November 19, 2025 • 47 mins
Friend of the show and New York City correspondent Joey breaks down Zohran Mamdani's win and what it means.
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The Liberal Wine Moms are Radicalizing:
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you production I hurt radio and today we
are once again so happy to be joined by friend
of the show, friend in real life, Joey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome Joey.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, thanks for having me for once not talking about
Star Wars or ball or anything.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I have a feeling somebody's gonna sneak it in, so
you know, honestly, I.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Do have I do have a small tangent about We'll
get in.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
To that, but yeah, reporting live from Zora and mom
Donnie's New York City. There's uh hammer and circle flags
raised everywhere, riding in the street.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know, I knew it.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's been crazy time to be alive, crazy time.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
To be alive.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
What a time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, you are are our person in New York, and
New York was the focus, I would say, one of
the big focuses of the last the elections we just had.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And they were there, just elections. I had no idea
this totally. Yeah, I sorry to cut you out of Fanny.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I will say, being in New York last week, very
very glad to be in New York City. I had
to feel like where it was going to go, but
it was like that is the the energy, just feeling
like walk here on the stay. I also had a
friend who was visiting from London who I was like
getting drunks that night and it was so funny because
I was like, Oh, there's going to be all of
(01:52):
these watch parties for the election, like we could do that,
or we could just try to finally have a bar.
And he was like, no, I'm kind of curious. Let's
like do the watch party.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't know anythink about politics. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And we were like at a gay bar watching the
election results come in and it was a fun time.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I'm not gonna lie, it was a fun time. Uh
you know, I'm alad because it's nice to have a win.
It was a wind like a lot of election can go.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm just too scared to even try it to go
to a watch party because I might be so depressed.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No real, I'm glad it worked out.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It was so weird because I was like, uh, one
of my really good friends, like their birthday is right
after election, and last year it was the day after
the like Trump was elected, and I just like that
those couple of days were so weird I'll be real, Like,
I went into that election sort of like it could
go fifty to fifty. A lot of people in my
life were very convinced Hayris was gonna win.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm also like I was the friend that was watching
CNN all night and was like texting people updates.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And so I did feel kind of bad because there
were a couple of points where I was like, no,
it looks like it's going really well.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Actually it's fine, and then I was like and then
an hour later it changed.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Anyway, that was a weird time. That was like.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
That was was just such a like jarring experience for so.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Many in so many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Again, I wasn't necessarily surprised, but it was like it
was weird. It was weird, it was jarring, it was heavy,
and it was just like the shift this year.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It was just it was such a different energy.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And yeah, equally, Annie, I I you know, I still
have very distinct memories of the twenty sixty election. And
I was in high school at the time, as I
mentioned on the podcast before, and Samantha's looked horrified, But
I do remember that like walking into a watch party
(03:53):
for that and it just being like silent and like
the energy being so weird, and so that was.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Not the case this time, which was nice. I really
like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I also a shout out quick shout out to a
super producer, Christina, whose birthday is near. Oh my god,
what Yeah, November Christina.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
She's really gone everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
She has told the story.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Of pleated birthday Christina scorpio icon. Let's go right. It
makes so much sense. Lovingly, I love scorpios, but that
that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love that because I never know what that means
when people say it, but I'm I love that people
know it.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It makes me happy. But yeah, she's told stories of.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Being you know, out at a bar for her birthday
and it's just silent because of what happened in the election.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Cannot imagine. I do have a really good friend of
his birthdays January sixth, and I thought that one's a
really funny one because I as soon as she told me,
I was like, well, I'm never going to forget your birthday.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Night was like, but you know, so many fun dates.
I got to my birthday date. It was nothing.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
The one thing that this year was normal, but the
year before it was the weekend that Biden dropped out
of the election and Harris will they announce that Harris
was gonna run, and it like literally I saw a
tweet that was somebody being like, Wow, this is really
taking the attention away from me for my birthday, and
I was like that that was how I felt like.
I was like, I, this is great. I I, you know,
(05:31):
had not felt super great about Biden running either.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
However, it's my birthday. It's supposedly about me.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Why are we talking about this other Joe, Like what's
going on? But yeah, no, Anyways, I do recommend watching
election coverage though, and you know, again, you never know,
it could go for different ways. But watching an election
that went well with somebody who's not from the US
that was sort of like literally support that were showing
(06:02):
on the maps and he was like Red's bad, right,
Like that's that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I had to do with the animals sometimes I'm like, wait,
which one is the which was Wait, donkey.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Suddenly we all know about one county that.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Before all of a sudden, what.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Do pennsylvan I haven't spent too much time thinking about Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
No hate with the people of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
Wasn't, but geography becomes somewhat important.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But yes, I guess up top a couple of things.
First of all, I just want to make a quick
content warning. I am going to talk a little bit
about sexual assault, like sexual harassment. Uh, you know, famously
Andrew Como was running against Doomny for this lecture and
who are again famous for being a sexual predator.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So that is going to going to come up.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We're going to talk a little bit about the Me
Too movement and kind of the long term kind of
effects of that and conversations that are still happening. Not
going to get super explicit, but of course, take care
well listening. I'm also going to get a little bit
into Islamophobia and some of the islamophobic rhetoric that had
been going around. Same with you know, just any sort
(07:26):
of We're going to talk about transphobic.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Rhetoric, all this stuff. Take care well listening.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Not going to get super explicit, not going to get
I'm not going to quote anything anyone was saying as much,
try not too as much as possible, because I don't
want to give a platform to those things. I'm sure
we all know what is being said right now, and
then my other warning at the top.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Every time I.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Talk about electoral politics, especially when it comes to progressive wins,
I have to do my laundry list of disclaimer Points one. Yes,
electoral politics is not the end all be all of
political activism or change or hope for the future or whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I am aware of this.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
However, it is point number two. It is an aspect
of political change. It is like, like you know, it
determines who is going to be in office. It is
and like, yes, it's just one brick in this like
house of progress and house of change, but it is
still a brick. And if you remove that brick, you're
(08:27):
gonna lose a couple of pillars there.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So I do think it's worth talking about. But me
talking about this.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Me celebrating these things, isn't me saying like, and everything's
great and nobody has to pay attention to anything. Ever,
we can have nuance and like listen, also point number three.
So right now, Christine, I'm so sorry You're gonna have
to beat me a lot in this episode. I'm and
also sorry to the listeners that I hate the beatings
(08:52):
out and I'm trying my best, but it is it's
possible to look at the world and be like, wow,
things are bad. All of these bad things are happening,
but also be able to celebrate wins, you know, like
like just because I am like and like, I'll be
real this.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I I felt a lot of hope from this election.
I I it was very like reinvigorating.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I really like maybe remember like, yeah, this is this
stuff is important, This stuff is important to get involved with.
That being said, like, I'm from Chicago and it's been
really weird for the past like a couple of months,
seeing like streets that I grew up in under like
total basically military occupation at this point.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
So it's like, believe me when I say, uh.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It is possible again, Yeah, nuance is possible. We can
celebrate these wins and also still be realistic about the
fact that it's like there's a lot of bad things happening,
and I think there's still a lot of work to
be done.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Exactly when it comes to everything with the elections, no
one loves the system, but right now and we see
a win, a win is a win, dammit, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
When when also I'm like, you know, I like, taking.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Some steps forward is better than just like not doing
anything Like, I don't know. I'm I'm trying not to
argue too much with like an invisible voice in my
head right now that's coming at me and pulling out
all the like leftist Twitter talking points. But but yeah,
I don't know, I'm trying. I think it is okay
to both celebrate things and be excited about things, and like,
(10:28):
I'll be real, I am somebody who like I tend
to kind of be a killed joy with politics. Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
We were just talking about the election last year. Again.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I was kind of the friend being like, I don't know, guys,
I feel like this could go really bad, and you
know what, I was right, but wasn't happy that I.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Was right, but I was right right. But and like
on this note too.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I mean, like something we're seeing right now whatever, there's
like a politician that's like very charismatic and is like,
you know, got this sort of support, which I think
I think is good.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I think we do need that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
But also it's like I'm personally I don't think we
should be like standing politicians. I hate it when people
make like mersh of like like although like Ruth Badergan's
were merge or like like AOC or Bernie or whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Like I'm like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
They're their job is to serve the people. I don't know,
that feels weird to be I don't know. Again, there's
a room for nuance. I could still be excited about this.
I think it is exciting to see like a politician
who is this good of a speaker and this good
at like bringing people together and talking to multiple different
issues and like really creating a coalition. I mean, like, listen,
(11:34):
the Democrats have like loved to talk a lot of
big talk about coalition building and about bringing people in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Uh, And I do think that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I think the way that they've kind of been approaching
it is like, let's just turn this party into like
Republicans light, let's try to get like the Liz Chenese
of the world to jump on our side. And it's like,
I don't think that's what it should be. I think,
like you, if you look at what Zoron did, like
that is that is a genuine like bringing people with
different ideas together, bringing people from different communities together, whatever,
(12:05):
like people kind of I wouldn't have expected to support
a democratic socialist candidate. We're doing that, and I think
that's really great and I think there is something there,
and I think it's worth talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I mean, it's okay to like someone that you voted for,
but then you have to turn around and understand this
is about holding them accountable. So it's not about following blindly.
Is understanding they got me excited with this, and now
let's hold them to it.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
And that's the more responsible way to be a voter.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Exactly because you know what happens. You know what.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Happens when we and I'm not saying this is at
all what's going to happen with Mom Donnie, but I
think when people take the like turning it into like
all of a sort of like the fandomization of politics
too far, you get like cuomo sexual stuff, like that's
what you get, which surprise, surprise, backfire really quickly.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
Real hard.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Anyways, there's a couple of different things I want to
talk about here, particularly pertaining to Donnie's win and what
that means for women, women's issues in politics, and what
I kind of mean by what I'm saying women's issues too. First,
we're gonna we're gonna pull back a little bit. We're
(13:17):
gonna talk about like what the rhetoric on the left
or what is seen as left in this country, the
Democratic Party, whatever big umbrella here that I'm talking about,
but like what the conversation has been for the past
year or since the Democratic Party lost the twenty twenty
four election presidential election, There's been a lot to talk about,
(13:38):
like what were the lessons learned?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
What did we do wrong?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And surprise, surprise, there's just kind of been a lot
of finger pointing and a lot of like jumping to
blame people.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I was thinking about, like how have.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
The Democrats how progressive talked about women's issues over the
past year.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And I do think it's split.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think that there's sort of two and again we're
talking about a very broad coalition of people here, so
this is like political pundance and just like your average
person on the street, which again that's.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
A very large group of people who.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Are talking about lots of different opinions, lots of different
motives whatever. But yeah, I think the response is kind
of been split. I think similar to twenty sixteen, this
loss was like the twenty twenty four presidential loss was
definitely something that bradical lies a lot of people and
drove them to action.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Recently, I was listening to I want to.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Shout out Matt Bertstein's podcast A Bit Fruity, in which
you recently did an episode called the liberal wine Moms
are Radicalizing. I'm blanking on the name of the guest
that he had on, but she was fantastic. She was
sort of like, she's this prominent podcaster's sort of seen
as like the progressive, like middle aged, the suburban wine mom,
(14:53):
and quotes, you know, not necessarily literal, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know what I'm talking about, like that typographic. And
they had a really interesting converse.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'll link that episode in the show notes, but they
had a really interesting conversation about her response to the
election and some of the stuff that she's been seeing.
And I think it was really interesting because it was
sort of counter to a lot of the narratives I've
been seeing, which is coming what like more from the
party side, which is there's been a lot of hand ringing,
a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Of like, oh, we were being we were.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Going too far with these issues, we weren't being cautious enough.
And meanwhile, like if you look at the actual platform
that was being run in twenty twenty four, it was
like the most cautious, like we're not going to push
any boundaries they could have done. You know, there's been
a lot of like, oh, the thing that that didn't
work for us was like the fath them's or Kamala Ford,
(15:42):
thea them or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Meanwhile, the Democratic Party like this was the.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Least that they talked about trans issues like within like
the last three elections, Like this is the first time
the DNC there was not a single trans speaker in
like years, like this has not happened in a very
long time, like.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They they really I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's sort of this weird disconnect where there's been a
lot of like we were having people like Gavin Newsome
now be like actually we should I don't know, transports,
it's a it's complicated, and it's.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like where is this coming from.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You weren't like running on helping trans people really at all.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
People have been loving to go affle after a chapel.
Speaker 8 (16:22):
Roone for not endorsing Kamala Harris and making what I
think was a pretty reasonable point about the fact that
the Democratic Party really hasn't you know, stood up for
the LGBT community as much as they say that they are.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think she was right.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
I think, you know, again, I voted for Harris. I
think people should have voted for Harris. But also it's like, yeah, they.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
There wasn't really a lot that was I don't know,
like there weren't they weren't doing the things that they
were like, see, the thing that was wrong was that
we were being too woke.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And it's like, but but you weren't, Like I don't know,
I think particularly and the one thing that really I
want to focus on here is like trans issues and
how trans issues have been talking about, because like this
has been one of the communities that has been most
kind of sharply attacked by the Trump administration, and at
the same time, the like mainstream Democratic Party has kind
(17:16):
of been pulling away from it has been like yeah,
that's where we were going too far.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And it's again like I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
That to me is confusing because I'm like, you really
weren't doing anything to begin with. I think this election
showed that there is kind of a disconnect between the like,
oh my god, no, people don't like this, people don't
like that we're supporting this. It's like not like at
the end of the day, it's it's not the biggest issue,
Like the biggest issues are the economic issues, because it's
(17:43):
like most people don't really care about like other people's
that our personal lives. Some people do, obviously they're very
loud about it. But yeah, Also I'm I'm under this.
I'm qualifying trans issues as women's issues. Obviously not alternans
people are women, U that's kind of the whole point.
But uh, I think, and I think specifically talking about
(18:06):
I'm gonna try not to go on a huge tantent
about this because I don't want to take up too
much time. But I think, like, especially when we're talking
about like the quote unquote like transport debate, this is
a women's issue because you see how quickly it turns
into like if we're just turning this into like specific
gender roles, you have to like, again, I'm trying very
hard not to go on a tangent about this. I
think it's really weird how quickly like the conversation about
(18:30):
women in men's sports or men and womens sport quote
unquote whatever has shifted over the past ten years, because
like I remember growing up and it being like, yeah,
it's really weird that these sports are gendered, Like it's
more complicated than that if you look at the actual
scientific facts, like.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I don't know, gender actually doesn't play that big of
a role.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And now we've kind of gone around where it's like no, no, no, actually,
like like the turf argument is actually it is feminists
to say no, women are inherently weaker and they can't
do anything. And for some reason, chess is also a
part of this.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We can't have.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Trans women competing against sis women in chess because our
little lady brains are too small apparently. So anyways, all
of that being said, I've said this on other podcasts
before women out there, cis gender women listening. If you
really do not care about trans people, like at least
(19:24):
think a little bit selfishly here, like this is going
to come back and buy you. We're ready seeing the
Olympics just put out a statement being like we're banning
trans women and also like women with like high testosterone levels,
which is so weird, which is such a vague thing.
So it's like it's the Olympics. It's like everybody's you
don't get to that level of athleticism unless there's like
(19:45):
you have some sort of weird physical situation going on.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't know, this seems like a little arbitrary, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Me, the conversation is that they created a boogeyman exactly
an exact narrative because we know by the many trans women,
how many trans athletes have you seen winning those awards?
And the people who are complaining are the people who
are in like fifth or last life, like fifth place
or whatever, like who cares?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Also, I don't ken like if you look at the
actual science, there's actually a lot of evidence it's like
HRT is uh like you're kind of at a disadvantage
if you're taking HRT because of the way that it
affects your body. Like it is sort of like, hey, like,
not only have we created the spoogeyman, were like literally
it's not based on any All of the science they're
chounting isn't real anyways, right, as well as.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
The fact that they're almost given like an opportunity for
really pervy white men to be able to check on
women because you know this like needing to check genders
and bathroom usage.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You know, like this has almost become a ploy.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
That you're trying to use against women to be like
we need to protective people. We need to protect the
young young children here and they're like, but you're using
this in order to physically violate children.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Congratulations, there's this episode.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
A big theme of this episode is we'll get into
with talking about some of stuff with the Quomo campaign. Specifically,
is we have gotten to the point where, yeah, like
protecting women quote unquote doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Apparently that means assaulting women. Shocking. Who would have thought.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Pivoting a little bit to what mom Donni's platform actually
was what he ran on.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And eventually I need you to talk about his wife
because she has become a celebrity in herself.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I was just talking about how I don't think we
should stand politicians, but I am Marama Stan Let's go
she ultimate you know what, it's her art is really cool,
by the way, I totally recommend checking it out. But
talk a little bit about mom Donnie's platform that he
ran on. I went to one of back and forth
about how I wanted to break this down because on
the one hand, I could just yeah, I focus on
(22:07):
like quote unquote women's issues. What's traditionally categorized as women's
issues like access to abortion and health and childcare and
like domestic violence resources, stuff like that. But I don't
think that really gets the whole picture. Really crazy idea
about to throw out here. Nobody's ever said this before,
but I think that all of all systems of injustice
(22:31):
they're connected.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Crazy, nobody's ever said that before. Again.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Uh, but in this sense, economic issues are women's issues
a because women are like participate and are affected by
the economy, whether you want to be or not. And
then be being a woman or being you know, assigned
female birth or whatever that means, you are more likely
to experience poverty across the board, especially.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Elderly women and single moms and trans women.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And so I think, like, yeah, again, if this is
these are issues that are going to disproportionately affect women,
in a sense.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
They are women's issues.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Even though they don't we talk feminism the need for
feminism and why we say when we need feminism is
not just about women.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
What blowing my mind right here?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I got to look into this whole thing you're talking about. Yeah,
so sorry, mom, Daddy ran on this idea of making
New York City and more affordable if you go to
his campaign's like platform page.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Literally the first.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Line is quote New York is too expensive, so are
on will lower costs and make your life easier?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Sounds good to me? It is it is too expensive.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Particularly, some issues that he was focusing on were looking
at freezing rent, building word affordable housing, raising minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
These all again sound great to me.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Is somebody just living in New York City and not
being super wealthy. Also campaigns on free buses and city
run grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So yeah, these obviously.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Don't only affect women, but these definitely affect women. I
know a lot of women whose lives would be way
easier if any or all of these were instituted. But
if we want to look particularly at like what are
traditionally seen a quote unquote women's issues, there's an entire
section on early childhood and education which proposes quote this
(24:27):
is also again from his campaign's website quote free child
care for every New Yorker aged six weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
To five years.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Side note, I really love that they said every New
Yorker aged six weeks. Like the idea of looking at
a six week year old baby and being like that's
a New Yorker, Like just that is like a very
funny image to me. I don't know, I'm picturing like,
I don't know, like old school, like Martin scoresizing a character,
(24:56):
but like a tiny baby.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'm imagining an infant industroller. People to get out the way.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Exactly exactly with like both like accenting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
His campaign also proposes baby baskets for newborns, which would
include quote a collection of essential goods and resources pre
of charge, including items like diapers, baby wipes, nursing pads,
postpartum pads, wattles, and books. Each NYC baby basket will
also include a resource guide of information on the city's
newborn home visiting program, breastfeeding, postpartum depression, and more so
(25:28):
shout out for bringing up postpartum depression.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Just something I don't think we talk about it enough.
But yeah, I again.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Within his platform, highlighting that he wants to make it
easier for new moms, new families to live their lives,
to re enter the workforce with free childcare and education,
all of that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
This is all good in my book, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
There's also a section, an entire section on LGBTQ plus protections,
which again that really stood out to me. Again looking
at the Democratic Party right now and seeing certain people
within the party that are really encouraging people to like
pull back from lgbt issues. The fact that they made
this like a whole section on their page really says
(26:21):
something to me. So it says, quote, the mom Donian
Administration will protect lgbt qia plus New Yorkers by expanding
and protecting gender firming care city wide, making NYC and
LGBTQIA plus Sextuary City, and creating the Office of lgbt
QIA Plus Affairs.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
We're finally going to get a burrow of ge Let's go.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Yes, Gay City is happening.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I want to just throw Miname into the throwing. I
think I would make a great Minister of Day Life
of New York City, just saying anyways, this section also
highlights the fact that guess lgbt QIA plus New Yorkers
are more likely to be affected by economic issues.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
So yeah, a nuance again going back to that issue of.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Women are more affected, particularly queer women, particularly queer people
in general. There is a longer memo on this topic
that points specifically to something that happened earlier this year. Quote,
a private institution operating with a quarter billion dollar public
subsidy should not have the ability to sell out young
trans New Yorkers to the Trump administration. Yet that's exactly
(27:30):
what happened when NYU Didn't Lang Going decided to stop
providing gender affirming care for trans youth. Soon after, other
private NYC hospitals also stopped providing necessary life stating healthcare
for trans youth. These decisions are indirect contradictions with New
York state law. So much terrible stuff has happened this year.
I don't blame you if you missed this story or
(27:50):
if you just like forgot about it. But as they're
saying in this memo, this was a moment I think
that was particularly despicable to me because it again, yeah,
it directly contradicted New York state law. This was back
in February, so this is early on in the Trump administration.
This was kind of an early example of a private
institution caving to the Trump Administration's policies preemptively. I actually
(28:16):
covered a protest when this happened for another show that
I work on called Afterlives shameless plug there please go
listen to that.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And it was.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Like, very it was incredibly moving hearing some of these
kids speak like, I admire their bravery so much.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I was like tearing up during parts of it. It truly,
it was so heartbreaking to hear.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I This was like one of those moments where I think,
like you're seeing in front of you, like the people
that are literally affected by it, and a lot of
times it's kids, and it's like that they shouldn't be
having to shoulder this. Yeah, it's messed up, and it's
messed up that they are suffering because these institutions are
just sort of preemptively caving or Trump. So I think
(29:06):
seeing that that particularly was getting called out in this memo,
that was a good efectomy. I think that is something
that it is like, this is an issue is taking seriously.
He is really committed to protecting gender affirming care, combating some.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Of these very vague.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Order executive orders and court rulings and whatever from the
Trump administration and saying like, no, New York is a sanctuary.
New York is a very gay city. New York is
a very queer city. Stonewall happened here, Like we're not letting.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Go of that. So yeah, all of those issues.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Combined, I would say I'm looking at this and my
brain is like, sounds like this is a pretty feminist candidate.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Sounds like he.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Treats women and queer people and people that aren't sis
gender and everybody in between and whatever. It seems like
he he respects them as human beings. Like to see
that from a candidate kind of hard to find these days.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But that brings me.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
To a question which I brought this up before we
started recording, which I'm kind of curious to hear your
thoughts on. Obviously, another aspect of this election, and particularly
in the last couple of weeks, weeks leading off to it,
there was a lot of Islamophobic fear mongering, and there
was a lot of the kind of assertions that I've
heard throughout my entire life as somebody who was two
(30:31):
years old when nine to eleven happened, and you know,
grew up in the aftermath of all that, which is
this idea that Islam is particularly brutal to women, and
you know, we need to protect white women, I mean
just women, but they mean white women from this kind
(30:51):
of scary boogeyman of Islam. There was a lot of
fear mongering about like he's gonna in state Sharia law.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I have seen the like Shakira law uh meme going
around so many times with just people putting the gift
of Shakira dancing, and.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I do love that. But uh yeah, like they're there.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Which again shocking that the right is contradicting itself. This
is also then they're saying like, uh sharia law.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And then they're also like and he's.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
A far left radical and he's gonna bring Stalinism, maoism,
evil godless kami, Like what what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Anyways, they don't need it to make sense.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But my question is does this sort of fear mongering
strategy does it still work? Does this fear mongering on
ISLM still work in twenty twenty five, I would say
yes and no. I think again, we're also looking at
New York City. We're not looking at the whole country,
so it is a different story. But I was curious
as to you, I guess, from two non New Yorkers,
what were your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Aye and Samantha.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
You know, I'm not gonna lie because I didn't know.
I knew he was not white, that part was obvious.
I didn't know much about his background. I just saw
political takes and how much white people really.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
I didn't like him, and.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
There's also I will really quick, I've had it, And
there's also is some.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I uh.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
There was some sort of fear mongering around particularly the.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Israel and the.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Fact which interestingly he he has not said anything.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Like yeah, particularly bad about Israel.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think he had shown up in support of, like
like protesting the genocide that's happening now, right, and that
was getting turned into into like the news cycle and like,
oh my god, he hates the Jews and he thinks that.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Israel is we should destroy Israel, and it was like,
I don't think he said that ever.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, anti Semitic, and somehow also translated into like does
he have funds that is going to places I don't.
I'm gonna don't understand his threat in that specific conversation.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
Other than influence, I guess.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Because there was really funny.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
It was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah was out wait who oh the general thrashed out
after the results and I was like, yeah, I'm confused.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'll be so real.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I did not know who Dever Messang was, but she
from another podcast that I was listening to her that was
like going into djil about the whole situation that was like, oh, yeah,
this makes sense, washed up after grifter fit got it.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Uh her flip her red pill like turn.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It is like should be studied to be honest, but
it's terf.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It's like terf ideology and it is like Zionism. That
are the two things that like really get people like
it is.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
There's a whole other conversation and were going to a
whole episode about that at some point. But there was a.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Very funny moment in the one of the debates leading
up to the prime where it was the Democratic nominees,
where they asked the question was basically like, hey, if
you when you become mayor of New York City, where
it's the first place you're going to go, And everybody
down the line said tel Aviv And then they get
to Zoron and he was like I'm staying in New York,
like this is the city I'm supposed to be running,
(34:18):
which I was like, yeah, why are you doing there?
Our current mayor literally got indicted for like taking bribes
from Turkey, Like I don't want to hear what other
countries they're going to, Like how are you going to
fix the problems?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Which I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
He had a very funny, very I think like professional
to say response where he basically was like, yeah, no,
like this is a we're talking about local issues.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We should be talking about local issues.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm saying in New York, I'm fixing the problems here,
which I was like, yeah, Like that's what I want
to hear.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
All right, that makes the most sense. You're the mayor, right.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I felt like this election specifically, it was gonna be
a litmus test to a lot in the country, like
whether or not I understood everything about him. Like I said,
I thought he was from an Indian background and his
family Clindage is but then he's from his He was
(35:22):
so like, all of those things are separate in these conversations.
So I was kind of just confused about this fear
mongering about that specifically. I'm like, is this because he's brown?
And again I don't know anything about how religion none
of that. I was like, are we back to just
racially profiling based on literal skin color? Like I'm like,
(35:42):
not understanding the background. So for me, all of that
was odd. But watching this election knowing that this would
be a catalyst to what is happening around the country
because it's kind of like New York. Maybe New York
City may be the more extreme, but it needs to
be the more extreme, so we could have change everywhere
(36:02):
else where we don't.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
We will have a middle ground.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
And so that middle ground comes from what does the
extremists areas have And I don't mean they're extrememists. I'm
just saying, like in literal like it seems more to
the right to the left of somewhere, so exactly, so
like in that level, like what does has look like
for the rest of the country. If we see this
as a people group, we know that there is hope
(36:28):
and seeing that local elections are so important that it
does once again help to kind of predict what is
the next leading So.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
That's how I saw it. Any, I don't, I don't.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Okay, so nothing is one part.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
I don't think I answered that, pot.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I I'll I've been actually an inter interjact really quick.
I think to what you were saying. Something I think
was really interesting was like there obviously there was kind
of the underlying asamophobia. There was and like you said,
this was an election in New York City. It's the
biggest city in the United States. It is a local election,
but also it is kind of a Linimus test for
the Democratic Party. It does sort of like set the
tone for what the Democratic Party is when to be there.
(37:09):
When we saw the primary, there was a lot chatter
from you know, within the Democratic Party of.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Like, oh my god, whoa what does this mean?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
We're gonna actually have to adjust our platform to issues
that people care about what? But there was Yeah, so
there was some early is obviously from like the right
and from Trump that was very loud because everybody was
paying attention to this election at the same time.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I think, like looking.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Particularly at the month leading up to the election, the
Cuomo campaign like doubled down to that as well, Like
it was sort of like a hail Mary, Like there
were he released some really terrible statements being like, oh, yeah,
he would like cheer on an under nine to eleven
if it happened, like terrible insane thing to say. Yeah,
(37:57):
Like there was a point where you could tell like
the campaign was sort of like, you know what, final hour,
Let's see if this works, and it didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I think that is worth looking at. But it still
was attacked at big try, so it is sort of like, yeah, again,
it's it's on the one hand, it is like we
still I'm shocking that America is still racist.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Who would have thought?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
But also I think there is a question of, like,
it's not going to be as effective as it was.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I think that there is like more pushback to that.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
That feels good to me, that feels like we're headed
in a good direction.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But yes, okay, so related. I I knew I knew
what was going on in the New York collection, but
I only kind of knew the I like the basics,
and then SNL did a sketch on it, and it
was I was reading the comments and I was like, oh,
(38:56):
New Yorkers, you guys are so funny.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So but I would say that in my.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
What I encountered about the kind of Islamophobia regards in
regards to women issue with this, I've I mean, I
always thought and still think that that's just a let's
here's the blame. Here's just really scary, we actually don't
care about women. I've always thought that, but I think
in this case that in so many rights have just
(39:33):
gotten pushed back, and I don't even think people cared
about that I think they just cared he was Muslim
and didn't have to go a step.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Further right, Like it's almost sort of.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Like the right is so mask off at this point
that they don't even have to pretend to care about women,
because again, like what you're saying, I always was kind
of just a grift. It was a like pretending to
carer meanwhile, where we don't want women to vote. But
like I think I kind of agree with you where
I think like there was so much fear mongering among
around the fact that he was Muslim, that he uh
(40:07):
was a like brown man running for office.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Uh, But.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I wasn't like there was Yeah, again like when people
say sharia law, we know they're they're we know what
they're talking about. They are like kind of pulling back
to like Taliban images. But at the same time, there
wasn't as much like direct like like I wasn't I think,
like the rhetoric that I remember hearing growing up a
lot around like the war in Afghanistan and the war
(40:35):
in Iraq and like quote unquote why we were there
and we were there to like liberate.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Women from the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I wasn't hearing as much of like that rhetoric, which again,
I I.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
That is bullshit.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I'm wanna say that's bull because these are the same
people that again now don't want women to have the
right to vote.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
But yeah, Like I think.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
It is interesting that we have gotten so far, like
the right has gone so far that they like can't
even tend to care about that anymore, which I think
ultimately ends up kind of being a good thing because then, yeah,
you're gonna have less like centrist center left feminists that
are going to kind of get conned into thinking this way,
which yeah, like it's I guess, I guess maybe it's
(41:18):
good that they're just going full crazy fascist at this point.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of nice to know who your
enemy is. Yeah, But I do find it interesting because
if as it was supposed to be, and as we
understand it, that there's a separation of church and state,
and that's how I believe like politicians should be, and
he's kind of in that level of like, oh, yeah,
we trust that he's going to understand, like not that
(41:45):
there's anything being wrong with Muslim but that's just not
a factor unless that's what your stance is on.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
As we see with Christian nationalism, you.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Know exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I mean, at the end of the day, I look,
there's politicians that I respect that I'm like, I know
that there they don't have the same beliefs as me,
whether they're Christian or Muslim or whatever, and like I
also understand, like I don't know. Yeah, Like for me,
I never was a concern that I was.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Like, I'm more concerned if that is a stance that
you're putting your your like political views on. If you're
sitting here and saying, I believe God is the foremost
so therefore everything in law should be based on my
beliefs in God as we are seeing.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
In Like, I think there's also something to be said
about the fact that again Like he made queer rights
a tenth pole of his campaign. He the weekend before
Halloween weekend, he was out at a bunch of gay
bars campaigning. I am so mad that I decided to
say it that Saturday, because of course, it was like
(42:51):
the first day in a while that I was like, oh,
I'm really tired.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I went out two nights and well it was Halloween
week Like, so I'm gonna arrest I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Be responsible and then of course Zarn Mam Dannie is
out at a bunch of bars, like not far from
where I live. So I was like, cool, it's fine whatever,
But like it was sort of.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Like the.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, we've gotten a point where I think people are
willing to or people are able.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
At least some people. Again, we're talking about New York City.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I don't know how much this is like a nationwide ye,
but they're like there's more acknowledgment of the fact that
it's like, you can be a progressive Muslim the same
way like I my background as I grew up. One
of my parents is Jewish, one of parents is Catholic.
I know plenty of people that are progressive Jews, that
are progressive Christians that like have no problem with gay
(43:44):
people or going out to the club, or premarital sex
or whatever kind of abortion, et cetera. Stuff that you know,
weird culture war stuff. Now I think that there has
been a little bit more space to be like, yeah,
there's nothing that makes Islam.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Really any different in that regard.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
I know plenty of people that are I think, like
they grew up Muslim, they're failing or they're kind of
added towards towards Islam or very similar to my attitude
towards Judaism, where I'm like, it's part of my identity,
it's part of my upbringing, it's part of my values.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
But like, I'm not particularly religious.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
I'm not gonna like judge people because they don't follow
all these rules or whatever. I don't follow any all
of those rules, Like I don't know. I only keep
kosher when I don't want to eat something, and it
gives me an easy excuse.
Speaker 9 (44:34):
So UH.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Got brunch.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Last time we saw each other in person, I was like, yeah,
I'm not eating bacon because I don't like pork, and
I just tell people that I keep kosher or whatever
I'm asked if I want pork products, even though I
will eat a cheeseburger without a second thought. But but yeah, anyway, Yeah,
it was sort of like the To me, this was
(45:05):
kind of the the like grasping at straws. Yeah, it
was the accumulation of like the hypocrisy of all this
where it's like, yeah, you can't really point to the
dude out at mood Ring at two am and be like, yeah,
I think this guy uh wants everybody to wear burkas
(45:26):
and women and men can't look at each other. I
don't know, like all of the weird fear monk, which
again is it also exists in every religion.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
But yeah, this is kind of a terrorist nation with
Christian nationalism, Like several countries have put warnings on this
country for that, so I can't.
Speaker 6 (45:42):
Say that out loud. Samantha is different, you know, religion.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Sorry, So listeners, it happened again. Joey and I we
get to go in.
Speaker 9 (45:57):
Samantha's personally, Oh my goodness, and we just got to
talking and there's so much to discuss, and so we
did break this conversation up into two parts again unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
So again you're getting an outro from me and not
from Joey. But you can find Joey on social media
platforms at pat not Pratt, and also on shows like
Afterlives or there are no girls on the Internet with
friend of the show bridget Time.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So yes, go check.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Those things out and be shorted to come back for
part two because this is a wide ranging conversation.
Speaker 6 (46:44):
Even sex and the city.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
I mean, come on, I was not anticipating that. That
was honestly a surprise, So yes, come back for that
and If you would like to email us, you can.
Our email is hello at Stuffannever Told You dot com.
You can is on Blue Sky at mol Stuff podcasts,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube. We have some new merchandise dot
(47:06):
com hero and we have a book you can get
where to get your books. Thanks as always too, our
super produced Christina, our exective prusin Maya, and a contrictor Joey.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Thank you he was here for this one.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
And thanks to you for listening Stuff and Every Child
Inspection by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
For more podcasts or my Heart Radio.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
You can check out the art radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or where you listen to your favorite show
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome stuff. I
never told you production I hurt radio and today we
are once again so happy to be joined by friend
of the show, friend in real life, Joey.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Welcome Joey.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Hello, thanks for having me for once not talking about
Star Wars or ball or anything.
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I have a feeling somebody's gonna sneak it in, so
you know, honestly, I.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Do have I do have a small tangent about We'll
get in.
Speaker 5 (00:43):
To that, but yeah, reporting live from Zora and mom
Donnie's New York City. There's uh hammer and circle flags
raised everywhere, riding in the street.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
You know, I knew it.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
It's been crazy time to be alive, crazy time.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
To be alive.
Speaker 6 (01:05):
What a time to be alive.
Speaker 1 (01:07):
Well, you are are our person in New York, and
New York was the focus, I would say, one of
the big focuses of the last the elections we just had.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
And they were there, just elections. I had no idea
this totally. Yeah, I sorry to cut you out of Fanny.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I will say, being in New York last week, very
very glad to be in New York City. I had
to feel like where it was going to go, but
it was like that is the the energy, just feeling
like walk here on the stay. I also had a
friend who was visiting from London who I was like
getting drunks that night and it was so funny because
I was like, Oh, there's going to be all of
(01:52):
these watch parties for the election, like we could do that,
or we could just try to finally have a bar.
And he was like, no, I'm kind of curious. Let's
like do the watch party.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
I don't know anythink about politics. Let's go.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
And we were like at a gay bar watching the
election results come in and it was a fun time.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
I'm not gonna lie, it was a fun time. Uh
you know, I'm alad because it's nice to have a win.
It was a wind like a lot of election can go.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
I'm just too scared to even try it to go
to a watch party because I might be so depressed.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
No real, I'm glad it worked out.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
It was so weird because I was like, uh, one
of my really good friends, like their birthday is right
after election, and last year it was the day after
the like Trump was elected, and I just like that
those couple of days were so weird I'll be real, Like,
I went into that election sort of like it could
go fifty to fifty. A lot of people in my
life were very convinced Hayris was gonna win.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
I was like, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
I'm also like I was the friend that was watching
CNN all night and was like texting people updates.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And so I did feel kind of bad because there
were a couple of points where I was like, no,
it looks like it's going really well.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Actually it's fine, and then I was like and then
an hour later it changed.
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Anyway, that was a weird time. That was like.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
That was was just such a like jarring experience for so.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Many in so many ways.
Speaker 3 (03:22):
Again, I wasn't necessarily surprised, but it was like it
was weird. It was weird, it was jarring, it was heavy,
and it was just like the shift this year.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
It was just it was such a different energy.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And yeah, equally, Annie, I I you know, I still
have very distinct memories of the twenty sixty election. And
I was in high school at the time, as I
mentioned on the podcast before, and Samantha's looked horrified, But
I do remember that like walking into a watch party
(03:53):
for that and it just being like silent and like
the energy being so weird, and so that was.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Not the case this time, which was nice. I really
like that. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
I also a shout out quick shout out to a
super producer, Christina, whose birthday is near. Oh my god,
what Yeah, November Christina.
Speaker 6 (04:17):
She's really gone everywhere.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
She has told the story.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Of pleated birthday Christina scorpio icon. Let's go right. It
makes so much sense. Lovingly, I love scorpios, but that
that makes so much sense.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
I love that because I never know what that means
when people say it, but I'm I love that people
know it.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
It makes me happy. But yeah, she's told stories of.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Being you know, out at a bar for her birthday
and it's just silent because of what happened in the election.
Speaker 6 (04:46):
Yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Cannot imagine. I do have a really good friend of
his birthdays January sixth, and I thought that one's a
really funny one because I as soon as she told me,
I was like, well, I'm never going to forget your birthday.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
Night was like, but you know, so many fun dates.
I got to my birthday date. It was nothing.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
The one thing that this year was normal, but the
year before it was the weekend that Biden dropped out
of the election and Harris will they announce that Harris
was gonna run, and it like literally I saw a
tweet that was somebody being like, Wow, this is really
taking the attention away from me for my birthday, and
I was like that that was how I felt like.
I was like, I, this is great. I I, you know,
(05:31):
had not felt super great about Biden running either.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
However, it's my birthday. It's supposedly about me.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Why are we talking about this other Joe, Like what's
going on? But yeah, no, Anyways, I do recommend watching
election coverage though, and you know, again, you never know,
it could go for different ways. But watching an election
that went well with somebody who's not from the US
that was sort of like literally support that were showing
(06:02):
on the maps and he was like Red's bad, right,
Like that's that.
Speaker 4 (06:07):
I had to do with the animals sometimes I'm like, wait,
which one is the which was Wait, donkey.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
Suddenly we all know about one county that.
Speaker 6 (06:19):
Before all of a sudden, what.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Do pennsylvan I haven't spent too much time thinking about Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
No hate with the people of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
Wasn't, but geography becomes somewhat important.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
But yes, I guess up top a couple of things.
First of all, I just want to make a quick
content warning. I am going to talk a little bit
about sexual assault, like sexual harassment. Uh, you know, famously
Andrew Como was running against Doomny for this lecture and
who are again famous for being a sexual predator.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So that is going to going to come up.
Speaker 3 (07:06):
We're going to talk a little bit about the Me
Too movement and kind of the long term kind of
effects of that and conversations that are still happening. Not
going to get super explicit, but of course, take care
well listening. I'm also going to get a little bit
into Islamophobia and some of the islamophobic rhetoric that had
been going around. Same with you know, just any sort
(07:26):
of We're going to talk about transphobic.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
Rhetoric, all this stuff. Take care well listening.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
Not going to get super explicit, not going to get
I'm not going to quote anything anyone was saying as much,
try not too as much as possible, because I don't
want to give a platform to those things. I'm sure
we all know what is being said right now, and
then my other warning at the top.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Every time I.
Speaker 3 (07:48):
Talk about electoral politics, especially when it comes to progressive wins,
I have to do my laundry list of disclaimer Points one. Yes,
electoral politics is not the end all be all of
political activism or change or hope for the future or whatever.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I am aware of this.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
However, it is point number two. It is an aspect
of political change. It is like, like you know, it
determines who is going to be in office. It is
and like, yes, it's just one brick in this like
house of progress and house of change, but it is
still a brick. And if you remove that brick, you're
(08:27):
gonna lose a couple of pillars there.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
So I do think it's worth talking about. But me
talking about this.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Me celebrating these things, isn't me saying like, and everything's
great and nobody has to pay attention to anything. Ever,
we can have nuance and like listen, also point number three.
So right now, Christine, I'm so sorry You're gonna have
to beat me a lot in this episode. I'm and
also sorry to the listeners that I hate the beatings
(08:52):
out and I'm trying my best, but it is it's
possible to look at the world and be like, wow,
things are bad. All of these bad things are happening,
but also be able to celebrate wins, you know, like
like just because I am like and like, I'll be
real this.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
I I felt a lot of hope from this election.
I I it was very like reinvigorating.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
I really like maybe remember like, yeah, this is this
stuff is important, This stuff is important to get involved with.
That being said, like, I'm from Chicago and it's been
really weird for the past like a couple of months,
seeing like streets that I grew up in under like
total basically military occupation at this point.
Speaker 7 (09:31):
So it's like, believe me when I say, uh.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
It is possible again, Yeah, nuance is possible. We can
celebrate these wins and also still be realistic about the
fact that it's like there's a lot of bad things happening,
and I think there's still a lot of work to
be done.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Exactly when it comes to everything with the elections, no
one loves the system, but right now and we see
a win, a win is a win, dammit, exactly.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
When when also I'm like, you know, I like, taking.
Speaker 3 (10:04):
Some steps forward is better than just like not doing
anything Like, I don't know. I'm I'm trying not to
argue too much with like an invisible voice in my
head right now that's coming at me and pulling out
all the like leftist Twitter talking points. But but yeah,
I don't know, I'm trying. I think it is okay
to both celebrate things and be excited about things, and like,
(10:28):
I'll be real, I am somebody who like I tend
to kind of be a killed joy with politics. Uh.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
We were just talking about the election last year. Again.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
I was kind of the friend being like, I don't know, guys,
I feel like this could go really bad, and you
know what, I was right, but wasn't happy that I.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Was right, but I was right right. But and like
on this note too.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
I mean, like something we're seeing right now whatever, there's
like a politician that's like very charismatic and is like,
you know, got this sort of support, which I think
I think is good.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
I think we do need that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
But also it's like I'm personally I don't think we
should be like standing politicians. I hate it when people
make like mersh of like like although like Ruth Badergan's
were merge or like like AOC or Bernie or whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Like I'm like, that's it.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
They're their job is to serve the people. I don't know,
that feels weird to be I don't know. Again, there's
a room for nuance. I could still be excited about this.
I think it is exciting to see like a politician
who is this good of a speaker and this good
at like bringing people together and talking to multiple different
issues and like really creating a coalition. I mean, like, listen,
(11:34):
the Democrats have like loved to talk a lot of
big talk about coalition building and about bringing people in.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Uh, And I do think that's a good idea.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
I think the way that they've kind of been approaching
it is like, let's just turn this party into like
Republicans light, let's try to get like the Liz Chenese
of the world to jump on our side. And it's like,
I don't think that's what it should be. I think,
like you, if you look at what Zoron did, like
that is that is a genuine like bringing people with
different ideas together, bringing people from different communities together, whatever,
(12:05):
like people kind of I wouldn't have expected to support
a democratic socialist candidate. We're doing that, and I think
that's really great and I think there is something there,
and I think it's worth talking about.
Speaker 4 (12:16):
I mean, it's okay to like someone that you voted for,
but then you have to turn around and understand this
is about holding them accountable. So it's not about following blindly.
Is understanding they got me excited with this, and now
let's hold them to it.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
And that's the more responsible way to be a voter.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
Exactly because you know what happens. You know what.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Happens when we and I'm not saying this is at
all what's going to happen with Mom Donnie, but I
think when people take the like turning it into like
all of a sort of like the fandomization of politics
too far, you get like cuomo sexual stuff, like that's
what you get, which surprise, surprise, backfire really quickly.
Speaker 6 (12:53):
Real hard.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
Anyways, there's a couple of different things I want to
talk about here, particularly pertaining to Donnie's win and what
that means for women, women's issues in politics, and what
I kind of mean by what I'm saying women's issues too. First,
we're gonna we're gonna pull back a little bit. We're
(13:17):
gonna talk about like what the rhetoric on the left
or what is seen as left in this country, the
Democratic Party, whatever big umbrella here that I'm talking about,
but like what the conversation has been for the past
year or since the Democratic Party lost the twenty twenty
four election presidential election, There's been a lot to talk about,
(13:38):
like what were the lessons learned?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
What did we do wrong?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
And surprise, surprise, there's just kind of been a lot
of finger pointing and a lot of like jumping to
blame people.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I was thinking about, like how have.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
The Democrats how progressive talked about women's issues over the
past year.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
And I do think it's split.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
I think that there's sort of two and again we're
talking about a very broad coalition of people here, so
this is like political pundance and just like your average
person on the street, which again that's.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
A very large group of people who.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Are talking about lots of different opinions, lots of different
motives whatever. But yeah, I think the response is kind
of been split. I think similar to twenty sixteen, this
loss was like the twenty twenty four presidential loss was
definitely something that bradical lies a lot of people and
drove them to action.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Recently, I was listening to I want to.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Shout out Matt Bertstein's podcast A Bit Fruity, in which
you recently did an episode called the liberal wine Moms
are Radicalizing. I'm blanking on the name of the guest
that he had on, but she was fantastic. She was
sort of like, she's this prominent podcaster's sort of seen
as like the progressive, like middle aged, the suburban wine mom,
(14:53):
and quotes, you know, not necessarily literal, but.
Speaker 2 (14:56):
You know what I'm talking about, like that typographic. And
they had a really interesting converse.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
I'll link that episode in the show notes, but they
had a really interesting conversation about her response to the
election and some of the stuff that she's been seeing.
And I think it was really interesting because it was
sort of counter to a lot of the narratives I've
been seeing, which is coming what like more from the
party side, which is there's been a lot of hand ringing,
a lot.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Of like, oh, we were being we were.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
Going too far with these issues, we weren't being cautious enough.
And meanwhile, like if you look at the actual platform
that was being run in twenty twenty four, it was
like the most cautious, like we're not going to push
any boundaries they could have done. You know, there's been
a lot of like, oh, the thing that that didn't
work for us was like the fath them's or Kamala Ford,
(15:42):
thea them or whatever.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
Meanwhile, the Democratic Party like this was the.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Least that they talked about trans issues like within like
the last three elections, Like this is the first time
the DNC there was not a single trans speaker in
like years, like this has not happened in a very
long time, like.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
They they really I don't know.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
It's sort of this weird disconnect where there's been a
lot of like we were having people like Gavin Newsome
now be like actually we should I don't know, transports,
it's a it's complicated, and it's.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Like where is this coming from.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You weren't like running on helping trans people really at all.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
People have been loving to go affle after a chapel.
Speaker 8 (16:22):
Roone for not endorsing Kamala Harris and making what I
think was a pretty reasonable point about the fact that
the Democratic Party really hasn't you know, stood up for
the LGBT community as much as they say that they are.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
I think she was right.
Speaker 8 (16:36):
I think, you know, again, I voted for Harris. I
think people should have voted for Harris. But also it's like, yeah, they.
Speaker 7 (16:43):
There wasn't really a lot that was I don't know,
like there weren't they weren't doing the things that they
were like, see, the thing that was wrong was that
we were being too woke.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
And it's like, but but you weren't, Like I don't know,
I think particularly and the one thing that really I
want to focus on here is like trans issues and
how trans issues have been talking about, because like this
has been one of the communities that has been most
kind of sharply attacked by the Trump administration, and at
the same time, the like mainstream Democratic Party has kind
(17:16):
of been pulling away from it has been like yeah,
that's where we were going too far.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
And it's again like I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
That to me is confusing because I'm like, you really
weren't doing anything to begin with. I think this election
showed that there is kind of a disconnect between the like,
oh my god, no, people don't like this, people don't
like that we're supporting this. It's like not like at
the end of the day, it's it's not the biggest issue,
Like the biggest issues are the economic issues, because it's
(17:43):
like most people don't really care about like other people's
that our personal lives. Some people do, obviously they're very
loud about it. But yeah, Also I'm I'm under this.
I'm qualifying trans issues as women's issues. Obviously not alternans
people are women, U that's kind of the whole point.
But uh, I think, and I think specifically talking about
(18:06):
I'm gonna try not to go on a huge tantent
about this because I don't want to take up too
much time. But I think, like, especially when we're talking
about like the quote unquote like transport debate, this is
a women's issue because you see how quickly it turns
into like if we're just turning this into like specific
gender roles, you have to like, again, I'm trying very
hard not to go on a tangent about this. I
think it's really weird how quickly like the conversation about
(18:30):
women in men's sports or men and womens sport quote
unquote whatever has shifted over the past ten years, because
like I remember growing up and it being like, yeah,
it's really weird that these sports are gendered, Like it's
more complicated than that if you look at the actual
scientific facts, like.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I don't know, gender actually doesn't play that big of
a role.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
And now we've kind of gone around where it's like no, no, no, actually,
like like the turf argument is actually it is feminists
to say no, women are inherently weaker and they can't
do anything. And for some reason, chess is also a
part of this.
Speaker 2 (19:01):
We can't have.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
Trans women competing against sis women in chess because our
little lady brains are too small apparently. So anyways, all
of that being said, I've said this on other podcasts
before women out there, cis gender women listening. If you
really do not care about trans people, like at least
(19:24):
think a little bit selfishly here, like this is going
to come back and buy you. We're ready seeing the
Olympics just put out a statement being like we're banning
trans women and also like women with like high testosterone levels,
which is so weird, which is such a vague thing.
So it's like it's the Olympics. It's like everybody's you
don't get to that level of athleticism unless there's like
(19:45):
you have some sort of weird physical situation going on.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
I don't know, this seems like a little arbitrary, but yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:52):
Me, the conversation is that they created a boogeyman exactly
an exact narrative because we know by the many trans women,
how many trans athletes have you seen winning those awards?
And the people who are complaining are the people who
are in like fifth or last life, like fifth place
or whatever, like who cares?
Speaker 3 (20:14):
Also, I don't ken like if you look at the
actual science, there's actually a lot of evidence it's like
HRT is uh like you're kind of at a disadvantage
if you're taking HRT because of the way that it
affects your body. Like it is sort of like, hey, like,
not only have we created the spoogeyman, were like literally
it's not based on any All of the science they're
chounting isn't real anyways, right, as well as.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
The fact that they're almost given like an opportunity for
really pervy white men to be able to check on
women because you know this like needing to check genders
and bathroom usage.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
You know, like this has almost become a ploy.
Speaker 4 (20:50):
That you're trying to use against women to be like
we need to protective people. We need to protect the
young young children here and they're like, but you're using
this in order to physically violate children.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Congratulations, there's this episode.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
A big theme of this episode is we'll get into
with talking about some of stuff with the Quomo campaign. Specifically,
is we have gotten to the point where, yeah, like
protecting women quote unquote doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Apparently that means assaulting women. Shocking. Who would have thought.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Pivoting a little bit to what mom Donni's platform actually
was what he ran on.
Speaker 4 (21:37):
And eventually I need you to talk about his wife
because she has become a celebrity in herself.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Don't worry, don't worry.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
You know what.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
I was just talking about how I don't think we
should stand politicians, but I am Marama Stan Let's go
she ultimate you know what, it's her art is really cool,
by the way, I totally recommend checking it out. But
talk a little bit about mom Donnie's platform that he
ran on. I went to one of back and forth
about how I wanted to break this down because on
the one hand, I could just yeah, I focus on
(22:07):
like quote unquote women's issues. What's traditionally categorized as women's
issues like access to abortion and health and childcare and
like domestic violence resources, stuff like that. But I don't
think that really gets the whole picture. Really crazy idea
about to throw out here. Nobody's ever said this before,
but I think that all of all systems of injustice
(22:31):
they're connected.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Crazy, nobody's ever said that before. Again.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Uh, but in this sense, economic issues are women's issues
a because women are like participate and are affected by
the economy, whether you want to be or not. And
then be being a woman or being you know, assigned
female birth or whatever that means, you are more likely
to experience poverty across the board, especially.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Elderly women and single moms and trans women.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
And so I think, like, yeah, again, if this is
these are issues that are going to disproportionately affect women,
in a sense.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
They are women's issues.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Even though they don't we talk feminism the need for
feminism and why we say when we need feminism is
not just about women.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
What blowing my mind right here?
Speaker 3 (23:22):
I got to look into this whole thing you're talking about. Yeah,
so sorry, mom, Daddy ran on this idea of making
New York City and more affordable if you go to
his campaign's like platform page.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Literally the first.
Speaker 3 (23:36):
Line is quote New York is too expensive, so are
on will lower costs and make your life easier?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Sounds good to me? It is it is too expensive.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Particularly, some issues that he was focusing on were looking
at freezing rent, building word affordable housing, raising minimum wage.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
These all again sound great to me.
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Is somebody just living in New York City and not
being super wealthy. Also campaigns on free buses and city
run grocery stores.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
So yeah, these obviously.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
Don't only affect women, but these definitely affect women. I
know a lot of women whose lives would be way
easier if any or all of these were instituted. But
if we want to look particularly at like what are
traditionally seen a quote unquote women's issues, there's an entire
section on early childhood and education which proposes quote this
(24:27):
is also again from his campaign's website quote free child
care for every New Yorker aged six weeks.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
To five years.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Side note, I really love that they said every New
Yorker aged six weeks. Like the idea of looking at
a six week year old baby and being like that's
a New Yorker, Like just that is like a very
funny image to me. I don't know, I'm picturing like,
I don't know, like old school, like Martin scoresizing a character,
(24:56):
but like a tiny baby.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I'm imagining an infant industroller. People to get out the way.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
Exactly exactly with like both like accenting. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
His campaign also proposes baby baskets for newborns, which would
include quote a collection of essential goods and resources pre
of charge, including items like diapers, baby wipes, nursing pads,
postpartum pads, wattles, and books. Each NYC baby basket will
also include a resource guide of information on the city's
newborn home visiting program, breastfeeding, postpartum depression, and more so
(25:28):
shout out for bringing up postpartum depression.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Just something I don't think we talk about it enough.
But yeah, I again.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Within his platform, highlighting that he wants to make it
easier for new moms, new families to live their lives,
to re enter the workforce with free childcare and education,
all of that.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
This is all good in my book, you know.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
There's also a section, an entire section on LGBTQ plus protections,
which again that really stood out to me. Again looking
at the Democratic Party right now and seeing certain people
within the party that are really encouraging people to like
pull back from lgbt issues. The fact that they made
this like a whole section on their page really says
(26:21):
something to me. So it says, quote, the mom Donian
Administration will protect lgbt qia plus New Yorkers by expanding
and protecting gender firming care city wide, making NYC and
LGBTQIA plus Sextuary City, and creating the Office of lgbt
QIA Plus Affairs.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
We're finally going to get a burrow of ge Let's go.
Speaker 6 (26:46):
Yes, Gay City is happening.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
I want to just throw Miname into the throwing. I
think I would make a great Minister of Day Life
of New York City, just saying anyways, this section also
highlights the fact that guess lgbt QIA plus New Yorkers
are more likely to be affected by economic issues.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
So yeah, a nuance again going back to that issue of.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Women are more affected, particularly queer women, particularly queer people
in general. There is a longer memo on this topic
that points specifically to something that happened earlier this year. Quote,
a private institution operating with a quarter billion dollar public
subsidy should not have the ability to sell out young
trans New Yorkers to the Trump administration. Yet that's exactly
(27:30):
what happened when NYU Didn't Lang Going decided to stop
providing gender affirming care for trans youth. Soon after, other
private NYC hospitals also stopped providing necessary life stating healthcare
for trans youth. These decisions are indirect contradictions with New
York state law. So much terrible stuff has happened this year.
I don't blame you if you missed this story or
(27:50):
if you just like forgot about it. But as they're
saying in this memo, this was a moment I think
that was particularly despicable to me because it again, yeah,
it directly contradicted New York state law. This was back
in February, so this is early on in the Trump administration.
This was kind of an early example of a private
institution caving to the Trump Administration's policies preemptively. I actually
(28:16):
covered a protest when this happened for another show that
I work on called Afterlives shameless plug there please go
listen to that.
Speaker 2 (28:24):
And it was.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Like, very it was incredibly moving hearing some of these
kids speak like, I admire their bravery so much.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
I was like tearing up during parts of it. It truly,
it was so heartbreaking to hear.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I This was like one of those moments where I think,
like you're seeing in front of you, like the people
that are literally affected by it, and a lot of
times it's kids, and it's like that they shouldn't be
having to shoulder this. Yeah, it's messed up, and it's
messed up that they are suffering because these institutions are
just sort of preemptively caving or Trump. So I think
(29:06):
seeing that that particularly was getting called out in this memo,
that was a good efectomy. I think that is something
that it is like, this is an issue is taking seriously.
He is really committed to protecting gender affirming care, combating some.
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Of these very vague.
Speaker 3 (29:25):
Order executive orders and court rulings and whatever from the
Trump administration and saying like, no, New York is a sanctuary.
New York is a very gay city. New York is
a very queer city. Stonewall happened here, Like we're not letting.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Go of that. So yeah, all of those issues.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Combined, I would say I'm looking at this and my
brain is like, sounds like this is a pretty feminist candidate.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Sounds like he.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
Treats women and queer people and people that aren't sis
gender and everybody in between and whatever. It seems like
he he respects them as human beings. Like to see
that from a candidate kind of hard to find these days.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
But that brings me.
Speaker 3 (30:08):
To a question which I brought this up before we
started recording, which I'm kind of curious to hear your
thoughts on. Obviously, another aspect of this election, and particularly
in the last couple of weeks, weeks leading off to it,
there was a lot of Islamophobic fear mongering, and there
was a lot of the kind of assertions that I've
heard throughout my entire life as somebody who was two
(30:31):
years old when nine to eleven happened, and you know,
grew up in the aftermath of all that, which is
this idea that Islam is particularly brutal to women, and
you know, we need to protect white women, I mean
just women, but they mean white women from this kind
(30:51):
of scary boogeyman of Islam. There was a lot of
fear mongering about like he's gonna in state Sharia law.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
I love that.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
I have seen the like Shakira law uh meme going
around so many times with just people putting the gift
of Shakira dancing, and.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
I do love that. But uh yeah, like they're there.
Speaker 3 (31:13):
Which again shocking that the right is contradicting itself. This
is also then they're saying like, uh sharia law.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
And then they're also like and he's.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
A far left radical and he's gonna bring Stalinism, maoism,
evil godless kami, Like what what are you?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Anyways, they don't need it to make sense.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But my question is does this sort of fear mongering
strategy does it still work? Does this fear mongering on
ISLM still work in twenty twenty five, I would say
yes and no. I think again, we're also looking at
New York City. We're not looking at the whole country,
so it is a different story. But I was curious
as to you, I guess, from two non New Yorkers,
what were your thoughts on this?
Speaker 2 (31:53):
Aye and Samantha.
Speaker 4 (31:55):
You know, I'm not gonna lie because I didn't know.
I knew he was not white, that part was obvious.
I didn't know much about his background. I just saw
political takes and how much white people really.
Speaker 6 (32:11):
I didn't like him, and.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
There's also I will really quick, I've had it, And
there's also is some.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
I uh.
Speaker 3 (32:19):
There was some sort of fear mongering around particularly the.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Israel and the.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
Fact which interestingly he he has not said anything.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Like yeah, particularly bad about Israel.
Speaker 3 (32:36):
I think he had shown up in support of, like
like protesting the genocide that's happening now, right, and that
was getting turned into into like the news cycle and like,
oh my god, he hates the Jews and he thinks that.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Israel is we should destroy Israel, and it was like,
I don't think he said that ever.
Speaker 4 (32:55):
Yeah, anti Semitic, and somehow also translated into like does
he have funds that is going to places I don't.
I'm gonna don't understand his threat in that specific conversation.
Speaker 6 (33:08):
Other than influence, I guess.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Because there was really funny.
Speaker 6 (33:12):
It was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
Yeah was out wait who oh the general thrashed out
after the results and I was like, yeah, I'm confused.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
I'll be so real.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
I did not know who Dever Messang was, but she
from another podcast that I was listening to her that was
like going into djil about the whole situation that was like, oh, yeah,
this makes sense, washed up after grifter fit got it.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Uh her flip her red pill like turn.
Speaker 2 (33:42):
It is like should be studied to be honest, but
it's terf.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
It's like terf ideology and it is like Zionism. That
are the two things that like really get people like
it is.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
There's a whole other conversation and were going to a
whole episode about that at some point. But there was a.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
Very funny moment in the one of the debates leading
up to the prime where it was the Democratic nominees,
where they asked the question was basically like, hey, if
you when you become mayor of New York City, where
it's the first place you're going to go, And everybody
down the line said tel Aviv And then they get
to Zoron and he was like I'm staying in New York,
like this is the city I'm supposed to be running,
(34:18):
which I was like, yeah, why are you doing there?
Our current mayor literally got indicted for like taking bribes
from Turkey, Like I don't want to hear what other
countries they're going to, Like how are you going to
fix the problems?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Which I don't know.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
He had a very funny, very I think like professional
to say response where he basically was like, yeah, no,
like this is a we're talking about local issues.
Speaker 2 (34:41):
We should be talking about local issues.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
I'm saying in New York, I'm fixing the problems here,
which I was like, yeah, Like that's what I want
to hear.
Speaker 6 (34:48):
All right, that makes the most sense. You're the mayor, right.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
I felt like this election specifically, it was gonna be
a litmus test to a lot in the country, like
whether or not I understood everything about him. Like I said,
I thought he was from an Indian background and his
family Clindage is but then he's from his He was
(35:22):
so like, all of those things are separate in these conversations.
So I was kind of just confused about this fear
mongering about that specifically. I'm like, is this because he's brown?
And again I don't know anything about how religion none
of that. I was like, are we back to just
racially profiling based on literal skin color? Like I'm like,
(35:42):
not understanding the background. So for me, all of that
was odd. But watching this election knowing that this would
be a catalyst to what is happening around the country
because it's kind of like New York. Maybe New York
City may be the more extreme, but it needs to
be the more extreme, so we could have change everywhere
(36:02):
else where we don't.
Speaker 6 (36:03):
We will have a middle ground.
Speaker 4 (36:05):
And so that middle ground comes from what does the
extremists areas have And I don't mean they're extrememists. I'm
just saying, like in literal like it seems more to
the right to the left of somewhere, so exactly, so
like in that level, like what does has look like
for the rest of the country. If we see this
as a people group, we know that there is hope
(36:28):
and seeing that local elections are so important that it
does once again help to kind of predict what is
the next leading So.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
That's how I saw it. Any, I don't, I don't.
What are your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (36:44):
Okay, so nothing is one part.
Speaker 6 (36:45):
I don't think I answered that, pot.
Speaker 3 (36:47):
I I'll I've been actually an inter interjact really quick.
I think to what you were saying. Something I think
was really interesting was like there obviously there was kind
of the underlying asamophobia. There was and like you said,
this was an election in New York City. It's the
biggest city in the United States. It is a local election,
but also it is kind of a Linimus test for
the Democratic Party. It does sort of like set the
tone for what the Democratic Party is when to be there.
(37:09):
When we saw the primary, there was a lot chatter
from you know, within the Democratic Party of.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Like, oh my god, whoa what does this mean?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
We're gonna actually have to adjust our platform to issues
that people care about what? But there was Yeah, so
there was some early is obviously from like the right
and from Trump that was very loud because everybody was
paying attention to this election at the same time.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I think, like looking.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
Particularly at the month leading up to the election, the
Cuomo campaign like doubled down to that as well, Like
it was sort of like a hail Mary, Like there
were he released some really terrible statements being like, oh, yeah,
he would like cheer on an under nine to eleven
if it happened, like terrible insane thing to say. Yeah,
(37:57):
Like there was a point where you could tell like
the campaign was sort of like, you know what, final hour,
Let's see if this works, and it didn't.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
It didn't.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
I think that is worth looking at. But it still
was attacked at big try, so it is sort of like, yeah, again,
it's it's on the one hand, it is like we
still I'm shocking that America is still racist.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Who would have thought?
Speaker 3 (38:23):
But also I think there is a question of, like,
it's not going to be as effective as it was.
Speaker 2 (38:27):
I think that there is like more pushback to that.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
That feels good to me, that feels like we're headed
in a good direction.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
But yes, okay, so related. I I knew I knew
what was going on in the New York collection, but
I only kind of knew the I like the basics,
and then SNL did a sketch on it, and it
was I was reading the comments and I was like, oh,
(38:56):
New Yorkers, you guys are so funny.
Speaker 2 (38:59):
So but I would say that in my.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
What I encountered about the kind of Islamophobia regards in
regards to women issue with this, I've I mean, I
always thought and still think that that's just a let's
here's the blame. Here's just really scary, we actually don't
care about women. I've always thought that, but I think
in this case that in so many rights have just
(39:33):
gotten pushed back, and I don't even think people cared
about that I think they just cared he was Muslim
and didn't have to go a step.
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Further right, Like it's almost sort of.
Speaker 3 (39:45):
Like the right is so mask off at this point
that they don't even have to pretend to care about women,
because again, like what you're saying, I always was kind
of just a grift. It was a like pretending to
carer meanwhile, where we don't want women to vote. But
like I think I kind of agree with you where
I think like there was so much fear mongering among
around the fact that he was Muslim, that he uh
(40:07):
was a like brown man running for office.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Uh, But.
Speaker 3 (40:15):
I wasn't like there was Yeah, again like when people
say sharia law, we know they're they're we know what
they're talking about. They are like kind of pulling back
to like Taliban images. But at the same time, there
wasn't as much like direct like like I wasn't I think,
like the rhetoric that I remember hearing growing up a
lot around like the war in Afghanistan and the war
(40:35):
in Iraq and like quote unquote why we were there
and we were there to like liberate.
Speaker 2 (40:39):
Women from the Taliban.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
I wasn't hearing as much of like that rhetoric, which again,
I I.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
That is bullshit.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
I'm wanna say that's bull because these are the same
people that again now don't want women to have the
right to vote.
Speaker 5 (40:51):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
But yeah, Like I think.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
It is interesting that we have gotten so far, like
the right has gone so far that they like can't
even tend to care about that anymore, which I think
ultimately ends up kind of being a good thing because then, yeah,
you're gonna have less like centrist center left feminists that
are going to kind of get conned into thinking this way,
which yeah, like it's I guess, I guess maybe it's
(41:18):
good that they're just going full crazy fascist at this point.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
I don't know.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's kind of nice to know who your
enemy is. Yeah, But I do find it interesting because
if as it was supposed to be, and as we
understand it, that there's a separation of church and state,
and that's how I believe like politicians should be, and
he's kind of in that level of like, oh, yeah,
we trust that he's going to understand, like not that
(41:45):
there's anything being wrong with Muslim but that's just not
a factor unless that's what your stance is on.
Speaker 6 (41:50):
As we see with Christian nationalism, you.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Know exactly exactly.
Speaker 3 (41:53):
I mean, at the end of the day, I look,
there's politicians that I respect that I'm like, I know
that there they don't have the same beliefs as me,
whether they're Christian or Muslim or whatever, and like I
also understand, like I don't know. Yeah, Like for me,
I never was a concern that I was.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Like, I'm more concerned if that is a stance that
you're putting your your like political views on. If you're
sitting here and saying, I believe God is the foremost
so therefore everything in law should be based on my
beliefs in God as we are seeing.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
In Like, I think there's also something to be said
about the fact that again Like he made queer rights
a tenth pole of his campaign. He the weekend before
Halloween weekend, he was out at a bunch of gay
bars campaigning. I am so mad that I decided to
say it that Saturday, because of course, it was like
(42:51):
the first day in a while that I was like, oh,
I'm really tired.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
I went out two nights and well it was Halloween
week Like, so I'm gonna arrest I'm gonna.
Speaker 3 (42:57):
Be responsible and then of course Zarn Mam Dannie is
out at a bunch of bars, like not far from
where I live. So I was like, cool, it's fine whatever,
But like it was sort of.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Like the.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Yeah, we've gotten a point where I think people are
willing to or people are able.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
At least some people. Again, we're talking about New York City.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
I don't know how much this is like a nationwide ye,
but they're like there's more acknowledgment of the fact that
it's like, you can be a progressive Muslim the same
way like I my background as I grew up. One
of my parents is Jewish, one of parents is Catholic.
I know plenty of people that are progressive Jews, that
are progressive Christians that like have no problem with gay
(43:44):
people or going out to the club, or premarital sex
or whatever kind of abortion, et cetera. Stuff that you know,
weird culture war stuff. Now I think that there has
been a little bit more space to be like, yeah,
there's nothing that makes Islam.
Speaker 2 (44:01):
Really any different in that regard.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
I know plenty of people that are I think, like
they grew up Muslim, they're failing or they're kind of
added towards towards Islam or very similar to my attitude
towards Judaism, where I'm like, it's part of my identity,
it's part of my upbringing, it's part of my values.
Speaker 2 (44:17):
But like, I'm not particularly religious.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
I'm not gonna like judge people because they don't follow
all these rules or whatever. I don't follow any all
of those rules, Like I don't know. I only keep
kosher when I don't want to eat something, and it
gives me an easy excuse.
Speaker 9 (44:34):
So UH.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
Got brunch.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
Last time we saw each other in person, I was like, yeah,
I'm not eating bacon because I don't like pork, and
I just tell people that I keep kosher or whatever
I'm asked if I want pork products, even though I
will eat a cheeseburger without a second thought. But but yeah, anyway, Yeah,
it was sort of like the To me, this was
(45:05):
kind of the the like grasping at straws. Yeah, it
was the accumulation of like the hypocrisy of all this
where it's like, yeah, you can't really point to the
dude out at mood Ring at two am and be like, yeah,
I think this guy uh wants everybody to wear burkas
(45:26):
and women and men can't look at each other. I
don't know, like all of the weird fear monk, which
again is it also exists in every religion.
Speaker 4 (45:34):
But yeah, this is kind of a terrorist nation with
Christian nationalism, Like several countries have put warnings on this
country for that, so I can't.
Speaker 6 (45:42):
Say that out loud. Samantha is different, you know, religion.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
Sorry, So listeners, it happened again. Joey and I we
get to go in.
Speaker 9 (45:57):
Samantha's personally, Oh my goodness, and we just got to
talking and there's so much to discuss, and so we
did break this conversation up into two parts again unexpectedly.
Speaker 1 (46:14):
So again you're getting an outro from me and not
from Joey. But you can find Joey on social media
platforms at pat not Pratt, and also on shows like
Afterlives or there are no girls on the Internet with
friend of the show bridget Time.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
So yes, go check.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Those things out and be shorted to come back for
part two because this is a wide ranging conversation.
Speaker 6 (46:44):
Even sex and the city.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
I mean, come on, I was not anticipating that. That
was honestly a surprise, So yes, come back for that
and If you would like to email us, you can.
Our email is hello at Stuffannever Told You dot com.
You can is on Blue Sky at mol Stuff podcasts,
or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff We Never Told You.
We're also on YouTube. We have some new merchandise dot
(47:06):
com hero and we have a book you can get
where to get your books. Thanks as always too, our
super produced Christina, our exective prusin Maya, and a contrictor Joey.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Thank you he was here for this one.
Speaker 1 (47:17):
And thanks to you for listening Stuff and Every Child
Inspection by Heart Radio.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
For more podcasts or my Heart Radio.
Speaker 1 (47:21):
You can check out the art radio app, Apple Podcasts,
or where you listen to your favorite show
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