Book Club: Ghost Summer (Part 2)

In part 2 of our discussion of Tananarive Due's collection of short stories Ghost Summer, we delve into themes of grief, the apocalypse and innocence.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stuff
I've never told you Protection by Hurt Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
And welcome to part two of our book club. I
guess it's a good thing we did do it, like
we skipped the month, having two episodes dedicated to this
one book. Worth it, by the way, worth it? And
what are we talking about if you have missed this
previous recording. We're talking about our feminist book club pick,
which is called Ghosts Summer. Bye. Tanana Reeved. Ghost Summer

(00:42):
is her first collection of short stories that she published
in twenty fifteen, and it is a beauty. It has
won many awards, deservedly. So a couple of these tales
have turned into productions. Yeah, we need to go check
that out. I think actually it should be all our
horror lists. Why not come on? But yeah, so we

(01:04):
have made it. I don't know if it's halfway through
on the act in the actual book, but in our
halfway through point. And we are back with part two,
and just again with the content warning. We are talking
about some dark stuff. It is some dark historical horror
with enslavement, death, murder, disease, apocalypse. I'm trying to think

(01:27):
anything else that I should add to that list. Dystopian hopelessness, existentialism,
no brief mentions of sexual assault, but we're not going
to talk about it.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
But if you get the book, you'll yes.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
So yeah, So we are back and we're picking back
up in the middle of it with Aftermoon. And interestingly,
so we ended last one with the cloning one called
Like Daughter, and this one also felt like it was
completely separate because a lot of this is interlinked, a
lot of her stories are interlinked, but these two were

(02:04):
like kind of on its own. Because it did I
was say, oh, wait, what are we talking about? Because
it took me a minute to adjust to what we
were listening to. And this story After Moon is one
of those stories. So in this story, we meet Kenya
who discovers a dermatologist who advertises to be an expert
in licanthropy. So were wolves And it took me a

(02:27):
minute to figure that out. I'm not gonna lie. I
was like, wait, are we talking about? Where wolves? Here?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
We are? We are?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
We are? Essentially, she's talking about her experience after the moon,
the full moon that's called After Moon, where she kind
of has a relief to being her normal, normal form
even though she still needs her bloody raw steak and
was craving one for the night. But she did see
this side was a little bit angry. I was like,

(02:53):
this is not funny, and I'm gonna go tell him so.
So she walks into this office, but because again she
was offended. But all of a sudden, as she walks in,
she becomes somewhat hypnotized by the music and the atmosphere.
She talks about the sense and how she didn't know
what to do, and it all calmed her and she
really liked it and she was drawn to it there.

(03:15):
Soon after, she was greeted by doctor Jack, who throws
her a thing of rowney here and she gobbles it up.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
It is very excited.

Speaker 2 (03:25):
He immediately knew what and who she was. It turns
out he was not joking when he put that on
the sign. He understood her conditions so much so that
she did come back. She realized he may be actually helpful.
At first, she was just like, Eh, I don't know
if you can do anything for me. Are you one
of those people who are trying to find your people? Like?

(03:45):
Are you trying to wife me? Because I don't want
to be with you? Or are you actually trying to help?
He talks about how he does groups. They do outings
together where they go and do their thing as crew,
their wolf thing. He talks about people coming to see
him to treat different symptoms, as he says, including hairiness.

(04:06):
Talks about a person who comes from DC to see him,
travels on the train to come and see him, and
that really fascinates her because she's like, who is this
person that would travel calmly to come here and get treatment.
So she kind of has this both hope and kind
of doubt about what he can do, especially with her
grandfather who has taught her to really fully embrace the

(04:28):
wolf in her, like that is a shame to buy
me instead of hunting for it, that to be hairy
is to be glorious type of conversation, and she hates this,
especially because her parents are not like this, and they've
done so much try to hide that to the point
I don't think the father even knows. Her father even knows.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
About this condestion.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
She just kind of her mother hit her away by
sending her to the grandfather's house because she was too
ashamed of this condition, which came out at her childhood
in her childhood actually after a dog bit her, yes, which,
by the way, the doctor was like, that's not a thing,
that's a She's like, well that happened to me, and
it's like, eh, someone's lying here, but okay, I'll take

(05:11):
your ward for it. Like it's somewhat condescending, yeah, but
at the same time also very like empathetic, also trying
to make some money, so all those things are happening here.
But she does return and she talks about what she wanted,
which is to help with her hairiness. So she has
spots off her chest, to the point that she got
humiliated as a young girl when making out with a

(05:33):
boy and found her patch of hairy chest and she
was so upset she didn't ever want to think about
it again. She's currently engaged to a person who doesn't
have that condition, so doesn't understand what that is. And
when the doctor asks what she does when she does
see him, she shaves or he's never seen her or
like that. So yeah, two of those options. And he's boring,
but she's okay with boring because he at least likes

(05:59):
her kind of conversation.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Yeah, she made him sound like he's very sweet, very
very nice. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
So while they were talking about the conditions and her
grandfather and all these things and the family members, she
talks about why she wants to lead a normal life,
including trying to you know, stay away from the phases,
and why she needs to scream. He offers the scream
that she has to put on this time is the day,
and how it will get rid of it. It is
very expensive, but it works. He also is trying to

(06:27):
get her to come to these retreats and meet some
of the others and very surprised when she says she doesn't.
She's not interested, and he pretty much.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Says good luck, good luck with your your life.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
Yeah, normal life, Good luck with that. And that's how
we end. Like it was such an interesting like you
have a monster what we would understand as a monster,
just being like, eh, trying to be normal.

Speaker 1 (06:53):
Like talking about getting hair waxed.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
He's like, oh my god, stop doing that. That's going
to be painful and it's not going to help you.
You're going to have a condition. Well the doctor was
quite funny to be yeah, and I was like I
thought maybe he was a predator at first, Well like,
oh no, he's not. Okay, Yeah, he's just I was.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
I was giving him the side I at first, but
I was like, okay, she was.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Going to go to the side eye, So what was
with her? I was like, all right, what was this?
So essentially this is about trying to live through her
heartshes but hoping to ignore the problem, as well as
the fact that it's just a part of who she
is and her not want to accept that because no
one around her would.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yes, and if you haven't listened to part one, So
at the end of these short stories, do you gives
her like what prompt caused her to write this? Where
it was included I usually had another publication or something
and she talked about this one. I thought this was
really interesting because you can apply it in a lot
of ways in terms of, you know, just being a
woman and being told you to get rid of hair,

(07:51):
unwanted hair, right, heating certain things or stuff like that,
and the fact that it ends there where it's that
you don't know if she's gonna have this happy, normal
life or if she might kind of embrace what her
grandfather kept telling her, right and go meet up with
that guy from DC. She was so interested in.

Speaker 2 (08:14):
That DC moment. I was like she really I want
them to meet too, because she has this envisioning of
him living this normal life, being honest, and that's that conversation,
like what is this normal life? Commuting on a train
to come see a doctor, a specialist, that's normal, But
the trying to gather and go have retreats, that's not
normal for her.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
Right, And she was just really interested because she hadn't
really had a connection outside of her grandfather with anybody else. Right,
So you know, you got this group, and you've got
somebody who's willing to travel because it was taking place
in New York, so willing to travel from DC to
New York to find this doctor and to find this group.
It was really it was an interesting story. It kind

(08:55):
of reminded me of that game we played that we
talked about coffee talk.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
You know, just come in and just like chilling.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
So wearabole. Oh yeah that's cool. That's a vampire. Yeah,
I just want coffee. It's okay as.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
An alien the whole time? Okay, alert, But it was
I think, and it was not your typical horror. It
was just like a huh with horror characters.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Yeah, that one was much more of kind of a.
I think the only heart to me that was like
a horror was like, oh god, this doctor, I don't
know what's up, so it's like anticipatory horror.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
It was.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
It was actually very kind of cute, interesting.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Story actually, like cute for like just the normal conversation
but for monsters. And they're not monsters. Yeah, if were
wolves exist, and I'm going to offend them, but yeah,
yeah a monster unless you kill people, don't don't kill people.

Speaker 1 (09:50):
Yeah yeah, and just like how he throws like raw
meat at her and.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Yeah, so it was a nice little interest like oh okay, okay, okay.
But with that we come back to more of her
themes that we have seen throughout in this one called
Trial Day, and that we have Letitia, who is a
young girl living with her father and stepmother, but she

(10:15):
also talks about her half brother, Wallace, who lives a
day's drive away, is what it says, and she called
him brother because of his love and kindness towards her,
like brother so and so, but like just brother. Her stepmother, however,
did not like her, did like Wallace the same she
did like brothers. She like he can make her laugh.
But you know, we don't know too much. But she

(10:36):
also stepmother doesn't seem to like the father, like the
person she's married to either. She just kind of looked
at all of them with disdain essentially. And one of
the things that I forgot to add in while I
was writing this is that Letitia can see truth essentially,
she can see fear, she can see how you're feeling. Like,
so she knew her stepmother hated her, even if her

(10:57):
stepmother never said it, she can see it. Kind of
a gift she has. But for Letitia, she missed her brother,
who was always loving and kind to her, and he
was gone for a while, to the point she started
wondering why he wasn't coming back. She soon learned that
he was in jail, like reports were showing that he
had gone to jail, but she learned more detail through

(11:17):
a letter that the NAACP sent to her father, and
she finds out that brother was arrested for armed robbery
of a white man's shop who hates him. Apparently they
had a whole thing previously. Of course, there is racism,
as the testimonies were different, so different people said different
things about whether or not he had a gun. The
NAACP requested that his father, her father come to the

(11:41):
trial to help his son's case as an upstanding businessman,
or that maybe brother maybe executed as several other young
black men had been recently under false preceenses like saying
that they did these things and we know this falsely
accused of crimes in order to put a death sentence
or them in jail longer, or sometimes just to lynch them.

(12:04):
When Letitia asked her father at dinner if he was going,
he said he wasn't and try to make her be quiet.
Like everything got very upsetting because she wasn't supposed to know. Obviously,
she went and read a letter she wasn't supposed to,
so everything kind of got into up people stepmother. She
becomes very upset, reminding him he promised he wouldn't, making

(12:25):
Letitia get more upset about it, and him swearing he wouldn't.
He wouldn't, he wouldn't. So this goes back and forth,
and Letitia is upset and they he forces her into
her room because he's trying to get her to be quiet. Later,
Letitia goes to see her own mother, who I think
they essentially call her a voodoo woman in the actual story,
and she has no teeth, but it's still beautiful and

(12:47):
does a lot of spells. But so she Letitia goes
to see her mother at this time, who her mother
says that the stepmother had a strong hold on the
father and that her powers and magic was more powerful
than her own, and that Letitia was the only one
who could break that hold and she had to do

(13:10):
it by sacrificing her cat named Midnight at Midnight yep.

Speaker 1 (13:15):
The mother was like that you knew when you named her. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:19):
And by the way, it's at this point just side
note that I'm like, do I fast forward past this
because oh my god? What. So she's saying that she
has to take something she loves and sacrifice it and
bleed it in order to free this curse, like no
chickens will do it. All these things, and Latitia loves
her cat. She loves her cat. Latitia was sad about

(13:40):
it and went back and forth about why she should
or if she shouldn't, and she finally like had to say,
I have to do this for my brother. I have
to save my brother. And while she was trying, she
does get a poke in there, but her father actually
stops her. There is blood, but the cat is okay. Yes,
the cat is okay, and the father stops angry and

(14:01):
like gets upset and takes her back to the room.
And but it is that same night he packs his
bags and hes to the trial against step mothers begging
and pleading and forcing him trying to stay, and she
finally and he finally goes, and Letitia is able to
break that hold, and that's how the story ends.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Yep, it's a lot. It was a lot. That also
was another one that went places I wasn't expecting. But okay,
du said about this one quote, I wanted to fix
a broken piece of my family history. My grandmother, the
late Lottie Powell Sears Houston, clearly remembered her half brother

(14:44):
being on trial for his life and her father was
too intimidated to testify on his behalf, which she considered
cowardly for the rest of her life, though I can
only imagine that institutional racism standing in his way. Her
brother died on death row. Did brother die in this story?
Maybe maybe not, but at least Letitia gave her father's
strength enough to try right.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
For When I read that that, my heart like even now,
my heart just like feels like it's being squeezed because
she understanding like generational trauma and like wanting to fix
that and what could you do if you fix that?
There's so much in that conversation because exactly as she's saying,
institutional racism, because the father goes back and forth and

(15:29):
talking about how his testimony won't do anything because in
the end it will just ruin his reputation and not
help his son's reputation. So this back and forth about
like they will use it against him to take his
stuff away or accuse him of being on the same
level as an armed robber, and that is that is
that conversation of like what really happens? Does this help

(15:50):
or does this hurt? And who does it help? And
who does it hurt? And him talking about the NAACP
being corrupt and just trying to make money and that
if they can't help, then how can he help? Like
that there was this hole back and forth which is
too real, Like there's so many in this conversation, especially
those who are like marginalized and intersectionally marginalized, like what

(16:13):
is the helpful part and what is putting me at
harm's risk? And that level of understanding, how do I
keep my family safe. What if this causes more harm
for my family. There's so many things, and not that
he's not family, but like in this level of family,
and like there's so much in that depth. And Letitia
talking about sacrificing her something that she loves for her

(16:36):
brother and like how she can do this and doesn't
really help, but what if it doesn't help, And then
her praying that this is like about the story of
Abraham and Isaac, about like him being told he has
to sacrifice his son, but to him being stopped and
they just need to see the willingness and hoping for
that as well, in which it did turn out that way. Yeah,
So there's that it was such a depth of story

(16:59):
and the fact that it was based on something that
did occur. Because even today we know people, especially people
of colored men, of black men, women of color, black
women are unjustly punished. So they may have done something, sure,
but the amount of sentencing and the persecution level is

(17:19):
so disjointed and unjust, and it's happening today. We've seen it.
We've seen so many things and how society really does
look down on people of different economic places. So it's
just it's heartbreaking. So this one got me. I was like,
oh god, oh Latitia, don't kill the cat. No, I know, y'all,

(17:43):
it was too much. I was like, no, why do.
By the way, apparently do really loves cats. She does
say that she has her own cats, themes of cats throughout.

Speaker 1 (17:54):
Also the cat Midnight, and the story was like, no fakes,
it's like come back.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
At first she was like no, he said, yeah, go ahead,
I understand, and then was like hell no, was like,
don't touch me. Ever again, what did you do rightly?

Speaker 1 (18:14):
So that's fair enough.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
So there's that one, and we're coming back to another one.
Maybe it was just the placement of the back to
back of these stories, because this one's another one that
was like ripping at my heart, like I had to.

(18:38):
I think I was listening to it in the car
and I had to sit in the car after apart
for a good minute because I was like what yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
And just a note about this one before we get
into it. It's written as like journal entries from a
little boy, which I have a story like that. Oh okay,
maybe we.

Speaker 2 (18:55):
Shall No, it's a very short story.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
Short stories. These are short story it is.

Speaker 2 (19:01):
I don't know if I have a collection, okay, but
here we go. So Patient zero is the title of
this one is we meet a young boy Jay, who
is in isolation. He was considered patient zero though, as
he says, his father is the one that passed the
virus to him and his entire family. But he got
that from a job he was on while traveling on

(19:22):
I believe a ship. But Jay was alive and he
seemed okay. His whole family was not okay. All of
them died one by one by one. He had his doctor,
doctor Ben, his favorite nurse Veronica, and his tutor, Missus Mannigot,
who often came to see him. Yes, the story is
in journal form. Jay was given in order to pass

(19:45):
his days and keep a record. We learned that the
staff actually stopped him from watching TV as he had
seen something disturbing and upsetting reports about him. Yeah, so
they took all that away and gave him like tapes,
and then slowly they just started taking all the away.
He received an autograph picture of Dan Marino and even
received a call from the President saying that they were

(20:07):
rooting for him. He later thinks that Dan Marino's autograph
looks similar to doctor Ben. But you know. He tries
not to think about it that too hard. His family,
like we said, have all died due to this disease,
even his aunt who had come to help before knowing
what was making them sick, and he talks about how
he wished she never came.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:28):
Soon after the incident of Veronica accidentally pokes herself with
a needle, causing a tear in her suit, and we
find out that she has died from the same illness,
and we slowly see people disappearing from his life. The
last person he interacts with is miss Mannegatt, who gives
him the code to the doors, because all the codes

(20:50):
and all the things in the hospital are secured with
codes to leave if he's alone and is getting hungry,
so she sees. She brings him a cold oatmeal. That's
the last thing he gets if he tells him this code.
Throughout this time, the powers flickering off and on in
the building. He can't figure out what's going on. People
have slowly disappeared, people are kind of being mean to him,

(21:11):
like all these different things, and that day comes where
he is all alone and hungry. At one point, the
power is out and he doesn't know what to do
because he can't get out because all these secure doors
are operated through the electricity. Finally, the power does come
out and he leaves the hospital. He goes downstairs with
the kitchen first, because he knows he can. He doesn't
want to get anybody sick, and by the way, that's

(21:31):
a big thing. He doesn't want to get anybody sick,
and he knows that he is getting people sick, so
he's trying to stay behind. But he goes to the
kitchen and there's no food left, and so he moves
on and leaves a note in his journal that says,
I am going to get food, but I promise I
will come right back and stay in isolation. Please just

(21:55):
I'll be back. I'm so sorry. But he comes out
into the parking lot and sees that it is desolate.
There's nobody around and everybody is gone, and he goes
out to go find food. Yep, y'all, I'm upset about
it right now. I'm thinking about this, essentially, she writes.

(22:16):
Do writes that this was about isolation and loneliness and innocence,
and it is. He is upbeat throughout. He talks about
how he doesn't write when he's sad, and so he
comes back and like and each date is each day
is dated or what day was, and with these and
the slow and how like miss Manna got even to
the end, was fighting for him because she volunteered to

(22:38):
come and see him to begin with, to tutor him.
And then she fought against the doctor. After doctor Ben
dies or disappears, another doctor comes and she has to
fight with him to come and see him. Comes. Yeah, yeah,
and she tells him the truth. She's the one person
no matter what, even if it's not great. If it's
not great, then she doesn't want to share. She says,

(23:01):
we're not talking about this right now, or you don't
need to know this right now, but she doesn't lie
to him.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah yeah. And they were taking like a lot of
blood from him and trying to study him. So I
could see that throughout. But it was really heartbreaking because
he was so upbeat and he did like hearing him
write as a child and knowing like you see, you

(23:28):
see these adults come in, but you can't entirely get
the full picture of what's going on, but you know
it's bad, it is not good, right, And so that
juxtaposition of having kind of this innocence and this hopefulness
and these connections to Veroniga who died and then mismana

(23:50):
god and then kind of finding out at the end. Yeah,
it's just as bad as I ought it the rest.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
So this actually starts the apocalypse portion of the book.
So the next four more stories will be about essentially
the end apocalypse. So it is that theme throughout. So
buckle in.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah, I was like, ooh, zombies, which alert they are
going to be zombies later.

Speaker 2 (24:27):
Actually right now, I think, so, yeah, let's jump into
this into the next one called danger Word. We have
Kendrick who is currently staying with Grandpa, So this is
where we're at during the time of infection, maybe the apocalypse.
Kendrick had escaped his home and was now living with
his grandpa, who had rescued him. Things had been bleak

(24:49):
and scary, but he was learning to survive with his
rough and tough grandfather. So this grandfather's kind of like a.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
End of time survive survival is a prepper.

Speaker 2 (25:02):
A prepper not intense, but like he was ready, like
at this point he had the things ready to go.
The day that they we read the story, they decided
to head to a gas station to get supplies and
maybe even a coke for Kendrick, who had requested it,
which was the first time he's spoken to his grandfather
since arriving at his Grandpa Joe's and his Grandpa Joe

(25:22):
Uh he had hidden previously, right before he was rescued.
He had hidden in the safe room and was waiting
for his grandpa to come out. And they had a
danger word, and this danger word was the only way
he would come out. And his mom was like, do
not let anybody in unless it's your grandpa saying the
danger word. And not even his mom or dad knew

(25:43):
this word. It was just between Kendrick and Grandpa Joe.
So they're back. And as they were making their way
to the store, Grandpa Joe was hyper vigilant of the surroundings,
like wouldn't let it, wouldn't slow down for anybody, kept moving,
reminding Kendrick how to use the gun he had given
and how to be careful. So like every step of

(26:04):
the way is teaching Kendrick to survive and what to
look out for and how to survive. Arriving at the
gas station, they see the owner, Mike. So in between
all this, I will say Kendrick was given an option
to stay with a neighbor who is called the dog Lady,
or to come with her grandpa. And because he actually
said words, Grandpa was so excited and had to fulfill

(26:25):
his wish, which was to get a coke. So he
was like, come on, and this was kind of that
driving force of why they were going to the grocery store. Yes,
they needed supplies, but now the grand Grandpa Joe had
even more motivation. He had to get him this drink.
So arriving at the gas station, they see the owner, Mike,
who has been enough friend of Grandpa Joe's for a
long while, who seems a bit weird, but he's coherent.
And from what Grandpa Joe understood, if you're a zombie,

(26:48):
you can't speak words, you can't communicate. So but he's,
you know, so coherent, all right, cool cool. Mike tells
them he has hot dogs come in. During this time,
Grandpa Joe's kind of looking around, still suspicious because Mike
has sons, and where are they usually there with him
helping him, and he doesn't see them, and he asks,

(27:09):
where's your sons? Mike doesn't answer, He just says, come
and get get hot dogs, and he's like, no, but
where's his son. He's like, eh, they're around, come get
hot dogs, very jovially. I guess. As they walk in,
they see the TV is on with Archie Bunker shows taped,
and then Mike is having a good old time watching
this show. They look for supplies, but soon again Mike

(27:32):
is carrying on laughing about hot dogs. Again, something is
still odd, but it's too late. At this point, Mike
attacks Grandpa Joe, biting him and during this time they
have a whole like scuffle and Kendrick shoots Mike and
he's able to stop him. However, Grandpa Joe has been

(27:53):
bitten during this time. Grandpa John knows it's too late,
but they needed to get out for Kendrick's sake because
his Mike's son's around here somewhere. So they rushed quickly
to get into the car and start driving slowly. Grandball
Joe knows he's turning, and when he asked Kendrick what
happened to his parents, he said they got sleepy. They
got sleepy, and they didn't know what was going on.

(28:15):
They didn't know what was going on, but they just
kept saying they were tired, and he was like, okay,
he felt that he felt the numbness of his leg
who's bitten, and he was getting sleepy as well. In
his mind, he's cursing himself and trying to think about
the fact that that Mike spoke to him. And then
he realized when he had arrived at Kendrick's home to
get him, he thought he had imagined his daughter saying daddy,

(28:37):
which is something he hadn't heard until she called him
to come get Kendrick, and realizing that he did say that,
so she was talking to him when he shot her
and Kendrick's dad. So during this time, he's realizing, Okay,
they are essentially evolving, is what he is figuring out,
Like they are aware and all these things. He tells

(29:01):
Kendrick that they can't drive for long. When they stop,
he needs to run, go towards rescue centers, which is
what they heard on the radio when they were driving,
and to keep going and no matter what if he
heard something approaching, yell and shoot, and that's essentially what
he says. So Kendrick is trying to do all these things,
saying grandpa or grandpa know, But then he gets it together,

(29:22):
gets his coat, gets his gun, and runs as Grandpa
tells him to go. Grandpa is trying to turn the
gun on himself, but he's slowly turning too much, and
in his mind we can see and we can read
what's set of going through his mind, which is like
he wants to be alive, this new zombie speaking in
his mind essentially and talking about how he needs to

(29:42):
go get Kendrick. He needs to go get Kendrick. And
we see Kendrick hiding in the forest because he's too
tired to run and it's getting dark. So Kendrick sits
with his gun. He hears something approaching, and he hears
his grandpa saying the danger word. Breakfast yep.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
End yep.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
This was the story thatdu wrote with her husband, Stephen Barnes.
She writes after years of collaborating on film and TV
pitches and projects, Danger Word was my first prose collaboration
with my husband's science fiction writer, Stephen Barnes, and it's
kind of the beginning of a few of their projects together.

(30:29):
Messing with me with these kids.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Yeah, yeah, she's so great at the open ending.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yeah, everything is that like you don't quite know.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
It leaves your imagination is where the worst things are
going to happen. And she knows that.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
I can't remember did this one happen? Did this one's
stray zombies? The other ones that were about to hit
has like a disease that just wipes people out, but
this one had. This was the only one that I
think I read with zombies.

Speaker 1 (31:03):
Yes, I believe so, But I loved it. And it's
funny because at the end, her husband has kind of
an afterward and he talks about difficulty of like being
with someone and writing with them and working with them
and how they worked it out through this, and so
it's interesting to read it knowing kind of right that

(31:25):
this was their first time doing it, but I mean,
it was so creepy. And then when Kendrick finds out
the truth about about how his grandpa shot his parents
because he didn't know that at first, right, No, that
was a really emot.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
Yeah conversation that they were still there. Yeah, but they
might be still there, Like it was an odd like
it was weird as Grandpa was like Grandpa Jay was
so serious and like down to earth. You need to
grow up, you need to do these things, you need
to do these things. But he still was trying to
protect him as a child, like giving him, like promising
him a coke, which he shouldn't have tried, Like he

(32:05):
should have immediately realized something was wrong, but like all
these things because he needed to fulfill something that would
make Kendrick happy. There are so many things so that,
and had Kendrick stayed with the dog woman, maybe he
would have maybe he would have figured out quicker, but
like he was so like focused on both the child
and this, or maybe he wouldn't have and he would

(32:27):
have just died there and Kendrick wouldn't have never known
what happened, but he would have been safe.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
Yeah, Okay, we're jumping into the second apocalyptic one or

(32:53):
the third one, I guess really, and it's removal, order.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
This this and got my gut to gome. Do we
need words? You're making me angry now that I'm thinking
about it. As good as these stories are. So we
have the seventy two. Our flu has brought havoc among
the population, and we meet Naima Nama, who is currently
taking care of her cancer ridden grandmother, who essentially is

(33:18):
just living on pay meds. She decides to move her
and her grandmother to her neighbor's house, who has already
fled to go to the high desert away from the
fires close by, which was caused by people in order
to eradicate the seventy too our flu. Her grandmother's home
is covered in fleas due to all the animals in

(33:39):
the house, including two of her grandma's beloved cat and
Tango being the one that she loved the most. But
they she like let them out because she was like,
we can't feed you and you don't want to be
in here anyway, but the house is covered in fleas,
and because there's no way to get him out, name
is like, we're gonna move. So after a painful move
like that whole h envisioning that move because our grandmother

(34:03):
has in so much pain from bed sores, from cancer
for all the things. And as as she is moving
to the other area, the cop arrives and letting her
know that she would have to leave in forty eight hours.
So everybody's being told leave because they're essentially gonna sends

(34:23):
a place on fire. Yeah, and it didn't matter who
was there, They're gonna you're gonna get caught in that fire.
As he advised her to go no matter what. He
leaves some frozen chicken with her that they had found,
letting her know again that she has to leave. But
you know, here's this. You can cook this for today
and cook me some too, essentially like while you're here.

(34:45):
It's the first time she had meat in quite some
time or anything like that, because I think she's been
living off of like insure and whatever food she could find.
She says he'll be back the following day to eat some,
and she gets it ready for him, like the whole
like food scenes like this during this time, get me.
I'm like, I'm gonna need I'm gonna need chicken now.

(35:08):
The next day he comes back and after she's already
eating some, but like she shares it with him, and
they're eating and he's talking to her. He talks about
she needs to go. He say. He seems stand offish
but nice, so she's kind of dealing with it. Soon
he's like, I need to go inside, and she's like, okay,
go in there, And the next thing she hears is
a gunshot and he comes back out and she figures

(35:32):
out what's happening and she and then as he leaves,
he tells her to go to Santa Cruz, which is
where his family is, gives her like card information and
just walks away and tells her to leave and tells
her to not take anything, just take what's in the
car and go. Grieving and in pain, not looking at
her grandmother but covering her up. An Naema loads the car,

(35:54):
Tango comes out of nowhere. She puts Tango in the car,
and then Tango's like, no, let me out. She's like okay,
So like that happens, and she sets off with her supplies.
I honestly I will say this, and just to add this,
like this weekend we had an issue with my neighbor's

(36:17):
dog and like talking about him suffering and all these things.
So this one felt like, I know, humans and dogs different,
but still like just having kind of some experience of
like loss and grief and doing what's best. That was painful,
Like I was like, oh, the suffering, But at the
same time, that's so it feels inhumane as well. During
apocalypse and then going back to the back and forth

(36:38):
and band like but what do you do in this situation? Yeah,
and like it feels so cold and cruel, but at
the same time, like wood name had stayed and been
set on fire, but to sacrifice to be with her grandma.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a that's a tough like because
you want to be so angry at the cop because
he took the choice from her right, but at the
same time he kind of spared her from having to
make the choice. It's complicated. Yeah, well, okay, do said

(37:19):
about this. The caretaking imagery in the story comes from
the experience of watching my late mother, Patricia Stevens do
stefphat the effects of bed source late in her life.
The horror of losing a loved one feels as terrible
as watching the world fall apart, which we've talked about
a lot. Is a big part of horror.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
And it makes you want to cry.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah. Yeah, Well, the interesting thing about this one was,
you know, you hear about the seventy two hour flu.
You don't know too much about it, but you know
it's bad because they are setting whole things. The whole
place is on fire, and I didn't know it was

(38:06):
going to continue into multiple stories.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah yeah, I don't think we know about that until
the end the last one and they're like, oh, She's like,
this is a trilogy. I was like, oh, yeah, okay,
it's good to know because we do find because I
was like, does she keep using the same name just.

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Because yeah, I was confused at first, Teo, but I
was like, no, this seems the same.

Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well there's some like Nima was previously, and I was
like that sounds familiar. And the way that Graceland and
the like mccormicks keep coming into.

Speaker 1 (38:39):
Play, it like that right.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
No. So, speaking of which, yes, we're jumping into the
part two with Naima and it's called herd Immunity. So
Naama's back once again, but this time she is traveling.
I think she's been in California, but she is traveling
again in California on foot. We don't know what has happened.
She's got some uh, primate feed is what it's called.

(39:02):
So I'm assuming like animal food, like pet food. I
don't know. Maybe I don't know if there was like
testing on monkeys, that might be an implication, which is
really sad and gross, but you know that happens, so
we don't know. But she found that and that's what
she's using eating to survive. And she's had a little
bit of water, but there she's gonna need to find things.
So she is traveling through she spots a man ahead

(39:23):
of her with a guitar and decides to follow him
because she's like the first person she's seen he's here, Like, again,
this one doesn't really have zombies. I thought maybe they
had zombies. Yeah, but I don't like because I thought
maybe he was one. No, but we have looters and
of course all of that. But she is prepped with
her gun. But she sees him and she tries to

(39:45):
talk to him, but she slowly starts following him. She's like,
he seems like good stock, and she's imagining herself with him,
Like there's this level of like desperation and saving the
world like through her and this man. And she's like,
he plays guitar good enough. So after following him around,

(40:05):
finding his trail of candy wrappers he leaves behind twizzlers,
finds out that he's a Red Vines dude, which is
dumb Twizzlers all the way. Yes, I'm just kidding. They
soon meet up at the County Line Road Fair or
Rescue Center as it's turned into, and she yells out
to him, She's like, hey, what's up all these things?

(40:26):
And they start having conversations, and there they talk and
she tries to convince him they are immune, and he
has his mask on and like all this protection on,
and she's like, dude, you're not alive because you're so
good at protecting yourself. We are immune. And she's trying
to talk to them and being like, hey, we need
to stick together. We're alive, we're immune. We can help population,

(40:48):
you know, we need to help each other. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
you stay there. You can stay there for the night,
but we're not together. I'm here for a reason. I
got my gun. You stay over there. You could take
whatever you want, just leave my guitar, like all these
things in order to be like you say, are there.
So they argue back and forth. Then he was like
are you Murray Curry, like who are you? Like all

(41:09):
these things? How do you know for sure? How have
you tested it? Do you have a theory? All these things?
And she's like, no, come on, man, you're alive. He's like,
you're alive. It's almost been a here. It's like, is
that long enough? And she's like, well, it's wiped out
with a lot of people, so it seems like it.
They argue and the man is saying he has to
completely believe her and just tells her to stay your distance.

(41:30):
She goes on to discover what's around them and look
at the rescue center, finding anything she could, including finding
a running car with a full take of gas. She
finds food and water and stocks up her Petee Cruiser,
her purple Petea Cruiser.

Speaker 1 (41:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
She also finds the center where dark liquid still remains,
wondering what it is, but then she sees rows of
shoes from families neatly placed, and then finds the closed
barn with the smell of death. That's how she puts it,
and there she's like, you know, I'm gonna take these shoes,
thank you for that, Like trying to pay homage, but

(42:07):
also understanding the darkness here. She returns talking to the man,
who finally introduces himself as Kyle, still persisting she stays away,
but they could hang out from afar and she can
move on. The next day, when he falls asleep, she
sneaks over, stares at him, and kisses him because I
was like, what the hell girl? No. The next day,

(42:33):
Kyle is sick and vomiting as she realizes what has happened.
And she's like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Of course he can't hear her because he's in so
much pain and sickness. Naama apologizes, gets in the car
and leaves. YEP. I was like, oh no, due wrote

(42:55):
I decided to imagine what the end of the world
would feel like to one character. My answer isolation, So
like Nayma's desperation and trying to find someone really thinking
she has understood this disease and really understood it, and
it truly was. This man was careful and yeah, one
fell swoop. She killed him.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, because he was like he had gloves, he had
like he was saying, no, I literally have not come
in contact with anything.

Speaker 2 (43:24):
He's like, not even glass.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
Nope. Yeah, but she did not buy it and kissed
him arrogance and yes forcibly kissing him because she wanted
to prove to him you're immune. She was like, I'm
going to tell him I kissed you and you're fine.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
And her desperation, Yeah, and this like her desperation to
find someone else, to find some companionship, to be like
away from this isolation and find someone who could help
start the world anew Essentially that she really thought this
would be the solve and it wasn't. No, that was

(44:06):
arow while it was at all like, well, the head
end of the story is awful.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
Yeah, and she kept I mean, ultimately she was right,
but she kept trying to like yell at him as
she was falling behind him, like that's not a rescue center,
Like they don't do that there.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Right, that doesn't work.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
But he just wanted to go because he had these
memories and he was he was kind of in the
like this might be the last. Let me have these
good memories.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
And if all those supplies are there, it would it'd
have been a good place for him to hold up.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
That was a rough one. I feel like everyone we're like,
oh that one, Oh why why? Oh?

Speaker 2 (44:46):
So we're moving on to the third one, which is
Carriers And yeah, the story again is with Naima, but
it takes place in twenty fifty five. At this point,
Nayama is Jaden and has been through some things. She
was isolating herself to what she called Naima land, which
is like hundreds of acres of dead farmland that she

(45:07):
was like, I'll take it here, stay away from me,
to all humanity, and she lived there with her two
pet cats, one of them being named Tango, and her
chickens where she got her eggs, and like some of
her freshed chicken except the giant cats, feral cats came
to kill one of her priz Sunday chickens, damn Cat.

(45:29):
She had been there for some time after being released
from captivity by the government who had been experimenting with
on her and other carriers as they were called, or
those who survived with no symptoms, like they obviously carried
the disease but had no symptoms and are healthy. They
were used for treatment and vaccines from their antibodies and

(45:50):
their bloods. They were tortured essentially, and after a release
they were allotted land as repayment, and some of those
carriers actually created community together. It was she was saying
that she and we're about to talk about Raoul were
the youngest in these encampments, and so they knew they
kind of like grew up together essentially. But Naima did

(46:11):
not go to be a part of these communities. She
just wanted to speaks far away from everyone. Her one
of friend and that in quotes, this is Raoul who
was a bit younger than her. She came. He came
to give her her share of supplies and water the
credits that she earned, and it was then that Raoul

(46:32):
told her that they had a child. That she had
a child, and with him, she and Raoul were forced
to reproduce through most though most of the specimens did
not survive. He told her that there had been one
that survived, and it was a young girl, not even
with a name. She had just given a number and
she'd been raised there uh and the marshals as they

(46:54):
were called had made an agreement with him that if
he and nam Naima could take this child and she
could live with them if they agreed to terms, and
we don't know quite what those terms are, but they
just had to agree together and consent. But Naima didn't
believe him and thought this was only a trick by
the government because she's been tricks several times and they've

(47:16):
come to her hand and taken her and robbed her
essentially a lot. And she told him if he came
with the marshals that she would shoot them rightly. So
later that day, Naima was forced to go to the
schools to talk about her experience, and there the reality
kind of hit home that she may have a child
that's aged or that's around the same age as some
of these children, and it kind of overwhelmed her. But

(47:40):
with this thought, she waited up all night for what
she assumed was a trap by the marshals. But the
following day she was visited by Raoul and two smiling
unprotected they didn't wear any protection marshals, and with them
four year old young brunette girl came up on the

(48:01):
porch and to her surprise, the little girl had Graham's
nose and plump, cheerful cheeks, and she knew and she
opened the door.

Speaker 1 (48:11):
Yop, it felt like.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
A happy ending.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
Kind of okay, yeah, her and so this is the
end of the trilogy, and it's sort of like it
began with her grandmother dying and ends with this young
girl who has some of her grandmother's features. Again, no,

(48:36):
she leaves so much open to the imagination. Hopefully it
was only it was a happy ending. Here's what Tu
said about it about this trilogy in particular, each story
in its own way is about seeking or trying to
hold onto family. Naima has resigned herself to be without
human contact or human experience as a mother. After all
she had been through. I wanted her to experience the

(48:58):
kind of change we see unfolding daily, even in the
face of fear and pain that has lasted for generations. Yeah. Yeah,
because it's so fascinating to see this play out as
the trilogy of like where it goes h because it
changes so drastically. She changes so drastically. Oh oh my goodness.

(49:24):
And that part where she was talking to the kids,
and you know, she has like these rules where she
can't say like negative things about.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
She can't say why she lost her teeth, which she
had been beaten and raped. My marshall, she pushed back. Yeah,
but that's how she earns her credits, to be an
experiment and on display.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yep, and to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
And we go come upon a few more. It's kind
of a standalone as well, so but it's a little
more themed. And this the next one is Signora Suerte
and we meet Giebreto, who is a resident of a
nursing home. After he suffered a few strokes here, he
watched the people around him and he hated this place.
This place is awful. One thing he did enjoy was

(50:20):
going to bingo, but not necessarily to play or to
even watch the bingo happen, but to watch for a
certain someone. So there he spots his angel, who he
says he can see beyond human form. One he can
he can only see one that is disguise as a
nurse named Rosaria. He witnesses her touching a fellow resident, Pedro,

(50:43):
seemingly healing his cough who's been coughing throughout and having
hard time breathing, and giving him luck to win some
bingo games. And that night, Pedro dies peacefully in his sleep.
So we just know that this and to him, this
is something he wants. He desperately wants this. He that
definitely wants this luck because he is mala stde is

(51:04):
what he says, well, bad luck. He is drenched in it.
And that Rosario arrives again to another bingo game, and
this time she chooses Stella, another resident, one who is
hard of hearing, but one who ends up winning a
couple of rounds of bingo as well, and she can
hear better towards like so you can actually hear the
numbers this time. That night, as Gabeto expected, Stella dies

(51:28):
in her sleep. And no one really suspects anything because
she was older, so they're like, yeah, maybe. He goes
back and forth of maybe, like thinking he like Rosaria
is actually killing them, don't know or unplugging machines. Who knows.
He doesn't see her at any point in time other
than bingo Rosaria. At the end of the story, Gilberto

(51:49):
has decided to participate in a round of bingo, and
as Rosario walks in, he's silently begging as she is
staring at him, bless me, save me, choose me. End
the story, and and the do rights. This was the
prompt for the story what if the unluckiest man met

(52:12):
Lady Luck? And what does luck mean in a nursing home.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
That's a good prompt. That is a good problem.

Speaker 2 (52:24):
I'm gonna write a story about this after we're done.

Speaker 1 (52:27):
My fan fiction. Oh be so mad. They're so mad
at me already, Like you're writing too much, update your
other stories.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Don't you love when people think they have ownership of
something they just enjoy?

Speaker 1 (52:39):
All right?

Speaker 2 (52:40):
So the last story we have is Vanishing and we
meet Nidra whose husband has vanished and even after almost
a year, he is nowhere to be found. Everybody presumed
him dead, except for Nidra. Nedra swears he ran away,
ran away because their youngest daughter, Asia was sick. People
stared and made fun of Asia, saying she looked like

(53:00):
a ghost due to her illness. People have been trying
to help, even a coworker of Carl's who is the husband,
who is trying to make sure Nidra gets the insurance
payout that Carl had bought. So with this, She's like, oh,
you planned this, you know where he is? Where is he?
And the little coworker's like, no, we just want you
to be taken care of. She goes to visit. Niedra

(53:24):
ghest to visit where Carl had disappeared, wondering what happened,
And this is the one that happened in Atlanta off
n so I was like, I wonder if I know
where this is. A year later, again, this is the
same year later, Nidra has started something with her oldest
daughter's geometry teacher named Devin. The oldest Charlene does not
like the situation, and there had been many fights between

(53:46):
her her and Nidra, but including the fact that Nidra
cannot admit that Carl might be dead, and carl is gone,
but Charlene loves her sister and has been there to
help take care of her age. We find Devon coming
over this night to have mac and cheese with the family.
Charlene seems to relent a little bit, although she makes

(54:09):
sure she knows this is her territory and you're the
she said, my nemesis. But he seems to be very
kind and very open with the girls, and like ant
Ninra and wanting to make sure that they're okay and safe.
After dinner, Devin leaves, but Charlene helps Asia get a bath.

(54:32):
She obviously really takes care of Asia like the second mother.
As they get ready for bed, Ninitra notices how sick
Asia looks.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
She writes.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
A splash echoed behind Nidra from the bathtub. SuDS parted
at the foot of the pub as Asia sat up,
a watery shadow against bathwater, the color of the ocean.
The bubbles cling to Asia's hair and face framed her features.
Nitra couldn't believe how pale Asia was since her life
bath her bare skin was nearly invisible. So this is

(55:04):
all in realization that she hadn't been aware of how
sick Asia really was until she saw her in this
form and talks about her slowly vanishing.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yes, yep, and this is the last one. Here's what
du said about it. Throughout my writing career, I have
sought ways to convey the feelings and images of death
and dying as my own coping mechanism. This story, first
written in the wake of my mother's death in twenty twelve,
has never before been published. I am still trying to
understand how our loved ones can simply disappear.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
This hits too hard because there are too many times
because again when you especially maybe when you're not around
them constantly, and so when they die, it might not
feel real and you come back to see them in
that same place that they're just not there, and that
level of like trying to figure that out and what

(56:03):
to do with that emptiness like they're just gone. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:09):
Yeah, And I you know, my dad was sick. I
didn't see him all that often, and when I would,
he like shrink, you know, like he was vanishing, like disappearing,
And it is bizarre. It's hard to square with, well,

(56:32):
where did they go?

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yeah? And how do you deal with that? Yeah? How
do you deal with that?

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Once again, grief, grief, and horror, Oh my goodness. And
I would also say one of the main themes in
a lot of these stories is parentification, and this story,
I was thinking about that one a lot.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
Well. The fact that she, like Charlene, tells Nidra towards
the beginning that she's the queen of denial.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
Yeah yeah ooff. Well, clearly there's so much to talk
about with these and they were they were all really powerful. Obviously.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
When I say haunting like lingering, when I have stories
that linger, Yeah, I can't read stories like this often
because they linger into too long.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
Yeah. Oh, I'm going to be thinking out some of
these for a long time.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
But obviously that's the mark of a good writer. And yeah,
an amazing writer.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
Oh yes, And I, like I said in the part one,
I love how she just showcased all those genres. All
these genres hard can be, it can look all kinds
of ways. Oh my gosh, I can't wait to read
more from her. But yes, listeners, please let us know
if you have any thoughts about any of these, any

(57:56):
other recommendations for books or anything else. Yes, please let
us know. You can email us at Hello at stuffwenevertold
you dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky
at mom Stuff Podcast. We're on Instagram and TikTok at
stuff One Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We
have a tea public story, and we have a book
you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks as
always to our super producer Christine or executive producer and

(58:17):
a contruter Joey. Thank you and thanks to you for listening.
Stuff Will Never Told You is production of I Heart Radio.
For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check
out the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts, or if you
listen to your favorite shows