oh it sounds
so fall like. Yes, yes, I want to try it.
I too, shall measure with my heart. Yes. Thanks to
both of those listeners are writing in. If you would
(39:42):
like to drive to us, you can. We would love
to hear from you. Our email is Hello at savior
pod dot com. We're also on social media. You can
find us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram at saver pod
and we do hope to hear from you. Sabor is
production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,
you can visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as
(40:02):
always to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard.
Thanks to you for listening, and we hope that lots
more good things are coming your way. H
Savor News
Hosts And Creators
Anney Reese
Lauren Vogelbaum
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