Zinfandel: All We Do Is Zin

This deep red grape, though sometimes misunderstood, helped launch California’s wine industry – and wines made from its relatives are loved across Europe. Anney and Lauren dive into the science and history of zinfandel grapes and wines.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello, and welcome to Savor production of I Heart Radio.
I'm Annie Reese and I'm Lauren vogel Bum and today
we have an episode for you about zinfandel. Yes, yes,
and it is a fun one. It's a dense one.
Oh yeah. Lots of DNA genetic analysis involved. That's that's
always fun. Yeah, historical twists and turns. Um uh. And

(00:33):
as always with our alcohol episodes, drink responsibly. Yes, yes, yes,
yes um. And we should say right off the bat
with this one. This is a sponsored episode, Yes, entirely
sponsored by the wine brand Saldo, who were kind enough
to send us a few of their wears to sample.

(00:55):
And they're heck and delicious um. And you are going
to hear a lot of ads from them for throughout
this episode. Yes you are, some some quizzes trivia always fun. Yeah, yeah,
they were delicious um. And it was nice to be
researching this and kind of have like, now now that

(01:17):
I know all of the history, I'm even more appreciative.
Oh yeah, and I'm really I'm really excited to get
into some different zinfandel like clonal varieties and see what
some of the differences are in the ways that winemakers
are using this grape. Um it is. It is just
wonderfully nerdy. Um one gets this one goes deep. It does,

(01:41):
it does, and I have a whole spiel about it later.
But oh my gosh, yeah yeah, and I and I
and I will say, like, like look like like low
key they are paying us to say this, but but
really like like they seem like such a great brand
to have sponsored this episode because they seem like really
good nerds too, and so that's just just exciting to
be working with with cool people. Yeah, it's nice when

(02:01):
it it meshes in that way. Um, and I will say,
I love a goods infandel, but it's definitely one that
I've long misunderstood and I have only fairly recently gotten into.
So I think that I'm happy to be doing this
one because I just had so many misunderstandings about what

(02:23):
z infandel was. And we're going to talk about some
reasons why that might be in the history section. But
it's just been really nice because I'm like, oh, I
didn't know I zimfandel could be this just so long
had the wrong are not even wrong, but like I
just didn't have a complete context of what Zimdell's were Yeah. Yeah,

(02:44):
I I had sort of the wrong impression of the
grape for a long time, and learning about stuff is cool.
Off it is and people are fans. Yes, oh my goodness. Yes. Uh. Also,
nationals Infindel Day is the third Wednesday of every November,

(03:05):
so that's coming up. We're kind of on on target
for that one, sure, yes, And you can see our
past one episodes. There have been many, including the one
we did on the French wine Blite, which we're not
going to talk too much about in this one, but
is always kind of hanging over these wine episodes, um,
and our New Orleans Drinks episode for a brief mention.

(03:27):
I'm going to talk about that more in the history
bit as well, but we did talk about why some
of those misunderstandings of fandel where they came from. Perhaps
it's kind of interesting, right, um yeah, for more on that.
You can also see our Boxed Wine episode for a
short bit about white zinfandel, which I think definitely brings

(03:51):
us to our question. I agree, zinfandel. What is it? Well,
Zinfandel is the name of a wine grape and also
the name of a wine produced from those grapes. And
maybe a little bit of other grapes in there too,
but mostly zinfandel um. It's a deep red grape so

(04:13):
red its skin is almost black, and will generally be
used to produce a deep red wine that's often spicy
and and warming, um, but also fruity and and bright.
It's like a It's like sidling up to a warm
fire on a crisp fall afternoon, which is one of

(04:35):
my very favorite things right right. It can be a
lot of things though, um okay uh. Wine grapes and
most other grapes for that matter, are all part of
the species Vitis vinifera. Zinfandel is a variety of wine
grape that has evolved and been selected for over time.

(04:57):
The plant is a woody vine that will grow for
like a hundred plus years if you take care of it,
getting gnarlier um all the while. I saw one article
call it like tim Burton near yeah yeah um. And
they grow these a big five lobe leaves. Every spring,
they'll flower with big clusters of super tiny, frankly unimpressive

(05:20):
blooms um that if pollinated, each of those flowers can
develop into a single grape. The clusters are on the
medium to large side of often winged um with little
extra clusters of grapes and pretty compact um. The grapes
themselves are on the large side for wine grapes and
have thin skin that starts out green and we'll ripe

(05:40):
into yes this deep blue black. The grapes ripen relatively
early in the wine harvesting season and can be used
to make right just a bunch of different types of wine. Um.
You can harvest on the early side to produce what's
called whites infindel, which is often blood colored, or you

(06:01):
can harvest it later. I've seen a bunch of different
production methods. I'm not telling you what to do anyway.
Um Uh. You can harvest when they're mature to produce
a more typicals in fandel red and bold, or you
can wait until later in the season when the grapes
are overripe or even raisiny, and use that to create
a strong dessert wine similar to a ruby port. There

(06:22):
are lots of recognized clones. It was infandel Um. Clones
in wine refer to like a recognized sub variety that
growers have identified as having certain traits and that they'll
take cuttings of to graft. To other rootstocks in order
to produce a genetic clone of the original cutting. Nothing

(06:44):
to do with like clone wars, none of that. It's
just sorry. Oh no, now I've got a Star Wars
wine based Oh my gosh, parity that I'm planning. Okay, alright, perfect,
perfect episode only was my intention, you know, how to
get me pretty easily? Um, Cloning Uh, grape grape vines

(07:13):
is like easier and more reliable than growing wine grapes
from seed. It takes seeds a few years to grow
vines of sufficient um size and hardiness to to get
a really good crop of grapes. Um and clones are
generally identified by number um, either by like the number
in which they were um they were researched and published about,

(07:34):
or just like any number that somebody wanted to apply
to them. Going back to Star Wars, I think that
oh maybe it was like a petite Sarah that's like
a seven seventy seven, and that that's a reference to
attack the clones anyway, Nerd nerds stuff, nerd stuff. Um,
I don't have a note on that. I'm saying it
from memory and probably misquoting, but but at any rate, um, yes,

(07:58):
uh of course or the characteristics of any finished wine
depend on a lot of different factors. Um the exact
uh microclimate that it was grown in and the growing
season that it endured, UM, and the way that the
plant was pruned, and the way that it was harvested,
and when it was harvested, and how it was treated

(08:20):
after harvest, and how it was treated during the bottling
and fermentation process. All of this different stuff. But that
being said, um, there are a few like tendencies of
the zinfandel grape. Uh. First, due to the shape of
those clusters, the grapes tend to ripen unevenly in in

(08:41):
any given cluster um, meaning that when you take the
bunch from the vine, there's going to be some that
are underripe, some that are perfect, and some that are overripe.
And that means that um, any given zinfandel usually has
like uh uh a broader breadth of of distinct flavors

(09:04):
in there. Like a lot of young wines taste young,
a lot of older wines taste old, but this one
has a little bit of everything. Yeah. Um. They tend
to be a bit high in alcohol um, and the
burn from that can be pretty forward or it can
be produced to taste more fruit forward one or the other. UM.
And the general flavors include um like red berries and

(09:27):
or cherries, jam, a little bit of smoke, and spices
like black pepper. Yeah, in the United States, all wine
that is labeled infidel maybe up to twenty content from
other grapes um. And speaking of things that you might

(09:48):
see on wine labels, if you've heard of old vine zinfandel,
that is mostly a marketing term because it's not like
a regulated status here in the US. But generally old
vine fers to a wine made from grapes grown on
vines that are old enough to have like peeked and
then plateaued in terms of fruit production, which happens maybe

(10:10):
about like fifty years into the vines lifespan. And the
fruit from old vines is sometimes prized because, um, those
vines like aren't spreading their resources across so many grapes
anymore as they were when they're they're grape production peaked. UM,
so the flavor in the grapes can be more concentrated. Yes,

(10:34):
it's funny you say that. I'm glad you say that,
because again, I was kind of a novice in the
zi infandel world and I saw this old vines infandel
and I was like, why is Why have I never
heard of this before? Who on earth does that mean?
Are these other vines infants? What's happening? Learning something new

(10:55):
every day? Um? Well, what about the nutrition? Drink responsibly?
M Well, we do have some numbers for you, and
I want to start with this because there's a zymposium.
I guess I love. I love all of the puns

(11:16):
around sinfandel. There's so many of them. Um uh yeah,
but right from from what I can tell, the zymposium
is part of the annual Passa Robles Zinfandel weekend every March.
Oh my gosh, listeners again please and let us know. Yes,

(11:37):
as of there were fifty tho acres planted with sim
fandel grapes in California and these range across some forty
counties there, which lie in all five of California's like
climatic wine growing regions, which is so cool. Yeah. Um,
as of adela was the fourth leading wine grape and

(12:00):
it came to acreage in California and of the world,
zinfandel is grown in California. UM. Every year, around three
hundred thousand tons of zinfandel grapes are crushed there and
that's like on a bad year. Since three hundred thousand

(12:20):
tons has been on the low end of crushage, UM,
tons crushed more than doubled in the decade from this
crushage of Lauren Vogel bomb original? Is that a real turm? Um?
I it might be, it might be a mean thing,

(12:41):
or I might have read it somewhere. You never really
know with vocabulary. It's true. Well, I like it nonetheless,
and I do. This association with zinfandel and California is
incredibly strong and people are very passionate about it, um,

(13:01):
and that means that we have a lot in the
history section for you. We do, UM. But first we've
got a quick break for a word from our sponsor
and we're back. Thank you sponsored, Yes, thank you. Okay,

(13:24):
So I think we've said it several times, but grapes
separate episode. Oh yeah, we do not have time to
do the history of grapes today, not today, and I
think we're going to have to split that one up
in multiple episode. Yes. Also, just a shout out to you,

(13:47):
see Davis out of California. Thank you, UM. You overwhelmed
me with your information. But I appreciate it, I respect
it and thank you. Yeah. Yeah, they have published a
bunch of really really really thorough information about the history

(14:08):
of was Infidel, and right, it's wonderful, but also like
academic and if you're a layman like we are, I
was like, well, no, yeah, okay, there was like every
other paragraph. I was like, well, I don't know that
I have time to go into the history of whatever
this term is that they're just using as if I

(14:28):
should know what it is, right, which is no slight
to them because it was for people who are in
that in the industry have been forever. So like, honestly,
just thank you. But I was like reading it getting
increasingly like that like sweat, the kind of sweat emojig bigger.

(14:53):
But I did love it because you could feel the
passion in it. You could feel that people just care
about this so much. But all right, let's dive into
all of this information we have about the Zimpidel. Alright,
So the ancestors of the Zifidel grape trace back to
six AUS and BC, but our modern understanding of the

(15:14):
scrape are are more modern. History of them is fairly
recent by the nineteenth century, grape growers were producing a
grape called the zimpandel or a word close to that
in a couple different places. But yes, continue, Yes, because

(15:36):
of the wines current close association with California, a lot
of research, yes, has been done into how the grape
made its way into that state. But we still aren't
entirely sure of the details. And I say we, I
didn't really have much to do with the research, but
our general understanding of we but here is what we

(15:56):
do know or suspect the Zimpadel grape was probably being
grown for wine in California by the eighteen fifties. Um,
there is no record of a grape by that name
being grown in Europe at the time. In the history
of the name itself, yeah, it's caused a lot of
confusion and consternation. It has historically been spelled all kinds

(16:17):
of ways. It's been called all kinds of things, which
we're going to talk about more in a second. Um.
And obviously, yeah, that that causes some confusion when you're
trying to look into the history of something. Researchers think
the most logical explanation for how the grape got to
California has to do with an amateur horticulturalist uh named

(16:40):
George Gibbs, who might have gotten the grapes and ravines
from Vienna's Imperial nursery and taken them with him or
got them shipped maybe to him to the US in
the eighteen twenties, and records do show that by the
eighteen twenties and thirties, Infidel's being grown as a table

(17:01):
grape in hot houses on the East coast of the
United States. In William Robert Prince's eighteen thirty work A
Treatise on the Vine, he includes what he called black
Zimfandel of Hungary and Hungry. Here was probably referring to
what is now modern day Croatia in his list of
grapes recently introduced to the US from other countries. Uh yeah.

(17:24):
Important to note here that that the Austrian Empire encompassed
what's now also Hungary and Croatia. Sure, yes, and this
theory gained some tractions somewhat recently after a genetic discovery.
We promised genetic discoveries. Yes, uh so. Some of the

(17:46):
confusion around Infidel also stems from the fact that two
other clonal varieties have evolved into other countries over time
alien Croatia that we know of UM. A DNA analysis
published in two thousand three revealed that the California zimfandel,
the Italian primativo, and the creation Tribute drug and I

(18:06):
hope I didn't butcher that UM all have the same
DNA profile, and notably, both the Italian and Croatian name
for this grape likely refers to like early ripening UM.
But that's the etymology of this is so complicated, so
we can't go too deep into it. Yeah. Yes, what

(18:28):
is now Croatia was a part of the Australia Empire
at the time, so when Gibbs would have been collecting
this grape to transport it to America, he very likely
would have gotten it from what is now Croatia. Yeah,
and some of the kicks started this whole interest in
doing the genetic analysis in the first place was the

(18:49):
discovery of ancient zim fidel vines in Croatia, which were
also going to talk about more. Yes, yes, but zimfidel
probably arrived with those traveling to California in the eighteen
fifties for the California gold Rush. Shipping records show that
a lot of zim fandel was sent to the state

(19:10):
in the fifties eighteen fifties. But again this is sort
of complicated because so many different names were used. Um.
And for a while, it was pretty much accepted that
Colonel Augustine Harasti introduced zim fidel to California after returning
from Europe in eighteen sixty one, and this was a
trip he went on specifically to investigate European wine cultivars,

(19:33):
but upon doing some digging, researchers didn't find zim fandel
listed as one of the varieties he returned with. And
on top of that, another viticulturist from the time wrote
that the grape was present in California much earlier than that. Yeah, yeah,
it's very fun to see all these researchers like, no, no,
I've looked into this. It's really great, honestly. Um. Whatever

(20:00):
the case, by the eighteen sixties, Sonoma and Napa in
California had significant vineyards of zinfandel, and the grape was
making a name for itself in wine, especially in that state.
The success of the grape opened the door for other
non French wine grapes in that region too, because at
the time everybody was trying to like copy what French

(20:21):
wine was doing. But because this one was successful and
it wasn't really like French wine, I was like, oh, well,
we could try other things too, maybe other things could
work as well. As early as eighteen seventy nine, professionals
of all types were writing about the grape um and
how it was suited for California, which was a big

(20:42):
deal for the burgeoning wine industry. There um a lot
of people were looking into how they could compete on
the world stage. In terms of California competing on this
wine world stage and specifically going toe to toe with France.
Um organized nations to evaluate wine in California were created,

(21:03):
experiments where done papers were written. A paper written after
one of these experiments suggested that wines made of a
single variety of z infandel grape were inferior, and that
blends were recommended and all these things, Like I'm convincing
so much, because again there is so so much UM,
but that's like a whole paper you can read about

(21:24):
just this one experiment. It's fascinating, it really, honestly is.
So if you have any interest, recommend Um by fours
Infandel accounted for an estimated half of wine grape plantings
in California, and it was so well known there that
someone studying the grape at the time wrote, the variety

(21:47):
is too well known in California to require any remarks
on its general character. If we did an episode that
that's just what we said. It's too well known. I
don't have to say anything else. By seven, these grapes
were going for about fourteen to sixteen dollars per ton,

(22:08):
and that's about half of what well known and respected
French grapes were going forward. So it was like on
the rise. I guess. Charles Wetmore, sometimes called the father
of the California wine industry, once wrote, although Hungarian zifidel
is more known now in America than in Europe, and
it is the beginning of a new type of which

(22:28):
we may be proud. He also wrote in eighty four
that it should be classified as a white wine grape, foreshadowing, Yes,
um it's popularity and it's known hardiness in California ensured
that it was one of the first grapes regrafted onto

(22:50):
new rootstock when the French wine blight did hit that state. Yes,
and I guess, speaking of Um, I don't know. Maybe,
but anyway, Prohibition was obviously not good for zim fandel
in the United States and almost led to it completely
going extinct. Um. It didn't really start to recover in

(23:11):
the US until the nineteen seventies. Yeah. Uh, wine in
general took a took a huge hit during Prohibition. Um.
Perhaps obviously zim fandel seems to have survived specifically because
it is so well suited to California climate that homebrewers
could make decent jug wine from it, like without access

(23:33):
to the usual winemaking equipment. Mm hmmmm um. And kind
of stepping back a bit, there's a lot of threads
in this story. But the University of California Viticultural Department
chair named the zim fandel the most planted and most
well known grape in California in and he recommended that

(23:55):
vineyards in northern California planted as well. And again, it
was the subject of just so many academic papers and
recommendations about how to get the most money given the
acreage required to grow the grape. Just so many things
like here's the best way to go about it? Um.
And clonal research really took off in the nineteen seventies.

(24:19):
But okay, let's look at Italy's premativo great for a second. Okay,
So around the eighteen sixties or somewhere in there, somewhere
around the same time, the zimpadel grape was really taking
hold of California's wine industry. UM. Italy was using a
grape called premativo grown in a similar climate as California

(24:41):
at first, largely to fortify red wine. So it's sort
of a supplementary grape almost UM. Just as people have
tried to get to the bottom of how the scrape
ended up in California, the same is true for Italy.
Some speculate that it arrived from Croatia via the Adriatic
Sea and the eighteenth century, though I did see one

(25:01):
day that was far earlier than that. UM. One of
the reasons this is a popular theory is that legend
has it the grape was originally named after the creation
port it arrived from in Italy. Again, the etymology of
this one is very complicated, but that is one theory. Yeah.
The first known instance of this grape in the written

(25:23):
record is from sevent in Italy. Uh, there's kind of
a humorous story or I found it humorous of a U. S.
D A plant pathologist Dr Austin go Keene visiting Italy
in the nineteen sixties tasting some wine made with the
prematival grape and thinking to himself, huh, tastes like simpandel.

(25:46):
He took some samples of the grape back to the US,
planted them next to simpandel, and a nine genetic analysis, yes,
more DNA stuff confirmed what he suspected that they share
a DNA profile. Um of note, there are varietal differences,
but very very very similar. Yeah, yeah, clonal differences. That

(26:10):
is right there, they're the same variety. They just write
they are genetically the same thing. Um. But but yeah,
clonal varieties can have a little bit of of variance
in there. Sure, and how present which again, if you
want to know more about you see, Davis has got
your back. They had a whole breakdown of it. They

(26:33):
really do. Um. And there has been a lot of
back and forth about labeling around zinfandel and primativo over
the years. In the beer of alcohol, tobacco, and firearms
declared that the names could not be used interchangeably on labels. However,

(26:54):
when presented with DNA evidence, which I love for us
in the nineties, and then in the early two thousands
they revised their decision in they followed the e Use
example and ruled that the names could be used synonymously. UM.
And then they had you know, their call for comments.

(27:17):
What are your thoughts about this decision? You know? Oh,
and people had comments. They have comments, um, mostly Californians
and others in the Americans infandel business, and one way
or another worried that this would adversely impact the California
wine industry, mostly because of confusion. Uh or that's that's

(27:37):
what they said, that they thought it would confuse people. UM.
So taking this into account, the ruling was postponed and
definitely and as of the names cannot be used interchangeably
in the US. Well, if anyone has further information, please
let us have no cool it is And speaking of cool, meanwhile,

(28:05):
interest in the grapes history in Croatia really took off
in the ninety nineties, though plenty have been looking into
it before then. UM researchers at the University of Zagreb,
Croatia joined forces with a cohort in California to dig
into the grape's potential Croatian roots. The country has a
long wine history that goes back to at least two

(28:27):
thousand two b c e UM. The Croatian scientist sent
sample grapes and vines to California for DNA testing, eventually
leading to the genetic analysis that confirmed ancient vines and
Croatia matched the DNA profile of California's zinfandel. Further research
revealed that to grace with different names in Croatia were
also the same, so that leads that also was causing

(28:50):
some confusion. Um. But there's a lot written up about this,
and it's really really cool, and it kind of took
a while of sending grapes back in fourth and doing
these tests before they arrived at this conclusion. So I
really enjoyed it that all all three of these of
these these Croatian, Italian, and Californian grapes are the heck

(29:14):
in same grape. Yeah, um, but just different clonal varieties. UM.
And there has been there have been other historical notes
that have gotten attached to all of this. UM. For example,
one of these Croatian varieties was listed on this Austrian
farming map from eighteen sixty three that was laying out

(29:35):
different wine grapes grown around the region um, which right
strengthens the hypothesis that this grape was common there and
already to be transported to the US UM by at
least that time, that time or earlier. Mm hmm yeah, okay,
So well, all of this, and I'm making a big

(29:58):
all of what we've been talking about was going on
in the US and abroad. Another major shifting her understanding
of zimfandel occurred the introduction of white zinfandel. Yes, yes,
oh oh my, okay, So all of this research was

(30:20):
going on around in infandel in the seventies that indirectly
catapulted the cousin of zim fandel white zimfandel to fame
in the eighties and nineties. And yes, our interviewee and
that New Orleans episode we mentioned at the top, Chris
Warner shared his opinion that Sutter Homes white Zimfandel was

(30:40):
sort of a gateway wine for a lot of people
in the United States. It was a very funny tidbit
I liked. So. According to some sources, Sutter Homes white
Zimfandel was an accident that they created in nineteen seventy two.
The company's winemaker allegedly used runoff from their Zimfandel wines

(31:04):
to make white Zimfandel, and for whatever reason one time
the wine didn't fully ferment and it resulted in a
low alcohol sugary wine as disgusted the dark times. In
our opinion, I guess you could fight with us about that.
Of the sugree eighties meant that the product was very
happily embraced and it's skyrocketed to popularity. However, um, the

(31:32):
first known instance of a blush wine Zimpadel dates back
to eight sixty nine, So I guess this is probably
when it just really took hold public. Yeah, this was
the modern coming of the blush zinfandel. Yes, and it
did paint the public perception of Zimpandel's as a Swedish blush,

(31:54):
low alcohol wine kind of basic was the vibe, I god,
and so the reputation was part. And when I was
saying at the beginning that I didn't understand, I thought
it Zimfidel was this yeah for a long time. Yeah, um,
and it really gained this this perception of being um
a uh, low cost and low quality why um, And

(32:19):
this is why other grapes like mare Low and Cabernet
sort of took over for red wine production in California
in the nineties and early two thousand's. Yes, but there
were still people in California that were passionate about looking
into zimfandel UH, and a lot of research went into

(32:41):
varietals in California and the nineties. You can yes, find
exhaustive detail if you watch Yeah very much in brief. UM.
The nineties is when the American trade group Zinfandel Advocates
and Producers formed in two to be exact and UH.
Every year to this day, they sponsor AI's in Findel

(33:04):
centric wine and food festival in January called zin X,
and in they started up a project with you See
Davis called the Heritage Vineyard Project UM. Its purpose being
to take cuttings from old vines in Findel around California
and select strong ones UM to propagate and make available

(33:26):
to growers. UM. They say it's currently like twenty years
into a hundred year effort to preserve the variety and
let it thrive and replace old vines that won't last forever.
Mm hmm. Yeah. And all of this is part of
what we've talked about before of California's in America's at

(33:48):
large wine industry looking for some recognition, um, looking for
some respects and financial success of course, in a world yeah,
I mean yes, in the world that for so long
has valued European wine above all, like that's that's the best,
that's what you want. And this is something that that

(34:09):
did see a real shift in the two thousands. It
was a real perspective shift in the two thousands of
what California wine, American wine could be in that it
could compete. Um. But it's always it's been there, people
have been working in it. People are passionate about it.
I just don't want to I can't stress enough that

(34:31):
people I love this and they've been looking into it,
and they've been working at it, and I don't want
to erase all of the stuff they've been doing because
right now, yeah, we're seeing a resurgence of it. But
people have been in this, oh yeah, forever, forever, since
since those first like gold Rush vines arrived in California,

(34:53):
people have been really deep into it. And that's beautiful.
It is. It is, and we appreciate it personally on
a podcast researcher level, but also on a wine drinker level. Yeah,
oh both, yeah, sure, absolutely, so this was it was

(35:14):
a really delightful one to look into. Um, and there's
so many offshoots we could further research, but oh yeah,
many potential future episodes or little side quests or whatever
it is that it is. Yeah, yes, yes, But in
the meantime, I think that's what we have to say
about Zinfandel for now. It is. We do have some

(35:36):
listener mail for you, though, but first we've got one
more quick break for a word from our sponsor. And
we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. And we're
back with m sitting next to the fire. Yeah, and

(36:02):
it's so cold, which it is quite cold. Oh yeah,
we just had the weather turn like this morning and
I'm like, oh, I should have brought my plants in. Heck, okay,
that's right. I've been meaning to ask you about your plants,
which I know it was a weird thing to say,
but I do worry the plants. Um. They're currently hanging

(36:23):
out at my neighbor's house, um, where I moved, so
I'm not in my permanent new house yet. I'm standing
in Airbnb for a couple of months, which is really exciting.
But I moved them to a neighbor's house before I
moved in here, and that is where they are. So
I guess I have to go make several trips across
the street after I do this recording. Yes, let us

(36:45):
know how they are. Tell them why oh oh I will,
I haven't. I haven't seen him in like two weeks.
I don't even know. I don't even know. Well, you've
got to keep this updated, that I really do. I
was like, I wonder how her wrong? The auto they've
been they've been watering them for us. I I thank
you so much, dear neighbors for taking care of my

(37:06):
plants in this trying time. It's very very kind. Thank you.
You don't know me, probably not listening, but my thoughts
are very thankful towards you as well. Heck, okay so,
and then continuing messages we've gotten about Dill, which is

(37:27):
so great. We have two more today, Hannah wrote, just
finished listening to the Dill episode, and since still is
arguably my number one favorite HERB, I had to write in.
I really enjoyed hearing about the veried, witchy history of Dill.
It made me especially excited for the little row of
fall dill seedlings. That is popping up in one of

(37:49):
my garden beds, as well as the volunteer dill lets
springing up from under the springs patch. Aside from the
obvious intellectable vegetable pairings cute comber tomatoes, potatoes, carrots, beats,
dill goes great with just about any veggie in my book,
I have a couple other favorite places for that burst
of dill flavor. First, scrambled eggs. Of course I enjoy

(38:14):
a plain scramble or a cheesy one, or even one
with another herb or two. But if I am making
scrambled eggs and don't have a bit of fresh dill around,
I am always just a little sad that these scrambled
eggs won't be quite as good as they could have been.
And secondly, popcorn. I know it's not one I've seen
anywhere except well my house and the place I learned

(38:36):
it from. When I was growing up, a family friend
would often make a big batch of popcorn for parties
at her house. But instead of your classic toppings, she
made it with butter, obviously, lemon, pepper, dill, a touch
of human a little goes a long way, and parmesan.
This is now the only way I make popcorn. I
don't always include the parmesan, but the first three ingredients

(38:57):
are essential. Lemon pepper. I use one with salt for
salt tang, and heat dil for a touch of aromatic sweetness,
and cuman for that bit of earthy funk. It wakes
up the whole palette and I can't get enough. I
hope you will give it a try. Yes, yes, oh.

(39:19):
I responded to this email, and I was like, I'm
in full blown horror movie season. This sounds perfect. I
got popcorn, needs my deal in there and all that.
This sounds so good to me. That does sound so
good that I don't know. I've never thought about putting
lemon pepper on popcorn. I know, I know, I'm ashamed

(39:41):
of us, Lauren, right, I'm kind of like, we're from
Atlanta living. What kind of at aliens? Are we? Not?
The good kind? I guess? And I love popcorn and
I write what is going on with me? And I
put human on everything? How have I never put that
on popcorn either? Anyway? Awesome? Multiple people wrote in about

(40:01):
the eggs still in eggs okay, h m hmm. Bart wrote,
I now absolutely adore dill and buy fresh dill at
every opportunity, at every time of the year, and use
it in cold dishes, hot dishes, mayrinaides, you name it,
but I remember exactly when I decided I want to

(40:21):
try it. It's when Captain Kirk is making breakfast for
his girlfriend in Star Trek Generations and he shouts to
Captain Picard for dill while he's making the eggs. I
made my mom put dill on the shopping list there,
and then added it to my eggs the next weekend
and fell in love. I still use fresh dill in fritatos,
but in summer. My favorite used for dill is in

(40:42):
fennel slaw, cole slap, potato salad, or salmon salad. I
use it to marinade whitefish all year round. It gives
such a lovely freshness with some lemon, garlic and olive oil.
In winter, I love using it in roast vegetable dishes.
It goes really well with roasted cauliflower, red onions, and
bromley apples. Bromley apples I don't know anyway, uh And

(41:02):
similarly with a roasted fennel with shallots and those same apples.
I think my favorite dill roasted vegetable dish is roasted
baby cucumbers with shallots, white wine, vinegar, and dill. For
all the roasted vegetable dishes, the fresh dill goes in
at the very end, after the food is out of
the oven. Just fold it in and give it a
minute to wilt, and it's ready to serve. But I

(41:25):
think my most unusual use for dill is in sugar
free apple sauce, core and peel a nice tart cooking
apple like that, heck and whatever variety that was. Um
cut it into segments, season with salt and black pepper,
and then roast in a medium oven until it goes
to mush. Then take it out of the oven and
mix in an ungodly amount of fresh dill and serve.

(41:46):
The salt will enhance the natural sugars and the apples,
and the dill will make the whole thing wonderfully fresh.
Go super with some grilled chicken or turkey, some nice
Herby sausages, or some great black pudding. My mouth is watering, watering,
literally every single one of those things. Gosh, and I

(42:08):
my heart is very full and warm that you were like,
I got up, But dil in my eggs after watching
starting because of Captain Kirk. Thank you Captain Kirk for
introducing me to dil, which I now use in literally everything.
That's fantastic. That's so cool. I love this, it's all great.

(42:30):
I want to try all of these things. I'm just
gonna put dill and like everything from now on, I'm
getting huh, I'll try it. Why not? Why not? Your
listeners continue to inspire is. Thank you so much for writing.
If you would like to write to us, you can
our emails hello at saber pod dot com. We're also

(42:52):
on social media. You can find us on Twitter, Facebook,
and Instagram at saber pod and we do hope to
hear from you. Sabor is production of My Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit
the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our
superproducers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,
and we hope that lots more good things are coming

(43:12):
your way